Rise Above

I received this comment on my January 29, 2020 livestream of Rational Male 101:

I think Rollo is talking about an idea that I’ve read about before in Thomas Sowell’s famous book Conflict of Visions. One side of the spectrum says that humans are very animalistic despite their capability of rationalizing otherwise, and human nature must be constrained by laws and social processes (such as constraining hypergamy). The other side of the spectrum says that humans are entirely capable of overcoming their Darwinian natures through intentional decisionmaking and must be unconstrained in order to flourish. Everyone lies somewhere between the two. I assume most men here lean more toward a constrained vision.

Nature vs. Nurture is a constant theme in the Manosphere. Yes, it’s a constant theme throughout most natural sciences, but it’s a paradox that’s going to always pervade intersexual dynamics. And mostly because people’s belief sets are rooted more in one or the other. Personal responsibility versus biological determinism is an issue that defines what our perspectives are on a great many things; not just intersexual dynamics. This isn’t an issue of politics or even worldview. There are plenty of believers in our human capacity to rise above our personal circumstances and evolutionary dictates on both sides of the political spectrum. For every hardline Trad-Con espousing the virtues of the human spirit and freewill superseding our physical conditions there is a left-leaning humanist who’ll conveniently agree that humans aren’t beholden to what some inconvenient science says if it aligns with their belief set.

Most “old order” ideologies today are struggling with relevancy in what I called the age of “new order” thinking or our New Age of Enlightenment. This new order understanding is the result of the unprecedented deluge of information we now have access to in this millennium. Not only is it this new influx of data that’s challenging the old order ideologies, but also the accessibility to it that old order thinkers can no longer keep pace with.

The response to this influx of information requires us to parse it out like never before. In predictable human fashion most people will make a hard turn towards the old order dictates that used to be able to explain harsh truths to us adequately enough for us to move on to other things. Thus, we see the global Village return to an interest in old religions, shamanism, metaphysics and tribal superstitions (and a lot of Chick Crack) today. That’s not to say that some of these old order institutions never had merit. A lot of what new order data presents to us can be confirmed by old order beliefs and wisdom. What we used to take on faith can now be confirmed by new order information. But this is also problematic for old order believers. It’s never a comforting thought to be confronted with what you had thought was sublimely metaphysical actually being something that can, in fact, be quantified. Yes, your religion was correct about some things, but those things are no longer the magical articles of faith they once were.

But We’re Better Than That, Right?

The Nature vs. Nurture debate is really a polite proxy for the war between two perspectives – Determinism vs. Freewill. While questions of consciousness and personal philosophies are outside the scope of this blog, what is in scope is how these perspectives define the way we approach our understanding of innate mating strategies, long term relationships, forming families and raising children.

As I mentioned early, determinism feels wrong to both kinds of believers. When ever I debate the harsh realities of how Hypergamy works, not just for our species, but most of the animal kingdom, I’m invariably met with the question of whether or not Hypergamy is ‘Good or Evil’. There’s always a want to qualify what’s really a natural dynamic. Is a pack of wolves evil for bringing down a caribou to feed the pack in the dead of winter? It all depends on who you’re rooting for I guess.

The ‘sphere’s contemplating these scenarios are nothing new. Considering the moral implications of the uglier aspects of Hypergamy is just one easy example among many other naturalism vs. moralism dilemmas in Red Pill praxeology. Empiricists will explain the dynamic in the hope that knowing about it, and how it works, will lead to better predictive outcomes. Hypergamy works thusly X-Y-Z; now plan accordingly and build a better life upon that predictive model. Believers on the other hand will absorb this data and look for moral equivocation:

They believe that the goal of debate is to establish what is morally better, and what everyone should do. They argue about what is right.

The Believers vs. The Empiricists

On a recent video I did with Rich Cooper and Dr. Shawn Smith one point of debate was whether or not the idea of Hypergamy should be used as a “predictive framework” for understanding intersexual relationships. The topic of our discussion was the merits of Hypergamy in its expanded, robust, definition and whether it’s a reliable metric to compare people’s relationships (married and dating) against. As you might guess a lot of Red Pill awareness centers on Hypergamy; it’s why I continue to stress it even when my detractors lie about my interests. It’s really that important.

But as we we’re debating the ins and outs I posed another question to Dr. Smith, “If Hypergamy is not a reliable predictive framework for understanding intersexual relationships, then what is a better one?”

I wasn’t being facetious, nor was I trying to hit Shawn with a gotcha question; I genuinely wrote this question down in my preparatory notes for the show. If not Hypergamy, in its expanded definition, (that describes women’s innate mating strategy) then what is a good outline by which we might judge women’s (and men’s) motives, incentives and behaviors with respect to their mating strategies.

