As a few of my readers know my daughter is presently a sophomore at college. Every time she reaches a new milestone in her life I have a tendency to mentally go back in time in my own life and consider how utterly different her experiences are in comparison to my own. At 19 the thought of being as organized and honestly well off as she is in life now would never have occurred to me. For a very brief moment in my life back then I’d kept a journal of what it was I was doing and thinking at the time. My first ‘real’ girlfriend had given me this blank journal (she was one of those girls who wrote diaries) to write my thoughts in and being the Beta I was then most of it was filled with my Blue Pill frustration with girls. She’d gifted me this journal, I found out later, as an effort to absolve her of all the guilt she knew was coming her way for having cheated on me and deciding that, at 18 herself, she wanted to move on into her Party Years without the baggage of a dutiful Beta who thought he was going to marry her.
This was 1988 and the then 19 year old Rollo Tomassi was very much a typical Blue Pill Beta. I sometimes read back through the dozen or so pages I actually took the time to write back then to remind myself how I thought back then. I was very much and idealistic Beta back then, but I had several other friends who subscribed to the same Blue Pill delusions; and now with hindsight I realize this phase in a Beta’s life is one that was around long before and long after I went through it. This was the ‘Break Phase’ I outline in Preventive Medicine.
As it turned out, the girl who I predictably developed ONEitis for, the first girl to spread her legs for me (‘enthusiastically’), the girl I thought had to be “quality” if she appreciated a guy like me, was every bit the ‘play the field’ skank I would’ve never called her because it was what a “typical male” would say about her. At one point I had thought I’d want to marry her. My Blue Pill conditioning had taught me it would be the right, “supportive” thing to do; marry her and support her ambitions and goals (it’s what good Blue Pill boys ought to do) at the sacrifice of my own. And as directionless as I was then, that was an easy decision to make.
My daughter recently informed me that her boyfriend’s best friend just proposed to his girlfriend at 19. Both this guy and his girlfriend are also sophomores at the same school and this is what triggered the reminiscing for me. At 49, and having lived the life I have and the experiences I use on this blog today, I’m very glad my first girlfriend dumped me. That’s hard to say sometimes, particularly when I think back on the pit of misery years I spent with the BPD girlfriend I’d gotten involved with later, but I’m thankful for those bad experiences as much as the good ones. So, it’s really difficult for me to tell my daughter’s friend “oh, congratulations”.
It’s very difficult for me to endorse anyone getting married at so early an age these days or when I was 19. Modern marriage is a menagerie of horrors for today’s men. People say, “Rollo you’re married, how come you’re so hard on marriage?” It’s either that or they presume my marriage is a shit show and I’m venting like a petulant boy. When I’m critical of marriage it’s in spite of my own (very happy for 21 years) marriage. But I cannot condone it for men today – not in its present state. Hardline MGTOWs and PUAs agree on one thing, if you ever consider marriage you’re Blue Pill. I’ve written in many prior posts that I don’t necessarily agree with that assessment, but I do understand it. The risks today far outweigh the rewards, but still there are men who, even with Red Pill awareness, will still take it on.
There’s a running debate I have going on with Hunter Drew (The Family Alpha) and Tanner Guzy (Masculine Style) about how marriage is a lifestyle decision, and depending on how informed a man is about the risks he assumes and when he decides to get married, this decision is literally a question of life or death for that guy. Both these guys married early in life, both have kids, and both will have far different experiences than myself in this respect. Both of them and myself have assumed the risks and sacrifices this entails. I’m fully aware that my wife can detonate the marriage at any time. I’m sure both Hunter and Tanner are well aware that their wives also have the right to have them removed from their home and take their children away from them for any reason. But we’re all married, and as I wrote in Surrender, we have all willingly put ourselves in the most vulnerable position a man can be in; we’ve bet our lives, livelihoods and the future health and happiness of our kids and families on what today is the ultimate suckers bet for a man. And what’s worse, we cannot ever expect women or our wives to ever relate with just how dangerous a position we willingly put ourselves in.
So I’m thinking about all of this after my daughter tells me about this 19 year old kid proposing to his girlfriend. Statistically his marriage will end before he’s 28. I would also bet that, like myself at 19, he’s making a decision that will affect him and his fiancé’s based on Blue Pill idealism – an idealism that’s informed by the Feminine Imperative and delusions of egalitarian equalism. Naturally I can’t possibly think this is a good idea. If I were this boy’s father I’d strongly advise against it, but there are others in the manosphere who would encourage this.
“Grown” Men
There’s an old saying that goes “marriage is our last, best chance for growing up”. I also disagree with this from the perspective of today’s version of marriage, but I understand how homey platitudes like this are appealing to a social order of men who it seems don’t want to grow up. It’s becoming a new way of AMOGing (particularly in religious circles); if you’ve got your shit together enough to see the wisdom in being married and starting a family you’re a “better man” than the ‘boys’ who they believe want to extend their adolescence. It’s really nothing new.
According to strategic pluralism theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.
This is one half of strategic pluralism theory for men. Men who invest themselves in the long term aspect will always look for ways to validate their inability or unwillingness to pursue multiple partners. It’s easy to think that these men make their necessity a virtue, and that may or may not be the case, but what’s undeniable is that investing themselves in a one-mate strategy necessarily selects them out of experiences with women that would otherwise aid them in vetting a woman as a good long term prospect. The Blue Pill has always subjugated men to be predisposed to the one-mate investment strategy while simultaneously encouraging women to adopt a multiple mate strategy. That may seem counterintuitive, but when we look at the Sheryl Sandberg plan for Hypergamy we can see that what they believe is prudence is having a large selection of potential husbands from which to choose.
