The Power of Emotion

boxitup

Science fiction has always sought to portray human emotion as a weakness to be overcome.
Some have gone further to express the notion of our physical being as a limiting factor. This is notably seen in 2001: A Space Odyssey.

I’m aware this is fiction, but I just want to reinforce the point from my earlier post that we don’t have to be held to eternal hostage by nature. We can strive to be better.
A quote from Terminator 2, sums it up admirably.

T-800 to John Connor: “I now know why you cry. But it is something, I can never do.”

While emotions are a part of our experience as human beings, Red Pill aware men need to understand the functionality of emotional responses. Rationality is, of course, the charter of this blog and my books, and while I make my best efforts to approach each aspect of what I write from as objective an origin as I’m able to, I also understand that there are limitations to remaining completely objective. I’m human like anyone else reading this (chatbots excepted) and I’ve always been fully aware that my emotional state, my own ego-investments and biases, as well as the observer effect are all something I need to make a conscious effort to account for while I’m writing about a new idea or observation I’m connecting dots with.

In a few prior posts I’ve made an effort to account for a balance between rationality and emotionalism. I say “emotionalism” because I think there needs to be a separation between the physical experience of emotion and the significance our fem-centric social order would have us place on those experiences. There is a difference between emotional response (evolved stimulus-response adaptations) and the ideologies that elevate human emotion to a metaphysical state (emotionalism).

Seeking, rage, fear, lust, care, panic and play are what are commonly recognized as primal emotions. I didn’t make this list up myself, these are just the most base-level imperatives from which more complex experiences of emotion are distilled. All of these root-level emotional experiences have been studied extensively and can be stimulated chemically and neurologically today. An easy example of this biological connection to emotional experience can be triggered and observed in the ‘roid rages’ experienced by the users of anabolic steroids.

Have you ever been “Hangry“? The feeling of anger / aggressiveness due to being overly hungry is an evolutionary survival adaptation. You’re far more motivated to kill and eat something if the feeling of hunger, prompted by its chemical triggers, also stimulates feelings of aggression. In today’s era that aggression may be inconvenient or anti-social, but our hunter-gatherer ancestors found it both acceptable and useful.

There are dozens of other examples I can give for the connection between our environmental, physical and chemical conditions and our emotional state. Similarly, there are chemical (dopamine) and behavioral prompts we associate with a particular emotional state. I don’t imagine this is anything revelatory to most Red Pill aware readers, but reviewing the objective aspects of emotion is necessary in order to separate it from the social influence of emotionalism.

Testosterone is well known to stimulate feelings of aggression and sexual arousal, but did you know that the chemical make up of testosterone is actually an inhibitor of the chemicals that prompt sadness and crying? When considered in this respect and the fact that human males produce 12 to 17 times the amount of testosterone females do, is it any coincidence that men may feel less compulsion to cry over things? Yet, men are shamed for “holding back” tears. This is an example of the connection between our physical experience of emotions and the importance to which our social order places on (primarily female) emotionalism. There are a lot of complexities that make up our emotional state and the more we study the influences of our own biologies the better we can make a connection between the evolved, survival-beneficial, effect these emotions elicit in us.

The nuts and bolts science of emotions demystifies the more magical, romanticized association we like to apply to them. And at the risk of prompting any kind of nihilism, it’s important that we consider our emotional state in terms of the concrete physical stimulus that’s provoking our emotional states. It’s easy to get into the science of emotions when we’re trying to solve a problem like clinical depression and the feelings and potential behaviors it evokes, but it’s much harder to look at upsetting an elated feeling of happiness. If it ain’t broke there’s no reason to think about fixing it.

But what sets us off about really coming to terms with the science of emotion is it tends to kill our gods. Up until advent of our understanding the cause and effect influences of emotion we’ve applied a lot of metaphysical importance to our emotions. Historically, our emotions have inspired us to create some of the greatest cultural and artistic masterpieces, and they’ve urged us to some pretty ugly atrocities too. Even today, western cultures raise emotion to a mythical grandeur. We romanticize and apply great significance to how we feel. We prioritize expressing emotions to being some enlightened state and the repression or control of them as some kind of horrible evil or some form of retardation.

Emotionalism

The Washington Post (I know, I know,…) recently published the findings of a study outlining how “sexist” men have psychological problems:

Researchers then identified 11 norms considered to be “traditionally masculine” — desire to win, need for emotional control, risk-taking, violence, dominance, sexual promiscuity or playboy behavior, self-reliance, primacy of work, power over women, disdain for homosexuality and pursuit of status — and looked to see whether they were associated with particular mental health outcomes.

In general, the men who stuck more strongly to these norms were more likely to experience problems such as depression, stress, body image issues, substance abuse and negative social functioning. They were also less likely to turn to counseling to help deal with those problems. The effect was particularly strong for men who emphasized playboy behavior, power over women and self-reliance.

As you might expect, what’s defined as “toxic” masculinity today is decided by people invested in a mindset that confirms the Feminine Imperative. This article follows along with what will likely be the Trump-era narrative for masculinity – anything remotely considered “traditionally” masculine will be conflated with a psychological disorder. The cure to which is, of course, ego-investing men in feminine-primary mental states; effectively feminizing men.

If we look at the norms identified by this study we are expected to nod in agreement about the negative, potentially damaging, connotations these traditionally masculine aspects imply. But they are only negative because the objective environment we are supposed to interpret them from is one of feminine primacy. Anything that can be considered an impediment to female societal control, any aspect of men’s intrinsic natures that lessens the same potentials of women is considered “toxic”.

Desire to win, need for emotional control, risk-taking, violence, dominance, sexual promiscuity or playboy behavior, self-reliance, primacy of work, power over women, disdain for homosexuality and pursuit of status – by orders of degree these are the foundational aspects of masculinity that’s been responsible for the advancement of humanity for millennia now. I’m not entirely sure what ‘playboy lifestyle’ entails, but consider the problems these aspects of male nature evolved to solve for men. Each one of these characteristics has a functional prompt; they didn’t evolve in a vacuum. These parts of masculinity were and are functional benefits to men. Only in a society that defines supremacism of women and the primacy of female-correctness do these aspects become negative.

I doubt it will come as any surprise to the Red Pill aware that all of these traits used to have a higher social value in virtually all social orders prior to our present one. It’s not enough to make female social interaction the preeminent one, masculinity and its conventional aspects must be pathologized. They must become a sickness if gynocentrism is to sustain itself.

I’m exploring this here because the female way of socialization is founded upon emotionalism. I think it’s important for Red Pill men to understand that the defining of what particular emotional states are acceptable is intimately linked to what those states mean to the Feminine Imperative. In the past 60 years western(ized) culture has become one in which the feminine defines the predominant cultural narrative with regard to intersexual communication, correctness and the psychological values we are meant to infer from it. This discourse is one that is primarily informed by women’s high priority on an investment in emotionalism.

In past essays I’ve outlined how men and women’s brains are neurologically wired for different, yet complementary functions. Women experience negative emotions differently from men. The male brain evolved to seek out sex before food. And while our feminine-centric social order insists that, in the name of equalism, boys should be forced to learn in the same modality as that of girls, the science shows that boys brains are rudimentarily wired to learn differently.

“Greater emotional reactivity in women may explain many things, such as their being twice as likely to suffer from depression and anxiety disorders compared to men,” Mendrek added, who is also an associate professor at the University of Montreal’s Department of Psychiatry.