Do women even have mating strategies defined by their innate, evolved, natures? Or are their sexual, reproductive decisions purely an act of cognitive will, as defined by their socialization? If 100,000 years of human evolution didn’t shape women’s reproductive strategies, then what are we left with that explains the commonalities we see women using (with our new order data gathering) in their mate selection and breeding (or aborting) habits? Is it entirely freewill and personal choice? We’re certainly meant to believe it’s “her body, her choice” and the decisions are an extension of her cognitive will.

Yes, I get that it doesn’t have to be one or the other. The possibility exists that it’s both nature and nurture affecting women and men’s mating strategies – and certainly choice is involved in the outcome of those strategies. I’m more inclined to believe it’s both, or at least we want to believe our conscious decisions are what’s pulling the strings. I’ve been in all the livestream debates when we asked the question, “Do women have agency?” and if not then are we our Sister’s Keeper? The more moralistic a guy is usually the more he’s likely he is to include women’s lives to his list of masculine duties and personal responsibilities.

The underlying assumptions in all these accounts is “Aren’t we better than this?”

As reasonably rational, self-aware creatures, with what we presume is freewill and a liability of personal responsibility for the choices we make when exercising that freewill, then haven’t we evolved above all our base impulse? If not, then shouldn’t we have by now?

Every day I harp on about the fallacy of the Blank Slate that most old order thinkers can’t seem to disabuse themselves, but if we are in fact “above it all” then the fallacy of the Blank Slate, as well as the notion that we might ever be influenced by our evolved natures is all a moot point. If our conscious selves are in fact better than our evolved natures then the variables of evolution are rendered meaningless. All that matters is the self and developing our consciousness to rise above our conditions.

Our conscious minds are capable of overriding our innate natures. We can, sometimes do, kill ourselves by not eating. A fast or a hunger strike is something we can consciously do as an act of will. A sense of righteousness and virtue can get mixed into that conscious and our will supersedes our innate nature (we get hungry and need to eat or we die). It doesn’t change the operative physical state that our bodies need certain things. We often commit suicide as an act of will or the conscious act of our depressive emotional state. Again, will (however it’s defined) overrides our physical conditions, but how much of what we believe is our willpower is uninfluenced by the same physical conditions, environment, upbringing, socialization and personal circumstance that we hope to rise above?

Very soon, perhaps within my own lifetime, we will be able to genetically engineer humans. In 2018 a Chinese scientist broke codes of ethics to create the first gene-edited baby. The science, if not the technology, is already here. The possibility exists that human beings, through sheer force of will, can custom engineer our physical states to conform to what our ideologies would tell us is preferable. If you’ve ever seen the movie Gattaca you’ll understand the implications of this technology. It’s this author’s opinion that we are living in a time when the ideologies we subscribe to today will affect the ethics of what we engineer into the humanity of tomorrow.

Gattaca is science fiction, but the philosophical questions it poses are very real now. From a objective, humanist perspective this raises a lot of interesting questions. Should we engineer-out of humanity “diseases” like Down’s Syndrome? What about sickle cell anemia? If a gay gene is ever discovered (I don’t believe homosexuality is genetic), should we edit it out of humanity to ensure “normal” heterosexual human beings in future generations?

The Chinese scientist who broke the rules of ethics was reprimanded for his experimentation. “When the news broke, peers in China and abroad condemned him for manipulating life’s building blocks using a relatively untested gene-editing tool.” But why? Chinese official declared his experimentation illegal. It’s entirely possible that a new race of superior humans could be engineered to be better ‘adapted’ to live longer, be smarter, more immune to certain diseases, possibly eradicate some disease and make for a stronger human species. Why would it be wrong or unethical to strive for “perfection”?

Have we not elevated our will above our physical limitations? Or are we using our physical conditions as an implement of our will? We’ll find out soon, but our ideological bent and the ideas of what right and wrong is most certainly influenced and defined by the realities of our physical selves.

Rise of the New Order

This was a comment from Jack about the rise of the New Order:

Rollo, the digital age has ruined us. Culture and pop culture today move at an alarming rate, what was hip now won’t be in the next year or month, society has never moved this fast and as a result the new way is merely a day away from being the old way. The demon’s out of the ring now, no turning back, and there’s no real way to deal with the modern age.

If you are not born into greatness, or utilizing the vast knowledge of the net to surpass everyone and stay there, you get nothing. It’s now the same way with women, previously, our worlds were smaller and hypergamy wasn’t as out of control. There were checks and balances, God and church being two of them, shame was a motivator for keeping women in check as they don’t understand loyalty like men. Now, they have infinite access to all top men, with upwards access to all jobs, and no reprecussions for acting in their very best interests and base instincts at all times. This shrinks the dating pool dramatically to only a few desirable mates because they value themselves so highly. So, if you’re not a natural at flirting with women, or learned how to do it through you and the many other “red pill” men out there AND CAN KEEP THAT ON 24/7 WHILE DOING IT BETTER THAN EVERYBODY ELSE, you will get nothing or lose what you have.

