Divorce Incorporated

What I’m going to get into today is going to be kind of dark. I’m doing this not to exacerbate any guy’s negative feelings, but to shed some light on the reality of how divorce operates in the United States as well as many other western societies. A lot of guys tend to focus on the logistics, the laws, the process of how a divorce proceeds. Much of what I see coming from Men’s Rights advocates about divorce centers on the need for legal and institutional reform of the process in their misguided hopes of creating a more ‘equal’ state between men and women. From what I understand, MRA’s primary hope (for most every issue they address) is that this reform can come from a top-down approach – changing the system to be more fair – rather than confronting the fact that these laws, divorce and others, are manifestations of an endemic social dynamic that is based on a fundamentally unfair, unequal interrelation between the sexes.

What I’m going to focus on here is dissecting this process, but doing so from a Red Pill aware perspective. While it may be the purview of the MRM that this process is fundamentally corrupt and in need of reform (I agree), what they willingly ignore is the root level inequalities that are part of men and women’s evolved differences that are the source of this process. This isn’t meant to be some take-down of the MRM; I find their causes worthy enough, but I believe their approach to solving them to be fundamentally flawed due to a refusal to accept the core, evolved differences in men and women and a stubborn refusal to reject the ideals of egalitarian equalism that the feminism they claim to hate is ostensibly founded on.

This system is designed to create conflict, but that conflict is rooted in the presumption that men are always at fault in it. This is why there can never be an equalist solution to correcting the endemic problems of modern divorce procedures.

At present I have a personal friend I’m counseling who is in the opening phases of this process. He and his soon to be Ex are also in ‘marriage therapy’. First thing I ask, “is it a man or woman therapist?” He says woman. I say, you’re fucked; start planning your exit now.

He agrees, but still has that Blue Pill hope he’s not wasting his money (she’s a SAHM) and they’ll be able to negotiate some mutually amicable feigning of her desire for him. When we invest ourselves in something we’ve accepted is supposed to be effective we’ll hold on to hope that it will because there’s a part of us (especially in idealistic men) that doesn’t like to think we are able to be conned. This is a very well studied psych phenomenon. We convince ourselves that we ‘got something out of’ an experience regardless of it being a provably bad investment. We like to believe that in all labor there is profit, but reality shows us, quite often, that this simply isn’t true.

I gave him a list of things to keep in his head as he was going to these counseling sessions, but I also told him the truth that marriage counseling is almost always ‘last stop before toll’ and that he needs to be careful now because his wife will eagerly use this therapist’s testimony to destroy his character at a later date. That’s the profit model for therapists in divorce proceedings. They’re getting paid when you’re coming and going.

I told him she will turn into someone he never thought she could become and most of it will be at the prodding of their therapist and her attorney (who he’ll also be paying). It’s in all of their best interests that they create a monster of him. The male anger bias I write about here will be the primary basis for his character assassination.

Anything even remotely, positively masculine or Alpha is still a ‘man being a man’ and this can always be reinterpreted as potentially aggressive or violent. In a feminine-primary social order where feminized men and women are taught that men are inherently evil and prone to anger and violence (the “culture” of masculinity) there’s an army of women and White Knight sympathizing men who want nothing more than to stick it to the ‘man’ symbolically. And when they draw a paycheck from doing so they’re all the more eager. Add to this that they feel a sense of moral justification in “making the world a better place” by burning him in an effigy of all men and you get to where we are now. We presently live in a social order that presumes any masculinity is “toxic” or “hyper” masculinity. So disassociated from anything positive has society become with regard to conventional masculinity that just the term is now masculinity is a negative connotation.

Needless to say this will be the starting point from which a soon-to-be-divorced man will have his undoing begin. So prevalent is the presumption of abuse on a man’s part that even the most saintly father can be remade into a secret monster. It’s just ‘how guys are’ and this presumption also serves as a point of justification for women, and Blue Pill male sympathizers, to feel okay about pillorying him.

Yes, I understand that there is at least a reportedly higher incidence of men being the abuser in domestic cases, but we also have to understand that the definition of “abuse” has been rendered so ambiguous that most men don’t realize virtually anything they do in a domestic confrontation can fit the definition of “abuse”. Just raising one’s voice is enough to qualify as psychological abuse. Denying a woman access to money also fits a new definition of abuse. I once counseled a guy who had been taken to jail for snatching the car keys away from his drunk wife so as to prevent her from driving drunk. She called the police and, as you likely know, the man is always the party removed from the home by police. Snatching the keys was enough to qualify his removal. 5 months later he’s living with his parents (at 43) and paying rent on a home and car payments on a car only his now ex is allowed to occupy and drive.

I know how my friend’s story is going to end. I’m doing what I can to give him fair warning – it’d be better for him to completely pull up stakes and remove himself from the situation than stick around and ‘try to make it work’ because the longer he lingers the more ammunition she and the therapist potentially get. I think this is also the profit model; keep the Blue Pill chump husband around the house for as long as it takes to build him up as a stereotypical ‘man’ and then escalate the most marginal conflict as a ‘typical’ domestic violence incident and he’s gone. If you watch the above documentary on the divorce industry you’ll see how many lucrative profit opportunities there are at every stage of divorce; and there is no incentive to dissuade divorce profiteers from doing anything different. And, as I stated earlier, there are many ready-made social and moral conventions available to help them justify their profits.

