The Utility of Beta Men – Part II

Before I get started today I thought I’d relate a few things to think about from the first installment of this series.

No Neutral Balance

Reader Boxcar had a pertinent comment on last week’s thread:

Frankly, losing the “beta” qualities would make it difficult to live a happy, successful and fulfilling life. But they have become stigmatized because they are associated with men being used by women.

I used to lock horns about the necessity of Beta traits with Athol Kay on Married Man Sex Life back before women took over his messaging. The problem with this idea is that 80%+ of men in a feminine-primary social order, that has systematically engineered a majority of men to be predominantly Betas, possess all these Beta behavioral and psychological attributes in spades.

As such, there will always be a gross overemphasis on the value of those aspects. I don’t believe in a balance of Alpha to Beta traits. It’s my opinion that men should make Alpha traits their predominant, default set, only expressing Beta traits as necessary to maintain a minimum comfort level – and even then, this comfort level should only be apparent to reinforce a necessary anxiety level for a woman’s continued interest in a man.

Also, I believe there needs to be a distinction between Alpha and Beta behavioral sets and Alpha and Beta mindsets. Most men today are raised into a Beta mindset and this manifests in their behaviors. Vice versa for Alpha mindsets. However, that isn’t to say that a man of a predominantly Alpha mindset can’t deliberately display a Beta attribute in order to serve his own ends. Same with Beta men displaying a Alpha attributes. The problem with this lies in what is congruent with the overall perception of that man’s status to a woman.

In the case of the Australian guy whom Goldmund schooled in last week’s post, the woman already had a preconceived understanding that his mindset was that of a Beta. Had he displayed some brief “flash of Alpha” it would’ve seemed inauthentic and incongruous with her preconception. However, going from an Alpha preconception to a brief “flash of Beta” can be endearing and affirming for a woman.

Ergo, there is no neutral balance of Alpha and Beta that a woman will ever find attractive in a man. His mindset and behaviors must be predominantly and consistently Alpha to hold her Hypergamous sexual and relational interests. While occasional, strategic and brief expressions of a Beta-like trait are necessary for comfort, there is no advantage in a man trying to maintain some equilateral balance of Alpha to Beta, and if anything it only serves to confuse a woman about her estimate of your status. Moments of Vulnerability can be reassuring for women, but only when that vulnerability is uncharacteristic for a predominantly Alpha man.

Relational Equity

One very common hindbrain presumption most well-trained Betas have is a that their emotional, financial and loyalty investments in a woman will be appreciated and reciprocated by the women they invest in. This ‘pre’-sumption is integral to a mindset founded on the old books social contract. Beta men’s approach to intimacy going in already expects a woman to appreciate his investing in her as some quality that sets him apart from “typical guys who just want to bang her”.

So, when when a guy like Goldmund effortlessly seduces the woman that Aussie Guy has been investing so much into (like all-expense paid trips) it represent two very frustrating realities for him. The first, as I mentioned, is the destruction of his ego-investment in his old books mindset. The second is the sense of loss of so much relational investment he was trying to figure out how to get a return on. All of the preconditions he believed were necessary to get this woman’s intimacy are tossed out of the window when Goldmund arrives and she willingly and (to him) unconditionally becomes sexual with him.

He believed he had to earn her sex, but in no uncertain terms, along comes a guy who did almost nothing to earn it and she reflexively responds to him with sex. In prior posts I’ve proposed that women will break rules for Alpha men while creating and imposing new/more rules for Beta men to access her sexuality. I would expand this to say that Beta men will, via their preconditioning, impose those rules upon themselves before they even meet a woman with whom to invest themselves in.

The presumption of relational equity comes before a Beta even has a woman to invest in. This is the source of Aussie guy’s frustration. I covered this dynamic in Prewhipped and Betas in Waiting.

Giving Value

Commenter Trent Lane had an excellent insight about what ought or ought not to be a Red Pill aware man’s duty to his fellow, unenlightened Blue Pill man.

Ethic responsibilities in a red pill paradigm for those who are not in it is an interesting concept. If we all accept Red Pill principles like Hypergamy, AF/BB and so on as truth (which most of us do, since we‘re here) and as you advance in Game you see, know and can do more with social and intergender dynamics than 99% of the men around you.

You can use this for destruction and mayhem. You can use this to selfishly get your needs met with zero fucks given about anyone. Or you can use it to get your needs met AND give value to the people you interact with.

The question is, why should you?
The answer is, aside from metaphysical reasons like religion, Karma and so forth, in which you can chose to believe or not: you mainly do it for yourself.

By fucking others up this way you fuck yourself up. Is it possible to go down the route of destruction this way with zero fucks given about anyone and lead a happy, fulfilled life long term? Probably for some. More likely you‘ll end up fucked yourself, without purpose, unable to ever satisfy your raging narcissistic urges, burning out and getting more and more shallow as you chase the next kick.

Giving value makes you happier than taking value. It sounds corny like a cliche, but if long term happiness in life is your concern, it‘s true.

I’m going to jump off here because this comment speaks to what I want to cover next in this series – dealing with Blue Pill men in a Red Pill aware man’s life. Just as I’m inclined to tell guys of the MGTOW persuasion that there really is no exiting the game, so too is it next to impossible for the Red Pill aware man to insulate himself from having to deal with, work with, relate to, men who are thoroughly invested in a Blue Pill defined existence.