In Trad-Con manosphere thinking it seems like conventional wisdom to encourage men and women to marry younger. Look at where we’re at today; women forestall marriage – ostensibly to further a career, but really to falsely extend their Hypergamous decision making years – until their Epiphany Phase (29-31) or even beyond by freezing their eggs. Men take much more time to mature into their peak SMV potential, but what’s the common complaint? These men aren’t “being men” by preparing themselves for a life of family and marriage. They aren’t catering their lives’ decisions to fulfill women’s sexual strategy, and really what incentive do they have to when women are following the Sandbergian path of Hypergamy? Men and women marry later and later – if at all. Women unmarried by the time they’re 34-35 are likely to never marry in their lives.
Marrying Early
So it seems like wisdom to tell this kid, “good on you”, in spite of all the odds staked against him and despite the Blue Pill idealistic delusions that are prompting him to propose. Trad-Cons love the idea of a return to something resembling “traditional values” in order to save western culture from itself, but it’s important to remember that those old books values are really just leverage in a new books world.
Marrying early, as I said, is usually the result of Blue Pill naiveté. Both young men and women are still ignorant of who they are or who they have a potential to become. I see a lot of early-marrieds originating in religious circles because this is their only means to “legitimate” sex, but there are the guys who see marrying early a better way to ensure ‘permanent’ sex for themselves. In some respects it’s almost a blessing that women at this age are so anti-marriage – most young men on the investment side of strategic pluralism are far too willing to kill their own dreams to accommodate their investment.
Marriages that begin between 20-24 are almost 39% more likely to end in divorce. A lot of this, I speculate, is due to women feeling like they need to make up for missing out. The idealism of young Blue Pill men marrying early has one big obstacle and that’s the influence of Hypergamy on their wives. In Preventive Medicine I made the case that no matter the woman’s choices she makes or has made for her in life, it will not negate Hypergamy’s influence on her. Yes, that influence can be mitigated culturally (laughable in western societies) or personally, but it doesn’t remove the evolved influence. By the time that 20 year old mother and wife is 30, she’s had ten years to develop the resentment of her choice by living vicariously through her single girlfriends’ experiences. The context may change, but Hypergamy doesn’t.
Early marriage limits a man’s potential. Trad-Cons will fight me on this one, but the responsibilities of marriage and parenting will necessarily limit a man from opportunities he would otherwise have were he single. Aristotle said, “The Ideal age for marriage in men is 35. The Ideal age for marriage in women is 18”, not unlike my sexual market value graph, but the reason for this is because it takes much longer for a man to establish himself as a man. The simple truth is that part of the sacrifice of being married means a man will not be able to capitalize on opportunities he would have were he single. Some opportunities may never even be made available to him because of him being married. This isn’t something most early-marrying men consider.
Men who marry early and stick it out through their peak SMV years often feel the mid-life crisis (epiphany) years much more acutely. This is kind of the man’s making up for missing out resentment a wife may feel as she becomes more and more aware that she can’t compete in the SMP for a better Hypergamous prospect. I don’t believe men have a “crisis” per se around this time, but what they do experience is a sense of introspection that’s colored by their now better capacity to understand the game they’ve been a part of with regards to women. When a man’s married well this is less of an issue, but there is a definite remorse over the “life he could’ve lived” if only he’d known better. This is an assessment of the sacrifices he’s made, how they paid off (if at all) and a sort of survey of his life up to that point.
The biggest ‘con’ to early marriage is that it’s always going to be a learn as you go prospect while trying to establish a world that a his wife of the future will want to defer herself to. This worked far better in a culture and time when women would be compelled to defer to a man’s mastery due to religion, social norms and respect. We do not live in those day anymore and women have actionable ‘outs’ of any commitment that doesn’t suit them, while men have more responsibilities to qualify themselves to suit women.
Advantages?
Early marriage has a few advantages, but all of these depend on the personal nature of the woman a man marries. That sounds kind of obvious, but if you go into a marriage with a solid Frame and a woman who expects to defer to your dominance, I think young marrieds might have a better shot at long term success. If a woman is a virgin, yes, this can be a real source of attachment for her if her husband imprints on her as solidly dominant Alpha. I always advise men not to get involved with a virgin girl if his only plan is to spin her as a plate. There is far too significant and imprinting with virgin women and sex with an Alpha man, or even a guy who seemed Alpha. This is the recipe for an Alpha Widow, but in a marriage it can make for a strong bond.
As has been mentioned countless times, the most stable and healthy way to raise children is in a committed marriage. This might be the only advantage marriage may have for a man today. In an early marriage I would think that a woman being at her sexual market value peak, combined with following her true biological clock (her prime fertility window 22-26) the odds of having happy healthy children are improved. I have a cousin who spent more than half his life building himself into a millionaire architect, but at my age (49) his children are 5 and 7. I can’t imagine living this life now. I suppose money might make it easier, but evolutionarily speaking he and I should effectively be grandfathers by now. I married at 28 and there are advantages and disadvantages to this as well, but I cannot imagine having young children at my age.
Finally, for the “well, duh” moment, it goes without saying that a young wife/mother should necessarily be playing on your team. The only possible successful prospect for a younger marriage to have any stability is if that woman understands what it is she’s sacrificing. Women likewise sacrifice their own personal potentials and later this becomes their source of resentment. The stakes are high for men, particularly if they aren’t Red Pill aware, but women too must understand her own sacrifices; I think this is the most difficult thing. Women’s solipsism, Hypergamous nature and a social order that ‘fempowers’ them to believe not only can they “have it all” but are entitled to it all makes this the bridge too far for young marriage.
