Surrender

Most of my readers are aware of my stand on the myth of male vulnerability. Weakness is not strength, but the Village of the Feminine Imperative, would have us believe that the more a man displays honest signs of vulnerability the more endearing he’ll be to women. The Blue Pill conditions men to believe that crying, or being more emotionally sensitive, or really anything that makes him identify with the feminine in his personal character is a form of this endearing vulnerability that women can (by appealing to equalist reason) be expected to respect in a man. While adopting this mindset may open a man up to ridicule (and unspoken disgust on the part of women), this is not true vulnerability. The Village might try to convince a man he’s being brave by avoiding conventional masculinity, but this emasculating vulnerability is nothing compared to what a man has to lose from real vulnerability.

What I think most men, certainly all Blue Pill men, miss is that the ultimate form of vulnerability a man can engage in is ‘catching feelings’ for, or emotionally investing himself in, any particular woman. And this is especially so if that man’s Blue Pill conditioning makes him oblivious to the risks of that vulnerability.

Nothing leaves a man more vulnerable in life, love, family, career, finances and really power over the direction of his life than to invest himself in a woman. The very act, the very thought, of surrendering his life’s imperative to the trust that a woman wont exercise the unimaginable control and potential for damage she has in his life is a vulnerability no woman will ever recognize or acknowledge; nor will the sacrifices that come from this vulnerability ever be something she has a capacity to appreciate.

Even in the best case scenarios, where a man’s investment is reciprocated, or a somewhat idyllic relationship grows between a man and a woman, such is the state of our modern sexual marketplace that a potential for a man’s ruin still colors that relationship. Our feminine-primary social order has, through legislation and social pretense, made the proposition of any man navigating the sexual marketplace one of inherent vulnerability. Women rarely understand the vulnerability a man is opening himself up to because our social order makes that potential for his harm invisible to her. In fact, if he resists opening himself up to potential ruin he’s considered to be insecure, and this in turn is attributed to his maleness.

I have no doubt there will be women reading this last paragraph and think, “Well, women are putting themselves at risk too, we have to be vulnerable too.” No, you really don’t. Since the beginning of the Sexual Revolution every potential aspect of vulnerability for women in the SMP has been meticulously compensated for, or insured against the worst. Whether that’s the grossly female-weighted divorce and custody laws, or legal abortion, or arbitrary consent laws that only serve women, or the special dispensation for women academically or vocationally, any and all vulnerability risk is mitigated for you. The emotional vulnerability you believe is so costly pales in comparison to the risk and consequences that vulnerability represents to men. Men commonly have more to risk, more to lose and invest more of themselves into that risk proposition.

True vulnerability, the kind that opens you up to life-destroying consequences, is when a man’s idealism for women, despite knowing all the very likely, very destructive, consequences is something he willfully ignores. For a Blue Pill man, his vulnerability is rarely ever recognized. Thanks to his life-long preconditioning he believes in a romanticism that insulates him from ever acknowledging the risks and the all-downside potential of that vulnerability. This obliviousness – keeping a Beta-in Waiting blind – is a primary goal of Blue Pill conditioning.

Idealizing Surrender

Women would rather be objectified than idealized. The reason for this really gets back to evolved gender differences; women want a man who other men want to be and other women want to fuck. In other words, women want to be the object of desire of a worthy man. When a man surrenders himself to the primacy of the feminine, when he makes a woman his mental point of origin, when he alters the course of his life to accommodate her, that’s when he ceases to be someone for whom she’ll willingly submit to. When she becomes his center he knowingly surrenders Frame.

It is, however, the innate idealism that predisposes men to outward thinking, to the belief in what could be realized, that also predisposes them to idolizing women on whole and idolizing a woman at once. A man’s idealism makes a lot of things possible for him, but it also puts him at terrible risk with regard to being truly vulnerable. Furthermore, men’s fundamental romantic nature is also attributed to our innate what-is-possible idealism. The Feminine Imperative has used this idealism to its benefit for millennia, but the most common (seemingly sensible) utility of it results in men’s surrender of self to the feminine.

When we read through the romantic poetry of the ages – almost all of it written by men – the most common reoccurring theme is that of a helpless ‘surrender’ to the love a man bears for a woman. From Ovid to Shakespeare to Byron the dialog and sentiment is the same; that of the inherent ‘correctness’ of a man surrendering his soul to the love – requited or not – of a woman. If there is a psychological root to the disorder of ONEitis it can be found in this poetic idealism.

However, there is nothing that makes a man more vulnerable to a woman, to the feminine, than his idealist’s nature. The Feminine Imperative knows this thumbscrew of men. One hallmark of the conditioned Beta mind is an eagerness to put themselves into a state of surrender to the feminine. I go into this a bit in Pre-Whipped:

These are the men I call pre-whipped; men so thoroughly conditioned, men who’ve so internalized that conditioning, that they mentally prepare themselves for total surrender to the Feminine Imperative, that they already make the perfect Beta provider before they even meet the woman to whom they’ll make their sacrifice.

