Emotional Differences

The following was from a reader’s comment exchange I had back in March. I wanted to add this here before I move on to the Rational process, because it think it encapsulates a lot of the (often misguided) presumptions we have when it comes to the primary importance we apply to our Emotional process. As I mentioned last week, for millennia now we’ve elevated our Emotional process of interpreting our reality to mythical importance. So insaturated is this importance in our personal and cultural being that to even question it seems sacrilegious. We are literally born into a dependence on emotions for our own survival. That is part of our earliest development, but the conditioning that gives rise to the primacy of emotionalism is layered onto us for the rest of our lives. Emotionalism is the religion that we’ve fashioned from our Emotional interpretive process.
Women practice emotional manipulation and men practice emotional detachment. It’s been a game playing out for thousands of years. Somehow the roles got scrambled in the last century. Things will balance out one way or another in the coming future.

What’s been popularized in our social consciousness as ‘emotional detachment‘ is not a manipulation tactic of men. Men’s mental firmware processes emotion differently from women, but because we live in a feminine-primary social order we’re conditioned to believe that the way women process emotion is the “correct” way for men to process them as well. I made the point a little while ago in another essay that what we think is men’s incorrect way of communicating with other men is really men’s natural way of communicating. I’d linked to an article in the Boston Globe about the problem of “lonely middle aged men” and how they don’t do communication and friendship like women do. Men’s natural, general, indifference to their emotional state isn’t a bug, it’s a feature of our mental firmware.

This isn’t to say men don’t get lonely or share the same emotional states as women, but it is to say that men do emotions differently than women. We are naturally predisposed to prioritize information above emotion; the Instinctual and Rational processes come before emotion in our interpretive process. I can remember early on in my marriage when I would talk to a buddy of mine on the phone and then abruptly just say “see ya” or hang up. He knew I’d call him back to relay whatever info we were discussing sooner or later, but my wife thought something was wrong. “Is everything OK with Ray?” she’d ask, and I said “Yeah, why wouldn’t it?” She explained that she thought my ending the call like that was rude or that we’d had an argument. She was used to long drawn conversations with girlfriends or her sister and then ending them by some confessions of how much they would miss each other or some other meaningful way.

She thought my way of communicating was wrong, but this is how men interact with each other – say what you mean, mean what you say and get to the point. This was also the presupposition of the Boston Globe article and many other posts; men do communication wrong, men do emotion wrong, and therefore they must be conditioned to do them correctly. That is to say, like women do.

Men lack the hardware and the firmware to do this, but they are conditioned to reflexively respond as women do from the earliest age. Thus, when a man processes emotion naturally it appears he’s not “feeling” correctly or isn’t “emotionally available” to female-correct sensibilities. In this context a man doing emotion as his innate predispositions compel him to seems like he’s deliberately playing out some ’emotional detachment’ game. But rather than accept that men and women are different and deal with emotions in different ways our egalitarian Blue Pill conditioning makes us presume the man is being inauthentic.

“He’s not really that way, it’s an act, or he’s just withholding his emotions to hurt a woman.” This is the rationale that female-correct society has to resort to because accepting that men evolved to process emotions differently would also mean that men and women are not the functional “equals” that blank-slate equalism is founded on. Thus, their emphasis is to pathologize this emotional detachment and make it one more negative aspect of maleness in need of a ‘cure’.

I think your comments are pertinent and you brought good rational arguments. However they are along the lines of “that’s how we are, men and women”, that’s how we evolved and we can’t do anything about it because it’s in our DNA and our mental programming. Feminism is marching on the fact that we’re born equal, even if there are obvious biological differences. Yes, women emote more and have the means to be greater emotional manipulators. But men can learn the so called feminine behaviors (The so called Game actually involves this and I noticed some of the PUAs mentioning that it’s the bisexual men who are actually the greatest players) and women can also learn the so called manly behaviors (there are a lot of examples especially in our current society). Is it good, is it bad? Hard to say. The thing is that the family is an artificial construction that helped our civilization flourish and it’s been lately systematically destroyed due to what you’re calling feminine primary social order.

Evolution is a continuous process and my opinion is that it’s either people will somehow transcend their biology (see AI or some kind of other conscious evolution) or after some “dark” times of men being more like women and women more like men the things will come to the previous “normality” of feminine women and manly men.

Human beings will not transcend their own evolution, they will adapt with their environments, but they will not be removed from its influences. We’ve been force fitting and conditioning men to be women for the past five generation. We presume that the feminine is the correct, unitary way that humans should be. We call that egalitarian equality, but what it comes down to is adopting a universal correct mode of being and it’s founded on feminine/female control of what is right and wrong – at least for the time being.

However, this force-fits boys and men into an unnatural state they never evolved for and all because the feminine is the presumed correct gender norm that we base equality on. We’re all expected to be equally female. What has that got us in those past five generations? A male suicide rate five times that of women. Boys prescribed sedatives for acting like boys instead of ‘correct’ girls. I can go on.

The fact remains that you and many others of your mindset believe that evolving or being in control of that process only progresses if boys and men “transcend” their biology and think like correct females. It is the height of new agey metaphysical woo woo hubris to expect one sex to behave counter to its 100,000 years of evolved nature and become like the other to accommodate what it thinks should be correct. This is the crux here; the feminine-primary social order we live in today is predicated on the infallibility of the female experience, however, this experience is only validated if both men and women are prioritizing women’s Emotional process as a way of interpreting the world.

260 comments

  1. Always insightful and from an Aussie 🙂

    Im a subscriber to the email. Rollo can you send these in PDF form so the info can be read at a later date, im busy and these emails get snowed under and im starting to fall behind. Saving these to read later would be a great help.

  2. “people will somehow transcend their biology”…

    Ooooo, that’s a weird one, but common.

    Wow what a fantasy. And why dream of it? Where did this idea that we must separate from our biology in order to experience a superior existence come from? What is so shameful about being human and how did we come to believe in that shame so much that many seek such an impossible escape from it?

    It is not death that most fear, but life.

  3. Life or Death comes from many angles of experience. When i feel alive i am in a state of solitude not isolation. When i experience Death i will never be prepared in managing what i have seen it do to me. So what i do is i bring it up with Art something i can transcend the pain into. I made a painting for Blake holding a gun back in 2016 and drew imaginary arms holding back the trigger. It has to go somewhere. Bringing stuff up to the wrong people can cause everything to go deeper without ever being brought up again.
    So one important thing I’ve been learning is that Men can speak to men about the burden as a performance in managing Emotion as a process that mandates consistency. Lot’s of work goes into this so that is what Frame to be is. Consistency on behavior though and action.
    https://bit.ly/2wqxLUM

  4. This sounds like a stoic argument to me, and I think that worldview deserves some analysis.

    Detachment is key. The key tenet of this system is that one should accept what one can’t control. To that end, it encourages its acolytes to accept everything that comes from other humans, since people can never be fully controlled.

    The weakness of that system is that it neglects every aspect of politics, because politics is a human affair. It’s easy to think that dealing with people is feminine, since that’s what women are good at, but it neglects the nature of masculine social interaction.

    The problem with our society isn’t that men are taught to be emotional, but that they’re taught to express their emotions like women, to the detriment of male emotions. Anger and hate are masculine, and there is nothing that our society hates more. Loyalty and generosity are the same.

