Vestiges

vestiges

The greatest inconsistency that most people discussing Social Darwinism fall into is the “survival of the fittest” falacy. Nowhere in any of Darwin’s writtings will you ever see this terminology refered to in the context of natural selection. It’s not survival of the fitest, it is survival of the species best able to adapt to it’s changing conditions and environments. Dinosaurs ruled the earth as the preeminent species for eons (far longer than humans). Then in the relative blink of an eye, they were extinct because a radical environmental change, for which they were, biologically, completely unprepared wiped them out wholesale. They simply couldn’t adapt to that environment.

This is what people fail to see; adaptation is the coin of the realm in evolution. 68% of the population in the U.S. is overweight, not because of “bad” genes, but because the environment has changed and people have adapted to it. Our bodies naturally store fat. We evolved from a necessity to do so since food sources were scarce in our biological past, however now the environment has changed. Food is too abundant, too convenient, too calorie dense, etc. for us not to be fat. Our metabolism favors carbohydrates over protien and stored fat, why? Because our environmental reality thousands of years ago meant that a good sugar kick made for a better chance of evading a predator. Now this biological legacy only makes us fatter when you can buy ding dongs at any 7-11.

Legacies

With regards to monogamy or polygyny, essentially what we’re observing in this era is a result of a restructuring of adaptive methodologies to account for changes in our environment. Single motherhood, readily available forms of birth control, greater potential for security provisioning for men and women that isn’t based on physical prowess, etc. Yet, in light of all that we still struggle with the legacy of our biological pasts.

Men and women, biologically, have different methodologies for reproduction. It is in a woman’s biological best interest to mate with the genetically superior male best able to provide long term provisioning for her and any potential offspring. Again, it is in her best interest to find a man best fitted to share in parental investment. This is due to her comparatively prolonged period of gestation (9 months), the rigors of rearing a child to self-sufficiency (at least adolescence) as well as her own insured survival. They ovulate in a 28 day cycle and are at a peak of feritlity 5-7 years after puberty. They posess a limited number of eggs and become biologically inviable after a certain age (at or around menopause). Their hormone and endorphin biochemistry also reflect this reproductive schema; they produce in bulk oxytocin and estrogen, both responsible for prompting feelings of nurturing as well as serving as buffers for sexual indescretions. At the peak of their menstrual cycles they produce more testosterone in preparation for sexual activity and in the low periods produce more estrogens and progesterones. In addition, both during and after pregnancy they produce high levels of progesterone and oxytocin, both primary in engendering feelings of love and nuturement for offspring.

Men’s methodologies are much different. Biologically, we produce 12.5 times the amount of testosterone than women. As a result we have higher accuity of vision, hearing and touch. We have more muscularity, lean towards feelings of aggression in preference to sadness. And of course we are easily prompted to a state of sexual arousal – we’re always ready for it in our natural state. We produce millions of reproductive cells daily and are sexually viable until very late in life. Our reproductive methodology revolves around “spreading the seed” as indiscriminately as possible. Ours is quanity, women’s is quality.

Now, having done the break down of this, you can see the conflict in mating methods; thus enters adaptive sociological and psychological mechanisms to regulate this process. Thus, being social animals, we introduce ethics, morality and implied responsibilities to buffer both methodolgies. In our biological past, sexual arousal in both men and women was mitigated by physical prowess. Large breasts in women, an appropriate hips to waist ratio, physical symetry in both sexes, muscularity in men, physical manifestations of testosterone (square jaw for example) etc. we’re the call signs for sexual activity. Physicality was (and still is) the primary motivator for sexual activity and this is literally encoded into our genetics.

However, as society progressed, conditions and environments changed, thus social adaptation changed. A lot of freshly unplugged guy’s make an astute observation in this progression – Why is it that women are still hot for:

  • Celebrities
  • Musicians
  • Criminals
  • Drug dealers
  • Daredevils and risk-takers

Social proof began to become a secondary consideration for intimate acceptance (from a female mating methodology) for women as society progressed. Physical prowess, while still a primary sexual attractor and indicator of prefered genetics, didn’t necessarily ensure a continued committment to parental investment. Men and women’s reproductive methodologies have always been in a see-saw balance since we began as hunter-gatherer tribal societies. As society (see environment) changed other factors for parental investment became important. Artists became attractive bcause they possessed creative intelligence and this was manifested in their creative abilities to solve problems. When you see the broke musician with the dutiful girlfriend this is that legacy at work.

Social proof and intersexual competition, while always present, began to move into the psychological. It was far more efficient for women to compete for a desirable male covertly – usually by not confirming his acceptance – than to do so overtly. As society further progressed, male competition moved away from the physical and into a provisioning capacity. A drug dealer and a high powered corporate executive could both be “alpha” males – both have high social proof and provisioning capacity – albeit in different social strata.

Polygyny and Monogamy are natural human methodologies. Polygyny serves a mans biological imperative better, while monogamy serves a woman’s better. The conflict arises when either is compromised. A single man who’s non-exclusively dating is essentially in a state of polygyny, while a married woman is in her prefered state of secured monogamy. Either sex must surrender their prefered methodology to accommodate the other’s. This is why, socially, we have stages in our modern lives where one is exercised over another.

