The Utility of Beta Men – Part II

Before I get started today I thought I’d relate a few things to think about from the first installment of this series.

No Neutral Balance

Reader Boxcar had a pertinent comment on last week’s thread:

Frankly, losing the “beta” qualities would make it difficult to live a happy, successful and fulfilling life. But they have become stigmatized because they are associated with men being used by women.

I used to lock horns about the necessity of Beta traits with Athol Kay on Married Man Sex Life back before women took over his messaging. The problem with this idea is that 80%+ of men in a feminine-primary social order, that has systematically engineered a majority of men to be predominantly Betas, possess all these Beta behavioral and psychological attributes in spades.

As such, there will always be a gross overemphasis on the value of those aspects. I don’t believe in a balance of Alpha to Beta traits. It’s my opinion that men should make Alpha traits their predominant, default set, only expressing Beta traits as necessary to maintain a minimum comfort level – and even then, this comfort level should only be apparent to reinforce a necessary anxiety level for a woman’s continued interest in a man.

Also, I believe there needs to be a distinction between Alpha and Beta behavioral sets and Alpha and Beta mindsets. Most men today are raised into a Beta mindset and this manifests in their behaviors. Vice versa for Alpha mindsets. However, that isn’t to say that a man of a predominantly Alpha mindset can’t deliberately display a Beta attribute in order to serve his own ends. Same with Beta men displaying a Alpha attributes. The problem with this lies in what is congruent with the overall perception of that man’s status to a woman.

In the case of the Australian guy whom Goldmund schooled in last week’s post, the woman already had a preconceived understanding that his mindset was that of a Beta. Had he displayed some brief “flash of Alpha” it would’ve seemed inauthentic and incongruous with her preconception. However, going from an Alpha preconception to a brief “flash of Beta” can be endearing and affirming for a woman.

Ergo, there is no neutral balance of Alpha and Beta that a woman will ever find attractive in a man. His mindset and behaviors must be predominantly and consistently Alpha to hold her Hypergamous sexual and relational interests. While occasional, strategic and brief expressions of a Beta-like trait are necessary for comfort, there is no advantage in a man trying to maintain some equilateral balance of Alpha to Beta, and if anything it only serves to confuse a woman about her estimate of your status. Moments of Vulnerability can be reassuring for women, but only when that vulnerability is uncharacteristic for a predominantly Alpha man.

Relational Equity

One very common hindbrain presumption most well-trained Betas have is a that their emotional, financial and loyalty investments in a woman will be appreciated and reciprocated by the women they invest in. This ‘pre’-sumption is integral to a mindset founded on the old books social contract. Beta men’s approach to intimacy going in already expects a woman to appreciate his investing in her as some quality that sets him apart from “typical guys who just want to bang her”.

So, when when a guy like Goldmund effortlessly seduces the woman that Aussie Guy has been investing so much into (like all-expense paid trips) it represent two very frustrating realities for him. The first, as I mentioned, is the destruction of his ego-investment in his old books mindset. The second is the sense of loss of so much relational investment he was trying to figure out how to get a return on. All of the preconditions he believed were necessary to get this woman’s intimacy are tossed out of the window when Goldmund arrives and she willingly and (to him) unconditionally becomes sexual with him.

He believed he had to earn her sex, but in no uncertain terms, along comes a guy who did almost nothing to earn it and she reflexively responds to him with sex. In prior posts I’ve proposed that women will break rules for Alpha men while creating and imposing new/more rules for Beta men to access her sexuality. I would expand this to say that Beta men will, via their preconditioning, impose those rules upon themselves before they even meet a woman with whom to invest themselves in.

The presumption of relational equity comes before a Beta even has a woman to invest in. This is the source of Aussie guy’s frustration. I covered this dynamic in Prewhipped and Betas in Waiting.

Giving Value

Commenter Trent Lane had an excellent insight about what ought or ought not to be a Red Pill aware man’s duty to his fellow, unenlightened Blue Pill man.

Ethic responsibilities in a red pill paradigm for those who are not in it is an interesting concept. If we all accept Red Pill principles like Hypergamy, AF/BB and so on as truth (which most of us do, since we‘re here) and as you advance in Game you see, know and can do more with social and intergender dynamics than 99% of the men around you.

You can use this for destruction and mayhem. You can use this to selfishly get your needs met with zero fucks given about anyone. Or you can use it to get your needs met AND give value to the people you interact with.

The question is, why should you?
The answer is, aside from metaphysical reasons like religion, Karma and so forth, in which you can chose to believe or not: you mainly do it for yourself.

By fucking others up this way you fuck yourself up. Is it possible to go down the route of destruction this way with zero fucks given about anyone and lead a happy, fulfilled life long term? Probably for some. More likely you‘ll end up fucked yourself, without purpose, unable to ever satisfy your raging narcissistic urges, burning out and getting more and more shallow as you chase the next kick.

Giving value makes you happier than taking value. It sounds corny like a cliche, but if long term happiness in life is your concern, it‘s true.

I’m going to jump off here because this comment speaks to what I want to cover next in this series – dealing with Blue Pill men in a Red Pill aware man’s life. Just as I’m inclined to tell guys of the MGTOW persuasion that there really is no exiting the game, so too is it next to impossible for the Red Pill aware man to insulate himself from having to deal with, work with, relate to, men who are thoroughly invested in a Blue Pill defined existence.

In the first part of this series I mentioned how Blue Pill orbiters are often an untapped resource of social proof for a Red Pill aware man. Sometimes all it takes to stand out in the crowd is to simply allow the mediocre to display their status and be ready to capitalize on it. It’s like the part of Game where once you get to attraction all you have to do is not fuck things up. That’s not to say Game doesn’t take effort, it does, but when you have a connection with a woman who herself has orbiters’ attention in spades it easy to see that her attraction cues and ego are built around quality not quantity.

I also mentioned in last week’s essay that actively AMOGing these guys can actually be counterproductive to Game. Women may not ever want to bang their orbiters or really have them mean anything more that easy attention, but on the same note they likely don’t want to have anything too cruel happen to them. Fortunately there are ‘lightest touch’ ways to use these guys’ inability (or willful rejection) to really embrace Red Pill awareness to your advantage if you have the art. There’s a tendency to want to help these orbiters, but I would say the real test is having the confidence to use them as SMV comparisons. Adopting an Amused Mastery with an orbiter is one such method – building social proof by artfully pointing out their Beta Game strategies. The risk you run is women taking this as arrogance on your part, at first, until that Beta confirms your measured analysis of him.

Betas at Work

One of the most arduous aspects of modern work life is having to cooperate with well-conditioned Blue Pill men. God forbid you have a business partner or a boss with whom your financial wellbeing depends. I would argue that the single most dangerous environment in which to attempt to ‘help’ a Blue Pill man with Red Pill awareness is in the workplace. For all the talk of mythical “glass ceilings” and back room boys clubs, modern corporate culture has been at the mercy of the Feminine Imperative’s influence for several decades now. This social environment was a Male Space that was invaded long ago by feminine-primary interests, but for the sake of this discussion I’d have readers consider the following: imagine a Blue Pill conditioned Beta who’s been educated and acculturated in feminine primacy (as equality) for the better part of his lifetime. Now, take that guy and put him into a workplace social structure, steeped in feminine-primary work laws, HR departments and corporate bylaws (all designed to avoid charges of endemic workplace sexism). Finally, base that man’s livelihood, the health of his marriage and the future wellbeing of his children on how well he adheres to that feminine-primary office culture and you get a guy who’s a veritable time bomb for any Red Pill aware coworker.

This reminds me of a great article in the Telegraph about how men are so afraid of sexual harassment accusations they resist the urge to extend the most basic courtesies to women in the workplace.

Elsesser cites examples of men who have been dragged in by their HR departments for simply opening a door for a female colleague or complimenting her on a new suit. “Stories like these spread around workplaces, instilling a fear that innocent remarks will be misinterpreted,” she says.

The upside to this situation is that a Red Pill savvy man can use the predictable foreknowledge of how a Blue Pill colleague will respond to various workplace circumstances to his advantage. While it may be prudent to accommodate that guy’s Blue Pill mindset at work, it also presents some opportunities to use Red Pill awareness and Game in a context that can advance your career. Female bosses are still female, and as noted earlier, the same dynamics you can use to ping social proof from a Blue Pill orbiter can similarly be used with a Blue Pill coworker and a female supervisor.

If you know a guy is trapped in a Blue Pill marriage, odds are he’s in a dead bedroom situation. If he’s got kids, especially a newborn, it’s fairly easy to predict his life priorities based on what we know of his Blue Pill mindset. Happy wife, happy life is probably his ego-investment. There’s quite a lot you can read from a Blue Pill coworker or supervisor, and as a Red Pill aware man, this puts you at a strategic advantage in the workplace. As such you are not at the disadvantage he is and can opt in on work opportunities his mindset and his life’s resultant conditions wont permit him to.

As a side note here, I should also mention that being Red Pill aware has various advantages in dealing with women in the workplace too. In the same vein as the Blue Pill supervisor, it’s important to get a ‘read’ on a female boss and how she interacts with male and female subordinates. Corporate culture is often the most visceral teacher when it comes to understanding intrasexual competition amongst women. However, as a Red Pill aware man we can also apply our predictive Red Pill Lens towards what most women in the workplace are experiencing in their lives. We know the common dissatisfaction professional women experience when it comes to their personal lives. We also know that even the married ones are likely to be discontent with husbands whom they can never feel comfortable in submitting themselves to – especially after 8-10 hours at an office where lesser men must submit to her and the greater men she is beholden to don’t see her as anything but an instrument for their own success. The trick is using this tactical understanding to your own benefit by getting inside their heads and making female nature work for you.

