At the end of September last year I gave two talks at the 10th annual 21 Convention in Orlando, Florida. This probably isn’t news to any of my regular readers as it was the only in-person appearance I did last year. My first talk was a familiar one – Hypergamy; Micro to Macro – and was an updated version of the talk I delivered at the Man in Demand Conference in 2015. I’m happy to announce that the video of this dissertation is almost ready to go live on the 21 University site. I should also mention that this video marks the first time I’ve put my real face out in the wild so be gentle.
Before this video is made public I wanted to address some of the more common (and often deliberate) misconceptions about Hypergamy I read floating around Twitter, more than a few Red Pill forums and the blogs of Purple Pill ‘life coaches’ who need to dismiss Hypergamy as a ‘thing’ in order to keep their clientele mired in Blue Pill Disney dreams coming true. Some of these are honest mistakes, and some are just the opinions of guys who only see one side of the Hypergamous equation. A lot of critics think Hypergamy is all there is to Red Pill awareness, and while it’s true that women’s sexual strategies extrapolate a great deal into our social order, there’s a lot more to understanding intersexual dynamics than just wrapping your head around Hypergamy.
I’ve written about Hypergamy for as long as this blog’s existed (I own the google search term) and as new readers become initiated in the Red Pill I can’t expect them to have read every essay describing the ins and outs of Hypergamy. So in the interests of clearing the air and consolidating all of these misunderstandings for everyone benefit – and to refute the disingenuous – I’m going to run down the most common Hypergamous hate I see here.
Hypergamy is a Straightjacket
This is easily the most common misperception I read. Hypergamy is an evolved social dynamic. That is to say it is the behavioral extension of biological factors; most notably Ovulatory Shift. I’ll delve into this in the 21 Convention talk, and I’ve covered this in Your Friend Menstruation, but Hypergamy is a sexual strategy exclusive to women. It is the behavioral manifestation complementary to women’s hormonal and biological realities. Hypergamy at its root level is about the most efficacious, pragmatic, means of women becoming fertile with the best genetic breeding opportunities, and simultaneously pairing in the long term provisioning opportunities available to a woman.
To a strictly deductive, analytical mindset Hypergamy seems a lot like a straightjacket. If you measure up, you’re golden. If you don’t, you’re fucked. This reflex is a binary either / or extreme and as such it paints Hypergamy as something insurmountable and very deterministic. I will admit, I’ve read some Red Pill guys either triumphantly or defeatedly cop to this idea about Hypergamy. What both fail to consider is women’s individual capacity to optimize Hypergamy in relative contrast to their own SMV. I’ve seen low SMV Pickup Artists pull off what to this mindset should be impossible. There is so much more to Hypergamy than just what a man’s looks presents. There are factors and circumstances that can circumvent Hypergamy, and there is nothing deterministic about it. Yes, Hypergamy is often ruthless, but resigning oneself to binary extremes about it gets men nowhere.
Hypergamy is only defined as “marrying upward”
This is a pedantic dismissal of a phenomenon based on semantics. Yes, the original term was developed to describe women’s “tendency to marry upwardly into higher socioeconomic strata” by sociologists, but the term deserves a much broader definition in light of the biological and psychological realities we observe in women today. We could create some new term that would describe the phenomenon, but Hypergamy would describe it in the abstract just as well. Critics resorting to this dismissal only seek to discredit the one proposing an idea based on terminology.
Some women are more Hypergamous than others
This is usually trotted out by the ‘not all women are like that‘ critics, and a lot of these are, of course, women. But there are also the ‘Quality Woman‘ seekers who want to believe that their unicorn woman wouldn’t be as Hypergamous as most slutty skanks on a constant lookout for the bigger and better deal. Hypergamy in this case takes on a aspect of social conditioning and becomes a part of women’s personality.
While it is true that acculturation and learned social practices can be a buffer against Hypergamous excesses in women, it doesn’t lessen or dissolve Hypergamy’s influence in women. Just as men’s sexuality is learned to be reigned in, so too can Hypergamy be learned to be controlled. Needless to say in our post-sexual revolution era Fempowerment has effectively unfettered that buffer for women. Learning Hypergamous restraint is viewed as some male chauvinistic repression of women’s sexuality, but the truth is we are expecting women to self-police their own Hypergamy (with no real instruction). We hope that women will effectively select against their Hypergamous best interest in exercising that control, and today men pay the price for that foolishness.
All women are Hypergamous. Some have learned to curb its excesses, some live in a cultural environment that moderates it for them, but all women are Hypergamous to the same biologically inspired degree. All that changes is the context in which Hypergamy is expressed in women.
Both men and women are Hypergamous
I covered this fallacy in False Equivalencies, but to recap it briefly, Hypergamy is a sexual strategy unique to women. Women have attraction floors for men with whom they will breed and/or settle into pair bonding with. Women only consider an equal to, or better than, arrangement with regard to sexual market value of a man in contrast to (what they perceive as) their own. Men will date and have sex with women who are sometimes 2 to 3 steps below their own SMV. Hypergamy never seeks its own level; women seek an advantage in the mating game, men simply want to reproduce. This is what defines each sex’s imperatives.
