One of the most endemic masculine pitfalls men have faced since the rise of feminine social primacy has been the belief that their ready displays of emotional vulnerability will make men more desirable mates for women.
In an era when men are raised from birth to be “in touch with their feminine sides”, and in touch with their emotions, we get generations of men trying to ‘out-emote’ each other as a mating strategy.
To the boys who grow into Beta men, the ready eagerness with which they’ll roll over and reveal their bellies to women comes from a conditioned belief that doing so will prove their emotional maturity and help them better identify with the women they mistakenly believe have a capacity to appreciate it.
What they don’t understand is that the voluntary exposing of ones most vulnerable elements isn’t the sign of strength that the Feminine Imperative has literally bred a belief of into these men.
A reflexive exposing of vulnerability is an act of submission, surrender and a capitulation to an evident superior. Dogs will roll over almost immediately when they acknowledge the superior status of another dog.
Vulnerability is not something to be brandished or proud of. While I do believe the insight and acknowledgement of your personal vulnerabilities is a necessary part of understanding oneself (particularly when it comes to unplugging oneself), it is not the source of attraction, and certainly not arousal, that most men believe it is for women.
From the comfort of the internet and polite company women will consider the ‘sounds-right’ appeal of male vulnerability with regard to what they’re supposed to be attracted to, but on an instinctual, subconscious level, women make a connection with the weakness that vulnerability represents.
A lot of men believe that trusting displays of vulnerability are mutually exclusive of displays of weakness, but what they ignore is that Hypergamy demands men that can shoulder the burden of performance. When a man openly broadcasts his vulnerableness he is, by definition, beginning from a position of weakness.
The problem with idealizing a position of strength is in thinking you’re already beginning from that strength and your magnanimous display of trusting vulnerability will be appreciated by a receptive woman. I strongly disagree with assertions like those of various Purple Pill ‘life coaches’ that open, upfront vulnerability is ever attractive to a woman.
The idea goes that if a man is truly outcome-independent with his being rejected by a woman, the first indicator of that independence is a freedom to be vulnerable with her. The approach then becomes one of “hey, I’m just gonna be my vulnerable self and if you’re not into me then I’m cool with that.”
The hope is that a woman will receive this approach as intended and find something refreshing about it, but the sad truth is that if this were the attraction key its promoters wish it was, every guy ‘just being himself‘ would be swimming in top shelf pussy. This is a central element to Beta Game – the hope that a man’s openness will set him apart from ‘other guys’ – it is common practice for men who believe in the equalist fantasy that women will rise above their feral natures when it comes to attraction, and base their sexual selection on his emotional intelligence.
The fact is that there is no such thing as outcome independence. The very act of your approaching a woman means you have made some effort to arrive at a favorable outcome with her. The fact that you’d believe a woman would even find your vulnerability attractive voids any pretense of outcome independence.
Hypergamy Doesn’t Care About Male Vulnerability
When I wrote Women in Love and the followups, Men in Love and Of Love and War, I described men’s concept of love as ‘idealistic’.
Naturally, simple minds exaggerated this into “men just want an impossible unconditional love” or “they want love like they think their mothers loved them.” For what it’s worth, I don’t believe any rational man with some insight ever expects an unconditional love, but I think it’s important to consider that a large part of what constitutes his concept of an idealized love revolves around being loved irrespective of how he performs for, or merits that love.
From Of Love and War:
We want to relax. We want to be open and honest. We want to have a safe haven in which struggle has no place, where we gain strength and rest instead of having it pulled from us. We want to stop being on guard all the time, and have a chance to simply be with someone who can understand our basic humanity without begrudging it. To stop fighting, to stop playing the game, just for a while.
We want to, so badly.
If we do, we soon are no longer able to.
The concept of men’s idealistic love, the love that makes him the true romantic, begins with a want of freedom from his burden of performance. It’s not founded in an absolute like unconditional love, but rather a love that isn’t dependent upon his performing well enough to assuage a woman’s Hypergamous concept of love.
Oh, the Humanity!
As the true romantics, and because of the performance demands of Hypergamy, there is a distinct want for men to believe that in so revealing their vulnerabilities they become more “human” – that if they expose their frailties to women some mask they believe they’re wearing comes off and (if she’s a mythical “quality woman“™) she’ll excuses his inadequacies to perform to the rigorous satisfaction of her Hypergamy.
The problems with this ‘strength in surrender’ hope are twofold.
First, the humanness he believes a woman will respect isn’t the attraction cue he believes it is. Ten minutes perusing blogs about the left-swiping habits of women using Tinder (or @Tinderfessions) is enough to verify that women aren’t desirous of the kind of “humanness” he’s been conditioned to believe women are receptive to.
In the attraction and arousal stages, women are far more concerned with a man’s capacity to entertain her by playing a role and presenting her with the perception of a male archetype she expects herself to be attracted to and aroused by. Hypergamy doesn’t care about how well you can express your humanness, and primarily because the humanness men believe they’re revealing in their vulnerability is itself a predesigned psychological construct of the Feminine Imperative.
Which brings us to the second problem with ‘strength in surrender’. The caricaturized preconception men have about their masculine identity is a construct of a man’s feminine-primary socialization.
The Masks the Feminine Imperative Makes Men Wear
To explain this second problem it’s important to grasp how men are expected to define their own masculine identities within a social order where the only correct definition of masculinity is prepared for men in a feminine-primary context.
What I mean by this is that the humanness that men wish to express in showing themselves as vulnerable is defined by feminine-primacy.