So, after all this we’re left with a few of considerations. The first is the degree of calculated risk a Red Pill man is comfortable in taking with a Blue Pill colleague. Even if the guy is a personal friend, there is always a risk that using your Red Pill Lens with him can backfire on you. There’s only one thing worse than a woman scorned and that’s a deeply committed Blue Pill guy who’s just had his mindset used against him by a superior player. Most will pass it off as the result of an unfair life, but others, the less stable Blue Pill guys, they can have an explosive potential.

Then there is the ever present ethical considerations that will always dog this question – should you do it? If Goldmund’s story from last week’s essay was an object lesson in mate poaching it was also a subjective lesson in the ethical consideration of it too. Much of what constitutes attractiveness in men to women is found on the Dark Triad personality traits. Sometimes Red Pill awareness and Game application gets called an education in psychopathy. Having written about Red Pill awareness for as long as I have, I know there’s far more to this, but to an initiated reader, one steeped in Blue Pill conditioning, I fully understand why it would look like psychopathy.

Now the question is, does a Red Pill man use his awareness to his advantage outside of the intersexual realm? In the case of using it with a female supervisor that might be an easy, yes, but in the case of using a Blue Pill man’s handicap of his mindset that answer may be subjective by order of degree. Even if there is no malice involved, and even if just by fact of having that awareness, a Red Pill man has a distinct advantage over men given to a Blue Pill belief set and their resultant life conditions.

So the question might be, are we our Beta brother’s keepers? Do we have an obligation to give Blue Pill men value or does that idea end where that man’s capacity to accept what Red Pill awareness offers him end? Obviously I have two books and five and a half years of blog posts all written with the intent of ultimately unplugging Blue Pill men and making them aware of the true nature of intersexual dynamism. My purpose has always been to give men the tools they need to do that, but is it my obligation to do so?

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

368 comments on “The Utility of Beta Men – Part II

  1. @Rollo

    “The risk you run is women taking this as arrogance on your part, at first, until that Beta confirms you measured analysis of him.”

    confirms *your* measured analysis of him.

    crucial conjunction.
    [Got it, thanks]

  2. Pro tip: Never help a beta male coworker. Keep redpill to yourself.

    Two interesting things if you wear the beta mask at work despite being redpill aware:-

    1. Beta males are totally oblivious and actually like you more than other beta men, despite you not involving yourself too much in their conversations and not hanging out with them on weekends (blech..)

    2. Women pick it up, no matter how much you hide it; It’s almost as if you’ve ‘not beta’ tattooed on your forehead. They always smile around you, are flirty. Touch you obliviously, despite the sexual harassment rules.

  3. As usual, outstanding analysis, particularly of the role of the Red Pill in the workplace, Rollo. And to answer the question, our dedication to spreading the news to our unfortunate brethren must be tempered with the understanding that it is largely a matter of timing. Few are ready to hear the unvarnished truth, unless they have been prepared by personal catastrophe (i.e. divorce) and face a psychological crisis. Even then, the tendency to lapse into Blue Pill perspectives after being faced with the awful Truth is all too common. One must exercise extreme caution, and only where the soil is prepared and fertile.

    While it’s sad, it’s also sadly predictable, particularly in the workplace. Unless you want to Red Knight or Black Knight, keeping a low profile and a cordial, remote attitude is recommended. In my experience the best promotion is by personal example. And no, I would not lose sleep over exploiting RP knowledge clandestinely in the workplace. Merely knowing the menstrual cycles of your female co-workers can provide a magic-like ability to navigate the jagged shoals of daily corporate life. Exploiting male dominance cues and amused mastery in the face of beta-dom can propel you magnificently forward, professionally speaking, if you are canny enough.

    Fairness is for women, and an illusion at that. Don’t be afraid to use your knowledge of the Red Pill to prosper. Sure, you might accumulate a few enemies, but if you have enough confidence and commitment to your own masculine course of action, your detractors will actually serve to improve your position.

    And, of course, you can always be gainfully self-employed, if things don’t work in your favor. That’s the best of all possible worlds, apart from being a gentleman of leisure. Nothing is more vindicating to a RP man than not having an official boss to answer to. And nothing makes your former BP colleagues more jealous and envious.

  4. A few points arising from this follow up.

    Yes Goldmund was alpha by banging he Aussie guy’s girl but the backlash he faces even from his friends is that he won’t be invited along to the nex dinner.

    Discretion is critical to this behaviour and an alpha trai.

    Secondly once you’ve adopted the Red Pill for me I’m constantly second guessing myself in any female interaction: should I have paid for drinks??? Is that beta!????

    I cooked dinner because I enjoy it…was I beta!???

    I texted her out of the blue and realized I sent a photo I’d previously sent …beta!????

    This may intact be a good thing because it keeps me vigilant. But at the same time it leads to some needless stress that blue pill guys don’t feel because they’re blisssfully naive.

    I’ve also turned down hot girls because I didn’t want to deal with the potential drama or wasn’t in the mood for handling a rejection: am I beta!??!

    Slowly I’m at the I don’t give a fuck what others think stage.

    I’m now seeing girls behaviours as normal. A girl flakes and it doesn’t really bother me…I have other stuff to do. Am I acting beta by not calling her out!???

    I blew up at her.. did I lower my value!???

    When you understand the criteria you almost become paranoid about behaviours because you know nothing happens by accident.

    One thing I am better at is dropping plates and potential plates who don’t respond in a timely manner. I take them at face value and see what possible benefit any interaction could have on me.

  5. I have become a firm believer that the only way people learn is through hitting rock bottom. Even then, there are no guarantees. Hell, the only way I discovered TRP and TRM was because BPD ex destroyed all my blue pill dreams. I wanted answers and I was finally open to more advice then ” Just be yourself. You are such a catch and will make some girl really happy one day”

    What is painful to watch is how your buddies treated you after the break up. Saying things like they knew she was a horrible person, girl like always has guys on the go. You start wondering why the fuck they didn’t tell you all this before ? No one even dared to mentioned that she is cheater. Funny thing is a friend’s GF straight up told him my ex and I would not last.

    I think it is essential for red pill man to look for men alike. You build your tribe. Anything goes and there is no filter. You don’t owe anything to anyone otherwise .

    Some peoples’ ego investments are too deep. If they can’t handle NMMNG, there is no way they can handle The Rational Male. I gave out the RM book to few buddies, some ultimately reject it, my Alpha friends get it. It helps them connect the dots, but it is mostly something that they already knew. The book starts off great convos with those that actually get it, because it just helps them to connect the dots.

  6. Is it your obligation to unplug a blue pill man? From a Christian point of view we have two things in tension with each other: on the one hand, we have the story of the good Samaritan, who saw a man beaten to a pulp, bloody, lying in a ditch. He stopped and helped. On the other hand, Jesus outright said, “do not throw your pearls before swine”. Why? Because they would turn around and rip you to shreds. This sounds exactly like the ticking time bomb that is the disappointed blue pill guy. Abuse blue pill men? No. Unplug them? Only if they show that they are ready for it.

  7. I have just been invited to join a private “men’s FB group” out here in south-eastern Australia where i live. I am also gearing up to drop my blog for middle-aged men called, ‘The Solitary Silver FoX’ which i’ll be dropping over the neXt month or so. Will keep y’all posted. The first thing i did with the men’s group was refer them here, starting with The Best Of Year One…So i think we need to enlighten our brothers, but not to be too attached to the outcome, as with anything…

  8. The problem is that women hold all of the cards when it comes to sexual access. In our closest relatives, chimps, male on male violence increases as female promiscuity increases and so does the sexual coercion of females by males.

    And believe it or not, rape and sexual coercion was how men procreated for centuries. As society became civilized, we came up with better ways to control female sexuality without resorting to rape, be it through religion, social norms, arranged marriage etc.

    Now that the inmates run the asylum, men have no idea how to get their basic needs met. The only thing a man can do is to try to appease the woman in hopes she’ll grant him sexual access. Add to that, nothing he does for her guarantees anything. As he is told “a woman doesn’t owe you sex no matter what ”

    Give her down payment on a house, save her bastard kids from drowning, take a bullet for her. Doesn’t matter , she doesn’t owe you sex.

  9. This is probably one of the darkest and coolest posts you’ve written in a while, Rollo.
    1. Should you help men? Yes. I seriously believe certain men are here to teach, and you are one of them.
    2. Should we help or use BP men? I think it’s more of a cost/benefit analysis for each man to make for his particular situation at that particular time. Just because you got a loaded gun doesn’t necessarily mean you should pull the trigger.

  10. Arguably (based on my understanding of Jack Donovan’s “The Way of Men” and “Becoming a Barbarian”), the only men to whom you owe anything akin to an obligation is your “gang”, your own honour group to whom you have obliged yourself.

    Any other man… anything you do for them is a charitable act. If doing so is contrary to your best interests, you are being foolish.

  11. “You can use this for destruction and mayhem. You can use this to selfishly get your needs met with zero fucks given about anyone. Or you can use it to get your needs met AND give value to the people you interact with.”

    “Giving value makes you happier than taking value. It sounds corny like a cliche, but if long term happiness in life is your concern, it‘s true.”

    People who say they care, rarely ever do. It’s akin to a societal strategy for weak men to moralise to like minded men. Thereby casting doubt in an individual’s mind, as to how they live their lives. Which in turn lowers their resolve and from which they can be dominated.

    I was that giving value person. I spent a lot of time and money being that person. So allow me to speak from experience and tell you, that man is a worthless cretin. Despised and reviled by all who know him. Especially those he helped.

    If killing your beta means anything to me, it means the utter, absence of compunction.

    And that’s where happiness lies.

  12. Wanting to share the RP truths seems to be one of the first go-to reactions after unplugging – the “guys, this is so cool, it helped me understand everything, check it out!” kind of way.

    It is also probably the first real-close experience with blue pill indoctrination – when some of your life-long buddies outright reject your findings that are often based in your own practical experiences (ranging from “Well, maybe it works for YOU with these LOW QUALITY girls! Nuh-uh, NAWALT!” and “Man, you used to be normal, these things changed you”, to more extreme rejections).