Men and women are different in various facets. It is the equalist mindset that presupposes we are the same (or more alike than different) and because of this the False Equivalency argument is always the go-to response to Hypergamy in women. The equalist believes that if women are Hypergamous then men, being equals, must also be as well. Really, this is a retort intended to refocus an unflattering truth about women onto men to even the scales and make men’s pointing out Hypergamy an equal shame. This false equivalency is also used for many other unflattering truths unique to women, so don’t be fooled.
Hypergamy is overemphasized in the manosphere
I see this more and more because as women openly embrace Hypergamy in a public sphere this leads to men becoming more sensitive to their (often ugly) roles in that strategy. There’s a real want to mitigate the importance Hypergamy plays in men’s lives because most men don’t like the idea of being controlled. Which then goes back to the straightjacket notion. Men accept Hypergamy, but they refuse to see it’s larger influence on social and political dynamics. I wrote about this in The Political is Personal. It’s almost impossible not to be accused of being conspiratorial, but in a feminine-primary, gynocentric social order it is women’s interests that define what is ‘correct’ discourse.
We read all the time about how western (millennial) society has become overly PC (politically correct), but I would argue that we are overly female correct. When women are afforded unchecked power their first imperative is controlling men to accommodate the Feminine Imperative. Women’s Hypergamous interests influence and dictate legislation and political discourse. It may not be something most men want to consider. Most guys in the sphere are only focusing on women they know personally, but there is a larger social narrative that is inspired by women optimizing Hypergamy.
Hypergamy only applies to men with the best social / provisioning status
I’ve seen this one-sided perspective promoted by Dr. Jordan Peterson. The idea is that, in women’s natural beneficence, they will only be attracted to the man with the best capacity to provide for her long term security and parental investment. This idea myopically ignores the Alpha Fucks side of the Hypergamous equation. This concept is very complimentary to women and usually guys who limit their definition of Hypergamy to the inherent goodness of women also tend to think of Alpha in terms of men being pro-social, leaders of business and community. This is false on many levels, but it’s very virtue-satisfying for men who believe that they’ll eventually be rewarded by women (quality women of course) who will after time think “nothing’s sexier”. I should also say that this fallacy is very popular for Betas in Waiting.
It’s men who are responsible for Hypergamy
This is a reversal of the origins of Hypergamy, but from a socially constructed perspective. I see a lot of well meaning Red Pill moralist men trot this out as a complement to (again) their hope that women might ever find their virtuousness at all attractive. This fallacy presupposes that men are the real power distributors and the nebulous Patriarchy women complain of is something a majority of men are in someway in control of. It also reverses the origins of male dominance hierarchies. It presumes those hierarchies exist separate from the women who actually perpetuate them with their own Hypergamy and upward sexual selection.
This appeals to men who’ve bought into the ‘Man Up for the Red Pill’ ideology. Women are only as Hypergamous as men allow them to be. While there’s some truth in that in certain cultural contexts, it is women who are deciding for themselves how Hypergamous they wish to be today, and they’ve got the full force of the law and social norms to enforce their choices. While I’m all for men establishing a dominant frame that women naturally want from men, I think it’s unnecessarily self-defeating to believe that women don’t understand how their own sexual strategy works and are responsible for it.
Hypergamy means only 20% of men will ever get laid
Newsflash: Beta men can and do get laid. This is one concern that a lot of critics think is promoting self-defeat in men newly exposed to Red Pill awareness. The concern is that, again, men will become despondent because they’ll classify themselves as one of the 80% of guys who don’t get laid or women would rather not sleep with, because Hypergamy. This theme is actually carried over to a lot of these misconceptions; PUAs and Purple Pill ‘coaches’ alike are concerned that their clients will just give up and go MGTOW because that Rollo guy showed them the ugliest side of Hypergamy and they’re hopeless.
First off, nothing could be further from the truth. Second, this fallacy stupidly (binarily) ignores the individual circumstances of women at the various stages of life. Not all women can get with that guy in the 20th percentile for any number of reasons. Thirdly, the primary edict of this blog and the Red Pill in general is using this information to better a man’s life on a by-man basis. If anything, being exposed to Red Pill truths like Hypergamy should embolden men to become more than they are in a new paradigm based on Red Pill truth rather than Blue Pill false hope – hope that, unfortunately, a lot of Purple Pill coaches are selling.
Hypergamy requires trust on the part of women
No, it really doesn’t. What this premise ignores is the dual nature of Hypergamy, and trust has nothing to do with the sexual urgency a woman feels for a guy who represents a 2-3 level bump in SMV compared to her own while she’s in the proliferative phase of her menstrual cycle. Trust, rapport and comfort are post-orgasm feelings. These are reserved for the Beta Provisioning side of Hypergamy and ones women usually associate with their luteal phase of menstruation. This is why the Betas women trust are the first guys they call to cry to about the guy they fucked who had no trust prerequisite. This fallacy is just stupid, but it does illustrate the Hypergamous process from both sides.
Men should stay ignorant of Hypergamy for their own good
This again goes back to the idea that men (usually Blue Pill Beta men) who know too much about the visceral aspects of Hypergamy will naturally become despondent and go MGTOW or worse, kill themselves in the thinking that they’ll never measure up. If you’re at all familiar with my writing you’ll know that I think the only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance. As I’ve said many times, the truth will set you free, but it doesn’t make it pretty. It also doesn’t absolve a man of the responsibility that comes along with that truth. I get that guys are hopeful that they can find a magic formula that’ll get them their dream girls without much effort. Telling them that’s not gonna work for them makes them hopeless because they still cling to Blue Pill ideals being resolved with Red Pill truths.
