The Global Sexual Marketplace

Before I launch into today’s essay I want to throw out a few caveats. The first is a reminder of my long-time policy of dealing with issues of race, politics and religion; and that’s to say it’s my practice leave these topics to other blogs and other writers unless those topics cross over into intersexual dynamics that are pertinent to Red Pill awareness. I feel like I need make this clear as I’m going to get into issues of race and how intersexual relations are modified by these issues today. It’s always been my belief that the shared input and related experiences of men of all races, cultures and nationality is one of the greatest strengths of the Red Pill. So it’s with this in mind that I think we need to address some of these experiences.

What got me on to this topic was the video I’ve linked above here today. As most of you know I’m not a proponent of the idea of a “Black Pill”. That is the ‘black’ part of understanding the harsh realities of what Red Pill awareness opens men’s eyes to. Accepting the uglier nature of intersexual dynamics and how it plays into today’s sexual marketplace is often something that drives some men to a kind of despondency. It can be really depressing to have Red Pill awareness destroy your long-held Blue Pill ideals – particularly when those ideals helped to give you a sense of hope in spite of your instincts telling you something different.

When I was at the 21 Convention last October I had a discussion with Dr. Shawn Smith about the nature of the Blue Pill. His question to me was something like “Don’t you think that some guys need at least a little Blue Pill to keep them going?” I’m paraphrasing here, but I’ve actually touched on this in a few prior essays. In essence, it should follow that human beings can’t handle too much ‘reality’. This is why we look for escapisms and turn our otherwise rational minds to something like faith. The human mind tries to remain hopeful in the face of dire realities; which also follows evolutionarily. Those humans who stayed optimistic in the face of crushing reality didn’t off themselves in despair and consequently passed on their genes.

That’s the nuts & bolts of it (yes, I know there’s more to it), but is this a feature or a bug in today’s realities? Willfully choosing conscious ignorance while your rational mind knows the truth can lead to despondency and depression. It’s the observer effect – observing a process will change that process – only, you’re playing that game with yourself. So, is a little bit of our Blue Pill conditioning a good thing if it gives us a hope that keeps us alive?

I’d have to say no. Because once you unplug from the Matrix going back to that ignorance is really impossible. Something in your hindbrain knows the truth about the fantasy you construct for yourself. Again, it’s playing the observer effect on oneself. And it’s just this simple truth that makes a lot of guys who are unprepared for the anger and nihilism that comes from Red Pill disillusionment to come up with things like a ‘Black Pill’.

But this essay isn’t about dealing with that despondency. I’ve already written that essay in A New Hope. This essay is about one of those ugly truths that Red Pill men have to evolve new adaptations for. You see, there is no ‘Black Pill’ – there is only the space in between a man dealing with his despondency about a harsh Red Pill truth and his crossing the abyss to accepting that truth and doing something with that information to better his life.

Local vs Global SMP

Watch the video I linked here. It’s by Black Pill 101, a channel that specializes in exactly the harsh realities of Red Pill awareness I mentioned above. It doesn’t pull any punches and for that I’m in agreement with them. Men deserve the unvarnished truth; without it they founder. This video outlines the innate difficulties Asian men face in the Global Sexual Marketplace. One of the most common requests I get for counseling is from Asian or Indian men asking me to help them improve their game. Many of them believe I have some Game solution to their getting laid with an SMV 6-7 they know from work. Many of them think they might have a chance with a modest SMV 6 if they either had some specialized technique or they could simply earn another $250K annual salary.

I honestly feel for Asian/Indian men in this respect. When I read about Aziz Ansari’s #MeToo’ing I read with morbid fascination watching his story play out with another ‘cute’ (SMV6-7) white girl. This is the stereotypical interaction. With my Red Pill Lens I saw a girl conflicted by her attraction to Aziz’s social proof (celebrity) with her visceral reaction to becoming intimate with a guy she simply wasn’t all that aroused by. This is just my personal experience, but I’ve counseled Indian (and a few Asian) men who all share a very similar frustration – they really want to get with a white American girl but they are sexually invisible to the vast majority of them.

Black Pill 101 lays out this frustration from Asian men’s perspective. If you happen to be an Asian or Indian man I’d encourage you to add your own experiences in the comments here. But from my own interactions with these men the story revolves around their investment in locking down an average white woman. They aren’t looking to spin plates. They want an LTR with a girl and most of them tend to fixate on one they know from work or a friend of a friend. Maybe that lean towards monogamy is a cultural thing, but they all seem to set their sights on the average, seemingly attainable, American girl. And almost universally they are relegated to the ‘friend zone’ or the go ‘Black Pill’ in frustration.

I’m going to look at the bigger picture here while I try to answer why this is so commonly case. In our tribalist, hunter/gatherer ancestral past our naturalistic sexual marketplace was limited to what a very localized group of individuals had to offer. We might’ve lived in groups of 100-150 ‘natives’ of our tribe. In that tribe maybe there were 10-12 females who would’ve been potential breeding/pairing candidates for a young man.

There are general arousal cues that are universal to all humans across cultures. Natural cross-culture beauty standards is something that’s been widely studied since the mid seventies – globalized beauty standards and physical prowess cues – however, the context in which those cues are expressed are (were) buffered by whatever that localized sexual marketplace (SMP) can realistically manifest.

Example: Height in men something universally agreed on as attractive/arousing for women. This is a globalized attraction cue in women. Girls all over the world overwhelmingly prefer a man to be taller than they are. This is an evolved preference because the survival implications are that a taller man is (generally) an easily identifiable aspect of physical prowess. Height implies a capacity for protection, an imposed dominance, and is a signifier of presence in a male dominance hierarchy. Whether this is the actual case is irrelevant. All that matters is that a woman’s preference for tall men to breed and pair with.

The average height of a Filipino man is around 5′ 4″. Prior to the Spanish colonizing the Philippines all Filipino women knew of men was that 5′ 4″ man. And to the 4′ 11″ average Filipino woman that was attractive. A 5′ 6-7″ man was a giant by the local SMP standards.

But the global SMP standards are simply ‘taller men are more attractive’. So when the Spanish/Western peoples came to the island it introduced Filipinas to a new standard: the 5′ 7″ Spanish man. Now the globalized SMP began to modify the local SMP. Then, eventually, along came the first 6 foot tall Caucasian European guy. Then the first Black man, etc. Gradually the localized (previously tribally-defined) SMP to include the new possibilities of women breeding/pairing with men outside their own tribe.

Localized Contingencies

This is only one easy example of how a globalized standard of what defines the whole of the sexual marketplace redefines, and often replaces, the localized standard of attraction/arousal for women. There are many other ways this out-tribe influence introduces a new global standard for the SMP. This can include force as well as by invitation or local social norms shifting to accommodate the new global SMP. When a tribe is conquered by another it forcibly alters the other’s sexual marketplace standards (War Brides).

As such, societal standards shifted to favor social practices that defended the local SMP integrity of that tribe. This is nothing groundbreaking – tribalist humans have been creating social and religious contingencies to buffer agains women’s Hypergamy, and to solidify the integrity of the local SMP for millennia. And these norms affect both the men and the women of that culture.

Cultural norms that forbid intermarriage (really interbreeding) of women with out-tribe men are common, but there are also:

  • Prearranged Marriages
  • Guarding/Prioritizing Virginity
  • Buffering Against Hypergamy
  • Socially Enforced Monogamy

I should also add that there is the Samson Contingency which is a buffer set against (powerful) men taking out-tribe wives. It may’ve been acceptable to have sex with out-tribe women (rape or prostitution), but for the integrity of the tribe, that man was only to form lasting bonds (via marriage) from within that tribe. This kept vital resources within that tribe.

A Modern SMP

In an upcoming essay I’ll be exploring the deeper reasons why Blank-Slate Equalism is so difficult to purge from our present-day social order. However, I need to detail a bit of this now. We live in a feminine-primary social order (the Gynocracy), but without the Blank-Slate much of the preconception of it collapse. One reason Blank-Slate Equalism remains a social norm (despite a world of empirical proof that destroys it) is because it serves to disguise the ugly realities of a sexual marketplace defined by human evolution. Particularly so in an age of expanding SMP globalism. It’s not just culture, politics, ideology and socioeconomic considerations that are tied to globalization; a global scale sexual marketplace is following among all of this.

In the age of global mass communication our localized (tribal) SMPs are replaced with a global standard. That global standard destroys the old local SMPs, but it also selects-out the men who don’t measure up to its standards. This is something I think most MGTOWs and all Incels instinctively know: according to the global SMP selection criteria there are some men who will simply not be selected-for. If the Black Pill 101 video about how Asian women don’t select Asian men for mating opportunities is any indicator, I think Asian and Indian men are facing this head on today.