In the Trad-Con sphere today there is a constant droning for personal responsibility on the part of men. There is little to none about the responsibilities of women. We’re constantly told that women are only the way they are because men have allowed it. I’ve written before that this is a cop out and an absolving of women’s complicity that mirrors what the Feminine Imperative has put forth. Women are taught not to do anything “for a man” and anything a woman does that might be expressly for a man is is conflated with subservience. Consequently we get generations of women who only indulge their natural solipsism and expect men’s sacrifices as part of the utilities. This is one of the primary reasons all marriages fail; there is no complementarity. Marriage becomes nothing but a naked exchange of resources on the part of the man and anything a woman might do ‘for’ him is frowned upon. And don’t think this is just limited to those blue haired feminists, you can find it at your church.
Women can only willingly want to please a man whose Frame is the dominant one. You’ve got to have that world established that she wants to enter and become a complementary, supportive (of you) and willing participant in. This world-building takes time. Women evolved to seek competency in men. Hypergamy cannot afford to bet all of a woman’s genetic legacy on a guy who has “potential” – they want the proven commodity. This is one reason women look for men older and taller than they are. More importantly, you need a woman who is playing on your team, not against you. And sadly this is the state of marriage promoted by the Feminine Imperative today. Egalitarianism doesn’t promote complementary cooperation, it promotes an adversarial state of competition between husband and wife.
Situational Assessment 2017: Trump Edition Jordan Greenhall Jan 25, 2017 Quote from that essay linked by M. Simon: “For those who want to take action, I have three recommendations: 1. The Blue Church, the Deep State, the Old Media and all the other aspects of the Establishment are holding you back. Free your mind. This is going to be much harder than it sounds. For most people, if you are under 40, your entire development has taken place within the context of the Blue Church. Many of your deepest assumptions and unconscious values are going to have to be examined… Read more »
Blax
Killing it…
“A wife bears your child , and she sees it that way. You’ve gifted her because your not just a guy, or her bf”
The title of this old painting is “Where is my Lord, the King”
That makes her a) a servant and b) the Queen.
“Yes, there’s a fear component at work, and guys don’t like being told they’re afraid of stuff. Ego defense activated.
That hinders growth and understanding.”
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03604/Caravaggio_Judith__3604033k.jpg
“I know some very happy couples that have beautiful families. Surely their marriages aren’t perfect, but I bet the good outweighs the bad by a ton. Fear holds us back. It binds us and places limits. There is less joy with fear.” So you’re saying we should ignore all the divorce statistics cause you personally know “some very happy couples”? LOL. Marriage is broken mate. Some of us scaredy cats want to keep banging young women for the rest of our lives instead of growing old with just one. Some guys want kids. Blackdragon has a chapter in ‘Unchained man’… Read more »
@ all
Experiment.
Read Culum’s, SJF’S and my comments above, then compare what @ j’s response was/is.
“Experiment”
Guys you need to experience a divorce to actually realize marriage isn’t what you want in life.
Been there already. Pay attention ( bangs ruler on podium ).
Holy Shit Batman Watch ‘A Glitch in the Matrix’ – Jordan Peterson/Channel 4: Deep Code Assessment starting @ the 20:03 minute mark. I took the time to transcribe it because I have reference of doing this and I think it is very important in a red pill journey: Advice to navigate this world. First is free your mind, be aware of the fact that the habits of the Blue Church and how it works don’t work anymore. So, if it feels scary to step into a Liminal Space, recognize that that’s OK, that’s what you need to do. Step into… Read more »
… It’s raining hard today. I’d better not drive my car because slippery. Why chance it?
“Guys you need to experience a divorce to actually realize marriage isn’t what you want in life.”
Sounds like a statement from YaReally’s intelligent little cousin. Makes all the sense in the world–as a Strawman statement.
LOLLY gag. Heheh, Don’t tell me my narrative, I can be honest and have my heart be aligned with my cognitive mind just fine.
Interesting discussion on the topic of the marriage, the development of marriage was no accident it serves a wide array of purposes which has been discussed before gone over in detail. Marriage is the foundation of future growth for your next generation(kids) and frankly for yourself(husband, wife), it’s an extremely important foundation from which to build upon. It’s however just that a foundation, it’s not the end , you still have to build the house upon it, and just like any house it requires ongoing maintenance/investment. It’s still possible to have a strong marriage in 2018 but yes you are… Read more »
SJF, “Get much better at making friends. I don’t mean casual acquaintances. And I definitely don’t mean social network contacts. I mean the kinds of people who ready willing and able to actually care for you — even at risk to themselves. Not because of shared ideology or even shared mission, but because of the deep stuff of human commitment.” This is a powerful statement , I grew up with this type of commitment among field workers/farmworkers in my youth and these types of commitments/relationships have been under attack a long time/decades from the state/society/cultural, etc. I would urge caution on this… Read more »
@j For perspective, Rollo’s four part The Reconstruction essay work has the fundamental thesis (spoiler alert) that in order to reconstruct a non-ideal LTR, perhaps one in which Blue Pill or Beta was at play, the reconstruction needs to start with a “breaking up” with your partner to move on with a relationship in a Red Pill Paradigm. And it works. And you get to go on willingly and by your own choice. Just saying. @FoxGuy “I would urge caution on this point these days unless it is family, or long friends of decades.” I disagree. I would favor new… Read more »
If TRM and the RP had been around 10-12 years ago I might still be married today.