Old Books and New Books

‘No one cares how mean your ex was, how unfair she was to you and so on … at the end of the day, the system can’t right wrongs, they only process your case’

The above and following  quote was from an article in the National Post, Family court advice for men, from one who’s made it through;

I’ve had hundreds and hundreds of notes; on a gender breakdown, probably 80 percent are from men, 20 percent from women.

I’ve heard from family court lawyers, some of whom are angry at my suggestions that fathers get the tough end of the stick in child custody cases (though the actual evidence is reasonably clear that they do), some of whom say “the whole system is B.S … one of the first things out of my mouth when I see someone is, ‘What’s your budget and how much does he/she dislike you?’” I’ve heard from judges and former judges and psychologists and counsellors.

Without exception, they agree that the system is beyond broken.

What we have, fundamentally, in the state of modern divorce is a conflict between old books social contracts serving as the ethical basis of a new books resource transfer from men to women (Thomas Ball even described it as such). Really this conflict is at the root of much of what Red Pill awareness (from the social perspective of intersexual dynamics) describes, but in this instance there’s an entire social complex that influences policy and profit. Judges, attorneys, psychologists and counselors all make a very good living from this fundamental conflict; and if you watch the Divorce Incorporated documentary I linked you’ll see that there’s no incentive to ever change that profitable conflict at any stage.

However, all of the people involved in even a typical western divorce are all subject to the belief sets that the Feminine Imperative has predisposed them to about men and women. We presume a default state of victimhood is to be applied to a woman and the benefit of that victimhood doubt runs deep. We see it evolve into the kangaroo court systems that govern what we’re told to believe is an endemic ‘rape culture’ on college campuses – up to and beyond denying a man his civil rights.

We’re taught that any slight appearance of abuse towards a woman is an opportunity to teach any man doing so a lesson, but should a man be the victim of the same abuse? Well, he probably had it coming. The Feminine Imperative has (and still is in some senses) prepared women and Blue Pill men to believe that women are untouchable; always to be believed, by default, in their victim status no matter the circumstance.

Now we can expand this presumption to every party involved in a divorce proceeding. We get female therapists whose livelihoods depend on following the victimhood of women and demonization of men (and masculinity) script the Feminine Imperative has laid out for them for most of their lives. We get Blue Pill Alphas eager to prove their authority by punishing any man who might remind them of their asshole fathers or who fits their idea of what the imperative has taught him is a “misogynist”. The imperative plays to the natural ‘protector’ impulse of these men. We get well-conditioned attorneys, counsellors and judges ready to follow that same script by legally enacting the retribution and restitution upon which feminism has always been based.

But underneath all of this we have the fundamental inequalities in ideology between what the old books social contract expects of men while the divorce industry enforces, almost unilaterally male, punishment based on a new books social paradigm to better empower women – presumably to right the past wrongs they believe were endemic in that old books paradigm. What we have today are new books divorce and marital laws based on those old books presumptions of men’s evils, indiscretions and addressing the toll it allegedly took on women. The result is a system that is designed to psychologically, financially and personally ruin any man whose idealism led him to believe that men and women share some mutually recognized concept of love; enough to compel him to a lifetime commitment in modern marriage. It is a system calculated to destroy the same Blue Pill conditioned men who will eagerly stand up to defend their ego-investments in it.

The common refrain to this is always “just don’t get married”, and it is precisely this system’s goal to disincentivize long term commitment between the sexes so that this response is the only logical one. Thus, we get women spending small fortunes to freeze their eggs in the hopes that one day some man will be foolishly idealistic enough to look past all the inherent life-threatening risks marriage and divorce uniquely disposes men to. Thus, we get old books moralists berating men for wanting to prolong their adolescence (never mind women doing so is considered empowerment) by avoiding the dangers of marriage that they’ve been smart enough to understand, or have been a party to in one way or another.

In my next essay I’ll be addressing the misguided opinion of some ‘stand up’ Purple Pill moralists that the Red Pill is “just for guys who are obsessed with sex and make getting laid their life’s mission”. I’ll elaborate on why this is simply a distraction from the much larger meta-scope of Red Pill awareness and intersexual dynamics. However, understanding how the divorce industry is based on the same dynamics the Red Pill has described for a decade and a half is a good illustration of why the Red Pill isn’t just about men basing their lives on getting laid. This system is fundamentally unegalitarian and unequal, and the designed imbalances are entirely founded in Red Pill intersexual principles. This is why the MRM will never be successful in their hopes of a top down institution of social change. The laws and the social imperatives that crush men are symptoms of a deeper problem that requires a bottom up changing of men’s minds about women and themselves.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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SFC Ton
4 years ago

I went to jail for contempt of court 3 times when I was going through the grinder. Right proud of that myself

SFC Ton
4 years ago

The 1st rat bastard lawyer I hired billed me 15 mins to email me how much money was left on the despoit I have him

If I am ever Ton the Great, King of the Confederate States, lawyers will be the second group of people put against a wall

Donegoner
Donegoner
4 years ago

@Rollo The problem is without a solution because there is no better alternative out there for raising a family and you have stated many times that this is the catch22 of a man who wants children. How long will it take for men in this tiny revolution to reclaim their families? I have had zero success convincing anybody and I was a zealot when I first came through the fires of divorce, but no man would here it. i was the loony divorcee who was mad at all women and taking it out on them one non-age-appropriate pussy at a… Read more »

