Teach Your Children Well

teaching_4yos

Yes I know my enemies, they’re the teachers who taught me to fight me.

Today’s picture comes to us courtesy of popsugar – h/t heartiste and Zelscorpion.

In honor of International Men’s Day, this picture serves as a grim reminder that boys are often pressured to succumb to gendered expectations. Last year, a group of fourth grade boys was asked to list what they don’t like about being male, and the sad results were projected in the classroom. It’s important to consider what we are teaching young boys about what it means to be a man or masculine. How do you approach gender expectations with your children?

I’m leading off with this for the weekend’s discussion post because it encapsulates precisely what I was describing towards the end of my post on Vulnerability, that our modern normative social consciousness is one that is defined by a female-correct, female-beneficial experience. Bear in mind that this projection is from the collected, learned experiences of a group of 9 year old boys who have been conditioned to a self-loathing of masculinity in a feminine-correct social order.

The question, “What I don’t like about being a boy” seems fairly innocuous, but in a feminine-correct social awareness it becomes a litmus test to gauge how well these boys have internalized feminine-correct, conditioned beliefs. Read the list of offending grievances:

  • Not being able to be a mother
  • Not supposed to cry
  • Not allowed to be a cheerleader
  • Supposed to do all the work
  • Supposed to like violence
  • Supposed to play football
  • Boys smell bad
  • Having an automatic bad reputation
  • Grow hair everywhere

The list reads like the table of contents from the textbook of exactly what I’d expect from an organized feminine-primary conditioning, however we need to look deeper. It’s important to bear in mind that these uniquely male attributes are grievances these boys wish they could alter about themselves. These boys believe their lives would be improved (perfected) if they could be less like boys and more like girls. Masculine incorrect, feminine correct.

I’m often criticized of being conspiratorial for my assertion that the Feminine Imperative conditions men from a very early age to accept their eventual Beta supportive role later in life. While this masculine grievance list from 4th grade boys is a good illustration, it’s simply one example of the earliest parts of the feminine-correct landscape men are raised not just to internalize, but to evangelize about to other boys / men as well.

The Patriarchy

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Amongst the crown jewels of the most useful of feminine operative social conventions is the meta-contrivance of an ever present, omni-oppressive state of masculine social control – the Patriarchy. The term was coined by the luminaries of second wave feminism to give name to an otherwise ambiguous enemy. That ambiguity was a necessary buffer to mask the real focus of feminism’s intended destructiveness – masculinity.

If you read between the lines of Sarkesian’s tweet here you can see the presumption of experiential feminine-correctness that is her mental point of origin. Her presumed context for all her public interactions is that any normal male reading it, what she believes is logic, will already be prepared to accept that what is in women’s best interests is necessarily what is in men’s best interests.

Thus, deductively, what is perceived by women to be harmful to women is necessarily harmful to men – all because the concept of what is harmful or beneficial to either proceeds from a conditioned understanding of ubiquitous female-correctness.

Hardline feminists, female and male, will rattle this trope off in different varieties, but the message is the same, “the Patriarchy hurts men too.” The reason this is standard boilerplate is because it presumes a shared state of feminine-correctness, and a shared state of mutual oppression whether a man is aware of his Patriarchal oppression or not.

This social convention is really a form of marketeering; selling a solution to a problem it created itself. The true focus isn’t about solving problems created by an imagined male-social dominance, nor is it about marginalizing the less palatable aspects of masculinity. Rather, the true objective is a wholesale elimination of any semblance of conventional masculinity in men.

This learned feminine ‘correctness’ began with the 4th grade (actually before then) boy’s conditioned self-loathing of their masculinity.

“I find myself increasingly shocked at the unthinking and automatic rubbishing of men which is now so part of our culture that it is hardly even noticed.

We have many wonderful, clever, powerful women everywhere, but what is happening to men? Why did this have to be at the cost of men?

I was in a class of nine- and 10-year-olds, girls and boys, and this young woman was telling these kids that the reason for wars was the innately violent nature of men.

You could see the little girls, fat with complacency and conceit while the little boys sat there crumpled, apologizing for their existence, thinking this was going to be the pattern of their lives.

Lessing said the teacher tried to catch my eye, thinking I would approve of this rubbish.

This kind of thing is happening in schools all over the place and no one says a thing.

It has become a kind of religion that you can’t criticize because then you become a traitor to the great cause, which I am not.

It is time we began to ask who are these women who continually rubbish men. The most stupid, ill-educated and nasty woman can rubbish the nicest, kindest and most intelligent man and no one protests.

Men seem to be so cowed that they can’t fight back, and it is time they did.”

– Doris Lessing

While this account is an indictment of the Feminine Imperative, the irony of Lessing’s shock and disgust is that in the feminine-primary social environment she’s contributed to, only a woman can authoritively observe and describe men’s debasement and be taken with any amount of seriousness. No man could’ve written this and been taken as anything but misogyny.
I received a pertinent email from a reader, Dan, this week:

Rollo, why do women raise their sons to be beta?

In my personal experience and from what many men who have made the red pill transition have said, most mothers seem to raise their sons to be beta. From an evolutionary prospective this makes no sense. It would be in the best interest of a woman’s genetics and future bloodline to raise alpha sons who can subsequently attract and impregnate more women, yet it seems women overwhelmingly raise their sons to be beta (“women want a nice guy”, “just be yourself”, and encouraging submissive behavior toward women). I could understand why society as a whole would promote this dynamic because it benefits the female Imperative, but at the individual level, evolution tends to be much more selfish. What gives?

Dan

A woman, your mother, sister, aunt, grandmother and every girl ‘friend’ you think you have are all in on a meta-shit test – they want you, and their sons, to Just Get It in spite of what they mistakenly believe are in your best interests as a man. You must embrace an Alpha mindset without a woman instructing you to be so or by definition you are not Alpha.

Women fundamentally lack an existential male experience, so the advice, the upbringing, to be more Beta, be more compromising of the masculine for the feminine, stems from women’s best guess as to what would make their sons into the best men they believe they themselves would like to pair and bond with.

Women’s sexual strategy is rooted in dualistic hypergamy – Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks. Women already feel the familial kin-affiliation with their sons (the comforting Beta bucks security side of hypergamy) thus the Alpha Fucks side conflicts with that investment.

In the case of most single mothers, the hindsight regret of having achieved her subconscious goal of securing the Alpha Fucks genetics in her prime fertility years may be distorted by her inability to adequately realize the Beta Bucks side of her Hypergamy when the Alpha father declines the parental investment she thought would be forthcoming from him. Thus, that Beta Bucks idealization gets transferred to her son(s) and is reflected in how she raises him.

Also remember, Hypergamy is based on two parts, sexuality and security. It also stands to reason that by ensuring her son is a good manipulable Beta provider (by both her and any woman he pairs with) that his provisioning would also extend to her in the event that his father dies or abandoned her.

One last thing, human parenting evolved from the parental investment of a complementary masculine influence to balance a feminine influence. When left to a singular feminine influence in upbringing, you’re correct, it makes no evolutionary “sense”. Thus we have our contemporary landscape filled with “men” who are overwhelmingly feminized and ill prepared to lead complementary relationships with women.

Towards the end of my Vulnerability post I tackled a documentary by Jennifer Siebel Newsom called The Masks You Live In. In that part of the essay I described how the Feminine Imperative coordinates social conventions which invalidates the male experience by fostering the idea that conventional masculinity is an act or a front men put on to distract from what really lies behind the mask – a ‘true self’ defined by feminine-correct sensitivities and emotionalism:

Perhaps more damaging though is the effort the Feminine Imperative has made in convincing generations of men that masculinity and its expressions (of any kind) is an act, a front, not the real man behind the mask of masculinity that’s already been predetermined by his feminine-primary upbringing.

You see, it’s not enough to simply raise generations of boys to question what it means to be male, the idea of a male defined masculinity is dangerous to a feminine-primary social order. Boys must be taught to be self-loathing of their maleness, to despise what it is to eventually be a man.

And even that’s not sufficient. Men must be continually reminded that masculinity is ridiculous, pitiable in it’s attempts to understand the feminine, and that men would already be feminine-correct beings if they’d simply drop the facade of their mask of positive masculinity.

Here’s the face of your perfected ‘adult’ male:

“When looking for a life partner, my advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But do not marry them. The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands. When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home. These men exist and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.”

― Sheryl Sandberg, Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead

These are the men that the Feminine Imperative has created. The men who, “want an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home.” The men the imperative must convince are ‘sexier’ at precisely the concurrent time that their provisioning and security are most important to women at their necessitous phase of life.

These are the men who made the list of things they were taught they shouldn’t like about being a boy when they were 9 years old.

So for this weekend’s discussion question I’ll ask the same thing popsugar did, how do (will) you approach gender expectations with your children?

210 comments

  1. The question, “What I don’t like about being a boy” seems fairly innocuous, but…

    …but it’s the ultimate frame setting from a female authority figure (how did we ever let that happen?) to a young, defenseless and captive male audience.

    why do women raise their sons to be beta?

    In addition to the meta-shit test (Just Get It) that Rollo mentions, there is another very important dynamic at work: BRIFFAULT’S LAW.

    http://www.stickmanweekly.com/ReadersSubmissions2009/reader5546.htm

    The mother is seeking to secure further resources – additional beta providers who are enslaved through guilt and other conditioning. This happens when the trade-off between the two competing prime directives of survival (I, me, mine!) and reproduction (self sacrifice for genetic propagation) becomes warped by excessive solipsism.

    Always Briffault’s Law.

  2. What I don’t like about being a boy? Who comes up with this crap? Aren’t they supposed to be teaching our children and not indoctrinating them? How does advance education? Seriously, enough with all the brainwashing already. No wonder our education system sucks.

    For funs I would have wrote “um, I don’t get to bleed for a week every month for years and years” lolz

  3. After all this indoctrination is it any great suprise that games like Grand Theft Auto V have players hacking chicks up with axes and the like for fun. No prizes for guessing why there is a large market for this sort of thing. I’m serious when i say it’s very disturbing.

  4. If a man is adamant to find a woman who abides by his need for mutual empathy, compromise and common goals in a relationship, he’ll have to search long and hard to find it in a woman worth having. Ultimately, he will, absent of a comparable lottery win, need to give much on his predilection for female looks in place of a woman with less options in the sexual market.

    In essence, the modern day has produced a female specimen that is self-indulged, self-entitled, expectant, unappreciative, and, in addition to all this, someone who constantly needs to be reminded of her value to the world. All this is with an opposing force sailing against her that derives in insecurity, doubts, low confidence and a big ego.

    So women need the flock of betas to satisfy these demands, but this mass male market will only take their satisfaction thresholds so far.

    The below post explains why they will never tell you what goes on in that little head of theirs.

    http://www.vinaywcmd.com/2014/11/why-woman-will-not-admit-truth.html

  5. Well, although I always wanted to be Ward Cleaver it’s almost a certainty that that ship long ago sailed, got torpedoed at the mouth of the harbor, rolled over, left a huge oil slick, sank, and now presents a navigation hazard for all other traffic. Had I learned all of this stuff at the age of 32 vs. 42 things might be different. Since women commit as opportunistically as they love there is no point in assuming the risk of a long term multi-year investment. Only a fool spends money to renovate/improve a property he can only rent on a month to month basis, and it seems the same with modern LTRs. Oh well, at least I’m not dealing with the  fear I won’t be good a father. 

    But in terms of how to deal with sons. I think the father’s role is in creatively undermining the mothers caustic influence. Mitigating the mother’s attempt at beta conditioning will solve many of these problems. Basic stuff like eating veggies, and doing chores aside the father must constantly teach his son that women know exactly fuck all or less about being men. As well the father must be on guard for the possibility the mother is using her son as a proxy for a beta orbiter, and must crush that impulse immediately. Under no circumstances should the mother ever be using, or be permitted to use her son as a confidant, confessor, or counselor.

