What I’m about to detail here will be a revolutionary act; I’m going to give men some prescriptive advice on how I believe they should go about raising their children from a Red Pill perspective. As most of my readers know I do my best to provide observations and connect dots, from there I expect men (and women) to form their own takes on what I’m seeing and either challenge those observations or develop some actionable practice that best suits their own circumstances.
I’ll be breaking that protocol here, but the premise still applies; what I think might be universally applicable to raising and mentoring the next generation may need to be modified for what your experience and circumstances dictate.
That said, the very idea that I would inform or instruct men (and by association women) on how I think a healthier, more durable generation of men might be developed in a Red Pill awareness is tantamount to being a hate crime today. My suggesting that boys and girls would benefit greatly from a Red Pill aware father is a frightening, seditionary act in a feminine-primary social order.
As things stand on a societal level now, just the mention of Red Pill truths in casual conversation will engender either ridicule or hostility. As Red Pill awareness spreads it will be considered subversive, particularly in a social order founded on the Feminine Imperative and feminine-primary social prioritization.
I don’t have too much positive to say about Roosh these days, but one thing I had to agree with was his recent assessment of how it’s necessary for men to meet in secret gatherings and maintain (as best as possible) a state of constant anonymity if they wish to discuss anything counter to feminine-primary social doctrine. Main stream media in feminine-primary society will characterize this need for anonymity as indicative of cowardice or a lack of conviction; bitter men just contenting themselves in their private anger and poisoning the minds of whomever will listen to them.
They need this characterization for now because men have something to lose. They fear having their bread taken away from them – the same bread that feminine-primary society expects men to provide the very women who would use it to extort a desired complacency from men. Cowardice is rooted in the fear of having something to lose. Once men become largely indifferent to that bread being forthcoming, that’s either when they snap, or that’s when they start a revolution.
ScribblerG (a.k.a. Glenn) had a good reminder for men in the last thread:
Being a dad isn’t all that great in many ways these days. At best it’s mostly thankless, but for most men they are fathering into a culture that denigrates them, laughs at them and is hagiographic of motherhood. If you think this won’t effect how your children see you as a father, you are fucking kidding yourself.
I used to ride the train back and forth to the city – leaving my home at 6:30 in the morning and returning at 7:30 or later, wondering if my daughter would ever realize all I sacrificed to provide for her and her mom? I’d wonder if she’d ever get that I sacrificed being as close to her as her mother is to her for her wellbeing? That her closeness with her mom as a result of having a stay at home mom until she was 5 was a consequence of my efforts, not her Mom’s?
Guess what – nobody wants to hear it. Nobody gives a shit what sacrifices you make to be a good father and provider – it’s all about Mom. It’s all about the kids. Dad’s are at best seen as second best Moms most of the time. And even when we are “in charge”, we can be dismissed as superfluous in myriad ways.
Many men adapt by becoming second mothers and wives in the household – and the entire culture encourages this. Try being a traditional male at parent teacher night or at the pre-school or even the Boy Scout troop…Fatherhood and a family is not what it once was either. Trust me, learn from my experience. Your kids will very likely not appreciate all you’ve done for them.
Of course, I excuse all the fundo-christian-demi-god-uber-alpha-ripped-11 inch cock-men of steel™ here from this commentary. For you guys, it’s 1956 and your life is like Wally and the Beav…
Just like men subscribe to two sets of books – old and new social rule sets that contradict the other – I think our ideas of marriage fall into this same contradiction. When marriage was a social contract and not so much a legal one involving the state, the old set of books applied well to that institution. This old set of rules about marriage and what men could expect from that largely socially-enforced institution worked well and in a complementary paradigm. From the Little House on the Prairie days up to the post-war era, the first set of books worked well with regard to marriage and fatherhood.
After the sexual revolution, the second set of books took social preeminence. Optimizing Hypergamy and all of the social and legal paradigms that make it the foundation of our present social order took priority. Yet, both men and women still cling to the old order, the first set of rules when it comes to a man’s role as a husband and a father, and simultaneously expect him to adopt and promote the feminine-primary interests of the new feminine-primary order.
Fathers are expected to follow the edicts of conventional masculinity with regards to their provisioning for a family, but are also expected to adopt, embrace and internalize their popularized role of being superfluous, ridiculous or even angry and abusively resistant to the second set of rules.
In other words, the expectation is that he should be happy in his sacrificial role of provider, happy in his lack of appreciation for it or his presence, and happy to have the ‘village’ of society raise his children into the next crop of confused, frustrated adults while he’s doing it. He should be happy in his presence being devalued, but be held responsible for his lack of presence that his sacrifices demands.
Oh, and he should also feel a sense of smug pride when he see another man being pilloried for the same lack of his superfluous presence in his family’s life.
Raising Kids
I’m sure all of this sounds like a bridge too far for most men. Yes, the prospect of becoming a father is depressing, and I can see how these truths would make the average man despondent about becoming a new parent. However, I feel it’s incumbent upon me that I’m honest with men about what they’re up against before I advocate how to be a Red Pill aware father.
You will never be appreciated for your sacrifices, and certainly not while you’re making them. Your presence is only as superfluous as you allow it to be. While you will never be appreciated for it in any measurable sense, you will be liable for it, so my advice is to make the most of it in a Red Pill respect. Your reward, your motivation, for being a Red Pill parent and a positively masculine example in your kids’ lives needs to come from inside yourself because it will never be rewarded by a feminine-primary social order. If you don’t think you will ever find being a parent intrinsically rewarding, get a vasectomy now because it will never be extrinsically rewarding.
Understand now, the Feminine Imperative wants you to be despondent about your role.
Understand this, your presence, your influence, will only be as valuable or as appreciated as you are willing to make it to yourself. Your Red Pill aware influence in your kids’ lives needs to matter to you first, because it will never be appreciated in your time, and in fact will be actively, hostilely, be resisted by a world saturated in feminine-primacy.
Being a mother and birthing a child is a constantly lauded position today. By virtue of being a mother, women are rewarded and respected in society. Men must add fatherhood to their burden of performance just to avoid the societal default of being vilified.
The Feminine Imperative wants you to give up and allow the ‘village’ to raise your sons and daughters to perpetuate the cycle of the second set of rules. It wants you to feel superfluous; the Feminine Imperative’s maintenance relies on you feeling worthless. The reason men commit suicide at four times the rate of women is due exactly to this sense of male-worthlessness cultivated by the Feminine Imperative.
In Preventive Medicine I detail part of our present feminine-primary conditioning and how the imperative raises boys to be Betas and girls to be caricatures of Strong Independent Women®. Part of this was based on the essay Teach Your Children Well and the early ages at which this begins. The first, most primary truth you need to accept as a father is that if you don’t teach your children Red Pill truths there is an entire western(izing) world that is already established to raise them in your absence.
‘The Village’ will raise your kids if you don’t. You will be resisted, you will be ridiculed, you will be accused of every thought-crime to the point of being dragged away to jail in your imparting Red Pill awareness (in the future I expect it to be equated with child abuse). The Village will teach your boys from the most impressionable ages (5 years old) to loath their maleness, to feel shame for being less perfect than girls and to want to remake their gender-identity more like girls.
