The Utility of Beta Men – Part II

Before I get started today I thought I’d relate a few things to think about from the first installment of this series.

No Neutral Balance

Reader Boxcar had a pertinent comment on last week’s thread:

Frankly, losing the “beta” qualities would make it difficult to live a happy, successful and fulfilling life. But they have become stigmatized because they are associated with men being used by women.

I used to lock horns about the necessity of Beta traits with Athol Kay on Married Man Sex Life back before women took over his messaging. The problem with this idea is that 80%+ of men in a feminine-primary social order, that has systematically engineered a majority of men to be predominantly Betas, possess all these Beta behavioral and psychological attributes in spades.

As such, there will always be a gross overemphasis on the value of those aspects. I don’t believe in a balance of Alpha to Beta traits. It’s my opinion that men should make Alpha traits their predominant, default set, only expressing Beta traits as necessary to maintain a minimum comfort level – and even then, this comfort level should only be apparent to reinforce a necessary anxiety level for a woman’s continued interest in a man.

Also, I believe there needs to be a distinction between Alpha and Beta behavioral sets and Alpha and Beta mindsets. Most men today are raised into a Beta mindset and this manifests in their behaviors. Vice versa for Alpha mindsets. However, that isn’t to say that a man of a predominantly Alpha mindset can’t deliberately display a Beta attribute in order to serve his own ends. Same with Beta men displaying a Alpha attributes. The problem with this lies in what is congruent with the overall perception of that man’s status to a woman.

In the case of the Australian guy whom Goldmund schooled in last week’s post, the woman already had a preconceived understanding that his mindset was that of a Beta. Had he displayed some brief “flash of Alpha” it would’ve seemed inauthentic and incongruous with her preconception. However, going from an Alpha preconception to a brief “flash of Beta” can be endearing and affirming for a woman.

Ergo, there is no neutral balance of Alpha and Beta that a woman will ever find attractive in a man. His mindset and behaviors must be predominantly and consistently Alpha to hold her Hypergamous sexual and relational interests. While occasional, strategic and brief expressions of a Beta-like trait are necessary for comfort, there is no advantage in a man trying to maintain some equilateral balance of Alpha to Beta, and if anything it only serves to confuse a woman about her estimate of your status. Moments of Vulnerability can be reassuring for women, but only when that vulnerability is uncharacteristic for a predominantly Alpha man.

Relational Equity

One very common hindbrain presumption most well-trained Betas have is a that their emotional, financial and loyalty investments in a woman will be appreciated and reciprocated by the women they invest in. This ‘pre’-sumption is integral to a mindset founded on the old books social contract. Beta men’s approach to intimacy going in already expects a woman to appreciate his investing in her as some quality that sets him apart from “typical guys who just want to bang her”.

So, when when a guy like Goldmund effortlessly seduces the woman that Aussie Guy has been investing so much into (like all-expense paid trips) it represent two very frustrating realities for him. The first, as I mentioned, is the destruction of his ego-investment in his old books mindset. The second is the sense of loss of so much relational investment he was trying to figure out how to get a return on. All of the preconditions he believed were necessary to get this woman’s intimacy are tossed out of the window when Goldmund arrives and she willingly and (to him) unconditionally becomes sexual with him.

He believed he had to earn her sex, but in no uncertain terms, along comes a guy who did almost nothing to earn it and she reflexively responds to him with sex. In prior posts I’ve proposed that women will break rules for Alpha men while creating and imposing new/more rules for Beta men to access her sexuality. I would expand this to say that Beta men will, via their preconditioning, impose those rules upon themselves before they even meet a woman with whom to invest themselves in.

The presumption of relational equity comes before a Beta even has a woman to invest in. This is the source of Aussie guy’s frustration. I covered this dynamic in Prewhipped and Betas in Waiting.

Giving Value

Commenter Trent Lane had an excellent insight about what ought or ought not to be a Red Pill aware man’s duty to his fellow, unenlightened Blue Pill man.

Ethic responsibilities in a red pill paradigm for those who are not in it is an interesting concept. If we all accept Red Pill principles like Hypergamy, AF/BB and so on as truth (which most of us do, since we‘re here) and as you advance in Game you see, know and can do more with social and intergender dynamics than 99% of the men around you.

You can use this for destruction and mayhem. You can use this to selfishly get your needs met with zero fucks given about anyone. Or you can use it to get your needs met AND give value to the people you interact with.

The question is, why should you?
The answer is, aside from metaphysical reasons like religion, Karma and so forth, in which you can chose to believe or not: you mainly do it for yourself.

By fucking others up this way you fuck yourself up. Is it possible to go down the route of destruction this way with zero fucks given about anyone and lead a happy, fulfilled life long term? Probably for some. More likely you‘ll end up fucked yourself, without purpose, unable to ever satisfy your raging narcissistic urges, burning out and getting more and more shallow as you chase the next kick.

Giving value makes you happier than taking value. It sounds corny like a cliche, but if long term happiness in life is your concern, it‘s true.

I’m going to jump off here because this comment speaks to what I want to cover next in this series – dealing with Blue Pill men in a Red Pill aware man’s life. Just as I’m inclined to tell guys of the MGTOW persuasion that there really is no exiting the game, so too is it next to impossible for the Red Pill aware man to insulate himself from having to deal with, work with, relate to, men who are thoroughly invested in a Blue Pill defined existence.

In the first part of this series I mentioned how Blue Pill orbiters are often an untapped resource of social proof for a Red Pill aware man. Sometimes all it takes to stand out in the crowd is to simply allow the mediocre to display their status and be ready to capitalize on it. It’s like the part of Game where once you get to attraction all you have to do is not fuck things up. That’s not to say Game doesn’t take effort, it does, but when you have a connection with a woman who herself has orbiters’ attention in spades it easy to see that her attraction cues and ego are built around quality not quantity.

