The Utility of Beta Men – Part I

This week my fellow 21 Convention speaker and good friend Goldmund posted a very poignant essay about his experience stealing a girl away from her Blue Pill orbiter for a same night lay. I’ll paraphrase a bit of it here as I riff on it, but do click over to his blog and read the entire exchange.

Before I do though, let me first begin by stating that I have been the Blue Pill orbiter Goldmund describes here. I think too many readers seem to think I write from some position of Alpha authority; as if I’ve always been the lesser Alpha I am today. I’m sorry if this disillusions anyone, but I’ve run the gamut from being a well-conditioned Blue Pill Beta, to being a verified-by-social proof rock star Alpha, to dropping almost into an Omega status with a BPD girlfriend, to maturing into a Red Pill aware, lesser Alpha I would humbly think of myself as today.

A lot of critics, and even a handful of Red Pill men I know, have a real tough time with what they believe are arbitrary terms – Alpha, Beta, Omega, Blue/Red Pill, etc. – but let me reiterate here that these terms have always been abstracts. They are placeholder words for larger ideas, not binary definitions. A lot of critics also, erroneously, believe that Blue Pill, Beta, Omega, White Knight, etc. are some dismissive insult to end a conversation with, rather than, again, the abstract terms used to describe a man’s condition. I’ve made it clear in prior posts that being Beta or Blue Pill isn’t a life sentence, and neither should it merit our scorn beyond the ignorance that man happens to be a subject of.

I’m prefacing this here because sometimes it’s hard to look at ourselves, or our past selves, from the perspective of a guy who is enduring the same Blue Pill conditioned delusions we had. The Blue Pill orbiter’s role in Goldmund’s story here is a guy I’m sure most Red Pill men can somewhat empathize (if not sympathize) with because they were this guy also. They made the same decisions based on the same foolish Blue Pill preconceptions about women, and due to the same ignorance and lack of any Red Pill awareness we once had. So in this respect, try to understand the following from an objective perspective of what it was like to be that ‘hopeless Blue Pill orbiter’ basing decisions on old books social understanding.

To outline the story briefly, Goldmund was invited to socialize with a friend and what he’d thought was a couple; a nice looking 23 year old woman and her dutiful Beta ‘pseudo-husband’ (edited for content):

It was Sunday evening, the weather was pleasant, and being around a group of great guys who were eager to learn had me in extra fine spirits. A text came in from a friend who said he was hosting some people from out of town and wanted me to join them all for dinner. I met them at a restaurant and sat down to eat.

At first I thought the two attractive people he was hosting were a couple. They were both from Australia and sitting next to each other at the table. I noticed that the guy was catering to the girl, not standing his ground in conversation, and ended up paying for her.

After dinner we all went to a bar where a band was playing, the girl came over to me and we started to chat. I immediately asked her “so, is that your husband?” and she responded with “oh, no, he’s just a friend” and gave a hungry ‘save me’ look.

[…] The Australian guy stood next to the girl while I walked closer to the front, and after the first song, I looked back and waved her over. She came right away and the guy glared at me like I was Satan.

She stood right in front of me and began dancing a little. While I rubbed my crotch on her wiggling ass, my hands went to her hips, then felt up her flat stomach before caressing her big boobs.

I said into her ear, “I’m going to take you on a date right now” and she looked back and smiled.

At this point you can probably see where this is going. One thing I think is very important to point out here is that Beta male orbiters of most stripes can simultaneously end up being their own worst enemies while reinforcing the Alpha impression of his sexual competitors. In most cases, that orbiter’s status is set in woman’s hindbrain and as such any other man’s status whom she happens to encounter is measured against his. Game savvy men should (usually do) know that Beta orbiters are an opportunity to establish an implied social proof. Orbiters actually strengthen your Game and SMV because of his baseline status and subconscious comparing of Hypergamous options.

Women want men who other men want to be and other women want to fuck. Whether it’s actually true or not, to a woman’s mind, her impression of your orbiter’s status means you are a man who wants to be like the competing Alpha – the guy who she and other women want to fuck.

In most instances there’s no real reason to AMOG an orbiter. We’ll get to this in a bit, but understand now that most orbiters are unwitting volunteers in aiding a Red Pill, Game aware, man boost his signal, so to speak, by complaining, doubting and criticizing the efficacy (or ethics) of it. In doing so, his less (or non) competitive status is also reinforced with every positive response a woman returns for that Red Pill awareness.

Remember, stay objective here, focus on what’s transpiring and why it’s working. Whether you’re the Blue Pill orbiter or the Red Pill seducer in a scenario like this, the real education comes from observing the process.

Goldmund continues:

We went to the back of the venue, and my friend came up to me and said “hey man, listen, that guy is really upset that you are hitting on the girl”.

“Well she surely isn’t going to fuck him, they aren’t together”

“Yeah, but he paid for her to come out to New York [from Australia], and last night, he told her that he loved her”

I couldn’t help but burst out laughing.

While this conversation was going on, the guy went up to the girl and begged her not to leave with me. At this point, I despised him, especially after my friend informed me that he had referred to me as ‘a creepy predator’, and wanted to teach him a lesson that stung. Especially since he was taller, better looking, and much more arrogant than me.

