Rise Above

I received this comment on my January 29, 2020 livestream of Rational Male 101:

I think Rollo is talking about an idea that I’ve read about before in Thomas Sowell’s famous book Conflict of Visions. One side of the spectrum says that humans are very animalistic despite their capability of rationalizing otherwise, and human nature must be constrained by laws and social processes (such as constraining hypergamy). The other side of the spectrum says that humans are entirely capable of overcoming their Darwinian natures through intentional decisionmaking and must be unconstrained in order to flourish. Everyone lies somewhere between the two. I assume most men here lean more toward a constrained vision.

Nature vs. Nurture is a constant theme in the Manosphere. Yes, it’s a constant theme throughout most natural sciences, but it’s a paradox that’s going to always pervade intersexual dynamics. And mostly because people’s belief sets are rooted more in one or the other. Personal responsibility versus biological determinism is an issue that defines what our perspectives are on a great many things; not just intersexual dynamics. This isn’t an issue of politics or even worldview. There are plenty of believers in our human capacity to rise above our personal circumstances and evolutionary dictates on both sides of the political spectrum. For every hardline Trad-Con espousing the virtues of the human spirit and freewill superseding our physical conditions there is a left-leaning humanist who’ll conveniently agree that humans aren’t beholden to what some inconvenient science says if it aligns with their belief set.

Most “old order” ideologies today are struggling with relevancy in what I called the age of “new order” thinking or our New Age of Enlightenment. This new order understanding is the result of the unprecedented deluge of information we now have access to in this millennium. Not only is it this new influx of data that’s challenging the old order ideologies, but also the accessibility to it that old order thinkers can no longer keep pace with.

The response to this influx of information requires us to parse it out like never before. In predictable human fashion most people will make a hard turn towards the old order dictates that used to be able to explain harsh truths to us adequately enough for us to move on to other things. Thus, we see the global Village return to an interest in old religions, shamanism, metaphysics and tribal superstitions (and a lot of Chick Crack) today. That’s not to say that some of these old order institutions never had merit. A lot of what new order data presents to us can be confirmed by old order beliefs and wisdom. What we used to take on faith can now be confirmed by new order information. But this is also problematic for old order believers. It’s never a comforting thought to be confronted with what you had thought was sublimely metaphysical actually being something that can, in fact, be quantified. Yes, your religion was correct about some things, but those things are no longer the magical articles of faith they once were.

But We’re Better Than That, Right?

The Nature vs. Nurture debate is really a polite proxy for the war between two perspectives – Determinism vs. Freewill. While questions of consciousness and personal philosophies are outside the scope of this blog, what is in scope is how these perspectives define the way we approach our understanding of innate mating strategies, long term relationships, forming families and raising children.

As I mentioned early, determinism feels wrong to both kinds of believers. When ever I debate the harsh realities of how Hypergamy works, not just for our species, but most of the animal kingdom, I’m invariably met with the question of whether or not Hypergamy is ‘Good or Evil’. There’s always a want to qualify what’s really a natural dynamic. Is a pack of wolves evil for bringing down a caribou to feed the pack in the dead of winter? It all depends on who you’re rooting for I guess.

The ‘sphere’s contemplating these scenarios are nothing new. Considering the moral implications of the uglier aspects of Hypergamy is just one easy example among many other naturalism vs. moralism dilemmas in Red Pill praxeology. Empiricists will explain the dynamic in the hope that knowing about it, and how it works, will lead to better predictive outcomes. Hypergamy works thusly X-Y-Z; now plan accordingly and build a better life upon that predictive model. Believers on the other hand will absorb this data and look for moral equivocation:

They believe that the goal of debate is to establish what is morally better, and what everyone should do. They argue about what is right.

The Believers vs. The Empiricists

On a recent video I did with Rich Cooper and Dr. Shawn Smith one point of debate was whether or not the idea of Hypergamy should be used as a “predictive framework” for understanding intersexual relationships. The topic of our discussion was the merits of Hypergamy in its expanded, robust, definition and whether it’s a reliable metric to compare people’s relationships (married and dating) against. As you might guess a lot of Red Pill awareness centers on Hypergamy; it’s why I continue to stress it even when my detractors lie about my interests. It’s really that important.

But as we we’re debating the ins and outs I posed another question to Dr. Smith, “If Hypergamy is not a reliable predictive framework for understanding intersexual relationships, then what is a better one?”

I wasn’t being facetious, nor was I trying to hit Shawn with a gotcha question; I genuinely wrote this question down in my preparatory notes for the show. If not Hypergamy, in its expanded definition, (that describes women’s innate mating strategy) then what is a good outline by which we might judge women’s (and men’s) motives, incentives and behaviors with respect to their mating strategies.

Do women even have mating strategies defined by their innate, evolved, natures? Or are their sexual, reproductive decisions purely an act of cognitive will, as defined by their socialization? If 100,000 years of human evolution didn’t shape women’s reproductive strategies, then what are we left with that explains the commonalities we see women using (with our new order data gathering) in their mate selection and breeding (or aborting) habits? Is it entirely freewill and personal choice? We’re certainly meant to believe it’s “her body, her choice” and the decisions are an extension of her cognitive will.