In the first part of this series I mentioned how Blue Pill orbiters are often an untapped resource of social proof for a Red Pill aware man. Sometimes all it takes to stand out in the crowd is to simply allow the mediocre to display their status and be ready to capitalize on it. It’s like the part of Game where once you get to attraction all you have to do is not fuck things up. That’s not to say Game doesn’t take effort, it does, but when you have a connection with a woman who herself has orbiters’ attention in spades it easy to see that her attraction cues and ego are built around quality not quantity.

I also mentioned in last week’s essay that actively AMOGing these guys can actually be counterproductive to Game. Women may not ever want to bang their orbiters or really have them mean anything more that easy attention, but on the same note they likely don’t want to have anything too cruel happen to them. Fortunately there are ‘lightest touch’ ways to use these guys’ inability (or willful rejection) to really embrace Red Pill awareness to your advantage if you have the art. There’s a tendency to want to help these orbiters, but I would say the real test is having the confidence to use them as SMV comparisons. Adopting an Amused Mastery with an orbiter is one such method – building social proof by artfully pointing out their Beta Game strategies. The risk you run is women taking this as arrogance on your part, at first, until that Beta confirms your measured analysis of him.

Betas at Work

One of the most arduous aspects of modern work life is having to cooperate with well-conditioned Blue Pill men. God forbid you have a business partner or a boss with whom your financial wellbeing depends. I would argue that the single most dangerous environment in which to attempt to ‘help’ a Blue Pill man with Red Pill awareness is in the workplace. For all the talk of mythical “glass ceilings” and back room boys clubs, modern corporate culture has been at the mercy of the Feminine Imperative’s influence for several decades now. This social environment was a Male Space that was invaded long ago by feminine-primary interests, but for the sake of this discussion I’d have readers consider the following: imagine a Blue Pill conditioned Beta who’s been educated and acculturated in feminine primacy (as equality) for the better part of his lifetime. Now, take that guy and put him into a workplace social structure, steeped in feminine-primary work laws, HR departments and corporate bylaws (all designed to avoid charges of endemic workplace sexism). Finally, base that man’s livelihood, the health of his marriage and the future wellbeing of his children on how well he adheres to that feminine-primary office culture and you get a guy who’s a veritable time bomb for any Red Pill aware coworker.

This reminds me of a great article in the Telegraph about how men are so afraid of sexual harassment accusations they resist the urge to extend the most basic courtesies to women in the workplace.

Elsesser cites examples of men who have been dragged in by their HR departments for simply opening a door for a female colleague or complimenting her on a new suit. “Stories like these spread around workplaces, instilling a fear that innocent remarks will be misinterpreted,” she says.

The upside to this situation is that a Red Pill savvy man can use the predictable foreknowledge of how a Blue Pill colleague will respond to various workplace circumstances to his advantage. While it may be prudent to accommodate that guy’s Blue Pill mindset at work, it also presents some opportunities to use Red Pill awareness and Game in a context that can advance your career. Female bosses are still female, and as noted earlier, the same dynamics you can use to ping social proof from a Blue Pill orbiter can similarly be used with a Blue Pill coworker and a female supervisor.

If you know a guy is trapped in a Blue Pill marriage, odds are he’s in a dead bedroom situation. If he’s got kids, especially a newborn, it’s fairly easy to predict his life priorities based on what we know of his Blue Pill mindset. Happy wife, happy life is probably his ego-investment. There’s quite a lot you can read from a Blue Pill coworker or supervisor, and as a Red Pill aware man, this puts you at a strategic advantage in the workplace. As such you are not at the disadvantage he is and can opt in on work opportunities his mindset and his life’s resultant conditions wont permit him to.

As a side note here, I should also mention that being Red Pill aware has various advantages in dealing with women in the workplace too. In the same vein as the Blue Pill supervisor, it’s important to get a ‘read’ on a female boss and how she interacts with male and female subordinates. Corporate culture is often the most visceral teacher when it comes to understanding intrasexual competition amongst women. However, as a Red Pill aware man we can also apply our predictive Red Pill Lens towards what most women in the workplace are experiencing in their lives. We know the common dissatisfaction professional women experience when it comes to their personal lives. We also know that even the married ones are likely to be discontent with husbands whom they can never feel comfortable in submitting themselves to – especially after 8-10 hours at an office where lesser men must submit to her and the greater men she is beholden to don’t see her as anything but an instrument for their own success. The trick is using this tactical understanding to your own benefit by getting inside their heads and making female nature work for you.

So, after all this we’re left with a few of considerations. The first is the degree of calculated risk a Red Pill man is comfortable in taking with a Blue Pill colleague. Even if the guy is a personal friend, there is always a risk that using your Red Pill Lens with him can backfire on you. There’s only one thing worse than a woman scorned and that’s a deeply committed Blue Pill guy who’s just had his mindset used against him by a superior player. Most will pass it off as the result of an unfair life, but others, the less stable Blue Pill guys, they can have an explosive potential.

Then there is the ever present ethical considerations that will always dog this question – should you do it? If Goldmund’s story from last week’s essay was an object lesson in mate poaching it was also a subjective lesson in the ethical consideration of it too. Much of what constitutes attractiveness in men to women is found on the Dark Triad personality traits. Sometimes Red Pill awareness and Game application gets called an education in psychopathy. Having written about Red Pill awareness for as long as I have, I know there’s far more to this, but to an initiated reader, one steeped in Blue Pill conditioning, I fully understand why it would look like psychopathy.