    Unplugging may be the most extreme (with the most ego-investment involved), but not the only example of “help” that is often rejected by subjects that need it the most.

    I’m speaking from personal experience, but there seems to be quite a lot of anectodal evidence on how relationships change when one starts to earn more money – if you started in somewhat lower economical position, and grew out of it to a higher income strata, it is likely that you’ve had childhood/older friends who are still in the same lower bracket.

    Initially, one wants to help his childhood buddies to make more money themselves. But then, sooner or later comes a point where you have to cut them out of your life, because they are dragging you down (sometimes, they pull out of their lower bracket and race you to the top. Sometimes, someone overtakes you and cuts you off. Sometimes, you manage a fine balance by not ever discussing financial status, and enjoying friendship with your different positions in life. We’re not talking about these situations). They make the wrong choices, they discard your well thought advice, and seem to always have trouble with repaying any loans you gave them.

    You’re working hard on your secondary business, and they just want you to chill with them and smoke a joint or watch a sports game. When you see them, the same phrase comes up “Man, you’ve changed”.

    They start to dislike you. You STARTED at same spot as they did, you were just like them, and then you ceased to be a loser. This means that they too, can not be losers any more. And what hurts ego more than holding a mirror to someones face and letting them know that they are where because of their own choices. You just took away their excuses.

    They don’t want to do the work, they just want the results, without changing themselves. It is easier for blue-piller to waste months of time pining over a girl, just like it is easier for a person to take a loan for an item he cannot afford, and get stuck repaying the debt forever. Because they’d have to change “who they are” otherwise.

    I believe it was heartiste who coined the phrase – “Sexual market is like any other market, it’s just that we all pretend it is not”, or some-such. Red pill, even though we’d like to ascribe certain special status to it, is probably not that special – same dynamics can be found in different aspects of life, and we could draw a lot of parallels between them. Hence, we can look into what works somewhere else, and port that to here.

    A sign of maturity in red pill seems a nonchalant attitude towards blue pill indoctrinated men – drop them a nugget or two, see if they have the potential, otherwise don’t waste your time with them, similar to how people who have made a fortune very quickly shift through other people and discard chaff from wheat. The degree of help (investment) differs from person to person, but it seems that this help is only available to people who have shown potential and are willing to learn.

    And this is for those that WANT to help others.

    I assume that Rollo would not write The Rational Male if it did not give him some sort of satisfaction / fulfillment (maybe I’m wrong?). Some people go fishing as a hobby, some people write books as a hobby, some people help others as a hobby.

    There is no “obligation” to help blue pilled people from anyone else, just like there is no obligation for “those who love fishing to teach everyone else how to fish”. We may *want* to help blue pillers, but that doesn’t mean they want our help, or that it would be appreciated.

    And if we do want to help, it is something we have decided ourselves, not an intrinsic requirement of the red pill. This is a discussion on morality, whilst the Red Pill is an amoral praxeology. You cannot conflate these two.

  13. I don’t generally try to unplug blue pill co workers, but I can’t help dropping red pill truths into conversations when they start talking Disney idealistic shit around me.

    I work freelance on film/tv productions occasionally, about 2 years ago I bumped into a guy I hadn’t seen for about 3 years and he excitedly tells me ” oh I haven’t seen you I just got married!” Like this is some sort of achievement and not a capitulation.

    Meet Simon he’s a 47 year old BP nice guy, very friendly and easy going, tall , slim full head of hair,
    owns a nice house drives a nice Mercedes and is solvent as has never been married/ no kids out of wedlock, basically a post Wall woman’s beta provider wet dream!

    “Yea he continued, finally done it! I’ve been engaged before but just never quite managed to get over the finish line!”.

    “Congratulations! How old is she?” I asked ” she’s 49 he replied”
    I couldn’t believe it! I was expecting him to say like 32 to 35 but 49??

    “Why did you do that? I asked. ” what do you mean?” Came back the predictable reply.

    I said “would you go into the supermarket and buy a pint of milk with an expiry date of today ( the ones they put at the front of the shelf hoping some lazy sucker will buy it) or do you get one from the back of the freezer that has more life in it? ”

    He looked at me confused.

    I said you do realise that the average age of menopause onset in the U.K. Is 51? So most likely within a couple of years your new bride will turn into a hormonal psychopath , she will hate you, blame you for everything and her pussy will be drier than the Sahara?

    He didn’t say anything he just went quiet and stood there looking at his shoes!

    I later found out she had two kids an older girl who had left home and a 17 year old son who has behavioural issues and who hates him despite his best efforts to bond with him.

    Man some men really do need help but I got there too late. I’ve not seen him since but can only imagine the state of his marriage now, last I heard he’d took on over £100k of debt to extend and improve his house to her liking!

    Betas going to beta but shit man he went all in on a used up 49 year old piece of ass! The thirst is very real for some guys I guess?

    I wish I’d got to him sooner, but could I have made him listen? Probably not, but I would have tried.

  14. A man should use all aspects of knowledge base and skill set to improve his lot in life. Red Pill knowledge and your game skill set is no different

    Doing otherwise is self limiting and frankly stupid as fuck. Who the hell wants to be limited in their success and enjoyment in life? I mean I get men having the various religious beliefs that limit and guide behavior but most of what people call ethical deliemas aren’t

  15. I’m of two minds about helping other men see RP truths. In most cases, my criteria for giving advice are: 1) Do they want advice; 2) Do they need advice; and 3) Did they ask for advice. Improving one’s self is usually the best way to go, as few things are more persuasive to others than results.

    But exceptions need to be made sometimes, depending on who it is and what the situation is. Too many men don’t have other men in their lives who will pull them aside and tell them the truth when they need it most.

    And it’s not always necessary to tell BP men the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. A well-timed question or observation may do the trick. If the BP man takes the bait and wants to know where you’re coming from, all you have to do is to say, “Well, buying her flowers and spending all your weekends on her ‘honey-do’ list doesn’t seem to be working very well. Maybe you should roll up the red carpet for a few months and go play golf with the guys.”

    BP guy: “Yeah, but blah blah blah…”

    You: “Yeah, it might get worse before it gets better. But if flowers and knocking yourself out on the honey-do list hasn’t caused panties to drop in the last 6 months, tomorrow probably won’t be any different. So, you can be miserable doing more of the same or you can try shaking things up.”

    BP guy: “Yeah, but blah blah blah…”

    You: “It’s up to you dude.”

    It doesn’t have to be an either-or type of thing where you tell them about the RP or you don’t. Just creating the discomfort may be enough to get them on the right track.

  16. @Ian good to see you posting. I agree unplugging is a tricky business. When people gave me advice (that was red pill, even though they didn’t have a label for it), I shrugged it off as “asshole tactics.” Not until I read the Relationship Game Week post at Heartiste did I break through my own buffers to see the light:

    As for giving men advice, Ian, Have you ever read the book called Fish!? It teaches morale boosting and team building through parables. I believe someone could write a game book in this fashion.

  17. ” It teaches morale boosting and team building through parables. “

    Strangely, I just read the following about five minutes ago and thought it salient enough to copy and save. Thought it summed up the RP pretty aptly (though RP wasn’t the topic).

    “The solution is: stop treating life as a series of moral parables. Once you get that, it all just becomes evidence – “

    There must be a moral in there somewhere….

  18. @anon, we learn through stories, and parables have a way of sidelining our buffers long enough for the message to sink in. I’d love to see Ian take a run at this.

  19. ” . . . parables have a way of sidelining our buffers long enough for the message to sink in.”

    He never did find a pony.

  20. I had an interesting revelation in regard to the assessment of my ‘betaness’ vs. ‘ my ‘alphaness’. I would be constantly second guessing myself, is that alpha? Is that beta? Etc. Etc. However, the personal answer I ‘ve found was to reinterpret these question as a form of self-respect, after every interaction i would ask myself am I respecting my own choices?

    Surprisingly, this did not only work with women but also with men. In the sense if I would meet someone who was responsive to red pill knowledge and I could engage a respectful conversation I did. Meanwhile if the conversation was filled with snarky comments (i.e. disrespect) than I already knew there is no point in engaging.

    Recently, I also put together what keeps the hypergamous doubts of the women I see in check. It’s not necessarily all the things that I do, but rather how much the men in my life respect me (friends, co-workers, etc.). Furthermore, I enjoy engaging in discussions and helping my friends, creating a positive feedback loop. Thereby, the mark of ‘alphabets is how you treat other men, as friends, brothers or enemies and which these are always depends on the context.

  21. In my workplace, I mostly work with women as peers (my entire group is female other than for me!), but have lots of contact with other guys in the organization — most of them are beta or greater beta. I will drop in RP tidbits here and there in relevant conversations and see what the reaction is before going much further — my experience is that most either don’t get it, or don’t want to get it, so I don’t go further. A couple have been more interested, but still seem to be held back by various preconceptions in their lives or perhaps fears. I haven’t come across one of them that has unplugged yet, at least not in any visible way.

    TRP and Game are very useful when you are ensconced in a group of female co-workers, however. Not in the form of active seduction obviously (I think that’s almost always a bad move in the workplace), but just in interaction. The vibes of amused mastery, slightly aloof but with good humor, work very well in a group of women coworkers, even women supervisors. Women enjoy interacting with RP men for the most part — they enjoy it, it makes their day easier on them. Women will work well with beta men, too, but in my experience they either (1) like them, and are “friends” with them, but see them as kind of women-with-penises or (2) don’t like them (this is usually the more bitter or fearful type of lesser beta or lower) and talk about then behind their backs, especially to guys like me. Upshot: RP and Game are ALWAYS useful with women in ALL situations, not just seduction situations. Women simply prefer men who are like this in all contexts and will react very differently to us.

