While I’d had another post on deck for today I simply couldn’t let Divided Line’s most recent comment go unanswered. I was going to riff on his comment in that thread, but it occurred to me that his concerns would be educational for many new readers and what I tell him here might give even my regulars something new to think about.
This is the part I can’t get. I can look back and see how my beta behaviors made it impossible for my ex to respect and love me. I see those behaviors for what they are, but what I can’t do is internalize a competing value system, or a competing idealism, one which would allow me to judge myself in the way you’re judging yourself here. I still get stuck on “but she *should* have loved me for those behaviors,” even if I understand on an intellectual level why she didn’t. Even if I game myself into believing I feel differently about it, I know that on some level, I’m still going to be hoping that every girl I get involved with will prove to be capable of fulfilling that blue pill idealism. I fully expect to just fall back into oneitis and needy supplicating behaviors whenever I meet somebody. they just creep up on you without you even realizing it.
When I go into the intricacies of men’s innate sense of idealism this is what I mean. In a Blue Pill context there will always be an expectation of some possibility of an ideal state with a woman. The problem here isn’t men’s idealism, but rather the conditioning of it to expect an idealized Blue Pill outcome.
From a strictly deductive standpoint DL’s ex should have loved him for the idealized, pro-social, pro-family, pro-parental investment, pro-providership and pro-egalitarian that were some of the most integral parts of his life’s Blue Pill conditioning.
The reality is that he’d been convinced of a Blue Pill social order founded on an Old Set of Books.
Let’s get real about it. It’s not like women have good reason to behave the way they do. Whatever evo-psych explanation we can come with, it doesn’t provide them with an excuse. They’re not stewards of the gene pool, there is no greater good that is served by hypergamy. In a modern context it’s a liability, not an asset. At the limbic level they’re screening for traits that would have been advantageous 20,000 years ago, not in a modern industrial or post industrial society. Should I try to convince myself otherwise and judge myself according to my evolutionary fitness or something? It seems absurd.
When I wrote Our Sisters’ Keeper I delved into the question of whether it could be expected of women to take responsibility for their own decisions, moral or otherwise. It generally comes down to a question of the seeming determinism that Hypergamy represents, and the deductive male-logic that, idealistically, expects women to take personal responsibility for the consequences of their actions.
In this respect Hypergamy doesn’t provide women with an excuse for the consequences, but the question of personal responsibility still doesn’t change the the underlying motivators, incentives and influences that Hypergamy exerts over women. The devil biology made me do it is the same alibi for Hypergamy as it is for men’s Selfish Gene.
While the software may change with the environment, our firmware and our hardware are still very much based in the evolution that benefitted our prehistoric predecessors. What measure you personally choose to judge yourself by is up to you, but again, the hardware and the firmware doesn’t change.
Under our modern social environment women have an unprecedented, virtually unilateral, stewardship of the gene pool. So much so in fact that women’s sexual selection strategy, Hypergamy and feminine social primacy are enforced by law and ensaturated into our social fabric. Whether this is for ‘the greater good’ or not all depends on who’s agenda defines what ‘good’ is.
For a very long time men had at least some measure of being able to direct the course that the gene pool was going. Men’s influence today is only as potent as women’s legislated sexual selection will allow them.
Women aren’t dogs, they’re human beings. They’re perfectly capable of self awareness and of awareness of others. In theory they’re perfectly capable of higher order idealism – anybody who can think at an abstract level should be. Women are unaware of themselves because the bar is so low for them, because they are profoundly privileged and everything is handed to them on a silver platter, not because they’re incapable of treating men in a way that would have made the blue pill equality ideal possible.
It really just boils down to a profound form of inferiority, their unwillingness to empathize or give a shit. They don’t care because they don’t have to. It’s a fundamental hollowness at the core of their character.
You’re presuming an egalitarian inspired similarity between men and women, and once again I’ll refer you to what I proposed above; you’re expecting software to override firmware and hardware. There are simply evidential and provable physical and cognitive differences between men and women.
I believe you’re correct – women are perfectly capable of self awareness and of awareness of others. In theory they’re perfectly capable of higher order idealism – however, this is not women’s firmware directive. It is not their initial mental point of origin.
True, women can learn to be empathetic, learn to be idealistic, and yes, learn to sublimate their innate solipsism, but their capacity to learn to override their firmware doesn’t erase the root conditions they must learn and practice to override.
And yes, we’ve reached a (western) social order that prioritizes and privileges women by setting the bar very low for them, thus making this ‘learning’, or even the desire to learn, to override their neural firmware not just a challenge, but entirely unexpected of them.
The capacity fro women to realize that Blue Pill ideal is there, but what this does is pit women’s innate dispositions against what men think would be an ideal state for both sexes, and then holds women personally responsible for not ‘learning’ to override their firmware.
Dalrock has a series of posts about feminism that blames men for the failures of feminism. Feminism would work if not for uncooperative men; the same is true for Blue Pill men – Blue Pill idealism would work if not for uncooperative women. Both blame the failures of their goal-states on the other sex’s personal / social character flaws without consideration of the hindbrain, firmware that always rebels against those states.
How do you just accept that and blame yourself for being beta? I’m not saying you shouldn’t, I’m saying I want to be able to do the same thing. I just can’t access that mindset.
What was so terrible about the blue pill equalism really? We all regard it with contempt, but we’re just being pragmatic, since it’s unworkable, a cruel lie we were all fed from birth. I get all that. But in and of itself, what was so terrible about it? Had it been possible – which it is not – would the idea been worthy of such contempt? I can’t convince myself of that.
Again, men’s idealistic root note wants some kind of cooperative Blue Pill harmony to exist in a mutually shared, mutually negotiated and mutually agreed upon state between men and women. Yes, Blue Pill equalism seems very pragmatic, that’s what makes subscribing to it so seductive, and potentially so damaging for idealistic men. The Feminine Imperative figured that out a hundred thousand years ago – men are the True Romantics, and that’s been their thumbscrew for millennia.