Now the question is, does a Red Pill man use his awareness to his advantage outside of the intersexual realm? In the case of using it with a female supervisor that might be an easy, yes, but in the case of using a Blue Pill man’s handicap of his mindset that answer may be subjective by order of degree. Even if there is no malice involved, and even if just by fact of having that awareness, a Red Pill man has a distinct advantage over men given to a Blue Pill belief set and their resultant life conditions.

So the question might be, are we our Beta brother’s keepers? Do we have an obligation to give Blue Pill men value or does that idea end where that man’s capacity to accept what Red Pill awareness offers him end? Obviously I have two books and five and a half years of blog posts all written with the intent of ultimately unplugging Blue Pill men and making them aware of the true nature of intersexual dynamism. My purpose has always been to give men the tools they need to do that, but is it my obligation to do so?

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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@Dr. Zipper “Within the context of my own MPO, I would like to leave this world better than I found it. Call it a legacy, but really it’s just a hopeful goal in my list of goals and acts like a guideline when it comes to decision time. But really, how many options do I really have to do that?” I think we are called to do that, to make things just a little better, or at least *I* think that’s a worth goal, if not disheartening because of all the pricks trying to tear shit down around us. We… Read more »

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@Blaximus I get you. Never a jock myself, but whether it was board or video games or just social dynamics, if you do NOT play people better than you, you will not improve. Got it. Yes, competition is nature’s way of get your ass in gear and she does not hand out participation trophies. My point is that Red Pill is about *telling the truth*, as unpleasant as it usually is. My point in bringing up the 80/20 pyramid is to lay out the ugly truth. You can compete all you want, and you can make progress, but someone is… Read more »

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Off Topic:

Hey Rollo. Would love to read an essay from you on the topic of this gentleman. Feminized AF but evidently with a legion of adoring female fans. What’s going on here from a red pill perspective? https://www.instagram.com/valentin_winter/

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Lol.

” vampire prince ” says it all.

lately, bitches looovvveeee vampires. And werewolves. And bdsm with billionaires. And blahblahblah.

LEX
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@Blaximus hahahahaha

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Yes we’re obligated. We’re prophets whom the truth chose. It also improves your persuasion and communication skills; these betas, if they convert, will look up to you. Good for the ego I guess.

@rollo
“Just as I’m inclined to tell guys of the MGTOW persuasion that there really is no exiting the game”

The game is a hotel you’re automatically checked into, and you can never leave.

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@anon Civilization and nations are two very different things. Nations are put together and stay together because of force (see European history for various examples or Philip of Macedon). The institutions of nations and city-states (what we think of as “civilization”) are put in place because of distrust. You had city-state civilizations before you had nations. Trust only exists within small tribes. Trust can only exist within relationships. Of course, civilization may attack things that may have previously engendered trust (e.g., the FI attacked marriage), so that some kinds of trust aren’t even possible within small tribes. In marriage, for… Read more »

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“Rubbing salt in his psychic wounds…not so much.”

It’s harder to get the attention of some donkeys than others.

Q: How do you know you are wounded?

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“Nations are put together and stay together because of force . . .”

Q: Why does the term “Nation State” exist?
A: Because “Nation” and “State” mean two different things.

In the modern parlance the idea of nation has been subsumed into the idea of “Ethnicity.” A nation is a super tribe. Nations are created from the bottom up. Israel was a nation when it had a total population of 70, composed of 12 tribes, living in the Land of Goshen (Goshen is a country, not a nation or a state).

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“Trust only exists within small tribes. Trust can only exist within relationships. Of course, civilization may attack things that may have previously engendered trust (e.g., the FI attacked marriage), so that some kinds of trust aren’t even possible within small tribes.” There are different levels of trust. The highest level (“I’d trust that guy with my life”) is earned. But we interact daily with far too many people, directly but especially indirectly, for society to work on a “trust earned” basis. Our communities, roads, schools, neighborhoods, state and nation are replete with examples. I order some ammo and I expect… Read more »

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Nice, @kfg.

“Q: How do you know you are wounded?”

A: Awareness. (whether communicated to oneself through sight or mind)

Hence, the genesis of our term “painfully aware….”

Aussie was ‘aware’ of nothing; he was (and probably still is) only ‘feeling’ (obfuscated by) his own reflexive anger.

Sometimes there isn’t a ball of tuna fish that’s tasty enough to shove the red pill down the I’m-feeling-healthy-and-you’re-making-me-pissed cat’s throat.

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“….living in the Land of Goshen…(Goshen is a country, not a nation or a state).”

On the eastern delta of De Nile (De Nile is one of the states of Grief after swallowing the Red Pill)

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@AP:

I have a scar on my right knee. I did not know I was wounded until some time after it happened.

Because there was no pain.

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@kfg

“Rubbing salt in his psychic wounds…not so much.”

It’s harder to get the attention of some donkeys than others.”

Cutting off the leg off the donkey certainly gets his attention, but then you have a donkey not useful for much.

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Your idea about nations being held together only by force is too simplistic. Take for example Spain versus Catalonia. If Catalonia votes to become its own nation separate from the rest of Spain, Spain might use force to prevent them leaving. And so Catalonia might use force to accomplish their goal of national independence. Perhaps it’s more true to say that the less force required to maintain the political existence of a Nation, the more consistent with human morality and dignity it is. Greater Spain, like an Empire, has to use or threaten to use a hell of a lot… Read more »

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@kfg

“Because there was no pain.”

