Blue Pill Frame

BluePillFrame

Establishing and internalizing a strong sense of Frame is one of the most fundamental aspects necessary for a man’s personal success. I’m hesitant to use the word “success” here because it subjectively means so much to men on an individual basis. “Success” is a relative term, but I intentionally began the Iron Rules of Tomassi with Frame because an understanding of this principle applies to so many different arenas in a man’s life.

It’s far too easy to conflate Frame (and the hoped-for success that can come about from it) with a power-of-positive-thinking motivational vibe. Developing, maintaining and internalizing a personal Frame isn’t derived from motivational thinking. That’s not to say it doesn’t help, but Frame can align either on realizable realities informed by Red Pill awareness or it can be founded on deeply ingrained investments in Blue Pill conditioning.

For some men, a Blue Pill mindset, and the conditioning principles that formed it, is the foundation of what they convince themselves is a very strong, very ‘correct’, establishment of Frame. It quite literally is the reality into which they expect a woman will want to be a part of and will want to readily cooperate within. The problem, of course, is that the Frame they’ve developed is informed by Old Rules/Blue Pill goals that mischaracterize the truer natures of women and what their motivations are.

This insistence of women adapting to a Blue Pill Frame is the root of many a Beta man’s downfall when a woman has finally run out of Alpha Fucks options during her Party Years and she’s “turned over a new leaf” in the necessitousness of her Epiphany Phase. Women aging out of the sexual marketplace are only too happy to appear to be a Beta man’s Blue Pill ship that’s finally come in.

Behold, Camelot

I have heard many times, from well-intended Blue Pill men, some variation of the Just Be Yourself self-righteous expectation that women should want to enter into his Frame. “If a woman can’t accept me for who I am, she’s not the right (quality) woman for me” is the standard refrain. The Frame is strong, the expectation is (seemingly) strong, but the Blue Pill foundation it’s built upon is flawed because it is influenced and conditioned by the Feminine Imperative that always expects him to focus outwardly instead of making himself his own mental point of origin.

If they were honest, these are the guys who will Beta Hamster their Blue Pill ideal of the ‘right’ girl being any one who acknowledges his Blue Pill Frame.

There’s usually some self-evincing rationale that sounds similar when a Blue Pill guy has his Frame challenged by a woman unwilling to play along with his “world”. Whether he comes to this by rejection or simply observing women’s solipsism and duplicity, the reasoning is never about the validity of what his Frame is based on, but rather the disqualification of a woman who contradicts his ego-investments in it (i.e. they become “low quality women” to him).

However, many a White Knight will have what, for all purposes, is a very strong personal Frame. This dedication to a Blue Pill conditioned mindset is central to their ego-investments and it’s a big reason why it’s so difficult to unplug a man from it apart from some trauma that shakes his investing his personality in it. And even then, it’s far easier to disqualify the women who want nothing to do with his Frame than it is to get him to reconsider his fundamental, Blue Pill, old books belief-set.

As I was picking apart the conditions that lead to a man like Steve from last week’s post to becoming what he is, I found it’s important to highlight the determination with which most men will defend their Blue Pill investments and defend the investments of other Blue Pill men with whom it aligns with.

From Enter White Knight:

Every random chump within earshot of your conversation about Game, about your ‘changed’ way of seeing inter-gender relations, about your most objective critical observations of how women ‘are’, etc. – understand, that chump waits everyday for an opportunity to “correct” you in as public a way as he’s able to muster. That AFC who’s been fed on a steady diet of noble intent, with ambitions of endearing a woman’s intimacy through his unique form of chivalry; that guy, he’s aching for an opportunity to prove his quality by publicly redressing a “villain” like you for your chauvinism. Even under the conditions of relative anonymity (like the internet), he’ll still cling to that want of proving his uniqueness just on the off chance that a woman might read his rebuff and be fatefully attracted to him.

The more invested a Blue Pill man is in his Frame, the more ardent a White Knight he’s likely to be. The problem in all of this is that his dedication to that Frame, and the expectation that ‘quality women’ will rationally and deductively appreciate it, is in error. Women fundamentally lack the ability to fully realize, much less appreciate the sacrifices a man makes to facilitate their reality. Even the most enlightened, appreciative woman you know still operates in a feminne-centric reality.

It’s easy to spot (and get annoyed with) a White Knight when he comes to the aid of M’Lady on an internet forum, but the defender-of-the-faith behavior also extends to other men, like himself, given to the same Blue Pill Frame and ideals. From a Red Pill perspective we know this is virtue signaling, but it’s also indicative of reaffirming a White Knight’s dedication to a Frame and belief-set that requires a constant reassurance in the face of so much observable contradiction.

Blue Pill Frame / Red Pill Awareness

In the manosphere, there’s a tendency to characterize the Blue Pill mindset with non-assertive “people pleaser” men conditioned from an early age to defer to women and sublimate themselves to the Feminine Imperative. For the most part, that generalization fits, but I think it’s important to understand that it’s entirely possible for otherwise very Alpha men to invest themselves in Blue Pill paradigms and then build Frames up around them.

While I was writing this, reader Softek had a very good take on how Frame can be applicable from both an Alpha and a Beta perspective:

Steve’s relationship is PERFECT.

It is in EXACT ALIGNMENT with his Frame.

His Frame, which he voluntarily maintains, is that of a Beta male. Weak, submissive, and priming him perfectly to be cuckolded.

Similarly, my relationship with my GF is perfect.

It’s in exact alignment with my Frame.

This is how it always works. It’s the only way it CAN work. Your Frame is your reality, period, end of story. I’m sticking to this idea of women having no Frame, because I think it can help men to realize that the man’s Frame – as far as the man is concerned – is the only thing that matters.

I’m going to stop here because this is one of his few assertions I don’t entirely agree with. Women’s innate sense of Frame is informed by their fundamentally solipsistic nature. How that solipsism is expressed can take different forms, but in all instances it places the experience of the woman as being central to her own importance.