Now, I expect the first rebuttal to this proposition will be that the present, global SMP is a reflection of Westernized beauty standards and horribly distorted expectations. Asian/Indian men seem to want nothing to do with the native women who are ruthless in expressing that they want nothing to do with them. What globalized demographic is really left for these men? The same might be said about socially inept white men seeking an easier sexual marketplace in Asian women. All of this is simple deductive adaptations men will naturally resort to when it comes to solving the problems of sex and reproduction.

I’m totally accepting that there is a societal influence in all of this. However, I think the incentives to look into the opportunities that a larger global SMP offers is still based on Darwinistic principles. Even Western romanticism is still founded upon natural female arousal cues that define the larger SMP. The global SMP is rooted in the naturalistic, evolved (not socialized) elements that trigger arousal, incentivize parental investment and play off women’s dualistic sexual strategies (Alpha Seed/Beta Need).

The Global Social Order

Finally, I want to point out that while our expanding globalization has given rise to a global SMP, that expansion is rooted in Gynocentrism. Since the time of the Sexual Revolution an unfettered, unconstrained Hypergamy has dictated this global sexual marketplace. The world-scale SMP is driven by women’s prime-directives, not men’s. As women are afforded more authority to direct society, their reproductive interests are what defines the global SMP. And all unchecked and unbalanced by any male interests. This is important to consider when we see the old tribalist, local SMPs decay to extinction. The checks and balances on Hypergamy that existed in the past were the creations of a smaller localized SMP. One that was familiar with the risks and results of allowing men and women of that particular tribe to reproduced without thought to the integrity of the tribe.

This is why Blank-Slate Equalism, as big a lie as it is, is so necessary to maintaining the unfettered Hypergamy that the global SMP is based on. Without its social constructionism, without its presumption of coequal agency, the Gynocentric power base is replaced with conventional, evolved gender norms that would favor men’s influence in the global SMP. Gynocentrism needs Blank-Slate Equalism to disguise its authority and influence. Notions of ‘Equal Value’ and social constructionism are needed to cover the ugly Darwinsim that unchecked Hypergamy thrives in.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

437 comments on “The Global Sexual Marketplace

  1. J

    ““not fuck it up” = don’t be boring/weirdo/creepy. If you wanna call that “Game” lol ok bro go ahead, but that’s not really game to me.”

    Of course that’s not game. And “don’t fuck it up” isn’t going to get you laid unless the girl is leading.

    Here do a hypothetical. 4 girls in a group of 8 good looking guys. Who all happen to look exactly the same. Who gets laid?

  2. ““don’t fuck it up” isn’t going to get you laid unless the girl is leading”

    If you’ve got experience with and know what the ‘window of opportunity’ looks like, you can take her home, when the situation presents itself. I don’t want to make it seem like “don’t fuck it up” is something so easy a caveman can do it. Because you need massive experience to be able to detect these unconscious signals and know what to do and when. Just that, to an experienced seducer, this is a walk in the park, compared to seducing a girl who isn’t giving you much to work with (i.e. when you’re not her type)

    “Who gets laid?”

    Since they’re all above the Looks Threshold(TM) , then it’s the Alpha of the group, who gets his choice between which girl he wants. He’ll probably go for the one throwing him obvious IOIs if he wants an easy lay. Or he’ll play the jealousy plotline, and flirt with her, to make the girl he’s really interested in start giving him IOIs. From there, he’ll just need to isolate her away from the group and make it happen.

  3. lookism debate: Gamer in Wonderland

    @J

    I was thinking about last night and it seemed unreal, like a dream–how could a fat, old, bald sperg like me be such that young, hot girls ask me to dance? In a new-ish venue where I’m not a regular? Unbelievable, right? After all, I must be misreading social cues due to autism. But autism doesn’t explain hot young women remembering me after months. Or asking me to dance. And my salsa really isn’t very good–I do it so rarely that I’m very rusty. There were many handsome young white guys who were far better salsateers than I am. They also were dancing with lots of girls like I was. And I failed to mention that both girls were pushing their boobs against me in a way that wasn’t part of the normal dance. Club bachata is often sexy, but I wasn’t dancing bachata with them. It was after 1 a.m.

    I get it that there’s a credibility problem for me–but only if you subscribe to lookism (even lookism lite). The basic belief of lookism is that women and men both respond to visual appeal. For women, this is true to some degree–as long as their hindbrain isn’t engaged. Visual appeal is processed by the visual cortex, but when the hindbrain is engaged, it takes priority over the cortex. So, this explains why women are initially attracted by visual appeal, but game supplants visual appeal in women.

  4. Previous page there was talk about women being the gatekeepers of sex.

    I don’t see it that way. That might make a.difference in how one relates to them in some small fashion. Women hold no power. Only if they were a limited resource for sex would they be gatekeepers.

    There’s billions of them, so fuck that noise.

    One finer than the next if you wish to do the legwork.😂 turning upper hand many women can manage is sex. Take that advantage away from them first inside your head. Fairer sex, gatekeeper, blah blah blah.

    Girls.

  5. My wife has a right of refusal regarding sex because I’m not prone to rape or unwelcomed force.

    Dollars to donuts I can get strange poon in 24 hours or less. Gatekeeper mode disabled.

    Thanks for playing.

  6. @j – thanks for the answer, I understand better now.

    I don’t agree, but I have very some very specific thoughts on it – I’ll try to write it up in a day or so.

    I’ll leave you with this post from @IRL (not me), which is one of the better summaries of “looks” that I’ve seen. I don’t have the link to where he posted it on some old thread, I just copied and saved the whole thing because it made so much sense to me, but it’s @IRL’s, not mine (it closely tracks the kind of thing YaReally and others have said although has its own nuances):

    –“The ‘looks’ thing… Why argue? Lol…
    TL;DR looks matter only if there’s nothing else that spikes her RAS stronger… Don’t make them matter.
    It’s exactly like verbals and all sort of subcomms… Like everything coming to the brain from the environment… Some of it won’t register, some will spike/excite a well localized tangible thought or emotion, and some will induce a hardly noticeable background state that shifts the mood ever so slightly… Positive, negative or neutral association… or just ‘nothing’ below a threshold… Lasting only a fraction of a second or decaying slowly… Ahhh women… The stimulus/trigger is just a detail… be it a word, a gesture, a reaction of/to the environment, a prop different than anything around… or appearance… Shake that emotional soup…
    Looks are an obvious, very first ‘straight in the face’ cue that contributes to the overall perception of who you might be and how you may meet girl’s social, emotional and physical needs (based on her preconceptions)… Not only are we genetically ‘molded’ to notice looks, but also socially conditioned to pay attention to them. Therefore, good looks ping off as something ‘positive’, average as ‘neutral’ and bad looks, or even worse “ugly and ungroomed, unhealthy”, as ‘negative’. Here +, 0 and – are just simplified concepts of how a stimulus triggers/sets the trajectory of emotional associations that follow… How your mind’s complex strings resonate after this or that touch…
    So of course your ‘looks’ can make your approach warm… or ‘Ice Queen’ cold…
    It’s like asking whether your bad breath matters… lol… duh…
    Actually… Bad breath trumps looks! Boom! Looks don’t matter! Lol… but I’m not joking.
    The thing is… looks are just one of many stimuli that her brain is bombarded with. Above some very low threshold, looks don’t register that strongly as other factors that could induce plenty of more intensive thoughts and emotions and basically take over the overall perception… That’s why YaReally was talking about ‘Predator vision’ and not perceiving details, just an emotional ‘blob’ of how you make her feel in the interaction (good or bad… doesn’t matter)… Nb. we’re getting close to the magical ‘laminal space’ where so many things just don’t register beyond the actual ‘bubble’… lol
    And this is also why the conclusion should be… looks don’t matter… at the same time. They just determine (to a relatively small degree compared to other stuff) how ‘cold’ or ‘warm’ her reception of you is from the get go (but also where your mindset starts at in the ‘looks’ scale compared to her). If you always start from +1 degree higher than other guys… you may get used to relying on the head start… but get stuck when this little detail is missing (no grooming, no gym for a few weeks, green spots and unicorns on your dick… whoops I should get it checked… lol). A mental feedback loop to the value of ‘looks’ can either fuck you up (when no ‘good looks’) or… fuck you up (when ‘good looks’ temporarily missing/not enough compared to another reference). An HB9/HB10’s RAS can easily notice the little difference, ‘hair thin’ imbalance in your Frame.
    I’d say it’s all about leveling the field and topping it up with things resulting in positive reinforcements for her attraction. No need to tickle her RAS with negative triggers. Yes, do take care of your looks, your social proof, your money. But know you can overdo it (too expensive grooming, clothes etc. and you’re risking ending up in the provider territory). My rule of thumb is just get some of it to a neutral level (so no negative pings) and focus on improving your game and things that can build your long term overall happiness. Social circle game, money or good looks could actually make access to poosy too easy… and then we’re back to “are you actually running game”?
    Sometimes it’s good to remove some of it and see if you can step your game up.