All I did was treat my ex the way I wanted to be treated. In fact, that’s all I did in any of my relationships. And not even because I was trying to be Ghandi or live according to some conscious code, but simply because that is what came naturally. That’s what made the relationship appealing and worth investing in in the first place. Feeling that way about her cultivated a selfless aspect of myself, one that I actually *like.* I miss feeling that way. I loved her because she inspired me to treat her the way I did, or to want to treat her that way. I can look back on it and see it as beta, and if I regard women like robots running an evo-psych script, I can see that it would have been impossible for her to love and respect me, I guess. So is that what it boils down to? Thinking about women as if they are children or dumb dogs and accepting it?
There is great power in the Golden Rule. I don’t mean that from the sentimentalist, “do unto others” perspective, but rather how available you make yourself to exploitation and manipulation when adopting that mindset. There is no position more vulnerable than an expectation of equal treatment from another for like treatment from yourself. It presumes a mutually shared acknowledgement of how that other would perceive treating you as they would themselves.
The fundamental differences between men and women (idealistic vs. opportunistic love concepts) virtually ensure that a conflict will occur when you pair this expectation of equal treatment and equal appreciation with the cardinal rule of sexual strategies:
The Cardinal Rule of sexual strategies:
For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed the other gender must compromise or abandon their own.
Men’s predilection for idealism make them the logical candidates for this compromise or abandonment of their own imperatives, however, in doing so they fall prey to self-sacrifice in the hopes of mutual appreciation, earning relational equity and all while idealistically affirming for themselves their own righteousness of that sacrifice. The more you suffer the more it shows you really care, right?
The problem then becomes one of women fundamentally lacking the capacity to appreciate the sacrifices a man must make to facilitate her own reality.
And thus we come back to the software vs. firmware conflict again.
This is what I mean when I say that women are “awful.” I don’t even have words for it. I don’t understand how I’m supposed to get past the contempt or sense of being wronged. You can tell yourself “stop being beta, bro. Don’t wish it was easier, wish you were better, etc.,” or anything you like, it doesn’t change the reality or the fact that I recognize the reality. It’s like trying to convince yourself that 2+2=5.
My idealism was co-opted to serve the FI, but what is competing idealism? Stoicism and being a badass who can take it? Beating myself up for being beta and striving for what? It’s like I’m supposed to improve myself, but I can’t see anything that I would actually regard as an improvement, just traits that would appeal to women’s hunter gatherer libido.
The first step is giving up hope on the Blue Pill ideals you’ve been conditioned to believe are desirable, much less achievable. You need to accept that Blue Pill idealism will never be achieved in a Red Pill paradigm.
The next step is to accept that you can create new hope and a new ideal founded on Red Pill awareness rather than succumbing to a nihilistic despair that’s based on the hope for Blue Pill falsehoods.
Men’s idealistic nature can either be his greatest vulnerability or the source of his greatest strength and drive. It’s the context and conditioning of that idealism that makes it a danger or a boon. Stoicism is a practical measuring of that idealism based on self-knowledge and a truthful understanding of the state in which a man lives (Red Pill awareness).
Why are we so much more idealistic and imaginative in our youth? Because we have very little life experience with which to measure that idealism against. This is exactly why the Feminine Imperative must condition men from an early age – to direct that idealism to its own Blue Pill ends before a man learns enough about his reality to reject the imperatives’ ends in favor of his own.
And that is why undiluted, uncompromised Red Pill awareness being widely available is a threat to the Feminine Imperative.
“I keep a BPD chick around just for the practice of learning to handle them.”
If anyone could handle it, it would be you. But, IMO even you are playing with fire man.
http://wfla.com/2016/01/20/mother-of-chance-walsh-sentenced-to-25-years-in-prison/
http://www.northjersey.com/news/n-y-woman-sentenced-to-two-life-terms-in-river-edge-double-murder-1.1406156
http://www.dearzachary.com/
(this is also why I walk past crying girls on bar nights lol I have buddies who will see that crying drunk girl sitting on the curb and try to play white knight and find out what’s wrong and help them but I just walk on past like they don’t exist ’cause it’s not worth the potential hassle. If I saw that chick who froze to death I would just close my blinds and maybe call 911 to mention her but I wouldn’t engage her or invite her in to warm up…if she’s walking around in the cold wasted and… Read more »
@Camaro
Another video of your future:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEPoO08IMog
Also record EVERYTHING. Any interaction that starts to escalate, get your phone out and hit record even if all you can get is audio. And any time you plan to have a conversation that COULD escalate, like telling her you want a divorce or telling her her behavior is unacceptable (lol like she cares) etc, set up the camera to record or keep it on you and record audio at the least. The jurors are gonna wanna see that stuff when she accuses you of beating her etc
“A BPD woman is a very real and present danger for certain men. ”
Dude, they murder BABIES! lol, Jesus. I think I have a post in Mod with links, but just go to google news and search for “borderline personality murder” Every fucking day these chicks are killing their boyfriends and children. Stay The Fuck AWAY.
“But like I say, I wouldn’t recommend that shit to anyone. I have enough abundance that I can peace out on this one at any time with no fucks given and no looking back. Most guys aren’t in that situation.” I’ll cop to being inarticulate enough to not fully express my ideas at times. I’m working on that. ” BPD chicks are not actually a bad thing for most men.” should have had articulated “after they exit the relationship and screw their head back on straight and then move on down the road a bit”. Interestingly, I even said this… Read more »
@SJF – Let me take a simple stab at this. If you are self-possessed enough a man to not get sucked into a BPD woman’s madness, the phase where she goes sexually maniacal can be fun for a man who enjoys wild monkey-sex. I’ve always run from the crazies, mostly as an adaptive response to my abuse as a kid that came out of therapy. I evaluate women and when I detect the deep crazy, I exit. But I have done short stints with a couple of women who were probably BPD and their insane sexual appetites were fun. It… Read more »
I keep a BPD chick around just for the practice of learning to handle them. Some nice little <25yo at the bar who throws a little shit-test is child's play after having the BPD chick test my frame like crazy. I literally keep this chick around to keep my frame tight.