It’s almost all risk no reward for modern men unless you’re alpha”, and even then you’re not safe. Women will always want more and better, so if you’re not constantly 100% on at all times, you lose. If Jeff Bezos and Johnny Depp aren’t safe despite their fame and fortune, what does that say for everybody else? It’s exasperating as a modern man, you have to be and do too much to compete on the global market, as a man younger than you I don’t know if you can understand how daunting it is to have to be everything all at once and it STILL not being enough. You can’t even stay established anymore, if you’re not constantly putting out content, you fall to nothing again and have to start from scratch.

Your competition as a red pilled man, are other men armed with this knowledge, and it will get harder as time goes on with more men are forced to adapt this way of thinking or give up entirely. The new system forces you to constantly adapt faster, and better than all of your peers, or die instantly. There is no rest, no reprieve, no time to catch your breath, either you constantly innovate and improve on the new or you simply don’t eat. I cannot understand how this can keep up when this new “enlightened” era leaves the majority of the male sex in the dumpster.

That being said, without men such as you or Dalrock, established constant fonts of content for this, the kind of thing men need to hear, there will be no direction for men in the coming years. Yes, someone might come along eventually to replace you and the groups you represent, the thought even, but the men like you are very much buoys and lighthouses to keep those of us drifting in the digital age’s ocean from sinking. Without that, we’re all absolutely lost. Without guys like you, it’ll be even harder to aggregate that information and even try to compete or establish relevance. So the destruction of Dalrock’s work means setting those of us who wish to live and fight for a better life back several years, which none of us can afford. Many of us have learned partly, or greatly from you and men like you, whether that’s connecting the dots or having the entire mind opened. So wether or not he wants to delete everything, his work must press on for every one of us who wants a chance to survive in this.

While I’m flattered to be considered one of the pioneers of understanding intersexual dynamics from Red Pill perspective, I can entirely relate with the sentiment of perpetual vigilance. “If [insert male celebrity] can’t make it in today’s sexual marketplace with today’s women then what hope does the average guy have?” is a common MGTOW refrain. I understand men’s desire to just throw in the towel and accept one’s sexless fate. We now live in a Global Sexual Marketplace. The old order rules for the localized sexual marketplace that the last 3 generations of men still expect to work for them today are a thing of the past. And this is only one symptom of the rapid expansion of technology and its effect on our cultural narratives.

For all the alarms we’d like to raise about humans’ genetically engineering future generations of humans, the effects of the meta-scale social engineering experiment that is gynocentrism are already here. Men have always formed adaptations to the realities of solving their reproductive problems, but never have a generation of men had to adapt to so rapidly a changing environment. And it’s only going to get more complex as we move forward.

Today’s men have few options available to them in our present state. Most of us will continue to keep pace and attempt to see the signs of ways to best advantage what comes at us in the sexual marketplace, and really life in general, until we can no longer keep up. Evolve or die. Keep pace with the trends and stay sharp enough to look ahead and leverage what you can based on an objective assessment of what human beings really are. Stay sharp until you no longer can. Hopefully, if you’ve wisely conserved and protected your resources during that time you’ll have some security until you die. If not, then you can expect to fall prey to the next generation of vultures who see your nest egg as their source of revenue.

Or you can give up. You can do just what’s necessary to survive in a system that passed you by and console yourself with complaining about how degenerate and unfair it is. And you’ll be right on both counts because that’s where you are. Old order thinking is very comforting, and it will be until there are no more old order thinkers – replaced by a succeeding generation of new order thinkers who themselves will be swept aside by new order thinkers.

More and more we’re going to see a return to the old order religions, metaphysics and tribalism as the generations that cannot keep pace with human advancement seek meaning and consolation. As a result we’ll also see a new virtue signaling and ego-investments in the power of the self, freewill and mindful consciousness. The Trad-Cons of today are already here and the more ‘spiritual-but-not-religious’ social justice adherents apply their own brand of magical thinking, but for the same reasons. The effect is the same – the retreat from competing in a globalizing system that, sooner or later, will outpace us all.

And like all other aspects of this rapid advancement, even this retreating demographic will be coopted and commercialized by savvy ‘players’ who are still keeping pace. Formalizing the retreaters, organizing them, catering to their idiosyncrasies, all will be big business for those who learn to sell consolation (if not hope) to those who think they’ll never keep up.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Roused
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It’s entirely possible that a new race of superior humans could be engineered to be better ‘adapted’ to live longer, be smarter, more immune to certain diseases, possibly eradicate some disease and make for a stronger human species. Why would it be wrong or unethical to strive for “perfection”? I don’t know, maybe we can look at how well that went with the eugenics program that started here in the U.S. and was adopted uber extreme style by the Nazis. Sure, it’s an extreme example, but engineering the human species is extremely dangerous. Yet many are okay with those risks.… Read more »

Sentient
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Time to DJ…

New Order

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xxDv_RTdLQo

The Temptation of Victoria. 7 perfect minutes.

