Red Pill Parenting – Part II

Father-Son1

What I’m about to detail here will be a revolutionary act; I’m going to give men some prescriptive advice on how I believe they should go about raising their children from a Red Pill perspective. As most of my readers know I do my best to provide observations and connect dots, from there I expect men (and women) to form their own takes on what I’m seeing and either challenge those observations or develop some actionable practice that best suits their own circumstances.

I’ll be breaking that protocol here, but the premise still applies; what I think might be universally applicable to raising and mentoring the next generation may need to be modified for what your experience and circumstances dictate.

That said, the very idea that I would inform or instruct men (and by association women) on how I think a healthier, more durable generation of men might be developed in a Red Pill awareness is tantamount to being a hate crime today. My suggesting that boys and girls would benefit greatly from a Red Pill aware father is a frightening, seditionary act in a feminine-primary social order.

As things stand on a societal level now, just the mention of Red Pill truths in casual conversation will engender either ridicule or hostility. As Red Pill awareness spreads it will be considered subversive, particularly in a social order founded on the Feminine Imperative and feminine-primary social prioritization.

I don’t have too much positive to say about Roosh these days, but one thing I had to agree with was his recent assessment of how it’s necessary for men to meet in secret gatherings and maintain (as best as possible) a state of constant anonymity if they wish to discuss anything counter to feminine-primary social doctrine. Main stream media in feminine-primary society will characterize this need for anonymity as indicative of cowardice or a lack of conviction; bitter men just contenting themselves in their private anger and poisoning the minds of whomever will listen to them.

They need this characterization for now because men have something to lose. They fear having their bread taken away from them – the same bread that feminine-primary society expects men to provide the very women who would use it to extort a desired complacency from men. Cowardice is rooted in the fear of having something to lose. Once men become largely indifferent to that bread being forthcoming, that’s either when they snap, or that’s when they start a revolution.

ScribblerG (a.k.a. Glenn) had a good reminder for men in the last thread:

Being a dad isn’t all that great in many ways these days. At best it’s mostly thankless, but for most men they are fathering into a culture that denigrates them, laughs at them and is hagiographic of motherhood. If you think this won’t effect how your children see you as a father, you are fucking kidding yourself.

I used to ride the train back and forth to the city – leaving my home at 6:30 in the morning and returning at 7:30 or later, wondering if my daughter would ever realize all I sacrificed to provide for her and her mom? I’d wonder if she’d ever get that I sacrificed being as close to her as her mother is to her for her wellbeing? That her closeness with her mom as a result of having a stay at home mom until she was 5 was a consequence of my efforts, not her Mom’s?

Guess what – nobody wants to hear it. Nobody gives a shit what sacrifices you make to be a good father and provider – it’s all about Mom. It’s all about the kids. Dad’s are at best seen as second best Moms most of the time. And even when we are “in charge”, we can be dismissed as superfluous in myriad ways.

Many men adapt by becoming second mothers and wives in the household – and the entire culture encourages this. Try being a traditional male at parent teacher night or at the pre-school or even the Boy Scout troop…Fatherhood and a family is not what it once was either. Trust me, learn from my experience. Your kids will very likely not appreciate all you’ve done for them.

Of course, I excuse all the fundo-christian-demi-god-uber-alpha-ripped-11 inch cock-men of steel™ here from this commentary. For you guys, it’s 1956 and your life is like Wally and the Beav…

Just like men subscribe to two sets of books – old and new social rule sets that contradict the other – I think our ideas of marriage fall into this same contradiction. When marriage was a social contract and not so much a legal one involving the state, the old set of books applied well to that institution. This old set of rules about marriage and what men could expect from that largely socially-enforced institution worked well and in a complementary paradigm. From the Little House on the Prairie days up to the post-war era, the first set of books worked well with regard to marriage and fatherhood.

After the sexual revolution, the second set of books took social preeminence. Optimizing Hypergamy and all of the social and legal paradigms that make it the foundation of our present social order took priority. Yet, both men and women still cling to the old order, the first set of rules when it comes to a man’s role as a husband and a father, and simultaneously expect him to adopt and promote the feminine-primary interests of the new feminine-primary order.

Fathers are expected to follow the edicts of conventional masculinity with regards to their provisioning for a family, but are also expected to adopt, embrace and internalize their popularized role of being superfluous, ridiculous or even angry and abusively resistant to the second set of rules.

In other words, the expectation is that he should  be happy in his sacrificial role of provider, happy in his lack of appreciation for it or his presence, and happy to have the ‘village’ of society raise his children into the next crop of confused, frustrated adults while he’s doing it. He should be happy in his presence being devalued, but be held responsible for his lack of presence that his sacrifices demands.

Oh, and he should also feel a sense of smug pride when he see another man being pilloried for the same lack of his superfluous presence in his family’s life.

Raising Kids

I’m sure all of this sounds like a bridge too far for most men. Yes, the prospect of becoming a father is depressing, and I can see how these truths would make the average man despondent about becoming a new parent. However, I feel it’s incumbent upon me that I’m honest with men about what they’re up against before I advocate how to be a Red Pill aware father.

You will never be appreciated for your sacrifices, and certainly not while you’re making them. Your presence is only as superfluous as you allow it to be. While you will never be appreciated for it in any measurable sense, you will be liable for it, so my advice is to make the most of it in a Red Pill respect. Your reward, your motivation, for being a Red Pill parent and a positively masculine example in your kids’ lives needs to come from inside yourself because it will never be rewarded by a feminine-primary social order. If you don’t think you will ever find being a parent intrinsically rewarding, get a vasectomy now because it will never be extrinsically rewarding.

Understand now, the Feminine Imperative wants you to be despondent about your role.

Understand this, your presence, your influence, will only be as valuable or as appreciated as you are willing to make it to yourself. Your Red Pill aware influence in your kids’ lives needs to matter to you first, because it will never be appreciated in your time, and in fact will be actively, hostilely, be resisted by a world saturated in feminine-primacy.

Being a mother and birthing a child is a constantly lauded position today. By virtue of being a mother, women are rewarded and respected in society. Men must add fatherhood to their burden of performance just to avoid the societal default of being vilified.

The Feminine Imperative wants you to give up and allow the ‘village’ to raise your sons and daughters to perpetuate the cycle of the second set of rules. It wants you to feel superfluous; the Feminine Imperative’s maintenance relies on you feeling worthless. The reason men commit suicide at four times the rate of women is due exactly to this sense of male-worthlessness cultivated by the Feminine Imperative.