    Yes, men are supposed to have control of their emotions, but so are women. How is a woman supposed to emotionally manipulate a man if she can’t control those emotions? How is she going to get along if she breaks down when her friends act vicious to her? Men and women do the same thing. Women stab you in the back, while men stab you in the front.

    Our society’s problem is that women are allowed to run wild, while men are suppressed.
    We can’t fight with emotional detachment, because men are already detached. These false emotions are just a way of further alienating us, increasing our detachment. Detachment works for drones, like Epictetus intended, but it’s not a strategy for winning.

    It’s a damned useful tactic, but not a strategy.

  5. But Why is the FI trying to force men to be something that females are not attracted to?

    Is it just one Meta scale shit test so that the ‘nice guys’ more readily identify themselves so they know who NOT to fuck?

    Are they that lazy that they need US to identify the Alphas and betas for them?

  6. collegereactionary:

    “Anger and hate are masculine”

    Both of these are emotions and all emotions are feminine.

    “men are supposed to have control of their emotions, but so are women.”

    Women are incapable of controlling their emotions like men and don’t want to and never will. For if they do, they become like men.

    “How is a woman supposed to emotionally manipulate a man if she can’t control those emotions?”

    The fact that one must emotionally manipulate another goes to show they lack emotional control necessary to solve their own problems or challenges.

    “How is she going to get along if she breaks down when her friends act vicious to her?”

    She will get along better because her friends will then offer her sympathy and support.

    “Men and women do the same thing.”

    Only feminized men.

    “Our society’s problem is that women are allowed to run wild, while men are suppressed.”

    Don’t support society.

    “We can’t fight with emotional detachment, because men are already detached.”

    Emotional detachment is not enough, you have to act rationally. The point is, you can’t rationalize while you’re feeling.

    “It’s a damned useful tactic, but not a strategy.”

    It’s being masculine.

  7. Not Born This Morning:

    “It is not death that most fear, but life.”

    Excellent point. You’re on to something.

  8. collegereactionary:

    “The weakness of that system is that it neglects every aspect of politics, because politics is a human affair. It’s easy to think that dealing with people is feminine, since that’s what women are good at, but it neglects the nature of masculine social interaction.”

    Life with or without politics is a human affair. And you don’t need to change the world politically, if that’s what you believe. Also, masculinity is anti-social by nature, therefore, there is no such thing as “natural masculine social” order.

  9. @Rollo: I think when you refer to “Boys prescribed sedatives for acting like boys instead of ‘correct’ girls” you are mostly referring to ADD / ADHD, but I wonder if the same cause (boys being boys) is also partly responsible for the increased number of diagnostic of autism spectrum disorders. I suspect there isn’t necessarily a large increase in prevalence, rather mostly a larger increase in diagnostics. Surely part of that is because diagnostic tools have advanced and there is more awareness such that genuine cases that could have been missed are being found, but reading this sentence I also wondered if it is because what counts as “correct” has shifted.

    Simon Baron-Cohen (related to Sacha) is a proponent of the “extreme male brain” theory of autism…
    https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/study-on-extreme-male-brain-theory-of-autism-draws-critics/

  10. One of my forced behaviors that I have learned since I started working is to say general good mornings to all our female related departments upon entering their vicinities

    I find this stupid and pointless and never had issues with other men regarding this. Women take offense if I don’t.

    A male dominated environment, like the army, shows exactly how men choose to communicate. Prioritizing information over emotions.

  11. Zero fucks given is the outcome of this dynamic.

    I’m now seeing the reason I’m more successful with girls in their 20s now that I’m in my 50s is because boys in their 20s are a lot like girls now.

    These girls don’t want a sugar daddy and very often will pay their fair share…what they want is strength.

    The minute I let the shit tests get the better of me was the minute things would go downhill fast.

    Now I watch those old movies from the 60s and 70s with Steve McQueen lee Marvin Charles bronson and try to adopt that mindset.

  12. @Playsontpay.
    But Why is the FI trying to force men to be something that females are not attracted to?

    Women in general don’t think of the consequences of their actions…

  13. What is so shameful about being human and how did we come to believe in that shame

    That should be:

    What is so shameful about being men and how did we come to believe in that shame

  14. “But Why is the FI trying to force men to be something that females are not attracted to?”

    Feminism is merely a tool in service of the Globalist Equalists.

    The “there” there at the end of the day is not freedom for Womyn, it’s bondage for all.

  15. ““But Why is the FI trying to force men to be something that females are not attracted to?”

    Women can be fooled and hypergamy wants zero part of that trickery.

    This FI assists selection of men re: fucking vs. labor. We’re being herded into human cattle races.

    The difference is this: You have a choice in which chute you’ll travel. Cattle don’t.

  16. “It is the height of new agey metaphysical woo woo hubris to expect one sex to behave counter to its 100,000 years of evolved nature and become like the other to accommodate what it thinks should be correct. ”

    Nah, TPTB don’t care if you transcend your nature. You just have to act like you can. They demand your compliance, not your soul.

  17. “These girls don’t want a sugar daddy”

    lol you just reminded me of a conversation I overheard between two female employees (mid 20s) at a major retail store. One of them was going on about how much fun she had in Miami the previous weekend. She mentions how she got bottle service in both clubs she attended. “WE spent like 5 grand” I was like wtf why would a girl drop that amount of money on BS? How would a girl that works at a retail store afford that trip? And it was a perfect setup for what she was about to reveal next.

    Her friend goes “oh wow I could never afford that.” And the other one goes “oh (((I)) didn’t spend a penny. This guy paid for everything. He flew me down there and everything” they talked a little bit about how she met him online and this was the first time meeting him in person. The sad part: he wasn’t your stereotypical old ass sugardaddy. He was 26 years old. “You got to get yourself a sugardaddy” she said as they started to walk away.

    I saw the chick later (HB7) helping out a customer. Had I not overheard that conversation, I would have never suspected a thing

    Had you been in the club that weekend and seen that 26 year old dude with that chick sharing a bottle of Ciroc, you would have never suspected he spent over $5,000 on her….

  18. But Why is the FI trying to force men to be something that females are not attracted to?

    The “force”/”malevolent intelligence” behind this is also trying to turn women into something that men are not attracted to…raising T-levels in women and lowering T-levels in men. Making reproduction much less likely.

    The aim is to turn men into 2nd rate men and women into 2nd rate women and limit their numbers.

    This level of fucking things up isn’t natural to biology. It’s artificial, so it’s not from the physical plane. More likely from the mental/intellectual plane (i.e., socialist feminists) or even possibly spiritual in its nature.

  19. “Had you been in the club that weekend and seen that 26 year old dude with that chick sharing a bottle of Ciroc, you would have never suspected he spent over $5,000 on her….”

    You shouldn’t only suspect, but know. Bottle tables are made for posers.

  20. “Had you been in the club that weekend and seen that 26 year old dude with that chick sharing a bottle of Ciroc, you would have never suspected he spent over $5,000 on her….”

    She has no idea what he spent on her. I’m not saying she’s lying, she just plucked a number that is commensurate to her self evaluation and at the same time asserted her higher SMV to her friend.