  6. I remember being 25 and telling my female roommates that I couldn’t understand why women were even attracted to men … since we were all so gross and hairy, etc. I honestly believed it. In retrospect this was a buffer against rejection I’d developed that was based on the kind of feminine conditioning discussed in the post. Back then I was the type of AFC who could get laid based on looks but couldn’t keep anything around.

    I should have been taught, and I will teach my boys (6 and 3 now) that women’s bodies and brains are designed to collect semen and that you just have to act according to a few principles for a lot of them to want to collect yours.
    ————
    With my 4-year old daughter I play a silly game that goes like this:

    Me: Ok, instead let’s do some girl’s stuff like running through mud puddles
    Her: (laughter) No, that’s boy’s stuff (laughter)
    Me: Let’s go do some boy’s stuff like playing with dolls.
    Her: (laughing) No, that’s girl’s stuff. (more laughing)
    Me: Well let’s do some girl’s stuff like calculus.
    Her: No, that’s boy’s stuff (laughing the whole time)

    I was just kidding about the last one but the whole point is to communicate that in spite of what she may hear in the world, the men and women are different and that’s ok.

  7. Women really have to believe the shit they’ll be talking about the whole time, otherwise it would be impossible for a logical human being to be like that without going nuts.

    Concerning Briffault’s Law: the theory makes perfect sense. If we imply that 20% of the male population be alpha by default and you can’t change anything about it, women have to make sure all other men are thirsty beta providers awaiting to fulfill their part i.e. provisioning. And it’s true for mothers as well. Hell, they don’t give a fuck if their sons are alpha, usually. AWALT

  8. As usual a good take on the issue.

    When I posted the pic on twitter I got instantly attacked by women claiming that this kind of education is only teaching boys to be more sensitive. One woman then thought that I would listen more to men and linked to one such “sensitivity”-campaign led by some footballer, as if I would care more what one celebrity says publicly. Finally I was branded a misogynist and I left it at that.

    I wonder if women would be fine with the following being asked in school:
    “What I don’t like about being a girl.”
    “What I don’t like about being a black boy / black girl.”
    “What I don’t like about being a Christian boy / Christian girl.”
    “What I don’t like about being a Jewish boy / Jewish girl.”
    “What I don’t like about being a poor boy / poor girl.”

    Those questions are taboo – man-bashing is fine.

  9. Those kind of questions should all be taboo, because as you aptly put it – they inherently imply that something is wrong with being a boy, girl, black, Christian or poor.

  10. Lessing seems, to me, to distract by misindentifying the enemy “It is time we began to ask who are these women who continually rubbish men.” and by misidentifying the solution “Men seem to be so cowed that they can’t fight back, and it is time they did.”

    The enemy isn’t vague, and we don’t have to ask who they are: it is ALL of the changes in society designed to prop up women at the expense of men. The solution isn’t vague; it isn’t men’s fault that society is mistreating men; it isn’t the abused kid’s responsibility to “fight back” against the abusing parent. It is society’s responsibility to cease abusing.

  11. Good God, if the classroom slide isn’t an argument in favor of Home Schooling, then send me to Femi-Communist Re-education Camp now.

    That slide and its context reminded me of a scene from Huxley’s ‘Brave New World’;

    “What’s the lesson this afternoon?” he asked.

    “We had Elementary Sex for the first forty minutes,” she answered. “But now it’s switched over to Elementary Class Consciousness.”

    The Director walked slowly down the long line of cots. Rosy and relaxed with sleep, eighty little boys and girls lay softly breathing. There was a whisper under every pillow. The D.H.C. halted and, bending over one of the little beds, listened attentively.

    “Elementary Class Consciousness, did you say? Let’s have it repeated a little louder by the trumpet.”

    At the end of the room a loud speaker projected from the wall. The Director walked up to it and pressed a switch.

    “… all wear green,” said a soft but very distinct voice, beginning in the middle of a sentence, “and Delta Children wear khaki. Oh no, I don’t want to play with Delta children. And Epsilons are still worse. They’re too stupid to be able to read or write. Besides they wear black, which is such a beastly colour. I’m so glad I’m a Beta.”

    There was a pause; then the voice began again.

    “Alpha children wear grey They work much harder than we do, because they’re so frightfully clever. I’m really awfully glad I’m a Beta, because I don’t work so hard. And then we are much better than the Gammas and Deltas. Gammas are stupid. They all wear green, and Delta children wear khaki. Oh no, I don’t want to play with Delta children. And Epsilons are still worse. They’re too stupid to be able …”
    -Brave New World, Chapter 2.

    How can any man send their children to these indoctrination camps that debase the bodies, minds, and souls of their sons(& their daughters)? The only antidote to the Feminist/Sex Positive/LGBT/Environmentalist/Social Justice Warrior brainwashing is to pull your sons out of public schools and either send them to a private school(if you can afford it) you can trust or home-school them. Remove your sons from the culture that despises them. Clearly, entrusting the education of your child, especially your sons to these people in the public schools will spell disaster for them as it will teach them to be slaves-especially to the Feminine, the Culture, and the State(which are all now one)

    The bottom line is you have to personally seize control of your sons education and teach them to be men. Even if your wife protests. If she’s worth a damn she’ll see the same poisonous dynamics in the schools and society and help you. You simply can not leave it to others, especially the Leftist ideologues entrenched in the public education system. At least give your sons an idea that there is another choice out there for them.

  12. @The Other Jim

    You are absolutely right. I personally decided for my future children to either be home-schooled or sent to some old-style elite schools – most of them in Europe, where our world plutocratic leader send their children who are NOT being taught the same rubbish there.
    Otherwise you would have to go through every step of the curriculum and try to counter the propaganda step by step.

  13. Really great post. Fortunately for me, my Japanese wife embraces (so far) the reinforcement of masculine traits in my son and feminine traits in my daughters. Feminism is trying to make inroads into Japanese culture, but fortunately, still has a ways to go.

  14. The biggest shit test a woman has ever given is to convince society that feminism is what they really want. The truth is, all men need to do is continue behaving like men and embrace their masculinity to know the truth. Women love being lead, dominated and told what to do. Any woman who shames me on that gets a flash of my ‘Alpha’ which promptly puts her in her place.

  15. Let me try again. I hit the submit button to quickly . . .

    how do (will) you approach gender expectations with your children?

    This is how we are trying to raise my kids, (written from my motherly perspective):

    For boys and for girls, part 1 and part 2.

  16. “Teach Your Children”
    Music and Lyrics by Graham Nash
    Performed by Crosby, Stills and Nash

    You who are on the road must have a code that you can live by
    And so become yourself because the past is just a good bye
    Teach your children well, their father’s hell did slowly go by
    And feed them on your dreams, the one they fix, the one you’ll know by
    Don’t you ever ask them why, if they told you, you would cry
    So just look at them and sigh and know they love you

  17. It’s easy for us to blame our mothers for indoctrinating us into believing their foolish ideals, but in general most of them have our best interest at heart. I can forgive my mother for raising me to believe the lies perpetuated by society because she knows no other way. Our mothers all tried their best to do right by us, and we should remember that they want us to succeed in life and relationships. Do not blame your mother for not knowing how to be a man, for it is not her place. Blame your father for either not being there or for never awakening to the harsh truth of reality.

    It is a man’s responsibility to carve his own path in life. We will not stand to be shat on by the Feminine Imperative. In this society, a man must learn to rail against the machine with all his might.

    Remember, brothers: you are the only one who truly cares about your future.

  18. This is nothing new.

    I would like to share my own experiences in this matter, something I’ve never done before, from the most feminized country in the world, no less: Sweden. I’m a Swedish “recovering beta”, but I used to be alpha as a little boy. In daycare and pre-school, I was a natural little boy alpha, tugging girls hair and whatnot, I’m sure you can make up a picture in your mind. It was nearly twenty years ago, and I was only eight years old when this alpha-ness was taken, yes taken is the right word, from me. I still remember it clear as day. My female teacher (lesbian and feminist I found out later in life) was getting upset with my behaviour. So one day, she took a chair and placed it in the middle of the classroom and sat me down in it. What followed can’t be labeled as anything other than child abuse. She started mocking me and my behaviour in front of the entire class, insulting my clothing (my family wasn’t very well-off) and stated that I was a prime example of someone who wasn’t right in the head. I was broken afterwards, but didn’t cry. I never said anything to my parents, only that I wanted to change class. My parents didn’t understand why, but my dad noticed something was wrong and went through with the paperwork to get me into another class. I was granted permission to change, but only after a couple of months. Those months were some of the worst in my life. The last day, she again put me in the middle of the classroom and almost screamed at me what an idiot I was for wanting to change class, and requested I told the whole class what the reason for the change was. I stayed silent, again holding back tears.

    My next teacher was a friendly, young man, and I got along well, but the damage was already done, and during the rest of my schoolyears up tp graduating high school, I was a shy, introverted beta without gut or balls. I found the red pill about two years ago, via heartiste’s website, then later this blog and RSD. I am making personal changes in my life now, but it will take time to become a “man” again, possibly the rest of my life, and let me tell you, the laws and mindset here in Sweden isn’t making things easier.

    I met my wife at the age of 16, which may sound strange, and in retrospect it is. I was very passionate about a hobby I still have though, which was probably the only bit of alpha-ness I had during my teenage years, but it was enough to attract her. She’s a good woman, and without the wife-glasses on, I’d say she’s a seven, but with good, traditional ideas about how a family should be. And let me tell you, that’s VERY rare in the most “equal” country on earth.

    About child-rearing though. We have a 10-month old daughter, and I plan to raise her like a typical girl. I will encourage her to take up dancing or gymnastics and tell her to read books and listening to her when she needs it. Also to try and pass along the traditional ideas about men and women with me and my wife as role-models, and although I absolutely DREAD the cock-carousel, if she maintains her body and brain by reading and physical activities, at least she might make one of the alphas stick around. That’s realistically the best I can hope for. But I will do as much as I can for it to turn out that way.
    /Simon

  19. I am married and have 2 girls.

    How do I set gender expectations?

    By modeling the masculine myself, and setting feminine expectations with my wife.

    My wife only works part time. She cleans the home, she cares for the kids. I insist that she include the kids in all of the household chores.

    My wife is required to wear clothing that I find attractive on her. My wife is required to dress our girls in feminine styles too. The kids are encouraged to play dress-up, house, and with makeup.

    Getting my girls to act like girls isn’t really the question. The real question is: How the holy hell am I supposed to prepare them for adulthood?

    Am I supposed to teach them to be caring wives and mothers? (What are the real chances of them finding a man to marry who isn’t a little beta bitch? Is alpha cad or AFC who’s ashamed of their own dick really the only options?)

    Or am I supposed to do what everyone says I should do, and send them to college to get an “education” so that they can be self supportive?

    Trying to raise red pill kids in a blue pill, crabs in a barrel society, is quite interesting…

  20. “A woman, your mother, sister, aunt, grandmother and every girl ‘friend’ you think you have are all in on a meta-shit test – they want you, and their sons, to Just Get It in spite of what they mistakenly believe are in your best interests as a man. You must embrace an Alpha mindset without a woman instructing you to be so or by definition you are not Alpha.”

    I’ll pick a nit here. This is almost correct.