But what should predispose men to so eagerly want this surrender? Certainly there’s an element of a (false) belief in the possibility of a mutual concept of love between that man and a (potential) woman. It’s what he believes should be possible.

What else? There’s the pre-conditioned belief that this surrender is his masculine duty. Countless Blue Pill pastors make a living belaboring the narrative that men can’t be Men until they mold themselves over the course of a lifetime to be a (once convenient) a woman’s ideal. Literally, manhood is denied to him until he surrenders to the feminine.

The Family Alpha made this observation last week:

Many men have given the power over their inner self entirely to the women of their lives.

While I completely agree, what I’m wondering is why this need to surrender self is an intrinsic aspect in men? The majority of men (80% Betas) are pre-whipped to expect a need to surrender to the women in their lives. Their abdication is so matter of fact that it becomes something subconscious for them.

Is this a characteristic that separates Betas from Alphas? I’d like to think so, but then a distinction needs to be made between being a Strong Independent Alpha who lives up to a positive, pro-social, conventionally masculine role (despite a world arrayed against it) and the same who, though still respectively Alpha, surrenders his sense of self to the woman he idolizes.

SFC Ton had a great comment about this surrender:

“Women do not really have more power……The first step is to realize that this is indeed the case. Men cede power. Men are taught to cede power. Men look for opportunities to cede power. Women just take advantage of men’s largess. A man does not have to be full on Alpha to get this, or to use it to his best advantage in life.”

One thing to consider is how much power have men ceded and to what effect. The surrender is real, both individually and socially. Reclaiming the power ceded in that surrender will be fought in many different scopes. In The Family Alpha’s article, the concern is two fold: the ceding of a man’s inner self, the surrender of identity to the approval of the feminine, and what the consequences are for men once they reclaim or recreate an identity apart from what he allowed the feminine to create for him.

This a significant thing to ponder for men. One reason I believe men become so despondent, so nihilistic, after some trauma that shook them into Red Pill awareness is that their identity, their sense of self, was a result of this ceding of power to women. They literally do not know what to make of themselves once they are cut free from that paradigm, but moreover they must confront the fact that who they are now (at the time of their unplugging) is, in large part, due to that self-surrender. Prior to their unplugging this surrender may have been involuntary for them, but still perhaps not. Their vulnerability and the true potential of permanent damage from it is put out in the open for them and others to realize.

It’s easy to think of men having difficulty getting over their Exes as in some way damaged. Family Alpha’s point was to encourage men to get back on the horse and back in the game and be competitive again, and that’s what I believe is most beneficial for these men. I also believe that it does men no service to prolong feeling sorry for themselves, but again, that’s part of the process of recreating a man. The risk then becomes a sort of new surrender wherein men drop out and isolate themselves aways from the system that held them and caused them to believe in, and then confront the consequences of their first vulnerability and surrender to the feminine. Isolation becomes their new form of surrender.

However, it’s also important that they recognize the potential for damage that surrendering, that ceding power, to the feminine represents to them. Red Pill aware men should acknowledge that their real vulnerability will be implied in any relationship they enter into beyond a perfunctory pump & dump. That knowledge should be a source of power that prevents them from overextending themselves once again into surrender to the feminine. They are aware now and that awareness now implies a responsibility to it. It demands that they keep their heads out of the sand and make calculated risks according to that awareness.

Your new Red Pill self has no more excuses of ignorance – your life’s been handed back to you with the full knowledge of the system you’re a part of.

No surrender.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Oscar C.
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@SJF I get what you are saying, but I feel you are projecting a bit. Allow me to insist that Spain is not like America regarding all those social clubs and organizations you have always had; such civic tissue has always been far more limited here. In the 1950s and 60s, when the U.S. were booming and your middle class experience at its best, Spain was still a dictatorship and just starting to industrialize. So probably we never got to experience some of the things RP American men might miss now. I had already read Rollo’s “Tribes”. After a quick… Read more »

kfg
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” . . . Spain was still a dictatorship . . .”

I remember it.

” . . . women enjoy talking to each other, but it is mostly gossip and related to fashion, celebrities, children… it is . . .”

. . . the professional concerns of women.

“I have had deep conversations with some of my friends about politics, economics and . . .”

. . . other such professional concerns of men.

I’ve got an idea, why not try talking to women about the sort of things that men and women talk to each other about?