For the greater part of men’s upbringing and socialization they are taught that a conventional masculine identity is in fact a fundamentally male weakness that only women have a unique ‘cure’ for. It’s a widely accepted manosphere fact that over the past 60 or so years, conventional masculinity has become a point of ridicule, an anachronism, and every media form from then to now has made a concerted effort to parody and disqualify that masculinity. Men are portrayed as buffoons for attempting to accomplish female-specific roles, but also as “ridiculous men” for playing the conventional ‘macho’ role of masculinity. In both instances, the problems their inadequate maleness creates are only solved by the application of uniquely female talents and intuition.
Perhaps more damaging though is the effort the Feminine Imperative has made in convincing generations of men that masculinity and its expressions (of any kind) is an act, a front, not the real man behind the mask of masculinity that’s already been predetermined by his feminine-primary upbringing.
Women who lack any living experience of the male condition have the calculated temerity to define for men what they should consider manhood – from a feminine-primary context. This is why men’s preconception of vulnerability being a sign of strength is fundamentally flawed. Their concept of vulnerability stems from a feminine pretext.
Masculinity and vulnerability are defined by a female-correct concept of what should best serve the Feminine Imperative. That feminine defined masculinity (tough-guy ridiculousness) feeds the need for defining vulnerability as a strength – roll over, show your belly and capitulate to that feminine definition of masculinity – and the cycle perpetuates itself.
“The Mask You Live In” by director Jennifer Siebel Newsom (dual surname noted) is the perfect example of this perpetuation. You have a woman deciding for a larger public in a documentary what the male experience is and then solving the problem (i.e. the tired trope of men needing to get more in touch with their emotions) for men.
Men are ridiculous posers. Men are socialized to wear masks to hide what the Feminine Imperative has decided is their true natures (they’re really girls wearing boy masks). Men’s problems extend from their inability to properly emote like women, and once they are raised better (by women and men who comply with the Feminine Imperative) they can cease being “tough” and get along better with women. That’s the real strength that comes from men’s feminized concept of vulnerability – compliance with the Feminine Imperative.
Ironically Newsom is still oblivious to the fact that she can only create such a documentary in an environment of feminine-primacy. No man could produce this and be taken seriously in our contemporary social climate.
It’s indictment of the definers of what masculinity ought to be that they still characterize modern masculinity (based on the ‘feels’) as being problematic when for generations our feminine-primary social order has conditioned men to associate that masculinity in as feminine-beneficial a context as women would want.
They still rely on an outdated formula which presumes the male experience is inferior, a sham, in comparison to the female experience, and then presumes to know what the male experience really is and offers feminine-primary solutions for it.
From The 16 Commandments of Poon:
IV. Don’t play by her rules
If you allow a woman to make the rules she will resent you with a seething contempt even a rapist cannot inspire. The strongest woman and the most strident feminist wants to be led by, and to submit to, a more powerful man. Polarity is the core of a healthy loving relationship. She does not want the prerogative to walk all over you with her capricious demands and mercurial moods. Her emotions are a hurricane, her soul a saboteur. Think of yourself as a bulwark against her tempest. When she grasps for a pillar to steady herself against the whipping winds or yearns for an authority figure to foil her worst instincts, it is you who has to be there… strong, solid, unshakeable and immovable.
True vulnerability is not a value-added selling point for a man when it comes to approaching and attracting women. As with all things, your vulnerability is best discovered by a woman through demonstration –never explaining those vulnerabilities to her with the intent of appearing more human as the feminine would define it.
Women want a bulwark against their own emotionalism, not a co-equal male emoter whose emotionalism would compete with her own. The belief that male vulnerability is a strength is a slippery slope from misguided attraction to emotional codependency, to overt dependency on a woman to accommodate and compensate for the weaknesses that vulnerability really implies.
I know a lot of guys think that displays vulnerability from a position of Alpha dominance, or strength can be endearing for a woman when you’re engaged in an LTR, but I’m saying that’s only the case when the rare instance of vulnerability is unintentionally revealed. Vulnerability is not a strength, and especially not when a man deliberately reveals it with the expectation of a woman appreciating it as a strength.
At some point in any LTR you will show your vulnerable side, and there’s nothing wrong with that. What’s wrong is the overt attempt to parlay that vulnerability into a strength or virtue that you expect that woman to appreciate, feel endearment over or reciprocate with displays of her own vulnerability for.
A chink in the armor is a weakness best kept from view of those who expect you to perform your best in all situations. If that chink is revealed in performing your best, then it may be considered a strength for having overcome it while performing to your best potential. It is never a strength when you expect it to be appreciated as such.
Is there any possible good motive for encouraging someone to be more vulnerable to an adversary in the absence of any evidence that the adversary is making nice?
re: prohibiting defenses.
Since the new versions of YMY prohibit the filming of consent, and since consent can now be explicitly withdrawn retroactively anyway, the law has (theoretically) removed any actual defense, strictly in order to make it more adversarial he-said-she-said, and to make the man more vulnerable. It’s all about forcing the men to be sexually fearful, sexually vulnerable, sexually violated. There is no other reason.
Your happiness should come from your primal energy and the strength, calmness and optimism that it gives you. The woman submits to this energy and gives you a helper and someone who can inject the necessary feminine energy to diversify your life. Appreciate her for what she does, because it can definitely improve your life. Just don’t expect something that can’t be given.
@ jf12 on YMY:
if that is true I’ll have to recall my thoughts that it couldn’t possibly get any worse. There is just one word for it: insanity. They really try to push the envelope here.
I’m glad I don’t live in CA but many have noted before that it won’t be to far fetched that this will be the law for the whole country one day.