Exactly. But also true when there is (i.e. the needle/splinter in the brain)

Who hasn’t seen a happy child run home with blooddied knees, only to see the horror on his parents’ faces, only to then look down and wail (ostensibly in pain)?

Again, awareness.

The donkey with three legs will continue to work just fine (maybe at a bit slower pace) provided you give it enough of a timeline to heal….

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@Seraph:

Well, you don’t want to eat a donkey like that all at once.

@jsolbakken:

Catalonian is already a separate nation. That’s why it has desires, like Portugal, to be a separate state. That Spain ever became a state in the first place is really rather remarkable. You could think of it as The Balkans of the West. There is nothing in its geography or history that lends to it. If Ferdinand and Isabella, two rather remarkable people in their own right, hadn’t gotten married, Spain never would have been.

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To say that Catalonia is already a “nation” begs the question. I agree that the moral and spiritual identity of a “people” is what inspires the desire for nationhood, but that desire in and of itself is not the same as actually being a Nation. It seems to me that Catalan’s will have to kill and maim many Spaniards if they want to actualize their independent national identity. Which is fine by me, I would try to stay out of it and let them settle their own problems.

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P.S.

It should be noted that part of the nation of Catalonia is in the state of France, due the geographic issues noted above. The Pyrenees are a virtually impassible barrier except at the coasts.

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I forgot to say that I don’t buy this difference between nation and state in this context. My understanding is that Catalan is already a “state” within the nation of Spain, sort of the way Gruberfornia is a state within the United States of America. And just like Catalonia there is a movement in Gruberfornia to break away and become the Nation of Gruberfornia. As a Grubefornian I do not support this because I don’t want to live under the complete control of the bat excrement crazy Marxist scum who run the place now. I’d support the US Army invading… Read more »

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And there is not, nor has there ever been, a nation of Spain (nor a “Spanish” language. “Spanish” is the language of the Castilian nation, imposed by force on Iberia, which is a country). It is a synthetic state imposed by force on many nations.

You do not grasp the concept “Nation” (see “Ethnicity”).

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“I don’t buy this difference between nation and state in this context.”

Your eyes still hurt, because you haven’t been using them long enough yet.

I have commented before that one of the “generational” differences I see in American culture is those who remember the creation of member states and those who do not.

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I think our argument is more about the semantics of what to call things like “Spain,” and “Catalonia,” and “Gruberfornia,” and the “USA.” I think that a political entity that has high ethnic and linguistic and social homogeneity is a good candidate for political independence, and a political entity that has too much heterogeneity will never be anything besides an Empire. Using Rome as an example, as Rome became more and more heterogenous, it became less and less able to maintain its form as a Republic and was almost forced to become an Empire in the political sense. And as… Read more »

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I wonder how we explain the longevity and stability of a place like Switzerland, which has so much linguistic and ethnic and even religious heterogeneity? I’d say that it was spiritual and moral homogeneity that keeps it together. Just like the USA was supposed to be held together by our universal love of liberty under limited government. There is evidence that shared political values can overcome all these other carnal considerations, if people are of a higher mental and moral consciousness. If people are ignorant and animalistic, the less able they will be to think in spiritual terms and will… Read more »

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“I think our argument is more about the semantics . . .” If you think your parents are a matter of semantics. The United States of America is not a nation state. It isn’t even, properly speaking, a state. It’s a federation, like Switzerland (which is a federation of four nations, only one of which is native to the country. Your ideas of “state” and “nation” were fed to you by the Matrix. You may have unplugged, but you are not yet adapted. You need to do some more looking at things with your own eyes before you will figure… Read more »

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@jsolbakken wrote

“and a political entity that
has too much heterogeneity will never be anything besides an Empire.”

Anything besides? So what do you call the EU?

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Addendum: “If you think your parents are a matter of semantics.”

As the current programming being fed into the Matrix is intended that you should. Feminism is about far more than it appears on the surface. Scribbler’s rants about the politics of it are not wrong, just targeted poorly when he addresses them here.

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I’m a Christian who believe the Bible when it says that Jesus Christ is calling His sheep out of every Tribe and Tongue and People and Nation. It’s not as important to me to identify and categorize where people came from as it is to understand where it is we are going, which is to a place where there is no Jew or Greek, rich or poor, free or bond, male or female, no barbarians, no Scythians, but where all are one in Christ Jesus. That is my overall context. It’s just a lot easier to have an intelligent discussion… Read more »

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@jsol Nations are always held together by force because they are always composed of different tribes. The force may be military (a type of political force) or political or financial or familial (as in held together by a political marriage). There can be cultural bonds and ethnic bonds as well. Hence Switzerland…lots of ethnic and cultural bonds, even with four different languages. Much more homogeneous than the U.S. Still, I imagine that there’s lots of political horsetrading there to keep everybody happy and not thinking about going off on their own. If Switzerland had more resources, you’d see France, Germany,… Read more »

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@anon

What you call “lesser degree of trust” I’d simply call “expectations based on normal human behavior”.