Animal Planet

I was recently watching an animal planet special on dogs and cats that compared their “domestic” behaviors with those of their wild counterparts, like preadatory cats and wolves. Not so surpisingly a dog will instinctively do circles and tramp down his bed in exactly the same fashion as a wolf will his sleeping area. So too will cats cover up their own excrement, burying it so predators wont catch their scent so readily, just like house cats will. To us, these and many other behaviors seem cute, but entirely unnecessary for domesticated animals to habitually perform. One would think that after literally thousands of years of domestication, as well as selective breeding, these behaviors would be less prominent or entirely “bred out” of them, but this is obviously not the case. They are hardwired, unlearned behaviors that are imprinted into them from birth that proved to be valuable in their species’ survival over the course of generations.

Using this analogy, how much more complex are our behaviors and the motivations behind them? There are many global studies that compare physical features in attraction across culture and race for both sexes that show very frequent commonalities for physical attraction. Broad shoulders, squared jawline and chest to waist ratio in men and symetry of facial features, breast size and hips to waist ratios in women are universal attractors for each respective sex. In fact the very common propensity for women to exclude men shorter than themselves from their consideration for intimacy is specifically derived from what evolutioanry psychologists call vestigial sexual selection.

Bear in mind this is attraction and how our subconscious interprets external cues for prompting desire. You see a naked woman in Playboy and the result is a hard on. External prompt – biological response, pure and simple. That’s a quick and easy one, but there’s a variety of other reponses that occur too – quickening of heart rate, release of hormones and endorphines, dialation of pupils, flushing of skin, etc. Again this is a reaction that was unlearned and part of our chemical make up.

A lot of frustration most men and women endure in our modern socio-sexual education is the result of a psychological attempt to reconcile the vestigial behaviors and predilections of our feral past with the need for adaptation in our present environment. Hypergamy is the prime directive for women, but precious few are cognitively aware of it, and even the ones who may be still find themselves subject to it. Hypergamy is a vestigial, mental subroutine running in women’s peripheral awarenesses. So vital was this species survival methodology in our past that it had to become part of a woman’s limbic understanding of herself.

So when these processes are brought into our awareness (i.e. feminine hypergamy, male polygyny, etc.) we tend to play them down or dismiss them wholesale. Sometimes the truths of these vestiges are ugly – in fact the reason we find them uncomfortable or offensive is the result of a societal effort to keep them under the surface in ourselves. They offend our sense of justice, or notions of equitability, but they did serve to bring us to where we are now as a society.

A lot of critics of evo-psych (in particular), as well as the revealers of some of the more unsettling aspects of human social and sexual evolution, like to start their criticisms by conflating the revelations of these dynamics with condoning  the behaviors that are results of them. Yes, hypergamy, in all its permutations, can be a very ugly truth to witness, but exposing it, attempting to understand it, is not tantamount to endorsing it. Human beings can’t handle too much reality, so the recourse is to attempt to stuff the Genie back into the bottle. Being aware of our feral natures and attempting to deconstruct the vestiges of those we deal with today is not the same as expecting absolution from the consequences of them.

Just because you know the reasons for your behaviors doesn’t grant you a license to engage in them. Yet neither should anyone be discouraged from legitimate inquiry into the natures of our primal selves for fear of the shame that others would want to apply to you to ease their own discomfort.

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YOHAMI
Guest

on point.

Student of the Game
Guest
Student of the Game

I swallowed the red pill recently, but it’s been difficult for me to accept this reality gracefully.

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy

I’d guess most women simply have no concept of their own innate hypergamy and I’d venture the reasons for this are numerous. In fact, Young Single Women + Facebook does more to expose this behavior than anything else, making condemnation of any intellectual endeavor to do so little more than whining.

M3
Guest

For a lot of blue guys, it still sucks tho. With all the base requirement of hypergamy sated in the ‘civilized’ world (independence, voting, rights, work, income, government assistance, protection, legal supremacy, provisioning, etc..) you’d think women would curb it, just like men naturally subdue their own form of hypergamy every single day (your last post regarding SSM’s horror) ..but they ramp it up. It’s like the goalposts changed, and we have a new starting benchmark from where to proceed. Your previous commenter Kate was one such type. Had her own business, or she was a teacher, i cant recall.… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest

“Where hypergamy was sated by joe average with a decent job, stability and provisioning” If that was the case feminism wouldnt have happened, cheating and cuckholding wouldnt have existed, game wouldnt work, and females in other species would go for the lesser males as long as they are good enough. Instead every girl is set for the “best”. The best you can get now is not necessarily the best you can get later. A woman sated with a man now doesnt mean she will be sated with him later. Hypergamy doesnt stop, because it’s a biological drive. And the same… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest

If anything I would remove the laws and everything else enforcing that men provide for stranger girls and remove any resemblance of bias favoring men’s or women’s drives. Nothing is sacred, and nothing is evil. The girl getting wet at the local celebrity is the same as the guy getting a boner at a hot girl. Sex and status. We already deep down understand all of that. I would just remove the lies and the fake enforcements and the charade.

YOHAMI
Guest

See, guys looking at the past and thinking… “oh boy, before this mess women had no money, so they had to settle with average guys like me” actually makes me sympathize with the libertarian aspect of feminism.

Because it’s the equivalent of fat women wanting to make every girl just as fat, so men have no options and no say on the matter and no expectations.

Yeah. We’re in the jungle. So what. Where did you think you were?

Kate
Guest
Kate

It is possible to override hypergamy. Its just neither fun nor easy, which is why its so uncommon.

