Mitch’s Red Pill

With apologies to my regular readers and commentariat, I’m mid-stream through crafting my next essay and what do I see in the comment feed from last week’s post? Our (our soon to be formerly) Purple Pill friend Mitch returning to give us all an update on what was supposed to be his inevitable married bliss. Rather than allow Mitch’s saga get buried under pages of comments I thought I’d post the continuation of his in-progress unplugging here for others to benefit from. Be sure you read the first case study before you dig into his update below:

Hello Gentlemen,

It’s good to be back here reading your insightful, intelligent, funny, actionable posts. I’ve been away for awhile. Glad to see Rollo’s blog and books doing so well. Congratulations sir, and I sincerely thank you from the bottom of my purple-but-slowly-turning-red heart for your work. I am now eating my previous words about this being ideological and cult-like. lol. Some might remember that I was the eponymous subject of one of Rollo’s posts on purple pill, and the ensuing discussion about whether I was setting myself up for slaughter in marrying a Ukrainian I’d met online. I (basically) said I’m a big boy now at 50, and know what I’m doing with women, and would let ya’ll know how it worked out. Not that anyone gives a rat’s ass after all my bullshit, but whatever, here I am.

Funny thing is that I’d been thinking about posting this update a few days ago, after reconnecting with TRM blog, and I would have said something along the lines of: she has been here almost 9 months, we been married for 5, going reasonably well, regular and enjoyable sex, she cooks everything from scratch and takes good care of me and the house; she’s diligently studying english, meeting people, etc, seems mostly happy; without fail she packs my lunch every night – once she woke up at about 1 am and remembered she had not made my lunch for work next day, and even though I told her not to worry about it, she got up, and went downstairs and *cooked* me lunch. Her responsibility, she said. She also genuinely likes me, and is very loving and affectionate and passionate in bed. We’ve had some conflict, and I’ve mostly held my ground, but made some fairly key concessions in the spirit of playing fair (since she has, in actuality at this point, zero leverage in this relationship), and accommodating her wants and needs.

And hypergamy doesn’t give a fuck.

Lo and behold, yesterday the computer is open and I see a ‘Hi’ come across the screen from Skype from a male. Open the Skype window and she’s been chatting with this dude from New Hampshire or some shit, not long, but the kind of bare bones swapping of details – the guy’s on hunt for a wife, and she’s asking about the size of his town, and what’s the weather like, how many kids, etc. As the blood drains from my face, the veil parts, I see it for what it is, and I realize without a shadow of a doubt, this shit is real. Complete with the subsequent hamstering and total lack of accountability following.

I don’t believe she was actually interacting with this guy with any conscious intent to find someone else, but clearly she thinks about it, and is willing to “play” with the idea, even at a time when she has sooo much to lose. I could withdraw my petition to get her a green card in two seconds, and she’s done. I think she was/is bored and enjoys the attention and validation, and sense of (diminishing) power that she has over men.

So now I need to figure out what to do. i am beyond grateful for Rollo’s work, this blog, and forum, and having internalized RP to the limited extent that I have, and know I need to do A LOT more. It’s pretty humbling to be 50 and need to be totally schooled in something so basic. It’s fricking amazing that I have managed to hide myself from this knowledge for so long.

Thank you.

[…]

I meant to also say that I have learned a ton from you guys, and really appreciate the time and energy that many of you spent last fall trying to get me to get my head out of my ass. What can I say, I need to learn the hard way. Truth is, though, you guys were so vehement about it, that it definitely helped me to keep myself in reserve and react a bit more strategically to her.

Just to preface here, my intent isn’t to be cruel or pop of with ‘I todja so’, but I think it’s very important for guys in the various stages of unplugging to see Mitch’s situation as a clinical example. I’m not trying to flame you or pillory you Mitch, but your situation does serve as a good example.

As I mentioned in the first post about Mitch, there is a visceral desire on the part of Purple Pill men to force fit the parts of Red Pill awareness into Blue Pill idealisms and personal convictions because they simple cannot face the abyss of what a full Red Pill awareness presents to the belief set that the Blue Pill has conditioned them for. It is truly awful to be confronted with unflattering truths about the nature of women as well as a man’s coming to realize he’s got to drop all of his previous idealism and create a new, positive, paradigm for himself based on Red Pill awareness. For a lot of men inured by the Blue Pill it’s just too horrible to let go of those hopes based in a false awareness of their experience.

Thus, we get tropes like “well, the Red Pill is true, but it’s okay to have ONEitis for a girl because my new awareness insulates me from the worst effects of it.” Mitch even began his first entreaty by claiming this woman was “the ONE.”

I’d like to encourage men who still want a good wife to look East. As in, Russia, Ukraine and other former USSR counties. I cannot begin to tell you how encouraged and revitalized I am by this woman I met – and by most of the women I met and interacted with before I found “the One.