  22. Point:

    “In looking to the future, there is one important inquiry which the young should put to their own hearts:—What do I most desire to become in mature life? What position am I anxious to occupy in society? What is the estimation in which I wish to be held by those within the circle of my acquaintance?

    The answer to these inquiries, from the great mass of young people, can well be anticipated. There are none among them who desire to be disrespected and shunned by the wise and good—who are anxious to be covered with disgrace and infamy—who seek to be outcasts and vagabonds in the world. The thought that they were doomed to such a condition, would fill them with alarm. Every discreet youth will exclaim—”Nothing would gratify me more than to be honored and respected, as I advance in years; to move in good society; to have people seek my company, rather than shun it; to be looked up to as an example for others to imitate, and to enjoy the confidence of all around me.”” –John Mather Austin


    “I’m mad enough to believe in romance. And I’m sick and tired of this age — tired of the miserable little mildewed things that people racked their brains about, and wrote books about, and called life. I wanted something more elementary and honest — battle, murder, sudden death, with plenty of good beer and damsels in distress, and a complete callousness about blipping the ungodly over the beezer. It mayn’t be life as we know it, but it ought to be.”

    –Leslie Charteris

  23. @ Sundawner:

    “What is painful to watch is how your buddies treated you after the break up. Saying things like they knew she was a horrible person, girl like always has guys on the go. You start wondering why the fuck they didn’t tell you all this before ? No one even dared to mentioned that she is cheater. Funny thing is a friend’s GF straight up told him my ex and I would not last.”

    The answer to your question of why your friends didn’t tell you is in the very next post from Mycroft Jones:

    “Abuse blue pill men? No. Unplug them? Only if they show that they are ready for it.”

    Your friends didn’t tell you because you weren’t ready to hear what they had to say about your ex. You weren’t in a position to hear or receive what they said. If they had told you then what you know now, you would not have believed them. You would not have listened to them. You would have rejected it out of hand. Because, you thought, women just arent’ like that. Women just don’t act like that. Women are good, pure, noble, kind, selfless and honest. Women just don’t lie about things, and they especially don’t lie about love, relationships, and sex.

    You know now, though.

  24. Red Pill Good Samaritanism should only be applied when a man is ready for it…helpless, wounded, and bleeding in a ditch by the side of the road. He has been frivorced by his whale of an ex-wife or has been cucked in his own house by a girlfriend screwing a junkie in his bed while he’s watching a vid in the living room.

  25. @wala

    Yes Goldmund was alpha by banging he Aussie guy’s girl but the backlash he faces even from his friends is that he won’t be invited along to the nex dinner.

    ONE friend invited G…maybe the inviter friend was also drunk and won’t remember shit or maybe G will use the drunk defense to smooth things over.

    Discretion is critical to this behaviour and an alpha trai.

    Cosign, especially for your social circle.

    Secondly once you’ve adopted the Red Pill for me I’m constantly second guessing myself in any female interaction

    You’re at the conscious competence stage of Game…it’s Ok.


    The problem is that women hold all of the cards when it comes to sexual access.

    only with regard to betas


    What is painful to watch is how your buddies treated you after the break up.

    after reading @deti ‘s comment, do you understand that there was no other option


    I was that giving value person. I spent a lot of time and money being that person. So allow me to speak from experience and tell you, that man is a worthless cretin. Despised and reviled by all who know him. Especially those he helped.

    alphas give value but don’t care about the opinion of others…if you give value in order to be respected, that is despicable and weak-framed


    There must be a moral in there somewhere….

    don’t live life bass-ackwards

  26. @Rollo Tomassi

    To the question of “are we our Beta brother’s keepers?” I think that it comes down to weighing 2 major factors: 1) Is it good for Red Pill self-interest? 2) Is it in the best interest for greater society as a whole?

    1) For the Red Pill aware, especially those that are new to it, the tool set and lens offers the keys to unlocking many rewards and perks that the human experience has to offer. In a natural sense (especially with the Dark Triad) it becomes more about survival of the fittest, and to the fit go the spoils. When we look at natural ecosystems, we see apex predators, tertiary predators, secondary consumers, primary consumers, producers and decomposers. Yet often when we look at humans we remove ourselves from this model because somehow we view ourselves as “different,” though with societal hierarchy we follow the same pattern. In the Red Pill context, the flow chart looks something like this: (to see my full in depth article

    Apex Predators – Red Pill Alpha Males (top 10%)
    Tertiary Predators – Red Pill Lesser Alpha Males (next 10%)
    Secondary Consumers – Alpha Females (top 10%)
    Primary Consumers – Other Females (other 90%)
    Producers – Blue Pill Beta Men (other 80%)
    Decomposers – MGTOW (small percentage)

    Now this chart is not about the inherent societal value or self worth of any group…this cart is about access to intersexual mate selection. As we all know, the top 10% of Men basically have their pick of the pie, no one has more access than the do (and plenty of you can read why on many blogs out there). Lesser Alphas with Red Pill awareness (the next 10%) don’t have as much natural access as the top tier Alphas do, but they still enjoy a very broad range of access to options. Only when faced head to head with a direct top tier Alpha does the discrepancy in options become apparent. An example of this would be someone like Tom Cruise, who is a pretty natural Alpha and for this example let’s assume he’s Red Pill, the fact that he has fame and status makes him top tier. So many lesser Alphas, like Roush or Mystery would not b able to compete as well in direct comparison. It’s not a reflection of their ability or worth, it’s a reflection of “fame is the ultimate game” vs pure Red Pill knowledge. Not to say those guys couldn’t pull a target away from the celebrity, but the odds are heavily stacked against them.

    Secondary Consumers are Alpha females, which are women like models and certain actresses, they know they are at the top of the female hierarchy and knowingly exploit this. They can have access to many an Alpha as well as any Beta, but the Betas are put on hold for when their status diminishes over time. Primary Consumers are the rest of the sisterhood which have varying degrees of access to Alphas but have a lot more interaction and selection from the Producers (the rest of Beta kind). The Producers are 80% of the male population which is Beta and their access and options are the most limited. The decomposers are the MGTOW segment, these are men that are Red Pill Aware yet have consciously removed themselves from the dating market. While this still doesn’t remove them from the ecosystem, they are neither predator nor prey.

    So with this in mind, should not the Apex Alphas enjoy the spoils of their status? The motivation to invite more potential competition creates a bit of a paradoxical situation: Being selfish in a sense brings access to sexual dominance with little competition, but being altruistic invites more potential competition while going against the selfish nature that got you to the successful point you’re enjoying today. For a Red Pill Alpha this is not a compelling case.

    2) Is it in society’s best interest as a whole? Does equipping Blue Pill men with tools to turn them Red Pill work for society as a whole? A huge concern is what you covered masterfully in your post Children With Dynamite. Can we trust the greater male population with such knowledge and tools and hope they have the discipline to exercise those tools wisely? Many of the early PUA’s proved to be cautionary tales so taking that to a large scale could have disastrous potential. On the other hand, many men suffer under the Blue Pill and Red Pill awareness can bring relief and understanding to that suffering. It can be a great tool to improve the lives of men and women as well.

    I think the answer is that the Red Pill knowledge has to be treated like a healing village in the mountains of Tibet. For those who truly seek to learn they will make the trek to find it and from there can return into the world anew. But as you’ve stated before, unplugging men from the Blue Pill is very dirty work…it’s never clean, there is a lot of mess, and to use a Matrix example many are Agents in disguise that will turn and defend the system at all costs.

    In conclusion, I think that no, Red Pill aware men have no obligation to help their Blue Pill brothers out. To each their own and survival of the fittest. However, those that are Red Pill aware and decide to help their Blue Pill brothers out are doing a grate service for society and their fellow man. It’s the fact they they don’t have to do it but choose to do it that makes those actions that much more meaningful and impactful. But also know that it’s a lot like parenting: It’s thankless, you’re going to have to put up with a lot of shit (figuratively and literally) and you aren’t going to see the fruits of your labor for a long time to come. But when you do, only you will know if it’s been worth while or not.

  27. First rule of being a lifeguard, don’t get in the water with a drowning man who is still conscious, because he’ll drag you down and kill the both of you. Throw him a rope, try to calm him down, but don’t get in there with him.

    I am with most of you here. You can drop pearls of wisdom here and there to see who takes the bait. You can see who “sees” what you do in certain situations and see if there is a possibility for a kind of RP rapport. You cannot just drop RP left and right like bombs and expect any good results except perhaps with the women in the room. The ego invested BP will reflexively defend their reality and reject RP.

    i find its good to be able to lob out some low key RP red herrings that can be explained away easily if required but will more importantly get White Knight’s to show their colors. You want to know who the WK’s are in any social group. They are the liability (Whiny bitch).

    Men must be destroyed and have all their illusions shattered before they are ready to be remade as men. My hope is that they don’t come to serious physical harm in the process. The psychological harm is simply a kind of resistance training that can break them or make them harder and ready to grow. If a man is truly broken, I might bend down and help him in his time of need, but even then, he’s drowning…..

    Re: Relational equity, why has nobody brought up Briffault’s law yet? Same applies to Aussie chode as well.

    Re: obligation to anybody else? Ahh, no, I don’t think so. One of the first things I learned when I unplugged was that it was OK to look after me. I had been going from pillar to post trying to look after everyone around me and expecting in a passive aggressive, covert contract kind of way, that it should entitle me to some things. Which was wrong.

    So once I changed things to my own MPO, looking after me first became a priority. Get in shape for my own sake, get nice clothes because I want them and so on. After some bumps in the road the world started to better align around me. Once I started looking after myself and my interests, it became easier to look after other people if I chose to. I ended up adding more value to those around me by being what most BP guys would call being selfish.

    One major exception to the obligation to anybody else to school them on RP, would be my son. I made the choice to bring him into the world and to raise him up into an adult. But more than that I want to raise him into a man. That’s never going to happen without RP, implicit, explicit or otherwise. Personally if I knew a father had serious RP knowledge and failed to pass that to his son, it would almost be cruel of the father. My son gets the automatic RP treatment as he is my personal interest and investment. He will still have to suffer pain and hardship in the sexual marketplace to be able to understand the broader picture but hopefully armed with RP knowledge he can spare himself the worst of the BP humiliations and other depradations that are so abundant for so many men in the SMP.

    I think that once you have fatherhood sorted out, its a lot easier to consider mentoring men on RP. You need to understand socratic method as well to be able to draw a man into in a way that is safe to them in a fragile state.

    Or we could all just watch “crazy stupid love” and debate the actions of the PUA. Same thing really.

  28. “Personally if I knew a father had serious RP knowledge and failed to pass that to his son, it would almost be cruel of the father. ”

    I’m with you there 100%. An RP aware father has an obligation to teach his son (and his daughter) the truth. Failure to do so is parental malpractice.

  29. Wala

    You are at the stage where you are trying to make a language – Game – an ethos… A raison d’etre.

    Time to move forward. Embrace your value… Move on to the supra Game state and start to live a Dynamic, Passionate and Authentic life. Use game merely as a language and ro understand what is being said.

  30. Generally one should analyze their actions in the context of a cost benefit ratio. In the case of Goldmund, it may have been smarter to retain his standing in the social group for increased future value instead of cashing in his chips for 20 minute pussy. The same can be said when dealing with beta men throughout life. You have to decide when mingling with one will pay dividends for you in the form of implied value in the future so you have to get along with whomever is advantageous to do so be it alpha or beta. I don’t believe in going out of your way to help every beta male though.

  31. @Sentient

    There is a fear of regressing or backsliding.

    Each time I text a girl and she doesn’t reply within a minute I’m thinking “am I bleeding value?!!”

    The problem with adopting the Red Pill and recognising beta behaviour is that you can’t Unsee it.

    Every movie every commercial…every time a guy In the office speaks I start analysing it.

    There are betas behind every bush…

    I’m starting to relax. I certainly don’t have anything to prove. Plates drop.

    I’m approaching that higher plain of inderstnsding…but it’s still frustrating.

    its like I can now predict with reasonable certainty when a girl will get in touch and what she’ll say…when she doesn’t I start to worry I’m losing my edge…

    Because I was that guy in the original post…and don’t ever want to go back to that.

  32. I usually do not help men on these issues because very often they use what you told them against you. They talk about what you said on your back and try to ostracize you from a group. I feel it is better to teach by example. Also, in the case of Goldmund, unless that girl is with your boss I say fuck it. There is always competition amongst men and don’t ever think for a moment the other guy would not do that to you if he could. Once the girl stated she is not with him is more than fair game. Could it be dangerous? Yes, of course. Here you have to assess the situation and take a good measure of the guy and if he is coming alone, is he heavy drinking, etc.

  33. I don’t owe any body anything. But what is freely given can be freely shared. A small redpill nugget of information a maxim to a struggling blue pill guy can save his life, his marriage. A word of encouragement can go a long way even if they lack understanding of the whole FI. ROLLO he does not charge anything for this blog and practically gives his books away free. Why then should I be opportunistic when sharing this insights. I have a question for commenters my son has moved in with me and brings with him a whole crew of 14 and 15 year old boys that are useing my weight room about 3 nites a week. I’m thinking about painting pooks 16 rule of poon on the walls along with some 50 SOR maxims and few proverbs from the Bible. A part of me wants to help these kids be more aware of what female nature is. Then there is another part me that says let um get crushed and destroyed. It’s far cheaper to learn hard lessons at 17 or 19 dealing with females than at 35 when it cost you child support alimony half your life saving rental property’s and investment. I don’t know if sharing a little red pill knowledge with that age group is smart or stupid ?

  34. Jesus said, he that hath an ear, let him hear. Jesus also said, cast not your pearls before swine. It seems to me, the implication is that people who lack ears should not be expected to hear, and some people are swine who don’t want to hear. I’d say that in general we owe the truth to all people, but prudence dictates that the painful truths be handled with delicacy and discretion. It is my experience that the deeper the truth the less I’m able to discuss it with anyone.

  35. @Wala: you are well beyond my skill level but it appears you have some particular mindset challenges which sometimes one can glimpse in some of your FRs.

    Accept your past for what it is, the past.
    Let go of the fear… The fear of regressing, the fear of being judged a beta.

  36. “It is my experience that the deeper the truth the less I’m able to discuss it with anyone.”
    Always lose people in my circle and story if i am too truthful about my life and experiences. People seem to not want the “truth” just a version of its interpretation. Also listen to what the person your dealing with is going through and gage in that moment. The context of the truth is something that you think through and express with that person alone. But some people are angry and violent with leavening their mindset for a new one.

  37. “I usually do not help men on these issues because very often they use what you told them against you. They talk about what you said on your back and try to ostracize you from a group.

    Now let’s see, where have I seen that sort of thing before. I seem to recall it goes so far as to be a marker behavior, indicative of membership in a particular group.

    Oh. Yes, I’ve got it now . . . the Women’s Circle.

  38. Of course we should help our fellow men…unpllug them, teach them, help them, we were all once there. Fuck bitches, bros before hoes, its the only thing that can get us out of this feminine doctrine…help the ones you can, leave the rest in the pit of feminine mindset

  39. @Keith, it’s your gym. Post it up and give us updates. Those boys will tell their mothers, and I wouldn’t be surprised if you don’t get more accidental run-ins with these ladies. lol!

  40. As the “crazy old uncle”, I’ve tried to instill red pill values in my nephews and their friends, but I’ve only had one nephew listen. I have found that for the most part, there is no helping beta males until they are destroyed by an americunt. And even then most fall back into their beta traits. In fact the thought that their paramour is not sinless is unthinkable, exposing women’s true nature makes most betas very angry. Reprogramming is hard.

  41. women wouldn’t want anything too cruel to happen to an orbiter if it meant he’d give up on being an orbiter. Aussie guy was probably somebody aussie girl felt would still be an orbiter after “the talk” when they got back to aussie land about “love you like a brother, but…”. And it’d have to include going over she didn’t ask him to pay for the trip and so on, and so on.

  42. To help or not help. The moral question has risen into view because the waters of patriarchal community have receded, giving way to a barren landscape of atomized individuals pursuing personal (but not often rational self-interest) paths through the obfuscated and perverted truths that are systemic within a feminine primacy.

    In general, beta men seek refuge (safety over success) from the dissonance of the inverted truths and alpha men seek fortune (success over safety) enabled by the hamstrung men (dwindling relative competition) and the reality that the truth cannot be destroyed (they “just get it”.)

    Said another way, this is the notion that ‘betas self-impose rules while alphas break rules’. This has likely always been the case in some way or the other. But what has changed is that the overarching “rules” of engagement have been co-opted by the feminine, ripped from their roots in natural law, and repackaged as a facade that plays on the beta impulses to provide and protect while enabling (the ever-shrinking population of) alpha men to continue to use the rear entrance because they know the passwords.

    So instead of men competing among men, to display, and women competing among women for the chance to select, we get women and men competing with each other, with a labyrinth of rules that demand beta compliance with an increasingly absurd velvet rope lined entrance into the arena. What blue pill men fail to recognize is that the competition is already over.

    Instead of rules among men we now have rules FOR men, handed down by the FI. The result is that beta men now must not only navigate the natural laws, the rules that remain among men, but also subject themselves to rules made by women.

    Because beta men seek safety (approval for compliance with the rules) they will effort to adopt the rules of the facade preemptively. This is how they (falsely) believe they will get to the front of the line; patiently work to be a “good man” to be eventually noticed and duly rewarded – the FI rules of engagement.

    When boys became men under the tutelage of other men and were allowed to matriculate into a community alongside other men, in competition and fellowship, the the moral questions were just “lived.” The rules are clear, if even unconscious, in part because there is congruence between the social and the natural.

    When these bifurcated and became purview of women, many of the natural bonds between men were not just severed, but preempted and re-ordered according to the velvet ropes. But the truth, the natural, was not eliminated, just hidden. Thus, the “two sets of books” began.

    Competition is natural. Hierarchy based on competition is natural. Men are predisposed to enter into the arena of life and assume their place among other men. The moral questions are there, but they are part of something greater – the fellowship of men that maintains the architecture of community.

    Under the old books, rational self-interest and striving for success were encapsulated within something greater. Competition could co-exist alongside cooperation, aggression could co-exist alongside deference.

    The “new” rules force what is natural into the shadows so we get passive-aggression, deference tainted by resentment, and a moral code that pits man against man, but not to live into the truth – which forms bonds, but to empower female choice – which atomizes and isolates men. In short, the rules have moved from the physical plane of men to the ethereal emotional plane of women.

    Goldmun knows that lines are for suckers. That the velvet ropes are an invisible fence, the trappings of the facade. You walk up and grease the door guy. Or you go through the many back doors. To him, that other man in his story exists in the same way the velvet ropes exist.

    Of course a system built on lies will be dehumanizing like this. Attempts to imbue, post-facto, his naked self interest with “value” are just as absurd as the blue pill guy desiring to build value in her eyes while standing within confines of the velvet ropes.

    So the moral quandary is revealed. The question of what is owed to other men arises because the two men in question have been sequestered from each other, disconnected from male lineage, and steeped in the emotional plane of the FI; they don’t exist on the same plane thus these moral questions are just hiccups in the coding of the facade, a black cat crossing the street.

    Helping men starts with “heal thyself”. But without rejecting the entirety of the lies, we end up with men “helping” other men by merely moving the velvet ropes around, e.g. $10,000 blue-pill man-up sessions designed to re-awaken (repackage) innate masculinity back into FI-approved channels, aka building better betas.

