In light of the Feminine Imperative having itself capsized over the UVa rape fantasy retracted by Rolling Stone this month, I was reminded of this video and post by Heartiste (Roissy) a few years ago:

Basically, the guy had a few friends follow him around the mall, one guy filming him and the other two guys (I can’t tell if any of his hired guns were women) acting as his “groupies” or entourage. He goes around identifying himself as “Thomas Elliot” when people, mostly women, ask him his name. Eventually, he begins to pile up admiring and gawking female attention, which only snowballs into more female attention. Apparently, not one of these starstruck chicks thought to question if Thomas Elliot was a real celebrity. That’s the power of preselection and fame; so powerful, it can disengage a woman’s neural logic circuitry.

Heartiste goes on to make the prerequisite Game principle  & application observations here, but there is a much larger dynamic in play. While the mall makes for a good setting to test this experiment, it is fairly isolated. A security detail gets assigned to “Thomas Eliot” and even some shops close in order to avoid a crowd panic, but could this dynamic be proven on a larger scale?

This is a very interesting social experiment, particularly when compared to the now infamous (and staged) viral video of Shoshana Roberts walking around New York and enduring the attentions of men she found less than savory. Interesting because they’re essentially trolling for attention from the opposite sex with similar methods, and the results are telling about how each gender perspective generates and reacts to that attention.

Darryl Long made a comment on this topic, and I’ve been considering it for a while now:

On this topic of how women’s attraction changes across their lifetimes I don’t think any analysis is complete without looking at the phenomena of teen-idols. As a man who has sisters and daughters its clear that there is something biological going on with pubescent girls in a way that is radically different from boys. Boys may fantasize about a poster girl, but they never fall over themselves for heartthrobs like Bieber, or Lief Garret, and David Cassidy (in the old days). I’m amazed that many of these teen heartthrobs are more on the fair/effeminate side than masculine. They look like they have good genes, but the most important thing is that all the other girls like them. They are male figures that girls lend incredible status making them even more attractive.

Preselection is a very powerful motivator of women’s hypergamous decision making process. Even the perception of fame (or even the potential for it) is a prime motivator and incentive to lock down a man who presents the hypergamous optimal ideal – a guy who satisfies the sexiness her Alpha Fucks hypergamous needs require and the long term security of provisioning potential from status-confirmed Beta Bucks.

Whether this “famous” guy actually embodies this ideal is irrelevant to a woman’s Id-centric psyche. When women are younger, tweens and teens, this self-convincing is much easier since girls lack any real world experience to reference with respect to what the guy really represents. A capacity for abstract thinking is something that develops as we mature, but the desire to optimize hypergamy is a limbic, instinctual drive for girls and no amount of reasoning can compete with the fantasy of a pre-fabricated idealized Hypergamy.

They want to believe it.

Thus we have hordes of girls and young women willing to go to behavioral lengths they would never consider with the mundane men they’re familiar with in order to just brush with the possibility of  that hypergamous ideal. They will literally climb over one another to realize this.

In a Game sense, preselection (and prequalification or 3rd party endorsement) is a very powerful, instinctual impetus for women. Even in marginal, isolated social settings preselection is an overriding imperative:

Your goal should be to attract women effortlessly, so play to your strengths no matter what they are; there is a groupie for every male endeavor. – Roissy

Mass Hysteria

Once you have a basic understanding of the preselection dynamic and how it is an evolved feature of women’s psychological firmware, the next step is to understand how the power of preselection influences women (and by association men) when scaled to a feminine social dynamic.

Roissy notes from the first video:

Apparently, not one of these starstruck chicks thought to question if Thomas Elliot was a real celebrity.

As I’ve noted in prior posts, perceptions are the overriding imperative of the feminine psyche. It’s not that women on an individual level don’t possess the faculties to discern legitimate social proof, it’s that on a social level they want to believe in that social proof. The estimation of the collective feminine mindset is a powerful influence on the individual woman since it plays on that non-abstract, instinctual need for a pre-verification of optimal hypergamy.

In other words, the effort of sexual-selection vetting has already  been done for them by the feminine hivemind.

Verifying legitimate social proof takes individual time and effort. Perhaps not as much as men have a rational capacity for (the New York stunt fooled more than a few tag-along guys affirming the pseudo-social proof), but for women that opportunity for meeting a hypergamously ideal man supersedes the mental efforts needed to verify social proof. The greater mass of women already believe in the preselection and the intersexual competition is on and overt.

I’ve made the distinction before with regards to women’s preferred communications methods; covert communication being women’s native language, but when women resort to overt communications it’s generally because the content of the  information needing to be transferred outweighs the need for how it’s delivered, or the context of that information.

Transferring information about a man’s preselected approval amongst a collective of women is one such override. However, it’s very important for men living in a feminine-primary social order to understand that social proof is not just limited to preselection of men as potential partners.

This social proof dynamic extends to the perceptions of women in a collective peer group, as well as men for whom they have no sexual interest in, but serve their material interests nonetheless.

The current cultural atmosphere of male suspicion and autonomous rape-threat assessment of men is another variation of this perceptual, hysterical, collective belief dynamic. Women want to believe in the presumption that every man outside of their preselected, collective approved, hypergamous ideal  is a potential rape threat. In other words, a man who might, by force or coercion, assume control of her hypergamous sexual selection.

The narrative, the perception, is all that matters.

And like the women who never had an afterthought as to whether “Thomas Eliot” was the real deal, likewise women become so ego-invested in the certainty of their collective perceptions that, even in light of contrary evidence, the only acknowledged verification of that perception is how it makes them feel.

This contradiction of a collective feminine hysteria is what many luminaries of the Feminine Imperative are now being forced to confront. It’s important to remember during this UVa / Rolling Stone rape debacle that women, and more than a few enabling male sympathizers, wanted to believe this travesty was true in spite of the vaudevillian outlandishments and still refuse to accept that it isn’t.

From Truth to Power:


The first step to really unplugging from our preconditioning (i.e the feminine Matrix) is recognizing that this conditioning has led to the beliefs we think are integral to our personalities. The psychological term for this is called ‘ego-investment’. When a person internalizes a mental schema so thoroughly, and has become conditioned to it for so long, it becomes an integral part of their personality. So to attack the belief is to, literally, attack the person. This is why we see such a violent reaction to people’s political, religious, inter-social/inter-sexual, inter-gender, etc. expressions of belief – they perceive it as a personal attack, even when presented with irrefutable, empirical evidence that challenges the veracity of those beliefs.

People resort to denial when recognizing that the truth would destroy something they hold dear. In the case of a cheating partner, denial lets you avoid acknowledging evidence of your own humiliation. Short of catching a spouse in bed with your best friend, evidence of infidelity is usually ambiguous. It’s motivated skepticism. You’re more skeptical of things you don’t want to believe and demand a higher level of proof. Denial is unconscious, or it wouldn’t work: if you know you’re closing your eyes to the truth, some part of you knows what the truth is and denial can’t perform its protective function.

One thing we all struggle to protect is a positive self-image. The more important the aspect of your self-image that’s challenged by the truth, the more likely you are to go into denial. If you have a strong sense of self-worth and competence, your self-image can take hits but remain largely intact; if you’re beset by self-doubt, however, any acknowledgment of failure can be devastating and any admission of error painful to the point of being unthinkable. Self-justification and denial arise from the dissonance between believing you’re competent, and making a mistake, which clashes with that image. Solution: deny the mistake. Attribute it to an outside element rather than resort to introspection.

This degree of core-level denial is where the likes of Jessica Valenti, Susan Walsh and Zerlina Maxwell find themselves today.

In spite of still growing confirmation that the story was a hoax, femosphere bloggers hold out hope against hope that even the smallest part of a medieval-like rape story to rival Silence of the Lambs could be true.

The pivot for this will of course be how the falsehood injures women who genuinely are rape victims, but this is just the shiny keys jingling to distract anyone sympathetic to their ego-investments from the fact that they wanted to believe this story was legitimate.

They wanted to believe it without an afterthought of critical analysis.

They wanted to believe it in spite of the obvious melodramatic dialogue described by “Jackie”.

They wanted to believe a naive freshmen girl could be frat boy initiation raped for three hours on the shards of glass from a broken glass table and never seek medical treatment or have anyone raise an eyebrow over the bloody mess that her back must’ve looked like as she nonchalantly walked out of the party house.

They wanted and still hope that even the most marginal parts of the story might be true. They want any shred of hope that will distract from the fact that they must now confront their complete acceptance of this obvious farce without any compunction of critical thinking.

They all have to face the fact that their presumption of male guilt comes before any logic or reason. This is the uniquely feminine hysteria that even men will invest themselves into if it means they can more positively identify with the Feminine Imperative.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

178 comments on “Hysteria

  1. “They wanted to believe it without an afterthought of critical analysis.”

    can it be said that women don’t want to do critical analysis in general?

  2. Before Game it used to be said that the easiest way to get a girlfriend is to already have one. Chicks also go for guys pushing a stroller with a baby in it. Too bad my kids are all in their 20s.

  3. They wanted to believe that “street harassment” was real.

    They wanted to believe a “drunk” girl wandering around Hollywood Boulevard in broad daylight, in a sundress and high heels, carrying a paper bag-wrapped bottle and stumbling around like a Skid Row wino, and getting hit on and assaulted by men who wanted to rape her, was true and real and happens all the time.

    They wanted to believe a naive freshman was gangraped and beaten for 3 hours on the shards of a shattered glass table, and that afterwards not a single person noticed as she escaped, bloody and beaten to a pulp, and then she never sought any medical treatment at the insistence of her friends.

    They wanted all this to be true. They think the absolute worst of men.

  4. “Chicks also go for guys pushing a stroller with a baby in it.”

    Nope. That’s a myth. Only women seeking beta bucks like such men. Moreover, that’s all about desirability, not attraction/arousal.

  5. @deti

    Disagree mostly, a baby in stroller is excellent bait. It’s an instant opener, but nothing more. Since most guys are Betas it will signal BB. However, given the nature of women a decent looking guy pushing a stroller *might* be an Alpha with a soft side. Women are like cats when it coes to curiosity.

    I know this from experience. Our fraternity’s resident advisor and his wife had a two year old son. We used him as bait frequently. Had more us (especially me) had any game to go with the bait…well…

  6. Just look at the Twitter feeds of the Femiratti writing about this and you’ll get a sense of just how pervasive this ego investment has become. They express their “disappointment” that it’s NOT true. And they do so with no irony or shame. Truly mind boggling.