Yet for all of these very evident physical differences in men and women’s experience of emotion, it is women’s experience, and a feminine priority for the ‘correctness’ of that experience we apply to men. I would suggest that much of this is primarily due to women’s innate solipsism, but we’ve normalized women’s experience of emotion as the common and correct one in terms of intersexual communication and social dynamics.

Emotionalism and the applying of metaphysical meaning to the feminine-correct experience of them has pervaded our social consciousness since the time of the sexual revolution. This elevated importance of emotion has been a part of popular culture for millennia of course, but until the rise of a socially mandated importance of female Hypergamy we haven’t had female emotionalism direct the course of society as it has for over sixty years now.

As such, we see that men “getting in touch with their feminine sides” is really a concerted effort to repress their natural experience of emotion as a male, and to attempt to force their own emotional states into ones females can identify with. As I mentioned above, there are literally biological limitations for a man to experience emotion as a woman as well as his impulse to want to prioritize those feelings as women do. The presumption is that a man is emotionally stunted if he feel that repressing his emotions is what he ought to do. “Boys don’t cry” is a sickness when it is women’s experience and importance of emotionalism that drives our social discourse.

Women bemoan men’s stereotypical lack of “emotional availability”, and we put a religious importance upon our capacity to express our emotions in some way, but all of this is constrained to the box that is women’s correct experience and importance of emotion. This is not what men’s brains are naturally wired for, and in a Red Pill context this is not what women’s hindbrains want from men.

It’s important for Red Pill men to understand that our feminine-primary social order is founded up the importance women place on the God of emotion. Part of your Blue Pill conditioning was to convince you, as a young boy, that the way women emote and the importance they put on emotion is what you needed to accept as the healthy, normal way of experiencing and expressing it. The truth is you are not wired to experience emotion as a woman will. That isn’t to suggest you deny or repress your feelings, but to understand that you shouldn’t feel bad for not feeling as a woman feels. This kind of goes back to the point I was making in Empathy; while it may be possible for a woman to sympathize with your feelings, she will never be able to empathize with them as a man would experience it.

Furthermore, it should be part of men’s unplugging to come to terms with the metaphysical importance women place on (largely their own) emotional states. They remove the functional aspect of emotion and elevate it to something only women have a unique sensitivity to understand. Separating yourself from this self-induced, self-applied belief in emotion can be a very powerful tool for a Red Pill man in his dealing with women – and not just the ones he’s intimately involved with. Separating your ego from the religion of emotion and coming to terms with the science of emotion is a very difficult step for Blue Pill invested men to make. As I said, it’s like killing your gods, but it’s also killing the notion of the emotionalism you think you need to identify with in order to connect with a woman.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

398 comments on “The Power of Emotion

  1. “I agree with the consensus so far, which sounds like BOTH.”

    Ya gotta play it as ya feel it, with the particular man, at the particular time, but take of yourself first.

  2. @kfg
    Geeze, that’s like being depantsed midfield, right on the 50 yard line, during homecoming.

    You know, I almost feel pity for Wild Person, except that his mindset is so rigidly bound to his “equality” premise that he just refuses to examine it. He brought this on himself by throwing his usual word salad – wait, his usual ontological word salad – all over someone else’s blog while just refusing to read any replies. At this point it’s getting to be more like some guy who thinks he’s Bruce Lee hitting bar after bar, picking fights and getting bounced, then going on to the next bar to pick a fight and get bounced again. Long past time for self reflection, what with the black eyes and swollen lip & such.

    Hey, maybe we could try linking Wild Person up with RooshV? In an ontologically egalitarian way, of course.

  3. Speaking of taking advantage of betas,WK’s,Bluepillers and AFC’s.

    ” maybe we could try linking Wild Person up with RooshV? In an ontologically egalitarian way, of course.”

    The O.E. connection could be a bigger hit than tinder, million dollar idea?

  4. “At this point it’s getting to be more like some guy who thinks he’s Bruce Lee hitting bar after bar, picking fights . . . ”

    Only this time he tried it in Bruce Lee’s bar.

  5. Power of emotion in the UMC / UC world. Maybe Opus can drop by for some droll tales.

    Beta-boy banker finds out about his wife’s recreational activities, hilarity ensues. This article looks totally different to me now than 5 years ago. I especially am amused by her little lies to deflect his wrath from her “sex game”, and for sure there’s sexytime fun on that sheet of paper that she’s never done with him, maybe even refused to do.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/16/credit-suisse-banker-spat-wifes-face-finding-abouther-sex-games/

    He’s still guilty of assault for spitting on her, too, so dirty laundry all over the street. Note that she’s probably deliberately injured herself then photographed it, for the divorce proceedings, too.

    Judge Korner said: “I want to make it absolutely clear that we deplore the spit, you should never have done it, it is despicable behaviour by someone in your position.

    “We have some sympathy as you found out your wife was having an affair and were frustrated.”

  6. Not too serious but

    Mocking masculinity b/c some products target men

    http://thechive.com/2016/12/16/men-will-go-to-great-lengths-to-protect-their-fragile-masculinity-20-photos/

    It may be all in good fun, but the interesting thing to consider is why this is humor in the first place. I’ve seen people make fun of, say, pink rifles and so on, but it’s never assumed that femininity is ‘fragile’ as a result of being marketed to.

  7. @KFG – Had to bail on the thread for the past few days due to lots of work – a very good thing. But I wanted to respond to your “welcome to the alt right table” comment upthread a ways.

    What I don’t do is stop at that point of my observations about what white Westerners are doing to themselves. I realize that the U.S. actually proved that a multi-racial and multi-ethnic society could work if it had a mono-culture. And a balance had to be maintained to ensure that uniquely WASPy culture prevailed and dominated. Self-reliance, self-improvement, industriousness, modesty etc. Multi-culturalism is the problem.

    I see lots of data that proves this to me. I won’t argue it here, I’ve said it all
    before.

    But I also take a philosophically different turn from there. What I notice is that human beings really differ from each other. I think there are some white people who are more different from me than some black people. We naturally form groups and have ingroup preference, which is hugely beneficial to humanity in general and to groups that adapt and improve. The real miracle of the modern world is that various groups can live with each other more peacefully and we can interoperate with each other and coexist peacefully.

    So I looked deeper for what was more universal. I eventually found Stoicism, which helped greatly. Ridding myself of my idealism and naivete was a first step, and where many seem to stop with Stoicism. But in fact, Stoicism posits that the struggle man has with himself and the world is universal. This really rang true with me. I don’t have be Ethiopian to know what men there struggle in ways that I do. That we fall short, disappoint ourselves, strive and give in.

    In this struggle, I can respect anyone and feel kinship with them. I don’t think we can all mix and match and most of us won’t, but I don’t want to be apart in my own little ghetto.

    I also don’t really want to sit at a table with white supremacists. I can believe much of what they claim to believe and never go near the racism. I don’t want to start another pissing contest here, so I’ll leave it at that. I also think your comment was made in good will and I appreciate that.

    Tell me, do I make any sense at all to you?

  8. @SFCTon – “Once you’ve overcome enough bullshit ie frame is strong enough you won’t much give a fuck if they are ride or die because you know damn well you’ll be back on top yourself or go down like a boss.”