  43. Outsider
    Generally one should analyze their actions in the context of a cost benefit ratio.

    If one wants to ensure they act beta, yes.

    Give the Platinum Rule a shot [do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it], then revisist your premise.

  44. Dreamgirl getting fucked in the bathroom of a bar while he was at the bar. I wonder what happened next. If that doesn’t unplug him….

  45. Hey. I’m glad that me having sex in a bathroom sparked up so much interesting conversation, ha.

    As a quick follow up–I haven’t heard from either the Aussie guy or girl since this happened over a week ago. I didn’t even get the girls number.

    A big part of me believes that the girl was actively trying (although subconsciously) to teach the guy a lesson. When I brought up that he had paid for her way to New York, she said “oh god, I don’t wanna talk about it” and rolled her eyes.

    And while we were at the concert, it seemed like she was putting on a show and being overly flirtatious with me in view of the guy. I’ve seen similar behavior when girls have approached me at bars in full view of their boyfriend and flirt like hell just to get them jealous.

    This was an abnormally fast and easy pick-up…in part because I had social proof at first with others in the group and they were talking me up before I got there…and she must have felt like a prisoner by being obligated to hang out with the guy every night because he paid her way.

    Shanksnes made good points above when he said that:

    “1. Beta males are totally oblivious and actually like you more than other beta men, despite you not involving yourself too much in their conversations and not hanging out with them on weekends (blech..)

    2. Women pick it up, no matter how much you hide it; It’s almost as if you’ve ‘not beta’ tattooed on your forehead. They always smile around you, are flirty. Touch you obliviously, despite the sexual harassment rules.”

    Its like the ‘secret society’ phenomenon that someone mentioned to me recently. Being redpill you know and understand the true and dirty nature of women–they will do anything to fuck a guy they choose to fuck–once you have this knowledge, you become part of the ‘in crowd’ and they will open up their minds and legs faster than you could ever imagine. That was a huge turning point for me and only came after I was practicing game for about two years, AND had two hot slutty girls as roommates, so I got to see everything firsthand.

    As for my choices that evening–like I said in my post–if that guy had been cool, not been a bitch about the situation, and especially not have insulted me behind my back–I would have been more than willing to give him some tips and not have fucked the love of his life on a bathroom sink 30 feet from where he was sitting.

    I like how Agent P above compared bluepill guys to someone drowning. Toss em a rope and lead them to land–but stay the fuck away lest you get dragged down (they can ruin your professional/social life).


  46. @Razorwire:


    @Goldmund: “A big part of me believes that the girl was actively trying (although subconsciously) to teach the guy a lesson. When I brought up that he had paid for her way to New York, she said “oh god, I don’t wanna talk about it” and rolled her eyes.”

    She arrived in NY thinking, “I can manage this guy.”
    After he told her that he loved her she was thinking,”Oh Lord, how am I going to manage this guy?”
    When he pussy begged her, in public, she was thinking, “Ewwwwwwwwww! How the FUCK am I going to get away from this guy?”

    Teach him a lesson? Yeah, I suppose that’s the mild form of how you could put it.
    You could also say that he shoved her onto your dick.

  47. And I’ll add, so men are hesitant to step out of the cave into the light out of normal fear of the unknown. The “why do my eyes hurt; because you’ve never used them” types. Others will call everyone a fool for leaving the cave as if they’ve been outside and have come back to tell their tales, but have never left the cave themselves.
    One you can guide. The other don’t bother. Being left alone in the cave or a cave in forcing him out is about the only way.

  48. Like women, most betas are disloyal and low-integrity at their core. For this reason, unless there is a relationship to preserve or a strategy to manage, it makes little sense to take the risk to “help” them.

  49. “Being redpill you know and understand the true and dirty nature of women–they will do anything to fuck a guy they choose to fuck”
    Might as well use that wide spread sense of entitlement to your advantage if you can.

  50. @Rollo, imagine a “” billboard along, say, Route 95 in a major town. I’d imagine that would safely red pill a few people from afar.

  51. “Give the Platinum Rule a shot [do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it], then revisist your premise.”

    Since I have invoked Charteris:

    “We’re leaving now,” said the Saint.

    He flung an arm round Patricia’s waist and turned her towards a path which led out of the clearing away from the embankment, a grass paved ride broad enough for them to walk abreast, and if she had been a few pounds lighter his exuberance would have swung her off her feet. Even after all those years of adventure in which they had been together he would never cease to amaze her: his incredible resilience could conceive nothing more fantastic than the idea of ultimate failure. In him it had none of the qualities of mere humdrum doggedness that it would have had in anyone of a more dull and commonplace fibre; It was as swift as a steel blade, a gay challenge to disaster that never doubted the abiding favour of the stars . . . The task before them might have made hunting needles in haystacks seem like an idle pastime for blind octogenarians, but the Saint saw it only as a side road to victory.”

    Platinum Rule on top of DPA.

  52. I don’t know if sharing a little red pill knowledge with that age group is smart or stupid ?

    Do it.

    I did it with my son when he was around that age (15), and it helped a lot when he had to deal with a girl the following year in school. Worst case is that the dads of the other kids will get pissed at you and stop letting them visit.

  53. This has been a great series. Not just for the cold facts, not only for the drama of Kid Jupiter in part 1, but it’s old home week with Ian Ironwood, Deti, WaterCannon, Razorwire etc. all dropping in. Good times.

  54. @G

    I’ve seen similar behavior when girls have approached me at bars in full view of their boyfriend and flirt like hell just to get them jealous.

    I can relate…a hot girl with bf (supposedly, maybe she was lying about their relationship) in the bar bought me a drink to get me to do a country two-step (a lead/follow dance) with her and hang out at their table, but unlike you, I was the one who approached her and just started briefly freestyling with her at their table before doing the same thing with another girl at a nearby table…there may have been a similar dynamic in play

    in part because I had social proof at first with others in the group and they were talking me up before I got there

    preselected as alpha before you even arrived

    girls can talk you up, too…that also happened to me last Fri…married girl who was into me told me that another girl who wasn’t present had said that she wanted to dance with me next time she was at the bar…married girl threw her single hottie friend who was present at me…preselected…that scenario often doesn’t work out because the girl feels pressured

    girls can signal that you’re preselected in nonverbal ways…was at a meetup and greeted one girl and every girl at the meetup wanted to shake my hand…only happened with me

    …I was at a dance studio and a man walked in the place…almost all the girls knew him when they saw him…it was like every girl immediately turned to look at him…preselection

  55. @Rollo, like Sentient said, gofundme with a few RT tweets about the billboardS from some big dogs friendly to the movement and you have national headlines.

  56. @Rollo

    “My purpose has always been to give men the tools they need to do that, but is it my obligation to do so?”

    No it isn’t. On an existential level your only obligation in life is to breathe air. But I’m willing to bet you feel compelled to give men such advice just from reading this blog. Learning the principles of Red Pill Awareness through blood, sweat, and tears is no small ordeal. Learning how to better yourself as a man and advance your position within a social hierarchy is something that most men don’t have it in them to do (not of their own initiative, at least). I think that when you hit that “eureka moment”, that instance when all your experiences consolidate and become wisdom, you feel compelled to share that wisdom with your community.

    When you slay a dragon and reap its gold, you become a hero when you bring that gold back to share with your tribe. By the same token, I think it’s an innate quality of virtuous men to want to share these learned Red Pill lessons with their tribe so that the tribe doesn’t have to suffer the same hardships. Be it a component of the golden rule or the desire to be that cool mentor you didn’t have when you were younger, you sort of want to help out the guy you see struggling, especially if he reminds you of yourself.

    That being said, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. I’m not religious per se, but Matthew 7:6 is a verse that I recently came to understand a meaning of that makes sense in this context:

    [from Wikipedia]
    “Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast
    ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them
    under their feet, and turn again and rend you.”

    I interpret this to mean you can’t give advice to those not worthy of it, even if that advice shines like a set of pearls. They’ll throw your words to the ground and stomp all over them, and in some cases will seek to destroy you for your efforts. If you give a Blue Pill guy a Red Pill perspective, and he’s not in the right head-space to incorporate that wisdom into his being, he’ll scoff at best, and castigate you at worst. So you exercise caution in the interactions you have with the people you know and the way you navigate your relationships from a Red Pill perspective.

    This blog is great way to disseminate Red Pill wisdom without encountering the scorn of those who this wisdom can permeate. It’s up to you whether or not you heed the precepts discussed in the posts and the comments sections. Some (probably more than most) will find this information invaluable for their own self-transformations. Others won’t, but they’ll have no physical target for their scorn. That’s my two cents.

  57. Razorwire —

    Great comment!

    Truth Seeker —

    In fact the thought that their paramour is not sinless is unthinkable, exposing women’s true nature makes most betas very angry.

    Yep, because their entire worldview and investment is trashed by it. It’s a pretty normal reaction. Only those with better self-awareness, drive, ambition, desire and discipline can power through that reaction to get to an acceptance of the truth. Lord only knows, we’ve seen many guys in the sphere get to the point of understanding the truth, but never getting past being angry about it. Most betas never even get to that stage, really, because they don’t want to — it makes them angry just thinking about it.

  58. “What is painful to watch is how your buddies treated you after the break up. Saying things like they knew she was a horrible person, girl like always has guys on the go. You start wondering why the fuck they didn’t tell you all this before ? No one even dared to mentioned that she is cheater. Funny thing is a friend’s GF straight up told him my ex and I would not last.”


  59. I think many Red Pill men get all confused about alpha, beta and how it all plays out in real life. A few thoughts:

    Pareto Principle and Distributions – It’s axiomatic in any field of endeavor that the people at the top will way outperform the bottom folks. 80% of the effects coming from 20% of the causes is a good way to think of it but it plays out in narrower distributions too. If you look in large organizations, you’ll see outsized contributions to outcomes by 1% of the people. If you don’t really understand this, do some Googling and you’ll see how this is observed in almost all human groupings/organizations.