This is where guys get the notion of ‘leagues‘ and that they don’t qualify for certain women because they’re out of their league. As I stated earlier a lot of the “keep the guys in the dark” notion is really a misguided way of supposedly helping a guy become something more by keeping him ignorant.
Hypergamy give women an “out” for bad, evil treatment of men
This is a play on the personal responsibility trope. I covered this in Our Sisters’ Keeper. It really comes down to the capacity men believe women have or don’t have with regard to their personal agency. This returns us to the question of women’s Hypoagency:
Hypoagency – the idea that certain individuals (e.g. women) lack agency in their own actions.They lack control. They are not actors … rather, they are acted upon. The corollary to that argument being that they are not responsible for their own actions. Yet the cultural narrative of the omni-empowered, Strong Independent Woman® is completely at odds with exactly women’s hypoagency with regard to rape. They are powerful and purposeful when it serves and entirely unaccountable and blameless when it’s not convenient.
There was a time when the book The Selfish Gene was being bandied around the manosphere and the concern was men might use the premises of the selfish gene to absolve them of cheating on their girlfriends or used as an excuse to pursue one woman after the other. They couldn’t help it, it was written into their DNA. The same argument is now used by (mainly moralist) men who promote the reverse of the idea that men are responsible for Hypergamy. Thus, women being acted upon by a Hypergamy that’s written into their DNA can use it as an excuse for the worst behavior and ugliest results imaginable to men. The logic then follows that women are either active agents and have moral agency or they lack that agency and need men to provide the self-control women are incapable of.
Personally, I believe its a combination of the two; women do have agency for which they should be responsible and accountable for, but also, men need to provide a confident dominant frame under which women want to submit and be associated with. It is not men’s fault that women are Hypergamous, but if there is to be a healthy control of it for the best interests of both men and women, men must understand it and master it. I would say the same of men’s own sexuality and sexual expression – however, we are already overwhelmingly held accountable for not mastering it.
Women aren’t slaves to Hypergamy
This is one more question of women’s agency. Just as hypoagency and the biological element of Hypergamy can be used to socially absolve women of the responsibilities of it, so too can women’s awareness of their own Hypergamy be another way to excuse bad behavior. Again, it’s about personal responsibility. I’ve never stated that women are “slaves” to Hypergamy. I have explored women’s conscious awareness of their behaviors being influenced by their innate Hypergamy. Most women don’t realize they are giving a guy a shit test, it’s part of their limbic subroutines. Most women don’t consciously plan their girls’ night out around the proliferative phase of their menstrual cycle. They largely do, but they don’t realize the coordination. Women aren’t slaves to Hypergamy, but they aren’t immune to its subconscious influence, and this applies to your “good girl”, your trad-con “Red Pill” woman and your “Quality Woman”.
Women are Hypergamous, men are hypogamous
Here we have another attempt to confirm a false equivalency in the hopes that some egalitarian balance might be found between men and women. I’ve heard Purple Pill men trot this one out occasionally: Hypogamy is the idea that men must marry down, or the increasing tendency for women to marry down in the face of men’s socioeconomic status being less than that of women’s. The salient point is that there is no biological element in men that would suggest anything about men opting for hypogamy. This is simply another effort to balance Hypergamy for an egalitarian mindset. I’m not suggesting hypogamy isn’t a thing, just that it’s a sociological phenomenon. Mens biological imperative is unlimited access to unlimited sexuality, and this we can see manifested in their own behavior. Men don’t seek out hypogamous circumstances as a point of their imperative. Sometimes that may be the result, but again this is an extrinsic circumstance not an evolved drive.
Hypergamy should end after marriage
Oh man, wouldn’t that be nice? Actually no, it would put men and women into a state of personal stagnation. While I try never to deal in “should be” I do recognize that there are still guys who still believe that all the anxiety they felt in their dating years should fade to unconditional comfort after they get married. This is false for many reasons, but then there is the extreme reversal of this; “Aww man if I’m not the highest apex Alpha in my wife’s world she’ll cheat on me with him as soon as her proliferative phase comes around.”
Some critics like to overplay this stupid binary to prove that “women are people too” and Hypergamy isn’t even a thing for them once they’ve settled in with a great guy like you. Hypergamy is alway in effect for women by order of degree; marriage is no insulation from the sexual market place, you fool yourself in ever getting comfortable (or vulnerable). Guys who buy into this fallacy are usually equalists who believe their Burden of Performance ended when they said “I do”.
Now, that said, it’s not all gloom and doom. If you’ve established a strong dominant frame prior to marriage Hypergamy actually works in your favor. The same studies that showed women in unsatisfying LTRs or marriages sought out extra-pair sex with more masculine men also showed that women in satisfying relationships were more sexually proceptive (horny) for the men they were paired with when in their prime ovulatory phase.