    It’s not so much that the women of a boy’s youth want him to “Just Get It”. They believe that he already does, or should, “Just Get It”. They believe that because he is a man, he already “just gets it”. (And perhaps he would, or he does, were it not for the pernicious effects of feminine primacy in caring for boys in their youth and in the systematic removal of fathers from boys’ lives.) To women, his “maleness means aggression, violence, rape and criminal behavior. To women’s way of thinking, the tempering, “civilizing” influence that only she can bring will make him “acceptable” to a woman so he can marry, mate and have offspring. He has to “be nice” so that a woman will stay with him long enough to bear his children.

    “Women fundamentally lack an existential male experience, so the advice, the upbringing, to be more Beta, be more compromising of the masculine for the feminine, stems from women’s best guess as to what would make their sons into the best men they believe they themselves would like to pair and bond with.”

    Yes. When mom gets her baby boy to be “more Beta”, she’s best guessing on what would make her son into the best men she believes that she as a young woman would want. She’s remembering her failures with her boy’s father, and trying to make her son into a kinder, gentler version of the bad boys she used to enjoy.

    The important thing is that Mom thinks she’s doing the right thing here. She believes she’s just adding some civilization to her feral son. A pinch of beta here, a dash there, won’t corrupt the essential maleness of her son, to her way of thinking. If she can just get him to rein himself in just a little, he’ll be OK. He can’t possibly attract a woman being the hairy, boorish, clumsy, loud, boisterous young man he is. He can’t keep a woman happy being so insistent on his own way.

    But you’ve hit the nail on the head by pointing out that at bottom, it is simply because women just have no experience of what men are and what they go through. They don’t understand what the daily experience of a man is or over the long arc of his life.

  21. At this point I’m at a bit of a loss as to how I’ll do it. My son is three this month. I was raised beta by a single mom, like you mentioned, so I don’t have a good role model to go by and apply to my own son. I wish there were redpill resources out there for fathers as they relate to their children.

  22. Women raise betas because that is their back up plan

    If her son is good with women he’ll have less cash, time and other resources for her

    Women above all else are selfish, self centered etc and only concerned with her own welfare. Usually they don’t even understand they are operating this way but it doesn’t change the fact its how they are

  23. Live Fearless, Anita already is R-list famous

    a correspondent notes:-
    “She really isn’t that important. She’s never been the issue, she’s just a symptom of the disease. There’s nothing wrong with saying incredibly stupid things in YouTube videos, that’s a staple of the internet, the problem is how she was canonized for it and the fact that even the mildest criticism of anything she ever said was made verboten.

    Even if she was made completely radioactive and they had to disavow her–say someone found irrefutable proof that she was leading a ring of pedophile terrorists, or that she loudly talks on her cellphone in movie theaters–there would be no shortage of grifters eager to fill the void and play professional victim for that sweet, sweet Kickstarter/Patreon money.

    Fixing the ecosystem that enabled her to so easily become an apex con artist will take far, far more than discrediting any one individual, no matter how prominent or supported.”
    [my bold]

  24. Just wanted to share this tidbit. A homeless shelter turns a family away because they have a teenage boy. He’s too much of a sexual threat to be on the women’s side and too young to be with the men. Read it and weep. http://www.boardingschoolreview.com/all-boys-boarding-schools.php

    15 years old, and the boy is already disposable. We are so inured to this that we may not really get how incredible all this is. Just take a second and try to imagine that you are the intake people (has to be women) at this shelter and your position is,”We can’t take you in because you have a 15 year old boy.” Try to imagine what kind of antiseptic harridan one would have to be to even utter such a sentiment? Note that the cops (mostly men) acted – using their own money to help this family. How sick does a person have to be to go along with this? Answer: Not sick – just female.

    Living through this is like watching a slow motion genocide.

  25. . Women already feel the familial kin-affiliation with their sons (the comforting Beta bucks security side of hypergamy) thus the Alpha Fucks side conflicts with that investment.

    Brilliant

  26. @Simon and @CaveClown –
    Daughters are the tricky part for a man.
    I deal with my young cousins and have already started to teach them Game and the Red Pill at the ages of 12 & 14.
    As far as women go, their Red Pill part can only go so far. Sure – you can tell them about attraction points, the folly of feminism and how it usually ends for feminists, you can prepare them to look for the best man they can find at an early age.
    However as you have well noted – due to ever greater promiscuity the Alphas and the men with Game become Players or at least cheat on their wives and girlfriends very often. Unless she is ready to accept that it will be hard call.
    I would propose a different strategy to many of them: She should find a Beta she is attracted to who has some masculine qualities – like a passion in life. Then simply and bluntly introduce that man to the Red Pill via some Websites and contact with her Red Pill daddy. Many Greater Betas would go for it. Given even a short period of time that Beta boyfriend could easily up the Alpha and test his new-found Game on your daughter (and some harmless flirting if may be). Most men – 70%-80% in my estimate – have no desire or passion to be Players – that kind of lifestyle takes energy, resolve and some kind of drive – sometimes even a broken compass within.

    So – yeah – best bet for your daughter is a Beta that starts the Red Pill journey nudged by her & you. Those guys make the best husbands if they can up the Alpha. The likelihood of a reformed former Player is much much lower.

  27. Unfortunately, the blame for boys’ upbringing goes mostly to the beta dad’s. The women don’t consciously understand what they are doing. It is a father’s job to raise a man. Most father’s that I meet in my son’s school are pathetic excuses for men.

  28. wolf – “Our mothers all tried their best to do right by us, and we should remember that they want us to succeed in life and relationships.”

    You’re an optimist.

    Remember the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

  29. “Amongst the crown jewels of the most useful of feminine operative social conventions is the meta-contrivance of an ever present, omni-oppressive state of masculine social control – the Patriarchy. The term was coined by the luminaries of second wave feminism to give name to an otherwise ambiguous enemy.”

    a favorite passage from the book Art and Physics – Leonard Shlain

    ————————————-
    When we reflect, ruminate, reminisce, muse and imagine, generally we revert to the visual mode. But in order to perform the brain’s highest function, abstract thinking, we abandon the use of images and are able to carry on without resorting to them. It is with great precision that we call this type of thinking, “abstract.” This is the majesty and the tyranny of language.

    To affix a name to something is the beginning of control over it.

    After God created Adam, the very first task He instructed Adam to perform was the naming of all the animals. God informed Adam that by accomplishing this feat he would gain dominion over all the beasts and fowl. Note that God didn’t teach Adam anything as practical as how to make a fire or fashion a spear. Instead, He taught him to name. Words, more than strength or speed, became the weapons that humans have used to subdue nature.
    —————————————

    All “conscious-raising” (aka brainwashing) movements, like Feminism, and Nazi-ism know that giving something a name is a cornerstone on which to build propaganda.

    Any men’s movement should take this to heart and use it to it’s advantage.

  30. Daughters, uggh. I have a 26 yr old who has been fully dipped in FI and man hatred by her covert narcissist mother. and is now alienated from me by her own doing. My insights to various commenters here:

    1. You kid yourself if you think you can shield your children – male or female – from this. If you think so, you don’t understand the nature of the problem. The FI is everywhere – it’s in your fucking head. It’s on the TV, in the music videos they’ll watch thousands of times with their friends, in school, at the dance class – you get my point? There is no insulating your kids from it.

    2. Sex – Someone up above claimed he was terrified of the cock carousel for his daughter. Here’s a hint – she’s not your girlfriend, she’s your daughter. She will have whatever sex she wants to, without consulting you because she shouldn’t. And if she’s attractive – which you should pray for – she will have her choice of many men to fuck and have fun with. Why would you take that away from your daughter? Why do you think you have a stake in her sexual behavior? Is this a Beta thing? I don’t really care how man men a woman has fucked. Someone else mentioned Gwyneth’s “1000 cock stare” – uhh, I’m not sure what the fuck any of you are talking about. In this, women are right about men – we need to stop being hypocrites about this. Put simply, your daughter is not going to stop before sucking her first cock at 14 and call you and ask, “Dad, should I go down on this guy?” If you can’t deal with that, you need to grow the fuck up. Every women you ever fucked or splattered is someone’s daughter. Your’s is not a special case.

    3. They are societies children by the age of 10 or so, not yours. Your ability to influence their behavior after that age is very limited, as you’ll find out if you don’t already have adolescent children. This is normal.

    4. Your daughters are women. There is something innate about that which you can’t control. I realized by 13 that my daughter was one of them now. I joked about it with her at the time, saying, “You’re on their side now, aren’t you?” She would laugh and admit it. But get this, men, every women you know is someone’s daughter. Much of what’s going on is due to culture and biology being at odds with each other, and no matter what you teach your daughter, nothing will change the basics. Your daughter is likely to grow up to be awful in the way many woman are – deal with it. Keep gaming her and never let down your guard or show vulnerability. That is your only chance, and the sooner you do it, the better off you will be.

    5. It took a long time to get to this point, and like a cucumber that has been pickled, there is no going back. Species evolve forward. The only thing that will stop this crap is if the human groups adopting these values fail to reproduce and spread their ideas. We are seeing low birthrates in white, westerners, but the radical leftists/radfems are also inculcating higher reproducing demos like Hispanic and other immigrant populations. So we don’t know how it’s going to play out yet.

    But in the end, this cake is baked boys. There is no un-baking it. Women are succeeding raucously with these strategies and they are increasing their reach and dominance. And the majority of men will not fight to change it – don’t we already know that? Alphas don’t care. Betas are sucked in. And really, RP guys are mostly a small number of either losers in the mating game who are highly intelligent or guys who have been torn up by divorce or custody issues or crazy women abusing them. We are a tiny, insignificant minority and are having no effect on larger society. And don’t talk about men not getting married, women have already solved that problem and don’t need men to reproduce anymore.

    Some of you think that there will be an economic reset and that will change things, and I used to think that too. But I don’t think so anymore. The state will simply enforce more privileges and take more money from men to give to women. Here’s an insight that rarely gets talked about wrt ObamaCare. Women are much greater users of healthcare throughout their lives – not just related to childbearing issues. They are healthcare gluttons, in fact. In many ways, ObamaCare is a massive wealth transfer from young healthy men to women. I met one such woman at the gym yesterday. She must have been late 60s and in the steam room she decided that the three men sitting there wanted to hear her entire story about cancer and bone marrow transplants and knee replacements and rods in her hips. She had no idea that while she was talking I was counting up the cost of her healthcare in my mind. Between the stem cells and the genetic engineering and surgeries and meds, we easily spent over 700k keeping this old biddy alive. Why? Why does she have an unlimited right to spend other people’s money to stay alive? That’s what medicare and medicaid and obamacare are about is giving everyone the right to unlimited healthcare that others pay for. It’s a rube’s game, a ponzi scheme that is unsustainable economically. There has to be a limit on benefits – and not death panels by the govt. Rather, private individuals and families and other private institutions need to work this out. But we won’t ever have a real conversation about that either because of hysterical, female “caring” dominating our public discourse. Compassion trumps everything in our FI dominated world, and me? I’ve stopped arguing.

    You can bet that if men were the majority of consumers of healthcare that it would be a huge issue and another symptom of patriarchy or men’s natures.

  31. mothers want their sons to have kids and to have regular access to the grandkids to help raise them

    this means you could marry as a virgin, have just enough sex to get your wife pregnant two or three times, then do whatever your wife requires, which might be provide lots, have no sex, and let your wife fuck alphas for sport

    (from a phone as usual, expect/accept typos)

  32. And the majority of men will not fight to change it – don’t we already know that? Alphas don’t care. Betas are sucked in. And really, RP guys are mostly a small number of either losers in the mating game who are highly intelligent or guys who have been torn up by divorce or custody issues or crazy women abusing them. We are a tiny, insignificant minority and are having no effect on larger society. 

    W respect, we are the majority of meb Glenn. My friebds are saying fuck it to marriage and we are young and attractive.
    Young girls, the only ones worth marrying are too immature and promiscuous. older girls (30) are too old.

