Past Indiscretions

past_indiscretions

Now that the 21 Convention, 2018, is in the history books it’s time to get back to actually exploring intersexual dynamics rather that talking about exploring them. My speech this year was about the state of the Manosphere and what we can expect from an ever expanding, ever more power-ravenous, Gynocracy in the MeToo era. It’s never been a more dangerous time to be a man who reveals the truths about intersexual dynamics than now. Even if you do so from the most objective perspective you run the risk of censure at best, personal destruction at worst.

One thing I am very thankful of the convention for is the depth and breadth of not just the speakers, but the attendees. Last year I came back with so many new concepts to explore it finished out my year of blog essays. This year the attendance was twice as big and I’ve got a wealth of new material to dig into courtesy of the stories and personal situations men would relate to me. I’ll be doing a more complete breakdown of the convention around the time the video of my talk drops on 21 University. Anthony Johnson has fast tracked this video as well as the Red Man Group Live discussions (there were 3) we did on the bonus 5th day for anyone who stuck around for it.

One of the stories I had a guy hit me with was his making me aware of the black market that’s opened up in the sale of positive pregnancy tests online. There are forums (not even on the dark web) dedicated to convincing “commitment-phobic” men that their girlfriends are pregnant in order to lock them down either in marriage or an LTR. That blackmarket (if you can call it that) also led me to investigating the phenomenon of women covering for their girlfriends’ infidelity or pretending to be an alibi in order to allay any suspicions their Beta boyfriends might have about it. This then led me to another truth about the nature of women:

The Sisterhood will always show solidarity for, provide cover for, or aid and abet a woman trying to optimize Hypergamy,…unless that woman is in direct intrasexual competition with her for the same optimization.

Right now I’m sure there are guys thinking, “Rollo, we know that women can get really brutal when it comes to competing with each other.” And yes that is true; “slut shaming” is almost entirely reserved for women’s intrasexual combat, and there are many other ways women disqualify other women from the sexual marketplace if they feel threatened by that woman’s direct competition. But women evolved to be collectivist and cooperative in our hunter/gatherer past, and this has given rise to a globalized Sisterhood wherein women buy into the narrative of their own victimhood and most understand their gynocentric position of power simultaneously. If there is a prime directive to the social order it’s that all women everywhere are entitled to the best available opportunities to optimize Hypergamy.

Women will almost universally run cover for their sisters’ infidelity, and especially so if they are anonymous and there is little risk attached to their involvement. The rationalization is always the same too; it’s men’s responsibility to “Man Up” and marry a sister and thus subterfuge is justified, or, a woman deserves a shot at hot short term sexual opportunities if that woman is paired with a Beta partner. Either scenario is consolidation of Hypergamy.

Men are never afforded the same luxury of being able to vet women or to abandon one for his own reasons. I constantly get questions from guys asking how to vet a woman for marriage, but the fact that I would be audacious enough to offer advice on this is enough to set most women off. How dare I think that any woman might not be suitable for a long term commitment? To the Sisterhood, that vetting is only ever valid when it comes from another woman, why? Because to women only women should ever have control over Hypergamy and sexual selection. And in a feminine-primary social order a man telling another man that he should pass on a woman for commitment is conflated with misogyny.

Case in point, this story is of a guy who discovers his girlfriend used to be a Sugar Baby and had sex with older men for money in her sexual past. He has plans to break it off with her, but naturally every woman and every Blue Pill simp in the thread thinks he throwing the baby out with the bathwater. This situation isn’t all that uncommon. In fact, with the rise of the internet and a permanent social media digital footprint, combined with Open Hypergamy, it’s become necessary for women to legitimize every woman’s sexual past for fear that their own might disqualify her for a man’s commitment.

So the Sisterhood will cover for infidelity, aid in fraud and deception, keep Beta men ignorant of a woman’s duplicity and support single motherhood if it means that woman can lock down an optimal ideal of Hypergamy or parental investment from a man.

In an age when a woman’s sexual past is part of her digital footprint, a new social convention is needed to absolve her from any preconditions a man may have in vetting her out of his long term investment in her. Solution: Shame men for “judging” her by that sexual history. Men must be shamed as “insecure in their masculinity” if they might ever use a woman’s Party Years against her in a court of marriage. Likewise, women will fall back on the old tropes of traditionalist sexual repression to amp up the victimhood should a man ‘have a problem’ with women’s maturing sexual natures.

A similar situation occurred with the guy in Saving the Best who discovered that his sexually unadventurous wife had some video tapes of herself in amateur porn gangbangs when she “used to be so wild back in college.” His response was Great, I married a slut who fucks me like a prude. This of course sent the Sisterhood apoplectic and he was the one who had the “problem” for committing to and marrying a woman with that kind of past. That he had no knowledge of the videos prior to it made no difference; how dare he judge a woman’s past indiscretions? And then it became and indictment of womankind rather than an indictment of a woman. Men are not allowed to have concerns about a woman’s sexual past when it comes to matters of commitment because it implies a measure of control over Hypergamy.

Long term provisioning is a very serious problem for women’s subconscious Hypergamy. As it stands today a woman’s Epiphany Phase represents the culmination of Hypergamy. It’s vitally important that a woman never be judged for her sexual past if she’s to ever ‘stick the landing’ so to speak. If she follows the Sandbergian plan of Hypergamy she can’t afford to have men judge her for prioritizing Alpha Fucks, short term breeding, in her peak sexual market value years if she’s going to lock down a (hopefully still ignorant) Beta in Waiting. She must stick the landing and cash out of the sexual marketplace just at the right moment, between the ages of 29-31.

During her Epiphany Phase a woman needs to be absolved the ‘indiscretions’ of her Party Years. I’m putting indiscretions in scare quotes because those behaviors are really part of a long term breeding and life strategy. They are anything but indiscretions, they are part of the design.

However, most men have a natural revulsion to women who’ve been with a lot of men. It’s takes a great deal of social conditioning – a lifetime of Blue Pill conditioning – to prepare a man to believe it’s his duty as a man to look past what his instinct is trying to warn him about parentally investing in a woman for whom his paternity might be in doubt. I wrote about this in the War on Paternity, but there is a part of men’s evolved mental firmware that is instinctually suspicious of the certainty of paternity. Our hindbrains want to warn us of bad prospects for a certain paternity with a woman.

partner_count

You’ll notice here that a higher partner count for men is less deleterious than it is for women. I’ll address this fact in a followup to this essay, but for now let’s focus on the effects a higher N-count has for women. Our instinct, it seems, is correct when it warns us that a woman isn’t suitable for a man’s parental investment.

Women with a higher number of sexual partners have more difficulty developing solid attachments, a higher incidence of infidelity and higher rates of divorce. Primarily I see this as being due to the Alpha Widow potential (more lovers, more chance one makes a lasting Alpha impression) and the subconscious comparisons to a past lover. This is a workable theory as to why men adapted for a revulsion (or at least a hesitation) of high N-count women.

This instinctual reservation is a survival adaptation based in men’s need for certainty in paternity. Investment costs and a loss of reproductive opportunity is so high for men in a state of paired monogamy that certainty of paternity became an evolved mental subroutine for men. Men’s biological imperative is to spread seed. This is why we can become aroused on a moment’s stimulation, why we can mentally compartmentalize sex from intimacy, and why we generally err on the side of over-estimating sexual interest in women.

Long term monogamous investment in rearing a child costs a man more than just him following his biological imperative. As such, a certainty of paternity became a key element in that tradeoff for parental investment in a woman. So when women shame a man for even thinking that her sexual past might be indicative of future returns it is literally a woman’s attempt at getting a man to ignore 100,000 years of an evolution that led his ancestors to have him. You don’t just wish away 100,000 years of successful breeding adaptations because it’s impolite for a man to question a woman’s past or the convenience with which she disregards it at a time when her own sexual strategy might benefit most.

This tradeoff exists in direct oppositional conflict with women’s Hypergamy, and in the context of her very limited sexual market value (fertility) peak. Women between 29 and 31 are on the downside of their sexual marketability with respect to locking down a high value man for long term parental investment. While some women can maintain their sexual value longer than others, the decay is undeniably on the downturn with respect to her intrasexual competition and her reproductive viability. She’s gone through her best fertility years focusing most on the visceral side of the Hypergamous equation (short term Alpha seed) and / or investing herself in low ROI monogamy.

In the Epiphany Phase she (and the Sisterhood) knows she can’t afford suitable Beta provisioning men to have revelations about her sexual past affect her viability for long term security.

Hypergamy is in conflict with the male need for certainty of paternity.

As such, the Sisterhood (and its male ‘allies’) unites against any reservations, or shames men for being ‘judgmental’ of her sexual past. This is how Hypergamy fights with men’s paternity imperative. Ultimately it’s a battle of his resources (sunk cost investment) versus her capacity to optimize Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks. For more information on this conflict see The Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies.

Thus, social conventions must be created to prioritize Hypergamy above Paternity. So, being a Step-Dad makes a man a “hero”. Paternity is legally defined by the mother / wife, and gynocentric legal and medical doctrines restrict doctors from revealing who the real father of a child is to the “dad”. There was a time when being an unwed mother was something society shunned. It was a time when both men and women agreed on a man’s priority of his own paternity. If a young woman became pregnant out of marriage, or if a woman slept with a soldier of an invading army, she was shunned and publicly excoriated. That’s the degree of importance the social order of the time placed on paternity. Now, the Village shames men for ever expecting a child would be his own or that he’d be justified in his concern about a woman’s past.

