Mitch’s Red Pill

With apologies to my regular readers and commentariat, I’m mid-stream through crafting my next essay and what do I see in the comment feed from last week’s post? Our (our soon to be formerly) Purple Pill friend Mitch returning to give us all an update on what was supposed to be his inevitable married bliss. Rather than allow Mitch’s saga get buried under pages of comments I thought I’d post the continuation of his in-progress unplugging here for others to benefit from. Be sure you read the first case study before you dig into his update below:

Hello Gentlemen,

It’s good to be back here reading your insightful, intelligent, funny, actionable posts. I’ve been away for awhile. Glad to see Rollo’s blog and books doing so well. Congratulations sir, and I sincerely thank you from the bottom of my purple-but-slowly-turning-red heart for your work. I am now eating my previous words about this being ideological and cult-like. lol. Some might remember that I was the eponymous subject of one of Rollo’s posts on purple pill, and the ensuing discussion about whether I was setting myself up for slaughter in marrying a Ukrainian I’d met online. I (basically) said I’m a big boy now at 50, and know what I’m doing with women, and would let ya’ll know how it worked out. Not that anyone gives a rat’s ass after all my bullshit, but whatever, here I am.

Funny thing is that I’d been thinking about posting this update a few days ago, after reconnecting with TRM blog, and I would have said something along the lines of: she has been here almost 9 months, we been married for 5, going reasonably well, regular and enjoyable sex, she cooks everything from scratch and takes good care of me and the house; she’s diligently studying english, meeting people, etc, seems mostly happy; without fail she packs my lunch every night – once she woke up at about 1 am and remembered she had not made my lunch for work next day, and even though I told her not to worry about it, she got up, and went downstairs and *cooked* me lunch. Her responsibility, she said. She also genuinely likes me, and is very loving and affectionate and passionate in bed. We’ve had some conflict, and I’ve mostly held my ground, but made some fairly key concessions in the spirit of playing fair (since she has, in actuality at this point, zero leverage in this relationship), and accommodating her wants and needs.

And hypergamy doesn’t give a fuck.

Lo and behold, yesterday the computer is open and I see a ‘Hi’ come across the screen from Skype from a male. Open the Skype window and she’s been chatting with this dude from New Hampshire or some shit, not long, but the kind of bare bones swapping of details – the guy’s on hunt for a wife, and she’s asking about the size of his town, and what’s the weather like, how many kids, etc. As the blood drains from my face, the veil parts, I see it for what it is, and I realize without a shadow of a doubt, this shit is real. Complete with the subsequent hamstering and total lack of accountability following.

I don’t believe she was actually interacting with this guy with any conscious intent to find someone else, but clearly she thinks about it, and is willing to “play” with the idea, even at a time when she has sooo much to lose. I could withdraw my petition to get her a green card in two seconds, and she’s done. I think she was/is bored and enjoys the attention and validation, and sense of (diminishing) power that she has over men.

So now I need to figure out what to do. i am beyond grateful for Rollo’s work, this blog, and forum, and having internalized RP to the limited extent that I have, and know I need to do A LOT more. It’s pretty humbling to be 50 and need to be totally schooled in something so basic. It’s fricking amazing that I have managed to hide myself from this knowledge for so long.

Thank you.

[…]

I meant to also say that I have learned a ton from you guys, and really appreciate the time and energy that many of you spent last fall trying to get me to get my head out of my ass. What can I say, I need to learn the hard way. Truth is, though, you guys were so vehement about it, that it definitely helped me to keep myself in reserve and react a bit more strategically to her.

Just to preface here, my intent isn’t to be cruel or pop of with ‘I todja so’, but I think it’s very important for guys in the various stages of unplugging to see Mitch’s situation as a clinical example. I’m not trying to flame you or pillory you Mitch, but your situation does serve as a good example.

As I mentioned in the first post about Mitch, there is a visceral desire on the part of Purple Pill men to force fit the parts of Red Pill awareness into Blue Pill idealisms and personal convictions because they simple cannot face the abyss of what a full Red Pill awareness presents to the belief set that the Blue Pill has conditioned them for. It is truly awful to be confronted with unflattering truths about the nature of women as well as a man’s coming to realize he’s got to drop all of his previous idealism and create a new, positive, paradigm for himself based on Red Pill awareness. For a lot of men inured by the Blue Pill it’s just too horrible to let go of those hopes based in a false awareness of their experience.

Thus, we get tropes like “well, the Red Pill is true, but it’s okay to have ONEitis for a girl because my new awareness insulates me from the worst effects of it.” Mitch even began his first entreaty by claiming this woman was “the ONE.”

I’d like to encourage men who still want a good wife to look East. As in, Russia, Ukraine and other former USSR counties. I cannot begin to tell you how encouraged and revitalized I am by this woman I met – and by most of the women I met and interacted with before I found “the One.

Shades of Purple

I’m beginning to see that there are two varieties of Purple Pill men; the first is the guy whose revenue and wellbeing depends on his only accepting what the Red Pill presents to him in half-measure. These are the Man-Up, do the right thing moralists who only ever marginally warn against the nature of women while believing that the self-improvement imperative that the Red Pill represents to men will more than compensate for the very real dangers of a man not fully killing his inner Beta. These are usually the guys who at one time were solidly Red Pill and used that awareness to their personal benefit with women (and life), but at some stage their life’s circumstance demanded that they “change their ways” and shift back to believing that Blue Pill ideals can be had with Red Pill means. These are the men who follow The Script.

The second type of Purple Pill man is the one who never fully unplugged. I believe this was where Mitch was when I outlined his situation in the first essay. There is a certain class of men who simply cannot ignore the truths that the Red Pill presents to them, and they eagerly endorse the tenets and the understanding of women’s visceral natures. Hypergamy doesn’t care, they get the dynamics of Alpha Fucks/Beta Bucks, they even believe they’ve come to terms with their own (often Beta) nature and what it is they believe is necessary to effect a change in their lives; yet there are aspects of that Red Pill awareness that they desperately want to reconcile with their long-held Blue Pill idealistic hopes. So, as a result, they attempt to discard or ignore whatever aspect of the Red Pill that isn’t conducive to making those old Blue Pill dreams come true.

For as long as I’ve been writing in the Manosphere I’ve always made a point of telling men never to use my marriage (or other Red Pill married men’s marriages) as some kind of template or goal to be had with Red Pill awareness. I realize that my own Red Pill marriage seems like some ideal to strive for, but what I think most unmarried single men need to consider is that, for the vast majority of men who’ve been able to unplug, remake themselves and employ an internalized understanding of Red Pill awareness within their marriages and in their families, these men do so in spite of themselves.

Very few men I know of, whom I’d say are Red Pill aware husbands and fathers, did not set out to be so. I have no doubt that in the future I’ll encounter men who were formerly Blue Pill and Beta who changed themselves, unplugged, became Red Pill aware, internalized it and used it to enter into a marriage wherein his Frame was always the primary and his wife intrinsically recognized it and was attracted to him because of it. I do hope this is eventually the case for some men, but as it stands now, the far more common occurrence is the Blue Pill, Beta husband who was “awakened while married” and turned his marriage back from the brink – if indeed that is the case at all. Even more commonly it is divorced men put through the ringer who unplugged post-divorce.

As I mentioned in the first case study about Mitch is his story is engaging because it so faithfully follows the progression of rationales Purple Pill men will use in order to hold fast to their old, comfortable mindset – in this case it’s the Blue Pill dream of an idyllic marriage had through Red Pill means.

One danger I think should be apparent to Red Pill men having to deal with a Purple Pill guy who’s hostile and resistant to what they’re trying to tell him is the potential disaster a Purple Pill man is setting himself up for in his inability to really stare at the abyss, work through the anger and hopelessness, and then recreate himself. This, I feel, is where that resistance stems from. It’s not so much an inability to acknowledge the truth of what real Red Pill intersexual dynamics is showing him, but rather how he will internalize, process and use that to create a better life for himself. So you get anger, not at the message as much as the messenger, when you tell him his sincere hopes are based on a Blue Pill interpretation of what a ‘good marriage’ is:

Lol…you guys can go fuck yourselves. I appreciate where ya’ll are coming from, though. Trying to save me from myself. And i appreciate how naive my post must sound to a bunch of hard core red pillers like yourselves. However, I am not nearly as inexperienced with women and LTR’s as ya’ll assume. I have learned a lot from red pill in general and this site in particular – it’s very insightful and helpful, and I’ve adjusted my attitude and posture toward women because of it. At the same time, though, it strikes me that many of you are taking on red pill ideas as a kind of ideology, and that’s its own kind of danger. The absolute certainty that ya’ll think you know all you need to know about me and my woman and my relationship from that very brief post is what I mean. As if red-pill theory, or whatever it is, completely and concisely explains the total dynamic between a man and woman. Red pill explains a lot of things really well, but certainly not the totality of the mystery that is between a man a woman in a marriage.

And yet, it does and it did.

If you don’t understand what I’m talking about, then I feel sorry for you. Red pill helps me tremendously in seeing more clearly what is going on. I totally get that I am a beta provider for her, that a large part of my appeal is what I can provide, and I get that she is turned on by alpha traits. Both of these things can coexist in the same person. Understanding this and what’s behind it makes me feel less anxious and insecure about that, because I’m more clear about what to do.

Also, being a beta provider does not make me a bitch. Providing for my woman and family is a large part of what makes me a man, and I derive great satisfaction and pride in doing so.
Also, I am not in any way “settling” for a 44 yo woman. Younger women were/are available to me, but that is not what i choose.

