Surrender

Most of my readers are aware of my stand on the myth of male vulnerability. Weakness is not strength, but the Village of the Feminine Imperative, would have us believe that the more a man displays honest signs of vulnerability the more endearing he’ll be to women. The Blue Pill conditions men to believe that crying, or being more emotionally sensitive, or really anything that makes him identify with the feminine in his personal character is a form of this endearing vulnerability that women can (by appealing to equalist reason) be expected to respect in a man. While adopting this mindset may open a man up to ridicule (and unspoken disgust on the part of women), this is not true vulnerability. The Village might try to convince a man he’s being brave by avoiding conventional masculinity, but this emasculating vulnerability is nothing compared to what a man has to lose from real vulnerability.

What I think most men, certainly all Blue Pill men, miss is that the ultimate form of vulnerability a man can engage in is ‘catching feelings’ for, or emotionally investing himself in, any particular woman. And this is especially so if that man’s Blue Pill conditioning makes him oblivious to the risks of that vulnerability.

Nothing leaves a man more vulnerable in life, love, family, career, finances and really power over the direction of his life than to invest himself in a woman. The very act, the very thought, of surrendering his life’s imperative to the trust that a woman wont exercise the unimaginable control and potential for damage she has in his life is a vulnerability no woman will ever recognize or acknowledge; nor will the sacrifices that come from this vulnerability ever be something she has a capacity to appreciate.

Even in the best case scenarios, where a man’s investment is reciprocated, or a somewhat idyllic relationship grows between a man and a woman, such is the state of our modern sexual marketplace that a potential for a man’s ruin still colors that relationship. Our feminine-primary social order has, through legislation and social pretense, made the proposition of any man navigating the sexual marketplace one of inherent vulnerability. Women rarely understand the vulnerability a man is opening himself up to because our social order makes that potential for his harm invisible to her. In fact, if he resists opening himself up to potential ruin he’s considered to be insecure, and this in turn is attributed to his maleness.

I have no doubt there will be women reading this last paragraph and think, “Well, women are putting themselves at risk too, we have to be vulnerable too.” No, you really don’t. Since the beginning of the Sexual Revolution every potential aspect of vulnerability for women in the SMP has been meticulously compensated for, or insured against the worst. Whether that’s the grossly female-weighted divorce and custody laws, or legal abortion, or arbitrary consent laws that only serve women, or the special dispensation for women academically or vocationally, any and all vulnerability risk is mitigated for you. The emotional vulnerability you believe is so costly pales in comparison to the risk and consequences that vulnerability represents to men. Men commonly have more to risk, more to lose and invest more of themselves into that risk proposition.

True vulnerability, the kind that opens you up to life-destroying consequences, is when a man’s idealism for women, despite knowing all the very likely, very destructive, consequences is something he willfully ignores. For a Blue Pill man, his vulnerability is rarely ever recognized. Thanks to his life-long preconditioning he believes in a romanticism that insulates him from ever acknowledging the risks and the all-downside potential of that vulnerability. This obliviousness – keeping a Beta-in Waiting blind – is a primary goal of Blue Pill conditioning.

Idealizing Surrender

Women would rather be objectified than idealized. The reason for this really gets back to evolved gender differences; women want a man who other men want to be and other women want to fuck. In other words, women want to be the object of desire of a worthy man. When a man surrenders himself to the primacy of the feminine, when he makes a woman his mental point of origin, when he alters the course of his life to accommodate her, that’s when he ceases to be someone for whom she’ll willingly submit to. When she becomes his center he knowingly surrenders Frame.

It is, however, the innate idealism that predisposes men to outward thinking, to the belief in what could be realized, that also predisposes them to idolizing women on whole and idolizing a woman at once. A man’s idealism makes a lot of things possible for him, but it also puts him at terrible risk with regard to being truly vulnerable. Furthermore, men’s fundamental romantic nature is also attributed to our innate what-is-possible idealism. The Feminine Imperative has used this idealism to its benefit for millennia, but the most common (seemingly sensible) utility of it results in men’s surrender of self to the feminine.

When we read through the romantic poetry of the ages – almost all of it written by men – the most common reoccurring theme is that of a helpless ‘surrender’ to the love a man bears for a woman. From Ovid to Shakespeare to Byron the dialog and sentiment is the same; that of the inherent ‘correctness’ of a man surrendering his soul to the love – requited or not – of a woman. If there is a psychological root to the disorder of ONEitis it can be found in this poetic idealism.

However, there is nothing that makes a man more vulnerable to a woman, to the feminine, than his idealist’s nature. The Feminine Imperative knows this thumbscrew of men. One hallmark of the conditioned Beta mind is an eagerness to put themselves into a state of surrender to the feminine. I go into this a bit in Pre-Whipped:

These are the men I call pre-whipped; men so thoroughly conditioned, men who’ve so internalized that conditioning, that they mentally prepare themselves for total surrender to the Feminine Imperative, that they already make the perfect Beta provider before they even meet the woman to whom they’ll make their sacrifice.