Now the Village conflates men’s instinctual desire to know paternity (to even put a value on it) with a social construct. It’s not that he’s naturally concerned about paternity, it’s that he learned to be concerned as part of his toxic masculinity social educations.

Finally, I should also add that part of this social convention meant to repress the paternity imperative is about absolving women of the liabilities of a promiscuous past. As I mentioned, men’s reservations inhibit women’s Hypergamous strategies. So men are shamed by women for those reservations, but they are also shamed by Beta male sympathizers (symps). This piling on with the women only aids in the deconstruction of their ow sexual imperatives, but male ‘allies’ used this shame as an extension of their Beta Game in the hopes of identifying themselves better with the feminine (as they were conditioned to). They see the identifying with women’s imperatives as a means to their own reproduction.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

366 comments on “Past Indiscretions

  1. Epic post and excellent refresher of previous material. Keep up the great thinking and writing, Rollo. Looking forward to book #4.

  2. Mate, let me reiterate. I do not give a fuck

    Then why bring it up in the first place? Too much time on your hands?

  3. They always send out the bots when it’s time to vote.

    This is what is meant by stirring the pot.

    ” Governing a country is like boiling a fish”

    This I take as the more you stir either one the more it falls apart.

  4. My little sister is 5′ 1″,she is my youngest sister. My oldest sister is 5″ 3″ she is smaller than me but three years older. My little sister is only 1 year older. Neither of them know who nietzche is.

    Bot’s abuse everybody as if they are owned by the po po to weed out violence.

  5. I don’t feel like looking it up to see what ” research ” has to say on the subject, but from what I’ve observed over the years, If a woman is fit before and after childbirth ( doesn’t become a landwhale ), they usually retain their looks for a pretty good while ( …not talking about single moms either ). 30-35 might be a wall for some, but not all.

    Actually, as long as a woman keeps having kids, her body tends to retain its youth…something about the pregnancy hormones puts off aging…My daughter’s sister-in-law is older than my daughter, but still looks quite young and she’s mostly white and looks white…she has had nine kids…still has a nice figure and a pretty face and is over 40…just had another kid…she’s a very sweet girl….

  6. “Then why bring it up in the first place?”

    I shared the link to support the fact, that no, women’s “expiration date” is not @35, which I see Rollo tweeted eariler today (https://twitter.com/RationalMale/status/1055149660346572800) IF they take care of their themselves. Diet, genetics, little to no drugs and alcohol use and all that ….while their out getting their AF fix on.

    The true wall for all women is when they hit their “biological menopause” wall, which as you noted, can begin in women as early as 50. That’s when they’re completely screwed if they suddenly change their mind and want to have kids now, or their chances of getting hitched to a handsome chad are now reduced to nil. At 35, there are still plenty of guys that would happliy tap that HB7.5 ass and there’s still lot of blue pill alphas that want to marry that sexy “cougar”.

    I don’t care because none of this “wall” shit will have any impacts in MY life. Just fun to discuss….like how some guys here love discussing politics endlessly…yet none of them will have any impact on the big picture. What’s going to happen, is going to happen, regardless of how one feels about it:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R72atCX4leY

    This is just a ride.

  7. j and Jafyk

    You don’t have to take at face value what are usually just female rationalisation hamsters. Is it that she didn’t want to have kids or she couldn’t find alpha seed and said …fuck it…it’s either alpha or none? lol

    Personal lifestyle choices ok but still doesn’t mean it’s without consequences for intersexual dynamics especially if it’s a particular social trend. If more women want to die childless then an equal number of men will die childless too as a result. None of us would be here to write on this blog if our parents had the same mindset as Karen.

    j when you reach my age and maybe think about having a kid you will be the one to man up and marry the sluts with astronomical n-count.

  8. Tell me if I’m wrong,a blue pill woman operates under the new set of books iresponsibly taking every advantage for instant gratification.
    While a red pill woman operates more under the old set of books,responsibly taking care of business and keeping her hypergamy in check.

    This is not all inclusive of course but quite the opposite of red and blue pill males.

  9. ” . . . a red pill woman operates more under the old set of books,responsibly taking care of business and keeping her hypergamy in check . . .”

    . . . in a Blue Pill Trad-Con’s dreams.

  10. It’s quite simple, gentlemen. Don’t get married and don’t breed. It’s a bad deal for men and in this day and age, why would anyone give up their freedom and finances for a nagging wife and ungrateful kids? Best to keep what’s yours and hit SE Asia as often as you can afford, for some good time, NSA R & R. Remember gents, the golden rule of the 3 f’s: if it flies, floats or fucks, rent it…

  11. Riding to the MotoGP with the boys tomorrow which i’m really looking forward to. Heaps of guys been riding down my road over the past week on the same mission. That is a simple true rebellion in this pussified day & age. My black Kwaka super-sports bike gives me a better ride than any woman, and without any of the backchat and nonsense. Valentino Rossi is still racing, and he’s nearly 40! Keep it real, gentlemen. Get a bike, get out into the country with a few mates, and ride those machines hard…

    Check out Rossi’s Ranch vid. What a man. What a life!

  12. Realistic options for sex at 51 are either:

    Much younger women
    Other men’s wives or girlfriends

    I’m pushing 60 (but can pass for 42) and much younger women are now my choice, hoes or not.
    Nothing beats a 19yo sb other than a 19yo doing it for free. I have yet to find that unicorn…

  13. @AR “You’re wrong.” Nah your lazy.A blue pill male can be unplugged by training and experience. A red pill man can train his woman to red pill ways with consistent effort.
    It is easier to quit and be a victim,if you can get yor gonads to cooperate.

    @kfg “. . . in a Blue Pill Trad-Con’s dreams.”

    And then you woke up,red pill women and men don’t just happen in a soft and easy Mama’s boy’s world.

  14. “It’s quite simple, gentlemen. Don’t get married and don’t breed. It’s a bad deal for men and in this day and age, why would anyone give up their freedom and finances for a nagging wife and ungrateful kids?”

    No presumptions made there. Fox, it’s that type of tunnel vision that put you where you are now. You have freedom from marriage, kids, nagging, ungratefulness.

    Yet you’re here lamenting your lot one week then validating your lot by impugning others’.

    ProTip: “don’t breed” is code for “I’m butthurt about my limitations and collapsing prospects.”

    And this comment is not about marriage, kids, or whatever other rightious flip you might think of.

  15. “I’d consider it but it wouldn’t be within the traditional western monogamous relationship structure..”

    If I go in for round two it will be on my terms all the way. She would need to be 36 years younger than me,which means dealing with all her changes again. That is the trade off for a cook and gate operator- mother of my children. Still going on the first round.

  16. Nagging wife?

    Ungrateful kids?

    Wtf?

    Again, some men aren’t cut out to be fathers, but millions will give it a shot anyway and then he shocked and angered that it magically all went to shit.

    I.don’t think it’s a good look for a man to suddenly realize when he’s in his 30’s that he wants to have kids. Some will.shine, many won’t and it’s that lack of poor planning and direction that spawns these ungrateful offspring.

    Same with a nagging wife. You chose her, you hopefully better her, whose fault is this disaster?

    Own it.

    I once made a shitty investment and lost my shirt ( … Well not the whole shirt, but 2 arms for certain). That doesn’t mean.financials and investment is a bad option for men. It meant I had to do things the hard way and learn the lesson of low knowledge and no real plan.

    Men need to realize that they might just want some different things at 35 than they do at 19. A thought to realize and the tuck it away for later, while honing the skill and understanding to one day be successful. Ya can’t wake up and suddenly believe you want to be CEO or pitch for a top major league baseball team.

    Lack of skill kills.

  17. Red Pill women are essentially broken as women. They are the women who actually make good CEOs, but lousy wives. Because they are essentially husbands.

    It is often said in the manosphere that women are naturally Red Pill, but this is not correct. Women run three sets of books. One for themselves (partial Red Pill, hence the impression that they are naturally Red Pill), one for others (Blue Pill) and one that they go by (the rest of the Red Pill) but are unaware of (and so they are not actually Red Pill). No matter how unpleasant it may be for men at times, women’s solipsism is a feature, not a bug. It is essential to their sexual strategy and thus their femininity.

    How they play out that strategy is a complex interaction between the three sets of books and the environment they find themselves in.

    In the current environment a single mom on welfare is maximizing her natural sexual strategy, and Maximizing your Natural Sexual Strategy is as good a thumbnail definition of Red Pill as any and better than most.

    Men must fully realize the nature of The Game (be Red Pill) to maximize their natural sexual strategy, but women must not. Their stealth game is so deep they even have to hide from themselves.

  18. I’ve taken a UMC girl,from disney land regular with a pool in the yard and orbiters out the wazoo, to deep conversion,

    She will hold the elks ears while I cut off the head LOL she has to look away from the wobble. she makes pepper steak cuz I like it, with home made chutney. She will can everything I bring home and keep the wood stove loaded all winter.

    I don’t want to train another but I know how I get when alone.

  19. “Red Pill women are essentially broken as women. They are the women who actually make good CEOs, but lousy wives. Because they are essentially husbands.”

    This sounds to me like “The Matrix plugged in hard” essentially blue pill. She is beyond hope of reconstruction,FUBARed. She has overcome her nature to fit in the Blue pill paradigm.

  20. “Yet you’re here lamenting your lot one week then validating your lot by impugning others’.”