In Preventive Medicine I detail part of our present feminine-primary conditioning and how the imperative raises boys to be Betas and girls to be caricatures of Strong Independent Women®. Part of this was based on the essay Teach Your Children Well and the early ages at which this begins. The first, most primary truth you need to accept as a father is that if you don’t teach your children Red Pill truths there is an entire western(izing) world that is already established to raise them in your absence.

‘The Village’ will raise your kids if you don’t. You will be resisted, you will be ridiculed, you will be accused of every thought-crime to the point of being dragged away to jail in your imparting Red Pill awareness (in the future I expect it to be equated with child abuse). The Village will teach your boys from the most impressionable ages (5 years old) to loath their maleness, to feel shame for being less perfect than girls and to want to remake their gender-identity more like girls.

The Village will raise your daughters to perpetuate the same cycle that devalues conventional masculinity, the same cycle that considers men’s presence as superfluous and their sacrifices as granted expectations. It will raise your daughters to over-inflate their sense of worth with unearned confidence at the expense of boys as their foils. It will teach them to openly embrace Hypergamy as their highest authority and to disrespect anything resembling masculinity as more than some silly anachronism.

The good news is that for all of these efforts in social engineering, the Feminine Imperative is still confounded by basic biology and the psychological firmware evolved into us over millennia. That basic root reality is your greatest advantage as a father.

Raising Boys

I’m often asked when I believe would be the best time to introduce a boy to the Red Pill. A lot of guys with teenage sons want to hand them a copy of The Rational Male before they hit 18, or maybe when they’re 15, some even say 12 is really a good time. While it’s flattering for me to hear men tell me how they gave their teenage sons a copy of my book, I have to think that this is too late.

I’ve been a father to a teenage daughter for a while now and in my 20’s I was a mentor (big brother figure) to a young man I watched grow from a 10 year old boy to a 30’s man today. One thing I’ve learned from dealing with kids as I have is that the Feminine Imperative conditions children from the moment they can understand what’s playing on a TV or in a movie. By the time that kid is 10 they already have the ideological conditioning that came from a decade of meme’s and messaging taught to them by schools, Disney, Nickelodeon, popular music, feminine-primary parenting from their friends parents, even your own extended family members.

By the time that kid is 10 they’ve already internalized the stereotypes and social conditioning of the Blue Pill and they will start parroting these memes and behaving and believing in accordance with that conditioning. By the time they are in their tweens and beginning to socially interact with the opposite sex, the Blue Pill feminine-primary conditioning will be evident to any man with a Red Pill lens to hear and see it. That Blue Pill internalized ideology will seem natural and logical to them even though they couldn’t tell you how they came to their formative beliefs.

The time to start exemplifying Red Pill awareness in a parental capacity is before you even have kids. As I detailed in the first of these posts, an internalized Game that results from strong Red Pill awareness and a positive, dominant Frame control are imperative before you even consider monogamy. That Frame becomes the foundation for your parenting when your children come along.

I realize this isn’t exactly helpful for men who came to Red Pill awareness after their kids were in their teens, but it needs to be addressed for men considering becoming a father. Ideally you want to impart that same Red Pill awareness during a boy’s formative years. Children completely lack the capacity for abstract thought until their brains fully form and they learn to develop it. The age of 5 is the time when kids are most impressionable and learn the most, but they do so by watching behavior. So it’s imperative for a Red Pill father to demonstrate positive, conventional masculinity during these years.

Include your son in male-space, where only men are allowed to participate. Even if all he does is sit and play, it’s important for him to understand male tribalism. Eventually, as he gets older, he’ll feel more a part of that collective. In a feminine-primary world that is bent on his devaluation as a male human it’s important for him to feel valued in male-space and to institute his own male-space as he gets older.

Within this male-space your son needs to learn about his eventual burden of performance.I’d also advise you institute some kind of rite of passage for him from being a boy to being a man. There needs to be a delineation point at which his manhood is marked. This is important because it not only teaches him to value his masculinity, but also to accept the responsibilities of his burden of performance.

Most Beta men are uncomfortable even calling themselves ‘men’, so the earlier a kid understands this the better he is in accepting his manhood. The Feminine Imperative is all too ready to teach him his masculinity is a mask he wears; something he puts on and not the ‘real’ him. He needs to proudly reject this notion that his masculinity is a show.

He needs to learn that men and women are different and only deserving of earned respect, not a default respect granted to the female sex. Eventually he needs to learn to accept his own dominance and mastery in a world that will tell him his sex is a scourge on society.

Your presence in his life is an absolute necessity if you are to thwart the efforts of fem-centrism. I was asked about Red Pill fathering in my last Christian McQueen interview and my first inclination was to say do things with your son. Even if that’s playing chess, being the man, his model for masculinity is vitally important and to impart this to him you need to have a mutual purpose. As I’ve written before, women talk, men do. Men get together socially with a purpose, an action, a hobby, a sport, a creative endeavor, etc. and then they communicate while working towards that purpose.

Your son must learn this from a very early age, particularly when he’s likely to be forced into feminine-primary social structures and conditioned to communicate like girls do in school as well as in popular media. One of the tragedies of our age is a generation of Blue Pill men raising their sons to adopt feminine-primary communication preferences because they themselves had no experience with conventional masculinity. They can’t teach what they don’t understand.

Demonstrate, do not explicate is true of dealing with women, but it is also an imperative of Red Pill parenting. Your son (and daughter) needs to see his mother’s deference to your dominant Frame and beneficent authority. He needs to understand on a rudimentary level that his mother responds to your positively masculine Frame. Again this is imperative since your kids will see a much different narrative being displayed in popular culture and their schooling.

Show him how a man presents himself, how a man reacts to a threat, how a man commands a dog, how a man interacts with, and helps, other men he values. Do not think that you’ll start teaching him Red Pill awareness when he’s old enough to understand it. By then it’s too late, he’s resistant to it and thinks his Beta Game is more appropriate. Your son will follow your lead, but that must start from day one, not age 12. I have a good friend now who’s 16 year old son is literally following the same path his Beta father; he’s moved in with his estranged ex wife because he was closer to his ONEitis girlfriend. Now she’s bailed on him and he’s stuck with his neurotic mother.

The consequences of a Blue Pill conditioned mindset also start early. I’ve seen 10 year old boys despondent over not having a girlfriend. I’ve counseled a girl who’s former teenage boyfriend stabbed and killed her new boyfriend 32 times because she was his ONE. They get ONEitis because they are taught to be predisposed to it.

As your son moves into his teenage years that connection you began in his formative years should strengthen. You can begin to introduce him to Red Pill awareness, but in all likelihood you’ll notice him using his own Red Pill lens when it comes to dealing with girls. His grasping the fundaments of women’s dualistic sexual strategy, Hypergamy and how this will be used against him in the future is something imperative that he learns later.

