Family Integrity

As most of my readers know I have my third book in the Rational Male series coming up soon (very soon, promise). When I began this new book I had an initial working title – The Rational Male, The Red Pill – however, as I progressed I shifted this to Positive Masculinity. I spoke briefly about this in my last two interviews, but there came a point in my compiling, writing and editing where I’d taken a different path in the purpose of the new book. Where I had wanted to explain and / or defend the initial, intersexual, definition of what the term ‘Red Pill‘ has increasingly been distorted away from, I found myself leaning more into expressing ways in which this Red Pill awareness could benefit men’s lives in many ways in and apart from intersexual dynamics.

I’d hit on this in my Red Pill Parenting series from a couple years ago and I knew I wanted to revisit and make that series a prominent part of the book. As it sits now, it accounts for a full quarter of the book’s content, but as I moved into my writing more I decided that the best way to really define ‘The Red Pill” as I know it was to go into the various ways men might benefit from redefining masculinity for themselves in a conventional, Red Pill aware sense.

When I finished the parenting section I realized that I was really laying out general, if not prescriptive, ideas for ways men might better raise their sons and daughters in a feminine-primary social order that’s determined to condition them. My purpose with both the series and section was to equip fathers with Red Pill aware considerations in making their sons and daughters Red Pill aware themselves in order to challenge a world that increasingly wants to convince us that fathers’ influence is superfluous or dangerous.

It was from this point that I’d made a connection; what I was doing was laying out a much-needed reckoning of sorts with regard to what conventional, positive masculinity might mean to future generations of Red Pill aware men. Since my time on the SoSuave forums and the inception of this blog I’ve used the term positive masculinity. I’ve even had a category for it on my side bar since I began too. From the time I began writing I’ve always felt a need to vindicate positive, conventional masculinity and separate it from the deliberately distorted “toxic” masculinity that the Village of the Feminine Imperative would have us believe is endemic today.

In Vulnerability I described this deliberate, but calculated, confusion thusly:

For the greater part of men’s upbringing and socialization they are taught that a conventional masculine identity is in fact a fundamentally male weakness that only women have a unique ‘cure’ for. It’s a widely accepted manosphere fact that over the past 60 or so years, conventional masculinity has become a point of ridicule, an anachronism, and every media form from then to now has made a concerted effort to parody and disqualify that masculinity. Men are portrayed as buffoons for attempting to accomplish female-specific roles, but also as “ridiculous men” for playing the conventional ‘macho’ role of masculinity. In both instances, the problems their inadequate maleness creates are only solved by the application of uniquely female talents and intuition.

Perhaps more damaging though is the effort the Feminine Imperative has made in convincing generations of men that masculinity and its expressions (of any kind) is an act, a front, not the real man behind the mask of masculinity that’s already been predetermined by his feminine-primary upbringing.

Women who lack any living experience of the male condition have the calculated temerity to define for men what they should consider manhood – from a feminine-primary context. This is why men’s preconception of vulnerability being a sign of strength is fundamentally flawed. Their concept of vulnerability stems from a feminine pretext.

Masculinity and vulnerability are defined by a female-correct concept of what should best serve the Feminine Imperative. That feminine defined masculinity (tough-guy ridiculousness) feeds the need for defining vulnerability as a strength – roll over, show your belly and capitulate to that feminine definition of masculinity – and the cycle perpetuates itself.

From my very earliest writing I’ve always seen a need to correct this intentionally distorted perception of masculinity with true, evolved, biologically and psychologically inherited aspects of conventional masculinity.

As you may guess this isn’t an easy an task when a Red Pill man must fight against many different varieties of this masculine distortion. We live in an age where any expression of conventional masculinity is conflated with bullying or ‘hyper-masculinity‘. The Blue Pill teaches that inherent strength ought not to be considered “masculine”, if a boy acts in a conventionally masculine way he’s to be sedated, and boys as young as four can decide their gender to the extent that doctors are chemically altering their physiologies to block hormones and transition them into (binary) girls.

To the Blue Pill Village, a definition of masculinity is either something very obscure, subjective and arbitrary or it’s something extraordinarily dangerous, ridiculous and toxic. As I said, even the most marginal displays of anything conventionally masculine are exaggerated as some barbaric hazing ritual or smacks of hyper, over the top displays of machismo. With so much spite arrayed against masculinity, and with such an arbitrary lack of guidance in whatever might pass for a form of masculinity that feminine-primary society might ever find acceptable, is there anything positive about the masculine at all?

There is only one conclusion we can come to after so much writing on the wall – there is a war on conventional masculinity that’s been going on in progressive western societies for generations now.

I found it very hard to describe what exactly a Positive Masculinity  might mean to Red Pill aware men. One of the more insidious ways that Blue Pill conditioning effectively neuters masculinity is in the recruiting of men to effect their own emasculation. Usually these men themselves have had no real guidance in, or embrace of, conventional masculinity precisely because this Blue Pill conditioning has robbed them of maturing into an understanding of it. Blue Pill fathers raise Blue Pill sons and the process repeats, but in that process is the insurance that Blue Pill sons are denied an education in what it means to be a man.

