The Fog of Menopause

eggs

Strange things happen to women at the onset of menopause. Most mature men who’ve experienced it firsthand can attest to the obvious symptoms: Hot flashes, loss of libido, vaginal dryness, mood swings and irritability, but do have a quick look at the list I’ve linked here to get a better understanding of just how nature eventually punishes women as the last of their eggs decay to a fine powdery dust.

Change in body odor, brittle nails, incontinence, weight gain, irregular heartbeat, depression, anxiety, panic disorder, fatigue, allergies, osteoporosis – these late life symptoms are hardly something most men give any consideration for when they’re contemplating a lifetime of marriage with a woman.

Most of the manosphere will tell you marriage is simply never worth the financial risk, or that a woman always has the option to detonate the marriage and take the kids at a moments notice, but how often do you read a Red Pill guy tell you about how the hot piece of ass who became your long term ONEitis will eventually experience some (possibly all) of the 34 Symptoms of Menopause roughly 20-25 years after you say ‘I do’ (assuming it lasts so long)?

Those symptoms, in varying combinations, make for some very disconcerting prospects for a guy who’s been a keen supplicant supportive Beta for the entirety of his marriage, believing that the privilege of being married means he’s getting his wife’s sexual best when it matters most. It kind of puts things into a lifetime perspective when you consider that Mr. Dependability (Beta Bucks) gets to accommodate the symptoms of menopause while Bad Boys enjoyed her sexual best before he arrived on the set.

Add to this that at least 66-70% of (at least western) women will become overweight and/or morbidly obese during their lives and it doesn’t bode well for the enduring SMV that most unassuming men are banking on for a long term marriage with the 28-30 year old dream girl who’s now suddenly gotten right with herself enough to want to get married.

Side note: it’s interesting how closely female-male bone density decay comparison charts mirrors my SMV graph.

Nature Abhors a Vacuum Barren Womb

There’s some very brutal evolutionary truth behind the biological realities of menopause.

Anyone familiar with The Red Queen by Matt Ridley or The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins will get the gist of menopause’s intrinsic message – survival-side evolution essentially gives up on women once they reach a point where they are no longer reproductively viable.

Hormone imbalances, immunodeficiency, nutritional, vitamin and mineral (most notably calcium) deficiencies, neurological disorders triggered by plummeting estrogen levels, and many more physical debilitations make it obvious that a woman who’s reached the age when she ceases to be a reproductive asset becomes a species-collective liability. Unless she has some honored status or useful, learned wisdom to pass on, she becomes dead weight to a human tribe’s interests in survival efficiency and propagation.

While it’s a testament to our success as a social species that we’ve achieved a capacity to prolong our lives, there are certain glaring evidences of how our physiology evolved for efficiency within set frames of time during a (previously average) lifespan. The physical changes that come with the onset of menopause and the constancy of presenting the appearance of youth and vigor for women is one such example, post-menopausal hormone therapy another.

So too is the convenient timing of the myth of the biological clock and the social conventions structured around it to provide a woman with the maximum amount of time to sort out her hypergamous options. It’s no coincidence that women’s Epiphany Phase is concurrent with the latter stages of her fertility window (27-32 y.o.)  – the social conventions of the Feminine Imperative are nothing if not efficient at maximizing women’s sexual strategy potential.

At every occasion, in every form of media, a rapidly westernizing, feminine-primary social order seeks to reshape and deemphasize the physical realities women of previous eras had the benefit of a socialized understanding (if not a collective wisdom) to accept and prepare for. In an age of hormone therapy, sperm banks and ovum freezing as part of a company benefits program, the latent message to women is that they need not concern themselves with these previously life-fulfillment limiting physical realities to coincide with their personal choices.

The Feminine Imperative will go to great lengths, socially and legally, to convince contemporary women that they aren’t in fact tied to the realities of their physical conditions. In a social sense, the incentive is the same “have it all” mentality with the prerequisite social conventions in place to lessen the blow when women realize they can’t actually realize what the feminine-primary advertising suggested.

In a physical sense the Feminine Imperative will gratuitously incentivize funding for every feminine-specific medical condition while simultaneously deemphasizing (to the point of encouraging indifference) any male-specific disease, legally, financially and socially. It’s a testament to the efforts of the imperative that modern women statistically outlive men in spite of the physical debilitations associated with menopause.

But for all this effort in engineering generations of women to become über-women, the same pesky, evolved limitations still influence their decision making.

Echoes of The Wall

New commenter (and I use the term loosely), unilantern, graciously provides us with some insight on this with her comments on The Wall:

This is a myth, i can tell you how i know. Any man would pass up a 20 year old in shape woman who is strong and athletic for a 30 something feminine type in a dress who is willing to submit.