    This. @Joe K – Not going to disagree with you, in the sense that I get that men can decide to do what you do. But here’s how it looks to me. I’m gonna to out fighting. Scrapping. Clawing. Never surrendering. Never giving up. Never believing I can’t have what I want. Especially with respect to women. I’ve got 20something hotties sending me naked pix on the way to work to brighten up my day. I’m 54 and have a belly. Ridiculous. It sure does brighten up my day though.

    So for me, I cannot fathom seeing the world as you do. As for women, it is different now. I see them more like say I would a person from another planet sometimes. I realize how different we are, and just how automatic so much of our behavior and ways of being are and just surrender to it all. Yeah, it’s not fair and the current society is fucked, but still, I don’t loathe women, and in fact appreciate feminine energy tremendously. It does something viscerally for me that is irreplaceable. And it’s not really the sex, although that is wonderful. It’s the ineffable feminine sweetness and coyness and cuteness – I can’t put it to the right words but I wouldn’t give up on that for the world.

    Can you see that?

  9. @Scribbler:

    “Tell me, do I make any sense at all to you?”

    Totally; until it became about white supremacy.

    Do you understand that you are alt-right, not a white supremacist, ergo: the alt-right is not white supremacist?

  10. SFC Ton
    “White knights always back down. Sure they might be pissed you’re banging the 20 year old hottie and not them but they always back down. Always”

    Lost patrol
    “Besides, part of the fun of it is throwing a RP grenade into a room once in awhile to see what kind of reactions you get.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VYk_D7Mp0k

    AR
    ” It’s sorta like back when I learned water lifesaving and they drilled into our teenaged heads to always go for a life ring, or a stick, or a branch, or anything first because someone who’s drowning can climb right up on top of you very fast – take you both down right there.”

    Been thinking about this all the time while getting into my rage being expressed away from the internalized version I’m so familiar with. Grew up with so much guilt shame and anxiety. For me to get passed that i got to process each part of that. Physical rage about the violations and the want for intimacy and the perversion that was presented instead.

    “I especially am amused by her little lies to deflect his wrath from her “sex game”, and for sure there’s sexytime fun on that sheet of paper that she’s never done with him, maybe even refused to do.”
    I see this all the time especially with people i grew up with. (Here is morality on one side.) Here is who i really enjoy ass banging on the other side who dosn’t follow the same BS i preach to you about what makes a family and someone happy.Its as if you go to a church and these people are telling you a story a story you want to be a part of and imbrace than you get exposed to so much pain from that story not aligning with your story your experience with the world. Your true self that forces a red pill awareness without your consent.

    Forge
    “It may be all in good fun, but the interesting thing to consider is why this is humor in the first place. I’ve seen people make fun of, say, pink rifles and so on, but it’s never assumed that femininity is ‘fragile’ as a result of being marketed to.”
    https://soundcloud.com/hozier/work-song-live-in-america
    Its the dance of how each one plays off one another. The appreciation of one thing being constant from your for fathers. Knowing that hunting isnt going away anytime soon because someone is offended by what that entails.

    scribblerg
    “But I also take a philosophically different turn from there. What I notice is that human beings really differ from each other. I think there are some white people who are more different from me than some black people. We naturally form groups and have ingroup preference, which is hugely beneficial to humanity in general and to groups that adapt and improve. The real miracle of the modern world is that various groups can live with each other more peacefully and we can interoperate with each other and coexist peacefully.”

    “Look again at that dot. That’s here. That’s home. That’s us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every “superstar,” every “supreme leader,” every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there–on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

    The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.

    Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

    The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.

    It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we’ve ever known.”

    — Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot, 1994

    One a man Who was red pill before red pill.
    “It is an error to divide people into the living and the dead: there are people who are dead-alive, and people who are alive-alive. The dead-alive also write, walk, speak, act. But they make no mistakes; only machines make no mistakes, and they produce only dead things. The alive-alive are constantly in error, in search, in questions, in torment.”
    “We comes from God, I from the Devil.” Yevgeny Zamyatin

    I appreciate your work on yourself its helped me out a lot. Especially embracing your story and moving on in the direction of your dreams.

  11. @Rugby
    Been thinking about this all the time while getting into my rage being expressed away from the internalized version I’m so familiar with.

    Do you have regular access to a heavy bag? Try to make an arrangement if possible. Many men have successfully worked the rage into a controllable form by pounding the heavy bag. If you’re not familiar, get enough instruction to be able to hit it properly – you can injure yourself if you just start whaling on it – and work that thing until the rage dissipates. Repeat as necessary. As a bonus, you can increase your punching power.

  12. @KFG – That’s where we disagree. It seems to me that there are more than a few white supremacists on the alt-right. In any event, I’m glad you aren’t one. I guess it’s personal for me. As i’ve mentioned here before, my brother married a black woman. A very good person. I know her family well. I have a half black niece. She’s a straight A student, yellow belt martial artist, at 7yo and is just the cutest and most precocious little girl you’d ever want to meet. I can’t talk about this in the abstract.

    I was also deeply affected by the following conversation. I was hanging out with the sis-in-law, on the beach, just the two of us as my brother had gone off somewhere. The conversation moved to the subject of race and she described racism as the feeling of hate that she got from some white people. She just wanted people to stop hating her because she was black. It was a basic sentiment, a personal one but somehow it got to me in a way it hadn’t before. I’ve had black friends but not many, and really had never had this conversation with a black person before. When I got that it felt like being hated for no reason, it just made it so much more tangible. Not some blathering on a YouTube video, but rather what its like to be subjected to that kind of derision and hate.

    And yes, I’ve felt that from black people. In fact one of the reasons I moved away from NYC was the racial hatred I felt directed at me more and more just on the streets. I was always a public transportation user, and it got to a point where I often found myself being glared at by a black person on the subway. But I think it’s notable to me because it’s infrequent.

    I won’t preach anymore, and don’t want to start a pissing contest. Just explaining myself.

    @Ruggers – Great share. Don’t know what to say about it in the sense that it made me feel a certain way but it’s hard to put it into words. But thanks.

    I’m taking a mental health morning, lol. Been working hard. Just chilling, curled up, deep-freezing cold out, snow coming down. Being a grain of sand on the beach, breathing in and out, rising with the wave, sinking into its trough. Got a pot of french roast brewed, time to fire up the guitar modeler and the looper and do my Saturday morning jam. Doesn’t suck to be me. I’m trying to “keep it in the day” these days. Stole it from the Stoics again, or at least my adaptation of Seneca’s approach to keeping himself motivated after attaining great wealth. He imagined he started each day with nothing. I imagine each day as its own journey, how far can I push the stone today?

    And this is what I feel is the universal struggle for every man. In Western society we are so fortunate to live in (or maybe its fading out now) a world where we can all have a “hero’s journey” through life. There was/is? such a surplus of economic opportunity that one could reasonably expect to do well if they just found a job, applied themselves and then tried to climb up the ladder a bit. Or you could start a small business. The country was littered with small businesses. They mostly didn’t get rich, but they were the anchors of communities. And they often offered stepping stone, first jobs for many men and/or part time work for people who needed to supplement their income. A job where you learn to show up on time, dressed the way you are supposed to, and how to get work done. Wow, those days are long gone.

    All of these experiences rewarded a certain kind of industry, discipline and mental focus. They were competitions, tournaments, not unlike intersexuality for men. The entire society was more engaged in the free market. Govt was so much smaller, we were a net exporter of manufactured goods. Factories were teeming in places like Brooklyn and Detroit. And Buffalo. And Pittsburgh and many, many places. The saying, “The Business of America is Business” was born.