Shades of Purple

I’m beginning to see that there are two varieties of Purple Pill men; the first is the guy whose revenue and wellbeing depends on his only accepting what the Red Pill presents to him in half-measure. These are the Man-Up, do the right thing moralists who only ever marginally warn against the nature of women while believing that the self-improvement imperative that the Red Pill represents to men will more than compensate for the very real dangers of a man not fully killing his inner Beta. These are usually the guys who at one time were solidly Red Pill and used that awareness to their personal benefit with women (and life), but at some stage their life’s circumstance demanded that they “change their ways” and shift back to believing that Blue Pill ideals can be had with Red Pill means. These are the men who follow The Script.

The second type of Purple Pill man is the one who never fully unplugged. I believe this was where Mitch was when I outlined his situation in the first essay. There is a certain class of men who simply cannot ignore the truths that the Red Pill presents to them, and they eagerly endorse the tenets and the understanding of women’s visceral natures. Hypergamy doesn’t care, they get the dynamics of Alpha Fucks/Beta Bucks, they even believe they’ve come to terms with their own (often Beta) nature and what it is they believe is necessary to effect a change in their lives; yet there are aspects of that Red Pill awareness that they desperately want to reconcile with their long-held Blue Pill idealistic hopes. So, as a result, they attempt to discard or ignore whatever aspect of the Red Pill that isn’t conducive to making those old Blue Pill dreams come true.

For as long as I’ve been writing in the Manosphere I’ve always made a point of telling men never to use my marriage (or other Red Pill married men’s marriages) as some kind of template or goal to be had with Red Pill awareness. I realize that my own Red Pill marriage seems like some ideal to strive for, but what I think most unmarried single men need to consider is that, for the vast majority of men who’ve been able to unplug, remake themselves and employ an internalized understanding of Red Pill awareness within their marriages and in their families, these men do so in spite of themselves.

Very few men I know of, whom I’d say are Red Pill aware husbands and fathers, did not set out to be so. I have no doubt that in the future I’ll encounter men who were formerly Blue Pill and Beta who changed themselves, unplugged, became Red Pill aware, internalized it and used it to enter into a marriage wherein his Frame was always the primary and his wife intrinsically recognized it and was attracted to him because of it. I do hope this is eventually the case for some men, but as it stands now, the far more common occurrence is the Blue Pill, Beta husband who was “awakened while married” and turned his marriage back from the brink – if indeed that is the case at all. Even more commonly it is divorced men put through the ringer who unplugged post-divorce.

As I mentioned in the first case study about Mitch is his story is engaging because it so faithfully follows the progression of rationales Purple Pill men will use in order to hold fast to their old, comfortable mindset – in this case it’s the Blue Pill dream of an idyllic marriage had through Red Pill means.

One danger I think should be apparent to Red Pill men having to deal with a Purple Pill guy who’s hostile and resistant to what they’re trying to tell him is the potential disaster a Purple Pill man is setting himself up for in his inability to really stare at the abyss, work through the anger and hopelessness, and then recreate himself. This, I feel, is where that resistance stems from. It’s not so much an inability to acknowledge the truth of what real Red Pill intersexual dynamics is showing him, but rather how he will internalize, process and use that to create a better life for himself. So you get anger, not at the message as much as the messenger, when you tell him his sincere hopes are based on a Blue Pill interpretation of what a ‘good marriage’ is:

Lol…you guys can go fuck yourselves. I appreciate where ya’ll are coming from, though. Trying to save me from myself. And i appreciate how naive my post must sound to a bunch of hard core red pillers like yourselves. However, I am not nearly as inexperienced with women and LTR’s as ya’ll assume. I have learned a lot from red pill in general and this site in particular – it’s very insightful and helpful, and I’ve adjusted my attitude and posture toward women because of it. At the same time, though, it strikes me that many of you are taking on red pill ideas as a kind of ideology, and that’s its own kind of danger. The absolute certainty that ya’ll think you know all you need to know about me and my woman and my relationship from that very brief post is what I mean. As if red-pill theory, or whatever it is, completely and concisely explains the total dynamic between a man and woman. Red pill explains a lot of things really well, but certainly not the totality of the mystery that is between a man a woman in a marriage.

And yet, it does and it did.

If you don’t understand what I’m talking about, then I feel sorry for you. Red pill helps me tremendously in seeing more clearly what is going on. I totally get that I am a beta provider for her, that a large part of my appeal is what I can provide, and I get that she is turned on by alpha traits. Both of these things can coexist in the same person. Understanding this and what’s behind it makes me feel less anxious and insecure about that, because I’m more clear about what to do.

Also, being a beta provider does not make me a bitch. Providing for my woman and family is a large part of what makes me a man, and I derive great satisfaction and pride in doing so.
Also, I am not in any way “settling” for a 44 yo woman. Younger women were/are available to me, but that is not what i choose.

There’s a lot more to life than fucks and bucks, but if that’s all it is for you, then this is the type of woman you will attract. In a relationship, what you get is what you are. If I can’t find a way to live with an open heart, then I don’t know what the fucking point is. But, to each his own.

So, here we are. And again, it’s hard for this not to come off as a big ‘I toldja so’, but I think it’s even more important for Red Pill men who have it in them to want to help a Blue Pill guy unplug, or hell, just to even recognize the reasons why he’s in the personal circumstances he is, to remember that the Purple Pill guy is only lashing out because he fears the totality of the truth that Red Pill awareness brings into his life. As I always say, unplugging guys from the Matrix is dirty work, but I am genuinely glad to have Mitch back on track and hopefully he’s learned something from the experience. I think other Red Pill men should adopt the same spirit of welcoming a Blue/Purple Pill prodigal son back into the fold.