There’s a lot more to life than fucks and bucks, but if that’s all it is for you, then this is the type of woman you will attract. In a relationship, what you get is what you are. If I can’t find a way to live with an open heart, then I don’t know what the fucking point is. But, to each his own.

So, here we are. And again, it’s hard for this not to come off as a big ‘I toldja so’, but I think it’s even more important for Red Pill men who have it in them to want to help a Blue Pill guy unplug, or hell, just to even recognize the reasons why he’s in the personal circumstances he is, to remember that the Purple Pill guy is only lashing out because he fears the totality of the truth that Red Pill awareness brings into his life. As I always say, unplugging guys from the Matrix is dirty work, but I am genuinely glad to have Mitch back on track and hopefully he’s learned something from the experience. I think other Red Pill men should adopt the same spirit of welcoming a Blue/Purple Pill prodigal son back into the fold.

So that’s my take, but please feel free to comment on Mitch’s situation in the comments thread.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

728 comments on “Mitch’s Red Pill

  1. @ Ton

    Mitch is wrestling with this. He’s starting to crack just a little, and he’s in justification mode.

    When I read this – ” The BPD is the only one that cheated on me, as far as I know, and when I found out, i basically kicked her to the curb without much fuss. I even gave her a $1,000 and a mattress and helped her move the mattress to her new lovers house. And then I was really fucking sad for two years because I really loved and missed her. ” , in my mind this was something to try to forget and never repeat again as long as one draws breath.

    Kick her to the curb and give her a grand? And help her move a mattress into her new lover’s house?

    I’m at a complete loss, but we manage to do some dumb shit from time to time. Thing is, don’t use it as some kind of positive(?) example.

    I dunno man. I get a headache reading Mitch sometimes. Now he’s gonna go off in defense of his …. whatever he’s defending.

    Good thing there are other more patient commenters.

    One thing about RP awareness is that Once You Are Aware, You Can’t Go Back To Sleep.

  2. @Mitchell

    I recently made a decision to not comment here much…I decided that I needed to spend more time on other things.

    When it comes to marriage, I know my shit better than anyone else here…probably even better than HABD…if anyone gainsays me, weigh their experience and ability against mine. I’ve been married over 30 years to a foreigner. Went through a five-year long depression and no sex during that time. Recovered and we are banging like newlyweds. I’m not bringing in any fucking paycheck. No income. I’m not on the BB side of things.

    I go out dancing without Mrs. Gamer every fucking weekend and stay out late. Don’t think that Mrs. Gamer is suffering or abused–quite the contrary. She’s enjoying a thrilling emotional ride. She knows that there are LOTS of young women who enjoy spending time with me–dancing and chatting and flirting…I will always claim that that’s all I do.

    Red Pill is about the truth about women and the burden of performance of men. There is no middle ground between Red Pill and Blue Pill.

    Red Pill truth #1: Men and women are fundamentally different in many ways. Men are stronger and more straightforward and communicate overtly. Women are weaker and more deceptive and communicate primarily covertly.

    she tried to con me into sex last night. Of course I didn’t and won’t. I have been stone cold with her since yesterday.

    You always want to be affectionate to a woman with whom you have a relationship. You also want to limit how much time you spend giving attention to the woman if you are trying to train her. Dog training. Better behavior brings more attention. Bad behavior brings less attention. But the master must ALWAYS be affectionate and never butthurt or cold. (ht to HABD)

    This does not mean that you have to sex up your wife. You still need to be her group leader and that requires giving her some affection. Smiles. A kiss on the cheek. A little flirting. A hug. Saying “hello” and “goodbye”. Not stone cold.

    Red Pill truth #2: When it comes to relationship wiring, all women have the same biological wiring. AWALT. AF/BB. Hypergamy. This can be somewhat affected by paternal training when they are young or by spousal training after marriage (Liz is the poster child for the 2nd case).

    Do you actually not know ANY men that have reasonably happy lives with women that are not totally RP?

    I know married men who seem happy but I’m sure that their sex lives are minimal. A Blue Pill natural who resists being betatized in marriage might be truly happy…but there aren’t a lot of those. The answer is “No.”

    You are pushing back against the Red Pill. It’s tough to give up your emotional investments in the Blue Pill. It took me a few years to do so.

    Blax thinks that vetting is the key, but he’s full of shit. (Sorry Blax.) Vetting helps, but it’s not the key thing. The key thing is to be able to assess the emotional state of the woman and to manage it. I’m sure Blax does all that without thinking and likely isn’t even aware that he does it. I don’t think about assessing Mrs. Gamer’s emotional state–I just do it. Of course, I am aware that I do it and manage it.

    Chew on all this a while…there’s a lot here. Best wishes.

  3. @insanitybytes

    I’ll repeat the last comment I made to you a few months ago.

    When are you coming to So. New England, and will you be discreet?

  4. @Mitch

    It sounds like this is what you are after and don’t know how to ask or get.

    https://therationalmale.com/2016/11/11/deep-conversion/

    “For women, this Deep Conversion can only result from a man who so thoroughly satisfies her Hypergamous nature she’s willing to abandon her own sexual strategy. And, like the guy with ONEitis, she dedicates herself to the one guy she was able to (she thinks) lock down who was a better-than-deserved Hypergamous prospect. Women get very upset when this dedication is questioned (not unlike the ONEitis guy) because they’ve generally abandoned furthering their sexual strategy by investing their egos into a guy who satisfied their Hypergamous natures. To doubt that devotion is to doubt the wisdom of her investment – and that goes down to her evolved biology and psychology in that choice. I should note here that Alpha Widows are born from this conversion.”

    You talk a good game but for some reason the past relationships didn’t work out,my guess is being raised in a feminine primary social order has left you with a false perspective of women.
    Women like IB are the major cause of perversions and the myriad ills of society. While conversly the simple praxeology of TRP is the cure for these ills.

    What makes a man resort to domestic violence is the misconception of egalitarian equalism,making him believe she plans this. While a better understanding of the differences in the sexes gives a man better understanding and acceptance,making him a better leader.

    There is no need for abuse when we understand her nature then treat her accordingly. Suddenly things fall into place.

  5. “I recently made a decision to not comment here much…I decided that I needed to spend more time on other things.”

    Thought you were busy bailing water.

  6. “Suddenly things fall into place.”

    How much of her reaction to you putting your foot down was desperation? how much of it was hypergamy? You can deny that drawing the line and showing your domination made her like you and respect you, generally just a big turn on for her, But what happened next?

    The big question is can a man be more of an alpha than the one that made a widow out of her in the first place? and again does he want to be that man? One would assume the benefits are good,but at what cost to the feminised mans self respect,going against everything he believes in.

  7. “but it is completely false that all women *will* react in the same way to the same given circumstances. That’s patently absurd. ”

    And yet St Msytery codified this into a Method… And Rollo’s written three books on exactly this dynamic.

    Mitch – have you read any of Rollo’s books?

    I was the one who suspected and elaborate troll and you are proving me right.

  8. Asd

    “Blax thinks that vetting is the key, but he’s full of shit. (Sorry Blax.) Vetting helps, but it’s not the key thing. The key thing is to be able to assess the emotional state of the woman and to manage it. ”

    Vetting is where the eternal question is answered ” Is the juice worth the squeeze?”

    Is it?

  9. “Good thing there are other more patient commenters.

    One thing about RP awareness is that Once You Are Aware, You Can’t Go Back To Sleep.”

    Yeah, I raise my hand.

    Cause you just said AWALT=By Degree.

    What about Red Pill Aware by Degree? I’m no stranger to being an inscrutable mastermind. But shit, I had to really work at it to be more and more Red Pill Aware. I’m lucky cause I’m skilled. I never quite was Blue Pill, cause always skeptical. I worked hard at becoming more and more aware. And it fucking worked like a charm. And lest someone thinks I don’t do Action in real life, you are just judging a narrative by it’s anonymous cover. The phases I went through, then acted on–and I acted a hell of a lot– made all the difference in my world. But I had to discuss and learn. No one ever told me this shit. And I had a few buffers. I shrugged them off and kept going to do the work.

    But now Blax and Ton are using the Apex Alpha Natural fallacy. I thought Rollo explained that upstream. There are degrees of Talent and Mastery in Red Pill. There are degrees of Awareness and confidence.

    I can’t believe how I changed my mindset by Action in Married Red pill over time. Every three months, six months, nine months, ETC. the gains just kept collecting.

    No one is ever secure in the setting of AWALT by degree and Red Pill Awareness and Game by degree. I think we all agree is to move the weight toward more.

    It’s doing a disservice to the Tribe of Commenters on TRM to think that Natural “Just Do It” by instinct will work with those that have a capacity to advance their learning, rather than think they have a hammer, so everything is a nail. Once you develop talent (mastery) and have confidence, your Actions have force multipliers.

    https://rianstonept.blogspot.ca/2017/02/power-games-introduction.html
    quote:

    With the proper tools, I can develop this otherwise unattainable skillet, or Dark Triad behaviors. Like naturals, true DT aren’t self-aware, and run into problems when situations require thinking outside of the box. It’s their one, very useful tool, and they approach everything as if it were a nail:

    The man who pulls a knife on you is at a disadvantage … Psychologically, he only has one weapon. His thinking is therefore limited to the use of that single weapon. You, on the other hand, are thinking about all your weapons. You’re thinking 360 degrees around him. You’ve got all the advantages when you think about it. –Bruce Lee.

