A Sense of Ownership

When I was studying behavioral psychology there was a point when I came across this phenomenon called the Endowment Effect. A friend showed me this video recently and it reminded me of when I’d studied it.

It’s really fascinating how early our sense of ownership develops. There is a school of thought (one I happen to agree with) that this need for ownership is an innate part of out psychological firmware – it’s something we’re born with. We value things more highly once we believe we own something. It makes perfect sense that this would a selected-for part of our evolution. Individuals that possessed this Endowment Effect, theoretically, might have been more adaptable to their surroundings by having something on hand that would aid in their survival at the cost of a competitor. For early man this was likely to be physical tools, but this Endowment Effect would also extend to our progeny and long-term female partners – more on this later.

By extension, our belongings literally become a part of us. This is observable even on a neurological level. Furthermore, our belongings have an essence that becomes unique to us. In other words, we wont settle for (even exact) imitations of our stuff even when they are exact duplicates.

As you might expect from a TED video, the bias towards making this ownership dynamic one of being a bug, rather of a feature, of human development is evident. The new-agey narrative goes like this – if we’re ever to reach the utopian state of egalitarian equalism the Village would have us believe in, we need to somehow unlearn this innate Endowment Effect we evolved to hold. This anti-materialist sentiment is part of a larger socialist/collectivist message that seeks to disempower us by convincing us that this connection to our things is innately bad. Issues of socialism, communism, collectivism, capitalism, etc. are beyond the scope of this blog, but it’s important to consider the drive behind this ‘anti-materialism’ push and how it affects our sense of ownership in intersexual dynamics.

I think it’s interesting that we have a part of our psyches that evolved for ownership; a part of our nature that is decidedly unegalitarian.

If you’re ever read Dawkin’s book, The Selfish Gene, you kind of get a clearer picture of it. Selfish, self-concerned, organisms tend to survive better than overly altruistic or egalitarian ones. Now before you tell me, “On no Rollo, Bonobos are the peacenik, free loving hippy example of egalitarianism in the wild” have a read of The Naked Bonobo and you’ll understand how deliberately false that impression is. If anything Bonobos are far better examples of the more visceral side of Hypergamy in humans. Self-interest is the driver of a great many survival instincts and adaptations in all animals.

Getting back to humans here, combine that evolved, adaptive, selfishness with a hindbrain level, intrinsic sense for ownership – one in which we feel as if it has a direct connection to ourselves – and you can see what social constructivists and equalitarians are trying to undo in humans. If you watch today’s video you’ll better understand this deep connection we have with the things we, selfishly, consider our own. There is a neurological connection between our sense of self and our things.

I’ve mentioned the concept of ego-investment in our belief systems many times throughout my past essays. Briefly, ego-investment is phenomenon of being so intrinsically connected with our beliefs and ideologies that they become part of our personalities. So, to attack the belief is to, literally, attack the person. In a similar fashion the connections we apply to our things also become (to varying degrees) part of who we are. In essence we invest our egos into the things we consider ours – and the greater the effort, cost or the applied significance involved in getting those things the greater the injury is to the self when they are lost, destroyed, damaged or stolen.

In the video there is also a mention of how original items are more valued than an exact copy of those items. Again, this is part of the evolutionary side of humans investing their egos into those things. There is a limbic level need to know that these items are our things because only those things somehow contain the essence of us. Also in the video it’s postulated that the higher price of common items owned by celebrities we admire are a cost we’re willing to pay because we believe part of that celebrity’s essence is somehow contained in that item.

Why is it that we evolved to place such importance in knowing that some thing is ours, and only that thing is ours? Why do we, sometimes obsessively, need to imbue that thing with the essence of us? Why is this (apparently) part of our evolved mental firmware?

The Need to Know

I’m going to speculate here a bit. I think a strong argument can be made for men’s intrinsic need to verify his own paternity being linked to the Endowment Effect. In fact, I’d suggest that this ownership need can extend to not only a man’s children, but also to the women (even potential women) in his life. This isn’t to say women didn’t also evolve this sense – women display the Endowment Effect as much as men – but I’m going to approach this from the male side for the moment.

The video refers to this compulsive need to verify the authenticity of a thing as ‘magical thinking’, but is it really so magical? I think the writer and researcher would have us think this dynamic is silly because it’s ‘just a thing’ right? We shouldn’t place such a high degree of importance on a bicycle or an old guitar. That’s just vulgar materialism, right? Granted, some things, heirlooms maybe, can have sentimental value, but ultimately even those might well be replaceable too. It shouldn’t be so important to know something is magically your own.

Unless the thing that’s your own is your only shot at passing something of yourself into the future.

The butter knife that Elvis used to spread peanut butter on his peanut butter and banana sandwiches could be anything you can find at Walmart, but if his ‘essence‘ was in someway invested in that knife (and anyone cared to know about it) that part of Elvis might go on into perpetuity. That seems like childish magical thinking until you realize that the only part of the average person’s essence that might actually do this is their children. And until just recently, evolutionarily speaking, there wasn’t any completely dependable way to know if a man was 100% invested in his own ‘things’ – his progeny. His kids would carry on his essence, so in our evolved past it made sense to be obsessive-compulsive about the things that we’re one’s own.