Nothing can save us guys, because there is no rational solution to circumvent conviction not even a signed contract will do.
In case you thought YMY was only limited to on-campus consensual sex rape allegations:
Yeah Rollo: You’re right about the “rape by fraud” bill being introduced in NJ, but I can report it’s already being laughed at in the Star-Ledger. I suspect it won’t go anywhere beyond click-bait andf TV bloviating. Though I note its “supporter” – an “author” who got taken in by some PUA’s “I’m a CEO” story – justifies the “rape” designation for what happened to her, saying that “sexual assaults can occur in many ways. Not all of them violent.” If that’s not YMY to the limit, I don’t know what is. Let’s cut the crap and just outlaw fornication… Read more »
*You’re (gets me every time)
@ jf12 re: “One Thing women get so wrong is that women DO coddle the men they love. Women LOVE to coddle alphas. Alphas aren’t out there fearlessly leading invulnerably; alphas are in the warm bath getting their backs scratched by some unpaid geishas while other unpaid geishas soapily slither around their fronts.” Thank you for correcting me. You’re right. And also pointing out women’s COMPLETE hypocrisy about this. The FI doesn’t want alpha-aspiring guys to be alpha. They want them to stay where they are, and think that coddling is for weak, baby men. When in reality, genuine coddling… Read more »
“I’ve commented enough here, not to mention elsewhere, enough to reveal a large number of obvious strengths and clear vulnerabilities.”
Yes, it is just a matter of time until a young attractive female commenter here lusts after you and wants to marry you.
But what you need to do is only hint indirectly at the vulnerability by producing large numbers of words ranting how tough and invulnerable you are.
jf12 – “Is there any possible good motive for encouraging someone to be more vulnerable to an adversary in the absence of any evidence that the adversary is making nice?” Yes. From the Manson understanding of vulnerability as risk the point would be to get one to stand up for one’s self despite the obvious risk. Carried to an extreme the vulnerabilities of both are that someone will lose. Accepting and facing the risk is masculine, fretting and doing nothing but seeking external comfort is feminine. An adversary that doesn’t make nice must be destroyed, or surrendered to there are… Read more »
He presumes a default weakness in men from a feminine defined context of masculinity.
And underlying this is the pedestalization of women.
I wish I had more time to write a cogent response to this article, because there’s so much to talk about here. As far as my own experience goes, I firmly believe in NEVER showing any vulnerability to any woman, anywhere or under any circumstances. Instead, I just read an article over at Slate that obliquely references this post’s topic: http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/11/hanna_rosin_and_laura_kipnis_chat_about_men_and_men_an_ongoing_investigation.html‘ And a real shocker is inadvertently dropped about half-way through the piece, and I quote Laura Kipnis: “There’s a lot of violence in the world and most of it is directed against men. Yet women feel themselves at their… Read more »
When I first wrote that I was making humor, but actually I have seen that phenomenon in my life with a friend of mine.
If you act like a jerk, women will create a narrative about the vulnerabilities that you’re (tragically) trying to hide. The benefit is that the imagined vulnerabilities will be their favorites, and you don’t actually have to show any because she makes them up for you.
A woman working outside of the home doesn’t mean she is trying to take over the world, it is just something that some women enjoy doing, and it can add value to the economy and the family.
What would happen to wages if 90% of women left the workforce?
Softek – “You have to take on a new identity. And that doesn’t mean abandoning yourself. It means integrating your past experiences, learning from them, and becoming a better, evolved version of yourself.” It sees to me the only real change is taking ownership of your identity. You must be able to resist the corrosive effects of both criticism and praise. Praise being particularly destructive if you come to rely on it. For example I am a bad painter. I love the process and am never happy with the results. Others, friends, family, random people who have seen my work… Read more »
theasdgamer – “What would happen to wages if 90% of women left the workforce?”
Wages would rise substantially but the economy would shrink dramatically. Credit markets would collapse, banking would implode, the country would be in dire straights for awhile until a new equilibrium was reached. I say we try it.
Jezebel would go bankrupt, along with most liberal publications. Liberals would leave politics. Women would make sammiches if they wanted frivolous stuff from a man. Compliance regulations would have to be dropped.
Women would have to do their chores or have to leave. Homes would be cleaner and healthier. Food would be healthier.
@jacklabear, re: “The benefit is that the imagined vulnerabilities will be their favorites, and you don’t actually have to show any because she makes them up for you.”
Oh, I like this: the virtual peacock tail. She just has to imagine there’s some vulnerability you’re trying to hide.
Oh the tangled webs … that indicate the FI. “Women would follow you, you moron! if you simply didn’t care if women followed you!”
It’s simply not true, ever, that the most effective leader is the one that cares the least whether he is followed. There is no such principle, because there can be no such principle.
Whatis always true, however, is that pretzel logic is needed to try to justify women’s behaviors.
Everything about attraction is about polarity. Women see feminine behavior in the same unattractive fashion as men see masculine behavior in women. Masculinity is selfish, demanding, determined, and unsentimental. Any man with a mission life will incorporate those traits naturally and see them as positives. Women will follow. Then decide whom you want in your life.
re: “Masculinity is selfish, demanding, determined, and unsentimental.”
Would to God that women were less masculine than men, then! Seriously, you think 99% of women are LESS selfish than 99% of men?
A woman’s generosity can only come out in the presence of a selfish man who demands submission to his will. She will then yearn to please him.
It would be interesting to catalog here our perceptions of women’s specificaly female vulnerabilities.