    Not today. We have just been lead by Prog-Marxist fascists who have revealed they will stop at nothing in their pursuit of power. They see the U.S. and Western Europe as their play-thing for their social engineering project. I think this changes how many men see themselves. I was working oddjobs at 13 and had my first job, on a farm, at age 14. Worked ever since.

    I feel it myself. I’m sailing into the wind in so many ways in this world. Sometimes it seems as if the entire world is screaming, “Give up, go lay down old man.” Perhaps it’s just me. Of course, my response is to take my dick out and waggle it around a bit, seems to put me back in the right frame of mind, lol. Fuck. That. Shit.

    And yeah, i just smoked some fine ass weed. Damn, bad boy doing a wake and bake, tee hee. Snowstorm, the amp, the modeler, the looper – it just invites some fine chronic. So if I rambled a bit, forgive me…

  13. @Scribbler: “That’s where we disagree. It seems to me that there are more than a few white supremacists on the alt-right.”

    We don’t disagree at all, a supermajority of actual white supremacists are alt-right.

    “In any event, I’m glad you aren’t one.”

    I have lived many places with many peoples and have found perfectly dandy people there. Even in the projects, pre-Civil Rights Act.

    I have also been surrounded by the actual, honest to God, Spanish Inquisition, in full battle gear, with hate in their eyes, for not being Catholic.

    “I won’t preach anymore, and don’t want to start a pissing contest. Just explaining myself.”

    More or less the same, except for giving you a good natured poke or two. The political spectrum has shifted massively since we were young, and I do not think you occupy the space on the current spectrum that you think you do. Classical Liberals aren’t even on it.

    And can’t acknowledge it because of who else occupies that space. There’s a term for that:

    Genetic Fallacy.

  14. Would I start a pua training for pay gig? never.

    Would I give some random guy on the web that has shown no responsibility or value,information that would help him to pick up a girl that may for all I know may be your or my daughter? never.

    I have always been perceptive,more than once as a youth I have used this to take unfair advantage and suffered or seen the consequences,neither of which is a pleasant experience,one of the maladies of insight i suppose.I have also been able at times to see what other people need and have found ways to help them get it or at least see it,the results of this action turn out better.

    There are a great bunch of regular commenters to this blog that have been helpful to me and many others for sure.Every time i read the comments and there is something I want to reply to someone else has said what I would before I get down to the comment box.There are many years of experience and wisdom here and if I have a question it is usually answered,sometimes by the young sometimes by the old.

    For the most part the OMG’s have the experience and insight to see what exactly it is that the YSG is missing and point them in the right direction.This usually doesn’t include any shortcuts.

    In my line of work it is better to share technical information freely with the competition,this helps everyone turn out a better product more efficiently,this improves the overall standing of the industry. It has never been a good practice to teach the tricks of the trade to someone that hasn’t first learned the trade. And if I badmouth anyone in the industry it makes the whole lot of us look bad. This practice doesn’t work well in the cutting edge of tech,sales,advertising and many other instances where loose lips can and do sink ships,and some info we don’t share.

  15. Scrub: “@KFG – That’s where we disagree. It seems to me that there are more than a few white supremacists on the alt-right. In any event, I’m glad you aren’t one. I guess it’s personal for me. As i’ve mentioned here before, my brother married a black woman. A very good person. I know her family well. I have a half black niece. She’s a straight A student, yellow belt martial artist, at 7yo and is just the cutest and most precocious little girl you’d ever want to meet. I can’t talk about this in the abstract.

    I was also deeply affected by the following conversation. I was hanging out with the sis-in-law, on the beach, just the two of us as my brother had gone off somewhere. The conversation moved to the subject of race and she described racism as the feeling of hate that she got from some white people. She just wanted people to stop hating her because she was black. It was a basic sentiment, a personal one but somehow it got to me in a way it hadn’t before. I’ve had black friends but not many, and really had never had this conversation with a black person before. When I got that it felt like being hated for no reason, it just made it so much more tangible. Not some blathering on a YouTube video, but rather what its like to be subjected to that kind of derision and hate.

    And yes, I’ve felt that from black people. In fact one of the reasons I moved away from NYC was the racial hatred I felt directed at me more and more just on the streets. I was always a public transportation user, and it got to a point where I often found myself being glared at by a black person on the subway. But I think it’s notable to me because it’s infrequent.”

    What you (and your sister in law) are experiencing is a natural part of tribal order.
    Humans are tribal for the most part. Anything outside the tribe is regarded with suspicion until “it” proves itself part of the tribe.
    I worked in a hospital with a physician who was the progeny of a Japanese mother, enlisted US serviceman father….but the father left and he and his mother were anathema in that culture. He was unclean, or something, as a half-breed. The level of ostracization he described to me (on a slow night, in the ER) was something beyond anything we could ever experience in the US. The interesting part is, he didn’t feel any resentment about it. I’m not sure what he thought as a young boy, but looking back he thought it shaped him well and made him into the person he was. This is a brilliant, brilliant man. He spend the majority of his career at John Hopkins. After thirty years, if you told him the name of any patient he had ever had he could write a list of every bit of their medical history. It was all recorded in his photographic memory.

    At any rate, he was the one who explained to me that humans are tribal/ pack animals and he used the example of dogs. If there’s a new one that is different, it has to prove itself right away or it is rejected. The barriers to entry differ depending on the environment. So for the most part, society at large organizes into groups that are determined in large part by personal interests/hobbies/ belief systems. If people are closed in and not permitted freedoms (for example, a prison system or very dangerous neighborhood) they congregate more by race.

  16. I should’ve added: ” they congregate more by race…..

    because in those environments that one of the more prominent distinguishing features….as is language.

  17. @Scribbler

    OT; In my county there bare over 1250 licensed grow operations,some of them are run by cartel,inside info,state electrical inspector recieves threats to pass inspections of some of these.
    A couple can raise 12 plants legaly without license,with todays hybrids this can equal as much as 22lbs of trimmed sensi bud and garbage bags full of shake that is better than the mohican crap going around in the 70s.
    There is more free weed going around,the warehouses are full.

    And like Blax I need to keep a CDL and am subject to random UA.

  18. @Anonymous Reader

    This response being both to you and the OMGs who agree with you RE: ‘Ride or Die Women’:

    -You described being with a ‘Ride or Die Woman’ as your path of *choice* (which establishes a positive framework for *choosing* marriage).
    -I responded saying that ‘Ride or Die Women’ don’t exist because hypergamy, though I wish they did. IOW, I wish your *illusion* in my view were true. But I don’t believe it has any basis in truth (so I think it is utterly foolish to marry).
    -You said that was ‘blue pill thinking’ for wishing it were possible (even as I advise against believing in unicorns that you believe can but whole-cloth fashioned – merely via your own will and BoP).
    -I’m saying that marriage itself is the most blue pill thing in the world, and you’ve chosen to be married. To that end, TRP for married men is about making the best of a shit sandwich if you made that choice pre-RP awareness. Rollo explicitly advises (which is rare) that men NOT marry.

    Get it?

    Again, this goes back to my main point – you’re in that life, you’ve gotta believe it can work. But of course – not only is there all the legal shit which is completely against you as a married male – many of you have kids and it’s easy enough to SAY you’d just move on, nuke your family, and fuck other women if your wife were to cheat. I’m sure you believe that. When D-Day arrives, you may act differently – you never know.