As I stated, women also exhibit this effect as well, and I’d argue for much of the same reasons. Though, in none of the research related in this video was this Endowment Effect controlled for by sex – at least none that I’m aware of. Again, this is conjecture, but I would think that with the intrinsic certainty a woman has in knowing a child is her own, and the collectivist communal nature of women in hunter-gatherer society from which we developed, it might be that women place a higher ‘endowed’ value on different things than men do. I think this effect may be more pronounced in an era where women are almost unilaterally in control of Hypergamy.

I recently saw a video of a fertility doctor who had either used his own sperm to fertilize women’s eggs, or completely random samples to father about 40 children. The women, the children (mostly female) were absolutely aghast that he was their father or some donor who they would never know had contributed to half their DNA. The idea that the selection and control of Hypergamy was taken from them was worthy of the death penalty. Yet this is exactly the control we expect men to relinquish in this age. We will pat men on the back for abandoning their evolved instinct to ascertain paternity. We’ll tell a man he’s a hero for wifing up a single mother and “stepping up to be a father” to a child he didn’t sire and at the same time pretend that father’s are superfluous. We’ll change ‘Father’s Day’ to ‘Special Person’s Day’ and tell men they’re insecure in their masculinity for preferring a son or daughter of his own – but try to remove that control from a woman, try to tell her that Hypergamous choice wasn’t hers to make and it’s tantamount to rape.

“She was never yours, it was just your turn.”

I think it was my fellow Red Man Group friend Donovan Sharpe who coined this phrase. I might be wrong. I’ve read this around the usual Red Pill Reddit subs and other manosphere forums, but it wasn’t until last month (July) when I read yet one more story about a husband whose wife was leaving him and was in the process of Zeroing him out when he decided to kill her, their three kids and then himself. You can read the Twitter reaction to this here:

Naturally women were appalled at the deaths of the wife and kids, as they should be. Pre-divorce women will prep months in advance for their new singleness. Often they’ll check out of the marriage and live without any real connection to their, usually Beta, Blue Pill conditioned, husband who languishes in this Blue Pill hell for the duration it takes his wife to establish a new mental persona and finds a way to exit the marriage. She’s already gone from the marriage, but the typical Blue Pill husband believes that he is the source of her discontent and resorts to anything he can to ‘keep things fresh’ or ‘rekindle the old flame’ that a feminine-primary popular culture tells him should be his responsibility. Unfortunately, this guy’s situation is typical of middle aged men today, and I honestly believe is the source that drives suicides and murder-suicides in this demographic. This man was going to be Zeroed Out and he knew it was coming.

That’s when I thought, ‘Was this guy’s turn with her just over?’ Was it as simple as that? If you read this couple’s story there wasn’t a history of him losing his mind. If anything Matthew Edwards was a pretty dedicated and invested father. No history of depression, suicidal tendencies or abuse; just another average frustrated chump who built a life for himself likely based on his Blue Pill conditioning.

But his turn was over and he likely believed the soul-mate myth. How was he supposed to live with out her?

The fem-stream media offers up their standard pablum – “Misogynistic society teaches men that they’re entitled to women’s bodies. Men need to be taught that they don’t own women.” or something similar that goes entirely against a man’s evolved Endowment Effect. What exactly does a man get to think is his own if not his family? When a woman finds out that her Hypergamous choice was made for her by a fertility clinic doctor rather than herself they’re out for blood – again, rightfully so. Then why are we surprised that men, particularly men in Matthew Edwards demographic, resort to murder and suicide when faced with losing everything they’ve invested themselves in.

Now this week we see another, almost identical, tragedy in Colorado this week.

And once again we have what looks like another guy being Zeroed out and another quadruple homicide. How man more of these murder-suicides (or just murders in this case) is it going to take before we collectively see the commonalities in all of them?

I had a conversation with several women in the wake of this latest tragedy and every one of them couldn’t wrap their head around why the guy would kill his kids? They could understand why he might kill his wife – the assumption being her unborn child was sired by guy who wasn’t him – but not his kids. I think this is interesting in the light of how men and women approach paternity/maternity and the Endowment Effect. The best answer I could come up with is that a man doesn’t want that part of him to go on into the future without him. The idea that his kids bear some of his essence and he would rather erase that essence entirely than live or kill himself with the knowledge that his children wouldn’t have him in their lives. Killing a wife might be the result of an uncontrolled rage, but killing your kids takes premeditation – there has to be some point to the act, some reasoning (corrupted as it may be) that made sense to him.

The Strategic Pluralism Theory is from a research study by Dr. Martie Haselton:

According to strategic pluralism theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.

From a woman’s perspective, the ideal is to attract a partner who confers both long-term investment benefits and genetic benefits. Not all women, however, will be able to attract long-term investing mates who also display heritable fitness cues. Consequently, women face trade-offs in choosing mates because they may be forced to choose between males displaying fitness indicators or those who will assist in offspring care and be good long-term mates (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000).

The commonalities in every one of these murder-suicides is a Blue Pill conditioned, Beta husband who by all indications was playing by the First Set of Books. By all indications these men would fit into the second type of man mention in Strategic Pluralism Theory – they did everything right, they played by the rules, they did their best to invest themselves in their mates and offspring and likely believed they’d earned some Relational Equity from it. But then, their turn was over with their wives. For whatever reason they were faced with a complete loss, a Zeroing Out, of everything they believed they owned. The things they invested so much of their lives in, the things they worked so hard for, the things that retained his ‘essence’, the things they invested their egos in were all being taken away from them. When faced with such a reality men tend to look at only two options; remake and rebuild what they had in the knowledge that this too might be taken from them, or they can simply erase all themselves and all the ‘things’ they were attached too.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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TuffLuv
TuffLuv
7 years ago

Youre tripping.. and theres no perfect woman.. bit there are definitely degrees of quality.

My point is chasing sluts is chasing sluts. By all means.. go for it.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

TuffLuv
And I’m old.. not young.

So is kfg older than you or younger than you? In dog years, or in geologic time, pick one.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

TuffLuv
theres no perfect woman.. bit there are definitely degrees of quality.

OOoooh! Tell us more!

[Seriously wanting that Willy Wonka meme right exactly now]

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
7 years ago

You’ll have to figure it out for yourself

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“.. because that ain’t quality.”

Q.E.D.

boulderhead
7 years ago

Tuff are you somebodys mother?,seriously

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
7 years ago

Let me ask y’all something.. if your are interested in a mLTR with a girl. Does it matter if she has traditional values. Does it matter if she was raised right. Does it matter if she tells you she spent her early 20s ”making mistakes’ vs telling you she had 2 failed relationships? Does it matter how she plays you? Obviously if you are resolved to a life of ONS great, I’m not talking to you.. pussy is pussy. All sluts are equal. And they’re sluts because they’re fucking you. But if any of the above matters don’t telle you… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

Let me ask y’all something..

No, me first. Who pissed in your cornflakes? What’s up with all the black pill butthurt? Some Madonna turn out to be just another whore, or something else?

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“Does it matter if she was raised right.”

You’re not new here. How is it that you don’t know where you are?

” . . . if any of the above matters don’t telle you don’t recognize varying degrees of quality in women.”

There are women I wouldn’t touch with somebody else’s 10 foot pole (and some of them have caused me trouble over it), but I’m also reasonably sure that somebody else is touching them. Takes all kinds to a make a world and shit.

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
7 years ago

Anonymous. I didn’t rralreawe we’re all here to celebrate how great things are. I’m just tired of the clowns here exaggerating their bullshit, and most of all pretending to give a shit about the state of things, then prescribing an attitude of exacerbating the problem. I actually do care about the kids. I also have great amount of evidence iny life that things can still be done right as my extremely large family has about a 90% success rate as traditional, non divorced families. My giving a shit about the Crux of the issue, and my lmao at guys my… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
7 years ago

TuffLuv: “but if I see 55 yr old scribb hitting up on a 22 yr old chick and she’s actually responsive.. I’m stepping in with the mega AMOG and making him look real bad.” Grit your teeth and picture this image of the day: TuffLuv, alone in the shower, arguing and AMOGing a fictional Scrib hitting on his daughter or her gf’s or whomever. WTF? Why is Scrib even on his radar? How does Scrib even become part of his defense mechanism? Who picks a AMOG fight with an online persona? LOL. How did Scrib, by comments alone, create some… Read more »

boulderhead
7 years ago

While young men have more potential than old men,there is the deciding factor of recognized potential or experience.Most women even girls can sense this difference and realize the longer potential goes unused the less likely it is to amount to much. Hypergamy makes the choice between the two. I will be the first to admit however that most older men these days haven’t reached their fullest potential and likely never will. There are some exceptions along the lines of the pareto 80/20 or 90/10 as the case may be.This doesn’t equal limited options or game,limitations are personal. Tuff https://therationalmale.com/2018/02/02/the-marriage-game/ It’s… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
7 years ago

I’m out. Love you guys. Keep the faith and less is more, right?

https://youtu.be/sMmTkKz60W8

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
7 years ago

Have you read scribbs bs? Look the guy is an eloquent writer, and I’m sure he’s a force to be reckoned with just by his language.. but give me a break. He’s just number 1 example.. I actually like him a lot and his shit was far more honest when I first came here.. I don’t mean to single him out but on his success with women, though he may be on the track he wants to be on, is bullshit through and through. Many others here are the same. Not saying we didnt all have our haydays and successes,… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago


Have you read scribbs bs?

Only for lolz.

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
7 years ago

Boulderhead good post. There’s no easy answer. But kids. Kids. That’s why youre in a game you can’t win unless you play. I totally agree with what you’re saying.. but the answer isnt good enough. Especially when I’m only one of three failed marriages with kids, out of my circle of friends consisting of 30-40 marriages. In a quality area with quality people and the divorces were few, and the families beautiful.. including the women. Not tryna get all sappy and shit but here’s the trith.. It’s all about selection. Choose well. I didn’t err in doing it young.. my… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

TuffLuv
Not saying we didnt all have our haydays and successes, but this. ‘I got it figured out, all i have to do is be a dick’ bullshit has to go. It just ain’t true.

Now that you have mightily smashed that strawman, what next?

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

TuffLuv
Especially when I’m only one of three failed marriages with kids, out of my circle of friends consisting of 30-40 marriages. In a quality area with quality people and the divorces were few, and the families beautiful..

Ah-hah. Some date / milestone / event recently happen?

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
7 years ago

Btw wanted to share that a well known family man in my area, with a drop dead wife and three beautiful children, the respect of a very large athletic community and school district killed himself recently.

I was acquainted with him years ago, but my sphere was very well acquainted with him.

In my mind there’s only one thing that could have driven him to that…

But no one will say a word about it.

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
7 years ago

@anon

You’re really coming off as slightly retarded. Not sure where you’re coming from. You seem really impressed with yourself but I can’t for the life of me figure out why.

boulderhead
7 years ago

Tuff “It’s all about selection. Choose well. I didn’t err in doing it young.. my wife was rather fresh at 19. It was not my actions.. it was choosing her, in particular. I made a bad choice and I did have the information” First off it takes two to tango. It is more probable that you her and the next two guys were all blue pill as hell,and you accepting the faux responsibility of choice reinforces this. “Which begs the question, are YOU a good choice?” First off I am not your type. I made a bad choice and managed… Read more »

rugby11
7 years ago

TuffLuv
What was the reason for his suicide on your part from your point of view? How did that affect the community?

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
7 years ago

@boulder

Or.. your wife just wasn’t as hot as mine at 40 so she decided to ‘stuck it out’ with you..

There’s something to be said for marrying down.

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
7 years ago

I think his wife either was in an ongouonaffair and revealed it to him or just asked for divorce. That’s it. He knew hundreds of people and their children. He decided fuck this.

He didn’t seek answers but decided.. perhaps correctly.. that this was the only way he could respond. I’m sure it was also to spite her.

Humiliation. That’s why.

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
7 years ago

I am not exactly in touch with my old apgereand did not know him well enough to be involved. So I have no idea the reaction but I’m certain it would’ve made me puke.

400 people searched for him. FB invoked. it was announced he was found dead in apparent suicide.. not another word was said publicly.

boulderhead
7 years ago

Tuff,could be she wasn’t as hot as your wife 20 years ago maybe not as smart either. Definitely just as solipsistic,hypergamic and manipulative.

As women have reproductive choice they tend to marry up in most cases,I know my wife did,maybe yours married down?

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
7 years ago

Correction. They announced he was found dead. That’s it. I learned it was suicide by word of mouth.

They even hid that fact publicly.

Sorry for the shitty recall but yeah..

Does a man with a 1000 friends not have one who will stand for him. Does he not belong to everyone who loves him, not just her and their children, but all people in his life.

Shouldn’t they know why he would do this, despite the fallout. Shouldn’t one of his friends.. one of my friends.. ask the question.

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
7 years ago

@boulder

I’m thinking so haha

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

Re: heydays. I have always found the concept interesting, and even moreso once I crossed the 40 year old milestone. It’s almost blue pill if you stop and think about it. ” A man’s best years are always behind him ” kinda thinking that’s widely expected and accepted. ” If you’re older than ‘ X ‘, you’re last your prime “. The way I see it/live it, is that as long as you’re reasonably healthy and fit of body and mind, regardless of what your chronological and happens to be, there’s a great possibility that the best is yet to… Read more »

George Tasker
George Tasker
7 years ago

Feminists say – ” Men need to be taught that they don’t own women.” In line with the observation that “it’s just your turn” I would say that what they’re implying is that we don’t get to own women. We only get to rent them.

Chump No More
Chump No More
7 years ago

@eh,

I mentioned y’all because you’re the ones foolishly thinking that anything you say to this kid will actually make a difference. Your motives are honorable but you’re all talking to a blank wall.

He’ll figure it out eventually after he puts his hand on the hot stove a dozen or so times.

Or not.

boulderhead
7 years ago

Nobel Pussy Prize,LOFL

rugby11
7 years ago

On topic of inner self with cultural victory. Choice and responsibility and the Flame imperishable, compelled to do good. Men in death and good and bad. Human moral complexity that dosn’t have logic. https://bit.ly/2wzkztq evil within us that we cave into. Impusive animal’s and physical defeat vs spiritual victory. The moment’s that take the best of us. A huge story that we build with are Male urges and aspect’s of creation. A child or maybe a family. Own moral choices guidance on spiritual level. Red pill awareness over suicide and death on other’s. Restoring freedom of ourself’s on own responsibility… Read more »

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
7 years ago

So hey blax cool stories.. But I was wondering.. like I had an interesting young life because I constantly moved. I was exposed to FAR more variety becasue I constantly moved. I have rarely met a person who experienced more diversity than me. So what’s your story. How.. prey tell did you manage to meet so many women in your teenage years? I thought I did pretty good at around 20 notches but then I had the advantage of fresh meat every couple years or so. Tell us how it is that you found triple digit opportunities. Because I’m a… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

Lol. You’re not the first to ask me this, and I still don’t have a better answer other than location. I grew up in a.small.city measuring just over a square mile ( jersey is like that. Tiny state with hundreds of municipalities and hamlets ). Hey within that square mile lived close to 200,000 people. The next town over to the south had 300,000 and to the north was another 250,000 and 100,000 to the east and 150,000 to the west. No car was even.necessary. Across the river in NYC were 8 million plus souls. Every kind of woman.you.can.imagine. Everywhere.… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

Oh yeah tuff, look at jersey on.a.map of the United States. Now, realize that there are 8.5 million people.crammed in here. There’s literally no place you can.go that’s womanless, and then it’s just a numbers game. 20 chicks = 2-3 good looking bangs.

Art least that’s how I see it.

So unless we get hit by an asteroid, there’ll always be some.hottie to bang.

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

Well, I’m having a bit of trouble following why J can’t understand why OMG discussions become circular. Him projecting and attaching importance to what is going to happen to himself 25 years in to the future. That idea alone disqualifies him from any understanding of how to live till you as a man reaches fifty. Also what the fuck is this bizarre discussion with TuffLuv, or I should say TuffLuv spewing? It never ceases to amaze me, about how men here pick their avatar/screen names. So what your are saying TuffLuv is that all of us OMG’s that are happy… Read more »

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

” . . . the masculine ecstasy is to drive toward the goal . . .”

Whether we stand, or whether we fall,
victory is fleeting; the fight is all.

Men do not hit a wall – they give up.

comment image

The man is 54. The girl is 17. The man certainly had his ups, but he also had his trials and tribulations. He never gave up, so neither did she. Eight children.

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

“”He is my world,” she said of Chaplin in Salinger. “I’ve never seen or lived anything else.””

Sounds like ownership to me.

But wait someone is going to say it’s their turn next?

Orson
Orson
7 years ago

Older guys can definitely pull it off with younger women. The right question is what part of her hypergamy is this old man tingling at that point in her life. As hypergamy is the visceral reality of women up until they die…her decisions around men are dictated by it. Usually it is indicators of wealth and status and to lesser extent the charisma of old men. The owner of the company I work is 50+, very wealth man and in good physical shape. Despite being married he started banging a 20something girl he brought for work in the company He… Read more »

Orson
Orson
7 years ago
Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Orson

“As hypergamy is the visceral reality of women up until they die…her decisions around men are dictated by it.”

Hypergamy is a reflexive response to stimulus. Like the Patellar Reflex. It is not a constant function like a heartbeat.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

True dat.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

Funny thing about the whole ” it’s just your turn ” saying. I’m not surprised that Donovan whipped that saying out because it’s old and we’ll worn. If memory serves me ( which it doesn’t sometimes) I first heard it in the early 70’s. And it was usually out forth after some relationship catastrophe for a man where he was cheated on / left for another guy. I assume it was to provide solace in.some.capacity.. But it bullshit of course. Well, yes it applies to some women – and under the right circumstances, it will apply to ever more. But… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Wazzup Blaxie So I’ll just post this here instead of FRs since we are talking about old gyys and younger women. Recent example… Chapter 234 in Girls Are Where You Find Them 10AM. In a lower SES neighborhood picking up a part. Girl at the counter helps me. Rocking body 5’8″ maybe 130. Solid 8 dancer body. Tiiiiight. Crazy hairdo… Tats on her arms. 6.5 face. Nice but nothing special. Turns out she is 26. Interaction at the counter is 6 minutes… She helps me find the part I need, brings a different one, I tease her about doing magic… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

trouble…in a good way

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

@J and whoever – While you pussies were arguing over what color nailpolish to put on when you eventually go on your “boys not out”, I was working dozens of new girls. A bunch online, I have an entire aspect to my funnel that comes from online. And guess what? A new 20yo left my house at 4 am this morning. Didn’t fuck her yet but have a bit of sexual, push/pull. Building intimacy, stoking interest. My “long game” at work. I close a girl like her over time, sometimes. When they get to this point my close rate is… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

Clarification: For you guys who authentically aren’t into fucking young hotties, this doesn’t apply. I know that some of the OMGs here are legit heavy lifting men who dominate their worlds. They’ve chosen another path. Remember, I’m making lemonade of my lemons. I wanted a family and all the rest, but I got smashed up and now am honest with myself that I could never take that chance with a woman again in terms of traditional marriage. So I had to figure out what game would work for me, and you should too. Choices looked like… 1. Settle down with… Read more »

j
j
7 years ago

@scribbs lol “A bunch online, I have an entire aspect to my funnel that comes from online.” what? bad ass old guy not having any success cold approaching 20 year olds in bars/clubs, so he has resort to online game? Kant: “I have 100 lays from online and that does not make me a master seducer by any means. The hardest part of seduction is the hook for daygame and isolating and dealing with obstacles for night game. In online game you meet the girl already hooked and isolated and socially framed so it is seduction on easy mode, so… Read more »

boulderhead
7 years ago

“And this is what the 20yo from last night is pushing me on… Authentic connection.”

She wants to feel it? Authentic connection for the solipsistic is all about feels,does it feel authentic? At 20 she will find authenticity then throw it away,best work on your chick crack game.

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

Oh I get it – J thinks I’m invested here, lol. Or in him, lmfao. @J – Carry on, you were talking about my life. I’m very happy with my game and my life. How about you with your’s? Note I didn’t claim be a game master, merely a journeyman. I also specified that I’m into “seduction” not “pickup” and same night lay isn’t my game. So, if you are gonna try and call the balls and strikes with me, you might start by discussing the game I’m actually playing, not the one you think I’m playing in your tiny,… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

Lol, you guys think I’m looking for advice. Fuck, this is so precious. I’m out dialing my new AR, enjoy life on the sidelines, you fucking pussies.

j
j
7 years ago

@Rollo

“Women peak in desirability at age 18. Men peak at 50”.

https://twitter.com/parthianshot21/status/1035681379567185922

read the comments from the post walls and cucks for lolz

comment image

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

” Some “.

The eternal search for all encompassing hard and fast rules will always be frustrated.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

“Some” and “all” are not the same word. Ditto for “ought” and “is”. How many arguments have I seen in the last few months that boil down to men insisting that by golly, “is” should be “ought”? Too many.

“The first step to wisdom is to call things by their right names” — some dead guy

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

Reading Drudge for entertainment, and finding it.

Which man is more obvious, and yet oblivious: Bill Clinton checking out Arriana Grande from behind as she sings at the Franklin funeral…

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/aretha-franklin-funeral-internet-frenzy-at-bill-clinton-s-gaze-during-ariana-grande-s-performance-at-a3925066.html

…or this not-quite-a-feel-but-really-close sidehug by a church man?

https://www.france24.com/en/20180901-aretha-franklin-funeral-bishop-apologizes-groping-grande

Her face certainly says what she’s thinking.

Lurkers: File this under “Dude, don’t. Just don’t”.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

OGs:

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

Advice for YGs trying to do it the old way:

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

“lol. MM/RSD is beginner shit bro. Wanna get a whiff of advanced game looks like? Have a look:”

Had a look… Other than the instagram and online stuff (lol) it looked a lot like Mystery’s Method. Just using different words.

NLP is cutting edge? Somebody tell Ross…

I can’t wait until you discover this cool group called The Beatles J.

marelius
marelius
7 years ago

@Rollo, hurry up and get a new post up to help out the guys with nothing IRL to do this holiday weekend.

@Everyone else – if you can’t get up and go out, at least go listen to the RedManGroup’s latest.

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

“…..guys with nothing IRL to do this holiday weekend.” Shirley, you can’t be serious? http://i.imgur.com/wReMNTS.jpg You can always watch youtube for moments in the Aretha Franklin and John McCain funerals. As I mentioned, I was really impressed with the spectacle of the Aretha Franklin funeral. Lot’s of spirituality, Male/Female contrast and Light and Dark themes there. https://verysmartbrothas.theroot.com/the-10-best-blackest-messiest-and-ugliest-moments-fro-1828763269 10. Just as the span of Aretha Franklin’s career told the intersecting stories of the civil rights movement, the Black Power movement, Motown, rock ‘n roll, soul music, pop music, black culture, black America, and America, her homegoing told the story of the… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

Last two sentences mine, accidentally block-quoted.

j
j
7 years ago

@Sentient “it looked a lot like Mystery’s Method. Just using different words.” It’s not. Copy pasting this comment from another user (forgot the original source) “Issues guys have with MM: 1. A lack of focus on just fucking, same night lays, pulling in less than 2-4 hours, and racking up lay counts, and a much greater focus on getting numbers, getting multiple dates, spending closer to 7 hours to close the deal, and avoiding buyer’s remorse so you can potentially turn the girl into your girlfriend. 2. Not liking the A3 Qualification phase in particular because honestly it’s kinda hard,… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Yeah that old copy pasta is yet just another guy mixing up his thoughts on what he thought MM was…

The Solitary Silver FoX
The Solitary Silver FoX
7 years ago

@ kfg ” . . . the masculine ecstasy is to drive toward the goal . . .” ‘Whether we stand, or whether we fall, victory is fleeting; the fight is all. Men do not hit a wall – they give up…’ So many times these past 12 months i’ve felt like giving up, even to the point of fantasizing about suicide. But something keeps me going. Certainly no woman or kids as i have neither, but i believe in my talents/passion and what i have to offer, even though i’m yet to have anywhere near what i would consider… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

@marelius

You don’t want to read multiple wall-o-text mooings that are just like the previous “I, Me, My” wall-o-texts that are a reply to some other barking wall-o-text?

Dang, how unmanly. Totalllllly beta…

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

Silver Fox
Most importantly, i’ve got a small gang of solid men around me, men (apart from one) also without women (some long-term relationships have fallen apart in my circle recently, with the most capable, Alpha men you could ever meet having their partners leave them, still with young children in the mix)

You are an aging bachelor hanging out with other aging bachelors, some of whom are so socially incompetent and blue-pill that they let their woman leave with their children. What are you learning from them that you don’t already know?

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

Not picking on J
Not liking the A3 Qualification phase in particular because honestly it’s kinda hard

Well, ok…

“Math is Hard!” — Barbie

rugby11
7 years ago

The Solitary Silver FoX
“even to the point of fantasizing about suicide. ”

Please don’t do something that challenges you but the stuff you put out is appreciated.

“Everyone loves him. But Alpha men know the score deep down, of they wouldn’t be Alpha…”
Maybe Trauma makes red pill a mandate without choice.
Hit it and quiet it… Breed quiet and evolve

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

” . . . the masculine ecstasy is to drive toward the goal . . .” and get to the endzone…. Whether it be in the short term (la petit mort) or in the long term. Multiple STRs, or a LTR in which she is (attractive, with value added) in love with you and there is no threat of her leaving; you have all the leverage you need to assure yourself peace of mind and a steady sexual outlet. (.Note: no mention of monogamy or commitment to monogamy. Optionality. High upside, low downside is your friend. Choice. You don’t have… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

“Most importantly, i’ve got a small gang of solid men around me, …..Alpha men you could ever meet …so we are helping each other on masculine projects like building etc, and riding our motorbikes together and so on.” Most importantly, that is a springboard. Cultivate that, and keep pushing forward.That matters in the long term. Leverage that. Use time with male only tribes to get stuff done. Ignore your buddy’s failings. Act like it didn’t happen. It’s just a fumble on the football field. That happens, but doesn’t prevent the win in the long game. When you reflect on your… Read more »

rugby11
7 years ago

Ownership of Creation Fartherhood and lack of respect for Son.
https://bit.ly/2CachOR
Son
Farther
Husband
https://bit.ly/2oxEHZy
Mother..

The Solitary Silver FoX
The Solitary Silver FoX
7 years ago

@ Anonymous Reader “You are an aging bachelor hanging out with other aging bachelors, some of whom are so socially incompetent and blue-pill that they let their woman leave with their children. What are you learning from them that you don’t already know?…” Let this be a lesson to us all as these are very solid, capable, hard men, but perhaps they were living according to the old book of rules in regards to women. They fathered kids with younger women, who, regardless of all the graft the men did for their families, it could never be enough for the… Read more »

Orson
Orson
7 years ago

@The Solitary Silver FoX Well said! ” it could never be enough for the modern female who is easily seduced by the temptations of the wider world.” Professor David M.Buss said something similar that women have evolved to optimise their hypergamy in the small group living environment where she would be exposed to maybe a couple dozen potential mates but now she’s exposed to millions due to urban living and potentially billions due to the internet and online dating sites! This gives them the impression that there is always someone better right around the corner and makes them dump their… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Fox

Lessons in here

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=671&v=zfMqgdOA5PM

Frame, MPoO, DPA…

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

@J – Ah, substantive commentary on MM, cool. One hint though, try reading and thinking before responding to people, you will come off like less of a jackass… I’m not going for same night lay. As an aside, that of course doesn’t mean I’m not able to notice when girls arrive pre-aroused or already good to go. Seduction is the exact wrong approach for a girl on a cock-hunt. Which is a very small pct of the women out there. This is, of course, why calibration is crucial, and why it’s important to get away from “routines” entirely. Also, i… Read more »

j
j
7 years ago

@Scribbs “Seduction is the exact wrong approach for a girl on a cock-hunt.” Right. That’s just screening for DTF girls. Those girls specifically came out cause they wanted dick (easy to tell once you recognize the signs). No qualifying/comfort necessary. (Last night’s girl was out with her gay best friend. and to me it was obvious he was trying to get her laid with someone attractive. All I had to do was walk up, be fun with the gay guy, chit chat in their own language (they were Colombian) make some sexual jokes, and then go home with them. As… Read more »

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

Game is as game does:

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Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

J, I told you I’m not attacking you, i.I’m just trying to get you to analyze and think about what you are saying because what you tell yourself is.more.important in.the long run, than anything you can.ever read in.pua.forums and the like. You’ve never heard me say banging chicks is wrong or anything like that. I’ve been.Crystal clear. I’m addressing your mindset regarding that, and being that this is primarily a.RED PILL site, I happen to think elevating women a little too much is.not good.for.men,.and.is.great for the FI and marketers. Hang who.ever you want is my point. Mine your motivation doesn’t… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

J,.serious question, if you only came.upon 6’s and 7’s for the next year, w what would you do?

If you couldn’t find 8’s and.9’s anywhere, how would you feel/react?

Screenshot pussy ain’t game in.any form or.fashion. Game is.stress free.

But, I can’t get that lightbulb to go off in your head yet.

Time.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

Fucking spellchecker…..

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

Not ” screenshot pussy “, I typed ” stressing pussy “. Lol, wtf?

Boob lover
Boob lover
7 years ago

Shut up Rollo, Donald Trump is an Alpha Buddha, he owns the country you live in

Boob lover
Boob lover
7 years ago

You should vote for him Rollo, because only person you can find suitable for President for this country is You or Donald Trump

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

Tick…tick…..tick…..

Boob lover
Boob lover
7 years ago

Tick..tick..tick , your dreambubble popped out stupid, you here blax for at least 2 years and you couldn’t speak out anything against Rollo, which means either you’re Rollo Tomassi on another username or you worship him like a tigress worships a Tiger

j
j
7 years ago

@blax “J,.serious question, if you only came.upon 6’s and 7’s for the next year, w what would you do? If you couldn’t find 8’s and.9’s anywhere, how would you feel/react?” I’d flip the fuck out. lol but we got the internets so I wouldn’t “stress” about that hypothetical scenario. But if that were to occur: I’d simply move. Move to somewhere, after having researched the following: – Does the city I’m interested in moving to, have a good amount of girls (I) consider hot (dark brunette hair, tan olive skin or pale skin with greenish grey eyes, and slim body… Read more »

Boob lover
Boob lover
7 years ago

Because when Trump supports women’s right s at the same time calling Hillary Clinton a nasty woman, Ikr he’s a positive masculinity in the head

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

@ScribblerG Trust me. Things are genuinely going well with me. Because of learned Mastery via Red Pill, via the Manosphere, via red pill buddies in real life. Trust me. I think things are genuinely going well with you. Thanks for your genius level commentary over the years. This was truly profound in Red Pill fashion, distilled to the essence of Red Pill: “Women want to be fucked, they don’t want to fuck. Repeat. Even though they act like alpha bitches and seem to resist all attempts at dominance or even assertiveness, women want you to dominate. It’s not untrue to… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

Whoa. I’ve never been so enlightened about hypergamy than this week. First off was watching the epic thing that was Aretha Franklin’s funeral at Greater Grace Temple in Detroit on I think Friday. Epic spectacle. Emotions run wild. I got nothing bad to say about the black community. OK, there was not much hypergamy on display there, but there were tells. About feminism. Not that Aretha did it badly. Not at all. She did wonderful things for the fat sisterhood…. https://verysmartbrothas.theroot.com/the-10-best-blackest-messiest-and-ugliest-moments-fro-1828763269 10. Just as the span of Aretha Franklin’s career told the intersecting stories of the civil rights movement, the… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

My new fave Blaximus quote:

Screenshot pussy ain’t game in.any form or.fashion.

Because otto karet is our fiend.

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

J “Mystery in 1998 (year MM was created):” Speaking to hard up autists, who flocked to him… “No qualifying/comfort necessary.” Followed by qualifying and comfort… “All I had to do was walk up, be fun with the gay guy, chit chat in their own language (they were Colombian)” It’s A C S, or rape… Dont kid yourself otherwise. You can get sex with little C… But there will be some. You can start at S.. And it works… Sometimes. Not consistent… (Screening is an example of being inconsistent) And there are examples in the book of out of sequence results… Read more »

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

Wow. Just wow:

rugby11
7 years ago

Women and ownership
https://thetransformedwife.com/women-are-no-longer-marriage-material/
Do men ever owned anything but are self’s?

j
j
7 years ago

@Sentient “did you actually read MM?” 4th book I ever read with regards to women (the first 3 were, The Manual by Anton, Art of Seduction by Greene, and Bang by Roosh) The thing you gotta understand is: Every pickup model out there uses some form of the standard A C S. Whether it’s the London Daygame Model, Gunwitch’s Seduction MMA, Todd’s The System, JMULV’s Occam Razor..the list goes on. Where the models differ however, is the way in which you progress through the stages. Calling every model, Mystery Method, just because they go through A C S, is silly.… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

I would concur with PalmaSailor on the balance in life issue. The difference in potential experiences from 0 to 25 years old (half of which other people and society had your back) and 25 years old till 50 years old is completely different. You want to build a solid foundation of security that can weather possible intrusions on your health, wealth and connection with others socially. (Bloody Hell, read PalmaSailor’s book of his story on his way to Red Pill and beyond!) Assuming you want to live out to your edge in a self interested masculine way, life entails risks.… Read more »

j
j
7 years ago

@palma

I went the first 21 years of my life without love, sex, and affection from women. Should something tragic were to occur to me that would prevent me from enjoying the fruits of my labor for the rest of my life, and bring me back to that early stage of my life, I’m sure I’ll be able to deal with it..:

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…Because I got to taste the fruits. if that makes sense.

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

J

“The thing you gotta understand is: Every pickup model out there uses some form of the standard A C S. ”

That’s the thing you gotta understand. The others which follow are derivitive… He set the “standard”…

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Like you don’t even get that this .” by moving her to an isolated part of the bar” is C1…

If you put down the grindstone you might start to understand what you’ve said you read.

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