    My gut tells me that Bill Cosby is caught up in this female-induced mass hysteria now as well. Mass female hysteria through history is really interesting as well. This is fascinating:


    As is this… An account of collective hysteria causing illness in over 600 girls in Mexico.


    Bottom line: Wouldn’t be surprised at all if many of these so-called “victims” actually believed they were raped by Cosby after the whole rape hysteria meme started gathering steam.

  7. Now a hoax is said to still have a point about showing how something that was a lie is indeed a fact to show how widespread that fact is. So a false claim is twisted to support, and seems like is said to be necessary, for the rapes that do happen.

    Regarding pop stars. Seems that the effeminate type pop stars that the girls go crazy for don’t carry over to the the guys they crush on in their own neighborhoods. They don’t go for a guy who might grow a beard before anyone else, but they don’t really prefer the Beiber types.
    They’ll find a Beiber type cute, but not much of a crush crush.

  8. It’s not that they WANT to believe these things, Rollo. It’s that they automatically absorb external messages, particularly from individuals or groups with whom they want to associate or be accepted by. This is the nature of extroverted feeling (Fe).

    In the same way Fe-dominant girls absorb messages from their teachers to sit still in school and learn their lessons, in the same way they internalize what Barbie dolls and fashion models look like and grow to hate their own bodies and develop neuroses – so they internalize the messages of feminism.

    Truth and logic don’t matter to the Fe-Dom. Only majority opinion. If the majority say that Thomas Elliot is a celebrity, that’s good enough. If a man is surrounded by attractive women (social proof) he must be attractive. And if the media says all men are rapists and that women never lie about assault, that must be true.

    And the corollary – the only way to convince them that this is false is for enough women to admit it. Glad to see some have already done so.

  9. Disagree mostly, a baby in stroller is excellent bait. It’s an instant opener, but nothing more. Since most guys are Betas it will signal BB. However, given the nature of women a decent looking guy pushing a stroller *might* be an Alpha with a soft side. Women are like cats when it coes to curiosity.

    That’s just saying that anything can be used as an opener/bait, and the more incongruous while maintaining frame (Contrast is King), the better.

    A well-trained dog is even better, since it automatically implies both leading (dominance) and looking out for one’s pack.

  10. I know that when my pre-selection was high I’ve never experienced so much female attention. It’s how I bagged my ex wife. An Olympic athlete and nearly a ten. Losing that pre-selection over time was a massive blow to my SMV and I’ve read her forum posts over the years to see it.

    Women get their value from men and a man that other women desire is such a high value to the perception of women. And to women it’s only perception that matters. I was objectively still the same person after I stopped my dangerous hobby but the perception of other women chasing me was gone. Dangerous to lose that perception as there just isn’t much value to sex with me after losing that perception. Despite that I was and am exactly the same person.

    Perception is what matters. Objective reality is not something that women understand. We’ve got to manipulate their perception to our benefit. It’s also to their benefit so I see nothing wrong with this.

  11. I was an engineer at an obscure LA radio station a long time ago. I just played recorded tapes (middle of the road – blech) no on the air presence. And – very hard to believe – I had a groupie. Lots of phone calls. She was lonely and I was up for talk. Not much else to do. I played tapes unless something went wrong. She brought her GF to the golf course outside the station to have a guardian while she gave me a BJ. The GF was a 5 or 6. She was a 3 – at best. Not obese. But definitely a whale. But a BJ is a BJ.

    Women are crazy. As are men. Well I was.

  12. This feminism shit really pisses me off, seriously. All this “Rape Culture” stuff is so retarded. Just the fact that they made up some stupid shit like this now in this day and age is mind boggling. There never used to be a “Rape Culture”.

    I just got done reading woh khavi’s post “Why The World Would Not Be A Better Place If Women Ruled” and

    “To ask the questions is to answer them. Feminist fruitcake Jessica Valenti actually goes as far as to insinuate that in matters of sexual assault, men must be treated as guilty until proven innocent. William Blackstone famously stated that it was better for 10 guilty men to escape rather than one innocent to suffer. To Valenti however, it is better that 10 innocent men be jailed on a false rape accusation then for one guilty rapist to go free. Feminism isn’t about justice or equality, but a grab for power. It’s incredible how most people still can’t see through the ruse in 2014.”

    Like seriously, how can we get this shit to stop. Just tell me what I need to do Rollo, this kinda stuff is getting way out of hand.

  13. Hysteria used to be a recognized medical condition, and the cure was manual stimulation to orgasm. That is the origin of the vibrator, if I remember correctly. The cure for hysteria is a good pounding out. How much of this rape culture meme us a cry for help?

    The Shadowed Knight

  14. thedeti
    December 8th, 2014 at 6:45 pm

    Well it worked for me. But I did turn down the one time I got solid lets fuck vibes. The timing was inconvenient.

    I don’t think, even pushing a stroller, any woman would mistake me for a beta. And I often got a LOT of attention from that baby/stroller.

    You know the female ideal (so the first mate tells me). An alpha who can do beta. I never quite match up to her beta ideal. But I wouldn’t want to . It would kill the romance. I still make her tingle 40 years on.

  15. One could say, the “Hysteria” of pre-selection applies to men as well. Not necessarily in terms of being more attracted to a woman, but in terms of believing the PUAs who approach and make it seem like they are actually picking women up. For instance, very recently has Tom Torero (a big guru in the Day Game area) been exposed for using actresses in his day game “pick-up” videos.

    Just have a look see:

    DAYGAME.COM de Tom Ralis. Rôle: Sarah.
    DAYGAME.COM de Tome Ralis. Rôle: Georgina.”

    The “daygame” company used her twice for “publicities.”

    Here’s one video where she comes out:

    It should also be noted that Goodlookingloser (Chris), was also exposed a few months back for using actresses from a beauty pageant. For some reason, I can’t help but think of Krauser’s recent “day game teaser.” But hey, one can’t point fingers until one is proven guilty.

    I suppose Men also WANT to believe in things without critical thought…

    1. @jaded,

      I suppose Men also WANT to believe in things without critical thought…

      When PUA culture reaches the point of jailing women for even thinking about not complying with men’s advances to the degree of rape culture hysteria, then we can talk.

      To my knowledge young men aren’t crying and fainting in mass throngs at Nick Krauser book signings.

  16. Why do girls scream at pop/movie stars? Easy answer. That’s the system evolution developed that allows women to stand out in a crowd. What they are really saying is, “LOOK AT ME! NOTICE ME!”

  17. Few years back I did a similar thing with a couple of mates as a 35th birthday present for our friend. The birds are usually pretty keen on him already so it didn’t take much. A powder blue tuxedo jacket and ridiculous sunglasses were enough.

    Me and my 6’4″ inside-linebacker built friend simply bookended him wherever we went. Our muted dark jackets and naturally stern faces played perfectly into our assumed role as his personal “security”. We had the entire Guinness brewery bar singing him happy birthday and buying rounds, posing for pictures, chatting us up.

    We then cock-blocked a handful of pubs in Temple Bar pulling a silly herd of youngling vixens and a even a few of their orbiters in tow. Occasionally one would get a bit petulant about insisting to know the level and nature of his fame. We simply handled them like thick-necked bouncer-types deferring to “Mr. Wallace” as to how he would like to engage the ones who got aggressive about getting into the sphere of his faux-fame glow.

    Interestingly, our half-ass efforts to shine light on him created a momentum that snowballed all on its own. People want to believe. Though his “fame” also instilled a similar rigidity in hierarchy relative to us “security” guys. Which, of course, was part of our gift to him (unilateral disarmament on our part), but notable to see how invisible two otherwise decent looking guys become when the preselection virus spreads.

    When we tired of the ruse, he settled down with a vixen who had sent him an unsolicited shot from across the bar. Within the hour he was shagging her back in the hotel. They pounded all night, she drove him to the airport in the AM and we all had a good laugh. She was a nice SIW on some buisinessy trip. No doubt she got a bit of mileage for a besties-brunch but her present/future old-man will likely never know how she offered herself up for a fake-fame Yank as well as picking up his tab. Good times.

  18. Hysteria as a medical condition. Exactly… The Greek origin of the word referred to a disorder of the uterus which required stimulation to orgasm. Run that through the SJW filter… Fat, unsightly, multi-hued haired feminists who haven’t had a good pounding in ages and what do you get? Rape hysteria. Don’t discount the wisdom of the ancients.

  19. Re: “No matter what Jackie said, we should generally believe rape claims”

    “The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one’s time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.”
    H. L. Mencken

    If we want to live in a free country, “guilty until proven innocent” MUST remain the law of the land, regardless of the crime. Suggesting otherwise should be branded as sedition and treated appropriately.

  20. Is the only thing we can do about “Rape Culture” is just wait patiently until people get unplugged, it seems like for every guy that gets awakened 3 feminist also see this shit and by the time we have enough men to fight feminism will have already censored some major shit.

    Not trying to sound like a subordinate(I’m working on it) but while I’m here I will and would go to battle for any of you guys, just tell me what I need to do. #Manosphere

  21. I once hard fell for a woman who pulled a similar trick. Marginally pretty, but she was always surrounded by people and teased men with an engaged half-interest. I later discovered that she was cheating on me with a semi-famous Indie musician. Although he obviously didn’t wife her, they were together for the greater part of three years. she settled down with a lawyer-turned-politician. Last I heard, they’re still married. In retrospect I’m glad it didn’t work out, although I have a hard time understanding what made her so fatally charming.

  22. @Rollo:
    “When PUA culture reaches the point of jailing women for even thinking about not complying with men’s advances to the degree of rape culture hysteria, then we can talk.”
    When PUA culture disingenuously promotes products to unsuspecting men, then we should talk. Oh wait, that’s currently what we’re seeing but something tells me you won’t discuss this. After reading your material for quite some time, I can tell you’re not after the complete truth, Rollo. You’re simply fulfilling your own narrative much like the very feminists you and the whole manosphere is against. I must admit, the irony here is hilarious.

    “To my knowledge young men aren’t crying and fainting in mass throngs at Nick Krauser book signings.”
    But they do listen to him, with tentative ears for a solution to their sexual problems. Unfortunately, most will soon realize that their “guru” was nothing more than a con-artist.