Took me a long time post divorce to except this fact. For a while, wanted to piss, moan, complain and point out that the divorce was not my fault. Blame society, FI, ex wife and a bunch of other excuses really was stunting my growth. Once I embraced my many Blue-Pilled shortcomings in life and especially marriage, a world of possibility’s opened up. Moment of Red Pill enlightenment.
j
February 11, 2018 at 7:36 am
So you’re saying we should ignore all the divorce statistics cause you personally know “some very happy couples”?
Are you playing the odds or a particular woman?
@blax @sun One of the few things I ever strongly disagreed with yareally on, was his assertion that our daughters were destined to be giving blowjobs to random guys in club bathrooms. He didn’t believe in real father ability versus social conditioning. Sun handled this well by writing: I’ve seen a lot of “raised better” look “raised worse” really fast. That first year away from home is a motherfucker. Ya’s point wasn’t that there was no fatherly influence. He was arguing against the idea that “Well I’m a dominate alpha male, so my daughters CANNOT turn into sluts.” No, they… Read more »
@ quartermoa
I learn a lot at TRM.that’s why I keep coming back. One thing that’s become apparent is that its easier to get men to understand the biological/evo nature of women than it is to get them to turn the magnifying glass around and point it at themselves.
Hank “Ya was only saying to spend a few years hyperfocused on game when it is easiest, safest, and quickest to learn before moving on to other areas…rather than become one of the legion of dudes that ended up being divorced raped.” Yareally is approaching forty, has no money, apartment in shitty part of town and no car… It is to lol that fanboys are willing to take his advice about ” you have the rest of your life to make money” when he is a poor example, having made none. It’s the equivalent of listing to you about pick… Read more »
https://twitter.com/Blacklabellogic/status/962437414013886465
J
“In his latest book, Ultimate Open Relationship Manual (you don’t need to be an Apex Alpha to pull this off lmao), ”
You do know he has an Alpha 2.0 blog right? And considers himself one?
If it walks talks and quacks like a duck, and in Blackdragon’s case shouts “I am a duck motherfucker!”… It’s probably a duck.
Of course you can’t be 100% absolutely certai. Right? I’m ok with 99.44%.
On the flipside. Show evidence of BP Beta guys breezily spinning plates, let alone xLTR abbreviation salads… With or without kids.
@FoxGuy
“I would urge caution on this point these days unless it is family, or long friends of decades.”
I disagree. I would favor new friends of the red pill type. It’s difficult, prone to not succeeding, and takes work. But the new perspective is important in breaking old habits and developing new mindsets and talents.
@SJF, great would you please borrow me $1000 dollars, pay you back later :)?
@sentient Yareally is approaching forty, has no money, apartment in shitty part of town and no car… So? Who cares? He’s living the life he wants to. He’s not divorced raped, he has his whole life ahead of him. He’s free to do the things he wants to, and be successful with women. Further, he doesn’t live in a “shitty part of town”. He moved to an area close to venues and girls. He opted to live there since thats what his priority. Strange for a guy that can’t stop talking about DPA is so obsessed with materialism. DPA is… Read more »
Lmfao.
@quantermoa: If TRM and the RP had been around 10-12 years ago I might still be married today. True for me too.. I would have used the RP to salvage my BP nightmare. Thank G_d she left me, before I found the RP. I did stumble along unknowingly RP’ish into my next marriage. RP (especially TRP would have stopped me from getting married), which I think would have been her lose. I did have a baby with her, so I stuck around. RP would have saved me from that. Did lose frame over the years, beta’d myself- egalitarian BS and… Read more »
“I know some very happy couples that have beautiful families. Surely their marriages aren’t perfect, but I bet the good outweighs the bad by a ton. Fear holds us back. It binds us and places limits. There is less joy with fear.” from @J: So you’re saying we should ignore all the divorce statistics cause you personally know “some very happy couples”? LOL. Marriage is broken mate. What the fuck, are you channeling Cathy Newman? LOL Where in anything I wrote did I dismiss stats? Stats don’t tell as good a picture of the stories we hear on TRM or… Read more »
“Show evidence of BP Beta guys breezily spinning plates, let alone xLTR abbreviation salads… With or without kids.” Yeah no shit beta guys can’t pull this off. You gotta know how to pick up (hot) girls before you read BD’s shit. BD teaches you how to manage your relationships, not pickup women. I had no idea what Apex Alpha means. I just thought you were saying you need to be extremely alpha to pull this off haha. So my recommendation to beta guys would be (in this order): Guys hyperfocus on game (torrent the top two game products today: The… Read more »
@blax
One thing that’s become apparent is that its easier to get men to understand the biological/evo nature of women than it is to get them to turn the magnifying glass around and point it at themselves.
To learn how to turn the magnifying glass around in a “healthy and productive” way is the real lesson to me of Red Pill. Except the mistakes of your past and learn from them, but don’t make yourself the ant/victim under the microscope being burnt up. We are bigger than that and can handle some healthy self criticism.
@rugby
“Healthy self criticism.”
Hank “So? Who cares? He’s living the life he wants to. ” Work on your reading comprehension. It’s shit advice he gave. That’s ehybit was called out. He didn’t say enjoy and live the life you want… He said there was plenty of time to focus on work. It’s false. You fall into his retarded false dichotomy, work OR girls. They are not mutually exclusive and can and should be pursued simultaneously. Why? Because a) time and b) exponential effects of experience. You don’t get this because you have neither girls or a path to money. Yareally didnt get this… Read more »
Field Report about the Marriage Game Last night I took my wife to a ticketed event to hear love songs by The Beatles in a restaurant bar. The funny thing is she found the event on New Year’s Eve after we had had a multi-day argument, mostly because I had some self-inflicted frame damage and end of year depression. She had pulled a masterful “if not this–then that” shit test. Anyway, after the shit test had been resolved and even though she had recently told me she was tired of doing what I want, Beatles’ music and planning vacations and… Read more »
J
“the top two game products today: The Natural and TenGame)
Read Chateau Heartiste and Rational Male to educated on red pill shit
Read Blackdragon’s The Unchained Man and Ultimate Open Relationship Manual to manage relationships”
J if you focus on all that AND have success… You will be Alpha.