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Oh, I call the EU a Very Evil Empire, about as artificial as such a construct can get; much more artificial than the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, and in some ways much more sinister and dangerous. There is no “national identity” that could possibly support the existence of the Globalists EUtopian dream. EUtopia is to me a horrible nightmare. Anyone who thinks the USA and Spain are not proper nations, no way could they think the EU should exist.

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@Seraph: Well, you don’t want to eat a donkey like that all at once.” So, your intent is not to help, but devour. Good to know. In an earlier comment, I acknowledged that was certainly one of the options when considering what to do when dealing with BP men. I was just a little confused because your earlier post suggested you wanted to help and were just employing some very tough love. I concede than cannibalizing fellow men is certainly very tough love… @kfg/Ajax “Because there was no pain.” Exactly. But also true when there is (i.e. the needle/splinter in… Read more »

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“It’s just a lot easier to have an intelligent discussion if we know what each other means when we use words. Words do not have innate meanings, they have agreed upon meanings which can change over time or with context.”

See Orwell’s depiction of how the Matrix works.

Your words, and hence your beliefs, are not Biblical. They are Feminist Theory. It isn’t enough to read Dalrock, you have to have be able to understand what he’s saying.

But the Matrix has corrupted your language, and hence your ability to understand it, and it has done so deliberately to achieve that end.

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“The pain is the most real, understandable thing to him. What is not understandable, and what makes his suffering worse, is not understanding what LED him to this little hell. He has no idea how he ended up in hell, but he is sure as shit aware he is in it.”

I have already noted that that is now his biggest dilemma.

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Thought this was interesting:
http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/the-crazy-sociology-experiment-buried-in-russian-game-show/
Russian Who Wants To Be A Millionaire contestants avoid asking the audience because they expect audience members to deliberately mislead them.

By contrast (in general, at present) we are a society that takes general pleasure when we see another person within our society succeed. By contrast, Russia seems to have the opposite perspective. I’m sure this extends to communities within societies at large.
Here is a chart that illustrates pretty sharply what happens to a community with escalating fatherlessness. See the timeline. This is all related:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/07/18/chart-of-the-week-the-black-white-gap-in-incarceration-rates/

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I said that the meanings of words must be agreed upon. So it can’t logically be the case that “my” language is corrupted, it has to be the case that “our” language is corrupted. Newspeak was supposed to be the corruption of language in order to prevent intelligent thoughts not only from being communicated, but to prevent them from being thought in the first place. I have words in my head that help me organize my thoughts, but because our mutual language is corrupted, we have a hard time communicating our thoughts coherently. I’m trying to overcome this problem by… Read more »

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” . . . it can’t logically be the case that “my” language is corrupted . . .”

You have missed the import of the language being corrupted deliberately.

As an American citizen, you wouldn’t vote against calling the US a Democratic Republic, training in Critical Thinking to enhance individual decision making and Participatory Democracy, would you?

As a man who desires Peace, you wouldn’t vote against War, would you?

As a human being you wouldn’t deny that gender can be fluid, would you?

As a man who would like to get laid, you wouldn’t deny that you are a misogynistic rapist, would you?

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From the dictionary:

nation; a large aggregate of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language

ethnicity; the state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition.

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@Seraph wrote “Ok, so, a little perplexed how anyone imagines a donkey with three legs will be useful for much of anything, but be that as it may, even you concede that it will be diminished, less than it was, so that seems contrary to the idea of helping BP men *improve*. You don’t ‘improve’ the donkey by removing a limb. You let it live. Yayyyy!” O come now. Now you’re thinking too literal. If the world took donkey metaphors like kfg’s, analogies and parables literally, the Bible’s Jesus would not have the 2000-year-old juice he maintains today. “Wow, what… Read more »

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Damn. Another ” study ” that I’m not included in. * sad face * @ anon The problem is equality of opportunity. Not ‘ outcome’, but opportunity. I’ve avoided long term unemployment by diversification of my skill sets. This was not easy, and the bulk was done without traditional’ formal ‘ education. Figured shit out. For the past 2 decades I’ve made the 80 mile round trip commute to my job, as local prospect were almost non existent. Right now there is a long running battle in my city for the port to at least try to hire more locally… Read more »

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Respectfully, Blaximus…have you thought of moving? Two decades is a long, long time to make an 80 mile commute.

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“I believe the tipping point is well passed. Any problem that becomes mult generational is damn near impossible to ever rectify.”

Lot of that going around these days.

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@Seraph wrote “Aussie guy knew he was in pain, KNEW he was psychically wounded, and he certainly knew the proximate cause, which is being ‘jilted’ by a girl in a most dramatic fashion. He was very aware he was wounded, and his actions show it.” And you went inside his head and you discovered he had psychic pain just from GU’s recounting? Or was it more that he was pissed off and angry at their behaviors? Again, awareness. Yes, he was aware of his own reflexive anger, but I highly doubt he is even today aware of that splinter pain… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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“Exactly. He was unaware of his “real” wounding. And that was the whole point.”

He won’t take the necessary steps to treat it until the pain becomes sufficiently intense. We can only hope his chosen method of intervention is Google and not Smith & Wesson.