Its the same reason men pass up pretty young women from a lower social class bracket in favour of more mature well spoken mutton.

So keep up with the clock ticking nonsense, and remember time waits for no man.

I will let you know how i used to think for most of my 20s! And how i think now.

I used to think, do i have to wait until im too old and tied to feel like going about the world to be able to do so without sexual harassment, do i have to be nearing the menopause to no longer be seen as here for reproductive meat.

Then at age 30, and now at age 33 i look back at all the years of youth and energy and wish i could have had the type of conditional freedom i have now then. Women have to be too old to have the energy to do anything before they get their body for themselves and by the time it comes its not worth having, having to compete with men for your own body is the real reality of women, and yes time is ticking.

I bet i will be there at 40 with unconditional freedom, as in no harassment no matter what i wear or do!

Tick tok!

I found unilantern’s (perhaps drunken) comment’s particularly ironic in light of all the attention generated by various staged and / or edited viral videos recently of women being cat-called while walking for longer than most women’s work day in, shall we say, less than reputable neighborhoods. Despite an obvious effort in preserving the necessary female-victimization trope, a certain demographic of post-menopausal women suffering from confirmation bias (and probably some post-menopausal neuroses) genuinely want to believe these pseudo-documentaries at face value – even after they’ve been falsified and confirmed as such.

Ironic, because unilantern’s rationalizations and denial of The Wall are rooted precisely in the designed social conventions the Feminine Imperative would have both sexes agree upon. There’s never really a Wall per se when women are convinced they can ‘have it all’ socially, physically and psychologically. And again, the latent purpose of this social convention is to convince women (and to evoke agreement among men) that they are exempt from the physical realities that confine them at various phases of their maturation.

SMV in Girl-World

Women want to be men. This is the legacy that a since-decayed feminist social impetus has imparted to the generations of both men and women who’ve come after the Gloria Steinem’s got married themselves and blew away. Women need to be the men of tomorrow. I suppose I should’ve seen this messaging long before, and in honesty I think the greater part of Matrix thinking revolves around role reversal, but this is more than reversal. Women want to be men.

If a man can wait until his maturation develops, his achievements are more actualized and his SMV peaks at 38-40, equalism says “why shouldn’t you Man-Girl?”

As I work my way through the second draft of my next book, I’m beginning to see and build upon the real-world physical underpinnings women are subject to which motivate both the social buffers and the reasoning for their moving into the various mental phases of maturity I outline in the Preventative Medicine series of posts.

At an earlier phase, women claim to deplore their sexual objectification while young and subjected to the lascivious attentions of the mythical Male Gaze. This is recently decried by the cat-call videos I mentioned above, but yet before these videos were ever contrived, older women, women in a later phase of maturity, had already decried how horrible it is to be “invisible to men” and how they yearn to hold male attention as they once did in their youth:

Women feel invisible to the opposite sex at the age of 51, it emerged yesterday.

A detailed study of 2,000 women revealed a large percentage felt they no longer received the level of attention they once did after hitting 51.

Many even went as far as to admit they felt ‘ignored’.

The women claimed their confidence plummeted after hitting 50 and blamed greying hair, having to to wear glasses or even struggling to find fashionable clothes.

The lifestyle study, commissioned by herbal remedies company, A.Vogel, also found more than two thirds of women over 45 had walked into a room and felt ‘completely unnoticed’ by the opposite sex.

And this is yet again another conflict between what the social conventions of the Feminine Imperative has taught women and the physical realities of the conditions they wishfully hope they can be exempted from. When a man makes women aware of The Wall, intentional or innocently, the response is usually one of “Well, you men get fat and old and insecure later in life too”, and that may very well be for the majority of men. However, the differences is men don’t have a life-time of social infrastructure to convince and disappoint themselves that they can ever be exempt from a lack of performance.

No social order has ever sold men the idea that they can simply ‘have‘ it all.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Heywood Jablome
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The impending tsunami of hamster droppings in the comments here should be entertaining.

Bluepillprofessor
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A little bit hard on grandma aren’t we Rollo? I have known several honored, wise, contributing older women who were getting plowed hard well into their 80’s and who continued to contribute to the family after their husbands died. HRT takes care of many of the problems of menopause. Women may be poorly designed but men are designed even worse. Women outlive men by 8 years. @ Rollo: “Side note: it’s interesting how closely female-male bone density decay comparison charts mirrors my SMV graph.” There must be some studies on attraction that confirms your SMV chart. Social Psychology studies commonly… Read more »

Badpainter
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Bluepillprofessor – “Women may be poorly designed but men are designed even worse. Women outlive men by 8 years.”

Does that factoid adjust for murder, suicide, war, and high risk physically demanding professions? If not than it’s a spurious as the mythical wage gap.

boomerick
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boomerick
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BPP—-NAWALT……..YGTBFSM

over.and.out.