Hypergamy is only about Alpha Fucks
Another type of critic likes to overplay the importance of looks and Alpha dominance in the Hypergamous equation. I’m of the opinion that looks and confident dominance (bordering on cocky arrogance) stimulates tingles in the most natural visceral way, but that’s not the entirety of the Hypergamous equation. As most PUAs will belabor, looks without congruence in behavior can actually be anti-seductive. Looks will cover a multitude of Game sins, but Game and generating an emotional impact in a woman is always the keystone. There are two sides to Hypergamy, Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks. In today’s world women’s primary focus is on the Alpha Fucks side of the equation, but it doesn’t mean the Beta Bucks provisioning side has been erased.
Hypergamy isn’t so important, you’re overstating things
I get this from Purple Pill guys, PUAs and women – guys who obsess over Hypergamy are reactionary losers. And to them I’ll once again point out the story of Daniella Greene, the FBI translator who left her military husband to marry the very ISIS fighter she’d been tasked to investigate. Watch the video at this link and then think about how many Red Pill truths this story confirms. Think about the far greater scope and importance an understanding of Red Pill intersexual dynamics and how Hypergamy factors into what was an international incident that threatened national security. Are we just going to say “well, bitches be crazy, she must be damaged” or do we see the mechanics behind her actions with a Red Pill Lens? This is only one example of the scope of the importance a developed Red Pill awareness should mean to men.
Look at the significance to which Hypergamy influences everything from divorce laws to child custody to even abortion. Hypergamy is a much larger dynamic than most men really want to digest. It’s not being reactionary to see the forest for the trees here.
You pronounce Hyper-gamee wrong, thus you are uneducated and your information is flawed.
Ok, you got me, disregard everything on this blog then.
Here’s a very interesting online chat i had with an ex last night, with her hamster eventually spinning out of control once i mentioned “feminism”. I often rejected her for sex when we were hanging out (just wasn’t attracted enough unless drunk) even though she had a hot body for a mid-40’s mother and was good in bed. She just lucked out in the looks department, even though she’s mostly cool with a good sense of humour. She often pops up online in the evening to chat, which is a bit of a distraction for me being out here alone… Read more »
I haven’t seen the edit yet. The Disney killer drones got the YT upload when it only had 9 views. When I get a chance I’ll poke around the Usual Alternative Suspects and see if it turns up.
Just watched the JP interview — or was it an interrogation? I’ve done hundreds and hundreds of interviews and would be fired — should be fired — if I conducted one like that. Your role is to keep the subject succinct and on topic, not debate him. How does the viewer benefit if the guest can barely complete a thought, much less put that thought in any kind of context? How could she sit down and write an article based on that interview when it’s just her her her and it’s not fair it’s not fair its not fair. That’s… Read more »
“I’ve written about Hypergamy for as long as this blog’s existed (I own the google search term)”
this is the spot. now is the time.
if you can’t help but crack a sly shit eating grin every time you think of the sacred word, hypergamy, you are way the fuck behind….
and soon a big ass foot is going to stop down on you from above
Peterson is kind of frustrating for me. He’s one of these guys like Steven Pinker or Warren Farrell who have all this Red Pill awareness on the table in front of them, they explain it in easy to understand terms, they know the reasons for it, but yet they just can’t let go of their Blue Pill ideals because to do so would mean they’d have to abandon the ego-investments they need to exist. I see what Peterson is doing and I understand the reasons for his shift. He knows he’s going to be fired and lose his tenure in… Read more »
I got three young girls I’m working with pregnant to either a brother, dad or cousin..
You: Only three? I thought it was 300 thousand. Men are such bastards.
Then she goes: Yeah, they are, but not all men.
Then you say, “yeah, you know those three women and not the 299 thousand you don’t see who aren’t being raped as children by men. But, obviously, those three have made a major impact on you and that’s Ok.”
How much for tickets to Triggerland?
She’s wanting the D, all that abuse chatter, pining for her lost Alpha, not really hating on him, more self critical “How young and naive, I was!” Girls are cute that way.
“That’s so narcissistic.. ”
No better compliment.
I think Peterson gets frustrated with himself for the same reason, which has got to be damned uncomfortable.
January 17, 2018 at 6:03 pm
The LTRs attitude was “Unicorn (alpha) or nothing”. She got what she wanted. It happens.
Her strategy was to out compete the others. She is very proud of that.
For me at the time she was just a part of my rotation. Her virtue was that she never fully let go of me (she did once – she didn’t make that mistake twice).
“I think Peterson gets frustrated with himself for the same reason, which has got to be damned uncomfortable.” Just enjoy the benefits you gets (sic) from him. He may be uncomfortable at times (as seen on video) but I judge he’s damn sure satisfied with himself. (I’ve been there and done that.) Sometimes conscientious righteous guys can generate lots of stuff when they are frustrated to find out more truths. (I know I did.) What I get from him is just psychological knowledge of behaviorism. I don’t have friends going down on the front lines from Blue Pill bullets (because… Read more »
O.B.I.T. How does the viewer benefit if the guest can barely complete a thought, much less put that thought in any kind of context? It’s obvious. The viewer is saved from experiencing too much bad-thinking that might cause them to question the standard narrative. The viewer is free to experience emotion with no thought. See Orwell’s book “1984” where Winston Smith’s job at the MInistry of Truth consists of rewriting history and burning old pictures & documents by dropping them “down the memory hole”. That’s the funciton of modern journolism, and it has been that way for 30 or more… Read more »
@SSF in Oz
You put up with all that hamsterbation without drinking? Did you at least charge her for the therapy session?