    Girls (esp. that makeup counter babe) aren’t built for overt strategy in spite of Hollywood’s roundhouse kicking, super spy portrayals. If they gotta work for it beyond spreading their legs, it’s not worth it. It’s all they got, until they don’t then it’s fun and games with their emotions.

  21. Hmmm…”Broward School Officials: Parkland Gunman Assigned to Deferred Disciplinary Program Supported by Obama”

    Officials with Broward County schools confirmed Sunday night that Parkland gunman Nikolas Cruz was assigned to the deferred disciplinary program supported by President Obama.
    The acknowledgement comes after Superintendent Robert Runcie repeatedly claimed that Cruz had “no relationship” with the program.

    According to WLRN, two school sources said Cruz “was referred to the so-called PROMISE Program for a three-day stint after committing vandalism at Westglades Middle School in 2013.”
    The PROMISE Program was put in place to reduce reduce punishment for crimes among students in the hopes of cutting the “school-to-prison pipeline” for minorities. It lets “students who commit certain misdemeanors — there’s an official list of 13 — at school to avoid getting involved with the criminal justice system…[by attending] the alternative school, where they receive counseling and other support.”

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/05/07/broward-school-officials-parkland-gunman-deferred-disciplinary-program/

    Even the leftwing extremist Miami Herald confirms it…

    “Broward Schools said Cruz was never assigned to PROMISE program. But he was.” (the Herald is late to the party, like the very few other of the mostly leftwing extremist press in the U.S.)

    But not “The Nation.”

    Looks like Breitbart is right…yet again

  22. “She has no idea what he spent on her.”

    She might be embellishing, but the bottle service tables come with a pricetag (and yes, it might be 5 grand)
    That’s the point of the table. If it didn’t have a price tag no one would know.

  23. Seeking Arrangements grew out of the SFO tech world… I.e. young often brown dudes with money and zero game skills. Logic gonna logic.

  24. @ anon

    K. Let’s assume it was $5k.

    Her solipsism assumes he spent it all on her as if she’s worth that. She didn’t elaborate who else was there or what else this goofball was up to. She crafted that to fit her rapidly decreasing SMV.

    But I’m thinking he flew her down as a preselection DHV woman, Beta game thought $$ equals desire, and to him it’s worth it. If she fucked him it worked.

  25. ““He’s not really that way, it’s an act, or he’s just withholding his emotions to hurt a woman.””

    Here’s the danger of starting any relationship BB. This will become her thinking if a guy shifts AF. Why put yourself through that?

  26. This post, this series of posts on emotionalism is a reflection of, a reaction to, and a futile attempt to reconcile the fact that female emotionality used to manipulate man, in its histrionic often frivolous pursuit, now seems to have almost no constraint.

  27. There was a time that if a man, acted in a histrionic or hysterical fashion, they would get slapped straight by a man, literally.

    Those were more sensible times.

    So much to be said for state control. I say this hypocritically as I know I need to keep working on my state control.

  28. Eh…Here’s the danger of starting any relationship BB. This will become her thinking if a guy shifts AF. Why put yourself through that?

    There can be only one reason that I can think of – namely to preserve the legacy you have created in terms of children and nuclear family – but that said, there MUST be some conditions.

    You should do this iff (if and ONLY if) you have newly acquired RP knowledge, a solid support/advice structure in place (thanks guys), a true underlying desire for the woman you had been the supplicating beta to, and most importantly a willingness to scrap it all if she doesn’t come along with your new AF personality willingly.

    If all of those conditions are not in place, or soon to be, then it is far better to walk away and restart. If you have not yet established the legacy of a family, I can see no reason to convert an existing relationship from a BB to AF. The juice will simply not be worth the squeeze when you can just go find another from a clean sheet AF MPoO.

  29. Marelius,

    Just Beers was arguing BB first then AF in the last thread. Let me rephrase…don’t start beta and don’t go beta and if you are beta, stop. Fuck the consequences.

    Oh yes Alpha up all you can. There’s literally no downside if she doesn’t mortally wound you in the process.

    And get to it as fast as you can. IMO running through the flames is best so let er rip!

  30. File under “emotional differences”…

    Old White Patriarchal Capitalist Male CIO of Yale runs gauntlet after Yale Daily News Feminist Marxist Student editor objects to his “disheartening” comments in regard to her violating his explicit instructions by editing and running his op-ed piece on activism and the Yale endowment.

    Gut punching crimethink verbosity included :

    Rachel –
    I am furious – Don’t you understand simple English? – The piece was to be run without editing – I wrote that in all capital letters –

    What is the matter with you? –
    David

    Oh the slings and arrows she suffers!!!

    http://ydn-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Emails-with-Swensen-1.pdf

    https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/b1835wsj62pfvx/david-swensen-wrote-an-angry-email-then-he-pressed-send

  31. “It is not death that most fear, but life.”

    I disagree, so does Ernest Becker in Denial of Death.

    So does Rugby:

    Life or Death comes from many angles of experience. When i feel alive i am in a state of solitude not isolation. When i experience Death i will never be prepared in managing what i have seen it do to me. So what i do is i bring it up with Art something i can transcend the pain into.

    It’s not life most fear, it is plunging into life and living out to your edge and falling off (and dying) that most fear. Rugby is generating a symbolic defense mechanism, because in his childhood he was exposed to symbolic death over and over. He couldn’t take it any more at one point so he turned to emotional and intellectual buffers against that little death by a thousand blows.

    The basic premise of The Denial of Death is that human civilization is ultimately an elaborate, symbolic defense mechanism against the knowledge of our mortality, which in turn acts as the emotional and intellectual response to our basic survival mechanism.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-predator_adaptation

    Becker argues that a basic duality in human life exists between the physical world of objects and a symbolic world of human meaning. Thus, since humanity has a dualistic nature consisting of a physical self and a symbolic self, we are able to transcend the dilemma of mortality through heroism, by focusing our attention mainly on our symbolic selves. This symbolic self-focus takes the form of an individual’s “immortality project” (or “causa sui project”), which is essentially a symbolic belief-system that ensures oneself is believed superior to physical reality. By successfully living under the terms of the immortality project, people feel they can become heroic and, henceforth, part of something eternal; something that will never die as compared to their physical body. This, in turn, gives people the feeling that their lives have meaning, a purpose, and are significant in the grand scheme of things.

    In other words, we are so afraid of death on a moment to moment basis so we concoct elaborate defense mechanisms to guard against that intellectually. So often we guard what we really want and often fail to Go For It like EhIntellect on caffeine. That is the genesis of Approach Anxiety.

  32. The masculine ecstasy is to battle through difficulties to the reach Release from Constraint (symbolized metaphorically by La Petit Mort), whether that involves death or not. The PUA Games to get there the most efficient way possible. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

  33. “symbolic defense mechanism against the knowledge of our mortality, which in turn acts as the emotional and intellectual response to our basic survival mechanism.”

    Wicked good stuff.

    Rugby…you’re dishonest about fearing death vs life. Sounds heroicly poetic though. You’ve been reading too many graphic novels.

    Look rugby. Not fearing death or more accurately, accepting your mortality (vs. death as an escape option because you want ultimate control of your destiny, control freak you) is liberating as it forces you in this life to stop perceiving your life as perpetual, where your actions don’t have impact or if they do you can reverse that…then nothing you do matters, so, in your case, you can continue sulking and ruminate about a fearless death.

