Kill Your Idols

The Family Alpha had a motivational post about getting over a past lover this week.

https://thefamilyalpha.com/2017/06/09/getting-over-your-relationship-ptsd-pt-ii-give-love-one-more-chance/

I thought this was a reasonably good post. My only reservation (and this is no reflection on TFA) is I’m seeing a lot of “get back on the horse and ride” positivity attempts to replace rational understanding of intersexual dynamics when it comes to men’s bad experiences with women or break ups in the Manosphere these days. I’m not saying that “steel sharpening steel” encouragement or a sharp kick in the ass isn’t helpful for these men. Lord knows I’m apt to do just that myself with what I’ve been writing for over a decade, but it’s my view that understanding the mechanics of why that experience happened, and learning about women and oneself is vital to a man’s personal development.

It’s not enough to say ‘sack up, go lift and get over it’; a man’s got to learn from that pain, go through the process of developing insight from what Red Pill awareness shows him about it and grow from it. Yes, men can dwell on it and let it consume them or they can utilize those feelings to motivate them to understanding how they came to be in these circumstances. I don’t think I’m exaggerating here when I say that the most common way most men come to my blog (or any number of other Red Pill blogs) or the Manosphere proper is as the result of going through a traumatic breakup.

I’ve mentioned this in many prior posts that, unfortunately, the time men are most receptive to Red Pill awareness comes when they’re experiencing the loss of a lover whom they believed was a key goal of their Blue Pill idealism. Their “perfect” Blue Pill world was destroyed for them, but more importantly their ego-investments in that world reached a point that Red Pill reality would no longer sustain for him. It’s at this juncture men seek out the Red Pill community. Some of the most common search terms The Rational Male blog gets linked to are phrases like “How do I get my girlfriend back?” and “How do I get over an Ex?”

While I can empathize with men in such circumstance, I also recognize that men need to Kill the Beta before it kills them. A lot of guys reeling from having the Blue Pill rug pulled out from under them resort to either suicide, self-improvement or a long-term dwelling upon what they believe was a loss they will never be able to replace. And even after the acceptance of that loss becomes normalcy for him, his subconscious still wont allow him to move on – even when he thinks he has.

Studies have shown that while women may take a breakup the hardest (generally, only when they’re the ones being dumped) it is men who suffer more in the long term, and, because of men’s mental firmware and differing sexual strategy, may never truly get over it:

But men are more “competitive” in their approach, meaning the loss of a woman they see as a good catch could be deeply felt for months or even years.

Anyone familiar with my essay War Brides, understands the evolutionary reasoning behind why women have an ability to move on after a breakup so much quicker than men. However, much of men’s inability to let go is dependent upon his investment in his Blue Pill conditioning; that and how his subconscious believes in where he fits in a sexual marketplace founded on Blue Pill idealism:

“The man will likely feel the loss deeply and for a very long period of time as it sinks in that he must start competing all over again to replace what he has lost – or worse still, come to the realization that the loss is irreplaceable,” says Morris.

And because women have more to lose by choosing the wrong partner, they are also more likely to pull the plug on a relationship – with 70% of divorces in the US filed by women.

Kill Your Idols

This only reinforces my stance on Blue Pill men investing themselves in the fallacy of Relational Equity. One reason men have such trouble getting over a previous lover is because Blue Pill conditioning predisposes men to idolize women on whole, while their old books perspective fosters the idea that their investment in the relationship should be what sustains it – rather than accepting the cold, harsh reality of Hypergamy.

TFA writes:

Many men have given the power over their inner-self entirely to the women of their lives. They let their ex-relationships dictate their future relationships, trying to do the opposite of before or they’ll fall into the same routine ultimately leading to a love life filled with redundancy without progress.

You need to break the cycle.

Married men, divorced men, guys coming out of a shitty LTR, and even the men who had a plate cheat on them thus scarring their soul permanently are not acting in accordance with their masculine self if they’re basing decisions off how they can avoid heartache again.

This is good advice, but I think one of the mistakes Blue Pill men make when they exit (or are ejected from) a relationship is that they see a relationship as the only legitimate form of intersexual dynamics. Once a man unplugs, for better or worse, that idolization, the giving over power of self to the Feminine has to be dispelled – but not at the expense of a full understanding of the Red Pill awareness that brings him to unplugging in the first place.

Most men, the largely 80% Beta majority, are conditioned to be serial monogamists. They are taught to identify with the feminine to the point that only what he believes women’s (old books) sexual prioritization should be is correct and valid for himself. A lot of well-meaning Red Pill men think monogamy is the only rational decision to break the cycle.