    The comment about women staying with crippled men perfectly illuminates my next point:

    Women are all about virtue signaling. Women don’t have empathy for men, full stop. Their apparent ‘demonstrations’ of empathy amounts to false moral posturing to make themselves look good. This makes sense, it’s what they do and who they are in all other facets of life, as TRP has discussed ad nauseum. So of COURSE they won’t leave a cripple – it would make them look horrible socially. Beyond that – they might proactively *marry* a guy who’s already crippled because virtue signaling and the resultant status whoring that entails…

    …but they probably, almost certainly, are discretely fucking around on the side, and will silently take it to their graves.

    That’s the problem with any of you believing in ‘Ride or Die Women’. You don’t know your wives are faithful. They’ll never tell you if they cheat. You underestimate their wherewithall to cover their tracks, and you overestimate your capacity to discern if something’s up. Because for the 3rd time, you have to believe it can work – you’re neck deep in that life. Ego-investment and inherent bias and all that. But I’ve seen and experienced too much evidence of and with married and ‘monogamous’ women, perfectly correlating with hypergamy and it’s applications via mind-blowing levels of deceit, to ever lend credence to your ‘Ride or Die’ archetype. Unless you’re cool with open marriages, of course. Are any of you cool with your wives fucking other men?

  19. Humans are tribal for the most part. Anything outside the tribe is regarded with suspicion until “it” proves itself part of the tribe.

    Interesting…some stuff in my social circle makes sense now…a girl hugged me tightly last night, invited me to her party, and asked for my number to verify the party…I think that she’s one of the leaders…I heard some casual comments about one of the girls who is pretty and fun and sweet…she doesn’t get much attention from men in the group…was a mystery…I overheard last night that she is a bullet to be dodged…apparently she has been banished from the group…mystery solved…discovered that I am now accepted into the group since I’ve been given inside info…I’m no longer regarded with suspicion.

  20. @Joe K

    Recognize that this life doesn’t offer high levels of certainty and control. That’s not even on the table.

    What do you want out of life? You can’t have what’s not available.

    But the sorts of things that are available may boggle the imaginations of the safely acculturated.

  21. Joe K
    -You described being with a ‘Ride or Die Woman’ as your path of *choice* (which establishes a positive framework for *choosing* marriage).

    Where did I write that?
    You need to be more careful in your reading.

    -I responded saying that ‘Ride or Die Women’ don’t exist because hypergamy, though I wish they did.

    Then I corrected this mistake. Now you’re confused.
    Hypergamy is all about the “best she can get” under her circumstances.
    The extreme loyalty shown by a “ride or die” woman is all about her perception that a given man is indeed the best she can get. The two are not contradictory.

    It looks to me that you are still trying to logic women using the premise that they think like men. They don’t. They emote like women and they think like women. Did you read War Brides yet? It’s important that you do so.

    Women are all about virtue signaling.

    Well, yes and no. Women are herd animals, they want to be doing whatever the rest of the herd is up to. Right now, this week, women are wearing boots across North America because all the other women are wearing boots. Don’t take my word for it, look around. Not just in the upper Midwest where it’s really cold, you probably can find women wearing boots down in the sun belt, places like Dallas or Phoenix or Atlanta. Because it’s what they are doing. The herd nature of women is why fashion works.

    The churchgoing woman I know who has a husband that’s crippled up is staying with him for multiple reasons, I ‘m sure. She’d point to quotes from the Bible, and I’m sure that she’d be sincere. But her social circle consists of other churchgoing women, and she gets lots of sympathy and support from them. Now, to be realistic, she’s over 50 and her SMV is surely lower than it was 30 years ago, and we all know that’s a factor as well. But part of it is her social circle – she runs in a subculture where divorce is a last resort, and only for one or two reasons. She’s not being pressured to go Eat/Pray/Love on him.

    Women don’t have empathy for men, full stop. Their apparent ‘demonstrations’ of empathy amounts to false moral posturing to make themselves look good.

    We know they don’t have empathy. That’s not news. They can be taught to have sympathy.
    That better be good enough, because it’s pretty much the best we can expect.

    You’re still looking at women as “men with tits”, it shows all over your writing. That’s not an accurate, realistic, way to think. So you keep making the same mistakes – confusing self-interest with malice, for example. Hypergamy is related to self interest. So is “ride or die” loyalty.

    If you were stuck by the side of the road with a flat tire and a broken jack, and a woman drove by without stopping, would you get all angry and accuse her of being malicious, cruel, wanting to hurt you, etc.? Or would you just dismiss her, because girls generally don’t stop for stranded motorists because they are afraid? That’s an example of self-interest that could be MIS-interpreted as malice.

  22. @Joe K – At least you offer an argument that is well thought out. But in the end, after it all, aren’t you still faced with the same choice? Do I want to play the game at all? I choose yes, in part, because I believe the game is inescapable.

    Existential suffering seems to be the nature of humanity, not the exception. The Buddhists believe that the essential nature of human beings is their suffering and that it arises due to the delusions our senses create and the stories we tell ourselves. Since they are unstable and delusional, building a sense of self on it is like building on sand, and the human is always twisting and turning, stopping and starting. Read Ecclesiastes, from the very beginning it’s a meditation on the human condition and human suffering and its inexorable nature.

    I’m deciding to play the game.

    Fyi, that doesn’t mean I’m particularly good about it. Mostly what this project has revealed is how much I had given up and was lying to myself about it. Cynicism is pernicious. It may be possible that I needed this existential kick, this challenge to awake myself from the torpor I was slipping into so slowly but surely, boiling myself in regret and hopelessness, and feckless rage.

    Uggh. It was ugly. So, for me, looking forward, and getting some play with game – gonna see my HB9 this week, he he, well, okay. It’s something. I’ve definitely got the trajectory of my biz and career going, I’m evaluating whether to exit my business and take on an executive role at a client company, a very good but hard choice to make. I’ve figured a lot out about my business this year so it’s very tempting to stay at it. But getting this foundation right again has been crucial. If i’m not doing good work and winning and getting paid well for it, I don’t feel right. I’m back, and in some ways, better than ever. And I’m just getting started. Either choice will pan out well.

    So, now I’m taking on my body, again. Recovered finally from the bicep injury and the abject give up I had over yet another injury (I know, I’m a whiner and it’s an excuse but it’s injury that has sidelined me 3 times over the past 6 years, and a couple of times earlier in life too). I’m doing a program designed for guys my age, whole body, and it’s very good. This time there is no stopping. Just put in every day. Already did my work out for today.

    2017. Buy the property I have my eye on. Fitness. Peace. Fun Everything else is bonus. Just putting together my career again is so huge. I literally almost crashed and burned. Whew. Talk about a diving catch.

    Now I respect myself a bit more again too, facing down yet another near death experience. Fuck that. I can pass for 42 in shape, no problem. Women still like me. I still enjoy life. Gonna buy myself cross country skis for Xmas, lake is freezing up early.

  23. Rollo axiom: the two sexes have contradictory reproductive strategies.

    Corrolary: Women love opportunisically, therefore men will seek to limit women’s opportuniies. There’s more than one way to do this.

    There should be something pithy to observe regarding women’s reproductive strategy and the level of resources. For sure the more resources, the more opportunities women demand. The high Middle Ages gave us the cult of Courtly Love which provided higher social status women more opportunities. The industrial revolution gave us the middle class, which has provided more women with more opportunities.