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy

I’m not sure I understand what you mean Kate. Perhaps it was because of how I was raised, or years of being beta, but being loyal and reliable to the people I care about is the only way I can have any self-respect. Are you speaking of overriding hypergamy after it’s fully inflamed in someone?

YOHAMI
Guest

Kate, do you mean taming your desire, or something else?

Anna
Guest
Anna

Once again, very good points. I’ve recently been reading up on evolution, in reference to both psychology and biology, mostly because I’m trying to find answers about myself and other outliers (of both sexes). There are differences between the sexes that make sensewhen looked at from an evolutionary perspective, even if they may seem odd or even “unfair” to us today. Some kinder examples would be that men are able to hear deep noises better and are more likely to immediately see movement in a busy environment like a forest. This is most likely a throwback to days of hunting,… Read more »

Anna
Guest
Anna

@Yohami

I like where you’re going with this.

Hey There
Guest
Hey There

Great article Rollo, but you know what is more discomforting than uncomfortable truths of human nature? The photo at the top of this article…

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy

Some kinder examples would be that men are able to hear deep noises better and are more likely to immediately see movement in a busy environment like a forest.

A better way to say this is that men are better able to recognize patterns and deviations from that pattern in both the audible and visual mediums. Again this stems from needing to recognize the sound of prey/predators in a noisy jungle/savanna/forest/etc…, and the sight of well camouflaged prey/predators in that same environment.

M3
Guest

Not saying you’re wrong Yohami. Agree with pretty much most everything you’re saying.

I’m saying society didn’t get to where it did by following the law of the jungle. The next chapter of human civilization is about to take place, and for many, they’re not going to like where it goes.

That’s what i meant about the blue’s being unable to adapt. Extinction level events are rarely pretty and painful to watch.

I respect human nature. I respect it like i respect dynamite. I’m very aware of what can occur when you treat it without care.

Robert
Guest
Robert

A really good ev psych text is Robert Wright’s “The Moral Animal”, which i think is a good wedge for people in blue pill world. Once they take on board the premises presented there, accepting the SMP becomes much easier.

Anna
Guest
Anna

@Jeremy

Fair enough, but how would you rephrase my female examples then? I agree with you, but was trying to write in the most simplistic fashion. Just curious…

Anna
Guest
Anna

@Hey There

It almost looks like some of Patricia Paccinini’s work. She makes wonderful/realistic animal-human hybrid sculptures…most of which serve to creep me the f**k out. It’s like a different level of the “uncanny valley” we sometimes see in human-like robots.

YOHAMI
Guest

Yeah. Im not very happy with where civilization got though. I’d say that it was the law of the jungle, just a different subset. The law of the stronger / the oppressor, the capital, big fish eats small fish. Now we see the rise of the smaller fish eating the big fish corpse and other stuff… and we celebrate when it comes to our own benefit, like with the internet and the dismembering of mainstream… you know, the old system also didnt form like this. We didnt have this “freedom”. This chaos. But ah… “civilization wasnt build like this! this… Read more »

Kate
Guest
Kate

Yes, I mean conquer it.

Mebus
Guest
Mebus

Will the current knowledge base of Game and redpill-ism be enough as a male adaptation in the coming age of super-hypergamy or will it be necessary to shed any sense of morality and become a drug dealer/thug/criminal instead?

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy

@Anna, I would say that the color range of female vision is undoubtedly higher. But I wouldn’t say they hear high noises better, Women are simply more attuned to human emotion as it relates to what is and is not vocalized. I’ve known women who simply by instinct could tell you from across the room what the social situation was at any given table in a restaurant, just by observing body language and hearing the voice stress. They couldn’t explain how they could do this, they just could. Men could generally not give a flying f about body language or… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest

Kate, can you elaborate on that? Im guessing that you mean that you dont follow your sexual desires unreflexively, that you dont chase high status cock like a teenager (anymore?), that maybe you dont cheat… etc?

Say. A man can “control” his actions and not cheat, not approach, not… etc. Not acting on the desire. The desire to fuck whatever hot girl is there though.

Chama
Guest
Chama

I know, it has nothing to do with current post. I just wanted to share this with you.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/30/times-of-india-mahood-definition-ad-respect-women_n_2583588.html

[So would it stand to reason that a woman who doesn’t respect a man is only half a woman?]

Kate
Guest
Kate

The desire might be there, but it can be blocked. Knowing how it works helps to defeat it. It become dormant, I suppose. Hypergamy in remission.

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

@Mebus, you’re thinking in binary terms. Understanding the mechanics of intergender dynamics doesn’t mean your ultimate choice must be between asshole sociopath or sniveling beta doormat.

Upping the Alpha doesn’t mean offing the empathy.
https://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2013/01/17/mister-softee/

Game doesn’t mean learning sociopathy – it means learning control of one’s psychology.

YOHAMI
Guest

Kate, are you in a relationship / married / single? if you’re in a relationship, how does controlling hypergamy help? and if you’re single, how does controlling your desire to catch high status man help you looking for a partner / father?

Something doesnt compute 🙂

Maybe we’re really taking about impulse control and long term vision – different traits. If you pair impulse control and long term vision to any basic animal drive you make those drives “better”, as in, work better for you.