    So you can’t, rationally, be fearless in death but fearful in life…unless you create your own meyaphysics where death suits your self-pity and desire at control, creating a little rugby false idol, he who is in ultimate control of rugby…but you won’t say it explicitly because then you’d have to deal with THAT dissonance.

    False humility, otherwise known as masochism, comes in many forms. You’ve a superbug strain.

    Either what you do matters, is consequential or it isn’t. You don’t know what death is, rugby, except a buffer from life.

  34. Eh – yeah we are in firm agreement – go alpha NOW. My caveat was only with regard to reforming a pre-existing BB relationship. Very few people are in a position to execute that strategy. On NO account should anyone reading these pages enter into a BB relationship of any duration.

    JB – that means that you should never agree to meet her security/BB needs as a condition of the relationship. If you are negotiating this with her up front, you are deceiving yourself into the lie that attraction can be negotiated. If you are only negotiating this stuff in your head to convince yourself that the sex (AF) will follow the security provisioning (BB), then you need to read No More Mr. Nice Guy before you do ANYTHING else!!!!

  35. Off topic question, but why don’t you think women have attacked condoms yet. Saying it shouldn’t be up to the man to wear one? Isn’t the Condom one of the greatest threats to hypergamy (she can’t have your DNA even if she wants it)

  36. Women want the validation of Alpha sex. The emotion. The condom is irrelevant unless she wants to turn a AF into a BB.

  37. Can’t you get off the obsessive knowledge? You have made it a reward in your system to rationalise, explain and delicate delivery to fellow commenters…

    Modern Man☠☠☠

  38. ” . . . why don’t you think women have attacked condoms yet.”

    They have.

    “Saying it shouldn’t be up to the man to wear one?”

    Q.E.D. They want it on until they want it off. They attack condoms in private, one man at a time. Since they are the ones who get pregnant and want control of that, that’s the way it naturally has to work.

  39. kfg
    They attack condoms in private, one man at a time.

    Yep. What is a pin? What is a pinhole? Old news!

    Now it is pretty standard advice to players in pro sports such as the NBA :
    1. Always wear a condom
    2. Don’t let her touch it before or after
    3. Dispose of it by flushing down a toilet as soon as possible afterwards

    Because of the usual reasons.

  40. Now it is pretty standard advice to players in pro sports such as the NBA :
    1. Always wear a condom
    2. Don’t let her touch it before or after
    3. Dispose of it by flushing down a toilet as soon as possible afterwards

    Because of the usual reasons.

    Yep.

    Not a few men have been burned by the scenario where she slips the condom off afterward, blows them a bit to distract them with some more pleasure and then toddles off to the bathroom where, behind a closed door, she inserts the contents of the condom in her pussy before she disposes of it. Guy thinks she just needed to pee and is none the wiser. Courts in the US have awarded child support for kids from scenarios like this based on the legal theory that the guy, by not “restricting her from accessing his sperm” and instead “allowing her to obtain custody and control over his sperm” (i.e., by taking the condom), basically “gifted” his sperm to the woman, and it was thereafter hers to do whatever she wanted with.

    Always take take of the condom before and after, guys.

  41. @Playdontpay
    But Why is the FI trying to force men to be something that females are not attracted to?

    Kids don’t want to be spoiled for some rational reasons either. It’s the nature probing the boundaries. A man’s role is to keep it on track.

    Speaking of which… I’ll just leave it here:
    https://www.fatherly.com/love-money/desmond-is-amazing-happy-young-drag-queen/

    By the time Desmond was two or three, it was clear to his parents that he was likely gay. They had been testing him, exposing him to different things. What did he like? The Sissy Duckling, a 1999 animated film about a duckling that doesn’t quite fit in.

    Sissy duckling? And different things? Like what?

    Desmond’s first pride parade was when he was around two years old. He didn’t ask, but Wendy and Andrew wanted him to know what was out there.

    *rolls eyes*

    People noticed the little kid in drag not only because he was a little kid in drag, but because he was good at it. At eight years old, decked out in rainbow taffeta, light up sneakers, and a little bit of makeup, Desmond danced like everyone was watching. The next morning, he was on Perez Hilton. Media requests poured in.

    […]

    Desmond enjoyed the attention. He liked putting on costumes and voguing and speaking in pull quotes. He was playing around. The unexpected thing was that demand didn’t die down and that adults took his hobby — the after-school play of a little kid — very seriously.

    Attention. Too much or too little and it shapes your life so much…

    And here she is, the female:

    Wendy hasn’t considered pulling the plug on public appearances in order to make getting a job easier. Instead, she’s doubled down. She calls herself his “dragager” and openly admits that if his career takes off, it’ll be a full-time gig. She’ll be a showbiz parent. There will be rehearsals and expenses and late nights and busy weekends.

    This isn’t what she chose, it’s what Desmond chose. But acceptance and attention have created a feedback loop. Whether it’s virtuous or vicious is a matter of perspective, but it looks happy. Desmond looks happy.

    It’s not even her call, it’s Desmond’s…

    Andrew Napoles, WTF man?

  42. Child abuse. I’d like to beat those dumb assed parents with a very heavy chain.

  43. SJF:

    “In other words, we are so afraid of death on a moment to moment basis so we concoct elaborate defense mechanisms to guard against that intellectually.”

    We don’t fear death, we fear premature death. That is why some people (often humble grandparents) will pass away gracefully with smiles on their faces. The author is partially right, but overall wrong.

    Note, the following quote from the author describes a premature death perfectly:

    “it is plunging into life and living out to your edge and falling off (and dying) that most fear.”

  44. “Detachment is key”…..”We can’t fight with emotional detachment, because men are already detached. These false emotions are just a way of further alienating us, increasing our detachment. Detachment works for drones, like Epictetus intended, but it’s not a strategy for winning.

    It’s a damned useful tactic, but not a strategy.”

    To understand this and oneself, first one must fully understand what “detachment” really means and specifically what one is “detached” from.

    First, “detachment”. What does this really mean other than a disconnection, to become not attached, to disengage. If we consider our self “detached” then by this consideration, we admit or concede that at some point we were attached. How else can one become “detached” unless first attached? Merely the consideration of detachment vs attachment at least implies some form of attachment by association even if that attachment is only the result of relative measuring. If we explicate detachment from something, then we are actually establishing a form of attachment to it by our acknowledgement of it and our concern for it in terms of our attachment vs detachment relative to it.

    But the “it” is of most concern.

    Next, what is “it”? What are we concerned with being attached to or detached from? Her? An unrealistic idea of her? Her imperative? Her frame? This is the more crucial question because…

    Generally, a man controls his relationships or he is controlled by his relationships.

    So here we have two considerations concurrently. Our status of detachment-attachment and to what. First one must realize that total lack of concern is not an attack, a confrontation or an argument. It is simply just lack of concern. A man should not be concerned with that which does not benefit him. This is not “selfishness”. It is simply commonsense. And certainly, a man should not waste his energy or time on something that drags him down or destroys him. One of Rollo’s best quotes is “A woman should be a compliment to a mans life, never the focus of it”.

  45. “Child abuse. I’d like to beat those dumb assed parents with a very heavy chain.”
    Seconded.