This is like the Walking Dead’s Michonne and her pet walkers
@Andy “Dude, they murder BABIES!” Also that. But don’t worry, we’ll excuse them with “it’s just postpartum depression” or a million other excuses and let them off the hook. Once again I put forth the notion that Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (a growing trend where babies just mysteriously stop breathing and nobody is concerned about this, no autopsy or doctor can narrow down what’s mysteriously happening where babies just stop breathing and this isn’t viewed as some kind of plague crisis or some shit) is just chicks who regret having their kid or panic about the actual long-term realities of… Read more »
@redlight “This is like the Walking Dead’s Michonne and her pet walkers” lol btw her (female of course) therapist has convinced her it’s HEALTHY for couples to fight and that couples who don’t fight are hiding something. Which she’s taken to mean “just make shit up to fight about all the time”. She gets off on fucking after a fight, of course. But in this day and age where there are ZERO consequences for her taking it too far, it’s too risky a gamble to get involved with. @SJF “My friend is frequently identified as on par with the most… Read more »
“They’re not just dumb white trash crazy bitches off Jerry Springer that do this stuff.”
Also, they can have a VERY normal, and actually quite personable and charming facade. Which is why they can manipulate therapists, judges, juries, anyone really. Like, personally I think even @YaReally is fucking crazy for associating with one. And I’m a huge fanboi.
You can end up DEAD.
@Andy “Also, they can have a VERY normal, and actually quite personable and charming facade. Which is why they can manipulate therapists, judges, juries, anyone really. Like, personally I think even @YaReally is fucking crazy for associating with one. And I’m a huge fanboi.” Oh it’s 100% a bad idea. I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone. But I also very thoroughly understand the risks etc and have taken precautions so that she can’t affect my actual life. She’s in another part of the country so 99% of it is just text stuff. If we were in the same city it… Read more »
@YaReally
Be CAREFUL man.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Zachary_Turner
“On 4 November 2001, Turner made a total of three phone calls to Bagby’s residence in Latrobe. At approximately 1:00 p.m. local time, Turner embarked on a sixteen hour, 1,523 kilometre (946 mile) drive to Latrobe with her gun and ammunition inside a gun box in her Toyota Rav4. In the early morning of 5 November 2001, she confronted Bagby at his residence, “
“Your friend is an anomaly with the resources to survive a BPD chick. 99.999999% of guys will be FUCKED for life from it.” “You can end up DEAD.” “Oh it’s 100% a bad idea. I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone. But I also very thoroughly understand the risks etc….” “Let me take a simple stab at this. If you are self-possessed enough a man to not get sucked into a BPD woman’s madness, the phase where she goes sexually maniacal can be fun for a man who enjoys wild monkey-sex.” “I don’t think SJF is not very susceptible to the… Read more »
@YaReally “Once again I put forth the notion that Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (a growing trend where babies just mysteriously stop breathing and nobody is concerned about this, no autopsy or doctor can narrow down what’s mysteriously happening where babies just stop breathing and this isn’t viewed as some kind of plague crisis or some shit) is just chicks who regret having their kid or panic about the actual long-term realities of how hard raising a kid will be, holding a pillow over their face in the middle of the night as they make an emotional decision in the moment,… Read more »
@YaReally re that vid with the red sweater girl… holy shit, that was hot!…lol… it looks like she’s just a bundle of sex wrapped around a hindbrain in search of an alpha stud…lol…looks likes she would have been fine with that guy dragging her out of the car and raping her on the hood…lol…(and he could have…except for social ramifications of course…like prison…lol) it looks just like ‘foreplay’…wrapped up in a giant shit test…lol… her mating “cues”: 1:25 – preen… 1:36 – as he ‘pushes back’ as he leans into the car… she gets a tingle…(watch her leg…lol) 1:42 –… Read more »
@SJF
“(And thanks to the gay guy couple with a black adopted child next door that moved in for the schools, the assessed value of our homes is sky high.)”
How does that work lol?
@IAS, Re: Oxytocin
Oxytocin proves lack of female Empathy
http://scan.oxfordjournals.org/content/10/3/311.abstract
There’s your female in-group bias in black & white, as well as explaining women’s lack of empathy towards men.
Dark Side of Oxytocin
http://theconversation.com/why-the-love-hormone-may-be-less-rosy-and-more-rose-than-we-thought-42102
@YaReally
The internet justice page on the uber chick is pretty funny. Nice sarcasm thrown her way on her instagram page before she deleted it.
http://www.dailybrit.co.uk/all/internet-justice-for-anjali-n-ramkissoon/2/
Re: the Uber chick… I just wonder, with everything that is known about game, what was the BEST thing the dude could have done to get her to stop acting that way so he didn’t go to jail or some shit when the cops showed up and she made up some crazy story? Should he have just acted like it was a cute tantrum she was throwing to get his attention, completely ignored the way she was acting and told her something like “If you’re a good girl and wait for me here, we’ll do X tomorrow.”
Dutch, Two really nice gay guys have a black adopted child just short of first grade. They were in a suburban location with mediocre schools. So they choose a house right next to us. Because our school district is quite good and they were willing to pay top dollar before first grade started last fall. I was kind of annoyed. The neighbor wives and my wife and daughter thought that that would be “cute” to have some gay guys next door (because of MSM it is axiomatic that gay men are better than masculine hetero men). I see no benefit… Read more »
“Men are upset that the Blue Pill is a lie because if true, it would allow lower value men to still have desire sex.” False statement. Upsetting is the realization that “being a man” has different meaning for men and women. And realization that to get laid you need to cultivate qualities of what would be considered qualities of a lesser man by any historical masculine measure. And realization that a neurotic wrack with weak impulse control has much higher chances to get laid than a man with strength and composure. Ultimate Blue Pill Ideal is not a society of… Read more »
@SJF
Awesome that it played out that way.