    My advantage is that I am not a natural. I learn deliberately, and understand, each day, how best to work with strategy.

    So lets not have a Naturals vs. those guys that had to learn as they go (came aware after the age of having already gotten to Natural) tribal exclusion game going on. Don’t send a guy into a gunfight when he only has a hammer or a knife.

    That be being said, the Naturals are great Red Pill role models. What they are saying is not wrong, it is just not contextual.

    And I don’t believe for a second that going back and forth in a hot kitchen is a waste of time. Hashing out Red Pill discussion is by no means mental masturbation, if a guy is working the script of Red Pill Game on the side. That has not been my experience. Shit, just like an upward ascending stock chart, there is something to be gained when your stock in life goes from $144 to $900. Because you invested and stuck with the fundamental precepts. That here being Red Pill and Game.

    Mitch’s stock went from $144 to $200 in this experience. He’s still learning. He spawned a lot of other guys thoughts on the subject. Some of which may continue to invest in Red Pill. That’s a good thing.

    And Married Red Pill contains different fundamental precepts than single guy game. But is still shares a lot of similarities. It does share Red Pill Praxeology.

    So I need to further develop my own MPO, maybe a lot of men need to do that, but I’m going to suggest that some of you might benefit by focusing less on it.

    Each guy is different. No one needs to lessen their own MPO if indeed that MPO is a solid one and is strong, relies on Truth and is proper for that individual man.

    Work on your own individual MPO. Move towards betterment.

  10. “Liz is the poster child for the 2nd case”

    Liz is an alpha widow who’s alpha has low T. She is in denial.

  11. @Sentient

    Vetting is where the eternal question is answered ” Is the juice worth the squeeze?”
    Is it?

    Depends on your game, doesn’t it? The male burden of performance.

  12. “but it is completely false that all women *will* react in the same way to the same given circumstances. That’s patently absurd. ”

    And yet St Msytery codified this into a Method… And Rollo’s written three books on exactly this dynamic.

    Mitch – have you read any of Rollo’s books?

    Yes. The Game script certainly works.

    Red Pill truth #2: When it comes to relationship wiring, all women have the same biological wiring. AWALT. AF/BB. Hypergamy. This can be somewhat affected by paternal training when they are young or by spousal training after marriage (Liz is the poster child for the 2nd case).

    Yes. The Married Red Pill script also works. It has been Q.E.D.ed in Married Red Pill Reddit and is backed up by the side bar literature there.

    With the caveat: https://therationalmale.com/2016/07/18/are-you-experienced/comment-page-9/#comment-164864

    bluepillprofessor
    July 29, 2016 at 9:52 am
    Big Al- I am happy you are participating in MRP but you may have missed the point and inadvertently given support to many “anti-MRP” Red Pillers. One of the main objections to MRP from Red Pill Guys is that it gives young men the idea that it can work so why not? Married Red Pill provides an excuse to get married and ignore the entire thrust of the Red Pill!!

    That is not, and never was the intention of Married Red Pill. We are ALREADY married and are making the best of it. We favor STAYING married, NOT GETTING married!

    Can you MAKE it work? You bet! Is it worth it to get married? Not a chance!

    Tell us, Big-Al. Tell us what advantage you get by legally committing to this girl. Tell us why you must marry her to provide her security or to raise your kids. Tell us the advantages of being married. Tell us why a totally one sided binding agreement that is legally enforced for EVERYTHING the woman wants and NOTHING for what the man wants is good for you.

    There is a certain amount of negotiating desire that can happen with either Mitch’s mail order bride situation. Or a long term relationships because of AWALT, The Feminine Imperative and its Societal Matrix the firmware females have with the Female Stages of Manipulation. The thing to do is move away from that and towards your best representation of yourself in a Masculine Imperative, enlightened self interested paradigm. If that is something that fem-critics decry, then they can’t even realize that that whole investment a man makes in that direction is a huge benefit to his LTR woman. It is self evident. She wants it. He wants it. It benefits both. That doesn’t mean a man has to invest in his woman if she isn’t quality. He invests in his masculine self improvement. She’s welcome to come along.

    If she’s valuable, he shouldn’t squander that value. If she is not valuable, he should cut her loose as not worthy of him. If he sees himself as worthy. And he should move toward value and worthiness. No matter who she is.

  13. culum:
    (like the very act of going to Ukraine to find a bride or meet women) automatically puts you into deep Provider territory – and your starting position is that you have a hole you need to dig yourself out of, to provoke genuine desire etc.

    V. good point.

    Keith
    Mitch it don’t add up ? Why did she leave the computer on? Why did she leave it open to Skype ? Married weman don’t get caught unless they want to get caught cheating ? Why did little miss unicorn leave a bread crum trail for you to chase ? Is she testing you ? Trying to see what she can get away with ? Does she have zero respect for you and zero fear to lose your interest ?  

    This is actually what I think is happening. She isn’t looking to branch swing, not at this point, but it’s a subliminal signal that it definitely *could* happen if something doesn’t change.

    Blax,
    Excellent comments on religion, especially wrt shrinking my available pool by 90%. That was/is a big problem for me. This was a significant factor in my decision to look at EE.

    Ton
    I think you’re probably right about that. The very air we breathe nowadays is from an effeminate frame, and it is very hard to see that, or even if you do see it, not be influenced by it. Or was, I’m getting better at not doing that. I know it’s hard to tell lol, but some of my friends are concerned about me so that tells me something.

    Rugby,
    I don’t journal, but interacting here and laying out all my shit in front of people sort of fills that function, but on steroids. The mirror you guys hold up to me is incredibly helpful. Because you guys are real as fuck, and totally honest. No way in hell would I do it if it weren’t anonymous. If sharing my story is helpful to others, I’m very glad. But I am doing it because it serves my interest.

    Palmasailor
    “I even gave her a $1,000 and a mattress and helped her move the mattress to her new lovers house.”
    Look in the mirror and get some fucking self respect man.

    Really, dude? So kicking to the curb with some basic decency a woman with a diagnosed mental illness of BPD, and avoiding a shitstorm that fucks shit up in my life is about a lack of self respect? wtf. I can’t relate to that. Is that feminine of me? I don’t know. That’s just logic, man.

    Sentient

    “but it is completely false that all women *will* react in the same way to the same given circumstances. That’s patently absurd. ”
    And yet St Msytery codified this into a Method… And Rollo’s written three books on exactly this dynamic.

    You are conflating two entirely different things here. Maybe my language was not precise enough, but I’d think you could get my meaning from the context I put it in. Or are you just trolling me?

    Mystery and Rollo have codified intersexual dynamics and gotten it to a T. I don’t believe I have ever actually disputed anything they’ve said – even last fall. And I’m not now. In addition to that which Mystery and Rollo have codified, there’s an *additional* reality to women. And you are simply not interested in that. That’s totally fine. But it doesn’t make me a troll.

  14. @SJF:

    “but it is completely false that all women *will* react in the same way to the same given circumstances. That’s patently absurd. ”

    And yet St Msytery codified this into a Method… And Rollo’s written three books on exactly this dynamic.

    Mitch – have you read any of Rollo’s books?

    Yes. The Game script certainly works.

    This is what I’m talking about. That sentence completely out of context, has even SJF agreeing and adding on. And I’m a troll. No, I’m being trolled. See above post to Sentient.

  15. I marvel at women’s instinct.

    While men seek rationale, reasoning, trial and error…

    Women simply act instictually, to a fault. Especially modern women with all the backchatter of facebook, tinder, instagram, etc.. they still mamge to act on instinct. As frustrating as it is for men, they simply follow their impulse. It may lead them into some fucked up situations, but it is their instincts at play.

    It is not our posture to find fault. It’s all faulty in the grand scheme.

    But acting instinctually for men takes constant awareness and practice to quiet the justifications and reason.

    In the 70s, EST (Erhardt Seminars Training) took a lot of hate from the weak minded. I went. I listened. Got it. Moved on with the tools. Great shit if you can get past the orthodoxy. Very Red Pill, even for women.

    They lined up the whole group and got in each and every face. Loudly demanding to get out of your head. Get out of over-fucking-thinking everything.

    I highly recommended studying this stuff. NLP has great value too. Resist the skeptics. They don’t get it, would rather trash the founders and followers and cultists instead of getting the message and walking with the toolbox.

    I never went back but took with me the essence, long before the red pill ever existed.

    Dale Carnegie, L Ron Hubbard, Tony Robbins, Werner Erhard. These guys had a lot to say.

    They were leaders in their own realm. They also had bitches in droves.

    Dig it, brothers.

    Literally, dig the earth. Cultivate, anything. Carrots, tomatoes, cannabis. Get in touch with the life force. Follow the seasons.

    Surf, snowboard, climb….solo. excel enough to take life risking chances.

    Ditch the groupthink and break out.

    Your instinct will emerge.

  16. @Sentient:

    Because you guys are real as fuck, and totally honest.

    I give you the benefit of the doubt that you just did not read me carefully, – I’ve done it too reading quickly and think I understand what’s being said, but don’t actually – and accidently conflated the ideas of how women respond to game with the idea that not all women are going to go ape shit on you and fuck up your life when you break up with them when handled correctly.

    Two entirely different things. In the first proposition, AWALT. In the second, no they most definitely are not.

  17. Man, I spent 34 (actually 28 when you exclude the first six years of being a well cared for boy) years of my life having someone lecture to me in my profession. At the same time I spent a lot of time learning and being an autodidact outside of my professional life.