Right about here you’ll probably have a real tough time with the ethics of this scenario, but lets run down a few of the facts we know at this stage. First, ‘Pseudo-Husband’ is now the kind of Beta who pays for non-interested, or semi-interested women to go on international trips with him. This in itself is material for an entire post, but any Red Pill aware guy knows the mindset of the Beta sexual resource exchange – also known as the Savior Schema.

Just as an aside, I think this schema becomes all the more interesting when you account for the Sugar Babies companionship/sex dynamic going on today. It might be easy to think a Sugar Daddy paying for a woman’s exclusive attention would simply vote that girl off the island by closing his wallet, but when you mix pride, alcohol, Beta Game and expectation-but-not-expectation of sex with a Sugar Baby, well, that can make for a very volatile outcome. There’s a certain expectation of ROI when you pay for a woman’s international vacation.

Obviously Goldmund’s approach shifts at this stage, but, being the seasoned seduction artist he is, he has more than enough intel on the guy and IOIs from the girl to get the lay. At this point I expect Goldmund made it personal, but we’ll discuss this towards the end.

‘Pseudo-Husband’s’ impression of Goldmund as “creepy predator” is another tell as to his Blue Pill conditioned mindset. “Creepy predator” is fem-speak. It’s what I expect to hear come from a woman’s mouth, but when it comes from a man it’s a giveaway as to his conditioning; in this case feminine-primary.

As I’d rather not copy and paste all of Goldmund’s story here, I’ll ask that you read the sexual details on his site. Suffice it to say Goldmund expertly Games this woman and has quick-hit sex with her at the venue they were at. However, to continue with the analysis of this girl’s orbiter, let’s skip ahead to some select quotes:

Her face was red and we had been gone for about 20 minutes, so when we returned to the table, I’m 100% sure that everyone knew what just went down. The guy didn’t say a word while the rest of us chatted about sex over drinks, and when I got up to go home, he didn’t say goodbye. As I was leaving I told my friend to mention The Rational Male to him.

Major lessons found in this one, and they are so clear because a few years ago, I could picture myself being in the loser’s situation (I wouldn’t go so far as to pay for a chick to fly across the world, but I’ve done some extremely pathetic things in attempts to woo girls).

Game taught me that girls are incredibly sexual creatures, love being dirty, think about sex often, need it, and want to get fucked by men who are wild.

I’m sure the Australian guy never thought the girl was capable of having sex in a bar bathroom by a stranger, yet it happened right under his nose. Its hard to think of a bigger example of getting friend-zoned than this guy who had spent 1000s of dollars on the girl to confess his ‘love’ for her, only to be cucked by some Playboy she just met.

I think this is one of the hardest lessons a Blue Pill man has to learn before he understands the importance of being Red Pill aware. Most ‘Nice Guy’ orbiters/friends never really need to be AMOG’d by a sexual rival because they’re ignorant of the nature of Hypergamy. Even the ones who’ve experienced it personally from a woman, or having it flaunted in their face via commercial Open Hypergamy, these men still want their dream girl to somehow be different. Many a White Knight has been knocked from his horse after having the truth of women’s sexual natures viscerally illustrated for him. It’s the guys who go into denial, who fall back on the “Quality Woman” rationale and get back on the white horse who are truly lost.

I’ve been friend-zoned before and remember it being some of the most frustrating, mentally clouding times of my life. This guy was seething with anger so bad, he couldn’t even speak–or attempt to fight. The friend-zone is anguishing. Overcoming it happened when I started reading stories like the one above, started assuming every girl has slutty tendencies and will use weak guys for money, attention, gifts, or whatever it is that they are lacking.

Having your Blue Pill ego-investments dispelled in such a brutal fashion often leads to two types of misdirected anger: anger at the sexual rival who just schooled you in the most personal way about women’s Hypergamous sexual natures, and anger with a woman (or women) who are simply incapable of appreciating, or abiding, by the old social contracts, the old books he believes they ought to be.

This anger is not so much about a loss of investment as it is about a Blue Pill man having his inner world destroyed by outer world facts.

There was a point in my own life when I was something very similar to the Australian guy. I’m glad Goldmund mentioned my site and books to this guy’s friend because I’m still hopeful for men like this. I’ve had a few men in my Red Pill sphere tell me I ought not to care about men who don’t want, or don’t know how, to intrasexually compete; either due to their arrogance or ignorance. But that’s not what my goal is. While I understand that sometimes it’s necessary to Ghost on men at times, that’s never going to be my first impulse.

If the dude was cool about the situation and humble enough to talk to me like an adult about it, I would have gladly given him some advice and probably just got the girls number at some point and arranged to meet her privately.

Ego is the reason most people stay bluepill, you have to be honest with yourself and admit when something is wrong. And then find ways to fix it.

Hypergamy and Evolution want Hoes Before Bros

I understand Goldmund’s sentiment here. About 9 months, maybe a year ago I ran a Twitter poll asking whether it should be considered a Red Pill aware man’s duty to educate Beta men about their Blue Pill beliefs and why it’s the source of a lot of their troubles. For the most part, the consensus was that men should help other guys. That’s encouraging, but it’s also not always advisable. I find it fascinating that despite all of the attraction and arousal Red Pill aware men can knowingly generate in women with Dark Triad personality traits, they still believe they can compartmentalize those traits when it comes to helping their fellow man.