Donegoner
Donegoner
4 years ago

*no man would hear of it*

I get in a hurry. Read for years but rarely participate. Good to be amongst the breathren, but what really is the goal. Not trying to be cynical, but I hate complainers who have no solutions (myself), too many of them in media and at large. I might help one guy with one difficult situation and that does matter, but how do I affect change

newlyaloof
4 years ago

@Rollo, sorry, yeah that part of my full comment was not thought out as I’ve already watched that video a few times. Just curious if the red pill is making a dent.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@BV As a follow-up: how many alpha or sigma male marriage counselors are out there? That would be zero. I know of one who’s at least aware of the Red Pill and he gave us a list of things not to do when fighting…of course, Mrs. Gamer broke all of them and disposed of the list after I pointed it out, lol. I found the list amusing and Mrs. Gamer’s response as well. The list was also educational for me, as the counselor no doubt intended. I went to exactly one session and it was thoroughly helpful because of the… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Not trying to be cynical, but I hate complainers who have no solutions (myself), too many of them in media and at large. Donegoner Solutions.. Well a lot was thrown at the wall here last year… some contrived a devious plan where they would have children but never marry. Alas it turns out once you have kids you Sir, ( always Sir) are on the hook. even if the kid isn’t yours… You might skate on alimony, have a chance on assets (but chancy depending on living arrangements, jurisdictions, ahem “judicial discretion”…)… Gadzooks! It’s almost as if some grand plan… Read more »

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@Rollo Marriage is no longer a stable way to raise children when statistically men will have those children removed from his influence and become his financial liability. I read in the last few years that statistics show that if a woman is 27+ y.o when marrying., the marriage is a first marriage, and the couple is UMC, then there is an 80% chance of the couple not divorcing. Hypothetically, the marriage answer for best odds: Move into the UMC, marry a woman who is 27+ y.o. and has never been married. I say that the risk isn’t worth it, however.… Read more »

Donegoner
Donegoner
4 years ago

Gadzooks! hmm
“Have hand and never lose it” Is this from CH? Little help?
MY reconstruction? Hardly. I’m content, but naturally concerned for my sons.

Donegoner
Donegoner
4 years ago

Is UMC the Methodist Church? If so, wow, what a trade-off. Always seem to be unacceptable compromises.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Donegoner

It’s my prerequisite for marriage, or any LTR really… or ONS…. It is very versatile…

Hand – control of the relationship.

Donegoner
Donegoner
4 years ago

that’s strong, thanks. I think of the instructions to fighters. “protect yourselves at all times”

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Donegoner

I think of the instructions to fighters. “protect yourselves at all times” Nice.

This was a visual metaphor…

comment image

Related concept – Not All Lion Tamers are Created Equal ™ .

SFC Ton
4 years ago

Maybe lion tamer was a bad ass job back in the day. Maybe. Being married is a much dumber risk. The getting deal makes me laugh because I married a church going virgin who got a college degree etc etc.

0 fucking good, but blue pill dies hard and most men will marry because they won’t swing for the fences and demand a bitch live with him etc without the weight of the State behind her.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Ton

without the weight of the State behind her.

Watch out for the lump under the mattress…

Donegoner
Donegoner
4 years ago

There is no vetting because there is no character or moral agency to females. What they stand for today can change tomorrow. I like the strong hand policy. The girl I like best today is closer to my age and very traditional. Her backstory, though it includes divorce, stands up and that is the only thing I vetted besides her COUNT and that stands up as well. WHY are YOU divorced is the very first question. She loves to serve me, clear my plate, bring me a drink, cook. I make it clear to all females I start to spend… Read more »

Donegoner
Donegoner
4 years ago

Not getting all whimsical y’all, but first girl I’ve genuinely liked after cutting a wide swath over the last few years, first one to pass muster too.

Craiger247
Craiger247
4 years ago

Great post Rollo! As a divorced man, this brings back all the bad memories of my divorce, but thankfully the eventual exposure to RP writings such as RM. The point that resonates with me so much, whether its ex wife or gf, is how quickly women will change the narrative of your relationship, and who you are as a man. Keep in mind, these are the same women who painted me as violent when something as trivial/yet protective, as “grabbing an arm” to keep them from leaving and driving drunk during an argument. However, these are also the same women… Read more »

Blaximus
4 years ago

” I read in the last few years that statistics show that if a woman is 27+ y.o when marrying., the marriage is a first marriage, and the couple is UMC, then there is an 80% chance of the couple not divorcing. Hypothetically, the marriage answer for best odds: Move into the UMC, marry a woman who is 27+ y.o. and has never been married. I say that the risk isn’t worth it, however. But if you want to do it, rig the deck in your favor. @ asd I keep hearing some guys desperately trying to find some kind… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Donegal “There is no vetting …” And yet… “She loves to serve me, clear my plate, bring me a drink, cook. I make it clear to all females I start to spend regualr time with that I will not suffer feminism, that I will lead and make decisions for what direction we go, that I don’t care where they’ve travelled or what they’ve seen or what they know. I define very clearly a helpmeet and a lady. This girl I like now grew up poor with 10 siblings, hasn’t travelled to many places at all, didn’t graduate high school because… Read more »

SFC Ton
4 years ago

Legit

SFC Ton
4 years ago

That was to Blax

Freeholder
Freeholder
4 years ago

Well, I “won” the divorce. I got the kids (all 4 of them). I got the house. I got the better car. I got all the assets that she didn’t manage to sell/steal. She remarried immediately and has hatched multiple additional kids. I also got almost all of the debt. I got to pay for a nanny for 2 years. I had to wait for 2 years to get any child support. I lost 95 percent of my friends. I’ve had to change churches twice. Total cost, about 100K. 3 years later and the rebuilding is going nicely. I am… Read more »

Freeholder
Freeholder
4 years ago

BTW: Also part of “winning”. The arrest of the false DV charges has been expunged. Only had that on my record for a couple of years.