One of the maxims of the Manosphere is that the best way to get over a woman is to go fuck 20 more before you consider monogamy with another one. This advice actually makes, an albeit simplistic, sense in that the best way to avoid ONEitis is to Spin Plates. Usually, that’s what a bad Blue Pill rejection amounts to; a losing of the best thing that Beta has ever had in terms of sexual access. The Blue Pill conditioned mindset predisposes men to a scarcity mentality and it does so by training men to believe that exclusive monogamy is the only meaningful condition in which a sexual, intimate relationship can take place for him.

So, stemming from this scarcity mentality, we get generations of preconditioned Betas latching on to self-induced ONEitis-prone relationships. Thus, you get pitiable Beta men just this side of suicidal over average HB 5-6 women. I would argue that the reason we see such a preponderance of men bemoaning their post-rejection state (suicide or self-pity) is directly attributable to Blue Pill conditioning and then taking it from there.

Telling this post-rejection Beta, who thought he’d had his Blue Pill dreams come true, that he ought to Spin Plates, fuck 20 women and go lift is like speaking a foreign language to him. His Blue Pill mindset can’t comprehend it, at least at first. Getting past this state of shock usually involves despair, anger, disillusionment – he’s as likely to fight you for being misogynist as he is to fall apart in tears – but as I’ve always said, unplugging guys from the Matrix is dirty work.

Now, just for sake of comparison here, it should be noted that if we go by the Pareto Principle and presume 80% of men are Betas and 20% are some shade of Alpha, we’ll see the dynamics for a breakup change accordingly. I would argue that for the 80% of Beta men, they are the ones women are breaking up with. And the logic of women’s sexual strategy would also suggest that if a woman perceives her mate to be 1-2 steps in SMV above herself she would be less (if at all) inclined to initiate a breakup with a guy she sees as Alpha. Thus, the more Alpha a man, the less prone to ONEitis and lingering post-breakup psychosis he’ll be.

Doing the Work – Pre vs. Post Unplugging

Recently there’s been a push to paint Red Pill aware men as bitter guys who get stuck in the anger phase of unplugging. No doubt this can happen, and considering the mass effect of Blue Pill conditioning in men it’s easy to see how it happens for them. For the larger part I concur with what The Family Alpha is suggesting here; for both psychological and personal reasons it can be all too easy for men to get stuck dwelling on an experience with one woman and then transferring that anger and regret to a self-limiting outlook that holds him back from interacting with women. I imagine some of my MGTOW readers see this as being pragmatic, but as with everything for men, isolation is dangerous.

On the other hand, however, I still think we need to guard against falling into the trap of thinking that a man’s holding onto his Blue Pill regrets, or transferring that pain to a real misogyny means that fundamental Red Pill awareness is the source of his self-limitations. The point of Red Pill awareness isn’t to make a man ‘hate’ women, but rather to inform him of women’s nature so he wont hate what he’d never expect from women.

I really think there are two opposing sides that evolved from Red Pill awareness. On one extreme we have hardline MGTOW men wanting to remove themselves wholesale from interacting with women – largely because of their Red Pill awareness. And on the other we’ve got the Positive Mindset brokers believing that Red Pill awareness leads to the anger and resentment that causes men to limit themselves with women.

In the middle of this we have men who’ve found a new balance in their lives because they became Red Pill aware and created a new, healthier paradigm for themselves with it. It becomes a game of exaggerated nihilism vs. exaggerated optimism, but in the middle we have to find a healthy pragmatism in how we will use this awareness to redefine ourselves. It appears to me that at either extreme there comes a limiting of just how much Red Pill awareness either set is willing to embrace.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Curiously, I posted on a similar topic today. The main point of my new post is that men in north america, are for a variety or reasons, still far more likely to act and think in a gynocentric manner- even if they are online.

https://dissention.wordpress.com/2017/06/13/pedestalling-of-women-by-american-vs-non-american-men-1/

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There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding about MGTOWs within the manosphere. The core tenet of MGTOW (at least from what I gleaned from /r/mgtow) is NOT rejecting sex, it is rejecting relationships. Maybe we need a different term for men expressly choosing celibacy (Men Going the Celibate Way?) but I digress.

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[…] The Family Alpha had a motivational post about getting over a past lover this week. Getting Over Your Relationship PTSD Pt. II: Give Love One More Chance I thought this was a continue […]

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Rollo

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“In the middle of this we have men who’ve found a new balance in their lives because they became Red Pill aware and created a new, healthier paradigm for themselves with it.” Call me middle. I’m a huge fan of healthy (relationships), as well as a huge fan of idealism, which the the OP of TheFamilyAlpha espouses. TheFamilyAlpha is a true idealist. I think there is this thing about converting AFC Blue Pill Guys, v.s. speaking to the crowd going on here. TheFamilyAlpha is speaking to the crowd of the Red Pill Advocates. This is not a criticism. It is… Read more »

