Red Pill Parenting – Part II

Father-Son1

What I’m about to detail here will be a revolutionary act; I’m going to give men some prescriptive advice on how I believe they should go about raising their children from a Red Pill perspective. As most of my readers know I do my best to provide observations and connect dots, from there I expect men (and women) to form their own takes on what I’m seeing and either challenge those observations or develop some actionable practice that best suits their own circumstances.

I’ll be breaking that protocol here, but the premise still applies; what I think might be universally applicable to raising and mentoring the next generation may need to be modified for what your experience and circumstances dictate.

That said, the very idea that I would inform or instruct men (and by association women) on how I think a healthier, more durable generation of men might be developed in a Red Pill awareness is tantamount to being a hate crime today. My suggesting that boys and girls would benefit greatly from a Red Pill aware father is a frightening, seditionary act in a feminine-primary social order.

As things stand on a societal level now, just the mention of Red Pill truths in casual conversation will engender either ridicule or hostility. As Red Pill awareness spreads it will be considered subversive, particularly in a social order founded on the Feminine Imperative and feminine-primary social prioritization.

I don’t have too much positive to say about Roosh these days, but one thing I had to agree with was his recent assessment of how it’s necessary for men to meet in secret gatherings and maintain (as best as possible) a state of constant anonymity if they wish to discuss anything counter to feminine-primary social doctrine. Main stream media in feminine-primary society will characterize this need for anonymity as indicative of cowardice or a lack of conviction; bitter men just contenting themselves in their private anger and poisoning the minds of whomever will listen to them.

They need this characterization for now because men have something to lose. They fear having their bread taken away from them – the same bread that feminine-primary society expects men to provide the very women who would use it to extort a desired complacency from men. Cowardice is rooted in the fear of having something to lose. Once men become largely indifferent to that bread being forthcoming, that’s either when they snap, or that’s when they start a revolution.

ScribblerG (a.k.a. Glenn) had a good reminder for men in the last thread:

Being a dad isn’t all that great in many ways these days. At best it’s mostly thankless, but for most men they are fathering into a culture that denigrates them, laughs at them and is hagiographic of motherhood. If you think this won’t effect how your children see you as a father, you are fucking kidding yourself.

I used to ride the train back and forth to the city – leaving my home at 6:30 in the morning and returning at 7:30 or later, wondering if my daughter would ever realize all I sacrificed to provide for her and her mom? I’d wonder if she’d ever get that I sacrificed being as close to her as her mother is to her for her wellbeing? That her closeness with her mom as a result of having a stay at home mom until she was 5 was a consequence of my efforts, not her Mom’s?

Guess what – nobody wants to hear it. Nobody gives a shit what sacrifices you make to be a good father and provider – it’s all about Mom. It’s all about the kids. Dad’s are at best seen as second best Moms most of the time. And even when we are “in charge”, we can be dismissed as superfluous in myriad ways.

Many men adapt by becoming second mothers and wives in the household – and the entire culture encourages this. Try being a traditional male at parent teacher night or at the pre-school or even the Boy Scout troop…Fatherhood and a family is not what it once was either. Trust me, learn from my experience. Your kids will very likely not appreciate all you’ve done for them.

Of course, I excuse all the fundo-christian-demi-god-uber-alpha-ripped-11 inch cock-men of steel™ here from this commentary. For you guys, it’s 1956 and your life is like Wally and the Beav…

Just like men subscribe to two sets of books – old and new social rule sets that contradict the other – I think our ideas of marriage fall into this same contradiction. When marriage was a social contract and not so much a legal one involving the state, the old set of books applied well to that institution. This old set of rules about marriage and what men could expect from that largely socially-enforced institution worked well and in a complementary paradigm. From the Little House on the Prairie days up to the post-war era, the first set of books worked well with regard to marriage and fatherhood.

After the sexual revolution, the second set of books took social preeminence. Optimizing Hypergamy and all of the social and legal paradigms that make it the foundation of our present social order took priority. Yet, both men and women still cling to the old order, the first set of rules when it comes to a man’s role as a husband and a father, and simultaneously expect him to adopt and promote the feminine-primary interests of the new feminine-primary order.

Fathers are expected to follow the edicts of conventional masculinity with regards to their provisioning for a family, but are also expected to adopt, embrace and internalize their popularized role of being superfluous, ridiculous or even angry and abusively resistant to the second set of rules.

In other words, the expectation is that he should  be happy in his sacrificial role of provider, happy in his lack of appreciation for it or his presence, and happy to have the ‘village’ of society raise his children into the next crop of confused, frustrated adults while he’s doing it. He should be happy in his presence being devalued, but be held responsible for his lack of presence that his sacrifices demands.

Oh, and he should also feel a sense of smug pride when he see another man being pilloried for the same lack of his superfluous presence in his family’s life.

Raising Kids

I’m sure all of this sounds like a bridge too far for most men. Yes, the prospect of becoming a father is depressing, and I can see how these truths would make the average man despondent about becoming a new parent. However, I feel it’s incumbent upon me that I’m honest with men about what they’re up against before I advocate how to be a Red Pill aware father.

You will never be appreciated for your sacrifices, and certainly not while you’re making them. Your presence is only as superfluous as you allow it to be. While you will never be appreciated for it in any measurable sense, you will be liable for it, so my advice is to make the most of it in a Red Pill respect. Your reward, your motivation, for being a Red Pill parent and a positively masculine example in your kids’ lives needs to come from inside yourself because it will never be rewarded by a feminine-primary social order. If you don’t think you will ever find being a parent intrinsically rewarding, get a vasectomy now because it will never be extrinsically rewarding.

Understand now, the Feminine Imperative wants you to be despondent about your role.

Understand this, your presence, your influence, will only be as valuable or as appreciated as you are willing to make it to yourself. Your Red Pill aware influence in your kids’ lives needs to matter to you first, because it will never be appreciated in your time, and in fact will be actively, hostilely, be resisted by a world saturated in feminine-primacy.

Being a mother and birthing a child is a constantly lauded position today. By virtue of being a mother, women are rewarded and respected in society. Men must add fatherhood to their burden of performance just to avoid the societal default of being vilified.

The Feminine Imperative wants you to give up and allow the ‘village’ to raise your sons and daughters to perpetuate the cycle of the second set of rules. It wants you to feel superfluous; the Feminine Imperative’s maintenance relies on you feeling worthless. The reason men commit suicide at four times the rate of women is due exactly to this sense of male-worthlessness cultivated by the Feminine Imperative.