Thus, we get masculine apologists like The Good Man Project who think ‘real’ masculinity can be found in an egalitarian parity between men and women – rather than our evolved, complementary gender roles. This is a manifestation of years of gender-loathing indoctrination. If men would just apologize for their maleness and all the negative aspects that it’s characterized and defined by, all can be made well. These are the Nice Guys who are accused of using their niceness as a ploy to win over women’s sexual favor. These are the male feminists, who never acknowledge that they are, but who still place the “divinity of the feminine” above their own self-loathed gender identity.

Next we get the men who are all made of honorable intent. These are the guys for whom a rational, firm, no-nonsense appeal to a woman’s reason should be enough to not only convince her of his quality, but he expects her attraction to be based on it. These are largely Red Pill aware men who still hope that old books virtue is something they might parlay into some form of attraction with women.

These tend to be the long game kind of men. When a guy is given to aspirations of virtuousness-as-game they’re generally cut from Beta cloth. I’m very familiar with this from my younger days. I too believed in the Boy Scout 12 point law: a scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. In and of themselves these are noble aspirations, and ones that an old books / old social contract rightly endorsed. The problem is that none of them translate into an ounce of arousal for women.

Dean Abbot tweeted this recently:

https://twitter.com/DeanAbbott/status/857236074493603841

I would argue that since the rise of our feminine-primary social order and the dissolution of the family in terms of conventional (and evolved) gender roles, even with a family, men have little idea of the impact their influence makes. As I’ve written before, women fundamentally lack the capacity to ever appreciate the sacrifices men make to facilitate a woman’s reality. Few, if any, women understand just how their lives are made possible by the ceaseless efforts men make directly or indirectly to ensure their safety, provisioning, security, ambitions and support. This is only exacerbated in a social order that entitles, coddles and overemphasizes women as the gender whose imperatives define our social context.

Family isn’t what defines men’s virtue or integrity, ideally it ought to be a result of it. However, I tend not to deal in “what ought to be” on this blog, I deal in what is. The fact remains that Virtue is only valued and estimated by men on an individual basis.

“There is no such thing as moral phenomena, but only a moral interpretation of phenomena.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche

A lot of well-meaning Red Pill aware men want the old order, old books noble aspects of men to have a reinvigorated worth today. As we make Red Pill awareness applicable in a broader perspective in men’s lives we get to an impasse over what a ‘legitimate’ use of that knowledge ought to be. I believe we get a couple of extreme positions in this respect. I touched on this in The Bitter Taste of the Red Pill:

Game-aware women – the ones who have been forcibly exhausted of all pretense of maintaining the illusion that Game is a lie – feel as though it’s owed to them, in their concession of Game’s reality, that Men should use Game to women’s benefit. Even to the last effort women still cling to the tools of a feminized acculturation;

“Yeah, OK, you got us, Game is really what women want, hypergamy is the law of womankind, but now it’s your responsibility that you use it for the better benefit of society by molding a new breed of improved Betas to accommodate fem-centric monogamy. You owe us our security for having admitted to the grand illusion that’s kept you in thrall for so long.”

It’s an indictment of Game-aware women, and sympathizing men, that they should feel a need to delineate some aspects of Game into good camps (pro woman, pro feminized monogamy) and bad camps (manipulative, polygynous, male-centered). Even in the admission of the truth that Game has enlightened Men of, the feminine imperative still seeks to categorize the application of Game to its own end. That Men might have some means of access to their own sexual strategy is too terrible a Threat; Game must be colored good or bad as it concerns the imperatives of women and a fem-centric societal norm.

I think it’s important that we not allow ourselves to fall into a similar trap with regards delineating what is appropriate use of the Red Pill advantage we have. This isn’t an endorsement for or against ethics in the Red Pill – I’ve already written that post – but it is to emphasize that I think objectivity should precede any pretense to what may or may not be on or off limits in Game or Red Pill awareness.

The Red Pill Moralist

On one end of the spectrum we get men who’ve accepted Red Pill awareness and the truths it presents as a guiding influence to varying degrees. I think it’s a mistake to think the Red Pill moralists are always an ‘Old Married Guy’ who wants to justify his decision to ‘do the right thing’ (no matter how disastrous his personal outcome may be). There are an increasing number of younger idealists who believe the Red Pill aware man has a civic duty to use that awareness in an ethical way that promotes the reinstitution of the conventional family. That may be a noble cause, but I don’t think it should be a straightjacket for Red Pill objectivity.

For the Red Pill Moralist, proper application of the Red Pill is to use that knowledge to vet women for a marriage suitability and a prospective family. With full knowledge of the inherent downsides and liability risks of modern marriage, the moralist takes it as his masculine duty now for the future to still assume the “sucker’s bet”. Needless to say this masculine social-sacrificial position seems more like men running back to the plantation of marriage for unresolved Blue Pill rationales, but I would argue that in a post-Red Pill awareness the belief is that a strong, dominant Red Pill aware Frame control can make the difference to offset the overwhelming risks. The core notion is that reestablishing the conventional family as a man’s civic duty warrants the almost certain prospect of a man’s own detriment.

The moralists have a tendency to disdain or moralize any other application of Red Pill awareness that would facilitate a self-serving or hedonistic purpose. Usually this comes after their living their own lives hedonistically, but also because they were “awakened while married” or just post-horrible divorce. This mirrors a Trad-Con position of encouraging men to “Man-Up” and volunteer for their own fleecing and disdaining the trappings of anything that doesn’t serve women’s imperatives for their own lives – but again as a kind of self-imposed noble duty of masculinity.