Donegoner
Donegoner
4 years ago

@Sentient Busted! I guess all of this qualifies as “vetting” of a sort. I was mistakenly defining it in the pedigree of church, family background, morals, child rearing, and so on in the context of someone’s previous comment. To answer your questions in order: Yes it was my first and only marriage Glossed over much and laid awake much wondering about those “not right” things for years while I sucked it up and tried harder. Forfeited skills for mistaken pussy access. then just the church and books and friends with the same tired and ineffective man-up and do more and… Read more »

Donegoner
Donegoner
4 years ago

The church of the west is a wasteland. I bought the lie of wanting to raise my family in the traditional and safe environment of the church.

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
4 years ago

I don’t know much about the subject matter here, but I do remember that in last year’s Great Marriage Thrash in these comments (right after the Great Looks Thrash), HABD had an utterly compelling post proving that if you want to have a family, then *despite* all the disadvantages of traditional marriage (that YaReally pointed out then, and Rollo and others have posted in this thread), it is still the best bet for men who want kids. He said it much better than me, but as I understood, his point is that if you are not married to the mother… Read more »

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@Blax

Your comment was superfluous.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Donegoner Had hand at first I think. I honestly believe it came naturally to me because of the way I handled females and relationships prior to marriage. This is pretty common… a reason why lots of guys got married. They had hand but didn’t really know it.. all was going so well. Why not? And funny thing is when you ACT naturally – i.e. to your true masculine nature and not a feminized/globalist/equalist ideal – shit works with women. and when you stop acting naturally it doesn’t. On Churchianity… well rope factories are working overtime now… for DOTR. They will… Read more »

Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Donegoner ” Had hand at first I think. I honestly believe it came naturally to me because of the way I handled females and relationships prior to marriage. It was eroded away quickly by CHURCH. It returned quickly with heavy doses of places like this and the shovel to the face of divorce” Thanks for making one of my points for me. I woulda told the CHURCH to go fuck itself. whatever doesn’t serve you or your purpose, or tries to put you under control, eliminate from your life asap, with extreme prejudice. I can go to a church… Read more »

Blaximus
4 years ago

” Your comment was superfluous.”

Well, at least it was some form of ” super “, so I’m good.

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
4 years ago

UMC is upper middle class not united methodist church.

Still money religeon location all irelevant frame is what counts and it needs to be the mans.

Gregor Samsa
Gregor Samsa
4 years ago

after suffering 12 years in a bad marriage, the $250k divorce feels like the best money I ever spent!

i am free.

let it go, make your life what you want it to be.

the surest way to prevent divorce is to not get married.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

@Sentient: ” . . . the Alpha PleasurePens of 2045… ” Alphas, or at least most of them, will not be housed in the same dormitories as Betas. Betas will get the Brutalist “project” tower. Alphas will get the landscaped “complex” with a weight room and tennis courts. That’s not part of the plan, that’s just how it will shake out. Which is pretty close to the male ideal anyway, and they’ll be getting laid like tile in the Big Houses, so they will have no particular incentive to buck the system. They’ll be the principle enforcers. @Palma Sailor: “I’m… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago
dr zipper
dr zipper
4 years ago

why is divorce so expensive?
.
.
.
.
.
’cause it’s worth it

Not Born This Morning
4 years ago

Scorched Earth! Maybe I should have made my pseudonym here “Scorched Earth”. Eh Rollo? This concerns your assignments of man’s idealism and woman’s opportunism. I am considering your thoughts as you express them and how they apparently differ from mine not antagonistically but comprehensively. You discuss romantic love and hypergamy at length and you project a personal desire to find a balance between the two. I agree with you in all that you express and need for a resolution. This is in no way intended to denigrate you or your work. It should not be considered a retort or argument… Read more »

Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Culum I still feel some kinda way over he Marriage/kids debate. It was a great opportunity to help some guys get information from varied sources and marriage status men, but it devolved into a ridiculous side show because a couple of staunch commenters *cough…Yareally…cough* could not be told anything that did not fit a particular crazy assed narrative that he was determined to push. Relentlessly. As for the ” disadvantages ” of marriage that Ya had a 50 bullet point listing, his solution avoided not many of the pitfalls he happily crowed about. IMO, that was the first time… Read more »

bluepillprofessor
4 years ago

Donegoner: >>I’m not gloating. Let me do it for both of us then. Fapping furiously over here. Seriously! You are giving some of us karmic boners of righteous length and girth. Everything said about divorce and marriage in this thread is absolutely true. >>On Divorce: Total and complete Stoicism is necessary for a man to pull off a successful divorce. This is why the “bad guys” who cheat always seem to get off light while the “nice guys” who really, really care get their flesh slowly roasted off their bodies. This is also why men so often “lose” badly in… Read more »

Blaximus
4 years ago

I’d rather slam my dick in my car door than even consider Marriage Counseling.