In Preventive Medicine I detail part of our present feminine-primary conditioning and how the imperative raises boys to be Betas and girls to be caricatures of Strong Independent Women®. Part of this was based on the essay Teach Your Children Well and the early ages at which this begins. The first, most primary truth you need to accept as a father is that if you don’t teach your children Red Pill truths there is an entire western(izing) world that is already established to raise them in your absence.

‘The Village’ will raise your kids if you don’t. You will be resisted, you will be ridiculed, you will be accused of every thought-crime to the point of being dragged away to jail in your imparting Red Pill awareness (in the future I expect it to be equated with child abuse). The Village will teach your boys from the most impressionable ages (5 years old) to loath their maleness, to feel shame for being less perfect than girls and to want to remake their gender-identity more like girls.

The Village will raise your daughters to perpetuate the same cycle that devalues conventional masculinity, the same cycle that considers men’s presence as superfluous and their sacrifices as granted expectations. It will raise your daughters to over-inflate their sense of worth with unearned confidence at the expense of boys as their foils. It will teach them to openly embrace Hypergamy as their highest authority and to disrespect anything resembling masculinity as more than some silly anachronism.

The good news is that for all of these efforts in social engineering, the Feminine Imperative is still confounded by basic biology and the psychological firmware evolved into us over millennia. That basic root reality is your greatest advantage as a father.

Raising Boys

I’m often asked when I believe would be the best time to introduce a boy to the Red Pill. A lot of guys with teenage sons want to hand them a copy of The Rational Male before they hit 18, or maybe when they’re 15, some even say 12 is really a good time. While it’s flattering for me to hear men tell me how they gave their teenage sons a copy of my book, I have to think that this is too late.

I’ve been a father to a teenage daughter for a while now and in my 20’s I was a mentor (big brother figure) to a young man I watched grow from a 10 year old boy to a 30’s man today. One thing I’ve learned from dealing with kids as I have is that the Feminine Imperative conditions children from the moment they can understand what’s playing on a TV or in a movie. By the time that kid is 10 they already have the ideological conditioning that came from a decade of meme’s and messaging taught to them by schools, Disney, Nickelodeon, popular music, feminine-primary parenting from their friends parents, even your own extended family members.

By the time that kid is 10 they’ve already internalized the stereotypes and social conditioning of the Blue Pill and they will start parroting these memes and behaving and believing in accordance with that conditioning. By the time they are in their tweens and beginning to socially interact with the opposite sex, the Blue Pill feminine-primary conditioning will be evident to any man with a Red Pill lens to hear and see it. That Blue Pill internalized ideology will seem natural and logical to them even though they couldn’t tell you how they came to their formative beliefs.

The time to start exemplifying Red Pill awareness in a parental capacity is before you even have kids. As I detailed in the first of these posts, an internalized Game that results from strong Red Pill awareness and a positive, dominant Frame control are imperative before you even consider monogamy. That Frame becomes the foundation for your parenting when your children come along.

I realize this isn’t exactly helpful for men who came to Red Pill awareness after their kids were in their teens, but it needs to be addressed for men considering becoming a father. Ideally you want to impart that same Red Pill awareness during a boy’s formative years. Children completely lack the capacity for abstract thought until their brains fully form and they learn to develop it. The age of 5 is the time when kids are most impressionable and learn the most, but they do so by watching behavior. So it’s imperative for a Red Pill father to demonstrate positive, conventional masculinity during these years.

Include your son in male-space, where only men are allowed to participate. Even if all he does is sit and play, it’s important for him to understand male tribalism. Eventually, as he gets older, he’ll feel more a part of that collective. In a feminine-primary world that is bent on his devaluation as a male human it’s important for him to feel valued in male-space and to institute his own male-space as he gets older.

Within this male-space your son needs to learn about his eventual burden of performance.I’d also advise you institute some kind of rite of passage for him from being a boy to being a man. There needs to be a delineation point at which his manhood is marked. This is important because it not only teaches him to value his masculinity, but also to accept the responsibilities of his burden of performance.

Most Beta men are uncomfortable even calling themselves ‘men’, so the earlier a kid understands this the better he is in accepting his manhood. The Feminine Imperative is all too ready to teach him his masculinity is a mask he wears; something he puts on and not the ‘real’ him. He needs to proudly reject this notion that his masculinity is a show.

He needs to learn that men and women are different and only deserving of earned respect, not a default respect granted to the female sex. Eventually he needs to learn to accept his own dominance and mastery in a world that will tell him his sex is a scourge on society.

Your presence in his life is an absolute necessity if you are to thwart the efforts of fem-centrism. I was asked about Red Pill fathering in my last Christian McQueen interview and my first inclination was to say do things with your son. Even if that’s playing chess, being the man, his model for masculinity is vitally important and to impart this to him you need to have a mutual purpose. As I’ve written before, women talk, men do. Men get together socially with a purpose, an action, a hobby, a sport, a creative endeavor, etc. and then they communicate while working towards that purpose.

Your son must learn this from a very early age, particularly when he’s likely to be forced into feminine-primary social structures and conditioned to communicate like girls do in school as well as in popular media. One of the tragedies of our age is a generation of Blue Pill men raising their sons to adopt feminine-primary communication preferences because they themselves had no experience with conventional masculinity. They can’t teach what they don’t understand.

Demonstrate, do not explicate is true of dealing with women, but it is also an imperative of Red Pill parenting. Your son (and daughter) needs to see his mother’s deference to your dominant Frame and beneficent authority. He needs to understand on a rudimentary level that his mother responds to your positively masculine Frame. Again this is imperative since your kids will see a much different narrative being displayed in popular culture and their schooling.

Show him how a man presents himself, how a man reacts to a threat, how a man commands a dog, how a man interacts with, and helps, other men he values. Do not think that you’ll start teaching him Red Pill awareness when he’s old enough to understand it. By then it’s too late, he’s resistant to it and thinks his Beta Game is more appropriate. Your son will follow your lead, but that must start from day one, not age 12. I have a good friend now who’s 16 year old son is literally following the same path his Beta father; he’s moved in with his estranged ex wife because he was closer to his ONEitis girlfriend. Now she’s bailed on him and he’s stuck with his neurotic mother.

The consequences of a Blue Pill conditioned mindset also start early. I’ve seen 10 year old boys despondent over not having a girlfriend. I’ve counseled a girl who’s former teenage boyfriend stabbed and killed her new boyfriend 32 times because she was his ONE. They get ONEitis because they are taught to be predisposed to it.