The easy example is the Frame grab I outlined in The Talk where a woman (consciously or otherwise) seeks to assert her experience as being the primary Frame or when a man abdicates his Frame to satisfy a woman’s need for long-term security. The other side of this is that even when women are considered ‘powerless’, and they are acted upon (hypoagency), their solipsistic experience is still central to the nature of any Frame because that presumption of powerlessness informs her solipsism and she builds her Frame around it.

Women most definitely have a Frame; it is informed by solipsism and its state is determined by what her need for optimizing Hypergamy demands at any phase of her maturity and how well she is likely to consolidate on it. I understand what Softek is getting at here, but just observe Beta men who are trapped in submissive roles to their dominant wives and you’ll see how he’s acted upon within her Frame.

If your Frame is what you really want it to be, you’re all set. You will simply not put up with BS, so it won’t be necessary to calculate what kind of BS or shit tests are being thrown at you, because you’ll automatically pass them without even being conscious of them.

At a deeper level, there is no your reality vs. her reality, or who has more power in the relationship.

It all goes back to your relationship with yourself. Your Frame. You decide what you accept in your life, and what you don’t accept.

Everyone has been telling me to get out of my relationship. Why? Their Frame is different. Maybe they have more self-respect. Maybe they have more confidence. But ultimately, their Frame is different.

They would not put up with half the BS I’ve put up with. They would’ve been gone a long, long time ago and onto greener pastures.

I’m getting what I deserve. I’m getting the relationship that is PERFECT for me, which means it’s perfectly aligned with my [current, malleable, changeable] Frame.

Frame isn’t set in stone. It’s ours to control, and ours alone, because it belongs to us each individually.

If I want a different relationship, I need to change my Frame. What do I want? What am I willing to accept? What am I not willing to accept?

This is a very important point, to understand that Steve’s relationship is PERFECT….for him. A complete match with his Frame.

If you dig into WHY he’s in this relationship, it’s for that reason and that reason alone: it resonates with his Frame. It resonates with the perception he has of himself, and the rules he’s laid out for himself in his life.

He is doing exactly what an Alpha does: living 100% by his Frame.

It’s just that his Frame is weak and submissive instead of strong and self-serving.

It’s funny when you look at things like this. When you realize you’re already “Alpha” in the sense that you know how to live 100% in your Frame….what’s stopping you from changing your Frame?

You already know what it’s like to hold Frame. Not everyone can stay in an abusive, sexless relationship. It takes a pretty extreme Beta to put up with all that. I am a fucking Beta God. I will put up with more abuse than any man on this planet. I’m the most abject Beta in the world.

(I’m being deliberately hyperbolic here, bear with me)

The most abject Beta is simply the other side of the Apex Alpha coin.

Both stubbornly hold to their Frame. The Beta holds to his Frame to his inevitable cuckolding and destruction; the Alpha holds to his Frame to his self-gratification regardless of who tries to shame him or bring him down.

We need to stop thinking “Beta Bad” and “Alpha Good” and realize that Frame is subjective.

I may not agree with some of this, and considering Softek’s dependence on maintaining his relationship it’s easy to see why he feels this way, however, he does touch upon some foundational aspects of Frame. Yes, women get the men they deserve, or in this case, women enter into relations with the men who align with what they’ve created.

As I mention in Frame, yours should be a world women will want to enter or you will be entering her Frame. That said beware the motives of the woman who would eagerly embrace a Beta’s Frame. Those motives are rooted in necessity and not genuine desire. Just ask Saira Khan.

Understanding that a solid sense of Frame – literally creating a reality in which you live and expect others to interact within – is central to success is not a difficult concept to grasp for most men. Whether or not they feel an ownership of that Frame, or a motive to employ it, is what defines men’s understanding of it. And this discomfort men have in insisting upon a solid, active, Alpha Frame is precisely what the Feminine Imperative has sought to condition into men for going on five generations now.

Recently I’ve been commenting on yet another article of feminist triumphalism, glorying in the statistics that women are far happier after a divorce. This is standard feminist boilerplate, but the bloody handed cruelty of articles like this always ignore that the “men” they denigrate are the direct results of a generational conditioning that leads men to swallow Blue Pill idealism and abdicate Frame in the name of a nebulous egalitarian equalism.

As 39% more men put a gun in their mouths after a divorce, women will bemoan a generation of men the Feminine Imperative created to abdicate their Frame. So yes, when it comes to men becoming despondent and suicidal after having their Blue Pill idealistic ego-investments destroyed by the same imperative that invested it in them, yes, “Beta Bad” and “Alpha Good”.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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redlight
redlight
6 years ago

It’s a true story

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

In case she deletes it, one year ago: “Haha it was my boyfriend. Was yelling at him then BAM. Stopped yelling after that lol” four months ago, in reply to “haha ,that will only encourage him to do it again(seeing how it seemed to “get the job done” pretty well)”, Emily says: “Yeah true. Idk why I was putting up with it. I told him that I won’t put up with it and that he needs to control his anger. He’s stopped now.. He hasn’t hit me for over 6 months now :D” In the comments of: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nAy20SBW544 She also… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ YaReally ” I rarely kino and often don’t even touch the girl until we’re in my apartment (aside from holding my elbow out with my hand in my pocket for her to hook her arm in arm-in-arm on our way to my apartment from the Day2 location).” Really man??? Lol, I am surprised to read this. I woulda bet the farm that you were a kino guy. Idk why I assumed that, but I guess I just got a vibe from you that way. So lemmeasku, do you think it’s harder to get a chick without physical contact? I… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

” “Yeah true. Idk why I was putting up with it. I told him that I won’t put up with it and that he needs to control his anger. He’s stopped now.. He hasn’t hit me for over 6 months now :D” ”

#GofuckyourselfEmily

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ SJF “..She started to give me a jawing on the second tee. I told her to not tell me how to golf, I’ve only been doing it for 40 years.as he stands on the tee. My requirements are silence and she couldn’t comply. ” Lol. Cosign this -> ” In my experience, the worst thing a woman can do is get in a man’s head …” +100. Today my wife tried to pick the lock to get inside my head. I was surprised by the effort. So I asked her ” what gives?”. I hurt her feelings evidently. I… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Memo:

Yellow is complementary to purplely-blue on the color wheel and green is complementary to red. To neutralize.