    …to acquiesce in doing something unpleasant with a show of grace because one must do it in any case…

    Make the best of what you have. Don’t be negative about the feminine. The feminine is fun. If you can find a girl. (We don’t hate women, we love them when they are love-able and feminine…). Make women great feminine and love-able again….

    Most older guys I know that are single have difficulty in finding a girl.

    I recently met new guys 56 and 62 y.o. that are charming and positive and both had new girlfriends that have fallen on their dicks. The girls are attractive and the guys are happy. Did I mention they are charming? They are fun to talk to and are enthused.

    The girls are out there, you just have to find them.

    Children are a by-product of fucking a girl you are enthused with. They are not a pre-stated goal.

  21. “In the current environment a single mom on welfare is maximizing her natural sexual strategy, and Maximizing your Natural Sexual Strategy is as good a thumbnail definition of Red Pill as any and better than most.”

    It would appear that way at first glance,until I consider the current environment is Blue pill,thereby limiting her options from the start. Not a natural strategy rather the best option for the mistaken reproduction path.

  22. “This sounds to me like “The Matrix plugged in hard” essentially blue pill.”

    You are wrong.

    “She is beyond hope of reconstruction,FUBARed.”

    You are right.

    “She has overcome her nature to fit in the Blue pill paradigm.”

    You are backwards. That is what a traditional wife does. Her nature is AF/BB.

    Why are harem guards eunuchs? It isn’t because the men aren’t trusted. It’s because the women aren’t trusted.

    It is the true understanding of her sexual strategy (taking the Red Pill) that FUBARs her. You are thinking like a man. Women.Do.Not.Think.Like.Men. If a woman starts to actually think like a man (not think like a woman trying to think like a man, which is something very different), her sexual strategy goes all FUBAR.

    Red Pill is full knowledge of sexual strategy. Women’s sexual strategy is hiding sexual strategy. So revealing it to her makes it get all FUBAR. When she knows what she is doing and exactly why she is doing it, she can’t do it anymore.

    She doesn’t become a housewife, she becomes a man with tits.

    A “Red Pill” woman who “operates more under the old set of books,responsibly taking care of business and keeping her hypergamy in check,” is simply playing out her natural sexual strategy:

    Deception.

  23. ” . . . the current environment is Blue pill . . .”

    The Blue Pill set of books is written by women to maximize their sexual strategy.

  24. “In the current environment a single mom on welfare is maximizing her natural sexual strategy, and Maximizing your Natural Sexual Strategy is as good a thumbnail definition of Red Pill as any and better than most.

    Men must fully realize the nature of The Game (be Red Pill) to maximize their natural sexual strategy, but women must not. Their stealth game is so deep they even have to hide from themselves.”

    The same goes for girls married to red pill guys for 28 1/2 years.

    I’ve had new acquaintances, turning into friends that ask me if my wife knows about red pill. Do I discuss it with her? Not hardly is my reply. You don’t talk about fight club.

    Guess what peri-menopausal and post menopausal sexual strategy is? (It’s not that bad for men if they emotionally lubricate them. And stay attractive, not unattractive.)

  25. “Men must fully realize the nature of The Game (be Red Pill) to maximize their natural sexual strategy, but women must not. Their stealth game is so deep they even have to hide from themselves”

    Interesting post. So “red-pill” women are just defective women that couldn’t keep it hidden or are just too aware of themselves, because they are somewhat masculine?

    These RP women are also just herd creatures too following in the steps of male RP leadership- doesn’t that count for something?

  26. boulderhead
    Tell me if I’m wrong,a blue pill woman operates under the new set of books responsibly taking every advantage for instant gratification.
    While a red pill woman operates more under the old set of books,responsibly taking care of business and keeping her hypergamy in check.

    This is not all inclusive of course but quite the opposite of red and blue pill males.

    You’re wrong.

    boulderhead
    @AR “You’re wrong.” Nah your lazy.A blue pill male can be unplugged by training and experience. A red pill man can train his woman to red pill ways with consistent effort.
    It is easier to quit and be a victim,if you can get yor gonads to cooperate.

    This may come as a surprise, but “man” and “woman” are not the same thing. Your first comment made no sense. The second one doesn’t make much sense, either.

    When you get your brain working and can express whatever it is that you are trying to say in a coherent manner, get back to us.

    In the mean time, “red pill woman” and “unicorn” are synonyms. Make a note of that.

    PS: Your lame attempts so far today at AMOGing are funny. Keep it up!

  27. kfg

    Red Pill is full knowledge of sexual strategy. Women’s sexual strategy is hiding sexual strategy. So revealing it to her makes it get all FUBAR. When she knows what she is doing and exactly why she is doing it, she can’t do it anymore.

    Because “covert” means “covert”. Not “Overt but sorta covert”, not “covert but sorta overt”.

    Covert estrus is covert.
    When some girl describes a sexual escapade as “it just ha-ppened” she’s just:

    A. Lying to everyone, including herself
    B. Rewriting her history in the moment to absolve herself
    C. Carrying out her sexual strategy (likely AF-BB with some AF on the side).

    Different men will choose one of the above, but they aren’t the same thing.

    She doesn’t become a housewife, she becomes a man with tits.

    Which is apparently what some men want. Rather like wanting a tranny, but whatever…

  28. “She doesn’t become a housewife, she becomes a man with tits.”

    I hate when that happens.

    “Be ready for those blue pill friends to discuss it with their wives who will google it and be horrified and then tell your wife…”

    Lol.

    There is a benefit to being relatively insular in hanging out with friends.

    I use the Law #10 of the 48 laws of power to exclude overtly blue pill guys from my social circle. My buddies that aren’t Red Pilled are at least not resistant to it, and are neutrally aligned, not struggling with Blue Pill. My social circle is comprised of mostly highly functioning married guys, most of which are satisfied.

    My wife knows something is up this last five years, but I don’t discuss it with her. She know’s damn well she benefits by me being better, she just hates to admit it. She mostly lost her power of the pussy. But now enjoys getting fucked.

    I had quite the horrified reaction from my daughter who is getting married next spring (and knows about her agency/strategy with my future son-in-law) and my wife when EhIntellect and Roused came to visit in the middle of this past summer. Like Overt Dread. They freaked the fuck out that I actually talk to males about masculine male shit. Like talk about everything….

    I had a phone call from my future son in law last evening. I had to calm him down in regards to the fact that everything is OK in our side of the family in regards to The Anna Karenina Principle. I told him my daughter doesn’t know what she doesn’t know. He trusted/believed me. He’s a cool guy.

  29. palma

    it’s just them going with whatever is the flow at that point which doesn’t include you. If you get on the right foot they flake on someone else to be with you.

    Yup… Burden man… always there…

    Now play this dynamic through the full Mystery Method…

    a) she met a guy out who was fairly amusing, made her laugh a few times and he suggested a drink sometime.

    b) she met a guy out who came in like he owned the place, with a throng of people and girls with him, held court all night, entertained a group, got her qualifying herself to him and eventually he pulled her off to the side and amazed her with his life and conversation, was totally non needy etc, then blew out with his posse…

    which guy leaves more of an impression?

  30. “Interesting post. So “red-pill” women are just defective women that couldn’t keep it hidden or are just too aware of themselves, because they are somewhat masculine?”

    Close enough for horseshoes and hand grenades, although I would ditch the scare quotes. I’m using those for women like Cassie Jaye who are “Red Pill” as part of their deceptive strategy and not actually Red Pill.

  31. @ Rollo

    I had a comment not get through the WordPress filter just now, I figure.

    I had a neat comment about negativity yesterday that didn’t get through yesterday, but I figured it was poor cell reception at my farm. It had to do with red pill disgruntled negativity.

  32. “After all, their families, social group, peer group and women have given them a methodology, and that methodology was not in the best interest of the man. However, Hanlon’s razor dictates that one should not attribute to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence. Many beta men do not know any better and the women in a man’s family are frequently focused on creating a great husband for their future daughter in law, rather than creating a Chad.”
    Gold for black labels essay

  33. “Lately about 20% of my comments just vanish. It’s not a reception issue.”

    Got it.

    Oh, and I was also trying to respond and comment on SJB’s cite of Robert Greene’s The Laws of Human Nature Book yesterday.

    For the intellectually inclined or students of human nature, it starts out phenomenally insightful (introduction and first chapter was awesome) and is likely to be as great as the writer ever has written. Really good stuff.

  34. Rollo, many years ago I asked you for the differences between AWALT behavior and NAWALT behavior and was hoping for some specific examples. At the time you demurred to links in your previous writings. You have most certainly never identified the AWALTS in any previous piece like you did in this one!

    You really came through with some new Tomossi Laws of AWALT:

    1. The Sisterhood will always show solidarity for, provide cover for, or aid and abet a woman trying to optimize Hypergamy,…unless that woman is in direct intrasexual competition with her for the same optimization.

    2. All Women believe that only women should ever have control over Hypergamy and sexual selection.

    3. All Women frequently conflate women not having complete control over hypergamy with “misogyny.”

    4. The Sisterhood will cover for infidelity, aid in fraud and deception, keep Beta men ignorant of a woman’s duplicity and support single motherhood if it means that woman can lock down an optimal ideal of Hypergamy or parental investment from a man.

  35. @Sentient – I’m all in for PussyBlind. It’s interesting how my musical leanings are evolving. I seem to want to play more and more hard, distorted metalish sounds. I’m not quite “shredding” but it’s all become much harder. More masculine, less emo…I do have a really chill vibe actually, i’m tempted to put some rough cuts I loaded up to Soundcloud here of them but…

    More to come in next comment.