BC
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BC
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Peak fertility… is peak attractiveness… is peak fertility… rinse… repeat…

funoldguy
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funoldguy
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Men have a much better time of it than women. For one thing, they marry later; for another thing, they die earlier.
thanks H.L. Menchen
need I say more?
funoldguy

The Celtic Predator
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The reason why men tend to die earlier is also evolutionary heavily tied to our sex-specific biochemistry. Testosterone is horrible for long time survival (i.e. long-lived, 80+ year lifespans), but it’s great for competing and nabbing mates while we’re 17-30, which is why men are so full of it wink (literally). In the bush, it doesn’t really matter how long you live so long as, while you’re alive, you’re a testosterone-fueled mating machine that makes those babies. It’s not the longevity, it’s the efficiency.

Natural selection does not necessarily equal differential survival — it equals differential REPRODUCTION grin

Gurney Halleck
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It’s actually a bit unusual that the human female becomes infertile when she does. That could be a result of our evolution as a social species — at some point it becomes more useful for the tribe that women contribute socially (by caring for their children, grand-children, transmitting culture to later generations, and so on) than that she continues to plop out kids. The causes and purpose of The Wall/menopause are interesting questions.

Max from Australia
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Max from Australia
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1) Menopause is god telling you to get a younger wife

2) “Well, you men get fat and old and insecure later in life too”

Hey im 43 and just lost 20 KG in body fat and am still at my same bench press wieght from when I was 24 ((legs (squats lunges) are only 60% though))

Badpainter
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Rollo – “Women want to be men.”

Cargo cult masculinity founded on Apex fallacy. In this sense women are like children wishing to be adults because they only see the benefits and are shielded from the costs.

donalgraeme
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Rollo, I’m curious why you think women have built up this support network of self-deception about their biological reality. As you point out, men really don’t have this kind of system in place. Further, it isn’t likely that they have ever had one, either. So why do women? Is it a fear based mechanism? Or is something else at work?

Mark Minter
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Simon Shepard refers to something called Proclamation of Escalation and Inverse Proclamation of Escalation. Both are the calling out that they have received attention from men. It is inherent to women. The are signalling their sexual status and value in drawing attention that they have been approached. The Inverse Proclamation is a show of displeasure. Either it is a way of stating “look men want me” and to visibly show displeasure at a particular man or type of men is a way of positioning herself as “better”. He states it all is part and parcel of inducing neurosis in men.… Read more »

Mark Minter
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Wait, I got a fitting joke. A 60 year old guy is out fishing in a boat on a pond. He hears a small wee voice say “Hey, over here.” He looks down and there is a small frog on a Lilly pad. He reaches down and picks it up and brings it close to his face so he can look at it. It says, “I was a sexy young princess but a jealous witch turned me into a frog because her man was attracted to me. If you kiss me then I will turn back into a sexy young… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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However, the differences is men don’t have a life-time of social infrastructure to convince and disappoint themselves that they can ever be exempt from a lack of performance.

No social order has ever sold men the idea that they can simply ‘have‘ it all.
(Oh how can i relate to this…)

Zelcorpion
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The age gap between men and women is almost as mythical as the wage gap. There were studies done on European monks and they found that under very similar conditions both nuns and monks lived to be a very similar age. The gap was marginal and around 2-5 years, as some monks smoked & drank more alcohol than the nuns. In some monasteries, where monks adhered to a more healthy lifestyle, the difference in longevity was zero. I was always curious why not more studies have been done on that subject and not more people knew about it in the… Read more »

M Simon
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We do have a drug that can extend useful life. You do that by reducing chronic inflammations. That means reducing cytokines. http://www.whale.to/a/human5.html The drug is reportedly better than Viagra for erections. It is non-toxic because it is an analog of chemicals found in the body. It is illegal. =============== BTW the first mate has supposedly lost her attractiveness. And yet I’m still attracted to her. Must be the Ds. She is well past menopause but still gets wet. Sometimes just from my presence. On difficult days a little saliva gets things started. Five or ten minutes of stimulation is all… Read more »

Mr T.
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Mr T.
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Ah, Man-appose.
If you were married to her for 25 year and she was a great wife, be good to her, she’s gonna need all the tenderness.

If she was an entitled C$$t, ABANDON SHIP.

Pre Man-appose it use to be I have a headache, through and after Man-appose she feels unsexy or she blames you.

Ps,
You’re gonna need a life time supply of DW40.(that’s in case you you don’t Abandon ship and no life jacket and don’t know how to swim.

M Simon
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M Simon
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I probably should add that I’m teaching the first mate Red Pill. After a difficult two weeks recently she has made another advance.