    I’m a firm believer in Action outside of whatever roles life presents to you.

    At some point, round about age 29, I resented the lecturing and decided I could decide a thing or two for myself.

    Which brings me to a field report relevant to the OP. I had a patient today that came in for some minor things, but I engaged in him in a conversation about his sales job. For a major glucose pump and glucose monitoring company (perhaps second tier). Me being Type I diabetic, I was trying to glean some information about glucose monitoring systems. His company was offline in this because of revamping. As I asked questions, he answered some perfunctory questions and I asked about some local endocrinologists and their patient cred.

    I got my own system of managing blood sugars, but it is fraught with risky low blood sugars. The more you seek to get near perfect, the more you flirt with low blood sugars. We’re talking glycohemoglobins around 6.5 to 6.7 for 27 years without a insulin pump. And fingersticks about 6 times a day, depending activity.

    He goes into lecturing mode about this and that and I’m resentful about the message.

    Sometimes a guy doesn’t need to be lectured about success.

    I’m not saying Mitch shouldn’t be lectured to, but the road to competency is littered by guys that are pestered so much that they resent the message. The best success I have had encouraging my tribe members has been with the guise that they are doing pretty good with what they are dealing with. And encouraging them to do better with the understanding they got that skill withing them.

  18. @blax

    Kick her to the curb and give her a grand? And help her move a mattress into her new lover’s house?

    I’m at a complete loss, but we manage to do some dumb shit from time to time. Thing is, don’t use it as some kind of positive(?) example.

    Ok, I really am this fucking dumb. Would you mind spelling this one out for me?

    As noted to Palma, wtf is wrong with being decent about kicking out somebody *with a diagnosed mental illness of BPD!! for fucksake, and thereby avoiding the shitstorm consequences that really *could* be severe?

    What do I gain by exacting revenge on somebody that I need out of my life? Do I gain self respect by burning a bitch’s life to the ground because she cheated on me? A woman with BPD, an illness in which sexual impulsivity is a symptom? Does being your own MPO mean that you can never enter into another person’s reality and have a little compassion? Is compassion itself unmanly? What this have to do with RP?

    I used it as an example to illustrate the idea that when shit hits the fan, you have enormous ability to control *how* it goes down. I’d go so far to say that in many cases you could actually *prevent* bitches from going crazy and taking you to the cleaners. If you wanted to. Which of course you don’t want to because you’ve been hurt, and you react and lash at her out in your butthurt, do whatever you can to burn her life to the ground. Is that actually masculine ?

    Agreed on spending 2 years being sad. *That* will definitely never happen again.

  19. And I will try and stop resisting and just shut up and read and learn. Thanks.

    SJF, you’ve got my number (as I think you realize, so thank you for everything)

  20. The Skype incident is typical. Mitch blew it out of proportion. It’s a shit test. To be ignored, mocked, mused upon. Chicks do this. For attention from the Skyper’s, and from Mitch. Positive or negative. Nothing new or unusual.

    Once, I was late to meet my main girl. Half my age. Well, I’m usually late…for dread’s sake. This time 2 hours. When I arrived, She was at the rendezvous cuddled with some other unknown mofo. A very small town. Pop. under 500. He stood up, introduced himself and I went for a beer and rolled a fattie. Ignored the sultry disposition. They resumed their dry hump session. She expected me to rile. So much for her expectations.

    In due time, I told her it was time to leave. She promptly stood up and left with me leaving the mofo gaping. He truly thought he had the goods nailed for the night.

    Respect reinforced

    Never happened again. Take note.

  21. Long before the internet, Mark Twain had some advice with i-bytes in mind: “Never argue with a fool. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

  22. @ Mitch

    The point I was making is that there is being nice and compassionate, but the amount of compassion is proportional. You can be nice while keeping your wallet holstered.

    When people show you what they think of you via action, believe them. It’s not about burning down anybody’s life as much as it’s about extricating yourself. Never pay crazy. This was a girlfriend, and a poor example at that. If you willfully, with malice of forethought, break my trust, then all of my obligations to you end, even kindness. To what end?

    I mean, I understand being a ” decent guy ” up to a certain point. But I also believe that my first obligation is to be decent to myself.

  23. “Ok, I really am this fucking dumb. Would you mind spelling this one out for me?”

    “when I found out, i basically kicked her to the curb without much fuss”

    This part is fine. Cheat once you’re done. No angry butthurt reaction. Get out. we’re done. No discussion about it. Hold a strong frame.

    “I even gave her a $1,000 and a mattress and helped her move the mattress to her new lovers house”

    Giving her a ridiculous sum of money to some crazy slut for fucking this guy behind your back (it happened more than once) and providing them a mattress so they can continue fucking until eventually she gets bored and ditches him for a new exciting prospect (you don’t get into serious relationships with BPDs ever. Just casual fuckbuddies) is not “being decent”. Its fucking insane dude.

  24. @Blax,

    Thanks, I understand what you’re saying, and agree completely. To my mind due to a number of circumstances not provided in the example, giving her a $1,000 was entirely proportional. On the other hand, $1,000 to exit a 6-year relationship with a BPD without drama is a freakin bargain. There’s a cost/benefit analysis going on there that is definitely in my interest. Whatever she thinks of me is not important at that point.

    Anyway, doesn’t matter. I realize I need to study Rollo’s work and Game, try things out, learn. Me trying to argue the finer points of something I don’t deeply understand is probably not going to get me too far.

    @Sentient,

    One more backtrack: I re-read what I’d written about AWALT and it was unclear what I was trying to say. Hopefully my pugilistic follow ups clarified. 😉

  25. “I realize I need to study Rollo’s work and Game, try things out, learn. Me trying to argue the finer points of something I don’t deeply understand is probably not going to get me too far.”

    Heheh. Some times you find a right track. Don’t be torn between your half truth and victimization, fighting back with counter attacks. Be steadfast with your realizations.

    Don’t compromise your realizations. But don’t not realize what we all know what is going on here.:

    https://youtu.be/shfIU9C3KZ4

    Oh the mud splattered victims
    Have to pay out all along the ancient highway
    Torn between half truth and victimization
    Fighting back with counter attacks

    It’s when that rough god goes riding
    When the rough god goes gliding
    And then rough god goes riding
    Riding on in

    I was flabbergasted by the headlines
    People in glasshouses throwing stones
    Gaping wounds that will never heal
    Now they’re moaning like a dog in a manger

    It’s when that rough god goes riding
    And then the rough god goes gliding
    There’ll be nobody hiding
    When that rough god comes riding on in

    And it’s a matter of survival
    When you’re born with your back against the wall
    Won’t somebody hand me a bible
    Won’t you give me that number to call

    When that rough god goes riding
    And then that rough god goes gliding
    They’ll be nobody hiding
    When that rough god goes riding on in
    Riding on in

    When that rough god goes riding
    When that rough god goes gliding
    There’ll be nobody hiding
    When that rough god goes riding on in
    Riding on in

    There’ll be no more heroes
    They’ll be reduced to zero
    When that rough god goes riding
    Riding on in
    Riding on in
    Riding on in
    Riding on in

  26. @adsgamer
    Great story- that’s quite a turnaround. Maybe there’s hope for me yet. The dog training analogy is really helpful. I used to have a German Shepherd and trained him as a wilderness search and rescue dog, and mostly it involved training myself. It’s never the dogs fault, it’s yours because you either didn’t communicate in a way he can understand, or you’re not providing the proper motivation and rewards, or you haven’t sufficiently established yourself as he who must be obeyed. And cruelty doesn’t work very well. Hmmm.

    Stone cold is not quite what I did today. I was polite, but very distant, walking through the house as if I fucking own it, which I do lol. Last night when she kept coming into my office to ask questions, I asked her to please knock before entering. Today I dropped her off at the house at noon, and let her know I would be needing the (my) laptop this evening, so she should do what she needs to do with it before I get home.

    The predictable well cooked dinner was on the table when I got home. I didn’t thank her. But I did ask her how her class went. Mostly, I’ve been holed up reading this and RP material, doing what I need to do right now. Maybe tomorrow I will give her a brief kiss and a squeeze (she loves to be groped). How am I doing?

  27. @ Hastalavista

    Okay, i’ll call myself rp guy with good observational skills. You say what holds me back? I think that me having naturally low sex drive pretty much seals the deal. I honestly used to believe that being helpful and listening is the way to melt girls hearts but i was wrong. I guess i was trying to negotiate a desire through my helpful nature which eventually bite into my rear. Its sad to see when friends around me have sexual experience but remain blue pilled.

  28. @Mitch
    I’m a little unclear as to what you are trying to achieve now, what your desirable end state is. I get the impression that what you plan to do is to continue sulking for a few days, to ‘teach her a lesson’, and from there things will go back to ‘normal’.
    I don’t know your Olya/Tanya/Natalya, but I have an idea what is running through her mind right now. It goes something like this –
    I am in a business arrangement with this American man. He is OK, quite nice to me, until the last few days when he is being a pig. I am still waiting for my green card, I need to improve my English, I need a driving licence, a little money of my own. I will stay with this man for maybe a year while I sort these things out. After that our transaction is complete, I get to stay in USA, for which I have let him have sex with me for around one year, and I made him lunch every day. Its a good deal for everyone.
    Part of the arrangement is that we play a game of pretend, that we are a real couple, ‘in love’. This is important for the immigration service, and this American man enjoys the game. Is fine with me, except that I made a mistake with the computer which destroyed the fantasy. Now he is angry with me. I will suck his dick, that will make things better.
    Черт возьми, мужчины такие глупые

  29. @Mitch

    You are making good progress, but of course still have work to do.