The Village will raise your daughters to perpetuate the same cycle that devalues conventional masculinity, the same cycle that considers men’s presence as superfluous and their sacrifices as granted expectations. It will raise your daughters to over-inflate their sense of worth with unearned confidence at the expense of boys as their foils. It will teach them to openly embrace Hypergamy as their highest authority and to disrespect anything resembling masculinity as more than some silly anachronism.
The good news is that for all of these efforts in social engineering, the Feminine Imperative is still confounded by basic biology and the psychological firmware evolved into us over millennia. That basic root reality is your greatest advantage as a father.
Raising Boys
I’m often asked when I believe would be the best time to introduce a boy to the Red Pill. A lot of guys with teenage sons want to hand them a copy of The Rational Male before they hit 18, or maybe when they’re 15, some even say 12 is really a good time. While it’s flattering for me to hear men tell me how they gave their teenage sons a copy of my book, I have to think that this is too late.
I’ve been a father to a teenage daughter for a while now and in my 20’s I was a mentor (big brother figure) to a young man I watched grow from a 10 year old boy to a 30’s man today. One thing I’ve learned from dealing with kids as I have is that the Feminine Imperative conditions children from the moment they can understand what’s playing on a TV or in a movie. By the time that kid is 10 they already have the ideological conditioning that came from a decade of meme’s and messaging taught to them by schools, Disney, Nickelodeon, popular music, feminine-primary parenting from their friends parents, even your own extended family members.
By the time that kid is 10 they’ve already internalized the stereotypes and social conditioning of the Blue Pill and they will start parroting these memes and behaving and believing in accordance with that conditioning. By the time they are in their tweens and beginning to socially interact with the opposite sex, the Blue Pill feminine-primary conditioning will be evident to any man with a Red Pill lens to hear and see it. That Blue Pill internalized ideology will seem natural and logical to them even though they couldn’t tell you how they came to their formative beliefs.
The time to start exemplifying Red Pill awareness in a parental capacity is before you even have kids. As I detailed in the first of these posts, an internalized Game that results from strong Red Pill awareness and a positive, dominant Frame control are imperative before you even consider monogamy. That Frame becomes the foundation for your parenting when your children come along.
I realize this isn’t exactly helpful for men who came to Red Pill awareness after their kids were in their teens, but it needs to be addressed for men considering becoming a father. Ideally you want to impart that same Red Pill awareness during a boy’s formative years. Children completely lack the capacity for abstract thought until their brains fully form and they learn to develop it. The age of 5 is the time when kids are most impressionable and learn the most, but they do so by watching behavior. So it’s imperative for a Red Pill father to demonstrate positive, conventional masculinity during these years.
Include your son in male-space, where only men are allowed to participate. Even if all he does is sit and play, it’s important for him to understand male tribalism. Eventually, as he gets older, he’ll feel more a part of that collective. In a feminine-primary world that is bent on his devaluation as a male human it’s important for him to feel valued in male-space and to institute his own male-space as he gets older.
Within this male-space your son needs to learn about his eventual burden of performance.I’d also advise you institute some kind of rite of passage for him from being a boy to being a man. There needs to be a delineation point at which his manhood is marked. This is important because it not only teaches him to value his masculinity, but also to accept the responsibilities of his burden of performance.
Most Beta men are uncomfortable even calling themselves ‘men’, so the earlier a kid understands this the better he is in accepting his manhood. The Feminine Imperative is all too ready to teach him his masculinity is a mask he wears; something he puts on and not the ‘real’ him. He needs to proudly reject this notion that his masculinity is a show.
He needs to learn that men and women are different and only deserving of earned respect, not a default respect granted to the female sex. Eventually he needs to learn to accept his own dominance and mastery in a world that will tell him his sex is a scourge on society.
Your presence in his life is an absolute necessity if you are to thwart the efforts of fem-centrism. I was asked about Red Pill fathering in my last Christian McQueen interview and my first inclination was to say do things with your son. Even if that’s playing chess, being the man, his model for masculinity is vitally important and to impart this to him you need to have a mutual purpose. As I’ve written before, women talk, men do. Men get together socially with a purpose, an action, a hobby, a sport, a creative endeavor, etc. and then they communicate while working towards that purpose.
Your son must learn this from a very early age, particularly when he’s likely to be forced into feminine-primary social structures and conditioned to communicate like girls do in school as well as in popular media. One of the tragedies of our age is a generation of Blue Pill men raising their sons to adopt feminine-primary communication preferences because they themselves had no experience with conventional masculinity. They can’t teach what they don’t understand.
Demonstrate, do not explicate is true of dealing with women, but it is also an imperative of Red Pill parenting. Your son (and daughter) needs to see his mother’s deference to your dominant Frame and beneficent authority. He needs to understand on a rudimentary level that his mother responds to your positively masculine Frame. Again this is imperative since your kids will see a much different narrative being displayed in popular culture and their schooling.
Show him how a man presents himself, how a man reacts to a threat, how a man commands a dog, how a man interacts with, and helps, other men he values. Do not think that you’ll start teaching him Red Pill awareness when he’s old enough to understand it. By then it’s too late, he’s resistant to it and thinks his Beta Game is more appropriate. Your son will follow your lead, but that must start from day one, not age 12. I have a good friend now who’s 16 year old son is literally following the same path his Beta father; he’s moved in with his estranged ex wife because he was closer to his ONEitis girlfriend. Now she’s bailed on him and he’s stuck with his neurotic mother.
The consequences of a Blue Pill conditioned mindset also start early. I’ve seen 10 year old boys despondent over not having a girlfriend. I’ve counseled a girl who’s former teenage boyfriend stabbed and killed her new boyfriend 32 times because she was his ONE. They get ONEitis because they are taught to be predisposed to it.
As your son moves into his teenage years that connection you began in his formative years should strengthen. You can begin to introduce him to Red Pill awareness, but in all likelihood you’ll notice him using his own Red Pill lens when it comes to dealing with girls. His grasping the fundaments of women’s dualistic sexual strategy, Hypergamy and how this will be used against him in the future is something imperative that he learns later.
This is the time to reinforce that Red Pill sensitivity and capitalize on his own awareness by introducing him to Red Pill ideas he wasn’t aware of. Bluntly, overtly declaring Red Pill truths might make sense to you, but plucking out bits of his own Red Pill observations and expanding on them in his teen years will probably be received better and more naturally.
One thing I know about teenage boys and girls is that if you try to tell them something profound they roll their eyes and blow you off, but if you wait for the right moment to let them come to that thing you want them to learn on their own then they’re receptive to it. Your demonstrating Red Pill awareness doesn’t stop when they’re teens.
Raising Girls
Much of what I’ve outlined for raising boys would cross over into raising a daughter, however there are some differences in approach. Exemplifying a Red Pill ideal, and demonstrations of positive, dominantly masculine Frame control are still the highest priority, but more so is the modeled behavior of the girl’s mother toward you and that Frame. If your wife resists, ridicules or mocks your Frame, this is the lesson your daughter will be taught about masculinity. You must model her perceptions of masculinity while your wife models the aspects of femininity – for better or worse.
A lot of how you approach raising a daughter can be based on your Red Pill understanding of how to deal with women, and based on much of the same basic gender-complementary foundations. The same Game principles you would use with women are actually founded on behavior sets that little girls learn and enjoy while they’re growing up. Amused Mastery is a prime example of this.