So that’s my take, but please feel free to comment on Mitch’s situation in the comments thread.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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kfg
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“Maybe one of the fancy pants with a high school diploma . . .”

Lets me out.

Blaximus
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@ Ton Mitch is wrestling with this. He’s starting to crack just a little, and he’s in justification mode. When I read this – ” The BPD is the only one that cheated on me, as far as I know, and when I found out, i basically kicked her to the curb without much fuss. I even gave her a $1,000 and a mattress and helped her move the mattress to her new lovers house. And then I was really fucking sad for two years because I really loved and missed her. ” , in my mind this was something… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@Mitchell I recently made a decision to not comment here much…I decided that I needed to spend more time on other things. When it comes to marriage, I know my shit better than anyone else here…probably even better than HABD…if anyone gainsays me, weigh their experience and ability against mine. I’ve been married over 30 years to a foreigner. Went through a five-year long depression and no sex during that time. Recovered and we are banging like newlyweds. I’m not bringing in any fucking paycheck. No income. I’m not on the BB side of things. I go out dancing without… Read more »

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@insanitybytes

I’ll repeat the last comment I made to you a few months ago.

When are you coming to So. New England, and will you be discreet?

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@Mitch It sounds like this is what you are after and don’t know how to ask or get. https://therationalmale.com/2016/11/11/deep-conversion/ “For women, this Deep Conversion can only result from a man who so thoroughly satisfies her Hypergamous nature she’s willing to abandon her own sexual strategy. And, like the guy with ONEitis, she dedicates herself to the one guy she was able to (she thinks) lock down who was a better-than-deserved Hypergamous prospect. Women get very upset when this dedication is questioned (not unlike the ONEitis guy) because they’ve generally abandoned furthering their sexual strategy by investing their egos into a… Read more »

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“I recently made a decision to not comment here much…I decided that I needed to spend more time on other things.”

Thought you were busy bailing water.

stuffinbox
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“Suddenly things fall into place.” How much of her reaction to you putting your foot down was desperation? how much of it was hypergamy? You can deny that drawing the line and showing your domination made her like you and respect you, generally just a big turn on for her, But what happened next? The big question is can a man be more of an alpha than the one that made a widow out of her in the first place? and again does he want to be that man? One would assume the benefits are good,but at what cost to… Read more »

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“but it is completely false that all women *will* react in the same way to the same given circumstances. That’s patently absurd. ”

And yet St Msytery codified this into a Method… And Rollo’s written three books on exactly this dynamic.

Mitch – have you read any of Rollo’s books?

I was the one who suspected and elaborate troll and you are proving me right.

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Asd

“Blax thinks that vetting is the key, but he’s full of shit. (Sorry Blax.) Vetting helps, but it’s not the key thing. The key thing is to be able to assess the emotional state of the woman and to manage it. ”

Vetting is where the eternal question is answered ” Is the juice worth the squeeze?”

Is it?

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“Good thing there are other more patient commenters. One thing about RP awareness is that Once You Are Aware, You Can’t Go Back To Sleep.” Yeah, I raise my hand. Cause you just said AWALT=By Degree. What about Red Pill Aware by Degree? I’m no stranger to being an inscrutable mastermind. But shit, I had to really work at it to be more and more Red Pill Aware. I’m lucky cause I’m skilled. I never quite was Blue Pill, cause always skeptical. I worked hard at becoming more and more aware. And it fucking worked like a charm. And lest… Read more »

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“Liz is the poster child for the 2nd case”

Liz is an alpha widow who’s alpha has low T. She is in denial.

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@Sentient

Vetting is where the eternal question is answered ” Is the juice worth the squeeze?”
Is it?

Depends on your game, doesn’t it? The male burden of performance.

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“but it is completely false that all women *will* react in the same way to the same given circumstances. That’s patently absurd. ” And yet St Msytery codified this into a Method… And Rollo’s written three books on exactly this dynamic. Mitch – have you read any of Rollo’s books? Yes. The Game script certainly works. Red Pill truth #2: When it comes to relationship wiring, all women have the same biological wiring. AWALT. AF/BB. Hypergamy. This can be somewhat affected by paternal training when they are young or by spousal training after marriage (Liz is the poster child for… Read more »

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culum: (like the very act of going to Ukraine to find a bride or meet women) automatically puts you into deep Provider territory – and your starting position is that you have a hole you need to dig yourself out of, to provoke genuine desire etc. V. good point. Keith Mitch it don’t add up ? Why did she leave the computer on? Why did she leave it open to Skype ? Married weman don’t get caught unless they want to get caught cheating ? Why did little miss unicorn leave a bread crum trail for you to chase ?… Read more »

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@SJF:

“but it is completely false that all women *will* react in the same way to the same given circumstances. That’s patently absurd. ”

And yet St Msytery codified this into a Method… And Rollo’s written three books on exactly this dynamic.

Mitch – have you read any of Rollo’s books?