But what should predispose men to so eagerly want this surrender? Certainly there’s an element of a (false) belief in the possibility of a mutual concept of love between that man and a (potential) woman. It’s what he believes should be possible.

What else? There’s the pre-conditioned belief that this surrender is his masculine duty. Countless Blue Pill pastors make a living belaboring the narrative that men can’t be Men until they mold themselves over the course of a lifetime to be a (once convenient) a woman’s ideal. Literally, manhood is denied to him until he surrenders to the feminine.

The Family Alpha made this observation last week:

Many men have given the power over their inner self entirely to the women of their lives.

While I completely agree, what I’m wondering is why this need to surrender self is an intrinsic aspect in men? The majority of men (80% Betas) are pre-whipped to expect a need to surrender to the women in their lives. Their abdication is so matter of fact that it becomes something subconscious for them.

Is this a characteristic that separates Betas from Alphas? I’d like to think so, but then a distinction needs to be made between being a Strong Independent Alpha who lives up to a positive, pro-social, conventionally masculine role (despite a world arrayed against it) and the same who, though still respectively Alpha, surrenders his sense of self to the woman he idolizes.

SFC Ton had a great comment about this surrender:

“Women do not really have more power……The first step is to realize that this is indeed the case. Men cede power. Men are taught to cede power. Men look for opportunities to cede power. Women just take advantage of men’s largess. A man does not have to be full on Alpha to get this, or to use it to his best advantage in life.”

One thing to consider is how much power have men ceded and to what effect. The surrender is real, both individually and socially. Reclaiming the power ceded in that surrender will be fought in many different scopes. In The Family Alpha’s article, the concern is two fold: the ceding of a man’s inner self, the surrender of identity to the approval of the feminine, and what the consequences are for men once they reclaim or recreate an identity apart from what he allowed the feminine to create for him.

This a significant thing to ponder for men. One reason I believe men become so despondent, so nihilistic, after some trauma that shook them into Red Pill awareness is that their identity, their sense of self, was a result of this ceding of power to women. They literally do not know what to make of themselves once they are cut free from that paradigm, but moreover they must confront the fact that who they are now (at the time of their unplugging) is, in large part, due to that self-surrender. Prior to their unplugging this surrender may have been involuntary for them, but still perhaps not. Their vulnerability and the true potential of permanent damage from it is put out in the open for them and others to realize.

It’s easy to think of men having difficulty getting over their Exes as in some way damaged. Family Alpha’s point was to encourage men to get back on the horse and back in the game and be competitive again, and that’s what I believe is most beneficial for these men. I also believe that it does men no service to prolong feeling sorry for themselves, but again, that’s part of the process of recreating a man. The risk then becomes a sort of new surrender wherein men drop out and isolate themselves aways from the system that held them and caused them to believe in, and then confront the consequences of their first vulnerability and surrender to the feminine. Isolation becomes their new form of surrender.

However, it’s also important that they recognize the potential for damage that surrendering, that ceding power, to the feminine represents to them. Red Pill aware men should acknowledge that their real vulnerability will be implied in any relationship they enter into beyond a perfunctory pump & dump. That knowledge should be a source of power that prevents them from overextending themselves once again into surrender to the feminine. They are aware now and that awareness now implies a responsibility to it. It demands that they keep their heads out of the sand and make calculated risks according to that awareness.

Your new Red Pill self has no more excuses of ignorance – your life’s been handed back to you with the full knowledge of the system you’re a part of.

No surrender.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Oscar C.
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@dr. zipper

Thank you for your advice. And sorry if I unduly hijacked this thread with my rants.

Oscar C.
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@culum

Just finished reading your advice for online dating over at “Field Reports”. Thank you for explaining things with such detail.

Obviously I know now why I failed: lack of sexual vibe. I think this has always been my main problem. As far as I can remember, I did never hyperventilate when talking to women, but I am very earnest and not prone to joking or teasing. I also tended to dress like a much older man, favouring black polos and monocolor garments in general, which further desexualizes. Very plain looking overall.

theasdgamer
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@Oscar

IMO the main advantage of intellectual interests is that they can be used as a buffer against ONEitis and the fear of loneliness.

Intellectual interests can be used as a buffer against physical self-improvement…boxing, fencing, bullfighting, lifting weights, swimming, running…active interests are needed

theasdgamer
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@Oscar C Obviously I know now why I failed: lack of sexual vibe. I think this has always been my main problem. As far as I can remember, I did never hyperventilate when talking to women, but I am very earnest and not prone to joking or teasing. Focus on being fun and playful, especially when chatting with women…develop a party personality…someone who gets invited to parties. Develop a repertoire of about 5 jokes, to begin with, that include double-entendres, and go chat up women at bars….remember the maxim that it’s better to leave while you’ll still be missed…if you… Read more »

SFC Ton
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The picture is bad ass but that was a Blax quote

Credit should be given where it’s due and since when have I written that many sentences without saying cuck, shit, cuck, etc?