You will notice that root level Hypergamy manifests itself in girls at a very young age. In Warren Farrell’s book, Why Men Are The Way They Are he notes that girls as young as 7 already have a a definition of the (celebrity) “boys they’d like to kiss and the boys they’d like to marry.” No doubt girls’ acculturation influences their preferences, but the Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks archetypes are part of their mental firmware.
As a father, your primary role will be one of modeling the provider security seeking aspect of the Hypergamous equation. While that comfort and control is necessary it tends to be a trap for most Betas. The challenge most Beta fathers fail at is embracing and owning the very necessary Alpha / Dominant role that makes up the other side of that equation.
The challenge is exemplifying Amused Mastery with your daughter, but in such a way that it balances Alpha dominance and control with rapport, security and comfort. In my post Myth of the Good Guy I make the case that adult women don’t really look for this balance in the same man. Alphas are for fucking, Betas are for long term security, and men who think they can embody both are neither sought after nor really believable. The root of this AF/BB mental separation of Hypergamous purpose-specific men can be traced back to the impression of masculinity that woman’s father set for her in her formative years.
Lean too far toward Alpha dominance and you become the asshole abuser who domineered poor mom while she was growing up. Lean too far to the Beta, permissive, passive and feminine side of the spectrum and the future men in her life will be colored by your deferring to the feminine as authority – thus placing her in the role of having to create the security she never expects men to have a real command of.
The challenge of raising a boy is modeling and exemplifying the positive, dominant masculine role you want him to boldly embrace in spite of the same fem-centric world arrayed against yourself. The challenge of raising a girl is embodying the dominant masculine man you will eventually be proud to call your son in law. Your daughter needs to be able to identify that guy by comparing him to the masculine role you set for her.
Most contemporary men (that is to say 80%+ Beta men) are very uncomfortable in asserting dominance with their daughters for fear of being perceived as misogynists according to their feminine-centric acculturation. The zeitgeist of this era’s approach to fathers parenting girls is one of walking on eggshells around their little princesses. The fear is one of avoiding instilling a crushing of their independence or limiting their future opportunities by being more permissive with girls. The gender-correct hope is that in doing so they’ll all go on to be the future doctors and scientists society needs, but that permissiveness and coddling does them no favors in the long run.
If you were uncomfortable experimenting with Red Pill concepts while you were single, you’ll be even more so in raising a daughter. The most important impression you need to leave her with is that men and women are different, but complementary to the other. She needs to know that your masculine dominance is beneficial to both her and her mother, and your personal mastery of you conditions and environment as an aid to her and the family. She needs to understand that girls and women are, sometimes, excluded from male-spaces, particularly if you also have a son. In fact it’s boon if you have a son to teach while you bring up a daughter as she’ll see his upbringing as a model for positive masculinity.
@Höllenhund: What purpose does it have to discuss who’s fault it is? If you could objectively proof, it’s women’s fault, what next? Is there some court where you could sue “all womenkind” to do better? Will the government come to help and make better women? No. And if they say it’s the men’s fault, who cares? Neither can women sue “all the man” to become “good men”. Asking for who is to blame is a game for stupids. Blame is only relevant for one’s own assessment of self-worth. It’s justifying why you are the good one, which is actually following… Read more »
I was about to say the same. I’m less inclined to find “fault” or place blame than I am to look at what’s contributed to the conditions of men and women. If in that process there’s a deliberate maliciousness involved, then I may be convinced that blame is due. However, more often than not what we want to attribute to blame is often the result of ignorance. So, are the men of DeadBedrooms at fault for their sexless marriages? Hard to say in a subjective sense, but what almost all have been subject of is an ignorance of the conditioning… Read more »
@YaReally Yet when a guy is good-looking or rich we all just assume he won’t have those same internal hangups that we did…as if he’s just magically born with an “I FUCK EVERYTHING RARRRR!!” gene and wasn’t subject to the same bullshit social conditioning the rest of us were. I think women are especially guilty of this. Their projection knows no bounds. All they know is getting sex relatively easily, so when they see a good-looking/rich dude they often presume that guy gets a lot of tail. There is no comprehension in their pretty heads of innate male sacrifice or… Read more »
On Roosh: RSDMax just put up his “origin story”. He started gaming in Washington DC, the city that Roosh and his crew complain about NON-STOP as being the worst and having the worst bitchy femincunt lizard bitches etc etc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQWJ7Xo1t_E And yet, Max didn’t run into these same problems. I wonder why. You know how many conversations about feminism I’ve had with girls in the bar in my LIFE? Literally one, and it was hilarious and I almost fucked one of the girls in the group lol Because they don’t bring that shit up if you’re not approaching them with… Read more »
This is just an incredibly well-done set of posts on red pill parenting.
Magnifique, Rollo.
@Deti thanks, it’s stories like this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11939909/sexist-words-school-playground-report.html
that tell me Red Pill parenting will be considered a hate crime soon.
@Jeremy “I think women are especially guilty of this. Their projection knows no bounds. All they know is getting sex relatively easily, so when they see a good-looking/rich dude they often presume that guy gets a lot of tail.” Solipsism in action. Solipsism and Hypergamy are the two major things that I’m grateful to Rollo for explaining. HUGE missing puzzle pieces that clear up so much shit. “There is no comprehension in their pretty heads of innate male sacrifice or the uniquely male condition of having to perform, so they presume sexuality comes easily to men as it does to… Read more »
I mean, the REASON some guy is a 30yo virgin is because he’s been allowed to blame everything else in the world for his problems and avoid taking action and personal responsibility and doing what he can to improve in that area of his life. He doesn’t need me to offer him that too, everyone else will. Yeah. 30-year-old male virgins routinely blame the entire world for their condition, and the reason is that everyone, society in general, allows them to blame everyone beside themselves. Seems legit. I’m sure it happens all the time! That must be the case, right?… Read more »
The blame is on the “be yourself”.
The “Be yourself” scheme ,stripped men from the game.
Game for men was power, and it had to be taken by FI.
“When she came out, I politely excused myself and walked out.” been reading about this lately as I have a similar issue from j ronson interviewing j lehrer (on carelessness) jl: “I wasn’t turning anything down” jr: “What would have been wrong with turning things down?” jl: “It was some toxic mixture of insecurity and ambition” “I always felt like a fad.” “So I had to act while I could” the opposite of abundance mentality and from s dubner on the best advice he got (while fishing at 14) dubner: “and lo and behold, I finally caught a fish”. “It… Read more »
And now with the html code fixed: I mean, the REASON some guy is a 30yo virgin is because he’s been allowed to blame everything else in the world for his problems and avoid taking action and personal responsibility and doing what he can to improve in that area of his life. He doesn’t need me to offer him that too, everyone else will. Yeah. 30-year-old male virgins routinely blame the entire world for their condition, and the reason is that everyone, society in general, allows them to blame everyone beside themselves. Seems legit. I’m sure it happens all the… Read more »
Yep.
What’re you gonna do about it?
@hollenhund
“It’s not like men are routinely told in public discourse in no uncertain terms that whatever problems they have are solely their own fault, or that those aren’t actually real problems at all. Right?”
I mean he’s allowed to by the people he seeks refuge/help from ie – shitty negative communities of like-minded guys like yourself who encourage his victim-complex instead of helping him actually get out of the negativity spiral.