We can talk it out, up to a point, and I’m gonna do most of the talking.

No DV or anything, lol, but she will listen and pay attention –

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHIf7qXuk8g&w=854&h=480%5D

^^^ That’s just a joke ^^^

Lol, just lightening up the mood.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@all

My divorce comment did not address frame or getting sex from your wife or other issues that husbands have in marriage…it only addressed which group statistically has the best chance of avoiding divorce. IDGAF if that offends your sense of egalitarianism or offends you because you aren’t UMC.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@bpp

However, the man can fix whatever is making him respond to her bitching (usually it is because she is partially right about something or other) and when he fixes HE STOPS REACTING TO HER COMPLAINING.

high five

dr zipper
dr zipper
4 years ago

Blax, does he end up fucking her?

theasdgamer
4 years ago

If you are going through a divorce, it helps you to get your ex to 1) respect you and 2) like you and 3) desire you. Get a hold of your triggers so that she can’t set you off. Don’t let yourself get ambushed. Show strength and hold frame and manipulate the hell out of her. Flirt with your ex but always back off from it (“no, can’t do that, it isn’t good for me”). If a girl respects you, likes you, and desires you, she will want to please you. Even a little bit of progress in these three… Read more »

Blaximus
4 years ago

Bu-bu-bu-bu-bu-buffer. Guys are guys, girls are just girls. ” class ” means shit in the big picture. Lol. I read recently about a UMC/Superzip woman who’s husband was fucking some chick from work. Something got squirrely and he kidnapped the woman, shot her in the chest, and buried her in his backyard. When it finally came to light, all that had happened, the police arrested him and found a sex dungeon in his basement and tons or child porn. He’s now suspected in 3 more disappearances. Oh, and his wife is divorcing him. This is the reason that people are… Read more »

mersonia
4 years ago

You are so damn stupid.

mersonia
4 years ago

I’m sorry not stupid…
autist

Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Dr. Z

” Blax, does he end up fucking her?”

Nah, he just wanted to talk. He used a cold-cocked approach.

Fred Flange, GBFC (great books for, you know)
Fred Flange, GBFC (great books for, you know)
4 years ago

Marriage counseling always fails because the counselors are trained in attachment psychology. That is used for family therapy, to wit, parent child therapy. They use that same paradigm for marriage counseling. Guess who is deemed the parent and who is the child? Make sense now? Our sensei can splain it better I’m sure. I am curious how a counselor who worked with both spouses can testify against one of them in court. In The State That I Am In*, in that situation you can invoke therapist-patient privilege and bar the adverse testimony by the therapist without your permission. Are the… Read more »

Blaximus
4 years ago

Oh, one last thing and I’ll dead the discussion –

asd I’ll match bank accounts/401k’s/real estate and assets with you any time at all.

The only difference is that none of these things define me in any way. Take all of it away and I’m still the same guy.

I’m good. Always.

AZFloyd
AZFloyd
4 years ago

I apologize for length in advance. Re: Saleri Saleri’s situation hit close to home. I have one daughter (22) and one grandson (3). I would say that my feelings about her were the last blue pill vestiges. She got her own place last August. Her and the father don’t get along. Father is your typical millennial loser who still lives with his parents and at 24, has 0 full time jobs. Father is an 3d arteeest (facepalm). Paternal grandfather and grandmother are together and upper middle class, so there is stability and a place for Z to stay. Father and… Read more »

Blaximus
4 years ago

AZFloyd

Aside from the delightful slur, may I ask you who raised this daughter you speak of?

AZFloyd
AZFloyd
4 years ago

I apologize for length in advance. (and I may have double posted too) Re: Saleri Saleri’s situation hit close to home. I have one daughter (22) and one grandson (3). I would say that my feelings about her were the last blue pill vestiges. She got her own place last August. Her and the father don’t get along. Father is your typical millennial loser who still lives with his parents and at 24, has 0 full time jobs. Father is an 3d arteeest (facepalm). Paternal grandfather and grandmother are together and upper middle class, so there is stability and a… Read more »

I. H.
I. H.
4 years ago

Rollo, “Whore’s pension” is exactly what it is. BTW, looking forward to meeting you at the 21 convention. Lowest point during separation/divorce: My daughter graduated valedictorian from her high school. The paper interviewed her and asked: “Who was your greatest influence?” She said: ” My father. He always taught me I could achieve anything I put my mind to”. During her first year of college my ex drove up to her university and told her all sorts of bullshit and lies about me. At one point she actually said she couldn’t believe that she said I was her greatest influence.… Read more »

AZFloyd
AZFloyd
4 years ago

@ Blaximus Daughter lived with me and wife until daughter was 5. Then wife divorced me and I moved out of state for work. I would get daughter during the summers until 2008. After that, visitation was sporadic because my life was turned upside down because of the economic events of 2008, et. al. I was a lawyer and lost everything. Speaking of which, as a former divorce attorney, I know the truth spoken here. It is an evil profession. I had no business getting into it. I’m neither smart or cunning enough. I practice in front of the Honorable… Read more »

Donegoner
Donegoner
4 years ago

DSGame is wrong wrong wrong. He may think he could run tight game on a bitter abandoning nuclear detonating wife, but he is full of shit.