As your son moves into his teenage years that connection you began in his formative years should strengthen. You can begin to introduce him to Red Pill awareness, but in all likelihood you’ll notice him using his own Red Pill lens when it comes to dealing with girls. His grasping the fundaments of women’s dualistic sexual strategy, Hypergamy and how this will be used against him in the future is something imperative that he learns later.

This is the time to reinforce that Red Pill sensitivity and capitalize on his own awareness by introducing him to Red Pill ideas he wasn’t aware of. Bluntly, overtly declaring Red Pill truths might make sense to you, but plucking out bits of his own Red Pill observations and expanding on them in his teen years will probably be received better and more naturally.

One thing I know about teenage boys and girls is that if you try to tell them something profound they roll their eyes and blow you off, but if you wait for the right moment to let them come to that thing you want them to learn on their own then they’re receptive to it. Your demonstrating Red Pill awareness doesn’t stop when they’re teens.

Raising Girls

Much of what I’ve outlined for raising boys would cross over into raising a daughter, however there are some differences in approach. Exemplifying a Red Pill ideal, and demonstrations of positive, dominantly masculine Frame control are still the highest priority, but more so is the modeled behavior of the girl’s mother toward you and that Frame. If your wife resists, ridicules or mocks your Frame, this is the lesson your daughter will be taught about masculinity. You must model her perceptions of masculinity while your wife models the aspects of femininity – for better or worse.

A lot of how you approach raising a daughter can be based on your Red Pill understanding of how to deal with women, and based on much of the same basic gender-complementary foundations. The same Game principles you would use with women are actually founded on behavior sets that little girls learn and enjoy while they’re growing up. Amused Mastery is a prime example of this.

You will notice that root level Hypergamy manifests itself in girls at a very young age. In Warren Farrell’s book, Why Men Are The Way They Are he notes that girls as young as 7 already have a a definition of the (celebrity) “boys they’d like to kiss and the boys they’d like to marry.” No doubt girls’ acculturation influences their preferences, but the Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks archetypes are part of their mental firmware.

As a father, your primary role will be one of modeling the provider security seeking aspect of the Hypergamous equation. While that comfort and control is necessary it tends to be a trap for most Betas. The challenge most Beta fathers fail at is embracing and owning the very necessary Alpha / Dominant role that makes up the other side of that equation.

The challenge is exemplifying Amused Mastery with your daughter, but in such a way that it balances Alpha dominance and control with rapport, security and comfort. In my post Myth of the Good Guy I make the case that adult women don’t really look for this balance in the same man. Alphas are for fucking, Betas are for long term security, and men who think they can embody both are neither sought after nor really believable. The root of this AF/BB mental separation of Hypergamous purpose-specific men can be traced back to the impression of masculinity that woman’s father set for her in her formative years.

Lean too far toward Alpha dominance and you become the asshole abuser who domineered poor mom while she was growing up. Lean too far to the Beta, permissive, passive and feminine side of the spectrum and the future men in her life will be colored by your deferring to the feminine as authority – thus placing her in the role of having to create the security she never expects men to have a real command of.

The challenge of raising a boy is modeling and exemplifying the positive, dominant masculine role you want him to boldly embrace in spite of the same fem-centric world arrayed against yourself. The challenge of raising a girl is embodying the dominant masculine man you will eventually be proud to call your son in law. Your daughter needs to be able to identify that guy by comparing him to the masculine role you set for her.

Most contemporary men (that is to say 80%+ Beta men) are very uncomfortable in asserting dominance with their daughters for fear of being perceived as misogynists according to their feminine-centric acculturation. The zeitgeist of this era’s approach to fathers parenting girls is one of walking on eggshells around their little princesses. The fear is one of avoiding instilling a crushing of their independence or limiting their future opportunities by being more permissive with girls. The gender-correct hope is that in doing so they’ll all go on to be the future doctors and scientists society needs, but that permissiveness and coddling does them no favors in the long run.

If you were uncomfortable experimenting with Red Pill concepts while you were single, you’ll be even more so in raising a daughter. The most important impression you need to leave her with is that men and women are different, but complementary to the other. She needs to know that your masculine dominance is beneficial to both her and her mother, and your personal mastery of you conditions and environment as an aid to her and the family. She needs to understand that girls and women are, sometimes, excluded from male-spaces, particularly if you also have a son. In fact it’s boon if you have a son to teach while you bring up a daughter as she’ll see his upbringing as a model for positive masculinity.

 

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Blaximus
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Hmmmm…. I need clarification. Rollo said- You can be caring, supportive, nurturing, etc. in an Alpha context. I forget who it was, but there was a comment on one of the previous posts about a father who forced his young son to climb over some rocks on a jetty to get to him so they could fish. He seemed like an uncaring asshole, but the boy learned he could do something he didn’t think he could do because that Alpha (?) father insisted he do it. I agree. lh said- Yes Rollo, but from my own experience overpowering the mother,… Read more »

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@NBTM – Don’t be obtuse – I mean respect as well. Appreciation is perhaps the wrong word but that is what I mean. I don’t expect to be thrown a parade, just don’t shit down my throat, yeah? My daughter became incredibly denigrating and vicious to me, despite always having been there for her and spending approx 400k providing for her. When I asked her if the fact that I did my best to be there and spent all that money on her meant she owed me some respect she said, “No, it doesn’t.”. Let’s not get stuck down a… Read more »

bnon
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You need to address if or how you let the woman in to your parenting mindset.
Let’s assume your frame is as tight as it can be.
Do you speak with the women about setting examples (play along with your idea of parenting, if you will) or do your fully rely on your capabilities to play both the woman and the child covertly?

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@Scribblerg, that’s sad about your daughter doing that. She’ll probably have an unsatisfying marriage.

I’ve noticed in my strong-willed, stubborn 6-year-old daughter that she doesn’t accept/want as much affection/hugs from me as my son does, even though we’re real close and have a great relationship. Reminds me of her mother, minus the great relationship.