This is the time to reinforce that Red Pill sensitivity and capitalize on his own awareness by introducing him to Red Pill ideas he wasn’t aware of. Bluntly, overtly declaring Red Pill truths might make sense to you, but plucking out bits of his own Red Pill observations and expanding on them in his teen years will probably be received better and more naturally.

One thing I know about teenage boys and girls is that if you try to tell them something profound they roll their eyes and blow you off, but if you wait for the right moment to let them come to that thing you want them to learn on their own then they’re receptive to it. Your demonstrating Red Pill awareness doesn’t stop when they’re teens.

Raising Girls

Much of what I’ve outlined for raising boys would cross over into raising a daughter, however there are some differences in approach. Exemplifying a Red Pill ideal, and demonstrations of positive, dominantly masculine Frame control are still the highest priority, but more so is the modeled behavior of the girl’s mother toward you and that Frame. If your wife resists, ridicules or mocks your Frame, this is the lesson your daughter will be taught about masculinity. You must model her perceptions of masculinity while your wife models the aspects of femininity – for better or worse.

A lot of how you approach raising a daughter can be based on your Red Pill understanding of how to deal with women, and based on much of the same basic gender-complementary foundations. The same Game principles you would use with women are actually founded on behavior sets that little girls learn and enjoy while they’re growing up. Amused Mastery is a prime example of this.

You will notice that root level Hypergamy manifests itself in girls at a very young age. In Warren Farrell’s book, Why Men Are The Way They Are he notes that girls as young as 7 already have a a definition of the (celebrity) “boys they’d like to kiss and the boys they’d like to marry.” No doubt girls’ acculturation influences their preferences, but the Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks archetypes are part of their mental firmware.

As a father, your primary role will be one of modeling the provider security seeking aspect of the Hypergamous equation. While that comfort and control is necessary it tends to be a trap for most Betas. The challenge most Beta fathers fail at is embracing and owning the very necessary Alpha / Dominant role that makes up the other side of that equation.

The challenge is exemplifying Amused Mastery with your daughter, but in such a way that it balances Alpha dominance and control with rapport, security and comfort. In my post Myth of the Good Guy I make the case that adult women don’t really look for this balance in the same man. Alphas are for fucking, Betas are for long term security, and men who think they can embody both are neither sought after nor really believable. The root of this AF/BB mental separation of Hypergamous purpose-specific men can be traced back to the impression of masculinity that woman’s father set for her in her formative years.

Lean too far toward Alpha dominance and you become the asshole abuser who domineered poor mom while she was growing up. Lean too far to the Beta, permissive, passive and feminine side of the spectrum and the future men in her life will be colored by your deferring to the feminine as authority – thus placing her in the role of having to create the security she never expects men to have a real command of.

The challenge of raising a boy is modeling and exemplifying the positive, dominant masculine role you want him to boldly embrace in spite of the same fem-centric world arrayed against yourself. The challenge of raising a girl is embodying the dominant masculine man you will eventually be proud to call your son in law. Your daughter needs to be able to identify that guy by comparing him to the masculine role you set for her.

Most contemporary men (that is to say 80%+ Beta men) are very uncomfortable in asserting dominance with their daughters for fear of being perceived as misogynists according to their feminine-centric acculturation. The zeitgeist of this era’s approach to fathers parenting girls is one of walking on eggshells around their little princesses. The fear is one of avoiding instilling a crushing of their independence or limiting their future opportunities by being more permissive with girls. The gender-correct hope is that in doing so they’ll all go on to be the future doctors and scientists society needs, but that permissiveness and coddling does them no favors in the long run.

If you were uncomfortable experimenting with Red Pill concepts while you were single, you’ll be even more so in raising a daughter. The most important impression you need to leave her with is that men and women are different, but complementary to the other. She needs to know that your masculine dominance is beneficial to both her and her mother, and your personal mastery of you conditions and environment as an aid to her and the family. She needs to understand that girls and women are, sometimes, excluded from male-spaces, particularly if you also have a son. In fact it’s boon if you have a son to teach while you bring up a daughter as she’ll see his upbringing as a model for positive masculinity.

 

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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kfg
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“You need to know what each tool is good for. Is a hammer better than a screwdriver? What do we mean by better?”

We haaaaaaaave a winner!

I usually use Ferrari instead of hammer.

Striver
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As far as looks go… I was at an event Sunday. People are sitting at tables, not circulating too much, watching a football game. Despite ostensibly being a singles event, there are several obvious couples there. Moreover, I wind up sitting next to a HB0 loudmouth. So I’m considering ditching. So I get up and wander a bit, and I notice the best looking one of the remainder giving me the eye. There’s an open chair there, so I sit down and mingle with her. After the event we split off and had dinner. Now these are game basics, but… Read more »

A Definite Beta Guy
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YaReally, Ethics do not get updated so as to make your life easier in the short-term. They are codes to make society function. Your ethics are fundamentally identical to third-wave feminism: this is why Hollenhund is pushing back on you. You literally told me “women don’t owe you anything.” This is the first result when I google that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPFVfxAv31w The only substantive difference between you and third-wave feminism is your devotion to PUA, which admittedly offers a chance to men to make a decent living, but in roughly the same sense as any Horatio Alger story. That’s not a viable… Read more »

Andy
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I love this shit. Great comments @yaReally & everybody. I think that the looks thing has been played to death, but I attribute pretty much all of my pre-red pill success to looks. I think it just helps with first impressions and kind of greases the wheels of attraction. I’ve said it before, but sometimes 5’s and 6’s blush and kind of avoid making eye contact with me like if they did they’d melt or something. 7’s sometimes smile and wave for no other reason than I’m walking by. I’m guessing it’s just because of my looks, body language, tonality.… Read more »

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@Rollo
“The first thing men report when they get into even marginally better shape, to say nothing of really great shape, is the amount of expressed sexual attraction they get from women. You will get attention when you are in better shape; what you do with that when it comes time to capitalize on it is a question of Game.”

could it be said that Game is a force multiplier? Seems like a reasonable term to me

Andy
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@agent p

I came up with this in that Man in demand conference post. Yeah, it’s nerdy but I think it works.

Attraction = (looks + style + assets + 1) * game^2

teddj4g
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Yareally – “Understand what I’m saying? Women are not failing, you are setting standards for them that they were never capable of or incentivized to achieve.” I disagree. We men are allowing women a free pass to be boring dipshits because we want to get laid. I won’t spend more than 15 minutes in the company of a boring person, man or woman, unless I’m getting paid for it. I fully expect my wife to be able to have intellectual conversations with me as well as my friends, about any number of subjects from politics to tech. If all we… Read more »

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“The first thing men report when they get into even marginally better shape, to say nothing of really great shape, is the amount of expressed sexual attraction they get from women. You will get attention when you are in better shape; what you do with that when it comes time to capitalize on it is a question of Game.” Interesting conversation y’all. Here’s my take (admittedly limited experience) My V shape torso gets me lots of attention. None of which went anywhere without some game. The double comma’s in my bank account gets me lots of attention. None of which… Read more »

Andy
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“None of which went anywhere without some sort of game.”