    1. Well, I’ll be sure to ask Nick about how his initiative to overturn Yes means Yes is going next time we talk. Until then be sure to tell the guys on PUAHate,..ehr… SLUTHate they’re still grasping for straws.

  23. @jaded

    “but something tells me you won’t discuss this.”
    Seeing as it’s his blog and you’re just here with an axe to grind (no matter how unrelated it is to the topic at hand) I don’t see why he’s obligated to. Not quite sure why you’re expecting him to answer for what you perceive as misbehavior on the part of other people anyway. It’s rather daft.

  24. “Is the only thing we can do about Rape Culture is just wait patiently until people get unplugged”?

    In the old days, these almost exclusively female-induced hysterias would burn themselves out eventually (although sometimes not without leaving major carnage in their wake).

    Mass hysterias started by women (from Wikipedia)…

    Dancing Plague of 1518 – Started when Frau Troffea began dancing erratically in the streets. A month later 400 people were dancing in the streets and many died from heart attacks.

    Salem Witch Trials of 1692 – Four teen girls began to have fits that were described by a minister as “beyond the power of Epileptic Fits or natural disease to effect.”

    Halifax Slasher of 1938 – Started when two women claimed to have been attacked by a mysterious man with a mallet and “bright buckles” on his shoes.

    Tanganyika laughter epidemic of 1962 – Started at a mission-run boarding school for girls in Kashasha, Tanzania.

    Blackburn Fainting Epidemic – 1965 – Started when several girls complained of dizziness.Within a couple of hours, 85 girls from the school were rushed by ambulance to a nearby hospital after fainting.

    Malaysia Hysteria 1970s – Affected school-age girls and young women working in factories. The locals explained the outbreak as “spirits” having possessed the girls and young women.

    West Bank Fainting Epidemic of 1983 – Series of incidents in March 1983 in which 943 Palestinian teenage girls, mostly schoolgirls, and a small number of IDF women soldiers fainted or complained of feeling nauseous in the West Bank. Investigators concluded that even if some environmental irritant had originally been present, the wave of complaints was ultimately a product of mass hysteria.

    Similar incidents in Mexico City (2007), Tanzania (2008), Brunei (2010), LeRoy NY (2011), Portugal (2006)… Almost all started by girls or women.

    The difference today I believe is that these mass hysterias are no longer confined locally. They travel much faster, more widely and are much more pervasive thanks to social media. Also absent these days is the gating factor of a preponderance of Rational Males (TM) who call bullshit on these female hysterias. They’ve been replaced by White Knight enablers who egg on and encourage the manic behavior.

    Bottom line: The “rape culture” mania is undoubtedly yet another female hysteria. Yes, rape happens and it’s bad stuff. But nowhere near the #’s that feminists claim.

    Under normal circumstances the “rape culture” hysteria would burn itself out over time, but in these strange times, who knows.

    1. But Thoroughbred, all of those historic instance and all of the recent socially impacting legislation that’s the result of a feminine created rape-culture hysteria pales,…pales I say, in comparison to the damage of hysteria incited by PUAs.

      Why, the Rolling Stone has failed the public interest! Who they really should be investigating are the likes of Nick Krauser and RooshV!


  25. “Until then be sure to tell the guys on PUAHate,..ehr… SLUTHate they’re still grasping for straws.”

    It’s interesting to know that you check up on them. They do have a lot of interesting things to say that the PUA community won’t, eh? I suppose when you’re popular in the manosphere, it’s ok to deny harsh truths that don’t fulfill your narrative. I mean, your readership won’t exactly welcome such a thing anyway.

    But keep blogging away Susan..ehr, I mean Rollo. heh.

  26. “One thing we all struggle to protect is a positive self-image. The more important the aspect of your self-image that’s challenged by the truth, the more likely you are to go into denial. If you have a strong sense of self-worth and competence, your self-image can take hits but remain largely intact; if you’re beset by self-doubt, however, any acknowledgment of failure can be devastating and any admission of error painful to the point of being unthinkable. Self-justification and denial arise from the dissonance between believing you’re competent, and making a mistake, which clashes with that image. Solution: deny the mistake.”

    Was this projection on your part, Rollo? One can only wonder….heh.

  27. …And like the women who never had an afterthought as to whether “Thomas Eliot” was the real deal, likewise women become so ego-invested in the certainty of their collective perceptions that, even in light of contrary evidence, the only acknowledged verification of that perception is how it makes them feel.

    This also works the other way. Roger Elliott likely experienced women who were ego invested in believing, despite any contrary evidence, that Roger was a loser who could never be worthy of them. I tend to believe that men are vaguely aware of this sort of “pricing out” by various women, and when perceived it has significant affects on the ego invested man.

    This feminine-primary social order protects the ego investments of the women wholly at the expense of free masculine thought.

    Bring back true stoicism.

  28. And you Rollo. You’re most certainly on the ninnies shit list by now. Giggles is gunning for you big time.

    Incidentally, If Rational Males (TM) start digging into the Cosby rape hysteria with the same focused fury as they did with RS and Lena Dunderhead, my prediction is that it too will blow away like ashes in the wind.

    1. @Thoroughbred, actually Susan’s not have a very good month with her facts. She’s lamely trying to poke at Dalrock’s last 3 posts, but her “data’ was debunked before she pressed the ‘publish’ button.

      Ironic, since all her “hard data” jumping to Team Woman conclusions has come back to bite her on the ass this month and show her as the fraud she is. Jaded is just J2.0 from HUS trying to wring her hands over here because Dal wont bother with Giggles’ disproven junk data.

  29. re: orgasms.

    It’s been my long and considerable experience that a woman is a lot more lovey dovey when she *hasn’t* had her orgasm yet, and she is a lot more, eh, prone to off-putting hysteria etc the day *after* she has had quite enough orgasming to last her a while.

  30. re: women wanting to believe the worst about men.

    It’s just part of the apex fallacy; in essence, women are telling men how women *want* them to behave, i.e. like bad boys.

  31. Re: Cosby.

    There is ample evidence that Cosby had sex with many women. Even without that evidence, he was a famous comedian on tour. That’s only barely less pre-selected than a famous musician on tour. I have no doubt that sexual contact with some of these women was reality for Cosby. I also have no doubt, that the only thing for these women to gain at this point, long after any legal proceeding can happen to clear Cosby’s name, is attention and money.

    It’s almost like a woman designed it that way. Just claim an event happened long in the past, get attention, get money, leave no option to prove lies.

    I do not believe Cosby raped anyone. There are only unsubstantiated claims, and he’s a large target.

  32. re: Jackie a double-dipping fraud.

    I actually don’t think she thinks she’s lying. I think she believes her *role* is to *portray* a victim, in order to better support some other woman or women she believes are real victims. Ironically, other women believed that she was a real victim … This is in accord with Rollo’s thesis that perception, or rather being perceived, is all that matters to women.

  33. Kanazawa is the preeminent redpill researcher out there, he has been pilloried to kingdom come and kicked off every site he wrote for (most notably Psychology Today) because of his redpill research.

    Here’s an exert from a response to a critic.

    “When it comes to intersexual selection, the law states that the sex that invests less into the offspring is sexually more aggressive, and the sex that invests more is sexually more choosy and coy (Trivers 1972). This means that, among most mammalian species (including all primates), the female is more choosy than the male, and thus sex and mating become a female choice (Kirkpatrick 1987; Small 1993).

    There is by now a significant amount of evidence to demonstrate that men lek (conspicuously display their genetic quality) and women choose from among the available men.

    If sex and mating were a male choice, how is a regular copulation different from rape? Why is rape so traumatic and devastating to women if it is no different from a regular copulation (Thornhill & Thornhill 1983)? Rape is so traumatic and devastating to women precisely because that is the only time when a sexual copulation is not a female choice. All the other instances of sexual intercourse are treated and perceived differently because they are always a female choice. ”

    Men lek (display) and females choose, all game is based on improving or imitating high value lekking.

    Anything that violates fully informed female choice, whether by inducing self delusion, mimicking, omission, deception, contriving or guile is seen as rape by a low status male. Drunken sex is viewed as the removal of capacity to choose and therefore rape.

    That is why being ‘tricked’ or ‘taken advantage of’ seems to be so prevalent in female discourse, I guess that is why game is so villified.

    The hysteria isn’t about genuine rape but the innate fear of having sex with low value men, the prevalence of ‘game’ simply adds to the hysteria.

    As Whisky used to say, “Women hate hate hate betas.” And sex with a low value man is akin to rape.

  34. @johny
    “As Whisky used to say, “Women hate hate hate betas.” And sex with a low value man is akin to rape.”

    The irony in this is how absolutely aghast women are when a man openly displays a “no fat chicks” policy. We don’t cry rape if we drunkenly fucked a fat chick that managed to fool us with the ugly lights and beer goggles. We just get razzed by the guys, punch each other a few times, then laugh it off.

    The female analog to the same exact situation is “RAPE!”

    1. the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
    2. any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.

    Nowhere in the common definition is “tricked” or “regret” to be found.


  35. “They all have to face the fact that their presumption of male guilt comes before any logic or reason. ” They aren’t logical to begin with so why would they have to analyze.. oohh look at that big cat! OMG Roosh is such an ass for insulting me. Logic isn’t a feminist attribute.

  36. Rational Male is more or less, for better or for worse, my home court. This comment is both on thread and off. I got something to say and I come here on my home court to say it. I think it bears reading.

    Today Roosh posted an article about Julian from RSD. And in the article he basically threw Julian under the bus.

    I see that as a mistake for this community. I say that we as a community should vigorously defend Julian and RSD and not desert them.

    Much the same hysteria got going around Julian as around these other recent “happenings”. The whole “Julian is bad bad bad thing” got legs exactly as the UVa thing did (Somebody on Sailer called it 50 Shards of Glass). Some SJW group got to twittering, then the liberal pages, then the MSM picked it up, all telling some slanted hysterical version of RAPE!

    And it has been noted that RSD was ill equipped to deal with the public fallout from that attack because it was an insulated commercial endeavor. And it made a fatal error by going into a hole and hoping the storm would pass and when the “Hysteria” grow into a hurricane, it was, more or less, all over for them.

    Our community could have and should have came out in defense of RSD.