Fred Flange, dancing fuel
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I alluded to “duty” as what one owes to the being you have sired. That’s it. As opposed to whatever-the-fuck concepts of “duty” Society, or the FI, or Churchians, or the Chairman Mao Anarcho-syndicalist commune demand of us. Fuck that shite. That said, the duty only goes so far. When they turn on you, your duty is discharged, and from that point they are on their own. Easy to say, hard to accept or comprehend. Can take years, maybe never, it’s a real thing, no snark or sarc. I’ve been front row and center, seen it, thus far avoided it… Read more »

IAS
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I thought I didn’t have much to contribute to the comments this time as I don’t have (nor want) kids. But the topic of moms shit testing came up. Yes, yes they do. I have this one stuck in my mind from around 15 years ago – my mom shit test my (older) brother with something along the lines of “you should study more, your brother [me] has better grades than you”. I was in the room doing something else and found it pretty offensive, so I intervened “I’m not a weapon to be thrown at my own brother”. I’m… Read more »

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This past Monday I took the family pumpkin picking at a farm/general store about 30 miles from home. It’s kind of a routine thing that starts this time of year. Wife and daughters pick their pumpkins and I get fresh apples from the orchard. In clearings within the pumpkin patches, there are old tractors and an early 60’s pickup truck staged for pictures and for kids to play on. Well, there was a group of boys playing in the bed of the pickup with about 8 or 9 moms standing nearby mostly gazing into their cell phones. Oddly, there were… Read more »

newlyaloof
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@IAS, mom’s number one shit test:

“You’re SO much like your father, do you know that!”

P.S. Anybody wanted to give their son a Cliff’s Notes shortcut on how men are made to look the fool in a FI society, just do a YouTube search for “male bashing commercials” and check out the first one listed with 21 commercial examples compiled into one play list.

scribblerg
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@Fred – Amen, brother. The Red Pill helped me be okay with it. I am not even angry at my daughter anymore. She was alienated from me by her mom and stepdad (now ex-stepdad) and this is the consequence. But I won’t be shit on. Not after all I did. It took a long time to get there…And a lot of pain and suffering.

Andy
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“Perhaps all you “uber alpha 10 inch cocked ripped fundo christian men of steel™” can give without getting forever, but this mere mortal cannot.”

I don’t fault anyone for demanding respect from someone you sacrificed for. I can see that appreciation might come later or not at all, but there’s no way you should settle for being disrespected. IMO

redlight
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I could honestly write a book based on Red Pill parenting (no plans yet, sorry)

You (best) or somebody needs to write the book on RP LTR/marriage/parenting which would include recent topics here such as vetting and parenting. On r/asktrp a father with a 3 year old was asking for advice on his relationship with his wife. He was told that he needed to practice “bitch management”, which he took to mean to have shouting matches before storming out of the house.

ETA
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It is fascinating how you Rollo are teaching American Men what is actually common knowledge and a lifestyle in more traditional societies. I am originally from Albania. And everything you’re talking about is what men naturally are, over there. My culture embraces gender roles and the complementary nature of those roles. Men proudly state they are Men for their manly attributes, and so do women. Society has social conventions that support and strengthen both masculinity and femininity. The burden of performance is part of our identity, we know what we have to do and we do it. In return we… Read more »

Jeremy
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@ETA

Something Rollo hasn’t covered much is that women too, have some burden of performance in a complementary type of relationship. They hold the burden of morality…

That is a great way to put that, and it says a lot about why traditional American values, the traditional morality of America is simply nonexistent nowadays. Western women have abandoned that burden, declaring it unfit for them.

Imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth if most men suddenly decided that their bowling/golf/fishing with friends was more important than working hard to keep up civilization. That’s effectively what women in the west have done.

CaveClown
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Not only have women given up any semblance of burden of performance or responsibility, but they actively take pride in having done so.

benfromtexas
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@Jeremy
I agree. Women have been indoctrinated to be shit. You can get one to take her panties off, but God forbid she fixes a man some fried okra. They get it from the propaganda and their family(usually there mothers).

CaveClown
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Fried okra?
Your southern is showing again lol

Happy Survivor
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D@mn, Rollo…excellent!

Blaximus
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Andy- any time you have to overtly demand anything from wife or kids you are on a path of losing.

enriquesufi@gmail.com
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Rollo, as a father (who went through the Family Law wars and remarried, luckily, a RP aware Latin American woman, kids from both sets of adventures)…all I can say is…I teared up reading this. Brother, you will go down in AmericanaHistoria as a nearly Cicero-like logician, orator of truth (via internet) and historian of our culture. You are a national treasure, and I mean that. You are the functional equivalent to the earliest (often quietest and sometimes unheralded), sincere Civil Rights advocates. In the future, men…PEOPLE, will look back upon the corpus of your work and study it, admire it… Read more »

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“I think, with all things, men need to begin an endeavor with the ending in mind.” children born today will come of age in a centrally-planned world. in many ways it’s already here. raising them to be red pill aware in a time when reality will be a boot stepping on the human face is a solid goal to shoot for. No man, group of men or supercomputer algorithm can see the ending, but the .1% are on their way to owning all of it and they will not give up without a fight to the death. Where will humanity’s… Read more »

Happy Survivor
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@Jeremy

Imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth if most men suddenly decided that their bowling/golf/fishing with friends was more important than working hard to keep up civilization. That’s effectively what women in the west have done.

Again…excellent!

agent p
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Mothers shit testing? 100% absofuckinglutely. My Dad is pretty Beta in a lot of ways would tolerate a lot of her bullshit. So she would let shit roll downhill to my brother and I. Her narcissistic tendencies would be all aflame as she would triangulate and shit test all day long. It went into overdrive when I got married, for a while there I got some soft shit testing from both mothers. But when baby number one came along, I put my foot down with both Mothers and set up some hard boundaries. “You respect me, you respect my marriage,… Read more »

agent p
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@fleezer, it’s funny you mention inseminating as many women as you can.

I have my own squad, they are mine, they are working well, but I often wonder if it would serve my prime directive, e.g. to propagate my genes, if I were to donate sperm to a bank.

On the one hand I can get more copies out there, on the other hand I hate to give some single lesbian mommy any agency within the FI by offering high quality baby batter for hire.

I’m so good, why wouldn’t I want more of me?

Thoughts?

benfromtexas
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That’s the sad truth.

scribblerg
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@ETA – Keep reading, start with the links at the top that take you through the best of year one etc and keep ploughing through and get back to us…

bob bitchin
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Great essay rollo. I’m pretty much speechless. To all the guys who commented: thanks. Fantastic stuff.

Fred Flange, dancing fuel
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I have descanted on this 1000x but I would not trust sperm banks or their promises of anonymity. Oh they mean it. They’ll defend it if sued. Their business model goes to shit if donors can’t stay hidden. But the clinics could lose. Or the laws could change and their archives could be forced open. They have in some countries and now donor info is available so you risk being hit up for however many sproglets your jizz has germinated. Your kids, your problem, hilarity ensues. See the Oprah story where a bunch of women used one dude’s Aryan-by-choice sperm… Read more »

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@agent p

If your DNA is all you want to pass on to the next generation, you’ll miss out on all the satisfaction Rollo described in seeing his daughter argue his own points for him in front of fem-centric-indoctrinated girls. And you may end up contributing to single-motherhood.