    If you are stone cold it’s because you think of your woman as another man who is hustling you and you want to get even.

    Red Pill truth: It’s Ok if girls are deceptive because that’s biology. It’s not Ok for you to get butthurt because a girl is deceptive. It’s up to you to bring good game so that a girl doesn’t feel like she needs to deceive you.

    Here’s how you need to view your girl: She’s your beloved but bratty kid sister who has been over indulged and needs correction, affection, emotional support, etc. When you need to correct her, withdraw some attention and maybe tease her when you have to be overt.

    I have a couple of stories that will illustrate this.

    First one, a girl was trying to steal a red bandanna out of my back pocket while I was dancing with another woman. It felt really creepy and I caught her and pulled her along by her wrist for a bit before releasing her. Afterwards I went and introduced myself to her and played my Broken Taillight Game where I poked her butt high on the cheek. It was teasing and fun and I enforced my boundaries and made my point in a smooth way. As I was leaving, the girl told me, “Nice to meet you,” while smiling broadly. I returned her sentiments and left.

    Second, a girl was pointing her index finger in my direction while chatting with me and another guy. (This girl had been all over me, squealing whenever she made a mistake while she danced near/with me and also asked me to dance and tried to make me promise to ask her to dance and she made it a point to be next to me during line dances.) I felt uncomfortable, so I grabbed her hand and put my teeth on her finger and growled and she pulled her hand away. I barked like a dog and presented my butt for a swat, then pulled it away. Playful and teasing. I made my point.

  30. @Mike:

    Ok got it. Now let´s focus on the advantage of your situation for a moment: The price the BP guys are paying is actually huge, it comes from this believe system: (1) I have to find TheOne (TM), (2) who loves me for who I am (TM), (3) then we will live happy together forever, (4) with tons of exiting sex until we die. And if this doesn´t happen in my life, I probably made a mistake, so I just have to try harder.

    So as a RP guy, you should understand that this is a setup for failure. To live a happy life as a man, you need to focus on yourself, you need to find your passion, whatever it is, but for sure it has nothing to do with women. And of course if playing video games is your biggest passion, you should probably reconsider and activelely look for something more productive in the long run. And to become a strong man, it is very helpful to have some body strength, so going to the gym is almost mandatory (no need to go crazy here, once or twice a week for 60 minutes is enough).

    So if you follow this believe system, you are on the right track already. Now I can understand that being a virgin is a problem at 25, especially if you met a women your age, she will not find this attractive, you know this, and this probably produces a ton of mental stress in your brain. Got it.

    The simple RP solution to this is: go to a prostitute a couple times. Now… if you find anything wrong with this, this is a sign of BP programming. So let me lay out the RP truths about sex:

    (1) there is nothing magical about sex, it is not life changing, it is not mystical. It is pure “biology based fun”
    (2) the first time to have sex is not a spiritual moment
    (3) on a scale from 1 to 10 in terms of pleasure, if masturbation is a 6.5, sex will range between 3 and 10
    (4) so only really good sex is way better than masturbation
    (5) you don´t need love to have fun with sex as a man. An emotional connection *can* make sex way better, but it is not needed. Period.

    So you are missing out on something, yes, but it is way less big of a deal then you might actually think. And you can fix it easily after accepting the points 1-5. Go for it!

  31. Dirka Dirka

    I don’t know your Olya/Tanya/Natalya, but I have an idea what is running through her mind right now. It goes something like this –
    I am in a business arrangement with this American man. He is OK, quite nice to me, until the last few days when he is being a pig. I am still waiting for my green card, I need to improve my English, I need a driving licence, a little money of my own. I will stay with this man for maybe a year while I sort these things out. After that our transaction is complete, I get to stay in USA, for which I have let him have sex with me for around one year, and I made him lunch every day. Its a good deal for everyone.

    Ding Ding Ding.

    This… Mitch do you read my FR in the last post with the EE model who auctioned herself off online? Also met a chinese model just like this…. ^^^^

    Business. ROP…. Return on Pussy.

  32. While it is a pig, the *additional* reality of lipstick changes the equation.

    As to Lena Dunham (pictured above by fan Sentient) I sadly see relationship troubles ahead. Her SMV is literally heading to the toilet. Meanwhile boyfriend of five years Frank Antonoff’s SMV continues to climb, as he has become a cool nerd (shown eating a banana during the VMAs, featured on Charlixxx recent boys video), playing guitar in a rock band and is pop’s hottest producer (Taylor Swift, Lorde). Frank is about to meet fun.

    Trolls, please I plead with you, we need a new one! Our current one is devoid of new material, and we get a bitch’s breakfast of regurgitation.

  33. “Her SMV is literally heading to the toilet”
    “Heading to the toilet” was years ago.
    She has been an actual floating turd for at least five years now.

  34. @Mitch
    You came to a red pill site for advice, which means you are open to being told the truth about your situation. Unfortunately, the truth is not pleasant. I am not sure how much of it you are ready to absorb, I suspect not much, but I agree with Rollo’s original purpose in putting it up here, its a useful case to discuss. It certainly helps me to formulate my thoughts. If we can help you too, then that’s a bonus.
    The first point I want to make is this – if your Olya/Tanya/Natalya stumbled onto this site, she would flick through it and laugh. She would be thinking, ‘three books and six years of blogging !! For this ? Men are so fucking stupid !!’, the point being, she doesn’t need blogs and books to know how the world works. Western men, myself included, do.
    You have no idea what you are dealing with. You are way out of your league with her, emotionally, intellectually, culturally… you are completely outclassed. On the other hand, you have money, and you are her ticket to America. You are also an idiot, (I say this with no malice, if we were having a beer together I would talk like this) which actually works in your favour, it makes you easy to please. All she needs to do is let you fuck her, and make you lunch. She can even enjoy the sex too, why not, getting pumped is getting pumped, why not ‘come hard’ (your words) while you go about it. And she gets to play house in a big American McMansion or something like that, very different from her cramped пятиэтажный.
    I’ve reread the original post from a year ago. If I was going to headline that post, it would run, ‘you lost it in Odessa’. That’s where the frame was established, everything from then on was inevitable. Including how this will end, which is with you being angry, hurt, upset, and maybe financially taken to the cleaners. Lets hope you have the sense to avoid that last one, but the three before… the script was written in Odessa. (I’m so envious you got to go there, I hope you appreciate the significance of it, and that it lived up to expectations).
    You said you are reading through the site, am glad you are doing that. There is a lot here, my suggestion is you head over to the sections on ‘One-itis’.
    In that old post you are quoted talking about her as ‘the One’. So, the first thing you need to understand is that women do not think like this. Do you, in all seriousness, really believe for a single moment, that you are her ‘One’ ?
    Let me fuck with you a little, this is red pill, its meant in a friendly way, but its not for the faint hearted. Imagine this… (and of course I don’t know anything about you, so this might be way off, but go with me here)
    Your wife is out with a girlfriend in a local coffee shop, in your American suburb wherever it is. For some reason, I am in the same coffee shop. I hear the two of them talking in Russian, my ears prick up, I check them out. Of the two your wife is the hotter. She is now my target. Assuming she is hot, I WILL approach, guarantee it.
    I will approach her in Russian, a Western man who speaks Russian… this is sooo easy. I’m also in good shape, and I have game, I have lots of HSV going on. After a few minutes she will reveal to me she is from Odessa. I have never been there, BUT I know its significance. We will now talk about Odessa, I will make her homesick, she will be thinking, ‘a Western man, he speaks Russian, he knows Odessa, he gets me !’. In twenty minutes she is in love with me. We will swop numbers, at some point we will meet, at a time and place of my choosing (logistics), the rest will be history.
    I will not be her ‘One’ either, but I will bang her because I will offer her an emotional connection, I am hot, and I know how to generate attraction, to make her feel like a ‘woman’, a sexual animal. After that she will go home to you. She won’t leave you for me, maybe I will see her again, more likely not.
    And then, one other day, she will meet a Russian guy with a yacht. Then you are in real trouble. He will be fat, he will fuck prostitutes, but… he has a yacht.
    Mitch, this is how women think. If she is in any way hot, then men are all around her, online, offline, Westerners, non-Westerners, this is her reality, she has been navigating through it all her life, she has options, like some random guy in New Hampshire. He might be a poor option compared to you, the point is… ITS A COMPETITION ! Maybe I in my coffee shop persona am a poor option compared to you, or the fat Russian guy with the yacht is… maybe.
    Or then again… she will fuck me because I ‘get her’, its a ‘soul connection’, with lots of sweat and other body fluids. And the Russian guy she will run away with… because he has a YACHT !
    I know what’s going on btw. The Russian guy will probably have a good idea, I am thinking he will actually be a total beta, but he will know he is buying her in a business transaction, probably to make babies with.
    Now, lets talk about your description of Eastern European women as looking for ‘their Right Man’.
    You are not wrong here, but… what they understand by their ‘Right Man’ is something so totally different from your ‘the One’, we are talking different planetary species !
    What this actually is relates to Rollo’s concept of ‘female solipsism’. This is my next suggestion for you on the site, after ‘One-itis’, (also the Iron Rule about her never being able to love you the way you want).
    So what is Olya/Tanya/Natalya’s ‘Right Man’ ? Remember, I know these women, I love them too, they are awesome, but.. you need some fucking idea of what is going on here !
    There are several elements to this. The first is hypergamy, plain and simple, they are shooting for the best catch they can get. For this they are competing with the other girls, who are all also insanely hot in this part of the world. All the make up, the dress… this is to compete with the other women. Mr Right will be the one she thinks is the best she can get with what she has.
    The next element is different, and in some ways contradictory. Because what she wants is not just a top provider, and an Alpha, she also wants something else, and it is this – she wants him to surrender to her, to make her the centre of his universe. This is her ideal, it is her fantasy. He could have anyone, but he chose ME. He has a business empire, but it is all for ME, everything he does is for ME.
    The contradictory part is that if he does surrender, he moves from Alpha to Beta status, and later, true for every one of my Russian/Ukrainian interactions, without exception, she divorces him, usually once the children have grown up. All of their husbands were insanely rich. At this point she wants to be 21 again and find an alpha to take her off into orgasm nirvana again, the money side is covered, its time for play.
    Yes, in the Russian speaking world masculine feminine polarity is alive and kicking. But it is not what you think it is. Different challenges, different dynamics. When you went to Odessa you had NFI !
    So the first thing you needed to do when meeting any of these women was to establish the frame. What is going on here, what is the dynamic ?
    What they want to know first off is… can we use sex to get something here ? what does he want ? Once you explained that you are looking for your ‘One’, everything was so easy for them. All they need to know is what your fantasy is – you want a woman to make your lunch ? you want her to be sexually available whenever you like ? you want her to adore you ? Those are easy to do.
    And then the competition narrows, because you are uncomfortable with such a blatantly transactional relationship, so we have to gloss it with some fantasy speak. This is where your Olya/Tanya/Natalya gets ahead of the pack. You don’t want to go with some hottie 21 year old because once you get home everyone will know its a purely transactional thing, its just prostitution, and that’s not a good look. So you go with a more mature, but still totally fuckable, divorcee, who has enough life experience – I assume she can hold a good conversation – to create the ‘deep and meaningful’ thing, and, also important, pass that off in your home town, with your relatives. A 21 year old hottie would be just too obvious.
    Once the transactional thing was established, then the rest is just negotiating, bargaining. So what you think is red pill is just being a hard arse in the negotiation – in Italy we WILL have sex. Sorry, is nothing red pill here, you are just being a hard arse. Bit like you are being right now with her after the computer thing.
    This, Mitch, is why you HAVE to learn game.
    The point about game is that it allows you to change the rules, to make sex not transactional, but about attraction. That is a whole different world, you have still to enter that world.
    So, once you’ve extracted yourself from this cluster, hopefully financially intact, and have read Rollo’s books and this blog, then, the journey can begin. Learn game, everything starts from there.