I also mentioned in last week’s essay that actively AMOGing these guys can actually be counterproductive to Game. Women may not ever want to bang their orbiters or really have them mean anything more that easy attention, but on the same note they likely don’t want to have anything too cruel happen to them. Fortunately there are ‘lightest touch’ ways to use these guys’ inability (or willful rejection) to really embrace Red Pill awareness to your advantage if you have the art. There’s a tendency to want to help these orbiters, but I would say the real test is having the confidence to use them as SMV comparisons. Adopting an Amused Mastery with an orbiter is one such method – building social proof by artfully pointing out their Beta Game strategies. The risk you run is women taking this as arrogance on your part, at first, until that Beta confirms your measured analysis of him.

Betas at Work

One of the most arduous aspects of modern work life is having to cooperate with well-conditioned Blue Pill men. God forbid you have a business partner or a boss with whom your financial wellbeing depends. I would argue that the single most dangerous environment in which to attempt to ‘help’ a Blue Pill man with Red Pill awareness is in the workplace. For all the talk of mythical “glass ceilings” and back room boys clubs, modern corporate culture has been at the mercy of the Feminine Imperative’s influence for several decades now. This social environment was a Male Space that was invaded long ago by feminine-primary interests, but for the sake of this discussion I’d have readers consider the following: imagine a Blue Pill conditioned Beta who’s been educated and acculturated in feminine primacy (as equality) for the better part of his lifetime. Now, take that guy and put him into a workplace social structure, steeped in feminine-primary work laws, HR departments and corporate bylaws (all designed to avoid charges of endemic workplace sexism). Finally, base that man’s livelihood, the health of his marriage and the future wellbeing of his children on how well he adheres to that feminine-primary office culture and you get a guy who’s a veritable time bomb for any Red Pill aware coworker.

This reminds me of a great article in the Telegraph about how men are so afraid of sexual harassment accusations they resist the urge to extend the most basic courtesies to women in the workplace.

Elsesser cites examples of men who have been dragged in by their HR departments for simply opening a door for a female colleague or complimenting her on a new suit. “Stories like these spread around workplaces, instilling a fear that innocent remarks will be misinterpreted,” she says.

The upside to this situation is that a Red Pill savvy man can use the predictable foreknowledge of how a Blue Pill colleague will respond to various workplace circumstances to his advantage. While it may be prudent to accommodate that guy’s Blue Pill mindset at work, it also presents some opportunities to use Red Pill awareness and Game in a context that can advance your career. Female bosses are still female, and as noted earlier, the same dynamics you can use to ping social proof from a Blue Pill orbiter can similarly be used with a Blue Pill coworker and a female supervisor.

If you know a guy is trapped in a Blue Pill marriage, odds are he’s in a dead bedroom situation. If he’s got kids, especially a newborn, it’s fairly easy to predict his life priorities based on what we know of his Blue Pill mindset. Happy wife, happy life is probably his ego-investment. There’s quite a lot you can read from a Blue Pill coworker or supervisor, and as a Red Pill aware man, this puts you at a strategic advantage in the workplace. As such you are not at the disadvantage he is and can opt in on work opportunities his mindset and his life’s resultant conditions wont permit him to.

As a side note here, I should also mention that being Red Pill aware has various advantages in dealing with women in the workplace too. In the same vein as the Blue Pill supervisor, it’s important to get a ‘read’ on a female boss and how she interacts with male and female subordinates. Corporate culture is often the most visceral teacher when it comes to understanding intrasexual competition amongst women. However, as a Red Pill aware man we can also apply our predictive Red Pill Lens towards what most women in the workplace are experiencing in their lives. We know the common dissatisfaction professional women experience when it comes to their personal lives. We also know that even the married ones are likely to be discontent with husbands whom they can never feel comfortable in submitting themselves to – especially after 8-10 hours at an office where lesser men must submit to her and the greater men she is beholden to don’t see her as anything but an instrument for their own success. The trick is using this tactical understanding to your own benefit by getting inside their heads and making female nature work for you.

So, after all this we’re left with a few of considerations. The first is the degree of calculated risk a Red Pill man is comfortable in taking with a Blue Pill colleague. Even if the guy is a personal friend, there is always a risk that using your Red Pill Lens with him can backfire on you. There’s only one thing worse than a woman scorned and that’s a deeply committed Blue Pill guy who’s just had his mindset used against him by a superior player. Most will pass it off as the result of an unfair life, but others, the less stable Blue Pill guys, they can have an explosive potential.

Then there is the ever present ethical considerations that will always dog this question – should you do it? If Goldmund’s story from last week’s essay was an object lesson in mate poaching it was also a subjective lesson in the ethical consideration of it too. Much of what constitutes attractiveness in men to women is found on the Dark Triad personality traits. Sometimes Red Pill awareness and Game application gets called an education in psychopathy. Having written about Red Pill awareness for as long as I have, I know there’s far more to this, but to an initiated reader, one steeped in Blue Pill conditioning, I fully understand why it would look like psychopathy.

Now the question is, does a Red Pill man use his awareness to his advantage outside of the intersexual realm? In the case of using it with a female supervisor that might be an easy, yes, but in the case of using a Blue Pill man’s handicap of his mindset that answer may be subjective by order of degree. Even if there is no malice involved, and even if just by fact of having that awareness, a Red Pill man has a distinct advantage over men given to a Blue Pill belief set and their resultant life conditions.