  36. Where to begin? Okay, I’m gonna try some bullets.

    @SJF is spot on. Girls are fun. Seems only a handful of men here have figured that out.

    @KFG – Is Karen a bot? I know she uses some quote/cite mining for her intentionally oblique references. If she’s real, she’s just here for the tingles. Many women like her today, sad for them mostly as the only way they can experience a rush is by shit testing nonstop and waiting for an actual man to laugh at her. Problem is if you’ve been doing this since your late teen years, and you are over 30, it’s a lifestyle. It’s an adaptive strategy that becomes a primary way of being – we call such women “cunts”. Fyi, best thing to do with a cunt like that is to fuck her like the piece of shit she knows herself to be. Choke, pin down, toss around – the more rough you get, the more they cum. I remember pressing this farther with an early 30s hard case who thought she was all that and a cup of tea. I made her fuck me bareback and then while doing so told her what a fucking slut she was to let me fuck her bareback on our first date, lol. She got so worked up and came so many times that by the end of the long, tortuous sexual encounter her pussy actually spasmed up and like vapor-locked on my cock for like 5 minutes. And like a good little slut, she was immediately on text after raving about it AND how she’d choked on my cock. I never spoke with her again…Funniest was driving her home after. She wanted to fuck while I was driving, she was insanely riled up. These experiences are incredibly instructive and do great damage to the Blue Pill mindset.

    @AllY’all – Try and get out of your own heads for a moment if you possibly can. We like to say that women have two sexual strategies, and are hypergamous. That’s accurate as far as it goes but all you beta Blue Pilled pussies seem to think that’s a plot aimed at fucking you over, ha ha. Wake the fuck up to reality. Try seeing it through a woman’s POV.

    Women are seeking best genetics and provision, but notice they aren’t nearly as aroused when dealing with a provider. Have any of you self-absorbed whiners ever considered what that’s like for a woman? She’s forced to have sex with men she’s not really attracted to as a strategy for achieving her reproduction imperative. This is back of the brain/lizard brain shit for them. Just like arousal is for us. Only it works very differently for women.

    Try to imagine that. Women are forced to mate with men that don’t arouse them that much. Hmmm. Is that fun? And while there have always been women who pursued their “alpha fucks” strategy, the social pressure on such women was very negative. Why do you think the very idea of a “slut” exists? To shame such women.

    But then everything changed. Women are saying, “We don’t want to be your brood sows anymore.”. They don’t get (for the most part) that disrupting the mating politics of Western civilization has reduced reproduction and has relegated us to decline and then irrelevance in a few more generations, sure. But in their minds, they now can exercise their best genetics mating strategy to their heart’s content. Again, of course there are negative consequences in a social order which values monogamy and paternal certainty etc. But that world is gone folks…

    I think you evangelical types have it the worst in some ways. Living in your antediluvian social bubbles has you convinced that you can somehow roll back the clock, giggling. Meanwhile, guys like me know that no girl fucks as well as hard core “good girl” christian, lol. Like ya gotta get this.

    A man who’s actually about maximizing his own sexual strategy and outcomes looks at this and doesn’t get upset or whine. He says, “Hmmm, how can I optimize for me?” And gosh, this new social order has created a crop of 18-28yo nyphomaniacs who love to fuck and love sex and are wide open to experiences with men who ACTUALLY TURN THEM ON. Better yet? Their male contemporaries are mostly so blue pilled that even the good looking ones and the ones with some natural social dominance (alpha = social dominance, for those of you who still don’t understand the term) often turn all that into a crass, stupid “No Fear dude” kind of bro-idiocy which is a caricature of a truly self-possessed, dominant man. Note, an actually intelligent alpha male in university today who isn’t ugly cleans the fuck up. I live right outside a college town and I see these guys sometimes. Girls literally following them around. For such men, the world is a sexual paradise cuz most guys are angry, like most of you saps here.

    Me? I went through my anger at it all. Sure, got it – check that box and move the fuck on. What became clear to me is that when I set aside all the blue pill social conditioning (arising out of chivalric codes and christendom and more recently the femcentric politics we have) I realized I was my own worst enemy. When I examined my desires, it was clear I wanted hot, young, nubile and fecund pussy. That is what is an insta-hard-on for me. That’s what can get me off 3 times in a session at 56, whereas even with a 31yo hardbody fucktoy I have to work to get off. All you guys using little blue pills to fuck your older wives should consider that there is nothing wrong with you…I’d never take a pill to cum. I make the older girls work harder, it fucks with their minds.

    Now I find that there is an ample supply of young, hot women raised on porn who are sexually super-charged. You guys think this is a problem, LMFAO. It’s nirvana for a high value, dominant male. I’m out to save western civilization, it’s going down the tubes no matter what as all civilizations do. Hell, we’re still running circles around the Muslims, try to imagine how they feel about their social order collapsing. There is no stopping it. Larger cycles of history are at work that pre-date the modern world, we are so blinded by our obsession with our own culture and the past 2000 years. A longer, wider view makes clear we are over. Trump is a death rattle…

    Most humans have lived in socio-political orders that are oppressive and fucked up. We in the West feel so entitled to our liberty and self-governance that we don’t realize how fragile this all is and how such conditions always extinguish themselves. Read Gibbons, The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire and get back to me…Decline can go on for hundreds of years but it’s still all headed down. Just like the West.

    Re: Fleezer – He’s right again, dammit. My latest conquest, the 20yo hb9? She’s sending me snaps of her masturbating with a banana in the shower. While i send her hookup hotshot super dominant porn scenes with petite nymphos her age who are like her. She goes insane. She takes one still of her fucking herself with the banana and captions it, “I’m stuck her fucking this banana instead of your cock.” Part of why this works for her is that I’m one of the few people on earth she can expose all this to and not be treated like a freak. Most young guys will be intimidated by her sexual appetites. I’m setting up round 2 – our first encounter was in a car so it was not the depraved, multi-hour romp we both want. I also get that’s what she wants. She does not want me to be her boyfriend. She does not want me to provide for her. She calls me “Daddy” and she wants to be treated like the submissive slut she knows herself to be. Bareback of course, just as Fleezer says. And she, like all the other young ones, want me to cum inside her. Begging for it. She asked me if I would ‘next time’ and I said yeah and she went crazy. She tells me “I’m your’s” – i of course don’t believe her. But it seems like there is more reality to it.

    Why? Cuz true alphas who don’t hate themselves are rare these days. Mostly you’ve got Blue Pilled idiots who ape what they believe sexual dominance to be. I remember one hottie from a couple of years ago. She was so gorgeous and petite, with a beautiful little snatch that I paid a lot of attention to. We kissed alot and had a great time. After, she described the kind of sex she was having with guys her age and it’s just as Fleezer claims. They don’t even kiss her or go down on her. They just fuck with a condom, cum and split. She went insane for me, like she had such a good time. And from my POV, I just did what I wanted. She was an hb8 at least. Maybe a 9. I had an incredibly good time and just did her the way I wanted to.

    I think Fleezer is really onto something about condom versus no condom sex. Women love to watch videos of men cumming. They love cumshots. And I finally got it – if they are honest, the literally crave cum. Condoms deny them of it, so, do the math yourself.

    Bottom line? If you are angry about all this, grow the fuck up. You are merely using the Red Pill as a buffer to justify your investments in your victimhood and failed man status. Be careful, this kind of anger is part of how the Elliot Rogers of the world are made.

    A pickle will never become a cucumber again. Our social order is not going to evolve in reverse. Women are not going to agree in the West to go back to a traditional social order. Sure, a new Dark Age will make them change their ways, just cuz of survival. But for now? Note how many simply choose not to reproduce given the choices they now have. If I was a woman, and smart and able to make my way through this society on my own, the thought of having to settle down with one of you blue pilled pussy beggars would look like a nightmare to me.

    I can’t be bothered to edit as I’ve run out of time and have to get busy making loot. Have a great day guys, and those of you angered by this post should look inward, not outward. I’m pointing you towards self-ownerhip and a life based on reality for you and women. That you don’t “like it” is irrelevant to a man who’s truly about being real and getting what he wants out of live.

  37. @ Palmasailor

    Re: unfinished business

    I’m not surprised you’d say such. You’ve been through a lot and realized your potential, and experience the actual in your son. There’s no such thing as too much of a good thing, your son is and example of that. Debating everything under the sun short of our desire for permanence is a lot easier than examining our conscience, realizing we could have done, can and should do more and better.

    I am with you and riffing here so bear with me. There’s nothing I can do about my failures short of changing course, however defined, building my life doing the right thing, in the now. The saddest thing a man can do is lose faith in himself, his value, as it is never zero. Faithlessness is the only sin (that which limits your consequence, this isn’t about religion) that can not be forgiven as when one don’t believe in ones self, there’s no one to redeem you. Validation comes solely from within, and only there we find the answers (cough,cough, j, cough, cough).

    I’ve never sweat the bed more than in the last couple years. I’m convinced it was my conscience nagging me to stop playing God, let the old command and control me die. It is much, much better now.

    I’m of the opinion that there’s no future per se, just successive moments, building on each other. All I can do is do the right thing in the moment and let the future take care of it self.

    Have a good weekend.

  38. When some girl describes a sexual escapade as “it just ha-ppened” she’s just:

    A. Lying to everyone, including herself
    B. Rewriting her history in the moment to absolve herself
    C. Carrying out her sexual strategy (likely AF-BB with some AF on the side).