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I’m now at the point in my own game and Red Pill development where I now recognise what’s going on and what the correct response to any number of social sexual situations with women should be. It used to be when I went out I was conscious of ” is this attraction or comfort”? It’s now at that point where if I fuck it up I know the correct response or reaction. I feel more natural but also do get frustrated or down by rejection. I’m now working hard moving past the “did anyone notice that beta move” to self… Read more »

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The Family Alpha writes well, and his contentions are difficult to refute. But for most men, his advice simply will not work. Yes, the Burden of Performance falls only on men. A man can improve himself to his best, and still his marriage/LTR will suck. Why? The 7th Iron Rule, of course. https://therationalmale.com/2011/09/08/rooting-through-garbage/ (See also Rollo’s epic Reconstruction series.) And there will come the time, I say inevitably for the unplugged man, when he will truly ponder the question “is the juice worth the squeeze?”. The recently hurt Blue Pill Guy needs time and subtle encouragement to get over the… Read more »

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>> Red Pill awareness leads to the anger and resentment that causes men to limit themselves with women Hmmm. This takes me a minute to take in… I know these guys. The MGTOW guys. And the “they’re all hypergamous bitches” types. For me… there is only awareness. If you’re aware, if you can truly see, you are probably “red pill.” But there isn’t “red pill awareness.” If you’re really aware, you’re probably not MGTOW or bitter “they’re all sluts” type of guys. If you can see… it’s about what you want to do with what you can see??? That might… Read more »

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Rolo is missing that there is not only understanding how intersexual dynamics work, but it is more important to take in to account how man’s neurochemistry changes when he is introduced to responsive female with SMV high enough. Therefore reference should be made to addictive substances or activities like gambling, which also gives men high. One may enjoy gambling or alcohol and to some men in reasonable quantities gambling and alcohol does no harm. However it is common knowledge that for most men overindulging may lead to addiction very fast. There is solid evidence available that even red pill man… Read more »

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Lack of understanding makes men much more prone to making detrimental decisions. Weaker will also plays a role. There’s nothing wrong with ” feeling ” a certain way around what one perceives as a high smv woman, but understanding intersexual dynamics could/should prevent one from engaging in the rampant pedestalization that is far, far too common. Will and understanding can always be strengthened. That’s how a man was put on the moon. Ever heard the phrase ” working yourself up “? How you react to what you perceive is always going to be key. A man fools himself into oneitis… Read more »

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“The core tenet of MGTOW (at least from what I gleaned from /r/mgtow) is NOT rejecting sex, it is rejecting relationships.” Nor is MGTOW necessarily about avoiding all contact with women. The definition is mainly about limiting legal and emotional ties to women. So marriage is definitely off limits. Having children probably too, and also living with women. But this site seems to be saying most men ultimately can and should become “Alpha”. Is this even possible? Surely throughout history most men have been Beta? Albeit the average Beta man, even in the recent past, would have been more masculine/Alpha… Read more »

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The first step in accomplishing anything in life is first understanding that it is possible.

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Rhetorical question: was Briseis Achilles’ ONEITIS?

The idealization of a specific woman is, at root, an idealization of self. Remove the specific woman and the self crumbles–tragically.

Not all idols are as obvious as a soapstone figurine.

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@ AD

Good article. Instagram is in many ways the new porn. Average chicks can garner attention well outside of what their true smv dictates, and highly beta/thirsty males can express their desires in ” real time “.

This is an absolutely horrible development in society, turbocharging the pedestalization of everything female and making the pseudo masculine subservient.

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I think Family Alpha’s post shows we are still in a transitional phase where women can operate under the new set of books while still getting men to act under the old set of books when it conveniences them. Even a redpiller like FA advices for men to hold out for ‘love’, I wonder how much love she’ll have for you when your the 40th or 100th cab off the ranks. Rollo’s advice is more apt, kill the beta, knock off the idol and have sex on your terms. Given the nature of social inertia I wonder how long it… Read more »

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“Keep in mind that one cannot battle chemistry introduced in system with willpower or understanding how things work, more successfully than one may regulate heartrate at will.”

Epigenetics is a wonderful thing, I’m thinking all it will take is two generations of enough men to see women fucking around like Banshees to start correcting dopamine fluctuations. Heck, getting it shoved in your face a couple of times by a cheating loved one will usually suffice.

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Regulate heart rate…. Meditation.

Lol.

Of course this requires practice and understanding. There’s that damn word again.

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@CSI “But this site seems to be saying most men ultimately can and should become “Alpha”. Is this even possible? Surely throughout history most men have been Beta?” “The first step in accomplishing anything in life is first understanding that it is possible.”–Blaximus It doesn’t hurt to have goals. Some of which should include for men: be more Alpha, be more masculine and be more attractive to a woman. A common saying on MRP reddit is: “Be attractive, don’t be unattractive.” Yep MGTOW holds limiting beliefs of both men’s and women’s capacities. I like TFA’s and Rollo’s and Blaximus’ Limitlessness… Read more »

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“Essentially Beta men get a double whammy; they have to struggle with their biological/Psychological response AND their Blue Pill preconditioning response to that rejection.”
https://twitter.com/_HairForceOne/status/764013172424515584

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@Days of Game: “… I know these guys. The MGTOW guys.”

