Submission

When I was talking with Anthony Johnson last week we came upon a topic I’m not sure I’ve adequately detailed before. That is the topic of submission in a relationship. One of the more hotly debated subjects I hear and read coming from evangelical Christian women is about a wife’s duty to submit herself to her husband. Anyone who’s familiar with my take on the state of the mainstream church and how feminism and feminine-primary doctrines have assimilated it can also understand why the topic of a wife submitting to her husband rubs many of them the wrong way.

My intent here isn’t dig into something that would be more aptly covered by Dalrock’s blog, but I begin my analysis of women submitting to men in a Biblical context because a wife’s submission to her husband, or in other cases a male family member, is something fundamental to Abrahamic religions. In the interests of social control women were simply told that it was God’s will that she submit to her husband and that was that. Granted, there were some stipulations to that submission for the man involved, but essentially the doctrine was one that placed a man and men’s decisions above that of a woman.

Naturally, Christian feminists and the Feminine Imperative the pervades the modern church (even amongst the men) want to dance around or prequalify this ‘commandment’ such as it is. It’s a very testy subject for a pastor or a speaker to consider because it risks alienating women in the church who for the better parts of their lives have been raised on the narrative of Fempowerment and equalism. It’s my belief that this part of doctrine is so troublesome due to the socialized want of an ideal equalism between men and women in the church.

From a male perspective, and for all of the secular influence of feminism in the church, men in the church have largely become men women simply aren’t comfortable submitting to. Issues of the church aside, women in general are ’empowered’ today to believe they can be self-sufficient and self-satisfied without any male influence. When we combine this ideology of female self-sufficiency with the sad (and ridiculed) state of what passes for masculine identity it’s easy to see that the 80% Beta men in society aren’t men any woman’s hindbrain is going to register as someone she can submit herself to.

When a woman submits herself to a man it reinforces the idea that her doing so is imparting him with something of value. Very few women can completely submit themselves to a man’s authority. I overheard a conversation between a mother and her adult daughter once. They were discussing the details about how and why she decided to marry her father. The adult daughter was dating and Mom was offering her matronly wisdom. In the course of the conversation it was apparent to me that although she’d been married for almost 25 years Mom was an Alpha Widow. What she said to her daughter was interesting, she said, “I love your Dad very much, but there are parts of me he will never know.”

What she was saying is that, although her husband was a great guy, he wasn’t the guy who she could totally submit herself to. After 25 years of marriage she knew that he would never be the man to make her feel comfortable in total trust, but also he would never know the sides of her she keeps reserved (usually sexual) because he’s not the kind of man who can bring it out in her.

Much of the modern divorce-porn (Eat, Pray, Love) narrative centers on exactly this dissatisfaction in women. The hope that’s sold to women is that it’s not too late to divorce your boring husband and fly off to the Bahamas to meet the kind of guy whom she can completely submit herself to. Even if it’s never the case that she takes action on the fantasy the popularity of that fantasy speaks volumes about the state of women and their submitting to men.

In the manosphere we have a maxim that states women hunger after a dominant masculine man. It’s a Red Pill tenet that it’s exactly this masculine dominance that women want to submit themselves to. It’s a large part of what contributes to the tingle effect of women’s arousal, but masculine, confident dominance also stimulates the desire to submit herself to a man who will know how to take care of her and any potential kids. Just as there are two primary aspects of women’s Hypergamous filter, so too does masculine dominance attract and arouse both the short term sexual and long term provisioning aspects.

Why do women hate anal?

This was a question I saw posted on the Ask the Red Pill sub-forum on Reddit recently. Of course, you get the troll answers to it, but I stopped or a minute to consider why it was a woman would be so resistant to have anal sex with a guy. Some guys stated that their girlfriends were into it and obviously anal sex is a very popular niche in pornography. So it wasn’t so much that women hate anal as it is they only consider it with certain men.

Anal is about total submission to a man. It is all about his pleasure and her discomfort in the act. If that man isn’t 100% an ideal dominant Alpha to her, her sexual interest is mitigated by order of degrees. Her genuine desire to initiate sex, and her imaginativeness in sex, will be the metric by which you can judge where she perceives your sexual market value to be. It’s my belief that women’s sexual hesitancy with a man is inversely proportional to her subconscious appraisal of his sexual market value.

Women’s hindbrains will not allow them to submit totally to a man it perceives is less than Hypergamously optimal. Anal is one thing, but does she swallow, is she averse to your fluids (sperm and saliva), does she initiate, does she flirt with you, or is sex something you have to negotiate, make appeals to her comfort (mental satisfaction) or some non-sexual qualification? I got into this topic in Saving the Best, but was she a wild and fun lay back in her college days yet lack-luster in bed with her husband?

Submission by a woman to a man is a reflection of her hindbrain acknowledgement of that man’s SMV. I also explored this in detail in SMV Ratios & Attachment. The greater the disparity in SMV between a couple the more or less likely a woman is to partially or totally submit herself to him. In a modern equalist perspective men and women are conditioned to believe that all-is-one and men and women are no greater or lesser than another in all respects. The idea is that an SMV ratio of 1:1 makes for an ideal relationship. Naturally, I disagree with that assessment, but what equalists don’t like to consider is that there are categoric differences between men and women and one of those differences is that women want to submit to a worthy man’s direction and influence. This is an intrinsic gender difference that not only defines an individual personal relationship between women, but also on a larger societal scale. There are many sociological studies of “egalitarian” cultures where the populations still opt for gender normative roles. And even in sexually fluid relationships there is always a dominant and submissive partner.

It’s my belief that women can instinctively determine a man’s SMV within moments of meeting him. There’s an old saying that a woman knows within five minutes of meeting a guy if she’ll sleep with him. I disagree. I would say that a woman knows if she wont sleep with a man within five minutes of meeting him. That’s the key. Preselection and some other variables help, but her hindbrain knows the external cues and triggers. The more a man must sell himself as a potential sex partner is inversely related to a woman’s hindbrains instinctual uncertainty of his potential to satisfy her Hypergamy. In a nutshell, this is how women’s sexual filtering processes work in sexual selection.

Nature & Nurture

A man’s value to a woman is derived from both an evolved sensitivity to arousal cues, but is also influenced by her acculturation to perceive a man as attractive. Evolved cues are generally what women’s mental firmware make them physically respond to in arousal. It bears repeating here that arousal is not the same thing as attraction. The two sides of Hypergamy are looking for different (sometimes conflicting) aspects in a man. The first is short-term sexual, good breeding potential in a man. Ovulatory shift, visceral arousal and sexual urgency is what defines this side of Hypergamy. Submission comes easy for the right candidate in this sense, and it’s submission born of necessity. If a sexual partner’s investment is something she knows will be fleeting, there’s less to be concerned with in submitting to him and enjoying the experience.

On the other hand, there is also a learned aspect to attraction. There are learned social cues, status markers, cultural cues that imply a good potential for provisioning and parental investment. All this builds up to the attraction side of Hypergamy. For years the manosphere has raised awareness of the fact that women’s provisional side of Hypergamy is largely accounted for by social influences, a larger educational base, and programs that essential transfer men’s resources to women. We can add to this the break down of the conventional family and the disenfranchisement of men’s participation in it while still making them accountable to it and we can see how women’s primary focus in Hypergamy leans heavily to the side of short-term breeding opportunities (Alpha Fucks).

As such the short-term necessity for submission becomes something a woman sexualizes and conflates with that side of Hypergamy. There’s been an ongoing debate for years now about how a man earning less than his spouse is a recipe for divorce. Even though women have their provisioning needs met in various ways, the want, the expectation, is that a man’s long-term value is directly connected to his earnings, status and to a lesser degree his education. Since Hypergamy always seeks a better-than arrangement with regards to SMV, a woman’s capacity to submit herself to a man is bound by what she believes is her better-than due. That isn’t to say a man who excels in the Alpha Fucks side of things can’t maintain a woman’s complete submission to him. Good sex is still good sex, and it’s a strong glue for an otherwise imbalanced relationship, but when a woman bemoans the lack of any ‘good’ men to marry her, it’s this expectation by which she judges an acceptable man. Is he someone she can submit to.

Although the equalist boilerplate would have us believe that house-husbands are sexy and perfectly viable, the stats show that women don’t want to submit themselves to a man who earns less than her, is less educated and whose status is below what she believes her own is. If that sounds like a power struggle you’re not to far off. Equalism teaches women to resist submitting themselves, much less ever doing anything for men. Even the word “submission” sounds like slavery, but in spite of all that there is a root level desire to willingly submit themselves to a worthy man. Romance literature is rife with exactly this submission as its main formula.

“Hell Yes!”

When I was speaking with Anthony last week I answered a question regarding how men might determine the genuine desire of women they’re engaging. I mentioned the “Hell yes!” dynamic as one way. I believe it was Mark Manson who said whenever you propose a date or a drink or some other interaction with a woman the answer you’re wanting to hear from her is “Hell yes!” Whatever the proposition you make with a woman you want her to say “Hell yes I do!” Unsolicited enthusiasm is a very good sign from a woman, and one that can help you determine her genuine desire as well as her capacity to submit to you.

When you get this response from a woman it feels like it’s magic. It’s active anticipation and a real drive to submit. When I go into issues that deal with a man maintaining Frame much of that comes from a woman’s genuine desire to submit to that man’s authority. A woman’s got to submit in order to enter a man’s reality.

If we use the “Hell yes” response as the upper end of a woman’s interest, what follows from there is, by order of degrees, lesser interest. From the “Hell yes” on down any hesitancy on a woman’s part is lesser capacity to submit, all down to “Hell no”. It’s those in between degrees of interest that trip men up. They make poor decisions due to a woman’s Luke-warm desire. They keep driving at spiking interest, calibrating and then reassessing a woman that had only marginal desire for them. In itself this isn’t a bad thing, most PUA Game centers on this process, but it all has a purpose of arriving at a woman’s submission to Frame.

 

337 comments

  1. @ “So it wasn’t so much that women hate anal as it is they only consider it with certain men”

    So true. I was doing anal with a woman the other day, and she suddenly said, ‘I don’t even let my boyfriend do this’. And not only was she really into it, SHE was the one who asked for it, more than once.

    But, don’t want to derail from what is I think a more important part of your post:

    @ ” It’s a very testy subject for a pastor or a speaker to consider because it risks alienating women in the church who for the better parts of their lives have been raised on the narrative of Fempowerment and equalism.”