    It seems that we are supposed to pick one of the above. I vote for:

    D. None of the above

    If a woman is unaware of her sexual strategy, then how can she be lying to anyone? Part of a woman’s strategy (covert, even from herself!) is to rewrite her history. Of course, she is carrying out her sexual strategy. If she really wants to avoid having sex, she has to avoid high SMV men altogether…stop going to bars…walk away when hot men are around (and her awareness of Preselection will let her know who those men are)…a woman will know if she is avoiding hot men of course–that is done consciously–but women are designed for mating, so she will be resisting her biological urges.

  39. Disgruntled negativity

    Yeah that’s my BP side coming out again. I’m in the process of moving off the farm and into the city. Doing this alone (well, with movers too). It’s tiring me out so I’ll have to re-coup later.

    That proximity thing is key and is my missing ingredient. Sentient’s comment about being the man in the center of attention within a group is spot on as usual. But that man is not me and I currently don’t see a path to him. I’m a typical cube-farm hitech worker and basically was a stay-at-home father/builder/renovator/hobbyist. Dare I say an Introvert? How does an introvert turn into a Mystery? Is being a Mystery the key to success – the only path? Like Silver Fox, I’m more of a lone wolf and we know that type will scare off most young’uns.

    This is the problem I’ve been thinking off – the Mystery-type personality as the key to success. My sb experiences were great in terms of getting those one-on-one opportunities of developing that part of my personality that’s been suppressed for all these years. I joke, neg, tease, push-off with some of these girls and regardless if they are just acting I feel internally those new neural pathways developing.

    But meeting these girls in Real Life – there’s the rub. So, negativity – yeah it happens. It isn’t my default operating status but it happens.

  40. @Ehintellect – Tip of the hat, what a beautiful observation. So glad for you. We all need to work through our “dark midnight of the soul” on our own, ultimately. If this is just “riffing” I say keep it up.

  41. disgruntled

    How does an introvert turn into a Mystery?

    How does one get to Carnegie Hall?

    Is being a Mystery the key to success – the only path?

    No. But if you want choice, frequency and consistency… ya know?

    You can also live a DPA life, following The Platinum Rule and then capitalize on those opportunities as they present themselves…

    choices… burden… evermore

  42. so PussyBlind has a bassist and a guitar player… Can we audition some vocals? Need a drummer and another guitar. Need a five member band

  43. @ Scrib: Thank you.

    “How does an introvert turn into a Mystery?”

    Introverts aren’t antisocial, rather they understand, examine the world primarily from within their heads.

    Ergo, introverts can perform as on stage superstars, look like extroverts.

    Introvert strength: They are comfortable examining the world logically, rationally in their heads.

    Introvert weakness: They retreat into their heads, circuitous and increasingly complex in thought, thought that might be as more erroneous and more dangerous as their sense-able external physical environment.

  44. A little introvert diddy:

    Why would I think such things
    Crazy thoughts have quick wings
    Gaining momentum fast
    One minute I am fine
    The next I’ve lost my mind
    To a fake fantasy

    And none of these
    Thoughts are real
    So why is it that I feel
    So cut up and so bad
    I need to take control
    Coz my mind is on a roll
    And it isn’t listening to me

    Save me ah ah save me ah ah
    Save me ah wooh
    [thinking and thinking]
    Save me ah ah save me ah ah
    Save me ah wooh
    [thinking and thinking]

  45. @Disgruntled Earthling

    “I’m a typical cube-farm hitech worker and basically was a stay-at-home father/builder/renovator/hobbyist. Dare I say an Introvert? How does an introvert turn into a Mystery? Is being a Mystery the key to success – the only path?”

    Good question. I’m glad you asked. I have reference experiences in this idea.

    Mystery may well have been and is an Introvert. The way he got where he was a times was through the process of developing Mastery desire, practice, learning and collaboration with others (mentors or equals).

    The process of Mastery was described in Robert Greene’s Mastery and in Daniel Coyle’s The Talent Code.

    You keep working toward the goal. You keep after it to get to unconscious competence over the threshold of conscious competence.

    It helps to Know Thyself. To drop ego investments and identify blind spots and buffers. It helps to collaborate with others.

    Introversion and Extroversion are not set permanently. They are personality preferences that one uses to operate. They are used as functions in your operating system. They can be changed by you, by preference. YaReally spoke of this.

    I recently came across a more precise explanation of Introversion vs. Extroversion in the book Personality Hacker by Joel Witt and Antonia Dodge:

    Most resources say this dichotomy (introversion/extroversion) is about energy management, and they’re not wrong. But descriptions of how energy is managed can be oversimplified and misleading. Here’s an example of oversimplication we often read: “Introverts gain their energy by being alone, Extraverts by engaging with people.” This doesn’t seem to align with the chatty Introvert who loves to be around people, or an Extravert who can’t seem to leave a party fast enough.

    The actual difference between introversion and extraversion is this: For Introverts, the inner world (the world inside of themselves) is the “real world”, the world that really matters. For Extraverts, the external world (the world outside themselves) is the real world. It is this inner and outer reality from which a host of behaviors emerge.

    This is why Introverts will pause slightly before they speak, as if they’re making sure their words first resonate internally before they put them out into the world. Extroverts are the opposite–they’ll often speak while they are thinking, because hearing it outside of themselves helps them determine the value or the truth of their own statement. </blockquote

    That being said, I've largely shifted my own talent and preferences (INTJ) for more extraversion. Via the the masculine process of "working on it" to achieve goals. I'm a chatty introvert now, less reticent. I cultivated this by recognizing that (In a Know Thyself process) that my inferior function was that of Extraverted Sensing. Taking the outside world (especially in a social setting) as it presents itself as True and going with the flow. Not wishing how it ought to be, letting it be as it is. At most times I really enjoy socializing with men and women for the gains it can get me. And I get to choose among the possibilities that present themselves to me.

    The Red Pill and Game helps this process a lot.

    One of my close Red Pill buddies shifted markedly from Extraversion (as an ENTJ) to more introverted. He kept up the process of Awareness of what was going on within him and outside of him during a Red Pill Heroes Journey (staring into the Abyss and crossing it…). And what he came to realize the more he was Red Pill, the more the social world outside of him was bullshit.

    The Introvert thing is a preference that can be change. It's a feature,not a bug. And it's not a limiting factor at all. Keep working towards your goals.

  46. If you want to be more extraverted, you could always do like George Costanza in the Seinfeld episode The Opposite:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Opposite

    George remarks to Jerry in Monk’s Café that every decision that he has ever made has been wrong, and that his life is the exact opposite of what it should be. Jerry convinces him that “if every instinct you have is wrong, then the opposite would have to be right”. George experiments with doing the complete opposite of what he would do normally.

    EXTRAVERT
    • Outer world is the “real world”
    • Gets energy through engaging with environment
    • Less wary of new experiences
    • Uses open vowels when speaking, projects voice, “broadcasts”
    • Animated, energetic; “loud” gestures
    • Uses “we” language
    • Outwardly directed, more aware of environment
    • “After thinker”— cannot understand life until they’ve lived it

    INTROVERT
    • Inner world is the “real world”
    • Gets energy through alone time
    • Self-protective and more wary of new experiences
    • Closed mouth, softer tonality, holds back
    • More subdued gestures
    • Uses “I” language
    • Inwardly directed, less aware of environment
    • “Before thinker”— cannot live life until they’ve understood it

    (Source: Personality Hacker by Witt and Dodge.)

  47. @EhIntellect,

    Keep on riffing man… good stuff!

    “I’m of the opinion that there’s no future per se, just successive moments, building on each other. All I can do is do the right thing in the moment and let the future take care of it self. ”

    And here we have a core characteristic of the post-modern, collectivist, victims… complete incapability to live in the now and allow life to just unfold.

    This ‘losing of faith’ is what drives them in their insane quest to ‘fix people’. It’s their failed belief of having no individual agency and the ultimate distraction from having to deal with their own shit.

    Reminds me of a scene in “Serenity’ where Mal tells his crew…

    “They will try again. Maybe on another world, maybe on this very ground, swept clean. A year from now, ten, they’ll swing back to the belief that they can make people… better. And I do not hold to that. So no more running. I aim to misbehave.”

  48. @Disgruntled – Great and honest commentary. Don’t discount the SB thing, at bats with young hotties are hard to come by and like you said, it’s a good way to develop yourself. I’ve dabbled with pros here and there. Don’t make it a habit though cuz you have to fight your way out of provider selection.

    As for who you’ve been in the past in your life, I have simple question for you: How’s that working out for you? If you are content being who you’ve been, keep at it. But if not, consider that the idea that some people are introverts and others are not is kind of silly given what we know about behavior and neuroplasticity and psychology.

    SJF and I have argued here about Myers-Briggs, which has many fans. One of the core criticisms fo this fixed notion of personality types from the scientific psychological community is that in fact some of these behaviors are situational. I’ve observed this myself, people may be shy and holding back in some settings, while more engaging in others.

    What psychologists will tell you is that these behaviors are more like unconscious strategies you’ve developed to live your life. My guess is that if you continue to scratch underneath the surface of these things as you are doing that you will see how these mostly result from decisions you’ve made about the world and who you are. Fyi, I know many, many IT types stuck in cubes and I can tell that the average one (may not be you) is a frustrated wannabe renaissance man filled with anger and regret. Many spend their off hours (and some of their on hours) LARPing on the internet and gaming as there they believe they have real power in that domian and also can be themselves. I see this in many male gamers, it’s the one place they can let their masculinity and aggression loose.