Sorry (?) to break it to you bud, you’re an Alpha. It’s ok to be Alpha 👌 😃
Experience is a thing. Not necessarily. I called Trump winning the election. Countless political analysists belived till the last that he would lose. How is that possible? I have zero political experience. They had decades of experience. Experience, in its self, doesn’t mean you are correct. What makes you correct…is being correct. Now, being experienced does make it more likely you are correct, since you are familiar with the subject at hand. But even being inexperienced you can still do your own research and figure things out. Experience can actually hurt during paradimn shifts. It is difficult to change your… Read more »
@pinelero True for me too.. I would have used the RP to salvage my BP nightmare. Thank G_d she left me, before I found the RP. Strange as it may seem, my wife leaving me was at the same time the worst/best thing that ever happened in my life. Learned so much through this journey and would not go back in time and change it if I could. If I would have been RP, I probably could have made it work, but the “could have, would have, should have about the past” is not based in reality nor helpful in… Read more »
@sentient Work on your reading comprehension. Indeed You fall into his retarded false dichotomy, work OR girls. They are not mutually exclusive and can and should be pursued simultaneously. Why? … Where did I ever say they were mutually exclusive or a dichotomy? I said focus. Doesn’t mean you don’t work. It means when the two come in conflict, you focus on girls. Once you’ve got girls set, you can spend as much time on work as you need. But you want to focus on girls earlier when its easy to get a bunch of experience in. Strawman as usual… Read more »
Hank Forgot you are autistic… “Now, being experienced does make it more likely you are correct, since you are familiar with the subject at hand. But even being inexperienced you can still do your own research and figure things out.” So how did those Generals get there, at the table… To make decisions? Every private has ideas… Which they cannot put into practice, because their experience has limited their influence. Trump has been deeply involved in politics for decades… Ran for Reform Party presidential nomination in 2000. Was close to running back in 1988. I assume your lack of experience… Read more »
@Hank, I’ve been vindicated 5 times since RSD did exactly what I said they would a year and a half ago. Suck Julien’s dick all you want today, tell me how all their old infield shit was great, the fact remains there isn’t a Red Pill guy among them and they’re nothing but a group of infighting Blue Pill chumps squabbling over their attempts to follow the Tony Robbins profiteering model. You continually lie about what happened 1.5 years ago and everyone commenting who was here back then knows it. Ya Really may not have been an RSD shill, but… Read more »
@sentient So how did those Generals get there, at the table… To make decisions? Every private has ideas… Which they cannot put into practice, because their experience has limited their influence. So? They were still wrong about WWI. The point is simply because you are experienced doesn’t mean you are correct. The generals were experienced. They were wrong about WWI. And they were wrong largely because of their experience. They were used to old methods of warfare, and were stuck in their ways of thinking and could not wrap their minds around how machine guns had changed the rules. Yet… Read more »
Hank
And Welles… He started in theatre in 31… Then radio. Which many of us will recall.
He didn’t stroll onto the lot in 41 and get a film deal.
Scratch an “overnight success” and you will find a ton of hard work..
I thought I’d bite on the ‘why get married’ question’, by explaining why I got married, and then saw Blax’s great piece on love and marriage. – (really great Blax, and I’d be super curious to see what would happen if that piece were, say published in a women’s magazine like Cosmo, or even feminist one like Jezebel or the like. More than a few female RP converts, I’d bet). I’m not nearly RP integrated enough to have come up with something like that, but I’ll add my 2 cents: In a word, Family. To my way of thinking, when… Read more »
” @Hank, I’ve been vindicated 5 times since RSD did exactly what I said they would a year and a half ago. Suck Julien’s dick all you want today, tell me how all their old infield shit was great, the fact remains there isn’t a Red Pill guy among them and they’re nothing but a group of infighting Blue Pill chumps squabbling over their attempts to follow the Tony Robbins profiteering model. You continually lie about what happened 1.5 years ago and everyone commenting who was here back then knows it. Ya Really may not have been an RSD shill,… Read more »
http://cdn.chud.com/f/f0/f0c3ee00_friday-damn-large.jpeg
ahhh, there it is.
@rollo Love ya dude, but this is why I bring this up. I’ve been vindicated 5 times since RSD did exactly what I said they would a year and a half ago… the fact remains there isn’t a Red Pill guy among them and they’re nothing but a group of infighting Blue Pill chumps squabbling over their attempts to follow the Tony Robbins profiteering model. I AGREE. I have always agreed. I mentioned that over a year ago. I can’t speak for the other guys, but I agree, and have always agreed with you, that I don’t like the direction… Read more »
Guys over 30 can and do become Red Pill (fortunately for them).
Just for the record, as someone upthread wrote it wasn’t possible or unlikely or some such. Maybe they need some specific pre-conditions… And it sure helps to find a good source of the knowledge at the right time (Rational Male)!