    This one thing has possibly contributed significantly more to the destruction of modern marriage than anything else, as compared with our grandparents generation. Christianity actually teaches that there’s a hierarchy: God, then the man, then his wife. Modern Christians have rejected this in favor of a more ‘politically correct’ feminist narrative. Combine that with secularism and the influence of feminism, and women are are instead constantly combative (even encouraged to be), and you see the devastation in marriages as a result. I’ve seen really bad marriages that were on the rocks, turned around into literally the most successful marriages I know, when the woman decided to submit to her husband in this way.

  2. ” . . . all [the way] down to “Hell no”.”

    The bottom isn’t “Hell no, I won’t,” it’s “Hell no, you can’t. Direct opposition, whether what you intend to do has anything directly to do with her or not.

  3. Yeah, I’m digging the gif too.

    @ Rollo

    Laugh my ass off!!! I’m reading along, then I get to ‘ anal sex ‘ and I just burst out laughing. Best damn chuckle I’ve had today. Unexpected is unexpected.

    I always council young bucks to eschew the lukewarm chicks. If he can’t raise her temperature because she has some societal installed cockblocking mechanism, it’s a waste of precious, valuable time to keep pursuing her. The ends will not justify the means. Bang and keep it moving quickly. I feel chicks do a man a great service by tipping their hands early with regards to their resistance to come into a man’s frame.

    So I was thinking about it, and trying to put numbers and percentages to the thing. I’d say that I’ve had ‘ anal ‘ with approximately 75 -80 percent of the women I’ve been with short and long term. Not that I’m overly consumed with anal, but it seems to me that it’s kind of a natural progression of sorts. I mean, if a chicks is willing, and tries really hard, but it’s too painful, I’ll not force the issue.

    I’ve always maintained that I expect to get everything a woman has to offer, with emphasis on offer.

    The flipside to this argument, is that men must be sexually dominant and LOVE sex. That testosterone flowing through your veins is some great and powerful shit. Nothing wrong with being caring and all that, but it comes secondary always. A man has to establish himself sexually with a woman, and she has to want to give her very best. When I see a fellow male bristling at something suggested to him by a chick in his life that he’s actively bedding, I wanna slap the fucking taste out of his mouth. That’s failing a sexual shit test. It should never come to that in the first place. She should be dripping with anticipation over what’s gonna happen at next encounter. That’s how you do it.

    Once during a highly spirited banging, a chick I was quite fond of because she had a top 10 body, blurted out ” WAIT!!!! You cannot be fucking me like this!!! “. She was coming ( no pun ) up on her 3rd orgasm, and complaining that it was all too intense. She was actually angry. I mourned because I could take the hint that she probably didn’t even realize she given. What I’d expected her to do was to go ahead and fucking pass out if she needed a rest. Lol. That was our last engagement.

    FRAME.

    Active resistance to coming into your frame is a massive red flag. Zfg, even if she’s an hb10. I grasp that some chicks don’t want you to lose respect for them, or mainly want you to somehow think that they go around anal riding every guy they date. That’s small potatoes and just something you have to blow right pass with your amazing charm and game. But a serious utterance that something concerning you is ” nasty “, or worse, ” repulsive “… Well, she’s issued you an exit visa. Scram.

    Goes back to what I’ve mentioned here numerous times about a ” Ride or Die ” chick. She’s gotta submit to your authority as a man. As The man. And it’s part of your ongoing burden to understand how to pull the ride or die out of her, if it exists.

    Good stuff as always Rollo.

  4. >>when a woman bemoans the lack of any ‘good’ men to marry her, it’s this expectation by which she judges an acceptable man. Is he someone she can submit to.

    This is what underlies much of our social malaise. As Rollo has said, one would expect a woman to resist with all her abilities from being drawn into a man’s frame. The female empowerment and male disempowerment of society means there are fewer male frames which women would like to submit to- and a greater ability for women to resist entering a man’s frame. Thus constant battles and one-upmanship and political negotiations that characterize modern marriages. MGTOW, Red Pill, Married Red Pill, female unhappiness, and the entire screwed up gender dynamics boils down to men not being dominate enough to inspire female submission combined with empowered women more able to resist submitting.

    >>Men make poor decisions due to a woman’s Luke-warm desire. They keep driving at spiking interest, calibrating and then reassessing a woman that had only marginal desire for them.

    But what are men to do, Rollo? Society is heavily rigged against male attraction and dominance which are the same desire triggers needed. With society against good relationships, what else can an upper 50% guy do to gain and increase attraction? I know, lift like Arnold, invent like Elon, and make money like Bill. No worries.

  5. >>when a woman bemoans the lack of any ‘good’ men to marry her, it’s this expectation by which she judges an acceptable man. Is he someone she can submit to.

    This is what underlies much of our social malaise. As Rollo has said, one would expect a woman to resist with all her abilities from being drawn into a man’s frame. The female empowerment and male disempowerment of society means there are fewer male frames which women would like to submit to- and a greater ability for women to resist entering a man’s frame. Thus constant battles and one-upmanship and political negotiations that characterize modern marriages. MGTOW, Red Pill, Married Red Pill, female unhappiness, and the entire screwed up gender dynamics boils down to men not being dominate enough to inspire female submission combined with empowered women more able to resist submitting.

    >>Men make poor decisions due to a woman’s Luke-warm desire. They keep driving at spiking interest, calibrating and then reassessing a woman that had only marginal desire for them.

    But what are men to do, Rollo? Society is heavily rigged against male attraction and dominance which are the same desire triggers needed. With society against good relationships, what else can an upper 50% guy do to gain and increase attraction? I know, lift like Arnold, invent like Elon, and make money like Bill. No worries.

  6. Women are more inclined to do anal today than they were in the past. It’s relatively de rigueur.
    Are women more submissive now than in the past?
    That sharknado-jumping Bill Nye video showed a middle aged fat woman I’m pretty sure would do just about anything.
    I know a guy who met his wife (a wing-walker) at a gang bang. He was number three.

  7. I agree that it seems a natural progression into AnalLand. The old joke goes, “Why do men love Anal so much? Because it’s tight, warm, and degrading to women.” I recently had a threesome (first one in a long, long time) with my regular partner so loves anal and a 21 year old Friend with Benefits. At the conclusion, the newest member of the Backdoor Club told us she had had the most intense orgasms ever — not so much (if at all) during anal with simultaneous stimulation — but because she finally gave in and let go of her inhibitions and and fear, enabling her to reach that sexual Nirvana.

  8. Awesome post! I’ve been re-reading through your book PREVENTIVE MEDICINE, with a focus on the “Party Years. “Epiphany” and “Alpha re-intrest” phases in an attempt to triangulate on some behavioral situations I experienced with my last 4 relationships in the past 10 yrs.

    1. (A) My on agian off agian BPD ex fiance whom I met when we were both 21 and ended it all in 2013 at 27 after I found out she was a former pornstar and was a escort while I was deployed or in another state.
    2.(B) A 25 yo college grad I dated for 6 months during a break from (A). I Cohabited with her just to find out her student loan debt was outrageous, she had medical bills and was delusional about her debt-to- income in comparison to her lifestyle. Not to mention we entered “dead bedroom: after just 2 months of dating.
    3.(C) My GF whom I dated 2yrs(starting in 2014) from 28-30 and even had a pregnacy scare with. She misled me to believe she was a 20 yr old college student just a 30 min drive a way, while in actuality she was a 16 yo High School student on the otherside of the city. It wasn’t until I was helping her Dad clean the Garage out one day and found an old school transcript that knew her actual age. All that Lead me into depression and to the redpill/Rational Male.
    4.(D) a Colombian 37 yo, 2x divorce neurotic NPD woman I tried dating over the last 6 months whose basically tried every power grab,manipulation and psychotic trick in the book. SHE is the living embodiment of the Karpman Drama Triangle.

    I give all that back ground info to ping on submissiveness.

    “few women can completely submit themselves to a man’s authority.”

    We know shit test are coming and frame is everything but i wonder if submission is a manipulation tactic at times. (A),(C), and (D) girls submitted to whatever I wanted sexually(anal included) and met anything I proposed with a “Hell Yeah”. (A) and (C) were the most zealous about physical interaction and initiated intimacy often. (C) also defered to me about everything in general. (B) seemed to be the most trustworthy but was prudish and highly opionated. She blamed the dead bedroom on her birthcontrol affecting her libido and her 60lbs weight gain affecting her self-esteem. (D) was a extremely opionated and fought about everything(non-sexual) after first agreeing to what ever I proposed. I believe the conflict fed her narcissistic supply. They all performed domestic household duties but (B) and (D) brung it up the most as if they were doing me a favor ala:

    “When a woman submits herself to a man it reinforces the idea that her doing so is imparting him with something of value”

    It seems as if they can use sexual submission to lull you to sleep so that they can manage a double life, or by performing “Submissive” task they want a cookie and a gold star for something women did or do since time immemorial within Patriarchal societes. It is simply what they did.Yes it displayed their value to men, but it also want very optional. I know the FI is rampant and female sexuality is commodified, but with femininity being something you literally can purchase nowadays via Sugar Babies and any form of peace or compliance being considerd a gift, how do we know submission is genuine and not another form of exploitation? Open Hypergamy = Open cuckoldry and the AF/BB operating schema promotes so much fluctuating behavior that i wonder if women are now compartmentalizing behaviors into Utility pouches based on situational need. Submission being optional now has made it a tactical strategy.

  9. Submitsion is the response to arousal to alpha. So dosnt that have to be maintained within a relationship to keep it going?

  10. To submit to a lesser man is rape. To submit to a superior man is harmony.

    The fact that many a man needs social acceptance or scare mongering/approval by supernatural forces to believe he’s above a woman is ridiculous.

    FYI, raising women with this mentality helps, but isn’t necessary. Women only do what men allow them to do. Betas and ‘equalists’ allow them to do anything. Keyword: allow.

    To be fair, I don’t blame women for protesting. Have you seen the hordes of weak, skinny/fat, beta losers out there?

    Anal, Swallowing Cum, Public fucking, etc is about a man wanting to see a woman willingly allow him to ‘degrade’ her despite her reluctance. It’s a symbol of his power and her arousal for him. Women in love naturally do things at their expense on their own volition to please a man if she sees him as her ‘alpha’.

    If she did these things with a man before you, but refuses to do it with you, you know where you stand.