Yes, I get that it doesn’t have to be one or the other. The possibility exists that it’s both nature and nurture affecting women and men’s mating strategies – and certainly choice is involved in the outcome of those strategies. I’m more inclined to believe it’s both, or at least we want to believe our conscious decisions are what’s pulling the strings. I’ve been in all the livestream debates when we asked the question, “Do women have agency?” and if not then are we our Sister’s Keeper? The more moralistic a guy is usually the more he’s likely he is to include women’s lives to his list of masculine duties and personal responsibilities.

The underlying assumptions in all these accounts is “Aren’t we better than this?”

As reasonably rational, self-aware creatures, with what we presume is freewill and a liability of personal responsibility for the choices we make when exercising that freewill, then haven’t we evolved above all our base impulse? If not, then shouldn’t we have by now?

Every day I harp on about the fallacy of the Blank Slate that most old order thinkers can’t seem to disabuse themselves, but if we are in fact “above it all” then the fallacy of the Blank Slate, as well as the notion that we might ever be influenced by our evolved natures is all a moot point. If our conscious selves are in fact better than our evolved natures then the variables of evolution are rendered meaningless. All that matters is the self and developing our consciousness to rise above our conditions.

Our conscious minds are capable of overriding our innate natures. We can, sometimes do, kill ourselves by not eating. A fast or a hunger strike is something we can consciously do as an act of will. A sense of righteousness and virtue can get mixed into that conscious and our will supersedes our innate nature (we get hungry and need to eat or we die). It doesn’t change the operative physical state that our bodies need certain things. We often commit suicide as an act of will or the conscious act of our depressive emotional state. Again, will (however it’s defined) overrides our physical conditions, but how much of what we believe is our willpower is uninfluenced by the same physical conditions, environment, upbringing, socialization and personal circumstance that we hope to rise above?

Very soon, perhaps within my own lifetime, we will be able to genetically engineer humans. In 2018 a Chinese scientist broke codes of ethics to create the first gene-edited baby. The science, if not the technology, is already here. The possibility exists that human beings, through sheer force of will, can custom engineer our physical states to conform to what our ideologies would tell us is preferable. If you’ve ever seen the movie Gattaca you’ll understand the implications of this technology. It’s this author’s opinion that we are living in a time when the ideologies we subscribe to today will affect the ethics of what we engineer into the humanity of tomorrow.

Gattaca is science fiction, but the philosophical questions it poses are very real now. From a objective, humanist perspective this raises a lot of interesting questions. Should we engineer-out of humanity “diseases” like Down’s Syndrome? What about sickle cell anemia? If a gay gene is ever discovered (I don’t believe homosexuality is genetic), should we edit it out of humanity to ensure “normal” heterosexual human beings in future generations?

The Chinese scientist who broke the rules of ethics was reprimanded for his experimentation. “When the news broke, peers in China and abroad condemned him for manipulating life’s building blocks using a relatively untested gene-editing tool.” But why? Chinese official declared his experimentation illegal. It’s entirely possible that a new race of superior humans could be engineered to be better ‘adapted’ to live longer, be smarter, more immune to certain diseases, possibly eradicate some disease and make for a stronger human species. Why would it be wrong or unethical to strive for “perfection”?

Have we not elevated our will above our physical limitations? Or are we using our physical conditions as an implement of our will? We’ll find out soon, but our ideological bent and the ideas of what right and wrong is most certainly influenced and defined by the realities of our physical selves.

Rise of the New Order

This was a comment from Jack about the rise of the New Order:

Rollo, the digital age has ruined us. Culture and pop culture today move at an alarming rate, what was hip now won’t be in the next year or month, society has never moved this fast and as a result the new way is merely a day away from being the old way. The demon’s out of the ring now, no turning back, and there’s no real way to deal with the modern age.

If you are not born into greatness, or utilizing the vast knowledge of the net to surpass everyone and stay there, you get nothing. It’s now the same way with women, previously, our worlds were smaller and hypergamy wasn’t as out of control. There were checks and balances, God and church being two of them, shame was a motivator for keeping women in check as they don’t understand loyalty like men. Now, they have infinite access to all top men, with upwards access to all jobs, and no reprecussions for acting in their very best interests and base instincts at all times. This shrinks the dating pool dramatically to only a few desirable mates because they value themselves so highly. So, if you’re not a natural at flirting with women, or learned how to do it through you and the many other “red pill” men out there AND CAN KEEP THAT ON 24/7 WHILE DOING IT BETTER THAN EVERYBODY ELSE, you will get nothing or lose what you have.

It’s almost all risk no reward for modern men unless you’re alpha”, and even then you’re not safe. Women will always want more and better, so if you’re not constantly 100% on at all times, you lose. If Jeff Bezos and Johnny Depp aren’t safe despite their fame and fortune, what does that say for everybody else? It’s exasperating as a modern man, you have to be and do too much to compete on the global market, as a man younger than you I don’t know if you can understand how daunting it is to have to be everything all at once and it STILL not being enough. You can’t even stay established anymore, if you’re not constantly putting out content, you fall to nothing again and have to start from scratch.

Your competition as a red pilled man, are other men armed with this knowledge, and it will get harder as time goes on with more men are forced to adapt this way of thinking or give up entirely. The new system forces you to constantly adapt faster, and better than all of your peers, or die instantly. There is no rest, no reprieve, no time to catch your breath, either you constantly innovate and improve on the new or you simply don’t eat. I cannot understand how this can keep up when this new “enlightened” era leaves the majority of the male sex in the dumpster.