SJF
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“…but to assume that you can only truly bond with a man over some hobby is wrong in my opinion. ” Not what I meant. Tribes wasn’t about men being “doers”, it was about when they are doing things with other men, they are a tribe on a mission of tasks. Not just shooting the shit to negotiate friendships. Just to have friendships. When did evolutionarily evolving men seek “friendships” as a goal, rather than defending the tribe? That’s a static thing, men must “must constantly adapt, evolve, and proliferate not merely to gain reproductive advantage, but also simply to… Read more »

SFC Ton
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I’ve got an idea, why not try talking to women about the sort of things that men and women talk to each other about?
…….
Talk to them about fucking? What else do you have in common with them? Normally I talk at them for a minute or two then ask them something semi outrageous like if they know how to use a shotgun and if they want to help out on an armored car heist

I also walked around camp with a blow up sheep under my arm. Managed to pull two army sluts an ngo hippie like that

SFC Ton
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Well doc we’re all a series of assets and liabilities so a man needs learn how to play up one and limited the other. I ain’t good-looking and I ain’t tall but chicks dig scars and tattoos

SJF
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“…we’re all a series of assets and liabilities so a man needs learn how to play up one and limited the other” Exactly. But we are witnessing Oscar take credit for his alleged strengths and outsource the reasons for his liability. And correct me if i’m wrong, but he’s still positing that he can’t change his personality, his style and his skills. Oscar persists in Buffering. No offense intended Oscar. At all. Just trying to make you have more Awareness of Red Pill concepts: https://therationalmale.com/2011/08/26/buffers/ “Lastly, experience teaches harsh, but it teaches best. Rejection, real, raw, in your face rejection… Read more »

EhIntellect
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@Oscar

“I feel you are projecting a bit”

I feel you are gamma as you’re involuntarily celibate, in spite of your ceaseless clever buffering.

@ SFCTon

Belated: Re: cunnilingus

Do I confuse wifey’s hindbrain when I’ve trussed her, ate her out to orgasm, left her tied, sat at the table eating ice cream (vanilla, nothing too exotic for me), then 10″ later finushed up, she still tied quietly asking, no, pleading me not to leave her?

Fuck me. Pussy juice is the perfect food: Tastes great AND less filling.

EhIntellect
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@Dr. Zipper

BBguns! Thanks for the memories! Round here we’d don our snowsuits and hunt each other. Three pump limit. Yeah, right.

SJF
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As an aside, I noticed the Twitter back and forth about MBTI (Myers–Briggs personality type) with Rollo being about it’s psycho-behavioral non-validity because personalities are change-able (And Oscar’s should change if any commenters here have any sway over that) and The Artful Man having heavily invested in it as the foundation for his blog/twitter life. I took one today, (although it was a gay, answer questions about pictures one that my red pill buddy sent me). http://writical.com/four-personality-types-take-quiz-find-one-fit/ It turned up as: Intelligent Extrovert Most defining characteristics: You are lively, outgoing and emotionally open. You are a leader! As you probably… Read more »

SJF
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By the way, I don’t doubt that that rosy Horoscope-like personality interpretation of me, while mostly true of my outlook, was anything more than click-bait waiting for someone to pounce and be emotionally validated. But it also would be an example of exuberant self confidence if someone were to take it to heart.

I have plenty of rational self confidence, so I can just Agree and Amplify with it for what it’s worth.

EhIntellect
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Re: OP

Am I the only guy who watched the parade af Beta males at the NBA draft??

One after another praising Mom and all her sacrifices, The guy who wore the pimped pink ribbon blazer for his 21 year survivor of Breast ca? 21 years??? Has she done nothing else but lock this poor dude into her frame since? Talk about tax exempt capital gains.

Talk about living for the hivemind, FI. Poor fella.

EhIntellect
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“Most defining characteristics: You are lively, outgoing and emotionally open. You are a leader!
As you probably already know, you are a born leader!”

Ahem.

http://www.bodyforwife.com/why-men-dont-use-exclamation-points-and-women-do/

dr zipper
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@Eh – Eric?!? is that you? how’s the scar over the eye?

lol bb guns, if there’s a finite amount of luck allotted to each of us, I’m pretty sure to have already used all mine up by 14 yo

kfg
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@SJF: ” KFG . . . he doesn’t have any trouble with being a leader of others.” Well, to be honest, I generally find it a bit annoying. I have business of my own to attend to, but every now and then I turn around and there’s a line following me around like I’m supposed to be providing their business with direction or something. @Ton: “Talk to them about fucking? What else do you have in common with them?” That pretty much sums it up. @Dr. Zipper: ” . . . if there’s a finite amount of luck allotted to… Read more »

Ajax Parallax
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This should help to refocus the men who still hold to idealizing and, from the OP, surrendering to their women while expecting them to always remain loyal and appreciate their sacrifices, such as kicking ass while on military deployment (referencing the military infidelity upthread). In this first clip, if legit, it is highly likely this young lass’s deployed hubby left her imprinted with his strong frame, purely based on her reflexive responses upon being approached (by a dude with a solid approach game, I might add). “I’m married,” quickly followed by “My husband is a Marine.” and “He wouldn’t like… Read more »

kfg
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“My husband wouldn’t like that.”

i.e. I’m available.