    (side note: great new photo, Rollo)

  46. Rockit

    Those words you quoted were not the author’s words (Ernest Becker, Denial of Death). They were my interpretation of the thoughts in his book via Red Pill and Game lenses.

    I neglected to post the link to the Wikipedia description of The Denial of Death.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Denial_of_Death

    Beyond using the concept of the Denial of Death to be fully functioning as a masculine male with self interests, fully agentic with good Game, not understanding how that denial impacts one in the field, can lead to inhibitions like not understanding that rejection is better than regret. It can also lead to psychological dysfunction, most notably depression.

    From this premise, mental illness is described as opposite, dysfunctional extremes in one’s relationship with their own immortality project.

    Depression
    At one extreme, people experiencing depression have the sense that their immortality project is failing. They either begin to think the immortality project is false, or feel unable to successfully be a hero in terms of that immortality project. As a result, they are consistently reminded of their mortality, biological body, and feelings of worthlessness.

    Schizophrenia
    At the other extreme, Becker describes schizophrenia as being when someone becomes so obsessed with their personal immortality project that they altogether deny the nature of all other realities. The schizophrenic creates their own internal, mental reality in which they define and control all purposes, truths, and meanings. This makes them pure heroes, living in a mental reality that is taken as superior to both physical and cultural realities.

    My comments hinge on the fact that there a lot of people and men out there not living their lives fully because they don’t have a real cause/purpose/mission/immortality project. So they live lives of quiet desperation. Or boring lives like the linked in the OP, The Boston Globe article. The journalist was open to the fact that ““lonely middle aged men” could do more for themselves in a red pill paradigm, connection with other men in a tribe, let alone Rollo’s use of the link for another idea: women criticizing men for being Stoic.

    And certainly I’m talking metaphorical death or insults/roadblocks/high hurdles to a free Mindset. Not actual physical death when you are not done with life:

    http://freenortherner.com/2012/09/06/die-when-youre-done/

  47. Beta Bucks are quite literally prey who feed themselves to the predators that prey upon them.

  48. EhIntellect:

    “What’s premature death? Is there such a thing?”

    Good question. Premature death is to die without realizing your fullest/likely potential.

  49. Wow. Then 90% of men die prematurely each year.😀

    ….shit, that includes me.😥

  50. @IRL
    What the mother flying fuck is fatherly.com? (yeah I looked at it. Read a couple things. I pose the question nevertheless)

    Oy a klug.

    Why doesn’t tranny Desmond just change his name to John Benet and be done with it?

    Whilst my sproglette was growing and marinating I looked with horror on those hideous pageant shows like Toddlers and Tiaras. Brought to you by Pederasty, Inc. Even more offensive was these “pageants” were supposedly a “southern tradition” that all the good mommies did, uh huh uh huh.

    My most virulent onset of Involuntary Instant Stinkeye was when some nabob cutely hinted our 4 year old was so cute she should try out for one.

    (Love how they got skewered in “Little Miss Sunshine” and “Bad Grandpa”)

    So when a boy becomes a Chick With Dick it’s progressive and self-affirming? But when a girl dolls up it’s the Patriamalarkey again?

    Time to dip into my bowl full of Xanax and narf a few. I have plain, and peanut.

  51. EhIntellect

    What’s premature death? Is there such a thing?

    Dying “before your time” in common parlance. Examples are common, and not just in the legal sense.

    A friend of mine lost both her high school aged sons one night when their car was T-boned at an intersection by a drunk going way too fast. One son died at the scene along with his girlfriend, the other son died in the emergency room. Those were her only children, the girlfriend was like a daughter to her.

    Yeah, there is such a thing.

  52. Yeah, I’m not Teh gay or anything, but that is a nice pic of rollo.

    Wellll, I’ve totally got a man-crush on Rollo, lol.

    [Honk if you believe my bullshit.]

  53. I have certainly lost a few friends before their time one would say, both riding bicycles, both hit by drunk drivers, separate incidents.

    Both of them drank their fill of life for sure before they were killed but no doubt they both had bright futures ahead of them as well that were cut short.

    God bless ’em both, we had some fucking good times together.

  54. Lol. A buddy of mine used that picture of Rollo copied and pasted from the internet. (perhaps when Rollo had it on his Linkedin before he took it down). He was just using it as bait for checking out the girls in his area. He put his height as 6’2”. Large number of women contacting him. Then he changed his height to 5’6” to see what would happen. He heard crickets.

  55. Rockit and AR,

    Nah, there’s no premature death as you are using your perceptions of time, purpose, potential.

    As horrible as the lethal MVA is, and it is terrible for the tribe to lose its replacements, and it’s healthy to lament the deaths…but to claim they died not in their time is laying claim to their lives…lives that aren’t ours to determine nor jealously guard…as if we have any fucking clue why terrible shit happens to good people…but we’re too prideful to just let go of that control and make the best of bad sitiations.

    I’m blessed to know you guys. If you think this here, where you are, is it…all there is…well then, you’re missing the point of life and not leaning out over your own edge.

  56. Eh…
    Lolz. Five minutes of Alpo?

    Fatherly

    “Fatherly is the leading digital media brand for dads. Our mission is to empower men to raise great kids and lead more fulfilling adult lives. From original video series and deep dive reports to podcasts and events, Fatherly offers original reporting, expert parenting advice, and hard-won insights into a challenging, but profoundly rewarding stage of life.”

    Article written by the prolific “Lizzy Francis”… Of course.

  57. EhIntellect
    Nah, there’s no premature death as you are using your perceptions of time, purpose, potential.

    A merchant once went to a Zen temple and asked a monk “What is the path to wealth?”.
    The monk meditated for a time, then got brush, ink and paper.
    He wrote this:

    “Grandfather dies.
    Father dies.
    Grandson dies.”

    The merchant was perplexed and outraged. The monk calmly said “If the father died before the grandfather, it would be grevious for him also for the grandson. If the grandson died first, both the grandfather and father would be broken. This is the natural order of life and death. That is the path to true wealth”.

    No record if the merchant donated to the temple, though.

  58. SJF:

    “Those words you quoted were not the author’s words (Ernest Becker, Denial of Death). They were my interpretation of the thoughts in his book via Red Pill and Game lenses.”

    Then you helped me make my case. I simply don’t believe these death-denialist theories, in this case, that fear of death is what truly shapes and molds society/individuals.

    Psychological dysfunction is caused by mental trauma. And depression in men and women nowadays is often caused by frequent (and seemingly permanent) reversing of the roles: men being overly emotional/feminine and women being overly mechanical/masculine.

    “My comments hinge on the fact that there a lot of people and men out there not living their lives fully because they don’t have a real cause/purpose/mission/immortality project.”

    The vast majority of people are not living their lives fully (developing) and that is why we apparently have a great fear of death, IMO. But like the other poster suggested, it’s really the fear of life; that’s the problem. Most people don’t have a “purpose/immortality project” because they don’t want one (but they know they need one). Because having one means that you admit to your own imperfection. And if you want perfection you have to destroy and rebuild. Not a problem if it’s an art and crafts project, but if it’s your “being”, that’s different.

    “women criticizing men for being Stoic”

    This is petty and I don’t think about these things too much. Women have always been jealous of natural male instinct. For obvious reasons: it puts us in control. To say that men need to be more emotional is to say: don’t be rational then lose/give up control—to us (women).