FuriousFerret
Guest
FuriousFerret

“The desire might be there, but it can be blocked. Knowing how it works helps to defeat it. It become dormant, I suppose. Hypergamy in remission.” Guys have a similar scenario when they have an ugly wife and give up their hooker/porn vice out of guilt. They still want prostitutes and porn but some manage to suppress it due to trying to follow their moral code. It’s just that if a guy is chained to a heffer or a woman is stuck with a beta herb, eventually the levee breaks and they give in. I believe in the past, suppressing… Read more »

Kate
Guest
Kate

34, divorced four years after ten years with ex-husband for whom I was a virgin, 6 year old daughter, single

If you’re in a relationship, controlling hypergamy means you don’t cheat no matter how much you might want to. If you’re single, it means turning down offers by high value men if you know there’s no future and you’ll only end up hurt.

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

Kate, you’re conflating desire with behavior. You can control the manifestations of your desire (behavior), but you either have a genuine desire or you don’t.

Whether or not you engage in a behavior doesn’t negate the desire to engage in it.

YOHAMI
Guest

Kate, got it. Controlling the urge to act on the desire is different than controlling the desire itself though. Semantics. If you were controlling hypergamy you wouldnt be turning offers from high status men on the basis that there’s no future – the status wouldnt be a part of the question to begin with. You would be attracted to a man regardless of status.

Do you think that’s possible by the way? can you separate power and it’s aggregates (dominance, confidence, etc) from attraction?

M3
Guest

“On a very personal level, I dont find comfort on thinking that a woman is with me because I can provide for her”

Cosign. 100%

“Chemicals make you say shit. ”
It’s funny you mention this. It’s in my really offensive post i’m about to put up. heheh.

You’re right, civilization always happens, it goes through periods and phases, high and lows, orders and reorders. Kind of like the earth itself and ice ages to ‘reset’ the balance. But under it all, the law of the jungle continues to operate.

“Now how unhappy do you think people were in the old system?”
Which era?

Chama
Guest
Chama

@Rollo
“So would it stand to reason that a woman who doesn’t respect a man is only half a woman?” that is the exact question I asked myself.

I just posted it here to share how absurd that Ad is. that is all.

YOHAMI
Guest

M3, which era? it was a rethorical question bro. I dont know. Im guessing that the happiness overall is peaking right now, if we measure on statistical comfort levels only. But if we base it on self-reported happiness… then it depends on the ability to perceive contrast / aspire to something else of such era. I’d say the more a society shares the same beliefs the happier they are as a whole, regardless of the practices and values of such beliefs. But. If the training goes heavily against base instincts there should be a lot of unhappiness… even if it… Read more »

Kate
Guest
Kate

“Controlling the urge to act on the desire is different than controlling the desire itself though.” Okay, I see what you’re saying.

“Do you think that’s possible by the way? can you separate power and it’s aggregates (dominance, confidence, etc) from attraction?”
I don’t know. I was going to say if two people were in isolation, but I’m not sure even then.

Anna
Guest
Anna

@Jeremy I agree with 99% of what you are saying…but I’m fairly confident that woman can hear higher ranges of sounds, just as men can hear lower ones. I’ll try to find an actual scientific link to back this up though, since I’m curious where I read it now too. It’s entirely possible that I’m unintentionally drawing from my own experiences too much. I can hear the noises that computers/fluorescent lights/consoles/televisions make when they’re on, and have done various experiments with my male friends/coworkers to prove I wasn’t bullshiting them. Out of these 26 people, I’m the only female AND… Read more »

JS
Guest
JS

YOHAMI, “Not sure why you would want that though. What is exactly the point? you want to stop hypergamy… do you also want to stop boning after hot girls?” The problem is that women will gladly share a high status man. You end up with de facto and/or de jure polygamy. In such a society the vast number of men will be without access to women or children. Such a society where most of the men need to fight over the few available females are barbaric. Monogamy ensures each man has access to a woman and eliminates destructive social problems… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest

JS, “The problem is that women will gladly share a high status man.” Actually they dont. They share him for sure, but not without a bloody and never ending fight. “In such a society the vast number of men will be without access to women or children.” So what? “Such a society where most of the men need to fight over the few available females are barbaric. ” We live in such society already. Iphones are still being produced. “Monogamy ensures each man has access to a woman” I understand that, but it’s not true. And if indeed you get… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest

*cheated on, cuckholded AND being denied sex from your wife… that you adquired thanks to social norms that granted you such a pleasant companionship, to which you would respond by cheating to a woman that is attracted to you due to his hypergamy.

All of this sounds like “civilization” though.

YOHAMI
Guest

*to which you would respond by cheating WITH a woman who has hypergamy for you.

BPaul.
Guest
BPaul.

“If you’re in a relationship, controlling hypergamy means you don’t cheat no matter how much you might want to.” – Kate. The question is why would one be in a relationship? If one considers the the FourSirensOfTheSexualApocalypse the future of relationships is going to get complicated, why do we think relationships as spelled out today be what they are in the future, even near future. We are heading down a path evolution hasn’t seen, women with their own agency for provisioning, the consequences are unknown. http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/06/01/sexual-dystopia-a-glimpse-at-the-future/ “Just because you know the reasons for your behaviors doesn’t grant you a license… Read more »

M3
Guest

““and eliminates destructive social problems that result from many men struggling violently against the extinction of their genes.” Hey, men and society also benefit from competition. I take that you’re rooting for a sexual communism here. I wouldnt want to take a part on it.” THIS. Was the hardest part for me to get over when i was still blue. You couldn’t use better terminology here with communism. If everyone gets a guarantee of a woman, no one works to improve themselves, no competition, no struggle everyone stagnates. Why improve? I would reckon that the fact there are so many… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy

@Anna It’s entirely possible that I’m unintentionally drawing from my own experiences too much. I can hear the noises that computers/fluorescent lights/consoles/televisions make when they’re on, and have done various experiments with my male friends/coworkers to prove I wasn’t bullshiting them. Out of these 26 people, I’m the only female AND the only one who can hear these noises. Since I don’t have any female friends and don’t talk much to my female coworkers, I’ve always just thought it was a female trait…but maybe it’s a “me” trait? This is a different trait and not tied to any particular sex.… Read more »

Anna
Guest
Anna

@Yohami @M3 This. 100% this. Not only are your points completely valid and awesome, but I’ll also point out that about 7% of the US is homosexual, and about 1% of it is women/men like myself who don’t want or strive for a relationship. Add in any people who are voluntarily celibate, who are widows/widowers who no longer want “in” on the SMP, or people who are too young to have a actual relationship. Thus, you now have a fair chunk of the population who can’t or won’t be included in this One to One ratio. (And I’m sure I’ve… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy

I now want a T-shirt that says, “Your 5 minutes of Alpha are up.”

It works in so many ways…

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy

@JS

The problem is that women will gladly share a high status man.

Not really, no. I think you’re generalizing women far too much with that statement. Most women want to feel special, if they know their alpha is dating other women, it’s just a matter of time before they leave him (the fact that women have hypergamy doesn’t mean they don’t have self-respect).

Anna
Guest
Anna

@Jeremy

That’s pretty awesome…I’ve never met anyone else who knew what the frick I was referring to. I stand corrected then. By any weird chance, (and this is purely for my own research) do you also have ASMR aka Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response? I’m trying to put together some data via people I’ve spoken to on Youtube and would love to know your experience (or lack thereof).

YOHAMI
Guest

“if they know their alpha is dating other women, it’s just a matter of time before they leave him”

The story of my life.

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy

@Anna That’s so weird… Yes I do have that. I’ve never tried to describe it to anybody, I just honestly dismissed it from any further thought a long time ago, but I still get it. Most times I get that, it’s a cognitive response to learning something new from direct instruction. It doesn’t happen too often. At one point I started thinking it meant I was gay, but there’s a good reason for that (I no longer think this obviously). I studied physics in college and hence most of my professors were male, so when I got that ASMR, it… Read more »

Lion
Guest
Lion

I was perfectly happy being monogamous with my wife until she cheated on me 10 years into our marriage. It was a real challenge for me to mentally take her down from the pedestal, fantasize about other women, and explore other women sexually. However, it was necessary for my own sanity to overcome that “oneitis.” I can no longer allow myself to become that connected to any one woman ever again. The deep pain of being let down was just way too enormous. I suppose that if I wasn’t so attached and devoted to my wife all those years, I… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy

@Anna

The Wikipedia page for ASMR describes my responses nearly perfectly. I have no doubt that I experience what you mentioned.

Tilikum
Guest

I don’t want to alarm anyone, but dude has a tail. Who cares what the article says, holy hell.

M3
Guest

“I don’t want to alarm anyone, but dude has a tail. Who cares what the article says, holy hell.”

I’m pretty sure that it’s a she.. and even with the tail..

8/10 would bang.

I’d rather fuck a slim babe with a tail than an actual dog like Dworkin.

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy

M3, I would think you’d still be cautious after the blonde-in-the-shop mistake recently… She could be 50+

anotheronetakesthepill
Guest

1st: English is not my language but there are a lot of typos which you usually don’t make. What happened? 2nd: The difference between older generation and ours cannot just be the fact that the amount of available men to choose from has raised drastically for every women? I mean, how many men had our mothers/grandmothers to choose from? It was usually one in their neighborhood who would make it to the altar. Today girls are trying to look for the best genetic material all around the world, be it at home, while traveling, through meeting strangers on the internet.… Read more »

Anna
Guest
Anna

@M3 I’d heed Jeremy’s warnings if I were you…although I guess you could try for a gender reversal of that guy on “Shallow Hal”. Might be interesting, lol. @Jeremy No, I really understand how you might confuse your ASMR with being gay. I’ve experienced this first when I was about 5 or 6 years old, watching Bob Ross videos with my grandmother. While in puberty (ages 10-15) I definitely noticed that the feelings were…stronger, and had slight sexual overtones. Now I’m 27, and still get those feelings but they’re no longer sexual…just calming and “fuzzy”. Like I said before, I’m… Read more »

Johnycomelately
Guest
Johnycomelately

“Just because you know the reasons for your behaviors doesn’t grant you a license to engage in them.” The funny thing is that the ancients were well aware of our feral natures and warded against giving in to ‘temptation’. An old Christian prayer has this line, “Loose me from mine unworthiness…. if I have thought evil, seen the beauty of another and been wounded thereby in my heart.” Nowadays that is translated into, “You can’t help who you fall in love with.” Family, children, husbands and morals be damned. Sure, sometimes you meet someone (even if your in a marriage… Read more »

imnobody
Guest
imnobody

Sorry, Yohami, but it’s easy to say “we are living in the jungle” while you are living in a US city with a quality of life 99% of people having lived in history could only dream of. I live in Central America (and I have been favored by the feral instincts of women, because hypergamy works in favor of a foreigner like me). There is no lack of women for people like me. But, if you want to go to the jungle, I can show you some villages in the country I live without water, power or Internet. Let see… Read more »

FuriousFerret
Guest
FuriousFerret

@imnobody

I’m pretty sure that Yohami is from Argentina and I think he might still live there.