Crazy:
http://www.fox9.com/news/51676845-story
More crazy:
http://news.sky.com/story/1512405/mother-jailed-for-suffocating-eight-babies
Good luck finding any stats correlating SIDS with murder. Then again see above links. The babies don’t have to die in their crib, some perps are more creative in their psychotic break.
SJF wrote: “I was kind of annoyed. The neighbor wives and my wife and daughter thought that that would be “cute” to have some gay guys next door (because of MSM it is axiomatic that gay men are better than masculine hetero men). I see no benefit to that for me. I’d rather a smoking hot, hetero- BPD chick that wants to cuckold her husband move in next door. Or at least be eye candy.” LMFAO! Sure, a hottie next door instead of gay guys could also be endless supply of soft dread material. BPD women are like crack for… Read more »
“SJF, so do you now have to prove you are more masculine than the gay guys? Are they openly flamers? Burden of performance?” They are totally normal appearing and acting and seem like wonderful parents. No drama whatsoever. No competition, my wife is her normal nice self to them. I’m normal to them. The first time I met the one guy I called him the wrong name by accident the next time I said hi. By accident. By his reaction, I know to do that on purpose in the future. He was tense and it was an accidental neg. Also… Read more »
haha, ahh… internet justice…
http://www.zazzle.com/uber_neurologist_shirt_mens-235029299379691305
@Avid Reader: http://therationalmale.com/tag/apex-fallacy/
The majority of men in the Spartan empire were not even citizens and its fall has been blamed on the social power accorded to its women.
” . . . a man with strength and composure.”
Is what a member of the ruling class wishes as properties of his indentured laborer.
” . . . a neurotic wrack with weak impulse control . . .”
A thumbnail description of Adonis, who was also portrayed as a metro-sexual, skinny fat girly man.
I think the girl I’ve been with has BPD. Very difficult coming out of 12-13+ whatever years incel, feeling like I finally got out and now being ensnared. I don’t feel like I can do this anymore. It’s a major mindfuck because I have no prior relationship experience. I have nothing to compare it to. What’s worse is I feel like my whole perception of sex has been distorted. I was at least somewhat optimistic about Game and being able to have sex/relationships as a normal part of my life. Now I just feel like I don’t want to have… Read more »
@Softek, she is a carbon copy of the BPD I wasted 3 years of my life with in my 20s. I mean right down to the bipolar love/hate shit with fantasy girls and even a casual glance at another girl on the street prompted grand mal seizures of irrational jealousy followed by disgust and denigration.
Eject now. This is confirmed BPD behavior.
@Dutchman the Uber chick… I just wonder, with everything that is known about game, what was the BEST thing the dude could have done to get her to stop acting that way so he didn’t go to jail or some shit when the cops showed up and she made up some crazy story? Game can’t save women from themselves. That woman chose to be belligerent. Doing what she wanted (give her a ride) just surrenders to her. Trying to charm her after she’s physically escalated and chosen to assault you is like jumping into a pig sty. At that point… Read more »
@Softek: ” I gave up on some other girls I was gaming out of guilt . . .”
And that is why you are where you are. What advice have you universally received here?
Don’t commit to this girl.
Spin plates.
Fuck other girls.
Snap the fuck out of it and do it.
Then next the bitch.
“Then next the bitch.”
Very carefully.
“Also one time he came to the door to ask if it was OK to put up a slip-n-slide for the son on the property line during the hot summer. I was in the library in my boxer shorts and intentionally answered the door that way-in my underwear.”
Another round of LMFAO. Hilarious shit.
Need some levity with the dark BPD stuff.
While we’re on the subject of guys having their Blue Pill reality obliterated, here’s a suuuuper oldschool video from like the pre-The Game days (thus the potato quality). Loverboy, an asian PUA made this to help inspire other guys who get into PUA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV9dYk49nEw
All you gotta do is go out and take control of your life.
@Andy: Indeed. There is no safe way to ditch a psycho, but the safest way I’ve found is to go complete supplicating wuss and let her monkey swing to some other poor bastard.
Then go complete no contact.
@kfg
Yep, I got so good at manipulating mine that I convinced her it was her idea then lathered her up about being the best gf ever, and such a good person, etc, etc… lol. She was so delusional she believed it. One month later texts me that she was raped… Two months later threatens suicide if I don’t help her move. lol.
What SJF says is right, as long as you make it out alive. Still, not something we should be advocating or joking about IMO.
Softek, I would never try to hurt you after reading your stuff off and on for maybe over a year now, but I read your comment to my husband to try to get his perspective and he said,
“Stop thinking with your fuckin dick and get the fuck out.
Think with the head on your shoulders, not the one between your legs.”
You men are so hard on each other… women would never say that.
You men are so hard on each other… women would never say that.