Yes. The Game script certainly works.

This is what I’m talking about. That sentence completely out of context, has even SJF agreeing and adding on. And I’m a troll. No, I’m being trolled. See above post to Sentient.

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I marvel at women’s instinct. While men seek rationale, reasoning, trial and error… Women simply act instictually, to a fault. Especially modern women with all the backchatter of facebook, tinder, instagram, etc.. they still mamge to act on instinct. As frustrating as it is for men, they simply follow their impulse. It may lead them into some fucked up situations, but it is their instincts at play. It is not our posture to find fault. It’s all faulty in the grand scheme. But acting instinctually for men takes constant awareness and practice to quiet the justifications and reason. In the… Read more »

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@Sentient: Because you guys are real as fuck, and totally honest. I give you the benefit of the doubt that you just did not read me carefully, – I’ve done it too reading quickly and think I understand what’s being said, but don’t actually – and accidently conflated the ideas of how women respond to game with the idea that not all women are going to go ape shit on you and fuck up your life when you break up with them when handled correctly. Two entirely different things. In the first proposition, AWALT. In the second, no they most… Read more »

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Man, I spent 34 (actually 28 when you exclude the first six years of being a well cared for boy) years of my life having someone lecture to me in my profession. At the same time I spent a lot of time learning and being an autodidact outside of my professional life. I’m a firm believer in Action outside of whatever roles life presents to you. At some point, round about age 29, I resented the lecturing and decided I could decide a thing or two for myself. Which brings me to a field report relevant to the OP. I… Read more »

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@blax Kick her to the curb and give her a grand? And help her move a mattress into her new lover’s house? I’m at a complete loss, but we manage to do some dumb shit from time to time. Thing is, don’t use it as some kind of positive(?) example. Ok, I really am this fucking dumb. Would you mind spelling this one out for me? As noted to Palma, wtf is wrong with being decent about kicking out somebody *with a diagnosed mental illness of BPD!! for fucksake, and thereby avoiding the shitstorm consequences that really *could* be severe?… Read more »

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And I will try and stop resisting and just shut up and read and learn. Thanks.

SJF, you’ve got my number (as I think you realize, so thank you for everything)

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The Skype incident is typical. Mitch blew it out of proportion. It’s a shit test. To be ignored, mocked, mused upon. Chicks do this. For attention from the Skyper’s, and from Mitch. Positive or negative. Nothing new or unusual. Once, I was late to meet my main girl. Half my age. Well, I’m usually late…for dread’s sake. This time 2 hours. When I arrived, She was at the rendezvous cuddled with some other unknown mofo. A very small town. Pop. under 500. He stood up, introduced himself and I went for a beer and rolled a fattie. Ignored the sultry… Read more »

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Long before the internet, Mark Twain had some advice with i-bytes in mind: “Never argue with a fool. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

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@ Mitch The point I was making is that there is being nice and compassionate, but the amount of compassion is proportional. You can be nice while keeping your wallet holstered. When people show you what they think of you via action, believe them. It’s not about burning down anybody’s life as much as it’s about extricating yourself. Never pay crazy. This was a girlfriend, and a poor example at that. If you willfully, with malice of forethought, break my trust, then all of my obligations to you end, even kindness. To what end? I mean, I understand being a… Read more »

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“Ok, I really am this fucking dumb. Would you mind spelling this one out for me?” “when I found out, i basically kicked her to the curb without much fuss” This part is fine. Cheat once you’re done. No angry butthurt reaction. Get out. we’re done. No discussion about it. Hold a strong frame. “I even gave her a $1,000 and a mattress and helped her move the mattress to her new lovers house” Giving her a ridiculous sum of money to some crazy slut for fucking this guy behind your back (it happened more than once) and providing them… Read more »

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@Blax, Thanks, I understand what you’re saying, and agree completely. To my mind due to a number of circumstances not provided in the example, giving her a $1,000 was entirely proportional. On the other hand, $1,000 to exit a 6-year relationship with a BPD without drama is a freakin bargain. There’s a cost/benefit analysis going on there that is definitely in my interest. Whatever she thinks of me is not important at that point. Anyway, doesn’t matter. I realize I need to study Rollo’s work and Game, try things out, learn. Me trying to argue the finer points of something… Read more »

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“I realize I need to study Rollo’s work and Game, try things out, learn. Me trying to argue the finer points of something I don’t deeply understand is probably not going to get me too far.” Heheh. Some times you find a right track. Don’t be torn between your half truth and victimization, fighting back with counter attacks. Be steadfast with your realizations. Don’t compromise your realizations. But don’t not realize what we all know what is going on here.: https://youtu.be/shfIU9C3KZ4 Oh the mud splattered victims Have to pay out all along the ancient highway Torn between half truth and… Read more »

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@adsgamer Great story- that’s quite a turnaround. Maybe there’s hope for me yet. The dog training analogy is really helpful. I used to have a German Shepherd and trained him as a wilderness search and rescue dog, and mostly it involved training myself. It’s never the dogs fault, it’s yours because you either didn’t communicate in a way he can understand, or you’re not providing the proper motivation and rewards, or you haven’t sufficiently established yourself as he who must be obeyed. And cruelty doesn’t work very well. Hmmm. Stone cold is not quite what I did today. I was… Read more »

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Don’t know why ‘Mitchell’ was inserted. Lol. Not trying to change my name here.