    They are a 10 year organization, one the seminal players in Game, possibly the first. While Tyler Durden came off badly in the Neil Strauss book, that is one author’s interpretation of what happened. Neither Strauss nor Mystery could convert what they did into a functional program in the way RSD did. I will speak more about them further down.

    Now why did the community successfully sfend off the attacks from two different quarters recently, the UVa Rape Hoax and the whole “Street Harassment” farce? Both of these were massive threats to men. Yet they were turned back, at least for now.

    It was a unilateral defense from ALL facets of the community. ALL.

    It was a fucking Stalingrad where site after site, writer after writer, poured into the fight. It was like a buzzing that was buzzing around when the first MSM articles appeared on the subject, and it broke into an all out frontal attack when Sailer highlighted the Bradley piece, then other writers and commenters began to propagate that around. Admittedly, this is not the best example of what I wish to say, because in the end, the facts of the case won the day. Phi Kappa Psi lawyered up, got their act together, made sure of no loose piece and then lowered the boom.

    But there was some key philosophical preparation that came from this community. As the Rape Culture Hysteria grew and grew, it has been this community that softened up with body blows the bullshit concept of “Rape Culture”, with questioning the validity of the 20% statistic, introduced the whole idea of False Rape, women’s penchant for Alpha Cock, HPD, and many, many concepts. We have been involved in (using the ever present Stalingrad metaphors) the Rat War, of engaging sites and authors, one on one, and fighting them, in the dirt, between the piles of rubble.

    This set the stage for men outside of immediate community to begin to suspect the flavor of the Jackie story, and begin to probe in the small details. We had set the base case for the classic case of the false claim, and this Jackie woman had all the characteristic. Authors in the more conservative posts of the MSM knew we were out there, knew we would back them, gained courage from our voice and our convictions. We have been saying these things for some time, and when the Pro-Rape MSM came with their “Smoking Gun”, their “aha” proof, then in a worst case scenario, it turned out to be not only a lie, but a nightmare of a lie for them, a whole “50 Shards of Glass” fantasy from a woman with a classic case of Histrionic Personality Disorder.

    The basis for piling on now, the rhetoric to seize the opportunity of the victory, and turn it to our favor, is the scientific information, the anecdotal base of our members, and especially the precepts and maxims that were hashed out, formulated,and created in this community.

    Much the same thing happened with the whole “100 hours walking in New York” street harassment video. We had “softened up” the discussion with the whole “alpha/beta” concept, that women had a “visceral reaction” in being approached by what they considered “beta” men, men of a lesser SMV then the woman felt she deserved. The essence of Rational Male is the Feminine Imperative and women attempting to control the “narrative” in a way that maximized their position, their options, and control over even “who” dared to approach. We introduced the whole “Brady Rule” of the receptiveness to approach from the high SMV and their double standard of tolerance between alpha/beta. And we introduced the ideas of how women collectively act in a manner to “raise the cost of sex” and not only sex, but any social interaction with them to create the notion of women, not only as the object of desire, but as a status symbol. And if they that their way, men she view them as a Goddess. And we pointed out that their attempt was to create preferential and protected status for women, and a target status, a villainous, lower class, second class status for men that should be forced by convention and, if they had their way, by the law, into deference to women as the “better” than all men, more righteous, more moral, superior in every way.

    And with these predicate writings, with the passed around knowledge, with this philosophical preparation, when those videos hit, then we struck back with a unified response. And the force of our arguments made a mockery out of those videos, in all ways, and forced feminists into a racial defense that showed the two-faced nature of them. And their response was tepid and our preparation easily defeated them, almost.

    Because we surrendered some ground, the whole “catcalling” thing. We gave up some control over when, where, and how a socially acceptable approach was to be tolerated BY WOMEN. And the whole affair created a “hysteria” in the minds of women, that “oh my god, I got approached by a beta, RAPE!!!”

    And that leads me to Julian and RSD.

    First, the internecine warfare among people in our community is self-defeating. The two episodes mentioned are examples that (a) we fight a powerful foe, one with greater numbers, and with the “air cover” of the MSM, the government, and academia (b) but also that unified as a community, we can fight the good fight. And win.

    I have said this shit before. The day Rollo published his first book, I posted this variation on the Jesse Jackson speech in front of the 1988 Democratic convention that was a call for unity in the party.

    “Your Patch Is Not Big Enough”

    And we all get too off in our own idea of superiority of this or that, petty squabbles and jockeying for status and position in the community, some fucking soap opera of he said/he said. There is far too much fighting in the way of some “ideological purity”, always some Stalin that wants to repress some Trotsky for this and that.

    And your fucking patch is not big enough for each little group to do this.

    If think nobody should ever right a lick about Game or any Manosphere topic unless they are out in the street, approaching day after day and any other pretender that wishes to offer research studies, science, politics is fucking pretender that should shut up, then heck, You’re right, …

    but for now, your patch is not big enough.

    You guys that think Day Game is it, that night game is dead, you’re right, but your fucking patch is not big enough.

    You guys that think Direct Game is the true test of your masculinity and the best way to express sexual intent and not beat around the bush, you’re right but your patch is not big enough.

    If you think Game and PUA is a lifestyle, something for life, ….

    If you see PUA as a response to modern women and their hypergamistic attitude towards men and marriage justifies that response, …..

    If you think a return to Traditional Marriage is the salvation of society …

    If you wish to limit immigration because of the effect on the societal position of native born Americans, the loss of income, and the impact on the male provider role….

    If you wish to fight the vilification of white men by cultural marxism …

    If you wish to fight the incursion of feminine ideas of some reconstruction of the male gender

    If you wish to fight for Father’s right, Men’s rights

    If you wish to fight Liberalism and Marxist ideologies in Universities and in society and return to science and truth

    And I list this last one for a reason …

    If you think your indirect game is superior because it is a natural and socially accepted way to approach without setting the alarms that women have been able to create via this moral panic and hysteria of Street Harassment ….

    You’re all right, But your patch is not big enough, not by a long shot, no matter that you have a small army of followers.

    Because on your own, without the rest of us, without all of us, you can and will be beaten. I don’t give a fuck who you threaten with reprisal.

    I been there. I have been in the position of having the internet come after me. And it is a lonely fucking place to be. Especially when you feel you were misunderstood. And I agree that to hunker down, to hope it will pass, to not fight back with all you got is the biggest mistake that you can make.

    So I don’t give a shit what you may have written or said about me in the past, you are part of this community. And I am part of it also.

    And when they come for you, and you are in that “dark alley” under that kind of attack and you look over your shoulder to see who is there for you, …

    I’ll be there.

    Exactly because when you win, I win. We win. And we cannot do it alone.

    OK, RSD is not equipped nor prepared to fight this fight as a commercial entity. And you may ask if they would fight it for you if you were under attack. And you believe it is over for them. And you may believe their form of game is bad, wrong, not up to your standards, your idea of game purity.

    But so what. That is not for you to make that call.

    We cannot surrender the field of who can approach who, nor when, nor why, nor how. Even if RSD borders on assault, it is not assault nor rape. It is a boy trying to talk to a girl. The women are trying to control the parameters of what is acceptable.

    And that is not acceptable.

    Basically, the comments Julian made in that video were taken out of context and twisted in a way that suited the purposes of whatever person wanted it to mean, without taking the total message, the whole body of the message, the whole natural basis of what men are and what women respond to.

    To me, without a ton of research into what RSD is about, and what there target client is like, I feel RSD is sort of “nerd game”. There is always this claim by men that today, in order to be successful with woman, you have to be tall, handsome, buff, successful, witty, charming, 12 inch dick, etc.

    And there is a whole segment of men, that do not come close to approaching that ideal, no matter what they do.

    I am 6’3″. I have blond hair and blue eyes. I weigh 200 pounds. I have a 34 inch waist. I am educated, well spoken. I have been most of my life. Despite my current economic situation, I wasn’t always that way. So for me, and men like me, approaching is a different thing than for others. It is up to me to blow it, and I did, a lot. But also in my peak SMV, I could merely pose up against the bar, and as I have been told, “I got picked” and thus since I got picked, I never learned to pick. I took who picked me. And when I got older, I lost that power. And I had nothing to substitute. I wasn’t going to get picked anymore. But still, even then, I had the option of walking up to at least initiate a conversation, and when my conversation all turned to what a nice guy, blue pill provider I would be, then “Yawn”.

    But many of these RSD clients are outside of that window. Their Indirect Approach is blown out of the water, they lose before they even begin. And they learn tactics, that in spite of that, how to use what they had, hold the attention of the girl past the possibility of being blown out, stay in the set, and perhaps, win. OK, they came on strong, big fucking deal, nobody got hurt. Little girlfriend might have gotten a little indignant that this little freak was pushing her into a set. But so what. This isn’t assault and it isn’t rape. It is men attempting to fight the good fight in the midst of a culture that is hostile to them, to overcome the innate bitchiness and choosiness of women using some tactics that are predicated on showing some dominance and masculinity coupled with some psychological methods, eye contact, voice, etc.

    They say nothing will kill a bad product faster than good advertising. And RSD existed as a thriving game business with many clients and adherents to its method FOR 10 YEARS. You name me any other group that did more field work, more experimentation, posted more videos, gave more free information, really, that influence the whole aspect of PUA more than that group.

    In their method there contains a whole lot of truth, a whole lot of science, and a whole lot of practical work to provide the offerings to their clients. If women don’t fucking like those truths, if they don’t like what it says about them, how they can be affected, lead, even tricked by it, tough fucking shit.

    Men are not placed on this earth to be convenient for goddam women, natural is natural, if and someone learns how to fake the “natural” of the he-ing and the she-ing, and they can use that “natural” to their benefit, too fucking bad.

    The reality of “nature” is that it is not necessary for the female of the species to absolutely determine if the male possesses those “high cost signals” as a way of her determining his mate fitness, only that she believe it long enough for her to mate with him. It is not rape for her to be fooled, it is her fault that she was. If RSD allows those men to pierce those bitch shields long enough to fool her, tough fucking shit. It says more about her that she made the choice then it says about him that he exhibited the necessary structural and behavioral signals to cause her to make that choice.