@Hollen, you are at the stage of understanding YaReally’s comments like Neo was when he learned that he was just a battery for the Matrix. I was the same when I found Heartiste, and YaReally. I thought I was just reading a bunch of “asshole tactics used by pick-up artists to bang unworthy sluts.” So I ejected for about a month, but something inside me willed me back to read more, and I’m glad I did because game helps with troubled marriages, pickup, and social interactions at work. I see things so clearly now, and I see a lifetime of… Read more »
@hoellenhund2 It’s not like men are routinely told in public discourse in no uncertain terms that whatever problems they have are solely their own fault, or that those aren’t actually real problems at all. Right? That’s just a cheap fallacy there. You can’t just shift the blame and claim rational victory. My point to YaReally and you was that blaming everyone/everything else rather than taking an honest and hard-look at the self is a standard condition among human beings, not just men, but women too. Introverts, or socially retarded guys generally experience social embarrassment trying to learn the things they… Read more »
@Rollo “…but I’d say most of the DeadBedroomers are where they are because they made some very grave uneducated decisions based on bad information or conditioned beliefs about the social rules they and women would be mutually using.” So much this. I’ve never experienced the deadbed phenomenon, even when I slipped into Blue Pilled hell in my first marriage. Sex was never allowed to become stagnant and routine and I always telegraphed sex constantly outside of the bedroom so that it would remain hot inside the bedroom. But I’ve watched untold numbers of friends and family slip into morgue-like bedrooms… Read more »
“That’s why women are always talking about the rich white CEO patriarchy, they only see the rich CEO guys, they don’t register the plumber or the garbage man in their world view.” bullshit. game has nothing to do with income level or status and the vast majority of your stuff confirms this. a plumber or garbage can pull super hot babes with the right frame. and lots of times the blue collar guys have way higher T than the beta follow the rules their whole lives ceos who end up beta providers while their wives fuck the plumber during the… Read more »
Because guys like you who are looking to create a victim narrative will irrationally blow it out of proportion and miss the point instead of intelligently discussing it “Victim narrative”, lol. Gotta love that word. It needs to have its place next to “wrong headspace”, “negative mindset”, “false consciousness” and other jewels of sophistry inspired by idiotic New Age tenets and junk science. Yeah, pointing out the easily identifiable fact that false rape accusations do happen, result in real victimhood, and are caused by no one but the people who decide to file them, is “creating a victim narrative”. After… Read more »
one of the most negative guys who teaches pick-up with the most bleak depressing negative view of interacting with women
You mean that guy who has now declared with absolute certainty that his ideology of “Neomasculinity” is the one correct path to take, the only hope left for the revival of Western civilization, and that anyone in the ‘sphere who rejects him is just, you know, a negative shithead with the wrong mindset?
Roosh is a marketeer, not a visionary.
@hoellenhund2
It behooves you when you accuse others of sophistry to avoid using irony as a method of arguing.
@fleezer “women don’t give a shit what your job is… ” lol I know. I’m talking about when women are picturing the world, like when they’re writing their retarded feminist blog posts or you ask them about what kind of men they’re attracted to or they compare themselves to men, they’re comparing themselves to the rich CEO dude not the plumber. @hollenhund “pointing out the easily identifiable fact that false rape accusations do happen, result in real victimhood, and are caused by no one but the people who decide to file them, is “creating a victim narrative”” Again these can… Read more »
@YaReally, sorry man, hate to do this to you, but I have found some infield video of why you’re not entirely correct about the importance of looks:
; )
@Rollo
If in that process there’s a deliberate maliciousness involved, then I may be convinced that blame is due. However, more often than not what we want to attribute to blame is often the result of ignorance.
Never attribute to malice that which you can attribute to stupidity.
@Yareally
“shitty negative communities of like-minded guys like yourself who encourage his victim-complex instead of helping him actually get out of the negativity spiral.”
It’s coming here where actuall people I’ve mostly never meant call me out of my bullshit and lame excuses and allow me to learn about my ignorance and self rigthious habits and old white knighting beliefs.
I’ve never had that in person as a human growing up in suburban society.
@Rollo : about that Telegraph article on “sexist” language at schools – I wasn’t particularly bullied at school but I was a bit, and maybe that colours my perspective but I think I disagree a bit with you on this topic. I don’t think you are against anti-bullying measures in general, so can you perhaps clarify more which types of measure you think are repressing freedom and which ones are positive? Some (male) kids will be physically or mentally vulnerable compared to others. I think they should be protected by school / teachers and that won’t necessarily mean they will… Read more »
@IAS School students are no longer allowed to use sexist language to bait each other in the playground, such as “man up” and “go make me a sandwich”, and head teachers are being urged to ensure that sexist language is taken as seriously as racist language. […] In response, some schools are creating volunteer squads of girls to police sexist attitudes and report back to teachers. Schools are also being asked by the report to appoint senior teachers as ‘gender champions’, appointing them with the task of encouraging more girls to take traditionally ‘male’ subjects such as economics, computer science… Read more »
sorry man, hate to do this to you, but I have found some infield video of why you’re not entirely correct about the importance of looks
here we go again, asking women instead of watching what they do
hey fish, what hooks should I use to catch you?
heh, well, you can watch what they do in the video.
@hoellenhund:
It doesn’t matter why you have grown so weak that you can only curl 5 lbs. for 10. Maybe somebody strapped you to the bed, or maybe you were just too damned lazy to move. It’s irrelevant. What matters is that you can tape a one ounce tire weight or washer to the dumbbell and do something about it.
And for goodness sake, stop with the “always” and “solely” fallacy. 99 44/100% purity is good enough even for Ivory.
@Rollo I was wondering when someone would post the video where the super unstifled confident self-amused guy peacocking hardcore gets more positive attention than the normal guy in a scenario where girls are recorded on camera giving a self-survey as proof that looks matter lol Better tell the girl at the start of this vid that she shouldn’t be into Tyler: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeZ_Gu2Olwc Or the chick at 7:05 in this video that she should go with the tall much better looking buff dudes that try to take Tyler’s girl: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o8k430ufLA&t=7m5s Or any of the infield footage I can post of any… Read more »
@YaReally, I was razzing you, but… You can post 50 videos of guys with good looks getting girls, but as long as there are vids of guys without looks getting girls, especially getting them OVER guys with looks, there’s a flaw in your belief system that you aren’t offering explanations for. If that’s so then the reverse would also be true, yes? Therefore I would suggest that both Looks and Game are of at least some importance in arousal and attraction. And not for nothing, but you keep going back to the Forever Alone Misc’ers on Body Building.com well. Do… Read more »
@Jeremy
“Heh, I just remembered this one time, I swear this is probably the most in-the-moment confusing and humiliating beta experience of my life. Though I laugh at it now for the inhumanly bizarre thinking in my head at the time… if I had any PUA friends back then they would have never let me live it down.”
Oh, and you think I’m gonna let you live it down? 😉
(yes I will cause I’ve been in a similar circumstance. Twice, as it happens. Third time was the charm)
@Yareally
What Forge just posted to Jeremy is the man conversations I enjoy learning from I can’t or didn’t notice that in person in my environment growing up.
It’s a tribal way to keep people who change and grow in check with each other.
It’s heathy masculinity to me.