1. Women hate to be considered as being mannish.
2. Women are very easy to fool about men’s emotions.
3. Women really don’t know what they want and are very susceptible to suggestion.
4. Women cave instantly when made fearful.
5. Women greatly suffer from Freudian envy in all its forms.
I’m sure there’s many more.
The lastest word is that men do NOT over-perceive women’s interest, but that women are extremely lousy at self-reporting, as evidence by women ratting out other women.
“both men and women believe that other women will under-report their sexual intentions and, given that the men’s average perceptions remained consistent across studies and women’s continuously shifting in the direction of the men’s average, that the men’s perceptions were probably accurate in the first place.”
“Women greatly suffer from Freudian envy in all its forms.
I’m sure there’s many more.”
A few of us men stopped shaving our upper lips for Movember to raise funds or awareness of prostate cancer.
In a small company of ~25 people, so far two women have said to me “I can grow a moustache too”. To which I replied “You aren’t going to win any contests”.
6. Women are extremely susceptible to opening with instant sexualization and brisk escalation.
7. Women hate knowing they are their own biggest blind spot.
@jacklabear re: moustache
Yes, a lot of women vastly overestimate their facial hair achievements, including eyebrows and eyelashes btw. I’m not the least bothered by a relatively few lip wisps myself.
New Yorker says
8. Women are vulnerable to men being selfish and demanding.
re: rape-by-fraud laws.
At least five states already have rape-by-fraud statutes
and almost ten more have criminalized sexual deceit by case law.
An acquaintance used to be a police officer in a conflict ridden country, once he was kidnapped by terrorists, beaten, stripped naked and locked up in a private house in enemy territory to be executed. Fortunately the fog of war left him unattended and a humane local released him and he trekked naked through enemy territory by night to reach his side. After that incident he had bouts of bed wetting, how do I know? His fucking wife blabbed about his insecurities to other women. So much for intimacy. Moral of the story never show fear. Intimacy is for children.… Read more »
Showed me vulnerability to the ex way back when. She married me anyway, but the sex mostly went away and the fitness tests ramped up hard. After a few years, I was still blue pill, but I had all I could take and moved out. Stunningly enough, she was incredulous that I would do that. I can only conclude she had to be living in her own little fantasy world in which there were no consequences to her for treating me the way she did. Long after we separated, when I started stumbling into red pill knowledge, she once said… Read more »
re: “Masculinity is selfish, demanding, determined, and unsentimental.”
Exactly as it should be. It’s the only way to protect yourself. Women sure don’t have your back.
Vulnerability and intimacy both require a key ingredient….trust. Once trust is gone, it’s gone.
Masculinity is not so much a way to protect yourself as just a better and more uninhibited way to be on an emotional level. I don’t expect equalist intimacy with a woman. I expect a moment of closeness with someone who provides something different. But she cannot be expected to understand you. It is not even fair to ask. She can love and support you in what you are trying to do…but don’t expect her to react well to an event which shows that she chose a man to lead her who is not as strong as he seemed. Her… Read more »
@Random Angeleno ‘Don’t have any close male friends you can talk to? That is bad news, you need to cultivate at least one, your woman cannot be your confidante for this stuff.’ The Feminine Imperative wants to take away and intrude on all male spaces to systematically isolate men from each other. “Girls night out” is a socially acceptable positive concept as it applies to women, but “Boys night out” has negative connotations of misbehavior. I agree, it is very important for a man to have male friends, especially have bonds with their fathers, uncles, and brothers if possible, We… Read more »
Another brilliant post from Rollo. To attract a woman a man needs most or all of these things. A) He must be taller than she is B) He must be stronger than she is C) He must be smarter than she is D) He must be more talented than she is E) He must be wealthier than she is F) He must have a higher status than she has Essentially he must be superior to her in every way. If he is not superior she will not be attracted to him. Nowhere in that list does vulnerability come up. Girls… Read more »
This may be an extreme example but I’m watching this story unfold with some interest. Last Australian NRL football season, a young and up and coming player was badly spear-tackled, broke is neck and is now facing life as a quadriplegic. The interesting twist that might be relevant for this post, is that he was in a relationship with his girlfriend for 3 or so years prior to the accident, and then within days of being paralysed – lying in a hospital bed unable to move – he asks his girlfriend to marry him. This was huge in the MSM… Read more »
BP: credit, banking, finance… usury is the enemy of liberty. The sooner we abolish such evils the better. Those who make their living off usury should face the wall like lawyers
@ CrazylittleRealityBiters – Hi girls. So listen, let me make my case more clearly. It seemed to me that you two are both essentially uni-directional traditionalists. However, in a world where I can’t tell you how scared I am, I also get to tell you both to shut the fuck up and in such a world, it actually occurs to you to listen. In a world with equanimity, that would be so. But the world we live in now has only demands for men, with loads of disrespect and denigration. So, we aren’t playing. You both fail to see the… Read more »
SfcTon – “Those who make their living off usury should face the wall like lawyers.”
I agree. In 2008 I was advocating, such as I could, to let it burn. The period of readjustment would be rough, but the opportunities far outweigh the risks. However our feminized society has zero tolerance for risk, and thus no chance to survive.
In an environment with unchecked hypergamy, you can either a) complain about it and “go your own way” out of bitterness, or b) adapt and decide to have plenty of unattached sex or keep a woman interested in marriage (if kids are important to you). I don’t see unchecked hypergamy going anywhere, no matter how much you cry about it. So, adapt or be bitter, your choice. She is speaking for the collective. Do you guys honestly believe women can be allowed freedom and the average man can survive? Can civilization survive? They don’t give a shit about you. Got… Read more »
All I can think of is this part of a comedy sketch I saw a while ago. It says it all, and so much more. I had a good laugh tonight.