This is the flip-side of moralist’s position might be the self-serving use of the Red Pill solely for individual pleasure or gain. This is characterized by the PUA, Game-is-all, guy whose only purpose ends with himself. To the moralist, this use of Red Pill awareness is furthering the destruction of a family archetype that seems to be a solution to societal decay. The Rational Male comment threads are no stranger to the debates of PUAs whose pass or fail, Alpha or Beta benchmark for success rides on what would likely be considered sitting poolside while the world burns.

The last hurdle most men still refuse to get over is that they want women to meet them half way because, despite their Red Pill awareness, they still believe in egalitarian equalism. The most intelligent men still think that women use the same operating system that men do. They don’t, and that’s why these otherwise great men fail with regard to their approach to women. They believe women have the functional capacity to understand men’s motives as if they were any rational being’s motives and agree and comply with them. They simply do not, but unlearning the programming that women should have the capacity to reach some mutually acceptable bargain between men and women’s sexual imperatives is something intelligent men can’t seem to factor.

In Moral to the Manosphere I wrote this:

If you choose to derive your personal value from some esoteric sense of what sex ‘should’ mean, more power to you, but I find it’s a much healthier position to accept a balance between our carnal natures and our higher aspirations. It’s not one or the other. It’s OK to want to fuck just for the sake of fucking – it doesn’t have to be some source of existential meaning. If you think it means something more, then that’s your own subjective perspective – even in marriage there’s ‘maintenance sex’ and there’s memorable, significant sex – but it’s a mistake to think that the totality of the physical act must be of some cosmic significance.

It is as equally unhealthy to convince oneself that self-repressions are virtues as it is to think that unfettered indulgences are freedoms. There is a balance.

While I do think that whatever becomes the Red Pill family unit needs to have some structure similar to that of conventional gender roles, I think it’s important to understand that the new Red Pill ‘family’ will live or die by men’s capacity to accept and apply their awareness of intersexual dynamics. This is one very important difference between an idealized, pre-sexual revolution family and what will evolve in a post-feminist social awareness.

Pickup, Game, really the use of any aspect of Red Pill awareness that isn’t bent to the reconstitution of what I assume would be a Red Pill family unit, is an illegitimate use in the moralist perspective. I think this also goes too far in that Red Pill awareness shouldn’t be limited to what anyone might consider a pro-social purpose for it. Much of what I go into in the parenting section of the new book centers strongly on a man, a father, a husband applying his broader understanding of intersexual dynamics to create a better marriage and family for himself; but I think it needs to be said that all of that Red Pill awareness comes to those men courtesy of the hedonists who wanted to simply crack the code of how to get laid. Too much of either will lead to an imbalance.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

Exercise reduces vascular dementia symptoms. Just walk like you are going somewhere.
Most likely there’s gene expression activated by walking.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/walking-linked-improved-brain-function-161235229.html

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Dr. Zipper I get what’s on display re: pimps. I just happen to dislike the actual pimps. They remind me of this… http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1616792.1392610725!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/clowns17n-2-web.jpg The pimps themselves are a tiny, tiny minority, as are the hoes they pimp. For the life of me I can’t understand why they still get press, lol. They are a bunch of horrible stereotypical cartoons that serve zero purpose in life. Any man can have game. Many men can elevate their game. Pimps strictly use the dumb and weak willed, but people can’t seem to see that past the heels, purple suits and fucked up… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

Blaximus
They remind me of this…

Geeze, what did Bozo ever do to deserve this?

Johnycomelately
Johnycomelately
4 years ago

“The pimps themselves are a tiny, tiny minority, as are the hoes they pimp. For the life of me I can’t understand why they still get press…,Pimps strictly use the dumb and weak willed.”

About fucking time someone said that.

dr zipper
dr zipper
4 years ago

@blax, in agreement to your assessments even though I’ve no direct experiences I certainly didn’t mean to imply being enamored with the bullshit romanticizing of the lifestyle, they are certainly low-lifes living a hardscrabble existence with little to show for it at the end. But like scat to a tracker, we can look past the shit and find some extremely valuable info in it. And that’s my point…. “if girls are just girls” then any other qualifiers for the pimp’s hoes don’t matter. These guys — even in spite of being low-life dirtbags with little true prospects in life —… Read more »

stuffinbox
4 years ago

Positive masculinity in action.

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O07OtRVOm5Y&w=560&h=315%5D

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

Cool vid, Stuff. I used to know some linemen. Making a competition out of necessary training is excellent.

stuffinbox
4 years ago

This was an amazing rescue operation.

http://flatheadbeacon.com/2016/04/27/fighting-fire-with-fire/

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Well said Doc. Alphas are a tiny minority… Red Pillers too. Not every guy can have Game, albeit it is accessible to nearly all. Magicians have magic though.

stuffinbox
4 years ago

@AR

The crew I worked with made a competition out of almost everything,we did voluntary rotation on each job so none were overworked or left out.Fastest pole top rescue was 3min.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

In other news…

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/this-crazy-austin-man-sues-date-for-texting-during-movie/NVZRQcXkONqKuTtSTtX1JK/

LOL. Note how the “reporter” fails to mention the woman’s name. Which is Anita Bath.

stuffinbox
4 years ago

Last one, we did this with six men,one at the base 4 pikers and 1 gin man.