As well, the feminine is complementary to the masculine. To energize.

Neutralizing the masculine carries consequences. Blandness ensues.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“So I gave her one of those ” If you’re feelings were hurt by anything that you THOUGHT I said, then I am sorry…. for you”.” Lol. Same here. My apology for being a dick was me implying that I was a dick on the first two holes (an impudent masculine dick setting limits on the sanctity of the game of golf as observed for how men golf and shouldn’t be subjugated to the feminine, social way of golf) sorry for her not knowing the score. Agree, Amplify, Set Limits. Definite compliance on her part. And peace and sublimity ensued.… Read more »

mersonia
6 years ago

@Yareally

“I rarely kino and often don’t even touch the girl until we’re in my apartment (aside from holding my elbow out with my hand in my pocket for her to hook her arm in arm-in-arm on our way to my apartment from the Day2 location).
Physical approaches are cool, but you don’t NEED kino so don’t worry about it.”

“Kino’s not necessary.”

Unless your a newbie who doesn’t know how to kino……….

Then you have to learn how to kino because it is necessary unless you know how to do it already ( and can escalate without it)

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

@Blaximus “Really man??? Lol, I am surprised to read this. I woulda bet the farm that you were a kino guy. Idk why I assumed that, but I guess I just got a vibe from you that way.” I kind of knew this when I made my kino comments in the whole thread. About YaReally. He has a lot of PUA skill to overcome this. It’s not a lot of deficit for him in PUA game or me in LTR, monogamy game, at least in my experience. I don’t extol the virtues of not employing it, and need to get… Read more »

The Man
The Man
6 years ago

SJF – you changed the subject. My query with you, wrt your earlier comment was …….”by your last comment I take it that we agree on a whole lot more than we disagree on, wrt the cooperative qualities of humankind. The difference of opinion seems to be centered on how much of this (the cooperative quality, among other qualities for that matter, some contrary) translates beyond smaller groups, into the larger and larger organizing platforms of people as beings with personal agency.” SJF – do you agree that the innate qualities of human beings’ social nature translate beyond smaller groups,… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ Sentient … 3 days late ” At the end they ALL came to me, who had the most money and said I should by ALL the phones for them… since that was FAIR. And they were ALL in agreement with this. No phones were bought. 100% consensus I should buy the phones… 0% phone actualization rate.” YESSS!!!!! This is how it should be done. My youngest wanted an iPhone, even though her Android was perfectly fine. I didn’t buy the android, it came in a package ” deal ” with a plan from the provider, so she wound up… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Blaximus “Lol, I am surprised to read this. I woulda bet the farm that you were a kino guy. Idk why I assumed that, but I guess I just got a vibe from you that way.” I’ve DONE and can DO kino, I started out with lots of it because back in the day it was a core part of the system like peacocking or palm-reading (yes Scray I’ve done the serious cold-read stuff too lol). And I still do it here and there for fun but it’s rare for me. Kino comes with some downsides, like raising ASD if… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“Like I say, it’s fine to DO kino. I’m just pointing out the absolute statements that kino is necessary are inaccurate.”

I totally get it. And Agree. And appreciate you saying that. It soothes my ego. Ask me how I know.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ SJF Rollo said- ” It should also be emphasized that this Kino is only ever effective after a dominance / affirmation seeking relationship is established. Using effective Neg Hits, demonstrating higher value (DHV) and making your target see you as the PRIZE is essential. Kino without a pretext of higher value only worsens your approach and you slip into the creepy zone. Strategic Kino is just one tool in a Man’s tool box and using Kino prior to setting yourself up as the objective for her will in all likelihood turn her off to you. You have to establish… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ Ya ” If I was taking any of you guys here into the actual field with me, the first thing I would do is take away any of your crutches. Blaximus wouldn’t be allowed to touch any girls and would have to go to the club alone so he has no friend to build energy with. Rollo would have to eat a huge meal and dress in baggy clothes so he looks fat, probably sweatpants too and no recent haircut. theasdgamer wouldn’t be allowed to dance or mention dancing. Culum would only be allowed to interact with girls under… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Rollo @Blaximus @SJF “Using effective Neg Hits, demonstrating higher value (DHV) and making your target see you as the PRIZE is essential. Kino without a pretext of higher value only worsens your approach and you slip into the creepy zone.” And just for the sake of accuracy, going back to the subcomms stuff, you can DHV with just your subcomms if they’re tight enough which is how Tyler’s “hand of god” opener (just make eyes with a girl and extend his hand for her to take and then pull her in and kino her) or “pick the girl up in… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

” Like I have a friend who’s hair is starting to thin and he’s worried he’s going to get a bald spot. When he gets one if he starts making excuses to not approach or escalate because of it then I’ll probably shave a bald spot into my hair and go sarge with him just to show that it doesn’t matter and take away his excuses so I can have my confident wingman back lol” Now THAT’S Dedication. Hair is unimportant in the big picture. If a guy thinks it’s important, it will fuck up his subcomms..” is she looking… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Blaximus “Lmfao. Best chuckle of the day.” lol it’s also a demo of how part of the way I handle guys infield is figuring out what their crutches are as fast as possible (in seconds of observing them ideally). Like most guys wear their crutches/insecurities on their sleeve. A guy who’s jacked or dressed nice with a nice haircut probably believes looks matter so to compete with him I’ll just show that I don’t value looks and get the girls to devalue looks as well (imply that he’s one of those guys obsessed with the gym and guys who put… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