SFC Ton
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Ps, fuck introspection. Its mostly a watse od time. Grab your balls, a 5th of Wild Turkey, light up big as Man o War cigar and go fuck shit up and make the world your bitch

dr zipper
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Ton, introspection only seems like a waste of time because you’re not confused

grabbing my balls and a fifth of whiskey is what I have to do after my introspection

SJB
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@Rollo: I figured a “match made in heaven” is really fiery hell–sulphuric fumes and everything. Then I wondered what mindset would think of and then create such a piece.

thedeti
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@Rollo:

I confess I don’t “get” the header photo. I don’t “just get it”.

Mineter
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I don’t know about the header picture, Rollo. I don’t have a great grip on art. Please explain it. Personally, I immediately saw myself as that match slightly standing apart, with my family represented by the others. All are burnt. Perhaps I see what my mind wants me to see.

Maybe the picture of the boot forever stomping on the face (throat?) of humanity as described in Orwell’s “Nineteen Eighty-four” would have been more apt.

dr zipper
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it’s men, burnt out, used up; surrendered all their value and now left with nothing

….or, these burnt out men are like a phoenix, ready to arise again from the ashes of BP damnation

…or, some high schooler’s art class project in which it had to be a multimedia piece and was so mesmerized by his little matchstick buddies that helped him light the bong bowl and then BAM!!
inspiration

hey, good art is what you make of it

SJF
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All that talk about mentoring earlier, I had adapted a comment from some notes in JulienRSD’s Shift product to give some advice from my own experience on how to get a mentor. It’s logically deductive to think that if you are in a incompetent phase of mastery, well you just might fuck up your chance when a mentor crosses paths with you. I came across some mentors when I was in a competent phase of mastery in a certain endeavor and didn’t screw up that chance. It was the beginning of a beautiful friendship. Here was that comment @January 20,… Read more »

theasdgamer
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I could only think of Browning’s poem, “Meeting at Night”

the quick sharp scratch
And blue spurt of a lighted match,

the betas have lost their ability to be lit…they’re burned out…sacrificed and surrendered

theasdgamer
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@Ton

Grab your balls, a 5th of Wild Turkey, light up big as Man o War cigar and go fuck shit up

Like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM8uzJ9g2V4

Skip to 3:30

Not Born This Morning
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I love the burnt matches. Another appropriate metaphor may be sitting ducks…

thekilljoy
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http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11880273

Anyone want to weigh in on this claptrap?

Roused
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“24 hours an no one’s mentioned the header picture yet.

Damn. I thought it was brilliant.”

What, Rollo seeking validation? LOL

Nice post.

Blaximus
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…. oh look, a ” scientific study “.

Laugh. My. Ass. Off.

Roused
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“Your new Red Pill self has no more excuses of ignorance – your life’s been handed back to you with the full knowledge of the system you’re a part of.”

Crystal fucking clear.

At this point it’s either keep moving forward or become one of the faces in featured image of this post. The choice demands no hesitation.

SJF
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…. oh look, a ” scientific study “. Laugh. My. Ass. Off. It is scientifically valid. I can vouch for that. However, the premise is false. Ironic that Ian Ironwood started off the comments. Everything he has ever written about Feminism would prove the premise false: Greater utility at survival as a strength virtue is misguided. Feminism shot itself in the foot and screwed it self into the ground. Feminism needs to die when it is done. (Disclaimer: Not Safe for Eddie Willers) (That’s a shit test of your mettle among guys, Eddie, don’t take it personally and don’t do… Read more »

Morpheus
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Buena,

Good to see you around! Hope your health is strong… I remember you went through some rough shit.

I’d agree RP is isolating. If you want to be part of “respectable” society you do have to be prudent about how vigilant you espouse RP truths. It is sadly ironic that a thrice divorced guy as in your example still has to participate in self delusion

walawala
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Between Losing my shit and yelling at a girl and crying in front of her…the one I never recovered from was crying.

That always lowers your value more…

Women say they want a new age sensitive guy….but it’s a kind of fantasy….in real life the minute you reach that point you’re no longer the protector or leader…

Not Born This Morning
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@ Rollo “Furthermore, men’s fundamental romantic nature is also attributed to our innate what-is-possible idealism.” I’m going philosophical here and some aren’t comfortable with that but this is worth considering. First I wholeheartedly agree with Rollo on this. By the way, this post is one of my favorites. They are all great for the most part, this one for me is significant because it hammers home from yet another perspective the truth that “there is no one”, All that said, here are my phisolophical thoughts. This phenomenon of “what-is-possible idealisim” is real in the sense that men conceptualize and the… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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…conceptualizing is real regardless…

Apple auto spell is a cluster fuck

Not Born This Morning
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@Rollo “….what I’m wondering is why this need to surrender self is an intrinsic aspect in men?”

It is not a need, it is cowardice.