Men aren’t women
I’m not trying to hog bandwidth. Well maybe I am. And I’ll joke about it for sure because these are good illustrative cases for game. They prove the points. I would like to point out that if you Really listen to what YaReally and everybody else is saying about game, it is mindset, mindset, mindset. In regards to mentors, BPD chicks (danger, danger, Will Robinson….), financial matters, chainsaws, white gay neighbors with a black child (nothing wrong with that), losing out on the hot monkey-sex, adverse golf conditions………ETC. It is all about your mindset. You can choose to think any… Read more »
@all http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmrfwnNGlQ1qby36ho1_400.gif TBP, TRP, whatever rule set you can think of really doesn’t matter that much.The power comes from whoever is making the rules, not the rules themselves. Naturals spout TBP shit all the time and still slay effortlessly. Why? They have such a strong inner core and frame that it doesn’t matter. TRP helps a lot of guys because at the very least, if they follow those rules very literally and don’t deviate, they will have more success than if they did the same with TBP. it’s like training wheels in a lot of ways. it’s like ‘ya, the… Read more »
Whoever posted about Antifragile and Nassim Taleb – is it as good as his previous books? I read reviews saying it wasn’t great and never read it but his earlier books (Fooled By Randomness and Black Swan) made a huge impact on how I thought about the world in my twenties. In particular, his obsession with empiricism – just a fancy way of saying you need to observe how the world actually works and how things happen and then develop theories based off of that instead of having a theory and forcing facts to fit your theories. At the time… Read more »
There is no safe way to ditch a psycho, but the safest way I’ve found is to go complete supplicating wuss and let her monkey swing to some other poor bastard. Then go complete no contact. Slight change. Supplication risks becoming a beta orbiter (less sex, same drama). Instead become a self-absorbed wuss. Fail all shit tests and whine constantly about yourself. Her: Where should we go for dinner? You: I don’t know. I can’t decide anything anymore. I can’t figure out if I should buy white or brown bread. I mean one is better for you, I think, but… Read more »
@Redlight: My strategy was bicameral. That sort of spineless indecision is embedded in the wuss part. Basically, invert normal game. Everything you aren’t supposed to do because it makes women gag and clamp their legs shut – do that. ” . . . risks becoming a beta orbiter . . .” The end game is critical. As soon she as finds her new sucker (and see Rollo’s comments about BPD’s cuckolding their marks. She will find another mark); NO contact! And “no” means NO. If you’re lucky, a BPD will no contact you, they don’t treat exes as other women… Read more »
Addendum:
But if you’re already in too deep you may have no option but to run for it. That can utterly destroy your life, but at least it leaves you alive to regain your sanity and rebuild it.
Have a go bag.
Have a safe house.
3. . .2. . .1 . . .Go! may be all the time you get to get out.
And then NO.FUCKING.CONTACT.
@Culum Struan
Don’t call me whoever.
Antifragile is excellent. The reviewers that gave it bad reviews couldn’t read. The author has an odd style of rambling and jumping around with thoughts. In a genius kind of way
Definitely great on Stoicism and Game mindset. Like I mentioned, Julian from RSD and I believe Tyler mention it in their videos on mindset.
“And then NO.FUCKING.CONTACT.”
I port all my old phone numbers over to google voice when I change them. The BPD I dated still sends me a happy birthday text every year. A DECADE LATER… LOL. Fucking CREEEEPY… I still would not be surprised if she murdered my family some day. But you know. Live on the edge! Date a BPD!
I was curious and started digging up research on sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS). I wrote like a thousand words steelmanning the position that maybe a lot more mothers are asphyxiating their children than most people would be prepared to expect, but I deleted it because it was super boring to someone not involved in research. So, the Spark Notes: -SIDS really really looks like asphyxiation in about 80% of cases. This is non-controversial; the debate is how the asphyxiation happens. -Theories about babies turning facedown, getting caught in a position they can’t breath, etc. may account for some of… Read more »
Given the right conditions “nurturing” mothers kill their own across the animal kingdom. Some of them even eat them.
@Andy Live on the edge! Date a BPD! Been there, done that. She’s trying to send me the scarf. No really, apparently she knitted me one after I felt I could learn nothing more from bothering with her and ghosted. Wants to send me the shit. I want nothing more to do with her. They’re good Frame practice for a while, then they just become annoying, then straight up dangerous. If you value your life, you stop before dangerous. @Softek You know man, I am not a guy with abundance mentality by any stretch. I can’t find any place where… Read more »
@Camaro @all Here comes a big one, enjoy lol: BTW we call them Cluster-B girls rather than just BPD because there’s a bunch of disorders or whatever involved and generally the nuances of which parts and pieces she has don’t matter much…it’s all a barrel of crazy that guys should run away from lol DISCLAIMER: None of the following is implying in any way that any guy, especially one IN one of these relationships, should attempt to learn how to handle these girls…you can’t learn to tame a lion when it’s already gnawing your leg off. GTFO and stay away… Read more »
@Dragonfly, not for nothing, but your husband’s is exactly the same trite dismissal I’ve come to expect from men with zero understanding of how BPDs work. It’s easy for guys with very limited experience with women, to say nothing of BPD women, to value signal by parroting the same tired “stop thinkin’ with yur dick” trope that’s been around forever. There’s zero insight as to why a guy is literally trapped in that negative emotional feedback loop. They want to come off as being above their sex drives by laying claim to being too smart to “let the little head… Read more »
@SJF – haha. Thank you – I’m downloading it now. I didn’t mind his writing style in his previous books so it should be fine. Incidentally I have seen him speak live and he comes across exactly as self-important and pompous as you’d expect with that writing style, but the content is great.
Reading Rollo’s post and most of the comments here, has made me think in how I unplugged. I really never had a traumatic moment in my life like most commenters here that had horrible marriages, dead bedrooms, divorce raped, BPD girlfriends, etc. I never had a girlfriend with little to no interaction with women, I was mostly a social recluse who barely went out and spent most of his time jacking off everyday to porn. I just saw how fucked up the brony community was when I was into that shit, after that I gravitated to MRA stuff, then I… Read more »
@yareally
WTF, no video links?