  35. Discovering the girl you’re with is secretly meeting/chatting/hanging out with some other guy.

    Often it’s because she’s “helping” him.

    I’ve encountered this situation several times even though the girl I was banging was having the best sex of her life (she claimed) but the guy was generally a loser provider type.

    What do you do? If you’re a guy spinning plates like me…you walk.

    You call her out ( which I’ve done) and you look weak, jealousy, insecure.

    Mitch has not entangled himself with a woman who’s online shopping despite the outward appearance of 5 months (cough) of bliss.

    I now lay down the law early with plates. One plate wants to join my Latin dance class. No. I just explain clearly it’s my place and my hobby.

    The reality is I’ve brought girls who always ended up getting hit on by some loser and who lapped up the attention because that’s what women do when you take them out and ignore them because you’re having a good time.

    There’s so much of an awakening by Mitch in his post it’s easy to claim he’s a troll or naive or lacking in any red pill understanding.

    His biggest mistake was naively believing his situation was different and a bit of game could change he outcome.

    Game is a tool but attitude is the driver.

    This woman starts to see through Mitch…he tells her not to worry about making lunch at 1am instead of saying thanks and while you’re down there please do xyz…

    She’s playing along until someone better comes along.

    The wider issue for Mitch is how do you maintain your higher value.

  36. Cult-I-Vader

    The Skype incident is typical. Mitch blew it out of proportion. It’s a shit test.

    Nope. In your case you naturally met your girl and developed actual attraction. Mitch never did. It was a business deal from the off – for her. She ain’t shit testing, she’s marketing.

  37. @ ASD

    Vetting properly is important, because failure to do so will always result in ” surprises “. Every time a man says that he had ” no idea “, it points to a shoddy vetting job and he’ll confidently blame the woman for being deceitful. That deceit is evident if you look for it’s display towards others and in various circumstances.

    There’s no doubt that without vetting, shit will go wrong. It’s a skill set that all men need to develop.

    Or else you’ll go out to buy a 4 wheel drive extended cab heavy duty pickup and come home with a smart car. Lol, and you’ll be shocked and surprised when you can’t tow a 22 foot boat with it.

    Red Pill, Game, Vetting.

  38. Re: vetting.

    Perhaps in my youth I was too cautious about women / girls. Perhaps my standards were too high, perhaps I was buffering as Rollo would say but part of me nagging in the back of my brain pretty much always said, “Don’t stick your dick into something that you wouldn’t be prepared to have a baby with”.

    I broke that rule of mine a few times and thankfully it didn’t cost me. Right from the get go I just intuitively felt there was always the risk that no matter if I wrapped it or she was on the pill, that there was that outside chance there’d be a baby and I’d have to own that shit, so it better be worth it, at least from a genetic material perspective.

    It just always seemed that those few moments of pleasure could end in a very long hangover so the juice better be worth the squeeze.

  39. @dirka
    Really good post. There’s a lot in there that recognize. But some I don’t. This for example:

    You are way out of your league with her, emotionally, intellectually, culturally… you are
    I don’t this is actually true at all, but I’m curious to know you think that.
    I am beginning to really recognize the sheer all-consuming depth of my beta-ness. And I know that you guys can all see that, because you’re helping me see it. I’ll talk more about my parents relationship later, but RP is starting to explain a lot of things I used to scratch my head about.

    This is what I’m going to do. I’m going to see if I can turn it around. I been thoroughly warned, so thank you. Any Advice directed to that end is welcome. But don’t waste anymore time and energy trying to convince me to cut bait.

    Thanks again guys, really. Maybe someday I’ll be able to pay it forward.

  40. This is what I’m going to do. I’m going to see if I can turn it around. I been thoroughly warned, so thank you. Any Advice directed to that end is welcome. But don’t waste anymore time and energy trying to convince me to cut bait.

    This is why I said trolling… You refuse to see reality. There is nothing to “turn around”… the premise is false. You have nothing… At best you could “start here”… but even that program is seriously, nearly incontrovertibly compromised. I’m talking 99.999999% fucked.

    Have you read Rollo’s book The Rational Male? Come clean.

  41. Actually – let us know the date she can get her green card Mitch and we can wager on the over under on when she decides to get “unhappy”… I put the line at 3 months and bet the under.

  42. Aaaaaand… for the sake of clarity and predictive value. I bet the time leading up to that Green Card date is going to be all sunshine and lollipops and cray sex… such that you will be back here – BEFORE GC DAY Zero – crowing about how we all were wrong…

  43. @Blax

    Vetting will let you discover if a woman has a police record, whether she is or has been married, what her diagnosed medical and psychological issues are (assuming that she releases her reports to you), where she has lived, where she went to school, for whom she has worked, and those kinds of things.

    Vetting won’t let you discover a woman’s sexual/relationship wiring…you just have to know that or read about it in Rollo’s books. AWALT

    Vetting won’t let you discover whether a woman is BPD. Those broads hide it well.

    Vetting won’t help you discover that you have issues (such as buying in to egalitarianism) that you need to fix.

    Vetting won’t fix your investment in the Blue Pill.

    Vetting won’t give you confidence or Game.

    Vetting won’t give you relationship skills.

    Vetting MAY help you discover that a girl will mateguard herself and has been properly trained.

    Vetting has serious limitations and you need to have the skills to fix/train a girl. That can overcome a lot of vetting deficiencies.

    Skills + vetting

    The problem most men have isn’t vetting…it’s a lack of Red Pill understanding and skills.

    Let’s look at examples from our fellow commenters. Ton did an awesome job of vetting, but being away killed his marriage. Your problem in your first marriage wasn’t vetting, but your Blue Pill mindset. By contrast, by her own admission, Liz was a basket case when she got married and her man trained/fixed her. In my case, Mrs. Gamer was a free agent and not prone to branch swinging…an odd duck…she was well trained by her father to mateguard herself. I don’t know how you vet a woman like Mrs. Gamer. Even in her case, church counselors advised her to not divorce. A dice roll.

    What fixed my marriage wasn’t vetting…it was Dread and game skills.

  44. Mitch, manage the situation and don’t overreact. You went in with eyes wide and your purple slowly turns red, but stay calm and game. She married YOU, and you admit it she has been wonderful. So she is shit testing you, that is what it is. That is all it is. So figure that piece out, its the next puzzle.

    You win the shit test by staying calm, staying strong, let the storms run their course, and Tomassi a little discussion of game would be useful.

    IB, you are just so angry. I don’t fully understand that. Women marry up, women shit test, women get all the goodies in divorce, no? Is it somehow wrong for men to be aware, to have ways of dealing with the crazy?

  45. Mitch – DON’T CUT BAIT! You game this and your relationship is stronger than ever. She shit tests you, you pass the test, your relationship is stronger. rinse and repeat. Learn the game, you are in now. You are married.