No, you don’t. You know a subset of them.

@SJB: “Rhetorical question: was Briseis Achilles’ ONEITIS?”

Briseis was a rhetorical device. The mirror of Helen. There they were fighting at Troy over an issue of property and respect, and Agamemnon did to Achilles what Paris had done to Menelaus.

It’s part of the morality play.

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This post resonates with me as did TFA’s article you are referencing. Been reading both of your blogs along with TRP for about a year now. I am a classic example of being turned on to the Manoshpere after being cheated on by my wife and divorcing her. I lost my house, my kids half the time and shit ton of money in the process. I find myself still stuck in the anger phase of swallowing the RP at times. I go through stretches of time where I think I am out of that phase, but it still is lurking… Read more »

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@Limitless Interesting point about the chemicals in a man’s brain causing him to act in a manner that’s against his own self-interest. I’ve been thinking about that a lot lately since Dalrock posted this video on his site: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO1WccH2_YM (If the link doesn’t work, go to youtube and search for “common cuckoo ejects”) The video shows a cuckoo egg deposited in a reed warbler’s nest. The cuckoo chick hatches and then proceeds to eject the reed warbler eggs out of the nest. (I think it is well worth the watch btw because it will piss you off). The adult reed… Read more »

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@kfg: Briseis was a rhetorical device.

Truth. I think that’s what pisses women (feminists) off the most–when they realize (dimly) what they represent is not what they are . . . and then get ticked off further when realizing dissociation from what they represent leaves them as nothing.

Fred Flange, GBFC (Great Books For Cucks)
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A link that is somewhat OT – a way to help you find the mental force to kill your one-itis idol. Remember that women can often be mercurial to the max, and regret something almost as soon as they do it – in this case, cutting their hair short on a stupid whim: http://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/beauty/why-cutting-off-all-my-hair-was-the-worst-decision-i-ever-made/ar-BBCzVtg?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=ientp And then, if it’s you who’s dating them, it’s YOUR fault for letting them do it, even if they never spoke of it to you. Especially when they find out the hard way the hair doesn’t grow back as fast or as thick the second time,… Read more »

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@SJB – interesting statement but having trouble understanding its full implications… can you expound?

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“And then, if it’s you who’s dating them, it’s YOUR fault for letting them do it . . .” Since the Trojan war has come up again, I’ll bring this up again: The war happened because three women were having a cat fight over which one of them was the prettiest, and found a man to blame for the consequences. Same as it ever was. My hair falls below my shoulder blades and I’ve had women come up to me and run their fingers through it and go, “Oooooooooo” (do you think that’s an IOI?). I’ve been thinking of getting… Read more »

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” . . . interesting statement but having trouble understanding its full implications… ”

It was in my comment. The Trojan war wasn’t the Gamma raging of a jilted husband. It was about the disrespect of a Beta prince guest stealing a valuable piece of property from his Alpha Warrior King host.

Helen was just an object, a McGuffin really, to set up the morality play. It wasn’t all about her. She could have been replaced by any object that was a symbol of power, and in some versions of the play, she is.

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@dr zipper: A woman does not want to see a man’s idealization of her.

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sjb/kfg – this is what I’m trying to understand:

“… when they realize (dimly) what they represent is not what they are . . . and then get ticked off further when realizing dissociation from what they represent leaves them as nothing…”

trying to get what you meant by “not being what they represent” but is that from their own POV or the man’s?

I could fill in the blanks all kinds of ways but my assumptions may be wrong, trying to grasp your meaning as you intended

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@Dr. Zipper:

A woman does not want to see a man’s idealization of her because she does not understand it. There is no empathy for it, because she does not possess it. She’s Not Like That.

Seeing it creeps her out.

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@dr zipper: Both her POV and the man’s. @Rollo & @kfg have the clearest answers.

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@Rollo Tomassi >> the real twist here is how men are conditioned to believe that any woman, even the most mediocre, is always higher SMV than himself. Hmmm. I’m high on the word “Patriarch” right now… it’s most beautiful meaning. I think it is a occupational hazard of an aspiring Patriarch that could cause him think like this… maybe he ebbs/flows on this topic of his relative SMV, but it’s his BEHAVIORS that make it so. If our Proud Patriarch is trying to lead, to provide order, to protect, etc., that sense of love for those in his charge, could… Read more »

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” A woman does not want to see a man’s idealization of her because she does not understand it. There is no empathy for it, because she does not possess it. She’s Not Like That.

Seeing it creeps her out.”

This right here is the Gospel Truth.