YOHAMI
Guest

imnobody, offtopic, but I live in Argentina and was raised in venezuela. At many points I was poor as in, poor enough to live on the streets (didnt thanks to friends who would host me for days or weeks), but I managed to climb

YOHAMI
Guest

lived two years in la candelaria, with drug dealers and shootings and shit. I know poverty, though, this is all unrelated. we’re all in the jungle because we’re animals, and we’re all driven by base instincts.

YOHAMI
Guest

where are you btw? let’s make a meetup with guys in the area

M3
Guest

If you subscribe to Vox’s “Team Civilization”.. understanding human nature is one thing, giving into it and submitting to hedonism at the expense of the tribe will ultimately collapse societies, as many an empire can attest. Of course humanity will go on, in some new form and life will go on. If anyone remembers Babylon 5, it’s like watching the Vorlons and the Shadows fight. Order vs. Chaos. Advance by working together for the common good or knock the anthill over and let the ants build a bigger, stronger anthill. There’s a metaphor in there somewhere. We seem to be… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest

M3, not sure what the Team Civilization is about. I played Civilization on the PC though. I killed plundered mined destroyed and built, and then won by launching atomic bombs. It was a lot of fun.

Emma the Emo
Guest

I really like these latest articles. Especially this: “Just because you know the reasons for your behaviors doesn’t grant you a license to engage in them. Yet neither should anyone be discouraged from legitimate inquiry into the natures of our primal selves for fear of the shame that others would want to apply to you to ease their own discomfort.” I see more often that manosphere writers commit the naturalistic fallacy. For example by stating that a cheating man is doing nothing morally wrong. Or that dating a girl over 21 has elements of moral wrongness… I wish they didn’t… Read more »

Matthew King (King A)
Guest

Is it wrong for me to be turned on by the picture? I want a girl from the Island of Doctor Moreau.

Emma the Emo
Guest

“As a result we have higher accuity of vision, hearing and touch.”
Really?.. I always thought women were more touch-sensitive. How come I tickle so easily, but my boyfriend doesn’t? *solipsism on*

Matthew King (King A)
Guest

Rollo wrote: The greatest inconsistency that most people discussing Social Darwinism fall into is the “survival of the fittest” falacy [sic]. Nowhere in any of Darwin’s writtings [sic] will you ever see this terminology refered [sic] to in the context of natural selection. It’s not survival of the fitest [sic], it is survival of the species best able to adapt to it’s changing conditions and environments. “Fittest” means most fit to adapt, most fit to the changed environment, most fit to survive. Not “fit” as in “healthy and fit” or “strongest.” Your “fallacy” doesn’t fit. A lot of critics of… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest

Matt, how / where is the picture not accurate?

lovelost
Guest
lovelost

“Our metabolism favors carbohydrates over protien and stored fat, why? Because our environmental reality thousands of years ago meant that a good sugar kick made for a better chance of evading a predator.”

This is so true, i was watching “the weight of the nation” doc on youtube. it talks about this same concept in detail.

here is the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pEkCbqN4uo

YOHAMI
Guest

M3, about Vox’s civilization stuff. What does it mean exactly? The structure we live in? the set of morals? politics? the apparent order vs the apparent barbarism we imagine we would have wihout? what’s the difference with civilization here and, say, society? let’s go into wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilization “the term has been used to refer to the material and instrumental side of human cultures that are complex in terms of technology, science, and division of labor. Such civilizations are generally hierarchical and urbanized.” Ah. Im not very happy with the uses of technology, science, division of labor and hierarchy in this… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy

@Matthew King (King A) Your “fallacy” doesn’t fit. Except that it is absolutely true that Darwin never used the phrase “Survival of the fittest”. That came much later in interpretations of his work. The problem is you exaggerate its sovereignty over female behavior. And that does amount to an unintended endorsement, because you make it easier to excuse women for their behavior by assuming “hypergamy doesn’t care” about a woman’s attempts at discipline. In my experience I’ve not met many women who practice much self discipline in this area. The ones I have met are usually very happily married and… Read more »

Anna
Guest
Anna

@King A
Eh, wanting a girl from a (kinda cheesy) scifi classic probably isn’t that weird…I mean, it does nothing for me but I knew some guys in college who were “furries”. Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

@Emma
Maybe he is and just really good at hiding it, or he has a different sensitive spot than normal. I mean, I’m like you…but my lover is only ticklish on his spine and neck. Usually means I don’t win those “fights”. *sigh* 🙂

Anna
Guest
Anna

@Jeremy

Just as an afterthought from reading that you’re in L.A.: Are the women that you have/think you will get burned from the ones you meet in bars? Because I firmly believe that the type of people you commonly find in bars/clubs are almost a different species from the ones you could meet in a coffeehouse or hobby-based group. Not saying ALL of them will be “better”…but most likely a different breed.