Not Born This Morning
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@Rollo “Is this a characteristic that separates Betas from Alphas? I’d like to think so, but then a distinction needs to be made between being a Strong Independent Alpha who lives up to a positive, pro-social, conventionally masculine role (despite a world arrayed against it) and the same who, though still respectively Alpha, surrenders his sense of self to the woman he idolizes.” Here specifically enlies the problem. When someone surrenders their sense of self, they are litterally willfully loosing their identity. When someone looses their identity, they loose their psychological perception of themselves. They loose their bearings and their… Read more »

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Despite being spoken of ad nauseam, frame still seems to be an elusive and ephemeral topic that hasn’t been pinned down adequately. To me personally, frame represents a man’s position in the dominance hierarchy pure and simple. Of course there is no global hierarchy but a multitude of parallel hierarchies and a multitude of different categories. We are a sexually dimorphic tournament , dominance hierarchies are written in our genes whether we like it or not. Even the solitary monk is playing the game but in a category different to most, heck even the angels are ranked. A man’s psychological… Read more »

anon01
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“I feel his conquests are hard to believe, but who knows. Maybe street spamming is the key” [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k51zX4kIoGs&w=640&h=360%5D You can’t learn game and “keep being yourself.” Rivelino’s game isn’t even that good in some of his filed reports. It is hard to believe because if it’s true it attacks your ego. Idealy you should watch rsdmax’s natural, go do the missions for 6 months or so, and then keep gaming for a year.(or find any other pua complete product, so that you know what a pull from start to finish looks like) You could also find if there is… Read more »

Oscar C.
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@theasdgamer Thanks for the suggestions. One of my friends has that exact playful mindset when dealing with women and he for sure has better results. I have always been more rigid: good in formal social interactions where rules are well-known, but at a loss in the dating game. @anon01 You are right, it is certainly painful to see others succeed when you do not. I found the conquests hard to believe because I have never witnessed anything like that in my social circle, but I am not saying it is impossible. The guy seems hell-bent on chatting up girls and… Read more »

gregg
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Yes precisely, this what I am talking about. But make no mistake its not due to brainwashing of the society, this brainwashing only helps this dynaminc, but it did not created it. Vast majority of men are born and designated as slaves to women. Its evolution in work. Without this helplessness without this subconscious need to be cherished, recognized and appreciated by women, without this soulmate meme, women would have no power over men. Her is stronger, he has abstract intelligence – literally anything with more than two moving parts was invented by men, he is not burdened with pregnancy.… Read more »

Glengarry
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OK, Oscar, if you know what the signals mean but don’t know how to chase or escalate, then you will of course need to practice. From the practical viewpoint, I get the impression that you have confidence but are a bit too much in your head when you should be thinking about “emotionally convincing” the girl and always escalating, with a bit of patience (because she will by her nature put on the brakes from time to time). Here I think it’s good to look at the successes of PUA. That there are a number of practical hurdles you need… Read more »

Glengarry
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Actually, rather than the usual approach of learning to convince girls to take your dick that I outlined above, there are also a couple of other strategies. First off, you can dedicate yourself to being an ‘alpha’, for instance by being a well-toned fun musician like young Rollo. In short, be someone that girls like to be around. Then women may want to convince you to give them your dick. Read the IOIs, but it will be comparatively easy. The other approach, which I think is the quiet key to getting a high notch count, is to become a ‘pussy… Read more »

SFC Ton
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Regarding the article I spent 30 ish years in strength athletics. Never meet a bitch who could successfully compete with men in her same weight class. The 300 pound bitches had decent totals for 220 pound men but nothing earth shaking. Fuck as gay as golf is women still don’t drive the ball as far. And golf is at least as gay as soccer The article is your typical virtue signalling rally the troops bullshit. Not even the worst of it’s kind. Recently read an article from a black chick celebrating the death of that UVA student who was locked… Read more »

Seraph
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@Eddie, “I had surrendered to isolation for a while, and I am doubling down on it now – I see no other choice. Red Pill truth has alienated me from everyone, and myself. “Lift, bro” hasn’t worked. Therapy, psych meds, yoga, meditation, monk mode, TRT, helping others, “man up,” “let it go,” “change the way you think,” “practice gratitude,” “be mindful,” etc – none of it has worked or integrated.” I hear you. I am there, or was just recently let there, and I am really trying not to look back. The Dragon of Chaos as Professor Peterson would put,… Read more »

Blaximus
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@ Johhnycomelately

Women are not actually the arbiters and gatekeepers of anything as far a men are concerned. Nor do they really want to be.

But if guys wish to give them that kind of power, they’ll take it. They won’t like it, but they’ll do it.

theasdgamer
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@Oscar Learning to be playful will be work at first. There’s no way to avoid going through the stages of incompetent consciousness (the beginning, where you’re learning), competent consciousness (where you’re succeeding, but only with effort), until you reach mastery at competent unconsciousness and being playful costs you no effort. Be diligent and persistent and you will achieve success and probably enjoy life more. Practice being playful whenever you can…at the market…on the subway…waiting in queues…on ferries…with your mates…whenever you are out among people. After about a year, you should achieve mastery and that will last the rest of your… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
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DisgruntledEarthling
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@Oscar Thanks for the suggestions. One of my friends has that exact playful mindset when dealing with women and he for sure has better results. I have always been more rigid: good in formal social interactions where rules are well-known, but at a loss in the dating game. This is key to getting any positive results with any stranger, regardless of sex. Being rigid and formal is anti-game. No amount of pua knowledge, lifting, or better dressing will overcome this aspect of personality. In my case I was more this than loose and funny – 30 years of computer programming… Read more »

Lost Patrol
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thekilljoy

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11880273

More affirmation of a concept that has been well documented at TRM. Men and women are equal in every way. Gender and gender roles is a social construct.