That being said, without men such as you or Dalrock, established constant fonts of content for this, the kind of thing men need to hear, there will be no direction for men in the coming years. Yes, someone might come along eventually to replace you and the groups you represent, the thought even, but the men like you are very much buoys and lighthouses to keep those of us drifting in the digital age’s ocean from sinking. Without that, we’re all absolutely lost. Without guys like you, it’ll be even harder to aggregate that information and even try to compete or establish relevance. So the destruction of Dalrock’s work means setting those of us who wish to live and fight for a better life back several years, which none of us can afford. Many of us have learned partly, or greatly from you and men like you, whether that’s connecting the dots or having the entire mind opened. So wether or not he wants to delete everything, his work must press on for every one of us who wants a chance to survive in this.

While I’m flattered to be considered one of the pioneers of understanding intersexual dynamics from Red Pill perspective, I can entirely relate with the sentiment of perpetual vigilance. “If [insert male celebrity] can’t make it in today’s sexual marketplace with today’s women then what hope does the average guy have?” is a common MGTOW refrain. I understand men’s desire to just throw in the towel and accept one’s sexless fate. We now live in a Global Sexual Marketplace. The old order rules for the localized sexual marketplace that the last 3 generations of men still expect to work for them today are a thing of the past. And this is only one symptom of the rapid expansion of technology and its effect on our cultural narratives.

For all the alarms we’d like to raise about humans’ genetically engineering future generations of humans, the effects of the meta-scale social engineering experiment that is gynocentrism are already here. Men have always formed adaptations to the realities of solving their reproductive problems, but never have a generation of men had to adapt to so rapidly a changing environment. And it’s only going to get more complex as we move forward.

Today’s men have few options available to them in our present state. Most of us will continue to keep pace and attempt to see the signs of ways to best advantage what comes at us in the sexual marketplace, and really life in general, until we can no longer keep up. Evolve or die. Keep pace with the trends and stay sharp enough to look ahead and leverage what you can based on an objective assessment of what human beings really are. Stay sharp until you no longer can. Hopefully, if you’ve wisely conserved and protected your resources during that time you’ll have some security until you die. If not, then you can expect to fall prey to the next generation of vultures who see your nest egg as their source of revenue.

Or you can give up. You can do just what’s necessary to survive in a system that passed you by and console yourself with complaining about how degenerate and unfair it is. And you’ll be right on both counts because that’s where you are. Old order thinking is very comforting, and it will be until there are no more old order thinkers – replaced by a succeeding generation of new order thinkers who themselves will be swept aside by new order thinkers.

More and more we’re going to see a return to the old order religions, metaphysics and tribalism as the generations that cannot keep pace with human advancement seek meaning and consolation. As a result we’ll also see a new virtue signaling and ego-investments in the power of the self, freewill and mindful consciousness. The Trad-Cons of today are already here and the more ‘spiritual-but-not-religious’ social justice adherents apply their own brand of magical thinking, but for the same reasons. The effect is the same – the retreat from competing in a globalizing system that, sooner or later, will outpace us all.

And like all other aspects of this rapid advancement, even this retreating demographic will be coopted and commercialized by savvy ‘players’ who are still keeping pace. Formalizing the retreaters, organizing them, catering to their idiosyncrasies, all will be big business for those who learn to sell consolation (if not hope) to those who think they’ll never keep up.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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wahoo Mcdaniels
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@Palma

“I’m talking about a position where the state and law has degenerated and is impotent in the face of the physical threats.”

They are out of fly-swatters but still have axes aplenty.

“In most of Europe, Mathematically, if things escalated that’s probably now. I don’t know about the US.”

It is the same here with different threats,the civil solution is segregation with martial law and communication infrastructure “failure”.

“In this instance women will need the protection of the surviving tribe (the one that is still alive).”

I believe we are edging into this territory and this is driving Hypergamy to new levels.

PalmaSailor
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@Wahoo

I’m with you on all your comments but struggling with this bit:

“I believe we are edging into this territory and this is driving Hypergamy to new levels.”

You’re implying that women are recognising a threat either consciously or subconsciously and are self preserving by clicking up the Hypergamy?

My general thought process was that Hypergamy found its own level, at the peak it could achieve..

With online dating there is certainly the appearance of unconstrained Hypergamy but I suspect very very few of the women with overflowing inboxes go on to consolidate on resource transfer for those hundreds and hundreds of prospects.

wahoo Mcdaniels
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“You’re implying that women are recognising a threat either consciously or subconsciously and are self preserving by clicking up the Hypergamy?”

Yes^ mainly subconsciously.

“My general thought process was that Hypergamy found its own level, at the peak it could achieve..”

I think it is the level and frequency necessary to survival in current conditions,just as they do dualistic mating strategy based on menstrual phase.

You even said it yourself, ” drawn to join the surviving tribe.”

wahoo Mcdaniels
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Alot has been said about open hypergamy or it being unleashed and we have all experienced this to a degree from one side or the other of a branch swinger. I am suggesting that a large part of this is instinctive and driven by civil and social unrest. This makes sense to me on the protection level and the provision level. I would also suggest that the same threats are responsible for some obeisity as well.