M Simon
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M Simon
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Ah. The tyranny of desire. I come from a long line (going back at least 4 generations that I know of) of men who sired children relatively late in life. My great grandfather had 4 wives. The first three having died on him. I’m the result of wife #4.

The main disadvantage of that was an incredible sex drive when I was young. Very distracting. But the ladies liked it (mostly).

superslaviswife
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You’re being too easy on post-menopausal women. Sure, when we age we’ll never be quite as hot as in our youth. But if we’re 55 and our husband’s 60-80 (appropriate pairing age-range, as evidenced by most couples in tribal situations), he’s probably on his was out too. Just as a man at 75 can look OK if he lifts, eats well, didn’t abuse his body in his youth and considers a testosterone supplement, a woman at 60, once the last big shifts of the menopause have occurred, can look OK if she lifts, jogs, eats well and didn’t abuse her… Read more »

superslaviswife
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PS: “Pulling a babba-yaga” is the post-menopausal equivalent to post-marital degradation. Every woman has a point when, in her mind, she will feel OK about letting herself go. In order: -Once I have a man. -Once I’m married. -Once I’ve had a baby. -Once I’ve had all the children I want. -Once I hit the menopause. -Once I’m a wrinkle-bag. When you’re 70+ you’ll view women who “pull a babba-yaga” almost as poorly as you now view women who let themselves go after marriage. When all your friends who married successfully are finally surrendering to old-age-low-libido and pudgy, matronly wives… Read more »

Terrance Gold
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Imagine being a man and discovering the red pill when you are 50 and in a new-ish LTR with a woman who is the same age. She’s hitting menopause, bi, says she loves you but wants to open the relationship because she’s not feeling it from you. You’re attracted to younger women but eating shit tests galore from your LTR. 50 years old. Declining SMV for both of you but still very good relative to others your age. Live sucks.

asylum1968
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If I recall correctly, there has been a lot of “hub-bub” about women achieving “total unhappiness in their lives” at around 41-44 years-old according to trends in the annual General Wellness Survey conducted by the US government. The decline has been marked since the late 1960’s/early 1970’s.

you go grrrrrllll….right to the psychologists’ chair (y).

jf12
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re: “No social order has ever sold men the idea that they can simply ‘have‘ it all.”

Women will splutter “True Men” aka apex alphas “already do have it all.”

jf12
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@superslaviswife re: “There’s no actual reason to pull a babba-yaga on a man”

There is NEVER any actual reason for a woman to let herself go, EXCEPT to communicate to her LTR dude that she wants him to quite pestering her for sex so much. It’s the same reason for the post-honeymoon sour attitude of the woman; it’s merely magnified in post-menopausal women.

jf12
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@The Celtic Predator re: “Testosterone is horrible for long time survival ”

Not true, actually.

jf12
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1. There is no male equivalent to menopause.
2. There is SIMILARLY also no male equivalent to the menstrual cycle.
3. There is no male equivalent to the honeymoon period.
4. There is no male equivalent to the fertility decline after the woman’s early 30s.
5. Male testosterone levels above about 450 ng/mL do not affect anything behaviorly at all. No excess anger. No excess desire. Men who have more sex produce more testosterone. It is false that men who have more testosterone produce more sex.

chris
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“No social order has ever sold men the idea that they can simply ‘have‘ it all.”

Why not?

zdr01dz
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Ratio of attractive to unattractive women in a given age group.

Age 20: 1 in 5
Age 30: 1 in 10
Age 40: 1 in 100
Age 50: 1 in 1,000
Age 60: 1 in 10,000
Age 70: NA

infinitek19@hotmail.com
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Rollo,

When is the next book coming out? I read the first one, glad I did it changed the way I view inter gender relations for the better! Thanks for all your hard work on this life changing subject.

-Kevin
Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile

Glenn
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More great stuff, thanks Rollo. Last first. “Having it all” – It’s 1994 and I’m at the annual “Women’s Bond Club of New York City” annual “Women of the Year Gala” in which they select a particular woman for hagiography and fawning. My Marxist boss (at a software company that sold derivatives trading platforms to places like AIG – yes, I sold AIG their risk management system too, if anyone wants to know how they blew up the world I’ll be glad to explain it) has bought a table for 5k and we have some customers as guests. The “winner”… Read more »

zdr01dz
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From the female perspective ratio of desirable to undesirable men in a given age group,

Age 20: 1 in 10
Age 30: 1 in 10
Age 40: 1 in 10
Age 50: 1 in 10
Age 60: 1 in 10
Age 70: 1 in 10

kfg
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” . . .mineral (most notably calcium) deficiencies . . .” This claim is made on the basis of osteoporosis, that loss of bone density is due to lack of calcium. However, as I have commented before, bones are not made of calcium. They are made of protein. I offer again that you compare a fresh, uncooked chicken bone to a clam shell. The clam shell is made of calcium. Calcium is added to the protein of bones as a way of giving them enough stiffness to do their job. Whan bone density drops, due to lack of protein, the… Read more »