Unless material can be found or fabricated that shows women are superior in some area. Then the sexes are different and unequal again, in those areas only.

Feminine primary social order.

Seraph
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@Rollo,

“24 hours an no one’s mentioned the header picture yet.

Damn. I thought it was brilliant.”

We just know that being as Red Pill as you are, you do not seek the validation and affirmation of others…

anon
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I read La Shat’s hate screed. Sadly there doesn’t seem any way to respond to the Huff post piece (never heard of the huff post…perhaps there’s a clue in the name, and keep huffing la shat! Soon you’ll reach Warmbier’s end state of mental cognizance…you’re well on the way, I’d say only 50 percent left to go). I do think Otto was naive and foolish to visit the DPRK. But folks on the left are the ones constantly spouting about “American ignorance” and the need for “cultural enrichment” of the disenfranchised/marginalized peoples who might behave badly but let’s-not-hold-that-against-them and those-are-Conservative-lies-anyway.… Read more »

Seraph
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Damn…Roused got there first…

thomasso75
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@Rollo The last paragraph makes me wonder about something. Is it at all possible to fall in love once the red pill awareness in fully internalized? From my own experience, since I stumbled upon your blog and other blogs on this subject, I have been with several women, but have kept my feelings at distance. I’m not sure whether this is what you write about frequently when you explain the internalization of the red pill. You talk about purple pill and that men, even though they discover these thruths, still operate from a blue pill mindset. Does that mean that… Read more »

anon
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Just looking at the Dennis Rodman video and thinking maybe the reason for Warmbier’s as of yet unexplained anoxic encephalopathy has been answered.
He smoked too many DPRK cigars.

anon
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“http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11880273 More affirmation of a concept that has been well documented at TRM. Men and women are equal in every way. Gender and gender roles is a social construct. Unless material can be found or fabricated that shows women are superior in some area. Then the sexes are different and unequal again, in those areas only. From the article: “”But strength can be defined in different ways. When it comes to the most basic instinct of all – survival – women’s bodies tend to be better equipped than men’s.” Yes indeed. If we redefine words they mean different things. This… Read more »

anon
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Forgot to mention the photo.
It’s cool in an artsy way…but to me it looks like a funeral pyre for a tribe of giraffe people.

EhIntellect
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“…anything that makes him identify with the feminine…” “Real men wear pink.” Fuck that. “emotionally investing himself in, any particular woman…” Oh yeah, that can be me. Months back, Mrs. Eh was thrown to the ground during a street fight. I went suicidal insane, dragging someone head-locked on me, fighting my way to help her. Later, I was shocked at my complete lack of self-preservation. Still am, and admit I’d probably do the same thing next time. I haven’t reconciled this apparently. “nor will the sacrifices that come from this vulnerability ever be something she has a capacity to appreciate.”… Read more »

Oscar C.
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@glengarry Thanks for your remarks, they are greatly appreciated. About the “pussy hound” thing, the idea of being with far lower SMV women than oneself, I admit having passed up opportunities in the past. I think I am too proud and also (used to) take myself very seriously. So I felt I deserved more. Come to think of it, it is quite a feminine mindset. @theasdgamer I am feeling confident in developing that playfulness because even if I have nerdy hobbies I have always been a very social person, easily making new friends and interacting with people. The hardest part… Read more »

rugby11
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Sentient
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Thomasso75

” Is it at all possible to fall in love once the red pill awareness in fully internalized?”

Love – falling in love – 💘 is a bunch of chemical reactions interpreted by inexperience. So no. 👎

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@ Constrainedlocus. I agree with your observation. Love and war have two things in common they are both easy to start and hard to finish. And second the first causality of both love and war is the truth. The question that I ponder is why a female needs surrender. A man only wants piece in his home but her sexuality demands drama tension and fighting . The best sex a female ever has is make up sex after a battle. So why demand surrender. What good is bent neck husband ? Is it because she is lazy or cannot compete… Read more »

kfg
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”But strength can be defined in different ways.”

Fire in the hole!