PalmaSailor
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@wahoo

Civil and social unrest – creating subconscious fear and insecurity in their partners which is causing them to ping a vulnerability test?

Obesity though?!?

Snoman
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The anxiety displayed by the commenter inserted into the article by Jack, I believe was his name is a bit extreme. Yes we can view the new order as a global marketplace on a macro scale, and certainly it is affecting change but we exist on a micro scale w/in our country/state/city. We are competing for and w/in a number of thousands if that. If you live in a major city of a million people one is likely never to meet all the prospects w/in that group. The focus should be to dial in on the fundamentals to become the… Read more »

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@ Sentient

Thank you, Sentient – these words from you mean a lot to me.

I am currently in the process of implementing both your DPA-triad as well as your platinum rule into my life, in terms of “integrating my shadows” in Jungian terms. It is not always easy, but it generally works smile

Oxytoxin
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Thank you for the welcome, Palma! I honestly don’t know enough about the neuroscience of free will and its philosophical implications to give a valuable summary and opinion. Although this topic intrigues me a lot (as ultimately, the question of whether we are rational agents that are able to govern our acts willingly is obviously of paramount relevance in our lives), I currently do not have the time to research it properly, but I will. From my limited knowledge, I find the corresponding Wikipedia article to be a good summary of the hot debate (there are different definitions of free… Read more »

Blaximus
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I like this Oxytoxin dude.

Good reading.

Oxytoxin
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@ Scott “The whole nature v nurture thing has always brought out the most intense reactions in people. I have my own theories about why. But it is a false dichotomy and therefore all the bickering about it is unnecessary. The literature continues to pile up linking all kinds of behavior and psychological issues to specific genes and combinations of them. There are two, extreme positions that are both irrational and competing with each other for what look like ideological reasons, which is not rational. The idea that there are no biological bases (the plural of basis) for behavior. (Or… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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NOW divided over legalization of prostitution. The 72 year old president is against it, younger women in the state orgs are for it.

Suggest getting some popcorn or something like that before reading.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-national-organization-for-women-is-tearing-itself-apart-over-sex-work

Anonymous Reader
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@Rollo

Funny thing how some manly men want their fried ice piping hot. A lot like girls, innit?

Thanks for the stuff that you do.

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Palmasailor Probably how harems occurred historically. Some fairly recent genetic research demonstrated that about 4,000 years ago invaders into the Iberian peninsula – now Spain and Portugal – changed the genetic makeup of the population in about 100 to 200 years. The maternal DNA, mtdna, of modern Spain includes traces of women from pre-event. There is no remnant of pre – event paternal DNA in modern Spaniards. None.. In simple terms, about 4, 000 years ago a big gang of men with some women trailing along moved into what is now Spain and killed or castrated all the male natives,… Read more »

Blaximus
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Spain you say?

Sentient
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Oxytoxin

I am currently in the process of implementing both your DPA-triad as well as your platinum rule into my life

Great. Keep posting and hit the FR section if you have questions.

Edge
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Other lens to look with on our intersexual dynamics Are;

1) Absolute Dominance hierarchy, but in a more complex co-dependent structure

2) Pathological personality disorder (narcissism vs self-love deficit disorder / codependency / empath)
– the work of Sam Vaknin who is one of the top IQ of our century, his book (malignant self-love: narcissism revisited), also the work of Ross Rosenberg (human magnet syndrome).. both comes from the background of clinical psychology

kfg
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kfg
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OT followup to It’s the Mix, Not the Media:

redpillrabbi
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Rollo: “More and more we’re going to see a return to the old order religions” It’s happening in Judaism, we have a healthy influx of Jews raised in not very observant homes, or even as atheists, growing up and becoming more traditional and going back to that old time religion. Because it fills a need and works, and for many people works much better than secular pop culture. re Determinism vs. Freewill In Jewish philosophy it is not simply one or the other, we have free will but it is constrained both by the fact the God is all knowing… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
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All the old traditions have magic in them. Rituals that put people in mental states. All very different. Their values evolved to deal with separate sets of recurring issues. With practice, the rituals are obviated and you can instantaneously create the mental shifts they are designed to provide.

There’s MUCH MORE than “hope” in them.

ThoughtfulDude
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Just a random thought I had a couple of days ago: We all know that the fertility rates in the West and most parts of the developed world are below replacement levels as it stands today. This means that large parts of the populations will eventually die off and shrink even more for each generation to come unless something radical happens. Politicians are puzzled how they should tackle the coming demographic problems in the future.The problem is that they are clueless about game and female psychology and think a lack of money is the sole reason why women don’t want… Read more »

kfg
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“I’d rather we have a future of humans than robots.”

We have a better future outlook as humans if we send robots out to get trapped in the mines.

Blaximus
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comment image

Anonymous Reader
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@Blaximus

What’s that a pic of, the Shadow software devs ?

Anonymous Reader
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kfg
We have a better future outlook as humans if we send robots out to get trapped in the mines.

One of them must be named “Timothy”.

Stefan
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@Blaximus

These guys look like just came out of the soy boy club and are about to white knight on twitter grin

Yollo Comanche
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@Stephan

What’s worse is they wait for you to start talking before they accuse you of interrupting them.