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@ Hastalavista

Okay, i’ll call myself rp guy with good observational skills. You say what holds me back? I think that me having naturally low sex drive pretty much seals the deal. I honestly used to believe that being helpful and listening is the way to melt girls hearts but i was wrong. I guess i was trying to negotiate a desire through my helpful nature which eventually bite into my rear. Its sad to see when friends around me have sexual experience but remain blue pilled.

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@Mitch I’m a little unclear as to what you are trying to achieve now, what your desirable end state is. I get the impression that what you plan to do is to continue sulking for a few days, to ‘teach her a lesson’, and from there things will go back to ‘normal’. I don’t know your Olya/Tanya/Natalya, but I have an idea what is running through her mind right now. It goes something like this – I am in a business arrangement with this American man. He is OK, quite nice to me, until the last few days when he… Read more »

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@Mitch You are making good progress, but of course still have work to do. If you are stone cold it’s because you think of your woman as another man who is hustling you and you want to get even. Red Pill truth: It’s Ok if girls are deceptive because that’s biology. It’s not Ok for you to get butthurt because a girl is deceptive. It’s up to you to bring good game so that a girl doesn’t feel like she needs to deceive you. Here’s how you need to view your girl: She’s your beloved but bratty kid sister who… Read more »

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@Mike: Ok got it. Now let´s focus on the advantage of your situation for a moment: The price the BP guys are paying is actually huge, it comes from this believe system: (1) I have to find TheOne (TM), (2) who loves me for who I am (TM), (3) then we will live happy together forever, (4) with tons of exiting sex until we die. And if this doesn´t happen in my life, I probably made a mistake, so I just have to try harder. So as a RP guy, you should understand that this is a setup for failure.… Read more »

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ASD

Vetting is where the eternal question is answered ” Is the juice worth the squeeze?”
Is it?

Depends on your game, doesn’t it? The male burden of performance.

comment image

No.

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Dirka Dirka I don’t know your Olya/Tanya/Natalya, but I have an idea what is running through her mind right now. It goes something like this – I am in a business arrangement with this American man. He is OK, quite nice to me, until the last few days when he is being a pig. I am still waiting for my green card, I need to improve my English, I need a driving licence, a little money of my own. I will stay with this man for maybe a year while I sort these things out. After that our transaction is… Read more »

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While it is a pig, the *additional* reality of lipstick changes the equation. As to Lena Dunham (pictured above by fan Sentient) I sadly see relationship troubles ahead. Her SMV is literally heading to the toilet. Meanwhile boyfriend of five years Frank Antonoff’s SMV continues to climb, as he has become a cool nerd (shown eating a banana during the VMAs, featured on Charlixxx recent boys video), playing guitar in a rock band and is pop’s hottest producer (Taylor Swift, Lorde). Frank is about to meet fun. Trolls, please I plead with you, we need a new one! Our current… Read more »

anon
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“Her SMV is literally heading to the toilet”
“Heading to the toilet” was years ago.
She has been an actual floating turd for at least five years now.

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@Mitch You came to a red pill site for advice, which means you are open to being told the truth about your situation. Unfortunately, the truth is not pleasant. I am not sure how much of it you are ready to absorb, I suspect not much, but I agree with Rollo’s original purpose in putting it up here, its a useful case to discuss. It certainly helps me to formulate my thoughts. If we can help you too, then that’s a bonus. The first point I want to make is this – if your Olya/Tanya/Natalya stumbled onto this site, she… Read more »

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Discovering the girl you’re with is secretly meeting/chatting/hanging out with some other guy. Often it’s because she’s “helping” him. I’ve encountered this situation several times even though the girl I was banging was having the best sex of her life (she claimed) but the guy was generally a loser provider type. What do you do? If you’re a guy spinning plates like me…you walk. You call her out ( which I’ve done) and you look weak, jealousy, insecure. Mitch has not entangled himself with a woman who’s online shopping despite the outward appearance of 5 months (cough) of bliss. I… Read more »

pinelero
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being fat yet still not having any boobs is the worst

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Cult-I-Vader

The Skype incident is typical. Mitch blew it out of proportion. It’s a shit test.

Nope. In your case you naturally met your girl and developed actual attraction. Mitch never did. It was a business deal from the off – for her. She ain’t shit testing, she’s marketing.