So the question might be, are we our Beta brother’s keepers? Do we have an obligation to give Blue Pill men value or does that idea end where that man’s capacity to accept what Red Pill awareness offers him end? Obviously I have two books and five and a half years of blog posts all written with the intent of ultimately unplugging Blue Pill men and making them aware of the true nature of intersexual dynamism. My purpose has always been to give men the tools they need to do that, but is it my obligation to do so?

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Yollo Comanche
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Yollo Comanche

First.

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[…] The Utility of Beta Men – Part II […]

Yollo Comanche
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Yollo Comanche

@Rollo

“The risk you run is women taking this as arrogance on your part, at first, until that Beta confirms you measured analysis of him.”

confirms *your* measured analysis of him.

crucial conjunction.
[Got it, thanks]

ShanksNes
Guest

Pro tip: Never help a beta male coworker. Keep redpill to yourself.

Two interesting things if you wear the beta mask at work despite being redpill aware:-

1. Beta males are totally oblivious and actually like you more than other beta men, despite you not involving yourself too much in their conversations and not hanging out with them on weekends (blech..)

2. Women pick it up, no matter how much you hide it; It’s almost as if you’ve ‘not beta’ tattooed on your forehead. They always smile around you, are flirty. Touch you obliviously, despite the sexual harassment rules.

ianironwood
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As usual, outstanding analysis, particularly of the role of the Red Pill in the workplace, Rollo. And to answer the question, our dedication to spreading the news to our unfortunate brethren must be tempered with the understanding that it is largely a matter of timing. Few are ready to hear the unvarnished truth, unless they have been prepared by personal catastrophe (i.e. divorce) and face a psychological crisis. Even then, the tendency to lapse into Blue Pill perspectives after being faced with the awful Truth is all too common. One must exercise extreme caution, and only where the soil is… Read more »

walawala
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walawala

A few points arising from this follow up. Yes Goldmund was alpha by banging he Aussie guy’s girl but the backlash he faces even from his friends is that he won’t be invited along to the nex dinner. Discretion is critical to this behaviour and an alpha trai. Secondly once you’ve adopted the Red Pill for me I’m constantly second guessing myself in any female interaction: should I have paid for drinks??? Is that beta!???? I cooked dinner because I enjoy it…was I beta!??? I texted her out of the blue and realized I sent a photo I’d previously sent… Read more »

sundawner
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sundawner

I have become a firm believer that the only way people learn is through hitting rock bottom. Even then, there are no guarantees. Hell, the only way I discovered TRP and TRM was because BPD ex destroyed all my blue pill dreams. I wanted answers and I was finally open to more advice then ” Just be yourself. You are such a catch and will make some girl really happy one day” What is painful to watch is how your buddies treated you after the break up. Saying things like they knew she was a horrible person, girl like always… Read more »

Mycroft Jones
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Mycroft Jones

Is it your obligation to unplug a blue pill man? From a Christian point of view we have two things in tension with each other: on the one hand, we have the story of the good Samaritan, who saw a man beaten to a pulp, bloody, lying in a ditch. He stopped and helped. On the other hand, Jesus outright said, “do not throw your pearls before swine”. Why? Because they would turn around and rip you to shreds. This sounds exactly like the ticking time bomb that is the disappointed blue pill guy. Abuse blue pill men? No. Unplug… Read more »

FoX
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FoX

I have just been invited to join a private “men’s FB group” out here in south-eastern Australia where i live. I am also gearing up to drop my blog for middle-aged men called, ‘The Solitary Silver FoX’ which i’ll be dropping over the neXt month or so. Will keep y’all posted. The first thing i did with the men’s group was refer them here, starting with The Best Of Year One…So i think we need to enlighten our brothers, but not to be too attached to the outcome, as with anything…

frank632
Guest

The problem is that women hold all of the cards when it comes to sexual access. In our closest relatives, chimps, male on male violence increases as female promiscuity increases and so does the sexual coercion of females by males. And believe it or not, rape and sexual coercion was how men procreated for centuries. As society became civilized, we came up with better ways to control female sexuality without resorting to rape, be it through religion, social norms, arranged marriage etc. Now that the inmates run the asylum, men have no idea how to get their basic needs met.… Read more »

benfromtexas
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benfromtexas

This is probably one of the darkest and coolest posts you’ve written in a while, Rollo.
1. Should you help men? Yes. I seriously believe certain men are here to teach, and you are one of them.
2. Should we help or use BP men? I think it’s more of a cost/benefit analysis for each man to make for his particular situation at that particular time. Just because you got a loaded gun doesn’t necessarily mean you should pull the trigger.

palmasailor
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palmasailor

If the Aussie in part one ever does unplug, a lot of the credit should go to Goldmund.

Men don’t unplug until they’re ready no matter how much you try to ‘help them’

Mineter
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Mineter

Arguably (based on my understanding of Jack Donovan’s “The Way of Men” and “Becoming a Barbarian”), the only men to whom you owe anything akin to an obligation is your “gang”, your own honour group to whom you have obliged yourself.

Any other man… anything you do for them is a charitable act. If doing so is contrary to your best interests, you are being foolish.