    Women are in massive self induxed sufferinv and fuck theM. Promiscuity is not worth it, but tgey dont know until too late

  33. @osir

    “At this point I’m at a bit of a loss as to how I’ll do it. My son is three this month. I was raised beta by a single mom, like you mentioned, so I don’t have a good role model to go by and apply to my own son. I wish there were redpill resources out there for fathers as they relate to their children.”

    The example you set is the most important thing. If you consistently allow your wife to be unaccountable for her mistakes, and to take control of issues you should be controlling (despite her lackluster performance), your boy will grow to be submissive to women. If you never fail to hold her accountable when in his presence, and take control when necessary, or better yet, never relinquish control in the first place, he will grow to be vigilant with women and righteously dominant.

    My sons are now almost grown, and though my lack of advanced LTR game skills eventually led my marriage to the shitcan due to my steadfast adherence to the above concept, and constant conflict from an increasingly head strong woman over 19 years, I made the trade off between peace in the home and my determination that my sons would not take shit from women, and would be masters of their domains. This was ingrained in me through my own patriarchal upbringing, and it was subconsciously non-negotiable.

    To keep your marriage from failing, game your wife eternally.. To raise your son to be a man, NEVER allow your wife to just get away with emasculating you, OR HIM, spouting false feminist trope, or showing a complete lack of humility where it’s due etc.. when in his presence. Always rebuff that shit. Since you are obviously a young family, just use more finesse than I did over time, and try to do it without being an overt control freak, and you just might win on all fronts.. But if you concede, check out, or let her wear the pants, your son will be doomed to irreversible beta-dom.

  34. @ sfcton

    “lol. I missed BC’s post or I wouldn’t have made mine.”

    You should make yours anyway.

    The excellent information that BC provided will be understood more directly, and retained longer, when focused by your shorter but sharper comment.

  35. I think a lot gets made about the feminist indoctrination in university curricula in the manosphere, but I think this is really concern for closing the barn door after the horses have all gotten out.

    It’s fairly accepted knowledge that what a child learns in the first 5 years of their development tends to establish the basis for their character and personality development later in life. It’s during the formative years that boys are taught to “respect” girls by deferring to their natural superiority and unquestioned correctness of femaleness.

    When I read about the extent of #GamerGate or the next Male Space that’s been corrupted by a correcting feminine influence I have to go to the source. It’s not feminized universities so much as it’s a lifetime of Blue Pill conditioning that’s brought us to where we are.

  36. @rollo

    Completely agree.. I was exposed to some Gloria Steinem in college, in a ‘logic’ class, ironically. It was much later that I even realized what that was all really about, but I also realized I was impervious to it as a means of conditioning. I was already well armored by that time. For conditioned betas, you’re right the damage would have to have already been done.

  37. The example you set is the most important thing.

    Christian McQueen asked me in the interview how do I raise my daughter as a Red Pill Man. This is it. I live an example of the positive masculine decisiveness I’d expect her to look for in a man.

    At 16 she’s already broken up with her first boyfriend because he’s ambitionless and indecisive. It didn’t take more than 3 months. Yes, it sucked and she had the predictable emotional reactions, but to her credit she saw him as what he was and how she didn’t want it to go any further.

    That’s how I’m raising a Red Pill daughter.

  38. “So for this weekend’s discussion question I’ll ask the same thing popsugar did, how do (will) you approach gender expectations with your children?”

    For me, family was such a violent, unpleasant, soul-sapping affair that I’ve been generally uninterested in having children at all. Couple that with all the time spent as a beta of one form or another and here I find myself in my late 30s, no children, and never married. Strangely I’ve managed an N count of 19 to date, but most of that came within the past 5-7 years of finding RP truths on my own.

    My parents had an awful marriage. They married and had me by their early 20s, but dad soon became physically abusive. He was a beta that reacted to his lack of control and frame by moving straight to violent anger. Mom eventually divorced him when I became a victim of the violence (a rational reason for divorce, imo) but then she turned violent as well after moving 1000 miles from dad to get away from his death threats. I was beaten so badly I had to make excuses at school.

    I was beaten by bullies, turned down and ignored by girls constantly, suffered from clinically diagnosed manic depression, and eventually suffered a complete psychological meltdown at 24.

    Bottom line: I have no example at all of good parenting to go by, because for me building a good, strong man happened after 24. Finding a woman who would be a good mother is almost impossible. Nothing but whales, tattooed feminist harpies, overly entitled single mom’s, young party girls not interested in setting down yet (hellooooo AFBB), and psychotic head cases remain in most of the single pool. Genuinely attractive women are less than 10% of the modern female population as a whole. Far less than that are attractive enough to be worth keeping AND single.

    My problem isn’t how would I raise those children. I can’t even figure out how to find a woman worth giving my children to or why I should bother having them in the first place. Until I (and many other men like me that I know personally) can find women worth having children with and answer the question of why we should pump out more children for the feminist-consumerist-imperialist meat grinder, the question how to raise them doesn’t even matter to me personally.

    Not to discount the importance of the question to many guys here (indeed many should ask it of themselves) but I just thought my view might contribute additional perspective.

  39. “The mother is seeking to secure further resources – additional beta providers who are enslaved through guilt and other conditioning.”
    .
    Bingo! I heard a woman, the other day, speaking of her young adult children: “If Dottie and Dan get jobs, they’ll pull in together what I make, then I won’t have to work!” I’m sure, if confronted, she’d stress her words were in jest but it’s difficult not to see the strong desire/drive for provisioning.

  40. I’ve done three things to try to navigate the “how are you raising your son” question.

    First, we do things and establish expectations that he’s a boy and he’s good. I’ve introduced my wife to Free Range Kids, and I’ve taken pains, with her, to ensure he’s a vibrant, active kid. He’s 10 now – we encourage him to compete in sports, to play rough with his friends, and I take him with me camping and mountain biking and shooting. We’ll be learning to dive together in a couple years and it’s on the table that if he’s a straight A student, we’ll study for a small plane license together. He drives our boat already. He spontaneously explains that his pants are ripped at the knee, or he’s filthy after playing with friends, because “I’m a boy.” I am doing everything in my power to ensure he aims high in life, and has the confidence to try to grab the brass ring, whether it’s A’s in school, shooting for Eagle Scout, winning in sports, or doing well with girls. I also encourage him to speak up and seek leadership positions. The other kids recognize his leadership when he does and sometimes when he’s not seeking it, so he’s on track there. It helps that he’s a smart and fairly good looking young man, but he needs regular pep talks to understand he is capable of doing so much with himself; so much else in his life (culture, school) seems aimed at cutting him down and not teaching that lesson. I try to provide that.

    Second, I try to back my wife off on that “just be nice” talk. This is hard to do. When she says about girls, “always be a gentleman” I correct her with “when it’s appropriate. Women don’t always want a gentleman, son.” I talk to him too and encourage him – they start chasing girls early and I have told him “go after the prettiest one you see. Never be mean to somebody, male or female, who is ugly. They’re people to and you can be friends. But if you’re dating somebody, snag the prettiest girl you can get. There’s nothing wrong with that, and no, they aren’t out of reach.” My wife keeps telling him to find a nice little girl to “go steady with” whatever that means to 5th graders today. I will be telling him in a few years there aren’t any nice ones, not at this stage in life. I want him to be a young man with good manners, but nobody’s doormat and an understanding that good behavior is simply lost on most people, men or women. That may be a hard balance to achieve. Adults are such hypocritical pigs, most of them… this is so tough to explain to a 10 year old. We sometimes sit and pick apart the news, and I tell him to identify the stories he thinks are aimed at boosting ratings by scaring mommies, and he does and we have a laugh about it. I don’t want him to look down on women but I want him to understand how they are wired. Sometimes that part of the education isn’t pleasant for me.

    Third, he recently had his first ‘girlfriend.’ Nothing heavy, just skating together a little at a school outing, hanging out a bit. (Probably the cutest girl in his class. #Winning. Things went awry quickly as they tend to do. He was very bummed. I told him to look around, and notice that there are an awful lot of girls out there, and that if she didn’t fit and didn’t stick around, no big deal. He’d find plenty of other girls to be special friends with. My wife was *pisssssed* about that. I don’t care. He saw the light and is gaining confidence with girls, showing the same cocky attitude he has with other boys. Lately a seventh grade neighbor girl has become really fond of him… going to have to keep an eye on that. May need to have the talk on All Condoms All The Time sooner than I like. I have encouraged him that, if he wants to have kids, think about finding a good girl early on and settling down. Yeah, I’d like to see grandkids but I know a marriage to a 30 year old with baby rabies isn’t going to be as good, for him, as marrying a high school or college sweetheart who hasn’t polluted herself quite as badly as a cougar candidate would throughout her 20’s.

    I have no idea if I’m doing the right thing. I figure if I teach him to be a manly, fit and accomplished young man, to get him on the road to education/career success and to understand that women and the state are not necessarily looking out for his interests all the time, then I’ve probably done a decent job. When I manage to make it to church I say a prayer requesting guidance on this. There’s no operator’s manual for one of the more important jobs I will do.

  41. I don’t understand you Glenn. On the one hand you’re suggesting western society, especially the US will prevail but otoh you (correctly) rant about the ponzi scheme in the medicare system. It’s not just here where that game is being played and it cannot go on forever. That’s a fact.
    What we can’t be sure about is what comes after that and I’m not being too optimistic there anymore.

  42. I have 3 sons.
    1) teach by example: live an unapologetic masculine life.
    2) encourage masculinity: physical sports, rough play
    3) answer their questions about the FI with amused mastery
    4) connect your boys with the male tribe (and you may have to create your own)

  43. @ Heyjay – I don’t see the two as mutually exclusive. We will have a monetary and fiscal crisis within 15 years or less (could happen any moment, actually), we just need a precipitating asset crash to force a real run on the dollar. We are all set – we’ve got the bubble, so the crash is inevitable, it’s just a matter of time. And it will be far worse than anything the U.S. has ever seen (if anyone wants to dive in on this i have a strong finance/economics background).

    But then you have to ask what will come next? I won’t digress too much here but essentially I’ve concluded that we’ll get a more authoritarian and totalitarian state, not a more free one. Too many Americans buy into the empty promises of politicians. In a way, we’ve been screwed since women got the vote. It’s not a coincidence the march towards a huge and intrusive state begins when women became formally politically empowered in the U.S. Fyi, the left doesn’t work without women and most of it’s organizations and institutions are run and staffed by women now.

    The bottom line is that our economy can take the hit and still produce a reasonable amount of goods. Our standard of living could drop in half and we’d still be better off than most people in the world. The only X factor is what exogenous forces might choose to act at the moment of maximum vulnerability but I don’t see the real will on the right or left to actual revolution. Such a thing is quite a bloody affair and really, the hard core of either side can easily be crushed by our police/military. If perhaps the military took sides, then it might come out differently, but I think that the powers that be will seek to preserve the status quo and their role in it.

    And if things do fall apart utterly and anarchy does prevail, pray for us all cuz that will be far worse than democratic socialism, which is what we have now in the West. The left will likely use this event to consolidate the large political gains they’ve made over the past 100 years. They’ll modify or get rid of the constitution and restructure the republic to a much more unified, centrally governed state.

    The trend is towards statism. Men in manosphere or the libertarian online community become deluded because they screen out most of reality. Men aren’t pushing back in large numbers, and even those who are, well if you take any MGTOW and put a hottie in front of him, offering a BJ and boom, he’s back in the game. If women need men, they can come get them any time. All that’s happening is that the losers in the game have a voice now – those guys who aren’t getting married were going to not get married without the Red Pill, and are doing so without the Red Pill. Look at Japan – no Red Pill when their boys went to eat grass. It’s an attribution error to look at men’s behavior and attribute it to the Red Pill. Even if there were a million of us – which there are not – it would be a pimple on the ass of progress. We are not eve a significant minority. We are blip.