@Rollo: I also wasn’t to get into this (again)… I also love you, but Hank has a point. The quotes are in his post right there. Even great men make mistakes. I don’t know who gave you the info that made you think YaReally was an RSD shill, but you did think that… And at I’d say you implicitly accused him as such. I remember thinking it was very unlikely he was a shill because of the way he posted the vids and curated them to the right places (skipping the advertisements) and more often than RSD he posted specific… Read more »
http://transformedandscaled.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/wamb.jpg
“That’s WHY I bring it up all the time….”
http://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/clint-eastwood-gif-13.gif
shit….
http://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Clint-Eastwood-Reaction-For-a-Few-Dollars-More.gif
@Roused Personally, I’m not getting married again Nor would Rollo by his own admission, and he’s still married. I’m not saying somebody needs a perfect solution. What I’m saying is that the game has changed dramatically in the past 10-20 years, largely due to the first generation raised entirely on a diet of hypergamy unleashed and unabashed demonization of masculinity. Couple that with the fact that marriage remains largely a legal construct geared toward a time when a woman without a man was helpless and you start to see that it’s not just imperfect. It’s a death trap. Honestly I… Read more »
@blax Yup. When I note that we need more research on race and IQ as there is very little research because merely bringing up the subject gets you accused of being a racist, and I make clear I myself am not convinced there is a connection between race and IQ, what happens? How do you react? And fuck you hank you sorry ass little virgin bitch. Nobody, of any race, wants anything to do with your dumb ass. Lol. Go fix your health you sick dickhead. Poor, sick, gameless fucktard got the nerve to talk shit under the guise of… Read more »
” …Its not about working things out and helping people here. Its a bunch of old guys sucking each other off. ”
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tdk6wSISM6I&w=854&h=480%5D
Palma,
She failed test by a hair on her first try, and will take for the second time tomorrow. Though it’s been a pain in the ass having her dependent on me to that extent, it’s good she failed the first time because she is a much better driver now, so I’ll rest easier.
Last one, then I’m gonna eat some grilled chicked – no asparagus.
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxrSr2vV68g&w=854&h=480%5D
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLAfHYhDz2g&w=854&h=480%5D
Asparagus is the vegetable of Satan.
The marriage game? I still don’t see what deal is with what is allegedly a debate with the old married guys allegedly advocating for marriage. No one is doing that. It is being implied. Marriage is not actually the issue for OMG’s, it’s masculine self identity and self directed virtues as well as process and mastery over many things. Enlightened self-interest, awareness and game. I’m married and want to keep being married to a valuable before, during and after fucking her wife. She’s attractive and I enjoy the relationship. (If she were gone I wouldn’t want to get married again,… Read more »
Good thing nobody here is peddling marriage. Just trying to answer questions, and having the answers soundly rejected due to what ” someone else ” is doing/has done. Things change. If you don’t like the changes, ask yourself ” what was done before?”. If you haven’t experienced ” before “, you don’t really know. Maybe you could learn something, maybe not. Maybe it just doesn’t sit right with you. Cool, but it doesn’t negate the reasoning. If I stepped on the court as a member of the Warriors, I’d suck ( and probably hurt myself ), not because the game… Read more »
Hank, I’ve not been closely following the debate going on here, but I do want to say that your attitude wrt to what the “old guys” are saying is not serving you or your life. “The point is simply because you are experienced doesn’t mean you are correct.” That’s absolutely true. It’s not about whether they are “correct” or not – though I will grant you that some guys act like it is. (It isn’t). I’ve had the same experience here re: the subject of my own life and marriage, and its pretty frustrating, I grant you that. Here’s the… Read more »
@palma,
The deal is that it’s [marriage] being peddled like a drug to young men as an ideal and it isn’t.
I’d peddle it as an ideal. Aside from my waxing philosophic above the stark reality is: kids. Most people reproduce – consciously or not – and reproducing without marriage is bad for kids, and bad for the Future. Full stop.
Only caveat is it isn’t the only ideal. There’s other paths to take, for sure, but if kids are in the mix, marriage is the way to go.
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLAfHYhDz2g&w=854&h=480%5D
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLAfHYhDz2g&w=854&h=480%5D
???? what happened????
And…wrt to not arguing with others perceptions about me, I do try to take my own advice, but don’t always succeed. Lol!
No kids.
In a sitch like mine, there are other paths that are open, and wouldn’t have any particular reason to recommend mine.
“The deal is that it’s being peddled like a drug to young men as an ideal and it isn’t. There’s one in his mid teens 10 feet away from me right now who things it’s a good idea and can’t explain why.” You mean there is this thing called the Feminine Imperative? And it has a Hivemind and pumps out Social Conventions for thought control? WTF? Somebody should do something about that. @Mitch “I’d peddle it as an ideal. There ya go you ego-invested-in-the-game guy. There you go. Yer funny. And as far as having a purpose and a mission… Read more »
@Palmasailor
“Firstly most of us here are trying, and I personally never flame young lads. I reckon you’ve got it tough enough.”
Hank’s actually not that young. And time’s a-wastin’.
“Lastly – and this relates to business and women – older men often HATE to see younger men surpass them. Especially if the older man has never had the balls to take the risks, or the intelligence to understand the risks or opportunities the younger man has taken to succeed.”
LOL. Who’s passing who? Who never had the balls? Who never took the risks? Intelligence to understand? What risks or opportunities has Hank actually taken? He went to the mall a couple times? He argued with Blaximus?
Jeez, I hope he succeeds, but at this rate?
Mitch, “My marriage will generate something – I can’t say what at this point, though my wife (46) is oddly confident it will generate children. I doubt it, but if it does, it does. Though it’s been a pain in the ass having her dependent on me to that extent, it’s good she failed the first time because she is a much better driver now, so I’ll rest easier.” Caution ahead buddy, I wouldn’t get caught up to much in the current marriage debate, looks you might be neglecting your own ship/relationship man. If the girl is telling you she… Read more »
A guy that’s never been married cannot point anything out to me. Call it ” old guy ” or whatever floats your boat.