    Yes, there is truth in what they teach. Even in the Japan thing that burnt Julian. I have been in Japan as big tall blond American Marine. I was in Hiroshima, not the best place to be an American soldier. But I can attest to being held in some awe as I walked through public places, little kids pointing at me, excitedly saying “Mama, gaijin” or looking at me with wide eyes, being the first super tall (for there) yellow haired white skin man the kid had ever seen. I know what it like to be at least a foot taller than anyone. And we know in this community the real animal affect that male physicality has on women, and the lure of the foreigner also.

    So when Julian made the critical mistake of boasting about the advantage of being white and grabbing those women behind the head and pulling them into his crotch for a second and yelling “Pokemon” or “Pikachu”, it specifically angered some Asian girl in America, who (a) was viewing his actions in the light of an American woman’s idea of feminine imperative (b) refused to acknowledge the effect of masculinity in the equation (c) didn’t take into affect a cultural reality in Japan that is different than where she was sitting.

    You know what a lot of Japanese girls did when he did that? They giggled, were delightedly shocked that he jumped outside the norm of behavior that they expected from herb Japanese men. Japan is a country that has successful TV shows that just crack up the Japanese where some guy sneaks up behind unsuspecting people in public and screams at the top of his lungs, startling the fuck out of them. Or he camouflaged himself and leaped out to shock them, hid somewhere so when they opened a door or a cabinet, he spooked them, and the Nips thought this shit was funny, funny, funny.

    Do you think that if the tactic Julian used wasn’t successful, if it didn’t have the desired effect, he would have continued it?

    In my opinion, the SJW screamers were assholes who imposed their own idea of culture, what women should and shouldn’t do, what an American woman wanted in male behavior on what Japanese women found attractive. And this isn’t anywhere near the first time, western feminists have imposed their will on the Japanese women. They have no problem insulting the agency of foreign women and imposing the imperative of their ideas and culture on foreign women.

    And I ask though, of the many men who attend RSD training, what is the ultimate hope of most of them? How many go on to be full-time lifestyle, battled hardened PUA slick notch gathering superstuds?

    How many truly just hope they use what they learned to meet someone, forge a relationship, perhaps build a life together. Even those that do have success, what is their actual end result? That they met someone better, anyone actually, than maybe they might have without the training? Even Strauss married.

    How many relationships, how many marriages, have occurred that would not have occurred if it were not for Game? I know one, for sure. We are compelled by women to use game to meet and mate with them, IN SPITE OF THEMSELVES.

    In a perfect world, all of us, most of anyway, would prefer that we followed the blue pill teachings, that we Prepared For Marriage, as Dalrock puts it, then we went up to some girl and listed our Good Father qualities, why we would make good husbands and fathers, displayed our trustworthiness, stood outside her window with a fucking boom box over our head like John Cusack in “Say Anything” playing some love song announcing our undying and forever love and then we would all live happily ever after.

    But, this site Rational Male exists, and the whole fucking manosphere exists because of the truth and reality of women. And if RSD exists then it is also because of Women, their choosiness, the irrationality when comes to choosing men, and staying put in relationships, their whole outsized and ridiculous of their moral superiority and entitlement.

    And RSD exists as a business because those men, that great percentage, those that fall outside the ideal, the prince, have a fucking right to partake in the game of life, one that is enhanced by love and companionship, and not be written off as so much trash.

    ROK had some essay a few days back about some Stalin order during World War II “Not One Step Back”.

    And to me, “Not One Step Back” means fucking “Not One Step Back”.

    It doesn’t mean “OK, maybe One Step Back if I have some problem with the tactics and techniques of some group.” or “Maybe One Step Back If Their Game Messes with Mine” or “Maybe One Step Back if it helps me sell more books because my book is better than their book.”

    And giving up the ground, on the when, the where, and the how we engage with women, in any way, any how, any time, any place, especially when there are no victims, when we are being men, and undertaking sexual pursuits, natural pursuits as men, then that is ….

    One Step Back.

    And motherfuckers, look behind you, there are not a not a lot of “steps back” left. The Volga is right there.

    One writer said “The Culture war is lost and the winner is merely going around shooting the survivors.”

    If you think you are immune to being “shot” you are kidding yourself.

    So RSD didn’t inflict pain on its enemies, but they don’t know how. We could have and still should show them the way. We as a group can fight that fight not because it is their fight but because it is ours.

    And instead of saying “If the mob comes for me, …”

    We say, “Fuck with one, fuck with all.”

    The recent victories gained were gained as a community. A fucking community.

    And I am going to say One More Fucking Time.

    Your patch is not big enough.

  37. re: Women, fear, and hysteria

    I see this as another problem of a maladaptive psyche which seems to be fairly common feature in women. Given the natural tendency toward fear, and anxiety we get hypergamy, we also get hysteria, and the jumping at shadows cowing before imaginary bogeymen that can only come from a mind that favors feelz over reason. This is why women can’t be content, can’t be made happy, and ultimately can’t be trusted. 

    As an evolutionary defense this all makes sense in an environment where the daily risks of life were often lethal. A healthy fear, and emotional flexibility make adapting to crisis easier for women, just as a man’s inclination to take action or resort to violence is a defensive response. But what happens when the real world poses no obvious physical risk.

    Reduce risk and men become complacent, and women become unbearable. Women having developed the preference for emotion over reason have difficulty in a state of true physical security. They can’t function without an external threat to tamp down their anxiety. They must have have something to fear larger than themselves and out of their control. Today that is an irrational fear of “rape.”

    They can not simply be content. This is the mistake most men make as we want to be content. We only fight because we have to, because it’s our burden. Women on the other hand can’t be content because they have not, and have never collectively been an active part of the survival problem. They have been the recipients of the labor of men, the beneficiaries of the sacrifices of men and the wards, and the burdens of men. As such they are entirely dependent upon men to control their fears. When men have solved the big problems and decided to enjoy the fruits of our, and our forefathers labors that’s when women resort to these hysterias, fueled by media and instant mass communications, because they are driven not by reason and logic but by fear, and emotion. 

     It is this innate fear that drives the women to feminism, to ” rape culture” to ever greater expectations because they are incapable of hearing and accepting the the truth. And the truth is today in the developed world things aren’t that bad. Women don’t function well without the a real threat, the real dread of physical insecurity, the threat of being alone,  the threat of death. Women don’t respond to incentives alone but rather they respond to incentives only in the face of far worse alternatives, dread, punishments, and fear. 

    It is much akin to old military thinking that says the key to good discipline and morale is to keep the soldiers busy and to not allow them the luxury of time to ponder their minor and insignificant complaints. In a rare age where child birth does not risk death, where 1/2 of children don’t die before age 2, and where rape and pillage are unlikely women have too much freedom, too much time to let their emotions roam and create problems where none actually exist. Their anxiety exists because they lack the distraction of necessary hard physical work  that previously once motivated their efforts to provide good homes and to mind their roles as women in cooperative society where men fulfilled their own unique roles as providers and protectors.

    A reasonable person sees things are pretty good compared to the past, to many women thinks this is a sign that things aren’t good enough because without an overt threat everything should be perfect. 

  38. I must admit this scares me. Nut for myself, but I have 4 boys, the oldest turned 17 a few months ago, the second one becomes 13 next month. I’ve introduced my eldest to game, I bought him the book of Mystery, primarily because I feel it is something I could have used very well when I was his age.

    But I mean, really, I don’t want him subject to some false rape claim. What the hell do I tell him? He is aware of this as well, as he reads the news too. I think they are in for though times until common sense returns

  39. The PUAHATE guys need a new website – they likely already have found one, where they try to expose every PUA who is not tall and has model-looks as a fraud. Since they are banned quickly at ROK or the RooshVForum, they come over here to preach their idiotic theories, which have no basis in reality whatsoever.

  40. I get where both Mark Minter and Roosh are coming from.

    I’m wary of what the MSM showed, and, I admit I haven’t watched many of RSD’s videos to make a full evaluation, but can we (of the manosphere) really collectively & vigorously defend RSD’s methods even if there are obvious (to me) ‘Commercial Game’ floors?

    I live in Australia (very much a knee-jerk nanny state) and I do recall the recent RSD hysteria and swift action to deny his work vias entry. Politicians here are media / vote whores and will fold under ANY sort of pressure.

    Mark is right though, that as a collective, we should, and can, combine our strength.

  41. Feminist Rape Culture is the female ego defensive idea that, for every woman, no matter how unappealing they might be, all men on some level desire her, to the point of her fantasizing that all men could loose control and act violently against their natural male protective instinct, societal conditioning, and legal penalty threat to “have” her (she’s THAT important). The affected woman can enter into every situation/ transaction throughout her every day assuring herself of her own desirability even though most likely she’s not even noticed or wanted (she’s truly insignificant and unimportant). It’s over compensation for basic female insecurity. The amount of solipsism pushing this “culture” is staggering.


  42. Malatan, in regard to advising one’s sons, I took mine to college and told him as we were getting enrolled that 4-5 boys a year from his class (turns out I underestimated) will be falsely accused and have their lives broken.

    Therefore, I suggested, three things: a) no first time sex when drinking; b) nothing good happens after midnight, and first-time sex is better practiced in daylight; c) I wasn’t going to be of much help to him if he got arrested after 10 p.m. I know he wasn’t prepared for this conversation, at all. (His mother raised him to just be himself etc.)

    I don’t know if my advice provided any insight for him, but he did graduate in 7 semesters with only a 105 mph in a 55 on his record.

    I also think the situation is already much worse on the campus, with YMY proliferating, than it was just six years ago. But I don’t know what other advice we can give other than “never talk to girls.” They are going to drink beer, and they are going to have the hots for girls.

  43. Minor note on preselection:

    When I was first climbing the red pill learning curve a couple of years ago, I was dating a woman who lived in NW DC. I would generally hit the bricks around 6:30 a.m. or 7, still dressed for the night before (obviously not dressed for a DC office) and shoot down the hill before stopping for coffee at a Starbucks. This is the sort of Starbucks where fried and frazzled SIWs stop and grab their overpriced coffee before rushing off to their law offices and the Hill and their NGOs.

    I really liked my girlfriend at the time, and I was glowing majorly each morning when I stopped with my day old stubble and generalized hedge-fund gigolo clothing.

    I couldn’t believe, at first, how many double takes I was receiving from the streaming SIWs. I concluded that I was wearing the mantle of “I just had sex all night and you didn’t”, though obviously I wasn’t even trying to do so. I started buying the paper and just sitting there for an hour to experience the buzz of a preselected male. It was a great way to start the day.