@ASDgamer I read your comment about not banging girls for whatever reason and it resonated with me. When I was in high school to early 20s, I had such a mental block that prevented me from sleeping with girls who were seemingly throwing themselves at me. These girls weren’t models, but anywhere between 6-8. Don’t get me wrong, I wanted to bang these girls like they were a bad habit. But my conditioning prevented me from seeing it through. I took the nice guy route and it still kinda kills me to this day. My N count would easily be… Read more »
“It doesn’t really bother me that much now, but from time to time I’ll look back on it and think what the hell was wrong with me?”
Even in my blue pill conditioning i had ample option’s still do… I used Jesus as a moral framework for all relationship aspect’s.
Blax pt 2
Blax pt 4 off to rest…
Rollo Tomassi- Rule Number 7
Maybe i should go for this? Still cut a fine figure on the beach and have the talent, originality & irreverence to rock it. Though i don’t know if i “celebrate maturity”, gentlemen… “Search for a Silver Fox has just released a promotional video for their new television show. They are looking for “confident”, “irreverent”, “charismatic” people over 45 for a new show that “celebrates maturity”. The video features attractive folk talking about becoming a model in their fifties. Both men and women proudly claim the Silver Fox moniker and are shown laughing as they participate in a beach-wear photo… Read more »
But here’s the female writer Jane Gilmour’s hamster spinning in wild delusions…
“Ageism is a genuine problem and disproportionately affects women. The effects kick in for people as young as 45 and they are profound. It’s not just about social disadvantage. They impact on older women’s ability to find work, get promoted and retire with some financial stability. Changing the stereotypes that contribute to that disadvantage is vital to making older women economically stable and therefore safe…”
Pandemic disables billions of men. Strong independent women who don’t need no man most affected.
@AR and others “That is not even close to what “jumped the shark” means.” You are absolutely right. My ignorance on that one. Thought it meant to breaking out of a smaller pond into a bigger one, sort of thing. Well, as they say, “I’m here to learn.” So thanks. @SJF Just giving you a shout out for your posts. Often gleaning something from them. I’m a serious ENTP and my best foil when discussing MRP material is a good friend INTJ. It’s a good match to discuss these things. Great that he is kicking ass in his marriage, yet… Read more »
“Male outcome is so volatile and variable, it made sense for cultures to make sure boys were steered correctly. Nowadays, the steering is toward the feminine. Getting back to a sort of benevolent dominance hierarchy would make sense. Yet if there is no reward for that in society, you have men that can do all sorts of things. No unifying narrative to guide us.”
Rollo tweeted recently re: Bigfoot Porn. Inherent cultural schizophrenic reactions aside, this increase in chick porn isn’t a sign of women’s sexual liberation, rather a decrease in women’s real sexual options. There aren’t enough Alphas to go around…and never will be…and the culture’s solution to that? Beastialty porn fantasies for her. That’s feminism progress? Rutting with simians? What’s the difference between men porn buffering and women’s? Essentially none. It’s a indication of unilaterally contracting one’s own options. At least guys allow themselves a large share of the SMV to choose from. This isn’t a gender war thing. It’s not women… Read more »
Thank you Rugby.
Good for Joel Embiid.
Joel went after Rihanna in a semi public manner and she made him pay for it with a burn. Now Joel is heading for all-star status and it seems he’s learned a valuable lesson about frame.
Oh since it’s Friday…
As women’s sexual options are contracting (I don’t consider mommy porn a valuable long term option) and the SMP is a fixed-pie marketplace…someone’s pie slice grows. Is yours?
Cue Sentient’s “Flip the switch!”
EhIntellect There aren’t enough Alphas to go around…and never will be…and the culture’s solution to that? Beastialty porn fantasies for her. Is Bigfoot porn all that different from werewolf / vampire / werebear / shapechanger porn? That stuff is all over Goodreads and Amazon Kindle, along with other stuff. The tamer version featuring Lord Rod or some hunky millionare handyman are found at the chain bookstore. All of them fill the same basic niche… At least guys allow themselves a large share of the SMV to choose from. Men have a wider range of attraction triggers than women do. Evo-psych… Read more »
Women are being herded into “Accept no less than Alpha mindset” to their disappointment.
That’s the default mode. They have to be herded into something else.
“It’s a market responding to demand.” Where does this demand originate…was my point. Are women getting what they need? No. Feminism is failing and now it offers bread provisioning and circus porn as appeasement. Women aren’t actively choosing porn over actual satisfying sex. “Limits are taught / imposed from outside. ” Exactly. The limits imposed are: Only Alpha sex suffices, porn is a sufficient substitute while they wait. They’re buying it when no other option is offered. Women must be blind to their options for the canard to continue. Alphas always do the choosing. I call bullshit on the impending… Read more »
One baby mama, three non-cohabiting baby daddies, with a swarm of beta orbiters and cloud of faceless beta drones picking up the tab is the current de facto norm in some American communities.