    Betas can and do attract women, but there’s a semantic distinction that needs to be made. Attraction =\= arousal. Arousal is a sub category of attraction, a specific form. Attraction means to be drawn to with purpose. It is this purpose that distinguishes attraction from arousal. Does she want comfort or does she desire spunk?

    The purpose of a beta is to be leeched upon, and utilized for ulterior motives including but not limited to: emotional cushioning, a safety net, and as a bio-mechanical ATM machine. Women can love their betas, but it solely means the safety and emotional comfort she feels in his presence. It is lacking desire.

    Arousal on the other hand is attraction, but purely sexual. If she finds you arousing, she is drawn with the purpose of a direct seminal deposit. Contrary to popular belief, a woman’s true love is not in verbal declaration, hand holding, dates, marriage, or cohabitation, but in her sex. That is her most valuable asset.

    Attraction and arousal can coexist, but the difference must be known. If she’s attracted to you, but doesn’t desire you, what’s the point (unless you’re getting a good exchange)? If a woman does not desire me, none of her other feelings matter and any further association shall not take place.

  11. ” Anal, Swallowing Cum, Public fucking, etc is about a man wanting to see a woman willingly allow him to ‘degrade’ her despite her reluctance. It’s a symbol of his power and her arousal for him. Women in love naturally do things at their expense on their own volition to please a man if she sees him as her ‘alpha’. ”

    Whooppsss…

    I disagree with this, although I’ve heard it a million times since looking into the manosphere. Sounds just a little to much like a feminist talking point, the degradation thing.

    Submission does not have to go hand in hand with degradation at all. Just as it is when a woman sees certain acts as disgusting or repulsive, it also speaks of how a man sees these acts as well.

  12. What about animals, Dr Warlock?
    If a woman is REALLY into a guy she should be willing to do a donkey show, right?

  13. This certainly matches with my experience. When I married my wife I was super low in SMV and my wife would barely expose anything of herself – always lights out etc. Since I have my shit together and learnt a lot (mostly from this blog) things have improved immensely. I haven’t got totally to “hell yes” but I can see it not too far off. And I can see my wife is significantly happier too. She doesn’t know why, and doesn’t really care to know, but she is happier and that makes very happy.

    It’s funny, when I particularly crack down on her (usually after a lot of her pushing me for a reaction) I can see how she doesn’t like it, but is excited at the same time. So much so she actually tries and has trouble containing the smile.

    What a remarkable blog this is.

  14. “Anal, Swallowing Cum, Public fucking, etc is about a man wanting to see a woman willingly allow him to ‘degrade’ her despite her reluctance. It’s a symbol of his power and her arousal for him. Women in love naturally do things at their expense on their own volition to please a man if she sees him as her ‘alpha’.

    Prostitutes and pornstars do this for paying customers. Does that mean they love them? I would think not, but ya never know.
    Gold diggers do this for “marks” then entrap them.
    Low self-esteem waifs and crazy chicks do this to whomever is available, just to have a buddy on the roller coaster ride through all 9 circles of hell.

  15. “Submission is the response to arousal to alpha. So doesn’t that have to be maintained within a relationship to keep it going?”

    Most definitely.

    Why do you ask that?

    Even a guy like me who always gets easily into Acceptance mode can easily Accept that. Even of I find it difficult to get my wife into submission mode. It doesn’t bother me. I haven’t completed my mission to get there. It doesn’t stop me from moving toward that.

    I get plenty of Beta tells along with plenty of Alpha tells.

    I still work towards Alpha.

    There is only so much your LTR partner can accept and there is only so much she can deny when it comes to greater beta, lesser alpha.

    I’ve been out to Boston, Mass. For a birthday weekend for my wife. It’s really enjoyable. With spectacular weather on Saturday and chilly weather on Sunday. And a spectacular social scene with very pleasant tourists and natives. And super efficient AirBnB an uber services.

    Yeah, the whole dynamic plays out in real time with submission and all. It’s just a call to red pill burden of performance and awareness of her hypergamy and the call for your best mastery of your game. A call to turn your frustrations into No Big Deal.

    Hell, I even managed to lose cellphone service for the weekend with an Android Nougat update and am able to treat it as no big deal. At the same time I was able to listen to the triad of podcasts that CMQ did with West Indian Archie which were pretty cool.

    Even if you don’t actually reach your ultimate goals, it usually benefits you in moving towards those goals.

    Great original post Rollo, and great comment Blaximus.

  16. Women don’t ever want culpability so any form of submission or hint of submission nauseates them because they don’t want anything reminding them they were wrong or made a mistake. So a woman can submit on some things to a beta provider. If she feels the future is really secure. She’ll move to a new city for him. She’ll pick the house, and slowly take it over, but she’ll move for him. Saw on twitter someone was relaying what was told to him and he said that women are very picky about who they have sex with, but they’ll marry just about anybody.
    Women who are pining for their lost alpha probably hesitate, or don’t like anything sexual that involves a physical position of facing away from their man. Be it doggy style, spanking, whatever.
    The number of women who say they can’t stand a guy smackin’ ass doesn’t fit with the number that actually like it as part of sex play.
    The subject of how men are less masculine nowadays, and that women are actually yearning for them to be more masculine, I’ve often thought that it’s correlated to the number of women, and girls, who are wearing tights/leggings and trying to show off their butts as much as possible.
    There was even supposed to be a fashion trend in Japan about women wearing a fake camel toe thing.

  17. agree with most of it, except that a feminine woman will NOT initiate sex as she waits for her dominant active man to do so while she is being passive and just reacting to him.

  18. Submission is always conditional and based on value.

    In my last girl I was seeing for 9 months she resisted anal. Then did it. Then made a point of telling me she did it.

    Our thing broke down because of the lying and the orbiters. But she stated that she was submissive only in sex. Not in “real life” is kind of how she put it.

    It worked until I’d had enough of her antics.

    That’s why compliance testing early is so important.

    For you newbies here’s an example of a compliance test that the girl failed.

    Flakey 20s girl I’m gaming comes out to a party I’m djing. I tell her: I have an assignment for you. Immediate tingles as she says she’s nervous. I tell her there are two beers in the fridge. Go get them bring them and we’ll have them while I change the music.

    She didn’t. I didn’t engage her the rest of the night.

    3am an hour after the thug finished I get a text: “Ong I forgot the beers lol”

    Clearly her shut test had failed and she knew something was up.

    I replied: when we meet up for drinks you’re buying the first round.

    More banter ensues but I didn’t ask her out again after this kind of failure.

    So the concept of submission has several components: willingness, value, dread, shit testing.

  19. @ The Water Cannon Boy

    “The subject of how men are less masculine nowadays, and that women are actually yearning for them to be more masculine, I’ve often thought that it’s correlated to the number of women, and girls, who are wearing tights/leggings”

    I think women signal their sexual availability as much as their culture deems permissible. Keeping that type of attention in check is a whole different story. Dudes go gaga over a nice butt in some yoga pants because we are sexually enticed and exploited in the west. Members of tribes deep in the jungle probably get used to grass skirts and tits. Hence why they have mating dances and other customs. I dont think the leggings phenomena is a subliminal cry for masculine attention in so much as its for attention in general. Its acceptable to wear lycra and spandex everywhere nowadays. The byproduct is heightend sexual attention. Those with nice bodies get positive masculine attention and neutral or envious female attention.

    @walawala
    “Submission is always conditional and based on value”

    I commented earlier and this quote sums up what I’m curious about. If submission is conditional can it really be genuine? We know we can’t negotiate genuine desire but females do display it for whom they choose. If we misconstrue “submission” for “desire” doesnt that leave us in modern mankind vulnerable to subterfuge? I might be reading to deep into all this but ive been “hustled” before and i see ALOT of hustling going on out here in the sexual market place. Girls dropping the psychological equivalent of a roofie in our ego cocktails. Simply by giving up some enthusiastic anal, texting nudes and fixing a sammich. The whole time her butthole is groundzero for the Cock Carousel, 40 guys got the same nudes and her sammich skills are OP because its her rope-a-dope set up punch before she hits you with the haymakers.

  20. Excuse my riffing here, but I couldn’t resist commenting on this inanity after reading Rollo’s Submission OP.

    Meet feminist Alexis Wesley:

    “For many the idea of patriarchy is some nebulous system that has a cumulative effect of suppressing women. But for me, patriarchy was stone cold life.
    Instead of heavily influencing the system, it literally was the system. It was called “biblical” patriarchy or complementarianism. This system held that
    men and women have different roles in the family hierarchy: the husband is the leader and the wife is secondary to the husband. In this system being born
    with a vagina is the equivalent of being given the “janitor” card during preschool career day. (And being born gay or intersex is like getting the card
    slapped out of your hand altogether.) While I found the system unfair, I lacked the temerity to question it. Every pastor I knew told me that God Himself
    set up marriage this way, and most of the congregants of our evangelical church were well inured to male dominance. I was taught by my church, my
    Christian school,
    and my insular community that the essence of masculinity was authority and the essence of femininity was submission. And this was never more enforced than
    in our marriages.

    The idea of a God-ordained hierarchy or “husband rule” in marriage is still around today. We see it in TLC’s popular
    19 Kids and Counting.
    Although Michelle Duggar and the kids present a
    smiling face to the world,
    I know many women who have been abused by hierarchy in marriage. And many who are abused in this system do not even recognize the signs of abuse
    until they come out of the system.”

    — Ah, yes, the easy solipsistic go-to. Screw Michelle Duggar, she’s probably faking it. “I know *many* women who have been abused by the hierarchy of marriage and they don’t even know it blah-blah-blah. Bull-fucking-shit you do.

    “A blogger and friend of mine, Bethany Bassett, comes from a similar background as myself
    and explains:
    “Maybe those of you who came from Quiverfull-style backgrounds can relate to my own upbringing in which the guiding principle was submission rather than
    consent. Children and women were taught that our bodies were not our own and that struggling against a physical aggressor in a position of authority over
    us was grounds for harsher treatment. Intimacy was something to be claimed by those in power. I can hardly think of a more dangerous mindset for sheltered
    children to grow up believing.”

    — Solipsism 101. Pay attention, gents. Alexis IDs with Bethany due to their similar backgrounds and extrapolates it to all of female-dom.
    Bethany and Alexis’s fathers most likely did not put up with any shit from their mothers and spanked poor Bethany and Alexis’s naughty bottoms a time or two — and are labeled forever as “physical aggressors.”,
    Solipsism=Find a common go-girl thread with a GF You vibe with and deem it applicable to all. AWALThis.