I think we’re all on the same page.

CaveClown
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“Yareally – Women are not failing, you are setting standards for them that they were never capable of or incentivized to achieve.”

“Teddi – We men are allowing women a free pass to be boring dipshits because we want to get laid.”

teddi,

didn’t you literally just agree with yareally?

teddj4g
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CC – nope. I dont tolerate boring dipshits in my life. I expect and get more from the women I allow into my frame. No free rides, and pussy isn’t payment.

I mean yeah, I agree many women are boring. I disagree that they arent capable of being interesting. They are capable, its just that no one expects it. So, expect it and don’t settle for less.

If all you want is a pretty faced vagina? Well plenty to choose from!

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” I disagree that they arent capable of being interesting. They are capable, its just that no one expects it. So, expect it and don’t settle for less.” Anecdotal here: My wife is very smart. She can have “intelligent” conversations, but she’s more apt to just agree with what I’m saying than to actually debate me. Also, she will very quickly change the subject to nail polish, or kids, or silly story of the day. I tend to be passionate about what’s wrong with the world, society, etc. She’ll agree with me, but she just doesn’t care that much if… Read more »

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@teddj4g I mean yeah, I agree many women are boring. I disagree that they arent capable of being interesting. They are capable, its just that no one expects it. So, expect it and don’t settle for less. The argument is being tossed around by so many people the original point is getting distorted. The original point was that you cannot expect women to lead the interaction, and if the interaction fails it should fall on the leader to examine what he could have done differently. Only a bad leader blames his troops for failure. The argument *was never* that boring… Read more »

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@Forge “You need to know what each tool is good for. Is a hammer better than a screwdriver? What do we mean by better?” Game is the overencompassing toolbox carrying the tools. There are guys who will tell you social proof is way more important than looks or teasing or vocal tonality and the other tools in the box, just like here you’ll hear looks are more important than other tools in the box. End of the day they’re all about the same: they’re ways to help get yourself some Approach Invites and iois to make things easier. But a… Read more »

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“I disagree that they arent capable of being interesting”

She’s only interesting ’till I nut.

Andy,

you remind me of me. I talk about the problems of the world a lot. Very passionate about it. Most women can’t or won’t keep up with the subjects I care about, wife included.

One of my closest guy friends has the exact opposite views on political subjects, we are close because he and I both enjoy having someone around that will go “toe to toe” with each other.

I find I have to dumb myself down for chicks.

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Jeremy – I got lost as to why any man would continue talking to a boring woman, which led to all women are boring. I simply disagree. I wouldn’t consider it a fail to open a woman and find out all she knows about is reality TV. That isn’t my fault, and I have no interest in what she has to say. Andy – I certainly don’t wax philosophical with the wife 24×7. But sometimes we get into some good conversations alone or with friends. Generally if she changes subjects during a chat, that’s simply an indicator that she isn’t… Read more »

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Attraction = (looks + style + assets + 1) * game^2 Could work as long as all variables are positive values. Negative game would simply be very low value like 0.1 vs 0.9 for Ya Really. If you plug a negative game number into that equation you get an ascending number. That math, she got no flow. Personally I think you need to account for negative game as piss poor game, or anti-game, e.g. getting suckered by Beta bait thrown out by chicks throws you out of her pool of considered candidates entirely. So a negative game attribute, say being… Read more »

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CaveClown – “She’s only interesting ’till I nut.”

Lol. Never had one of those, hope I never will. I guess looking back I’ve never been so thirsty that tolerating a dumbass was my best option. I’d find porn and some hand lotion more enticing than the average female TV junky. And at least the small talk wouldn’t be painful…

hoellenhund2
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In fact, the biggest demographic that makes use of PUA material online are male introverts. These are men who stick to themselves, burned and/or conditioned to keep to themselves to the point that they now self-condition themselves into isolation. Most of the time, introverts disqualify a conversation with someone before it has ever begun. Worse, when they make attempts to be social, and find failure, they’ll often blame everything but themselves.[…]. Worse, these same men have self-convinced that every tiny failure is worth quitting over. I find it interesting – well, OK, somewhat interesting; it’s actually rather predictable – that… Read more »

Andy
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“Either way, reducing it to a formula is kind of spergy and would lead some to pursue some variables to illogical extents to get a certain kind of end number of attraction.”

I know. lol. it doesn’t really work.

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“Lol. Never had one of those, hope I never will. I guess looking back I’ve never been so thirsty that tolerating a dumbass was my best option. I’d find porn and some hand lotion more enticing than the average female TV junky. And at least the small talk wouldn’t be painful…”

Are you calling me thirsty Tedd??? lol

teddj4g
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Further, since we are in a parenting thread: do you want the mother of your children to be a dipshit? What kind of daily interactions can you have with a live in woman if the depth of her personality is decorating and makeup? All this bubbly energy stuff is great for casual sex. In the context of having children though, there are far more important traits that aren’t so fun but are essential for any chance of success. I think part of the disconnect is there are different reasons to open a woman. Some of those purposes have a low… Read more »

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@Andy @agent p I don’t have a problem with that formula, but in those brackets would be a shitload more things (social proof, preselection, leadership of men, dominance, etc). But ya that’s my point, game is the overall encompassing toolbox holding those things. You can work on any of those tools if you want, but they’re just going to get you “positive attention” iois and AIs. This schlub in a windbreaker is getting INFINITELY more IOIs, AIs, etc. than any of the buff dudes or guys in suits in that mall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9Ko6Xfa84w 2:35 on his way out a girl hands… Read more »

teddj4g
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CC -rofl I think I kinda did! I don’t like “people” and generally I find most average folks just aren’t very interesting. I don’t have friends to have them, I have friends whom are like minded and have similar values. Call them my tribe, my people, whatever you call it they are the only ones I care about. I will never want to chat up random folks for the adventure, because I know beyond all doubt that most of them probably don’t even know who’s running for President next election, let alone anything interesting to discuss. The only people I… Read more »