Guy: “Shut up.”
Girl: “But I was trying to say that –”
Guy: “No. Just shut up.”
BP LOL liberty is risky, dangerous and wild. Like men should be.
Bnago Tango. I do not. Which is why my homestead is as much compound as hearth
“So that is one of my biggest takeaways from that relationship: don’t show vulnerability. Unless it is done from a position of strength and even then, only for a moment and only when there is no stress, that’s it. Can never be showing vulnerability in periods of stress. Need someone to talk to? Talk to your close male friends, but make sure they will keep it confidential, do not want them blabbing about it then it gets back to your woman. Don’t have any close male friends you can talk to? That is bad news, you need to cultivate at… Read more »
“Bnago Tango. I do not. Which is why my homestead is as much compound as hearth”.
Shit. That answers that. Good one. 🙂
Life is dangerous, we’ve all become too soft to appreciate the beauty, and potential in the danger.
When time comes I’ve got some lovely land picked in eastern Colorado to bury our various social parasites and Marxists. I suppose y’all will just toss ’em back in an out of the way holler.
Bangor Tango – “…how could you give a rats ass about a creature who will laugh and smile with you in good times, act warm and caring and within a blink of an eye hate you, literally hate you! because you dropped your guard for a second. It’s like if men had a requirement of women that they be pretty and lady like ALL THE TIME.” Your question answers itself. You aren’t allowed to drop your guard, she isn’t allowed to gain weight, nag, wear sweat pants round you, or talk about nails for more than 15 minutes a day.… Read more »
The women commenters here have said, basically, “Yes, women cannot be trusted. But it’s just they way we are, so you’ll just have to live with it.” Women use their lack of trustworthiness as yet another shit test.
“When time comes I’ve got some lovely land picked in eastern Colorado to bury our various social parasites and Marxists.
Let’s hope the Injuns don’t want it back, then.
No state=No State (and precious few arms manuf’s., eventually. Well, apart from foreign marxist ones, I suppose)
BP, here is my take on soft living and in a real way my blog is pretty much about how soft living produces fucked up men
Naw bro I’ll feed them to the HellHounds.
Bango Tango LOL yea don’t usually have to second guess where I stand on any topic do I? Oddly enough part of why I have a poly home is because I am forted up
Injun’s aren’t ever gonna be a problem again.
Tam, I don’t know if ever traveled in the US, but west of the Mississppi river it’s mostly empty. Therefore it’s mostly self sufficient if you remove the bureaucratic roadblocks.
I’ve been reading your blog for the past several months. You’re my Zen master of the practical. In fact I’ve been invoking your name to limit the amount of navel gazing I do, a quick “what would ‘ton do?” and the action answer magically appears. So I thank you for your hard headed, no BS commentary.
re: US population density map
If I had to take an educated guess, Badpainter was talking about the treeless range lands covering a thousand square miles. The US has what would be the world’s best grazing areas, such as the Comanche National Grasslands.
re: What Would Ton Do?
9. Women are vulnerable to male violence.
The best defense is a good offense. Many moderners would claim that violence is a coverup for feelings of vulnerability. But I think those moderners are projecting their own feelings of *being* vulnerable to violence.
The mere notion of any responsibility for an adult relationship on her part clearly vexed her.
TAALT (They Are All Like That)
Perhaps the finest, single 40 minute television script I have ever seen is Episode 10, Season 1, of Mad Men, “The Long Weekend.” This episode is about vulnerability and death. A lot of things happen, but the second act ends with Roger Sterling, the rakish, muscled libertine lying nude on the floor of his office with a young girl not his wife; Don Draper, the show’s protagonist, is at this time sitting quietly in his office with the girl’s sister, whom he has refused to indulge. Draper kicks the girls out, raises the ambulance, and as the dying Roger is… Read more »
Guy: “Shut up.” Girl: “But I was trying to say that –” Guy: “No. Just shut up.” I have that conversation with the first mate – frequently. What follows is a period of me cutting her off. She gets incredibly needy. The cycle starts again. “We never do romantic things anymore”. Well of course not. I long ago gave up hope that you would work to stay bonded. When you do bond you are a cunt. When you break up you are nothing. The least show of affection on my part causes things to go down hill. I am red-pilling… Read more »
Buea Vista – “Vulnerability is death and trumps any presumed intimacy.”
Nothing more to say after that.
BuenaVista November 26th, 2014 at 10:00 am Thanks for that. It reminded me of my early interactions with my first mate. I too had a difficult childhood and was putting it past me. I had no past. An interesting way to live. And it drove the first mate nuts. Because of her difficult childhood she was desperate for “family” and a man who would be her protector. I have the misfortune/good fortune of actually liking her. I try to keep it hidden as much as possible. Especially when she breaks up – which is usually minor and short term. Because… Read more »
But I guess you are just like all the rest
BP, I am honored an humbled.