    If you want tips about how to dive into these internal conversations, I used The Sedona Method for years to get underneath my emotions and reactions and behaviors. I think you are starting to do this already, but it’s also a very uncertain process. Like you think you are moving forward but you are never sure…

    And then one day you are a different man. As for being “Mystery”, please stop with that bullshit. Nobody is telling you to be Mystery. I don’t seduce the way he does. I do what I call “long game”. It’s much more delicious for me. I did some bar gaming for practice but I’m not interested in that scene. But his principles of seduction are applicable in every setting, for every man and every woman if you are actually wanting to get them seriously hooked on you. There may be other ways, cool. But I know Mystery works. I also like it because it’s “seduction”, not pickup. Sort of the diffference between fast food and a great meal at a fine restaurant prepared by a fine chef. Sure, you eat in both settings, but where would you rather spend your time?

  49. While SJF is sharing some gold, I also have to challenge a bit. Example: I’m what most people think of as an extrovert but I actually gain energy from being alone. The much simpler explanation is that I have an anxiety disorder and socialization raises my anxiety, whereas being alone does not. Just be very careful about these assumptions about who you are and who you are not, please.

  50. @Eh Intellect – Also, someone up thread said that “older guys have a hard time finding a girl” – change that. Most men have a hard time finding a girl. They are all looking for the top 20%. Older guys have advantages and disadvantages. But if you understand female mating strategies, you can hack them. It’s that simple.

    The biggest change is seeing yourself as high value. For older guys just gaming who’ve never been successful with hot women, you have no reference experiences. So you have go through all that rejection you should have gotten when you were younger that would have formed you into being better with women. Now you have to work through it by “technique” and routines to start so you actually can experience some of it. Once you feel attraction from a young hottie, you ‘ll know it’s possible. Then things start to change. Until then you have to “act as if” which is great cuz it will make see how poorly you see yourself.

    Simple question: If you were a young hottie, would you fuck you? If not, why would one of them? What kind of ride are you on the carousel? Me? I used to work on the ‘aging rock star’ vibe but that was not really authentic for me. Me? I’m smart. I attract women who refer to themselves as “sapiophiles” – women intensely attracted to intelligent men. That’s the HB9 for me, and I didn’t know it until she explained it to me. You have to get one into your orbit so you can learn. What I eventually realized is that I still assumed that deep down inside, men and women were very similar.

    But we are not. Women have very different approaches to mating than men do. Just try and observe. Great tip that worked for me. Start by gaming young women you don’t find attractive. The fatties, the dumpy ones. Pretty soon, you’ll realize you could bang on of them in a men’s room. And then work your way up from HB3s to HB5 and then HB8 or better. Eventually, you’ll realize that HB8 and above are not as hard as you think. The HB5-6s will wear your ass out cuz they are usually kidding themselves about their hotness these days. Most HB8 ad better of course get a lot of attention, but it’s mostly idiots who spray their pants after two sentences or are hyper aggressive or whatever.

    Hint for hotties? Relate to them. I tell them that I’ve dated beautiful women my whole life (pre-selection) and that most people don’t understand them. Depending on where we are at in our interactions, I may talk about how super hot girls just can’t trust men because so many pretend to want to be friends. Or how other girls are so jealous. Or how just because they are beautiful, people assume they don’t have problems. Also, you must neg the HB8, but not in the a-hole way I’ll neg a 5-6 (i don’t give a fuck about banging any of them, occasionally one will fall on my dick anyway…i usually destroy them and make them an alpha widow just a payback for being such pains in the asses, like those bitches just don’t know their place in the world).

    But a truly beautiful, interesting woman? Her life and appearance are like art to her. She curates a very compelling existence. They are worth the investment for me. But I have to be careful to keep multiple plates with the hotties cuz I can become needy due to the high level of lust involved.

    @Rollo – So, can you tell me, was my long post too pornographic? Can you tell me what the limits are here? Or did that post just not go through for some reason?

  51. Scribbs

    Hint for hotties? Relate to them. I tell them that I’ve dated beautiful women my whole life (pre-selection) and that most people don’t understand them. Depending on where we are at in our interactions, I may talk about how super hot girls just can’t trust men because so many pretend to want to be friends. Or how other girls are so jealous. Or how just because they are beautiful, people assume they don’t have problems.

    Yes! I have a nice routine built up around this.

    Me: You have PGS…
    Her: what?
    Me: Pretty Girl Syndrome…

    and then go into all those points with a lot of NLP YES head nods “it suck right? All the people judging you all the time? Right? people have no idea what you really think and feel, just their own assumptions? Right?” etc…

    Gold. But again, at the right time… Good comfort isolation material.

  52. “and then go into all those points with a lot of NLP YES head nods “it suck right? All the people judging you all the time? Right? people have no idea what you really think and feel, just their own assumptions? Right?”

    ya. very powerful shit

  53. @Scrib
    Thanks – your comments and rants are always interesting to read. And I find you are highly nonjudgmental. That SB thing is certainly an education and an eye-opener.

    ” have simple question for you: How’s that working out for you? ”
    It’s not, obviously. But since blowing up my 28-year ltr about 4 years ago I’ve made great progress. That progress needs to continue. I’ve avoided the Cold Approach but I’ve been playing and replaying that scenario in my head for the past little while. And there’s always that after-thought of “idiot – I should have done this…” after some interaction with some young lady…

    “neuroplasticity” – I know this. I need to make more effort to get out there and hurt my brain.

    “The Sedona Method” and “Personality Hacker” (thanks SJF) ordered…

    I do understand Mystery method. My reference to Mystery was more like I’m not the bar-scene guy – being 5’6″ makes me a manlet in these environments and I done have that imposing personality to pull it off.
    The ability to open groups and merge forward/back sets etc. presumes having that kind of personality so yeah – the long game or the lone wolf game is more what I can accomplish.

  54. So, a little more about me. And Myers-Briggs.

    It’s just a tool in the Red Pill Toolbox.

    I’ve built a strong foundation of information. I’ve been reading books since early childhood and have built an empire of knowledge. And I’m by far not a keyboard jockey (references upon request).

    Via Red Pill and the manosphere, and not just Red Pill Manosphere, but also a well-rounded discussion of stuff from originally the old nascent type of forums like Prodigy in the 90’s, Glocktalk forum including firearms but also general guy stuff in like 2002-2009 era, AR-15.com firearms shit in the last half of the 2000 to 2010 era. A sportsman’s forum in the 2009 to the present. And also the Manosphere per se, from 2014 onward.

    All the time reading lots and lots of non-fiction books. But also using that info in the field, not just living in a fantasy world of the mind. Out doing action.

    For the past 5-6 years, I’ve developed a parallel talent for getting mentors and being a mentor.

    Scribbler changed my life for the better by online collaboration in 2015 in a big way. It’s gratifying to see him more effective at turning his fucked up life around in a productive way. And always a joy to hear his comments. Part of this talk about the distaste for personality functions and preferences and personality typology investigation is the fact that he had to tread lightly on investigating his own subconscious. Jesus, there were some monsters in that fucking abyss.

    Also Rollo hates Myers Briggs because of the faggy, Blue Pill/Purple pill use and abuse of it by Astrology types that didn’t understand how to use it in a Red Pill Fashion. Although, there is some good use of it by the INTJ intellectual Type BlackLabelLogic, to be sure.

    https://blacklabellogic.com/2016/08/06/psychological-types/

    For the past two years I’ve collaborated with Roused and for the past year with EhIntellect, LTR and MRP guys respectively. That collaborating was benefited by personality typology as well as the extensive learning via reading good, good shit.

    What happened along the journey, was that Myers-Briggs shit really made a difference. It was never a focus, it was a complement to understanding our blind-spots. (And truth be told, those other guys came up with my blind spots without really dealing with MBTI at all. I used it on me and them.)

    And it made sense as a tool. What happened actually was that it revealed each of us three’s blindspots, our ego investments that were faulty and let us find our better paths. It was a way to self improve. We talked field reports endlessly. We figured out our shit by honest masculine enjoy your male friends (buddy’s more appropriately) criticism. We had each other’s backs and took that collaboration to the bank. It really worked out great. We told each other their blind spots. We developed our inferior functions in order to be more whole and integrated. We found some uniquely brilliant functions in the other to emulate (to be mentored by).

    We got into a never ending series of great Flow States and peak experiences. (And always get laid by our LTR partners on a regular basis. That’s fun.)

    The Myers-Briggs was a sideshow, but it was a useful tool.

    This is part of the Personality Hacker Witt, Dodge introduction to their book:

    If you don’t know who you are and what motivates you, control is out of your hands. You are at the mercy of people who know how your mind works better than you do. Do you want to be vulnerable or would you like to get to know yourself, your learning styles, and your motivational core?

    Nearly all people grapple with the same series of questions: “What is my purpose, my meaning?” “What should I spend my life doing?” “Who should I spend it with?” When the answers to these questions don’t make themselves known, we can become anxious, afraid we’re running out of time, or uncertain of our own futures.

    When you spend time and effort getting to know yourself, you 1) spot opportunities when they are right for you, 2) avoid wasting time on the wrong things, and 3) trust that things will happen when the timing is right, without heaping blame on yourself or otherwise getting into self-destructive cycles.

    Then:

    Introduction

    Who are you really? How do you describe yourself?

    How do you discover your true inner self and forge a path forward?

    We’re a technological species, so let’s stick with what we’re good at. If we can develop consumer technologies that make our daily tasks effortless and medical technologies that will keep us alive past the age of 100, then why can’t we look at social technologies that can empower us through the chaos of our lives?