  7. Blax, women hold the gate against betas and alphas hold the gate against women.

    Saying women hold the gate against men” ignores the fact that there is a significant difference among men as to who can easily get pussy and who can’t. Alphas and betas.

    Women actually compete for sex with alphas. I’m sure that there are women who feel that they are being denied sex with you, so you are holding the gate against them.

  8. j: “Because you need massive experience to be able to detect these unconscious signals”

    Barf.

  9. Re: gatekeeper 🔒

    Why you gaming her?

    ‘Uh….uh…cause it’s fun?”

    No. You want to fuck her (I don’t need to hear married guys chiming in here with your “it’s to keep my skillset sharp” bullshit). I’m gaming her because I know that if I make her laugh, make her cry, make her feel comfortable, connected, horny, and wet, she’ll be spreading her legs for me at the end of the night.

    If I don’t do any of that (seduction) and I say, go up to a random girl I like, and be like “I want to fuck you. Let’s go” (not saying it’ll never work. Just talking percentages here) drag her out of whatever enviornment we happen to find ourselves in, toss her in a cab, then take her to my place. Tell her to undress. Because “Me alpha. You give me sex NOW”. That shit not only gonna get me thrown in jail, I’ll be denied what I’m after, sex.

    She’s the gatekeeper. Tight game will have her tossing you the key 🔑 from the balcony

    https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/14018930_f520.jpg

  10. There are two women who have asked me on dates this year and a couple who chased me on fb. Bearing in mind the Iceberg Principle, that means that there are about 24 women who know me and wanted to bang me in the past year. I don’t give out my phone no. much.

    I’m definitely the gatekeeper wrt at least the four women.

    Blax, how many women have asked you on dates the past year?

  11. Asd

    Don’t remember about dates. There are 2 21 year olds that keep saying ” we should hang out “, but nobody has said ” date ” specifically. Lol, I was supposed to write an fr about this one chick above, but I kept forgetting to do it a and now I can’t remember half of the conversation.

    I don’t know. If I wanted to date/bang a chick, I would remember if she offers to ‘ to date ‘.

    J,

    Not sure which married omg’s you are talking about😁 but I Game chicks because it’s part of me. I’m not really practicing, and I’m not looking to get laid currently, but I’ve never had any fear of women, enjoy the he’ll out of having conversations with them for the sake of having a good time, and recognizing patterns. Real ones. Familiar ones.

    Like I told my wife way back when we were dating, I talk to women and I’ll always talk to women.

    Btw, I’m sorry to hear about your gatekeepers. My condolences.

  12. Not sure which married omg’s you are talking about😁 but I Game chicks because it’s part of me.

    Then there’s Rollo’s Plate Theory posts we could refer men to who maybe haven’t internalized spinning plates yet.

    I really don’t Game broads much because I don’t want to put a lot of effort into running away from them. Just doing what I do already keeps me hopping as it is. I guess that’s Game, too.

    None of the broads I dance with have my phone no. One was a girl I know who said that she wanted to invite me to a party, so she asked for my no. The rest were from social media.

  13. J,

    😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

    Okay, seriously for a sec.

    Do you think it’s easier for a guy that’s never, ever had any apprehension or issues with talking to wimen, all of them, in any kind of situation, across an entire lifetime?

    If a guy has problems of any kind talking to women, then he only ” learns ” how to talk them into sex, but otherwise doesn’t want to be bothered by them, under those circumstances do you believe that sexy talk guy will not understand that there are other, more precise ways to get to know women, and that 99% of that more detailed information is transferable?

    Or why this Will make all things possible?

    I’ve always said, the way to get really good at talking to chicks is by talking to chicks. It’s harder to hear them if there’s all that anticipation clogging up your ears.

    I’ve been in the ring with fighters that basically had 2 offensive moves ( as daft as that seems ), but they managed to knock out a dozen other fighters with those 2 moves. Of course they brought the success they’d had meant they were pro material and most likely headed to some very big fights.

    Until they get feinted, jabbed, hooked and overhand righted into oblivion once those 2 moves are exposed as ” all they got “.

    Every gym in America has one of those cats.

    And it’s hard to coach it out of them as long as they manage to keep winning. They won’t listen until some dudes put their dicks on the canvas a few times.

  14. Asd

    I’m going to hit the sack. Big day of heavy ass show to shovel tomorrow. It is March, right?

    But one last thought before I lay me down to sleep.

    I do not get the idea that Game is something that has to be planned and thought about. I don’t believe I’ve ever thought to myself things like ” …make her laugh ” or ” read her subtle whatever ” consciously. I’ve said it before: that shit sounds absolutely exhausting.

    And yet, chicks laugh their asse s off around me. Hmmmm….what gives?s

    Could it be that I like to have as much fun in life as I can, whenever I can, wherever I am? No planning no memorization. No plotting or scheming. Just the best time I can have in a situation for my own satisfaction.

    We had a lot of company over today, all day, and after everyone had left I had a slight headache from laughing so much. We all had a blast, and I like blasts. I’d like a blast in some measure everywhere I roam.

    I get paid at work to think and act and be ” serious “. I won’t conduct other aspects of life as if it were work. Socializing is supposed to be fun without an assload of thought and self consciousness. Stand this way, talk this way, stare into eyes, say something pithy, feign disinterest…whew.

    And before you know it, your eyes are open but everything is going dim. The old ticker stops ticking. Low singing and flower bringing ( h/t Biggie ).

    Enjoy life. Leave the artificial intelligence to skynet.

  15. I do not get the idea that Game is something that has to be planned and thought about.

    I agree that Game should be fun, but you have to start somewhere. Improvisational playing is a skill, like anything. You can’t avoid the progression from unconscious incompetence all the way to unconscious competence. Surely you’ve planned practical jokes before? Creating jokes takes serious thought unless they just fall out of a situation.

    I’ve said it before: that shit sounds absolutely exhausting.

    And it was for you, too, way back when, until you had enough skill that you didn’t have to work at it to be proficient. You’re selling cats a pig in a poke. Ain’t no way to get good at anything without working at it.

    I was thinking about how to prank a broad who is attracted to me but doesn’t like me. It has to be quick and effective because I won’t have long to do it.

    [I start off straightfaced]

    Me: You’re a problem for me. I can’t stop thinking about you. All day long throughout the week I keep seeing your face. It’s awful.

    She: [whatever]

    Me: Yeah, I think I’m in love with you. [switch to a smirk] And I always tell the truth.

    Of course, I’m telling this broad a big fat one. Just a little prank to have some fun. Amusing for both. And maybe it will give me an edge somehow or lead to us being friends.

    Of course it’s good to cut up with family and friends. We do that, too. Nowadays, it’s mostly baby-related fun. I’ll tease the baby about whining or wiggling or stinking or something…which teases her mama and granny, too. Or I’ll be a momentary distraction when mama is trying to feed baby. And I’ll dance with baby and sing to baby. Throw baby in the air, which messes with her mama and granny as baby laughs a belly laugh. I’ll nibble on baby’s tummy to tickle her or mess with her feet when she’s being fed. Peekaboo shit. Hold baby by her feet upside down for a sec. Haul baby in long jumps by her arms. Make weird noises at baby and hold her gaze.

    I’ll tell jokes to family and friends.

  16. @blax

    “I don’t believe I’ve ever thought to myself things like ” …make her laugh ” or ” read her subtle whatever ” consciously”

    lol me neither. I was just listing some of the things that I always do with girls (there’s no mental “hmm let’s see I made her laugh already check ok now I need to make her horny” checklist) that have lead to successful encounters. I often have no idea what I’m gonna open a girl with. I don’t have a “go to” opener, as all my openers are situational. just go in, and think of the first thing that pops into my head, and see where the conversation goes. Only thing that I do make sure to pay close conscious attention to (besides her body language/facial expressions) are when specific words and topics come up. So I can expand on those which then go on to lead to some fun back and forth emotionally stimulating conversations. And finding ways to smoothly stir conversations towards sexual topics. To sexually arouse her. So there’s no abrupt “hey how did we get here?” Because to her, it was just a natural progression of the conversation. Lead by me of course 😉

    Its not at all “exhausting”. But then again, this shit ain’t for everybody.

    “no memorization”

    The only thing I make sure to memorize is my stories. Much like stand-up comedians. So I can tell them, without struggling to recall minor details.

  17. Feminism and the FI

    The FI has a laffer curve distribution.

    There’s a precipitous dropoff after a steep ascendancy. Feminism as a FI force multiplier takes women only far as the FI is divinely engineered for a balanced environment.

    The FI has a negative feedback rate-limiting characteristic to it. Example: Western women have never been more empowered, and never unhappier. The FI has a characteristic benefit function if allowed to govern women’s needs.

    The unbridled FI doesn’t provide unlimited satisfaction to women. More is not more or better.