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WmxZdODUlE&w=560&h=315%5D

stuffinbox
4 years ago

Anita Bath,bet she gets paged often.

dr zipper
dr zipper
4 years ago

lol stuffin…. I can just hear Bart calling Moe with that one

stuffinbox
4 years ago

Ya that’s right up there in the don’t name your kid this list with Wanda Dickens,Ben Dover,Red Johnston and Mike Wierman.

dr zipper
dr zipper
4 years ago

and my personal favorite…. Buster Hymann

cheupez
4 years ago

Respect follows the impression a woman gets from her man. Violence must be on the menu, or a real threat of it. If a woman feels a man is incapable of adultery, violence and desertion she will NOT respect him. Shit tests come in quick succession in a man’s life until a woman finds evidence of a younger cuter girl sharing space with her man (not necessarily evidence of sex with her…that is overkill), finds out directly that he is not afraid to use violence, and suffers want when he is well capable of providing. The shit tests frequency falls… Read more »

Peter
Peter
4 years ago

@dr zipper “the devotion, loyalty, adoration and possibly *love* given by these women to men not fitting the FI narrative of being nice, egalitarian, non-asshole types is quite disturbing to those men struggling to understand and escape the BP/FI indoctrinations” Spot on. @blaximus, @theasdgamer and the other pompous stuffy moralists on here who see themselves as the custodians of the comments section are in the bargaining phase of unplugging. They want to cling on to BP ideals when faced with the shocking truths of RP. Trying to obfuscate the simple biological truths of male-female dynamics with side track discussions about… Read more »

Peter
Peter
4 years ago

@cheupez

Totally agree. I think many of the conservative guys on here are shocked by this, but they’ve not been in the game for the last 20-30 years so their real world understanding of it is limited

Peter
Peter
4 years ago

And for those guys who keep bringing up the “Donald Trump Is The Perfect Alpha Male”

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/misconceptions-about-the-alpha-male/

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2007/09/19/defining-the-alpha-male/

He’s alpha DESPITE being married, not because it it. It’s his many secret sexual infidelities and jock behaviour which make him alpha (“alpha” just means lots of girls want to fuck you), not the fact that he’s a good family man.

Peter
Peter
4 years ago

Some more Heartiste maxims to trigger the moral married men on here… * Five minutes of alpha is worth five years of beta * In their sexual primes women’s attraction for assholes is at its strongest. You can catch a lot of hungry flies with honey, but shit attracts the most well-fed flies * A man who has stopped seducing new women is a man who is becoming less seductive to his main woman * Beta males mate guard, alpha males disregard * Men are strictly monogamous only insofar as their options for sexual variety are limited [Sadly Roissy went… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
4 years ago

@Peter They aren’t in such a phase anymore than they’ve succeeded in making their surrounding participants in their lives dance to THEIR tune. They certainly AREN’T pompous. They hit all the spots they have to hit to get what they want and need with their conditions. So they can do as they please with that, even talk to you about how it feels and why they live like they do. You know some women simply don’t have a frame of reference for having that impulse punished in them. That impulse that says “let me push a bitch. let me push… Read more »

B
B
4 years ago

@Rollo – Off topic – I bought your first two books on paper. Also bought Jack Donovan’s first three books. Tried to start with yours but the font and spacing are a little too small to make for easy reading. Moved to Jack’s books. Reading the third of Jack’s books now. Will try to follow your book chapters and read your site online, though I would rather support you buy buying books I can read. I saw you are putting out a third book soon. Please make the font/spacing slightly larger (see Jack’s books for example, using that as my… Read more »

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@Peter

Spot on. @blaximus, and the other pompous stuffy moralists

Kind of funny that that’s how people see you…and you’re still wet behind the ears. Now just go away. Please.

I yawned at your attempt to apply the CH maxims to me. You think you’re brilliant, but, really, you’re just another young skullfullofmush.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

I think ‘Peter” has missed quite a few posts… coming to the party late.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Stuff

Was a jock in college named Mike Hunt, for real, he banged my roomate’s GF and roomie took her back. Up until that point roomie was a very Alphaish frat star. This was the begining of the end for him.

Shark
Shark
4 years ago

Softek said: “It’s been occurring to me lately that maybe as good as it gets is polygamy. Why should men need to compromise and have “golden years” of plate spinning that’s doomed to end in monogamy, or perpetual plate spinning where the women do little else for you than fuck you?” More than one woman living in my household? You’ve just described a living Hell for me. I’m afraid that men with the fantasy of living polygamously have no conception of the reality. The few men that I’ve seen (on the idiot box, not in real life) have all been… Read more »

anon
anon
4 years ago

“Note how the “reporter” fails to mention the woman’s name. Which is Anita Bath.”

She likes anal.

anon
anon
4 years ago

Still better than her other family member, Bawcock E Bath.

Peter
Peter
4 years ago

Keyboard alpha methinks. Come to Rollo’s live talk in Orlando at the end of September and I’m happy to go infield picking up girls with you. Rollo, Christian or Goldmund can decide who did better. Happy to put money down for charity, say $5000 for Rollo’s greyhound charity.