Should Goldmund have backed off this girl out of respect for a man who was obviously trapped in a Blue Pill negative feedback loop with her? Or did he do both him and her a favor?

I’ve personally had one of my best friends bang a girl I was locked in the friendzone with. This was a girl I’d tried for months to get her to sexually respond to my pathetically Blue Pill “I really care” Beta Game. I vividly remember (I was 19) the night I introduced him to her and so began a literal fuck-fest between the two of them that lasted about 2 months after only meeting for an hour that night. It was a hard kick in the teeth to take, one my friend and the girl showed absolutely no remorse or regret for, but it taught me a very valuable lesson. All the bullshit about “bros before hoes” all the idealistic pretty Blue Pill lies I believed about being friends and comfort first before sex went right out the window that week – where they belonged.

Personally it was hard to take, but objectively it was exactly what I needed to experience. I think this is a hard line for even a lot of Red Pill men to really cross today. Granted, I expect Goldmund was really into banging this girl that night more than he wanted to teach this guy some object lesson, but I think it’s going to be a really difficult area for Red Pill guys to sort out for themselves when it comes to “helping” Blue Pill guys unplug.

I’m reminded of the story about the guy who taped the note about banging another guy’s girlfriend under the toilet seat.

What is a Red Pill aware man’s ethical responsibility to Blue Pill men?


This is a two-part series of posts. In the next post I’ll consider how Red Pill men might deal with Blue Pill men in non-sexually competitive situations, and the advantages and dangers you might encounter.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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IAS
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@Everyone: I’ve been spending more time in the FR comments section and avoiding much of the Jupiter discussion, but am I glad I popped in to read “balls are made of pussy” comment.

That is brilliant on so many levels.

@SFC Ton: did you know that the scrotum is kind of like the labia fused together?

cheupez
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I could maybe see if there were only 5, and Goldmund pilfered one, but that’s not the case. What the beta mind doesnt realise is that if a cucking girl could be stupid enough to overtly explain her predicament to the cucked beta, it would be something like, “It is your fault! It is youn you do not make me hot for you! Make me hot for you. I am made like this. You also know I need to eat, my kids need to eat but I have no money. You have the money. What can I do? And yet… Read more »

anon
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“Hehehe”

To summarize your argument…all alphas are psychopaths and anyone who isn’t a psychopath is laughable and disgusting.

cheupez
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@anon
I dont make the gyna tingles rules.

anon
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Must be why I see so many uber hotties lined up on international flights wearing “Congo or bust!” tee shirts.

anon
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Not to say there aren’t any folks (the planet is a large place) who would go to the Congo (a place with a lot of psychopathy, civil wars with conscripted child soldiers over the course of decades will do that) for a lay. And some folks also buy underwear at flea markets.

kfg
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@Cheupez:

Psychopaths destroy social order, because they hold it in contempt.

Alphas Leaders of Men generate social order, because they desire it.

cheupez
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What women prefer is not for the best of society. Hypergamy gives no fuck for our vested interests in order. That feminism makes conventions whose consequences are very harmful to women is not a secret. But they dont care. Tear a woman’s pussy to shreds, and sooner enough she will show up willingly for another go at it.

kfg
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“What women prefer is not for the best of society.”

Correct. But that does not imply that what they prefer is for the worst of society. They are looking for certain traits and behaviours. Psychopaths have them, but not all men who have them are psychopaths.

All men are mammals. Not all mammals are men.

cheupez
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@kfg
Women find psychopathy (and dark triad traits in general) sexually arousing. They however find many other traits attractive.

theasdgamer
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@cheupez What women prefer is not for the best of society. Hypergamy gives no fuck for our vested interests in order. Just because women don’t care what’s best for society doesn’t mean that their interests can’t coincide with what’s best for society. Women find high status leaders of men sexually arousing along with dark triad men. Women used to be shamed for giving sexual attention to dark triad men, but the occurrence of that shaming has been greatly reduced. Not all alphas are dark triad men. Not all alphas are leaders of men. But almost all alphas are in one… Read more »

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@kfg

What’s your opinion of why psychopaths have contempt for social order?

If-I-Fell
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I’ve been listening to the back and forth between Kid Jupiter Vs. Sentient, ASDgamer et al. I think you are all missing some points: Point One: A man who invests in a woman is setting himself up for hurt and disappointment. So, Super Beta Aussie paid for the ticket or to generalize all of us men have put forth resources in an effort to fuck a woman, or worse, to form a lasting love relationship with our oneitis. It most often does not work out, and usually the more you spend the less it works out. Blaximus made a comment… Read more »

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If I have understood Rollo well, I think “high status leaders” have qualities that women find attractive. I am not too sure those qualities necessarily make those men sexually arousing to women. I think those are comfort/security/provision related qualities which though they may appeal to the rational aspect of a womans thinking, they are likely to send the woman’s lizard brain to sleep. I have previously experienced this with women before I read Rollo but had no idea what was happening. Then after reading Rollo, I actively tried to test this on women I know. I switch on selfish SOB,… Read more »