Oh, hey, I’ve got an idea, why don’t the girls give offenders (who will be boys to a man) red feathers?
heh, well, you can watch what they do in the video
I think you mean you can’t watch what they don’t do in the video.
In the video they ask the woman what they want in a few ways, where’s the part where they attempt to hook up?
@redlight “here we go again, asking women instead of watching what they do. hey fish, what hooks should I use to catch you?” lol that’s the part that’s funny to me. Hey Rollo, I just found evidence that your whole Red Pill theory is wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woI_UsUasY4 According to this highly scientifically accurate interview with women, since that’s the standard of evidence for some reason now, men should buy women drinks, not use cheesy pickup lines, “ask me hey how ya doing and ask how I am”, and just be yourself instead of trying to pick someone up and bring them… Read more »
@rollo @redlight “In the video they ask the woman what they want in a few ways, where’s the part where they attempt to hook up?” This is kind of what I meant by like, I get that you see a LOT Rollo. But you don’t see the whole thing. You’ve seen the whole thing from the perspective of a Natural earlier in your life, and you get some field reports and stuff and I’m sure you know guys who go out and fill you in on stuff. But my buddies and I and all these guys in the PUA community… Read more »
@rugby “It’s coming here where actuall people I’ve mostly never meant call me out of my bullshit and lame excuses and allow me to learn about my ignorance and self rigthious habits and old white knighting beliefs. ” Yup, Rollo’s comment section is excellent. This is literally the only place in the Manosphere I would send guys I want to help to. Everything else is too negative and hostile. The problem with how general society handles it is they’ll tell men “it’s your fault and you should’ve somehow known better” but won’t say how to fix it and just expect… Read more »
@Yareally I got a lot of trauma from people I thought could care about my evolutionary well being. https://www.psychotherapy.net/interview/bessel-van-der-kolk-trauma Being here is a reminder of how much terror and buffers I’ve belt in a ill conceived way to protect something that I didn’t even learn how to love first which would be myself my body and my mind and my heart. I learned how to live vicariously though porn stars to get my sexual needs meet. I wasn’t allowing museum to accept real positive rejection as a way to Improve on my approach and experience in my life. Thank you… Read more »
@Yareally,
What makes you think that good looking guys have no game !!?
You make it sound like ALL good looking men got no game! !
Or a rich guy got no game!
Or a muscular guy got no game!
A good looking guy with game is better than fat unattractive guy with game.
You come across as if only ugly fat poor men got game!
I can’t believe I have to point the obvious.
Yes, a fat guy’s wish( with a good game) is to LOSE weight.
“If that’s so then the reverse would also be true, yes?” No, that doesn’t make sense lol If you have a box of blue balls and say “these balls are all blue” and I dig through that box and find a bunch of yellow balls under there, that doesn’t mean I’m saying “these balls are all yellow” it just means that your statement “these balls are all blue” is no longer accurate. Showing me more blue balls doesn’t make those yellow balls not exist, your statement will always be inaccurate. “Therefore I would suggest that both Looks and Game are… Read more »
When you get IOIs (eye contact, body language, etc.) from a woman you haven’t spoken to when you first enter a room there is something about your looks that means they are important to women. Just like this girl in the GIF, no words, just eye contact and body language that indicates sexual cues. I agree that if the guy opens his mouth and fucks it up that interest will be killed, but looks DO trigger interest in a way that places them above just being a tool in a tool box. You don’t get to put your physique away… Read more »
@Yareally,
I have a credibility issue with all field videos, a short fat guy showing his success only with the one he picked up, what about the clips of him being ignored by 10 other women!
@keyser Soze “What makes you think that good looking guys have no game !!?” I’ve never said that. But it’s very common for good looking guys to not have game because they’re bought into the idea that their looks will make up for it. And they will, as long as there’s no obstacles, no interference, no other guys with game coming into their set, and the girl makes the moves. But in practice a lot of those guys will fuck it up hardcore lol “You make it sound like ALL good looking men got no game!” I’ve never said that.… Read more »
looks are a factor agreed, but it is the comprehensive look, that is does he lift, how he holds himself, is he handsome. Look at his intensity, he could be dressed in all pink instead of white, and it would still say “I’m a man”. Imagine the same face, same body, and he’s picking his nose. on r/TheRedPill we had a couple of days ago, “Looks Are Everything” (only 76% upvoted). The poster then backtracked that into Men need to realize that “looks are everything” is shorthand for “looks are extremely damn important”, and not “looks are literally the only… Read more »
I have seen guys overcome a looks deficit with Game often enough to know that it’s the most important element of attraction. I’ve seen a fat, somewhat hairy, fry cook get with a woman so sexy most guys would jerk off to her online through nothing but his very commanding personality. I know that this chick gave up anal to the guy too. My best friend Ray is a 5′ 6″ Filipino who regularly got with a 5′ 11″ blonde he turned into a fuck friend. I know Game and mental state is vital to men’s success with women, I’ve… Read more »
Yareally,
“Or a muscular guy got no game!”
Same deal, they CAN have game, but those 2 hours in the gym followed by a good night’s sleep is a night they’re not out talking to girls.
Lol, what kind of logic was that?!
Oh shit…. I have a ” Dad Bod “….fuck…. Okay, my dad bod is just around my waist, but still ( *weepy face* ). Lmao. At least I’m a handsome fucker. : ) At 20-40 I wouldn’t have a problem whipping off my shirt in front of strange women. That was never my M.O., but it wasn’t on my ” to do ” list either. I worked out back then to stay strong. I had kind of a big mouth, so I needed to be strong enough to get myself out of trouble. From 45-54 I work out to stay… Read more »
Rollo, that vid of the chick eyeing the ball player makes me laugh so hard I farted.
“Okay, my dad bod is just around my waist . . .”
Well, in terms of mortality risk that’s the absolutely worst situation, so you’ve got that going for you.
@Rollo “When you get IOIs (eye contact, body language, etc.) from a woman you haven’t spoken to when you first enter a room there is something about your looks that means they are important to women.” This is what I’m talking about. That’s where you end your conclusions. “He got an ioi so that’s basically sex.” There are a ton of ways he can fuck that ioi up without understanding game and there are a ton of ways you can get iois without looks. End result is that looks are irrelevant. “but looks DO trigger interest in a way that… Read more »
BUT, there are two guys that make posts like hollenhund: guys who are just frustrated and confused and are looking for answers/help. Those guys can be taken under your wing and helped. But the other guys are the type who have already decided they know how the world works and shut their mind off to everything and that’s why they reject infield footage as a global conspiracy of paid models in every video and make excuses for stuff they can’t explain and brush over points when I say “ok explain how the MISC Forever Aloners exist” etc, because it doesn’t… Read more »
kfg
” Well, in terms of mortality risk that’s the absolutely worst situation, so you’ve got that going for you.”
I’m not as ” flubbery ” as the dude in the video, it’s just that my abs are only visible in certain light at certain angles…during full moons.
I’ve lost enough family members and read enough studies to understand the risks.
“Men of our generation should be lionized as paragons of virtue. Humanity has been striving for exactly this point for freakin’ MILLENIA.
Hypergamy doesn’t care.”
Humanity isn’t simply men.