  44. I have two toddler boys and a girl at the moment. I’ve addressed gender roles so far by:

    Not tolerating crying. If I have to discipline one of my sons I let them cry for the initial shock period, but then I tell them to cry quietly. I don’t let them get away with temper tantrums or pouting, and I also try to minimize pain reactions. I’m going to train stocicsm and endurance as they grow.

    I also tell them not to “act like a girl” when they get upset. This always gets a reaction from my wife, but I ignore the shit test.

    They get lots of outside time, don’t go to daycare or socialize much with lots of feminized kids, and I let them experience the bumps and grinds of social situations where they see that if they are aggressive with other kids that there are consequences. I’m not going for bullies nor cowards, but a balance.

    They have also seen our farm animals being butchered on many occasions. They know what a gun does, and they are grasping the ideas of death and consequences of actions, aided in some ways by the death of a family pet by being run over in the road. I want them to know reality, and so far they handle it pretty well. Our oldest isn’t four yet, so I think I’ve got a good start.

    I’ve disallowed smartphones, iPads, and televisions in the house. They watch youtube or online stuff, and I try to weed out the actively SJW shows, and I encouraged building with legos, or other constructive toys.

    I’m going to have some complexity with my daughter, but if a Dora doll appeared in the house I’d happily use it for target practice. Some crap for girls should not be tolerated.

  45. In the early days of absorbing the red pill, the message I heard about fathers and daughters was that it was the father’s job to prepare his daughter for the most important decision she’ll ever make: who she’ll pick for her husband. And how was he supposed to do that? By modeling for her how a man looks and acts, the father sets the stage for what she should be looking for. Best to start that early so she bonds to her father.

    Looking at this from the point of a man looking for a wife: her relationship with her father is critical to his appraisal of her prospects. There was a discussion of that over at Dalrock recently.

  46. Why do women raise boys to be beta? Because boys are wild and women want everything peaceful, easy, and stress free, everything young boys are not. They want to coast through motherhood so they can get back to hypergamy.

    What to teach your son:
    1. Shit mommy says they can’t have – give it to them when she’s not looking. Tell your son that us men have to stick together and do stuff women don’t like sometimes.
    2. Teach your son how to tease.
    3. Teach your son how to be tough.

  47. I can’t leave it alone. When my daughter was 16, people would comment on how great and unusual our relationship was. While she was already just starting to pull away, I was still a large factor in her life. If anyone told me then that we wouldn’t be talking 10 years later I would have laughed at you. And most anyone who knew us would have laughed at the concept. My friends and family described me as doting on her.

    I taught her to ski and had her doing black diamond runs by age 7. We took up rock climbing together and enjoyed it for a decade. I had a big effect on her life at certain points when she was going off course by being the only tough person, and she seemed to appreciate it at the time. It certainly worked, she’s 26 and already crushing it in her second career, no shit.

    I was also a pretty dominant and successful with women in some real ways. Women came in and out of my life and I never hid it from my daughter. She would only meet some of them, but you didn’t need to be my fiance to meet my daughter. And yes, I had sleep over friends with her at my place. I was very successful financially spoiled her in what I thought were helpful ways. She got into photography? Boom, she got a 35 mm film and digital Canon cameras, a matching set for Christmas. I was rolling in dough and she always traveled and had a computer from the age of 7. My wife and I split up when she was 4 but we lived in the same town till she was in 6th grade, and up until then we were as thick as thieves, and I was heavily involved in her life. We went on lots of adventures and did a lot of outdoor stuff, hiking and camping and the beach etc.

    My point? I don’t want to be reacting out of being defensive. My life is what it is, but I can remember that feeling of “it’s different with my daughter”. The world took her and did something to her. The permissiveness, the license granted to young, smart, beautiful, educated and successful woman today is mindboggling. It’s like the whole world is a cheering section for them.

    I simply was no longer playing my alpha male, daddy warbucks part. I lost my job, I got sick, I couldn’t find work after 2008 for a long time. It was quite a tough time. I lost my alpha status to her and she scraped me off like a bad fucking habit. Just like a wife would – two of my sisters who I’d been a father figure to piled on too – this is what brought me to the Red Pill.

    You see, I couldn’t process it. I went around to people who knew me and my daughter, I saw a psychologist finally – and I got answers, but they were hard to hear. In my case, it has a lot to do with her mother who undermined me in ways I ignored for way too long, I was in denial. The thought of not being close to my daughter was just not conceivable to me.

    And I paid all my child support and then some. 81k towards her college – wish I could have done more. Spent a ton on her directly. Was always there with money for any school thing, paid for healthcare, summer camp – I still provided while I was being replaced. They basically conned me into believing that I was still my daughter’s father figure for about 7-8 years to keep me docile and paying.

    It’s instructive how it all went sideways. It actually started before I got sick, when my daughter was going off to college and her mom informed me that not only did she expect me to pay for all of it (a responsibility I took on to the best of my ability), she also wanted me to continue to pay her $1,200 per month in child support. My lawyer sorted her out before we went to court – as the court would have had her paying half the college costs and of course no child support.

    My ex went crazy over this. And I paid for school, and stopped paying child support – after 14.5 years of making every one of them – and within 5 months, the ex and her husband defaulted on their home mortgage and were going bankrupt – and then the marriage ended with her stepdad running off to Phoenix.

    The loss of the home was blamed on me by the ex. Her entire narrative became, “Men have ruined my life.” And I guess at that point, my daughter was ready to take the first steps away from me, but I kept just being in denial. Even though I would try and “fix” it, I knew what was happening but didn’t understand it.

    It all came to a head two years ago at Thanksgiving in an ugly verbal brawl in which I snapped, finally, after being shit on for years by her. And since I called her on her shit, she just split. And then earlier this year – at the age of 26, told me over the phone that I had abused her as a child. Me – a victim of actual horrendous child abuse. She accused me of that.

    Now, get this. In 26 years, not a single human being on this planet had ever once uttered the word “abuse” to describe my relationship with my daughter. Not my daughter, not her Mom, not all the friends of hers that used to sleep over my house – I was trusted in the community as a “cool Dad” and my friend’s daughters parents rightfully felt their kids were safe with me. I took two of them away on vacation with me one year, and one several other times. No family member, no friend, no stranger, no teacher, nobody ever once accused me of being abusive to my daughter. To boot, I’m a trusted father type in my family as I had a big hand in raising my sister from the time she was born as my mom died in childbirth with her, and due to my Dad being a loser, I was a father figure to her. I also am just good with kids and it’s known in my family. I’m so good with babies that I helped one of my sisters out with her second born as a newborn, staying with her for 8 weeks. I was and still am a trusted person in my family when it comes to kids – its something I cultivated as I hated my abuse so much. It may be a compensating mechanism, but it is what it is. I was really, really good to my daughter.

    But now, at 26, she can just say that shit to me? I imagine it felt a lot like what a false child abuse allegation feels like from an ex-wife. I mean, I could not believe she’d say that to me – she’d lost her mind with me. Between Mom and the stepdad bolting, and well, dad’s going broke (after 20 years of being a cash fountain) and he has put on some weight, and really he’s just not that cool anymore. He seems to have gone a little bonkers and is snappy sometimes (I was suffering from an acute anxiety disorder).

    I’m a lot better now. But here’s the thing. I don’t care anymore. The only thing that got me through this was seeing how a world and culture informed by FI could make this possible. It explained what happened. I was also a typical guy who valued himself on being a provider and when this all came to pass, I experienced an identity crisis like no other. My world was rocked – it’s what brought me to the Red Pill. I’ve stopped valuing myself as a provider and a Dad and a husband – and finding myself wanting. I don’t care anymore what the fucking world thinks of me, including my daughter. I’m now a selfish prick, doing only what pleases me for my purposes, not to serve other’s needs anymore. I have spit the fucking bit out utterly and I don’t think it will ever go back in my mouth.

    But I was much like many of you once upon a time. I don’t wish what happened to me on any one of you. But now you can’t say you weren’t warned that it can happen. Daughters are women. Don’t let them see you vulnerable. And non-custodial Dads are fucked no matter what they do, particularly when the ex re-marries.

  48. Rollo, that Breitbart article had me seeing red! Funny thing is, with my 2 sons, both in their twenties, I do not see this amongst their groups. Though possibly because they are both in LTR’s, so tend to hang with the same type of people.

    I have dropped a small sampling of masculine thought on them recently, and have been surprised by their reactions. They tend to naturally be leaders, so thought some of the things I was saying would taken in with a sly glance. Nope, though they have some natural Alphalpha tendencies, as you write in this column, they basically called me out on my misogynist views!

    TFF!

    I may have to get them a copy of your book for Christmas!

  49. Virtually all girls are with the program no later than first grade. Only the psychologically toughest boys last as long as third grade before they succumb.

    The system is designed that way, by generations of pyschologists, each refining the work of the previous generations. It is designed with the knowledge that parents will resist the system, and thus is designed to subvert that resistence. The educational system did not arise by happenstance. It was designed. There is no ‘failure of the schools.’ They are producing the planned result.

    You have your kids until they are 5, maybe, if you keep them out of daycare. Even then they are still enveloped in a larger environment which is already feeding them the messages.

    Everything after grade school is just digging the hole wider and deeper. The hole itself has already been dug.

  50. “If women need men, they can come get them any time.”

    If women need betas, they can. Feminism’s best joke in my opinion has been the one played on heterosexual women that prioritized school, career, and “exploring her sexuality” over finding a good man while her SMV was high. “Don’t worry sweetheart, there’s plenty of time. You’ll find an amazing man waiting for you when you’re done.”

    No, you won’t. Amazing men want what they regard as amazing women. A jaded, bitchy, career-focused feminist who expects a guy to just ignore younger, hotter women for her once she’s past the wall is not amazing. She’s entitled, typical, and uninteresting to them in every way. All that’s left is betas, and she wasn’t promised a beta. She’s a princess. She was promised a prince. A beta is not a prince. A beta, as we all know from firsthand experience, can’t even be called a man.

    Make no mistake that the joke is on the women here. There are no “men” to be had for post-Wall spinsters. Only thirsty betas.

  51. What do Rollo and the readers think is an age where boys can read and understand RM?
    I got quite a few mothers both from my further family and from friends or affairs wanting me to spend time and talk to their sons as a better role-model than their dads. I want to help them, but I can’t stand child raising and stuff. From what age do you think I could point them here?

  52. I believe mothers have a very good guess on whether or not their son is going to be alpha by the start of his childhood. They probably either know this by extension of the father (if he was an alpha too) or if her son looks like he has the potential to be an alpha. When they know their kid has the potential to pull, they won’t purposely push down too many blue pills (beta shit) down his throat.

    Women do have a propensity to dispense lies to all men but towards alphas, they are way more forgiving. To betas, they are way more ruthless in this shit testing.

    For as long as I could remember, my mother and aunts always gave me good support (my father and uncles did too but for the sake of this post, I’ll focus more on the women). They did a lot to build up my initial self-esteem with girls by calling me a handsome boy and telling me that I would wind up to be a heartbreaker (heh, they were right).

    I remember being very young (I can’t recall my age here) and they were rooting me on at a party to dance with a girl. This was my first time ever dancing with a girl and while I can’t remember my initial feeling, their presence really did help in my later success with women (aside from girls themselves being open to my advances).