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[…] The Rational Male’s “The Utility Of Beta Men” […]

anon
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Hypothetical scenario: You’re in a position of responsibility and a report that falls under your area of responsibility comes to your desk. Young woman (early 20s) tested positive for cocaine. Back story is, she went to a strip club, and after a while went into the back of the club, came out with some cocaine and took a hit in the corner of the club. Her ex, who is incarcerated in the pokey confirmed that “yes, she used to use ecstasy and cocaine from time to time”. She is not available for questioning because she is at a facility for… Read more »

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Nah. This ‘take what you want’ logic is the same type of bullshit justification as robbing someone’s house and blaming them because they left a window unlocked. You think it is alpha to fuck your friend’s girlfriend? I disagree. If you are really alpha you have enough options to be able to pass by your friend’s girl. There are tons of available single women. You can’t get one? Then your rotation is shit, you fucking beta. Also – what about actually having standards for the women you date, and to insist that they maintain them or… no dick for them…?… Read more »

cheupez
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@Lex
Big up man. Good point

theasdgamer
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@cheupez

I think “high status leaders” have qualities that women find attractive. I am not too sure those qualities necessarily make those men sexually arousing to women.

high status leaders…Bill Clinton, Henry Kissinger, Gregory Peck, Wilt the Stilt, various high profile rock bands…all laid like tile…no provisioning

NB

I heard from someone in a position to know that subordinates were bringing Bill Clinton an average of three women per day.

Incubus_Rising
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@LEX: I kicked off an argument with Blaximus in the beginning of this thread on the same point. After a lot of “you’re a pussy”, “no you’re a pussy beggar” and reading 1,000+ comments on this thread, I can see why some find it repulsive and some are OK with it. In a way, I am glad I did not get a direct answer, it got me intrigued and after of lot thinking and comparing the comments from the opposing sides to this argument on this thread, it has made me realize that just being “Red Pill aware” and “GAME”… Read more »

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@YC: “What’s your opinion of why psychopaths have contempt for social order?” I believe it is an essentially genetic trait, that although it appears destructive in most circumstances, in certain cases having a few around enhances survival at the tribal level. Like when the goblins come over the hill intent on killing you and taking your stuff. The necessity of being able to survive the very extremes of environment is often overlooked. The extreme is not just dangerous, it will wipe you out utterly if you aren’t prepared to handle it. The trick is to play the game of “Yeah,… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@all Lots of you all think that AussieBozo had some rights because he paid for chick’s plane ticket. The right to keep other guys away from some chick you aren’t banging. Pure Blue Pill bullshit. That was never the case under patriarchy. It isn’t the case today. It’s the FI gaslighting your ass so that you all will give chicks free stuff and they can fuck whomever they please and you will live in a fantasyland where you imagine that you have some claim on a chick you’re not even banging. Of course, if you’re banging a chick under patriarchy,… Read more »

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@IIF

Goldmund was out of luck if she either mate guarded herself

what mate? if she had any mate, it was Goldmund, because he mated with her

anon
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” I kicked off an argument with Blaximus in the beginning of this thread on the same point. After a lot of “you’re a pussy”, “no you’re a pussy beggar” and reading 1,000+ comments on this thread, I can see why some find it repulsive and some are OK with it. In a way, I am glad I did not get a direct answer, it got me intrigued and after of lot thinking and comparing the comments from the opposing sides to this argument on this thread, it has made me realize that just being “Red Pill aware” and “GAME”… Read more »

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@LEX

You’re confusing “ought” and “is”. Don’t try to shoehorn ethics in. Plenty of alphas don’t follow your ethics , tho some may.

@anon

trying again with trust? lol

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For example: When you get onto that freeway, in your 1.5-2.5 ton cage of glass and steel, you are trusting that the other hundreds, even thousands of drivers in their steel cages hurtling along at speeds that would have been incomprehensible to our Founders, you are trusting that they, for whatever reasons unknown to you, are going to behave in X fashion, and not Y. Nobody is driving (“working”) collectively on the freeway towards a common goal. Similar goals, sure. Shared “rules of the road”, yes. But each is going to their own destination for their own reasons, not the… Read more »

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And those rules change depending on where you are. Kuwaitis drive differently from Italians who drive differently from Koreans who drive differently from Americans (who vary depending on the city and/or state one is in). Social norms prevail and establish what it correct, and where it is correct. Which, again, is why there are differences of interpretation for what is correct social convention.

theasdgamer
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@anon

Social norms are a way of saying, “See, I’m part of the group” and violating social norms is a way of signaling you are an outsider to that tribe/group.

men are being gaslighted about norms…there are no norms…women don’t abide by norms…alphas don’t either…only betas…trust a woman to not abide by norms, lol…trust a woman to gaslight about norms

theasdgamer
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@anon

you’re confusing areas where we have norms (laws) with areas (sex) where there are none.