Blaximus
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Since discovering the manosphere, I have been absolutely fascinated by the discussions concerning ” dna ” and passing on ” genetic codes ‘ or whatever. It’s a large part of multiple discussions. Jeremy is more in line with my line of thought. I’ve never given any deep thought to ” passing on my dna ” or inseminating as many women as possible. In fact, my goal was not to inseminate large numbers of women. …but some of them were asking for it. Lol. Unless your talking about cloning yourself, there will be another set of dna and chromosomes involved. Important… Read more »

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should I expect appreciation for my performance?

because I don’t.

rather, what I expect is that she’ll have the humility to know when she has a good thing going and the intelligence to stay out of the way. To not interfere.

I wouldn’t expect appreciation from my kids either.

what I expect from my kids is them accepting the burden of their own performance.

if they accept that then my job as a father is done.

expecting appreciation seems like a cop out and an attempt to get out of the burden of performance.

CaveClown
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expecting appreciation seems like search for validation.

seems like that validation should come internally.

raising a child to be better than the mother or the father just as I am better than my father.

leaving the next generation better than the generation before it is a Legacy I can be proud of, no appreciation required

Jeremy
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I’m not trying to say that any individual DNA is meaningless, Blaximus. Obviously, getting cuckolded sucks. But I think it sucks because your time & body sacrifice in raising something that wasn’t your own cannot be undone. Realistically a man is fertile long into his old age, so if a woman cuckolds you, she has not excluded you from reproducing your own DNA. You still have a shot at passing on DNA. The injustice in cuckoldry is that you were sacrificing for a lie, a deception. I’m just wondering, I think like you are, if there isn’t much more satisfaction… Read more »

lh
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Blaximus:

Dominating the mother is a key experience? Please elaborate. I’m trying to understand your pov, even if I disagree.

The difference is: do you do what pleases your mother to get what you want or does your mother please you to get something from you. The usual question of dominance.

Blaximus
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Jeremy,

” I’m just wondering, I think like you are, if there isn’t much more satisfaction in passing on your ideas and ways of seeing things to your kids. Ideas and viewpoints are actually more indestructable than people in many ways. Instilling these things into a child into their adulthood must feel as close to reproduction a man can feel.”

My thoughts precisely.

Culum Struan
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Heh, coincidentally, I’m listening to Cat Stevens sing “Father and Son” on Youtube as I read this post..making notes for future children and keeping all this in mind.

kfg
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The purpose of patriarchy was to not to just pass on DNA, but to pass on a legacy, to have not just descendants, but a dynasty.

If all you do is pass on your DNA, yes, you are indeed a Darwinian winner, but you are a cultural loser. You have children, but you have no “house.”

SJF
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@ Caveclown

I agree entirely on your assessment of appreciation. All I expect now is admiration and respect. If appreciation comes it is a secondary consideration from the wife and children.

And in regards to passing on DNA I always felt it came secondary to the primary goal of having a primary female partner. And after the children come then the responsibility for raising them commences.

Robert What?
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Robert What?
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This article really speaks to me. Unfortunately I came to the Red Pill when my son was in his early 20s. Up til then both of us were fully steeped in the FI. I was an expendable second class citizen from the day he was born, and I accepted it as the natural order of things. My question is, now that he is in his mid twenties, how do I reach him? He simply does not believe me when I try to drop red pill hints to him. Fortunately he is a good, hardworking kid, but I can easily see… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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Respect vs appreciation. I understand where you guys are coming from concerning appreciation. I assume you consider appreciation as a form of respect combined with a sense of thankfulness. I intended to draw a strong distinction between this concept of appreciation and a definition of appreciation involving some sort of celebration….to help clarify the freedom of autonomy and personal reliance for anyone needing that clarification. Sincere appreciation is manifested by actions not words. Words are empty and meaningless unless their meaning is substantially confirmed by action. Otherwise they are nothing more than lies, scams, or superficial imposters of reciprocation. Sincere… Read more »

scribblerg
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@CaveClown – Horseshit. All social relationships have a give and take to them – this is the nature of any relationship. You will and do expect respect from your children and don’t kid yourself or me about it. What the fuck is wrong with you people? Is this a LARPING festival where you all think you are ubermen in some fantasy game where you pretend you are above normal human emotions and need? Of course you want to at a minimum be treated with respect and some level of appreciation for being a good father. Why is this even arguable?… Read more »

ETA
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@scribblerg

I didn’t get it? Did I come across as BP, or just new to community?
In that case,
I have both Rollo’s Books, done reading the second one. Still have to finish the first one.
I use RTM for high level knowledge, while for hands-on game I’m mostly on goodlookingloser.
I have gone through almost all 4 years best essays and have been following RTM for almost a year.

bluepillprofessor
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I made it to the first clause of the first post in this thread:

Maybe you should be prescriptive more often!!!

We would love more prescriptive analysis on marriage from you to use over at Married Red Pill.

Not Born This Morning
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“If you don’t think you will ever find being a parent intrinsically rewarding, get a vasectomy now because it will never be extrinsically rewarding” Being a man and being a great father is like being an artist or a musician. The best perform for the fulfillment of the performance itself, not for any external reward or recognition. This is why the best art and music is the result of personal commitment rather than personal concern. The artist ‘looses himself’ by initiating and focusing all energy into the creative process. Enjoyment is experienced in doing. This is why great performance is… Read more »

Blaximus
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It is true that social relationships should have a give and take component to them. Undeniable. What’s also true is that all men have emotions. Okay, I’ll climb on the psychiatrist couch for a few minutes…. My mother was not affectionate with me as a child. As far as ” affection ” from women goes, I was fortunate enough to have sisters, aunts, cousins and female friends who gave and showed me affection. Still, it made me look at my mom always and think, well wtf??? When I was younger, I just buried any feelings about the lack of affection… Read more »

keyser Soze
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I believe women’s appreciation towards her man, depends on the burden of performance. Whether it is the tingle appreciation, or the ATM appreciation factors. When I’m appreciated in a woman’s eyes -due to Tingles- she shows it by unlimited amount of BJs (no contract signed ). Daughters appreciation for Dads, comes in two forms ,1, how she saw her Mother treats her Dad .2, how much money dad gave her. After all, they are both little girls and they both love conditionally. My suggestion is, fathers should take over raising the boy when he is 12, why? It’s because when… Read more »