RISE

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv0efmUKP9s

Public Image… 12″ of course 🍌

Roused
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@ Sentient

Interesting choice of songs from New Order. All that temptation to go after that new strange.

Dang, used to listen to them a lot years ago. Did you know they used to be called Joy Division and their lead committed suicide?

Sentient
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Roused

The one tempted is Victoria. And she acts on it, consequences be damned.

But yes well aware of Ian Curtis.

“Love Will Tear Us Apart” is a song by English rock band Joy Division, released in June 1980. Its lyrics were inspired by lead singer Ian Curtis’ marriage problems and frame of mind before his suicide in May 1980.[6]

How about them intersexual dynamics?

Hit it!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zuuObGsB0No

[PS – JD was formed after watching a Sex Pistol’s show… Johnny Lydon of PIL was Johnny Rotten of the SP…]

Yollo Comanche
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Fuck yea.

Sentient
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Ruh Rob “”You told the jury the threesome was horrifying because it was something you didn’t want to do,” Rotunno said. “I would like you to read the note from your phone to the ladies and gentlemen of the jury.” “Do I have to?” Mann asked, turning her head toward Justice James Burke. “Yes,” Rotunno said. After a long pause, Mann began reading the years-old post, describing a threesome with an unnamed “older man” and an Italian woman, seemingly the same one she mentioned in her testimony. Loaded with jokes, expletives, and erotic descriptions of the woman’s body, the written… Read more »

Chris Clayton
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The commenter in the essay is correct, it’s getting out of hand. I’m of the belief that men will run out of tricks and exhaust self improvement to get women and we will fall backwards. Backwards as in using religion to shame woman. A middle-aged man with a thyroid problem isnt gonna wait 5 yrs to be his best self. He’s gonna take the short cut and tell her she will burn in hell if she posts another booty pic.

Sentient
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Blaximus
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I will always find it fascinating that some believe that ” superior ” people can be made/designed/brought about. This is an old argument. It hinges on a belief that there are ” inferior ” people to begin with. Evidently as long as there are men, this idea won’t die, no matter how misguided it is in it’s face. Hypergamy shouldn’t be as confusing as it seems. Look at it like this: do you still have the first job you ever had? Your first bike as your mode of transportation? Still place cookies and milk out on Christmas eve? Do you… Read more »

kfg
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” . . . are their sexual, reproductive decisions purely an act of cognitive will . . .”

I’d like to see one to decide to lay eggs that hatch trilobites by parthenogenesis.

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@Blaximus That was a well written comment with important ideas. Thumbs up. It is pretty much a synopsis of the book Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind by Yuval Harari. Biology sets the limits of possibility for human activity, and culture shapes what happens within those bounds. And then history tells about cultural change. And humans are going in the direction of being their own mini/moderate/major gods. And that leads to the devolution of us. In other words human evolution leads to Idiocracy. So why is Rollo picking a bone with the Old Order? I know why. I agree that… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
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The only reason gender fluidity is changing the game is because eastern hypocrisy is a poorly understood secret weapon against western hubris.

Yollo Comanche
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When you understand it, you can go back to being happy with yourselves despite their quacking. Much to their dismay. Much to their mutual benefit.

Yollo Comanche
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I should say “Self-confidence” not “hubris”. That’s THEIR word meant to cow us.

Blaximus
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Yollo There’s not really any such thing as gender fluidity in humans, no matter how much media and professors profess . Since hearing about gender fluidity, I looked at my dick and balls in the mirror every day, and nothing changed or morphed. Nurture. Notice the explosion of ” gay ” people since a subset of people have taken to every available outlet with giant megaphones daily pronouncing that ” the gay is normal “, even when nobody even asked? It’s been around forever, but now it’s becoming almost compulsory. Was it Plato or Socrates that said a young boy… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
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Here’s your like from a youngn. thanks for truckin. Keep on truckin.

Scott
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Of, course the movie Gattaca shows a guy who breaks out of the oppressive genetics based/fatalist system despite having a 99% of fail heart failure before 30. In the end, he should have been caught, but it is the Gattaca company doctor who looks away at the moment when he was about to be stopped, enabling him to board the rocket and realize his dream. So, the point of the story is unclear. Is Vincent an exception? An outlier who triumphs over his destiny? Or is the point that int he end, we all need a helping hand from one… Read more »

Scott
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Correction: “99% chance of heath failure by 30”

Yollo Comanche
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@Scott

They make that judgement from the comforting assumption of an available standing army that is happy to shoot people to death for daring to deny little ‘ol THEM of whatever the FUCK they want.

I hope they DO make a super being. So he’ll fucking nuke them all.