Anon01
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Anon01

FYI Rollocomment image

ollieoxenfree1
Guest

“You can use this for destruction and mayhem. You can use this to selfishly get your needs met with zero fucks given about anyone. Or you can use it to get your needs met AND give value to the people you interact with.” “Giving value makes you happier than taking value. It sounds corny like a cliche, but if long term happiness in life is your concern, it‘s true.” People who say they care, rarely ever do. It’s akin to a societal strategy for weak men to moralise to like minded men. Thereby casting doubt in an individual’s mind, as… Read more »

~A
Guest
~A

Wanting to share the RP truths seems to be one of the first go-to reactions after unplugging – the “guys, this is so cool, it helped me understand everything, check it out!” kind of way. It is also probably the first real-close experience with blue pill indoctrination – when some of your life-long buddies outright reject your findings that are often based in your own practical experiences (ranging from “Well, maybe it works for YOU with these LOW QUALITY girls! Nuh-uh, NAWALT!” and “Man, you used to be normal, these things changed you”, to more extreme rejections). Unplugging may be… Read more »

Playdontpay
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Playdontpay

I don’t generally try to unplug blue pill co workers, but I can’t help dropping red pill truths into conversations when they start talking Disney idealistic shit around me. I work freelance on film/tv productions occasionally, about 2 years ago I bumped into a guy I hadn’t seen for about 3 years and he excitedly tells me ” oh I haven’t seen you I just got married!” Like this is some sort of achievement and not a capitulation. Meet Simon he’s a 47 year old BP nice guy, very friendly and easy going, tall , slim full head of hair,… Read more »

SFC Ton
Guest

A man should use all aspects of knowledge base and skill set to improve his lot in life. Red Pill knowledge and your game skill set is no different

Doing otherwise is self limiting and frankly stupid as fuck. Who the hell wants to be limited in their success and enjoyment in life? I mean I get men having the various religious beliefs that limit and guide behavior but most of what people call ethical deliemas aren’t

TheLastCoyote
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TheLastCoyote

I’m of two minds about helping other men see RP truths. In most cases, my criteria for giving advice are: 1) Do they want advice; 2) Do they need advice; and 3) Did they ask for advice. Improving one’s self is usually the best way to go, as few things are more persuasive to others than results. But exceptions need to be made sometimes, depending on who it is and what the situation is. Too many men don’t have other men in their lives who will pull them aside and tell them the truth when they need it most. And… Read more »

kfg
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kfg

newlyaloof
Guest

@Ian good to see you posting. I agree unplugging is a tricky business. When people gave me advice (that was red pill, even though they didn’t have a label for it), I shrugged it off as “asshole tactics.” Not until I read the Relationship Game Week post at Heartiste did I break through my own buffers to see the light: https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/08/14/relationship-game-week-a-readers-journey/

As for giving men advice, Ian, Have you ever read the book called Fish!? It teaches morale boosting and team building through parables. I believe someone could write a game book in this fashion.

anon
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anon

” It teaches morale boosting and team building through parables. “

Strangely, I just read the following about five minutes ago and thought it salient enough to copy and save. Thought it summed up the RP pretty aptly (though RP wasn’t the topic).

“The solution is: stop treating life as a series of moral parables. Once you get that, it all just becomes evidence – “

There must be a moral in there somewhere….

newlyaloof
Guest

@anon, we learn through stories, and parables have a way of sidelining our buffers long enough for the message to sink in. I’d love to see Ian take a run at this.

kfg
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kfg

” . . . parables have a way of sidelining our buffers long enough for the message to sink in.”

He never did find a pony.

newlyaloof
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@kfg, you lost me on that one.

Albert
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Albert

I had an interesting revelation in regard to the assessment of my ‘betaness’ vs. ‘ my ‘alphaness’. I would be constantly second guessing myself, is that alpha? Is that beta? Etc. Etc. However, the personal answer I ‘ve found was to reinterpret these question as a form of self-respect, after every interaction i would ask myself am I respecting my own choices? Surprisingly, this did not only work with women but also with men. In the sense if I would meet someone who was responsive to red pill knowledge and I could engage a respectful conversation I did. Meanwhile if… Read more »

Novaseeker
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Novaseeker

In my workplace, I mostly work with women as peers (my entire group is female other than for me!), but have lots of contact with other guys in the organization — most of them are beta or greater beta. I will drop in RP tidbits here and there in relevant conversations and see what the reaction is before going much further — my experience is that most either don’t get it, or don’t want to get it, so I don’t go further. A couple have been more interested, but still seem to be held back by various preconceptions in their… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

@Newly Aloof:

anon took the moral (oooh, the irony) from an article and referred to a short story. I completed the article and story in one go as a parable.

Of course, as neither the article nor story actually make an appearance here, my rejoinder might be just a bit opaque around the edges.

http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/01/11/heuristics-work-until-they-dont/

http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/12/13/pony-somewhere/

kfg
Guest
kfg

Point: “In looking to the future, there is one important inquiry which the young should put to their own hearts:—What do I most desire to become in mature life? What position am I anxious to occupy in society? What is the estimation in which I wish to be held by those within the circle of my acquaintance? The answer to these inquiries, from the great mass of young people, can well be anticipated. There are none among them who desire to be disrespected and shunned by the wise and good—who are anxious to be covered with disgrace and infamy—who seek… Read more »

thedeti
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@ Sundawner: “What is painful to watch is how your buddies treated you after the break up. Saying things like they knew she was a horrible person, girl like always has guys on the go. You start wondering why the fuck they didn’t tell you all this before ? No one even dared to mentioned that she is cheater. Funny thing is a friend’s GF straight up told him my ex and I would not last.” The answer to your question of why your friends didn’t tell you is in the very next post from Mycroft Jones: “Abuse blue pill… Read more »

theasdgamer
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Red Pill Good Samaritanism should only be applied when a man is ready for it…helpless, wounded, and bleeding in a ditch by the side of the road. He has been frivorced by his whale of an ex-wife or has been cucked in his own house by a girlfriend screwing a junkie in his bed while he’s watching a vid in the living room.