Or are you just going to hide behind the keyboard and tell me to “go away” again?

stuffinbox
4 years ago

@Peter At some point in almost every young mans life,he is forced to come to the realization that the world doesn’t owe him anything. His next obvious conclusion is that slave labor sucks,and doesn’t pay the bills either. Then if he has normal male instincts for reproduction,he will discover that this costs even more money. It is at this point that he either, play along with his feminization and try to game his way into money or take responsibility and learn mastery of some marketable skills. While in this early phase of developement,the fully feminized young man,will hold on to… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

Peter, you’re a rookie. Nothing wrong with that at all, just recognize and embrace your role.

Stop trying to put people you know nothing about into your little boxes here. Go read the comments from November through December. We’ve already done what your attempting to re-hash.

Live your life as you see fit…. Just don’t kill anybody trying to show a chick how ‘ alpha ‘ you are. CH won’t correspond with you in prison and I’ll likely make a meme of you to make fun of in a ‘ remember this guy?” Kind of way.

Rick
Rick
4 years ago

Stop it with the patronising “we’re older so shut up” vibe @blaximus and @stuffinbox. It makes you sound more stuffy and cliquey than perhaps you are.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Rick

Learn to comprehend.

Then stfu.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

Lol, some young cats are so touchy and sensitive. ” waaahhhh stop patronizing meeeeee… “.

stuffinbox
4 years ago

@Rick

Good progress,you are catching a vibe,and your not even stoned. Now just ignore the shut up part of the vibe and say whats on your mind.

anon
anon
4 years ago

“Happy to put money down for charity, say $5000 for Rollo’s greyhound charity”

Wow, that’s really generous! Rollo should give you a member banner or something for that.
I hope you’re not saying you’ll give to Rollo’s charity ONLY if a third party who is unknown to you does something you tell them to do?
That would be like something out of a Monty Python skit.

stuffinbox
4 years ago

@Peter

Now you have the girls laughing at you,in virtual reality. Sucks to be you.

stuffinbox
4 years ago

Don’t be like this little guy.

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBPIfRYYBO4&w=560&h=315%5D

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Blax

“Lol, some young cats are so touchy and sensitive. “

I beleive the term of art is – triggered. That is where we are today, masculinity triggers “guys” as much as girls. It’s impossible it seems for these cats to just observe, digest, reflect and then act if they feel a compulsion. it’s alwys ACT first and beseech the other side to stop. With a descent into snark, rhetorical backflips etc. forthcoming no doubt.

ah well.

all rooted in a very very shallow sense of self of course.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Ah fyi – the movie lawsuit situ… seems girls name is Crystal Monique Cruz.. which was scrubbed from the original story and follow on stories… FI indeed.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:2rWiuQF4bswJ:www.statesman.com/news/local/austin-man-sues-date-for-texting-during-movie/NVZRQcXkONqKuTtSTtX1JK/+&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Brandon Vezmar, 37, of Austin filed the claim Thursday against Crystal Monique Cruz. He is asking for $17.31, which was the price of the movie ticket to a 3D showing of “Guardians of the Galaxy,” he said Tuesday.

Sooo funny

https://twitter.com/BrandonVezmar/status/864656515210383360

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@Blax Careful or those girls might not invite you to their next slumber party. They really don’t know how to act around older men. Probably never taught. @Peter Keyboard alpha methinks. You realize that this is gamma posturing, right? I’m not claiming to be any alpha shit. Come to Rollo’s live talk in Orlando at the end of September and I’m happy to go infield picking up girls with you. Rollo, Christian or Goldmund can decide who did better. Happy to put money down for charity, say $5000 for Rollo’s greyhound charity. I’m not wealthy like Rollo…have to watch my… Read more »

stuffinbox
4 years ago

@sentient

Where is the alpha?
If Brandon could learn anything at all from this “Iasimilated” girl the price of a movie is a cheap lesson.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@Sentient

Was a jock in college named Mike Hunt

His parents must have loved him. Same with Mike Awk’s parents.

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

@Stuffinbox Well said at 6:16 AM. “They all have one thing in common,they are men and face the struggles that go along with that inheritance.” They are also men that developed strength, courage, mastery and honor among men. Also with a flair for honesty (authenticity), passion and dynamism that is not afraid to honor what their soul tells them they want in an animalistic way, nor deny their cognitive brain’s self discipline in a crowded highly populated social world (with a heavy police presence). (Doing so without self-supression.) I’ve been schooled a lot here. Some things I learned: It’s OK… Read more »

anon
anon
4 years ago

“His parents must have loved him. Same with Mike Awk’s parents.”

Punsters are very vein people. She said, sanguinely.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Stuffinbox

If Brandon could learn anything at all from this “Iasimilated” girl the price of a movie is a cheap lesson.

Where is the Alpha? This is an open question. Is this a King Gamma or an Emerging Shitlord? Is this a tipping point, the first salvo, the awakening? Where They are not going to “take it” any more? Is this a spark that will light a conflagration?

comment image

Is this smoke? Thoughts?