  24. I responded saying that ‘Ride or Die Women’ don’t exist because hypergamy, though I wish they did.

    Joe —

    Sure they do — you just have to remain her best option at all times, in terms of alternatives that are available to her for the same deal. If you’re not up to that, then, yeah, don’t marry. And if your woman spends her whole day around men who outcompete you, then, yeah, don’t marry. Don’t be stupid, in other words. Be one of the winners, one of the top guys, one of the guys she really can’t replace, never mind upgrade from, and you’re fine, because she knows that, and she’s in ride or die mode. If you’re not that guy, then, yeah, don’t get married.

    On female cheating — if your wife is cheating, you certainly had lots of warning signs ahead of her actually cheating that you ignored. Stuff like sex dropping off, affection dropping off, spending more money on wardrobe, spending more time on physical upgrading, spending time away from you more often and so on and so on. Unless you married a naturally promiscuous woman (and if you did, then you’re a dumbass), women don’t cheat unless they are dissatisfied at home — they’re not like us, they don’t generally cheat just because they want some strange (again, unless you married one of the ones (in a small minority of women) who is naturally like that, again in which case –> dumbass), but they cheat when they’re pretty dissatisfied with you. They are looking to replace you, for the most part, at that point. Most of them don’t get there quickly, so if she’s there and you don’t know it, then you’re pretty much a dumbass (see how that gets repeated?). In any case, if you’re really TRP, you’re at the top of your game, she has no better options and cheating doesn’t even enter her mind because she’s happy with you and satisfied and knows she can’t realistically replace, never mind upgrade. So your cheat risk goes way down.

    But, yeah, if you’re a beta, or you insist that women are like men or whatever, then don’t marry because you’re going to get royally screwed by most women if that’s how you are.

  25. Lost Patrol
    “Do you have regular access to a heavy bag? Try to make an arrangement if possible. Many men have successfully worked the rage into a controllable form by pounding the heavy bag. If you’re not familiar, get enough instruction to be able to hit it properly – you can injure yourself if you just start whaling on it – and work that thing until the rage dissipates. Repeat as necessary. As a bonus, you can increase your punching power.”
    Punched my hand into a concrete wall yesterday. Got angry at the female rage of emotionally validation and 4 of my dear buddy’s dying in the last 8 mouths.
    Thomas i knew for 10yrs of my life and even showed him good parts of Utah. Going to find a gym where i can do that. Krav maga was what i was into for awhile.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wod43ZB8bNw
    Doing lots of yoga and Lojong buddist work…

  26. @ Softek

    Hey, that study on indole-3-carbinol being made through fermenting cabbage is pretty cool stuff. I did not expect fermented vegetables to come back to hormones. I will pass that along to some guys who will be interested. Fermentation really is an efficient way to prepare veggies (and lasts indefinitely in the fridge, if you put it in before you see white mold on the surface). Full-on kimchi is a bit potent to be eating all the time, but I add tons of garlic and some hot peppers (no seeds, but whole) to whatever I am fermenting (usually something related to cabbage, plus turnip). wildfermentation.com is great, if anyone wants a basic recipe.

    You are right about dropping testosterone rates in our society. Higher rates of body fat are probably a big reason (through the negative feedback of elevated estrogen, a bit of a double-whammy). Yes, behavior can definitely lower testosterone, and I imagine that cognition could as well. (There is one study showing that men’s testosterone dropped 20%, just from crossing their legs.) All sorts of health issues can lower testosterone — although it is worth remembering that there is no true male equivalent to menopause.

    You should probably get your testosterone tested. When I was at my lowest, I found myself wanting to cry at the end of the day, for no reason. But the symptoms of low testosterone can be really hard to identify (anger and irritability can be symptoms, for example). It is partly for this reason that it is good to get tested, even if you are NOT low. It is good to know, for example, if your levels are at 800 now. If ten years from now you are at 400, and you are anxious or have low energy, low testosterone very well could be to blame — ie, even though 400 is not terribly low (Donald Trump tested at 470), your levels dropped in half, so that could be low for *you.*

    That last part is tricky — it can be really hard to tell, just based on blood tests, whether you are low or not (300-400 ng/dl is a major gray area, although it can help to also look at SHBG and/or free testosterone. Men with very high SHBG are exceptional in that they truly need very high testosterone levels.). If you are low, then treatment can be life changing. If you are not low, then it won’t do anything (but will shut down your natural production).

    Also, higher testosterone levels do not automatically guarantee that you will have masculine frame, but masculine frame is impossible with low testosterone — at least that has been my experience. In short, low testosterone is always bad, but the importance of testosterone beyond that is easy to exaggerate.

  27. @Novaseeker –

    I flat out disagree with your assessment of why a woman may cheat several years into a marriage/LTR. Blackdragon has written volumes on this, but the basic idea is that women get BORED of monogamy. The key difference between the genders, in his view (and my experience) being that men want to fuck around from day 1 of an exclusivity agreement – men’s desire to fuck around is omnipresent…while women do NOT want to fuck around for the first 1-3 years of an exclusivity agreement – yet they DO want to fuck around after the NRE wears off. Yes, this includes ‘very happily married’ women. Ask me how I know, from just a couple nights ago. Actually, fuck it – I’ll just say it – the ‘very happily married’ disclaimer came out after some shit (albeit short of fucking) had already gone down. I didn’t know. Then she was wracked with guilt. She seemed pretty fuckin’ conservative to me too, FWIW. I had her chalked up as a lonely, divorced corporate professional type.

    “I’m VERY happily married. VERY. I love my husband. I don’t know what I was thinking, I’m sorry, can I please just go now?”

    (@Anonymous Reader – this is why “Ride or Die Woman” will not necessarily remain sexually faithful, even if the mix of AF and BB she’s getting cumulatively is the best she can do with her aging and so forth. And her mind-boggling capacity for deceit = her husband/#1 man would never know.)

    As for your saying that *IF* a man doesn’t X/Y/Z, he shouldn’t get married – you are saying something explicitly different from what Rollo is now saying – which is that men should NOT get married in the present age. Period, full stop.

    I just saw this comment over on RP Reddit and thought it rang true, and was germane to this discussion:

    “If a girl lying is a dealbreaker for you, you need to consider what the alternatives actually are.

    You’re not going to find a girl who is completely honest with you. That’s a bluepill fantasy world right there. They all lie and misrepresent themselves as a matter of course. You aren’t going to find an attractive, nice, honest, faithful woman. Such a thing simply does not exist. Pick any one, perhaps two. But not all four.

    So if you accept that (and if you do not, please make sure it is evidence-based rather than hope-basted), what will you do with that info?

    You either stick with the devil you know… or you say “an honest woman is not available to me, I require honesty for an LTR, so I will not have an exclusive LTR’s” (this is my personal choice).

    Or you pick another woman and sooner or later you’ll catch her lying too.

    Seriously man, they all lie. Every last one of them. Never known one who didn’t misrepresent herself to me. Family, friends, girlfriends, FWB – sooner or later I find myself thinking “what the fuck, that’s not even the same lie you told me last week, keep your lies consistent at least”.

    What you’d like is an honest woman to build something with. Honesty is the foundation of a relationship. And I am telling you that it doesn’t exist, and you need to find a new way to relate to women that’s based on reality rather than brainwashing about how decent women are.