Glenn
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Had to add this. Madonna did a topless photo shoot at age 56. Even with the overtly sexualized posing and outfits, and the retouching and the fact that she is in very good physical conditions she still looks like a corpse. Lol. She’s about as vital as a fleshlight without batteries…

http://www.interviewmagazine.com/music/madonna-1

theasdgamer
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“The Selfish Gene” is viewed as 5h1t by evolutionary biologists. You don’t need to rely on evolutionary explanations for support. Your observations stand alone just fine. Relying on weak explanations weakens your entire point.

theasdgamer
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I can tell you that post-menopausal vaj dryness isn’t necessarily an issue. Specially if the woman sees the man as hot enuf.

kfg
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@Chris: “Why not?”

Because men learn, by experience and at a very early age, that what they can have is what they can take, and thus the natural limits of what can be taken.

Conversely, women learn that what they can have is what they are given, and that there are no effective limits on what they can be given.

This difference means that women can easily believe the lie, but men cannot.

Tam the Bam
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” .. I think it is one of the best things about being my age, the tyranny of desire has left me. ”

.. I remember someone asking Sophocles, the poet, whether he was still capable of enjoying a woman. ‘Don’t talk in that way,’ he answered; ‘I am only too glad to be free of all that; it is like escaping from bondage to a raging madman.’ “ The Republic

Stingray
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I’m curious why you think women have built up this support network of self-deception about their biological reality.

Because the more women who think it, the larger the herd and the easier it is to believe the pretty lies. Cognitive dissonance be damned.

theasdgamer
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@ Tam

Sophocles, wasn’t he the uncle of Testicles (pronounced “tes-ti-kleez”)?

LSCS
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@Terrance Gold: No need to imagine, I’m living it, but well. I am 51. Discovered the RP three years ago. Step 1 was dropping my 4-hour-away LDR. Step 2 was spinning plates. But I’m now married to an beautiful woman from my small town high school days. (Top 10% in looks for her age.) I tested her HARD while intentionally courting her; requiring her to keep pace with my active lifestyle and physical fitness. She knows she’s lost without my leadership. And now she’s near the end of menopause. The disappearance of the monthly cycle has been great for both… Read more »

Badpainter
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Rollo – “I can see this becoming a point of contention to the FI, until it can develop a way to compromise the two motives.” A compromise no doubt that only involves men acceding to the demands of the FI. Since that’s never failed to work in the past the FI has no reason to believe it won’t continue to work in the future. Any appearance of resistance on the part of men to the new order is evidence of misogyny, and justiication for state involvement. Nothing that time and a little patience can’t overcome. The only hiccup is the… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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The compromise position that the FI likes to reach is the claim that mutually exclusive views which can both favor the FI are simultaniously true.

Badpainter
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Rollo – “Cognitive dissonances mean nothing to the FI, it simply paints a target around any arrow a woman shoots and they always get a bullseye.” I see this as applicable to individual women as well. It’s as if the FI/women/female sex is a giant fractal. As such I think the great obstacle for men is that we are not actually uncaring monsters. We men do great damage to ourselves by assuming that women’s feelings are to be taken seriously as though they have substance. This sets us up to compromise our own needs/feelings/desires. Given the cognitive dissonance, the lack… Read more »

agent p
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I would wager the mortality age gap is precisely because men do have to perform their whole lives where women in many cases get a free ride for quite some percentage of their lives.
The extra miles at full torque for a man, that’s what strips off the years to make a difference. Thank goodness, I don’t want to overstay my welcome on this orb, just make sure my kids are set, then get the fuck out before I become a drooling lump of flesh.

Tilikum
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Tick Tock Ladies….

Glenn
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@ Rollo “it simply paints a target around any arrow a woman shoots and they always get a bullseye” – A real gem. You should save these for a book people have to actually pay for… However, I wonder how many men have actually let that statement and it’s implications sink in? One thing that really bothers me is the shock some men will show when some new insult or even lower level of imbecility is displayed. We have to stop being shocked. This is how it is. I say the degree to which this shit shocks you is the… Read more »

Stingray
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Rollo, In many, many cases, he old order and the new order fit together just fine. There are beta bucks more than willing to wife up the 30 something after her wild 20’s. Women do know this and are more than willing to take the limited risk that they won’t get that marriage . . . for now. I think this is going to be changing as more and more women are writing articles, prominent articles, about how they missed out on the beta bucks aspect of it. So, we will see which way the herd follows. I can tell… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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It’s “the center cannot hold.”