    It’s what she wants at the end of the day. You CAN DO IT, just learn the game part of red. It will be the next step. Tomassi has many many thoughts on the issue. He no way thinks you should cut bait. I know it.

  46. “This is what I’m going to do. I’m going to see if I can turn it around. I been thoroughly warned, so thank you. Any Advice directed to that end is welcome. But don’t waste anymore time and energy trying to convince me to cut bait.”

    ….. sooo she convinced you of her fidelity by agreeing to anal? Well, I hope you enjoyed it …. and that the squeeze was worth the juice you will be forced to give her in future.

    I look forward to Part 3 of this series.

  47. @ ASD

    True vetting will tell you everything there is to know about any woman. The ” trick “, for lack of a better term, is learning to read the signs. And vetting takes time, requiring a man to turn off his feelz and replace them with observation sans judgement. It will be what it reveals itself to be. Now you get to choose and decide how to proceed.

    Vetting does not replace red pill understanding at all. That’s never my point. It’s not about police records, lol. The signs are always present, yet sometimes microscopic. Your skill in vetting will identify problems and even allow you to draw them out of her. Crazy bitches cannot hide their crazy if you are paying attention and not looking at her boobs or being distracted by blowjobs every 4 hours. You should look deeper…. After you blow your load of course.

  48. “I don’t [think] this is actually true at all . . .”

    That’s why you’ve gotten to play bad example in two articles – so far.

    “I’m going to see if I can turn it around.”

    Three articles is the charm?

  49. @ Agent P

    That’s something I’ve always thought, any woman you’re having sex with could become the mother of your kid(s). Yet, we’ll still gamble a little. Just don’t develop a gambling addiction.

    Pink Floyd, One Slip.

    ” a momentary lapse of reason, that binds a life to a life, the one regret we will never forget, there’ll be no sleeping here tonight “.

    Or something like that. Great song for men.

  50. Mitch – DON’T CUT BAIT! You game this and your relationship is stronger than ever. She shit tests you, you pass the test, your relationship is stronger. rinse and repeat. Learn the game, you are in now. You are married.

    ST – come with me into the future…

    Ukrainicorn: [Green Card in wallet] Mitch. I love you so much but I really miss Odessa. My family miss me. I need to be there. You don’t understand.
    Mitch: [standing firm and passing “shit test”] My life is here, your life is here now.
    Ukrainicorn: I’m sorry Mitch but if you really loved me you would understand.
    Mitch: I do love you baby.
    Ukrainicorn: You are such a great guy Mitch. I have a Ukrainian bank account, you can just deposit my living expenses into it. I look forward to you visiting a few times a year [wink wink].

    Beep Beep

    Ukrainicorn: That’s my car. Bye Mitch. You are such a great guy.
    Mitch: I love you baby… see you soon.

    Ukrainicorn hops in black car… heads to NYC East Village. Gets job in SOHO boutique or real estate office. Sets up shop for Bigger Fish.

  51. Meta
    American men have grown up with Disney versions of White Knight stories that include twu wuv foh EVAH. That includes you, Mitch, it specifically includes you. Yeah, I know, at 50 you’re all over that stuff, except that you are not – using a term such as “The ONE” is a huge tell. It’s like walking up to a gaming table bragging about how much money you can afford to lose.

    Eastern Europeans, espeically Russians and Ukranians have a different culture that goes back just as long. Who is “Baba Yaga” and why does her house sit on a chicken foot? What does a “princess” look like in old Russia? Plus the last 100 years had a profound effect in many cultural ways.

    Mitch might want to pay attention to those men who have real experience with more than one Russian / Ukranian woman, rather than ignore. Seems to me they might have some good advice. The closest analogy in US culture might just be the “soiled doves” of the late 19th century in the West – prostitutes who gave up the business to be a ranch wife / farm wife / etc.

    @asd
    You might try asking Blaximus what he means by the word “vetting”, rather than making up something in your head and sperging out about it. Just saying.

  52. Mitch
    I’m going to see if I can turn it around. I been thoroughly warned, so thank you. Any Advice directed to that end is welcome. But don’t waste anymore time and energy trying to convince me to cut bait.

    At first I wondered if you were the same man from last year. But now there’s no doubt. This know-it-all, “I don’t gotta learn much from you suckers” mindset is what got you back here. You were sure last year that your Ukranicorn was the real deal, the ONE. Then something happened that paniced you & here you are. Now the old Mitch is back, and knowing it all again.

    It’s likely that part 3 of your story will be something to see.

  53. kfg
    “If you make your notes in a blank book where your thoughts can spread out and breath a bit, then when you are done you will find that where you started out with one book you now have two. One written by the original author and one written by yourself.”
    On point
    https://www.selfauthoring.com/
    Mitch
    Keep at it man each day push a little passed where you where before for you. It all comes down to you. We are just here to learn about thing’s are self’s as well.
    http://www.rooshv.com/you-did-this-to-me
    http://www.jack-donovan.com/axis/2017/02/we-are-not-brothers/

  54. @Mitch: “This is what I’m going to do. I’m going to see if I can turn it around. I been thoroughly warned, so thank you. Any Advice directed to that end is welcome. But don’t waste anymore time and energy trying to convince me to cut bait.”

    Dude, trust me on this. Before you see if you can turn it around, get yourself a mini voice recorder and place it under her car seat, somewhere in the house near a phone. You can set it to record only when it hears noise (neat little thing), so they work great. You’ll know the truth of how your woman feels about you. Once you TRULY know the truth, THEN see if you want to turn it around. What you are doing here is making a decision when you don’t truly know how she feels. Sure you found a skype message that indicates her intentions may be wishy washy, but you still don’t truly know, do you? Be honest.

    When you hear your wife talk cruelly about you in her own words, only then will it sink in. I overheard my wife say that if it weren’t for the kids, she’s leave my F#cking ass. Prior to that moment, I thought just as you did.

  55. Mitch: sleuth a bit harder: did she leave the bed to make lunch or use making lunch as an excuse to finish a tingle session via Skype/text?

    A corollary to “be attractive/don’t be unattractive” is don’t be a fraud/don’t be defrauded.

  56. Donovan is looking to start the world, but is still looking for a place to start from. At the moment he is facing the problem of neo-paganism in that it isn’t really his world. There is, therefore, an inherent artificiality about it.

    It’ll be interesting to see where he ends up, although it is where his great grandchildren end up that really matters.

  57. @asd
    You might try asking Blaximus what he means by the word “vetting”, rather than making up something in your head and sperging out about it. Just saying.

    I don’t think True Vetting is a thing in LTR Game. Cause things change. I think Mitch has it easy because he’s still in the short run. But he still needs Game and more Red Pill Awareness.

    A lot of Rollo’s older circa 2012 essays in the category of Relationship Game can shed light on the Red Pill aspects of this.

    Including these two:

    https://therationalmale.com/2012/07/16/value-added/

    https://therationalmale.com/2012/07/13/is-seduction-real/

    And then the essay Relational Equity:

    Of course vetting for long term relationships ahead of time is more of a fools game than going with a flow and making a decision to rigorously vet with a clear head after an 18 month relationship (which I presume what Blax is advocating for–the clear headed one). The following deals with early, young men who vet. And in the following passage, the White Knight non-clear headed vetting is not what Blax is talking about:

    The Rational Male

    All of that may sound like I’m excusing men from the equation, I’m not. As I detailed in The Threat, when men progressively become more aware of their sexual market value, the better their capacity develops to assess long term investment potential with women. The trouble with this model, in its present form, is that the phase at which men are just becoming aware of their true long term value to women (usually around age 30) is almost exactly the phase (just pre-Wall) in which women hope to press men unaware of their SMV into their long term provisioning schema. As this relates to men, most spend the majority of their teens and 20’s pursuing women, following the dicktates of their biological impulses, and to varying degrees of success learn from experience what really seems like women’s duplicity or fickleness. So it comes as a breath of fresh air for the average (see Beta) guy to finally encounter what he believes is a woman who’s “down to earth” and seems genuinely concerned with hearth and family at age 29. Her past character, her very nature, even her single-mommyness can be overlooked and/or forgiven in light of finding such a rare jewel.

    There’s a new breed of White Knight in the manosphere who love to enthusiastically promote the idea of rigorously vetting women as potential wives. It sounds like virtue. For serial monogamists playing the ‘Good Guy’ card, it sounds so satisfying to lay claim to having experience and integrity enough to be a good judge or authority of what will or will not do for his ‘exacting standards’. This is really a new form of Beta Game; “look out ladies, I’ve been through the paces so if you’re not an approximate virgin and know how to bake a hearty loaf of bread, this guy is moving on,..” and on, and on, and on. All any of this really amounts to is a better form of identification Game, because ultimately a profession of being a Good Guy is still an attempt to be what he expects his ideal woman would want – a good judge (of her) character.

    Know this right now, no man (myself included) in the history of humanity has ever fully or accurately vetted any woman he married. And certainly not any guy who married prior to the age of 30 or had fewer than 1 LTR in his past. It’s not that high school sweethearts who last a lifetime don’t exist, it’s that no man can ever accurately determine how the love of his life will change over the course of that lifetime.