“I’m not going to be ignored”
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JS6Gw6NVgRg
“So in the end a LOT of them get bitten hard or get sucked into a BPD situation trying to fix the situation in a “happy wife, happy life” way because of their Blue Pill beliefs.” ya they lose their frame. happens all the time. Brad PItt has the strength to just say ‘fuck off’ to whoever steps outside his reality. naturals can do this…like, if their girlfriend is a BPD slore they can summon up some TBP ‘i guess the devil has her now’ shit as an excuse to X her out of their life….but ya, many of them… Read more »
@Scray: http://therationalmale.com/2012/06/29/the-origin-of-alpha/ The Learned Alpha Roosh has an excellent breakdown of The Myth of the Natural that perfectly encapsulates the learning theory of Alpha. The premise behind this is that Alpha behavior, and consequently facility with women, comes as a set of modeled behaviors based upon trial and error. If I were forced to agree on what a natural is, it would be a man who’s a prodigy of sex—someone who gets laid way above other men with no formal instruction in game. This means he was not exposed to any 12 DVD “Cocky Humor” sets or seminars in a hotel room… Read more »
YaReally et al. The SIDS business is very interesting. Just for the psychology of it. I don’t think anyone will dispute that SOME percentage of it mothers killing their babies in a moment of craziness. And no one will dispute that there are probably some babies who do just naturally die of unknown causes. But we don’t know the breakdown and the “5% are killed by mothers” thing seems like it isn’t a solid figure (like how do you identify them anyway? From what I can tell there’s no medical way to tell the difference). But what really interests me… Read more »
Digireaper – good work for going out and pushing yourself out of your comfort zone. Nights like that happen to all of us, especially at the start (and even later on – just that it becomes less frequent). The main thing is that you keep going out and pushing your comfort zone. Having a wingman (if you can get one) will really help your state. As will having a specific ritual to put you into a good social mood before going out (some music you like or whatever). And especially if you’re solo try to get out of your shell… Read more »
@Culum Yeah, I scanned a bunch of research and it all does sound suspiciously like a bunch of minds desperately trying to not come to an unthinkable conclusion. I doubt SIDS deaths are all murders. But the 5% figure, like I said above, was very poorly thought through and backed up, and yet that’s the number they cite unquestioningly. The one account that tried to account for methodology in finding that number basically assumed that you could measure it by looking at families wherein multiple children died from SIDS. They thought that meant that the parents were more likely to… Read more »
“I don’t think anyone will dispute that SOME percentage of it mothers killing their babies in a moment of craziness.”
I would dispute that it’s craziness, never mind a “moment” of it. I think most of them are quite sane and know exactly what they are doing. Any apparently crazy behaviour isn’t related to the act itself, but to the legal ramifications of it.
“That said, for the sake of the knowledge-base of how human psychology and shit works:”
@YaReally
You should get some sort of lifetime achievement award. lol.
How would you break up with her? Make it her fault? or feed her ego?
@Forge the Sky – not professionally, but I have an amateur’s interest to the extent that I read about stuff like how big pharma companies rig drug trials and drug studies and how they manipulate doctors to prescribe and stuff like that. So I know a bit about it and I agree.
@ Rollo Tomassi “It does help to illustrate the environment’s role in molding a person by limiting or encouraging his behavioral development and ultimately his personality.” It sort of reminds me of that scene from the film “Antz” where they examine every ant larvae after it’s born and decide if it’s a worker or soldier based on their physical size. I think a filtering process like this occurs in society starting early on and later develops into an unspoken, subconscious code of conduct. The FI narrative is thrust onto young boys, or their mothers attempt to impose their will on… Read more »
@Dutchman “Re: the Uber chick… I just wonder, with everything that is known about game, what was the BEST thing the dude could have done to get her to stop acting that way so he didn’t go to jail or some shit when the cops showed up and she made up some crazy story?” Jeremy makes a good point that every option is bad game long term here. But if you just want the bang, hey, you just need to throw her emotions in the right direction. Having a Bad Day pointed out how there was actually quite a bit… Read more »
@digireaper “The Friday, I went to a new disco, so I was very nervous going to a new place. ” props on going OUT!…that’s the first step…congratulations!…that shits hard…and going out alone takes real balls…not kidding on that…it gets easier the more you do it… “That night was a failure. ” NOPE..HUGE success…you might not have even talked to a girl, but just taking action = HUGE success…GREAT JOB!!! “I ended up dancing awkwardly on the dance floor alone like a fool. ” i just want to point out one VERY important thing… you…are…still…ALIVE…lol… “The Saturday my brother-in-law invited me… Read more »
If you are trying to get your N count up and brag about it, it is legit to add +3 for every seriously BPD chick that was clinically diagnosed right?
@rollo
ya a lot of that is outside my paradigm but cool stuff
@SJF
you’d be surprised about how non-BPD chicks become when you have the power to ditch them the second they cross the line.
I personally would not be surprised. Very little surprises me. I had an education that included clinical psychology 30 years ago. I’m a good observer and analyzer and you’d be surprised at how those analytical abilities don’t fade over time. And I also am keenly aware that Frame is not power. I was shocked this last year when I realized that I have employed Law #10 with sublime expertise. I looked around at those that are close to me and affect me. I pretty have near zero unhappy and unlucky people surrounding me. I simply don’t let it happen. (And… Read more »
@Rollo, LOL I don’t think you understand his mindset. He actually surprises me with the things he says in how he would react to some of the things men go through in the manosphere. One time I related a story that BV had posted on my own blog about being with a woman on a first date that behaved awkwardly enough to warrant a reaction. His reaction was SO far off what I even expected (and nothing at all what BV did) – and no it wasn’t a fake bravado, it’s just how he would honestly react. You don’t have… Read more »
@Scray: I don’t have to believe it, I know it. Which is how I know that that is part of what makes them so dangerous and why the men who deal with them for any length of time get their heads fucked up so badly.
Note that Camaro says his has been super duper for about 2 months now.
That scares me. That seems to be about the term of the usual “nice” cycle. If she were living with me, I’d be waiting for her to “go off” any day now.
And you know he is around BPD girls often enough. He sees them calling on their boyfriends/husbands when they’re the one that were beating him and had him locked in the bathroom. He’s arrested them instead of the men at times. So yea… he’s seen them at their worst.