SJF – do you agree that the innate qualities of human beings’ social nature translate beyond smaller groups, into the larger and larger organizing platforms of people, as I contend (and for which Harari has provided a plausible modus operandi via “the narrative”), or not? If you agree – then there will be implications for humanity as a whole – yes? If you do not agree – why not? you don’t really pay attention or care, do you Man? My answer is unequivocally NO! And so is Hariri’s. And that is your sticking point. “Sapiens” by Hariri clearly demonstrate on… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Blaximus “Now THAT’S Dedication.” lol the reality is I’ll probably have a bald spot or go bald myself one day so it would be for both our benefit…I get my confident wingman back because his brain is forced into a corner where he can’t make excuses to not push his sets, and I gather reference experience evidence for myself that my hair doesn’t matter. Win/win. But I hope he has strong enough internal game to not care when it happens ’cause I LIKE my hair lol But whatever it takes. Note that the idea that I might shave a bald… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

@Blaximus You are a clinically retarded natural masculine guy when it comes to active gaming. But that’s OK. I have never heard you comment on a Situ where you lacked mastery or power over your domain. Which is fantastic. Iconic male. Great role model. Keep it up. You don’t get how good you are at sub-comms and how kino touching is normal. For you. No need to doubt yourself or suppress your your skill. The gist is: other guys got to imitate your behavior. Normal masculine male behavior. It is necessary for newbies to the red pill in a culture… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

Blax does fine invading people’s space due to confidence in his course of action (it’s no big deal to him), a positive nonthreatening vibe, and by reading lots of little body language cues he’s likely mostly unaware of. If ya ain’t got that don’t do it. I was also surprised when YaReally said back when that he doesn’t use much kino any more, but it’s been starting to make more sense to me how you could do that and now this recent comment makes it clear why it might be a GOOD IDEA to avoid it sometimes. Because ya, I… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ YaReally ” I can’t fucking WAIT till I have grey hair. That would look so badass lol Grey hair is COOL now. In the 80s you’d see commercials for hair dying products for men all the time but you don’t see those much if ever these days because grey hair is now associated with cool older male celebrities, the Silver Foxes of Hollywood.” Haha Haaaaa… My Dad looks so much like this guy that people stop him constantly to ask him… http://www.eurweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/morgan-freeman-dolphin-tale-premiere.jpg ” Are you Morgan Freeman?”. I even had to look up Morgan’s background just to be sure… Read more »

The Porcelain Doll
6 years ago

Reblogged this on perfectlyfadeddelusions.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ Forge Hey Man!!!! ” Blax does fine invading people’s space due to confidence in his course of action (it’s no big deal to him), a positive nonthreatening vibe, and by reading lots of little body language cues he’s likely mostly unaware of. ” Lol. It’s funny that you said this, because I’ve been sitting here thinking every since SJF posted the quote from Rollo’s OP. I’m trying to go over in my mind, what it is that makes me think it’s okay to kino so much, and if I can figure it out, can I explain it here. Like… Read more »

theasdgamer
6 years ago

I went out and tried out a new joke I’d heard and it was very well received. Slow night in a bar…two guys and the bartender. One guy goes up to the bartender and says, “I’ll bet you 100 bucks I can pee into a shot glass from ten feet away and not spill a drop.” The bartender takes the bet and the man pees all over the bar and the bartender, then gets out 100 bucks and pays the bartender. Both the man and the bartender are smiling. The bartender is curious why the man is smiling. The man… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

I like talking about the weather with girls. “It’s been really dry the past three weeks. We could really use some rainfall. Not a quick, hard rain. Long, slow, and persistent rain. Let the water penetrate deep into the soil so the plants are satisfied for a long time. “It’s gotten bad enough I’ve been having to water the plants myself. Shit sucks. But usually things build up in the air so when it does rain it should be pretty epic. Don’t you think?” (Only do this after multiple innuendo compliance tests have been passed or it’ll be really awkward… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

Hey Blax! It’s not retarded, it’s just a nonconscious skill. And the lack of fear that allows ya to follow an innate gut feeling without questioning it. I remember an account you gave of going to a bar and making eye contact with some hottie coming up to the bar, then having full body contact w your arms around her within seconds – and analyzing ‘how the heck did I DO that?’ So yeah, I’m sure you could reverse-engineer some of that stuff. But it’s hard. I have a co-worker who does the same job as I do, and part… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“SJF is right, I’m clinically retarded about this. I will think about it for weeks now, and still not be able to explain to guys/newbies how or why I haven’t gotten my face slapped off. Lol.” You are a normal masculine male. No one can fix normal. You are the most normal guy (masculine) here. Come on Blaximus, shit, don’t think about it. Just report your actions. Thinking will change your au naturale masculine behavior. Remember back to your Oprah-ization. Never fucking again. You be you. And tell us you. Report how a guy like you operates. It is imperative… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ SJF @Forge ” The Hawthorne effect: The Hawthorne effect (also referred to as the observer effect) is a type of reactivity in which individuals modify or improve an aspect of their behavior in response to their awareness of being observed.” this^^^^ I’m wary of modifying anything. I told Ya a month or more ago that I was gonna go out in the field and approach ( what seemed like a hard to approach younger chick ) so I could report with a decent breakdown of what happens. So far I’ve got nothing to report that’s interesting. Because of the… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Ok. This sentence was random..

” but I make a point to clear my mind about what I’m gonna report here to the fellas”

What I meant was, I clear my mind when engaging a chick and don’t think about what’s happening at that time – and what I’m going to report to the fellas here. That would be like thinking about the superbowl celebration when it’s just the 2nd quarter. Lol.