EhIntellect
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Is ride or die a unicorn?

Blaximus
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Nope.

You just gotta know who they are.

Blaximus
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The vids are not real.

Spidey senses raging….

EhIntellect
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“it is highly likely this young lass’s deployed hubby left her imprinted with his strong frame, purely based on her reflexive responses upon being approached (by a dude with a solid approach game, I might add).” Shit bro, thx for the memories. Me and friend sitting at picnic bench, Ft. Bragg shopette. Car pulls up, two young women, ask us to party wit em. Cool. We’ll meet at their red clay brick base housing, we bring the booze. We arrive early, girls arrive, we’re inside…Ding-Dong! Hubby’s friend-soldier returned early…days before hubby. Busted. She sat at kitchen table, head in hands,… Read more »

EhIntellect
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@Blax,

At my best, Mrs. Eh has grabbed women and thrown them off of me.

Theres more to this than sex y’all.

CSI
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Those two girls are married, yet they are walking around in public dressed like strippers. Those clothes don’t even look that comfortable, so they can’t offer that as an excuse.

Blaximus
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CSI…. it’s not reeeaaaallll… lol.

SJF
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@KFG

“Well, to be honest, I generally find it a bit annoying.”

Same as it ever was. And as it should always be.

Some of us don’t suffer fools gladly. You and I, those judgmental SOB’s. Fuck the fools.

You have the abilities, the skills, and the traits. Doesn’t mean you have to employ them.

It’s better to have a firearm and not need it rather than not have one when you need it.

Traits are not always pathologies. No matter what others may say.

Ajax Parallax
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@Blaximus Yeah, I was going back and forth on its legitimacy (which is why I cautioned with my ‘if legit’ comment). Was even expecting more BS call-outs in the comments than are posted. Odd. The thing of it is, I have personally known dudes (no Lambo or $$ but high in the looks dept. with no game) who banged young married wives whose husbands were deployed. Found out after the fact they were married. Also know dudes whose wives left them for high net worth guys with a similar speed that Jerry Seinfeld’s wife left her poor cuck: “Nederlander, 46,… Read more »

Novaseeker
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fake videos. gosh guys, why post them.

Novaseeker
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I understand that some concepts, particularly Frame, are hard for some men to fully wrap their heads around and embrace, but I feel STRONGLY that MPO and Frame are concepts that are CRUCIAL for a man to grasp and put into practice asap. So yeah, I tend to bust on my fellow men when they appear to say that it’s hard. I bust because it’s important. @Blax — Amen. And they are scared even if they aren’t saying it. But persevere, keep encouraging and then they have those breakthroughs… Nothing can take away that kind of confidence then. @Sent —… Read more »

cheupez
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@EhIntelect and all After hearing so much about No More Mr. Nice Guy Book I have finally read it. In quite a number of instances it reeks of bluepill overtones. There are instances where the guy sounds like he is saying men ought to get their shit together so they can be better dutiful husbands. Stuff like men needing to ask for sex from their wives, him appearing on oprah etc. Bullshit. I think men should embrace No Mr. Nice Guy paradigms for the sake of their freedom from societal expectation for service without giving congruent reciprocation. Most western women… Read more »

cheupez
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@kfg
Lol. Exactly. My husband wouldnt like that. [I am fine with it but…., you know, ….eerrr BUT HE is the problem here, you see? Not me]. LOL.

BUT seeing as you have a motherfucking supercar, I have never been to a beach house (bitch house?), and the dude is out of town, eeerr…champaign is good for health.

I wish there was a way to donstrate this common scenario on tape without having to post fake videos.

Oscar C.
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@SJF No offense at all, SJF, I truly appreciate your advice. I am naturally stubborn but open to new ideas. I have modified my views enough in the past so it would not be the first time. The challenge now is that it implies significant change in actions as well. I grasped better this time what you meant, I was too focused on the hobbies and so on. You are onto something when you say: “You get anti-fragile by putting yourself through shit and when you come out the other side, the more things in life won’t affect you as… Read more »

LEX
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I spent too long indulging in my sense of outrage.
I’m starting to realize – finally – that outrage at life is wasted energy. Narcissistic.
Life doesn’t give a fuck.
And why should it?
It’s liberating….

anon
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“fake videos. gosh guys, why post them.”

The gold digger’s video isn’t legit?
Au, shit.

Next up: Reality show:
Gold hoarder pickup lines
“What’s a bar like this doing in a girl like you?”