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dirka – every word, perfect

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@ ASD Vetting properly is important, because failure to do so will always result in ” surprises “. Every time a man says that he had ” no idea “, it points to a shoddy vetting job and he’ll confidently blame the woman for being deceitful. That deceit is evident if you look for it’s display towards others and in various circumstances. There’s no doubt that without vetting, shit will go wrong. It’s a skill set that all men need to develop. Or else you’ll go out to buy a 4 wheel drive extended cab heavy duty pickup and come… Read more »

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Re: vetting. Perhaps in my youth I was too cautious about women / girls. Perhaps my standards were too high, perhaps I was buffering as Rollo would say but part of me nagging in the back of my brain pretty much always said, “Don’t stick your dick into something that you wouldn’t be prepared to have a baby with”. I broke that rule of mine a few times and thankfully it didn’t cost me. Right from the get go I just intuitively felt there was always the risk that no matter if I wrapped it or she was on the… Read more »

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j
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Good shit @dirka

Mitch
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Mitch
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@dirka Really good post. There’s a lot in there that recognize. But some I don’t. This for example: You are way out of your league with her, emotionally, intellectually, culturally… you are I don’t this is actually true at all, but I’m curious to know you think that. I am beginning to really recognize the sheer all-consuming depth of my beta-ness. And I know that you guys can all see that, because you’re helping me see it. I’ll talk more about my parents relationship later, but RP is starting to explain a lot of things I used to scratch my… Read more »

Mitch
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@ dirks
Curious to know why you think that

Sentient
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This is what I’m going to do. I’m going to see if I can turn it around. I been thoroughly warned, so thank you. Any Advice directed to that end is welcome. But don’t waste anymore time and energy trying to convince me to cut bait. This is why I said trolling… You refuse to see reality. There is nothing to “turn around”… the premise is false. You have nothing… At best you could “start here”… but even that program is seriously, nearly incontrovertibly compromised. I’m talking 99.999999% fucked. Have you read Rollo’s book The Rational Male? Come clean. Loading...

Sentient
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Sentient
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On the other hand, Rollo will have an easy Post #3 on this in a few months…

Sentient
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Actually – let us know the date she can get her green card Mitch and we can wager on the over under on when she decides to get “unhappy”… I put the line at 3 months and bet the under.

Sentient
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Aaaaaand… for the sake of clarity and predictive value. I bet the time leading up to that Green Card date is going to be all sunshine and lollipops and cray sex… such that you will be back here – BEFORE GC DAY Zero – crowing about how we all were wrong…

theasdgamer
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@Blax Vetting will let you discover if a woman has a police record, whether she is or has been married, what her diagnosed medical and psychological issues are (assuming that she releases her reports to you), where she has lived, where she went to school, for whom she has worked, and those kinds of things. Vetting won’t let you discover a woman’s sexual/relationship wiring…you just have to know that or read about it in Rollo’s books. AWALT Vetting won’t let you discover whether a woman is BPD. Those broads hide it well. Vetting won’t help you discover that you have… Read more »

j
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j
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Mitch hasn’t hit rock bottom yet. Only then will he truly be open to change. Some men need to learn the hard way.

ST
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ST
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Mitch, manage the situation and don’t overreact. You went in with eyes wide and your purple slowly turns red, but stay calm and game. She married YOU, and you admit it she has been wonderful. So she is shit testing you, that is what it is. That is all it is. So figure that piece out, its the next puzzle. You win the shit test by staying calm, staying strong, let the storms run their course, and Tomassi a little discussion of game would be useful. IB, you are just so angry. I don’t fully understand that. Women marry up,… Read more »

ST
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Mitch – DON’T CUT BAIT! You game this and your relationship is stronger than ever. She shit tests you, you pass the test, your relationship is stronger. rinse and repeat. Learn the game, you are in now. You are married.

It’s what she wants at the end of the day. You CAN DO IT, just learn the game part of red. It will be the next step. Tomassi has many many thoughts on the issue. He no way thinks you should cut bait. I know it.

Incubus_Rising
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“This is what I’m going to do. I’m going to see if I can turn it around. I been thoroughly warned, so thank you. Any Advice directed to that end is welcome. But don’t waste anymore time and energy trying to convince me to cut bait.”

….. sooo she convinced you of her fidelity by agreeing to anal? Well, I hope you enjoyed it …. and that the squeeze was worth the juice you will be forced to give her in future.

I look forward to Part 3 of this series.

Blaximus
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@ ASD True vetting will tell you everything there is to know about any woman. The ” trick “, for lack of a better term, is learning to read the signs. And vetting takes time, requiring a man to turn off his feelz and replace them with observation sans judgement. It will be what it reveals itself to be. Now you get to choose and decide how to proceed. Vetting does not replace red pill understanding at all. That’s never my point. It’s not about police records, lol. The signs are always present, yet sometimes microscopic. Your skill in vetting… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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“I don’t [think] this is actually true at all . . .”

That’s why you’ve gotten to play bad example in two articles – so far.

“I’m going to see if I can turn it around.”

Three articles is the charm?

Blaximus
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@ Agent P

That’s something I’ve always thought, any woman you’re having sex with could become the mother of your kid(s). Yet, we’ll still gamble a little. Just don’t develop a gambling addiction.

Pink Floyd, One Slip.

” a momentary lapse of reason, that binds a life to a life, the one regret we will never forget, there’ll be no sleeping here tonight “.

Or something like that. Great song for men.