George C
George C
4 years ago

Rollo, your an “indirect’ therapists…how much have you profited off of men specifically? I read you stuff but it’s like another greedy hand “telling” me they have the answers.

Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Donegoner ” If you are going through a divorce, it helps you to get your ex to 1) respect you and 2) like you and 3) desire you. Get a hold of your triggers so that she can’t set you off. Don’t let yourself get ambushed. Show strength and hold frame and manipulate the hell out of her. Flirt with your ex but always back off from it (“no, can’t do that, it isn’t good for me”). If a girl respects you, likes you, and desires you, she will want to please you. Even a little bit of progress… Read more »

George C
George C
4 years ago

The truth of the matter is that marriage was not meant to last. This is the “pain” of living. People are complex and personal growth(or not), and careers. Women know this and there is nothing a man really can do from stopping her from leaving because a relationship is a choice. Personal, women had personal reasons for marriage in the first place. To leverage the strength of a man and now she’s cashing in her chips. You wanted sex so you played the game.

HowlingManTodd
HowlingManTodd
4 years ago

As I write this, this video is currently #1 in YouTube’s trending list:

https://youtu.be/YTyQgwVvYyc

(Lmao)

I. H.
I. H.
4 years ago

George C,

Troll much? Seriously?

Blaximus
4 years ago

@ AZFloyd Yeah man that’s some tough shit right there. The financial collapse fucked up a lot of good dudes I know and raised a shitstorm in their lives/families. Hang tough in your grandson’s life. He’s gonna need you as he grows. Oh, one more thing ( that you probably already know ), money and things can be replaced or done without. The important thing is to keep breathing and thinking and acting. Illness once almost forced me into bankruptcy, but I chose to give up what I could and get well and fight back twice as hard. Keep in… Read more »

Blaximus
4 years ago

@ George

” The truth of the matter is that marriage was not meant to last. This is the “pain” of living. People are complex and personal growth(or not), and careers. Women know this and there is nothing a man really can do from stopping her from leaving because a relationship is a choice. Personal, women had personal reasons for marriage in the first place. To leverage the strength of a man and now she’s cashing in her chips. You wanted sex so you played the game.”

I disagree fully.

What do I win?

dr zipper
dr zipper
4 years ago

hey HowlingManTodd, I visit the CH site from time to time, he looks and acts waaay different than I would have imagined

Not Born This Morning
4 years ago

@George What is your explanation for marriages that last, like mine for nearly 30 years now with no possibility of divorce unless I choose to, or the marriage of a man I worked for when I was in college that lasted over 40 years until he died whose wife cried bitterly and uncontrollably at his funeral although he was one of the most politically incorrect badasses (Air Force colonel 9000 hrs in the air mostly combat hrs over Korea and Vietnam) I’ve ever known (I helped carry his coffin to the grave) or my aunt and uncles marriage that lasted… Read more »

George C
George C
4 years ago

@I.H. I’m looking real wisdom not pseudo wisdom…taking a combative attitude towards women is immature. You’ll never win with that perspective.

George C
George C
4 years ago

@blaximus, what do you win? There you go with that small thinking. Face the truth…your marriage is not forever. It can end…women have secret reasons for marriage that men may not be aware of. Why do people team up? Because together they can accomplish something more than they could accomplish alone. This isn’t personal but she may not want you anymore. This isn’t good or bad. We only have a limited amount of time on this planet.

Not Born This Morning
4 years ago

Betas keep having the same experience with women over and over like a bad habit, a broken record that plays itself over and over. Alphas are capable of having different experiences with one woman or several women. This is the primary difference between the beta experience and the alpha experience.

Not Born This Morning
4 years ago

@George

Are you going to explain why some men control the longevity of their marriages or not? Is this something you can explain?

Please provide us your real wisdom on this, please. I’m dying to know the answers because I’m afraid all my experiences have been pseudo experiences and therefore my knowledge is just pseudo understanding.

Hurry, I’m anxious for your wisdom to lift me out of my pseudo existence.

George C
George C
4 years ago

@notborn First, congrats on your long marriage. Marriage is hardwork. Most aren’t willing to put their marriage first with real effort. Most want only the benefits. I’m not perfect and I don’t have all the answers. I’m single and I have no desire to get married. I started working at multinational right out of school and started traveling around the world and felt there was too much beauty in the world for me to commit to one person. Also, I’ve watched all my friend’s marriages peak and burnout and I’ve seen a few things. The successful marriages had these things… Read more »

George C
George C
4 years ago

@notborn,

I saw your last comment. Can you really “control” everything? Women have no say whatsoever?
Don’t take yourself so seriously.

Goodnight

Blaximus
4 years ago

@ George Any marriage can end. Any wife can go feral. But why do some marriages last? What’s going on in those circumstances? I reject the ” Big Bad Wimminz ” descriptor. Instead I choose to opt for a fuller and better understanding of what it is that makes women tick. People, male and female, may have different reasons for Teaming up, but if the man isn’t aware of whom he’s dealing with, the initial reasons no longer really matter and the man is in danger. It always flows back to the man. That might not sit well in some… Read more »

dr zipper
dr zipper
4 years ago

I think we found Andy’s mentor

I. H.
I. H.
4 years ago

@George,

“Combative attitude towards women?” I have no idea where this comment is coming from.

And again, questioning rollo’s motives, I can only conclude that you’re either a troll or grossly misinformed.