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@ dr. zipper Look at it like this, aside from all of the ” Strong Independent Woman ” b.s., and the ” Women are Equal to Men ” nonsense, a majority of women are naturally filled with self doubt. They aren’t truly capable of figuring themselves out. Introspection is never their strong suit. So they become master façade builders. And because most males will voluntarily play along, it works out well ( for them ). But when men ” Go off script ” ( in this case idealizing ), it rattles the shit out of them and makes them uncomfortable.… Read more »

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Hey people what do you wanna bet that stupid fucking statue is 60000 year old body positivism?

I didn’t like that fucking thing when I first saw it at 10 years of age, and I don’t like it NOW.

Notice how it doesn’t have a face either?

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“Women would rather be objectified than idealized.” And yet, strip away the idealization and . . . “wait a minute, I’m being objectified.” What? You thought that by saying “OK honey, if it will make you happy, I’ll play by your rules,” you could win? Silly boy. The point of women’s rules is for women to win. As soon as a man tries to play by them he just looks like a dumbass killing himself because he’s to stupid to know that guns have bullets in them. Now there’s an image for a woman to respect, eh? ” . .… Read more »

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“Hey people what do you wanna bet that stupid fucking statue is 60000 year old body positivism?”

You’re blowing it a bit out proportion. It’s only 30,000 years old.

“Notice how it doesn’t have a face either?”

First thing that popped into my head the first time I ran across a woman saying, “See, men have really always liked fat women” was:

Yeah, with her feet cut off and a bag over her head.

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thanks fellas, makes sense to me now

and Blax, your “self doubt that can work in a man’s favor” sounds like Dread would be an example of that, no?

if anyone has any anecdotes or specific other ways to make that self doubt work, please post them up

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“if anyone has any anecdotes or specific other ways to make that self doubt work, please post them up”

I’ll second that. Not sure how to play it.

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Yollo

Shifter knob or tap handle?

SFC Ton
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Self doubt? Tell it to shut the fuck up because you’re driving this here mother fucking train

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lol, Ton, I’m sure your answer would work anywhere, anytime, especially if *you* delivered it

if Dread works because of the doubt created in a woman about her ability to keep the man, what about other self doubts that Blax mentioned?

negs can viewed this way but those tend to be tailored to suit a particular woman (mention her makeup or large ass to agitate her anxieties) in that moment

what I’m thinking is that Dread is more universal… are there any other self doubts in the general nature of women that can be leveraged to the MI’s advantage?

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@DZ, applicable self doubts

That she is fungible
That she is past her prime and not ever going to get any better than she is when she woke up this morning
That anything that comprises her self identity may not be all that important to anyone
That you even notice her

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” negs can viewed this way but those tend to be tailored to suit a particular woman (mention her makeup or large ass to agitate her anxieties) in that moment ” Lol, ” large ass ” is a compliment in my circles. The makeup thing is a sure bet. Just the fact that a woman wears noticeable makeup gives a man an ” in “. They agonize over shades and color and application. Lol. ” hey, that shade of lipstick isn’t flattering on you ” will have them contemplating the rest of the day ( if they don’t downright change… Read more »

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“They doubt quite a bit.”

comment image

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excellent, Agent P (did you get your handle from Phineas & Ferb?) the doubt a woman has about her ability to keep the man is exploited by getting her to think she is easily replaced if she’s a bad girl (true or false doesn’t matter, it still induces Dread); a specific example might be dressing differently, hanging with friends more, openly flirting with other women, etc.; then her doubts will fill in the blanks to the man’s advantage what might be the tactic to take advantage of a woman’s fear of being past her prime? or any other of those… Read more »

kfg
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“what might be the tactic to take advantage of a woman’s fear of being past her prime?”

Don’t pretend you don’t notice that younger, hotter woman.

dr zipper
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fuck yeah, Blax, now that’s what I’m talking about!! (and I did have second thoughts on the large ass bit lol); I’ve used the makeup angle before but only to keep a bitch in her place, not to secure the lay, though they are closely related

@kfg, you hacked my phone pix! she was asking me which to use as a cum rag

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“They doubt quite a bit.” If you look around you’ll find many webpages where attractive young women will post pictures of themselves and lament how ugly they are, hugely magnifying all their flaws. Every tiny fold of fat, their small breasts – of course most men don’t care all that much about the breast size, provided they are firm. I guess this insecurity is commonplace among women. And then you’ll see posts from older ladies who say how they look at old pictures of themselves and wonder what they hell they were thinking when they thought they were ugly at… Read more »

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@Dr. Zipper: “she was asking me which to use as a cum rag”

Well what else is the one in your left good for? Please tell me your mother gave that to you.
The one in your right is too good looking for that, at least on a woman who actually has tits. Maybe you should just give it to your hot friend.