You like Video Games?

Even in the East, there’s people ready to remind us that our minds and hearts are partners.

Blaximus
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” The old order types, as I see it, are the ones who are desperately clinging to a behaviorist mindset. They just cannot believe the impact of genetics and biology on human behavior. They really want to think that given the right information, the right external environment, and conditions that anyone can break out of their funk.” Prove it. Prove the impact of ” genetics “. We witness behaviors every single day. Forever. History is rife with behaviors. Show me an example of genetics sans behavior. I’ll wait. Sounds like your talking about humans in some sort of vegetative state,… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
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Hell, he wouldn’t even nuke you.

He’d laugh at you.

Scott
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Silly.

Read every single article and book on this page, then write a nuanced, academic quality critique of each one. Include references, studious observations about the methods of each, alternative hypotheses, and then have a bunch of experts in the fields of genetics and behavior peer review your work for quality control.

https://jaymans.wordpress.com/hbd-fundamentals/

Yollo Comanche
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@Scott

You don’t take rejection too well, do you?

Scott
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I’m not tracking “rejection?”

It’s not like I am sitting here with a razor to my wrists because of something someone said online. I just think the evidence for the biological bases for behavior is pretty overwhelming. And I can read.

Yollo Comanche
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@Scott

Do houses only have bases in your neighborhood?

Anonymous Reader
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Blaximus
I will always find it fascinating that some believe that ” superior ” people can be made/designed/brought about. This is an old argument. It hinges on a belief that there are ” inferior ” people to begin with.

Depends on whose criteria are used for “superior”, doesn’t it? Some form of eugenics has been going on for millennia.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0133079

https://www.pnas.org/content/110/17/6925

Yollo Comanche
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@Anon

Bro. That website about penises is called PNAS.

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Blaximus
There’s not really any such thing as gender fluidity in humans, no matter how much media and professors profess .

Hmm. Sure about that? I know of some women who don’t seem to fit your opinion.

Since hearing about gender fluidity, I looked at my dick and balls in the mirror every day, and nothing changed or morphed.

Lol! You stand in for 100% of the human race? For sure?

See what we get when a linguistic term, “gender”, is used in place of a biological term, “sex”?
That’s not an accident.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_10%2C000_Year_Explosion

The 10,000 Year Explosion: How Civilization Accelerated Human Evolution is a 2009 book by anthropologists Gregory Cochran and Henry Harpending. Starting with their own take on the conventional wisdom that the evolutionary process stopped when modern humans appeared, the authors explain the genetic basis of their view that human evolution is accelerating, illustrating it with some examples.[1]

Blaximus
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” Read every single article and book on this page, then write a nuanced, academic quality critique of each one. Include references, studious observations about the methods of each, alternative hypotheses, and then have a bunch of experts in the fields of genetics and behavior peer review your work for quality control. “

😂

Nope.

Go to a star wars fan site and argue with them.

They argue all the live long day because ” right “.

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Yollo Comanche
Bro. That website about penises is called PNAS.

Scott
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The whole nature v nurture thing has always brought out the most intense reactions in people. I have my own theories about why. But it is a false dichotomy and therefore all the bickering about it is unnecessary. The literature continues to pile up linking all kinds of behavior and psychological issues to specific genes and combinations of them. There are two, extreme positions that are both irrational and competing with each other for what look like ideological reasons, which is not rational. The idea that there are no biological bases (the plural of basis) for behavior. (Or that they… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
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@Scott

Hmmm. Could I have misread you?

Oh well. Welcome. And thanks for saying so.

Blaximus
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Scott
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Its an interesting phenomenon to observe. I’ve been visiting here more lately in the wake of Dalrocks departure–thinking I might get some of my fix for interesting, stimulating outside-the-overton window discussion satiated. But even before that, the comments were starting to stagnate, as if everything had already been said or explored. Maybe the reason he quit is as simple as that–he wanted to exit while he was ahead. This conversation feels a lot like that. In the glory days of blogs like this one and Dalrock, the comments sections would regularly go 300, 500, 600 + comments with so many… Read more »

Blaximus
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Echo chambers are falling out of fashion.

The last one is that way

<——————

Maybe genetically you lack proper skin thickness.

I’m sure somebody must’ve written volumes about that.

Out.

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@Sentient

Time to DJ….and go back in time with the Ultimate Red Pill back-track:

It’s got everything, hypergamy, epiphany, that beta to alpha transition….all summed up in one line:

“The girl that wants to run away, discovers that she’s had her day, it’s no good you’re thinking that you’re still mine.”

Yollo Comanche
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I love you Anon.