    “When a college friend of mine looked at her own vagina with a handheld mirror she thought she had sinned. We internalized that message that our bodies
    were not our own, but belonged to “God” a.k.a. our fathers and then our husbands.”

    — Yes, and? That’s what the Bible says, precious. Why the negativity? Why not view it as your amazing gift to your man? You have shame of your body that God gave you? Tsk-tsk sinner.

    “The micromanaging that a good husband in our community was required to do was mind-boggling. I was told that my husband was not only the leader in the
    home, making the big decisions, but that he was my spiritual leader as well. It was ultimately his duty to make sure I was praying and reading the Bible.
    He held all the cards. Things like what clothes I wore, how many children we had, how we decorated, or where we lived were issues to be divided up, with
    him holding the proverbial dynamite to blow up any decision he didn’t like. Even in areas where I should have had total control, he had the final say.
    (Spoiler alert: Anyone who has the “final say” has 100% control.)”

    — Again, yes, that’s what the Bible says. Your H is your spiritual leader. This is priceless. First, the dynamite comment alone — purely from the standpoint that she has the power to use that same dynamite to blow up her marriage without prior notice or *egalitarian* consent.

    But, even better, she says her husband had the authority to veto any areas in which she “should have TOTAL (my emphasis) control,” and then goes right on to warn that “anyone who has final authority has *100 percent control*.
    Ummmmm, soooo you should have “total control” in areas of your life you designate? Making you the de facto final authority?
    But 100 percent control of anything from either gender in an egalitarian R is sooo wrong?
    Lulz, Chick-logic.

    “This hierarchical thinking affected me in big ways. I truly believed I was inferior to men. I questioned whether God cared about women, whether I had worth
    of my own, or whether I was even included in ideas like “brotherly love” or “mankind.” Many religious women I know have gone through this stage of questioning,
    and many older women have shrugged this off as a normal rite of passage for girls of faith.

    This also affected me in little ways. My actions were childlike when dealing with my husband. Our modus operandi consisted of me pleading for things I
    wanted while my husband considered them. Getting my way came with being grateful to my husband, who was an authority figure to be manipulated. And I have
    quite a few stories of church ladies giving me advice on how exactly to get my way in marriage without my husband being the wiser or inciting his anger.

    We were also taught that I, the wife, had no real agency. If my husband made a bad decision it was still my duty to obey it as long as it wasn’t an obvious
    sin. Only my husband would be held accountable for the outcome. An older lady in my church encapsulated this thinking with the sage advice, “When the fireball
    from Heaven comes for your husband, duck!”

    Let me remind you that I’m describing the marriage of a couple in their EARLY TWENTIES. It was over a decade ago and my “husband ruler,” who was younger
    than me, was barely able to legally drink the wedding toast!”

    — Read that last sentence again. Total gleeful mockery (my ‘husband-ruler’, shaming of her H through the emasculinizing of the man-boy who is younger than her.
    And, yet, during their early marriage years, he OWNED her.

    “It’s no surprise that a marriage set up with that kind of power dynamic is unhealthy.
    Dr. David H. Olson
    collected data from 21,501 married couples, in the biggest survey of its kind,
    and concluded that
    81% of egalitarian (no hierarchy, equal partners) marriages were happy, whereas only 18% of complementarian marriages where the husband ruled were happy.”

    — Study smells fishy. Maybe Rollo or Dalrock can call BS on this one.

    “Dr. Diana Garland of Baylor University in her book “
    Family Ministry: A Comprehensive Guide
    ” compiled statistics of domestic violence in complementarian marriages from several studies and found that:

    Wives, in traditional marriages, suffered significantly more depression and other mental disorders than men, working married women and unmarried women
    (Bernard 1982).

    In traditional marriages, wives had been beaten at “a rate of more than 300 percent higher than for egalitarian marriages (Straus, Gelles and Steinmetz
    1980).”

    — Lol. And in egalitarian marriages, husbands were (emotionally) beaten at a rate of 600 times of traditional marriages.

    “Violence is more likely to occur in homes where the husband has all the power and makes all the decisions than in home where spouses share decision making
    (L. Walker 1979).

    Dr. Booth and
    Dr. Amato
    did a longitudinal study spanning over 20 years and following the lives of 2,000 men and women between 1980 and 2000. It was found that complementarian
    marriage was very hard on both husbands and wives. Dr. Amato concluded, “If the wife goes from a patriarchal marriage to an egalitarian one, she’ll be
    much happier, much less likely to look for a way out. And in the long run, the husbands are happier too.”

    — So, please explain to us why the (overwhelmingly wife-initiated) divorce rate is still around 70 percent in a femme-centric egalitarian-promoting society?
    Seems like a lot of wives are still looking for this “way out.” Even with their dutiful equal partners. Hm, why do you suppose that is?
    Here’s a hint: It starts with the letter ‘H’. … and it ain’t hierarchy.

    “Dennis J. Preato
    collected these studies and more
    to conclude that because of hierarchy in marriage “so many Christian marriages end in divorce and many who remain together live in unhappy marriages.”

    It’s not that I was unaware of the fact that I was unhappy within this system. It’s just that I cared more about pleasing God and entering Heaven than
    about being happy. I was exceptionally good at covering my doubts with a religious high that came through prayer. And I wholeheartedly swallowed the lie
    that any unhappiness was the result of personal sin, not the system itself. I really thought that God would only be pleased if I was the obsequious, submissive
    wife.”

    — AKA, Fuck you, and this Biblical nonsense, hubby; I’m Un-HAAAAAAPPy that I can’t get my way.

    “Like many evangelicals raised in biblical patriarchy, longitudinal studies and common sense were not enough; it took nothing less than study of the Bible
    to convince me that egalitarianism is
    clearly valid for Christians.
    Each time I read about women in the Bible it was like tiny tectonic shifts to my belief system. Finding out that the
    biblical household codes
    were written in the context of ancient Greco-Roman patriarchy helped me break away from complementarianism completely. It’s funny that while my childhood
    church has hung onto those biblical directives to wives, making womanly submission their raison d’être, they have largely ignored the messages to slaves,
    considering them irrelevant. (At least modern Christians have.) Of course slaves and wives were lumped together in the household codes of scripture, just
    as they would be when written in a time of father rule where the oldest man ruled like a king over his wife or wives, grown sons and daughters, and household
    slaves. Pax Romana was even thought to rely on this household structure. America? Not so much. Modern Christianity?
    Not at all.”

    — Your “study of the Bible that condones egalitarianism??” Yes, sweetie, there is a word for this … the self-interpretation of Biblical text for your own purposes … it’s called heresy.

    “Once free to think for myself, it was seeing how gay and lesbian couples did marriage that undid a lot of my former thinking. Do you know why religious types
    ask lesbian couples who the “man” is in the relationship, or gay couples who the “woman” is? I would argue based on my own experience that “biblical” hierarchy
    in marriage has preoccupied so much of conservative thinking that the idea of a marriage of equals becomes so intensely terrifying (and exhilarating) they
    cannot handle it. Who gets their last name changed? Who wears the pants? Who puts their foot down? If we cannot base a power structure on genitalia, we’re
    lost! And the transgender community just totally baffles the patriarchy, leading to confusion on why transwomen would want to be downgraded to the submissive
    ones, and accusations that transmen just want to be upgraded to authority.”

    — Whoa, waaaay outside the topic of Biblical patriarchy. Not a whole lot of Bible ink dedicated to the sanctity of marriages involving ‘trans-women’ and ‘trans-men.’

    “Can this explain Michelle Duggar’s
    transphobic phone message or Josh Duggar’s demonizing of gay and lesbian couples?
    Maybe. Maybe not entirely. But I bet the Duggars, like my church were, are just trying to please God. And that’s scary. Because I have to realize with
    some degree of abject horror that the Duggars could have easily been us. Been me.

    Escaping toxic views of marriage and women was hardly a panacea for all the effects of sexism that had permeated my worldview. But it was a start. It was
    met with one male family member writing to tell me, “You want to be equal with your husband. Satan wanted to be equal with God. […] Are you glorifying
    your husband and God with your attitude?” (When my husband asked what I was reading I told him, “About how I’m Satan now.” He just said, “Cool.”)

    But despite the backlash, my feminist husband and I got to discover what a marriage of equals produces. Our parenting improved. Sex improved. Our decision-making
    improved.

    And just like the studies predicted, our happiness improved.”

    — And this is the most shocking part of her whole nauseating trope. She is still married to the same husband she openly shamed as being a man-boy ‘ruler-husband.’ A commenter (like anyone reading this) wondered if she was on her second marriage with a new ‘feminist’ husband and she is not.

    She apparently flipped her one and only husband from a husband with strong initial frame to a toothless feminist beta blue pill chump now residing exclusively within hers.
    And now she’s haaaaaapy.
    The greater question is: Is she?

    Can you hear that?
    Tick-tick-tick-tick (insert emoji of a marital time bomb)

    http://www.theradicalnotion.com/harm-wifely-submission-marriage/

  21. Ajax, that’s just the tip of an entire submerged glacier. The net is chock full of conservative feminists, radical feminists, intersectional feminists, equity feminists, and a whole long list of feminists who are all about smashing Teh Xtian Patriarchee. Often they have drunk deep of the well of VAWA and are always ready to see “abuse” in any man who isn’t totally subservient to his natural superior, any random woman.

    It’s a cottage industry, these girls review each others books, help organize each others seminars and always have each other’s backs on the web.

  22. @Shaka

    >If submission is conditional can it really be genuine? We know we can’t negotiate genuine desire but females do display it for whom they choose.

    Submission can be coerced. Desire can’t.

  23. I think its all rather straight forward.
    Woman want to be dominated and submissive. They will only do it with an alpha / assertive male they can fully let go with in sex, and I mean fully. This is the feeling they crave, where they can totally let go of their mask, be fully be relaxed and submissive and let the man work her body and mind over. And why, because its highly enjoyable and pleasurable.

  24. Getting married is Blue Pill (provider). Being religious is Blue Pill. I’m amazed that Rollo doesn’t see this. Red Pill is feral and wild and pretty fucked up. It’s the real alpha guys dominating and sticking their dicks into as many young hot girls as possible then doing a runner.

    I know it’s hard to stomach but that’s the truth of biology. A real “Red Pill father” is one who impregnates a girl then leaves her so another guy has to raise his child.