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@hoellenhund2 …that so many in the ‘sphere are apparently deeply invested in this narrative about average beta males being pathological, anti-social, solipsistic shitheads with a sense of entitlement. Exactly what are you talking about? Who said this? I was talking about introverts, I made no mention of anything pathological. First of all, we have this totally baseless statement that introverted betas are the biggest consumers of PUA material. Nevermind that simple logic tells us that it’s precisely extroverted men that are most likely to be attracted to, and also attempt, PUA tactics. I’m pretty sure this needs no explanation. Introverted… Read more »

teddj4g
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teddj4g
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Yareally – brother men en masse aren’t doing shit. But you, as an individual man, can expect and get better behavior from individual women. Hell, in a way it works in your favor. If she’s into you, and wants to please you, she’ll learn to keep up with your conversation, or NEXT. My wife is in medical. She knew shit about tech before we met. She can now not only discuss tech without issue, she has actually learned a lot about how it works. Why? Because its how I make my living and important to me. She’ll never be an… Read more »

Jeremy
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@YaReally But I’m not expecting that and women don’t owe me it. They just do what benefits them and right now being interesting and having sick social skills doesn’t benefit them because they can still fuck James Franco and Chris Hemsworth just Liked their Tweet and is totes practically their new boyfriend in their mind. Do I think this is the best state for society? No. But it’s not going to change anytime soon…. It won’t change until men stop being thirsty and raise their standards for commitment. That’s the final, fatal flaw of MGTOW, imo. MGTOW offers nothing to… Read more »

YaReally
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@CaveClown “you remind me of me. I talk about the problems of the world a lot. Very passionate about it. Most women can’t or won’t keep up with the subjects I care about, wife included.” Yup. This is super common. And some of your wives probably ARE interesting, because it benefitted them to learn to be. And I’m sure Rollo’s daughter is interesting because as a Red Pill guy he probably helped encourage her to develop an interesting personality and taught her ways it can benefit her (solipsism). But in 2015 most of the <25yo's that guys are meeting just… Read more »

teddj4g
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teddj4g
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Yareally – “But in 2015 most of the <25yo's that guys are meeting just DON'T have incentive or punsihment to bring more than pussy and feminine energy to the table. If you want more from them, you're asking them to do something they're doing just fine NOT doing"

Lol. I don't think I've ever seen a more blatant reason to avoid sub-25 yo women in my life. If this really is how things are, never marry is the right advice. These "women" are worse than kids, because kids aren't legally considered adults.

CaveClown
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“hey are u mad at me?” “hey want to get dinner?” “if ur mad u can just tell me babe” “hey” “hey” “hey” “hey party tonight u should come out” “ok i get it ur mad at me. Just wish I knew what I did wrong.” “hey want to get dinner?”

Is this real? No exaggeration? This is how men talk to girls?

I’ve never been that bad. wow.

No wonder negging works so well.

lh
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lh
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YaReally: “A buddy viewed his GF as logical and smarter than other girls until I asked him what exactly she’s taught him about life or anything” Conversations have several layers. Besides the pure exchange of information or arguments there is an emotional layer, a kind of dance. Women are very good on this layer, so men like YaReally’s friend get hypnotized or sedated by this layer to actually believe the women would say interesting stuff. This get’s especially dramatic in case of Oneitis, up to “my wife is my best friend”. What PUA’s do is focus on that layer directly… Read more »

Andy
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Andy
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” I’ve never wanted to get laid so badly I would set aside that the woman in front of me is only going to stay interesting to me until I’m finished.” Stop lying. “I could just NOT fuck her and say “no you have to be able to discuss tank strategies in world war 2 before I’ll fuck you”” bwhaha. ” “hey are u mad at me?” “hey want to get dinner?” “if ur mad u can just tell me babe” “hey” “hey” “hey” “hey party tonight u should come out” “ok i get it ur mad at me. Just… Read more »

teddj4g
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teddj4g
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Andy – it was me in my first marriage as well. Awful to see in print. And lol not lying. I once walked away from a 22yo girl with her hand on my thigh after I installed a car radio for her. She was hot enough, but the more she talked the more she annoyed me. I’d almost say she was running anti-girl game, but thats giving her too much credit. If I’d known she was that stupid up front, I wouldn’t have offered to swap her radio. In mixed company she seemed OK, but I realized that’s because I… Read more »

YaReally
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YaReally
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@hollenhund “that so many in the ‘sphere are apparently deeply invested in this narrative about average beta males being pathological, anti-social, solipsistic shitheads with a sense of entitlement.” The idea that life owes you rewards for not stepping up and earning them is having a delusional sense of entitlement. The idea that you should be able to get a girlfriend without learning to socialize and interacting with people is anti-social entitlement. Like what do you want us to say? Oh, poor guys, life is hard so just die alone now you’re justified because it’s hard. If they want to change,… Read more »

CaveClown
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I have a new oneitis.

I’m in love.

This is the one, I just know it.

I confess…it’s me.

Numero uno till death do us part.

teddj4g
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Yareally – not a badass at all. I’ve simply always had standards for my personal realtionships, and I prefer self inflicted restraint over lowering those standards. I spent years in a dead bedrooms marriage, so I was far from a bad ass. I can’t say I had an abundance mentality at all, I simply realized I would only willingly and happily lower my standards so far, and past that point wanking it was the only solution.

Jeremy
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@YaReally & @CaveClown “you remind me of me. I talk about the problems of the world a lot. Very passionate about it. Most women can’t or won’t keep up with the subjects I care about, wife included.” Yup. This is super common. And some of your wives probably ARE interesting, because it benefitted them to learn to be. And I’m sure Rollo’s daughter is interesting because as a Red Pill guy he probably helped encourage her to develop an interesting personality and taught her ways it can benefit her (solipsism). And… I have to wonder how much of this is… Read more »

CaveClown
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Feminine energy and genuine attraction and interest (for both) is all I expect at this point.

Maybe that will change in the future, I dunno.

teddj4g
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teddj4g
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Jeremy – I wonder the same thing. I don’t expect my wife to be like a man with male interests. I expect her to be a human with human interests. Something deeper than pop culture anyway. I know a little bit about a whole lot of stuff. (Funny thing about reading the encyclopedia. I did it as a child, A through Z, although I skimmed a lot) I’m willing to chat about any number of subjects other than tech and politics. It just has to he something better than what’s on TV and the weather. I keep hearing women can… Read more »

teddj4g
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teddj4g
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Oh, and you only need 1 four leaf clover to get good luck. wink

Jeremy
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Jeremy
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Yes, but if you wait for the royal flush to bet big, you’ll loose all you have in antes.