  59. “Fatherly” looks a lot like the “Good Men Project”. Coincidence?

  60. Maybe Rollo can get an interview…

    Livestream of course. No chance for them to edit…

  61. kfg
    I can’t die, I still have telomeres left!

    Just evolve beyond that…

  62. Here in the coffee shop the barristas were all head-nodding to “Respect” sung by Aretha Franklin. Which as we all know was just her 1967 cover of Otis Redding’s song from a couple of years earlier.

    The lyrics are matriarchal projection from Aretha no matter how good her band, Otis’s song isjust a leeetle bit different.

    But it’s like the song from “Frozen”, all the girls know that, too…”no rules for meeee”.

  63. Then he changed his height to 5’6” to see what would happen. He heard crickets.

    Happens to me in real life all the time

  64. EhIntellect
    First off
    “control freak you False humility, otherwise known as masochism, comes in many forms. You’ve a superbug strain. consequential or it isn’t. You don’t know what death is, rugby, except a buffer from life.”

    Tell me a story about you dealing with this in your own life. Masochism is a maladaptive response to some serious violence that bleed into a sexual context. How in your life up this point have you been able to demonstrate to those around you the mirror image of a life well lived and a fearless approach to letting death come when it comes?

    Have you delt with suicide from someone you loved?
    “As horrible as the lethal MVA is, and it is terrible for the tribe to lose its replacements, and it’s healthy to lament the deaths…but to claim they died not in their time is laying claim to their lives…lives that aren’t ours to determine nor jealously guard…as if we have any fucking clue why terrible shit happens to good people…but we’re too prideful to just let go of that control and make the best of bad sitiations.”

    I’s like to have though i have learned this after all that has happened with me.

    “This is not “selfishness”. It is simply commonsense. And certainly, a man should not waste his energy or time on something that drags him down or destroys him.” NBTM

    Rooting our addiction and compulsion’s

    AR
    “A friend of mine lost both her high school aged sons one night when their car was T-boned at an intersection by a drunk going way too fast. One son died at the scene along with his girlfriend, the other son died in the emergency room. Those were her only children, the girlfriend was like a daughter to her.”

    Holy hell man… Are you still in contact with her? Losing both is heartfelt. Did she have support along the way?

    agent p “God bless ’em both, we had some fucking good times together.”

    nough said

    rockit
    Premature death is to die without realizing your fullest/likely potential.
    https://bit.ly/2wkm2qC

    “The vast majority of people are not living their lives fully (developing) and that is why we apparently have a great fear of death, IMO. But like the other poster suggested, it’s really the fear of life; that’s the problem. Most people don’t have a “purpose/immortality project” because they don’t want one (but they know they need one). Because having one means that you admit to your own imperfection. And if you want perfection you have to destroy and rebuild. Not a problem if it’s an art and crafts project, but if it’s your “being”, that’s different.”

    Admiting your own imperfection first to yourself free’s you. Destroy and rebuild being and art can collide in agony and turmoil. A madness of the spirit. Some of the most creative people i have run around with have gone though so much that they push though… They continue moving. They build themselves up and tear themselves down. Over and over again marching by the beat of a broken heart mended with care and attention that fathoms greater worlds of possibility. I coped with suicide by doing this

    Over and over again challenge myself to let it go… Stop going back to that place of hollow words and deed’s stop using the escape button stop searching and just being. The 37 Mile mark is where i spoke to the one’s i lost in the woods in the cold in the agony of knowing i wasn’t their when i could have been. It was never about me. It never will be about me. Wasn’t sure how to say Goodbye. Letting them choose a new direction and place to be a part of. Stepping back and getting to work on myself.

  65. rugby11:

    “Destroy and rebuild being and art can collide in agony and turmoil. A madness of the spirit.”

    That’s part of the fear. That you don’t end up rebuilding (and remain in a broken state), or that you rebuild less perfect than before. Regression, let’s call it. Not to mention, others may not like the “new you”. So you may (often will) lose friends and family, which is a fear based on feminine principle.

    “They build themselves up and tear themselves down. Over and over again marching by the beat of a broken heart mended with care and attention that fathoms greater worlds of possibility. I coped with suicide by doing this”

    Trial and error. It’s the only way we learn. A broken heart (for a man) is better than having a broken mind, and a necessary stage in masculine development.

  66. “Just Beers was arguing BB first then AF in the last thread. Let me rephrase…don’t start beta and don’t go beta and if you are beta, stop. Fuck the consequences.”

    Eh, I can see how my poor explanation of my thoughts came across like this. Let’s see if I can organize my thoughts better.

    Let me make a better separation of terms. In my mind there is safety/security (community, village, tribal cohesion) and hypergamy (af/bb)

    It was my mistake to conflate/confuse *group* safety/security with the BB side of hypergamy. They’re different things, yet mush together sometimes in practice: ie. without a strong feeling of safety, women are all over the place with their hypergamy.

    Later on in that thread, the chaotic effects of social media on female behavior was discussed. I think this is spot on. Women nowadays live in a zoo with no keeper.

    As far as how men should approach this issue, I really didn’t get into and largely agree with MPO and everything the OMGs here have been saying for years. I was trying to get a handle on female behavior (which I did in a sloppy and inaccurate fashion)

  67. @Just Beers

    That was quite a good explanation of a certain playing field.

    There is a certain safety and security in some of the OMG’s lives (community, village, tribal cohesion) that is actually somewhat of a help/buffer against AWALT female behavior.

    Thirty years ago, as a 27 year old man, safety and security was a prime purpose and mission that I had foremost in my goals. I worked toward that with gusto, while not neglecting adventure and side passions and dopamine inputs.

    Things worked out. Barely at on point. I was betatized after year 10 for ten years, I stopped being beta. And climbed back. During the climb back, the safety and security that I had built (including BB without remorse) actually prevented me from falling off the edge of the cliff. So there is that.

    The thing is: I feel for the 23 to 25 year old men out there including my son and his cohorts having to swim in the shark infested waters and chaotic new world disorder that is current inter-sexual dynamics. But the young men in my neighborhood seem to have agency and good heads above the fray because of the fact that they keep their rooms in order and have their wits about them and know that purpose and mission are important more so than being lost boys.

    It was always, actually, always hard for men. It just seems harder today. A bottoms up approach is best. Be the best representation of yourself and develop talent and mastery. Don’t slack.

  68. In my mind there is safety/security (community, village, tribal cohesion) and hypergamy (af/bb)

    There is no safety/security wiring in a woman’s sexual brain…there is only hypergamy…it has two tracks…1) af…2) bb…bb hypergamy aims at provisioning (resource security) and physical security…bb aims at getting the best deal for a woman’s existing offspring…af aims at getting the best genetic deal for a woman’s eggs…in our current context, af typically plays out as recreational sex, thus being sidetracked from the reproductive advantage that af hypergamy confers on women

    without a strong feeling of safety, women are all over the place with their hypergamy.

    This is totally wrong…for both tracks of hypergamy.

  69. “Masochism is a maladaptive response to some serious violence that bleed into a sexual context.“

    Rugby, forget the textbook definition for a moment. Masochism is a perverse enjoyment or comfort in your own sorrow. It’s a subadaptive response to perceived constraint. You get to virtue signal that you’ve heroically struggled but….your not willing to finish the “rise from the ashes” chapter of your life as you’ve become too comfortable mired in self pity. Good enough for some.