Yollo Comanche
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They literally aren’t trying to fight though. They feel so violated by life that they feel the need to use passive aggression to shield themselves from people who practice self-determination.

Oh. Err once they build a stronghold using Self-Determination……HEY! Stop interrupting me!!!

I’m a human being!!!!

Stefan
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@Yollo I made the mistake of arguing with some white knights on twitter and then femminist attacked me and tried shaming and stuff, and all the time i said to them to debate logically, they just ignored me and increased the shaming lol. I felt like I lost 50 ng/dL of my T levels every time I read their white knighting soy tweets lol. Funny thing was, all these soy boys were neck bearded overweight cunts, do they even see the irony in all this? Ah,well, I learned my lesson, twitter – only to read cool tweets,follow crypto news and… Read more »

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Yollo Comanche

What’s worse is they wait for you to start talking before they accuse you of interrupting them.

Passive-aggressive. Just like girls. Whatta surprise!

If-I-Fell
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HR resistant humor… Wildside talked about the HR dangers of talking about anything at work. Offices are full of stupid and now social justicy people—just waiting to be offended. In a previous shitty-short-lived job, I went on a business trip with a Latina who ate duck at our business dinner. Much later, I joked that you had better keep ducks away from her as she might eat them. The Latina got the joke and smiled, as it was smile-humor and not laugh out-loud-humor. A stupid evil co-manager woman went to HR to complain that I had demeaned the Latina, because… Read more »

Chump No More
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“Can You Ever Make a Woman Happy?” No, and you shouldn’t try. Not your job. My job is to create a life of abundance, mastery and purpose… for me. What purpose, you ask? Doesn’t matter as long as it is meaningful to me… for me. As long as the ‘signal’ of my authentic effort is greater than the ‘noise’, I’m good. If I choose to add a woman who brings her feminine value to my life, I should endeavor to add equal masculine value to hers… because that’s how healthy, interdependent relationships should work. If my value is not sufficient… Read more »

'Splosionman
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“Nature vs. Nurture is a constant theme in the Manosphere. Yes, it’s a constant theme…..”

And..grand prize for hackneyed internet garbage goes to…. Rollo Tomassi for serving up more overcooked benality! Thanks for that, king blogger to the lazy.

Anonymous Reader
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Chump No More

This +100.

Anonymous Reader
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I need to check on Rollo’s twitter feed a little more often, just for the lulz.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQxRIMLUwAMrgCK?format=jpg&name=small

That comment they make when this is going on in their hindbrain:
comment image

PalmaSailor
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@Anonymous Reader That’s an incredibly funny article. What’s pissed her off is that he’s obviously got options with women. And he’s got pre selection. Mid 20’s and good looking. Her front brain just can’t accept that he’s banging the woman he’s with (and probably others – but critically, not her) but her hindbrain knows he is. A mid 20’s attractive woman can just bang what she wants and they do. It’s plate theory for them too. But how dare a man do it? He was reading Rational Male, I wonder how she knew what it was? Did she go off… Read more »

PalmaSailor
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@Anonymous Reader

Here you go – from her reddit comments, I couldn’t copy and paste it so I had to screenshot it but she’s lonely and “just wants someone by her side”

https://imgur.com/a/VHEheOR

Strong and independent !!!

PalmaSailor
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Her reddit is hilarious

The fucking hypocrisy

She’s a member of female dating strategy, she’s 24, got a cat and FWB.. wait what… aren’t FWB’s … errrr…. plates?

https://imgur.com/a/CLqjcKd

PalmaSailor
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Her “Expectations” for Valentine’s Day!!

https://imgur.com/a/MfUynJ1

Yollo Comanche
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@Anonymous Reader

The long-awaited counterpunch.

Yollo Comanche
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They can’t even feel their own impending evolution.

Sentient
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Palma

I think that all men should dump at least one woman , but probably a dozen, but most never do.

This. Particularly for no reason. Just to do it. Will show himself he can replace a “good” girl.

All of the natural I knew going up would do this. Everyone else would think they were crazy.

At least one of the girls was suicidal, in the way girls are. Another found Christ…

Sentient
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“It’s not you, it’s me” – they hate that one being played back on them.

Stefan
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femcels/pink pillers, not far off FDS lol

Just Beers
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https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/03/the-nuclear-family-was-a-mistake/605536/ Rugby11, that’s a solid article, and really encapsulates my thoughts on why smaller, nuclear families need a common culture of other like-minded families to thrive. Too difficult, nowadays, to keep family together in the maelstrom of the social media village. I’ve always believed the nuclear family to be too fragile in isolation. In smaller towns it is easier for everyone to be on the same page: neighbors are like family members. Remember calling someone aunt this or uncle that even when they were just friends of the family, but not blood? In cities, our extended families and tribes are… Read more »

kfg
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From the article Rugby posted: “That 1950–65 window was not normal. It was a freakish historical moment . . .” This is a point I keep making myself, here and elsewhere. The 50’s were not some Golden Era of traditionalism and any tradcons who use them for their touchstone are missing the mark entirely. Tradition was destroyed in the first half of the 20th century and the 50s were the creation of a whole new world out of the ashes of the old. The pace of change, both socially and technically, went at a pace that would shock even someone… Read more »

Blaximus
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“Too difficult, nowadays, to keep family together in the maelstrom of the social media village.”