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I’m not confusing laws with social behavior. Laws are force. I think they are necessary. There must be enough force to supress the violation of the laws. But there can never be enough of such force if the vast majority of a society doesn’t share and independently adhere to certain values about right conduct. No amount of force is sufficient to suppress all predatory violence. Grant enough to the government, and the predators will simply shift to working within the government, which is even worse. Civilization is based on trust, and it takes a long, deep look at the social… Read more »

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@ IIF I stick by my assertion. This has been my observation my entire life. A sexually and emotionally satisfied woman is as capable of cheating as any other woman, but usually will not. Problem is most men don’t know what it takes, or what it means to have a woman in this state. I still see this quite routinely, and my conclusion that it will never change. The only exception to this is The Whore, or the woman with some specific mental issues. Re: investment in women, I have no idea what that even means Wrt to myself. I’m… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@anon

laws establish norms…no laws, no norms…laws about driving, sure…laws against adultery and premarital sex? lol, not any more

theasdgamer
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@anon

Civilization is based on trust

“Civilization is based on trust laws.”

fixed

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“laws establish norms…no laws, no norms…laws about driving, sure…laws against adultery and premarital sex? lol, not any more” Respectfully, Gamer, I think you have it reversed (though not entirely…sometimes laws change norms, an example would be seatbelts and smoking). For example, there WERE laws against both, at one time, when social convention was different. Social conventions changed and pressure was placed on the laws to change. Sometimes social conventions and laws aren’t aligned, sometimes they are. We could call them “loose” taboos and “strong” taboos. For example, we have a loose taboo against spitting gum on the sidewalk. Singapore has… Read more »

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@anon: “Civilization is based on trust, and it takes a long, deep look at the social mechanisms that build trust as well as those that destroy it, to reverse the slow downward movement we’re on. Which in a nutshell, is kind of what TRP is about, innit?” I used to subscribe to these thoughts as well. But TRP is not about saving the civilization. The civilization does not want to be saved. As harsh as it may sound, it is in the best interest of the civilization when individuals act in their own best interest. Women are subconsciously aware of… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@anon

For example, there WERE laws against both, at one time, when social convention was different. Social conventions changed and pressure was placed on the laws to change.

human wiring remains constant…biological desires remain constant

laws change because values change…constraints are valued…values get attacked…constraints (laws) are removed…desires are unconstrained

you get some weak taboos against extramarital sex in the UMC…not too much in other classes…no social sex norms for the whole society, except against pedophilia and bestiality and…virginity

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Facades are just that. People will play along, fooling themselves into thinking something as trivial as where they live, social circles or class puts them above biological nature.

This is standard procedure in the most wealthy sectors of civilization. It’s how the weaker can create the illusion of power.

It also usually signals the end of any given civilization, historically.

Trust is indeed key to the success of these pseudo civilizations, even after they’ve become corrupted beyond reasonable hope.

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@If-I-Fell: “What if the mastermind in this situation is Aussie Chick?”

The host was the “mastermind”.
He knew the Aussie flew the girl here. Knew the Aussie told the girl “he loved her”. So the host invites his friend, the “god king” of players, to join himself, the Aussie, and the Aussie’s pedestal princess for dinner.
Coincidence that Goldmund nailed the girl? Sure, just like it’s coincidence that if you drop a mouse in a box with a snake, the snake winds up with a lump in the middle.

Incubus_Rising
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@John the Miner: “The host was the “mastermind”.
He knew the Aussie flew the girl here. Knew the Aussie told the girl “he loved her”. So the host invites his friend, the “god king” of players, to join himself, the Aussie, and the Aussie’s pedestal princess for dinner.”

I don’t think so, because in a follow up post Goldmund stated that the host was upset and that he may not invite Goldmund for any future events. If the host is upset, I bet it is not because Goldmund nailed the feral, its because Goldmund got to her before him.

theasdgamer
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@anon

Did Mike teach you about trust? Is it one of his laws for you?

@Blax

very perceptive

@all

the thread winning comment was at 6:23

Roused
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“Then, Blaximus made the comment that a sexually satisfied woman doesn’t cheat. OK, that’s pure bullshit. Women do what they want based on their feelings. I expect this kind of remark from young inexperienced guys who still believe that you can fuck a woman into submission. I remember some guy touting sex god method or some such program. You can’t control the woman. To a certain degree, you cannot control how you feel about the woman.” Blax wrote: “A sexually and emotionally satisfied woman is as capable of cheating as any other woman, but usually will not. Problem is most… Read more »

thomasso75
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Great post. I love it when you break down real life incidents and relate it to red pill theory.

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@Incubus_Rising “I don’t think so, because in a follow up post Goldmund stated that the host was upset and that he may not invite Goldmund for any future events. If the host is upset, I bet it is not because Goldmund nailed the feral, its because Goldmund got to her before him.” If the girl was the goal, why invite a superior player? As for the host being upset with Goldmund, I think that’s because the host is either truly machiavellian and is done withe Goldmund. Or more likely he’s getting shit form the Aussie for inviting the guy who… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@Roused

Hot sex is optional for submission. Hot sex is fun and can stimulate a girl’s emotions, but there are other ways to stimulate a girl’s emotions besides sex. Playing with a girl’s emotions make submission easier for a girl.

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When the subject of ” deep conversion ” was approached here a while back, it was roundly laughed at and rejected right off the bat. The discussion fizzled in short order.

The fact that grown, sexually active men had no idea or interest only buttresses my point.

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“) the visible sexual release after each encounter – babygirl fell asleep hard after.”