Limitless
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To properly evaluate potential damage caused by venerability one must remember just two quotes. First one by Beige Philip You’re in situations when you think you’re in a relationship, but you’re not in a relationship, you’re in battle. And second by Sun Tzu If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle. Men are raised blind hooded to women’s nature first by their own mothers, then by gynocentric society and they also don’t know what to make of their own reactions to women. Nobody has told them that, what initially feels so good, later can… Read more »

anon
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comment image

theasdgamer
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chick dildo humor…feels so deep to chicks, but guys just can’t see it

EhIntellect
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Welcome aboard LEX

@ cheupez

Right on. Self help books are to be a-la-carted. Take what works, disregard the rest.

Roused
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Don’t have a lot of time to write all I’ve found useful in the past day or so of comments, but it’s great stuff. The most important thing is that I’ve realized my MPO needs realignment. I’m finding that lately it’s important to re-calibrate sooner than slog through methods/thinking that is only brining marginal results. Started by changing my workout at the gym completely, less cardio and more weights. Another Dune quote: “Without change something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken.” @Eh “Am I the only guy who watched the parade af Beta males at the… Read more »

kfg
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” . . . less cardio and more weights.”

How do your leg muscles know whether they’re pushing a lever on a bicycle and not a lever on a leg press?

” . . . on the elliptical at the gym.”

The elliptical is at best useless, and at worst counter useful. They’ve had to invent the elliptical bicycle to make appear as if it has real world application. And yet, while I see people out hamstering on the trails on elliptical bicycles, I never see them parked at the grocery store.

Blaximus
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@ Roused

One of the great things about being a man is that we have practically endless options for self improvement, and working on ourselves – including making adjustments and fine tuning – doesn’t leave much time for societal nonsense as our time is focused on what we decide to do in service of ourselves.

The dividends are massive long term.

Glad to hear your continued progression. It never ends because you’re never finished until you’re lowered into the earth.

Your choice. Your pace.

TuffLuv
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@Morpheus and SJF

Thanks fellas, your affirmation is important to me, and it’s always rewarding if my posts can help anyone in any way.

I’ve never felt better.

TuffLuv
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Also, @SJF your elaboration on my post and relating it to Deida’s third stage.. Golden.

EhIntellect
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“Growing up I never worked on anything during the summers like I hear many American teenagers do. I did not see the point since I did not really covet anything expensive.” Teenage employment is less about the money than knowing, acting on one’s options. Consider your lessons lost re: labor expectations, experience, social skills and much more while idle. My boys have been bussing tables, hosting, waiting, dish-duty, the oldest prep and steak cooking. My oldest analyzes every restaurant for work flow, staff ratios, cooking space, cleanliness and quality/freshness and price. He sees the world differently now with all his… Read more »

FWIW
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There is another way to look at the relationship between male strength and willingness to show vulnerability. Forget crying or generally showing lots of emotion, to simply tell the truth is enough to make oneself vulnerable in this litigious, gynocentric world. For a man to know that risk, and still make the choice to be honest all the time (whether that means acknowledging his own mistakes/shortcomings, or expressing a negative view of a popular person/object/idea), shows his lack of fear towards other people. He’s not worried about how anyone will retaliate, he’s going to speak in a way that accurately… Read more »

Oscar C.
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@Eh Yes, I certainly did not see things that way back then. The social skills part, dealing with coworkers… seems the most important to me now. I wasn’t exactly idle (did some trips abroad to learn languages, one of the reasons I am able to write this down) but yeah, I can see now that always avoiding work or unpleasant things is not the way to go. The more I look back the more I understand why girls did not exactly find me attractive, regardless of appearance. It is painful right now but I think worthwhile for the future. Just… Read more »

rugby11
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EhIntellect
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Force, not as defined. I believe boys have desire for competence, are fearful, ignorant of how to achieve it. Sentient talked a bit about this regarding sports…same thing. Young men(old guys too) underestimate their potential. Specifically, I sat them down, helped them quickly create resumes with what they had: grades, off-the-books work history, references. Drove them to nearby diners…within 30 minutes they had three interviews set up. I’m their biggest fan and am prone to stemwinders, cheer-leading, sky’s-the-limit fathering, between bagging that they need to stay out of Mom’s hair. Summer’s here and I’m not around much as before…I did… Read more »

Oscar C.
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@Eh

Nice. I am glad you do parenting that way. That drive is also very American in my opinion.

Roused
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Messed up my right knee playing basketball with a group of guys I ran with when I was 28. My knee said fuck you, you’re 53. I can deal with the pain, but it limits my mobility, am trying to figure out alternatives to squats for the short term. Any suggestions?

kfg
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@Roused:

Glute bridge and hip thrust. They don’t stress the quads as much as squats, but they do stress them and with much lower forces on the knee. And while they might not give you bulging quads, they’ll give you a great ass.

And if you check your pulse, you may find that body weight glute bridges can replace the elliptical machine without neuro-patterning unnatural motion.