The Man
The Man
6 years ago

SJF: “My answer is unequivocally NO!” Alright good to know. That sentiment was not at all clear in your earlier comment. “And so is Harari’s” – wrong. See Harari’s ideas about the inter-subjective. I don’t agree with Harari wrt some of his conclusions but he in fact does outline how the human capacity for the intersubjective (or the “narrative” as I said earlier) does provide a mo for the translation of qualities of the human social nature (like the cooperative quality, among other qualities for that matter, some contrary) beyond smaller groups, into the larger and larger organizing platforms of… Read more »

Ranger
Ranger
6 years ago

@SJF I read most of the book, and yes, I am definitely a recovering nice guy. But most of the time during the past year, ever since getting in contact with these ideas, has been spent on self-improvement (got to the gym and my weight down to a good level, lifting weights, and improved my style) and establishing boundaries and limits and expressing what I want to my ex-wife (basically Athol Kay’s MAP, though without the guts to actually go out and approach). Only after 7 months of doing that with no respect coming from her (it had even gotten… Read more »

walawala
walawala
6 years ago

Blue Pill Frame: Actress hits wall, gets together with her “friend” of 15 years. The story seems to be written from a Red Pill perspective and doesn’t buy it one bit…

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3681929/Lisa-Snowdon-finds-love-friend-15-years-unlucky-relationships-George-Clooney-Gary-Dourdan.html

Best quote: Support system: George (seated next to Lisa) was her shoulder to lean on when she split from her ex, with the pair eventually growing closer

She was banging George Clooney and everyone else…now she’s settling for Geroge.

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@ranger

You need to do some lifting, in this case not physical lifting, but mental lifting. Spend the next month reading the YaReally Archive and watching the videos he links to. Get out and try stuff.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

For those of you who don’t use kino because you are frightened of a negative reaction… realize that you can also have negative reactions just doing an approach… It’s not common, but it can happen… can happen by sexualizing conversation… [heh happened to me once with a NYU student…. sitting on a bench in the park, chatting… she was going on about my being married… I said if she kept it up I would have to put her over my knee and spank her… she starts with the whole ‘You’re threatening me” bit… I held in and turned it around… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

Speaking of kino and laser, check out this ridiculous shit Julien’s pulling in the latest Tyler vid:

https://youtu.be/REBEEh2h07o?t=18m

That’s a lot more my style than a lot of his stuff lol.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

@Ranger “But in my subconscious mind I am still the unpopular, overweight (I was extremely obese in my 20s, around 300 pounds. Now I am at 180), awkward, nerdy kid, who couldn’t even get a girlfriend, or even a lot of friends for that matter….. If I am invited to a house party and I bring some special drink or food from my country, which I know people will enjoy. Is doing that bringing value? Is it being a people-pleaser? How is that kind of thing perceived most of the time?” Some suggestions after reading your thoughts: You need to… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

One more point Ranger.

Game: A tool to transform mundane male personality into mesmerizing so that women find you sexually attractive and other men admire you.

Commenter Newlyaloof put together some of YaReally’s best stuff on how to start in game on his blog:

https://newlyaloof.wordpress.com/2013/05/02/why-yareally-need-to-learn-game/

fleezer
fleezer
6 years ago

“she starts with the whole ‘You’re threatening me” bit” lol. I find this kind of reaction in the mid to late 20s group. many of them are boring and lonely, just working and watching netflix and drinking and their friend group has been replaced by work acquaintances and they are mentally unstable after riding the carousel for a decade so they think everything is a threat because they watched some reruns of csi or something at night when they can’t sleep. “I’m going to kill you and bury your body where no one will ever find it” that’s a threat.… Read more »

babysnakes
babysnakes
6 years ago

@all Thanks for the comments. I just heard that the ex is going to bring her branch to a festival we’re going to attend in 2 weeks. I can’t lie; it fucking stings! I asked her many times if there was a guy she had the hots for at her school(cuz if she had we could just end it, and I wouldn’t waste my time) and she always denied, yet look at this, she fucking brings the brand new guy from school with her to this festival(where we have shared history blahblagh). It really is outrageous. It’s not even that… Read more »

walawala
walawala
6 years ago

@babysnakes: “I’m going to contact her in a few days to see if she’s up for at meet.” Don’t. Don’t. Don’t. Take it from me…your imagination and your denial are playing tricks on your mind fooling you into thinking you can win this…this is “one-it is” in its most basic form—obsessing over a girl who cheated on you and left. It took me 18 months to finally walk away from mine. In that time I was strong but she made a variety of solicitous approaches—mean, nasty, nice, sweet—anything to get me to react. She even came out on New Year’s… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“Any suggestions how to handle seeing her with this new guy?”

Get through the grief stages of denial, anger, bargaining and depression. Accept that these feelings are normal. Deal with them and work through them and come to Acceptance by:

1.) distance-stay away from her 2.) time 3.) distraction 4.) new stimuli-friends activities or new girls

Don’t go to the festival. If you do go to the festival stay away from her.

Don’t see her with the new guy.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“There’s a great post in Rationalmale about “Dumpster Diving”—read it.”

https://therationalmale.com/2011/09/08/rooting-through-garbage/

fleezer
fleezer
6 years ago

“she fucking brings the brand new guy from school with her to this festival(where we have shared history blahblagh). It really is outrageous.” it’s not outrageous at all…. to a woman. once they’re done with a guy, shared history means nothing, even if you’re a chad who turned her inside out it’s the ultimate I don’t give a fuck attitude because she really doesn’t give a fuck. at all. it’s all about her. while fictional, the show the sopranos (where mad men’s weiner got his start with the mad men pilot script) had a lot of human truth, from tony’s… Read more »

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@SJF, babysnakes “Any suggestions how to handle seeing her with this new guy?” “If you do go to the festival stay away from her. Don’t see her with the new guy.” Not possible with this type of woman, she will track him down at the festival like a bloodhound on a wounded rabbit. Now consider if you had a car you really liked, it had fake leather seats, sporty. However it was getting older, stalls often, in the shop a lot, unreliable. So you get rid of it for a newer car, with real leather seats, sporty, the latest electronics.… Read more »

babysnakes
babysnakes
6 years ago

@relevant people
thanks for the comments, but I meant the new plate! Not the ex:-) That’s strictly no-contact and has been for 2 months now.

babysnakes
babysnakes
6 years ago

@redlight
Amen!