Yea BV is killer at this shit
LOL JF12 I get accused of being a caricature all the time. Pretty damn funny that men can no longer imagine unapologetic, unrepentant and unreconstructed masculinity
sfcton November 25th, 2014 at 10:22 pm It has its place. Civilizations that can use it generally advance faster than those that don’t. We used to have boom/bust cycles to keep it in check and weed out those who bet too often on losers. But the bankers got control and now they just get refinanced. There is no hurt to check their worst tendencies. The real answer IMO is smaller government. Much smaller government. And end the Fed. The remit of the Fed is to iron out the boom bust cycles. The cure of course being worse than the disease.… Read more »
The flip side of this problem, I’ll admit, is that I really can’t stand it when someone promises transcendental, perfect acceptance of me in all my imperfections. I immediately smell a rat. I didn’t use to but I’ve too much experience now. This may be my limitation or an intimation of truth. (An example is a local pastor whose church I attended, until I didn’t. There were a few reasons, but I lost all respect for him and his elders one day. We were having lunch, which he starts by saying, “So, BV, how is your *soul*…” as though I… Read more »
@BV, do yourself a favor and don’t watch ‘The Mask You Live In’ documentary I linked in this post – you’ll lose all hope for humanity.
It kills me to read confessionals like this and then see a woman like Jennifer Siebel Newsom earn accolades for a documentary about a masculinity she has neither the experience nor the authority to ever make a presumption about.
@Bango Tango… MY POINT EXACTLY. In asking that question, you provided your own answer. From my perspective the whole “opening up and showing your emotions, humanity” nonsense is the biggest shit test I’ve even went through and failed, because I didn’t realize it for what it was back then. It’s a sting operation, a live action mousetrap. And having gone through that whole New-Agey, David Deida touchy-feely nonsense with my the girlfriend in my last LTR, I vowed to never, EVER again open up. You just can’t afford to in public, and certainly never with a woman. The risks to… Read more »
@ Mike “Vulnerability; avoid it, hide it or kill it. No other options are available.” I’ll mention Faster EFT again. It really works wonders. You can do this in complete privacy. The goal is genuine, authentic emotional control. I had a very bad childhood but am coming to terms with it using this technique. I’ve been learning and using it for the past 6 months with tremendous results. Panic attacks have almost completely disappeared, especially at night — I’m getting more sleep and am going to bed without having panic attacks/nightmares and sleeping through the night. I’ve cut back my… Read more »
@Softek said, “That’s why it’s important for us as men to acknowledge — in the privacy of our own minds — our vulnerabilities. To recognize them for what they are, and then make a point of making peace with that within ourselves.”
@ Rollo “It kills me to read confessionals like this and then see a woman like Jennifer Siebel Newsom earn accolades for a documentary about a masculinity she has neither the experience nor the authority to ever make a presumption about.” My sentiments exactly. Funny how feminists harp day and night about how men can never understand them because they’re not women, but then they define men according to a feminine primary point of view and claim to understand them. As in that video. It’s pretty mind boggling. I’m not new to this stuff, as I’ve been reading here for… Read more »
That’s just it, Newsom and the FI are ‘sympathetic’ to a masculinity of their own creation. A perception of a masculinity that doesn’t exist.
Anything that looks like conventional masculinity to the FI is an act, a mask men wear because they’re “afraid’ to embrace what should be ‘real’ for them – real emotionalism as defined by the female experience.
In other words men’s experience, masculinity, is not a legitimate experience. Only women’s emotionally open experience is legitimate, and anything that contradicts that experience is an act, a posturing.
Re: “Only women’s emotionally open experience is legitimate, and anything that contradicts that experience is an act, a posturing.” Great stuff. Moreover, women do the hall-of-mirrors projection all the time. When myrealitie, and AWALT, insists that the way to her heart is for her husband to pretend to have no problems, to suck up his disappointments etc., what she means is … entirely solipsistic. Follow me into the hall. She thinks that whatever she is feeling, that *everyone* else’s feelings ought to be highly affected. She thinks that when she gets ready to go out, finally choosing the “right” dress,… Read more »
Never trust anything that can [talk to someone about someone’s opinions about yet another someone else’s choices in footwear] for seven days and still lives.
Rollo – “Only women’s emotionally open experience is legitimate, and anything that contradicts that experience is an act, a posturing.”
So twisted, as we know only man’s reasoned experience and objective thoughtful observation is legitimate because it’s the only one testable against objective reality. It’s the only experience that can be tested against other reasoned experiences to improve the collective understanding of the world and all within. Doing so with emotions tells us nothing about reality other than how someone, or some group felt about their experience with reality.
@MikePhil re: “Honestly, why would you want to be a poor imitation of a woman anyway?”
Outstanding question! The standard answer handwaves off in the direction of working on your weaknesses, I think. Which begs the question of why you would want to decrease your masculine strengths simply to be both a lousy man and lousy woman.
@ Rollo You’ve laid it out clear as day. This also goes hand in hand with men berating other men for being “too masculine.” Men are being brought up to think of overt masculinity as a bad thing, or a “front.” I can see it now: “I just wanted to fuck you. I’m not really interested in being your boyfriend.” “You’re just saying that because deep down you’re afraid of opening yourself up to a woman. You’ve lost your ability to trust.” “No, I just don’t want a girlfriend.” “Why are you afraid to fall in love? What’s holding you… Read more »
@Bango Tango, that is exactly it … the vulnerable you will *not* be embraced by your woman. That’s just all there is to it. I now think of this aspect of women as a feature, not a bug. When I first encountered the red pill, I learned from other men that we men need to keep our masks on around women and children, that we could only let our masks down with trusted friends. A trusted friend is a man who cares enough about you to tell you the truth about you to your face even when you do not… Read more »
In a feminine-primary social order, just being male implies a disingenuous existence.