    While “naturals” with women are made, I have no doubt that they’re propensity to be one is born as well. A boy’s first success with a girl is so important for his development with the opposite sex. Whether his first experience with the opposite sex ends in success or rejection, the result will imprint on him for years to come. Before any conscious acknowledgement of game came about, how else do you think men got laid? Sure, some men went out and put in the effort by just saying something but those who had “it” got it very early in childhood.

    While fathers might be able to teach their sons to be more game aware (although I wouldn’t exactly know how to go about this for a child), it still won’t dissuade what girls will actually think of him.

    @Glenn:
    I really like your comments on just how limited a parent’s influence is over their child. A parent can only do so much before his peers (and what they think of him) influence him as well.

    Back in middle school, I remember how everyone treated a new kid. If he looked weak or if something was off about him, kids were very cruel to him. I remember once a group of kids threw some kids lunch tray and poured milk over him. I laughed at the whole situation but looking back now, I can’t help but think how detrimental this single experience must have been for him.

    I recall some speaker (I think it was Jordan Belfort) and he had the same line of thinking as Glenn. Someone asked him what would his kids think of him if they knew he did drugs and banged hookers. He said something along the lines of, “While I can tell my kids not to do these things, I can’t prevent them completely from trying them. There fiends will influence them in ways I can’t so it really is up to them to decide.”

  53. @lh: ” . . . I can’t stand child raising . . .”

    Then don’t raise them. They aren’t yours to raise in the first place and they know that.

    So what do you do? You talk to them as men. Less developed and experienced men, to be sure, but men nonetheless.

    At what age can you do this? They’ll let you know themselves by their response. They will appreciate the hell out of it when they are ready. It will likely happen at a much younger age than you might expect.

  54. Great set of comments! Got me to thinking about how my mom would say she was just trying to do her best. That my well being was always her first interest. It would be nice if it were only true. But alas it wasn’t. It was bullshit. Self centered and self serving is a more apt description of her. Somehow I knew it deep inside myself. I was always repulsed by how much she wanted to be in the limelight whenever I was successful at something. It was my good fortune to have a dad who, though beta in many ways, was always vocal about the shit testing and other crap going on. ‘Don’t mollycoddle the boy!’ are words that still ring in my mind along with ‘Shake it off’ after a fast grounder caught me in the knee. All this would be decried by modern feminists as macho garbage but I know without a doubt his lessons have served me well.

    funoldguy

  55. @lh – I have started introducing Red Pill sites to my friends’ younger brothers and cousins around the age of 13-14. Sometimes even while they are still virgins and doing their first steps trying to attract some women. They will likely focus on Game first, but some main perceptions regarding women will start to seep through as well. When talking to them they were a bit astonished first, but then tried to apply some concepts very quickly – judging women by their actions – not words, being more masculine, being more dominant, teasing girls instead of complimenting, Alpha Beta concepts etc. Even young teenagers start to catch onto the mechanics pretty fast.

    The good thing about the Blue Pill is that it does not hammer them with a fixed set of inter-gender rules of how to behave. The propaganda seeps in over the years. A Red Pill awakening on the other hand can be done over an afternoon with older Alphas telling a young man that everything he heard until now in media, school and from girls is wrong. He starts reading, because he is a horny little bugger and wants to be more attractive to girls. Pretty soon he finds that the concepts of Game work and off he is on his way to be a Game-aware eternally self-improving Alpha.

  56. @Glenn
    I am fascinated by your story, as well as saddened. You’re right, the amount of control you have over your kids is relatively small, and it just wanes from birth. Regarding daughters, your concept of “My Daughter Is Not Like That” deserves some thought. From what I understand, you did so many things right, but it still went down the drain. What would you have done differently from a red pill mindset? I’m genuinely interested.

    @Zelcorpion
    That’s what I’ve imagined as the best-case scenario.

  57. Damn @Glenn I just stepped into your shoes from 20 years ago.

    ur scarin’ the shit outta me.

    Coincidentally, bitch sued me to throw out our divorce and court was yesterday. I lost, now we gotta divorce again. She’s just going to find out there’s no gain in what she’s doing, but whatev. I had conceded custody of our daughter, but I’ve been considering going after her with everything I got, because I got some pretty good shit on my wife. I’d say I have a better shot than most, but definitely not a sure thing and it would cost me everything, pretty much. It’s agonizing. Now I read your post, and I’m like, holy shit.. is that what I want the next 20 years of my life to look like?

  58. @funoldguy

    If your mom was like mine then her best interest was your best interest. There would never be any divergence allowed between your interests. in my case when our interests diverged it was my interest that deferred to hers. This is how I learned about the great con of opportunistic love.

  59. ” So for this weekend’s discussion question I’ll ask the same thing popsugar did, how do (will) you approach gender expectations with your children? ”

    The thing Im doing is teaaching my boy all the “man skills” that I have. Carpentry, fixing cars, preparing and sending invoices, reconciling bank accounts, developing websites, playing team sports, carving steaks, surfing, canoeing, camping, working out with wieghts etc.

    The one thing the FI cant take away from you is your skills and your physical strength. It will take your money, time, energy, children, EVERYTHING away from you IF YOU LET IT.

    You cant be “emotional” when your under a car fixing the tranny or hanging a new door.

    You cant be beta and prepare a safe secure campsite at the same time.

    You HAVE to lead if you are the coach of a kids sports team.

    The FI will give your boys NONE of these things.

  60. Opie: “How can you hate women so much when your mom is a woman?”

    Patrice: “My mom is not a woman, she’s my mother; but she was a woman to some other man.”

  61. It’s very important for modern, 21st century mothers and teachers to drill into their boys that all men are potential molesters and rapists. This way, when they grow up to be men themselves, they will be docile, easily manipulated, and self-loathing. Just the way we want ’em.

  62. Of course I do all these things with my son AFTER I have spent 3 days a week working to pay income taxes to the FI Government, its “welfare” recipents and its debts

  63. I have four kids. My boys cut the grass when they were in second grade. The neighbors were appalled. A couple weeks later their fifth graders were cutting the grass. My daughters cut the grass in second grade. In hind site I should have had my girls cooking dinner. Sexist I know, but what makes a good wife? My 8 year old son built a picnic table with me, circular saw and all. My wife freaked out that he would cut a finger off. Ten years later he started a lawn care business, hired 3 buddies and made $12,000 in one summer.

    I don’t know if my kids love me but I know they respect me.

    There is no person in a childs life as important as their Dad. No one. Everything they are or will be is a result of their father. I don’t understand some of the post about girls. You are the MAN to your girls. They bitch and they whine but at the end of the day they still listen.

    One of the greatest joys of a mans life is seeing his children grow up to be normal, well adjusted reflections of yourself.

  64. If you want to know a Feminist’s position on anything you only need to apply the question “Would a man want it?”, and to choose the opposite. This explains their insane positions against the male pill and against prostitution(Female freed of patriarchy, extra slutty, making alot of money) or say defense of that woman who killed her three children. Thats why I believe Feminism really is just a giant shit test. Try it yourself on whatever topic. One key thing to this is that they are against men more than they are for women, thats why youll see them occasionally throw a woman or class of women under the bus just to harm a man.

  65. ALL males are less than what we were put here to be. I fully believe that now. (fathers, siblings, grandfathers, uncles, cousins, friends.)

    So, how could any of us have possibly learned otherwise?

    One thing I’ve been pondering lately is this: joy. I can count on my two hands how many individuals I’ve encountered in my life who had joy in their hearts, which radiated out through their eyes. (I always envied them.)

    I want that.

    I’m fully aware of how evil are the power structures in this world (10x more evil than is EVER discussed in the manosphere, though Cernovich touches upon it from time to time), of which, feminism isn’t even one tentacle, but merely a tiny little sucker.

    JOY. I want me some of that. I’ve known happiness. I’ve known good times. I’ve known many awesome friends and incredible lovers. But since becoming an adult, it seems that I’ve left behind the ability to know joy. I remember when I was a kid; I did know joy.

    Today, I encountered something that shook me to my core… all the pain of my adult life, with a tiny bit of joy mixed in, for the first time in a very long time (joy). I have no idea what will come of it, but I’m going to pursue it.

    See, in my adult life, I have always been a defender of the downtrodden, but damn, that role takes a serious toll on one’s spirit… a toxic, caustic toll.

    I think that what I am finally learning is that fighting in defense of a thing, can never be that thing. It must first reside inside of me—not intellectually—but spiritually, before I can even begin to make it available to others whom I so dearly care about, or even to you guys, the manosphere.

    So, yeah, I’m going to surrender to it, and see where it takes me. (I surrender to nothing, but I’m going to surrender to this.) If it leads me to some gold at the end of the rainbow, I’ll bring it back here and share it with you all (to brutalize it, as you see fit). If it turns out to be a bunch of nonsense, I’ll bring that back also (sadly).

    I took the ride on the mansophere, but it never really led me to any place substantially beneficial to my own life. (I also saw the damage it inflicts, first hand.) I learned some harsh truths, no doubt, truths that will be with me to the end of my days. But it really didn’t ENHANCE my life at all. Change it? Yes, for sure. Alter my relationships with the opposite sex and others? Yes, it did that also. Am I forever thankful for that? Absolutely. But the manosphere did NOT bring fulfillment to my life. I have found that ‘more pussy’ and better relationships with quality pussy have given me one measure more of what I want out of this precious life, but that neither have brought me even anywhere close to what I ultimately want out of this given life.

    I care about all of you guys, so I’m not sure that I could ever entirely leave this place (much to my chagrin). However, I am going to now explore a side path, led by some males who I instantly respected (instantly = within an hour and a half) and see what it has to offer. Likely, I’ll report back here, as genteelly as possible.

    Must say, I’m stoked to see where this goes. To the younger readers, pussy isn’t everything. There are much higher callings in life—and, in fact, we owe the results of the pursuit of those higher callings to our female folk and children and legacy.

    Again, not ‘going’ anywhere. Just felt compelled to share this new development with the community. See, I truly believe that we are here for a greater reason, and that learning the truth of intersexual relationships is a part of that—but only a part, not the whole shebang.

    However, WTF do I know? I could share with you all the ways to master intersexual relationships (I’ve done it, many times over), but at the end of the day, after much personal experience, I just don’t think that it matters all that much. I happen to believe that we are here for a higher purpose, and that learning to faithfully lead our females and children is only one small part of that… a crucial part, not to be dismissed.

    I happen to believe that fulfilling our purpose/destiny is the ultimate expenditure of our energy. I, for one, feel like I am shirking my duties should I just subordinate that to lesser callings (pussy). I love females, and always will, but that is only like 1/10 of the reason I was put here.

    I intend only to shift my energy ever so slightly. I was never much of a bastard to begin with, but, yes, I did tip toe down that path far enough to realize that it was NOTHING that I wanted in MY life. I would far rather be a source of positive energy and upliftment for the other beings in my life, cheesy as that may sound.

    Kind of a weird message to post in the manosphere, right? But I’m going to check out this path, and see where it leads.

    Best to all of you (I share your world, after all). I’ll be around, at least for the foreseeable future.

    Peace.

  66. @ Simon – Great question and since I’m really only just now getting used to Red Pill living, it’s not an easy one to answer. What would I have done different, with respect to my daughter?

    I would not have taken what she did so personally. I was devastated by her pulling away from me because my ego was so invested in seeing myself as a “good father”. I would have not taken her insults so seriously. When women act out now, I just laugh. I should have realized she was just being a little cunt and let her cool off.

    Also, don’t get the impression that I did everything right – I’m sure I did not. Being a parent is the hardest thing I ever did and I brought all my baggage to it. But I did my level best and always chose to do the right thing for her, often sacrificing my own happiness or convenience. And I never abused her, ever. I loved her with all my heart in a way I never loved anyone else in my life. Despite that, and the 400k i spent raising her – she tells me that she doesn’t have an obligation to even treat me with respect. She literally told me that, that she has no obligation to me. I was nicer to my father – and he gave me next to nothing and was a terroristic abuser of epic proportions.