    Right about now, I can hear the “wow, that’s some pretty raw shit there Mr. Tomassi” from the gallery, and I agree, but ask the guy on his second divorce how certain he was that he’d done his due diligence with his second wife based on all his past experience. Bear this truth in mind, you do not buy into a good marriage or LTR, you create one, you build one. Your sweet little Good Girl who grew up in the Amish Dutch Country is just as hypergamous as the club slut you nailed last night. Different girls, different contexts, same hypergamy. You may have enough experience to know a woman who’d make a good foundation, but you ultimately build your own marriage/monogamy based on your own strengths or dissolve it based on inherent flaws – there are no pre-fab marriages.

  58. @rugby11: Mate, just paste the link of his insta-slut page. All this scrolling to read comments is hurting my fingers.

  59. @ST

    >So she is shit testing you, that is what it is. That is all it is. So figure that piece out, its the next puzzle.

    No, a shit-test would mean she’s attracted to him and be overt.

    Secretly texting another dude is NOT shit-testing, it’s hypegamy and when that happens, the attraction is draining from the relationship.

    I wish there was a better way to “fix” this but there isn’t. It’s a lost cause since they’re already married:

    1. He leaves…she claims mental abuse and stress and hardship: immigrant, jealous American husband…you know the drill.

    2. He stays and games her: it may work to stop the drain but then she’ll start overly shit-testing: “Get your own dinner”… He amps up the asshole and she already has an alternative beta orbiter.

    3. He finds a few plates: she claims mental abuse, divorces him: womanizer, immigrant, just trying to be a good wife—“Once I got up at 1am to make him dinner…and he does this to me!??”

  60. kfg
    It’ll be interesting to see where he ends up, although it is where his great grandchildren end up that really matters.

    Jack Donovan was pretty open about his homosexuality a few years back. Unless that’s changed, great grandchildren would be rather unlikely.

  61. Sentient,
    Might as well get that spreadsheet out and start keeping score.

    @ST – thanks bro! Appreciate the support. I’m not cutting bait, not today anyway. I’m my own man, and if I end up being Exhibit A for what Not to do, then so be it. Maybe that will be of some use to others. I’m not doing this to prove anything to anyone- I’m doing it because it’s my life and I want it to be the best it can be. All the RP mastery in the world cannot possibly give anyone the knowledge and insight to dictate the specific path for another man.

  62. Mitch

    and start keeping score. – What month and year for GC? I’ll plug it in. Not kidding – you should come out with it now for “keeping it real” in Post 3 and 4.

    I’d also examine how much Catholic guilt, works and martyr complex are driving your behaviors.

  63. @sentient
    I don’t think you read people very well – at all. And I’m guessing that you have inherent strengths that are very different from mine. So, the choices you would need to make as you go through life with women are very different than those I would make. Theoretically, assuming I ever get to RP mastery, we would implement the exact same RP principles and techniques but differently.

    Because all people are individuals! In addition to being subject to the laws of RP.

    But no, I have not yet read Rollo’s book. It’s on order from Amazon. Probably should get it today.

    @ads
    Great examples of *individual* women.

    @blax
    +1000 on vetting

  64. Mitch: Martyrdom? How many martyrs did you learn from? If you really are called to be exempli causa I’d suggest a different hill on which to battle — how many monuments do you see: “M. was martyred while holding firm his belief in the good intentions of his spouse”?

  65. Sentient
    Lol! Don’t have a date for GC, immigration is slow these days. Should get conditional temporary in the next few months. Permanent GC awarded two years later after establishing the marriage is still. I will be holding that ace for quite some time, and that’s good it buys me time with easy dread. At the moment she’s terrified.

  66. Mitch

    “But no, I have not yet read Rollo’s book.”

    Huh? How could I have known??? You’re right I am terrible at reading people.

    So out with the GC date and we will see who read what when…

  67. Mitch

    OK then here we have it…

    Should get conditional temporary in the next few months. Permanent GC awarded two years later after establishing the marriage is still.

    All behaviors must be observed through this lens…

  68. @ SJF

    I don’t think I disagree with Rollo that much. I certainly agree that good relationships are built.

    But I’ve seen way too many men do shitty jobs of vetting over my lifetime to downplay it’s importance. many guys just don’t pay all that much attention. Even here it’s said by ASD that BPD chicks hide their crazy, I assume he means that men can’t tell. I disagree.

    Let me try a hypothetical based on a few experiences I’ve had over the years to see if it helps my point.

    Girlfriend is unhappy at her job.

    Scenario #1: she says ” I really hate my job, but I need to hold on to it until I can find another. So I’ll just go to work and do what I’m told and not make any waves until a better opportunity comes along ” .

    Alarm rating on a scale of 1 to 5 ( 5 being high alarm ) is about a 2.5.

    Scenario #2: she says ” I really hate my job because my boss is an insufferable asshole. I wish someone would shoot him in the head, lol. I’m going to use him and make him think I like him and the shitty job. Same with my dumb ass coworkers. I got them all believing that I’m their friend. This way I can stay there u til I decide to dump them all and get another job. Fuck ’em amirite? I’m quitting without notice. Lol, they’ll be fucked.”.

    Alarm rating a solid 5.

    You’re getting a photograph of how her mind works, even though it’s got nothing directly to do with you. She’s just sharing her thoughts with you.

    My idea of vetting includes paying attention to how she thinks and what her motivations are. It will be more apparent when she’s upset, especially at others.

    So what’s gonna happen when she’s really upset with you?

    Red pill and game can blunt her reactions when applied correctly, but initial vetting on your part is to make your job easier by being more aware of the potential problems and maybe finding better options. Women talk a lot, and they will explicate and demonstrate volumes just going about their daily lives. Don’t ignore this, particularly in the beginning – BEFORE shit gets all serious and your feelz get entangled.

  69. How do I know if I am eligible to File Form I751 Petition to Remove the Conditions of my Green Card?

    If you are still married, file Form I-751 jointly with your U.S. citizen or permanent resident spouse through whom you obtained your conditional permanent status.

    If you have dependent children on a K-2 visa who obtained their conditional permanent status when you did and they entered the United States within 90-days of your arrival, then you can include their names and A-numbers in Part 5 of your petition form.

    If the children obtained their conditional status 90 days after you obtained or adjusted your status or if the conditional permanent parent dies, they have to file Form I751 separately in order to remove their conditional status.

    In case you, the conditional permanent resident, do not file jointly, you may apply for a waiver if:

    You can show that you entered the marriage with honesty and good intentions, but your spouse subsequently died;

    You can show that you entered the marriage in good faith, but the marriage ended because of divorce or annulment;

    You can show that you entered the marriage in good faith and have remained married, but have been battered or subjected to extreme cruelty by your U.S. citizen or permanent resident spouse; or

    The termination of your status and removal would result in extreme hardship.

    In cases when you are asking for a waiver, proof to support your request will be very important.
    Example, a copy of your divorce decree or police, court or medical proof that you were abused or a death certificate showing that you spouse died.

    so the next few months before the conditional is issued is the crucial period

  70. Martyrdom!?? Good grief.

    I will say it again, I am not doing this for anyone else but myself. I am not. I am putting my experience out for others to read, *primarily* because it helps ME. Standing naked in front of other people that you trust – and for all my frustration with some, I do trust you guys even the naysayers are incredibly useful- allows me to see myself faster than anything I know of. I have done this in other contexts, and it’s extremely powerful tool for self knowledge and personal growth. That’s all.

  71. subjected to extreme cruelty by your U.S. citizen or permanent resident spouse

    A “controlling” husband who limits his wife’s dating might fit this bill…

  72. blax – I really like your specific examples of how to read a situation; they are direct and explicit and thus have the clarity some find most useful; not enough time for me to get caught up untangling riddles and stringing along some overly Socratic approach to making a point

    sure, vetting isn’t the only thing, but it’s certainly going to determine the kind of foundation everything else will be built upon and for that, is paramount; if vetting isn’t mastered, a man will always be in damage control

    keep ’em coming

  73. “Permanent GC awarded two years later after establishing the marriage is still. I will be holding that ace for quite some time, and that’s good it buys me time with easy dread.” … you don’t have 2 years to play the dread game … you only have time until she has a strong grip on the next “martyr”. You will find out soon when she will ask you to drop her off at her new lovers’.

    “At the moment she’s terrified.” …. and I bet you are too.

  74. @AR: “Jack Donovan was pretty open about his homosexuality a few years back. Unless that’s changed, great grandchildren would be rather unlikely.”

    And I have mentioned it myself a few times, where it was relevant.

    There are two levels to my comment:

    1. There is no tight connection between (to use his term) androphilia and failing to reproduce. I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of gays had children. Sexual contact is not even necessary.

    2. If he fails to reproduce, I have called into question what he is attempting to do. Exactly what sort of world is he starting without a posterity?

  75. Sentient
    Re Rollos book. Touché. Maybe not terrible, but not that good.

    Noted about conditional GC, I do recall reading that, but good reminder that my ace is strongest right now. If I manage things reasonably well, combined with my reading of her, I think the risk of needing to defend DV charges is reasonable.

  76. mitch is a grown man, commenters here have said their piece and so has mitch

    he’s made his choice, no more nagging, let it play out

    that being said, sentient, put me down for a sawbuck on under 3mos after her GC toehold is secured lol

  77. Mitch: I’m my own man, and if I end up being Exhibit A for what Not to do, then so be it. Maybe that will be of some use to others. I’m not doing this to prove anything to anyone- I’m doing it because it’s my life and I want it to be the best it can be.

    Martyrdom is what you are choosing. The suggestion is two-fold: you can choose your ending and you probably need to revisit “best”.

Speak your mind

%d bloggers like this: