One of the most vexing things a lot of Red Pill aware men encounter when they interact with women today is the expectation that women are coequally as rational agents as men. We were taught from the earliest ages by our blank-slate equalist teachers that boys and girls are all the same, having coequal potential for coequal successes in life (as they define them), then primarily focusing on the ‘correct’, female way of educating both sexes. This education isn’t limited to just the classroom; the Village uses many ways (media, pop culture, religion, etc.) to deliver what is fundamentally the same message – boys and girls, men and women, are essentially, effectively, the same with respect to their potentials. Now, that’s the message not the practice. Even when they are forced to recognize definitive differences they simply dismiss them by saying “We’re more alike than different” in the presumption that this should be enough to refocus and reinforce their blank-slate belief set.
So when men and women consider differences in gender, differences in double standards, inequalities in gender-specific issues and pretty much any empirical debate about these and other differences, men presume that the women they are ‘debating’ with are also looking for earnest, equitable answers beginning from the same coequal state of mutual interest. This is almost never the case.
The pretense that’s been embedded into men from the earliest years of their Blue Pill conditioning is since men and women are coequal agents they should both be interested in finding an objective truth together. But the frustration in this ‘debate’ comes from the simple fact that our differences are actually much more significant than the dismissals of equalists would want them to be. The roots of this deliberate misunderstanding are twofold: First, the innate solipsistic self-interest of women, and second, women’s predisposition to interpret information using the Emotional (versus Rational) interpretive processes.
When men and women debate intersexual issues of contention men opt for their innately preferred Rational interpretive process; we look for factual evidence to support a premise. Women opt for the Emotional process and then consider evidence. This difference in processing is where a lot of personal and ideological obstacles come into play between men and women. Our educational priorities of both men and women prioritizes the importance of emotion and its expression before a consideration of the Rational process. We teach boys/men to sublimate their natural proclivity towards reason by replacing it with the Emotional process. Thus, we’ve seen the push to encourage men to get in touch with their feelings or their feminine sides since the late 60s.
As I mentioned last week, women prioritize context (how a conversation makes them feel) in communication while men prioritize content (the information of the conversation); these differences are part of our biological/neurological evolved inheritances. This is where the misunderstanding starts between the sexes; however, calling this a ‘misunderstanding’ is a bit of a misnomer.
I’m sure a lot of readers think this is a longwinded way of saying women’s emotions blind them to the facts that men present to them when they debate. While this is true in a sense, this is shortsighted because, in the interests of simplifying things, most guys will just blow off the dynamics that build up this (often deliberate) miscommunication. Women don’t like the way a Rational-prioritized conversation makes them feel. Often the reality is unflattering to their solipsistically defined egos – but the communication feels wrong because women’s presumption is that men should just know to acknowledge their feelings in that debate (all communication really). On the female side the presumption is that men and women, being blank-slate equals, already know to prioritize the Emotional process, while on the male side men presume women will prioritize the Rational process because, again, we’re all the same, right?
This presuming that one sex sees the same way as the other is endemic in our time. I had a reader pose me with a similar example:
I had a conversation with my LTR at dinner tonight where I did a thought exercise with her. I asked her to imagine what it would be like if people visually saw different colors when they looked at various objects but had consistent names for those colors in their own minds. For example, person A sees what person B calls Blue, but it looks like what would be called green if person A could peer into person B’s mind. The point was we can’t know what colors actually look like from an individual subjective perspective. Although I tried several times to walk through this, she couldn’t comprehend what I was trying to explain. I then realized that this exercise involved imagining a first person conscious experience from multiple perspectives. This test could be a proxy test for (women’s) solipsism.
This thought experiment is a good way to illustrate solipsism in women, but it’s an even better example of the default presumptions men and women have of each other in other areas. As it stands today, in our feminine-primary social order, the Blue Pill conditions us to default to cognitive models that are defined by the female experience. Thus, whatever best satisfies a female-primary purpose is always considered the correct purpose. The way women think, the way women prioritize their Emotional interpretive process, is the right way for men to think – and the mutual presumption is that men already do (or should) think and process stimuli like women do. Anything else, anything that would recognize a difference in men from women, always feels wrong.
This default presumption of a female-correct way of interpreting and experiencing the world isn’t limited to our differences in communication. This misalignment of interpretive differences also extends to the false presumption that men and women approach the concept of love from a mutually understood perspective. Men love idealistically, women love opportunistically, yet men’s presumption is that both men and women approach love from the Disneyesque idealism they believe women are capable of. Men too believe that women see the same colors they do and have the same names for those colors. In this case those colors are the concepts and approaches women have towards love. I may write a new essay outlining this dynamic soon, but I’ve already written many prior posts on this experiential difference.
Rationalism vs. The Rational Process
As a result of pushing the Emotional process as the correct way of interpreting our world the Rational process necessarily gets demonized today. It feels wrong to a social order predicated on the Emotional process, so the truths that the Rational process reveals seem cruel, biased or vindictive when they refute the interpretations of the Emotional process. The importance of Emotion has been elevated above an interpretive process to where it’s now entered a metaphysical realm. This is where the Emotional process becomes Emotionalism. In the light of this, the Rational process is overshadowed and sublimated in importance. But the Rational process is what exposes emotionalism for what it is: Emotion is an evolved, biological interpretive process that serves our species well, but the feelings it generates are biological responses to environmental stimuli, not evidence of some higher consciousness or mythic existential importance that goes beyond anything in the physical realm.
The Rational process throws a cold bucket of truth on lofty emotionalism. As a result, and because emotionalism has been a basis of our social order for millennia now, the Rational process had to be debased in importance.
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding. – Proverbs 3:5
This scripture is an example of the conflict between emotionalism and the rationalism that popular social consciousness would like to apply to the Rational interpretive process. The Rational process is based in our collective and subjective intelligence. Healthy men and women both have the mental hardware to use the Rational process well, but where we differ is in our gendered mental firmware. When we collectively prefer one process to the other, this is where we decide which gender’s process will define our social order. In order for emotionalism to supersede rationality and ensure its preeminence appeals to the emotional above the rational have to be popularized.
If we could depend on an unbiased, unadulterated form of reason the Rational process would be a superior methodology. But as I stated before, rationalism is dependent on intelligence and that intelligence takes time. In some ways the Rational process is sensitive to both instinct and emotion, in other’s that reasoning is painfully, sometimes fatally slow. The world happens fast and vacillating in the reasoning process might easily kill an individual. Fortunately we have instinct and emotion to carry us through. The Rational process requires time because it requires learning, contemplation, theorizing and any number of high-order thinking processes to be effective. And even then, that effectiveness depends on reasoning’s accuracy. For the past three or four hundred years we’ve increasingly had the luxury to develop our Rational process, but for all the advancements it’s given us, when it comes to intersexual dynamics emotion is still the priority.
An emotional response to a situation is the single greatest barrier to power, a mistake that will cost you a lot more than any temporary satisfaction you might gain by expressing your feelings.
— Robert Greene (@RobertGreene) May 8, 2018
We have placed such importance on emotion at the expense of reason that we’ll risk personal safety in our ‘right’ to express it. No doubt most men are familiar with repressing their emotional responses, but it’s interesting to consider that even with this self-control and even with our innate predilection to process emotion differently than women, men are the ones accused of failing to be ‘in touch with their emotions’. On first glance Robert Greene’s quote here appears to be wisdom (I think it is) – self-control, mastery of one’s emotional state, is a virtue. Yet, in our emotional-primary social order we’ll hear women complain that men are less emotionally available. And this conflict illustrates again that whatever is expedient to the female imperative is what is to be considered ‘correct’ at that moment.
Empiric reason is the foundation of what humanity has made of itself. Setting aside emotionality and considering challenges in a Rational interpretive process is fundamental to understanding the emotional and instinctive process and their advantages and weaknesses. For the record it’s my belief that all of these interpretive processes in union are are necessary elements in the human experience, but my focus on these processes is to lay a foundation for a better understanding of them. It’s easy to get caught up in the demonization of the instinctual and the rational when the emotional is defining what’s bad or good for our collective experiences.
When I wrote Appeals to Reason I was exploring the futility of expecting women to transition into a logical reasoning of why she should logically be with a guy who was more than happy to embody all of the aspects she stated she wants in a man. The manosphere idiom is “no woman was ever reasoned or logicked into bed with a guy”, women don’t follow the Rational process when it comes to interrelating with men. It’s all Instinctual and Emotional, and usually in that order. A man might be able to use his rational facilities to better understand women’s evolved instinctual and emotional responses, and what prompts them, but reason itself isn’t the key to that interrelation.
Appealing to women’s logic and relying on deductive reasoning to sort it out is the calling card of a Beta mind. There is nothing more anti-seductive for women than appealing to her reason. Arousal, attraction, sexual tension, subcommunication of desire, all happen indirectly and below the social surface for women. It’s not that women are incapable of reasoning (hypergamy is one logical bitch) or are crippled by their emotion-based hindbrains, it’s that if you’re asking her how to be more attractive you don’t Get It. It’s in the doing, not the asking.
If you’ve stuck with me to the end of this series I want to say thanks. I really felt that these interpretive processing models needed to be fully outlined as what I’ll get into in the coming months will need this as a basis for it.
[…] The Rational Process […]
Hope this adds to conversation
So how many of you have come across recently posted graphs on Twitter which suggest that between 15-20% of single men between 22-35 (in USA) are functionally incel? Here is my post about those graphs..
Women and statistics are a bad mix, as Rugby’s Pew Research clips demonstrate — especially when those stats are based on self-reporting by female respondents. The kind of “statistics” that measure vague feelings and imagined slights are what often passes today for news and analysis.
So what you get all day is a bubbling reservoir of non-rationality. Of course, male reporters are also not so hot at seeing the fallacies behind the numbers they throw around — but in this feminized industry they wouldn’t get very far if they were.
“I had a conversation with my LTR at dinner tonight where I did a thought exercise with her. I asked her to imagine what it would be like if people visually saw different colors when they looked at various objects but had consistent names for those colors in their own minds. For example, person A sees what person B calls Blue, but it looks like what would be called green if person A could peer into person B’s mind. The point was we can’t know what colors actually look like from an individual subjective perspective. Although I tried several times… Read more »
@Rollo Good timing for this post, so what would be the best way to handle a rational vs emotional debate/arguement in an LTR? The common thing I notice is during an argument when she is bringing up something insignificant that I have done and i call her out the bs it always ends in her saying something along he lines of “Well I’m just telling you how i feel”…lol. Or the “I’m your girl and I just want the emotional support”… I don’t know, I guess I’m just looking for practical ways on how amused mastery would look in this… Read more »
… Of course, the major potential problem with “this default presumption of a female-correct way of interpreting and experiencing the world” is not crappy journalism but crappy science and engineering.
Great stuff Rollo. I haven’t finished this last part yet, but I wanted to put this our there. Despite the typical gender preferences for rationality and emotional processes, those preferences are frequently reversed in practice when it comes to entering into and remaining in or leaving romantic relationships. This is demonstrated clearly by your maxim that “men are the true romantics pretending to be pragmatists and women are the true pragmatists pretending to be romantics.” Most of us have fallen victim to oneitus with a girl who we realize later, isn’t particularly special. Explain that rationally. You can’t because is… Read more »
@Bromeo No one else is up I guess so I’ll take a stab, based on personal experience and a general reading of TRM advice… 1) Do not “argue.” The less YOU say the better, but you do want to prompt her lightly to get it off her chest, let it all hang out, let her feed and exhaust her need for a little drama or until you perhaps learn that there’s something more serious on her mind. Listen calmly and politely, prompt with “I can see what you’re saying” or some such neutral place-holder to let her fully get it… Read more »
also, Rollo I know you got tangled of with a BPD girl years ago. A woman with BPD is the quintessential example emotions trump facts, and the emotional all all over the place day to day and sometimes even on a minute to minute basis. It’s a trial by fire if ever there was one. As socrates said “By All Means, Marry. If You Get a Good Wife, You’ll Become Happy; If You Get a Bad One, You’ll Become a Philosopher.” and he had a crazy one. This is a fantastic tour of emotions over reason: http://shrink4men.com/2011/08/29/welcome-to-the-land-of-emotional-reasoning-id-turn-back-if-i-were-you/
It might be fun mocking women to “get more in touch with your rational side”…
Rollo’s writing style is interesting in itself. You think any woman ever writes like this? Nope. This type of devil in the details analysis will make most women allergic. It’s gotten to the point where I can tell if a man or a woman writes it. W Anton, the author of ‘The Manual’ (it should be on the sidebar) mentions that whenever women say that men aren’t expressing their feelings (apart from the shit test version of it), it means they aren’t giving THEM the attractive feels – the feels that come only when they communicate masculine expression and not… Read more »
Modern media is the IDEAL feminine locker room.
@Rollo: the winner of this year Eurovision (which I didn’t watch) was basically #MeToo song from a singer that is clearly obese. Eurovision is mostly politics most years and this year wasn’t the exception as the winning music sucks, that just wasn’t the best song by far, but it won through the public vote. I actually think it is worth watching a little bit of the song so you get an idea of how bad it is (although maybe don’t waste your time with the full thing). Anyway my wife agreed the music sucks so I transitioned into talking about… Read more »
The false narrative (“point deer, make horse”) of Marxist feminism is the propaganda that has generated the current state of intellectual genocide. This antiquated paradigm will be destroyed by the reactionary intellectual force it constellates.
I don’t think this is an example of male versus female brain. It’s easy for me to understand. Probably an individual thing and you’re overthinking it.
Your mind is hardly typical for females. You truly are a “speshul snowflake.” 😉
Did you feel something just now? I just gave you a virtual internet grabass…I don’t think Mike will object somehow…
The common thing I notice is during an argument… …and here is when you went wrong…in a real argument, where there is a real problem, like whether to spend money on a new appliance, a woman will be very logical… …in a shit test, a woman will argue emotionally… …when she is bringing up something insignificant that I have done… …this is a shit test… …i call her out the bs… …and here you respond rationally in an emotional situation, kind of like bringing a knife to a gunfight… …it always ends in her saying something along he lines of… Read more »
“Your mind is hardly typical for females.” Thanks, Gamer…I would like to think so, but I don’t really think that’s the case here. I’m pretty sure I could bring up the subject of different color perception to 20 different females today, and at least half of them would know what I was talking about. Likewise, I could probably bring it up to some men and they would have no idea…and not because they are particularly feminine. It’s a human trait to view things from our own perspective/experiences. Scott Adams talks about those two different films everyone is viewing. I mentioned… Read more »
@ bromeo As o.b.i.t. and ASD wrote. When she getting out of hand and you’re in a compromised location with no ready avenue if escape (driving the car, lying in bed), I’ve went nonsequitur game. She’ll be testing and I’ll calmly talk about something completely off the subject, she’ll try to refocus the conversation, I’ll talk a little more about something else unrelated and she’ll pick up that I’m changing the subject, she’ll say ”hey you…stop changing the subject”, laugh or generally go with the new subject or get frustrated In my meatheaded approach and give up. Anyways, you’re closer… Read more »
@Sri “It’s gotten to the point where I can tell if a man or a woman writes it.” The problem is that men are increasingly being conditioned to write like women (*in the female locker room of the media,” as you perfectly put it). It’s been a long, long time since I had a male editor on any project. Female editors flat-out admit they bring me in when something needs to be logically explained, but I still adopt my style accordingly for the wimmins. @asd “Like bringing a knife to a gunfight” Right, any emotionally fraught back-and-forth is playing on… Read more »
I would say that Betas and Alphas see the same thing different eg: “man should treat women well” for Beta it could mean to do what she wants, for Alpha thinks to give her multiple orgasms and make her beg for more.
Reframing things what we see and hear is the key to move from BP to RP
“Alpha thinks to give her multiple orgasms and make her beg for more.”
Alpha thinks to give himself multiple orgasms and make her beg for more.
This is the part I didn’t see coming,the part that has saturated our input for what is socially acceptable or desirably effective behaviour. “This scripture is an example of the conflict between emotionalism and the rationalism that popular social consciousness would like to apply to the Rational interpretive process. The Rational process is based in our collective and subjective intelligence. Healthy men and women both have the mental hardware to use the Rational process well, but where we differ is in our gendered mental firmware. When we collectively prefer one process to the other, this is where we decide which… Read more »
Don’t fall into the ” alpha is always sole!y about sex or conquest ” trap. It fosters real misunderstanding.
Thanks for the tips and insights @OBIT, @theasdgamer, @ehintellect.
Its definitely hard to validate the feels and listen to the hamster spew nonsense emoting, especially when its linked to something I have done that was randomly perceived to be taken so emotionally my her.
Right, any emotionally fraught back-and-forth is playing on her home field.
…which is fine…just play well and you both win…teasing…laughing at her silliness…flirting with her…swatting her butt…doing shit that annoys her and lubes her…make her squeal and giggle…smash her shit tests playfully…this requires work…all worthwhile things are hard…but you can also smash shit tests without saying anything…
There do seem to be guys here who can deftly harness female emotions, like a hydroelectic power plant. So perhaps Bromeo will get some tips from them.
yeah, where are those guys anyway?
especially when its linked to something I have done that was randomly perceived to be taken so emotionally my her.
you’re not quite seeing this correctly…she was feeling emotional and she just seized on something that she could use to explain her feeling…men fix things…she wants you to give her what she needs because of her feelz…pro tip: not a logical argument
Right, when she’s like that it’s the equivalent of a guy doing a workout — she’s working out her emotional muscles to stay in shape and enjoy that rush. So you let her go with it, don’t shut her down but stay collected and keep it light on your end. If she’s really getting nasty, abusive and erratic that’s an entirely different matter.
“Good timing for this post, so what would be the best way to handle a rational vs emotional debate/arguement in an LTR?
I don’t know, I guess I’m just looking for practical ways on how amused mastery would look in this situation, something that can be used as a guide or framework like A&A for shit tests.”
Like OBIT and EhIntellect said: First be unemotional because that plays into her hand.
This essay doesn’t give much practical advice, but it dissects her tactics well. Don’t fall for her tactics:
Like OBIT and EhIntellect said: First be unemotional because that plays into her hand.
…for novices, this is a sound strategy…once you develop more skill, you avoid anger and engage humor…
This essay doesn’t give much practical advice, but it dissects her tactics well. Don’t fall for her tactics:
…or even worse, expect her to argue like a man…because she’s just a man with tits and a vaj…
…her tactics…generally appropriate for an emotional engagement…
paging Blax and HABD…
Don’t fall into the ” alpha is always sole!y about sex or conquest ” trap. It fosters real misunderstanding.
…that trap is just another version of “Game is only about pickup.”
I got offered a job as a welder from a guy last Fri. night despite having no experience. Game.
I have an opportunity to read in a better university than I’m reading in right now. But , I have a crush on a girl which preventing me from leaving here. She is signalling me green sign as well. What should I do?”
Bang her, then leave.
If she’s that “green”, she’ll follow you, not hold you back.
I’m pretty sure I could bring up the subject of different color perception to 20 different females today, and at least half of them would know what I was talking about.
Go try it and report back with your estimate of their IQs.
If she ever complains that you’re not listening, I believe the mandatory reply is: “Huh? I wasn’t listening. I was staring at your tits.”
@eh Thanks for asking about my recovery from that car wreck, because I credit TRM with helping me through it all. 1) I was six months into a regular workout routine — inspired solely by the discussions on this board — that very possibly aided my ability to walk away from the wreck and physically manage from there on. 2) A recurring theme here is emotional control, and so I was in a better mental frame to stay calm and positive, after the wreck and even as it was unfolding (which strangely seemed like forever). While I had a bad… Read more »
Its definitely hard to validate the feels
Validate feelz? This does not compute.
“Huh? I wasn’t listening. I was staring at your tits.”
“Please be quiet. I’m having a conversation with your tits.”
Bromeo,first assume victory,then reframe the topic.
Here is a visual aid.
Arguing with the wife is like wrestling with a pig in a slime pool. First you will never win,second the pig enjoys it.
To Barb’s credit, she has almost gotten to the “new books”, “old books” contradictions in contemporary society.
Good to hear it and for your woman too.
“You never know where it might come from.”
Or why. I was chatting with some guys about death and why we’re not I navel gaze too much about it all. It’s a exercise in vanity and always disappoints.
“”This default presumption of a female-correct way of interpreting and experiencing the world isn’t limited to our differences in communication.””
Whose frame is it anyway?
Feminine behavior because their emotional states are easier to control in the long term. Female behavior may seem irratic and uncontrollable though the other side of the coin is submission…the stuff corporate empires and authoritative governments are made of…cheap labor and distracted citizens.
Hence men too are trained and expected to behave as women. It’s easier to extract more value from men that they’d get otherwise. Corporate America detests RP.
With all due respect, Rollo, you got that Bible passage wrong, which is unsurprising when taken out of context, as so many people like to do. It’s actually an admonishment not to trust your own perception(be it emotional or rational) but to seek God (i.e the Truth). It is tied to one important tenet of Christianity – that there is an objective truth, but we are incapable of knowing it wholly and correctly simply by our own devices. A few verses later than that quote, it states that wisdom and discernment are better than treasures, so the point is that… Read more »
It’s no coincidence that economic growth exploded after the enlightenment
Some great graphs
“It feels wrong to a social order predicated on the Emotional process, so the truths that the Rational process reveals seem cruel…”
Reason need not be cold blooded.
As xelamder described above, reason is as dangerous or more so than emotion when working with unknowns.
There are things outside our collective knowledge. Staring into a personal abyss helps one realize we can’t know everything…so relax with what we can know.
I leave the unknowable alone and enjoy the moment. It helps.
“reason is as dangerous or more so than emotion when working with unknowns.”
The things you know for sure that aren’t will fuck you up.
“There are things outside our collective knowledge. Staring into a personal abyss helps one realize we can’t know everything…so relax with what we can know. From the OP: ….women don’t follow the Rational process when it comes to interrelating with men. It’s all Instinctual and Emotional, and usually in that order. A man might be able to use his rational facilities to better understand women’s evolved instinctual and emotional responses, and what prompts them, but reason itself isn’t the key to that interrelation. Because they have skin in the game. Eggs are expensive. From Nassim Taleb, Skin in the Game,… Read more »
Have any of you guys had a chance to check out Fastest Car on Netflix? In my opinion, it’s a perfect illustration life in a feminine primary culture. A show about amateur drag racing, and people who make a living building performance cars? Nope. It’s a show about determining who to root for, based on the most unfortunate event a participant has had to overcome. Whoever deserves the most sympathy, is the most deserving competitor. What offends me most is that the contestants are interviewed with the sole purpose of getting them to cry on camera. It’s disgusting. There was… Read more »
“Now it’s the emotional money shot. Disgusting.
Gone are the days when men are given privacy in working out personal difficulties. It once was assumed that everyone suffers tragedies, and rather than dwell on those, you are to get on with life.
Even our entertainment isn’t allowed to give us the satisfaction a rational process can provide. The only correct process is an emotional one.”
That’s killing people from learning that its all workable in solitude and silence.
Solitude and Silence
“I leave the unknowable alone and enjoy the moment. It helps.”
The leader of the tribe…
Men and women and Books
@Rugby…. you’re starting to spam again…dial it down… post less…read more.
women don’t follow the Rational process when it comes to interrelating with men Just minutes ago, Mrs. Gamer accused me of insecurity because I didn’t want to hold her purse while she was getting out of the car. I just laughed and told her that she shouldn’t bring the purse if she can’t carry it (this is an emotional, teasing response–of course I didn’t expect her to leave her purse at home). She tried that accusation a couple of more times and I just ignored it. Then she forgot about it and went back to being sweet. Another emotional shit… Read more »
Pairing this: reason is as dangerous or more so than emotion when working with unknowns With this: The things you know for sure that aren’t will fuck you up. Such as: “We know for sure that tonsils and adenoids are vestigial organs with no function…” …which gave us millions of unnecessary tonsillectomies and adenoidectomies and many upper respiratory tract infections because of missing tonsils and adenoids. Yes, Virginia, tonsils and adenoids have an immune function. But the theory needed for tonsils to be vestigial organs. As well as the thymus, appendix (which is a repository for fecal flora), etc., etc.,… Read more »
So, i’ve been text chatting with a young woman i recently met (and mentioned in a previous post) who i find very attractive. She’s a dark, Persian beauty. She’s currently in a deep emotional funk after recently being dumped by her high profile music producer boyfriend. As i live 6 hours away from her it’s a bit hard to see her personally and game her F2F which i’m good at (when i’m in the zone), so i have to rely on text game until i’m back in the big smoke. I made a music track for an upcoming stage show… Read more »
I’m very focused on not giving her reason to put me in the Beta emotional tampon friend-zone whilst giving her the opportunity to express her current heart-ache emotions.
Kind of like cooking that fried ice thingie.
@asd Yes, i’m being very mindful of this. Giving her the opportunity to open up to me, but not pitying her or feeling sorry for her like a Beta would. Guiding the conversation to “I understand, but there are plenty of good men out there…” me, for example. Actually, there really aren’t plenty of good (real) men out there as we all know, and of course, being an attractive woman in her 30’s, she also knows that. But i know she has to come to this conclusion herself about me. So i’m giving her attention, but not too much. I’m… Read more »
This reminds me of an Eastwood movie.
With your mustache
And your paycheck
And your blue badge
And your limp dick
With mouth full
of the party line
And your weekends
We got an app for that
We got an app for that
We got an app for that
We got an app for that
We got an app for that
We got an app for that
We got an app for that
We got an app for that
You gotta feel that rhythm
Thank you Walawala
Music and being 50 Hardcore music metal
Dont break the Oath
“She’s a dark, Persian beauty.”
Easy on the pedestalizing. You’re setting yourself up for you know what. No one here cares what race or hb# or whatever.
Betas snipe…betas get Oneitis…and The Persian ™ will sense your Oneitis and wonder about you and your options…read Rollo’s chapters on Plate Theory…use Preselection…a lot…just like the other guys I fail to see why you are pedestalizing this girl and sniping…don’t you have other girls you are seeing?
Be honest with yourself and check whether you might be rationalizing.
@asd What do you mean by “sniping”? Maybe i am pedastalizing her physical beauty (as she’s my type), but she hasn’t shown me anywhere near enough of her personality or passion for me to be more deeply interested in her. I’m just giving her (and myself) a chance of hanging out together, and maybe something might develop. I have no idea what will happen at this stage, or what interest she has in me. Currently she’s still very wrapped up in the guy who dumped her. Yes, i can hear the warning bells, but i’m keeping an open mind with… Read more »
@Silver Fox. “Romantic fool” Easy on the rationalisation romantic fool is still hopeful beta blue pill mindset. The post is about rational thinking…the trap of hope, unicorns, “the one” has no place in a Red Pill mindset…shed that notion lest you start falling into the trap like an alcoholic thinking that if I take one drink and nurse it all night it won’t go back… Or allowing Rugby to fall back into his old ways…he knows better and is making an effort. Don’t trick yourself into thinking there’s some place for this old romantic gosh darn fool looking for lurv…… Read more »
I knew one of you lads would say that…
Good points Wala. Though i’ve been quite a natural charmer over the years i still do harbour BP tendencies that no doubt have been to the detriment of past relationships and scoring even more pussy. I’ve never had much trouble getting women; keeping the ones i have wanted has always been my problem…
I’ve never been that upfront bold, palma, though the drummer from a band of mine back in day always rolled like that. I have spun a few plates simultaneously back in the day, but then i had an abundance mentality and gave zero fucks. And it did work. I remember a trip home from playing a gig when i was being sucked off by my local plate in the back of the van whilst my new plate, who was sitting in the front, had her hand down my shirt stroking my chest none the wiser. The thought of doing it… Read more »
@ Palma ‘I wouldn’t even extend them the courtesy of a personal invite, I’d just say “a load of my friends are coming to the gig, come over and I’ll introduce you”…’ That would be a good strategy if it wasn’t a ticketed event. I’ve got my +1 comp which i’ve invited the Persian with. Not sure if i want to set up that situation at that sort of event. A bit disrespectful of two women i do like. The other weekend when i was in town to play a set i had pussy everywhere. Three i’d previously banged who… Read more »