@Rollo “Those two examples are only extraordinary because the operative environment is one in which Looks set the baseline.” My argument is that those two examples are NOT extraordinary if you’re going out multiple nights a week and paying attention. Hollywood and social conditioning and guys who don’t go out regularly will convince people that those examples are extraordinary but they’re not. That’s why I say your sampling is limited. “As I said in the prior thread, women don’t masturbate to the fantasy of a guy who’s funny and a great conversationalist, they get off on the image of Chris… Read more »
@A Definite Beta Guy “I can look at the women and see the objectively poor social skills” Why do you expect women to have good social skills? Seriously. That’s not a sarcastic question. What incentive in society is there for women to have good social skills, and in a society where men chase women based primarily on their looks, in what way does having good social skills increase their chance of landing a baby from an alpha? There’s no incentive and no benefit. As men we have incentive and benefit to have good social skills, but why would women have… Read more »
Yareally, “Math. If you have 24 hours in a day, sleep for 8 that leaves 16. If you spend 10 of those working a very intense job because you want to be a rich CEO (looks, money, game!), you’ve got 6 left. If you spend 2 of those hitting the gym, you’ve got 4 left. You could go talk to girls for 4 hours but odds are after 10 hours of work and 2 hours at the gym you’re going to be too exhausted so you’re going to surf the net and go to sleep.” That CEO is fucking his… Read more »
“I’m not as ” flubbery ” as the dude in the video, it’s just that my abs are only visible in certain light at certain angles…during full moons.”
So on the lean side of ideal then, actually. Mortality risk doesn’t follow fashion.
Bearing in mind that the medical field counts dying in a motorcyle race at 90 as a “loss,” but dying at 100 having spent the last 15 years hooked up to tubes as a “win.”
@keyser Soze “That CEO is fucking his secretary (and other sluts at work ,he doesn’t need to go clubbing) .” Yes. In the movies and on Mad Men he is. In reality he’s getting a lot of positive attention from those chicks but fucking them is a lawsuit that will tank his company. “looks with game does a much better results with HB9/10s.” Looks with game is super. But guys with both are incredibly rare. I’ve met ONE guy with looks AND crazy solid game. Dude had iois everywhere he went and slaughtered pussy left and right (but if I… Read more »
Whoops that last paragraph should read “There are a whole lot of good-looking guys who TALK a big game and get positive attention when they go out though lol”
As a CEO let me tell you,
Don’t ever fuck someone on the payroll. Holy shit that is a bad idea.
You know how much fucking money I spend every year in anti sexual harassment training? Lawyers?
Guys fucking their secretary’s only happens in the movies.
A chick that fucks her boss is after something, and it ain’t sex.
Sales girls that aren’t on the payroll however, are free game.
@CaveClown “Don’t ever fuck someone on the payroll. Holy shit that is a bad idea.” lol like I say, it looks AWESOME on Mad Men. But I deal with reality, not socially conditioned fantasy. And in reality Mad Men is a fantasy lol The non-payroll girls these days are risky too, with how social media witch-hunting has gone wild. Just look at any of the celebs getting their “asleep after fucking her” selfies posted or text/Tinder/etc convos posted by chicks seeking attention. I use a fake name and career at the bar, and I’m not even an important guy lol… Read more »
@Yareally
“I use a fake name and career at the bar, and I’m not even an important guy lol”
How has it come to this…
Your important here man.
@yareally,
Oh yeah, there are lots of CEO like Bill Clinton who didn’t care.
l am such an utter social fucking retard. My only choice right now is to lower my standards or not get laid. My frustration and bitterness is making it impossible to progress, but I have got to get laid. The tension between those two forces is absolutely shredding me psychologically. The problem with Game is that a lot of us that aren’t Greek Gods are also social spergtards unable to get over the thirst, unable to get past the old failures and frustration, and unable to make any progress socially. It’s fucking soul-draining to know “Hey you’re going to have… Read more »
@keyser Soze “Oh yeah, there are lots of CEO like Bill Clinton who didn’t care.” And how’d that work out lol And how would it work for any guy with less status than the POTUS? @Sun Wukong “The problem with Game is that a lot of us that aren’t Greek Gods are also social spergtards unable to get over the thirst, unable to get past the old failures and frustration, and unable to make any progress socially.” All good man, we all hit that spot. Even guys good at pickup go through spells of that shit. But remember we can’t… Read more »
@YaReally No FRs because there were no approaches this weekend. No approaches because I still can’t find a place enough enough cute, young chicks to be worth trying. Just find myself out with friends who want to hang around mid 30s married chicks or sausagefests. Guess it really doesn’t matter though. Right now I’m just so incredibly negative it’s dripping off every interaction so I just stay clammed up. Keeps me from bringing more violence my direction at least. Tempted to just goad somebody in to a fight just to beat the frustration in to someone else’s face. Not a… Read more »
@yareally,
I think it is dangerous selling “You can have it all with good game” to short/fat/unattractive guys, by telling them game is better than improving their looks.
Or Tony Robins videos, everybody can get rich!.
Don’t you think, it is like, “fat acceptance” ?
Why do you expect women to have good social skills? Seriously. That’s not a sarcastic question. What incentive in society is there for women to have good social skills These are not pertinent questions. They are besides the point. You are misunderstanding what I am saying. These statement are innacurate: As men we have incentive and benefit to have good social skills This is inaccurate. We wouldn’t be having this conversation otherwise. Your expectation of her to talk about shit that isn’t boring is based in the idea that women are basically men with tits This is inaccurate. should bring… Read more »
@Sun Wukong “No FRs because there were no approaches this weekend. No approaches because I still can’t find a place enough enough cute, young chicks to be worth trying.” If you want to try to hack the bar scene a bit: Something to give a try would be googling your city’s industry night venue (there’s always one) and hitting that up and just focusing on just chatting and shooting the shit with the dudes there. If you want to get social proof in a city fast, being social with guys on industry night is one of the fastest ways. Don’t… Read more »
@Sun: “Tempted to just goad somebody in to a fight just to beat the frustration in to someone else’s face.”
A heavy bag would do ya good. It’s OK to just scream and pound on the thing until you fall to the floor.
@A Definite Beta Guy “As men we have incentive and benefit to have good social skills This is inaccurate. We wouldn’t be having this conversation otherwise.” Our social skills allow us to display leadership of men, dominance, social proof and preselection, value in general, etc. so it benefits us to have them. “Yesterday, my 2 year old niece told me she wants to be Belle, because she has the prettiest shoes out of all the Disney Princesses. Do I really sound like the guy buying into the equalitarian fantasies?” Yes, when it comes to older women who you expect to… Read more »
YaReally: “Looks are about as important as any other tool in the Game toolbox. Remove looks and you can make up for it with preselection, social proof, dominance, tonality, DHV, teasing, negs, dread game, etc etc” Rollo: “So yes, Game is the most important aspect in attraction, but Looks are far more important than to be relegated to being a Game tool.” Interesting. This seems to be mostly a matter of differing frames – a frame wherein one’s ‘game’ is the operative function wherein all things happen even your physical presentation, and another where your social and physical presentation is… Read more »
“You need to know what each tool is good for. Is a hammer better than a screwdriver? What do we mean by better?”
We haaaaaaaave a winner!
I usually use Ferrari instead of hammer.