Martel
Guest

@ YOHAMI: “‘In such a society the vast number of men will be without access to women or children.’. / So what?” So what is that such societies, if they have anything even closely resembling any vestige of liberty, are inherently volatile. Young males with no access to women have very little to loose and are therefore extremely violent. The only defense against millions of young unmarried males with nothing left to live for other than their next rape or theft can only be constrained by an extreme police state or militarism, somewhat like the Ottoman Empire around the time… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy

@Anna LA is the LAnd of fLAkes. There is no “scene” in this city where these behaviors don’t show up in some fashion unless you’re trying to game in a retirement community (and why not? some of these women have over-financed their retirement…). I got tired of the club scene almost the moment I set foot in those feminine playgrounds over 15 years ago. I haven’t been back. I do hang out with close friends at known local dive bars, but that’s not the same, and generally I have never seriously tried game there. I have been heavily into the… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest

Martel, thanks for the long response. I dont know enough about history to know what Im talking about though. So this: if we’re not there yet, how much worse do you think it can get? women are free and have multiple benefits. And they are having sex like crazy. Every weekend or so, drunk, at the bars, and then they date around like shoplifters. The only men that “dont have access to women” are the ones that are trying to buy out affection by being nice. Eventually all of them are going to collapse, internally, and face reality and become… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest

On my mind historically marriage worked like this: the man and a wife. The man has one or several mistresses, as many as he can pay for. And fucks prostitutes. The wife has two or more beta orbiters and might fuck the plumber. Wife and husband have sex once a year. The third son is not his.

So the marriage is a social facade and an economical arrangement, not a factual thing.

Matthew King (King A)
Guest

YOHAMI wrote: Matt, how / where is the picture not accurate? It isn’t accurate to describe civilized women as “feral,” which means not responsible for their choices or actions. It’s a broad observation that drives home a recently overlooked truth about female nature, yes, but it is hardly the last word on what women are or are not capable of. We all have instincts and we all restrain them to function peaceably among other men. The exaggeration of hypergamy as a primal force unintentionally legitimates it, the equivalent of capitulating and saying, We Cannot Stop It, We Can Only Hope… Read more »

Tilikum
Guest

>>>>>“if they know their alpha is dating other women, it’s just a matter of time before they leave him”

The story of my life.<<<

Yep. You gotta play a different game entirely if you want something lasting.

Martel
Guest

@ YOHAMI: “So this: if we’re not there yet, how much worse do you think it can get?” Way worse. (I go into more detail here: http://alphaisassumed.wordpress.com/2013/01/16/the-blood-red-pill/ We never hear about them in China, but there are riots all the time in large part due to the increasing gender imbalance because of their one-child policy. China will soon have millions and millions of unmarraigeable males. The Chinese government will either have to limit freedom even more (and it’s not exactly a libertarian paradise as it is). Another “use” for excess males is military adventurism (also a great way to steal… Read more »

Matthew King (King A)
Guest

Rollo commented in reply to Kate: Kate, you’re conflating desire with behavior. You can control the manifestations of your desire (behavior), but you either have a genuine desire or you don’t. Whether or not you engage in a behavior doesn’t negate the desire to engage in it. The Buddha, Christian asceticism, and the first precept of The Tao of Steve say otherwise. To become perfectly desireless is to attain nirvana. To avoid adultery and extinguish the very thought of adultery is to be “be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” These self-destructive urges are properly categorized as external to… Read more »

M3
Guest

@Yohami 1. LOL. My friend used to play Populace. Similar game. Always brought wrath of god earthquakes and floods upon his people. Too funny. 2. “about Vox’s civilization stuff. What does it mean exactly?” I hope im not putting words in his mouth, this is my take on the man. Vox does not ascribe to Nihilism or ‘every man for themself’. He believes in Alpha tempered with restraint to screw around and women to break through solipsism and understand their hypergamy and nature, to temper it, use it wisely and not have it lead them astray chasing greener pastures that… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest

Matt, “The exaggeration of hypergamy as a primal force unintentionally legitimates it” You’re saying hypergamy is not primal? if it’s not primal what is it? socially constructed? Also, are you saying hypergamy is not legit? say. Women being attracted per-se to high status, powerful men… that is not legit? Should hypergamy by seen as non legit, or should it be accepted as legit and controlled? which brings this to my other point. If hypergamy is the female equivalent to the male being attracted like a madman to the feminine physique, then the male being attracted to the form, should not… Read more »

Matthew King (King A)
Guest

Anna wrote:

Eh, wanting a girl from a (kinda cheesy) scifi classic probably isn’t that weird…I mean, it does nothing for me but I knew some guys in college who were “furries”. Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

I’m imagining the tail wagging tightly like an orgasmic puppy. And who isn’t turned on by an orgasmic puppy?

M3
Guest

@ Martel

China is already lifting restrictions on visa requirements to allow other Asiatic women from other countries to come in for the express purpose of marrying the ‘men left behind’ with so many hypergamous women leaving the poor and unattractive village farmers for rich men in the cities or even leaving to marry in other countries.

http://www.travel-impact-newswire.com/2012/06/chinas-gender-ratio-imbalance-set-big-problem-leftover-men/#axzz2K5YUgT74

M3
Guest

“So is my cock.”

Here endeth the debate.

YOHAMI
Guest

Martel, digging your blog.

China has a gender birthrate imbalance, which is different than simply women gone wild. Even with assortative mating and traditional monogamy there’s just not enough material.

I dont think we can really make the equivalent to occident where we have more women than men, and women are putting out like alcoholics with poor impulse control.