SFC Ton
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Split leg dead lifts if you have the range of motion, high box squats, anything like a farmer’s carry, sled drag, truck pull or push

SFC Ton
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Who let the nancy in?

rugby11
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Anon01
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@Roused You should work on mobility daily. Read the “how to become a supple leopard” book for detailed info on that. I would then film my self with a phone or whatever and diagnose & correct my movement patterns. This book has upgraded all my lifts that involve shoulders. # https://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Supple-Leopard-2nd-Performance/dp/1628600837/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1498593410&sr=8-1&keywords=the+supple+leopard (you can probably download it for free somewhere, too) # https://www.youtube.com/user/sanfranciscocrossfit/search?query=Knee Also, you could expirement with lower weight(or body weight) squats, bulgarian split squats, lunges, etc with pause and slow(3-5secs) eccentric/concentric phase. If you add not “locking” neither at the top, nor the bottom of these movements the reps… Read more »

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EhIntellect
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@ Oscar Yeah, I’ve heard that too about the U.S. I’m not even that driven by money though. I don’t consider teenage travel, foreign languages a masculine undertaking per se. Improvement, sure. Was your travel on another’s dime? If yes, does this bother you? I can’t make my kids better people, I can’t teach them to be motivated, generally. I can make them worse through apathy, indulgence, permissiveness asphyxiating the drive to succeed. Denying them to know themselves, Helping them find their limits is fun, part of my duties. I wrestled as a youth and learned my physical limits then.… Read more »

anon
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“Yeah, I’ve heard that too about the U.S. I’m not even that driven by money though.”

From what I’ve seen, the teenager employment experience depends most on the opportunities in the area. I’ve even lived in parts of the US where I was under the impression that teens no longer worked, since I would see immigrants working all of those jobs that I’d see teens working a couple of decades ago. Then I’d move to another area where the teens were almost all working.

Oscar C.
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Oscar C.
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@Eh I thought you were American. I guess this site is more international than I had expected. Yes, of course, it was paid for by my parents. I was like 16 or so. No, it never bothered me in the least. I have some acquaintancies who would tell me how embarrassed they felt when they had to ask for pocket money at home, but not me. I just thought it was natural, which is probably a mistake as you imply. However I was keenly aware of the costs and once there did make the most of it by actively trying… Read more »

dr zipper
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you guys are awesome… some fella shows up complaining of his starvation and you — not knowing the preferences of his palate — place a made-to-order buffet before him to give myriad options to ingest your nutritious wisdom after a few make-nice words about the pleasant presentation and fine ingredients, it’s waved aside with nary a taste as being too undercooked, overcooked, fattening, unfilling, not-like-mama-made-it or some other excuse as to why it’s unfit for the starving man’s consumption…. please go back to the kitchen and try again; and you do it!! you guys have far more patience than me… Read more »

Oscar C.
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@zipper

I guess that is about me. As I said I do really appreciate the advice and will try to apply it as much as possible. Some of those ideas have been in my head for a while, others are more alien, hence a certain resistance towards them which does not mean rejection.

EhIntellect
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@dr. Zipper Classic good cop-bad cop tactics. Dr. Zipper: Now listen chica fruitcake. You’re gonna alpha up and fast cuz I got a reeeal mean temper, ya see? Yer gonna park that shit in the FR’s or else, comprende gallina? SJF: Take 5 Zip. Look amigo, here’s a Horchata. Zip’s put out cuz he’s had a choice day. He wants the best for you. I do too. Glad you’re here, now just stop being gay and hit up some whoever Spanish chick and tell us in the field reports. They’re real nice there you see…we get it…and now read this… Read more »

Blaximus
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I’ve been working steady since age 16. That’s why I’m looking to retire soon, lol. I stopped asking my folks for any money at age 16 also. But, my dad, as a business owner, provided me with ample opportunity to make money as long as I was willing to do the work required to earn it. When I went away to school, I got 2 jobs ( McDonalds and Dunkin Donuts. I was never hungry ). Momentarily, I kinda held it against my dad because he didn’t just voluntarily hand over money without requiring that I earn it in some… Read more »

Johnycomelately
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Seems to me that a lot of men here who butt heads with redpill theory argue in a manner revealing that they are on the autism spectrum, something which seems to be more prevalent with the younger set nowadays (like nut allergies, who the fuck ever heard of nut allergies 30 years ago? Now teachers carry adrenaline because it’s so prevalent). As someone in a similar situation all I can say is get yourself tested, do an online inventory and then see a professional if your results are high. New research shows the prevalence of oxidative stress in the brain… Read more »

EhIntellect
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@anon K. I believe you. Recent local morning news had 2″report how teenage employment is down as many are choosing year round athletics, other diversions. Had a couple kids staking their futures on whatever non work activity the parent presumably countenanced. Chamber of commerce is a big fan of low teenage employment as then they pay full grown illegal immigrant adults, scared shIitlrss to leave, say anything, teenage pay. Kids can get the work. Its there. Who’s incentive is it for kids not to work? Aside: Every anchor hospital is buildiing a sports training clinic. We have many in this… Read more »

EhIntellect
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“My dad made me the professional.”