theasdgamer
Guest

@wala Yes Goldmund was alpha by banging he Aussie guy’s girl but the backlash he faces even from his friends is that he won’t be invited along to the nex dinner. ONE friend invited G…maybe the inviter friend was also drunk and won’t remember shit or maybe G will use the drunk defense to smooth things over. Discretion is critical to this behaviour and an alpha trai. Cosign, especially for your social circle. Secondly once you’ve adopted the Red Pill for me I’m constantly second guessing myself in any female interaction You’re at the conscious competence stage of Game…it’s Ok.… Read more »

Alpha Jedi
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@Rollo Tomassi To the question of “are we our Beta brother’s keepers?” I think that it comes down to weighing 2 major factors: 1) Is it good for Red Pill self-interest? 2) Is it in the best interest for greater society as a whole? 1) For the Red Pill aware, especially those that are new to it, the tool set and lens offers the keys to unlocking many rewards and perks that the human experience has to offer. In a natural sense (especially with the Dark Triad) it becomes more about survival of the fittest, and to the fit go… Read more »

Agent P
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Agent P

First rule of being a lifeguard, don’t get in the water with a drowning man who is still conscious, because he’ll drag you down and kill the both of you. Throw him a rope, try to calm him down, but don’t get in there with him. I am with most of you here. You can drop pearls of wisdom here and there to see who takes the bait. You can see who “sees” what you do in certain situations and see if there is a possibility for a kind of RP rapport. You cannot just drop RP left and right… Read more »

thedeti
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“Personally if I knew a father had serious RP knowledge and failed to pass that to his son, it would almost be cruel of the father. ”

I’m with you there 100%. An RP aware father has an obligation to teach his son (and his daughter) the truth. Failure to do so is parental malpractice.

Sentient
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Sentient

Wala

You are at the stage where you are trying to make a language – Game – an ethos… A raison d’etre.

Time to move forward. Embrace your value… Move on to the supra Game state and start to live a Dynamic, Passionate and Authentic life. Use game merely as a language and ro understand what is being said.

Outsider
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Outsider

Generally one should analyze their actions in the context of a cost benefit ratio. In the case of Goldmund, it may have been smarter to retain his standing in the social group for increased future value instead of cashing in his chips for 20 minute pussy. The same can be said when dealing with beta men throughout life. You have to decide when mingling with one will pay dividends for you in the form of implied value in the future so you have to get along with whomever is advantageous to do so be it alpha or beta. I don’t… Read more »

walawala
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walawala

@Sentient There is a fear of regressing or backsliding. Each time I text a girl and she doesn’t reply within a minute I’m thinking “am I bleeding value?!!” The problem with adopting the Red Pill and recognising beta behaviour is that you can’t Unsee it. Every movie every commercial…every time a guy In the office speaks I start analysing it. There are betas behind every bush… I’m starting to relax. I certainly don’t have anything to prove. Plates drop. I’m approaching that higher plain of inderstnsding…but it’s still frustrating. its like I can now predict with reasonable certainty when a… Read more »

jwquiroz
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jwquiroz

I usually do not help men on these issues because very often they use what you told them against you. They talk about what you said on your back and try to ostracize you from a group. I feel it is better to teach by example. Also, in the case of Goldmund, unless that girl is with your boss I say fuck it. There is always competition amongst men and don’t ever think for a moment the other guy would not do that to you if he could. Once the girl stated she is not with him is more than… Read more »

Keith
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Keith

I don’t owe any body anything. But what is freely given can be freely shared. A small redpill nugget of information a maxim to a struggling blue pill guy can save his life, his marriage. A word of encouragement can go a long way even if they lack understanding of the whole FI. ROLLO he does not charge anything for this blog and practically gives his books away free. Why then should I be opportunistic when sharing this insights. I have a question for commenters my son has moved in with me and brings with him a whole crew of… Read more »

jsolbakken
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jsolbakken

Jesus said, he that hath an ear, let him hear. Jesus also said, cast not your pearls before swine. It seems to me, the implication is that people who lack ears should not be expected to hear, and some people are swine who don’t want to hear. I’d say that in general we owe the truth to all people, but prudence dictates that the painful truths be handled with delicacy and discretion. It is my experience that the deeper the truth the less I’m able to discuss it with anyone.

IAS
Guest
IAS

@Wala: you are well beyond my skill level but it appears you have some particular mindset challenges which sometimes one can glimpse in some of your FRs.

Accept your past for what it is, the past.
Let go of the fear… The fear of regressing, the fear of being judged a beta.

rugby11
Guest
rugby11

“It is my experience that the deeper the truth the less I’m able to discuss it with anyone.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u6roQsoatQ
Always lose people in my circle and story if i am too truthful about my life and experiences. People seem to not want the “truth” just a version of its interpretation. Also listen to what the person your dealing with is going through and gage in that moment. The context of the truth is something that you think through and express with that person alone. But some people are angry and violent with leavening their mindset for a new one.

kfg
Guest
kfg

“I usually do not help men on these issues because very often they use what you told them against you. They talk about what you said on your back and try to ostracize you from a group.

Now let’s see, where have I seen that sort of thing before. I seem to recall it goes so far as to be a marker behavior, indicative of membership in a particular group.

Oh. Yes, I’ve got it now . . . the Women’s Circle.

Bog
Guest
Bog

Of course we should help our fellow men…unpllug them, teach them, help them, we were all once there. Fuck bitches, bros before hoes, its the only thing that can get us out of this feminine doctrine…help the ones you can, leave the rest in the pit of feminine mindset

newlyaloof
Guest

@Keith, it’s your gym. Post it up and give us updates. Those boys will tell their mothers, and I wouldn’t be surprised if you don’t get more accidental run-ins with these ladies. lol!