AGPursen
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great read and those who read all of it would agree i love your takebon red pill parenting however what would one do in the case of the love at first sight bitchy at last sight girlfriend/wife since she seems to be receptive at first only to realize it’s all deceptive in its entirety creating a huge thick wall against this red pill parenting

Striver
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OK, I need some help here. Probably a common area where a lot of guys like me get tripped up. Got my first post-divorce lay last weekend. It was time. Less than two months since the divorce. Turned down some other opportunities. This one was good enough. Got a phone number at an out of town event a couple of weeks ago. Was a fairly easy get. Apparently she had been eyeing me up. Texted her, asked her if she wanted to talk or anything. She invites me to a festival in her neck of the woods. I have kind… Read more »

ShanksNes (@ShanksNes)
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While, all this being true, what should young red pill men, who haven’t tied the knot do? This is great for people who already have children, but personally, i can’t ignore the elephant in the room – That marriage and long term commitment are simply a loosing proposition for a guy in the current circumstances. Most people who are doing so are doing so from a frame of desperation and neediness. Why would you want to marry her if you know, that her desire towards you depends on your capacity to emulate being a credit card? I’m not a father… Read more »

lh
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Rollo: “…there will always be a desire in men and women to characterize Alpha in terms of what best suits themselves, or in terms of what they think should best serve their concept of what a pro-social role for an Alpha should look like.” I’ll happily take take that hint and it surely is right and it should be considered by everyone here, especially when it comes to fighting for hierarchies in the comments. Alpha is a mindset, not a demographic. But I don’t think the tendency to define alpha as what suits oneself constitutes an intellectual fallacy. The therapeutic… Read more »

Andy
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“In case of the anti-social “useless badboy” I think the anti-social aspects have a lot to do with the badboy not even knowing what his strengths can be good for”

@lh

Hah, never thought of it that way. Brilliant. I think the other side of the coin is that “bad boy” has also come to mean any guy that puts himself first. Unfortunately.

Roused
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I was late to the game on this new post and it’s importance to my day yesterday, commented on the Vetting thread about a current parenting situation. http://therationalmale.com/2015/10/10/the-vetting-process/comment-page-6/#comment-123011 Rollo is right, you have to start early. Once the kids are older you’re pretty much fucked and it’s a never ending battle. I’m never one to give up, but the situation with my 20-year-old son is almost a no-win scenario. Rather than hear him parrot his mother’s shit I had to lay down the law. It sucks, really hurts but I cannot tolerate any further shit from him complaining about his… Read more »

Eon56
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It is essential that the mother does not undermine the father when raising boys as well. My father, despite his flaws, did well raising me. But as I came into my teens, my mother began the “do not be like your father” thing. And even before then would undermine his authority, in punishment for example. He was of course the designated enforcer. And she made sure I knew spankings were his idea, and when I would be grounded she would tell me she’d talk to him and shorten my sentence. And because he hated punishing me, he gave in to… Read more »

SD
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Insofar as fatherhood goes ,I’m thinking it’ll be another dead social tradition. Right up there with cassette mixtapes , public payphones and disco clubs. In openly matriarcial cultures such as the Chinese Mosuo male ancestry is literally irrelevant after conception. Girl likes boy, girl bangs boy, and she only sticks around when the feelings are good. Afterwards the association is dissolved. The women raise the kids communally, and who fathered whom becomes irrelevant. Since the Mosuo women control the tribal resources and internal political power , there’s no reason to interact with men for family purposes beyond sex and pregnancy.… Read more »

Andy
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@SD

I think you’re wrong man. Deep down women want fathers for their kids. And kids want dads. Fighting human nature is always a losing proposition.

Willy Wonka
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Before you crucify me,I know,I may be off topic.Just came across an article that further cements the series preventative medicine. Neely Steinberg (Last name sounds familiar.) wrote an article in defense of “nice guys” and justifying why she would like to “END UP” with a nice guy.Sure she’s had her fair share of jerks but that was just a twenties fling.

For those who still have a shred of hope here’s the link. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/neely-steinberg/women-dont-like-nice-guys_b_3267249.html

Let the bitter taste of the red pill swell in your mouth. Thats it……

Andy
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@SD

Maybe not “fathers” but serious masculine influences will always be needed no matter what society looks like. I feel bad for kids of single mothers like this because these days they most likely go through life with very little masculine influence.

agent p
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@roused Don’t give up, what I suspect you need to do is the hard thing and that is to let your son fail big time. Perhaps you have noticed that 9/10 men find the manosphere, RP etc after a massive relationship failure. Until there is a serious disruption in the Matrix for your son, e.g. he does everything the matrix told him he should to succeed with a girl, and then he still gets his heart ripped out. Until that happens he will be drip fed enough “success” to not be inclined to change his view of the world, his… Read more »

kfg
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agent p
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agent p
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@SD I see where you are coming from but respectfully disagree. Sure 90% of marriages or child bearing relationships may end up that way. But we all know here, are quite certain, that a “traditional” patriarchal relationship / family model works. It may end up being counter cultural, it may end up being rare but it works for everyone involved in it. That alone signals a competitive advantage for that family, for that son, for that daughter. I know @Rollo always kicks me and says, demonstrate, don’t explicate but I have to disagree with him in one regard. I did… Read more »

SD
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@Andy Remove the financial incentives, and most women would happily eject fathers from the household. In minority America women are economically incentivized to be single parents, and that’s exactly what we see in reality. Fatherhood is a construct built on a basic economic transaction . If a woman wants money/resources to raise her kids, she needs a father who will write the checks for the next 18 years because he is the exclusive resource available . He won’t sign for someone else’s kids, nor will he open his checkbook without a say in how the kids are raised. Some women… Read more »

CaveClown
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“@CaveClown – Horseshit. All social relationships have a give and take to them – this is the nature of any relationship. You will and do expect respect from your children and don’t kid yourself or me about it.” I had “overt” appreciation in mind with my comments. Of course I expect respect. I’m divorcing my wife because of lack of respect. “What the fuck is wrong with you people?Is this a LARPING festival where you all think you are ubermen in some fantasy game where you pretend you are above normal human emotions and need? Of course you want to… Read more »

Chump No More
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@lh “So everyone here should identify his “natural alphaness” and I think almost every man will have such aspects. What needs fixing and that’s why we are here is why these things didn’t prevail so far or to bring them to good use out of understanding them and their value. In when it comes to alpha masculinity we all know how this get’s shamed in society and many fall for perceiving these traits as weaknesses and not strengths. In case of the anti-social “useless badboy” I think the anti-social aspects have a lot to do with the badboy not even… Read more »

SJF
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@ Roused Hang in there man. Some things you cannot change. But have the courage to change the things you can. Most boys go through the phase your son is going through. He’s frustrated and lashing out. The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The next best time is now. Stick to your principles and your mission. But don’t resent your son for his current actions. He just doesn’t have the resources to break out of his rut. He will respect you in the future to not compromising your principles for excellence. Be as excellent as… Read more »

kobayashii1681
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@Rollo: “I got into this in the Male Space essay, but one reason there is such a determined push to get women into those male spaces is because the FI can’t afford to have men talk amongst themselves uninfluenced by the feminine. That influence pits men against each other and limits a solidarity that would threaten the control of feminine primacy.”