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

comment image

stuffinbox
4 years ago

@SJF ” I just don’t have the need to rebut the Peters and the Ricks. YaReally taught me that.” Would you then say that you agree with them? Or that your time is limited and you can’t waste it on someone so far behind the curve? I don’t feel the need for heavy rebuttal,all that is necessary is a little horn rattling. This thing that@Sentient @Blaximus is hitting upon I find intriguing. “I beleive the term of art is – triggered. That is where we are today, masculinity triggers “guys” as much as girls. It’s impossible it seems for these… Read more »

stuffinbox
4 years ago

@Sentient

That is definitely smoke. I propose a lawsuit in Brandons case is fighting fire downhill and he will get burned.

Guess we’ll see.

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

@Stuffinbox Most definitely: my time is limited and I can’t waste it on someone so far behind the curve. And it’s not that I don’t care. I care deeply about The Red Pill and men coming to it. None of this gets my nuts tight or puts me on edge. I think it turns laughable when some one might think to tell me my narrative, when they are too busy not reflecting on their own damn narrative. (and I’ve given a hell a lot of my narrative to define me, while they are too busy not defining their purpose (other… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
4 years ago

A pipe is not a blowjob – to english folk that is…

Off-topic but funny (to me)
My SB 19yo is always the little little spoon but my back was hurting so I made her big spoon for a while. She giggled more than she should have at me saying:

With big spoon comes big responsibility

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@liz

Punsters are very vein people. She said, sanguinely.

It’s spring…

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“It’s spring…”

Leaf, coil or torsion rod?

I had a spring in my step earlier. Fortunately I also had tweezers. From the Vulgar Latin *estudiāre; “to keep, treat with care.” I just might, she seems a decent girl.

stuffinbox
4 years ago

@SJF “None of this gets my nuts tight or puts me on edge. I think it turns laughable when some one might think to tell me my narrative, when they are too busy not reflecting on their own damn narrative. (and I’ve given a hell a lot of my narrative to define me, while they are too busy not defining their purpose (other than pussy) that they give none of their narrative.) A group of guys is a meritocracy. Not defining who you are and what tribe you are working with is not proper form.” Interesting, Peter has made it… Read more »

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

“Is this smoke? Thoughts?” A map is not the territory it represents, but, if correct, it has a similar structure to the territory, which accounts for its usefulness. — Alfred Korzybski, Science and Sanity (1933, p. 58) The Belgian surrealist artist René Magritte illustrated the concept of “perception always intercedes between reality and ourselves” (The Pipe painting KFG posted a picture of) In The Medium Is the Message, Marshall McLuhan expanded this argument to electronic media. Media representations, especially on screens, are abstractions, or virtual “extensions” of what our sensory channels, bodies, thinking and feeling do for us in real life.… Read more »

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

“It sounds now as if you are a self proclaimed moralist (have higher standards) and are taking Rollos shot at the moralist red pill highjackers personaly.” I do feel like taking issue with someone calling me an Old Man moralist (and I’m not sure if I’ve come across as one many times before–probably so. But to that I say Umm, Sorry? I’m changeable). While at the same time I do believe that Rollo’s shot at moralist red pill highjackers is spot on and is recursive to his Moral to the Manosphere essay. I do have higher standards. I’m trying to… Read more »

stuffinbox
4 years ago

Do you pronounce that care-nina or cara-ny-nah?

stuffinbox
4 years ago

By this definition^anyone that has survived life on their own is INTJ. And anyone that has had stuff handed to them doesn’t get the paradox.

Life is a double edged sword,everything about it is a walking contradiction.

stuffinbox
4 years ago

I guess he did call you out personally,while i could just be stuffy or pompous whatever. At least Rick had the good taste to put me in the league with “the Blaximus” I can appreciate that.

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

“Life is a double edged sword, everything about it is a walking contradiction.” One of the best tools in the Red Pill tool chest is a cognitive dissonance equalizer. And once you get more Red Pill Mastery, you will need that tool less and less. I’ll make the same offer to Peter I made to YaReally (…firmly rejected…): Can We All Just Get Along? Under Red Pill Principles? The young guys are welcome to collaborate with and visit the OMGs (and KFG’s going his own way) Tribe. Just understand that we won’t abdicate our MPO and Frame if you visit.… Read more »

stuffinbox
4 years ago

Notice the age of these guys,younger men are welcome in this field.

Notice how slim and trim the flight nurse is,helis have weight limits. these nurses like a little alpha. go figure

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyaoCr_qMvo&w=560&h=315%5D

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

peter
@blaximus, and the other pompous stuffy moralists on here who see themselves as the custodians of the comments section are in the bargaining phase of unplugging. They want to cling on to BP ideals when faced with the shocking truths of RP.

Thanks for the laugh. I needed it.

ollieoxenfree1
4 years ago

I think Peter and Rick have, unwittingly, uncovered the collective insecurities of our resident posters.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

Will the unwittingness never end?

theasdgamer
4 years ago

From the Try This At Home Dept. Maybe my experience will help a few folks. I recently tried to solve a problem. Mrs. Gamer wanted me to call our ISP, who was new for us. I didn’t, and tried to figure out how the fix the problem and succeeded in fixing it. We had also recently gotten streaming Netflix and attached a TV in our family room to Netflix. However, the streaming was very spotty. The signal looked good at the modem, so it was curious. A few important facts: 1) the modem was in the basement below the top… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Ollie

” I think Peter and Rick have, unwittingly, uncovered the collective insecurities of our resident posters.”