    “How in your life up this point have you been able to demonstrate to those around you the mirror image of a life well lived and a fearless approach to letting death come when it come?”

    By not vainly thinking anything I’ve done or experienced is singularly novel. It’s all been done before. But we don’t know this as most people solipsisticly can’t understand the solutions are available but aren’t as explicit as we’d like.

    For example: “Have you delt with suicide from someone you loved?”

    Just asking this question reflects your experiential immaturity and self righteousness. You think you’re all alone in your experiences? Really?

    Rollo stated a bit ago to bemoan one’s lot in a group of three or more men is inviting a game of one-upmanship. Guys here are patient with you as you’ve shown good will by changing your posting style and contributing more….so that’s progress for you…what next in the micro…more overwrought navel gazing? You do lots of that.

    Most people aren’t willing to accept or feel they deserve the answers and aren’t willing to ask AND receive them. So they really aren’t interested in being free of the stress as that’d destroy the subpar ego investments and they’d have to start over.

    People think life is work, struggle, labor…that’s what TPTB want you to think as it keeps you dependent, somehow, in some way on them.

  70. EhIntellect
    “You get to virtue signal that you’ve heroically struggled but….your not willing to finish the “rise from the ashes” chapter of your life as you’ve become too comfortable mired in self pity. Good enough for some.”

    Look i just increase my Weight at the gym by 25 pounds yesterday. Self pity? No Self esteem and confidence. Self exposure what is possible and the work to make it come about in reality.

    “Masochism is a perverse enjoyment or comfort in your own sorrow. It’s a subadaptive response to perceived constraint. ”

    Ok with the way i read that, you i have constraint’s on goals or accomplishments which i destroy for myself. What i think i have done is love the pain more than the process…
    That was most likely a response to something that didn’t set well with me without learning the reason why.
    https://bit.ly/2I6gUYt
    Chris warner a guy who climbed k2 i would reach out to about how to get passed the sorrow and enhance my overall life with nature. State of Solitude vs isolation.

    “You think you’re all alone in your experiences? Really?”

    The context for me isn’t being alone its being isolated. No I’m never alone and in part that’s a problem. Being alone in solitude brings up solutions. Wasn’t my intention to come across as if ever alone in any of this.
    All alone? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxIYt_dcKWk
    Play and Danger man keeps me awake and alive.

    Look one evening i was having a nightmare and i called the suicide hotline and the person on the other end asked me what was going on i told her and she asked me to call back later because she as new and wasn’t sure what to do. That got me laughing my way to sleep.

    “Most people aren’t willing to accept or feel they deserve the answers and aren’t willing to ask AND receive them. So they really aren’t interested in being free of the stress as that’d destroy the subpar ego investments and they’d have to start over.”

    Ask and receive (new solution new experience)
    When i was asking if you delt with suicide i was interested in learning about way’s if you have of getting beyond it’s emotional effect’s.
    EhIntellect
    If you where to die at this moment what ways have you parted to people around you in dealing with what that death entail’s?

  71. “If you where to die at this moment…”

    Warning: Gonna go woo here…

    There’s no death, no life, just passing through. That makes all this A LOT easier. Don’t have to think about it. It’s not for me to know. You neither, so fucking stop it.

  72. @SJF

    I agree with you that it seems harder for mid-20’s guys today than it was in my day. Social media and dating apps (among other things) require young guys to really tighten up their game and find work-arounds.

    I had a coworker, mid-20’s who just recently changed jobs and relocated to a new city. A half-dozen of us had a few drinks at happy hour on the Friday he left. One of the girls got sloppy drunk pretty early and was hanging all over him. She gave him every green light in the book, and he just stood there clutching his beer for dear life. I was appalled. She’s 21, probably an HB7 to most of us, nice rack.

    Texting with him the next day, it turns out that she eventually got him home to her place and got naked. Still, no sex… because he didn’t have a condom. Worse yet, his explanation continued that “she probably wants to be in a relationship before she does that.”

    I felt like I’d been kicked in the gut. Absolutely nothing I’ve told him in 2 years of knowing him sank in at all. She did all the work for him, and he misread everything and pedestalized her. This is a 26 year old I’m talking about, not a 16 year old.

    This goes beyond just being a natural beta, the full force of the FI has crushed all nature’s aggression right out of him. (There are probably environmental factors that contribute to low testosterone, poor dopamine responses, and other hormonal imbalances that also factor in.)

    Much of why I’m trying to work through the Red Pill so carefully is to try to help younger men who ask for my advice or input. Clearly, I failed this kid (and the girl who didn’t get what she wanted, either). I must do better next time.

  73. Status: “Absolutely nothing I’ve told him in 2 years of knowing him sank in at all.”

    Rugby “Self exposure what is possible and the work to make it come about in reality.”

    Good example how getting out there or explanations really don’t help unless the person is open to receive…truly accept the reality as theirs.

    I’d could blue face explain to Rugby woo-woo or step wise a way out and he’d still focus in irrelevant shit like lifting weights. It’s not about what these guys do it’s about who they are.

    @ Status Confirmed

    “I must do better next time.”

    You a masochist too?

  74. @Anonymous Reader

    Thank you for the Bartleby story you linked me to. I printed it and enjoyed it a lot. There were few words I did not understand, and that was gratifying as well. Reading some literary English is a good mental exercise (and when you are a non-native speaker you can later sprinkle some of those old-fashioned words here and there for effect 🙂 The guy was obviously an schizoid, I have read over at the subreddit testimonies of people with the disorder who just want to stay still all day long staring into a wall, and similar things. I am not there but some of their patterns do sound very familiar.

    __

    So I finally got back my T analysis, and just as I suspected, I am quite low: 1,27 ng/mL, and the given range for men (probably already reduced as I have read online) is 1,29 to 7,67 ng/mL. The urologist was surprised.

    This explains a lot of things I guess. The moment I read low T was linked to an abnormally negative outlook on life, which has hit me for the last year or so, I knew that might be a problem.

    Since I am skinny-fat raising it is going to be hard. I already don’t drink alcohol, lift, sleep well, have cut sugar… I was given a gel to apply after shower. Let’s see if it works.

  75. Status

    ” I must do better next time.”

    You can’t white knight on his behalf…

    The best thing you could do is snag that girl bang the shit out of her tape it and show him. Bonus points if she is laughing about his feeble exploits on the tape.

    That is what gets through.

  76. Rugby and Status’ 26 year old are encountering “trauma” in real time in situations they happen upon.

    When that momentary trauma in a liminal space passes (esp. Not having a condom), how do they feel about that in two weeks, two months, two years, ten years. Right. Less trauma.

    Next time when dealing with a “traumatic” choice? Don’t feel. Act. As if you know. As if your Red Pill uncle was unemotionally and surreptitiously feeding you instructions outside of your cognitive brain in a secret earpiece. You know the script. You know what he would say.

    Stop thinking negative thoughts. They come? Dhot them down and think of nine other things that are not negative. Or better yet don’t think about it at all…

    Self destruction is not self improvement.