Seraph
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@kfg ** “The pain is the most real, understandable thing to him. What is not understandable, and what makes his suffering worse, is not understanding what LED him to this little hell. He has no idea how he ended up in hell, but he is sure as shit aware he is in it.” “I have already noted that that is now his biggest dilemma.” ** Great. A Non-sequitur, but great. @Ajax **”And you went inside his head and you discovered he had psychic pain just from GU’s recounting? Or was it more that he was pissed off and angry at… Read more »

Culum Struan
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Culum Struan
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I don’t think the Aussie guy could really have done anything to restore his status in the girl’s mind, irrespective of how he responded to Goldmund banging her. He’s too far gone in the orbiter/friend zone. But what he should have done to preserve his self-respect and begin the journey to regaining it (SELF-respect – not her respect) is simply done his best to be unaffected by it AND stopped being her orbiter. Not cancel her ticket back to Australia or anything butthurt like that. But stopped serving her and hoping for her to respond to his investment. Ideally stopped… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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” . . .what he should have done to preserve his self-respect and begin the journey to regaining it (SELF-respect – not her respect) is simply done his best to be unaffected by it AND stopped being her orbiter.”

There ya go.

theasdgamer
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I have a new take on AussieBozo’s claim to the girl. If we respect other men’s claims to girls, where does it end? Do our male friends get to call dibs on all the girls they want to bang? Do we have to respect all those claims? And if we say that our male friends can only call dibs on one girl, then aren’t we implicitly supporting Oneitis?

Ajax Parallax
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@Seraph None taken. Likewise, I do not find this comment logical, which started this whole exchange: “I already said bringing the hurt to Aussie guy to give him a chance to see the light was a GOOD thing. Rubbing salt in his psychic wounds…not so much.” How did Goldmund rub salt? He mentioned to his host to tell Aussie about TRM and left. Salt would be handing Aussie her torn panties and saying, “D;day, mate, I just shagged the girl you are in love with. How’s it feel?” I was also being devil’s advocate to your concern for Aussie’s ‘psychic… Read more »

Seraph
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“I don’t think the Aussie guy could really have done anything to restore his status in the girl’s mind, irrespective of how he responded to Goldmund banging her. He’s too far gone in the orbiter/friend zone.” Absolutely. He’s been poured into it with concrete. “But what he should have done to preserve his self-respect and begin the journey to regaining it (SELF-respect – not her respect) is simply done his best to be unaffected by it AND stopped being her orbiter.” Realistically, I think the latter is far easier than the former in the moment. If he could be that… Read more »

Seraph
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@Ajax, Okay, went back to read Goldmund’s blog account. Here’s where the confusion lies. When he wrote: “At this point, I despised him, especially after my friend informed me that he had referred to me as ‘a creepy predator’, and wanted to teach him a lesson that stung.” I did NOT connect the sex in the bathroom incident to that statement. Perhaps I read it too fast. That is my fault, but I presumed that Goldmund was going to fuck her anyway based on the interactions. What I took the statement above as he *wanted* to teach him a lesson,… Read more »

Seraph
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Seraph
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Should have wrote:

“But you made a fair point that I was not clear in that later comment.”

kfg
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kfg
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“My original point I still hold to, which is there IS a point at which piling on is fucked up, cruel and potentially hazardous. But you made a fair point that I was not clear in that comment.”

Good on ya.

“Okay, went back to read Goldmund’s blog account.”

Pay attention to the very critical point (which most of us “knew,” but the confirmation is important) in the follow up, where he asked her how long it had been since she’d had sex.

Ajax Parallax
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@Seraph No harm, no foul. That’s the beauty of this forum. In fact, I would argue that (any contributor) not getting butthurt in the heat of TRM’s kitchen is an indicator of masculine maturity. Hard to do sometimes with this motley crew, but good exercise nonetheless. Thanks for your clarification that Goldmund did not salt the wound. He gave every chance … asked her if Aussie was her husband. Nope, “Oh, no, he’s just a friend.” Can’t give more of an opening than that. When’s the last time you had sex? ‘O god, it’s been too long … months…’ Fair… Read more »

hank holiday
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hank holiday
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@immoralgables yeah dude post your shit up in the field report section if you’ve got any FRs. Don’t have to be recent. I remember reading your shit in the yareally archives a while back. remember something about a russian chick in NYC. man its been awhile, but I remember. anyway I wish ya and scray would post here again, but it is what it is. and the more guys we have going out there the better. I’ll be out doing more soon myself. I got fucked over by heath issues so I havent done much recently, really this whole year… Read more »

SFC Ton
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Did assuie cuck call dibs?

Seraph
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@Ajax, So, I still think you are wildly mistaken with this pain thing with the guy, and you seem to be attempting some verbal and logical contortions here to support it. From Goldmund’s account: “The Australian guy stood next to the girl while I walked closer to the front, and after the first song, I looked back and waved her over. She came right away and the guy glared at me like I was Satan…. We went to the back of the venue, and my friend came up to me and said “hey man, listen, that guy is really upset… Read more »

Seraph
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@Ajax,

If that is the case, then explain to me how and why BP men stumble onto RP thought when searching for answers if no one is guiding that they NEED to look for answers, and why look for answers in the first place if they are not experiencing any pain in the first place? Why do they not continue forever in their BP loop, bumping into situations again and again until they drop dead.

Really trying to understand your thinking on this.