    There will always be top performers. And women shoot for the 20% at the top (some coincidence, ehh) and in fact perhaps as many as 50% of men never get to reproduce at all (more complex, I know but the point remains).


    It’s all relative. There will always be a top 20% in everything. Looks, strength etc. Women all aim high, at the same 20%. Which is why the rewards for mimicking Alpha traits and using game to seduce are so popular. Put more plainly – THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A BOTTOM 80%. Sexual market value is relative to the group you are being compared to. So, it’s not possible for 80% of men to be in the top 20% SMV. Many men simply cannot fathom this.


    That doesn’t mean guys who game their women are Alpha. They are just optimizing, moving up the stack a few pct points, being “greater betas” (but never lesser alphas).


    Alpha is social dominance. Period. Not high sexual market value. Not Strength. Not being tall. And you cannot teach it. You either are socially dominant it or you aren’t. You know who the Alpha of the group is – he’s the guy that everyone notices when he walks up. He’s the guy you let interrupt you. He’s the guy who smirks at your uptight girlfriend and tells her to relax – and she does.

    He’s the guy who makes the plans and then changes them and then shows up 2 hours late and you don’t mind. You can’t learn to be him. No matter how hard you try. You can ape alpha traits. You can maximize your SMV and signaling to attract higher quality women. You can use Game to seduce women effectively.

    But you’ll never be an alpha if you aren’t one already. And you’ll never not be a beta. This is very hard for beta males to digest. And one of the problems with the Red Pill world is that it’s convinced men they can “alpha up”. Nope. You still don’t dominate a group when you walk up, you still don’t have the guts to just smirk at some cunt who’s out of line. You still don’t know how to lead. And you’ll still be thinking about whether to tell someone to fuck off or punch them in face by the time an alpha has already done both.

    No matter how many blog articles you read, you’ll never change this.

  60. @Rollo: Feel honored to be mentioned in the article.

    „Do we have an obligation to give Blue Pill men value“

    There is no obligation whatsoever. How could there be and who obligates you? It‘s all voluntary and it can only be yourself. If Red Pill knowledge and game are providing you with real viable advantages in social and intergender dynamics only you yourself can and will have to decide what you are going to do with this and what you are willing to do. What your boundaries, what your ethics and what your code of morals is.

    Also you‘ll likely have to learn most of it through trial and error. You‘ll most likely have to learn some shit about yourself that does not look and feel very good. How far you are willing to go to fuck someone over for your own benefit, to selfishly manipulate people, to let someone suffer because it gains you advantages. To lie, to cheat systems, to be lazy and indolent with peoples feelings, life situations and pain.

    On the other hand you‘ll probably find that you can be altruistic and generous in matters you‘d never had been able to grasp out of your blue pill paradigm. Coming back to the Goldmund example you could also find that you can walk away from AMOG situations like that no fucks given and „let the other guy have the girl“ or even try to help him get her trough your knowledge because he‘s a cool guy but only in blue pill typical scarcity and you yourself are in abundance you worked hard for. Your ego is no longer on the line this way, you don‘t need to fight it out for one single girls to the teeth, you have plates already and the bars are full of girls you could approach.

    „Does [the idea to give Blue Pill men value] end where that man’s capacity to accept what Red Pill awareness offers him end?“

    That‘s an interesting one. I‘d say, no. Not at all. You could do things to him and for him he‘s completely unable to grasp yet but you know would be benefitial for him in the long rurn. I‘d track it back more generally to the two possible paradigms you could come at this: a takers paradigm or a givers paradigm.

    You can be 100% hardcore Red Pill with all the knowledge and benefits out of a takers paradigm. You can reap the benefits in all possible ways, sexually, financially, in the workplace, everything. It will get you results, you will „succeed“ externally, but it will not make you happy in the long run. You‘ll ultimately stay in a scarcity mindset, only be able to think win-lose and keep chasing validation through external things (money, sex, status). In the end, you‘ll be satisfied for the day when you get your next „bling“ but hungry and unfullfilled for a lifetime.

    On the other hand you can be 100% hardcore Red Pill out of a givers paradigm. You can reap the benefits of your knowledge and avoid the common blue pill traps but try to think win-win. You can try and succeed to make people around you happy WHILE getting your needs met through your skills and knowledge. In the Goldmund example this could either be taking the girl from the guy or even „helping him get the girl“. Or trying to point him in a direction you know would be benefitial for his life but he‘s unable to see in his reality. It‘s advanced and complex and you decide, you only.

    None of us are saints and it isn‘t and shouldn‘t be the goal to become the fucking Mahatma Ghandi of the Red Pill or something. That wouldn‘t be a helpful mindset at all. It also goes without saying that coming from a givers paradigm in a Red Pill context this way is very very different than some naive blinking esoteric the-world-is-beautiful-here-take-all-my-money orbiter Blue Pill AFC or something. It might seem similar on the surface at times but it‘s very different places you‘re coming frome.

    It‘s the difference between being in scarcity or abundance.
    Between givers frame or takers paradigm. Between thinking win-win or win-lose

    And, excluding metaphysical or religious reasoning, if it‘s true that long term happiness is only ever truly possible out of a givers paradigm, then this is where ethical considerations in a Red Pill context become relevant.

    You give others, ultimately you give yourself.

  61. >>My purpose has always been to give men the tools they need to do that, but is it my obligation to do so?

    This is something I’ve thought a lot about with 21 Studios, especially given the eventually-free nature of premium content. I addressed it explicitly in my most recent Miami talk.

    My thinking is this: your work is “making the world a better place”, especially for men, and in the context of an anti-masculine age.

    The “change the world/make the world better” phrase is severely over used today, so it sounds generic, vague, and pointless when you think about it at first.

    The harsh reality is though, that this is the world you also live in, along with every single person you value: your friends, business colleagues, extended family, wife, and daughter, etc. This also includes the future potential of friends you have yet to make, and quite literally, human beings that don’t exist yet but will someday [e.g. grandchildren].

    You are under no obligation to help anyone, with the possible exception of your child. But *it is* in your rational self-interest to do so at will, and at the scale and intensity that your personal talent, insight, and other values permit.

    You are shaping the world you live in for the better by helping these men. You will benefit from this directly, indirectly, as well as in ways you can’t even anticipate.

    There is also the empathy component that others have mentioned. You have the explicit awareness that some men, this year alone, will live or die depending on whether they find your work soon enough and in a way that they can make sense of quickly enough.

    It might be just 1 guy, it could be 5, or a dozen+. Not wanting to see men around you – even if out of immediate sight – suffer and die, is normal and healthy.

  62. @scribblerg –

    I can agree with the 80/20 stuff, makes sense with my own observations.

    Then you go all black/white never/always yes/no and we diverge. We’re dealing in soft sciences here, no absolutes, context matters, subjectivity matters.

    One man’s alpha in a scenario of soldiers storming the hill can be a subdued loser at the chess club. So is he alpha or beta?

    In my own life, in certain situations I can walk into it and own it within minutes. Others, I shut up and listen more, maybe do as I’m told. So am I alpha or beta?

    And in situations that I’m an alpha and I’ve had to learn these skills, how can that be if I didn’t start out as alpha? I read your comment as saying it can’t be learned and that doesn’t ring true with my experience.

  63. “Having written about Red Pill awareness for as long as I have, I know there’s far more to this, but to an initiated reader, one steeped in Blue Pill conditioning, I fully understand why it would look like psychopathy.”

    So I was right, kj still has a blue pill mindset.

  64. I’m thinking about the phrase “don’t tell guys about the Red Pill because some are not ready for it” and I’m wondering if that phrase would make any sense if it read “Don’t tell guys about college because some are not ready for it.”

    I think every guy should at least have heard of the word Red Pill just as they’ve heard of the word college.

    We’re prematurely discussing whether we should teach people a phrase that they don’t even know exists.

    In essence, we need to red pill the phrase “red pill” first. That’s what made me think of the bill boards. A person has to know something is out there before they decide whether or not to study that something. Imagine telling some dude, “Hey man, check this out. This is cool. You haven’t heard of it before, but you’re going to like this thing called college. Are you ready to commit to it?”

  65. Betas do beta shit becuase they are beta.

    An alpha can do the same shit and give off no beta reek.

    I see this regularly now that it’s terrorist season…. I mean tourist season. You can see the simp shuffling along all lifeless like with their ball and chain and brats running around and you can see the occasional alpha dad strutting around with his main bitch and fuck trophies on display.

    I reckon it like this, if you have to keep asking yourself is this alpha/ is this beta your shit is still weak. You’re on the move though, so rejoice at your progressive in becoming a man, but your shit is still weak.

    As for when to start teaching your boys…. I have been telling the Ton Spawn and Half Ton this sort of shit and all the words and jokes we’re never supposed to say. So my vote is from day one

  66. My work is making the world my bitch. I don’t mind the competition and ever boss needs decent underlings so I have always tried to instill the Unreconstructed, Unapologetic and Unrepentant masculine mind set into the men around me. If for nothing else so they can understand the sheer joy of living totally balls out, freedom, fire power and FuckYeah!

  67. Not telling guys about the Red Pill becuase they aren’t ready for it and it might somehow come back and bit you on the ass seems like weak shit.

  68. @Ton, I understand, but I’m not talking about on a 1-to-1 consult here where the interpersonal can bite you on the ass. I’m talking about making the term go global so that it’s in the public conscience. Getting the term out isn’t teaching it. Think of it as as the marketing effort before the product launch. I’m tired as fuck right now, so I hope I’m making some sense here.

  69. Like @Palma I won’t lecture anyone on what they should do just as I know I won’t listen to anyone try to lecture me on being a nice guy. (Especially where in the bad old days I’d listen to the nice guy gospel, try to SNAG it up, fail, and be told I was doing it wrong, do it more, more FAIL).