Blaximus
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If the best sex a woman has is make up sex after a fight, the man responsible for this is failing hard as fuck. Arguing and fighting display a misplaced passion. Passion leads to great sex. Where’s that passion the rest of the time? Women don’t demand surrender. The FI lives for males surrendering. Like everything else, the FI is fucked up and wrong about this also. An RP aware man understands how to get the passion from a woman without drama and fights ( or at least he won’t be pulled into a woman’s frame while engaging an angry… Read more »

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@Eddie ““The advise I was given when I first posted here was that TAKING ACTION is the only thing that matters.” “Take ACTION for a year, and only then say that. This is bullshit.” This is essentially the same thing most anyone with brains in the manosphere says, and you are right. I have taken various forms of action for over two years. They don’t stick, integrate, or become lifelong habits. This is a different problem/conversation entirely. Feel free to re-read my initial message to see the things I have done/tried. I will check out more of the RSD stuff,… Read more »

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Thomasso75 ” Is it at all possible to fall in love once the red pill awareness in fully internalized?” Love is simply redefined in the mind of a red pill man. Interestingly, and maybe there’s a good Rollo post in here somewhere, the script I’ve sort of settled on is to simply treat love as women do.. as temporary. I live in the present now.. as women do. There is no limit to my passion for a woman.. But I’m careful to classify it as only something I have now, not something I expect to have in the future. I… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@Oscar C The hardest part is to let go of a deeply ingrained tendency to rationalize things, which is useful for learning but fails when dealing with female fickleness and volatility. lol, sure, changing yourself is hard work if you have a habit of thinking analytically all the time, that will hurt your relationships with both men and women…men like other men who joke and lift their spirits now, when you post, don’t express yourself analytically, but playfully…think analytically if it is needed, but switch up to playful when you form your posts here “I got dis, Charles.” Dennis Rodman,… Read more »

Keith
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Very good read Rollo for one sexual strategy to succeed the other must suffer. So surrender is a buffer to a sexless LTR. Curl up In a bottle or hide in X-box games or TV. Surrender your dominance and leadership. Peace at any cost. Lay down and crawl to the all powerful poon. Nooop not for me NO Surrender No retreat

SJF
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Women don’t demand surrender initially, nor do they want to dominate a desirable man. They do it by default for the safety of themselves and the children when the man is not being an attractive man (one that that the woman can opportunistically benefit from whether alpha or beta.) Her ultimate desire is to relax in the demonstration of your direction. So demonstrate your direction well. What Blax explains, if the man lies down she should do what she has to do and the man should deserve what he gets for lying down. DeidaSpeak: “A woman must be able to… Read more »

EhIntellect
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“Love is simply redefined in the mind of a red pill man.”

I thought the same.

Women feel secure, happiest when dominated, submitted with a side of provisioning. The unhappiest women I meet are those busiest with careers, their own “self-improvement”.

Oscar C.
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@Eh

“The unhappiest women I meet are those busiest with careers, their own “self-improvement””

I know this will be perceived as hopelessly BP on my part, but aren’t there women who don’t want to get married or have children, even if few in number?

Also something that bothers me after a lot of manosphere reading, is that there seems to be no different types of women; men are divided in alphas, betas, omegas… but women are always treated as a more or less homogeneous group in terms of character. Is there an attempt at female subdivisions somewhere?

rugby11
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rugby11
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Sentient
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Tuffluv

This is all not because of anything except me.. MY ability to let go early. MY recognition of what is worth working for and what is not. MY decisions. MY freedom.

Sounding in Platinum Rule.

But I still loved them all, when they were in love with me.. when they treated me like a king.

Act like a king… get treated like one… huh?!!

TuffLuv
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Oscar there absolutely is.. There are women (the majority of what you see on the scene) who do not fight and are not ashamed of their hypergamous nature, who have bought into the have it all lie, or have just come from a shitty place and are depraved. Then there are women who were raised right. These women suppress their innate tendencies.. They do so knowingly.. they have shame.. I know they exist because 90% of the women in my very large extended family are cut from this cloth. The best women I’ve found are those who had strong and… Read more »

Sentient
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Night and day difference. in how they act [which is directly related to how they’ve gotten away with stuff or not in their lives – training], but AWALT inside. Always AWALT. Women are herd animals.

TuffLuv
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I agree Sentient, but men will still risk it all on a woman.. for a family. Choosing a good one among the AWALT is probably the most important thing of all.. A good one has a sense of duty, and is a critical thinker to a degree (not easily swayed by the narrative), and who has a traditional moral foundation. I’ve found that women who were close to their fathers are the most heavily endowed with these traits.

EhIntellect
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“but aren’t there women who don’t want to get married or have children”

All women are hard wired, physically and emotionally, to fuck, have children. The FI sells women this unfulfilled bill of sale: Women will find fulfillment by being more independently masculine. Strong, independent woman is a fallacy, they want submission. The more a woman resists domination the more complete the submission when breaking. Hypergamy assists them in finding the best gene donor possible, THE best guy (at the time) they will submit to in bed. AWALT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trPe1i9RE0c

“Is there an attempt at female subdivisions somewhere?”

Here, no.

https://therationalmale.com/2013/03/19/quality-women/

EhIntellect
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“Choosing a good one among the AWALT is probably the most important thing of all…”

I see where you’re going…and short of choosing a psychopath, saying “good one” taints the RP mind with BP ideals. An ounce of shit in a gallon of ice cream tastes more like shit than ice cream.

I look at this way: avoid the small percentage of diagnosable troubled women. The rest are AWALT with negligible emotional stability/quality/emotional differences. The woman wants a man to lead her, she will follow. AWALT.

Ask me how I know.

It’s us, not them.