The things is, and this is where it really get’s outrageous….we are going to live in the same part opf the festival, and we’re going to hang with some of the same people. As I said, this chick is the cousin of my good friends GF. My friends DO think she’s a bit of a turd after all this, but she’s family after all.

I’m absolutely NOT going to give her the satisfaction of me not attending this event…

scray
scray
6 years ago

@ya palm-reading (yes Scray I’ve done the serious cold-read stuff too lol). And I still do it here and there for fun but it’s rare for me. lol i believe that. only a PUA with 50 years of experience can do it” skillset…it’s just understanding the difference between “oh you’re a nurse, you must be nurturing” (no hate Scray, just using an example of something that isn’t sexual in terms of actual word-content. say this is a txt message or something) and “oh you’re a nurse, hmmm I think I might need a spongebath later” I don’t even see the… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@fleezer once they’re done with a guy, shared history means nothing, even if you’re a chad who turned her inside out Mystery had a saying…(paraphrasing) “when the love is gone, it will be like she never knew you at all.” /rant that’s why getting hung up on insecurities really doesn’t fucking matter because they don’t matter in the end. men need higher concepts, they’re bound by concepts and adhere to them. that’s why they can offer unconditional love and shit. so just….redirect that need toward a higher cause and mission, and that’s it. chicks are gonna do some fucked up… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@Scray Yeah, agreed. I suppose my kino comment came across as a bit too pro-kino, it just happened to be a thing that helped me in my specific situation back when. Which is why I clarified later. And when it worked, I actually hardly touched her till we had isolation – then when I escalated I did so pretty hard, but pulled back the instant I felt something other than full acceptance. Her: “You’re…very forward…” Me: “Yes. But I’m a gentleman about it.” [cheeky grin]. Her: “…you kind of are…” Boundaries. She has them. Work with them, not against them.… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@Scray @Fleezer

Yup. Alpha or beta, you can’t escape biology. Don’t pursue idealistic outcomes, create them in areas where it’s possible to. And leave them be where it’s not. Mindset uber alles.

[beats above paragraph into own head lol]

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

“Now, this is a girl ten+ years my junior and I’m here to tell you that YaReally is absolutely right when mentioning how busy these girls’ phones are. It really is amazing. The thing goes off all the damn time!’”

This weekend I was talking to the parents of a 16 year old daughter. Everytime she posts a selfie on Instagram she gets 500 likes. Literally doing nothing, face close-up, smiling or pouting, trying out head tilts, 500 likes.

scray
scray
6 years ago

@forge Yup. Alpha or beta, you can’t escape biology. Don’t pursue idealistic outcomes, create them in areas where it’s possible to. And leave them be where it’s not. Mindset uber alles. I mean, when it comes time to DTR I more or less lay the cards on the table — “I’ll love you forever and be in your life forever, that’s just how I am, but….I can’t promise you monogamy.” That’s blackdragon’s approach, too. I mean, part of it is the fact that I’m like 70% TotH 30% PloS guy. I need to be always getting into new situs and… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

“we know that women will not ever take responsibility for the seduction, but that doesn’t mean YOU necessarily have to. ”

You do have to have good logistics and you do have to lead though.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Scray The Thin Man uses the same Day2/Day 3 model (posts on Sedfast) because he doesn’t like LMR. Initial pick up is brief… short Day 2 and then drink and his place day 3. Similar to my hang bang proto game model… heighten their anticipation… TAO of Steve style… Dex: Both men and women want to have sex. It’s natural, except we’re on different timetables. Women want to have sex, like, y’know, fifteen minutes after us, so alright, if you hold out for twenty she’ll be chasing you for five. This all can be done in SNL game though too…… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@sentient

You do have to have good logistics and you do have to lead though.

that’s true. I mean, ultimately, you will always have to take responsibility in the sense that you need to move it forward. but what I mean is how subtle or up front you are about that process can make a big difference.

newlyaloof
6 years ago

@Scray, when you first started posting way back in the day, I thought you were cream-puff. Did you hit the weights after you learned game or before? Just curious if you hit the weights as you went through YaReally’s advice or prior.

Now that I’m in my 40s, I have to get more serious about the gym. What came naturally in my 30s is now disappearing if I don’t hit the gym regularly and hit it hard. I used to be able to get a way with the minimum workouts, but not any longer.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Yes… but illustrate as well you parked the car in a dark place, you lead her to isolation with a false pretense etc.

sometimes the girl will lead…. LOL happens. But don’t count on it [Culum!]

scray
scray
6 years ago

@Sentient This all can be done in SNL game though too… just amp amp amp the attraction and have logistics. yeah it can be, I don’t mean to suggest you can’t compress things. Usually the difference between SNL and other time windows is just the margin of error allowed in whatever game you’re running. Most guys who do a lot of SNL are relying on a lot of passive value (nothing wrong with it). And I mean, lol, you can’t really go wrong with it unless someone starts tooling you and you can’t handle it. But doing SNL based mostly… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@newlyaloof when you first started posting way back in the day, I thought you were cream-puff. Did you hit the weights after you learned game or before? Just curious if you hit the weights as you went through YaReally’s advice or prior. I was borderline OBESE lol. and i mean, back then I had no fucking clue what would work and what wouldn’t, so like…I just jumpstarted EVERYTHING. My (almost finished then) grad school/career stuff, hit the gym hard, hit PUA hard, and hit trying to improve my style and shit hard too. so i tried and did it all… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@sentient Yes… but illustrate as well you parked the car in a dark place, you lead her to isolation with a false pretense etc. lol nah I really did want to listen to the music. Like, I always plan it so that it’s outcome independent. if she would have left, I would have been cool because I got to listen to some of my favorite tunes. So it’s not really ‘false.’ I was AUTHENTIC in my passion for the music. whatever else that came, hey, awesome. i try to be as honest as I can in the game. just makes… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

for me, I get rid of the ASD and LMR because I hide the fact that I have a good body. Being a natural bodybuilder is awesome because in (well-fitting) clothes, you don’t really notice much beyond ‘oh that guy seems fit.’ (in poor fitting clothes people notice nothing lol). But when she escalates ON ME and suddenly finds a hard body behind the clothes, it’s like a virtuous cycle that pretty much pours coffee all over those ASD LMR circuits This is true… another benefit of early kino… she will feel your strength… always the same reactions… a touch… Read more »

newlyaloof
6 years ago

@Scray, cool, that was I was thinking I remembered. Kudos on all the groundwork. Yeah, I usually only go for 30 minutes at a time too, but I haven’t been hitting it hard until this week. Five pounds of stubborn belly fat gone and I’d be a stripper. lol

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Scray … like you parked close to the door in the well lit part of the lot?