“and so it goes” – which he later abstracted simply to “Hi ho.”

caprizchka
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For what it’s worth, I believe that a lot of female insanity–before and after menopause–is tied to modern notions of nutrition. Since the modern woman is not as equipped for childbearing as she was designed, given ubiquitous nutrient deficiencies (kale is not the answer), this might result in disproportionate fearfulness in the face of male attention. After menopause, the deficiencies change, with insulin resistance and lack of tissue integrity being major factors, and estrogen not being the “youth tonic” it’s been touted to be, but rather more like an “insanity extender”. Whereas a lot of feminism has been about attempting… Read more »

agent p
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Come on Glenn, solipsism precludes serious self reflection and by extension precludes the ability to appreciate history and how it might reflect upon one’s own circumstances. But of course you already know that.

Perhaps the FI is actually at the root of anti-intellectualism today in Western Culture, trying to wash away history and accumulated cultural knowledge. Hmmmm? Or perhaps Anti-intellectualism is actually an antidote to the FI. This could cut both ways from where I sit.

donalgraeme
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@ Stingray

Because the more women who think it, the larger the herd and the easier it is to believe the pretty lies. Cognitive dissonance be damned.

True. But what I was looking for was the core impulse at work. The foundational aspect of female behavior that was driving it. Or the mix of them, should more than one be at work.

Exfernal
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Who was she (a 23yo there), and how did she look in her fifties?

Stingray
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Donal,

The very basis of what you are looking for, our base desire for this self deception, is that aging very often makes us irrelevant.

It’s terrifying.

Badpainter
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“Perhaps the FI is actually at the root of anti-intellectualism today in Western Culture, trying to wash away history and accumulated cultural knowledge.” I blame the French. 75 years ago a great war raged across Europe at the end the continent was divided up by the two great remaining powers because it was obvious the Europeans were incapable of governing themselves without dragging the whole world into a bloodbath every 20 years or so. The Europeans being self reflective and ashamed tossed the cultural babies and the bath water away and invented post modernism so that they might never have… Read more »

Badpainter
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Stingray – “our base desire for this self deception, is that aging very often makes us irrelevant.”

This is what happens when your sense of self is almost completely reliant on external validation.

agent p
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BP,
Ahh fuck that guy Jacques Derrida

Stingray
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BP,

Absolutely. One must learn to switch from the power of that external validation (the more beautiful she is, the more power she has) to the power of wisdom, husband, and family. The power from beauty is immediate and strong (the feeling). The power that comes with age is softer and with care, long lasting.

Helping women strive for the latter is incredibly difficult.

Glenn
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Glenn
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Indeed, you are correct on the Yeats. I was doing it from memory and I find since about 45 that it’s just less reliable than ever. Thanks for the catch.

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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“No social order has ever sold men the idea that they can simply ‘have‘ it all.”

Hell, today’s social order tries like hell to tell him he shouldn’t have anything at all as punishment for the evils of extremely wealthy white men far removed from him by time and/or social class. Pure lunacy turned first world zeitgeist.

Badpainter
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Badpainter
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Stingray,

It’s interesting you use the word “power.” Perhaps that’s the problem if you, a reasonable female commenter, are focusing on power then should I assume that would could extrapolated to women generally?

If power is what is at issue y’all are screwed. Most men seem be looking for some form peace or contentment, some way to escape the power struggle. For men power is tool not a goal.

Glenn
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Glenn
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@ agent p – I’m careful about throwing around the word solipsism to describe female consciousness as I believe it to be over-broad. I think it’s better to see it as narcissistic tendencies and a utilitarian approach to life that women are more attuned to. I’m writing a song right now entitled “Hero’s Game”, and also another called “The Red Queen”. It’s really interesting exploring the narrative we step into as men from an emotional, reflective perspective and attempt to make it lyrical and beautiful. In Hero’s Game, the plaintive refrain is simply, “Hero’s game, Hero’s game is what I’m… Read more »

Stingray
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Stingray
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BP, I have learned not to focus on that power any more for several reasons. I am trying to explain this in terms of women in general. Power is a good part of it, but this motivation can be squashed and redirected. It is still there underneath to be analyzed, though (because AWALT). Think of power, in this sense, as what a woman will feel from that external validation (Power probably is not the best term for what we have the potential to have with age). And I agree with you, when women let this feeling go and use it… Read more »

Luke
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Luke
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M Simon December 2nd, 2014 at 5:23 am “BTW the first mate has supposedly lost her attractiveness. And yet I’m still attracted to her. Must be the Ds. She is well past menopause but still gets wet. Sometimes just from my presence. On difficult days a little saliva gets things started. Five or ten minutes of stimulation is all it takes. I find it a real joy to have been with her for 40+ years now. And that is despite all the difficulties man/woman relations entail. We have raised a family together (4 kids) and are quite happy to have… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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“Cognitive dissonances mean nothing to the FI, it simply paints a target around any arrow a woman shoots and they always get a bullseye.”