Culum Struan
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Culum Struan
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@hank – glad your health issues are starting to look up. Next Blitz starts in about ten days (it’s been a long break between Blitzes, because I had to cancel my last planned trip to the big city). I’m not going to be posting daily FRs though. I don’t think it is a good use of my time or everyone’s time here to simply re-read variations of the same “I had IOIs but I froze up and didn’t approach/didn’t close” FR that I’ve been doing for ages now. I’ll only post if I’ve made progress or something new happens –… Read more »

theasdgamer
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I couldn’t give a shit if AussieBozo called dibs…the questions were for guys who care about that shit

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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Dibs? Wtf?

If a chick isn’t interested, and he can’t even spark interest or sexual Attraction, fuck his dibs.

theasdgamer
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Blax, if you were single and some player in your social circle was sparking interest in multiple hot chicks and calling dibs on all them, would you pay attention to his dibs?

kfg
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kfg
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@Seraph: Not every pain is of the same intensity. Some have greater tolerance for pain than others. Not every pain is treated with an intervention. Most interventions are analgesic, not curative. They reduce the perception of pain to the level of tolerance. I have referred before to a friend of mine who spent 20 years as a drug counselor. He could write up an initial assessment by asking one simple question: “What is your drug of choice?” The answer told him what their pain was and he could then go directly after the source of the pain. If he could… Read more »

SFC Ton
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SFC Ton
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My drug of choice is testosrone…. well actually whinny and tren E with some mast thrown in and only about 400mgs of tes

SFC Ton
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SFC Ton
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Dibs is the corner stone of play ground civilization and the point is to call dibs on all the hotties then bang them

anon01
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anon01
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“Weeny Free HTML TO PDF Converter” or “HTML To PDF”

Are good online “apps” for downloading websites. I’ve used the second one for YaReally’s archive, but unfortunatelly, I’m in a web-cafe and can’t upload it.

Blaximus
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@ ASD

If a man in my social circle sparked attraction with a particular chick, etiquette says to not compete with him.

But there’s no way in hell any guy is gonna call dibs on every hottie and be taken seriously. Not happening.

Blaximus
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One morning in my tiny apartment –

” omg, I was drunk. You took advantage of me. I never do things like that!!! I have to get dressed….where are my panties??? ”

Ummmm, over there. You threw them across the room. They’re on the lampshade.

someone
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someone
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I don’t know why you people keep torturing yourselves over these issues, year after year. Everything the RP community has ever written about women suggests that they’re a complete waste of time. So why keep wasting your time?

CSI
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CSI
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“Just as I’m inclined to tell guys of the MGTOW persuasion that there really is no exiting the game”

Yes there is. If you don’t want intimate sexual relationships with women (beyond escorts) then this hugely simplifies your interaction with them. There is simply no need for the “game”.

mersonia
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@someone

“Everything the RP community has ever written about women suggests that they’re a complete waste of time. So why keep wasting your time?”

Pussy feels good bro.

kfg
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kfg
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“There is simply no need for the “game”.”

And then your tax bill comes due and someone from a gynocentric agency wants a word with you.

Seraph
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@KFG,

“Not every pain is of the same intensity.”

I never claimed it was, so I am not quite sure why this is a response to me. What I am currently exploring is Ajax’s apparent claims that pain does not exist for BP men until somehow a RP man reveals that he is in pain, that he is wounded. Up to that point, Ajax contends, a BP man feels and knows nothing of his pain.

Do you agree with his contention? Would your friend the drug counselor agree?

kfg
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kfg
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Ajax: “No pain. Or, if so, completely mis-attributed.

cheupez
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cheupez
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@someone
As was very aptly noted up there we are not interested in women. We are however very interested in pussy.

theasdgamer
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@Blax

So, what if 5 men called dibs on the 5 hottest women in your social circle and you got left with Cinderella Wannafella…

…you still are supporting the FI’s Oneitis strategy by catering to “dibs”…”dibs” is the FI attempting to limit men’s options, through men themselves

of course, if a buddy is banging a chick, that’s a different situation

Blaximus
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@ asd

” So, what if 5 men called dibs on the 5 hottest women in your social circle and you got left with Cinderella Wannafella…”

Lol, I don’t get ” left ” with stuff.

In this case, it’s ” May The Best Man Win “.

theasdgamer
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@Blax

In this case, it’s ” May The Best Man Win “.

always

Ajax Parallax
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@Seraph

I was speaking specifically of the Goldmund incident and calling into question your assertion that Aussie was emotionally wounded as a result.

Let me put it this way. Think of Aussie boy as a happy-go-lucky oneitis frog swimming around in a pot of idealistic old set of books feminine imperative water. An hour later he is lifeless and belly-up. Hm, he should have felt great pain and jumped out the minute he noticed someone like Goldmund screwing around with the temperature knob, hm?

I will try to explain … hold please…

Blaximus
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@ anon ” Respectfully, Blaximus…have you thought of moving? Two decades is a long, long time to make an 80 mile commute.” Strategy. I don’t want to have to work beyond the time I don’t actually want to work. I want freedom to stop when I want to stop.. My dad drilled into my head, that to get what you really want, you have to sacrifice something(s). Your time, your money, your ego ( to a point ), your blood and your sweat. He never stopped saying this to me. I used to absolutely hate it and I got soooo… Read more »

Seraph
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@kfg “No pain. Or, if so, completely mis-attributed.” I could point out the more than several times he did not put a qualifier on his no pain assertion, or I could point that WITH that qualifier it now jibes with my assertion that the BP guy *feels* the pain, but he just doesn’t know the cause, but then I think…and no offense… Are you his lawyer? And I mean no offense, really. It just seems best that if Ajax wants to explain what he said/meant, he can do so. If he chooses not to do so, then he can do… Read more »