Truth Seeker
Guest
Truth Seeker

As the “crazy old uncle”, I’ve tried to instill red pill values in my nephews and their friends, but I’ve only had one nephew listen. I have found that for the most part, there is no helping beta males until they are destroyed by an americunt. And even then most fall back into their beta traits. In fact the thought that their paramour is not sinless is unthinkable, exposing women’s true nature makes most betas very angry. Reprogramming is hard.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Wala

Because I was that guy in the original post…and don’t ever want to go back to that.

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You can be whoever you want to be… [Blax – no homo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TytB2nW1s-E

Move forward.

Water Cannon Boy
Guest
Water Cannon Boy

women wouldn’t want anything too cruel to happen to an orbiter if it meant he’d give up on being an orbiter. Aussie guy was probably somebody aussie girl felt would still be an orbiter after “the talk” when they got back to aussie land about “love you like a brother, but…”. And it’d have to include going over she didn’t ask him to pay for the trip and so on, and so on.

Razorwire
Guest
Razorwire

To help or not help. The moral question has risen into view because the waters of patriarchal community have receded, giving way to a barren landscape of atomized individuals pursuing personal (but not often rational self-interest) paths through the obfuscated and perverted truths that are systemic within a feminine primacy. In general, beta men seek refuge (safety over success) from the dissonance of the inverted truths and alpha men seek fortune (success over safety) enabled by the hamstrung men (dwindling relative competition) and the reality that the truth cannot be destroyed (they “just get it”.) Said another way, this is… Read more »

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Outsider
Generally one should analyze their actions in the context of a cost benefit ratio.

If one wants to ensure they act beta, yes.

Give the Platinum Rule a shot [do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it], then revisist your premise.

Bobby
Guest
Bobby

Dreamgirl getting fucked in the bathroom of a bar while he was at the bar. I wonder what happened next. If that doesn’t unplug him….

Goldmund
Guest
Goldmund

Hey. I’m glad that me having sex in a bathroom sparked up so much interesting conversation, ha. As a quick follow up–I haven’t heard from either the Aussie guy or girl since this happened over a week ago. I didn’t even get the girls number. A big part of me believes that the girl was actively trying (although subconsciously) to teach the guy a lesson. When I brought up that he had paid for her way to New York, she said “oh god, I don’t wanna talk about it” and rolled her eyes. And while we were at the concert,… Read more »

Blaximus
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Blaximus

@ razorwire

Well goddamn.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Nice post Razorwire.

kfg
Guest
kfg

@Razorwire: Excellent! @Goldmund: “A big part of me believes that the girl was actively trying (although subconsciously) to teach the guy a lesson. When I brought up that he had paid for her way to New York, she said “oh god, I don’t wanna talk about it” and rolled her eyes.” She arrived in NY thinking, “I can manage this guy.” After he told her that he loved her she was thinking,”Oh Lord, how am I going to manage this guy?” When he pussy begged her, in public, she was thinking, “Ewwwwwwwwww! How the FUCK am I going to get… Read more »

Water Cannon Boy
Guest
Water Cannon Boy

And I’ll add, so men are hesitant to step out of the cave into the light out of normal fear of the unknown. The “why do my eyes hurt; because you’ve never used them” types. Others will call everyone a fool for leaving the cave as if they’ve been outside and have come back to tell their tales, but have never left the cave themselves.
One you can guide. The other don’t bother. Being left alone in the cave or a cave in forcing him out is about the only way.

Action J
Guest
Action J

Like women, most betas are disloyal and low-integrity at their core. For this reason, unless there is a relationship to preserve or a strategy to manage, it makes little sense to take the risk to “help” them.

Water Cannon Boy
Guest
Water Cannon Boy

“Being redpill you know and understand the true and dirty nature of women–they will do anything to fuck a guy they choose to fuck”
Might as well use that wide spread sense of entitlement to your advantage if you can.

newlyaloof
Guest

@Rollo, imagine a “www.rationalmale.com” billboard along, say, Route 95 in a major town. I’d imagine that would safely red pill a few people from afar.

kfg
Guest
kfg

“Give the Platinum Rule a shot [do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it], then revisist your premise.” Since I have invoked Charteris: “We’re leaving now,” said the Saint. He flung an arm round Patricia’s waist and turned her towards a path which led out of the clearing away from the embankment, a grass paved ride broad enough for them to walk abreast, and if she had been a few pounds lighter his exuberance would have swung her off her feet. Even after all those years of adventure in which they had been together he would… Read more »

palmasailor
Guest
palmasailor

I am red pill and I believe in it. That doesn’t mean I have any right lecturing anyone else in the same way no one blue pill has the right to lecture me. Being a Red Knight is never going to work. There’s too much institutional investment in the blue pill ideal. Guys need a compelling event to tip. I’ve been that Aussie, not transatlantic flights, but certainly drinks in a bar, and the woman has walked with another guy from under my nose despite my ‘investment’. The only difference is I spent less, it was the same gig. How… Read more »

Sentient
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Sentient

kfg

beach reading list – confirmed!

Newly

” imagine a “www.rationalmale.com” billboard along, say, Route 95 in a major town.” – very Tunneyesque

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Gofundme?

Novaseeker
Guest
Novaseeker

I don’t know if sharing a little red pill knowledge with that age group is smart or stupid ?

Do it.

I did it with my son when he was around that age (15), and it helped a lot when he had to deal with a girl the following year in school. Worst case is that the dads of the other kids will get pissed at you and stop letting them visit.