‘Fish with a net, and see what surfaces…’
I like it, Palma…
Yes, courtesy is the word. I agree that respect must be earned. Men understand this but generally women do not. Most women now demand respect from men just because they have a vagina. And i do agree that neither of the options are entitled to anything apart from courtesy until they have earned it. Thanks for clarifying that for me. It’s given me a much clearer perspective. The fog is beginning to lift for the reborn FoX…
‘Toey’ is Aussie for a bit nervous…;-)
Well, i’ve invited the Persian and will comp her a ticket as promised. I like to be a man of my word. She’s really just my date to an event i have skin in, so it’s a bit of me DHV, in my eyes at least. It’s not costing me anything. I’m going to be invited onto the stage after the sold-out show to be introduced as the musical genius i am. Heheh! This may or may not raise my status in my date’s eyes. That will play out as it will. I don’t think she’s currently hot for me… Read more »
Sniping…focusing on only one target
I appreciate you taking the time to share your opinions with me Palma. I do respect where you’re coming from… However, i’m not going to let her use me as an emotional tampon, and it’s not dangerous as i hardly know her. I haven’t invested anything in her yet. As i see it, i’m attracted to her, we’ve had some good flirting action when i met her, and i’m going to game her. If she doesn’t come to the party i’ll take the party elsewhere. I’m not a Beta chump with no experience with women. And i basically already have… Read more »
I just don’t feel like the prize at the mo. There’s that four letter word…”feel”, lol…you’re used to thinking with your feelings…time to get over that…make your feelings submit to you…which you do by action…then your feelings will fall in line To hone your view of yourself as the prize, focus on your advantages as a man over most women… Strength (2x as strong, for the average man, and even more if you lift) Intelligence (not necessarily academic–your intel is probably musical/social) Creativity Abllity to take risks These things make you seem like a demi-god to a woman…and you need… Read more »
Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus captured many of these differences from an LTR/marriage viewpoint, but it’s not as deep as where Rollo goes. I read this when it came out quite a while ago. He danced around the subject from a spectator’s viewpoint, seemingly afraid to look into the abyss… I don’t think this is an example of male versus female brain. It’s easy for me to understand. Probably an individual thing and you’re overthinking it. I was thinking about the passage describing the color thought experiment last night and wondered when a solipsistic viewpoint would come… Read more »
“That would be a good strategy if it wasn’t a ticketed event.”
Do yourself a favor and invite all the women you know.
The moment you comped the girl a ticket you entered Beta zone. She hasn’t fucked you yet and you’re giving value away. All she has is sex to offer you. You are one of many on her radar…she’s not telling you what’s up…and her silence is rewarded with free ticket to music event.
Wouldn’t be surprised if she flakes as she doesn’t need more provisioning, esp. from a needy aging rocker.
Cheers asd Very good advice. As it is obvious to many of you following this thread, i am too caught up in feelings, which come easier to me than stoic rationality most of the time. I’m definitely the least Alpha of my gang. It is something i am struggling with currently, and have for most of my life. I have some sort of chemical imbalance which rises up and fucks me over whenever it decides to. But we are human after all, so feelings are quite natural, but i do get it, not to let them control me, even though… Read more »
“To pre select her you’d have to spin it so she witnessed other women being interested in you…”
Cheers man. Got it…
We should chat outside this forum sometime…
Am I missing something here?
“Currently she’s still very wrapped up in the guy who dumped her. ”
I see “wrapped up” as trying to figgure out what she did to scare the guy off before she was able to extract her full measure. Solipsistic at best.
“I don’t think she’s currently hot for me as she’s still mourning her ex who dumped her,”
Translates to, needs dick,misses dick,will study you to figgure out how to get what she wants…
@ Eh “The moment you comped the girl a ticket you entered Beta zone. She hasn’t fucked you yet and you’re giving value away. All she has is sex to offer you. You are one of many on her radar…she’s not telling you what’s up…and her silence is rewarded with free ticket to music event. Wouldn’t be surprised if she flakes as she doesn’t need more provisioning, esp. from a needy aging rocker…” You guys are killing me. It’s a ticket i’ve been comped. It’s my +1. For my guest. What am i supposed to do, sell it to her?… Read more »
Too much here to catch up on, but I caught the idea of how to argue or not argue with women from @Obit’s comments to @Bromeo. This is a great topic. Also the recounting of the story about the woman at dinner who couldn’t imagine the different colors with the same words, good stuff. First, the dinner convo. This is a common male mistake – the women wasn’t “different” intellectually/mentally, she was just dumber. What the commenter was setting was a classic abstract reasoning problem that it’s likely most people with under a 110 IQ couldn’t really figure out. Women… Read more »
Damn the pua’s for that phrase ” add value “. Now guys have another task added to a list to consider.
Good post scribb. You guys are killing it. Glad to know y’all…
Preselection is something women do when they show interest in alphas…the more women, the greater the Preselection.