    And another thing that is never touched on here (it is dark but true) is that women LOVE being dominated as you say and submitting to dangerous violent men. So Islam and the invading men are far more Red Pill than the Blue Pill guys of the west. Sick but true.

  25. A small epiphany moment with this essay for me.

    On the subject of Church: the last time I was in Church (a Cathedral) the Right Reverend (male) was waxing lyrical about the wonders of Open Borders even though one of the vibrant entrants had attempted the previous week Murder in the (cloisters of the) Cathedral. Was it any wonder wonder with that level of cuckdom that the to-be enthroned Bishop was female.

  26. Much of the modern divorce-porn (Eat, Pray, Love) narrative centers on exactly this dissatisfaction in women. The hope that’s sold to women is that it’s not too late to divorce your boring husband and fly off to the Bahamas to meet the kind of guy whom she can completely submit herself to. Even if it’s never the case that she takes action on the fantasy the popularity of that fantasy speaks volumes about the state of women and their submitting to men.

    This post is probably a good place for this comment. I intended to leave some comments on previous posts but did not do so.

    First, Rollo, I want to take this opportunity to thank you again as your writings were instrumental in my personal unplugging from the matrix many years ago. I owe you a debt of gratitude than can never be repaid. With the passing of Private Man, I wanted to mention that.

    Regarding marriage/Blue Pill/Red Pill etc. let me offer these thoughts. My own marriage, my 2nd recently ended. My wife left 2 weeks ago, and then followed up with an e-mail informing me she had begun divorce proceedings. I consider myself someone who has fully internalized Red Pill views/beliefs and I went into this marriage with that perspective, but here is the thing. No matter how Red Pill you are, the rest of the world is Blue Pill, and in your marriage doesn’t exist on an island of isolation. There is alot of potentially Blue Pill advice that can influence the woman to call it quits. In Blue Pill world, there are certain expectations on the man, and if you don’t live up to those, it can be problematic.

    As of right now, I’d have to say I do believe men should avoid marriage or at least go into it with a full understanding of potential pitfalls in a Blue Pill world, maybe there is a post here Rollo. One big problem is you have plenty of institutions feeding the divorce porn narrative including Churches and social media. Facebook is absolutely insidious because a woman can go to Facebook and get instant validation of her marriage dissatisfaction plus support for unrealistically high appraisals of her own SMV. There are plenty of people of both sexes willing to tell her how gorgeous, sexy, hot she is without the ability of the real dating market to introduce her to reality of her SMV as defined by the actual quality of men interested in her. So she blows up her marriage because of her validated righteous dissatisfaction and only will time teach her what awaits on the other side like Eat Pray Live woman. This is further compounded because in marriage you can’t really Spin Plates per se, and inducing “Dread” is more problematic so it is difficult to get across to her the SMV of the husband and his real options on the dating market.

    If there is one Red Pill aspect to my situation, I can say that I didn’t beg or plead for her to come back as I realized that if I did that what I would be getting back would no longer be worth having. She couldn’t come back under the condition of me prostrating myself and setting up a dynamic where she is the “prize” and I am lucky to have her. The relationship dynamic would have been wrecked forever. So I let her go. In time, she will be hitting me up and it is just a question of whether I completely blow her off, or just enjoy some company and sex, but she has to venture into the real dating market and experience the reality of what is out there.

    So marriage is tough in this world where there are many institutional forces of a blue pill nature ready and willing to feed into a woman’s dissatisfaction or hypergamy subroutine that she can “do better” and once you are married alot of the power of the guy is taken away by social and legal institutions

  27. Radawn, go back to comments from about 6 months ago. We already did much of the ‘ marriage is beta\ blue pill thing.

    Red pill doesn’t automatically denote ‘ alpha ‘ alpha doesn’t automatically denote child abandonment.

  28. Its acceptable to wear lycra and spandex everywhere nowadays.

    Damn right. This HB10 blond chick shows up to my motorcycle course (parking lot riding) yesterday in yoga pants. Very distracting.

    Oh, and it was a rainy day too. I had full rain gear on…

    @Blax
    The flipside to this argument, is that men must be sexually dominant and LOVE sex. That testosterone flowing through your veins is some great and powerful shit. Nothing wrong with being caring and all that, but it comes secondary always. A man has to establish himself sexually with a woman, and she has to want to give her very best.

    Wise and true words! She has to feel you’re enjoying yourself. My feeling is she wants to be objectified when having sex. Her hindbrain is fulfilled when this happens.

  29. Garfunkel & Oates, then, not only mocked virginity but subversively dissed submission (my guess: Lindhome is an alpha widow and submitted hard; Micucci I don’t think so).

  30. Red pill doesn’t automatically denote ‘ alpha ‘ alpha doesn’t automatically denote child abandonment.

    People often seem to conflate these ideas. The red pill represents arrival of some knowledge or understanding of human dynamics that you previously did not grasp. It is miles away from auto-transforming a man into an alpha male, as was just re-emphasized in the essay describing the difference between understanding your prison and breaking out of it.

    Alpha males are accustomed to enjoying the fruits of that status, which may easily include their own offspring. They like to watch them try and learn, and they like to mold their development. These are alpha traits. An alpha male is not automatically a cad anymore than a red pill aware man is automatically an alpha male.

  31. Red pill doesn’t automatically denote ‘ alpha ‘ alpha doesn’t automatically denote child abandonment.

    Red pill is a toolbox. Which tools you choose to apply to any life situation is entirely up to you.

  32. Wow… this bit Doc?

    Anal, Swallowing Cum, Public fucking, etc is about a man wanting to see a woman willingly allow him to ‘degrade’ her despite her reluctance. It’s a symbol of his power and her arousal for him. Women in love naturally do things at their expense on their own volition to please a man if she sees him as her ‘alpha’.

    Thinking that particular sex acts are “degrading” or done at “her expense”… these are Dog concepts… rooted in validation seeking, insecurity and Dog HoF topics such as honesty, honor, loyalty, courage, trust. For Cats, sex just is… it is all the same when she is aroused.. now that is the key, pointed out by Wala and Blax… If she is not doing whatever you want it is just arousal. There are no bonus points for particular acts.

    This song is all you need to know about women and their thought son sex… I prefer the Blondie version but couldn’t find it on youtube other than the live version.

    A soundtrack to orgy by…

    Ooh
    It’s so good, it’s so good
    It’s so good, it’s so good
    It’s so good
    Ooh
    Heaven knows, heaven knows
    Heaven knows, heaven knows
    Heaven knows
    Ooh
    I feel love, I feel love
    I feel love, I feel love
    I feel love

    I feel love, I feel love, I feel love

    Ooh
    Fallin’ free, fallin’ free
    Fallin’ free, fallin’ free
    Fallin’ free
    Ooh
    You and me, you and me
    You and me, you and me
    You and me
    Ooh
    I feel love, I feel love
    I feel love, I feel love
    I feel love

    I feel love, I feel love, I feel love

    Ooh
    I’ll get you, I’ll get you
    I’ll get you, I’ll get you
    I’ll get you
    Ooh
    What you do, what you do
    What you do, what you do
    What you do
    Ooh
    I feel love, I feel love
    I feel love, I feel love
    I feel love

    I feel love, I feel love, I feel love

    All feelz… all in the moment… all there for your pleasure… Just do whatever you want to whenever you want to…

    Interestingly, never had a girl not swallow… never had to ask. seems strange to do so? Done anal a few times, again, was just OK another hole slip it in, no big deal, no talk etc…. To me anal is meh… more trouble than it’s worth, perfectly good pussy right there… but I guess it is trendy now

    So yes, Red Flag if she is setting boundaries for you and not swallowing etc. But know it as a diagnostic – i.e. she ain’t all that attracted to you – not as a validating or de-validating act.

    There was one dude over at MMSL, MIddleman I think, who was married for 5-6 years or so. His wife never swallowed. It bothered him. For a year he MAPPed Hard (TM) in the way that the Purple Pill guys love – the easy stuff like lifting, tough mudding, new clothes, earning more money… and never quite got around to The Hard Work like smashing her shit tests and running dread… So he keeps trying to get her to swallow… and trying and trying… and it becomes a Big Thing… every time they have sex now it is the elephant in the room… Of course, she goes on to having an affair with a theater director, she had gotten back to community theater to “grow and develop” and this was all encouraged by the Purple Men and all the women there… I bet she swallowed…

    Coda – first date post his quick divorce woman blows him and swallows… LOLZ.

  33. @earthling

    Just now on reddit theRedPill
    “Hormones associated with the menstrual cycle appear to drive sexual attraction more than we know”

    So, to test this theory, that hormones drive sexual desire significantly in women, let’s consider the sexual desires of post-menopausal women, who ostensibly have lower levels of sex hormones than mensing women do.

    https://www.menopause.org/for-women/sexual-health-menopause-online/changes-at-midlife/changes-in-hormone-levels

    I’ve observed that menopausal women often have significant sex drives when a man with SMV +2 or more is around them. How can this be if sex hormones, especially testosterone, contribute significantly to a woman’s sex drive?

    Why are so many supposedly Red Pill ™ men so invested in the idea that sex hormone levels in women have much to do with their libido as regards alphas?

  34. For a year he MAPPed Hard (TM) in the way that the Purple Pill guys love – the easy stuff like lifting, tough mudding, new clothes, earning more money… and never quite got around to The Hard Work like smashing her shit tests and running dread…

    Fuck this was me before I blew it up after 28 years. Before RP. Probably it was too far gone to have helped.

    Sure helps now…

  35. I’ve observed that menopausal women often have significant sex drives when a man with SMV +2 or more is around them. How can this be if sex hormones, especially testosterone, contribute significantly to a woman’s sex drive?

    I’ve had a PM 52yo give it to me pretty easily. And yeah, my SMV was way higher. Don’t know if she was on HRT.

    I don’t think the hormone aspect completely explains all. It’s just another part of the puzzle.

  36. Women want to be submissive and that’s a fact. In fact, she’s happier this way. Look how hard it is to get women away from abusive /controlling men. I don’t think a woman wants a man who beats her, but on the other hand, it’s clear who the dominant one is.

    I read of a study that said over 40 percent of college aged women who suffered date rape or attempted date rape continued to have consensual sexual relationships with their rapist. That’s a significant minority, almost half. And they were more likely to continue a relationship if the rape was successful rather than attempted. Stranger rape was a different story.

    The theory is that only a “dominant” man would have the physical and mental strength to make her sexually submit. And her hindbrain reads it as such. Most tend to think of rapist as guys who can’t get any so they resort to rape. That’s only true in some cases of stranger rape.