    There are so many things I should have done differently in my marriage that I don’t know where to begin. First would be maintaining frame and I guess second would be to induce a hell of a lot more dread. I also would have attended to my appearance better as I married a woman who was a hard 9 and didn’t realize the competition continued after we were married. I literally thought “she’s mine” – I was such a fucking schmuck.

    You guys have to get that I was a traditional guy who wanted family and the whole shooting match. I’ve only now begun to live purely for my own purposes. Sometimes that’s terrifying but I like being a selfish prick so much more than being a plow horse for some bitch. I can’t imagine going back to that worldview now.

  67. @BC re Briffaults Law, from http://xsplat.wordpress.com/2013/05/28/how-to-keep-a-woman-in-aquisitive-mode/

    People have positive emotions to you in relation to the value that you add to their life. So with a girl her emotions will be swayed in a positive direction the more you add value in any domain, such as;
    1) Financial – if she is financially dependent on you that hand over her quality of life will translate into her loving you more
    2) Social – if you and your social circle are a main part of her social life that hand over her quality of life will translate into her loving you more.
    3) Sexual – if you fuck her the way no man ever has and likely no man ever will ever again, bringing her to emotional and sexual depths and heights beyond compare regularly, then that hand over her quality of life will translate into her loving you more
    4) Your status – if your status is well above all her other suitors, because you exhibit many status markers, such as wealth, fitness, social circle leadership, business leadership, community connections, and so on, then you will have hand over her future quality of life, because if she lost you she would lose her close connection and even self-identity with your status position.
    5) Romantic – if you manipulate the moods in your shared space, injecting some dramas but keeping the general tone warm, positive and sexual, then she will associate all positive emotions with you. This will give you hand over her, as she will fear losing you, the focus of her good life.

  68. Humans need relationships in one way or another. I think it’s important not to lose sight of that, based on my own experience of having lost sight of that, and I think it’s having a majorly negative impact on my quality of life. Not sure what to do about this anymore.

    I don’t remember my parents touching me when I was growing up. It was like I didn’t exist. I could see myself never talking to either of them, or my sister, for the rest of my life, and that doesn’t bother me at all. I’m not angry at them and I don’t hold anything against them. There just isn’t any viable relationship there. The seed was planted but never watered.

    I saw some/a lot of “Alpha” in my dad from a distance. Just how he acted with my mom. But he never directly taught me anything or spent time with me. If I was upset or crying about something he would call me a crybaby or just say “What do you want me to do about it? Get lost.”

    I’d see him on the couch when he got home from work or working on something in the garage or in his workshop in the house, but he never showed me how to do anything, and when I’d ask he’d just tell me to go away. My mom didn’t corrupt me by turning me blue pill because she just ignored me too. They didn’t instill any bad ideas, but they didn’t instill any positive ones either — nothing. I was left to my own devices.

    I’m probably better off than someone who was brought up in a FI household. My parents were extremely conservative and I’d always see my dad yelling at the news or saying something about how fucking stupid and hypocritical liberals were, feminism was the most retarded thing in the world, a bunch of fucking morons, he couldn’t believe how stupid people were, etc. — so at least I absorbed that much. It didn’t help me make any friends at school but I learned from an early age to be very skeptical of people that had their heads lost in idealism.

    It’s a shame he never showed me anything too, because he was the best out of anyone I’ve ever met. He did all the plumbing and electrical work in the house, put all the carpets/tiles/doors/everything in, windows, crown molding — just everything. And it looked professional. People were always amazed when they’d see what he did. And always maintained all the cars, knew how to replace brake lines, transmissions. It was just absolutely amazing. Garage and workshop full of every kind of tool you could think of, but he never showed me how to use any of them. He’d either tell me I was bothering him and to go away or wouldn’t respond to me when I asked him what he was doing, or how to do it.

    But I knew he could do just about anything and he’d constantly be helping neighbors out with work, just because he liked it. And not a day in my life went by where I didn’t see him working on something. Cutting tiles with a wet saw, laying that goopy stuff down that the tiles go on, wiring new lights with 3 way switches in all over the house, changing the brake pads or brake lines, replacing the clutch in our old truck, building cabinets and tables, etc. He just didn’t want me around and would get annoyed/angry if I stayed near him for too long so again, I didn’t get to learn much of anything.

    The idea of never getting married and on top of that, never getting into a long-term relationship, or even any kind of committed relationship — is difficult for me.

    I still can’t even get any one night stands, and the idea that healthy long-term relationships don’t even exist bothers me.

    What’s the point of even trying when a long-term relationship isn’t even in the cards? If it isn’t a viable option? And same with having kids.

    I’m wondering if the FI has caused irreparable damage to the nuclear family. Just the whole concept and existence of it. Humans are hard wired for relationships and interaction.

    I’m a goal-oriented guy. When I put effort into building skills, it’s with a greater purpose in mind. Where am I taking this skill? What am I going to do with it? What am I aiming for?

    Without any conceivable long-term goals for relationships…..I can’t conceive of a point. If it isn’t working towards some greater end, what’s the point?

    Why would you work out and spend a lot of time putting effort into that if it didn’t develop your muscles or improve your health? If it was just something to do, but didn’t have any greater purpose or long-term benefits or results?

    My sister….that was some red pill awareness too. It’s unbelievable how uninvolved she’s been in my life and how she’s literally done absolutely nothing to reach out to me. She’s known for years that I’ve been struggling to find people to hang out with, and going through a lot of serious problems, while she has DOZENS of friends and is constantly going out to parties, things with all different people from what I hear, has never been without a boyfriend, etc. Meanwhile I’m going through hell and she never even picks up the phone if I ever try to call her. I just gave up after a while.

    Her and my mom bonded. My dad never really had a connection with her at all, same with me. So my mom and her will do stuff all the time. My dad and me are outliers, although my dad has my mom, although he isn’t ‘lovey dovey’ with her. She’s his servant, more or less. So at least I had that model to look at. He doesn’t have friends outside of work, prefers to spend all his time alone.

    If I was going to raise a kid I woudn’t raise him to adapt to being socially isolated. I’d try to build his confidence up by teaching him real life skills — an actual reason to be confident. And try to get him involved in sports or something, and to not be afraid to be dominant. Know that you’re good — don’t have to show off or rub it in people’s faces, but never apologize or feel bad for being better than other people at something. And also don’t beat yourself up if other people are better than you in other areas. Know your strengths and capitalize on them — know your weaknesses and hide them from people, but if anyone ever finds out about something, play it off like it isn’t a big deal or that it doesn’t bother you. Cool, calm and collected, always in control of yourself.

    I wasn’t taught how to do anything. Like, literally anything. And that has damaged me in a lot of ways. Including doing absolutely nothing to get me involved with other kids in any way — I just never learned. Here I am as an adult, never been in a relationship, and just generally have no clue how to socially function in the world in a way that makes me feel good. There’s always this nagging sense that I don’t belong on this planet and that my “tribe” doesn’t exist — I never even had one in the first place.

    Although because of that I’ve had to learn how to regulate my emotions on my own, and I also taught myself how to cut my own hair. I also taught myself how to play guitar and also how to work out on my own and became my own personal trainer and dietitian after studying nutrition on my own for years.

    I didn’t learn what my dad knew how to do, but in a way I picked up all these things from him: no one was there to guide me or show me how to do anything or encourage me, so I learned to be more self-motivated and I learned how to have the discipline to develop skills without the praise or recognition of other people — just doing it purely out of my own interest, like what my dad did with all the things he knew how to do. He taught himself everything he knew about electrical work, plumbing, carpentry, woodworking, automotive work, and everything else. No one showed him how to do any of that stuff.

    I doubt I’ll ever have kids. But for those that do, it’s definitely important to take note of what you can do to raise them well. It’s definitely important to have a strong masculine role model to look up to. Even though my dad barely recognized that I existed, I STILL learned by example, just because he was a strong, independent and intelligent guy that didn’t take shit from anyone. That was what I saw. So just by being who he was, I learned a lot.

    Most of the interaction we DID have involved him verbally or physically abusing me, but even with that….I feel like part of my ability to let go of the emotions attached to those memories is, ironically, a result of how I was raised. To be independent — nobody cares about your feelings, so take care of them yourself. You’re not going to get anything out of being depressed or angry except shit from other people, either getting made fun of or beat up —

    — so you don’t have to feel that way if you don’t want to.

    I don’t know, man. I could be completely messed up for all I know. For most parents (not abusive/crazy, in a reasonably functional family), keeping Red Pill truths in mind is important. The man should lead in the relationship and be a strong figurehead. Children learn a lot through observation.

    Just like focusing on yourself and improving yourself is the best way to get women and keep them (or so I hear), it’s probably the best way to raise kids too. If you try to be the best version of yourself that you can be, this will inevitably leak out to your kids.

    However, it’s important that guys unplug and re-define themselves in a red pill context before they try to be the ‘best verisons of themselves.’

    With the men in today’s climate, the ‘best version’ of themselves could involve wearing a Disney princess dress and telling their sons it’s okay for them to grow up to be ballerinas if that’s what they really want in life.

    Shudder.

  69. My oldest and closest friend (Max from Australia) and I discuss this topic a lot. I’m very grateful that I have another RP aware guy I can regularly talk to. We both unplugged about 12 months ago and our kids are almost the same ages; girls 14 (both very attractive) and my boy is 9.

    I’ve been separated nearly 3 years and was in a lucky and unique position to have been the primary carer up until 6 months ago, however by mutual decision they are now with their mother and I have them every second weekend, but with open access. That is, there is no formal parental arrangements and the ex is happy to have me see them whenever I want….so again…very lucky. So far so good, but I’m well aware that could all change without warning and for no reason other than her being female.

    Re the boy – my initial thoughts were to let things just unfold till late teens and unplug him after his first female “trauma”. I thought that then would be the best time to awaken him and show him the RP truths – and give him the “ah ha” moment we all had. Otherwise, without this trauma RP might seem so alien that he may choose to remain blue blue.

    My thoughts on this have now very much changed. I now have a clearer understanding of the FI and it’s influence within society, Government, MSM and the education system.

    When I’m with him now, I am always talking up positive masculinity and trying to pump up his self worth and self esteem. He now plays soccer in a team and is bonding with other boys much better. I openly correct anything he sees or hears regarding the FI and explain (in 9 year old terms) how this is wrong and how it should be. I dragged him to the gym to let him watch me lift weights and to see what its like in a gym with other guys lifting. He knows I trained for, and won my first heavyweight boxing match. I took out all my trophies and proudly display them in my cabinet and give him my sporting history of success (and some failures). I don’t take shit from anyone around him; especially his mother, sister or anyone for that matter. I always tell him to stand up for himself. I’m also telling him to follow his dream and he can do whatever he wants with his life, and that he will face challenges (and resistance from the FI) and sometimes be beaten, but to get up again. I’d like him to learn a trade so he will rarely, if ever, be unemployed.

    I will give him my copy of RM at age 14-15.

    At the moment he wants to be a pro soccer player – I will both encourage and support it to the best of my ability.

    Re 14 year old daughter – We have a fairly good relationship now. We have a lot of fun when we are together. Unfortunately I was blue pill till she was 12 so I have to undo a lot of damage. She was my princess and was on a pedestal. I spoiled her and always gave in to what she wanted. I rarely said no. I was always trying to keep her happy.