George C
George C
4 years ago
Reply to  I. H.

@L.H. I’m back and I’m making comments to replies after I left last night. When I use the word “combative” I mean that you psychologically reduce the other person or assume the worse. We do it with the Chinese, blacks and women. Realistically, each person has an agenda and so acknowledging this is the first step negotiating a better deal. Mature people negotiate to the middle and each should give up something to strengthen the deal. Divorce results when other can’t reconcile their agenda/needs. Finally, I’m not a troll. I’ve bought Rollo’s book and I’m willing to consider all ideas… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

@George C: “Rollo…how much have you profited off of men specifically?”

How much have you paid to Rollo for your reading?
How much has some third party paid to Rollo for your reading.

George C
George C
4 years ago
Reply to  kfg

@KFG,

How should I be paying to Rollo. I don’t really understand the logic of your question. I made the comment because Rollo mentioned “Therapists” but that’s exactly what he is when you read his books “Virtually”

George C
George C
4 years ago

@blaximus. You guys have to stop. I need to sleep 🙂 A marriage is not male or female controlled. It’s what you together build but it can become the former without respect or diligence. I decided against marriage because I wanted full choice in my life. I met lots of women but I understand how women think and their drivers. 100 years of marriage is not a goal of mine. I don’t have to play this game. I’m willing to pay the consequences of my decisions too. As a man, the buck does stop with us. YOUR CHOICES MATTER! I… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

George C A marriage is not male or female controlled. It’s what you together build Yes sure, because evo bio/psych tells us women relish men who don’t lead. Not. Do you understand War Brides? Women want men who are flexible mentally Based on what? Women want men to be Teh Oak… Teh Rock. The boundary. The engine that powers the world is desire. – Churchian influence? Genesis 3:16 “Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” I want to make a nasty comment about a long marriage from the perspective of a wife LOL. I… Read more »

George C
George C
4 years ago
Reply to  Sentient

@Sentient, You can insult me all you want. Do you have thing based on fact? You don’t get this. People are adaptive. What worked yesterday may or may not work today it depends of people’s level of personal growth. I’m not going to reply to your other comments you so much to learn that I could try to reason with you all day and you’d never get it.

dr zipper
dr zipper
4 years ago

something is off with this troll…. ESL?

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Could be a bot.

Not Born This Morning
4 years ago

@George That’s not an explanation. That was pathetic. Step up to the plate and really think about it. There is a reason why your are here on this blog, and it’s not simply trolling. Don’t let this be a waste. You probably will not find a better place. I’ve been here for a few years and it has been very enlightening. Consider why you are reacting to Rollos work, question why you feel the way you do. Although I do not completely see everything in exactly the same way Rollo does, I can honestly assure you he provides a map… Read more »

George C
George C
4 years ago

@notborn, I’m here because I subscribe to notifications from Rollo. Some of his(Rollo’s) articles are good. I think this article today had errors of logic and I pointed them out. This what happens on discussion boards. You seem like cool person. I’m here to have “reasoned” discussions. It’s okay to challenge assumptions, right? But with that said, everyone “reasons/rationalizes” a reason why they should be running things, right? I’m about better relationships not “control.” Give and take. Personally, I believe an obsession with control will poison any relationship. The world will continue if I’m not here so I’m realistic about… Read more »

dr zipper
dr zipper
4 years ago

ya, smells like an algorithm

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Blax

Lmao, sometimes asd goes off on these little tangents.

Putting aside the issue of skill and timing, on a theoretical basis this would be correct. I think you would agree that many of these elements where present during your divorce no? One of the reasons you had the frame you had and got the non raped deal? Is this wrong?

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

NBTM – killing it this thread…

dr zipper
dr zipper
4 years ago

Sent/Blax – I interpreted the asd comment being a suggestion of demeanor during the divorce proceedings in the hopes that it might give her cause to show some restraint…. not sic the lawyer on the man quite so harshly

nothing about capitulation, just smart, almost common-sensical behavior to give yourself the greatest advantage

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
4 years ago

Jordan peterson banned from u tube for stating there are only two genders?

Sensored by the fi?

Not Born This Morning
4 years ago

@George “Women want men who are flexible mentally.” This is very mistaken and the result of being deceived. What women really want is a man who knows what he is doing with himself, a man who does with himself as he desires. “Mirror each other” Uh…no. Men are men and women are women. They are different, complimentary when they cooperate, but never mirror images of each other. Men are better at some things than women and women better at some things than men. There is an ongoing deception that pervades western culture today making you and many others doubt the… Read more »

George C
George C
4 years ago

@NotBorn,

I challenge your thinking here. Who really knows what their doing, seriously? The US education system is a specialist system. It doesn’t fully prepare graduates for all aspects of living and work. I think women want a “real” man who’s not afraid to talk about his strengths and weaknesses. If a man know everything, NTBM, why would he need a woman in his life?