    The typical date rapist is usually a man more sexually experienced than men who are non date rapist as measured in more consensual partners. But, he tends to rate highly in the big 3 Dark Triad characteristics. And men who have more of those characteristics tend to do better with women.

    He also tends to hold “sexist” attitudes toward women like women ought to be submissive. That type of rapist rarely resorts to weapons as generally speaking, he tends to be the strong, athletic type and could likely intimidate most women without having to resort to weapons and only uses the amount of force necessary to gain compliance.

    He shares many of the same characteristics with physically abusive men and often times can be one in the same.

    This is information you’ll never hear. A woman will stay with a man who raped her and continue to have consensual sexual relations with him, but the nice guy who spends his last dime on her, acts as her chauffeur and butler all rolled into one with the hope of earning sex from her, she’ll overlook him.

    https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/04/04/the-wickedest-links/

    https://books.google.com/books?id=HX0GFEpaXUEC&pg=PA64&lpg=PA64&dq=tactics+of+date+rapist&source=bl&ots=Da5eA80bUV&sig=u9h3mDDemZ-UB62qOIwea0mFKLQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwigtu3tnujRAhUJS2MKHYRQCnc4FBDoAQgyMAk#v=onepage&q=tactics%20of%20date%20rapist&f=false

  37. @earthling

    I don’t think the hormone aspect completely explains all. It’s just another part of the puzzle.

    I think that betas rely on increased T-levels in women to get sex. Alphas can cause a libido spike in women at will, so they don’t rely on women’s hormone levels.

  38. I read a story in Playboy some time back. I think it was one of the Brooke Burke covers. Anyway the story was by a woman talking about anal sex. She talked about how “A-man” “fucked her into her femininity” as she had to actively be passive. I don’t remember if she was still banging the dude or was “alpha-widowed” by him.

  39. How do make a hormone? Don’t pay her.

    @morpheus – So right about the pressures and influences outside the marriage. And the same for your resolve to not supplicate to get her back. Sometimes Humpty Dumpty can’t be put back together.

    I myself failed at holding the marriage together while transitioning to a fully RP mindset. Things were going well and I had thought we were over the roughest part. Not to blame or gloss over my own fuckups, but the additional FI voices whispering into her ear can be a major handicap to making it work out even if I was the perfect RP alpha. This means you must climb the mountain carrying all your own baggage, but do it while getting face-kicked by the FI jackboots.

    One thing I have wondered…. did any of my wife’s family, friends and advisors recommend she stay with me or was it all you-go-girl cheerleading?

  40. “I read of a study that said over 40 percent of college aged women who suffered date rape or attempted date rape continued to have consensual sexual relationships with their rapist.”

    These tend to be the Sulkowicz types who’ve been convinced by La Feminista that it’s rape if the guy doesn’t return her text messages the morning after.

  41. Re: growing Islamic demography.

    IMO the narrative is such as it reinforces a Muslim dominance, the inevitable western death. Dominant Muslim men, submissive Muslim women. Lots of babies, right? Buy your prayer rug now while they’re cheap!

    Wait a moment…

    “Notably, four of the ten greatest fertility declines ever recorded in a 20-year period took place in the Arab world (Algeria, Libya, Kuwait, and Oman); adding in Iran, we see that five of these “top ten” unfolded in the greater Middle East.”

    “Fully eighteen of these Muslim-majority places saw tfrs fall by three or more over those 30 years — with nine of them by four births per woman or more! In Oman, tfrs plummeted by an astonishing 5.6 births per woman during those 30 years: an average estimated pace of nearly 1.9 births per woman every decade.”

    http://www.hoover.org/research/fertility-decline-muslim-world

    Months back, a TRM London commenter dispelled the idea of Alpha-dominant Muslim men. He described how the local Muslim, Hindu men were worker bees, the wives gossipy, lazy, fat (but cooked well). The men were betatized essentially.

    Personally, I’ve experienced Iraqi Muslims steal a water pump from a neighboring tribe, that tribe then picking up their small arms and shooting it out, with the US civil affairs buying a new pump to get these thugs to cease fire. This is the mindset of “dominant” Islam. Only in the west, with western ideals, predicated on Christian morality (not churchianity), do Muslims live better off, not in a perpetual vendetta.

    Ever been down a Kuwaiti highway? Have you read too the PSA road sign that curtly reminds the younger generation, “Imagine Kuwait without oil”? The local governments realize the poor Muslim cultural footing, the footing stabilized only by oil money, without which everything collapses. Muslim majority countries without oil…

    Islam is a religion, one that brooks no dissent to its own contramanding principles of faith, not facts. Sounds like the FI to me. Dominant Islam, as the FI, is a mile wide but an inch deep.

    I admit and am guilty of discussing Alpha/Beta in binary terms. It’s simpler that way, makes for lively argument. Cuck or be cucked. Violence=Dominance=Alpha=Victory. Anything less is Beta.

    It’s true if I’d accept living in a Raqqa-like hellhole. I don’t though.

  42. dr zipper
    One thing I have wondered…. did any of my wife’s family, friends and advisors recommend she stay with me or was it all you-go-girl cheerleading?

    Women can and will rewrite their own history, so you can’t really ever know. It may be difficult to let go, but there’s nothing gained by ruminating over it. This is why it matters what her friends are like.

  43. I think that betas rely on increased T-levels in women to get sex. Alphas can cause a libido spike in women at will, so they don’t rely on women’s hormone levels.

    I’ve made this point before, but while ovulatory shift in women can be a boon or a bust for a guy, a Game savvy man can push past it or use it to his advantage. Women’s sexual peaks are definitely cyclic and are influenced by her hormones and wiring, but Hypergamy also can’t afford to be a slave to those influences. If the guy is a ‘hell yes’ man to her, she’ll bang him irrespective of where she is in her menstrual cycle in order to sustain an Alpha’s interest in her.

    There are studies that show women will fake orgasms most with more Alpha men. Beta Nice Guys like to think that’s because Alphas don’t care about the pleasure of women and women are just doing their egos a favor. The real truth is that they do so in order to keep an Alpha interested in her when she’s not in her proliferative phase of ovulation. Beta’s simply aren’t worth faking anything for because sex with them is always transactional.

    There is a definitive estrus phase for women, but if she encounters a high value Alpha when she’s not in it she’ll still ignore her mood if it means she might keep him around until she is in estrus.

  44. @AR – yep, it IS tough to let go; I also knew most of the same ‘friends’ so it seems like more betrayal piled onto an already shitty situation

    Her friends are all divorced and/or single save one. Funny thing, the one that’s still married is the one that gave me the strongest IOIs and who I could have bent over had I the inclination.

    Obviously still some anger. I use it to fuel my RP transition. Writing about it here is a tremendous help, thanks for the feedback.

  45. @ Chris

    “These tend to be the Sulkowicz types who’ve been convinced by La Feminista that it’s rape if the guy doesn’t return her text messages the morning after.”

    I think that’s a rationalization to get around the uncomfortable truth about female sexuality. Evolutionary biologists have theorized that rape, particularly the date/acquaintance kind, was a way for men to get continuing access to sexual partners. Since sex, regardless of consent, meant babies in the distant past, the woman would do better to attempt to bond with the man so that he could provide for her and her offspring.

    Stranger rape was different because women could be left pregnant, without any man to care for her, since he would not be able to use her womb for his own offspring. Also, with stranger rape, her odds of being impregnated by a “low status” man was higher.

    I’ll find the study, but women tend to instinctively perceive rape by a “high status” man as a lesser offense than rape by a low status man. Assuming that the high status man in question doesn’t leave her with serious injuries.

    One can argue that if a woman is on a date with a man, she at least for the moment, considers him “high status” and may even have been willing to sleep with him consensually at a later time.

    If you remember back in 2008 I think it was, that Dutch reporter who was captured and held for ransom by the Taliban guerilla leader. Well, apparently he liked to rape his female captives after a long, hard day of killing enemy soldiers.

    The reporter was eventually rescued, but she had nothing but good things to say about the Taliban guerilla leader who raped her and threatened to behead her if her government didn’t pay up. She said he was a “nice guy” because he offered her “tea and biscuits”. The first time or 2 he had her may have been rape, but the third, fourth , fifth time likely was consensual on both ends.

    In our close cousins, chimpanzees, male sexual coercion of female chimpanzees was correlated with greater reproductive success for males, as opposed to waiting to be chosen by the female. Ironically, those who waited to be chosen tended to be more “low status”. And not just using coercion to get the female to mate, but to stop her from mating with other males. And when female promiscuity is higher, the chimpanzees are more likely to use coercion.

    Also, for much of human history, kidnapping and subduing the women of the neighboring tribe was how young warriors got wives. Even in the bible, whether or not you think those stories are literally true, there are passages in their where men who go to war are able to take women captives as wives and concubine. Unless specifically instructed to kill everyone.

    Lest it escape anyone, those bible stories supposedly took place in the near and middle east, the same area where the refugees going on rape sprees around Europe come from. So that attitude of seeing women, especially women of other tribes as fair game is ancient.

    Now the captured women who resisted probably were killed and didn’t get to reproduce or reproduce as often. The women who submitted and even came to love their captors were the most successful.

    And as personality traits are known to be inherited, the submissive women had sons who inherited the dominant genes of their father and daughters who were submissive and preferred the type of men like their father.

    Wooing and romancing a woman in order for her to give consent is a relatively recent phenomenon which came along with the rise of monogamy and western civilization

    Because “beta” traits are better for civilization as a whole. Pre civilization, an alpha male took the woman he wanted, with or without her say so. Only beta males attempted to get permission.

    Well with civilization, men were required to act more “beta”. So showing that he was a good provider in the context of civilization was the way men got women and women were expected to choose such men. Physical aggression started to become more frowned upon.

    Now, it’s different. Since women have absolute freedom of choice and make their own money, a beta provider isn’t a turn on. In a way, waiting for female permission for sex makes her the dominant one. A lot of men, and I used to be one of them, will become a woman’s virtual servant to get permission for sex.But now she’s no longer bound by social norms to choose the “provider” type

  46. Her friends are all divorced and/or single save one.

    See the link below.

    Funny thing, the one that’s still married is the one that gave me the strongest IOIs and who I could have bent over had I the inclination.

    Do you understand why she did that?

    Obviously still some anger. I use it to fuel my RP transition. Writing about it here is a tremendous help, thanks for the feedback.