A herd of rationalization hamsters does not a homogeneous group make. Take the average female’s ability to rationalize her way around any dissonance, spread that across a large enough group, and you wind up with an emergent movement (FI) that easily holds completely opposing views to be true effortlessly.

Badpainter
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Badpainter
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Stingray, That’s a very interesting perspective. It fits with my observation the girls are taught to seek power for themselves, while boys are admonished to use their power for good not evil, which assumes boys have power to start with. So there’s already a paradox where power is goal state for women, and tool, with safety instructions, for men. Women don’t appear to be taught that power has responsibility attached. You absolutely right about the competition factor. If I have to compete with a woman, within a relationship, I walk away because she has no ability to make my life… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@ Luke

From elsewhere on the Web (sorry no link):

“the life expectancy dropoff issue.”

Here ya go: http://www.demogr.mpg.de/papers/working/wp-2011-009.pdf

Kristophr
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Kristophr
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It is not poor design, Rollo.

Menopause sees to it that the woman has enough time to get her last cohort of kids to near adulthood without risk of death in childbirth.

Other women, who are young enough to keep bearing children, are now a better breeding target, and the woman in question has time to get her kids raised.

Stingray
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Stingray
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So there’s already a paradox where power is goal state for women, and tool, with safety instructions, for men. This is part of women having it all. Grabbing the power, getting it, and then never having to learn to use it for anything other than her own advantage. Only the perceived advantage is a poor one when she can’t figure out why she is just not happy. It is also a good demonstration that feminist are simply not interested in equality, to any degree. Rollo, That four year old writes and spells remarkably well. Assuming it was written by a… Read more »

Stingray
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Stingray
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When the FI is what you were born into and you refuse to see (or fear to see) what men have the potential to be, it’s no wonder.

Snowy
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Snowy
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Why is divorce so expensive?
Because it’s worth it!

Snowy
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Snowy
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It was a quote from Willie Nelson on the ‘Dukes of Hazzard’ movie. He had some really good jokes in that movie. Bloody hilarious!

kfg
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kfg
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I think I first heard that one about 50 years ago.

I subverted the joke. Although there was quite a bit of trauma involved, my divorce only cost me $658 out of pocket, with no further liability.

Her behaviour was so bad that what I got back in return for the trauma was a considerable lever to use against her and she was happy to get out without me pushing on it harder.

stuttie
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stuttie
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@ Glenn – Props on your dedication to looking after yourself in your early 50’s via the ‘Law of the Iron’ (a good inspirational read BTW if you haven’t already read it). I’m 9 years younger than you but still classify myself in the older guy category – so thanks for that last tip. To help in your fitness quest, I recommend trying the Paleo/Caveman nutrition regime (I hate the word diet) which I’ve been doing this month. I always struggled to get rid of the last 10-15 pounds of bf even with a solid heavy lifting schedule and HIIT… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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Are we going to have Nutrition Regime Engineers instead of Dieticians now?

I’ll stick with diet, just as I stick with garbage.

stuttie
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stuttie
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Maybe we should kfc.

stuttie
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stuttie
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actually, we’re both wrong – it would be a Nutrition Regimen Engineer.

spiralina
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spiralina
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“No social order has ever sold men the idea that they can simply ‘have‘ it all.” This is a really good point. I think most men are aware that after they get old, fat and gray, women aren’t going to look at them lustfully anymore. (Hell, plenty of young men don’t have women looking at them lustfully). But the reason so many 50+ women are so bitter and disappointed at their “invisibility” is because they bought into all that “Still sexy at 60!” nonsense peddled by women’s rags to sell overpriced skin creams. Old age isn’t sexy. It was never… Read more »

Glenn
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Glenn
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@ stuttie – Already eating Paleo and lower carb – ditto on everything you said. Notwithstanding @kfg’s discomfiture over the non-usage of the term “diet”, I also agree with that sentiment.

Just Saying
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Just Saying
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Here, let me fix this for you… Women ARE invisible to the opposite sex at the age of 51 And actually, it’s much younger than that… When a woman can no longer reproduce reliably (late 30’s) she is ready for the trash-heap. Sorry ladies… The truth hurts… You held all of the cards when you were younger – now you don’t… Of course, as 50+ year old man that regularly beds women in my chosen bracket of 18-25, the same isn’t true for men. For men, it’s just that bedding women is always a challenge – but once you learn… Read more »