  77. EhIntellect
    “I’d could blue face explain to Rugby woo-woo or step wise a way out and he’d still focus in irrelevant shit like lifting weights. It’s not about what these guys do it’s about who they are.”

    Action not though’s…

    This reads for some outdoor play over internet reading is taking away the process what it is. yeah i get it its all transitional.

  78. Oscar, never mind my comment on the gel – that appears to be a pretty standard delivery mechanism. The article and the link in it are still interesting, although its targeted at an older crowd.

  79. @EhIntellect- I get what you’re saying. I’d like to think I’m not a masochist, but beating my head against a wall certainly doesn’t disprove the idea.
    That said, I think I can find some hook into these guys that gets them interested enough to do some reading and maybe challenge their thinking.

    @Sentient- I like your thinking. I am looking at other job prospects, so when something comes together, high on my To Do list on my way out the door is fuck that girl. Not only because it’s the perfect opportunity to show my buddy where he went wrong and what he missed out on, but because she has a nice rack and that’s my thing.

  80. @Oscar

    I was given a gel to apply after shower. Let’s see if it works.

    Yeah that won’t work.

    Look up on Amazon:
    The Testosterone Optimization Therapy Bible: The Ultimate Guide to Living a Fully Optimized Life

    You need to educate yourself (and inject T).

  81. Rugby

    Look into Dave Gray’s Liminal thinking.

    Then go to YouTube and listen to Alice in Chain’s song No Excuses. Then listen to Man in a Box. Choose one that is the better of the two.

    Then listen to 4Non Blondes What’s up.

    Now how do you feel? Nihilistic or empowered? Which is better. Inhibited and suppressed or emboldened?
    Like someone else should dictated the terms of your engagement or that you are a big boy and maybe you should be in charge here in this liminal threshold where you change and stop your old foundational beliefs?

  82. SJF
    Thank you looking into the book now. Was doing some work on memory placement and EMdr on Monday.

    “NINE PRACTICES

    Nine practices to help you minimize reality distortion, envision possibilities, and create positive change.

    1. Assume that you are not objective. If you’re part of the system you want to change, you’re part of the problem.

    2. Empty your cup. You can’t learn new things without letting go of old things. Stop, look, and listen. Suspend judgment. What’s going on?

    3. Create safe space. If you don’t understand the underlying need, nothing else matters. People will not share their innermost needs unless they feel safe, respected, and accepted for who they are.

    4. Triangulate and validate. Look at situations from as many points of view as possible. Consider the possibility that seemingly different or contradictory beliefs may be valid. If something doesn’t make sense to you, then you’re missing something.

    5. Ask questions, make connections. Try to understand people’s hopes, dreams and frustrations. Explore the social system and make connections to create new opportunities.

    6. Disrupt routines. Many beliefs are embedded in habitual routines that run on autopilot. If a routine is a problem, disrupt the routine to create new possibilities.

    7. Act as-if in the here-and-now. You can test beliefs even if you don’t believe they are true. All you need to do is act as if they were true and see what happens. If you find something that works, do more of it.

    8. Make sense with stories. If you give people facts without a story, they will explain it within their existing belief system. The best way to promote a new or different belief is not with facts, but with a story.

    9. Evolve yourself. If you can be open about how change affects you personally, you have a better chance of achieving your aims. To change the world, you must be willing to change yourself.”

    “SIX PRINCIPLES

    These six principles constitute a theory of beliefs: how they come into being, why they are necessary, how they are reinforced over time, and why people cling to their beliefs, even when they are incomplete, obsolete, or invalid. They are beliefs about beliefs.

    1. Beliefs are models. Beliefs seem like perfect representations of the world, but in fact they are imperfect models for navigating a complex, multidimensional, unknowable reality.

    2. Beliefs are created. Beliefs are constructed hierarchically, using theories and judgments, which are based on selected facts and personal, subjective experiences.

    3. Beliefs create a shared world. Beliefs are the psychological material we use to co-create a shared world, so we can live, work, and do things together. Changing a shared world requires changing its underlying beliefs.

    4. Beliefs create blind spots. Beliefs are tools for thinking and provide rules for action, but they can also create artificial constraints that blind you to valid possibilities.

    5. Beliefs defend themselves. Beliefs are unconsciously defended by a bubble of self-sealing logic, which maintains them even when they are invalid, to protect personal identity and self-worth.

    6. Beliefs are tied to identity. Governing beliefs, which form the basis for other beliefs, are the most difficult to change, because they are tied to personal identity and feelings of self-worth. You can’t change your governing beliefs without changing yourself.”

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/328351524031628/
    https://www.linkedin.com/groups/6550220

  83. @Rugby

    Hey man. You are getting some good advice. As a member of this tribe it would be wise to take it. There does come a time when a man needs to let go of shit. Yes, the bad shit we deliberately hold onto. About 12 years ago I went to a counselor because I didn’t get why I was angry and said shitty things to people when my temper flared. Sometimes it was ugly. The counselor and I dug into some childhood abuse shit. I was like “oh thats why I’m so fucked up.” Meh.
    What the counselor did and so many others do is to encourage you to feel all that shit and explore it. I found there was little to no advice to let that shit go. It’s almost like a perpetual machine in our culture exists to “feel” but not take action to just drop that shit. Like right now. How long do you plan to hold onto past hurts?

    By no means am I suggesting what you experienced wasn’t traumatic. You used the word suicide and if you read my post from yesterday you would understand that word has new meaning for me now. But I can’t let it be a buffer. That would go against my mission. There sure as hell are guys on TRM who have gone through worse childhood shit than me. Perhaps you have. But what purpose does it serve us to compare notes on the trauma? What is the benefit?

    Surely you’ve experienced mental loops of being stuck over and over like an old vinyl album repeating itself. Ask yourself this: Do you like listening to records skip and repeat over and over? Or would you rather hear something new? The amount of mental energy put into self-pity could be used for something else. Right? Something that you like doing. Something cool that makes your heart sing.

    Not so long ago I was on the phone with a fellow tribal member and I had swerved into self-pity and wallowed in my own shit. It was kind of pathetic now that I look back at that day. Finally this fella said to me: “You’re a grown man now, why do you have to hold onto that past stuff?”

    Surprisingly nobody had ever said that to me. Some guys just figure this shit out on their own. After that phone call with this guy I realized I was being a fucking idiot. I had kept those old hurts as a buffer to moving forward.

    During Jordan Peterson’s lecture this past weekend he briefly touched on not casting pearls before swine. At some point people will stop trying to help you if you choose to keep the status quo. If you didn’t want to improve you wouldn’t be on TRM, right? So you’re here, like the rest of us. Let Eh’s comments be a punch in the gut, or cold plate of truth to you. He might seem like a prick, but really isn’t. He’s a great guy IRL and is offering help. You can heal your mind. It isn’t always easy, but if you realize the hurdles aren’t so tall then it will help you cross over them one by one.

    In the next day or so how about if you post something you recently did for yourself that was beneficial for you? Start keeping track of small hurdles you leap over. Just the fact that you’re no longer posting endless streams of YouTube links is a positive step. Once you begin to track the little accomplishments you will see that your cup is being filled with good stuff. But first you have to empty that damn cup filled with darkness and self-pity. Imagine dumping the cup.

    It’s empty.

    Now begin filling it up with things that fulfill your mission.

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