  18. Comparing Alpha in any way to something created, ie. money, power, status, is comparing mystery-infused Alpha apples to conceivable, knowable physical-stuff oranges.

    Alpha is undefinable as a tangible. Alpha is better understood as a feeling than a grammatically defined adjective. Any attempt to define Alpha concretely reduces the greater understanding into something less then satisfactory.

    There’s some things we shouldn’t f*** with, nature knows this, and by design frustrates our vain ambition. It’s not nature’s fault man doesn’t want to adhere to its laws.

    “Hypergamy doesn’t care” is a subdomain example of this.

  19. “As women are afforded more authority to direct society, their reproductive interests are what defines the global SMP. And all unchecked and unbalanced by any male interests. ”

    Not entirely true.

    1) Male interests are served by natural forces outside of human control. The more artificially configured the SMP, the less satisfying the product of that marketplace for both sexes. Men might not be served as well as they could be but enabling women beyond their natural tendencies doesn’t serve the female reproductive strategy either.

    2) Reproductive interests without vaginal-delivery reproduction isn’t useful a description for AF/BB. AF/BB is based on the perpetuation of her genes, not accumulated crap. This conversation is moot without babies.

    We can’t torture the definitions here then run with the false premise calling all downstream logic legit.

    There’s no indication women are ATM better off physically, emotionally, spiritually from their empowerment.

    Let’s stop pretending that this is a battle of the sexes. It isn’t. It’s something else and going forward it behooves men to realize this.

  20. R.I.P. Keith Flint.

    ” Firestarter ” was a song I hated to love. It was like a virus in my ears that made me bang my head, and nothing could get it out.

  21. @Ex Cartoonist – Lol, you don’t even know what Blue Pill or Red Pill mean i guess. How long have you been reading here? Blue Pill is essentially about internalizing the gynocentric, romantic/chivalric, male shaming culture we live in. One can be socially dominant – which is what and all that “alpha” means, and still be blue pilled. In fact, it’s very painful but doable. You do realize that “alpha” in and of itself is quite a weak idea to apply to humans as its drawn from the pack behavior of animals which humans have moved far beyond, even as social dominance hierarchies still exist.

    Example. I kept ending up fucking women but not really knowing why or how I did so. Or how I shamed my sexual impulses, and instead was looking for something more pure or elevated than just that. I remember my first intensely dominant sexual encounters after my first marriage with a crazy nympho who would cum 15-20 times with me and do everything imaginable. Cuz I basically treated her like my personal sex toy and slut. I usually did this while drunk, and she loved it, but inside I was ashamed of it afterwards. I thought it was bad, dirty and wrong. Lol. Now? That’s an average sexual encounter for me? And the girls love being fucked and taken that way. Every last goddamned one of them. And I feel fine about it. I actually scratch my head sometimes as I am surprised how much women get off from being physically dominated intensely. But I have no more guilt or shame or confusion about it, cuz of the Red Pill.

    One can readily have a Blue Pill mindset and be an alpha dog, it’s just means you are very conflicted inside.

    Make sense?

  22. ASD: “There are two women who have asked me on dates this year and a couple who chased me on fb.”

    FYI, fb friend requests aren’t date solicitations though if you’d give us literal, unadulterated, word for word deets re: “chased me on fb” we’d be all ears.

    Your personal interpretation is worthless. You dissemble like a boss.

  23. @Culum

    While I wait for your thoughts, let me debunk @IRL’s post real quick

    “looks matter only if there’s nothing else that spikes her RAS stronger”

    You mean if a guy above her Looks Threshold comes in set with better game, than the guy (whose also above her Looks Threshold) that’s boring the fuck outta her? yeah absolutely.

    but if this guy https://orwells1984oregon.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/afrinca-illegal15.jpg

    below her Looks Threshold, comes in set, it’s immediately “ewww go away”.

    “good looks ping off as something ‘positive’, average as ‘neutral’ and bad looks, or even worse “ugly and ungroomed, unhealthy”, as ‘negative’”

    Positive = “Yeah, I’d fuck this guy if he doesn’t fuck it up”.

    Neutral = “Maybe, I’d fuck this guy, if he has good game”.

    Negative = “No, I’d definitely not fuck this guy”.

    “Above some very low threshold, looks don’t register that strongly as other factors”

    How low we talking here? Like if you’re a 3 out of 10 in her eyes you pass that threshold? nah. The threshold’s at 6 out of 10. Fuckable. Just like to us a HB6 is “fuckable” – i.e. a ‘maybe’. Not incredibly difficult to get here tho. Going to the gym and taking care of your looks via grooming/stylemaxxing can help with that, if you’re facially ugly, skinny or fat.

    “That’s why YaReally was talking about ‘Predator vision’ and not perceiving details, just an emotional ‘blob’ of how you make her feel in the interaction”

    Only problem with this analogy is that, this is what predators see upon somebody approaching them:

    https://www.chickens.allotment-garden.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Predator-Vision.jpg

    This is what she sees:

    https://cdn.4archive.org/img/tmxojGV.jpg

    “If you always start from +1 degree higher than other guys… you may get used to relying on the head start… but get stuck when this little detail is missing (no grooming, no gym for a few weeks”

    RSDMax (a good looking guy) actually did this experiment, starting at 14:25 here by purposely dressing like shit, and having bad breath

    https://youtu.be/isn5ErpJTeo?t=865

    He ends up getting rejected by 2 out of the 3 girls he approaches (that we know of) and the 3rd girl (who he’s taller than) he number closes. He’d probably number close (or even SDL one of them) all 3, if he didn’t do this dumb experiment.

    “Yes, do take care of your looks”

    ummm why? Maybe because they matter 😉 ?

    “But know you can overdo it (too expensive grooming”

    Da fuck is “expensive grooming”? You mean buying high quality grooming products instead of the cheap shit filled with harmful chemicals they sell at your local pharmacy?

    “clothes”

    Again you mean spending more money towards higher quality clothes instead of settling for buying the cheap shit they sell at The Gap, H&M, and Primark etc., (which will fall apart after a couple months of use, and then you’ll end up having to go back to their store to replace those clothing items again) is ‘overdoing it’ and risk ending up in the provider territory? lol.

    “My rule of thumb is just get some of it to a neutral level”

    Neutral level = her viewing you as a ‘maybe.’ So if you’re facially ugly, skinny or fat, then looksmax to try and be at least a 6/10.

    “(so no negative pings)”

    but if she STILL thinks you ugly, then you’re still gonna be a NO. No worries other fish in the sea, broski.

    “good looks could actually make access to poosy too easy”

    Not really. They’re just helpful in getting you pass the Looks Threshold for the vast majority of girls. And closer to the Fuck Threshold, if you’re really good looking/her ideal type.

  24. @ scribblerg

    You’re right, I’m not that clear on what Blue Pill and Red Pill are. It seems clear enough when I read Rollo’s articles, but I struggle when participating in the comments’ threads. ‘Blue Pill’ and ‘beta’ often seem to be used interchangeably and I get confused.

    Part of this is trying to understand exactly what ‘Beta’ is. Some commentators treat it as an insulting negative which real men should avoid, whereas others present Beta as a mindset with both positive and negative aspects, just as Alpha has positive and negative aspects. I secretly want Beta to have a positive side because I suspect I’m a ‘natural beta’—I have zero interest in pretty much everything the Manosphere claims every man should do (e.g. lifting, spinning plates, sport). In my work life, I’ve tended to play Mr Spock to someone else’s Captain Kirk and it’s a role I play well and am well-suited for in both talent and temperament. And I ask myself: Isn’t Red Pill about seeing the Truth? And if the truth is that deep down I’m more beta than alpha, then wouldn’t I be happier living as an honest Beta than a wannabe Alpha?

    Another reason I suspect I’m Beta is my inability to stop admiring Jordan Peterson. I read so many comments on the Manosphere about what a beta JBP is, yet whenever I click on a Youtube video of him speaking or being interviewed by some hostile feministic journalist, I just flat-out admire how forthright and articulate he is. Whenever I watch him, I think, ‘If he’s a Beta, then that’s what I want to be!’

    This is where I am on my present journey.

  25. In his own castle everyone bent their knee to Roland.

    In the castle of Charles Roland bent the knee and died far from home under Charles’s command.

  26. @ex-cartoonist:

    “I have zero interest in pretty much everything the Manosphere claims every man should do (e.g. lifting, spinning plates, sport). In my work life, I’ve tended to play Mr Spock to someone else’s Captain Kirk and it’s a role I play well and am well-suited for in both talent and temperament.”

    Another reason I suspect I’m Beta is my inability to stop admiring Jordan Peterson. I read so many comments on the Manosphere about what a beta JBP is, yet whenever I click on a Youtube video of him speaking or being interviewed by some hostile feministic journalist, I just flat-out admire how forthright and articulate he is. Whenever I watch him, I think, ‘If he’s a Beta, then that’s what I want to be!’”