    Social and personal technologies have been in development for thousands of years. They are our religions, belief systems, meditation practices, and politics. We organize ourselves and our information into what Timothy Leary would call “reality tunnels”: These are our preferred ways of experiencing the world, and we try to stay in alignment with those tunnels.

    It’s possible, in a world that overwhelms the ancient programming of our nervous systems, to find and develop technologies that can help us hack into the systems of our very identity to become the change the world desperately needs. No other technologies are slowing down anytime soon. We need to play some catchup.

    This book introduces you to one of the personal and social technologies we’ve found to have the most power in our lives: personality typology.

    Of course, no model or system will ever completely explain your identity. You are much too complex for that. Just as standing on a map doesn’t transport you to a given location, learning about an element of your personality doesn’t suddenly deconstruct you to being only that thing. And just as a finger can point you to the moon, you don’t want to get too enamored with the finger. Focus instead on what it’s pointing to.

    Once you gain increased awareness of all the elements of yourself, you can use your understanding in a million different applications. But one application we do request of you (it’s not a little thing): Please use the contents of this book to become the best version of yourself possible. The world needs us all to show up, be less consumed in our own egos, and infect the social ecosystem with the best ideas and memes possible. As a happy coincidence, doing this also means becoming a generally happier person with greater success rates in all areas of life.

    One of the best tools we’ve found for discovery of the self is personality. Your personality isn’t who you are, but it can be a map or guide to discover who you are. And it is our belief that personality can not only help you find yourself as you are, but can also be a guide to help you become who you want to be.

    In this book, we address the Myers-Briggs typology system and its foundation, the eight cognitive functions defined by psychiatrist Carl Jung. Using these models, we can see that there are unique and powerful expressions of the self that live deep inside each of us. It’s our life’s work to uncover and grow that true self.

    What You’ll Gain from This Book

    This book goes beyond general personality-type descriptions and dives into Carl Jung’s cognitive functions, or what we’ve come to think of as the wiring of your mind. It takes personality theory to the next level and gives you a host of benefits, including:

    •Insight into how your mind learns information and makes decisions

    •Discovering the best decision-making criteria to increase both the strength of your judgments and your confidence in yourself

    •Awareness of which activities will help you grow as a person and improve your life

    •A diagnostic of your natural strengths and blind spots

    •The ability to get into a flow state

    •Knowledge of how to manage and improve your own energy cycles

    •Creating mastery by reallocating time toward your natural preferences

    •Finding your hidden talents and bringing them into the world

    •Recognizing all parts of yourself, even the unfamiliar, and learning how to integrate them into your identity

    •Giving yourself permission to be who you really are, and giving others permission to be themselves, as well

    Some other great shit I read was:

    Vadim Zeland’s Reality Transurfing.

    Kevin Dutton’s The Wisdom of Psychopaths.

    Dave Gray’s Liminal Thinking.

    Ward Farnsworth’s The Practicing Stoic: A Philosophical Users Manual.

    And new: Robert Greene’s The Laws of Human Nature. I’m still only 10% into that one, but it is going to prove to be simply a masterpiece.

  55. ” . . . Rollo hates Myers Briggs because of the faggy, Blue Pill/Purple pill use and abuse of it by Astrology types . . .”

    The Chick Crack astrology types are where it came from. It was never anything more than a Tarot card type thing dressed up in a psuedo scientific skin. The fact that it was ever taken seriously as psychology is the misuse of it.

    I have found that Tarot cards have their uses in clinical psychology , but I don’t mistake them for psychology.

  56. There is no psychological validity to it. That is the error of understanding its value. It doesn’t have validity. It’s a useful tool. Most people are clinical retards. Keep them away from it. It can only be a shiny object for them. That’s where chick crack resides. Shiny object.

    I have medical patients every fucking day that don’t subscribe to valid medical principles. They all have preferences. They all have biases. They have non-Flow States and they are all stressed out. They don’t have of framework of understanding. They all have blind spots. And ego investments. (here we go crude with the fact that men in the manosphere get clinically retarded and “step on their own dick, and try to analyze the imprint”, in an autistic way.) It’s really a lack of Know Thyself.

    So Psychology be damned. Self knowledge is Self Knowledge. Who cares about validity, if it is half accurate and you know more than you did yesterday. And you pulled yourself out of your ass?

    So what? What is one to do with their understanding and their biases and their preferences?

    Say fuck it? Who gives a shit on how we have preferences for personality functions?

    The mistake is in tying it to Jungian personality functions and not realizing that it is geared towards personality preferences. Which has to do with how you want to engage with the world and sometimes fall short. Because of your shortcomings. Your retarded functions, that you have preferences for, but are undeveloped.

    How you want to step over that abyss. A tool for Know Thyself. Red Pill Guys, working on blind spots, in my experience aren’t that likely to give a shit about it can be Chick Crack.

    Some of the uses of it is praxeology.

    Who gives a shit if it’s not true Scotsman Psychology?

  57. @scrib

    As a youth and ATMI Iv’e moments of genius. Then I’ve had moments of implosion.

    Oh my man. Just out of reach over God’s fingers is terrifying.

    To hate and love yourself is hell on Earth.

    Something’s gotta give.

    In blessed I’m not dead.

  58. @EhIntellect – So that is your dance. Embrace it. Be it. Be the best fucking version of it ever. While I would disagree with SJF’s assessment of my psychology in the sense that I have delved quite deeply into it long before the Red Pill, he’s not wrong that I’m was victim of multiple ptsd qualifying physical traumas by age 8. That, coupled with an actually terroristic father and then the death of my mother, and then my dad and stepmom splitting when I was 15. And my dad was a drunk of sorts (alcoholism isn’t a disease) but also deeply deranged. An actual sadist. That giddy glee in the eye when attacking…My older brother and I discussed his death two years after his passing. He received more abuse than I had…We both agreed that we both felt safer now that he’s dead. Older bro is career-badass militaryintel/le/ss/dhs who at 61 is still putting up 350 on the bench. He’s scared of very few people…

    Contending with all that took 15 years of therapy, on and off from age 14 through about 40. Modalities were talk, psychodrama (extensive, including lots of body movement associated with it – ‘yoga psychodrama’), freudian analysis, CBT (a pile of shit, only good for people who don’t have actual psychological problems), rational emotive psychotherapy, and group therapy in numerous settings. I checked myself into a inpatient “Co-dependency Treatment Program”. Call it a planned psychological collapse brought on by nonstop psycho-drama. It’s very interesting how important experiential therapy is to recovery from trauma. While some aspects of talk therapy added to my sense of crazy…I also did actual Reichian Therapy. Did tons of AA, Sex Addicts Anonymous, Gamblers Anonymous, CoDependents Anonymous, and I was even a member of the “triple winners club” AA group in which to qualify you had to be an adult child of an alcoholic, were abused as a child and were an alcoholic yourself. And I won’t go into all the new agey, healing stuff I did. I will tell you, the experiential, flakey things sometimes were much more profound than any therapy session…

    I’ve also gone through extensive treatment for PTSD. Re-exposure therapy is amazing – but it takes courage. REM therapy was useless for me. I went past it and actually re-visualized my traumas, which is a way of re-wiring the neurology by creating new associations with and existing memory. I literally play back the traumatic event like a movie in my head and re-write it. It makes no sense until you do it. I let my imagination go, reliving one particularly awful trauma in which I’m simply rescued by a big swan that flies in and picks me up, and the scene explodes with feathers and everyone dancing around. Sounds insane, but it rewires the traumas.

    As for the “monsters”, what SJF and many other people cannot understand is how something like this shapes you. Set aside the fucking psychology for a moment, and try to think about what a person might decide to be in this earth having been victimized by numerous people extensively during his childhood? Well first of all, at a certain moment I started fighting back. Then I realized that many people on this earth were scared to confront their own goddamned shadows, let alone difficult truths or bullies.

    I loathe nothing more than a bully, and if he’s big, I just bring a fucking baseball bat. I also have low tolerance for BS when I’m just being myself. In the world, I can behave however I choose too. Example: I helped put together a panel on women in the business world the other night, basically a #MeToo festival. I “listened” and was “in the conversation” and appeared by all accounts to be the evolved leader I’m supposed to project into this effed up society. Done – no problem. Every time. But here I just tell you what I think. Cuz I do think. And I want to. It’s also my special lot in life to punch back and to cut through BS. One risk of doing this (same risk all alpha dogs face) is that some white-knighting mangina will come along and shame you for being this way.

    @SJF – Using my psychology to shame me reveals more about you than me. I’ll go back and defend every comment I’ve made here about the BS artists and beta whiners. I mean every word, and my arguments are sound. I’ll debate your ass into the earth, SJF…any time. It’s always light work. Hint: You try way too fucking hard.

    Let’s do a little more of that, since you deign to talk down to me. What you were so ineptly trying to describe about Myers-Briggs is that it is correlated with observable behavior and other pscyho-graphic factors in people. It seems to have utility, particularly to a medical doctor as the entire traditional medical field seeks to reduce everything to a narrow “disease” with a known “cure”. But one of the biggest problems with entire psychology industry is the medicalization of so many behavioral issues. We see this in addiction poignantly, as serious scientists have proved for 20 years that alcoholism and addiction in general in no way meet medical definitions of diseases. Instead of insisting on science prevailing, the medical community buckled and agreed to treat “disorders” so they can fucking bill for it, lol. Having been through the mill psychologically and psychiatrically, in addition to dealing with numerous injuries from various dangerous hobbies, I’m quite clear on the limitations of medical practice as evinced by the likes of @SJF diagnosing me from blog comments.