Anonymous Reader
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Anonymous Reader

This has been a great series. Not just for the cold facts, not only for the drama of Kid Jupiter in part 1, but it’s old home week with Ian Ironwood, Deti, WaterCannon, Razorwire etc. all dropping in. Good times.

dr zipper
Guest
dr zipper

I don’t often get to read a Razorwire comment, but when I do, I read it twice.

theasdgamer
Guest

@G I’ve seen similar behavior when girls have approached me at bars in full view of their boyfriend and flirt like hell just to get them jealous. I can relate…a hot girl with bf (supposedly, maybe she was lying about their relationship) in the bar bought me a drink to get me to do a country two-step (a lead/follow dance) with her and hang out at their table, but unlike you, I was the one who approached her and just started briefly freestyling with her at their table before doing the same thing with another girl at a nearby table…there… Read more »

newlyaloof
Guest

@Rollo, like Sentient said, gofundme with a few RT tweets about the billboardS from some big dogs friendly to the movement and you have national headlines.

newlyaloof
Guest

@Rollo, i’ll put in $50 for it.

newlyaloof
Guest

@Rollo, no way. Look what Cernovich tweeted about: https://counter.fund/

Neuronal Discourse
Guest

@Rollo “My purpose has always been to give men the tools they need to do that, but is it my obligation to do so?” No it isn’t. On an existential level your only obligation in life is to breathe air. But I’m willing to bet you feel compelled to give men such advice just from reading this blog. Learning the principles of Red Pill Awareness through blood, sweat, and tears is no small ordeal. Learning how to better yourself as a man and advance your position within a social hierarchy is something that most men don’t have it in them… Read more »

Novaseeker
Guest
Novaseeker

Razorwire — Great comment! Truth Seeker — In fact the thought that their paramour is not sinless is unthinkable, exposing women’s true nature makes most betas very angry. Yep, because their entire worldview and investment is trashed by it. It’s a pretty normal reaction. Only those with better self-awareness, drive, ambition, desire and discipline can power through that reaction to get to an acceptance of the truth. Lord only knows, we’ve seen many guys in the sphere get to the point of understanding the truth, but never getting past being angry about it. Most betas never even get to that… Read more »

Shiva
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Shiva

“What is painful to watch is how your buddies treated you after the break up. Saying things like they knew she was a horrible person, girl like always has guys on the go. You start wondering why the fuck they didn’t tell you all this before ? No one even dared to mentioned that she is cheater. Funny thing is a friend’s GF straight up told him my ex and I would not last.”

Othello

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

I think many Red Pill men get all confused about alpha, beta and how it all plays out in real life. A few thoughts: Pareto Principle and Distributions – It’s axiomatic in any field of endeavor that the people at the top will way outperform the bottom folks. 80% of the effects coming from 20% of the causes is a good way to think of it but it plays out in narrower distributions too. If you look in large organizations, you’ll see outsized contributions to outcomes by 1% of the people. If you don’t really understand this, do some Googling… Read more »

Trent Lane
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Trent Lane

@Rollo: Feel honored to be mentioned in the article. „Do we have an obligation to give Blue Pill men value“ There is no obligation whatsoever. How could there be and who obligates you? It‘s all voluntary and it can only be yourself. If Red Pill knowledge and game are providing you with real viable advantages in social and intergender dynamics only you yourself can and will have to decide what you are going to do with this and what you are willing to do. What your boundaries, what your ethics and what your code of morals is. Also you‘ll likely… Read more »

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Scribblerg

Alpha is social dominance. Period.

This is more how dogs view Alpha. Cats not as much. Now social status is very attractive to women. Social dominance may be attractive to some women, but as you describe it here not universally.

I’ll stick with the Alpha Triad traits as being the irreducible elements of What is Alpha?

https://newlyaloof.wordpress.com/2016/12/02/sentients-dynamic-passionate-authentic-framework/

Anthony Dream Johnson
Guest

>>My purpose has always been to give men the tools they need to do that, but is it my obligation to do so? This is something I’ve thought a lot about with 21 Studios, especially given the eventually-free nature of premium content. I addressed it explicitly in my most recent Miami talk. My thinking is this: your work is “making the world a better place”, especially for men, and in the context of an anti-masculine age. The “change the world/make the world better” phrase is severely over used today, so it sounds generic, vague, and pointless when you think about… Read more »

dr zipper
Guest
dr zipper

@scribblerg – I can agree with the 80/20 stuff, makes sense with my own observations. Then you go all black/white never/always yes/no and we diverge. We’re dealing in soft sciences here, no absolutes, context matters, subjectivity matters. One man’s alpha in a scenario of soldiers storming the hill can be a subdued loser at the chess club. So is he alpha or beta? In my own life, in certain situations I can walk into it and own it within minutes. Others, I shut up and listen more, maybe do as I’m told. So am I alpha or beta? And in… Read more »

Bromeo
Guest
Bromeo

“Having written about Red Pill awareness for as long as I have, I know there’s far more to this, but to an initiated reader, one steeped in Blue Pill conditioning, I fully understand why it would look like psychopathy.”