Male induced orgasm is the only thing that pauses the hamster wheel. THAT is the payoff…

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@asdgamer
Bill Clinton fucking Monica does not represent a very high level of social order. Fucking five a day certainly does not! You were saying something about alphas and social order?

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@John the Miner: At this point there is a lot of speculation as to what or how things went done in this situation. But it has been a good analysis of the Alpha / Beta mind set using this example.

“I just discovered this place about a month and a half ago.” Welcome to this blog. I have been here for a little over a year only. I was a lurker so far, but this post pushed a lot of buttons and had to jump in and I leant a lot, especially in the comments section.

Agent P
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@IR
i am curious, what have you learned?

No sarcasm or anything intended, legit question, just curious.

theasdgamer
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Male induced orgasm is the only thing that pauses the hamster wheel. THAT is the payoff…

yep, test it…watch girls if you want to stop before you O…the hamster will turn feet up

@cheupez

Bill Clinton is likely a psychopath…I’ll give you that one even though he’s also an alpha leader…now as to the rest…

Incubus_Rising
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@Agent P: I learnt that I am not Jesus and salvation is not in my job description.

theasdgamer
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Mrs. Gamer passed by me on the PC…asked if I was watching my pr0n yet…I said that it was on my todo list…amused mastery look…she only had a lame comeback…shit test smashed again

Incubus_Rising
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*Edit:

@Agent P: I learnt that I am not Jesus and helping people attain salvation is not in my job description.

theasdgamer
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@IR

I learnt that I am not Jesus

you’re not Hispanic, are you

theasdgamer
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men accused of college rape taking accusers to court

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article155254404.html

Incubus_Rising
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@theasdgamer: No, I am not Hispanic. Just a guy who realised he still has some “buffering” going on in the sub conscience. Some of it has been eliminated in the last 5 days since this post began.

theasdgamer
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@IR

that was an old joke

Roused
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@ASD

Good point about submission. I overlooked that and you’re right, sex is just one aspect to it.

@Blax
Thanks for the reference, will make for good weekend reading material.

Agent P
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@IR
That’s a good thing to learn. Certainly took me a while to learn that one, in many different contexts.

I am glad to see the evolution.

anon
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“human wiring remains constant…biological desires remain constant”

Biology is constant and humans are biologically adapted to be social animals. They don’t just consume, reproduce, and poo. They: collaborate. They’re tribal. Collaboration requires some basis in trust. When people speak of the fall of civilization what they are really speaking about is the fall of a larger functioning tribe into smaller tribes.

anon
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Re: Jesus.
Good one. smile

SFC Ton
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SFC Ton
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Legit anon and their is no soical capital beyond your tribe

SFC Ton
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Bill Clinton banged fat ugly chicks
That ain’t alpha

theasdgamer
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@anon When people speak of the fall of civilization what they are really speaking about is the fall of a larger functioning tribe into smaller tribes. see, I don’t think that this is how stuff works…civilization is a whole nother animal than an agglomeration of tribes of 50-75 people…it’s not just scaling…the family doesn’t change inherently, tho civ can have a major impact on family, but church, govt., jobs, culture, etc. all come into play…essentially you rely on laws to cause certain effects to happen to modify human behavior…in driving, you are best off driving defensively and watching out for… Read more »

kfg
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“They don’t just consume, reproduce, and poo.” Now wait a minute; I have an Economics 101 text book here and it says . . . “Collaboration requires some basis in trust.” Bearing in mind that the trust group and the trust metric is rather different for men and women. “When people speak of the fall of civilization what they are really speaking about is the fall of a larger functioning tribe into smaller tribes.” For my part I would be talking about something far more fundamental than that. The Classical Greek city states were fully civilized. The Czech Republic and… Read more »

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“Bearing in mind that the trust group and the trust metric is rather different for men and women.”
True.

“For my part I would be talking about something far more fundamental than that. The Classical Greek city states were fully civilized. The Czech Republic and Slovakia are just as civilized as was Czechoslovakia, and their separation into two smaller tribes allows them, in many ways, to be more civil in their behavior.”

True. Smaller doesn’t ipso facto mean less functional or cohesive.
It might even be the opposite case (if it weren’t the collapse likely wouldn’t have occurred).

anon
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i don’t know much about Czechoslovakia, but if it was like Yugoslavia that would be a good example of different value systems clashing (the anti-collaboration/anti-trust formula). They were already different tribes, forced together. If it were true that distrust is a sound basis for civilization, it would’ve been a winning formula.

SFC Ton
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lol I can promise you every nation falls apart along ethnic and tribal lines

That ain’t speculation but based on a life time down range in various failed nation states

Sentient
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“Smaller doesn’t ipso facto mean less functional or cohesive”

Such as Switzerland… But that time is soon passing.