Sentient
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Mitch – DON’T CUT BAIT! You game this and your relationship is stronger than ever. She shit tests you, you pass the test, your relationship is stronger. rinse and repeat. Learn the game, you are in now. You are married. ST – come with me into the future… Ukrainicorn: [Green Card in wallet] Mitch. I love you so much but I really miss Odessa. My family miss me. I need to be there. You don’t understand. Mitch: [standing firm and passing “shit test”] My life is here, your life is here now. Ukrainicorn: I’m sorry Mitch but if you really… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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Meta American men have grown up with Disney versions of White Knight stories that include twu wuv foh EVAH. That includes you, Mitch, it specifically includes you. Yeah, I know, at 50 you’re all over that stuff, except that you are not – using a term such as “The ONE” is a huge tell. It’s like walking up to a gaming table bragging about how much money you can afford to lose. Eastern Europeans, espeically Russians and Ukranians have a different culture that goes back just as long. Who is “Baba Yaga” and why does her house sit on a… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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Mitch I’m going to see if I can turn it around. I been thoroughly warned, so thank you. Any Advice directed to that end is welcome. But don’t waste anymore time and energy trying to convince me to cut bait. At first I wondered if you were the same man from last year. But now there’s no doubt. This know-it-all, “I don’t gotta learn much from you suckers” mindset is what got you back here. You were sure last year that your Ukranicorn was the real deal, the ONE. Then something happened that paniced you & here you are. Now… Read more »

rugby11
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kfg
“If you make your notes in a blank book where your thoughts can spread out and breath a bit, then when you are done you will find that where you started out with one book you now have two. One written by the original author and one written by yourself.”
On point
https://www.selfauthoring.com/
Mitch
Keep at it man each day push a little passed where you where before for you. It all comes down to you. We are just here to learn about thing’s are self’s as well.
http://www.rooshv.com/you-did-this-to-me
http://www.jack-donovan.com/axis/2017/02/we-are-not-brothers/

redlight
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redlight
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“Ukrainicorn”

that had me laughing out loud at work, stop it

newlyaloof
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newlyaloof
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@Mitch: “This is what I’m going to do. I’m going to see if I can turn it around. I been thoroughly warned, so thank you. Any Advice directed to that end is welcome. But don’t waste anymore time and energy trying to convince me to cut bait.” Dude, trust me on this. Before you see if you can turn it around, get yourself a mini voice recorder and place it under her car seat, somewhere in the house near a phone. You can set it to record only when it hears noise (neat little thing), so they work great. You’ll… Read more »

SJB
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Mitch: sleuth a bit harder: did she leave the bed to make lunch or use making lunch as an excuse to finish a tingle session via Skype/text?

A corollary to “be attractive/don’t be unattractive” is don’t be a fraud/don’t be defrauded.

kfg
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kfg
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Donovan is looking to start the world, but is still looking for a place to start from. At the moment he is facing the problem of neo-paganism in that it isn’t really his world. There is, therefore, an inherent artificiality about it.

It’ll be interesting to see where he ends up, although it is where his great grandchildren end up that really matters.

SJF
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@asd You might try asking Blaximus what he means by the word “vetting”, rather than making up something in your head and sperging out about it. Just saying. I don’t think True Vetting is a thing in LTR Game. Cause things change. I think Mitch has it easy because he’s still in the short run. But he still needs Game and more Red Pill Awareness. A lot of Rollo’s older circa 2012 essays in the category of Relationship Game can shed light on the Red Pill aspects of this. Including these two: https://therationalmale.com/2012/07/16/value-added/ https://therationalmale.com/2012/07/13/is-seduction-real/ And then the essay Relational Equity:… Read more »

Incubus_Rising
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@rugby11: Mate, just paste the link of his insta-slut page. All this scrolling to read comments is hurting my fingers.

walawala
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@ST >So she is shit testing you, that is what it is. That is all it is. So figure that piece out, its the next puzzle. No, a shit-test would mean she’s attracted to him and be overt. Secretly texting another dude is NOT shit-testing, it’s hypegamy and when that happens, the attraction is draining from the relationship. I wish there was a better way to “fix” this but there isn’t. It’s a lost cause since they’re already married: 1. He leaves…she claims mental abuse and stress and hardship: immigrant, jealous American husband…you know the drill. 2. He stays and… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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kfg
It’ll be interesting to see where he ends up, although it is where his great grandchildren end up that really matters.

Jack Donovan was pretty open about his homosexuality a few years back. Unless that’s changed, great grandchildren would be rather unlikely.

Mitch
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Sentient, Might as well get that spreadsheet out and start keeping score. @ST – thanks bro! Appreciate the support. I’m not cutting bait, not today anyway. I’m my own man, and if I end up being Exhibit A for what Not to do, then so be it. Maybe that will be of some use to others. I’m not doing this to prove anything to anyone- I’m doing it because it’s my life and I want it to be the best it can be. All the RP mastery in the world cannot possibly give anyone the knowledge and insight to dictate… Read more »

Sentient
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http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ujcz1dz4NFM/VYjrS0TSavI/AAAAAAAAJ5w/uIYIB4xMvrg/s1600/The%2Bburning%2Bmonk%252C%2B1963%2B%25283%2529.jpg

“I’m my own man, and if I end up being Exhibit A for what Not to do, then so be it. Maybe that will be of some use to others. “

Godspeed Mitch.

Sentient
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Mitch

and start keeping score. – What month and year for GC? I’ll plug it in. Not kidding – you should come out with it now for “keeping it real” in Post 3 and 4.