And what would those be, to your thinking?

comment image

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

…. shit

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

1 more time, with feeling –

comment image

stuffinbox
4 years ago

@Ollie

Don’t you want to participate in a control group study?

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

Okay, I’ll take a run at this then. @ Peter Welcome to the Rational Male comment section. I will try to keep my pomposity and stuffiness to a bare minimum right now. The stuff your talking about, we’ve already gone round and round about at great length. Yeah, it was a little fun and heated and interesting, but you’re attempting to restart it from the very beginning instead of a continuation. I get it though. You’ve discovered the Red Pill and ” alphas ” and CH and pua stuff, and your noggin is swimming. You’re trying to nail it all… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Ollie

Btw, I have no insecurities at all. Don’t have any use for them.

Wtf would I look like being a insecure 55-56 year old man? Lol. I dropped any insecurities by 1975.

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

It’s taken me a week (and I’m not usually that slow, in general) but I’m finally coming to understand why, perhaps, the essay was called family integrity. And I think it has a lot to do with more than this essay and more thoughts than written here that are buried in Rollo’s new book. It’s not really about family integrity. It is about The Red Pill Brand Integrity. Which I stand by whole-heartedly. I get the understanding about not having OMG’s disregard the value of game by the blue hearted Mysteries, nor the excellent PUA’s like YaReally, nor any young… Read more »

dr zipper
dr zipper
4 years ago

Rollo, I vote to make blax’s previous post (May 17, 2017 at 5:58 pm) a required “I have read this” acknowledgement before anyone is allowed to register/post to TRM from now on.

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

“I get it though. You’ve discovered the Red Pill and ” alphas ” and CH and pua stuff, and your noggin is swimming. You’re trying to nail it all down and internalize everything…. ….For the red pill to actually help you out in the long run, you have to deepen your understanding beyond your actual experience. This requires patience and an assload of understanding.” Sneaky Old Guy Snark Back: “This song is about the detached feeling most people go through life with. It is a commentary on how people cope with the world by withdrawing physically, mentally, or emotionally…..” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXdNnw99-Ic… Read more »

ollieoxenfree1
4 years ago

“I found it very hard to describe what exactly a Positive Masculinity might mean to Red Pill aware men. One of the more insidious ways that Blue Pill conditioning effectively neuters masculinity is in the recruiting of men to effect their own emasculation. Usually these men themselves have had no real guidance in, or embrace of, conventional masculinity precisely because this Blue Pill conditioning has robbed them of maturing into an understanding of it. Blue Pill fathers raise Blue Pill sons and the process repeats, but in that process is the insurance that Blue Pill sons are denied an education… Read more »

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

“If you reduce masculinity down to it’s constituents. You would be left with drive and determination. These are the cornerstones of male identity. Integrity, itself, is an offspring of determination and is typified by a man’s ability to stay the course, in his endeavours. Blue pill conditioning has robbed men of any outward display of masculinity. But a red pill aware man, who has internalised his knowledge (this leads to understanding) and begun filtering his conditioning, should, (in a reasonable length of time) discover his motivation and attained a clarity of purpose.” Drive and determination are worthless in a Blue… Read more »

cheupez
4 years ago

If pompous = Grand and self important; then we all are sort of pompous up in here. And in my experience most people, given the chance

ollieoxenfree1
4 years ago

@SJF “There is no guarantee a guy can make it through Red Pill Triage without him having an actual desire to make it through that triage. Without desire it is hard to internalize and have that motivation.” The desire to embrace the red pill should come from the trauma that brought you here in the first place. From my own experience, the trauma was a new low, in a series of new lows. The joy of the chase and female company was gone and I needed help. The shock of reading The Rational Male for the first time wasn’t just… Read more »

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@palma

We’ve just realised that it is a legal contract with a huge exit penalty.

All risks of exit are not the same. New signers have greater risks.

As I’ve said before many times, risks can be mitigated with proper training of your woman–even for new signers. In fact, new signers would likely gain the greatest benefits from properly training their women.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Doc Z

I vote to make blax’s previous post (May 17, 2017 at 5:58 pm) a required “I have read this” acknowledgement before anyone is allowed to register/post to TRM from now on.

Concur. I was going to give Blax a virtual hug for that post, but I checked the hugbox and we is all full up. Next time.

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
4 years ago

@Ollie
The shock of reading The Rational Male for the first time wasn’t just about connecting the dots as much as my consciousness expanding.

Yeah, that velvet hammer hit me too in the same way. I was searching for a new language on how to relate to people sexually after a long BP life at being a nice guy. Be careful what you look for. What I found totally fulfilled my search (in terms of PUA) but the rest of it totally rocked my world. It’s a good time to be alive and single at 58.

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
4 years ago

All you guys deserve a fucking hug

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

@Ollie

“This is more or less where I am today.”

There ya go. Now that revealing yourself (anonymously on the internet) didn’t hurt so bad. Did it?

Did you scoot hurriedly through denial and anger and go straight to bargaining, while realizing that there is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path?

ollieoxenfree1
4 years ago

You’re coming across as condescending. Which is at odds with how our discussion started.

What I wrote here can be found or surmised from my other posts on this forum.

stuffinbox
4 years ago

@Ollie

“If you reduce masculinity down to it’s constituents. You would be left with drive and determination. These are the cornerstones of male identity. Integrity, itself, is an offspring of determination and is typified by a man’s ability to stay the course, in his endeavours.”

This positive masculinity needs more distilling,really it shouldn’t but things have gotten distorted.

Drive and determination are critical components for a man,these have had roots in exploration,adventure,thrill of discovery and like minded companions.

Roy
Roy
4 years ago

I am a 34 years old level 2 MGTOW (I still have sex and date women, but will never get married, never will cohabitate with a woman nor have children…hell, I’m even branded with the infamous MGTOW symbol). My dad is a dutiful and dependable beta. He started a long term relationship with my mother at the time she was a single mother to the son of an abusive, alcoholic and hitting man; Alpha seed, Beta need. I don’t get along at all with the son of that man. For what I can remember, when I was kid and a… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

“Drive and determination are critical components for a man,these have had roots in exploration,adventure,thrill of discovery and like minded companions.”

The Dynamic tine of the Alpha Triad.

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

“You’re coming across as condescending. Which is at odds with how our discussion started.” Gee Ollie, I have no idea how that happened. It’s not at all like me…… OTOH, let me give you a Semi-Pro tip: Just like the U in PUA stands for artistry in “picking up” women, there is an art to collaborating, hanging out and communicating in a masculine space with other men. I found by sheer luck, accident, skill or learned mastery (take your pick) that my biggest gains in Game came not from targeting females, but having a tribal group of men to hang… Read more »

Diesel
4 years ago

Put simply, I refuse to partake in a social system that churns out women unfit for marriage.

They don’t deserve it. Sure, I’ll improve myself, and maybe engage in an LTR. But why should I improve myself and craft myself to make myself an ideal man for women when they don’t even throw a breadcrumb towards men in sacrificing their own imperatives?

Society needs to change, not men by accommodating unfettered hypergamy and sucking it up.

Man up and marry those sluts.

Diesel
4 years ago

I honestly feel you are giving fuel to blue pill idealists here Rollo.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@Diesel

Your concern trolling is duly noted.

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

@ollieoxenfree1

In regards to my last comment let me present exhibit A to you on how commenter jsolbakken responded to a condescending comment. Observe how he advanced the discussion and responded to a jab at him with aplomb. I’m not doing what I do just to be a dick. Sometimes it to draw out discussion. Sometimes it’s to point out something that a commenter might come to understand about themselves in order to more in the know (h/t to KFG on that trick). Sometimes that’s better than force feeding.

https://therationalmale.com/2017/05/17/state-control/#comment-198207

Diesel
4 years ago

@asdgamer

Thankyou for the constructive criticism and strong argument.

I’ve been here since 2011, and I’ve noticed a Rollo’s work going in a new direction. I can see now Rollo has partially vindicated you of your firmly held blue pill beliefs, you have a newfound authority to cast me as the outsider.

I knew a post like this was coming, but underestimated the smugness of people like yourself.

Congratulations, you exceeded my expectations.

Diesel
4 years ago

I was criticising the red pill moralists myself. In my humble estimation the first book was “improve yourself and women can come along for the ride”, lately I’ve seen a shift towards “the end goal is a monogamous relationship”. Please correct me if I’m wrong. “The last hurdle most men still refuse to get over is that they want women to meet them half way because, despite their Red Pill awareness, they still believe in egalitarian equalism.” So the next step from this is, any man who wishes to suppress hypergamy is somehow blue pill. I understand how any view… Read more »

dr zipper
dr zipper
4 years ago

@Diesel – …”why should I improve myself and craft myself to make myself an ideal man for women…” Improving yourself *for* women is missing the mark completely. You do it for yourself the way you want it to be. What others think — of any gender — doesn’t matter and you sure as hell don’t sacrifice your own imperatives. You do that, I’ll do my part, others here will do theirs. That’s how society will change: by actions. Don’t hope for a logic-based appeal to others, fuck ’em. Just become the badass you want to be and the women will… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ palmasailor Good evening sir – ” But I get it that you have a decent marriage which you work hard to maintain / hold frame / maintain attraction. Good luck to you, I hope you can maintain it. If you drop it however, I think you’ll get hit the same as the rest of us.” I cannot even disagree fully with what you’ve stated. It’s damn near an undeniable fact. But…. I don’t think that a man should have to work ( too ) hard to hold frame or maintain attraction. These things should be a given part of… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Diesel ” So the next step from this is, any man who wishes to suppress hypergamy is somehow blue pill.” Hypergamy can be ‘ surpressed ‘, or maybe a better term is derailed, but it is what it is. It’s part of the firmware. ” I understand how any view that espouses this view can be construed as a man being ignorant of a woman’s hypergamy. And therefore any man who wishes to have women be more accountable for their actions is somehow expecting women to sublimate their own hypergamy and is therefore blue-pill. I see it on TRP… Read more »

If-I-Fell
If-I-Fell
4 years ago

Divorce: a Tale of 2 Sisters I have 2 family members, sisters to each other, who I have known since they were babies. The common threads are that their mother is a feminist. Their father is painfully blue pill—totally supplicates to his wife. All of the marriages have or had the goal of egalitarian equalism. Both girls are kind of lazy and low-energy. One thing that always bothered me about each of the girl’s relationships was that they did not seem to be passionate about each other, either sexually or platonically. When I was their age, I was forever pursuing… Read more »

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