    For a lot of us, writing is clarifying. Putting down in words what one is thinking eventually leads to clearer thinking. That’s why Field Reports work, too. Things that men would have talked over with brothers, uncles, cousins, war comrades now get hashed out at places like this.

    Here is an article from 2011 that explores the clear contagiousness of divorce.

    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2011/06/05/the-contagious-nature-of-divorce/

  47. Somehow I missed Morpheus’ post above about the divorce.
    Reading over the thread again I caught it.
    That fucking sucks.

  48. @Morpheus

    Sorry for your pain. Marriage is such a gamble.

    I am curious about one thing for my own edification. Did even Dread fail? And if you can talk about it, how did you implement Dread, assuming that you did?

  49. Ah Rollo just when I think I’m making progress an essay like this comes along with all of the listed Alpha tells, and I realise not one of them applies to me in my relationship.

    LTR of 17 yrs and mother of my 2 children only ever offered anal once in the first year of our relationship. I knew she’d done it once before in college. Then on a weekend away she was on her period and suggested we go for anal. Being the “nice guy” I was back then I politely declined. Fast forward 17 yrs and I’m asking for it on the weekly and she’s having none of it, claiming she never enjoyed it.

    Been red pill aware for nearly 2 years but a very slow progress for me. Anal has almost become a holy grail as some sort of proof of my progress – if I can get it once I equalise with college boy, twice and I take the lead.

    Tragic really but can’t tell you how much it consumes me.

  50. “Comparison is the thief of joy”
    -Ted Roosevelt

    ““The secret of being miserable is to have the luxury to bother about whether you are happy or not” -George Bernard Shaw

  51. “does she swallow, is she averse to your fluids (sperm and saliva), does she initiate, does she flirt with you”

    these are important questions!

  52. @anon

    Yeah, if we men were just dumber, we’d be happier. Comparison gives us intel about our wives and we realize the truth–that they just don’t find us desirable. Of course, our wives don’t do any shit that makes us unhappy because they resent having to have sex with us. It’s only when we learn the truth that we become unhappy.

    /light sarc off

  53. @ Spamela

    Keep it up. It can be done. I like your honest comment.

    I had a FR months ago, me, nasty sex talk, in the throws of passion, she liked it until…I pushed the anal envelope. She killed the buzz, immediately started testing me, the rest of the evening was violent, bizarre compared to our rough-stuff today.

    Reason: The more I became believably alpha, the more she sought submitting to all of it. She had to, her hindbrain told her I was pulling away. Her instincts were correct, and she’s cool with mixing it up now. Ignore crafty hypergamy at your own peril. Heh.

    All in, all the time was the quickest way to more frame, her seeing the fruits of our relationship, with fringe benefits of sexual liberation for her, us. It took time, and her hindbrain-servo isn’t knocked into “He’s now Alpha forever! Yay me!” mode.

    I try to not leave visible marks, hurting her, choking her down. Must maintain my effete character. Hee.

  54. Spamela

    See the Middleman situation above. Forget red pill awareness become Alpha. As Ehintellect says the harder you go the faster the results.

    Post your Field Reports and you van get better advice.

  55. @Spamela

    I’m not a big fan of fast results when you didn’t enter the relationship with good Frame (wholly in her frame and then spent 17 years digging yourself into a deeper Beta Frame) which tend to be un-calibrated on the median. Your situation is not like any other, and you need to individualize your plan in Game.

    But I totally agree with Sentient, that you need to stop rationalizing and stop learning Red Pill Awareness (two years of that is enough). Learning more Red Pill is merely a Buffer in your situation and what you have to do is take calibrated action.

    Seeking anal as a goal that consumes you is as pathological as the idea behind Rollo’s One-itis essay.

    Rollo’s first from Year One:

    I think there’s been a mischaracterization of ONEitis. It’s necessary to differentiate between a healthy relationship based on mutual respect and a lopsided ONEitis based relationship. I’ve had more than a few guys seeking my advice, or challenging my take on ONEitis, essentially ask me for permission to accept ONEitis as legitimate monogamy. In my estimation ONEitis is an unhealthy psychological dependency that is the direct result of the continuous socialization of the soulmate myth in pop culture. What’s truly frightening is that ONEitis has become associated with being a healthy normative aspect of an LTR or marriage.

    That is not the completion in life that you will get. You need to work on generating desire in increments that are sustainable and believable. As in Steven Pressfield’s Do the Work, or Daniel Coyle’s Talent Code, (or better yet his Little Book of Talent), or Robert Greene’s Mastery, it takes desire and a method of learning to re-forge a new life.

    Reading more stuff won’t do it. Philosophizing is just a buffer. You have to do the work.

    The way you generate desire in LTR is with the MRP models and the entire MRP Reddit sidebar.
    I also agree with Sentient in that you need to actually reveal stuff about yourself, your situation, your deficiencies (be honest and spill your guts about your whole story of Betatization). You can’t reap Alpha rewards if she sees you as 100% Beta. It just doesn’t happen. You have to claw back via hard work. But hard work in life is an Alpha Trait. It has to happen. You aren’t a golden child so you have to start spinning gold. Are you up to that task? Is hard work your forte. Is it worth it? Are the children being raised well?

    I always say it’s our own damned fault for having put ourselves in the Beta position and it is our own burden to crawl out of the pit of our in-sufficiencies. You have to accept the fact that you might not get where you want to go. But that shouldn’t stop you from starting now. The more you are behind, the more you have to make up.

    If you haven’t even read BluePillProfessor’s book, which takes a couple dollars and a couple ten hours to digest and a year to implement, you aren’t actually trying.

    Also read Dean Delis’ book the Passion Trap.

    This link to a review of his book is not anywhere near as good as actually reading the book for practical advice on how to proceed:

    http://www.midlifebachelor.com/forums/forum/midlife-discussion-forums/midlife-dating-forum/2178-book-summary-the-passion-trap

    Stop thinking and start doing is the right way to proceed. That doesn’t mean don’t read more. It means don’t philosophize and idealize more, have a more praxeologic approach (what works. What is, rather than how things ought to be.) You have to practice game, but if you are ignorant of how to game, you need to get some models on how to proceed efficiently.

    We all got our difficulties, and don’t think you have to score a home run quick like Apex Alphas (witness Sentient and Blaximus and Rollo). Just move toward your goals and don’t be disappointed or fixated on not achieving them.

    LTR’s do have value for some guys, esp. with children. Don’t dynamite them unless they need to be dynamited.

  56. “you need to individualize your plan in Game.”

    Determining, accepting one’s personal character weaknesses is difficult, esp. when adding a dash of RP to a basis of BP. An ounce of rubbish in a gallon of ice cream tastes more like rubbish than ice cream.

    Knowing RP, applying it believably is work, patience, persistence. Subduing your weaknesses, quashing ingrained FI conventions, requires spine. Leaning over the edge is dangerous…there is a possibility of falling off.

    Nota bene: RP men stick the landing better, as RP is more than sex. BP men fixate on the now, the sex, their supposed failures. This leads to rash decisions, tragic consequences.

    As comment baiting butt fucking is, there’s more to achieving RP life than anal. It’s a symptom, not a cure.

    Unsolicited advice, incoming. Anal sex step one: Stop asking for anal.

  57. @Spamela

    In todays sexual environment the idea of male dominance is torn down from every angle,and the matrix would have us all believe that constitutes abuse,they are making progress in the propogation of this lie.

    This may be the hardest lump for most men swallowing TRP [men are dominant and women are submissive by nature] and while men may progress into gentlmen this realy doesn’t excite women sexually. As a promise keeper it was tough for me.

    Women find muscles attractive,but it only takes them a few minutes to find if those muscles are supported by any backbone.This backbone is what they need.

    Now I have learned never to ask for anything sexual as this spoils the mood and shows a lack of perception.Subtle domination starts out with boundary pushing as in tickling to wrestling to tounging and biting to clothes ripping,this stuff gets heated and it should.As a rule I never ask although I will stop if asked and have regreted this with some alpha widow types.

  58. I was married for 40 years before recently divorced. My wife was very fridgid. No anal, no head and mainly only starfish except when she was ovulating.
    Since the Red Pill I’ve dated a woman recently who was sexually just like my wife with her ex husband of 25 years. She never did anal with him and was very closed off.
    But with me she does anal all the time and almost always gives me great head. She goes crazy screaming that I take places she’s never been (sexually). It’s crazy….. She must think my SMV’s off the charts or something.

  59. I think you miss an important point about anal. It might not necessarily be that a woman does not want to fully submit to a man, rather, there are religious prohibitions against such even within marriage. Sodomy and Onanism are considered deviant practices that are not open to life.

  60. How about this, I want a woman who struggles so hard between her desire to please me and her pretenses of conviction yet defies the gods in favor of fucking me with such abandon she’ll risk her soul and pray for forgiveness for doing so. THAT is desire.

  61. @Radawn

    There’s a danger to letting your kind be raised by another man. In all likelihood, this beta sucker raising your child is bull pill as hell, and coupled with the woman you just pumped and dumped, your kid is going to grow up blue pill.

    That’s what communities are supposed to do. Cavemen figured it out and taught their sons and daughters their roles as hunters and supports, respectively.

  62. @Rollo Tomassi is spot on…Desire overrides logic, reason and is shown through action. Yes, there are moral rationalizations that we all make and specially when it comes to religion and spirituality we factor those heavily. But raw, unsolicited desire is an instinctive reflex and that can override everything. It’s like holding your breath. You can cognitively hold it for a while, but eventually you lungs are going to create a biological response for air so powerful it will override your cognitive denial and you’ll forcibly be sucking air in again. The same with desire for someone sexually. While there is a spectrum, pure, total desire always leans towards extreme action, such as when people that are religious participate in “deviant” sexual practices or people in marriages have immoral extramarital affairs with people close to their own social circles. “Life finds a way.”

  63. It’s simple really, no fault divorce have women all the power.
    She can leave at any time, and take way more than 1/2 of what you have now and what you’ll ever have. Talk about dread.
    Once married you have to “game her” or risk rape via divorce.
    There is only one solution. To back to the divorce is not an option. Male dominated. Strict gender roles. women votes, etc.
    If not, we collapse especially with a hillary, Warren etc presidents who Merkel us into demographic death

  64. Heather (likely a type of troll)
    It might not necessarily be that a woman does not want to fully submit to a man, rather, there are religious prohibitions against such even within marriage.