Seraph
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@Ajax “I was speaking specifically of the Goldmund incident and calling into question your assertion that Aussie was emotionally wounded as a result.” Your posts seem to suggest a broader application to BP men, as did those of mine you were responding where I was talking about BP men in general. Perhaps I misunderstood, so when you explain, could you specifically parse whether Goldmund was a special case in this regard, the feeling of no emotional wounds/pain, or the phenomenon extends to BP men in general. I am also hoping to get a more direct answers to some of the… Read more »

anon
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anon
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Thanks for the response, Blaximus.
Well done!
Sounds like you have it figured out.
What’s that old job saying?
…Pays well, doesn’t suck and is convenient, pick any two.
Or something like that smile

theasdgamer
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I have to wonder if Comey isn’t a cats paw for Trump…the leaks Comey gave the NY Times and CNN he denied before Congress…makes CNN and the Times look incompetent and/or like liars

the media has come unhinged in its vitriol against POTUS…reminds me of the Reagan era…the only new thing is AntiFa and its violence…the left gaslights as per normal…big name conservatives are clueless as per normal…McCain is an embarrassment to Republicans…the left is getting a taste of sponsor dropping from its media programs and cultural stuff

SJF
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SJF
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“…reminds me of the Reagan era…” Hell yes! The wins the media won in the Nixon era made them hell bent on destroying the credibility of Reagan. That was the beginning of the media unhinging. Woodward and Bernstein were fabulously successful at defining a narrative against the Republicans. Reagan was an Arnold Schwarzenegger type. True to himself. And he actually held Frame enough to destroy Russia and the wall in East Berlin. Too bad dementia was present (my perception) in his second term and that vindicated the press to press on. Reagan held Frame till the end. Good on him.… Read more »

Seraph
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@Ajax, I know you haven’t gotten the chance to post your response yet, but I have time at the moment, so I wanted to clarify something and see if we can move things along. You wrote: “I was speaking specifically of the Goldmund incident and calling into question your assertion that Aussie was emotionally wounded as a result.” Yet, earlier, you wrote this: “The novocaine programmed into the blue pill beta code runs deep. So deep that many a BP oneitis beta are unaware of their own psychic wounds until a third party (the parent in my child analogy and… Read more »

IAS
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IAS
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@Blax: was the lampshade detail… Lampshading?

trackback

[…] No, all right thinking people know that diversity in everything *solves* everything, so the city of Denver is doing it’s part by promoting Disease Diversity. […]

Not Born This Morning
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Below is an interesting excerpt taken from http://www.kshatriya-anglobitch.blogspot.com. Although maybe not 100% true, it has very significant merit in my opinion. The basic thesis is that in the past female sexual imperatives never developed as functionally significant because male imperatives primarily determined reproductive success and females could not or did not need to dominate human sexuality. Strong, aggressive, physically superior men prevented weaker men from reproducing, just like in most other species. Women primarily evolved to be sexual recipients and servile to dominant strong aggressive males rather than cunning tricksters attempting to optimize the differential benefits of “alpha” and “beta”… Read more »

Blaximus
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” In sum, female sexual choices are illogical because they lack any coherent sexual instinct – which explains the reproductive success of thugs, bums, retards and other male misfits and the relative sexual failure of the intelligent, articulate and successful..” Okay, to be fair, I haven’t read the entire piece – but I vehemently disagree with the above statement. Intelligence never has moistened panties. Women give no fucks viscerally. Articulate? Meh, it helps to be articulate if you are spitting top level game. It’s dependent on what you’re saying, and how you’re saying it. But before I run my yap… Read more »

Blaximus
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Whole article read. Interesting… I agree that physical prowess along with sexual prowess is paramount for males to have. I also contend that ” Game “, in the form that *I* was introduced to it in my youth, encompassed much, much more than trying to have sex with women. Game spread across every aspect of life. The thug thing though, lol. Yes, thugs get ass. They get ass because of what they project and represent. Fortunately, I have never been a ” thug “, but I have been the anti-thug. I have nothing against thugs really, except when they get… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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“Why can’t a Rhodes scholar lift and kick ass?”

comment image

” . . . “beta” was . . . (more likely than not) a death sentence.”

The Irish are all descended from Kings because there was a King in every village and . . . the average lifespan of a King was three years. Being Alpha was a death sentence.

John the Miner
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John the Miner
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Check out Dolph Lundgren

A master’s degree in chemical engineering
Holds the rank of 3rd dan black belt in Kyokushin karate and was European champion in 1980-81.
Fulbright scholarship to MIT
IQ 160

No idea how to insert a pic of Ivan Drago.

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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comment image

John the Miner
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John the Miner
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@Blaximus

“It’s a case of arrested development.”
I think it’s more like restricted development than arrested development. Like a steer cut before it could develop into a bull. Still useful but much easier to control.

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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@ John

Very perceptive. Great analogy.

Sentient
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Sentient
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http://ilmediano.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/jamin.-Brenno.jpg

Just came across this on CH recently… 1893 – Brennus and His Share of the Spoils…

Answers many questions…

Sentient
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Sentient
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http://www.ancient.eu/uploads/images/display-5247.jpg

Does not look like he works in IT…

Blax is the exception.

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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Lmao

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