Nah.

It’s much more than that.

Families started disintegrating way before social media came about.

Just Beers
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“Too difficult, nowadays, to keep family together in the maelstrom of the social media village.”

Nah.

It’s much more than that.

Families started disintegrating way before social media came about.”

@Blax

Agree it took hits before. What specifically is the “much more than that” you mention?

Blaximus
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“Agree it took hits before. What specifically is the “much more than that” you mention?” The article lays pretty much all of the reasons fairly clearly. ” Social Media ” shit is an afterthought in many ways, but a significant one. I was born in 61, so I can remember a lot of the ” upheavals “. I was 7 years old in 68, lol, so I ( like a few commenters here ) can remember Hippies and Free Love and Bra Burnings and Viet Nam and Assassinations and Civil Rights and on and on and on. Society itself became… Read more »

Sentient
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Just Beers

What specifically is the “much more than that”

Take a hard look at monetary policy, the shift to 100% fiat currencies and the financialization of the economy.

kfg
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Which has fostered the conversion of societies of people into collections of fungible economic-labor units.

Fungible economic-labor units do not have families, they have things like “output” and “churn.” It’s all rather computer controlled retro-feudal.

Blaximus
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Yup.

scribblerg
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scribblerg
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Re: Jack’s whining, someone, please go get him a tampon. Jesus fuck, when will men get it? Life is hard and unforgiving for a man. The world does not give a fuck about you and never will. Whatever supposed “alpha” men get out of this world they rip out of someone else’s mitts and win a competition/battle to get it. In every man’s victory there is another man’s loss. It’s axiomatic. Men compete and win and lose in a numerous ways. We also learn to cooperate and love and be generous. But we most of all must shoulder the burden… Read more »

SJF
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Scribbs, I gave you a thumbs up. And: Yeah, our old school mating strategies and Christianity and patriarchy are being swept aside. Like so many ideas and social orders before. They are being swept aside by societal norms. Doesn’t mean any one society or man needs to sweep them aside if they actually have value. Sweeping away moral codes and Moral law the same way. It might not be for nothing. But it is something when it is. There is also Natural Law. And yeah it sucks if you want to live out some “Leave it to Beaver” life that… Read more »

Blaximus
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It is a fallacy of the highest order for men to believe that because internet, women have access to the top tier males, whatever the fuck ” top tier ” means. Women can ” see ” more men. Some can message/stalk/ get in touch with some men they find desirable. Most women don’t get much from the web other than random penis. News flash: they could have done that without internet access, and have done so forever. That mode of thinking is unnecessarily defeatist and an example of buffering in the first degree. No excuses. It’s possible to think your… Read more »

SJF
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“That mode of thinking is unnecessarily defeatist and an example of buffering in the first degree.” @ Blaximus You could be then labeled as Trad-Con. God dare them labelers. Of which Rollo is…. It’s not a fight about Old Order vs. New order. You, Blaximus are calling it out without stating it directly. I hope my 160,000 mile truck doesn’t fall off the road and leave me disabled when I started a new job (part time for cash $1000 day, 7.5 hours, on the side in addition to my own gig. And driving by old traditional cure your care of… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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Blaximus Most women don’t get much from the web other than random penis Pardon me for breaking into the spit ‘n whittle cliche’ club on the back porch like this, but that statement is just about pure nonsense. Maybe you caught a cold or something, because you used to know better than that. Most women get a whole lot of emotional validation from the internet. Older women from Facebook, younger ones from Instagram and/ or Snapchat, and so forth and so on. That can be more valuable to them than penis, and not just random penis, but their LTR /… Read more »

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[…] I received this comment on my January 29, 2020 livestream of Rational Male 101: I think Rollo is talking about an idea that Ive read about before in Thomas Sowells famous book Conflict of Visions. One side of the spectrum says that humans are very animalisti… Read More […]

If-I-Fell
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If-I-Fell
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According to Dems Lizzy, Joey and Bernie; Mikey’s women, and by extension all women should be freed from the terms of legal settlements. Goddamn you Mikey, free the poor women from their NDAs you slaver! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom!

Blaximus
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AR I’m not saying you’re wrong, but you’re mostly incorrect.😁 Sure women get a measure of validation from social media, but that’s the same as them watching movies and sappy tv shows, or playing with dolls and reading vampire/wolfman sex stories. I know 3 women in my circle, now in their early 30’s, who I’ve known and observed since they were about 13 years old. These particular 3 are all big gals, weighing very close to 300 pounds. Pretty -ish chicks, just huuggee. All of them, being lazy youth, frequented ” chubby chaser ” websites and got attention and validation… Read more »

SJF
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“Most young folks aren’t mindless idiots. A bunch are. Mindless idiots are highly profitable if used and manipulated properly.”

Because of absentee parents…

And not living in flyover states with stable, local communities.

And noisy signals.