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

@NBTM Sorry for the following abstract thought. I hope it’s not too obscure. I spent a glorious day out in Nature today. “This search for understanding and the need to create a third set of books is like Perceval’s search for the Holy Grail. It is an endeavor to discover or create an overarching mental schema that will provide security or guide against negative consequences. It is born out of the legitimate need to formulate or follow an ideal “frame” that protects or rescues man or helps him to accept his fate. Yet we exist with consequences, desirable or not,… Read more »

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

“Yet we exist with consequences, desirable or not, that are actualized by actors who never universally or consistently comply with any ideal.” “The hardest role to play is the one where you play yourself and allow yourself to remove the mask and be yourself.” ― Vadim Zeland, Reality transurfing. Steps I-V This is entirely different from the notion of “just be yourself” (which implies that if you have a messed up Ego and Superego-i.e, ‘Your Self’ you won’t get far with women). It deals with being masterful and allowing yourself to operate how you want to, where you want to.… Read more »

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

“You being on stage and playing.”

With you being the author of your own script. Designing your own script. Not following some one else’s script. Things get real then. With you leaning out to your edge and not falling off. Good thing the Manosphere was invented as a Safety Net there.

SFC Ton
4 years ago

Women only want one thing.

That one thing is……. what ever they currently don’t have

Girls with alpha fucks will tell everyone how she pines away for beta cuddles. And of course the reverse is true but the “worse” you treat them the longer they will stick around. They’ll go a lot longer deprived of beta cuddles then they will go without alpha fucks so if you want that bitch to stick around fuck her so hard you break her mother fucking pussy. Then that raving bitch will follow you around like a loss puppy

gaz
gaz
4 years ago

I quickly scanned thru Divorce Corp – I think its interesting the number of female “victims” portrayed in the documentry. I mean it seemed like 50% if not more of the cases were woman getting slammed??? so not really representative of what actually goes on….

Strange that a documentry focusing on the divorce industry is so heavily weighted on its perceived effect on woman,

Roused
4 years ago

NBTM wrote: AND “PROVIDED FOR” DOES NOT MEAN SHOWERED WITH “LUXURIES” SO SHE WILL FUCK LIKE A PORN STAR. That goes hand in hand with what the Ton wrote with a savage cold plate of truth: They’ll go a lot longer deprived of beta cuddles then they will go without alpha fucks so if you want that bitch to stick around fuck her so hard you break her mother fucking pussy. Then that raving bitch will follow you around like a loss puppy. Of course if one wants a little more balance the man can provide some of the emotional… Read more »

George C
George C
4 years ago
Reply to  Roused

@roused, I missed your comment here. Sorry about that. I don’t know whether to pity you or lie further to you. Is seduction your only focus when dealing with women? You guys talk with terms like “alpha” and “beta” and you call it “Leading” but do you know that the Alpha attracts the weakest type of woman. Is this in your best interest long term? I need to go to work. Talk to you later.

BuenaVista
BuenaVista
4 years ago

Fred Flange: “I am curious how a counselor who worked with both spouses can testify against one of them in court. In The State That I Am In*, in that situation you can invoke therapist-patient privilege and bar the adverse testimony by the therapist without your permission.” I think this is directed to my comment. I didn’t say she testified. I said anecdotes from my therapy sessions were leaked to my ex-, and showed up in her filing. This is an ethical violation and a big deal, according to my lawyer; the therapist, when I called her, said that she… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

George C: “How should I be paying to Rollo.”

If you don’t know how you should be paying Rollo, how should Rollo be making a profit from it?

George C
George C
4 years ago
Reply to  kfg

@KFG. I’m going to make some assumptions here and can you confirm if I’m on the right track?
Originally, I made the comment related to Rollo’s post because he made the comment that the Therapist has this monetized process “going and coming” as he said above. I replied and asked him how much he has profited by being a “Virtual” Therapists. I’m accusing him of basically being the same things he’s complaining about. Are we on the same page now, KFG?

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

George C: “I’m accusing him of basically being the same things he’s complaining about.”

Correct. On what grounds do you justify the accusation.

George C
George C
4 years ago
Reply to  kfg

@KFG, I wasn’t sure if your question was serious or not but I’m posting a reply. I base my comments on these things:

The books, https://therationalmale.com/the-book/ – I’ve bought some to explore Rollo’s theories.
The 21 Convention, https://therationalmale.com/2017/04/25/the-21-convention/

Basically, this is “support” community for men so men don’t have to go through the formal mental health care system. Aspects of Rollo’s site are monetized.

rugby11
rugby11
4 years ago
Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

George C. Not I’m back and I’m making comments to replies after I left last night. When I use the word “combative” I mean that you psychologically reduce the other person or assume the worse. We do it with the Chinese, blacks and women. Realistically, each person has an agenda and so acknowledging this is the first step negotiating a better deal. Mature people negotiate to the middle and each should give up something to strengthen the deal. Divorce results when other can’t reconcile their agenda/needs. Morning sleepyhead… How was Mom’s breakfast today? Hey looks like we have an Equalist… Read more »

George C
George C
4 years ago
Reply to  Sentient

@Sentient,

I find you comments humorous. Your truly special. Nothing you say is based on fact and it’s insulting?

1. Do I live with my mother or does she participate in my life? How do you know my situation?
2. Did I say equal? Treating people with respect is not the same treating them as equal, right?

Have you heard the phrase that if you want “respect” you have to give it? You doing well in this area…

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

If a man know everything, NTBM, why would he need a woman in his life?

Lol… BJ’s, sandwiches… laundry… there is a long list.

George C
George C
4 years ago
Reply to  Sentient

@Sentient, I will say this…if anyone on this board is going to need this article in the future…it’s going to be you 🙂 Do you know what a euphemism is? “Your an Alpha” LOL.

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