EhIntellect Where does this demand originate…was my point. To be all 1950’s Science Fictiony: the demand originate in Monsters from the Id! Are women getting what they need? No. What do women want? “More”. More fried ice, more alpha cock carousel with a side of beta provider or not, more exciting thrill rides…doesn’t mean men are obliged to provide all that, though. Feminism is failing and now it offers bread provisioning and circus porn as appeasement. That’s ideological thinking. It’s “dog thinkging” as Sentient would put it. “Feminism” is just the current (for the last 200 or so years) version… Read more »
One baby mama, three non-cohabiting baby daddies, with a swarm of beta orbiters and cloud of faceless beta drones picking up the tab is the current de facto norm in some American communities.
This probably isn’t what was meant by “polyandry”, though it is real enough. It won’t sell above the blue collar level. Well, I don’t think it will. Could be wrong.
“This probably isn’t what was meant by “polyandry””
Not in Dogland, no.
“It won’t sell above the blue collar level.”
The aristocracy also have different interests and thus play by different rules.
“Your wife has internal limits”
I was talking about men. Social forces are coerce certain men to sabotage their sexual priorities, other men, steeped in the exact same cultural experience, retain their priorities. Why?
Evo-psych accounts for much human behavior but not all. Same goes for women. They’re knuckling under to cultural expectations too.
“Your wife has internal limits that she learned years ago.”
My wife is a special flower, yes…lol.
“One baby mama, three non-cohabiting baby daddies” “This probably isn’t what was meant by “polyandry”
That’s Alpha polyandry. it’s not exactly what “you can have it all ” feminism is selling, but oh well.
Hmmm… @Rollo – “Peterson is kind of frustrating for me. He’s one of these guys like Steven Pinker or Warren Farrell who have all this Red Pill awareness on the table in front of them, they explain it in easy to understand terms, they know the reasons for it, but yet they just can’t let go of their Blue Pill ideals because to do so would mean they’d have to abandon the ego-investments they need to exist.” Agree? Well yes in some context yes…. but… However, and some will not like what I have to say as usual. I say… Read more »
The sales brochure is not the service manual.
You may also be working from a dog’s eye view of what “all” is.
It’s a trick! You can only escape from the matrix into another matrix.
Totally. I do my share of getting out there and mingling with 20’s girls. They tend to act the same as girls did in the ye olden times. Hey, kfg, you admitted to hanging out more with that younger crowd…you think they’re all that different? They may talk feminist-y, but it’s gossamer thin. Perhaps it’s for the most part guys who are different and girls reacting differently to the change in softer men. All in all, girls haven’t changed much to guys who approach with solid frame, is what I’m saying. Saying women have changed into something unwieldy is buffering… Read more »
“What if “men” just cannot get off their asses and do anything with themselves other than this shit?”
When’s your last FR?
The aristocracy also have different interests and thus play by different rules.
Yeah, but even now they tend to at least keep up appearances. The den mother to beta orbiters is not a good look. I’m not buying “polyandry” as suggested upthread.
” . . . girls haven’t changed much to guys who approach with solid frame, is what I’m saying.”
How do you think the baby mama got three baby daddies?
EhIntellect – What the fuck is “FR”? Speak English! Good grief. Did you mean “For Real”? Does that mean “you’re in the know”? “Far out man” Maybe you’re a “real live Herbert”…
Lost Patrol….you got it. Rationality cannot be measured with a line. It is on a circle. This is why there is a fine line between genius and insanity. Crazy but that’s how it goes…Crazy Train.
We’ve all been over this shit so many times before…..
“EhIntellect – What the fuck is “FR”?”
No snark here…field report.
You might not believe it, but I’m not a cynical guy and want the best for you too.
Cool new term. What’s Herbert? I’ll use it if it’s means what I think it does.
EhIntellect “Your wife has internal limits” I was talking about men. You were talking about girls and porn and sex before. Why the subject change? Social forces are coerce certain men to sabotage their sexual priorities, other men, steeped in the exact same cultural experience, retain their priorities. Why? Different reference experiences, different subculures, diffrent etc. Evo-psych accounts for much human behavior but not all. Same goes for women. They’re knuckling under to cultural expectations too. Actually women have largely been set free from all cultural expectations. That’s implied by the word “Feral”. “Your wife has internal limits that she… Read more »
EhIntellect encapsulates TRM.
Saying women have changed into something unwieldy is buffering for guys who prefer not to do some, frankly, basic personal work.
1. Gain knowledge, it’s right here. Don’t stay ignorant.
2. Become a more effective man. Anyone can do it with respect to where they are right now.
What if “men” just cannot get off their asses and do anything with themselves other than this shit?
Have you ever tried standing in a dark room, flicking the light on and off while staring at your own eyes in a mirror? Just asking.
“Could you sum up the point that you are trying to make now, in a couple of sentences?”
I had a three martini lunch. Thanks for playing along.
Ah yes, the old, “Can you walk on water? No? Then stand still so I can shoot you! No? Wahhh you aren’t playing fair!!!” argument.
You don’t measure rationality with lines(Because you need more sophisticated instruments long WITH lines). But everything has boundaries(Which we test each day like you are right now).
Rollo never said the Red Pill would remove all boundaries.
Some people don’t have a dog in the race.
To put it in your way, if THIS “matrix” offends you, go find a “matrix” that is to your liking.