HaHa…
con·jec·ture /kənˈjekCHər/ noun noun: conjecture; plural noun: conjectures 1. an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information. “conjectures about the newcomer were many and varied” synonyms: speculation, guesswork, surmise, fancy, presumption, assumption, theory, postulation, supposition; More inference, (an) extrapolation; an estimate; informala guesstimate, a shot in the dark, a ballpark figure “the information is merely conjecture” antonyms: fact •an unproven mathematical or scientific theorem. “the Goldbach conjecture” •(in textual criticism) the suggestion or reconstruction of a reading of a text not present in the original source. verb verb: conjecture; 3rd person present: conjectures; past tense: conjectured; past… Read more »
@Fox —
We’ve discussed Mitch’s situation when he has popped up before, just so you are aware. I can’t remember exactly the threads that the discussion came up in, however.
@Hank, maybe it’s because I’m sick of your spergy bullshit here. You’ve posted the same horse shit comment for a year and a half since then. Far as I’m concerned you’re only one degree better than a common spammer. If you’re sucker enough to carry the water for RSD you may as well be a shill. I mean, what’s it gonna take for you to see RSD is a low limit cult of positive thinking that has to defame me? Apparently 5 times isn’t enough. So what is it? 10, 15?
I’m done with both of you fucking idiots.
See this fucking mess? This shit right here is why we can’t have nice things.
Lol, ” old guys ” amirite????
As someone who has read these threads for years and not having a dog in the fight , both sides are actually mostly correct, it’s just a matter of perspective and mostly personalities crashing/not compatible. We all have our blind sides and yes it’s true the OMGs for the most part don’t like to have theirs exposed, and that’s where the rub is from the PUA side of the house. The obvious PUA blindside is continually exposed so that actually needs no rehashing and it rubs those guys raw. A rundown of these OMGs stat sheets/blindsides or how they come… Read more »
@Blax
It ain’t old guys or young guys or anybody in particular. It’s that this is a subject where the vitriol and spite from all sides turns it in to a shit show every time.
” Lastly – and this relates to business and women – older men often HATE to see younger men surpass them. Especially if the older man has never had the balls to take the risks, or the intelligence to understand the((((( risks ))))) or opportunities the younger man has taken to succeed.”
Wut???
Palma, have you been following what’s been said???
Sun
You don’t know how glad I am that you’re back, so I am not looking to create a shit show. You just got here, and I’d love it if you stayed.
I mean, I can read a dozen posts about ” OMG’s ” or ” Old Guys “, as long as when the refer to me. they’re accurate.
Sjf “I’d peddle it as an ideal. There ya go you ego-invested-in-the-game guy. There you go. Yer funny. And as far as having a purpose and a mission and marriage fills that role. Your purpose and mission should organically be derived from you, not outside influences. Lets chew on that one a bit, shall we? its a nice juicy piece of meat 😉 To start off, why would you assume that adopting a particular world view is primarily the result of pressure from outside influences- especially when that someone is a mature grown man with significant life experience? I mean… Read more »
FoxGuy Close. Lol. Not a Democrat. I think both parties are full of different kinds of shit. I only pushback re: Obama because it’s apparent that no matter what he did, there’s a contingent that hated his being elected and tried to turn him into evil incarnate constantly. I was never a huge Obama supporter, because he set records in raising money from Wall Streeters, which told me everything I needed to know about him. Re: Racism – lol. My parents went to a segregated school in the south during Jim Crow, and I fully remember when JC was in… Read more »
“SJF may be patting you in the back for taking his side” Not hardly. I don’t actually have a side in the you should get married or not ‘alleged debate’. Really. I think most guys are incapable of sustaining a marriage and shouldn’t even consider it. (You know, too lazy, short-sighted or self-serving–without self knowing). The old Maxwell Smart don’t-try-this-at-home-trick. And it’s like some can’t even remember this comment: https://therationalmale.com/2018/02/02/the-marriage-game/comment-page-3/#comment-238349 Because you keep saying shit about advocating…… Mitch made a decision. A choice. He made a plan. Up until now in his life he was drifting. He now has a… Read more »
@palmasailor There’s one in his mid teens 10 feet away from me right now who things it’s a good idea and can’t explain why. Blax’s sanity checklist is something I wish I had been challenged with in my teens and 20s (it being reiterated, reenacted and paraphrased to finally get through the thick skull): https://therationalmale.com/2018/02/02/the-marriage-game/comment-page-4/#comment-238603 You see, we often fall into the trap of wanting (or believing in) something without knowing exactly what and why. Because feelz. This is why Blue Pill ideals work so well: something feels “right” (or “wrong”) and yet it’s not specific enough. You’re exposed to… Read more »
Mitch February 11, 2018 at 2:20 pm I missed that earlier. Good advice to hank. This specifically is where I judge you for outside influences: “At that period of my life, I seriously contemplated becoming a Jesuit priest – several discernment retreats with Jesuits, months of spiritual direction, etc) I’m a wanderer by nature, but I eventually came to the realization that I needed to make a serious life commitment – of some sort – if I was to continue to grow. If I was, to use JP’s vernacular, to Grow Up. ( I think this is more where JP… Read more »
@Sun Wukong
“You don’t know how glad I am that you’re back, so I am not looking to create a shit show. You just got here, and I’d love it if you stayed.”
Shit, me too. I love you like a non related brother. (my actual brothers bore me to tears)
Keep going strong. Get what’s yours. You are extremely erudite and I love hearing from you. I love you, man.