    Their worldview is so malleable and so persuasion based and so unrelated to the real world that they usually say things like “it’s all a grey area” or “there’s no such thing as absolute truth” or “there’s more than one way of looking at this” or “that’s your opinion, but other opinions are equally valid”.

    They’ll even say these things when presented with video evidence, thereby proving that it’s just a way to avoid responsibility as always.

    Point is – it’s not going to change with a different one. Adjust your expectations and live your life accordingly.”

  28. Joe —

    Of course she’s going to say she’s happily married. They all do. That statement has nothing to do with how attracted she is to her husband, however. It has everything to do with how she perceives herself and how she wants herself to be perceived (as a woman who is happily married). You really don’t know what’s going on in that marriage, how the husband is behaving, what warning signs have been flashed and so on. Again, in my own personal experience it is just not the case that there are millions of married women out there who are satisfied sexually in their marriages and yet are cheating because of boredom and the desire for variety. The ones who cheat under those circumstances tend to have had very interesting sexual histories prior to marrying, let’s just say, and outside the norm. There *are* millions of women who are sexually bored in their marriages because they are no longer that attracted to H (due to what H is doing, most often because he’s slouched into betahood) who are at risk for cheating, and they mostly would say, if you asked them, that they are “happily married”, because they *do* love their husbands in many ways, and the only issue they have is sexual boredom because they are not that attracted to H any longer cuz he’s become an unattractive beta. Anyway, it’s likely we’ll just disagree on this one, I think.

  29. Rugby11
    Punched my hand into a concrete wall yesterday. Got angry at the female rage of emotionally validation and 4 of my dear buddy’s dying in the last 8 mouths.

    No more of that concrete wall stuff. Ok? No more of it. Just don’t.
    Krav Maga and a heavy bag? Great stuff. Screwing up your hand, maybe permanently?
    No more of that. None.

  30. Scribbs

    in fact appreciate feminine energy tremendously. It does something viscerally for me that is irreplaceable. And it’s not really the sex, although that is wonderful. It’s the ineffable feminine sweetness and coyness and cuteness – I can’t put it to the right words but I wouldn’t give up on that for the world.

    I share the same sentiments… feminine energy, the good kind… the naive submission, the following… is very enjoyable…

    Having 4 daughters gives me a dose of that… As noted in The Philadelphia Story (1940):

    Tracy Lord: Oh? Then what has it to do with?

    Seth Lord: A reluctance to grow old, I think.
    I suppose the best mainstay a man
    can have as he gets along in years…
    is a daughter.
    The right kind of daughter.

    Tracy Lord: How sweet.

    Seth Lord: No, I’m talking seriously about
    something I’ve thought over thoroughly.
    I’ve had to.
    A devoted young girl
    gives a man the illusion…
    that youth is still his.

    Tracy Lord: – Very important, I suppose.

    Seth Lord: – Oh, very, very.
    Because, without her, he might be
    inclined to go in search of his youth.
    That’s just as important to him
    as it is to any woman.
    But with a girl of his own,
    full of warmth for him…
    full of foolish, unquestioning,
    uncritical affection…

    Tracy Lord: – None of which I’ve got.

    Seth Lord: – None.
    You have a good mind,
    a pretty face…
    a disciplined body that does
    what you tell it.
    You have everything it takes to make
    a lovely woman except the one essential.
    An understanding heart.
    Without that, you might as well
    be made of bronze.

    Tracy Lord: That’s an awful thing
    to say to anyone.

    Seth Lord: Yes, it is indeed.

    Tracy Lord: So I’m to blame
    for Tina Mara, am I?

    Seth Lord: – To a certain extent, I expect you are.

    Tracy Lord: – You coward!

    Seth Lord: But better that than a prig
    or a perennial spinster…
    however many marriages.

    Margaret Lord: – Seth, that’s too much.

    Seth Lord: – I’m afraid it’s not enough.
    I’m afraid nothing is.

  31. Joe
    (@Anonymous Reader – this is why “Ride or Die Woman” will not necessarily remain sexually faithful even if the mix of AF and BB she’s getting cumulatively is the best she can do with her aging and so forth. And her mind-boggling capacity for deceit = her husband/#1 man would never know.)

    You are still looking at women as “men with tits”. Did you read “War Brides” yet? It does not appear to be the case. Are you afraid of learning?

    As for your saying that *IF* a man doesn’t X/Y/Z, he shouldn’t get married – you are saying something explicitly different from what Rollo is now saying – which is that men should NOT get married in the present age. Period, full stop.

    Possibly. But so what?

    [RP Reddit]
    I don’t make time to read Reddit. The man who wrote that comment appears to be stuck in the anger phase of unplugging. That happens, ask me how I know? But eventually a man should process out of it. If nothing else, unrealized anger eats away at physical health in any of several ways. Ask me how I know that.

  32. @joe

    “I’m VERY happily married. VERY. I love my husband. I don’t know what I was thinking, I’m sorry, can I please just go now?”

    about 40 seconds before this you failed a shit test

  33. Hmmmm….we just went through this in the marriage debate.

    What I learned in that debate:

    Some guys lack true understanding of female nature and mode of operation. This is the point of AR’s ” men with tits “, and he is 100% correct. Novaseeker is also 100% correct. It’s just a little amazing that some guys are so resistant to getting this.

    For some guys the idea of a ” ride or die ” woman is unthinkable solely because they’ve never experienced any such creature. They think we’re talking about Bigfoot. No one in their social circles has experienced this either.

    Any dude that just believes that all women lie and cheat is self delusional. Again this sounds like superimposing their experience on society at large.

    But the biggest things that the marriage debate taught me is that any man that actively hates the notion of any kind of ltr/monogamous relationship will not be moved from his position through dozens of counter arguments.

    They are terminal. Life’s taught them some lessons that have caused a negative reaction as a rationalization and protective measure. This negates having to understand. ” If I can’t have it my way…fuck it all ” mentality.

    And I’m not sure if most guys that think like Joe K will ever see the other side. Ever. Life becomes black and white and absolutes.

    A cautionary tale for men.

    If every chick in your life lies to you, treats you like shit and cheats on you, what I do know with 100% certainty is this:

    It’s not them, it’s you.

  34. @Redlight

    Actually, no. I don’t even want to fuck married women. I have integrity. Unlike you, and many others, of course.

    @Blaximus

    No. YOU are delusional. Your wife may well have cheated on you already.

    This is becoming a stupid, purple-pill hug box for married guys fucking 40-50 something washed up ‘wives’ who have this incorrigible need to believe in their purity, even as virtually no other men would even wanna fuck said old wives.

    Meanwhile, I’m banging 20-somethings – both pro and non-pro, and telling you all how nihilistic all of it is….and you’ve got your fingers in your ears while chanting ‘NO NO NO I can’t hear you Joe K, my special snowflake unicorn will ride and die with me forever…’

    Non-OMGs – decide for yourselves. Which do you believe to be plausible? My philosophy, or their bastardization of NAWALT unicorn-dreaming?

  35. @Joe

    This is becoming a stupid, purple-pill hug box for married guys fucking 40-50 something washed up ‘wives’ who have this incorrigible need to believe in their purity, even as virtually no other men would even wanna fuck said old wives.

    lol, this is a problem??? No one else wants to bang our wives? We get to love the Old Lady idealistically and she doesn’t do GNO or have slutty friends or STDs? Wow, what problems!!!