Or, you know. Build one.
I call bullshit on the impending polyandry too as, in spite of ASD claiming Alphas will happily double up on a woman When did I say that alphas would commit to a woman? The SMP is a free for all, with women doing it with multiple men. One guy hits her up for a hookup, she says Ok, he flakes so she goes to her rolodeck for the next guy or she gets a better and offer flakes on the first guy. Her rolodeck is full of alphas. Girls aren’t necessarily branch swinging from one LTR to the next. Lots… Read more »
EhIntellect – What the fuck is “FR”?”
No snark here…field report.
Shows you how long it’s been since he’s written one.
Work to make yourself better, whatever your starting point, your SMV, your N-count
You’ve got a better chance to be a winner
Here are my favorite 60-year-old DPA guys …
Considering solutions…cannot wait to read the white knight, blue pill, and cowardly responses to this. Yollo Comanche do your best. In the case of Aziz Ansari, all testimonies confirm he did nothing wrong. When she expressed that she wanted to stop, he stopped. He suggested they watch TV. Her behavior is the least concern, however. It is what the media, the culture and the legal establishment are doing that is the dangerous issue. Given the ostensibly presented standards, he logically should be EXALTED by everyone especially her and feminists for his actions (stopping when she indicated she didn’t want to… Read more »
@ palma “well you were baiting her lol…” Yes, i was. I love to tease and wind her up. But as we all know, big girls also love to have their pigtails pulled by bad boys. The funny thing is, when i was fucking her i used to practice all the game advice from here, and she jumped thru the hoops like a circus dog. Backflips, frontflips, begging… So i would keep pushing and pushing and she would be calling me an arsehole etc, then would drag me upstairs, put her daughter’s school dress on, and demand that Daddy fuck… Read more »
Good stuff SSF. I only have one small correction to make, because I’m a big advocate of men having a deeper understanding of some things and not to look for ” bad intentions ” in female behavior as the Go-To explanation. “… Expect that we will serve them because they have a pussy. ” Sure, some of the coldest hearted ho’s think along these lines, but remember that it’s men, and to some extent society at large, that teach/show women that ” pussy ” gets shit done. Subtle distinction, but an important one I believe. Women are not born knowing… Read more »
@ Not Born This Morning Great post. What amazes me is that those two skanks would parade their very average, pudgy bodies in public like that?? They are 2 very unattractive females who would do much better to wear much less revealing clothing. I know you can’t polish a turd, but you can at least try. This is what feminism has delivered us, amongst so much bad shit. Hos have little taste and even less style these days it seems… For sure, if you walk around in public like this, not only should you be shamed (and i ain’t no… Read more »
@ Blaximus Cheers for the positive feedback, my man. Very astute analysis of things as always. One good thing about getting older is the drop in libido i’ve noticed. Of course, when i see an attractive woman i’ll always check it out, but i’m not as driven to try and pick her up as i was when i was younger, though i might have to turn this around. In the fruit store yesterday in my hick local town where i’m friendly with the owners, this very attractive young woman was in the store when i rocked in. I clocked that… Read more »
“Never judge someone poorly for mispronouncing a word- it means they learned it reading.
So sorry my man….we were talking past each other a bit. Lol.
To do a threesome; menage-a-trois; 3P
“Good stuff SSF.” Cosign and elevate to great stuff. I can tell y’all that spraying blackberries by hand 400 litres at a time (3.5 hours) in the hot Aussie summer is a fucker of a job, but one that has to be done. Of course, there’s no pay in it, except the fact of cleaning up my 40 acres, so i focus on doing what i have to do. It’s like cutting firewood. You wanna be warm, you gotta cut and collect the wood. Good, honest work that does strengthen one’s resolve and lift the spirit when put into perspective.… Read more »
“Practically, the world hasn’t changed much for guys willing to deal with their shortcomings before bending the world to them. Results can be had.”
Very true indeed…
@ SJF Very eloquently written, my friend. I appreciate your unambiguous reflections and i agree. I am moving into acceptance (which is always key on the spiritual & physical journey) and do have a love for her and what we shared. Just time to let go moving forward, which i am doing daily… Just got a mate in for a guitar jam to learn some tunes for a gig which was good inspiring man cave time. It’s important we men connect beyond just commenting, so thanks for taking the time. There are many good conversations here. You’re all keeping it… Read more »
January 19, 2018 at 6:00 pm
A comment I left at
You will excuse me, but the entertainment business has been like this FOREVER. Anyone who didn’t know how it works was willfully blind.
Parents used to warn their kids.
Carrie Fisher explained how it worked in two or three minutes at an award show (a comedy roast).
I had a three martini lunch.
All that gin or vodka in the middle of the day can’t be good for you. Nope. Just not good.
I suggest you switch to Old Fashioneds. What could be dangerous about an Old Fashioned?
@The Solitary Silver FoX I went through some anxious times and came out non-anxious in the end the last twelve years. (Had the farm since 2007, late November.) At first, I was furtive. I had to do the fucking best at learning deer habitat. I strived and my my striving got me far with good stuff and great red pill and blue pill friends. Guys doing guy stuff–deer hunting habitat stuff. I went through a Jack Donovan phase going on five years ago when my son fucked up and I had to get up to speed on being an Alpha… Read more »
In the case of Aziz Ansari, all testimonies confirm he did nothing wrong.