We might face a lack of good marriages and tons of indecency and the demise and near extintion of the nice guy in the near future. But lack of sex?

Matthew King (King A)
Guest

YOHAMI wrote: You’re saying hypergamy is not primal? if it’s not primal what is it? socially constructed? Also, are you saying hypergamy is not legit? say. Women being attracted per-se to high status, powerful men… that is not legit? Too many extrapolations of what I said leading you down blind alleys. I didn’t say hypergamy wasn’t primal. I said we were exaggerating the power of primal urges over our behavior. I’m not sure what you mean by “legit.” A freely indulged hypergamy is not practicable for very long and eventually defeats itself. If women have an urge to fuck the… Read more »

Matthew King (King A)
Guest

YOHAMI revealed:

So is my cock.

That’s the most solipsistically homo thing I’ve ever heard. I’m talking about the glory of tits and ass and your mind wanders to the aesthetics of … cock?

Martel
Guest

@ M3: Didn’t know that about China. Thanks. @ YOHAMI: Thanks for the plug. I did your blog, too. Anyhow, in China it’s because the women don’t exist, and here it’s because the betas are invisible, but the result in both cases is no woman for the beta. Our problem is more solvable in that betas can learn to be Alphas, whereas in China women who don’t exist can’t be have sex with anybody. Also, we’ve got at least a miniscule chance of counter-balancing the Feminine Imperative if we wake up in time. They can only kill off their men… Read more »

Martel
Guest

@ “King” Matt:

Every man has the inherent God-given right to admire his own cock, and I don’t care if Aristotle agrees or not.

Anna
Guest
Anna

@King A Orgasmic puppies? Well, THAT is certainly an interesting image right there, lol. As for what’s cuter…Emma Watson. @Yohami Listen, I’m all for singing the praises of some nice T&A, but cocks are definitely appealing in their own right. Cut, uncut, long, short, thick, skinny…they are all a wonderful sight to behold (even if there’s only ONE I love!). 🙂 @Jeremy Man, that situation sucks. I’m sorry. Never realized it was that bad in an entire city. 🙁 But don’t worry about the “overly religious” stuff, you probably won’t offend me unless you try to say I need to… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest

(blockquotes fixed) Matt, I said we were exaggerating the power of primal urges over our behavior. No you didnt say that. But it makes more sense. I’m not sure what you mean by “legit. You said that the exaggeration of the primal aspect of hypergamy legitimates it. Here: “The exaggeration of hypergamy as a primal force unintentionally legitimates it” Legitimates = to make something legit, right? thats why I ask if / why you consider it not to be legit on the first place. Anyway. I think we agree that having desires, even primal ones doesnt free you or responsibility… Read more »

Mark Minter
Guest

Rollo, I have a question. So I encountered some articles in Psychology Today. “Why You Shouldn’t Believe in Soul Mates” http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-attraction-doctor/201207/why-you-shouldnt-believe-in-soul-mates “Why Nice Guys and Gals Finish Last in Love” http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-attraction-doctor/201211/why-nice-guys-and-gals-finish-last-in-love?page=2 “The Real Reason Couples Decide They’re Incompatible” http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/happiness-in-world/201302/the-real-reason-couples-decide-theyre-incompatible And there are more. The these articles take concepts that I first heard of here on Rational Male, and I mean first by a long shot, , ever, in my life, after a ton of reading about anything and everything. When I think of Freud’s exasperated question “What do women want?”, now I think “Jeez, where the fuck was this guy?… Read more »

Twan
Guest
Twan

in regard to the bullet point “criminals”
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/05/justice/new-york-guard-inmates/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

3rd Millenium Men
Guest

That picture freaked me out.

“Human beings can’t handle too much reality, so the recourse is to attempt to stuff the Genie back into the bottle.”

Gah so true. Have been trying to put red pill truths onto a guy I know, and bit by tiny bit he’s taking them on. But it’s going against EVERYTHING he’s been told his whole life so it’s difficult. But he does admit that when he thinks back on his life experience against everything I’ve told him, it holds true. Still, it’s a massive slog.

YaReally
Guest
YaReally

“A lot of frustration most men and women endure in our modern socio-sexual education is the result of a psychological attempt to reconcile the vestigial behaviors and predilections of our feral past with the need for adaptation in our present environment.” Well said, I agree. My mental state is very relaxed and happy-go-lucky because I live in enough of an alignment with my Freudian “id” that I don’t have any real internal battles going on. I can live this way because I don’t subscribe to the same value system or goals that modern society tries to socially condition us to… Read more »

Kate
Guest
Kate

“Kate, you’re conflating desire with behavior. You can control the manifestations of your desire (behavior), but you either have a genuine desire or you don’t.

Whether or not you engage in a behavior doesn’t negate the desire to engage in it.”

Rollo, how did I not see this comment? Anyway, I guess you’re right. And that is actually very helpful to have spelled out because sometimes I just can’t understand why I’m rejected and I guess its just because “genuine desire” isn’t there. Its hard to believe this is possible! But, it is.

Anna
Guest
Anna

@YaReally

I couldn’t agree more. People need to go out, live, and experience LIFE. This whole guilting men and women into getting married at age 20-25 is bogus…how are you supposed to be able to make any type of long term decision when you’ve nothing to compare it to? I firmly believe that we need to travel, get a good job, and learn to depend on ourselves BEFORE we try to depend on someone else for the rest of our lives.