Sentient
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Red vs Blue. Us vs. Them.

doclove
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@ Blaximus Thank you for your polite response, and I appreciate it. Yes one can get arrested for having sex in a public bathroom and for having sex inside a car in a public place. I remember a clerk telling me that two gay men having sex inside a Border’s book store were arrested by Chicago police over 20 years ago. I also remember seeing a Cook Country, Illinois Sheriff arrest a man an woman having sex inside a parked car over 30 years ago in a parking lot. Since you asked whether it is more harmful to civilization to… Read more »

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@ SJF Let us suppose for the sake of argument that Aussie man is reading this article and all the comments now and he is looking for what to do now. That was a nice thinly veiled insult about me giving Kid Jupiter blue pilled Average Frustrated Chump support. So would you if in Aussie man’s shoes let Aussie woman stay in your home, keep her return air line ticket, and say nothing about Aussie woman having sex with Goldmund in a public bathroom and take her to the Airport in blue pill AFC Cucked White Knight Mangina sense of… Read more »

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@ Blaximus Please read my response to SJF above. In most cases it would be best to do something right away. This one case between the Aussie Woman and the Aussie man is not one of them because he can probably retaliate or take vengeance at little to no cost to himself. Most people think of retaliate and take vengeance as the same, and if there is a difference, I did not look either word up in the dictionary for decades as I have little time and am acting like most people would for now. I probably will look at… Read more »

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It’s not important what he did to the Aussie woman. Your proposed Alpha retaliation would be nothing more than Butt-Hurt Beta retaliation. It is important going forward what he does to remediate his lack of having the Aussie girl want to fuck him. I recall a couple events I had back 34 years ago. Event #1: Back in college I didn’t have the highest social or emotional intelligence. I did have my shit together, but wasn’t out-competing other guys for girls. We were on a campus of 25% women (half of which were fat or unattractive) and 75% men (90%… Read more »

Sentient
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he will tell everyone what a slut she was by fucking a complete stranger named Goldmund in a public bathroom.

Lols…

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2671955.1465840980!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/lvparis15f-7-web.jpg

Sentient
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The least the Aussie man should do is take her to the airport and tell her that our friendship is finished and that he never wants to see her again.

That’s right my liege… make sure you get her to the airport. Say there, what color is your steed?

comment image

Blaximus
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@ doc Personally, I am of the mind that any vengeance or retaliation from the Aussie boy would’ve only cemented his stellar bitch like status. He made a really ill planned gamble and he lost. The chick owed him nothing. Full stop. There is no negotiated desire. There is no owed sex. He has no real recourse for his hurt feelings. He lost. It’s okay. I mean, he can try shaming or something, but grown ass men with a modicum of testosterone flowing through their bodies should never stoop to this form of feminine behavior. He could cancel her plane… Read more »

kfg
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“The most Alpha response would be . . .”

. . . to forget her when he left Australia, having already told her, “See ya, Toots.” Otherwise, impossible. He had already completely given away his frame and established himself as a doormat.

You just can’t go “chode, chode, chode, chode, ALPHA BITCH!” It doesn’t work like that. That’s just hurt and angry doormat.

Should he withdraw from her? Of course. He should have done so years ago, the first time she treated him like a schlub, when it might have actually been an Alpha move in his frame rather than hers.

SJF
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“Part of being a man is learning how to win, as well as how to lose.” https://therationalmale.com/field-reports/comment-page-6/#comment-187294 We had an epic varsity wrestling meet against our prime rival back in 1979. Two premier all boys Catholic schools. The Jesuits against the Franciscans. It went back and forth and we lost by a few points. Our team members grumbled in the locker room afterwards about how we got screwed by the referee’s on a few points and should have won. Our coach taught us and epic lesson on that. I believe he swore a bit as he spit out that: “The… Read more »

cheupez
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No telling what an alpha would do. He would probably be laughing his ass off and would probably just walk up to the bitch and Gm on the dance floor the moment he grabs her petite derriere and tell her that the way it appears she needs a change of shoes because he can see a few drops of pussy juice oozing down her legs into her shoes. Then walk away, grab a beer and check out the nearest escort online and book her ass, in a big city that should take less than 20 min. Get a refund on… Read more »

SJF
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If it were to get the Aussie man anything to throw it in the face of the Aussie Girl, he should. But it is not going to get him anything. So he should pass on the vengeance.

What does he get by throwing a temper tantrum? There were no borders to enforce because he didn’t ever bring her in to his border.

Mineter
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I’m not clear on this yet. Aussie guy shouldn’t “do” anything in the aftermath. If it his return flight to cancel, he shouldn’t, even if he could get a partial refund. He shouldn’t pitch Aussie slut out from his lodgings… if not, should he allow her to bring back Goldmund or other guys back to bang? If so, should he make himself graciously absent whilst she does? Should he ask her to change her own cum and shit stained sheets, or should he? If him, should he smile instead of scowling whilst doing so? Just wondering. If he acts too… Read more »

SFC Ton
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Aussie guy should have rolled out all nonchalant, gone back and banged all her hot friends, plus maybe her mom and younger sister

Any sign of what she did bothered him would reduce Aussie guys standing even further, so changing rooms, shit canning her ticket etc should be done with a shit eating grin on his face

Sentient
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The “solution” for lost honor is death –
either your’s, her’s, her family’s or in some cases all of the above.