In dog logic. In catworld he provided bad sex; failure of Enthused Consent.
What’s with all the butthurt? Where did that come from?
“The frame thing.. if you don’t get in her head she’ll get in yours and then my friend you’re fucked.”
Should be framed in bronze and hung high for all our brothers to see…
“Life is short and bitchez is tough, boys. Take no prisoners. Self respect must always come first. It’s also the only way they’ll respect you, behave and not bounce…
All is fair in love and war, gentlemen…”
Great stuff man. Thanks for sharing. As @ton has said many times, “Butch the fuck up.”
Happy Pussyhat March II Day to one and all! Let the wimmens march all they want, we men will be out ice-fishing, rock-climbing, slack-lining, squat-thrusting and, uhhh, well I do plan some hearty dog-walking and stout-swilling.
Australia was my best vacation ever, and I’d advise any man to make a trip there a project to plan and make sure you do. I know I plan to get back one day.
Co-sign on the deer hunting or any fishing and hunting actually. Doing man shit outdoors even with beta friends is good for a mans soul.
“Doing man shit outdoors even with beta friends is good for a mans soul.”
I try to only associate with red pill friends and I cultivate them. My soul is relaxed and is free from constraint. I do not want or hope, I intend.
And the blue pill friends I have are not unhappy and unlucky.
So much RP truth amongst the hamster droppings… Lol.
“So much RP truth amongst the hamster droppings… Lol.”
A few shit tests were delivered.
And Stormy had a pair of balls on her.
Had her boyfriend drop her off.
And had a baby all the way down.
From True Detective TV series 2014 Detective Ani Bezzerides: Maybe, and this is just a thought, maybe you were put on this earth for more than fucking. Vera Machiado: Everything is fucking. ___________ Detective Marty Hart: Do you wonder ever if you’re a bad man? Detective Rust Cohle: No. I don’t wonder, Marty. World needs bad men. We keep the other bad men from the door. _________________ Detective Ray Velcoro: Pain is inexhaustible. It’s only people that get exhausted. ______________________ Detective Ray Velcoro: Sometimes a good beating provokes personal growth. ______________________________ Detective Rust Cohle (eternal pessimist): [looking at the night… Read more »
“Life’s barely long enough to get good at one thing. So be careful what you get good at.”
That’s a pretty good corollary to the Chaucer.
“World needs bad men. We keep the other bad men from the door.”
A villain is just a hero fighting for the other side.
The idea of hero as a Good Guy is something that came out of old school romance novels and Superman comics. The people who invented the word had no such conception of it. The labors of Heracles that were the foundational acts of his heroism weren’t performed as altruistic service. The were the punishment for having murdered his wife and children.
Chics dig Heroes, not Good Guys(tm).
See War Brides.
“That’s a pretty good corollary to the Chaucer.”
The original quote, which I have posted here recently in both it’s original and modern forms:
“The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne”
“Happy Pussyhat March II Day to one and all!”
Heracles – the 13th Labor. In all things, burden.
A scene from the Alpha Farms of 2035…
This old porch is a big old red and white Herford bull
Standing under a mesquite tree out in Agua Dulce
He keep’s on playing hide and seek with that hot August sun
He’s sweating and a panting ’cause his work is never done
I’ve know a whole lot of bulls in my time, and there work is never done.
– R. Earl Keen, poet
Stormy Daniels ( Stephanie Clifford .. Lol, fuck her porn name illusion ) is a textbook basic example of hypergamy in action. Her perception of Trump as alpha wealthy guy was the driver in the sexual encounters between the pair. Trump though, if these descriptions are accurate, comes off as anything but alpha. He’s just a guy with money and fame banging chicks. Paying compliments and ” chasing ” a woman who has sex for a living, well… Not alpha imo. But what’s really sad is paying any skirt 6 figures for her silence. Don’t pay hoes. Wtf? This also… Read more »
January 20, 2018 at 9:24 am
“A hell of a price to pay for being stylish.”
The LTR was asking if I had heard anything about the Women’s March.
I mentioned the possibility of pussy hats. Her reply:
“That is so stupid. It is like men wearing dick hats.”
I had to agree. The message? “Deep down I’m just a cunt.” AWALT. LOL.
The TL;DW version:
The hamsters were working overtime.
In today’s Guardian. Don’t read on a weak stomach.
Anybody know anyone personally that’s in a polyamoric(?) relationship?
We wonder why ” things ” are going to shit, but ” things ” actually aren’t as bad as shit like that guardian article make it out to be.
I want numbers.
I can find enough cannibals to write and article every month for years, but cannibalism isn’t a ” thing “. I get media trying to be cutting edge and reporting shit that gains eyeballs, but they are a huge part of the problem. Sensationalizing and trying to normalize stupid shit outliers are doing.
Mind your Mind.
So, there we have it. Betas will mow the lawn, take out the trash, provide resources and watch the kids while “his” girl who had to muster all her mental fortitude to starfish for him without throwing up goes out and gets gang rammed at a bondage club.
Get him to take an apartment without withdrawing any of the above while supplementing with Beta derived “government” cash and prizes and The Plan is complete.