It’s cool I get you positioned things to be outcome independent about it IF it didn’t work… and yes that is much easier… Platinum Rule and all…

newlyaloof
6 years ago

@Sentient, I was just thinking the other day to tell you to start up a blog and post some Sentient Game on one location. I recently remembered a field report you did a while ago, but couldn’t find it. Thought I’d throw that out there.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Scray

“But doing SNL based mostly off built-game-value requires some very very tight game.”

Yes… which is built by trying SNL game, a lot. A virtuous cycle…

which is why I am against all the stair step advice… work up to it etc. You learn so much more by pushing every set and it is, 95% of the time, easier to calibrate back from going too far than to push further when you’ve not gone far enough.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

What’s up Newly? Been a while… How are you?

I don’t see a blog in the future… ha ha

scray
scray
6 years ago

@sentient This is true… another benefit of early kino… she will feel your strength… always the same reactions… a touch from her – immediate pop eyes or open mouth – and a quick follow up touch and a comment “wow… you are really XYS [hard, firm in shape etc] to which the best reaction from you is either meh… or “i’m not a piece of meat you know”… yup. i just prefer that to be when she’s isolated and there’s no limit on the escalation. then just nodding with a ‘you don’t say’ smirk is enough to peel the panties.… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@sentient Scray … like you parked close to the door in the well lit part of the lot? It’s cool I get you positioned things to be outcome independent about it IF it didn’t work… and yes that is much easier… Platinum Rule and all… lol THEY AREN’T MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. c’mon you know…’I need a reason to get her out here.’ Well, it helps if the reason is an honest one. You get it. Yes… which is built by trying SNL game, a lot. A virtuous cycle… which is why I am against all the stair step advice… work up… Read more »

newlyaloof
6 years ago

@Sentient: life is on a holding pattern lately. Much work stuff going on to take up all my time. Home life still sub-par but I’m happy in knowing that I’m already gone and feelin’ strong:

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

“Kiss her, start gently, and then for like 1-2 seconds make the kiss intensely sexual and push forward, and then BREAK….ROLL OFF. you should try to master the ROLL OFF. it lets them know you can take it or leave it, that you can walk away, that you don’t give a fuck.” Yeah thanks, this is exactly what I need to work on right now. Well that and opening more sets and bringing them to a hook point. Felt like I was chasing kino girl like 90% of the time bc I didn’t roll off, so she naturally let me… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@forge Yeah thanks, this is exactly what I need to work on right now. Well that and opening more sets and bringing them to a hook point. the roll off is a valuable subcomm. and it applies to every phase of the seduction. when you open, open hard and DHV yourself, but after a short amount of time….roll off. make her invest. if you’re doing your job right, you’re giving her good feelings and making her want more. if you just keep giving her good feelings, it’s going to DLV you in her eyes or at the very least sort… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
6 years ago

LOL@YaReally – I have just got to this page of the comments and saw my name. Blitz Week starting in ten days and “cold approach” and “younger girls” are priorities. Gonna be a lot of FRs coming although I’m not sure I can match Hank’s volumes..(great work on keeping it up btw Hank) I’m at another work conference today (all to do with breaking into the new field I mentioned before) and posting from a boring talk. I just really like chatting to people and building connections. Came in knowing a few people from the last conference and that plus… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
6 years ago

PS – I even had a very senior older guy with way more experience than me (in his 60s) ask me for help into breaking into the next level in his career. He has a lot of experience but he was operating a low level and wants to get into the inner circle and the really high-profile work and he literally saw me talking to some of the movers and shakers and was like “Can you help me do X work?” and it was just so surreal. I’ll help him if he actually does make the effort (like if he… Read more »

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@culum

“I’ll introduce him to people and stuff although he is TOTALLY unsuited for the kind of work he wants to do”

I see no upside for anyone by doing this

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Culum Incidentally, I had a guy tell me that a lot of people bring along the cute girls from their office because if they’re not in the inner circle for networking purposes it’s one of the best ways to actually get attention and “break in” to talking to senior people LOL… you kill me. Yes SEX SELLS… always has and always will. No matter the industry, no matter the level. from Rollo’s pour girls… through SJF’s pharma reps (for a looooong time Pfizer was notorious for having hot reps and handsome guy reps)… to real estate (where do 30 YO… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

I know lots of small companies like this….

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/11/19/the-modern-corporate-harem/

comment image?w=550&h=1827

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

“men need higher concepts, they’re bound by concepts and adhere to them. that’s why they can offer unconditional love and shit. so just….redirect that need toward a higher cause and mission, and that’s it.”

@scray

Just curious… You comfortable with a woman president? Not necessarily Hillary, just in general.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago
Harrison Bergeron
6 years ago

@all looking for some advice, maybe just organizing my thoughts on my current situation, Forge’s recent split seems pretty relevant. long story short, started seeing a coworker (shitting where I eat) last fall, now she brought up the monogamy talk. This is my first real relationship at 26, shy blue pill all my life, but I’ve been reading TRM and manosphere for a few years now, PUA principles, yareally archive more recently, so I *think* I entered it with a pretty good frame, but inexperience tells me probably not so strong. I know I’ve been giving mixed signals, lover-provider for… Read more »

ETA
ETA
6 years ago

random field report: In June I was on vacations in Europe, half of which was spent in France watching soccer games, the other half chillin’ in my home country with family, friends and some chicks. For someone like me living in the States, what happens in these cases is that there are lots of girls from home that try to lock me down. There’s many ways they go about it. For short term girls who just met you, they try to give you a good time. After you leave they try to be romantic and pressure you into something serious,… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“…said she didn’t see the point in me being exclusive . . .”