    From “The Awareness” by Rollo Tomassi:

    “Their want is to find some way to achieve a Blue Pill idealistic goal with the very harsh reality a Red Pill awareness brings to them. They want to be reinserted back into the Matrix, but with just enough Red Pill awareness to make their Blue Pill hopes a reality. They don’t believe The Lady in Red is real, but they do believe that she’s attainable and can be made real because they have the Red Pill awareness to effect it.

    They also see the potential for selling a sugar-coated version of the Red Pill’s knowledge-base as a means for other men to achieve their own false hope in Blue Pill idealism. There really is no going back once you have a grasp of the praxeology of the Red Pill, but it’s a comforting fiction for Blue Pill men (who’ve yet to kill their inner Betas) to believe they can achieve those Blue Pill goals with just enough Red Pill awareness (the pro-feminine parts they think women will approve of).

    And this false hope, one that conveniently ignores the uncomfortable parts of Red Pill awareness, is what will be sold by profiteers no matter what title they apply to it.”

    https://therationalmale.com/2016/12/19/the-awareness/

    You cannot attain the rewards that Captain Kirk gets by playing Spock, no matter how good a Spock you are. You want Spock to be as respected and rewarded as Captain Kirk. That will never happen in reality. Women know how to differentiate between Captain Kirk and Spock (millions of years of evolutionary adaption) and they reward each appropriately with their respect and intimacy.

    You say “I have zero interest in pretty much everything the Manosphere claims every man should do (e.g. lifting, spinning plates, sport)”. If not, then why are you here? Why not be happy and content being Spock? Why are you not happy? Why do you seek validation from others? Why do you want Spock to be as admired and respected as Captain Kirk?

  27. @ Ex Cartoonist – Wow, you are very confused about alpha and beta. I have made numerous comments here trying unfuck people’s minds about this. Calling alpha/beta a mindset is an absurdly stupid POV. Not that such BS it isn’t very common in the pseudo-intellectual, Lysenkoish garbage “science” used by so many preening douches in the manospher. The incel video referenced in this piece being a classic example of the pseudo-scientific “data driven” nonsense peddled to Red Pill men who have no business forwarding the ‘theories’ and analysis they do.

    So listen up, this time, k?

    Alpha & Beta – These are simply labels placed upon a man based on where he sits in social hierarchies. Nothing more and nothing less. It has little to do with your conscious mindset. You are alpha if people generally defer to you in social settings. A so called “natural leader”, if you will. You are beta if you usually follow.

    Now try and get this. The entire idea is based on the behavior of pack animals and how their social hierarchies work, and they are so much more primitive and simple than human social networks. Example: Men move in and out of many social hierarchies in their worlds, and in some cases they may be more of a leader than others. Also, what happens when there are a group of all beta men? Hmmm. If you look at actual scientists and researchers, who the likes of Rollo cite regularly, you’ll find that none of those scientist who study human mating behavior reduce men to alpha/beta.

    Sure, the term has been abused by the manosphere and other Red Pill denizens. VoxDay and Roosh (a world class douche that no man who is sane should ever listen to because he’s full of shit, his life is a joke even if his rhetoric is interesting from time to time), you’ll hear additional characterizations of male roles and archetypes in social hierarchies. Sigma, Delta etc – all ummitigated horseshit. Zero science wrt behavior or personality, just some stuff VoxDay made up to insult and denigrate people cuz he’s narcissistic in the extreme and has a very severe anti-social streak. But hey, the manosphere is full of betas looking for their next idol – and many in the manosphere play on that dynamic. Filling men’s minds with utter nonsense.

    So, you are alpha or beta based on how other’s treat you, not your mindset. Now, how does this fit into female sexual selection of mates? Easy. High social status is correlated with high survivability for women and their children, so women figure it into “fitness” based selection. Note that many men conflate this with female provider based selection but they are not the same thing. And many men like me who are naturally socially dominant are attractive mates for women despite being short and older etc. In other words, social dominance makes women wet…This is why they want to fuck the badboys and the crimnals and the thugs even if they “don’t like” them.

    Makes sense, right? During the hundreds of thousands of years in which these selection criteria evolved, picking a high status man was a valid survival strategy for a woman’s offspring.

    The bad news: Alpha is always relative. Even in a group of socially dominant men, there will be some who are followed and the rest will follow (note how this explodes a huge hole in the entire alpha/beta idea as many manospherian men see it). Women will always choose top 20%. So even if all men on earth “alphaed up”, women would still pick the top 20%. Why? Cuz sperm is plentiful. They just want top quality genetics, and since men can impregnate many women, this will always be the way. And today? With the social safety net in the West? Women have unleashed their craving for alpha. Which is why it’s a playground for guys like me. Is that “fair”? If you are asking that question, you have a mindset problem. Is gravity fair? Is DNA? Is evolution? The word “fair” is irrelevant in Red Pill praxeology (and if you don’t know what praxeology means, look it the fuck up).

    Even more insightful? Men will still find leaders to defer to and the more “fit” men (not physically but in terms of leadership skill) will emerge as the leaders, in any grouping. And we always need far fewer leaders, so there will always be many betas and fewer alphas.

    Blue Pill – Blue pill simply means the set of gynocentric and male shaming ideas, institutions and conventions that keep men shamed and filled with self-doubt and female servitude. YOU REEK OF THIS MINDSET. As I write this, I’m recalling that I wrote a very similar comment to you a while back and you apparently just ignored all this. Take my advice this time if you want to stop being confused. Read this site’s articles on chivalry and romantic love – https://gynocentrism.com/2016/04/15/articles-about-chivalry/

    You are so hooked on romance and the pedestalization of women that you simply reject all info that conflicts with your view. Nothing is getting through cuz you so desperately want to believe that romance is real and that being a “good man” instead of an animal like me is going to pay off for you. Fyi, as an aside, it’s only beta men who complain about me. Women like me. Women like when I hit on them cuz I’m calibrated and high value. They can tell I don’t give a fuck, they can jump in bed with me or not, it’s all good with me. Cuz I have options. You? I bet you make their skin crawl cuz you are so desperate for love and to be validated by a woman.

    Your real problem is epic arrogance. You think you are morally superior to me and many other men, but in fact you are a pathetic simp drowning in self-pity and feckless rage. You use your failed mating strategy as evidence of your goodness. You come here and argue on these pages for your own smallness and delusions, and seem quite satisfied with yourself for doing so.

    Sure, embrace your betahood, but adopt a Red Pill based POV. Betas are necessary or society doesn’t work. Women will not select you based on your dominance. But a crafty beta can come fuck my girl when she’s mad at me or I’m away fucking other girls. You’ll have to badmouth me to her and join in on her complaints about me, and sure, she may not quite submit to you sexually the way she does with me. You can also chase single moms, divorcees and 30something women who are changing gears with different strategies for sexual selection than I pursue.

    But here’s what you will never, ever have. The romantic ideal of love and partnership with a woman that you crave. Why? Cuz it’s an illusion foisted upon men to control our sexual behavior and give women power over us. IT’S ALWAYS THE GUY WHO IS THE ROMANTIC. Until you wake up to how badly this con has been run on you, and how much of a payoff you get from adopting it you will not get any peace. You invest in this POV cuz it aggrandizes your ego and allows you to sneer at men like me (in private, cuz in public you’d just shut the fuck up and do what I tell you like most beta boys).

    Now you can’t say you don’t know. My guess is that you are way too invested in being morally superior that you will not be able to let go of the puerile idiocy you believe in. That’s okay – most men can’t. But you will continue to fail in your mating strategies and interpersonal relations with women. You will also be sad and unempowered about your own sexuality and desires. That’s the payoff you get for feeling morally superior. That’s the cost – ask yourself, is the price worth the payoff?

    You know my answer but each man must answer that question for himself.

  28. “Your real problem is epic arrogance. You think you are morally superior to me…”

    @ Scrib

    I didn’t read that at all and only you can feel he’s arrogant which is epically hilarious in irony alone.

    Holy inferiority complex.

    Funny too how it takes hundreds of words for us to figure out that your upstream commentary has an origin of fear.

  29. @KFG – Well said, but I have one tiny problem with Rollo’s statement in that article. There is no killing of one’s “inner beta”. There is a killing of the Blue Pill idealism that is deeply embedded into a beta mans identity though. Blue Pilling is far more toxic for beta men cuz they are always seeking a “reason” for why the “other guy” seems to always get the girl. Or why the girl always fucks “the bad boy” (not even true often, it’s just that betas have make demons out of alpha dogs to feel better about themselves). I was very blue pill, but a natural alpha. I never got my sense of value by being “a good guy”, but rather shamed myself for my dominance. And as result was far less competent with my leadership and dominance. It was only by really internalizing the Red Pill that I could even be comfortable with my dominance.