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By the way, Jordan Peterson spent some time in a dryout clinic to get all the way off of his pain killers and mood adjusters. His daughter tweeted out some things recently about it. I was tolerant of Peterson because in his lectures he actually attempted to encourage young men, unlike far too many other public figures who just grind men down to bits. However I lost interest in his writings because they were pretty shallow, and that whole lobster thing is a little wack. To find out that he’s been seriously habituated to some of these drugs confirms that… Read more »

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@Anonymous Reader “The whole lobster thing was a little whack” I’ve written a book that I haven’t published analysing JBP’s 12 rules, this is a bit about Lobsters: LOBSTERS Jordan Peterson explains that we have a lot of behaviors in common with those of Lobsters. He covers a few points including their mating behavior how they seek out shelter, and how the males sort out their hierarchy by fighting. In terms of mating and access to shelter apparently the top 20% of the males self select by fighting the other males and these are the ones that get quality shelter… Read more »

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The question is, how do we build a civilization that is stable? While it’s certainly true that “we cannot back into the future”, the current times smack of decline. There are numerous correlations to the fall of the Roman empire. Ethnic tensions, religious tensions, gender tensions. The state of politics in the West today. More polarized than ever: gone are the days of centrists and swing voters. With the feminization of politics, sexual strategies clash, mixed in with race-based tribal politics. If you accept there are certain immutable traits of human beings, then you accept there are certain fundamentals of… Read more »

kfg
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“How long can governments keep the lid on populism?”

As long as they can keep the populace voiceless and powerless.

Yollo Comanche
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@Nax

Hang on I’m on it. We all are. In fact, so are you.

IAS
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We can override certain things, but for some reason or other most of us don’t have that much willpower.

A good example is how tough it is to do a cold approach for the majority of guys.

Sentient
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NAS

More polarized than ever

Really? Ever? So far folks aren’t being dragged out I to the street and killed.

Give it some more time.

Sentient
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Scott

I’ve been visiting here more lately in the wake of Dalrocks departure–thinking I might get some of my fix for interesting, stimulating outside-the-overton window discussion satiated.

And your contribution to this is what?

The fact is most contrary views don’t have the chops to keep up their end. So it’s hit and run and move on.

Frankly the bots have done the best job as critics.

And they dont shit themselves and flame out like Ya…

Bots are going to replace you.

Sentient
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Palma

That’s not me being funny by the way, apparently the brain really does dissolve and it grows a new one.

Lots of posts about Ego recently. This fits.

Coolio
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Most of you people – (emphasis on the word “Most”) – are still on here – (some of you for years) – complaining about the same old shit – (over and over and over again).

Get up off your asses and go do something with yourselves.

Stop operating in the world of “Should Be” – and start operating in the world of “How It Is”.

You’ll get better results – and you’ll have more fun than sitting around complaining your life away.

Sentient
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Most of you people – (emphasis on the word “Most”) – are still on here – (some of you for years) – complaining about the same old shit – (over and over and over again).

Any evidence? Or just a drive by BS generalization?

Put up or shut up.

SJF
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Yer funny Coolio

I’ve been here awhile.

And I did a lot with myself.

And I don’t ever remember complaining about anything here.

And you’ve never mentioned a damn thing about yourself.

Why are you complaining about being here?

Coolio
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Sentiment(al). You’re one of the idiots.

Evidence. Plenty. You’re a fool.

Start going backwards with these articles as far as you want – and you’ll see the pattern.

You’re doing the same thing.

Coolio
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SJF.

I said “Most”. I didn’t specifically mention “You”. (Focus more on reading the statements).

And I’m not complaining. I’m stating factual information. Go backwards through these articles and see for yourself.

Scott
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Sentient
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Coolio

Look fag. You’ve been called out. Evidence to back up your statement or STFU.

You say I’m one of the idiots. So it should be easy to chronicle my repetitive complaints.

Go ahead. Prove it.

Fag.

Sentient
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Scott

So that’s it? Posting a link is your contribution to elevated discourse?

Mmm K.

Scott
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Sentient-

Its a link to my own blog post about the topic of the interaction between biology and environmental bases for behavior. (Instead of a giant wall of text comment)

You don’t have to read it, its a “free” country.

Sentient
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You should note that then upfront.

I did read it. So you are kinda sorta nature. OK. Easy enought to say without 1000 words.

Sentient
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Coolio has gone quiet…

How about that?

Scott
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I’m not sure I can meet your standards for brevity v verbosity.

On the one hand, my link was characterized as being essentially intellectually lazy and too short. But then upon reading the link (which I wrote) it was seen as long winded and verbose.

Perhaps you could give me a precise word limit for expressing the content I meant to convey?

Sentient
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Scott

Perhaps you could like just say what’s on your mind instead of a) complaining about the level of discourse and b) shilling your blog on the sly?

How about that?

Sentient
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BTW I didn’t dislike your blog post, just found it wishy washy. What’s the point of that?

Anonymous Reader
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Sentient
I did read it. So you are kinda sorta nature

You’re being obnoxious and dumb.
Scott’s walked a lot of walk. Look further at his site and you can see some of it.