@Drangonfly “You don’t have to have so many “lays” to understand your value and behave accordingly.” You have to be a man not getting laid or getting cut off from sex to understand how little your value really is. Frame is not power. This scenario doesn’t apply to your husband or myself. But ask your husband how he would feel if he was having great sex and it was going to end for the foreseeable future. Would he think “No bid deal”? Propose that to him without telegraphing anything. Ask him and tell us his answer. Or think how your… Read more »
“He’s arrested them instead of the men at times.”
Perhaps he has a kindred empathy for the men? And is thinking rationally within the dictates of law. Why the hell wouldn’t he arrest the woman? Your premise is showing.
Or more precisely, your premise is telling.
SJF – My brother and my husband are at completely different ends of a spectrum in my opinion. My brother looks up to my husband like the red pill father he never had – he’s mentored him because my father failed at that. My brother is making great progress, and I’m so happy for him, but he’s nowhere near where my husband is (and I wouldn’t expect him to be at this point in his life). But he IS getting there, but if he came into contact with a BPD, I’m sure he’d have no idea what he was dealing… Read more »
LOL SJF, he does exactly what needs to be done, and it gives him great satisfaction to arrest the woman when other times officers unjustly arrest the man in those cases. bpd women play like they’re the victims when in reality they’re usually doing physical violence against their partners. But it’s the woman who calls … *lying* and when he gets there and finds the scene to be the opposite of what she says, and finds NO marks on her, or hears the man tell him that she created the marks on herself (which these women actually do) and checks… Read more »
If BPDs worst offense was only ‘physical’ violence it would be a blessing and an easy call for most men. Men will commit suicide for a BPD long before she herself becomes a physical hazard to him.
Again, you have zero frame of reference, please, read:
http://therationalmale.com/2012/01/20/borderline-personality-disorder/
“particularly when you yourself have no options and believe you’ll never do any better than her.” (last line in your article, this is the crux of it)
I’ve read it before, I’ve seen women like this, and I’ve seen men with those women. I have a friend who committed suicide in (what I thought) part of his reaction to his wife’s mental disorder.
Indeed.
He has no first hand experience, and therefore no clue what he’s repeating. The problem is that guys in this situation are thinking with their big heads, that’s the point – everything is a reward to risk equation.
Again, your husband is only value signaling that he’s above being influenced by his sexual nature. Which is of course is a form of sexual qualifying.
You change the subject. Of course the discussion upstream was about BPD. My question is in regard to the value a man holds for himself. His self-esteem. If a man is not getting sexual release is it easy for him to hold his self esteem high? Independent of all the ruinous forces in his life for him? Sure, a man that cannot keep it in his pants for a stretch is not truly disciplined. I’m not talking about discipline. I’m talking about self esteem and self value as man. Is it there as much value and esteem, pound for pound… Read more »
One more and I’m done with you: His response: “Is it really worth it? Eventually that great sex won’t be so great when it’s ruining the rest of your life.” Read that post. Hot crazy porn star sex is only the intermittent behavioral reinforcer. If it were only about sex then every woman would be a BPD. It’s not just about the sex, it is about the mental schema of both the BPD and the man she convinces to play her role and re-identify himself in it. This is exactly why your husband’s programmed aphorisms are fuck-all useless to a… Read more »
@Rollo: “This is exactly why your husband’s programmed aphorisms are fuck-all useless to a guy in Softek’s circumstances. He has no frame of reference.”
Somehow, but not surprisingly, this is not hitting home for dragonfly….
The way of the Superior Man by David Deida. Offers some insight regarding the comments in this thread.
“The way of the Superior Man by David Deida”.
Never heard of that one. What’s it about? And how does it offer insights into this thread?
@Dragonfly You really don’t get it. You’ve never dated one of these chicks. I’ve dated two. One recently, one my first year of college that was my first lay. I didn’t intend to even have sex with her. I wasn’t thinking with my dick at all. I tried to walk away that night, but she made it clear she would kill herself if I did. Being 18 at the time I believed it would be my fault if she did and capitulated. The relationship was a fucking nightmare. The recent one managed to find a couple small holes in my… Read more »
@Avid – A little close to the bone for you, eh? And in “masculine” Spartan culture, boys in training were encouraged to have homosexual relationships with their mentor/trainers, lol. Still role models for you? It was thought to create loyalty and enhance the bond between them. Red Pill is understanding that women live in a conflict wrt to their sexual urges while men don’t. You see, women are not designed to torture you, they are just following their programming. They are also programmed to not give a shit about your suffering, no evolutionary advantage in that. Men cling to their… Read more »
@ Rollo http://therationalmale.com/2012/06/21/case-study-the-crazy/ That post seemed to bridge the gap a bit between BPD and a ‘normal’ relationship. It does seem like BPD is just an extreme version of how women normally are, although the core of it is different. That’s why BPD is a personality disorder. But I’ve never been in a relationship, so have no frame of reference for what’s normal and what’s not. @ YaReally I did tell her directly to shut the fuck up once when she was going off on me and being completely abusive. I just looked her dead in the eye and told… Read more »
While we’re on the subject of BPD chicks, I’d just like to mention there is a big difference between them and regular girls that just have their bitch shield up. I had what was almost a perfect comparison study between two girls I worked with. Both were roughly the same age, average looking, tall and skinny, and thought they were more attractive than they actually were. The first one we’ll call Krissy. She was very bitchy and bossy when I first met her, but once I teased her a bit she got a lot nicer. From then on, she’d still… Read more »
I’ve decided to go ahead with the divorce. What I’m going to do is on Monday I’m going to go down and get the paperwork and then sign up for a free class at the family law facilitator to help me fill out the forms. It should go pretty easily considering the length of time we’ve been married and the fact that we have no kids and no real property between us. And as far as my red pill awakening I’ve decided that instead of coming off of it slowly in order to minimize the shock of transitioning from blue… Read more »
Womankind is programmed by nature with hypergamy. Hypergamy operates mostly automatically via hindbrain and its intents are covertly disguised so mankind will be non the wiser until womankind is able to capitalize upon mankinds provisions and carnal seed. Womankind is assisted by natural programming of mankind’s romantic idealistic idiocy. Enter Rollo Tomassi. The messiah of sexual gender dynamics is born unto us! Behold the revelation of ubiquitous enlightenment for all men. All can now rejoice where only few could before! The dots have been connected! Eureka! Blue pill idealism can now be realized within an alpha frame. The correct context… Read more »
On being a natural. I have to concur with Rollo’s view on how we all develop our own game, for better or worse. I never thought of myself as a natural until someone on this board suggested I was one. Fyi, I never thought of myself as alpha until I brought up the Red Pill to 3 different male friends and they all told me, “Yeah, your definitely alpha.” I literally had no idea – and now I realize this is part of being a natural. I had an N of about 100 before I got here (stopped counting at… Read more »
@Camaro. Dude, if I were in your shoes I couldnt sleep. What you described-her waiting oitside the bathroom- is chilling. As in ‘Psycho’. If you were my friend I’d be very worried for you.