    In both cases, the Blue Pill mindset is at work. But for a beta like Cartoonist, the ego investment in all those Blue Pill strategies and identity is much higher. For the alpha it’s about being conflicted and self-shaming, but for the beta it’s about defending his very existence as Cartoonist does nonstop.

    Can a guy “alpha up”? I’ve never seen it in my life. Not once. But any man – beta or alpha – can use social intelligence to get what he wants in life. Pussy, jobs, money, etc. And a beta who isn’t deluded about the world can be more content. There is nothing wrong with being beta, many men are so. Good betas find alphas to hook their wagons to, in fact. Many more of you should become good followers, good soldiers. And spend your energy choosing who you follow wisely instead of in futile efforts to “alpha up”.

  30. Alpha is not social dominance, in a red pill / manosphearian sense. If you are an actual wolf, then OK.

    Social Dominance is often a result of Alpha behavior. Peel back “what” makes one socially dominant and you will reveal The Alpha Triad traits on display – dynamism, passion and authenticity.

    The Sigma concept exists to account for Alphas that aren’t socially dominant. Typically because they reject or have no interest in leadership or even the group.

    Cartoonist – if tou want to delve into tgis further check out https://newlyaloof.wordpress.com/2016/12/02/sentients-dynamic-passionate-authentic-framework/

    The irreducible traits…

    A lot of manosphere guys confuse Masculinity with Alpha. There is often a lot of overlap between the groups.

    For Red Pill vs Blue Pill… It’s more than romantic/chivalrous notions.

    The Blue Pill is served by the Golden Rule. Do unto others as you would have them you etc. Basically see the world as you wish it was.

    The Red Pill is served by the Platinum Rule. Do whatever you want to do, when you want to do it. Basically see the world as it actually is.

    Good luck.

  31. @Eh Intellect – Spoken as only a true angry little beta boy would. But please, carry on tearing me down as it’s the only way you can build yourself up. Buffering slows a man’s Red Pill development, you’ll have to let go of those buffers at some point, why not do so today?

  32. @All – And I’m out. I love Sentient, but he’s spinning mythology in his comment. Period. Zero science or actual objective evidence to support what he’s saying about alpha. It’s just some shit he made up while taking a crap or something. Maybe it’s interesting, maybe it’s not. But I’m 100% correct on what alpha is and isn’t in reality. The rest is primarily Manospherian mythology designed to suck betas into hero worship and/or the unachievable goal of “alphaing up”.

    Ugly truth, but then again, I don’t give a fuck about how you guys feel about these truths. Hey, maybe that’s too much for some of you? Maybe most of you alpha dogs are here to be worshipped by betas who are hanging on to the fantasy of alphaing up? Maybe me saying this shines a light on some of the dynamics and mythology at work on this very forum?

    Don’t be shocked that I’m attacked as a result. YaReally went through the same thing, on a more epic level. Carry on men, I’m back to the real world for another couple of weeks.

    @All You Anklebiters – Please, carry on. You prove my points with each comment.

  33. Scribbs

    “Zero science or actual objective evidence to support what he’s saying about alpha.”

    There is loads of objective evidence, just look around. You see zero guys who are alpha who aren’t “socially dominant”?

    Go back to why Alpha is attractive to women. It’s pretty clear women are attracted to guys who have zero social dominance.

    And that provides the headspace to theorize… I said plainly this is a theory amd hypothesized the Evo science around it

    We are not wolves…

    Tell me how it is someone is “socially dominant”? What are the universal traits? The irreducible traits?

  34. On this notion of “alphaing up” or going from beta to alpha. Scribbs says he’s never once seen it.

    This has been posed before. It’s an interesting question.

    Scribbs are you saying alpha is genetic?

    I’ve seen a fair few guys “flip the switch” and throw off their beta “act”, which is what it was… Scribbs self describes this above.

    So the question remains… How many men are still acting beta? How early did they start this? It’s well known children act more alpha and this is conditioned out of them earlier and earlier.

    How many natural born alphas are there out there just waiting?

  35. Palma

    “Harsh adversity can convert a beta into an Alpha in some circumstances.”

    I agree. The question is though can you go back to an early age and observe alpha then?

    I have my own experience but it’s corrupted by this “early age” observation.

    So come on group… Spill it. Any early age betas convert?

    Would be nice if Rollo weighed in here…

  36. @EI

    FYI, fb friend requests aren’t date solicitations though if you’d give us literal, unadulterated, word for word deets re: “chased me on fb” we’d be all ears.

    These were old ladies seeking attention whom I met in the Philippines when they started flirting with me in a Wendy’s. They were trying to keep in touch for when I returned to visit. Logistics. You just have to understand how these things work.

    I’m not saying that I never dissemble, but in this case you are wrong. If anything, I’m conservative in my reporting.

    if you’d give us literal, unadulterated, word for word deets

    Pro Tip: Pay attention to what women do, not what they say.

  37. Palma

    I agree that circumstances can literally force men with dominant beta tendencies to alpha up.

    Or die.

    Any man.is.capable of adopting a dpa mindset at put it into action, but many will not do so.

    I’m less.clear on the ” socially dominant ” thing though, as the corporate environment has managed to infect a lot of general society allowing the most beta of men to ascend to leadership positions. lol, I’m sure those betas think they are alpha because of the deference others bestow on them.

    I’m solidly in the ” men can be whatever they want to be, and it starts inside your head ” camp, so yeah, a man can definitely alpha up.

  38. Blax

    “I’m solidly in the ” men can be whatever they want to be, and it starts inside your head ” camp, so yeah, a man can definitely alpha up.”

    Sure you can believe this, but we want evidence. Your story paints you in the childhood alpha camp.

  39. @ scrib

    Your insults are multivitamins. I’m not worthy to tie your sandals but at least I can tie my own.

  40. “I’m less.clear on the ” socially dominant ” thing ”

    As you should be because it’s generally irrelevant to the greater debate.

    If it isn’t clear from the get-go it probably isn’t helpful.

    That’s why scrib is deceiving himself. He equates word count with intelligence.

    There’s a correlation with parsimony and clarity and intelligence.

    Scrib, stick that in your Dragon Naturally Speaking and dictate it.

  41. “Pay attention to what women do, not what they say.”

    ASD,

    C’mon man! Not another dodge.

    Give us what they wrote to you and we’ll be the judge.

    What’s the downside?

  42. Often what makes a guy Alpha is the same thing that socially marginalizes him.

    But he generally doesn’t care so it’s all good.

  43. @ scribblerg

    I appreciate what you wrote about alpha and beta; I’ve also read some of the material on chivalry you linked to. I’m a slow thinker so I need time to digest things, but thank you.

    Regarding your colourful descriptions of my character, I’m not sure what to say. You’re the same with everyone, so it’s hard to be offended. I need to think about it.

    @ Incubus Rising

    You asked why I’m here, even though I’m not interested in lifting, etc.? Because I love Rollo’s blog and it makes me question my assumptions about being a man.

  44. @Palma – Great question. Fyi, I forgot to mention you as one of the guys I get a strong alpha hit on from this forum.

    The actually true answer is that we don’t know how much social dominance is socially constructed versus genetically determined. So, if we are being honest with each other, neither of us can say for sure. And what I was saying is that “I never saw it” – not that it can’t happen, two very different statements

    My hypothesis? Instead of mentally masturbating in this comment section, I read books (some of you guys would be well advised use your commenting time here reading books instead if you actually want to “know” something about the Red Pill) on all kinds of subjects that interest me. One of them is IQ and the development of it in humans. This has led me to very recent learnings in childhood development. It seems possible now that IQ and many other behavioral/psychological/cognitive aspects of humans are dramatically effected by the first year of care with a mother. Set aside IQ and check out this video on infant communications. It’s fascinating.

    https://youtu.be/0yVU2lmlMdk

    So, based on this and lots of other reading, I think it’s safe to say that we really don’t know how personality is and behavior is formed at all. What I do think is that they are set in place very early in life. I think they are fundamental and not readily changeable.

    Other developments and data that cofounds easy answers on this subject? We are learning that gene expression is quite complex and varied due to epigenetics and other factors. Environment matters a lot.

    But here’s the thing. We make this too complex. Alpha/beta is incredibly limited as a metaphor for classifying male behavior. It’s borrowed from much more socially simplistic animal pack behavior. And of course, there are female alpha wolves and pack leaders, so even in the animal world, pack behavior isn’t so simple. So, to take alpha/beta too far with humans is foolish. Just leave it at social dominance or not. And it’s signaled by others submission to you in social settings, not any particular behavior of the male. Other people show whether you are alpha. The rest is mere social intelligence or “game” if you will.

    For humans our social order isn’t just hierarchical, so alpha/beta conceals more than it reveals when overused or relied on for more depth than it actually provides. Great book on the science of human social groups and how important they are to all human progress can be found in E.O. Wilson’s The Social Conquest of Earth. Being socially intelligent and learning to traverse our social order intelligently and based on Red Pill truths is more crucial than being alpha or beta for any man.