Not a good solution.

doclove
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@ Sentinet Act as if Aussie man is reading this now and is looking for suggestions for what to do next. If you have a better idea then any of the two I stated above then write it on this blog’s comments section in this article. I have more ideas of what he could do in between the two suggestions I wrote above but have not written them. I regard doing nothing and remaining friends with Aussie women as a cuck stain move. I regard saying and doing nothing while giving her the silent treatment and not being her friend… Read more »

doclove
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@ SJF I respectfully disagree with doing nothing and saying nothing. I agree that Aussie man should have never bought the ticket for Aussie Woman etc. That is done and over with now, I agree with you that he should learn GAME. I personally think that Aussie man is a Average Frustrated Chump Beta Bux man in this situation who got cucked by smooth talking Alpha Fux Goldmund. I personally think it would be best for Aussie man to remove the Bux immediately from Aussie woman and let her suffer by cancelling her return ticket home and removing her from… Read more »

doclove
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@ Blaximus
Please read what I read to SJF above. I never suggested that Aussie man throw a tantrum. He should act coldly and remove the Beta Bux now,

doclove
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@ SJF @ Blaximus The reason I said that he should tell everyone back home what she did and why is so she is at a disadvantage when she tells her side second, If he cancels her logings and ticket without saying why first then everyone back home will regard him as a raging dickhead asshole, They may do so anyway. The person who speaks first is more likely to control the frame of the conversations which will be going on in Austrailia. Most young women today will silently and in subtle ways brag about how they cucked AFC Beta… Read more »

Sentient
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Doclove

I didn’t see this tacked on the end… Lol.

“He should cancel her ticket and lodgings. Then he should immediately tell everyone back home what he did and why.”

Gamma rage? For what purpose?

rugby11
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Blaximus
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@ doc ” He should cancel her ticket and lodgings. Then he should immediately tell everyone back home what he did and why.. He should do this coldly and with raised voice but not shouting as to make the point clear by saying to leave the lodgings and not tell her whether or not he cancelled the ticket. Once she is out of the lodgings he should have a shit eating grin to show her or laugh at her if her back is to him. Then he should go out and GAME American women as him being an Austrailian man… Read more »

kfg
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“I agree that Aussie man should have never bought the ticket for Aussie Woman etc. That is done and over with now . . .”

Yeah, the ‘What difference, at this point, does it make?’ defense works every time.

So, there I was, playing with matches in a fireworks factory. Not very smart, I admit it, but . . .

what has that got to do with my situation now?

If-I-Fell
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The circus has moved on, but… “He could cancel her plane ticket… I guess that’s an option. Or he could take the fucking loss.” Blaximus June 9, 2017 at 8:11 pm A quick search found a ticket price of about $1,300 one-way from NY to AUS. I for one, would take a full refund, a partial refund or cancel with no refund. If that’s gamma rage—I’ll take it. Men on this site have argued that if a woman acts like a bitch on a dinner date. The man should excuse himself like he’s going to the bathroom and leave her… Read more »

kfg
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“Why should he take an additional financial loss.” In this case, because he didn’t do it the first time, he did it something like the 900th time. And, he already paid for this particular drink. His loss, and the rules under which he would accept such losses had already been established. Refusing to pay for a drink has an obvious economic component, but it’s about frame. Refusing to pay the first time is maintaining frame. Having already paid, you have already lost frame. Paying for a drink establishes no contract other than you will provide her with a drink. It… Read more »

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“I think there is some confusion about the meaning of dread. The removal of financial benefits is just that. It is not making the woman fearful or anxious to further a man’s goals in the relationship. If she experiences financial hardship due to the removal of the financial benefits, well that’s so sad.” Alpha Fucks guys can remove their presence and make a woman fearful and anxious. Beta Bucks guys can remove their financial benefits and attempt to play a Machiavellian game of negotiating desire. Depends on the woman how that will play out. A detached observer can see how… Read more »

Ajax Parallax
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What SJF said. Goldmund described him as tall, good-looking and arrogant. Throw in his Aussie accent in NYC and he could clean up. Take the loss, like Blaximus said, immediately ghost yourself from the scene and hit another NYC hot spot. Then, assuming you have game, 1. Hook up and stay overnight at another chick’s place with zero responses to bathroom girl texts etc. 2. Pull one or two American chicks back to your hotel room late that night and, if bathroom girl is there, a chill “Oh, I didn’t think you would be here. Mind getting some fresh air… Read more »

If-I-Fell
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@KFG Yes, frame was lost and 99.9% chance it cannot be recovered. Yes, he is an average frustrated chump. “…his sunk cost is sunk…” Emotionally, to her, absolutely yes, agreed. Financially, his sunk cost is with the airline unless recoverable. I would receive some satisfaction knowing that she had to pay her way back home. @SJF Agreed, he cannot play dread game to win her back or reestablish frame. I was only promoting the idea of burning down the village and walking away. I’m not sure if this makes you guys arguing that he should stay in a bad deal… Read more »

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“Agreed, he cannot play dread game to win her back or reestablish frame. I was only promoting the idea of burning down the village and walking away. I’m not sure if this makes you guys arguing that he should stay in a bad deal white knights or apex alphas. It seems to me to be a little of both.” I’m always promoting getting out of the initial stages of grief (denial, anger, bargaining and depression) into a stage of Acceptance. The initial four stages hold you back, while Acceptance allows you to move forward. https://therationalmale.com/2011/11/15/rejection-revenge/ Remember, rejection isn’t limited to… Read more »

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