Max from Australia
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Max from Australia
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@stuttie I can vouch for Stutties strength gains since going on Paleo – the man is a beast @spiralina “What’s the biological point of beng to ing sexually attractive well after fertility has dropped to zero? You’re supposed to have other priorities like gardening, baking cookies, nurturing your grandchildren,” The current crop unmarried 30 and 40 somethings are going to be the first generation in human history to grow old with no husband, no children, no religious community around them and probably no extended family living nearby to care for them. In Sydney there already being seen as taking up… Read more »

Badpainter
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Badpainter
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spiralina – “…the reason so many 50+ women are so bitter and disappointed at their ‘invisibility’ is because they bought into all that ‘Still sexy at 60!’nonsense peddled by women’s rags…” And yet I’ve heard these same wrinkled, fucked out crones laugh at the guys who fail to “just get it,” or worse offer sickening sweet hollow sympathy to younger “nice guys” with a big dose of “just be yourself” advice. Of course the wisdom they have to share with younger women is the same feminist empowerment nonsense that got them where they are today. So their advice to young… Read more »

stuttie
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stuttie
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Trouble is, go out on the town on a weekend and the 35-50 yo muttons still get hit on by younger thirsty betas. Like Roosh said, the wall is softer than we think http://www.rooshv.com/the-wall-is-softer-than-we-think

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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“Change in body odor”
You know, one of the plates I’m spinning (the oldest and soon to be dropped) turned 41 a few months back. She already smells… I dunno… old? She’s cute “for her age”, but I can’t get aroused with that old smell like a grandma. It’s unfortunate; she’s not even in menopause, but the odor is enough to start turning me off.

@stuttie
Yeah, but the women will still turn them down or bemoan how all the “good men” are gone while pining for an alpha. It’s rather comical, honestly.

Max from Australia
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Max from Australia
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@stuttie

Are you surprised to hear that there is not one shread of Protien or fresh produce in any of my fridges or cupboards right now…

And yet the princess has just gone out “shopping”…. I know she wont bring any proper food back..

I’m going to buy some meat and protien powder now. text me if you want anything.

stuttie
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stuttie
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@ Sun Wukong – Yep, they live in a false SMP economy, further exasperated by beta sausage festivals.

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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@Rollo
Holy shit. You could almost measure the amount of dick she’s had in *miles*.

Even without knowing the whore past, she looks like she’s been rode hard and put up wet more times than I can count. I wouldn’t touch that with my worst enemy’s dick.

kfg
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kfg
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” . . . it would be a Nutrition Regimen Engineer.” And what’s funny, it’s actually people using regime when they mean regimen that’s usually what sets me off. I was actually trying to be moderate in my tone by only going after the one target. My discomfiture is that diet is a nice, short word that means precisely “the stuff you eat,” and the psuedo scientific technojargon term “Nutrition Regimen” actually means something a bit different and might be acurately applied to a can of Ensure, but not to the Paleo diet, as the Paleo diet has no defined… Read more »

stuttie
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stuttie
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@ Rollo – yeah that “story” broke yesterday in Aust – too funny. re- Beta sexual deprivation, I’ve witnessed this first-hand close to home. My ex wife 47, is now living with a mid 30’s Asian/Mexican cross looking dude, cuckolding my 2 kids. She was definitely a hb8 (am I right Max?) when I married her at 33. Now a hb6 at best. She hit the wall hard (as they all do) and probably in menopause – I actually feel very sorry for that thirsty dude. @ Max – not surprised at all – wall hitters will instinctively try to… Read more »

stuttie
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stuttie
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@ kfg – I just think the term diet implies the restricting of food, which Paleo is certainly not.

A regimen is a plan, a regulated course such as a diet, exercise or medical treatment, designed to give a positive result.

Each to their own – the point was not debating or reinventing a term for diet, it was to help Glenn and others re the fitness benefits of eating Paleo.

stuttie
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stuttie
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@ Sun Wukong & Rollo – you can. It’s close to a mile of dick.

Her pussodometer would probably read 1.5 cock miles. That’s the car equivalent of https://autos.yahoo.com/news/the-first-car-to-3-million-miles-.html

stuttie
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stuttie
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Makes you wonder why there has been a flurry of 40 yo old ex whores coming out in the media lately http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/amanda-goff-reveals-double-life-as-highclass-escort-in-sunday-night-interview/story-e6frfmyi-1227043132293

More examples of open hypergamy? The FI / MSM crowing that old whores are still in high demand thus reinforcing the “we still got it” boilerplate?

Ras Al Ghul
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Ras Al Ghul
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“. . . tell you about how the hot piece of ass who became your long term ONEitis will eventually experience some (possibly all) of the 34 Symptoms of Menopause roughly 20-25 years after you say ‘I do’ (assuming it lasts so long)?”

Its more like 15 years max before it sets in, not 20-25, since it usually hits mid 40s and women are getting married latter and later.

Snowy
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Snowy
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It’s way past time we heard from Yoda. Where are you Yoda?

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