Unless you internalize the female experience as being the only legitimate experience you are a fake. In fact so important is this acknowledgement to the Feminine Imperative (and its male identifiers)it will define that non-female-compliant male disingenuousness as rape:
@ Buena Vista: Regarding – “Don Draper, here in the long story, remains a mystery: the man with no past” And yet even Don has moments of vulnerability, which occur throughout the series with increasing frequency as the curtain is pulled further and further back on Don’s past as “Dick Whitman”. He shows these vulnerable moments, but only to the women in his life, and only in fleeting moments. For example, Betty discovers his past as Dick Whitman. He’s flummoxed and speechless and out of sorts. He pulls it together and comes clean about nearly everything – his past as… Read more »
I agree, Deti, with each example. And your takeaways. I deliberately stayed away from some of them to avoid spoiling the show for the three people left in the world who haven’t seen it already. Also, I was sufficiently long-winded and had punished enough eyeballs. In support of our discussion though, Don’s suppressed feelings (and cloaked past) have a cumulative, and cumulatively negative, effect on him. His drinking eventually becomes pathological, which is a metaphor for the psychological and emotional drowning he’s experiencing. Wife #2 is revealed as a self-interested, hypergamous mate, and Don’s supplicating efforts to sustain their relationship… Read more »
re: “the Feminine Imperative (and its male identifiers)it will define that non-female-compliant male disingenuousness as rape”
Hence, admitting that Dishonest Signaling works! Since women’s pickers are so lousy that they can be so easily Gamed, then external forces must be put to bear to reduce the Dishonesty of so many men’s Signaling, so that women can get back to business with Naturals.
@Softek re: tapping.
It turns out various mechanoreceptor neurons can be excited in different ways. I don’t know which ones do right for tapping. One interesting anatomical factoid is that the fast way to stop a panic attack is to press hard on places on your own carotid artery. Your heart rate will quickly decrease within seconds.
BV: Yes, all true regarding the way Don has developed to date. The show has explored Don’s relationships with his kids, particularly Sally, his oldest child. Don really does try to be a good father, and he’s depicted as loving and caring to her. But as Sally gets older, she sees his foibles and sins, and becomes increasingly alienated from him (and everyone else in her life) as she judges him. You know, the one thing I hope Weiner does NOT do is pair Don up with Peggy. That would be quite the copout, wouldn’t it. In many ways Peggy… Read more »
@ jf12 Very interesting. I just might have to try that. Robert talks a bit about “tapping without tapping,” and “mental tapping.” The physical tapping is based on acupressure points that are used in traditional EFT. I do think they can help. Not sure how much importance I place on the Chinese theory of the Meridian system in the body (e.g. that they use for acupuncture), but I have no experience with it outside of tapping so I have no comment. But the main premise with Faster EFT is using the tapping as a “trance breaker” — the idea being… Read more »
Why ‘let go’ of your LDR before getting another plate going?
She may not be a PAW (physically attractive woman), but as you pointed out she has a number of good qualities. Mathematically, the product of looks times personality/character in women tends to be a constant.
Also, being in a position of having a take it or leave it attitude about a relationship gives you leeway to experiment with Red Pill ideas and actions that you wouldn’t feel if you were in love with a hot babe. It is fertile ground for internalizing alpha.
Boy is selfish and demanding and threatens violence, woman like it.
“in Chinese medicine the tapping points are all on meridians that relate to major organs. I think the four tapping points used in Faster EFT correspond to the bladder, gall bladder, stomach, and kidneys. “ .. and these things are real? Show me, please. I have a collection of knives, and all of them are _very_ sharp (it’s a carpenter thang, you just wouldn’t understand). Failing that, I do the odd bit of knapping; flint/chert, bottleglass, obsidian. I adore free education.
@ Tam Although the TCM theoretical framework doesn’t correspond well with modern scientific understanding, the fact remains that the Chinese were sharp observers of nature and came out with many effective remedies, especially herbs. I suspect that the meridians are actually a functional map of the nervous system. Stimulating the nervous system the right way probably has effects that Western Medicine is ignorant of. As an engineer, the bottom line is does it work. The theory behind it is of secondary importance. Working empirically in the lab, I have been able to deliver results that the PhD physics types couldn’t.… Read more »
@ All – BV, Softek, JF12, M. Simon in particular, and Rollo of course, wow, just wow. I’m so moved by this colloquy and realized that in the company of men, with this kind of anonymity I can actually be really vulnerable. Rollo, you are so spot on about the ‘mask’ men have to wear non-stop in a feminine primary society. I cannot be my unguarded self in the world, particularly with women, as it will be shamed, denigrated, scoffed at, repressed, criticized and ostracized. So, let me share something of my inner world and hope that the gals who… Read more »
@ Tam http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2011/260510/ It’s not determined whether they’re real or not. I just did a cursory search and found that interesting considering I’ve also studied myofascial trigger point release therapy and have had results with that on myself as well as other people, despite there being controversies about how it works. saveyourself.ca is a good site that has more information about that, which may indirectly tie into the alleged meridian systems in the body. I’ve used Faster EFT on people that were in the middle of having severe migraine headaches and had the migraines completely disappear within 10 minutes. I… Read more »
@ jacklabear “Why ‘let go’ of your LDR before getting another plate going? She may not be a PAW (physically attractive woman), but as you pointed out she has a number of good qualities. Mathematically, the product of looks times personality/character in women tends to be a constant. Also, being in a position of having a take it or leave it attitude about a relationship gives you leeway to experiment with Red Pill ideas and actions that you wouldn’t feel if you were in love with a hot babe. It is fertile ground for internalizing alpha.” ————————- That’s a very… Read more »
@ Glenn I’m definitely glad you’ve shared what you have here. One thing that might help you is to associate completely with all the rage/anger/sadness/everything else you feel, and as soon as you have it, imagine the feeling you get of being supported here, and having this place to share your vulnerabilities without fear of being judged. Go into the bad feeling and memories — associate to them — then switch to right here and now, typing on your computer and posting comments on a place on the Internet where your voice can actually be heard. And also benefits people… Read more »
“Telling us that “men just want closeness” — dressing it up in this pseudo blanket of warmth and intimacy and sensitivity, when in reality that whole model of thinking is what has brainwashed so many boys into growing into degenerate, self-effacing, self-hating, sex starved and frustrated men who are still waiting for their Promised Land of reciprocated female intimacy for everything they’ve suffered through.”