In this case, listen to the lady.

“She’s 26 as well and said she’s ready for marriage and family now, or at least she sees that as the reason for dating…I’m more afraid of giving her the bad feels of ending it more than anything else,”

If you just drop her cold now she’ll probably be married within the year, maybe two. Don’t sweat it. She’ll cope.

theasdgamer
6 years ago

@Sentient

Buy a house from her and get a free bj, lol.

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@sentient

you missed a space in house

theasdgamer
6 years ago

I had a fun time going clubbing this weekend…told the same joke 5 times, lol, trying to get better at timing and remembering how to tell jokes…one 20-something annoyed me giggling about my age with her gf…hurt my feewings just a tad, lol…her gf spilled a little condensation water on her jeans and I pointed it out and the gf said that she peed herself…so I segued into my pee joke.

Anybody else have fun this past weekend? Hey, you guys, c’mon, tell your stories to entertain the rest of us.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

The Person
“At some point we are gonna leave the current system of the social ordering being so contingent on the current economic model, behind ….. and create something better.”

People said stuff like that back around 1900. Then one major bank panic later the biggest war in history, World War 1.0, erupted and nobody knew how to stop it for years.

Still hung up on your “ought” vs. the “is”, dude.

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@fleezer “I find this kind of reaction in the mid to late 20s group. many of them are boring and lonely, just working and watching netflix and drinking and their friend group has been replaced by work acquaintances and they are mentally unstable after riding the carousel for a decade so they think everything is a threat because they watched some reruns of csi or something at night when they can’t sleep.” lol so accurate. I can’t even count the number of girls I’ve met/known who spend their like, random Tuesday night drinking a bottle of wine alone watching Netflix… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@ya Just a drive-by to point out that this is exactly what Mystery prescribed back in MM lol: end the kiss first. lol yeah, I always say like….if anyone in the know were to VIEW my sets and shit you’d see it was pretty cookie-cutter MM. Just to make a nuanced point: demonstrating strength to girls can be done even without muscles if you understand basic body mechanics. lol I was going to add in a whole paragraph about how ‘even if you’re fat, you can still show her you’re strong’ but then i was like ‘naaaah.’ but ya just… Read more »

gb_hill
gb_hill
6 years ago

Justin Wayne on D2s. Desert First:

Jimmy B
Jimmy B
6 years ago

watoday.com.au/wa-news/of-men-and-marriage-debate-rages-on-relationship-rescue-20160711-gq34xp.html

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@scray “why end anything?” More for impact than anything. What they’re going to do is let things slowly die off…she’s not going to lose her urge for a taste of Provider until she GETS it and realizes it tastes shitty, and he’s (ideally) not going to budge on his position, so he’s in for a lot of drama and shit and since he’s clearly caught full on feels he’s going to start fucking up and sabotaging his value as she looks for a branch and then can comfortably swing to a branch while his value is tanked so her new… Read more »

Harrison Bergeron
6 years ago

@ scray @yareally “If he were further along in his frame/skillset/success to where he could hold his value through her ultimatums and the drama this situation normally brings (crying about how it hurts to be with him knowing it won’t go anywhere because he doesn’t love her enough etc etc), and just stay rock solid then ya, stay in there and just hold frame. But he’s clearly not going to be able to do that given his post.” Basically what I’m worried about. Thinking about it, I keep coming up with more and more ways to sugarcoat it, keep from… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@ya okay that helps. yeah, I guess the whole ‘ ‘yeah, if you got another dude who can give you that, hey, i love ya kid, but i can’t give you what you want.’’ is ME/THE PUA/YOU ending it…but lol my internals slipped one past me cause I just wrote “yeah SHE’S ENDING it by even GIVING ME THIS DRAMA.” lol so nah, i totally agree. when the drama reaches some preset level where i feel annoyance for more than a second or two I’m just like ‘okay well….see ya! call me if you change your mind.” Basically what I’m… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@Harrison Bergeron You’ve got a rough spell ahead of you man. Once you let the beta emerge, there’s not really any way to part without it being emotionally painful. And you’ll constantly be battling against yourself as what you know you need to do fights against how the beta instincts are rationalizing you doing exactly the wrong thing. Just know that the pain is a normal part of the process, not a signal that you’re doing something wrong and need to fix it. Don’t backtrack when moving forward hurts. I wasn’t even too deep in w/ the FWB girl, but… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
6 years ago

LOL@Sentient yeah point taken about taking chicks to conferences. I saw it at the last 4 day resort conference too – I remember that CH post from way back about the “corporate harem” – I think it was just about the time I started reading CH and the manosphere.. YaReally – the tech guy who doesn’t talk to women at conferences etc – I think I read about some guy (maybe you posted it or someone else on CH) who is a tech millionaire who taught at Stanford, then met some girl and dated her for a while and her… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@Harrison Bergeron @YaReally i see YaReally has given you some great game advice, so i won’t double up…lol… (i’m strapped for time…) but i will point out that NOT lowering your value is EXTRA important in your situ… bc you were shitting where you eat…lol… if your value drops tooo much, she’ll have ‘regrets’… and suddenly you’re unemployed… (not to put tooo much pressure on you…lol) also… Marriage came up in conversation after sex, and I told her I don’t like the idea, and that I can’t see myself there at least not for a long time. She’s 26 as… Read more »

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[…] life. I’ve covered this idea in Frame as the first Iron Rule of Tomassi, as well as in Blue Pill Frame and in an interview of Mark Baxter and Carl from Black Label […]

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[…] Ansari is a Beta who made good. I’ve talked about the Blue Pill White Knights and self-righteous AFCs in many a post, but I’m not sure I’ve emphasized how dangerous […]

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