  44. @boomerick
    I’m inclined to agree. Female ego is why “creep” and its variants have come to me “interested male I find unattractive”. It’s so the princess can feel like she’s so popular with boys that she has to fight them all off while waiting for her prince. The funny thing with rape though is that I’ve always heard it’s usually about power from the rapist perspective, not sexual attraction.

    Now that it’s about the female ego, rape seems to be about sexual attraction 100% of the time

    Of all the wedges feminism has tried to drive between men and women in the modern age, this one saddens me the most. It’s like a collective effort to burn every bridge, destroy all cooperation, and end all potential happiness between men and women for good. Horrible.

  45. http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/12/why-we-believed-jackies-story-113365.html#.VIcfIDHF_jg

    “What does it say that we read an article in which an 18-year-old girl was pinned down, graphically violated by multiple people in a house we pass almost every day — and we thought, “That just may be right?”

    “Ultimately, though, from where I sit in Charlottesville, to let fact checking define the narrative would be a huge mistake. “These events undoubtedly do occur here,” first-year Maddie Rita told me. “And while this report has clearly had factual flaws as well as rhetorical missteps, there are plenty of other fully corroborated accounts not only at this university, but at every university around the country.”

    Using some of the most twisted reasoning imaginable, Julia Horowitz, the assistant managing editor at the UVa student newspaper, feels that whether the story is true or false does not matter. What matters is that people believed Jacky; they thought something like her story could happen. In her mind the fact that Jacky was given the benefit of the doubt equals guilt for all men. Why let a little thing like facts get in the way?

    Women have always been this way. Oscar O’Reilly has an interesting article on it: The Bill Cosby Rape Scandal Is Just Another Example Of Modern Hysteria, on ROK.

    As Rollo states, “They want to believe it.”

    The question is why? The answer is “Drama”. This insane need to feel something, anything, drives women to make the most twisted leaps of illogic. It drives them to do the most irrational things. Things that make no sense to the average man. The psuedo-star in the mall; that’s good for hours of conversation and oh-so-close what-if contemplation. Believing the UVa gang rape; imagine the fear, loathing, disgust, and perhaps even secret-desire. (I know no woman WANTS to be raped but to be SO desired that a man risks prison to take you; the drama, the fantasy). The cat-calling crisis… Bill Cosby….

    Drama + Fantasy + Female Power = Destruction.

  46. @Matatan wrote
    > I don’t want him subject to some
    > false rape claim. What the hell do
    > I tell him?

    Mike Cernovich is a manosphere blogger who both happens to be a lawyer, and who survived a false rape accusation (sort of) when he was a student.

    He’s published a great article on how guys can protect themselves:


    and he’s put out a podcast in which he interviews a lawyer who represents false accusation cases:


    Concrete info on what guys can do to protect themselves in these.

  47. @Johnnycomelately:

    “The hysteria isn’t about genuine rape but the innate fear of having sex with low value men, the prevalence of ‘game’ simply adds to the hysteria.”

    This is a pro comment. And it makes perfect sense in the context of hypergamy and evo-psych. Women’s eggs are limited and thus valuable. In the past, women made a tradeoff between high value alphas and provisioning betas. Today’s rampantly hypergamous women no longer make such a tradeoff because the provisioning side of a woman’s hypergamy is no longer as important — societally they’ve been conditioned to believe that they can always provision for themselves, or that provisioning is at least an equal M/F partnership.

    What you’re left with is women who only want the best, the Apex Alpha. When their alpha fucks hypergamy is “fooled” by game, by being drunk, etc. they feel they’ve been deceived into risking those valuable eggs on low-value genetic material.

    It would be interesting to study the numerous examples of college rape allegations. I’d wager that many of the males accused are NOT alphas.

  48. @Atticus:

    “The question is why? The answer is “Drama”. This insane need to feel something, anything, drives women to make the most twisted leaps of illogic.”

    Another pro-comment. This also explains women’s completely illogical attraction to weird spirituality, astrology, palm reading, gossip rags like the National Enquirer, and the like.

    I know a woman who spends hours online each day perusing the gossip sites on the Internet. She insists that all of the celebrity gossip is true. The most ridiculous nonsense that you could imagine. It’s hopeless trying to explain to her that it’s made up (often by Hollywood agents, and often with the acquiescence of the Hollywood subjects of said gossip to keep their names in the media). Gossip has become a marketing gimmick, pushed to women who WANT to believe. If they can’t have drama in their own lives, they live it vicariously in the lives of others.

    The rape hysteria is drama gone hyperbolic.

  49. @minter

    we are sitting in the trenches, trying to hold the line, when one of us decides to climb out and run by himself across no man’s land.. After about 200 yards he is shot, wounded. Do we send the rest of the platoon out to rescue him? No, because he didn’t act for the unit, instead he acted foolishly on his own.

    We are a community, which means when you ignore the community it can ignore you when it is bad to do so. Certainly Roosh is wrong to be sniping at the bleeding Julien. However it would not be a good idea to go on CNN to defend Julien. It would have been better for RSD to listen to the suggestions that were given to them as things we starting to develop, instead of ignoring the community.

  50. I’ve been thinking about these false accusations for a while now and I must admit that for young men and soon every man out there there won’t be a reasonable solution to this. These days the accusations result in a witch hunt where no defense is allowed for college men. And it will expand to the whole society rather sooner than later.

    Until sanity amongst the judiciary returns you can’t escape. But sanity will involve that female witnesses can’t be trusted anymore, so the legal system has to get changed in some ways.

    It may well be that women use this tool to create drama but the damage done is collateral and I’m disgusted to see how inhuman women can be with no reason whatsoever. See, I’m a man of justice and reason and this doesn’t fit in my head.

  51. @Minter, as I’ve stated before, on an issue by issue basis I can get behind most of the MRM. I’m not sure how effectual they really are, and I think their insistency on allowing women to fight their battles for them belies a want to identify with the feminine for their intimate acceptance, but I get the point of the moment overall.

    That said, I will never fully endorse the MRM because their core ideology is one that’s still based on the idealistic hope that an egalitarian equalism can ever be possible between men and women. In my estimation the majority, the leadership and certainly the female MRAs (really anti-feminists) fundamentally want to be more ‘perfected’ feminists in that they want the balanced equalism feminists initially promoted as a goal, which is at odds with the complementary, evolved nature of the sexes.

    Every time there is a social gender crisis in the MSM that reflects on the manosphere the MRM exposes it’s true attitude towards the red pill by either distancing itself, throwing certain elements under the bus (PUA caricatures) or they make it an effort in a recruitment drive. You’ll forgive me for finding that disingenuous.

    Also, are these really the people you want to jump over the trenches with and follow into “battle”?

  52. I did this as at a hotel in western Ireland. Put on some shades, wrapped some sheepskin around my neck and got a few cut Bros to escort me around looking tough. Girls were screaming trying to touch me and the hotel staff went nuts with all the nose complaints trying to figure out what was going on.

  53. +1 each to johnnycomelately, boomerick, and atticus

    Hysteria = collective fantasy. Gaslighting/projection writ large.

    Half the Western World is going Cluster B.



    “62% of women have had a rape fantasy”



    “It’s desire emerging from this wanting to be wanted by somebody else, and I think, opening yourself up to the possibility of that process.”


    By every metric, men’s sperm counts and testosterone levels have been on the wane for decades.


  54. Also, are these really the people you want to jump over the trenches with and follow into “battle”?

    lol, no.

    Karen, god bless her, is the only woman on the internet who I might say, “gets it”. That said, she’s still not a man, and expecting her to speak for men is just plain foolish. Dean frankly strikes me as a blowhard.

  55. This is a great topic and a great post. I’ll just drop a short comment here.. whenever I’ve gotten into discussions with groups, or women about men and women being completely different, etc.. I simply ask: when have you ever sen men piss themselves over a famous female, the way women did for the beetles, or elvis or tom jones? I usually get sheepish grin and embarassed laughs. Women know that this behavior reveals something about thier basic natures.. something they learn to cover up and control, but something still there, driving them forward.
    Interestingly, in all my years – and yes even as a beta I would point this out as I found it fascinating- it’s the one time you can say something to a woman where she has no defense of blaming men.As we know, women will always find some way to blame someone else- usually men- for their behaviors and “feelings”, but in this one area it’s never happened, just seething anger, sheepish embarassed grin and nervous laughs.
    Try it.

  56. Jeremy : “Truth and logic don’t matter to the Fe-Dom. Only majority opinion. If the majority say that Thomas Elliot is a celebrity, that’s good enough. If a man is surrounded by attractive women (social proof) he must be attractive. “

    Which reminds me. Women simply don’t care what a man does, can do or can do well. It’s incomprehensible to them, his profession just a label.
    The swarm of hangers-on is the whole substance of the matter, that’s what really counts.

    So even a celebrated murderer or thief is sought out and adulated.
    The “celebrity” bit is the only thing counts, the “murderer” or “thief” bit sounds as irrelevant to them as “accountant”, or car-dealer”, no matter how prolific a killer or skilled a burglar he might be.

  57. “Thus we have hordes of girls and young women willing to go to behavioral lengths they would never consider with the mundane men they’re familiar with in order to just brush with the possibility of that hypergamous ideal. They will literally climb over one another to realize this.” This is definitely true. Just watch the Beatles movie A Hard Day’s Night.

  58. I’ve read all the comments above and Johnycomelately @ 11:58pm gets right at the heart of the matter:
    “The hysteria isn’t about genuine rape but the innate fear of having sex with low value men, the prevalence of ‘game’ simply adds to the hysteria.”

    All this talk about hysteria has its foundation in bio-evo (as with everything, really). Reading bio-evo studies and other bloggers on the matter has given me the impression that the Female Imperative is an honest one. Now, before anyone here accuses me of blasphemy, let me explain. (side note: I’m still trying to formulate this theory concisely so bear with me.)

    Open Hypergamy is a shot at honesty, no matter how you slice it. For anyone in the know, it’s no secret that women hold a sexual pluralistic strategy in their intersexual relations with men. Multiple studies confirm this so this is undeniable. In the past, women kept their pluralistic strategy under wraps, as this was necessary to keep men in the dark from their hypergamous natures. But, up until recently, we’re witnessing cases of women being very upfront and unapologetic about their strategy. Men, in turn, react to this honest attempt violently (in some cases) but little do they know women have always been this way.