Nailed it. Poetry. Bravo!!
Deti, he’ll ruin the entire work if he marries Don off to a triumphant Peggy. I could see them becoming business partners in a new firm, successfully. Emasculating Don through his marrying a 6 would be too much. Peggy needs to marry an ironic CUNY prof with a beard and a taste for Walter Benjamin. Don needs to connect with Harvey Weinstein’s ex-. *** One of my astonishments is how our popular culture presents so very many, admired masculine archetypes, irresistible and successful in their intersexual lives — and yet many of us *still* dropped the blue pill each morning… Read more »
Softek, “I have a very hard time being what I perceive as “dishonest.”” I understand. Me too. But… Ok, you two have different goals. She is of course free to find a man willing to raise a family with her. Does that mean while she is doing that she can’t come see you now and then for nookie and the other good things you share? After all, she said she doesn’t want to know about the others, so you don’t need to discuss it with her. It seems like you could just let her stop seeing you if that’s what… Read more »
“One of my astonishments is how our popular culture presents so very many, admired masculine archetypes, irresistible and successful in their intersexual lives — and yet many of us *still* dropped the blue pill each morning with our coffee.”
There were a few episodes where Don Draper got seriously sexually dominant on the neighbor he was poking. But after a while, she dumped him because of it.
Let that be a lesson for all you men who think being dominant with a woman is a good idea!
The FI has a long reach.
The ultimate version of Rollo’s take on men loving fully and romantically!
@ jacklabear Great essay, thanks a million for sharing. This is very valuable stuff. “Does that mean while she is doing that she can’t come see you now and then for nookie and the other good things you share?” I tried to explain to her that my lack of exclusive commitment to her didn’t devalue all the good things we shared. One major disadvantage I’m working on remedying is I still live with my parents. The nearest hotels are in the city, and I live right near one of the top 10 most violent cities in the country. Last time… Read more »
@Softek re: “Was the tremendous gap in SMV responsible for a lot of our relationship dynamics?” Indubitably. She was exhibiting the correct behavior, the desired behavior, because that was all she had to offer. The lesson here, going forward, is that women DO know how to act right so EVERY time they aren’t acting right it is because of their being deliberately malicious, NOT ignorant, by refusing to do what they know you want. EVERY time. @JF. Just read this comment from early in the thread. This is exactly correct. Women know they are being malicious and our making the… Read more »
The real issue here, at least if we dig a bit deeper beyond what vulnerability results in.. is how men today are taught about their experience of emotion- which connects with Rollos observations of how the FI makes the female experience the default correct experience. As someone who grew up with alot of problems, I obviously developed some emotional/psychological issues. For most of my life I have tried to deal with them the way we are taught by the FI- feeling my feelings, allowing them to be, getting in touch with them.etc etc a nausea. What I finally came to… Read more »
November 26th, 2014 at 6:28 pm
Well thank you very much. It is good to be in the company of MEN. And helping to raise others to that status is one of my great joys.
Given the coming difficulties from having a woman disguised as a man leading the country/world for the last 6 years, we are going to need quite a few good men.
Just remember the Marines, “No better friend. No worse enemy.”
The currency of women is lies. The currency of MEN is truth.
Glenn November 26th, 2014 at 6:28 pm I’m going to try the Faster EFT mentioned by Softek since I have PTSD issues myself. ================= What pisses me off to this day is the War On Drug Users who are mostly suffering from PTSD with heroin users having more horrific cases than the pot users. What woke me up to all this was the finding of Dr. Lonny Shavelson who found that 70% of female heroin users had been sexually molested in childhood. We have a pain problem and call it “addiction” People in chronic pain chronically take pain relievers. That… Read more »
I was discussing things with the first mate after her latest outburst (no woman can be steady). She has two personalities. One I call Ms Pain (you can imagine – lots of pain for her and a fair amount for me). And another I call Crystal which is totally like Dudley Do Right’s girlfriend Nell (complete hero worship and submission – and dare I add happiness if she can obtain the object of her desire). She told me it was a package deal and I had to want them both. I told her, “No”. I’m not interested in Ms Pain… Read more »
zdr01dz brings up an important albeit too-common truth “Essentially he must be superior to her in every way. If he is not superior she will not be attracted to him.” I think it is only *partly* hypergamy per se that is driving the FI demand that the “assortative match” of an ordinary woman be an extraordinary man. As we’ve discussed, him being less than some masculine ideal, especially in the areas of vulnerability or weakness, makes him more *effeminate* in her eyes. So even women see ordinary women as naturally much worse than ordinary men, but they still demand top… Read more »
When nagging, which is always done to try to provoke a negative reaction from the man, the woman strangely gets no satisfaction from getting the reaction. In fact, she always gets worse, and *always* blames the man for bothering to react negatively.
When you think about it, we are so few who understand. Would you say we are 0.01% or are there more?
And if so, please give a percent. It’s important to know the company you keep.