    Re:SJF It’s a violation of his canon of ethics actually to say what he said here. He’s not supposed to diagnose anyone he hasn’t examined, he’s not to use the authority granted to him as an MD in this way. It’s considered unethical by every medical specialty association I know of. And what’s his specialty anyway? Dermatology or something? It ain’t psychology. Big difference between me and him? I don’t comment on shit I don’t understand…So yeah, take your dime store psychological nonsense and stuff it.

    But in general, the consequence of my upbringing is that I’m put on this earth to be a scythe, not a spoon. Scythes are needed. Particularly in this fucking joint in which a certain amount of BS just goes by due to personality politics. Me? Looks like a target-rich environment, hehe, where I can just let it rip…

    I call it like I see it. What’s not here, fyi, is a post I did yesterday that was more what you guys see from me regularly. A decimation of the victim mentality so many supposed “Red Pill” men have about female sexual strategies. It’s pathetic. I was also a bit pornographic describing my latest conquest and some other stuff. Very rough…I think Rollo held it back. Which is okay, that’s his prerogative, I wouldn’t mind an update on standards and rules for posts here.

    I’m not driven by my monsters in the sense implied by SJF’s comments. Nope – I punch intentionally. I have control over it. I do it when I want to. And boy, do I want to here at times. As for this little episode, over-psychologizing shit is one of the common poses of our time. Talking to me about being “clinical”, lol, the psychiatric and psychological fields are filled with so much rank bullshit that calling it a science is a stretch. I took the time to read two very difficult medical school textbooks on neurology and bipolar disorder when I was incorrectly diagnosed with it in the late ’90s. I was astonished by how little they knew about the disorder and the neurology and brain chemistry involved. The treatments themselves were poorly understood and the effectiveness observed was much less than I assumed they would have to be in order to be doled out as “cures”.

    Psychology isn’t a science. https://philosophynow.org/issues/74/Is_Psychology_Science Many of its theories are much more like mythology than many therapists would tell you. I happened to eventually stumble upon an amazing therapist, a man, who was always humble about what he actually knew from the “science” of his clinical experience. He had a masters and did 5 years clinical work beyond that, so he was quite well trained compared to the average therapist one encounters. He was also very up to speed on the latest stuff in the field that was happening and he’d present it to me. But it was all highly speculative and couched in, “Well, let’s try this out and see if it works.” An experiment with a sample of one, the control and the experiment all in one subject, with one biased observer. LOL. Science it ain’t…

    This place is fucking toxic in some ways…I just react accordingly. It is fun to dive in from time to time.

  59. Hey Scribbs,

    Lighten up Frances.

    ,,,,, a quote from the movie Stripes starring Bill Murray. It was made by the platoon leader to a boot camp soldier who was speaking and acting paranoid about others picking on him, or approaching him in an undesired manner.

    It means, ” Okay, just stop and settle down. You’re over reacting.”

    ” SJF: Hint: You try way too fucking hard.”

    No shit, Sherlock. It works for me. And Guess what? I’m in a good place. (references available on request…)

    “A decimation of the victim mentality so many supposed “Red Pill” men have about female sexual strategies. It’s pathetic.”

    Not me for sure. I love everything about Red Pill and male and female sexual strategy. I like how I am and if I went back in my life, I’d to it all over again the same way. Go figure. BTW, my strategy is working too, despite how it was three years ago….

    I’m not diagnosing you with anything, I’m having a non medical debate/discussion/man to man back and forth on the internet. (Call it shit testing you if you want to…) It’s not for any other reason than to trade ideas. (Although I did diagnose EhIntellect once. And that turned out good.)

    The deal is with this deal: Dismissing Myer-Briggs out of hand is fine for you Rollo and KFG. Some one like BlackLabelLogic and I can use it as a tool. So fucking what? You going to get Butthurt about that?

    Didn’t mean to trigger you.

    Did I mention that I like you and your style?

    Were different. So what. We still should be on the same team.

    And I like your positive attitude about Red Pill and Game a lot. That resonates with me.

  60. “Well, let’s try this out and see if it works.”</i.

    Let's try some of this out and see if it doesn’t work with no biases going into the fray.

    I read that in a book once….

  61. “Talking to me about being “clinical”, lol, the psychiatric and psychological fields are filled with so much rank bullshit that calling it a science is a stretch. “

    I had dual specialties. I did psychology rotations. I had girlfriends I was fucking soon after that. One was a BPD and another had a schizophrenic break (heh, not my fault, I dindu nuffin…) It turned my stomach to witness psychological pathology. I wasn’t attracted to the clinical specialty to practice it. I couldn’t stand the pathology of the patients.

    But I didn’t take nothing away from those reference experience and I live in an environment of psychologically healthy people, Law #10 of Power and All.

    So sue me.

  62. “Why the fuck would they expect us not to judge them on the metrics that matter to us? Because that’s inconvenient for them ? Suck it up buttercup you can’t change nature because it doesn’t fit your narrative.”

    Been off here for a few weeks and have a lot of catchup. Noticed that comment from a few pages back.

    That is dog language. Girls don’t speak that well, much less understand it. They are not wired for dog language and if you expect them to get it you will constantly be frustrated by it.

  63. @ scrib and others

    I try to put my life in perspective, and it is up to me to enjoy it with peace of mind. The first step is letting go of the past as hard as that might be.

    I’m not judging or prescribing any course, though shit gets out of hand fast without forgiveness. War is not a product of political decisions. Nope.

    The League of Nations signed 4568 peace treaties between 1920 and 1939. 211 were signed in the 11 months prior to WW2. These treaties we’re not written in the heart of the signers. This isn’t a hx lesson.

    Are we writing here as detached diplomats, holding our freewill at arm’s length from our acts? Do we even recognize, unbuffered, our fear to face the fire? When we face that fire, then what? Do we put fire out with fire? Firemen use water, I’ve heard.

    Perhaps we should too before we succumb to the heat. Have a good weekend.

    https://youtu.be/3LRV4t0iIxA

  64. As @palmasailor referenced @Sentient saying a while back way up the thread “the biggest problem is getting yourself (an over 40’s male) in their (a 19-25 year old females) proximity.”

    The parenthesis are mine to add clarity to the statement this far down the thread.

    My question is for the older single guys (@scribblerg specifically but others jump in as well) where exactly are you meeting 19-25 year old females? Spare me any of the you just go through life and meet them rhetoric if that’s where you’re gonna take it. I’m looking for specifics here. Like a list of where/how you met the last five 19-25 year olds you were with.

    Sorry married guys I’m not interested in your opinions here since they often comes off as fantasy to me with a lot of what you perceive as IOI’s being nothing more than attention grabbing attempts from young women where if you were single and actually tried following up on them would lead you nowhere. And the married men that are actually getting younger women your opinions are skewed as well. Having your main squeeze at home to fall back on at the end of the day while attempting to pick up other girls is a completely different mindset than being single.

  65. @lendhispeaks

    “Spare me any of the you just go through life and meet them rhetoric if that’s where you’re gonna take it.”

    “where if you were single and actually tried following up on them would lead you nowhere.”

    Lmao

    “I’m looking for specifics here”

    Not over 40, but the top 5 would be:

    – Art galeries
    – High end lounges
    – Happy hour at trendy bars
    – Trendy restaurants w/bar area
    – Museums

    Although, I think Scribbs only fucks young girls from online dating apps. Which isn’t seduction nor pickup.

  66. ” I’m looking for specifics here. Like a list of where/how you met the last five 19-25 year olds you were with.”

    Well first I”ve met most of them at the ……… OMG

    Then there is always the………. don’t read this honey.

  67. Serious curious question, so most of you guys ‘ looking ‘ for young chicks really not see any when you walk out of your front door?

    Really?

  68. @j am I remembering correctly from an earlier post that you’re in the NYC area as well?
    If so I’d be interested in hearing some lounge suggestions. If you know any with a dartboard that would be ever better!

    @Blax, serious answer to ur serious question, even though ur not the demo I was asking my original question to (;, Yes. But that isn’t the point though of why I asked what I asked. I already knew that.

  69. ” . . . that isn’t the point though of why I asked what I asked.”

    I didn’t answer the question because you told me to take my answer and stuff it, so, I stuffed it.

    I do have a question of my own though which you have now raised yourself, so:

    What was the point of it?

  70. Yes @kfg I do have a very specific demo I am targeting with the question.

    The point of it u ask…you want the long or short version?!

    Here’s the short (and only) version: If I’m going to take even a shred of what I come across here as believable the answer to my question should be simple. If you fit the demo it’s simple to answer it, you’d think. But it’s not, as we’re seeing. @j had a great answer, as expected, but he’s too young lol.

  71. @lendhispeaks

    Lounges in NYC I’ve been to, that I think an older guy can pull HB7+ <25 year old chicks:

    Le Bain – Meatpacking District
    PhD – Meatpacking District
    Mr. Purple – LES
    W Hotel – Times Square
    Freehold – Williamsburg

  72. Lendhispeaks

    Are you retarded?

    Serious question.

    Where do you think young girls are?

    Where are there populations of 18 to 22 year olds? Can you think of any place like that?

    Hint – colleges

    Any coffeeshop, juice bar or yoga place will be full. Any outdoor space will be full. An easily identifiable stretch of bars and clubs proximate to campus will be full.

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