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@ dr. zipper I’ll share with you some unintended doubt/dread that I witnessed in my wife recently. I recently lost some weight. I did it because I was experiencing joint/shoulder issues, primarily from being unbalanced in muscularity. So I changed my diet and stopped lifting extremely heavy, laid off of pounding the heavy bag so much, and I’m slimming down greatly. Shoulder feels great. One of the side effects is that I actually look younger. Every female that comes into my home comments on the weight loss and looking younger. Right in front of the wife. Wifey took up lifting,… Read more »

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dr zipper
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good lord, kfg, now you’re just fuckin with me

re: your cum rag suggestions…

first one yes, just my style
second one no, unless I get some alcohol first

again, thanks Blax for the insights, good stuff

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…and said as she left the room ” Pfftttt… young bitches ain’t got nothing on me “. That window into her thoughts popped open for just a minute. And that’s all I needed. Dr. Zipper and Roused were asking for concrete examples of dread, but soft dread is a little more capricious and needs to come up less forced than a neg or backhanded complement. It has to be more organic. As in Blaximus’ report as well as in Rollo’s essay Soft Dread. What Mrs. Blaximus “experienced that morning was sort of de facto association of social proof ….in the… Read more »

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@Dr. Zipper: “good lord, kfg, now you’re just fuckin with me”

And it’s more fun when you help, but at least you get it. I don’t know which is worse, the person who takes it straight and literally, or the person who just gives me the blank stare of a pithed frog.

Sentient
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Blax Recently, within the past 3 or 4 months, she wants to kiss more, make out ,more, always slapping me on the ass and running her hands all over. The margin for “error” is slight when your girl is used to The Full Package ™. It doesn’t even register on you, because she is mostly going along with the flow… there is enough Alpha and attraction built up. Buuuuuut that little bit, that 2-5% that was off… It hits her hindbrain. it hits it. That was part of the old discussion we were having with Deep Conversion… the decay period.… Read more »

Blaximus
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@ Sentient ” The margin for “error” is slight when your girl is used to The Full Package ™. It doesn’t even register on you, because she is mostly going along with the flow… there is enough Alpha and attraction built up. Buuuuuut that little bit, that 2-5% that was off… It hits her hindbrain. it hits it. Hmmm… that makes a lot of sense. When I met wifey, years before we were dating, I was going full throttle at the gym. I think I weighed in at about 185 give or take, and I never measured my bodyfat %,… Read more »

FoX
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Feminists are tearing each other apart, right before our very eyes. This time it’s Skinnies v Fatties. As unplugged men, are we surprised? Not at all. It’s women’s nature to destroy, regardless of the harm it does them or others. So grab your popcorn gents, sit back and enjoy the show…

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/dear-mia-freedman-how-dare-you-20170614-gwqof9.html

Not Born This Morning
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Great post. As usual the picture is apt and rather funny. Those idols ultimately typically manifest themselves to be as grotesque as the statue. Boy, haven’t we made such statues in or minds in times past, but no more as long a we remember it is a slippery slope, a rabbit hole easily slipped down if discernment isn’t consistently practiced. “Alpha” is fragile as it must be regularly honed. We are each like a sharp edge that must be maintained if used. And lack of use will dull our edge just as surely as corrosion of a fine blade. And… Read more »

Culum Struan
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@Sentient @Blax – very interesting discussion on the 2-5%. Interesting to read about the effect of such minor changes to the baseline, *even if* things are otherwise going well. Now you guys were AF when you met your wives but presumably if some guy in a BP marriage goes up the scale and improves himself in a similar way that’s when strong Dread kicks off (like with the married guys who post here about turning their marriages around)? I’m speculating here but presumably that kind of 2-5% improvement/decay won’t be noticeable to the same extent in a BP marriage, because… Read more »

Agent P
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@CS a small percentage move like that may well be noticed in a BP marriage but it won’t carry the same effect as it does for Blax. An AFC may be improving himself but if’s he’s been a softy Beta for along while there’s no way he’ll sail into Alpha territory just by dropping a few pounds. It has to be the whole show, dominance, muscle mass, fun attitude, DPA and all of that before he will start to get any kind of traction. Otherwise it’s not congruent to a her that he is an Alpha. Thus it’s always easier… Read more »

Höllenhund
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The core tenet of MGTOW (at least from what I gleaned from /r/mgtow) is NOT rejecting sex, it is rejecting relationships.

If we discount prostitution, the majority of men are unable to get sex outside relationships. That’s the reality of the sexual marketplace. This isn’t meant as an argument against MGTOW.

anon01
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@kfg “Since the Trojan war has come up again, I’ll bring this up again: The war happened because three women were having a cat fight over which one of them was the prettiest, and found a man to blame for the consequences. Same as it ever was.” The story is so good every one can find in it what he likes. Women=”let you and him fight for me,” betas=”muh lady! I’m gonna save you and muh honor,” alphas=helen means torching ships in greek, getting dangerous sea territory and war spoils etc. @dr zipper “if anyone has any anecdotes or specific… Read more »

Lost Patrol
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See, this right here illustrates just how easily we can slip up. My attitude was ” In due time I’ll accomplish what I want physically “

This is why middle aged men particularly need to get a move on it as soon as they learn red pill truths. Waiting for a sunny day can drag on until nothing happens.