SJF – Big believer in social class separation and that somehow insulating him, aka Upper Middle class , believes this class is superior morally/spiritually/financially(true obviously) and that denotes some type insulating status from the rest of the masses. This ties in nicely with Charles Murray’s Coming Apart work. Consistently refers to UMC life in his posts in order to confer upon himself some type of status? Inference(educated guesses): Race: White Political Party: Republican Personality Type: Introverted Work Ethic: Very High Alpha Rating: 5 Social Class: UMC(self stated), Most likely grew up in UMC household Derives His Meaning from: Wife/Family/Social Class… Read more »
@Hank
…..kicking a dead horse won’t bring it back to life .
Gotta move on buddy…. The inability to move on is the reason you’re stuck where you are.
also most the omgs when they say alpha up /man up or w/e is just Do what you have to do No one cares about why you can’t do it … just that you do it.
@rollo If you’re sucker enough to carry the water for RSD you may as well be a shill. I mean, what’s it gonna take for you to see RSD is a low limit cult of positive thinking that has to defame me? I literally just posted how I have been agreeing with you about RSD for years. I posted them just a few hours ago. Dec 2016: I can’t speak for the other guys, but I agree, and have always agreed with you, that I don’t like the direction RSD is headed in. But that doesn’t change the fact that… Read more »
@mersonia
Gotta move on buddy…. The inability to move on is the reason you’re stuck where you are.
Health is the main issue. Have to get some improvement before I can go out and do much. Long slog till I can get more info and find a medicine that actually works. Situation has worsened, not improved.
@Hank
If you have a headache and you decide not to go to work…. you still have the headache….
So yeah your healths gonna suck do it anyways….no excuses
“lets demonize the honest scientists who simply want to understand the world and gather evidence to help people, or regular people who have the gall to mention that we can’t get good research on race and IQ because careers are ruined just for bringing it up”
hmmm
https://twitter.com/___ribbit/status/959328256825622528
… seething rage
lmao… again.
Mersonia
“No one cares about why you can’t do it … just that you do it.”
My favorite lyric line ever: “…Twenty years for nothing, well, that’s nothing new
Besides, no one’s interested in something you didn’t do…”
Because no DHV for you is a thing.
https://youtu.be/agr_wTBvhJs
@hank
It’s not cult-like. It’s tribe like. And arguments are judged on their merit. Seek your level. It’s not pretty when you don’t rank well. Post up some good thoughts. Be fun and add value when out with women. Please.
@hank RSD is a for profit enterprise, it doesn’t discount all their “work” but it’s still a for profit enterprise that must be viewed through that lens, they are not at the same level of Rollo’s work which is not a for profit venture per se, that’s a big difference man. Simply focusing on PUA is not enough as has been pointed out to you to you over and over to you. I’ve seen RSD field footage and yes you can get results, but it’s more akin to the “Get Rich Quick” side of the red pill, don’t expect much… Read more »
You want me to show you what a real ‘cult’ looks like? There are plenty of RSD pep rally videos that you wouldn’t be able to distinguish from Tony Robbins videos I can link you. And yeah, I do get pissed off at RSD. I think I’ve got more than enough reason to be now. It is abundantly clear that I’m a threat to their operation because I actually help men deal with the problems guys like Julien actively create for them. So, yeah, I won’t host their horse shit cult recruitment videos on my blog – do you really… Read more »
Do we discount the old shit that RSD used to do that had some merit with respect to Game?
Yes, we do. Because no matter how educational that old stuff was it is simply a loss leader for the bullshit they represent today.
Five times Hank. Five fucking times. And I will put money on it that it’s not the last time. Why do you think that is? Why do they repeatedly come back to the same sorry ass rationalizations they need to address the truth I open men’s eyes to? Because I’m a threat to their business plan.
SJF: Sure you knew you wanted to grow up, but that reveal reveals outside influences on a unformed soul whose brain was not clear. Sure I can see joining the Jesuit order as a 24 year old because it was choice to serve, no questions asked. But as an older guy, that’s just defaulting to a wanna-be cause to celebrate finally having a cause, purpose and mission at that which should be your peak value as an individual male. Of course I’m being judgmental. I want to avoid making this about me, because the issues brought up in your original… Read more »
Oh boy… Fey Numales agonizing over an anonymous message board becoming a “shit show”… Christ… Ideas need testing. There is no lack of it in meat space. Sack up and contribute or not… But please no whinging. GGR quote. The wisdom of the ages in 6 minutes: “Blake: … You think this is abuse? You think this is abuse, you cocksucker? You can’t take this — how can you take the abuse you get on a sit?! You don’t like it — leave. I can go out there tonight with the materials you got, make myself fifteen thousand dollars! Tonight!… Read more »
@Rollo
“I actually help men deal with the problems guys like Julien actively create for them.”
Yesterday a commentator over at CH blamed you for contributing to the MGTOW movement…are you gonna start banning links to Heartiste from now on, too? lol
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2018/02/09/the-cat-lady-culmination/#comment-962821
Hey Mitch. You rambled on a bit there. About what and where, I couldn’t make sense of it. It’s not a crime to make it about you. I specifically made it about you. I think you came into your own lately and I respect your choices. I specifically think you didn’t have a clue where you were back then. Apparently there was a big debate about it last year, with young guys not receiving an answer much beyond “because you want to.” That’s not an answer. Why should anybody want to do anything? Because feelings? No, we make choices based… Read more »
IAS
February 11, 2018 at 12:24 pm
Re: learning for people over 30.
It is biological.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2017/05/30/marijuana-may-be-a-weapon-against-brain-aging-suggests-new-study/#7c7a056351ca