Blaximus
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Agree about the parenting. Disagree about the flyover nonsense. It doesn’t matter where you live. Ohio has the highest drug related death rate. The nation feins being stunned. This is an example of what I was talking about wrt narratives. I live in ” urban ” city ( with 60 foot tree lined streets and Victorian mansions…go figure ) and the narrative of the handful is applied to virtually all. No different in the super zips, as the narrative of the affluent as being stable and immune to ” people problems ” get magically applied to all residents. It’s not… Read more »

SJF
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“No different in the super zips, as the narrative of the affluent as being stable and immune to ” people problems ” get magically applied to all residents.” Muh super zip is not wealthy. The concept of super zip as formulated by The Washington Post was a combination of two factors: annual income and college educated. Mine only has an annual income of $140K a year, but over 70% colleged educated. And it shows. As in not clinically retarded. The grass really is greener and the children are brighter here. It is real. You are the product of the closest… Read more »

Blaximus
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“Mine only has an annual income of $140K a year, but over 70% colleged educated. And it shows. As in not clinically retarded. The grass really is greener and the children are brighter here.” Please, explain to me what it is that you believe makes children ” brighter ” , grass ” greener “, and the benefit of a college education overall. “It is real. You are the product of the closest 300 families that stay 90% married that you associate with.” Lol, nah it’s a matter of perspective and mindset and how close one is to reality. I’m not… Read more »

SJF
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Groups of people are different. According to Charles Murray.

And. We must treat people as individuals.

https://youtu.be/SStZxI1rH-A?t=3645

It’s a false premise that I haven’t faced hardships or adversity in disneyland. I’ve handloaded over 25,000 bullets in my lifetime, yet I’ve never thought about eating one. And I’m not going to in the future.

Blaximus
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You always avoid answering direct questions, and you can’t resist quoting someone else.

Okay, no big deal.

Not really important, until the next time you boast about where you live, and how great everyone and their kids are, and how it’s good to not be ” unhappy and unlucky ” ( there’s no such thing as fucking luck ).

Blaximus
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… I won’t even mention the tone deafness of mentioning Charles Murray to me.

SJF
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“You always avoid answering direct questions…” What? This question?: “Please, explain to me what it is that you believe makes children ” brighter ” , grass ” greener “, and the benefit of a college education overall.” What makes children brighter is good parenting. Which includes resources (e.g. money), wise decisions, a certain moral code to do what is right. And a community that believes the same, i.e., other good kids, parents and teachers. Also, a family that has the best interests of the children in mind after the parents have their own oxygen masks on. …in order to be… Read more »

SJF
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“… I won’t even mention the tone deafness of mentioning Charles Murray to me.”

It was intentional.

And he’s the one who had the concept of Super Zips that the Washington Post developed their map with.

And it’s not about me or my super zip. It’s about individuals making wise choices. Freewill. And Natural and Moral Law. Red Pill gets it’s rocks of on the amorality of it all. Happy Families have a wider perspective.

Blaximus
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“College education in and of itself is worthless without the downstream actions of an individual. Individuals that used it as a tool to develop themselves into a career, happy family, and overall mental and physical health.”

A college education is worthless without a corresponding opportunity. No opportunity, no ” career “.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/prestoncooper2/2018/06/08/underemployment-persists-throughout-college-graduates-careers/#4ba082fd7490

SJF
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SJF
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No opportunity?

WTF is that?

Now you are showing your true colors.

Blaximus
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You know, facts are stubborn things. There are lots of places in America where economic opportunity has shrunk or vanished, or never really existed.

If I uprooted you and moved you to Alabama, you’d have a better understanding…since you seem to lack imagination.

SJF
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I have an overactive imagination. In fact, I can rationalize anything and everything. Admittedly to a fault.

I lack empathy, though.

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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of course you do. It shows.

Moral, huh?

SJF
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“Moral, huh?”

More specifically: Moral Law.

Look it up.

How groups of people should act. And not legally enforceable.

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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There’s no such thing as ” Moral Law “.

People act however they want, then justify it.

Ahem.

SJF
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“There’s no such thing as ” Moral Law “.”

Of course there isn’t. Because it is a part of freewill and choice.

Which is recursive to good parenting.

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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Anyway….

I cannot shake my head enough –

12 year old boy.

Can’t legally drink.

Can’t legally smoke.

Can’t legally drive.

Can decide at 12 what gender he is.

Gabrielle Union needs her ass whooped. This is her handywork.

Dwayne Wade needs a lobotomy and an asylum.

Lol, let the social media dragging commence.

/end rant.

SJF
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From the original post by Rollo: Or you can give up. You can do just what’s necessary to survive in a system that passed you by and console yourself with complaining about how degenerate and unfair it is. And you’ll be right on both counts because that’s where you are. Old order thinking is very comforting, and it will be until there are no more old order thinkers – replaced by a succeeding generation of new order thinkers who themselves will be swept aside by new order thinkers. More and more we’re going to see a return to the old… Read more »

Blaximus
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The world is your playground for socializ…. ah, nevermind.

SJF
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“ah, nevermind.”

Is where things start going off the rails…

Blaximus
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comment image

Welcome to my place. Take your shoes off and relax.

SJF
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“Welcome to my place. Take your shoes off and relax.” I get it Blax. You are all in for adventure/mystery/chaos/disorder and whatever comes next. Good luck with that. And teaching that to your boys. It is not teachable because you are you and they are them. If you haven’t figured me yet. But I know you have, I’m all in for order. That is what I do. I reach out for adventure and disorder when I feel the time is right. And I’ve always reached out for that. I’m not so sure I ever actually relax. To do so would… Read more »

Blaximus
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We are brothers having a disagreement, that’s all. “And I’m still not liable to swallow a bullet. When chaos ensues. And I resent you insinuating so. Because it ain’t so.” Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. Mike Tyson. Without practice, you don’t really know what you’re going to do until the time comes. You need ” little chaos ” to prepare for the real thing, no matter the size. That’s why the military has War Games and Bootcamp and Live Fire Drills. The last time I felt real chaos was 911. Never saw two hundred… Read more »

Blaximus
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Lol, and my .45’s were 100% useless.

SJF
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“Without practice, you don’t really know what you’re going to do until the time comes. You need ” little chaos ” to prepare for the real thing, no matter the size. That’s why the military has War Games and Bootcamp and Live Fire Drills.” Preaching to the choir, Blax. I’ve been practicing for 58.75 years. Without a silver spoon. With chaos, which I resent. Your false premise is that I haven’t had adversity. I have in spades. All my life, all the time. I just happen to be an optimist and my glass is 95% full. And I’m not apologizing… Read more »

wahoo Mcdaniels
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He hee, one difference between a mechanic and a doctor is the mechanic will always wash his hands before he pisses and the doctor will sometimes wash them after.

Another is that a mechanic has to read more to keep up with the changes in his job as well as buy tools more often. They both do some suicide prevention. But you can guess which is the most empathetic as he will live in a remodeled home rather than a new one.

MarkT
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The theme in the opening comment is not Nature V Nurture, but free will V determinism. There’s certain things in our nature we can’t change, and who we are is greatly influenced by our nurture. But our power as a species lies in the extent to which we can overcome both by free will. If that weren’t the case we’d be just like the rest of the animals and wouldn’t have the civilisation and technology we have today. The determinist position presented in the opening comment is also contradictory and self defeating. If we’re all determined (by nature and/or nurture)… Read more »

Blaximus
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Laws and social processes aren’t ” real ” things. They are ideas requiring cooperation.

That’s why you can have a beer today, opposed to when it was illegal.

…. And people still had beer, even when it was illegal.

Cooperation is the thing.

Roused
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@MarkT You’re a heretic and should be burned at the stake! our power as a species lies in the extent to which we can overcome both by free will. If that weren’t the case we’d be just like the rest of the animals and wouldn’t have the civilisation and technology we have today. Comments like that will get you thrown on the pyre quickly. You might even get call a blue pill beta chump. Just saying…. Muh hypergamy!!! Don’t be shaming the dogma, it’s not polite. Sorta makes you wonder why bother even trying to participate in a civilized society?… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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@Roused:

Mark T simply and articulately expressed an opinion, one which I don’t see as the least bit controversial.

You, on the other hand, are raving. It might be wise to shake that bee out of your shorts.

Roused
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Roused
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Not the least bit controversial, but yet cause many here to get their panties in a massive bunch ranting about evo-bio and humans lack any capacity to control their nature.

Maybe explain that?

Anonymous Reader
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Someone claiming to be Roused Sorta makes you wonder why bother even trying to participate in a civilized society? With that determinist take why not just rampage like a wild man and fuck everything and anything? You’re funny, whoever you are. Primus: MarkT’s comment is almost exactly the opposite of determinism. You should take the time to learn meanings of words before using them. Secundus, this is childishness on the level of a 13 year old boy. Rob, steal, murder and cheat your way through life. I mean what the hell, you couldn’t help yourself right? Evo-bio rules all. Childish… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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Someone claiming to be Roused
Not the least bit controversial, but yet cause many here to get their panties in a massive bunch ranting about evo-bio and humans lack any capacity to control their nature.

Maybe explain that?

No prob.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Psychological_projection

Anonymous Reader
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Anonymous Reader
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Or to put it another way:

http://www.pyleaudio.com/1000/PRJSF1009.jpg

disgruntledearthling
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disgruntledearthling
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Off topic

I’m looking for instructions on how to cook meat – specifically instead of pre-cut steak but rather a large ‘roast’? (For the life of me I cannot remember the name of the thing).
@Sentient had written a comment on how this is done a while ago…

SJF
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“Laws and social processes aren’t ” real ” things. They are ideas requiring cooperation. Cooperation is the thing.” Now you are getting it Blax. And guiding direction. It’s your motives. For you and your boys. Exactly. Thank You. Marry this with Moral Law. Heh: Cooperation among others. Vs. Lord of the Flies. the tension between group-think and individuality, between rational and emotional reactions, and between morality and immorality. The same thing happens with politics at the level of tribal warfare. And we’ve discussed this before. The larger groups get, the more they get fractionated tribalism. Ingroup malice and outgroup altruism,… Read more »

Blaximus
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Roused and Sjf See, I’m not all that clear about what is called ” human nature ” at all. I think there’s a lot of confusion and fallacy mixed together. I’ve heard that human nature is destructive, but it that were the case we wouldn’t be here in earth now, and laws wouldn’t stop ” human nature “. As a man, I’ve read stuff about men’s” nature’s ” that I do not posses , laws aside. Roused mentioned robbing and stealing, but that’s not in man’s nature. It’s probably evolved behavior though, and today ” law ” makes certain kinda… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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Daughter dials 911 because her parents have cut her cell service off.

Lol.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/misuse-911/phone-service-shut-309176

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