So I was right, kj still has a blue pill mindset.

newlyaloof
Guest

I’m thinking about the phrase “don’t tell guys about the Red Pill because some are not ready for it” and I’m wondering if that phrase would make any sense if it read “Don’t tell guys about college because some are not ready for it.” I think every guy should at least have heard of the word Red Pill just as they’ve heard of the word college. We’re prematurely discussing whether we should teach people a phrase that they don’t even know exists. In essence, we need to red pill the phrase “red pill” first. That’s what made me think of… Read more »

SFC Ton
Guest

Betas do beta shit becuase they are beta. An alpha can do the same shit and give off no beta reek. I see this regularly now that it’s terrorist season…. I mean tourist season. You can see the simp shuffling along all lifeless like with their ball and chain and brats running around and you can see the occasional alpha dad strutting around with his main bitch and fuck trophies on display. I reckon it like this, if you have to keep asking yourself is this alpha/ is this beta your shit is still weak. You’re on the move though,… Read more »

SFC Ton
Guest

My work is making the world my bitch. I don’t mind the competition and ever boss needs decent underlings so I have always tried to instill the Unreconstructed, Unapologetic and Unrepentant masculine mind set into the men around me. If for nothing else so they can understand the sheer joy of living totally balls out, freedom, fire power and FuckYeah!

SFC Ton
Guest

Not telling guys about the Red Pill becuase they aren’t ready for it and it might somehow come back and bit you on the ass seems like weak shit.

newlyaloof
Guest

@Ton, I understand, but I’m not talking about on a 1-to-1 consult here where the interpersonal can bite you on the ass. I’m talking about making the term go global so that it’s in the public conscience. Getting the term out isn’t teaching it. Think of it as as the marketing effort before the product launch. I’m tired as fuck right now, so I hope I’m making some sense here.

SFC Ton
Guest

I get it New, but ain’t interested in global etc

Fred Flange, GBFC (Great Books For Cucks)
Guest
Fred Flange, GBFC (Great Books For Cucks)

Like @Palma I won’t lecture anyone on what they should do just as I know I won’t listen to anyone try to lecture me on being a nice guy. (Especially where in the bad old days I’d listen to the nice guy gospel, try to SNAG it up, fail, and be told I was doing it wrong, do it more, more FAIL). But I can push back a little, and I have had some success dropping odd tasty nougats here and there. When I can. But I’m not preaching any evangel. Not my yob. I once gave a good dose… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

@SFC Ton:

There’s only so much room in the brig to keep real marines.

Gunner Q
Guest
Gunner Q

ianironwood @ June 5, 2017 at 8:36 pm
“While it’s sad, it’s also sadly predictable, particularly in the workplace. Unless you want to Red Knight or Black Knight, keeping a low profile and a cordial, remote attitude is recommended.”

My experience as well. The best you should do for Blue Pill coworkers is treat them like drowning victims. Throw them some help, they’ll either grab it or not, but never take your own feet off solid ground.

Ilijas Jung Deutscher Red Pill Blog
Guest

What you give is what you get. Always. That’s the Golden Rule in all cultures and the Metaphysical Truth. You have the responsibility to make the best of yourself. Like every living thing. And cultivating your psyche is just part of that process of becoming better at interacting with your surroundings. My appeal to all Red Pill Aware men: Get more Red Pill Aware! Max it all out! Reap the gifts and share your gift wherever you can. The limit of helping everyone around you is met where the cosmic returns diminish by you damaging yourself by arousing hostility that… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

@Rollo

My purpose has always been to give men the tools they need to do that, but is it my obligation to do so

You’re waxing philosophical.

Why would anyone think that you have an obligation? A duty is entailed by an ethical or moral code. How does anyone know what ethical or moral code constrains you, if any?

theasdgamer
Guest

@Ton Not telling guys about the Red Pill becuase they aren’t ready for it and it might somehow come back and bit you on the ass seems like weak shit. You have the capacity to break men down so that they need you to be their Good Samaritan and teach them the Red Pill. You got those skills from your life in the military. Very few if any men here have those same skills. I won’t ask you to do bleeding edge physics (which I did once upon a time) if you don’t ask me to break men down so… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

asdgamer, Rollo has laid an obligation upon himself. This should be obvious.

Boxcar
Guest
Boxcar

Thanks Rollo… in the previous comments section, Ton clearly showed the absurdity of my “alpha traits vs beta traits” thinking. Obviously alpha men are going to do “beta” stuff, like hold a 9-5 job, take out the trash, feel sentimental emotions. What makes him alpha, from Rollo’s telling, is the overall frame of his relationships, particularly with women. Once you’ve got that down, you can take up knitting or whatever.. I agree with what guys are saying about men’s general lack of receptivness to TRP, except in cases where they are getting hurt. Rollo does a great job explaining the… Read more »

SFC Ton
Guest

Legit point Gamer which is why I try to avoid giving advice to certian men here. I simply can’t related and you know I have mad respect for folks who can do and create some of this science shit

However I do think most men here would benefit from being a tad more brash when they are out in about in the world.

SFC Ton
Guest

Glad I could help Boxcar. Don’t forget the not being discouraged part and look, it ain’t all your fualt either. Lots of folks try to put a negative spin on alpha and it takes some time to shit can that bit of false thinking too

walawala
Guest
walawala

@Goldmund I’ve been in similar situations. In your blog your write that the situation may have gotten you banned from future group outings because it put the hosts on the spot. I’ve learned now that while the low hanging fruit may be tempting…going for it in such a brazen manner doesn’t win you any points with others around you. Here we’re debating the lessons of it. But in my own experience I’m now super discrete about bouncing a girl from a party where everyone is watching and notes who’s with whom, who’s leaving with whom. I think the girls I… Read more »

walawala
Guest
walawala

@Sentient/IAS Part of that fear I describe is borne out of a series of experiences where people hate on my success with women. When i’m late 40’s banging girls in their 20’s…it’s not exactly going to earn me points with Blue Pill guys struggling in their marriages or divorced guys where the best they can do is some wall-hitting man-hater….or younger guys who should be banging girls in their 20’s.

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