    Last. And I’d love your thoughts on this. We need to give betas better advice than to just “alpha up”. Seems to me the avg beta who comes into the manosphere is presented with two options. First, “Alpha Up”, second is to MGTOW which means becoming angry and anti-social. Either of those options suck for betas.

    Why not just teach them social intelligence so they can be happy following alphas? Life isn’t fair. Some lead in this world, most follow. Be happy being a follower, you can have a much lower risk life and will be better liked. But you’ll never be respected the way an alpha man is. But you also won’t be torn apart by the mob every chance they get either.

    Just sayin’… I know I said I’d go, but I’m enjoying this. And my number one rule these days is to do more of what I like and less of what I don’t. Becoming my own MPO has all kinds of impacts, hehe.

  45. In other words what makes a guy human Alpha is his ability to subdue his shame.

    How well he performs in his particular social context is dependent on how well he submits himself to the social norms.

    Gangsta guy submits himself to the StreetWise gangsta life and is considered Alpha as he’s doing what he pleases but within that expected context. He is laid like tile until he is gunned down in a hail of bullets. Then we pour malt liquor all over his casket.

    Country club socialite guy submits himself to those swanky socially polite rules, and flourishes by doing what he wants but within that expected context. He is laid like tile.

    Carnival barker doesn’t give a damn about social status and only submits hinself to whatever mininimal rules the carnival has and likewise doesn’t give a damn about women’s opinion of him and he does what he wants in that context. He’s laid like tile.

    That’s why guys like Scrib are phony stuffed shirt Alpha. They care oh so deeply to project themselves onto other people. That weakness personified.

    Alpha is not about force-fed command or dominance it’s more about acta non verba leadership where others free willingly follow…irrelavant of money, physique, social status, intelligence etc.

    At least in the human context.

  46. “Instead of mentally masturbating in this comment section, I read books…”

    RP translation: “Instead of mentally masterbating in this comments section, I’m mentally masturbating to my books in the privacy of my own home. Can’t you see the difference in fags?”

  47. @Eh – LMFAO. It’s like I cast you to play my foil. Keep it coming, it’s just too perfect. Meanwhile, your real life races by…

  48. “That’s why guys like Scrib are phony stuffed shirt Alpha. They care oh so deeply to project themselves onto other people. That weakness personified.

    Alpha is not about force-fed command or dominance it’s more about acta non verba leadership where others free willingly follow…irrelavant of money, physique, social status, intelligence etc.

    At least in the human context.”

    When I was hanging out with my wife in the lobby of the Trump Hotel on Sunday, having a couple Sour Monkey beers for a couple hours, we were in some comfy wing backed chairs sitting right next to a large group of guys at four large sofas . I recognized a couple of them coming back from the CPAC convention in Arlington the night before.

    Jack Murphy and his girlfriend, Ivan Throne and his wife, Tristan and Andrew Tate, Mike Cernovith. A bunch of other masculine dudes.

    Observing their behavior: No on was out Alpha-ing one another at all. They didn’t need to. They were all warm machines socially getting along in a harmonious fashion. All relaxed, but eager to be with each other.

    An I didn’t need to go up to them and say high, and get more social proof. I was having a fine time with my wife.

    I did go over and say hi and asked if they were having a seminar, and was told no, we’re just hanging out socially. I introduced myself and who I was. Mike Cernovitch asked me if I was going to stuff like the 21 Convention. I told him I don’t need to. I’m fine with my social group of Red Pill Buddies (IOW, my small tribe. And a MBTI INTJ prefers to to have to have a large group to operate in. I’m fine and I reconstructed my Red Pill life just fine. I’m not plateauing or remaining static, either.)

    Point being is that you have a place in a social group. Make the best of it. I’m not going to criticize Scribbler, but we all have our solipsism and running around trying to out Alpha other men in a group to get girls is: well his successful strategy. It’s only one heuristic.

  49. Eh

    “it’s more about acta non verba leadership where others free willingly follow…”

    Alpha is attractive to men as well as women. It’s not sexual in this regard.

  50. Funniest? @Eh thinks Alphas are socially marginalized, lol. I couldn’t make this shit any more perfect, seriously. Do you see how deranged and wrong he is on just about every point?

    Angry Beta bitches stuck in Blue Pill self-alienation will bleat a lot guys, don’t worry he’ll come out of it eventually…

  51. There are alphas in all social contexts. Men and women find value in them qua them.

    Charisma. Yes. IDGAF, social calibration, patience and a solid center of gravity are charismatic AND tailored to an Alpha’s preferred venue. Moreover, he needs zero external validation to have complete, unyielding faith in himself.

    External validation: Any source of pride beyond our core existence. That includes IQ, intelligence, physique and even notch counts too.

    Scribs preferred venue is tossing off to his Poindexter irrelavant musings hence his MPoO is not within him qua him. It is in externally validating books or facts or history or assrapings or whatever he uses to small man syndrome lord over others.

    How dudes decieve themselves is pretty predictable.

  52. @Scribbs

    Damn bro. You can’t let an old man with a lifetime N-count of 1, easily trigger you around like this…it’s embarrassing lol

  53. @Eh – Palma reeks of social dominance, which is all alpha is. You? You reek of beta rage and fecklessness. Not social dominance at all. Sure, you talk a lot, but you don’t say much worth paying attention to. I know, you don’t get that. But the rest of us do, bunky…

    VoxDay would call you a “Gamma”, lol.

  54. What I do think is that they are set in place very early in life.“…

    -100…

    There is something called imprinting which occurs when you’re young that impacts sexual choices, but you’re generally off base on this….

    We need to give betas better advice than to just “alpha up”.

    +1…

    Why not just teach them social intelligence“…

    +1…

    2) And it would be helpful to have a group of red pill friends who help them to discover their masculine identity so that they can celebrate it and be confident in it….

    3) And it would be helpful to have a group of red pill friends who help them to discover the blue pill programs that are running in their subconscious minds, kind of like what HABD does…and what you need to do

    so they can be happy following alphas“…

    -1000

    Betas are often men who were alpha initially, but were betatized by the Blue Pill and LTRs. Your ideas suck for them because your alpha/beta model is too simplistic.

    There are faux alphas who are PUAs, but can’t maintain attraction for the long term. Not really dominant. An alpha can AMOG them without trying. But they get laid a lot. Then the girls eventually go, “Ewwwwww!” PUAs generally really aren’t competent at LTRs. E.g., Mystery.

    4) And it would be helpful to have a group of red pill OMGs who help young men learn about LTRs and develop their LTR skillset

  55. Good news! Daughter Gamer has a locums position in April for two weeks at 1500/day + 175/hr over two hours per day…and she has an offer for a hospital position at 500k/year + annual help with student loans + 4k for education in a small city with a big urban draw. Her local rental house is ready for prospective tenants and maybe SIL will be available to meet this week. And DG has another face-to-face interview scheduled. Travel required.

  56. Whew. Scrib had me on the ropes, didn’t he? Lol.

    Moral of the story: External validation is bad juju. It’s the source of your thumbscrews and ruin. If ya gonna have them for God’s sake don’t parade them around as virtues online.The internet is full of asshole trolls.

    Which brings is to “what is RP”: It’s a path to unbuffered reality.

  57. “Last Wednesday, the Supreme Court of British Columbia (B.C.) ruled that a 14-year-old girl may undergo transgender hormone “treatments” to support her transgender identity as a boy — without her father’s consent. The court went so far as to threaten to penalize the father’s speech. If he calls his daughter a girl, that would constitute “family violence,” which would be punishable by law.”

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/trans-takeover-father-must-call-daughter-a-boy-or-its-family-violence-canada-court-rules/

  58. Think looks are all genetic? Think again. Incredibly interesting video on how diet effects appearance, how much our diet has changed for humans and how it drives even our appearance. What do we think is attractive and why? Hmmmm.

  59. Fascinating topic. The subjects here happen to have the closest proximity, cultural understanding and opportunity to some of the most attractive – not to mention feminine – females on the surface of the planet.
    Just my opinion.
    And they’re blowing it!?

    If it is true that these men are genuinely frustrated with the sexual receptiveness from the friendly, but friendzoney, American women in the workplace, then with so much fail, how can they not default to stop what obviously isn’t working, and amp up their masculine feature sets?
    JFC, watch any Bollywood film (if you can stomach it) and the protagonist males have their shirts unbottoned down to their naval, chiseled pecs and 6 pack abs. The bad guys in the Hong Kong adventure films are all muscular, ripped and with scowls or scars.

    I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but it just seems to me that most men from these cultures do not lift weights at all, nor do they prioritize physical fitness and masculine physique. It’s just not important to them for some reason, even though Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Singaporean, Filipino, HK and Taiwanese AND American women privately to overtly prefer such masculine sexual attributes.