    It must have been a huge shock to her after I swallowed the red pill. Boom! Literally overnight I used ‘amused mastery’ (thanks Rollo), I tease her, I neg her, I say no to her, I call her out on her game, I don’t take her side as much now when she argues with her brother, I don’t take shit from anyone and remain steadfast in my masculinity around her…..and guess what? She loooves it. We are closer now then ever before. She’s always after my attention; grabbing me, hits me, wrestles with me etc and, we talk a lot more about what is going on in her teen ‘girl world’ and it’s definitely made us closer.

    But…..I know what lies just around the corner. Whilst she has not once ever mentioned boys or boyfriends (and I do ask in a playful way) I know it will happen and happen soon. She still hasn’t had her first period yet. I’m glad she is sensible, level headed, trustworthy and understands right from wrong. She is way ahead of her peers in this regard.

    I’m not exactly sure if this is the right course of action, but I know I can’t stop the impending flood of guys that will be interested in her. Nor could I, or would I, try to stop her having sex in her teens. She is already 5’7″ and easily model material. So, all I can demonstrate is my own positive masculinity and hope that she;

    a) doesn’t drink alcohol to excess, if at all
    b) understands that sleeping around lowers her value to Men
    c) understands that she can’t ‘have it all’ like the feminists are selling
    d) always uses condoms – no exceptions ever
    e) understands she can tell me anything

    as for the other things, I’m open to suggestions.

  70. In Florida, proposals about having more same sex class rooms in public schools are being considered as an experiment. A pilot project.
    I would be skeptical that it would be a separation for easier indoctrination. Not a systemic thing. But since most teachers are women, the teachers would use it that way.
    But to to bring up that same sex classrooms as beneficial, especially since it seems the concern is really for girls doing well and not that boys may do better, is admitting to things being unequal.

  71. P.S. Don’t like the commercial with Chris Carter. Heard he wasn’t well liked around the league.

  72. @Heyjey,

    If we imply that 20% of the male population be alpha by default and you can’t change anything about it, women have to make sure all other men are thirsty beta providers awaiting to fulfill their part i.e. provisioning.

    yes, women conspire to create the beta class of men.

    It biologically hard wired into women to band together as a hive mind borg and create and maintain a caste system. This is not any artifact of modernity, or western modernity in particular.

    It is instinctual and timeless and hard wired.

    I wrote about that in 2012 “Women willfully create the beta class of men, and willfully keep them in the dark about there even being another class, and work hard to deny class mobility. By willful I don’t mean consciously – I mean willfully; they make a co-ordinated concerted effort to do so, and strongly oppose any countermeasures. “

  73. @xsplat,

    “People have positive emotions to you in relation to the value that you add to their life”
    ***All true and good, my friend, very true, *TOO* true: but what about your OWN individual positive emotions that are inner-generated? What happens when external beings no longer perceive you as “value-add” to their life? What then?

    “So with a girl her emotions will be swayed in a positive direction the more you add value in any domain”
    ***no argument here. What happens when the only thing remaining in your domain is *you*? What then? . . . . . . it happens, c’est la vie. . . . . . to the best of us.

    Yeah, look, 1 through 5, I’m not going to argue with you, because of my historical respect for you.

    I suppose my ultimate point is this: females are what they are, and it’s twisted. But that doesn’t mean that we as males must be knocked off of our path toward something higher, in order to knowingly pursue something that we know in advance is beneath us.

    I don’t disagree with anything you’re putting forth; I’m merely saying, ‘fuck it’, onward and upward. In other words: who’s right? Who’s wrong? Who cares? What is in our INDIVIDUAL self-interests—for me, more and more, it’s about my own self-interests and those who are close to me and whom I love and care about. Our world is fucked… I care about maintaining the ember where it will be valued… let it die out for the rest, sadly.

    Reasonable minds can differ, and I respect that.

  74. I have 2 sons and these are a few of the tidbits I will pass down to them.

    Basic Tips for Novices
    #1 If you want a woman to like you ignore her as much as possible without being rude. When you finally give her attention her heart will melt.
    #2 Only date young women. If a woman isn’t married by age 25 she probably has significant personality issues. If you wonder why the last cookie on the plate is still sitting there flip it over and you’ll find out.

    Advanced Tips For Experts
    #3 Back Of The Leg Test: Look at the skin on the back of a woman’s leg. The higher up you can see the better. Whatever that skin looks like the rest of her body looks the same.
    #4 Round Face Test: Women with round faces usually have well-shaped, round breasts.

  75. @stuttie – mate – you know what I have been through over the last 40 years…

    I consider myself one of the luckiest people in the world – thank you my friend

  76. @ Magnifque, I’m not following what you are saying. Are you saying that dealing with women can be a pain in the ass, that they cause needless drama, are financially and emotionally dangerous, and that sooner or later will leave you, taking whatever they can grab? And therefore that men can seek higher goals, and not waddle in the muck of feminine slime?

    I believe that sustainable, if ultimately temporary, mutual benefit is possible with women.

    It’s difficult to wring more reward out of women than pain. It’s difficult to seduce and maintain sexual tension and a love-slave relationship with attractive women. Sometimes it’s impossible. Wanting something impossible is more painful than not wanting something impossible.

    But wanting something difficult is called motivation.

  77. Naturam expellas furca, tamen usque recurret-Horace
    (You can drive nature out with a pitchfork but she always comes back. )

    Have faith, the fight is being joined from many quarters. There are plenty of examples just in the past weeks of things that might have worked for them being thrown back into their faces. The example today is the UVa Rape Hoax thing, and before this is all done, this will be some serious egg on faces. Rolling Stone has announced that “trust in the source was misplaced.” All that occurred because far more than just a few renengade Men’s blogs voiced concern. But those other sources that are joining in to point out the lies are emboldened because of men like you.

    Imagine that in 1980, the USSR was considered a juggernaut. 12 years later it collapsed. And the speed and completeness of its fall never could have been predicted even just a few years before it happened.

    Inevitably, Feminism is an idea that is based entirely on the denial of human nature and completely on the human condition therefore it is possible to create a new kind of man and woman. This was much the same tactic of Soviet Socialism and the goal of its propaganda. History showed how that worked out for them.

    Feminism arose and climbed to power at exactly the same time that mass media reached its zenith. The key requirement of propaganda, that it address both the individual and the mass, yet do it in a way that the individual considered himself part of the mass. Television for so long was a shared mass experience. And to control that voice, was to control the narrative.

    The problems with the feminist narrative, the outcomes that continue to be problematic, the collisions with nature, are becoming more and more visible to more and more segments of the population daily. The known givens in the Manosphere leak into the talking points of more and more critics from outside of our community.

    And the level of our sophistication increases, about the level of the subject matter, about the methods in which to discuss and utilize the mediums for communications available , in the awareness of the tactics of the opposition, and in the rapid ways those tactics have been made transparent showing the falsity and the corruption inherent in those tactics.

    And the balls out, in their face, outright fucking defiance is growing in all quarters.

    There was an article in the Guardian where some anti-gamer female “journalist” said she discovered that while she had thought her harassers were loser middle aged men, she found out they were actually young teen boys. So she contacted their moms and told them that she was receiving tweets from them that said “If I ever see you I’ll rape you, you cunt.”

    I thought, “That’ll do, boy. That’ll do.”

  78. but what about your OWN individual positive emotions that are inner-generated? What happens when external beings no longer perceive you as “value-add” to their life? What then?

    It’s not an either or thing.

    I was in Bali last week, away from my lovers. Although I did score one date that went well, at the end of the week I was suffering from severe sex and love withdrawal. Very anxious, could not focus.

    I also did a lot of meditation and chi-kung that week, and the contemplative practices enriched my life.

    We are mutually entwined and engaged, and no amount of forest meditation will ever cure a human of the fundamental disease of being interconnected with other people.

    Our happiness, even while alone in our room, depends upon and is contingent upon our social happiness.

    We are never alone. Everything that we are is enmeshed.

    The trick is to be a nexus of value such that the enmeshing is mutually enriching.

  79. What happens when the only thing remaining in your domain is *you*? What then? . . . . . . it happens, c’est la vie. . . . . . to the best of us.

    You mean if we are broke? I was flat broke for the two years that I was in Thailand, and for many of my years in Indonesia. I was often late in paying my rent. I sometimes had to use coin money for the days ration of booze. I frequently cut my own hair.

    One girl looked up at me in wonder and said “Daddy, why I love you? You no rich. You no handsome. Why I love you Daddy?”

    Money is only one thing a guy can give that is valuable. Emotional and sexual value is huge.

  80. @xsplat

    Look, brother, I love you. You gave me a lot, which I can probably never repay you for (though I’ve tried), and I can never shit on that. But sometimes, I just don’t get where you’re coming from, as I’m sure you often feel about me (with good reason). I had a whole long-ass post locked and loaded for you, but I’m not going to post it, out of brotherly love. Let’s just agree to disagree. Peace.

  81. @Magnifique

    all males are less than what they were put here to be

    Right. Or rather all people. “For all fall short of the glory of God.” I will answer to God for all my shortcomings, which are legion. But I won’t answer to feminists.

  82. @badpainter: “If your mom was like mine then her best interest was your best interest. There would never be any divergence allowed between your interests.”

    Yeah, that’s how it was. But I didn’t give her a lot of quarter there. I had a dog long ago who would run and twist and flip until he slipped his leash. That’s how I was too. It made for a lot of bad blood between me and my mom. What’s so fascinating is that a number of women in my life wanted to know about how I related to my mom. The message was: good relationship with mom = pass, bad = fail. Because of that I tried to get back with my mom in the last years of her life. While it was a futile effort in terms of my first objective (reconciliation) it bore unexpected fruit over time. Long story short, my early resistance and rejection were well founded. I established a sense of certainty about my evaluations. (Yeah, she was a master of opportunistic love.) It also changed my way of choosing women in my life.

    @Softek: Funny how the manual skills travel around in seemingly random ways. I’m like your dad. I maintain two shop spaces with tools and skills to do whatever I want with wood or metal or electricity or mechanical stuff or whatever. My own dad was capable but not at the level that I am. But he did give me the confidence to try anything and the certainty that I could master it if I wanted to. My lament is that I am childless and have few opportunities to teach and share these skills (not to mention that I have a zillion tools that I’d rather give to a worthy disciple than have auctioned off over my dead body).

    My comment above to Softek has an interesting side note: I’m in my shop some thirty years ago and my woman is sitting and watching me work. At one point she interrupts my work on a piece of furniture I’m building and says how the way I am moving looks like a dance to her. It was her way of saying that my ability to move with mastery in my space got her tingly. I was surprised (though not so much as to miss the opportunity!).

    funoldguy

  83. Some excellent ideas here.

    I agree that role modelling is most important. Both yourself as a principled man, and the dynamic with the child’s mother.

    Whilst I have no children of my own, I was with a girl for 18 months and her 2x boys (yes, I know, I know… but the sex was great). I am well-equipped in the ways of cold-approach game and was fascinated to find just how this translated across in dealing with kids (7 and 5 years) in establishing the power dynamic without having any “formal” power in the “family”. Of course I expect the situation to be different with my own kids where I will have more of a vested interest and my role is better defined. I remember taking the littler fella to the doctor to get his chin stitched up; his mum was a mess of hysteria, but he remained calm (and brave) after noting from me it was No Big Deal. Very cool kids.

    For any parents out there I recommend an old-school parenting book (available on Amazon): “The Parent’s Handbook” by Dinkmeyer & son. It’s a little too left wing in places, but a good source of ideas for teaching level-headedness and decision-making.

    Whatever raising a child means, I think we can all agree that it does not involve buying your 6-year-old son an Easy Bake Oven:

    http://www.parenting.com/article/how-to-raise-man

    At least, not unless he obviously gay (nothing wrong with that).

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