Call a friend. Have a witness. Do whatever it takes to execute your plan. Get The Fuck Out.
Best of luck. Hang in. Be strong. Take care of number #1. Down the road you’ll be balls deep in some.hot broad.and this will be.a bad memory.
@NBTM: what’s your problem dude?
Here is my advice. I know you didn’t ask for it, so don’t tell me, I don’t give a shit. 1. Don’t get fat. 2. If you are at all fat, get unfat. 3. Get some strenuous exercise at least once a week. 4. Stay active. The older you get, the more difference it makes. 5. Drink a gallon of water a day. 6. Eat lots of vegetables and plenty of protein. 7. Jack off or fuck regularly but not compulsively. 8. Get 7 hours of sleep a night. 9. Laugh at yourself at least as much as you laugh… Read more »
@Camaro – You’ve said the magic words – you don’t feel safe. These kinds of instincts are rarely wrong. Also know that you probably are already telegraphing a different vibe to her right now as you make these decisions and given her previous violence and what you describe, I’m like, “Why wait?” Get the fuck out tonight. Go sleep on a friend’s couch – whatever. Who knows what she’ll do if she thinks you are leaving? Talking about knives, creepy staring at the bathroom door while you are in it? She’s batshit dude, run – NOW!
@Rollo
Considered adding full archive links, maybe on sidebar, rather than just “Best of Year x?”
There’s hidden gems for both old and new readers.
@Camaro You keep recognizing warning signals, that’s good. It also means it’s time to get out. You would not have mentioned the creepy situation with her standing outside while you were on the crapper unless you knew it was messed up, as well as dangerous. I’ve seen some creepy and fucked up shit in my life. A previous incarnation of my career was working in the media. You hang at the cop shop, courthouse and run out to breaking news enough and you witness first hand raw crazy. I kinda got a bit creeped by what you wrote. It’s one… Read more »
@ scribblerg Thanks for the support. This is basically the only place I have left to go for advice/clarity on any of this stuff. tl;dr = I’m a doormat. I have the Doormat Operating System installed in my head. That’s the main problem in my life. I don’t know where I learned it or where I picked it up. But that’s what’s in there. I can remember a million examples of this programming all the way back from childhood. Self-sacrificing, self-defeating, ultimately self-destructing. And until I address that and CHANGE, well….I could climb to the highest mountain in the entire… Read more »
Hey Not Born This Morning, What the fuck dude, who shit in your Wheaties this morning? Why the dickhead attitude? It’s one thing to have a reasonable argument with Rollo or anybody on this site. But you’re being a complete disrespectful moronic asswipe. Why do I say that? Because I respect the totality of what this place is and why it exists. I challenge you to have a tenth of one percent of the insight into gender dynamics as well as the fucking patience it takes to repeat yourself over and over for years to the men that arrive here… Read more »
Here here!! Nicely put Roused!
Holy fuck watching Uber girl brought back some memories for me. Back in Uni I was buying into the Bluepill lie big time and had tried to be captain save-a-ho by trying to domesticate one of those. Really bad idea. she was fucking damaged, sure enough a demon in bed, night one went down starting at the uni-bar and I pulled her in a matter of minutes, had her home and fucking my doors off in literally minutes. In a few weeks she was living with me. Sure enough over time she tried to jam a wedge between me and… Read more »
@Camaro, I just went back and read all your posts. RUN!!! is all I can say. Ok, actually have your jump bag packed and ready at the office or something, not at home. Stay cool, try to not to show too much behaviour that is different then how things have been for the past number of months so you don’t tip your hand. Prep your escape and GTFO in one single shot for your sake. Absolutely like the movie HEAT, you gotta be ready to drop everything and walk hard with no “easing out”. Chicks like this will “hoover” you.… Read more »
PS Camero. When I split with my number one crazy I had to deal with the hard truth that she was probably fucking one of my best friends and a bunch of people knew it. I realized that obviously he was no friend and likely a bunch of people around me knew it too and for whatever reason said nothing, so not friends either. Part of going into monk mode was to deal with that sad reality as well. It was kind of lonely but it felt good to be just me on my own in many ways. She destroyed… Read more »
might post this in Rollo’s next post – but this is now out there in the MSM
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relationships/sex/game-over-the-sad-demise-of-the-pickup-artist/news-story/7e8f9ea1988045261484a40c53618afa
@Scribblerg It does not fight in the face of evidence. The in group preference that you are referring to is the idea of the female collective whereas I am talking specifically about gangs (not gangsta gangs – but groups of men with a common identity). The idea that men associate themselves in groups large or small groups with a certain identity (think of groups of male friends all the way to political parties) and they have within them rules that people obey by. While woman would relate to a group of women because of pussy. Men need common ‘ideals’ to… Read more »