Testify.

dr zipper
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@Eh – consider it my contribution to the boy’s buffet selection

Oscar C.
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@ Blaximus I clearly lack that “vital skillset” you talk about. It is really dangerous because in case of difficulties suicide does quickly become an option. In my particular case however I have a hard time blaming my parents. They were always very tight with money and stuff was never thrown away if it still had some value. I am talking for instance about ripping toothpaste tubes open once depleted to make the most of them, and similar little things most people today would never bother to do. I was told to study hard at school and I certainly did,… Read more »

EhIntellect
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< 1 % of today's millionaires have inherited dollar one.

You're probably living next to one.

dr zipper
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all this talk of hard work paying off making you sweat Oscar? lol

I read you as someone with the latent ability rise to the occasion but have yet to actually prove it because you’ve not *really* been tested in life yet

right or wrong, just a guess, doesn’t matter, and no need to respond with a “great advice! but here’s why I’m a special snowflake blah blah blah”

I’m really rootin’ for ya, kid, no lie… but by now I think you’re ready to be posting field reports of your efforts to implement all this great goddamn advice

EhIntellect
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“I have a hard time blaming my parents.”

If you worked hard enough could you blame them?

Blaximus
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@ Oscar You have the capability of changing your circumstances at any time you make the commitment to do so. It’s never too late, and it’s never hopeless. You recognize your apathy, but do you also realize it’s possible to change? But you gotta want to. As far a parents go, I feel that once we are ” grown “, it’s time to let go of whatever our parents did, or did not do to/for us. There’s a reason that psychiatrist always want to know about one’s relationship to their parents, and particularly to their mothers. We tend to hold… Read more »

dr zipper
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yo Blax, ix-nay on the ubble-day ang-bay ang-bay or we’ll all call you a girlie girl

EhIntellect
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EhIntellect
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Someone say party? I’m fucking there. Let me bring my mic.

anon
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anon
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” teenage pay. Kids can get the work. Its there. Who’s incentive is it for kids not to work?”

Well, I don’t think there is an incentive for kids not to work. I think there’s only a certain number of jobs (in the skill set and during the hours required) and if they are filled by others they become unavailable.

EhIntellect
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“I clearly lack that “vital skillset” ”

If you have a functioning penis, you’re half way there.

Dude youre on the precipace of a new life….tonight…and I mean tonight….go out and talk to a complete stranger good looking woman. Dont hit on her, per se just talk the weather, her dress, where she bought it. Shoes, don’t matter. Find one vaguely attractive girl and report back in FR’s.

Dude bro. I can’t experience you how much fun this shit is.

I was fired recently. I’m now well in the 1%.

Do this and you WILL be the prize.

EhIntellect
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‘Round here back of house is spanish only. My son works back of house. Front of house is locals. Skill set? Fuck no. Its budness, baby.

Dont be fooled.

Disney has a business plan based on upping the H1-B numbers. This whole “we need more STEM” is a farce to drive wages down.

Christ! I sound like some OWS schizophrenic.

Blaximus
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6 and 7 year car loans.

30 year mortgages.

2% on savings.

Most people that I know who are older than me bought homes ( no 30 year mortgage ) and cars ( no 6 – 7 year loans ) and put a kid or two through college while doing factory work.

Anyone, and I mean anyone working fulltime should never be too poor to support themselves.

Bidness, indeed.

anon
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anon
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“2% on savings.”

A whole 2 percent? Is that the rate of return?
Wow, that would take only 35 years to double.
Where’d they get a sweet deal like that these days?

Blaximus
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Actually, the rate is more like 1.3 – 1.75 %.

Blaximus
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…. there’s more than 1 Red Pill.

anon
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“Actually, the rate is more like 1.3 – 1.75 %.”
Yep….and that’s up. Been a while since it’s been that high.
But then Japan has negative interest rates. Banks charge you to keep your money there.

EhIntellect
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Japan has negative birth rates.

theasdgamer
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@Intellect

The U.S. and Europe have negative birth rates as well.

EhIntellect
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Japan #2 lowest.

U.S. not in the bottom 25,. Economy, neighbors, lackadaisical immigration enforcement…desire for permanent underclass. 2025 U.S. goes negative. Canada went 2 years ago.

Again, back with the OWS stuff. i gotta get out more.

Blaximus
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The U.S. doesn’t have a negative birth rate asd. It’s falling, but not negative.

Mean Mr. Mustard
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theasdgamer
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@Blax

The U.S. replacement rate is about 1.8. The U.S. native population is declining. Illegal immigrants have babies and that props up the birth rate.