    Both of them would know that prior to marriage, your objection is moot. There are sites where you can discuss religious restrictions on married sex your heart’s content. This isn’t one of them.

  65. @SJF
    Once she has seen the 100% beta, it is impossible to “claw back” to alpha status. Abandon ship and seek new liaisons.

    What I used to think was mysterious has been so brazenly dissected it is almost sad. The magic laid bare. I used to see a guy do something subservient to a girl and cringe. I was at loss at what to say to someone to make it clear what was not right about it. It is after spending time in the manosphere that one realises it all boils down to stuff described by simple words eg gestures, posture, tone of voice and so on. A lot of it flows naturally from ones mindset. Which is why one should deal very ruthlessly with people who attempt to fuck up the mindset.

    Ditch them, aladem.

  66. By the way, Heather (a type of flower or something) since you did grace the site with your presence and opinion, could you tell us how many months a good, Bible reading, church going, raise-hands-high married woman should refuse to have sexual intercourse with her husband before he has any complaint? One? Three? Six? A year? I’m certain that you have no problem with a married, church going, Bible reading, very sacredly holy woman using sex as a weapon, or a doggy treat, or a lever. Just wondering how far is OK with you.

    Please do me the favor of an answer. There are married churchgoing men I know who would like to know if there’s any limit to their dead marriage bed. I’m quite certain that all their wives are oh-so-sincere about Biblical submission, in public, too. Just not in the marriage bed. Blue pilled church going men are some of the most devoted, and badly treated, men in the US.

  67. @Everyone: I don’t know if it is because of my religious upbringing but I never felt the draw of anal. It’s like Sentient says he doesn’t really like it much compared to vaginal. Not that I ever tried though (he has), but I think unless someone asks me to I’m not motivated to push for it myself. There are also health issues, technically you should leave the ass for last not to cross-contaminate and such.

    Blaximus says that if a girl wants to try something and the guy doesn’t that is bad, but somehow isn’t that going into her frame?

    I totally agree that a girl willingness to do it (or anything else) is an alpha tell, and if the guy wants to do it and the girl doesn’t accept it is clear beta tell.

    I’m a bit more iffy on the concept put forth by Blaximus though. I can imagine the girl then has increased incentives to cheat and such but I don’t quite get the underlying mechanism. Say a guy like Sentient or me is with an ONS and she asks him for anal but the guy just rather stick with vaginal, what do?

  68. I think you miss an important point about anal. It might not necessarily be that a woman does not want to fully submit to a man, rather, there are religious prohibitions against such even within marriage.
    .
    That was pretty funny. I’m sure Bathsheba said “I’m not usually like this . . . I want to keep the commandment but . . . oh . . .”

  69. . . . with an ONS and she asks him for anal but the guy just rather stick with vaginal, what do?

    Grab her hair and pull her head back while saying “I’ll fuck you the way I want to fuck you” followed by a penetrating kiss. If she does not comply, stop and make her leave.

  70. IAS

    You can’t go too wrong following the Platinum Rule [do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it]… So in the moment, if anal is something you want to try, do it… if she asks and you want to – do it. If she asks and you don’t – don’t. If she begs and pleads? Maybe lol…

    Of interest

    I have a “Do a Scene with James Deen” contest, where women can submit an application, and then, after a very long talk and months of me saying, you know, “Everyone’s going to find out, it’s going to affect your future,” and basically trying to talk them out of it kind of, then we shoot a scene.

    And in just the last two years, there’s been a big shift in the type of personality that’s doing the scenes. I’ll have conversations where they’re like, “Yeah, and then this guy came on my face.” And I’m like, “You do know that is something that people should, like, discuss?” That it’s not just part of sex… it just seems that there is this programming and desensitization to what sex and sexuality is and it’s creating this very odd dynamic within the industry.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/05/porn-star-james-deens-crisis-of-conscience/523347/

  71. Excellent post!

    Agree with you (and other commenters) that the best test is the “hell yes!” test. Media / society / etc. have built up this nonsense fairytale story of “building up” a woman’s interest by pursuing and wooing her to the point where she gives in and agrees to go out with the male who has put in the time and effort to win her over.

    That’s bullshit – and is a recipe for future disaster. The early / initial levels of attraction are the critical baseline of negotiation from which you work from, and you can only increase that level so much. If you put all your energy into trying to get a woman’s interest up high enough that she kinda-sorta is interested enough to have sex with you? That’s the beginning of the end – and you’re faced with a future of struggling to keep that level from eroding.

    Better to focus on setting that initial point of interest at the “hell yes!” level – acting on it quickly and deliberately (i.e. letting her submit to you and let her *enjoy doing it*) – and THEN try to maintain that level of alpha in the relationship for as long as you can.

    A woman that submits to a partner half-heartedly won’t stay in that state for long. If she’s not into you early on? Walk away.

  72. @ IAS,

    In the overall picture, a man has to drive the sexual relationship. The woman will follow if she has desire for. you and become a very willing and highly active participant. The burden that a grown man has, is to become sexually skilled. I think the specific idea of anal as an example is freaking you out a little. Don’t fail to fully grasp the concept.

    True desire is practically boundless.

    I guess this is where a measure of sexual compatibility comes in even though I’m not a real believer in that 100%. Religion is used as a buffer and an excuse. I’ve banged quite a few highly religious ‘ good girls ‘ in my youth, and even pulled off my share of hijabs. Watch what they do, not what they say.

    What I do know from having a huge number of female friends and close family members, is that a man cannot afford to become a sexual beta. Chicks have a concept of what a ‘ man ‘ is supposed to be sexually, without even understanding testosterone and it’s effects. What do you think that silly 50 shades hysterics was all about?

    IMO, a man must resist placing too many self restrictions on himself, especially sexually, if he is to learn and grow to his maximum potential. You do this for yourself. It prevents a lot of the ‘ I wish I would’ve.’ When you’re 80 years old.

    I’ve heard dozens and dozens of complaints from chicks, married and otherwise, about the sanitary and lackluster sex drive of their mates. Recipe for hypergamic disaster eventually. If you buy into the FI narratives, and the outdated tropes about who and what women are sexually, it will hinder both you and your sexual partners long term satisfaction. It really, really isn’t complex once you clear your head of self limiting/defeating beta/FI programming.

    Good girls don’t exist. Religious girls don’t really exist ( biologically speaking ). Special girls don’t exist. Sexually pure girls don’t exist.

    …. Just girls exist.

    Placing undue sexual restrictions on oneself is highly beta. You can have preferences of course, but mind what informs those preferences.

    If you grasp the concept of an Alpha Widow, everything I’ve stated should make sense. Why are they considered thus? Why can’t most men just fuck it out of them? Lol.

    Get absolutely everything out of the women you deal with regardless of whether in marriage, ltr or ons.

  73. Spamela SJF Ehintellect HABD

    Let me clarify this the harder you go the faster the results. in light of SJF’s comment:

    I’m not a big fan of fast results when you didn’t enter the relationship with good Frame (wholly in her frame and then spent 17 years digging yourself into a deeper Beta Frame) which tend to be un-calibrated on the median.

    I’m not saying you can change the dynamic with your wife overnight. I am saying that a) you can change YOUR dynamic (i.e. mindset) with a snap of your fingers, a flick of the switch and b) that your results will come faster by pushing the envelope versus babystepping… The MMSL Forum was filled with guys just like you in decade plus marriages who would work “hard” at things they were comfortable with like fitness, appearance, money etc. and not do the really hard work of pissing off their wife, shitting down shit tests, holding her accountable and maintaining their frame in the face of her emotion.

    Sooooo you can go for years getting almost all the way there but not quite, which to her hindbrain is still binary – a sorta almost Alpha guy is still a 100% beta guy to her… or you can be consistent in your thought and deed, press things, deal with the fallout and force her to change via this process… which may take some time. It may take some time for her to test you enough to trust that you are really different now. The forum had a rubric of one month for each year of relationship, but I think you can shorten that by half at least by pressing harder earlier.

    Now a fundamental premise of this transformation is YOU will be different at the end, and one possible realistic outcome is she will no longer be with YOU.

  74. “Naturally, Christian feminists and the Feminine Imperative the pervades the modern church (even amongst the men) want to dance around or prequalify this ‘commandment’ such as it is.”

    Isn’t the word “Christian feminist” a oxymoron because today’s feminism promotes lieing and cheating which is breaking the commandments? LuL

  75. @dr_warlock “To submit to a lesser man is rape. To submit to a superior man is harmony.”
    What a beautiful quote.
    And Krauser said that game is a series of compliance tests. The more interested she is, and the “better” his game is, or how “alpha” he is, the more compliant she is with the man’s requests for digits, isolation and the pussy/anal.

    Another golden post from Rollo. The interesting thing is that not only is a woman’s submission a behavioural choice, but it is also physical during sex. Women’s orgasms are determined by her perception of how dominant her partner is. The more dominant or “alpha” she perceives him to be, the more likely she has an orgasm. And the more likely she has *vaginal* as opposed to clitoral orgasms. This helps with muscular contractions and “sucking” the sperm towards the uterus, thereby retaining sperm for conception. This is especially important for women sleeping with multiple men or with prior partners (dads) who cheat on them with sexy guys (cads). Her body chooses which partners sperm to retain by having orgasms with them. Hence sexy sons are born and not Mr Boring Nice Guy partner’s kids. And it is entirely subconscious.

    All explained here.
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199612/the-orgasm-wars

  76. “Anal is one thing, but does she swallow, is she averse to your fluids (sperm and saliva), does she initiate, does she flirt with you, or is sex something you have to negotiate, make appeals to her comfort (mental satisfaction) or some non-sexual qualification?”

    This is one reason why all men should workout/confidence that comes with it. Bumb up your smv men.

  77. @Blax

    Anal seems weird because why would I want to put my dick in some broad’s shit? My dick deserves better.

    I also am aware of a lot of anal reconstructions going on because of fecal incontinence. Both men and women. If you have a burrito, you can damage a broad. Maybe you don’t care. I do.

    The anus is an out port, not an in port. The dick goes into in ports, like the mouth and vaj.

  78. @ ASD

    It’s a matter of personal preferences in the end ( no pun… )

    I’ve listened to guys saying that oral is disgusting, and only a sick slut allows penis in their mouths.I’ve heard a few guys say that ‘ doggy ‘ is disrespectful to a woman and is reserved for sluts. Women on top is immasculating…. All sorts of shit.

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