As far as looks go… I was at an event Sunday. People are sitting at tables, not circulating too much, watching a football game. Despite ostensibly being a singles event, there are several obvious couples there. Moreover, I wind up sitting next to a HB0 loudmouth. So I’m considering ditching. So I get up and wander a bit, and I notice the best looking one of the remainder giving me the eye. There’s an open chair there, so I sit down and mingle with her. After the event we split off and had dinner. Now these are game basics, but… Read more »
YaReally, Ethics do not get updated so as to make your life easier in the short-term. They are codes to make society function. Your ethics are fundamentally identical to third-wave feminism: this is why Hollenhund is pushing back on you. You literally told me “women don’t owe you anything.” This is the first result when I google that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPFVfxAv31w The only substantive difference between you and third-wave feminism is your devotion to PUA, which admittedly offers a chance to men to make a decent living, but in roughly the same sense as any Horatio Alger story. That’s not a viable… Read more »
I love this shit. Great comments @yaReally & everybody. I think that the looks thing has been played to death, but I attribute pretty much all of my pre-red pill success to looks. I think it just helps with first impressions and kind of greases the wheels of attraction. I’ve said it before, but sometimes 5’s and 6’s blush and kind of avoid making eye contact with me like if they did they’d melt or something. 7’s sometimes smile and wave for no other reason than I’m walking by. I’m guessing it’s just because of my looks, body language, tonality.… Read more »
@Rollo
“The first thing men report when they get into even marginally better shape, to say nothing of really great shape, is the amount of expressed sexual attraction they get from women. You will get attention when you are in better shape; what you do with that when it comes time to capitalize on it is a question of Game.”
could it be said that Game is a force multiplier? Seems like a reasonable term to me
@agent p
I came up with this in that Man in demand conference post. Yeah, it’s nerdy but I think it works.
Attraction = (looks + style + assets + 1) * game^2
Yareally – “Understand what I’m saying? Women are not failing, you are setting standards for them that they were never capable of or incentivized to achieve.” I disagree. We men are allowing women a free pass to be boring dipshits because we want to get laid. I won’t spend more than 15 minutes in the company of a boring person, man or woman, unless I’m getting paid for it. I fully expect my wife to be able to have intellectual conversations with me as well as my friends, about any number of subjects from politics to tech. If all we… Read more »
“The first thing men report when they get into even marginally better shape, to say nothing of really great shape, is the amount of expressed sexual attraction they get from women. You will get attention when you are in better shape; what you do with that when it comes time to capitalize on it is a question of Game.” Interesting conversation y’all. Here’s my take (admittedly limited experience) My V shape torso gets me lots of attention. None of which went anywhere without some game. The double comma’s in my bank account gets me lots of attention. None of which… Read more »
“None of which went anywhere without some sort of game.”
I think we’re all on the same page.
“Yareally – Women are not failing, you are setting standards for them that they were never capable of or incentivized to achieve.”
“Teddi – We men are allowing women a free pass to be boring dipshits because we want to get laid.”
teddi,
didn’t you literally just agree with yareally?
CC – nope. I dont tolerate boring dipshits in my life. I expect and get more from the women I allow into my frame. No free rides, and pussy isn’t payment.
I mean yeah, I agree many women are boring. I disagree that they arent capable of being interesting. They are capable, its just that no one expects it. So, expect it and don’t settle for less.
If all you want is a pretty faced vagina? Well plenty to choose from!
” I disagree that they arent capable of being interesting. They are capable, its just that no one expects it. So, expect it and don’t settle for less.” Anecdotal here: My wife is very smart. She can have “intelligent” conversations, but she’s more apt to just agree with what I’m saying than to actually debate me. Also, she will very quickly change the subject to nail polish, or kids, or silly story of the day. I tend to be passionate about what’s wrong with the world, society, etc. She’ll agree with me, but she just doesn’t care that much if… Read more »
@teddj4g I mean yeah, I agree many women are boring. I disagree that they arent capable of being interesting. They are capable, its just that no one expects it. So, expect it and don’t settle for less. The argument is being tossed around by so many people the original point is getting distorted. The original point was that you cannot expect women to lead the interaction, and if the interaction fails it should fall on the leader to examine what he could have done differently. Only a bad leader blames his troops for failure. The argument *was never* that boring… Read more »
@Forge “You need to know what each tool is good for. Is a hammer better than a screwdriver? What do we mean by better?” Game is the overencompassing toolbox carrying the tools. There are guys who will tell you social proof is way more important than looks or teasing or vocal tonality and the other tools in the box, just like here you’ll hear looks are more important than other tools in the box. End of the day they’re all about the same: they’re ways to help get yourself some Approach Invites and iois to make things easier. But a… Read more »
“I disagree that they arent capable of being interesting”
She’s only interesting ’till I nut.
Andy,
you remind me of me. I talk about the problems of the world a lot. Very passionate about it. Most women can’t or won’t keep up with the subjects I care about, wife included.
One of my closest guy friends has the exact opposite views on political subjects, we are close because he and I both enjoy having someone around that will go “toe to toe” with each other.
I find I have to dumb myself down for chicks.
Jeremy – I got lost as to why any man would continue talking to a boring woman, which led to all women are boring. I simply disagree. I wouldn’t consider it a fail to open a woman and find out all she knows about is reality TV. That isn’t my fault, and I have no interest in what she has to say. Andy – I certainly don’t wax philosophical with the wife 24×7. But sometimes we get into some good conversations alone or with friends. Generally if she changes subjects during a chat, that’s simply an indicator that she isn’t… Read more »
Attraction = (looks + style + assets + 1) * game^2 Could work as long as all variables are positive values. Negative game would simply be very low value like 0.1 vs 0.9 for Ya Really. If you plug a negative game number into that equation you get an ascending number. That math, she got no flow. Personally I think you need to account for negative game as piss poor game, or anti-game, e.g. getting suckered by Beta bait thrown out by chicks throws you out of her pool of considered candidates entirely. So a negative game attribute, say being… Read more »
CaveClown – “She’s only interesting ’till I nut.”
Lol. Never had one of those, hope I never will. I guess looking back I’ve never been so thirsty that tolerating a dumbass was my best option. I’d find porn and some hand lotion more enticing than the average female TV junky. And at least the small talk wouldn’t be painful…
In fact, the biggest demographic that makes use of PUA material online are male introverts. These are men who stick to themselves, burned and/or conditioned to keep to themselves to the point that they now self-condition themselves into isolation. Most of the time, introverts disqualify a conversation with someone before it has ever begun. Worse, when they make attempts to be social, and find failure, they’ll often blame everything but themselves.[…]. Worse, these same men have self-convinced that every tiny failure is worth quitting over. I find it interesting – well, OK, somewhat interesting; it’s actually rather predictable – that… Read more »
“Either way, reducing it to a formula is kind of spergy and would lead some to pursue some variables to illogical extents to get a certain kind of end number of attraction.”
I know. lol. it doesn’t really work.