Glengarry
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“I admit having passed up opportunities in the past. I think I am too proud and also (used to) take myself very seriously. So I felt I deserved more.” Oscar, for what it’s worth I’m a bit picky too. But there was a fork in the road during high school when my best friend’s mother, perhaps 35 or so at the time, showed discreetly but clearly she wouldn’t mind a roll in the hay. I balked, because she was like old and c’mon it’s way too weird … but I feel certain that going along would have been the first… Read more »

Incubus_Rising
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Keith
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@Blaximus @ SJF I understand what you saying. if you get to the point of surrender its over any way. NEXT

Oscar C.
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@Eh

I think you can believe in NAWALT as long as you are aware that once your parents depart you are truly alone in the world. Thank God I grasped this as a kid already.

Oscar C.
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@Glengarry Haha nice story. A friend’s mom is awkward for sure. In my case it was a very fat girl I met through a dating app. She was not a full-blown whale but still not enticing. I could felt she was really into me and really felt bad cutting her off. At the time I thought I needed to do it to harden emotionally and develop my asshole self, but with the benefit of hindsight I could have got some sex practice. From what I have been reading here knowing how to perform in bed is key to success, and… Read more »

Sentient
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Rollo What are your thoughts on [former?] manosphere icon Clooney’s haul? Still, it’s not bad for a company that began in the Mexican holiday homes of Hollywood’s elite. But analysts question whether Casamigos, which shifted a relatively modest 120,000 cases in 2016, is worth such an overblown price tag. With a bottle selling for between $45 and $55, the company’s tequila probably generated some $70 million in 2016 revenue at retail. But when retail markup and wholesale prices are taken into account, the company’s actual sales could be closer to an estimated $36 million—which would mean, at $700 million, Diageo… Read more »

kfg
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@Oscar: “I think you can believe in NAWALT as long as you are aware that once your parents depart you are truly alone in the world.”

Your mother is Like That.

“From what I have been reading here knowing how to perform in bed is key to success . . .”

Then you have misunderstood.

Fred Flange, GBFC (Great Books for Cucks)
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Strangely (or not), I know of several women not wanting a murder of crows of their very own. Some are still on the professional wheel, others don’t want the inconvenience, a very few fear the consequences of what’s coming future-wise and why submit a sprog to that? My attitude, of course, is if you know you don’t wants any, don’t haves any. Obv. I am not terribly sympathetic toward those who suddenly have baby envy around age 45 and get all shirty about it (yes yes I know). One I know refused to have kids until she was near 50,… Read more »

Mike
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@ Eddie Willers: Stop the self-depreciation. If you think you are a piece of shit, you feel like one and experience your life like one. It sounds too simple, but if you are less harsh on yourself, you will get better eventually. Also, you list 100 things you tried. For how long? Two years? That is nothing. Some people do only one thing say Yoga for 10 years and they still are not enlightened. What did you expect? Meditate for 3 hrs and then live a life full of bliss? I’d recommend you pick the 1-2 things that were most… Read more »

Oscar C.
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@kfg Haha, you misunderstood me, although I admit it was easy to do so. Yes, “my mother is like that”, but from her I can expect unconditional love as a son. Same from my father. Once they are gone, there will be NO ONE in life I can fully trust. Not women of course, but neither male friends (I am lucky enough to have a loving family. Guys who do not might have a different take on this, but I honestly don’t think your best buddy will ever sacrifice as much for you as a normal parent would). You can… Read more »

anon
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My family never gave me unconditional love, nor would I expect it from anyone, nor do I believe in it.
Oscar, just looking at your image there…I watched Boardwalk Empire and always thought it would be a very interesting red pill topic. More so than Breaking Bad because there are more alpha characters (IMO)
Chalky and Richard are my favorite characters. I think they are both alpha.

SFC Ton
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Men claim to have interesting lives but mostly what they have is lives interesting to them and boring as hell to everyone else.

Sentient
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“normal” parents… Lol.

Everything is good in Situation Normal Oscar… When that becomes SNAFU – you will find that you were really all alone all this time.

Heh he… Right now a lot of my 50+ friends are discovering that when Mom dies… Dad finds himself a new one. And THAT one tends to want all the money. 💰

Bye bye inheritance… Hello lawyers.

Oscar C.
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@anon

I am sorry to hear that, and I understand your outlook.

About Boardwalk Empire, truth is I have never watched it, maybe I should give it a chance. I found the Buscemi pic somewhere and thought it looked cool. I like vintage 20th century themes.

I generally avoid TV and movies because sex is all over the place. Also I think you subsconsciously learn bad habits game-wise.

Oscar C.
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@ Sentient

Damn man I had not thought of that nightmarish scenario smile

Mineter
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Not to revisit the old Aussie guy and Goldmund thing, but I can’t help wondering “what should the surrendered man do now?”. I mentioned the above because answers along the lines of “he should never have surrendered in the first place” are unhelpful. “Next” is also an obvious answer, underpinned by the Sixth Iron Rule of Tomassi. But what else? I’m thinking that the only other viable option is insurrection, rebellion. The beaten man must first and foremost learn how to say “no”, to refuse to be complicit in his own enslavement. He needs to let go of his fear… Read more »

Blaximus
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Yup.