    Instead, Indian men, in particular, seem to want to put all of their chips down on “good job and earnings” and “nice, quiet shy/cute/funny guy”, and then expect hese girls will notice them. Some of these dudes are pulling down serious coin compared to their rivals. They have great future careers and income potential, excellent work ethic, excellent problem solving skills, and reliable doers. Good father and husband material for the right lady. No question.

    But viewed as an urgent, short term breeding opportunity? Not so much.

    What would happen if more Asian and Indian men starting doing 48 and 72 hour fasts, hauled themselves into the gym to do squats, deadlifts, curls and bench 4x to 6x per week and got fucking ripped?

    My guess is that most of their frustration would be significantly mitigated, if not removed entirely, and that all kinds of girls would respond favorably – red, white and blue – and begin to notice them for more than just the nice fella who always says “good morning!” and helps her out with her vlookup equations and pivot tables.

    I don’t question the female preference for height so much.
    This is real.
    But what also is real is how even dudes 5’6″ and 5ft 7″ who are ripped with v-taper and bowling ball shoulders have far more attractive women at their side than many of your 6’2″ dudes.

  60. ” . . . some of the most attractive – not to mention feminine – females on the surface of the planet.”

    I find the stereotypical nose problematic, but then I’m a Euro. Other than that I won’t argue.

    ” . . . they’re blowing it!?”

    The culture is patriarchal and strongly gynocentric. Arranged marriages are still culturally preferred, if not officially. Displays of public affection we take for granted as part of “courting” may be criminal there. They do not have the same intersexual background we do which puts them at disadvantage here.

    ” . . . watch any Bollywood film (if you can stomach it). . .”

    I have a particular fondness for routines based on Carnatic music:

  61. Interesting about diet and jaw size. Our oldest has the biggest jaw in the family. His wisdom teeth came in and there’s still room. There are spaces between his teeth. But he was also the pickiest eater. Think he only ate about 5 different foods until he was 12 years old.

  62. The idea that a highly varied diet is necessary is something that came out of nutritionist conferences. They decided that it would be easier to tell the stupid, unwashed masses to eat a whole bunch of different stuff and let the statistical variance deal with the specifics than it would be to actually teach them the nutritional knowledge to select a specific handful of things to eat that met their needs.

    The bulk of the Standard American Diet is now composed of four basic things: wheat, corn, soy and sugar. The processors have learned to disguise these four things as many, many things by varying the shape, texture, color and flavor.

    The real joke behind Bill Cosby’s Give the Kids Chocolate Cake for Breakfast joke is that — he was right.

  63. ” Growing up in Northern California….”

    Lifting for extreme size is mostly a western thing. In a lot of other cultures, bigger men mean manual labor and superior strength earned the hard(er) way.

  64. kfg

    I always wondered why my great uncles and that generation were so fucking huge and ripped and strong and basically never got sick….massive strokes and heart attacks at 90 years old aside.

    Down south, it used to be that folks ate everything and anything. I remember being offered a piping hot plate of pig brains and how nauseated it made me, but I was forced from time to time to eat pig and bull testicles.

    But just like the video shows, photographical evidence shows the changes over generations of dietary adjustments. My great uncle Sidney was all of 6’10” in height, and all 7 of his brothers were close to him or taller. My dad’s generation had a handful of well over 6 footers, but the numbers had started shrinking. Physical all-day-labor was beginning to wane, at least at the level of intensity prior. Sidney spent days on end throwing bales of hay into the beds of trucks. Throwing!!!!. My aunt/his wife basically spent all day cooking to fuel his appetite.

    Now the average height for men in my family is right aroung 6 ft – 6 ft 2or 3. that’s pretty much it, with a few outliers. My dad came in at 6′ 4″, but his big ( literally ) brother stood a full 7 feet proportional.

    Oddly, my daughter’s boyfriend, who is Ecuadorian, is about 6’1″ and ripped to shreds.

    Lol, that shit’s confusing because he towers over everybody in his family.

  65. “Think he only ate about 5 different foods until he was 12 years old.”

    Because, as a mom, you collapsed to his infantile desires. Fail.

    GTFO and goodnight to all my peeps.

  66. Lots of laughter around ” just lift bro “, but imo, it’s better than going Black Pill and wasting your time.

    We all get the exact same amount of hours in a day.

  67. ” . . . you collapsed to his infantile desires. Fail.”

    When I were a wee lad my mother had a hard time keeping me from eating butter by the stick. Turns out my infantile desire may have saved my life.

  68. Lots of laughter around ” just lift bro “, but imo, it’s better than going Black Pill and wasting your time.
    I call BS on this. I’m 5’5 and weight 155 and lift pretty hard for my 60yo frame. I can start fucking my 125lb gf on the couch downstairs, lift her off the couch while still inside her and carry her upstairs to the bedroom to finish off. She loves that shit.

    But yeah, it’s not just “just lift bro”. Game has a lot of importance too. But lifting is more importanter
    /s

  69. @scrib

    That guy should chew on a compass, because he looks like his features are upside down.

  70. @ kfg

    Between all the eggs and chicken breasts at your childhood dinner table a stick of butter was a perfect addition to your proto Atkins diet. Ketone heaven, steady blood glucose levels.

    I love your mom..

  71. @ kfg

    What’s your objection to butter? I love it in stick, pads, whipped, salted, or no salt.

    I love your mom.

  72. From Rollos twitter feed:

    Who’s-his-face preacherman:

    “Every time we stop calling sin, sin and start calling it a “disorder” women and children are the first to lose.”

    https://twitter.com/dreverettpiper/status/1103035077137702913?s=20

    This is akin to a headline:

    “Tornados strike Kansas! Women and children affected harshest!”

    Or akin to a homily titled:

    “Your sin sends the wife and children to hell first.”

    It presumes the women and her offspring require immediate attention where men, again, are left to figure it out on their own. The writer is suffering from WK, savior schema, FI biases or he’s furtively manipulative but that’s probably giving him too much credit. The preacherman sees people not equal in spirit nor equal in value. He’s playing an evil feminist game.

    The ”how to cuck your man” tweet and quora is disturbing. Can’t unread that. The more cucking is pursued in East-Coast media the more they marginalize themselves. It’s not like everywoman wants open marriage and guys a cucking though it’s discussed as if so. Women DO prefer AF with a side of BB…in the same guy….and will follow that special dickhead to the ends of the earth and off. But apparently that approach is out of the question for the Atlantic et. al., they suggest the high time investment, low quality result approach. Is one soiboi hanging around doing dishes and another soiboi -1 for fucking really the goal here? It’s not like she has A REAL DUDE as an option. Her desire to manipulate that situation is a realization she herself is DLV dressed up as DHV. Both the guys involved are messed up.

    The open marriage cucking-fucking guy….I guess I could understand that. A piece of ass is a piece of ass….it seems a bit overwrought and weird to knowingly bang another’s chick with the hubby, IDK, like, hiding in the closet watching. The homosexual overtones are everywhere within. Oh, I know personally a lesbian who sought out a certain sperm donor for herself and her lesbo gf for pregnancy’s sake. A utilitarian sexual fringe cucking happened there. Seems cucking is a go-to thing in sexual retard-world. They wanted some consistency in phenotype thus approached one guy for both. One woman gave birth and the other didn’t and balked further at the cucking. Now that’s all a-shambles and tense and weird. Kid is too young to understand.

    What would you think happens when people approach their offspring and lovers as property to be manipulated, owned and choosen, a la Gattaca? NBD, keep your shit together as best one can is a good policy and don’t own anybody else, just yourself.

    The high school shit-testy girl smackdown tweet was informative. Similar to the poolside vicious leg kick-out chick. She wanted the D, was begging for long-overdue discipline but people came to her rescue to stop her from the ultimate result of submitting. They mustn’t let the dude win outright and claim his earnings. She sure as shit won’t be lectured on how to engage men with subtle femininity.

  73. So basically this vid tries to build on data from online dating apps from america, that shows asian females are the most popular of females, and asian males the least popular of males. There are lots of reasons for that. One reason not mentioned, is that white women in america have become so overweight, and have been so brainwashed in toxic feminism, that the more slender asian women coming from more traditional cultures seem more desirable to white males. Asian women find themselves suddenly flooded with social options and attention from white males.

  74. Meh. Missing a huge point, in that the “local SMP” as he calls it also emphasized more stable pair bonds because there were only so many hot girls to even see with your own 2 eyes, so non high status men would devolve their standards down as much as the women.

  75. I’ve posted this question to people in the business of obesity:

    Is there only so much right-shift in the obesity epidemic nature bell curve nature will allow?

    Obesity isn’t a solitary pursuit. It requires enablers everywhere to keep these people upright.

    Have you lately been encumbered by someone being fat. Have you had to squish yourself into a wall to accommodate another’s bulk.

    I have….everyday and that’s just the observable greedy nature of gluttony.

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