“Lol. Never had one of those, hope I never will. I guess looking back I’ve never been so thirsty that tolerating a dumbass was my best option. I’d find porn and some hand lotion more enticing than the average female TV junky. And at least the small talk wouldn’t be painful…”
Are you calling me thirsty Tedd??? lol
Further, since we are in a parenting thread: do you want the mother of your children to be a dipshit? What kind of daily interactions can you have with a live in woman if the depth of her personality is decorating and makeup? All this bubbly energy stuff is great for casual sex. In the context of having children though, there are far more important traits that aren’t so fun but are essential for any chance of success. I think part of the disconnect is there are different reasons to open a woman. Some of those purposes have a low… Read more »
@Andy @agent p I don’t have a problem with that formula, but in those brackets would be a shitload more things (social proof, preselection, leadership of men, dominance, etc). But ya that’s my point, game is the overall encompassing toolbox holding those things. You can work on any of those tools if you want, but they’re just going to get you “positive attention” iois and AIs. This schlub in a windbreaker is getting INFINITELY more IOIs, AIs, etc. than any of the buff dudes or guys in suits in that mall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9Ko6Xfa84w 2:35 on his way out a girl hands… Read more »
CC -rofl I think I kinda did! I don’t like “people” and generally I find most average folks just aren’t very interesting. I don’t have friends to have them, I have friends whom are like minded and have similar values. Call them my tribe, my people, whatever you call it they are the only ones I care about. I will never want to chat up random folks for the adventure, because I know beyond all doubt that most of them probably don’t even know who’s running for President next election, let alone anything interesting to discuss. The only people I… Read more »
@hoellenhund2 …that so many in the ‘sphere are apparently deeply invested in this narrative about average beta males being pathological, anti-social, solipsistic shitheads with a sense of entitlement. Exactly what are you talking about? Who said this? I was talking about introverts, I made no mention of anything pathological. First of all, we have this totally baseless statement that introverted betas are the biggest consumers of PUA material. Nevermind that simple logic tells us that it’s precisely extroverted men that are most likely to be attracted to, and also attempt, PUA tactics. I’m pretty sure this needs no explanation. Introverted… Read more »
Yareally – brother men en masse aren’t doing shit. But you, as an individual man, can expect and get better behavior from individual women. Hell, in a way it works in your favor. If she’s into you, and wants to please you, she’ll learn to keep up with your conversation, or NEXT. My wife is in medical. She knew shit about tech before we met. She can now not only discuss tech without issue, she has actually learned a lot about how it works. Why? Because its how I make my living and important to me. She’ll never be an… Read more »
@YaReally But I’m not expecting that and women don’t owe me it. They just do what benefits them and right now being interesting and having sick social skills doesn’t benefit them because they can still fuck James Franco and Chris Hemsworth just Liked their Tweet and is totes practically their new boyfriend in their mind. Do I think this is the best state for society? No. But it’s not going to change anytime soon…. It won’t change until men stop being thirsty and raise their standards for commitment. That’s the final, fatal flaw of MGTOW, imo. MGTOW offers nothing to… Read more »
@CaveClown “you remind me of me. I talk about the problems of the world a lot. Very passionate about it. Most women can’t or won’t keep up with the subjects I care about, wife included.” Yup. This is super common. And some of your wives probably ARE interesting, because it benefitted them to learn to be. And I’m sure Rollo’s daughter is interesting because as a Red Pill guy he probably helped encourage her to develop an interesting personality and taught her ways it can benefit her (solipsism). But in 2015 most of the <25yo's that guys are meeting just… Read more »
Yareally – “But in 2015 most of the <25yo's that guys are meeting just DON'T have incentive or punsihment to bring more than pussy and feminine energy to the table. If you want more from them, you're asking them to do something they're doing just fine NOT doing"
Lol. I don't think I've ever seen a more blatant reason to avoid sub-25 yo women in my life. If this really is how things are, never marry is the right advice. These "women" are worse than kids, because kids aren't legally considered adults.
“hey are u mad at me?” “hey want to get dinner?” “if ur mad u can just tell me babe” “hey” “hey” “hey” “hey party tonight u should come out” “ok i get it ur mad at me. Just wish I knew what I did wrong.” “hey want to get dinner?”
Is this real? No exaggeration? This is how men talk to girls?
I’ve never been that bad. wow.
No wonder negging works so well.
YaReally: “A buddy viewed his GF as logical and smarter than other girls until I asked him what exactly she’s taught him about life or anything” Conversations have several layers. Besides the pure exchange of information or arguments there is an emotional layer, a kind of dance. Women are very good on this layer, so men like YaReally’s friend get hypnotized or sedated by this layer to actually believe the women would say interesting stuff. This get’s especially dramatic in case of Oneitis, up to “my wife is my best friend”. What PUA’s do is focus on that layer directly… Read more »
” I’ve never wanted to get laid so badly I would set aside that the woman in front of me is only going to stay interesting to me until I’m finished.” Stop lying. “I could just NOT fuck her and say “no you have to be able to discuss tank strategies in world war 2 before I’ll fuck you”” bwhaha. ” “hey are u mad at me?” “hey want to get dinner?” “if ur mad u can just tell me babe” “hey” “hey” “hey” “hey party tonight u should come out” “ok i get it ur mad at me. Just… Read more »
Andy – it was me in my first marriage as well. Awful to see in print. And lol not lying. I once walked away from a 22yo girl with her hand on my thigh after I installed a car radio for her. She was hot enough, but the more she talked the more she annoyed me. I’d almost say she was running anti-girl game, but thats giving her too much credit. If I’d known she was that stupid up front, I wouldn’t have offered to swap her radio. In mixed company she seemed OK, but I realized that’s because I… Read more »
@hollenhund “that so many in the ‘sphere are apparently deeply invested in this narrative about average beta males being pathological, anti-social, solipsistic shitheads with a sense of entitlement.” The idea that life owes you rewards for not stepping up and earning them is having a delusional sense of entitlement. The idea that you should be able to get a girlfriend without learning to socialize and interacting with people is anti-social entitlement. Like what do you want us to say? Oh, poor guys, life is hard so just die alone now you’re justified because it’s hard. If they want to change,… Read more »
I have a new oneitis.
I’m in love.
This is the one, I just know it.
I confess…it’s me.
Numero uno till death do us part.
Yareally – not a badass at all. I’ve simply always had standards for my personal realtionships, and I prefer self inflicted restraint over lowering those standards. I spent years in a dead bedrooms marriage, so I was far from a bad ass. I can’t say I had an abundance mentality at all, I simply realized I would only willingly and happily lower my standards so far, and past that point wanking it was the only solution.
@YaReally & @CaveClown “you remind me of me. I talk about the problems of the world a lot. Very passionate about it. Most women can’t or won’t keep up with the subjects I care about, wife included.” Yup. This is super common. And some of your wives probably ARE interesting, because it benefitted them to learn to be. And I’m sure Rollo’s daughter is interesting because as a Red Pill guy he probably helped encourage her to develop an interesting personality and taught her ways it can benefit her (solipsism). And… I have to wonder how much of this is… Read more »
Feminine energy and genuine attraction and interest (for both) is all I expect at this point.
Maybe that will change in the future, I dunno.
Jeremy – I wonder the same thing. I don’t expect my wife to be like a man with male interests. I expect her to be a human with human interests. Something deeper than pop culture anyway. I know a little bit about a whole lot of stuff. (Funny thing about reading the encyclopedia. I did it as a child, A through Z, although I skimmed a lot) I’m willing to chat about any number of subjects other than tech and politics. It just has to he something better than what’s on TV and the weather. I keep hearing women can… Read more »
Oh, and you only need 1 four leaf clover to get good luck. 😉