Being a man isn’t comfortable or easy at all times, despite what any ” strong women ” studies might suggest.

SFC Ton
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Eddie, I am quick to call pussies pussy. Sometimes life beats us down. That doesn’t make us pussies. Sometimes we are beat down real good and it takes us awhile to keep back up and start swinging again. Needing some recovery time dodon’t make us pussies. Taking stock after a beat down and changing our plan of attack and/ or objectives doesn’t make us pussies. Getting beat down and staying down makes a man a pussy. Nothing you wrote screamed here lies a pussy. I ain’t got any advice for you, there are smarter men here for that but as… Read more »

kfg
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“The beaten man must first and foremost learn how to say “no”, to refuse to be complicit in his own enslavement.”

There it is.

rugby11
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Not Born This Morning
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A few more thoughts on romantic idealism, it’s usurpation of personal identity and lack of responsibility… In my previous comments, I touched upon the fact that romantic idealisim displaces ones perception of self when it is prioritized above the self. This is delusional and self destructive because the “victim” figuratively attempts to appoint a fantasy as the captain of his own ship instead of himself. No person can captianeer your ship but you, and an illusion sure as hell cannot. It is impossible for anyone else to. Others can influence, mislead and deceive you into sailing your ship upon the… Read more »

Sentient
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Mineter

comment image

I’m thinking that the only other viable option is insurrection, rebellion. The beaten man must first and foremost learn how to say “no”, to refuse to be complicit in his own enslavement. He needs to let go of his fear of consequences of doing so.

Veeeery Platinum Rule… wink

Deplorabard
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Being human, we are all damaged goods in some way. It affects everyone differently. Eddie sounds like he went all in without the proper perspective, got burned, and it changed him profoundly. That is OK man. We have all done it before TRP. The Army used to have a program called “Battle Mind”. It was intended to prepare young soldiers for some of the harsh realities they might see before actually encountering them. We need to get to young men before they are actually damaged by the harsh reality of women. The truth is, you must always be first. You… Read more »

SJF
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“I’m thinking that the only other viable option is insurrection, rebellion. The beaten man must first and foremost learn how to say “no”, to refuse to be complicit in his own enslavement. He needs to let go of his fear of consequences of doing so. I see jumbled objectives here. Thinking of Eddie Willers here. Insurrection and rebellion take a team of men. A big team. That is a top down approach to red pill and game. You don’t start insurrection and rebellion as an individual. That’s suicidal. The beaten down man that surrendered already didn’t learn to say no.… Read more »

Mineter
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@SJF Perhaps I’ve not been clear. I am not advocating any top down approach. A man can and should rebel within his own relationship enslavement. Who is going to come rescue him? Likely no-one. Might it be suicidal? Possibly, but it won’t be by his own hand. And not to harp on about, telling the beaten man who has surrendered that he’s too late, is already fucked and needs to get out of there, isn’t actually practical advice to that poor sod about how to go about getting himself out of that situation. “The man who succumbs, by force or… Read more »

Mineter
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To get back to Eddie, there is probably a whole battery of questions he’d need to ask himself about various aspects of his life, in order to identify and priorise the aspects of his life to improve, and set about a concrete plan to do so. But here’s the thing that is scary, that few men fail to admit to: not everything can be fixed. You may not get to start over. I’m not talking about defeatism and giving up too easily or not even trying. What I mean is honestly taking stock of your situation and declaring “right, my… Read more »

Oscar C.
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@Not Born This Morning

“They are attempting to disconnect from the misery and confusion by attempting to disconnect from women. Their balls will never allow them to disconnect from women.”

Probably so, but I am slowly coming to the conclusion that men can not win no matter what they do:
-If they try to forego any sexual contact, they are doing an unhealthy thing, going against their nature.
-If they look to get laid, they have to be constantly doing an effort to do so.

I miss being a kid and worrying about higher things.

anon
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“I am sorry to hear that, and I understand your outlook.”

Thank you, but I probably didn’t explain that very well. I wasn’t complaining.
My life is exactly as I want it to be (well, within the context of my family and relationships…there are of course a lot of things beyond my control).

I have a results-based perspective on life, not a procedure-based perspective.

p^2 dating
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Men are pre-whipped into this beta mindset because their SMV is not determined by their behavior.

Alpha beta is rather a synonym for SMV . If the man is acting alpha but doesn’t look alpha, it only makes matters worse.

In essence, men act beta because that is their only choice , otherwise never have female contact. You cannot outfight your genetics

Novaseeker
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Probably so, but I am slowly coming to the conclusion that men can not win no matter what they do: -If they try to forego any sexual contact, they are doing an unhealthy thing, going against their nature. -If they look to get laid, they have to be constantly doing an effort to do so. @Oscar C. — That’s the burden of performance, right there. The game goes on whether we like it or not — it’s called life. You get to choose how you want to play, and your choices have a large impact on the outcome. You can… Read more »

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