Definition of a middle aged man: He’s always thinking that in two weeks he will feel just as good as ever.

kfg
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“Feminists are tearing each other apart, right before our very eyes. This time it’s Skinnies v Fatties.”

Is it, really?

comment image

Shit gets complicated when the intersectionalists step into the arena of the Oppression Olympics. It has been claimed that the War on Obesity(tm) is just a hidden method of Institutional Racism(tm) by skinny, upper class white bitches against lower class Blacks and Hispanics.

SJB
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@anon01: The story is so good every one can find in it what he likes.

Indeed. I find the idealization of excellence very helpful. Rollo was clever to juxtapose idolization and idealization; the latter can be helpful while the former rarely so.

SJB
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@kfg: The War on Obesity is really opposition to mass migration.

Ba-dum-dum.

Blaximus
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I gotta check the stock price for Hagen Das and Frito Lay.

Onder
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I think women, particularly the older crowd on an intuitive level are starting to get afraid of men waking up to the realities of their true nature. So much so that their only solution now is to resort to ‘spirituality’ so as to try to get blue pill guys to give up on the ‘natural’ perspective and to instead, ‘look at the heart’ so as to better explain and rationalise the whole process and as a catch all to every screwed up situation. You’ve broken up? – “Your soul contract has expired” Your partner no longer loves you? – “You… Read more »

Boxcar
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@Limitless I agree that there is a biological/evolutionary drive towards oneitis (which Rollo disagrees with), even with average women. But men also have an innate desire to hold frame. It is just that modern society encourages the first set of behaviors, while discouraging the second. And of course the biological purpose of frame control (steady leadership in a dangerous wilderness envirinment) is largely gone. So men need to consciously choose to cultivate frame and other alpha traits. Past generations of men understood this, but feminists have ensured that the mainstream culture only encourage beta traits. And so we end up… Read more »

IAS
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@Rollo, Limitless and Boxcar:
I would say that the bio-evo drive for one-itis is not at all from the men side. At a species level it makes more sense that women evolved to be good at eliciting this kind of reaction. I don’t see bio-evo advantages from the male side to be susceptible to one-itis, there are plenty from the female side to eliciting it from men they aren’t even mating with.

rugby11
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Blaximus

Not Born This Morning
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I do not disagree with everything stated in the following current post at The New Modern Man: https://relampagofurioso.com However, there is a very fundamental misperception manifested by the commentary below the opening picture “Why play a game in which the house always wins?” That misperception, a most fundamental error is believing that the “house” is somthing it is not. This belief is a gross misconception because the “house” referred to is not the real house. It is an illusion. Women, the FI, etc. do not exclusively define the overarching universal reality, not even the universal reality about women. Men’s perceptions… Read more »

CSI
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“However, there is a very fundamental misperception manifested by the commentary below the opening picture “Why play a game in which the house always wins?”…”

You’ve lost me there a bit. I think the objective reality is that, in the field of sex and relationships, the average woman has more power than the average man. More power because she can enter new relationships and get sex easier. True, an alpha man would have more power here, but most men can’t be alphas. And woman have more power due to gynocentric laws.

Blaximus
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@ CSI Women do not really have more power. That’s like believing in fiat currency. Most people really do believe in something that doesn’t exist, and build entire economies upon a fairy tale…lol ( I will never get over that ). If anyone reading Rollo’s stuff has an epiphany, that should be the one to have. Women are exercising the false power afforded to them by men. Full Stop. Men can also enter into ” new relationships and get sex easier “. The first step is to realize that this is indeed the case. Men cede power. Men are taught… Read more »

Boxcar
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@Rollo, we argued about that in the past, but perhaps I misunderstood where you were coming from.

@IAS, think about how vulnerable a pregnant woman or a young child would be in a wilderness setting. In the environment we evolved to live in, there would have been a much greater advantage to commitment (for both the man and the woman) than there is today.

Boxcar
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@Blaximus

We often tend to describe frame and other alpha traits as being a burden. But even feminists see them for what they really are — liberation.