    Now, even if the old male imperative were to come back, it would still be a negotiation of desire given all that we know. “How exactly is the Male Imperative a negotiation of desire?” You might ask. Well, the Male Imperative upheld assortative mating because it gave most men a shot at pussy. But clearly, this conflicted with a woman’s innate hypergamous drive. Women are inherently selective on who they mate with, selective to a point where they will even abstain from having sex with a beta male (re: the majority of males). From a strictly Alpha Fucks position, young women (the only ones who really matter for reproduction) will only select the top 15%-20% of men at any given time.

    Compound what I’ve stated above with, “Men lek(display) and females choose” and you start to really see things for what they are. Partially, that men are nature’s guinea pigs up for evolutionary testing. The fact that women choose is enough to acknowledge the fact that a female imperative was the initial imperative in the mating game. Make no mistake about it, our ancestors conquered it (for however brief period in time) and this gave birth to civilization as we know it. But as civilization deteriorates, so does the male imperative. One could even say the Male Imperative and civilization correspond with one another.

    “As Whisky used to say, ‘Women hate hate hate betas.’ And sex with a low value man is akin to rape.”

    Hypergamy is a ruthless mistress. So ruthless, that it will even wish death upon men with low mate value qualities. When women are left to their own devices, women will unapologetically weed lower value males without a second thought:


  59. The biological imperative is broken. The invention of reliable birth control has removed the only real obstacle to open unrestricted hypergamy.

    Since women want the best men, and men want more women there exists an impasse which was previously mitigated by sex=babies. Women had to settle for lesser men and men had chose one woman. But with sex=/=babies the system defaults to the FI. The only question now is striking a balance where we determine acceptable amounts of rape, regret rape, prostitution, and diminished male economic activity that are the price of open hypergamy. Or we allow for new form of labor compensation model to evolve to compell the men to keep working for the women without sexual compensation. The current social economic model of wages for labor and taxes to support women is not sustainable when women contribute nothing unique or valuable to the lives of the unwanted 80% of men.

  60. “young women (the only ones who really matter for reproduction) will only select the top 15%-20% of men at any given time”

    one has to be careful with this. Only 17% of women 25 and over have never been married, and about a quarter of these who are 25-34 are living with a partner. Likewise 23% of men 25 and over have never been married, and about a quarter of these who are 25-34 are living with a partner. This means that it is not 15-20% of men being fucked, but at least 83% of men 25 and over have been fucked at some point as part of a marriage or LTR. These means that beta fucks in some way, and that women do have babies with them. The Sheryl Sandberg quote (“nothing is sexier”) suggests women can successfully pretend for a while they have what they need in a mate, even it is not what they want.

    In addition as we can see by some examples above, women are somewhat flawed in selection, such as:

    “Me and my 6’4″ inside-linebacker built friend simply bookended him wherever we went. Our muted dark jackets and naturally stern faces played perfectly into our assumed role as his personal ‘security’.”

    Notice the 6’4 linebacker is ignored.

  61. @ redlight

    Yeah man, incels like me are a minority. I think there’s a big difference with getting ZERO SEX AT ALL over a period of YEARS vs. getting some, and having issues keeping girls if you’re kind of a mangina.

    All of the guys I know are currently getting laid and have gotten laid plenty of times in the past. Even though they’re having relationship problems and a lot of other issues, they just take the sex and touch/human contact for granted. All of them.

    This stuff is definitely true, and the culture has changed. The FI is real, things are not what they used to be, etc.

    But guys like me are getting hit the hardest. Through the practices I’ve done I’ve somehow managed to be pretty chill despite the complete lack of sex and even complete lack of touch over YEARS – year after year – and very little social interaction in my life. It’s like living in high class solitary confinement most of the time.

    But a lot of guys would do well to add Red Pill thinking to their relationships. Guys that either can’t get relationships or can’t get one night stands, or both – it’s tough to deal with that.

    I don’t think going apeshit is the answer. I do my best to be chill about it. Been trying to get some things going with girls, it’s been very slow.

    But guys that have had girlfriends and have had some success, and can find girls that are interested in them – don’t take it for granted. Use Red Pill knowledge and do the best you can.

    But it does piss me off when people that’re getting laid complain so much about their situation. I kind of wanted to punch my friend in the face when he was complaining about his girlfriend giving him shit for sleeping around with 3-4 different girls and how his life is a living hell because of it.

    I’m like, dude, I haven’t been touched by another human being in I can’t even remember how long. Let alone have sex. Shit pisses me off!

    But anger doesn’t help. I am privileged to have access to this stuff here at RM. I’d probably be completely fucked — not in the good way — if I never found this place.

    Definitely helping to keep me chill and relaxed and my mind centered. The past years of “failure” don’t mean shit once you make the decision to re-invent yourself. All that old beta stuff was someone I used to be. No more. Just letting it go and I’m in the process of making a brand new life for myself.

    And it’s good to keep this stuff in mind about “rape culture.” If I’m going to be going out and having sex I’ll have to be sharp about this stuff. Unfortunate but it’s the way it is these days. Gotta be up on what’s going on and stay smart and watch out for yourself, because no one else is going to.

  62. I really recommend the following article.

    It finally explains why there is such a hysteria about rape especially on college campuses.

    According to the Nation Crime Victimization Survey (Federal Survey) –
    ” the nationally representative sample conducted by the federal government to find rates of reported and unreported crime. For the years 1995 to 2011, as the University of Colorado Denver’s Rennison explained to me, it found that an estimated 0.8 percent of noncollege females age 18-24 revealed that they were victims of threatened, attempted, or completed rape/sexual assault. Of the college females that age during that same time period, approximately 0.6 percent reported they experienced such attempted or completed crime.”

    DID YOU SEE THAT??? – in college the rate of “sexual assault” is 0.6% that’s at a rate of 6 per 1000.

    OH AND the data grouping is for ” victims of threatened, attempted, or completed rape/sexual assault” OMG what is the REAL rate for Sexual Assault???!!!???

    SO HOW DO WE GET TO 1 in 5 or 20% of college gals getting sexually assaulted????
    It comes from a 2007 study funded by the National Institute of Justice, called the Campus Sexual Assault Study, or CSA.

    GET THE DATA GROUPING on this one!!!
    “The survey defined sexual assault as everything from nonconsensual sexual intercourse to such unwanted activities as “forced kissing,” “fondling,” and “rubbing up against you in a sexual way, even if it is over your clothes.””


    I am stunned that so much is made about this… and in reality it’s a LOW PERCENTAGE PROBLEM.

    Which gets to MY THEORY on why this is happening… the FEMI-ACTIVISTS _NEED_ this controversy to fuel further agendas.

    THEY NEED this to be a BIGGER issue than it really is… Thus the false stories.
    It’s all about moving the goal posts to further Male Beta-ization.

  63. Ang Aamer – “THEY NEED this to be a BIGGER issue than it really is… Thus the false stories.
    It’s all about moving the goal posts to further Male Beta-ization.”

    It’s a form gas lighting. Convince mostly harmless unwanted men they are the threat and hope they are persuaded to quit the SMP while still remaining economically productive.

    Rape culture/hysteria is the current price for complete unhindered female sexual freedom. This the FI’s current solution to both have cake and eat cake.

  64. I’ve lurked on these forums for a long time. And the wisdom has really helped me. Here’s a novel I recently saw on Amazon that seems to capture what is currently happening in our society. It’s set in a world where all males citizens have to accept treatment or be put to sleep. Here’s the link
    Imagine a world where men are required to accept treatment to remain in society. This is the world of Hyperpolis, a novel that is quite pertinent to the the current state of affairs.

  65. The rape hysteria also has a deeper motive, equalitarianism (high taxes and social distribution) has changed the economic ecology and altered the incentives for female bonding patterns.

    Several economists and anthropologists contend that society is transitioning from monogamy to serial monogamy (serial polygyny).

    For serial polygyny to be facilitated women require absolutely unfettered, unrestricted, unconditional, uncommitted, unrestrained, unmoralizing, independent and completely free and unqualified safe access to sexual free choice. Unbounded by contracts, agreements, social norms, moral restraints, religious injunctions, social ties, aesthetic norms, maternal obligations, infanticide (abortion), selling progeny (adoption) and economic restrictions.

    Anything that is deemed as restrictive is seen as limiting this choice, male spaces, employment obstacles, undesirable attention, unsafe neighbourhoods, male aesthetic standards, religion and of course RAPE.

    What we are seeing is ‘choice hysteria’, anytime someone somewhere restricts female sexual choice it is met with unbounded fury. Even centuries long legal precedents and wrongful inprisonment must acquiesce to facilitate free choice.

    Here are some quotes showing we are transitioning to serial polygyny.

    Murdock’s (1967) Ethnographic Atlas categorized just 16% of 862 cultures as exclusively monogamous, with polygamy being found at some level in the rest.

    A 2011 study from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control found that just 23% of women and 14.7% of men aged 25-44 had one (or zero) opposite-sex lifetime partners.

    Frank Marlowe, Biological Anthropology – Cambridge
    When males provide all the income but some have much more than others, richer males achieve polygyny, while ecologically imposed monogamy prevails in case of moderate inequality. When males provide an intermediate level of investment with little variation, females are not excessively dependent on males and serial monogamy may arise.

    David de la Croix, Professor of Economics
    In a society with few rich males and virtually no rich females, polygyny is supported by rich males, who can naturally monopolize a larger number of partners, and poor females, who prefer to be the n-th wife of a rich male rather than marrying a poor male monogamously.
    Eventually, however, the number of rich males increases enough, and poor females prefer to marry monogamously.
    Serial monogamy follows from a further enrichment of the society, through a rise in either the share of rich males, or the the proportion of rich females.

    Monique Mulder, Anthropology
    A key finding here is that while men do not benefit from multiple marriages, women do. Although the data are very variable (large standard errors), women appear to gain more from multiple mating than do men.

  66. The most interesting part to me is: why would “Jackie” come up with such an implausible story? Is she especially slow witted? I have a suspicion that this is a mentally unbalanced girl who actually believes this happened to her. Much like the false memory fad of the 1980s(?). You know, where people, with the proper prodding, “remembered” being forced to take part in satanic orgies in kindergarten.