Don’t focus on your musical talent as your reason for success with women…focus on your inherent attributes as a man. You must see yourself as the prize even if you didn’t do any gigs.
@SSF – Time to do the “takewaway”. Next time she brings up the ex tell her “that’s a real turnoff” and end the conversation. Don’t get in a fight. Don’t act buthurt, just realize that she’s not being what she needs to be for you. It’s a fitness test – a “shit test” in the vernacular – and you are failing. Any self-respecting man who wants to fuck a woman will not sit around while she laments for her ex cuz that means she ain’t gonna fuck me. Ask yourself this. Why are you settling for her breadcrumbs? Are you… Read more »
Fox Don’t sweat the ticket. Eh is right but it is a matter of degrees. Much more important is your frame in the lead up to the event, how you ranp up and sexualize and then how you act when in person. Sure it can be a huge beta misstep to invite her out and comp her etc. And id guys are being burned by beta stay away. But if you understand the rules, id you understand cat language, you have bigger windows. To me, having gone on lot’s of what we used to call “dates” in bygone times, the… Read more »
With all you cool cats in my corner, how can i fail…
Very funny coincidence for me in the clip you put up, Sentient…
Ssfox…check this out: “In nature, we had to expend some energy to eat. Lions hunt to eat, they don’t eat their meal then hunt for pleasure. Giving people food before they expend energy would certainly confuse their signaling process.“ If she’s interested in your engaging personality, looks, charisma, good. You do what you will with the ticket..but it’d be a great experiment how much energy you have to put into a relationship before you see bj one. I get your delimma, as all, AND I mean ALL, my “friends”, prereconstruction bailed immediately after I stopped handing out free time, talent… Read more »
“Try out-escalating her without losing your cool too much.”
@Silver Fox – First off, you are doing very well. You are light years ahead fo most older guys. A word about provisioning and advice from younger guys. Provisioning is not necessarily beta. Negotiating desire is beta. Thinking of provisioning as a way of getting laid is the issue. But comping her a ticket is easily also a high value demonstration. Fyi, in this stage of your seduction, you should be focusing on demonstrating high value. While I don’t have time to take it all apart, try the following: Text – Us old guys can fuck this up. Wait sometimes.… Read more »
I’m also interested in what juice i’ll squeeze, Eh… If she’s not juicy, then i’ve failed and i’ll next her quick smart… I’m just getting my eye in after too long on the sidelines… It’s actually a new female friend’s (who wants to fuck me but i’m not that keen) show we’re going to. I just made the musical centrepiece of her show, so i got comp tix and i’ll be in the audience with the Persian unless she flakes. Whatever happens, it’s another life lesson and possibly a good experience. At this stage, i’m fucked if i know what… Read more »
Don’t worry, scribb, i ain’t no sucker and no provisioner. I can feel my mojo coming back…
Good post, man…thanks
Wear your white suit today.
“The post is about rational thinking…the trap of hope, unicorns, “the one” has no place in a Red Pill mindset…shed that notion lest you start falling into the trap like an alcoholic thinking that if I take one drink and nurse it all night it won’t go back…” is there a “the one”? of course not there are millions of them and hunting for “the next one” is so much fun i absolutely believe in “the next one” is that hope? if so, i’m an irrational hopeful red pilled unicorn hunter but is a unicorn really a unicorn if they’re… Read more »
Met Wolfe one afternoon in the Ritz Carlton bar in Buckhead. Replete in his whute get up. Gracious guy.
Bonfire of the Vanities is a must read red pill book. Title says it all.
A Man in Full an ok read… Another take on zeroing out and rising, in unexpected wayd.
Should add Back to Blood, less interesting than Man in Full but awesome example of hypergamay from a woman’s PoV. Wolfe was totally red pill.
“Wear your white suit today.” Took me a while to get that. Tom Wolfe died. I read a lot of his non-fiction. It changed and inspired me a couple decades ago. Hell I even read “I am Charlotte” (which was about hookup culture at college) as well as “Bonfire of the Vanities.” and “A Man in Full”. I even read The Kingdom of Speech last year and took a lot away from it in terms of evo psych red pill, even if he was just creating a tale that only Tom Wolfe could tell with a straight face. It was… Read more »
@Silver Fox: I think this whole discussion should have been in the FR section already but that is up to Rollo not me. Don’t fool yourself into thinking you aren’t invested in the Persian girl – whoever pointed out you are sniping (Palma and ASD) got it. It is not even the ticket, it is the time and effort you are putting here asking for advice. You know how I know? Because I’ve done exactly the same with two girls. So I’m clearly invested in them (maybe I shouldn’t, but at least I’m aware of it). Sentient in particular will… Read more »
“Wear your white suit today.”
Who’s this Tom Wolfe guy? I’m wearing modest white as it’s day one of Ramadan.