YaReally
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@teddj4g “Oh, and you only need 1 four leaf clover to get good luck. ;)” That’s a cute sentiment. Tell it to these guys: https://www.reddit.com/r/SuicideWatch/search?q=virgin&restrict_sr=on And: https://www.reddit.com/r/SuicideWatch/comments/2xk74e/rtheredpill_was_right_im_a_beta_and_a_loser/ “I’m very short, think bottom 10% statistically. I used to be fat and now have massive ugly scars running through my body making my skin look like patched-up fabric.” “The only thing going for me is a passion for art and a 6-figure career. But it doesn’t matter. I sit here alone with my paycheck and bitter memories of trying to be witty/engaging/interesting, asking out tons of girls and getting rejected each time.”… Read more »

agent p
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agent p
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@rollo, So per above, my message to my son, this is a parenting thread after all, is to put in the work if they want the good outcome. The lesson to my son is all the basics, get in shape, have some style, approach like there’s no tomorrow and adopt a mindset for success. The little guy is only eleven, but he’s overcome some big challenges in his life already in the educational environment, he has attained quantifiable success that is demonstrable simply through hard work and some good coaching by his school. so I am lucky because I’ll always… Read more »

Dragonfly
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Wow! It’s like the PUA is giving out philosophical life advice! But it would actually really help many of the Christian young single men that are conditioned their whole life to be a certain way… and then to be happy they got a girl (finally) on her time table. And then they live so many years with sex issues Imagine the impact of a PUA like that one in that last video telling a group of single Christian men who were ready to hear the message about why they mess up so much with women. Especially that part about the… Read more »

Luxocrat
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Just came across this tidbit via Twitter (tagged you in it, Rollo): https://youtu.be/PRY-6Sv9H94

REPORT: WHY MEN ARE GIVING UP ON MARRIAGE
Marriages in U.S. now at record low – and it’s by design!

by KIT DANIELS | INFOWARS.COM | OCTOBER 17, 2015

More and more men are giving up on marriage.

A Catholic pastor recently revealed he’s only performing five marriages a year, down from 35 over 25 years ago.

Dragonfly
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Dragonfly
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It’s amazing to me, that in realizing the problem, one can also shut out the possibility of any solutions outside of what makes them comfortable.

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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Y’all tearing this comment section up!!! Great conversations. YaReally – that reddit is horrifying. ” Lemme know how the whole “guys should just have high standards and not be desperate enough to bang girls that can’t quote the encyclopaedia like my unicorn wife” advice pans out for these guys. PUA can help these guys get past this shit if they decide they want to put in the work and can work on letting go of the victim mindset and quit listening to people telling them that shit they’ll never have is what they need to get a girlfriend instead of… Read more »

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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YaReally – thank you man. Really.

Rollo – You already know brother.

CaveClown
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I made the mistake of clicking on that reddit link. Fuck me. I was in a mindset like that for a long time. Long time. Short, ugly, worthless. Oh yeah, been there. Still can feel it at the edge of my brain, haunting me, teasing me. For awhile the red pill teachings made it worse. I couldn’t handle it. Sometimes it comes back. Just a few minutes at a time. Sometimes for whole days. Oneitis is hard with that mindset too. What if this is the only girl I could ever have sex with, ever? What if I get out… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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” It’s like the PUA is giving out philosophical life advice! ”

A good one ought to be able to. Life is game.

“It’s amazing to me, that in realizing the problem, one can also shut out the possibility of any solutions outside of what makes them comfortable.”

No discomfort, no gain. Pity it doesn’t rhyme.
With practice, the discomfort becomes a pleasure.

Blaximus
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kfg

” With practice, the discomfort becomes a pleasure.”

It would appear that this sentiment is becoming the new gospel.

Blaximus
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Cave

Yeah. That reddit is some raw stuff.

I close it, then re-open the link. I can’t grasp what I’m reading there.

CaveClown
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Oh, I grasp it.

kobayashii1681
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@Rollo – That GIF tho’….There’s nothing that’s more pleasing than seeing a woman get thirsty…

Luxocrat
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Whoops! Posted in wrong thread.

And now the appeal for men to marry to “help the community/State”: https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/656571501857120256

fleezer
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fleezer
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“Even a lot of the ones that turn to a hermit life of xbox and porn are still depressed and CRAVING the feeling of a girl legitimately liking them. Sometimes not even fucking them, just HOLDING HANDS and shit.” guys will have a tough time with pua if they can’t swallow trp. you’re talking about totally rewiring guys. that is a tall order. first they need to understand that girls won’t ever really like them because girls don’t really like anyone but themselves. they like the traits the guy has. wanting to be liked/loved for the person you are is… Read more »

benfromtexas
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benfromtexas
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Now now, you better “man up” and marry those Crow’s feet sluts. After all, it’s for the greater good. LOL

YaReally
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YaReally
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@Blaximus “I told him he could do the same thing if he would just TRY. I’m older than him, I’m greyer than him, and I have a wife and kids at home. He’s single, not older and grey, and he’s smart. But he would not even try. Even watching me, he believed that he could NEVER do those things.” Welcome to knowing me circa my pre-PUA days, and most guys who get into pickup, before they get into it and baby step their way into success. Most of us don’t think we can do it. It’s fucking magical. You believe… Read more »

trackback

[…] had a great comment from last week’s thread that speaks to […]

kobayashii1681
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@Blaximus & Caveclown: Yeah man….I’ve just gone through some of the reddit stuff…Wow! Fuck, fuck, fuck!!!! Rollo, I think this is especially why your series on red pill parenting is NECESSARY, IMPERATIVE, INEXORABLE & DE RIGEUR especially for boys…for us and our sons, & brothers!!! Over the last half century, the FI, through strong propaganda, education, etc has broken the structures that aid in raising men who at the very least do not doubt their masculinity. Now, due to raising men in an egalitarian way, to see things through the FI myopic dystopia, we have many soldiers out there who… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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@Blaximus: “It would appear that this sentiment is becoming the new gospel.”

Is it? It’s simply my experience, as well as that of many others.

A Definite Beta Guy
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YaReally, Men deal with “imaginary rules” all the time. Are you familiar at all with a little something called “History”? You might find a great deal of men preoccupied with imaginary rules, and even imaginary debates such as the number of angels dancing on a pinhead. The male mind concerns itself greatly with “what ought” in addition to “what is.” These two are intertwined in human evolution and are not divorceable, particularly for a social species, particularly when “what ought” so greatly affects “what is.” You are pathologizing this mindset along with a great deal else of rational male behavior:… Read more »

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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ADBG- I’ve never considered myself a PUA proponent, but I can see no argument against most of what YaReally’s been saying here. It seems you are exaggerating what his position actually is. If a man has a mindset that is giving him negative results ( consistently ), then what would you call that if not a ” negative mindset “? ” The male mind concerns itself greatly with “what ought” in addition to “what is.” These two are intertwined in human evolution and are not divorceable, particularly for a social species, particularly when “what ought” so greatly affects “what is.””… Read more »

redlight
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redlight
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… that are fundamentally no different from any third wave feminist.
Fundamentally, the only difference …

that failed, the pretend quotes from him were weak, and total silly was:

Are you familiar at all with a little something called “History”

continue with the “push-back”

Is This Thing On?
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Is This Thing On?
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This thread is getting old, so this may not be seen, but just in case it does…

Words simply fail me.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/19/living/mens-movement-kevin-powell-feat/index.html?sr=fbCNN102015mens-movement-kevin-powell-feat1031PMStoryLink&linkId=18107556

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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Aw FUCK Kevin Powell. He’s a washed up has-been looking for attention. IDGAF about him or his opinions, and neither should anyone else.