Cool down your jets.

Sentient
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AR

Who made you mod?

Scott can speak for himself.

Anonymous Reader
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Sentient
Perhaps you could like just say what’s on your mind instead of a) complaining about the level of discourse

Maybe he’s got cabin fever.

and b) shilling your blog on the sly

You ask him a question, he answers by pointing to an essay he already wrote, rather than putting a wall of text. Now you complain because “shilling blog”.

What do you want from the man…fried ice?
lol.

All of this makes me miss Ton, his contributions were short and to the point.

Sentient
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AR

maybe he’s got cabin fever

Who cares

Re shiiling – if you are touting your prior effort, say so up front.

Not hard.

” as I outlined in my post” will suffice.

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Sentient

Who made you mod?

Same question back atcha. Well?

Scott can speak for himself.

Lol, butthurt much? Too proud to learn from anyone else now?

Scott
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Well, I am not sure I am tracking “shilling” for my blog. I guess readers can gauge that for themselves. Theres a lot of crossover between readers here and at Dalrock, so I assume many are aware of what I am all about. On the matter of my observations re: discourse. My sense is there are quite a few manospherians/red pill regular commenters who conflate telling difficult truths with being obtuse for the sake of shock. I think I understand where it comes from, but it is off putting. Its this sort of “we’re men so we don’t hold any… Read more »

Sentient
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Scott

Why not try to figure out ways to engage in these conversations, which are already pretty difficult civilly?

Ah yes… “Give me exactly what I want exactly how I want it or I’m going to leave”…

Seen it before.

Look Scott – if you think your reputation precedes you, you may want to rethink that.

If you have something you want to convey, convey it. And we can get to it.

Blind posting a link to your blog… Very ASD of you…

Scott
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One of the immutable truths about commenting on internet blogs is, even if you “win” by being the most obnoxious writer while shitting on someone who is generally trying to be polite, you are still retarded. The comments section here has become 5 guys (assuming they are male) thumping their chests and chasing off anyone they think is a beta chump who can’t keep up with the gay smack talking. And they can apparently diagnose ASD with just a tiny but of non-clinical information! It kind of makes sense to me why Rollo has basically abandoned the blog to a… Read more »

Blaximus
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Oh for the love of xrist.

D alrock please stay online so I won’t have to read anymore ” over at dalrock’s blog… “.

Imo, hard to ” have discussion ” when being told to research what other people you don’t agree with have written.

Scott wants agreement, not discussions. Please, no wall of text.

People have different skilksets. If you’re a reader mostly, stick to that. Other people’s theories can be interesting up to a point, and someone else, having witnessed where these dumb fucking discussions usually head would rather skip it.

So you win, we’re idiots.

K?

Night.

Coolio
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Sentiment(al).

You are a complete and total blockhead.

It’s not required for me to prove anything.

You are providing your own proof for yourself.

Every time you open your mouth – you make yourself out to be more of a complete and total idiot.

Please continue.

SJF
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@Coolio

You are a dick.

And your comments are worthless.

Never have you commented anything of value. If you think you have, you only relied on your grandiosity. Which is a fiction.

Can you whine more please?

Prove yourself wrong.

Go ahead and post something of value.

I dare you. But won’t wait.

You got nothing.

And I agree with Scott. Rollo has been neglecting his blog.

And it is a free-for-all.

All those promises to turn it into a forum. (which are super hard to maintain…)

And this? Devolution?

Coolio
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SJF.

I previously hailed you as one of the few people on here that looked like they had their shit together.

Maybe I need to reconsider that.

It doesn’t happen very often – but I do make a mistake every now and then.

Walawala
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Walawala
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What’s going on? I miss something ?

Coolio
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Walawala.

Yes.

You missed Sentiment(al) making a fool out of himself.

PalmaSailor
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@Nax Ramblings Over Sunday morning cofvefee. The question is, how do we build a civilization that is stable? I don’t think we can. I think outright civil war is just about baked into the stats now. In fact if you don’t think that one ethnicity of people being mowed down by the lorries of peace or hacked to bits by machete wielding Martyrs in the streets is civil war (or even Jihad) then you’ve been watching too much BBC. The woke are taking too much security for granted for instance the continued ability of the state to recruit and train… Read more »

PalmaSailor
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“Women will be looking to join the surviving tribe and I’m not sure many would get into ours.”

Probably how harems occurred historically.