  67. Mark Minter, you’re a great writer. Reading through Rollo’s old posts, I always looked forward to reading your comments. Then you stopped commenting. Glad to see you back.

  68. If we gave feminists every single thing they hysterically demanded tomorrow, I betcha they’d be back with a new set of demands the next day.

  69. @Rollo Definetly not, If you Nick and Roosh led some sort of political figure fighting for men I would definitely jump over the trenches with and follow into “battle”.

    It’s bullshit man and shit is literally hitting the fan as we speak.

  70. @badpainter

    The only question now is striking a balance where we determine acceptable amounts of rape, regret rape, prostitution, and diminished male economic activity that are the price of open hypergamy.

    Sounds like you are at the bargaining phase of the Kubler Ross five stages grief.

    There is not going to be any collective or individual decision making going on. What’s going to happen is what’s going to happen, and neither you nor anyone here will have any meaningful influence upon it, outside of keeping his own women in his personal sphere of life interested and (temporarily) in control.

    It’s really a male-socialist fantasy, all this talk about society “collapsing” and reinventing itself in a new glory day of men controlling the finances and therefore the pussy once again.

    Up to you if you ever want to get to the acceptance stage. But we men have no collectivist bargaining position here. We are each on our own.

  71. In addition as we can see by some examples above, women are somewhat flawed in selection, such as:

    “Me and my 6’4″ inside-linebacker built friend simply bookended him wherever we went. Our muted dark jackets and naturally stern faces played perfectly into our assumed role as his personal ‘security’.”

    Notice the 6’4 linebacker is ignored.

    This is another example of how the idea that physically attractive+socially dominant=alpha, all else=beta is so simplistic as to be wrong. Wrong and defeatist.

    A guy can play to his strengths, and build up and strengthen his weaknesses. A guy does NOT have to be attractive to successfully lek (display), and get genuine mate choice and receive equal or greater sexual attentions from attractive young women.

    There are many ways to hack the system. Relative status and social positioning being the most obvious.

  72. @Softek

    Through the practices I’ve done I’ve somehow managed to be pretty chill despite the complete lack of sex and even complete lack of touch over YEARS – year after year – and very little social interaction in my life. It’s like living in high class solitary confinement most of the time.

    I’ve been there. Solitary confinement can drive the best of us bonkers. I remember working very hard to increase my social interaction, with a calendar of continuing ed classes and everything I could think of to get out and mingle. But still I wasn’t getting what I psychologically NEEDED to be not merely at my best, but simply baseline mentally healthy.

    Did you ever consider a change of location? I bet six months or more in Thailand could get you some good experiences. Mind you they don’t hand out vouchers at the airport for top shelf pussy. You’ll still have to work, grow, practice, improve, rinse and repeat. And you will get fucked over. But you’ll also have higher relative social status.

  73. @xsplat
    “We are each on our own.”

    As I’ve always heard it put, “Every man wipes his own ass.” I think we’ve begun to hit a tipping point where men are starting to make individual decisions to abandon the current strategy in the sexual market place that we’ve all been taught. Whether that strategy is MGTOW or TRP -> Game, the momentum is growing rapidly. I would say among older guys (late 20s and up) it’s starting to become impossible to ignore. The younger guys will see it, wonder what’s up, start asking questions, and probably make the same choices.

    Either way, no I don’t think society will collapse, but I predict that the feminist philosophy of trying to continue squeezing blood from a stone is going to continue to hurt women more than men. Every SIW SATC fan will watch as her cooch and her prospects dry up with age. Every young chick will find it impossible to nail down a guy because every dude that didn’t go his own way will be swimming in prime ass.

    I think the only thing that will change really from here on will be how the beta population looks. All that will be left is the most clueless, the weakest, the least able to think for themselves. The absolute worst of the worst bottom of the barrel bitch boys. We’re talking toxic level betas. They will be untouchable, and even men won’t blame women for not wanting them. Player will increase some. MGTOW will increase a lot more, as I don’t think the majority of modern men have it in them to learn Game.

    But women won’t realize their mistake. They won’t take responsibility for it. It’s not in their nature. They will blame men keep pushing for more, and there will be no more left to be given short of imprisoning men for not producing enough. Perhaps they’ll further criminalize male poverty at that point in order to try and “motivate” the lower classes. I honestly think the preview of what will happen over the next 20 years is Japan right now. As male economic, psychological, and sexual prospects continue to fall, the birth rate will fall. Women won’t know how to legislate men in to increasing the birth rate.

    In all honesty, I think the problem will be self-correcting in the long run. 30 or 40 years down the road, as the population is falling off a cliff, women will be begging men collectively to come back. The birth rate might bounce back a bit, but men will chafe at the horrible laws still in place and check out again.

    Only after that do I think the laws might change, sensibility might return, and society might recover. No matter if I’ve got the specifics right or not, I bet you this: it will not be explosive or revolutionary or a collapse suddenly. There will be no suddenness to any of it. It will be a slow crumbling decay. It will be depressing, soul-sapping, and sad to watch. It will not be dynamic. We’ll just continue the slow fade we’ve been doing on the world stage for the past few decades.

    This is what a young country’s adolescence looks like. I think, when it’s all said and done a couple generations for now, America will finally be a mature nation. Belief in American Exceptionalism will become collective humility, and we might find our way again. At least that’s what I hope.

  74. @ redlight:

    What I’m getting at is that there is a real primal biological desire for women to fulfill their alpha fucks strategy far more than their beta bucks strategy (at least in the west). When a women gets married to a beta, it’s typically because she’s giving in to her further limiting options as she gets older. This also goes without saying, but it’s also usually after she’s been passed around for free by alphas in her prime years.

    As for the ignored linebacker, we need to start looking at things as whole and not anecdotal experiences from others.

    @ Johnycomelately:

    Have a look at the following links below, they should interest you:



    @ xsplat
    I’m not much for extremes, but men who are physically attractive and socially dominant have far more leeway in the sexual market place than unattractive, socially dominant individuals do. Especially in areas where the ecological pressures for both sexes (namely females) are relaxed. There’s a reason for your success in Thailand and it has a lot to do with the amount of ecological prosperity (or lack thereof).

  75. xsplat – “It’s really a male-socialist fantasy, all this talk about society “collapsing” and reinventing itself…”

    I think Sun Wukong neatly summarizes my position in his comment above.

  76. @Sun Wukong, your projections don’t take into account the wild card of technological change.

    Society follows upon opportunity, and opportunity follows upon technology.

    Agrarian technology ushered in dramatic social changes. The industrial revolution ushered in more. The pill and the service economy ushered in more.

    If we could forecast that there will not be any more major socially disrupting new technologies, then we can tree to see our horizons. But I personally don’t see that as likely at all.

    We are going to start to see some very major technological shifts that will dramatically change culture, in ways far more profound than feminism ever has.

    Genetic engineering of ourselves and offspring, surgical remolding as well as biological grafts, computer implants, and yes, even the borg.

    If you are looking 60 years into the future and not even thinking about technology then you are thinking that history is cyclical.

    Technology is not cyclical.

    History is not cyclical.

    Social changes are not cyclical.

    I’m old enough to have lived pre internet and pre cell phone. Nobody imagined our current future. It was a surprise.

    We will have surprises FAR more disruptive on society than feminism.

  77. As for my personal strategy, MGTOW remains a backup plan. I give myself a 50/50 chance of being able to make game work for me. I almost learned it too late. He’ll maybe it is too late. But I’m going to turn 38 next month, I’m making more money than I’ve ever made (and still aiming upwards), I’m better at the social games people play the I ever been, and my Game experiments on very average plates have gone well. I plan to hit the gym hard this winter and be hitting the streets more come summer. Hopefully I can find a good wingman by then.

    I feel a great deal of optimism about my own situation. I owe Rollo a thank you for helping me assemble all the pieces I’ve been collecting the past 10 years. I ever run in to you out there, the drinks are on me, bro.

  78. In other words, adapt or don’t. If people think they have witnessed big cultural shifts, and are hoping for things to swing back around, they’ve got it ALL wrong.

    We aint seen nothin yet.

    The changes have only barely begun.

  79. Sex robots. Resource wars that could touch impact on our physical safety and use unfamiliar weapons, such as bio-tech, micro-drones, and autonomous robots.

    Mind controlling implants. Brain upgrades.

    Even in the last few years facebook and tinder have changed society. Forty years ago that was not a prediction.

    Forty years from now the battle of the sexes will be held on a vastly different landscape. What having a baby even means will be vastly different; genes will no longer be a matter of paternity and maternity alone.

    And the effect of native genes will be vastly different. We will be altering our own genetic makeup after being born. As well as our appearance, and organs, and senses, and even how our very brains and thought processes function.

    Society will be connected up in new ways we have never imagined.

    People think sexting is an issue. Brain-wifi all-senses connected international sex orgy anyone? What is your chosen avatar?

  80. My point of injecting this pragmatic uncertainty into the dialogue is to point out that in order to live strategically, our short and medium term goals must include working with the system as it is. Our long term goals should include being in the best possible position to adapt. And that for me means increasing wealth as much as possible.

    Nowhere is it pragmatically useful to plan for a future in which the battle of the sexes continues to be waged in our current techlogical landscape.

    That present is ALREADY the past. The present is history. This landscape won’t be where the battle happens.

    It will be a DIFFERENT battle.

  81. @xsplat
    Counting on a deus ex machina to bring about a change in this aspect of society is missing the entire process it has gone through to get here. Technology never changed feminism for the past 40 years. It spread it faster, but it didn’t change the nature of it. It certainly didn’t change the nature of women either.

    Perhaps genetic engineering will remove the need for both parents, but cloning is incredibly unwise. If it does change the game that much, the change would have come about regardless of feminism’s influence or lack thereof. It certainly won’t be making inroads within 20 years strictly due to societal objections.

    Also, between now and then they won’t be engineering out the human need for sexual contact and emotional bonding, and that’s what drives the whole thing. The nature of humans has not changed despite all that technology. And as I already stated, even if I get the details wrong, I know my general idea is right: no change coming down the pipe will make it better. If anything, it will only make it worse or (in the case of the Internet, for instance) accelerate time tables.

    It won’t change human nature. That hasn’t changed for thousands of years. Also, note that I said “I think” about the whole idea. I know the world can change, but I know how the parts you wish would change have a frustrating habit of staying the same.

Speak your mind

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