Selling out, he likes that shit.

At least he’ll get some interviews and face time on CNN now.

Any man who directs other men to be more vulnerable can eat a steaming hot bowl of dicks.

gregg
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gregg
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@yareally Looks vs Game. WE can see what results can be achieved by both – for example Paul Janka. His whole “GAME” consists of walking in the street and askng pretty chicks in clear terms if they want to fuck him. Short, clear, to the point. Without any preselection, social proof, anything. His only value is his looks. He fucked how many of them? 200, 300…I do not know. We are talkinh about different leagues here when you compare guys with looks with guys with game and without looks. When you HAVE looks, good loooks, WOMEN pursue you. You are… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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Forge the Sky
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@gregg everyone seems to misunderstand YaReally on this point. He’s not saying looks don’t work; in fact, he stresses that they can work just fine practically every other comment. He’s stressing that it’s not a good plan to bank on them; as you experienced, they can fade with time, and then without game you’re left high and dry. Didn´t need anything just the willingness to go out, be near girls and TAKE/FUCK those that pursued me. Surely you see how much game that all includes? A lot of guys don’t have a fucking clue what to do even if a… Read more »

Andy
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Andy
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“I’m in love. This is the one, I just know it. I confess…it’s me.” @Cave Welcome to Team Awesome brother. “You will only continue to get increasing push-back the more you describe all alternative mindsets as “negative” and attempt to psychoanalyze as them engaging in some sort of masochistic self-punishment cycle.” This dude has his own blog and people are calling me a n00b? “To us this is simply amusing because you imagine you will gain some tremendous following when you clearly have no idea what moves men souls” @ADBG Speak for yourself man. @yaReally has single-handedly helped me to… Read more »

longgone
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longgone
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fleezer,

“yareally is giving away the keys to the kingdom and all people can do is whine and complain. he’ll fucking go through FRs with dudes for free and they still complain. what the fuck?”

Amazing. And then they want to argue about some silly detail….

hoellenhund2
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they’re saying “I need to get fucked, my hubby just doesn’t do it” “I know babe don’t worry about it getting a sugar daddy on the side was the best thing I ever did for my marriage you go grrrl”. Like, they’ll often drop the whole “lying about it” thing with their super close girlfriends. So how is their covert lying men’s fault? Well if we accept that to their BFFs they’ll be blatantly red pill honest, then we have to accept that they’re not INCAPABLE of being honest, it’s just that with their BFF cirumstances are such that they’re… Read more »

hoellenhund2
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As that is the only paragraph in that link that refers to men as clowns, I repeat my claim that that is Roosh’s assessment of himself and game-practiced men. That is not what he thinks women feel of the men who do these things.

Read the two paragraphs preceding that. He says it specifically that game-practiced men act like that because they’s the behavior that women positively respond to, which they do because they only view men as life accessories, completely optional sources of entertainment, amusement and distraction, akin to glittery skirts, soap opera writers and clowns.

hoellenhund2
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As that is the only paragraph in that link that refers to men as clowns, I repeat my claim that that is Roosh’s assessment of himself and game-practiced men. That is not what he thinks women feel of the men who do these things.

Read the two paragraphs preceding that. He says it specifically that game-practiced men act like that because they’s the behavior that women positively respond to, which they do because they only view men as life accessories, completely optional sources of entertainment, amusement and distraction, akin to glittery skirts, soap opera writers and clowns.

hoellenhund2
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I was the same when I found Heartiste, and YaReally. I thought I was just reading a bunch of “asshole tactics used by pick-up artists to bang unworthy sluts.” Cool story, except that’s not what I’m reading. What I’m reading are increasingly shrill exhortations directed at average betas by PUA promoters, encouragements to pretty much re-order their lives and invest their energy to play a game that has constantly diminishing returns due to the drop in average female quality, a game that is becoming increasingly harder due to various social factors like the popularity of smartphones among women, devices that… Read more »

hoellenhund2
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I was the same when I found Heartiste, and YaReally. I thought I was just reading a bunch of “asshole tactics used by pick-up artists to bang unworthy sluts.” Cool story, except that’s not what I’m reading. What I’m reading are increasingly shrill exhortations directed at average betas by PUA promoters, encouragements to pretty much re-order their lives and invest their energy to play a game that has constantly diminishing returns due to the drop in average female quality, a game that is becoming increasingly harder due to various social factors like the popularity of smartphones among women, devices that… Read more »

hoellenhund2
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Yep.

What’re you gonna do about it?

I’m pretty sure the minimum we can do is not lending further legitimacy to the overarching idea that got society in the current mess in the first place, namely that men, especially young men, cause all problems on a social and individual level as well. Opposing this ideology while accepting its central tenet is pure nonsense.

Roosh is a marketeer, not a visionary.

Marketeers can’t afford to be depressing and negative, can they?

hoellenhund2
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My social circle consists mostly of relatively Beta guys that do not have the capacity or wherewithal to invest their weekday nights in sarging and do not have an interest sleeping on blow-up mattresses in people’s closets. If that’s the price of Good Game, the price is too high, and if Good Game has become a requirement for decent treatment from women, then women have too much social, economic, and political power. You are suggesting to my Beta comrades that they simply have negative mindsets that women treat them like disposable shit. The price is actually even higher, at least… Read more »

teddj4g
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I highly doubt PUA can help those poor guys from YaReally’s post. I mean, you have to have hope and the will to improve before anything can start to work. And as HH pointed out above, those guys need to learn basic social skills before they have any hope of improving. They are probably going to try, fail spectacularly, and be worse off in the long run. Their issue isn’t a lack of knowledge about women, its a lack of knowledge about life in general. I honestly don’t have much advice for them. If PUA can help they should fucking… Read more »

hoellenhund2
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Exactly what are you talking about? Who said this? I was talking about introverts, I made no mention of anything pathological. Your words: These are men who stick to themselves, burned and/or conditioned to keep to themselves to the point that they now self-condition themselves into isolation. Most of the time, introverts disqualify a conversation with someone before it has ever begun. Worse, when they make attempts to be social, and find failure, they’ll often blame everything but themselves. Worse, these same men have self-convinced that every tiny failure is worth quitting over. These are antisocial pathologies that you accuse… Read more »

hoellenhund2
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That’s the final, fatal flaw of MGTOW, imo. MGTOW offers nothing to the ladies as a new standard of behavior, it simply says, “No, I won’t interact with you.”