The U.S. has a negative native birth rate. If we didn’t have a shitload of illegal immigrants, unlike other countries, then the situation would be much clearer…but the confusion is by design.

theasdgamer
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@Eh

U.S. not in the bottom 25,. Economy, neighbors, lackadaisical immigration enforcement…desire for permanent underclass.

the main reason is to dilute the whites, who represent the greatest threat to the elites’ program…the elites are shitlibs and shitlibs attempt to force equal outcomes for all races…the elites believe that the white birth rate must be curtailed…the native black U.S. birth rate has also been hit hard…(Africa and the Middle East still have high birth rates)

elites = media, academia, Hollywood, Washington D.C. population, NY Times fanatical readers, “Bill Gates” corporate types

cheupez
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“As far a parents go, I feel that once we are ” grown “, it’s time to let go of whatever our parents did, or did not do to/for us. Especially the bad.

Gold.

I would also add maybe the “good” our parents did may also be a deterrent for our motivation to strive for excellence.

Anon01
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comment image?w=1800&h=2700

Oscar C.
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@zipper

Will post them, Mr. Bad Cop

@Eh

Exactly, that is the point. Have already made some approaches, today I will make more.

@Blax

I am on it right now. I used to think that “positive thinking” was a self-delusion, but it does matter. These past days have been mentally stressful but I am feeling better now. Thanks again.

EhIntellect
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@asd Dilute the whites, that’s true in fact but not design. More at shrink the traditionally right-leaning middle class, replace them with permanent low class servants of the state. “Whereas in the past, conscription brought different groups of Americans together in military service, today people in these groups live separate lives. In addition, whereas in the past, working class whites with just a high school education were able to get good paying jobs like the automotive and steel industries, for example, jobs of that type have largely disappeared, leaving this group frustrated and unable to get ahead in the world… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@Eh This has lead to breakdown in family life and unfortunately high levels of drug abuse, alcoholism, poor health and large numbers of children growing up in broken homes with inadequate parental guidance from two parents.” Murray misses the impact of the FI on all these factors…lack of low-skilled manufacturing jobs have disappeared, but men have adjusted to it…however, men have not adjusted to the unattractiveness of marriage for the working class…of course, marriage is still attractive to UMC men…the skilled trades would be more appealing if massive numbers of illegals weren’t reducing wages in the skilled trades…hard to see… Read more »

theasdgamer
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By “native Americans” I don’t mean indigenous minorities, but Americans who were born here.

theasdgamer
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As to who supports the elites…it is the lower class minorities and elitist sheep living on the coasts and single women (including single white women) of all ages…generally, men (including UMC men) and married women are against the programs of the elite

EhIntellect
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“forcing equality of outcomes on all races”

You’re right. Equality regardless of race. Importation of traditionally social service dependent people helps further that goal. Islam, for example, is severely socialist. The expectations don’t change when they arrive.

Murray does speak of the declining marriage in the lower and middle class.

The plateauing divorce rate is considered not an effect of increased marriage stability but cohabitation. Waiting longer to get married is men adjusting to the FI, less divorces as men are figuring it out.

http://time.com/4575495/divorce-rate-nearly-40-year-low/

Blaximus
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Not to go on too much, as this is a dicey subject to say the least, but there is more than one red pill men need desperately to swallow, although it may be much too late already. Men have not, in any way, adapted to the loss of ” low skill ” jobs. At no point in this or any other nation’s history was all employment ” high skilled “. The vast majority of American workers have always worked at what could be considered lower skilled jobs, although I find that description abhorrent and elitist and akin to a version… Read more »

Blaximus
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….. Illegals and minorities should fix this mess. Lol.

Oscar C.
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Oscar C.
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@Blaximus

Regarding those issues you and others here might like this blog, which is left-wing but opposed to SJWdom:

“The highest stage of neoliberal capitalism is the quite explicit drive for the demographic replacement of the peoples of the developed capitalist Western world.

Neoliberalism and Neoclassical economics place no value on national identity, or social and cultural cohesion, whether of working class people nor of whole nations. Hence the utter insanity being pushed today, as also advocated here by Noah Smith.”

http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com.es/2017/05/the-highest-stage-of-neoliberal.html

Oscar C.
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Also from the article: ““Wages in rich countries are determined more by immigration control than anything else, including any minimum wage legislation. How is the immigration maximum determined? Not by the ‘free’ labour market, which, if left alone, will end up replacing 80–90 per cent of native workers with cheaper, and often more productive, immigrants. Immigration is largely settled by politics. So, if you have any residual doubt about the massive role that the government plays in the economy’s free market, then pause to reflect that all our wages are, at root, politically determined.” Chang, Ha-Joon. 2011. 23 Things they… Read more »

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