Oxytoxin
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Long time lurker, first time poster. @ Rollo Your fantastic work has been invaluable to me for the process of rebuilding myself after two traumatic relationships. Reading TRM, your books, as well as other red pill material connected so many dots for me, helped me tremendously in my understanding of intersexual dynamics, rediscovering my MPO, recovering from a severe depression and / or PTSD induced by a relationship with a heavily disordered cluster B woman, and the imprinting resulting from being raised by a narcistic single mother. Thank you so much for your work. So please do not take the… Read more »

Oxytoxin
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shit, I apologize for the unreadable wall of text – all the formatting has gone after hitting the “post comment” button, and I seem not to be able to edit the post

Yollo Comanche
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Women join the “winning tribe” but women also join the tribe that treats them best. When queefs feel like “their” women are looking at greener pastures, they don’t beat them up, they go cold and distant. That’s another way to get women to leave you. When women think nothing they do works, they get sick of trying. So it doesn’t matter how much you tell yourself that being aloof makes you “alpha”. The person doing it is both what they look like AND their mindset. Also the people that keep dreading being abandoned by “their” women are usually self-defeaters anyway.… Read more »

PalmaSailor
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@Yollo

I said “surviving tribe” not “winning tribe”

Yollo Comanche
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@palma

Ah fuck. Well it’s early.

Yollo Comanche
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Yes Goddammit! Yes!

@Scott

I haven’t called you a fag…

@Sentient

You already have all your shit. Let him have his. He’s gonna have it anyway.

Blaximus
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There will never be a utopian civilization. I love history. Real history ( not that pablum fed to people in schools). One recurring theme over millennia is descending societies oft become blinded by their own success. They begin to believe they are infallible and always right. Otherwise how could we have been this strong and successful? So when they become corrupted ( many start as corrupted ), they cannot course correct. The telltale sign of the oncoming collapse is usually violent rebellion or revolution, but sometimes that society/culture/civilization just fades into relative obscurity. Lol, then successive societies will rise up… Read more »

PalmaSailor
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@Yollo You’re fundamentally misunderstanding what I’m saying. You’re still thinking from the position of a socially secure system where women have options defended by the state and law. The idea the police won’t protect you is unthinkable right? I’m talking about a position where the state and law has degenerated and is impotent in the face of the physical threats. In most of Europe, Mathematically, if things escalated that’s probably now. I don’t know about the US. In this instance women will need the protection of the surviving tribe (the one that is still alive). At this point it will… Read more »

Sentient
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Scott “while shitting on someone who is generally trying to be polite, ” Aww. Your feels are hurt? Because I point out you bleating about discourse and then provide a link to what turns out to be your own blog and when that is pointed out as being wishy washy you get the sads? OK. Snowflake. “chasing off anyone they think is a beta chump who can’t keep up with the gay smack talking.” This is fascinating. As a psych person you would agree. Is it that you truly believe that you ARE a beta chump? That’s my bet. But… Read more »

Sentient
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Blax

Sbowflake cleanup in aisle 7…

Seriously how do NuMales function in the real world? Can you imagine these guys working 8 hours on a loading doc, a framing crew, a trading floor – let alone a Boardroom.

⛄😛

Yollo

“You already have all your shit. Let him have his. ”

Still waiting to find out if you are the olde Yollo or an impoaster…

But you know how this goes. What’s mine is mine and what’s yours is mine.

Sentient
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Oxytoxin

Great poast. Scott should take notes.

Blaximus
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Sentient 😂 I’m all for ” higher edumacation ” and whatnot, but weaker men isn’t supposed to be the outcome. Yesterday I had a guy come by to replace roof shingles that had blown off during one of the dozen wind and rainstorms we’ve had lately. I wasn’t going up there at my age, as my home is 3 stories tall. This guy showed up by himself. It was 33 degrees with a light persistent wind. He got his ladder, scaled it, gave me an estimate, and got to work. Alone, no gloves even. He replaced 20 shingles as he… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
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@Palma

…..Oh shit. Yeah you’re right. But right in a way I simply didn’t prioritize. Thank you I have more to look at now.

Yollo Comanche
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@Blax

4 individuals and counting.

PalmaSailor
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@Blax

“I’m all for ” higher edumacation ” and whatnot, but weaker men isn’t supposed to be the outcome”

You sure about that ? 😏

wahoo Mcdaniels
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From the OP “More and more we’re going to see a return to the old order religions, metaphysics and tribalism as the generations that cannot keep pace with human advancement seek meaning and consolation.” True enough,the constant reeducation to keep pace with high tech greed is annoying. They are also joining to keep pace with the social unrest for strength in numbers of “like minded individuals”. “As a result we’ll also see a new virtue signaling and ego-investments in the power of the self, freewill and mindful consciousness.” This virtue signaling is very annoying as well even to their women.… Read more »

Blaximus
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Palma

Good point.

Yollo Comanche
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@Sentient

If I have YOU, I have what’s yours too.

PalmaSailor
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@Oxytocin

“Nearly impossible to explore the concept of free will with all its relevant tangents in a short post,”

Welcome, and feel free to write a longer one.

Much longer if necessary, the peanut gallery don’t have to click “read more”.

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