So MGTOW is flawed because it doesn’t benefit women?

YaReally
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@Forge the Sky “He’s not saying looks don’t work; in fact, he stresses that they can work just fine practically every other comment. He’s stressing that it’s not a good plan to bank on them” The reason I stress it in practically every other comment is because I know even DOING THAT, nobody will read it and will still blindly miss my point because it’s such a personal hot-button issue to guys that they’re so emotionally invested in that the SECOND they read “looks don’t matter” they go haywire like a bull surrounded by red flags and it’s like “WELL… Read more »

hoellenhund2
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This thread is getting old, so this may not be seen, but just in case it does…

Words simply fail me.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/19/living/mens-movement-kevin-powell-feat/index.html?sr=fbCNN102015mens-movement-kevin-powell-feat1031PMStoryLink&linkId=18107556

Lol, what a fucking shithead. On the other hand, completely predictable nonsense. Stuff like this is why the only reason I occiasionally watch mainstream TV and read mainstream news sites is to amuse myself by taking another look at the pile of shit this culture has become.

rugby11ljh
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rugby11ljh
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@Rollo Tommasi “real change takes time and investment. Forever Alones of any stripe generally lack the social intelligence and the mental maturity to put in the kind of effort necessary to change their lives.” https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1V6pe2GFFsc Working on change learning new tactics to change others. http://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00G3L1C2K/ref=tmm_kin_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1445447094&sr=8-1 Men holding each other accountable is priceless. “but good Game isn’t about numbers, it’s about consistency.” I’m consistent in being uncomfortable. Growing in the darkness… Breaking through with light. @DragonFly “It’s amazing to me, that in realizing the problem, one can also shut out the possibility of any solutions outside of what makes them comfortable.”… Read more »

Dragonfly
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@Rugby… I was reflecting on IB’s ability to see there’s a problem, but her inability to entertain any solution that would be uncomfortable for her to admit would work. But I get what you’re saying…

theasdgamer
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@ Cave Clown http://therationalmale.com/2015/10/14/red-pill-parenting-part-ii/comment-page-5/#comment-123589 Those are all elements of Game, except looks. You can change your clothing, so that’s Game. I go to non-country places wearing boots and jeans, because it works for me. Boots are great for dancing and jeans always work. It’s also peacocking and that is Game, too. You can AMOG anybody, even ripped body builders. Me: “Awesome body, but you have to wonder…” She: “What?” Me: “Is he compensating for insecurity?” Me: “Is he compensating for a lack of confidence?” Me: “Does he play on an all boys’ team?” Me: “Is he a switch hitter?” You… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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Rollo on DeadBedrooms Fool me once, your fault. Fool me twice, my fault. And ironically most of the men in the DB forum still adamantly reject Red Pill truths. Yeah, it’s the old “is” vs. “ought”. She “ought” to be willing to give enthused pornstar quality action to a man who has been seriously betaized, because he’s still willing to try to sex her up even if she’s put on the pounds. Because equalitarian / sameness, most likely. A lot of men don’t want to give up the equalitarian myth, maybe because it has been drilled into them from a… Read more »

Luxocrat
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@Blaximus I say fvck Kevin Powell, too, based on knowing him from Queens College days up until now. He’s always been a pen hustler and whatever gets him the most notice he’ll write about. Might explain his failed political run: not enough true face time to pull that one off.

Matt
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Matt
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Halfway through reading this I was thinking about my kids, and how they will (and already do) view their stay at home mother, in contrast to how they’ll view me. I was angry, kind of sad, but mostly angry. Then I felt guilt. I felt guilty for never acknowledging my own father’s sacrifice for me and my brothers and Mom. In fact until I had kids, I always did almost the opposite. So I texted him and thanked him and let him know I understand now. So thank you.. I needed to acknowledge his hard work and sacrifice, but I… Read more »

Brian Jinks
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@Rollo I really appreciate this post its opened my eyes to a lot. I have an odd situation. I’m a 26 year old father to a 7 year old boy, a college student majoring in audiology with a minor in music theory. I’ve maintained the same full time job for 7 years and I’d like to think I have a pretty good head on my shoulders. My sons mother is the same age, a stay at home mom, hasn’t been officially “employed” since our son was a year old, no college education (no diploma but a GED) & still lives… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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@Brian Jinks “Any advice on how to not be affected by her actions? I’m pretty stern but when it comes to my child there’s a vulnerability that surfaces.” How often do you see your child Brian anyway you could spend time with him and create a sense of dread for your wife? Or create a male place for you and some buddies? Have you heard of The way of men by Jack Donavan? I play rugby to expose all the worst parts of myself an attempt to mold new better ways on dealing with uncomfortable situations. I don’t know yet… Read more »

Brian Jinks
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Brian Jinks
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@rugby11ljh we aren’t married. We were two young sex driven kids that slipped up at the age of 18. I have my son every other weekend so twice a month. Summer and holidays I have him more because he’s in school. I have him every other weekend because her new boyfriend has kids of his own and my son spends time with them when I don’t have him. But for some reason it’s a problem & I don’t do enough? It’s confusing & frustrating. I have a copy of rational male just started reading.

Roused
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Roused
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@Brian, Yo are lucky your kids are young. The older they get the less positive influence you can exert with children. It’s VERY difficult once they hit their teens. @SJF and others suggested to me reading The Way of Men by Jack Donovan. I am halfway through it, highly suggested and good reading. @SJF has sent me some nuggets that I copied into my journal notes which I refer to now and then when it’s needed. I’ve also gone back to some Rollo’s early blog posts to get more foundational info. DAMN GOOD STUFF! Find Rollo’s post from two weeks… Read more »

Brian Jinks
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Brian Jinks
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@Roused thanks I’ll be sure to search the book & read more post. I’ve just recently discovered the red pill a few months back I suppose now is the digesting process

ella
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ella
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A whole lot of whinging and are you on the drugs? There is no feminine conspiracy and if my father had been more around and kinder/beta when I was younger I would be better adjusted and more sane! I’d probably date more/better. You are so divorced from reality and enjoy your self pity.

MT
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MT
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I am a mother to 4 boys, soon to be 5. This was very informative, thank you. I have always encouraged “guy time” between my husband and boys. Your writing only affirms my position.

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