    But I can push back a little, and I have had some success dropping odd tasty nougats here and there. When I can. But I’m not preaching any evangel. Not my yob.

    I once gave a good dose of Red Pill to two happy drunk guys at a Cubs game, both engaged to be married. I couched the advice in terms of 1) evo psych – this is how men and women ARE, not what they say they are – and 2) a male whamma-jamma version of Sheryl Sandberg’s advice: you be the bad boy now, you’ll keep the brides happier longer. Don’t be the nice guy, over time, the girls will hate that, trust me, I been there, I know. Gaming never stops. But it can be fun. Change things up, keep them guessing, but don’t be a douche. All in a very positive frame, you can do this, etc.

    I have found when I couch it in terms of *science* and “here’s what the chicks themselves say”, it goes over better.

    And I will drop little nougats in other contexts, using the terminology like it’s indisputable. I’ve coached a couple divorcing guys in the rudiments, just to give them comfort: this is your bad situation to fix, you must fix yourself. But it’s not all your fault, you were sold a bill of goods, so was I, I made these mistakes too, see how things are, you can get through this. Even stunned one guy by predicting exactly how his ex was going to behave in an upcoming counseling session.

    I showed my sproglette what game was when she was 13. She gets it. Should she ever bring home a special fella, I may try to instill a little of the dark side.

    Then there are the little things – like when someone recently referred to my wife as “she’s the boss you know”, I put on a psychotic face and growled comically like Groot: NO SHE ISN’T. It got the laugh I’d intended.

  70. ianironwood @ June 5, 2017 at 8:36 pm
    “While it’s sad, it’s also sadly predictable, particularly in the workplace. Unless you want to Red Knight or Black Knight, keeping a low profile and a cordial, remote attitude is recommended.”

    My experience as well. The best you should do for Blue Pill coworkers is treat them like drowning victims. Throw them some help, they’ll either grab it or not, but never take your own feet off solid ground.

  71. What you give is what you get. Always. That’s the Golden Rule in all cultures and the Metaphysical Truth.

    You have the responsibility to make the best of yourself. Like every living thing. And cultivating your psyche is just part of that process of becoming better at interacting with your surroundings.

    My appeal to all Red Pill Aware men:
    Get more Red Pill Aware! Max it all out! Reap the gifts and share your gift wherever you can.

    The limit of helping everyone around you is met where the cosmic returns diminish by you damaging yourself by arousing hostility that results in damage against yourself/ or the ones you help.

    Once you get too damaged by helping Blue Pill Dead Ends due to too little ego investment bombing capacity (Faith, Energy, Courage, Resilience), the higher goal of helping everyone else who in fact IS capable of ego investment bombing or just applying the most valuable Red Pill Life, are the real sacrifice.

    Do not sacrifice the benefit of the ones you help for the hopeless who only have destruction as their final end.

    Do not sacrifice the ones you help in order to help those who are cursed and helpless by God himself.

    The distinction of who to help, then is yours to make and the responsibility is therefore fully yours, too.

    But as you all know: with great power comes great responsibility. That’s the price we all pay by gaining more and more power.

    Stay red, get redder


  72. @Rollo

    My purpose has always been to give men the tools they need to do that, but is it my obligation to do so

    You’re waxing philosophical.

    Why would anyone think that you have an obligation? A duty is entailed by an ethical or moral code. How does anyone know what ethical or moral code constrains you, if any?

  73. @Ton

    Not telling guys about the Red Pill becuase they aren’t ready for it and it might somehow come back and bit you on the ass seems like weak shit.

    You have the capacity to break men down so that they need you to be their Good Samaritan and teach them the Red Pill. You got those skills from your life in the military. Very few if any men here have those same skills.

    I won’t ask you to do bleeding edge physics (which I did once upon a time) if you don’t ask me to break men down so that I can teach them the Red Pill.

    Men without your skill set ought not talk about Fight Club.

  74. asdgamer, Rollo has laid an obligation upon himself. This should be obvious.

  75. Thanks Rollo… in the previous comments section, Ton clearly showed the absurdity of my “alpha traits vs beta traits” thinking. Obviously alpha men are going to do “beta” stuff, like hold a 9-5 job, take out the trash, feel sentimental emotions. What makes him alpha, from Rollo’s telling, is the overall frame of his relationships, particularly with women. Once you’ve got that down, you can take up knitting or whatever..

    I agree with what guys are saying about men’s general lack of receptivness to TRP, except in cases where they are getting hurt. Rollo does a great job explaining the presence of that danger in the corporate environment, which every man is aware of. Liberals like to think that men voted against Hillary, because they share Trump’s attitude towards women, as expressed in the Access Hollywood tapes. The reality is that men fear being in the position of Billy Bush, who ultimately lost his job for expressing an awkward forced laugh during a private conversation. Women do not really appreciate this, because society has come to terms with female sexuality and no woman will ever get fired for “girl talk.” Men on the other hand, even men who are progressive, or Blue Pill, or whatever, are made to feel like they are walking a tightrope all the time. Of course, their “I am a harmless beta” frame will never extinguish the threat. But as long as they are alone in the voting booth, there is always the possibility of fighting back, by allowing the socially “unthinkable” outcome to be made real.

  76. Legit point Gamer which is why I try to avoid giving advice to certian men here. I simply can’t related and you know I have mad respect for folks who can do and create some of this science shit

    However I do think most men here would benefit from being a tad more brash when they are out in about in the world.

  77. Glad I could help Boxcar. Don’t forget the not being discouraged part and look, it ain’t all your fualt either. Lots of folks try to put a negative spin on alpha and it takes some time to shit can that bit of false thinking too

  78. @Goldmund I’ve been in similar situations. In your blog your write that the situation may have gotten you banned from future group outings because it put the hosts on the spot.

    I’ve learned now that while the low hanging fruit may be tempting…going for it in such a brazen manner doesn’t win you any points with others around you.

    Here we’re debating the lessons of it. But in my own experience I’m now super discrete about bouncing a girl from a party where everyone is watching and notes who’s with whom, who’s leaving with whom.

    I think the girls I bang in my social circle appreciate the discretion. It’s kind of a turn on for them to know that we have this secret.

    Bouncing a girl the way you did was bold but longer-term would you do this again in the same way?

  79. @Sentient/IAS Part of that fear I describe is borne out of a series of experiences where people hate on my success with women. When i’m late 40’s banging girls in their 20’s…it’s not exactly going to earn me points with Blue Pill guys struggling in their marriages or divorced guys where the best they can do is some wall-hitting man-hater….or younger guys who should be banging girls in their 20’s.

  80. So the question might be, are we our Beta brother’s keepers? Do we have an obligation to give Blue Pill men value or does that idea end where that man’s capacity to accept what Red Pill awareness offers him end?

    A man is under zero obligation to help other men. Helping other men is difficult, because the fucking resistance, especially when trying to insert new modes of thinking, and ways to look at life and it’s problems.

    Yet I believe that a man should help other men when they ask. I gave up volunteering help and information a long time ago. I come here to try to do it in anonymity.

    The exceptions to this are for family and offspring. I have 11 ( I think… I always forget somebody..) nephews and I am obligated to help them as my uncles and male family members helped me.

    As I’ve said here a few times, I believe there is more than one version of the Red Pill, so I will usually not start off with intersexual dynamics or biological truths initially. I’ll try to get a read on what a guy’s mindset is in total, and just how open minded he is, how well he knows and understands himself first of all. Ime, it’s hard as fuck for many men to be honest with themselves.

    I used to think I could ” Red Pill ” guys by example, but that doesn’t work. The buffers are enormous – ” you’re lucky “, ” you’re crazy “, ” you’re a psychopath ” ( hey Kid…lol ), or the ever popular ” I can’t do what you do because ‘X’ “.

    I have to say it though, I have indeed been overwhelmed and disappointed by the mental/physical state I find many guys in today. Too many guys just making it from day to day in aimless fuckery. Digging down into that in itself is depressing. It’s a conundrum because in order to really help most, you have to be prescriptive and my particular prescription might blow up your life.

    So no, there is no obligation unless one is asked for help.


    I do have a small project currently. The brother of one of my goddaughters boyfriend. He’s 17, and for the past 2 months, every time I turn around he’s in my home. I figured he was there to try to get with my daughter, since they are the same age ( that is another story for later ), but it really appears that they are ” just friends “. Lots of young men seem to have female ” friends ” now. Odd.

    Everywhere I go in my own house, the kid is under foot, asking questions, He seems genuinely interested in learning some shit. He asks about everything, my artwork, my guitar, the yardwork, the home improvements, boxing, lifting…. everything. And he listens. Sunday I did something I’d never do. I took him into the garage to see the Hemi Cuda. A thousand more questions arose. I put a battery in it and fired it up, and he almost pissed his pants. I normally never even mention the car to guys that come to the house, because most – especially younger guys – give no fucks at all. They like the ” new ” ones better, lol.

    When he was leaving he said he’d be back Saturday. I think it’s time to pick his brain and see what’s up.

    The wife mentioned ” awww, you have a son now. You guys look great together and I hope you give him guidance “.

    Nag, nag, nag.

  81. “Bouncing a girl the way you did was bold but longer-term would you do this again in the same way?”

    G didn’t know aussie guy and I’m sure G and the host are boys so there was really zero issue with this. Just really tight gaming that night. I know if I were the host or G in this scenario I would definitely high five the other guy.

  82. “Once you’ve got that down, you can take up knitting or whatever..”

    Heh. So I’ve mentioned that I’m a coffee house oriented musician and once upon a time I looked up some pictures from a place I had played to see if there was anything I liked and could use, and someone had taken a picture of me from the three quarter angle, so I didn’t know they were there.

    It was sitting at a table, wearing my black badass long coat and outback hat and – knitting.

    Paraphrasing the caption that had been given to it: “That’s alpha.”

    I used it for a good giggle.

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