Apart from the hegemonic, war-profiteering, megalomaniac aspects, I can see why secret societies are necessary, for men! At whatever level….

Forge the Sky
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“We’re all born as natural alphas, it’s in our DNA. Then we get labelled as broken (by a fem-centered school system), drugged (for ADHD, wtf?!?), beat down, brainwashed, plugged in, and thrown on the treadmill. Very few of us are ‘Zion born’ and escape this fate. It often takes a traumatic event (infidelity, divorce rape, parental alienation, etc) to lodge the splinter in our mind’s eye. We search and eventually unplug, only to ‘wake up’ and find our frame atrophied from non-use. It was always there, we just never used it.” Hah, naturals are ‘Zion-born.’ Love it. It’s crazy how… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@Striver “Got my first post-divorce lay last weekend. It was time. Less than two months since the divorce. Turned down some other opportunities. This one was good enough. [….] “My statement and question would be that this is where a lot of guys like me get tripped up. Finally get the game to get some, then we stop or get overwhelmed, don’t have a good frame, and get the same crappy outcome. Because we start getting laid and then we quit working or don’t have game to go further. “So I’ve started doing better, but I’m starting to get into… Read more »

CaveClown
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Field Report if anyone wants to chime in. In line at a fast food restaurant in a town I’m only somewhat familiar with. HB6, 22yr old gets in line behind me. I make eye contact and smile at her, she returns the smile, says “hi” and then breaks eye contact and blushes. Timing was such that I had to order my food, and let her order, before I could say anything. Then I stood off to the side and waited for my order. She ordered, and I immediately waved her over to me. She stood to my side, not quite… Read more »

Chump No More
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‘The Village’… now there’s a movie metaphor! The town elders (the FI) brainwash & scare the bejeezus out of the young (boys) with the boogie-men (alpha / masculinity) to prevent them from finding the truth (the RP).

It’s everywhere, but only if open your eyes… “Can you see?!?”

BK
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BK
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Interesting article – young wife of hedge fund manager possibly using lies about violence to get a huge prenup bump
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3265253/I-goaded-Millionaire-hedge-fund-manager-midst-bitter-divorce-battle-told-police-grabbed-wife-s-hair-heated-argument-Christmas-Day-provoked.html

kfg
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“Hah, naturals are ‘Zion-born.’ Love it. It’s crazy how far we can take the Matrix metaphors. ” A lot of things have been attributed to me lately that I’m not at all sure I deserve credit for, but I believe that one might actually be mine, although I was talking about the difference between the naturally born MGHOW vs. MGTOW. “We’re all born as natural alphas, it’s in our DNA.” I’m not sure this is true at all. See the dweebs with “just punch me” face; they’re born that way. I think there’s a lot of epigenetic control over that,… Read more »

kfg
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‘The Village’… now there’s a movie metaphor! . . . It’s everywhere, but only if open your eyes… “Can you see?!?””

I saw the “surprise” ending from the trailer. I was hoping he’d end up surprising me by not doing the obvious, but nope.

SJF
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@Cave “She used as few words as possible. And that’s where I choked. I was worried about getting into “interview mode” like I have done in the past with girls that clam up but are interested. I talked a bit about traveling, and then told her it was a pleasure talking to her and ended the conversation.” You use as few words as possible unless you have some really good material and get her to open up with open ended questions. Or a few questions to ask her about what she thinks about something. An example not at all fitting… Read more »

Chump No More
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@kfg… “I’m not sure this is true at all. See the dweebs with “just punch me” face; they’re born that way. I think there’s a lot of epigenetic control over that, so the alpha DNA might well be there as well, but it isn’t expressed, the environment leaning toward giving deltas, and even gammas, more of an edge than in other times.” I hear ya, but it’s there. All boys are born to be their MPO as much as girls are born to be solipsistic… it’s in our DNA. What varies is its strength, resistance and resilience. My guess it’s… Read more »

CaveClown
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Sjf,

I do tend to talk about myself a bit, being a narcissist, it’s my favorite topic. (Only partially joking)

I asked a few questions about the almost car wreck. So I was on the right track, just got myself worked up over nothing. I fall into interview mode easily…boring.

Based off what she said and your advice I can now see about a million different ways I could of took that conversation.

Thanks man.

cheupez
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cheupez
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Thanks Rollo for this. Just an additional word of encouragement for boy fathers: We already have the boys on our team. They are not blank. The boys have it in them too. The way the girl knows who to kiss and who to marry when she is 7, so does the boy know when he is being handed the short end. Let us not forget the kids have something in them too. They have an inbuilt schema too. They have a responsibility, and God (or whatever) has equipped them with counter measures. The other day, my daughter was watching a… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@ Cave

Before I could say anything else she tells me a story about almost getting into a car wreck last week, and how that was exciting but not the right kind of excitement. I felt like this was her trying to come up with a story to prove she is exciting? But maybe she was just weird?

She’s just another girl. Wants emotional thrills. Reliving that was an emotional thrill for her. Just amp up her thrills.

CaveClown
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Asd, I choked when I decided to turn down the energy and avoid interview mode… I felt like I was overwhelming her. She was really really shy. So she didn’t say much, even her car story was only a few words and I thought she was going to have a panic attack. I’ve had plenty of chicks that didn’t say much because they didn’t like me, this was not that. No fidgety moves to get away or acting distracted. I’ve never had a girl that into me right off the bat. So her lack of talking but her high body… Read more »

dwellerman
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“Keep in mind that “it is about her”. Not about you.” Yep – agreed. I’ll throw a Field Report out here. Call it DMV Day Game. The CA Department of Motor Vehicles… every year: fees and registration, tests, fines, tickets, photos, ownership transfers, license renewals, fluorescent lights, stuffy air, long lines, slow process, boredom, nervousness, irritation… I drive into the parking lot of the local DMV and take a spot right next to another driver who’d pulled in at the same time. A cute blonde gets out, [I like blondes – heck I am one – if I still had… Read more »

John
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John
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I think I’m gonna get a vasectomy now.

lh
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lh
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and how that was exciting but not the right kind of excitement.