I’d also examine how much Catholic guilt, works and martyr complex are driving your behaviors.

Anonymous Reader
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Just for Mitch – an example of M’Lady on the golf course.
Maybe this should be in Field Reports. The back story is probably predictable.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/sex/golf-course-encounter-019453

Note the ages.

Mitch
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@sentient I don’t think you read people very well – at all. And I’m guessing that you have inherent strengths that are very different from mine. So, the choices you would need to make as you go through life with women are very different than those I would make. Theoretically, assuming I ever get to RP mastery, we would implement the exact same RP principles and techniques but differently. Because all people are individuals! In addition to being subject to the laws of RP. But no, I have not yet read Rollo’s book. It’s on order from Amazon. Probably should… Read more »

SJB
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Mitch: Martyrdom? How many martyrs did you learn from? If you really are called to be exempli causa I’d suggest a different hill on which to battle — how many monuments do you see: “M. was martyred while holding firm his belief in the good intentions of his spouse”?

Mitch
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Sentient
Lol! Don’t have a date for GC, immigration is slow these days. Should get conditional temporary in the next few months. Permanent GC awarded two years later after establishing the marriage is still. I will be holding that ace for quite some time, and that’s good it buys me time with easy dread. At the moment she’s terrified.

Sentient
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Mitch

“But no, I have not yet read Rollo’s book.”

Huh? How could I have known??? You’re right I am terrible at reading people.

So out with the GC date and we will see who read what when…

Sentient
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Mitch

OK then here we have it…

Should get conditional temporary in the next few months. Permanent GC awarded two years later after establishing the marriage is still.

All behaviors must be observed through this lens…

Blaximus
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@ SJF I don’t think I disagree with Rollo that much. I certainly agree that good relationships are built. But I’ve seen way too many men do shitty jobs of vetting over my lifetime to downplay it’s importance. many guys just don’t pay all that much attention. Even here it’s said by ASD that BPD chicks hide their crazy, I assume he means that men can’t tell. I disagree. Let me try a hypothetical based on a few experiences I’ve had over the years to see if it helps my point. Girlfriend is unhappy at her job. Scenario #1: she… Read more »

Sentient
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How do I know if I am eligible to File Form I751 Petition to Remove the Conditions of my Green Card? If you are still married, file Form I-751 jointly with your U.S. citizen or permanent resident spouse through whom you obtained your conditional permanent status. If you have dependent children on a K-2 visa who obtained their conditional permanent status when you did and they entered the United States within 90-days of your arrival, then you can include their names and A-numbers in Part 5 of your petition form. If the children obtained their conditional status 90 days after… Read more »

Mitch
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Martyrdom!?? Good grief.

I will say it again, I am not doing this for anyone else but myself. I am not. I am putting my experience out for others to read, *primarily* because it helps ME. Standing naked in front of other people that you trust – and for all my frustration with some, I do trust you guys even the naysayers are incredibly useful- allows me to see myself faster than anything I know of. I have done this in other contexts, and it’s extremely powerful tool for self knowledge and personal growth. That’s all.

Sentient
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subjected to extreme cruelty by your U.S. citizen or permanent resident spouse

A “controlling” husband who limits his wife’s dating might fit this bill…

dr zipper
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blax – I really like your specific examples of how to read a situation; they are direct and explicit and thus have the clarity some find most useful; not enough time for me to get caught up untangling riddles and stringing along some overly Socratic approach to making a point

sure, vetting isn’t the only thing, but it’s certainly going to determine the kind of foundation everything else will be built upon and for that, is paramount; if vetting isn’t mastered, a man will always be in damage control

keep ’em coming

Incubus_Rising
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“Permanent GC awarded two years later after establishing the marriage is still. I will be holding that ace for quite some time, and that’s good it buys me time with easy dread.” … you don’t have 2 years to play the dread game … you only have time until she has a strong grip on the next “martyr”. You will find out soon when she will ask you to drop her off at her new lovers’.

“At the moment she’s terrified.” …. and I bet you are too.

kfg
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@AR: “Jack Donovan was pretty open about his homosexuality a few years back. Unless that’s changed, great grandchildren would be rather unlikely.”

And I have mentioned it myself a few times, where it was relevant.

There are two levels to my comment:

1. There is no tight connection between (to use his term) androphilia and failing to reproduce. I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of gays had children. Sexual contact is not even necessary.

2. If he fails to reproduce, I have called into question what he is attempting to do. Exactly what sort of world is he starting without a posterity?

Bromeo
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I propose Rollo insert a temporary poll in this thread for Mitch’s situation:

1. Cut Bait
2. Turn it around

Mitch
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Sentient
Re Rollos book. Touché. Maybe not terrible, but not that good.

Noted about conditional GC, I do recall reading that, but good reminder that my ace is strongest right now. If I manage things reasonably well, combined with my reading of her, I think the risk of needing to defend DV charges is reasonable.

dr zipper
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mitch is a grown man, commenters here have said their piece and so has mitch

he’s made his choice, no more nagging, let it play out

that being said, sentient, put me down for a sawbuck on under 3mos after her GC toehold is secured lol

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