SHAKA LEONIDAS
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@Rollo “Most men, the largely 80% Beta majority, are conditioned to be serial monogamists. They are taught to identify with the feminine to the point that only what he believes women’s (old books) sexual prioritization should be is correct and valid for himself.” I feel like I’ve been conditioned to be a pawn in the game of serial monogamy Its definitely effective brainwashing by the FemImp to execute the AF/BB sexual strategy. I can say I’m on the AF side of the seesaw for what its worth but it feels like the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. WE(men) always end… Read more »

Oscar C.
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“Killing your idols” is coming to terms with what society is right now, and not what it might have been in the past. To me, this has been the easy part, making the Red Pill a logical continuation of my own thoughts. I have always been a bookish person, and very rational. At age 15 I knew: >I do not want to have children, ever. >Love does not exist. >Marriage is boring. Looking back, I marvel at how prescient I was. I read a lot of history and I guess that on a basic level I understood that monogamy was… Read more »

PaulProteus
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I’ve been MGTOW for years and even produced some content on youtube. Generally, the guys who are the angriest and the most hardline get the most views and get the most attention. This is, I think where the perception that the majority of MGTOW want nothing to do with women and are advocating for isolation comes from. Certainly there are men who feel that way in the throes of red pill rage but I don’t think that this attitude is realistic, helpful or healthy. I’d like the readers here to consider that the manosphere, including MGTOW, may be the first… Read more »

kfg
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@PaulProteus: “I’ve been MGTOW for years and even produced some content on youtube.”

I was never a commenter, but I have been a watcher. Good to see you ’round these parts.

“Generally, the guys who are the angriest and the most hardline get the most views and get the most attention. This is, I think where the perception that the majority of MGTOW want nothing to do with women and are advocating for isolation comes from.”

Whereas most MGTOW are pretty much invisible as such. They’re hunting, fishing, riding bikes and such, and participate in the those online communities.

Anonymous Reader
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Blaximus The makeup thing is a sure bet. Just the fact that a woman wears noticeable makeup gives a man an ” in “. They agonize over shades and color and application. Lol. ” hey, that shade of lipstick isn’t flattering on you ” will have them contemplating the rest of the day ( if they don’t downright change the lipstick ). They doubt quite a bit. They will not share this with you though. You have to watch for the signs. For the last few years I’ve been able to see this in the professional world all the time.… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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Now it’s trannies vs. the UMC women, up in Canada. UMC women losing their “women only spa” in Toronto. Basically some UMC women want to bring their “gay friend in a dress” to their spa, but since T’s have become the latest special snowflake group it can’t just end there.

http://news.nationalpost.com/toronto/women-only-full-nudity-spas-no-male-genitals-rule-ignites-transgender-debate

Is there a correlation between the under-30’s being more accepting of homosexuality AND the under 30 women being more hungry for masculinity? Yeah, I think that could be true.

Anonymous Reader
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Lost Patrol
Definition of a middle aged man: He’s always thinking that in two weeks he will feel just as good as ever.

Too true.

“I can get back into field condition any time, work’s just real hectic right now, but next month…”

“Someday” never comes around.

Anonymous Reader
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“Your soul contract has expired”

Gah.

Any woman starts talking about “soulmates”, get out. That goes double if she’s married.

SFC Ton
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Women do not really have more power. That’s like believing in fiat currency. Most people really do believe in something that doesn’t exist, and build entire economies upon a fairy tale…lol ( I will never get over that ). If anyone reading Rollo’s stuff has an epiphany, that should be the one to have. Women are exercising the false power afforded to them by men. Full Stop. Men can also enter into ” new relationships and get sex easier “. The first step is to realize that this is indeed the case. Men cede power. Men are taught to cede… Read more »

rugby11
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rugby11
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rugby11
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Mediated by female choice

Kaminsky
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“It has been claimed that the War on Obesity(tm) is just a hidden method of Institutional Racism(tm) by skinny, upper class white bitches against lower class Blacks and Hispanics.”

Well, hmm…Could be true. But it makes me wonder where the 119,000,000 fat white women in America fit into that equation. And the ‘skinny, upper class white bitches’ demographic is dwindling damned quickly anyway.

SFC Ton
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Most things are tribal clashes so it is possible the war on obesity is just that but upper class folks despise middle class and lower class Whites while they make excuses for non-Whites so I ain’t tracking the anti obesity stuff like that

anon
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“That’s like believing in fiat currency. Most people really do believe in something that doesn’t exist, and build entire economies upon a fairy tale…lol ( I will never get over that ).”

In the world of bread and circuses, sand for the arena can be more valuable than bread.

kfg
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“But it makes me wonder where the 119,000,000 fat white women in America fit into that equation.”

You answer your own question:

“”the ‘skinny, upper class white bitches’ demographic is dwindling damned quickly anyway.”

Remember that the chief goal of feminism is to make the SMV rejects into the hot girls.

SJF
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“…sand for the arena can be more valuable than bread.” Ask Teddy Roosevelt why a Man (in the Sand) In The Arena actually can be more valuable than actually eating bread (or pussy). A cultural touchstone of a speech. A call for doing, rather than merely desiring: “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives… Read more »

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