She invited you to excite her basically. And it should you give food for though she did this while you feel you aren’t exciting enough. They say building on your strengths is better than to eliminate your weaknesses. It may all be easier than you think.

SJF
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“I felt like I was overwhelming her. She was really really shy.”

“For such a cute girl in/on your own home turf, you really are delightfully shy. I’m the one that should be nervous. But I’m not”

Fred Flange, dancing fuel on the fire
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Fred Flange, dancing fuel on the fire
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How to triage someone into RP thinking? Dr. Fred’s Prescription: use . Don’t say Game, don’t say PUA. It’s evolutionary psychology. It’s evolutionary biology. There are biologically-driven and innate qualities that ALL men have and different ones ALL women have. They are hird-wired default natural traits which transcend cultures, continents, nations, religions. And oh yeah it transcends politics. Culture can influence those base default impulses, try to channel them, and can succeed somewhat. (It’s symbiotic). But it’s like trying to dam or redirect a stream: it will flow around, work around, go under, go over. Takes way way lots of… Read more »

Fred Flange, dancing fuel on the fire
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Fred Flange, dancing fuel on the fire
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Dr. Fred’s Prescription should read: “USE SCIENCE.” Got bleeped somehow.

CaveClown
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“She invited you to excite her basically. And it should you give food for though she did this while you feel you aren’t exciting enough. They say building on your strengths is better than to eliminate your weaknesses. It may all be easier than you think.” Yeah, I completely missed her invite. Damn. Seems obvious now. I bet if i had kept it going by asking open ended questions, stayed a little crazy with my energy level, and not let an awkward lull in the conversation affect me…I could of insta-dated her for lunch and then got her number. And… Read more »

Jeremy
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@Fred Flange How to triage someone into RP thinking? Dr. Fred’s Prescription: use . Don’t say Game, don’t say PUA. It’s evolutionary psychology. It’s evolutionary biology. There are biologically-driven and innate qualities that ALL men have and different ones ALL women have… I find the best is to make other people come up with questions of their own that they haven’t asked before. That’s not easy to do. Last weekend I was with two friends of mine since before finding the manosphere. They’re two metal-heads, a man and a woman, both married to different people. The guy comes from a… Read more »

CaveClown
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“For such a cute girl in/on your own home turf, you really are delightfully shy. I’m the one that should be nervous. But I’m not””

@sjf,

I like this! I felt like I stepped into her frame with the shyness thing. I reacted too much to it. She likely would of relaxed a bit with this, and I would still of been in frame.

Awesome.

@dwellerman, good stuff man, great mindset.

Forge the Sky
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“I choked when I decided to turn down the energy and avoid interview mode… I felt like I was overwhelming her. She was really really shy. So she didn’t say much, even her car story was only a few words and I thought she was going to have a panic attack. I’ve had plenty of chicks that didn’t say much because they didn’t like me, this was not that. No fidgety moves to get away or acting distracted. I’ve never had a girl that into me right off the bat. So her lack of talking but her high body language… Read more »

redlight
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redlight
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In Cave’s and Dweller’s FR I don’t see a lot of A2, which, by the magic of cut n’ paste, is:

A2: Female-to-Male Interest

In A2 phase, you should create attraction. Some pickup routine in this stage like:

1. DHV (not DMV form filling)

2. Storytelling (not listing places you’ve traveled)

3. AMOGing

4. Cocky & Funny

5. Push-and-Pull

On the FRs, while entertaining to describe the complete scene (such as “two crazy, meth addled old hippy-women who looked like lost scarecrows with frizzy, grey hair”) loses focus, but maybe that is part of the problem. The what-could-have-I-done-differently can be added too.

redlight
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(I see Forge and I have to coordinate our replies a little better)

Forge the Sky
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Sorry about the messed-up italics. You’ll be able to figure out what’s me and what’s Caveclown from the quotation marks at least razz

Forge the Sky
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@redlight

Heh, that’s some sychronicity!

Forge the Sky
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@Dwellerman you got a good frame there. Good field report too. But ya, I don’t see much qualifying going on there. Maybe it was in there, you just didn’t write about it. Also, keeping the attention on her isn’t crucial. You CAN do things that way, but you can also focus on yourself or go back and forth. Like redlight notes, telling a story (one that’s interesting and stimulates emotions) can work well. The key is to get them feeling. They can feel about their life, your life, or random facts about no-one, but they need to be feeling. Loading...

CaveClown
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Forge, Alright, I see where I went wrong. She qualified herself to me and I failed to reward. Makes sense. I’ve yet to study any of this, just shooting from the hip. I’ll have to read up on mystery method. Yareally sent me to rsd todd and owen too. I wasn’t interested in her story, you’re right. But I could of been if I slowed down to pay more attention to her. And yes she was weird. But I’m starting to realize that I might just be an actual asshole too. Not good. I really don’t hold any ill will… Read more »

redlight
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The fun thing about storytelling is it doesn’t have to be real. Cave glances at phone, looks concerned, and says “looks like the FBI is going to surround this place to arrest me, let’s get out of here”. “ARREST YOU?” “It’s just a clusterfuck of a misunderstanding, my lawyers will sort it all out tomorrow, I just prefer not to spend the night in jail” Now you would think that any sensible woman (especially a potential mother to your children) would excuse herself and run away. But her boring pedestrian life has now become exciting. She’s in a movie. Loading...

CaveClown
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“On the FRs, while entertaining to describe the complete scene (such as “two crazy, meth addled old hippy-women who looked like lost scarecrows with frizzy, grey hair”) loses focus, but maybe that is part of the problem.”

I attempted to keep my details low. I gave details that explained the flow of the interaction and the reason for my opener.

And yeah, I gotta work on the steps. I’ve never heard of A1-A3 until just now, lol

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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You know, maybe it’s a product of my horrendously abusive upbringing, but I’ve never been of the illusion that parents (either one) automatically deserve or should receive appreciation or even respect. From my perspective, that kid is stuck with you by no choice of their own. Their existence, never mind who they start it with or the station in life that entails, the experiences they will have that shape the person they become, all of these things are completely out of their control. Does a child automatically owe a “thank you” to a parent that births them in to poverty?… Read more »

Andy
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Andy
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“But I’m starting to realize that I might just be an actual asshole too. Not good.”

I tend to get along well with assholes for some reason.

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