    Meanwhile, I’m banging 20-somethings [skanks] – both pro and non-pro, and telling you all how nihilistic all of it is….and you’ve got your fingers in your ears while chanting ‘NO NO NO I can’t hear you Joe K, my special snowflake unicorn will ride and die with me forever…’

    I see little to salvage in the younger generation. I don’t disagree with your nihilism about the younger generation…maybe a FEW PERCENT are being reared well.

    Non-OMGs – decide for yourselves. Which do you believe to be plausible? My philosophy, or their bastardization of NAWALT unicorn-dreaming?

    I don’t think that there is disagreement between the YSGs and the OMGs about the younger generation of women. If a girl doesn’t mind you looking at her cell and FB on demand and doesn’t do GNO and doesn’t play Hide the Vagina ™, she’s probably not lying and cheating. Don’t expect…inspect.

  36. Lol.

    Been down this road already, including the tried and true ” you guys are in a hugbox!!!!!” Proclamations. *Yawn*.

    You don’t know what you don’t know Joe. Just that simple.

  37. @Rugby11
    Punched my hand into a concrete wall yesterday. Got angry at the female rage of emotionally validation and 4 of my dear buddy’s dying in the last 8 mouths.

    @AR
    No more of that concrete wall stuff. Ok? No more of it. Just don’t.
    Krav Maga and a heavy bag? Great stuff. Screwing up your hand, maybe permanently?
    No more of that. None.

    Rugby – believe it or not I was once a concrete wall puncher myself, and AR is right, you have to channel that into something else. You either hurt yourself short term, which means you now can’t even use the heavy bag for therapy, or you hurt yourself permanently and have now compounded the issues you are already dealing with.

    A physical outlet like heavy bag, martial arts, long distance running, etc. is not a cure for what ails, but can help you let off steam in the near term and keep your equilibrium. No doubt some chemical re-activity takes place that somebody here could explain. I only know lactic acid, the one that is your enemy and your friend when training.

    I don’t know what to say about your friends. There usually aren’t many useful words for that.

  38. Yeah….. what do I know about the Red Pill and women?

    I mean I banged so many girls in high school folks called me the Rooster, married the homecoming queen out of high school , listened to bad advice and beta-ized myself, recovered from gunshot wounds and divorce/ unfaithful spouse at the same time, banged near about 400 women since then, none of them battle cruisers, got laid like tile in places Roosh said where dead zones, fucked the best looking bitches on military camps down range, one with a 78 hog leg to whisker biscuit ratio, living with two girls now, one the same age as my daughter, the other 4 years younger, Ton Spawn on one hip, Half Ton growing in the other belly……

    Life is as nihilistic as you want it to be

    Don’t much care how a man lIves his life as long as he doesn’t cross me and mine but the preaching shit is a buzz kill. No matter who is doing the preaching. Life is fucking tough, to tough for some I reckon but meaningless? Naw that dog don’t hunt

  39. I permanently damaged my hand by punching a heavy bag without any gloves on. Hit it at a bad angle and dislocated something and ever since I can’t move my finger right and it’s permanently splayed out at rest.

    Even with a bag, safety first. I’d recommend hand wraps and then gloves and then you can really lay out on the bag without worrying about injuring yourself.

    Water bags are my favorite because they never settle. Always the same consistency. And also easy to hang up because you can fill them after you hang them. If I was gonna get one again I’d go for the 200lb since the 100lb swings around way too much.

    Back when I had a spot to hang it up it was the best pent up frustration reliever I had. I don’t care how good your conditioning is. Lay out on the bag for long enough and you will burn out any energy you could possibly have.

    Wraps make a huge difference, though, and when you put wraps *and* gloves on you’ll be good to go.

  40. AR
    “No more of that concrete wall stuff. Ok? No more of it. Just don’t.
    Krav Maga and a heavy bag? Great stuff. Screwing up your hand, maybe permanently?
    No more of that. None.”
    I know that its going to be ok. I am powerless over others. I am also not wholelly integrated. Death is something that when its self inflicted hurts. I find myself stuck between “What could i have done? Why wasn’t i available? Why do i think this has anything to do with me?
    Just got done doing a 40 mile run in a 100 mile two day event. Its calmed me down a lot.

    Lost patrol
    ” believe it or not I was once a concrete wall puncher myself, and AR is right, you have to channel that into something else. You either hurt yourself short term, which means you now can’t even use the heavy bag for therapy, or you hurt yourself permanently and have now compounded the issues you are already dealing with.

    A physical outlet like heavy bag, martial arts, long distance running, etc. is not a cure for what ails, but can help you let off steam in the near term and keep your equilibrium. No doubt some chemical re-activity takes place that somebody here could explain. I only know lactic acid, the one that is your enemy and your friend when training.

    I don’t know what to say about your friends. There usually aren’t many useful words for that.”

    One day at a time. I find that enclosing myself in a state of total selfishness is needed to keep me alive and open to whatever may come.
    https://soundcloud.com/joost-van-der-stelt/come-as-you-are-instrumental

  41. Gave you the gun blow me away…
    https://soundcloud.com/deftones_official/deftones-change-in-the-house

    http://health.usnews.com/wellness/mind/articles/2016-10-19/why-suicide-keeps-rising-for-middle-aged-men

    Rollo
    “Should it be a RP aware man’s attitude that he ought to help WK’s, Betas, Blue Pill men to become RP aware (however well it’s intended or accepted) or should a RP aware guy use BP men as useful tools to improve his Game and/or quality of life (outside of intrasexual contexts)?”
    http://heavy.com/news/2016/10/erdogan-ceren-facebook-live-stream-suicide-video-uncensored-footage-girlfriend-dump-break-up-shotgun/

  42. Serious question

    In Ross’s 5 stages of death,”denial’ “anger’ “bargaining” “depression” “acceptance” where does survivor syndrome fit in?

    Is this type of guilt something that is unique to males?

    Did Ross leave this stage out because she lacks empathy?

    Am I missing something,where survivor syndrome fits in one of the five?

  43. I guess syndrome isn’t the correct word.This is what I am talking about.

    From Kathleen Nader

    “Understanding and Assessing Guilt

    The emotion of guilt is associated with the realization or perception of wrongdoing (of having violated an important social, moral, or ethical rule; Chaplin, 1975). A person may feel guilty without being consciously aware of it. Conscious and unconscious guilt may act as an underlying factor in behavior, emotions and relationships. Although conscious guilt is experienced as very real, a distinction has been made between “real” (or “active”) guilt and “imagined” (or “passive”) guilt (Danieli, 1984; Lifton, 1993). Following traumatic events, an individual may experience “real” guilt for acts of commission or omission that resulted in the physical or emotional endangerment or harm of others. “Imagined” guilt (e.g., survivor guilt, guilt with an element of wishful thinking about one’s ability to act) includes the types of guilt that occur in the absence of having acted harmfully. Both types of guilt include self condemnation, and either can result in harm to self or others (e.g., punishing acts to self or others; the action or elicitation of rejection, disdain and/or punishment).
    Following traumatic events, guilt may be a complicated part of traumatic response; it is among the symptoms associated with more pronounced traumatic reactions. Guilt may intensify or complicate trauma and/or grief reactions (Nader et al., 1990; Schwarz and Kowalski, 1992). It also may result in hopelessness, depression and other problems such as self-harm, suicidal feelings, and substance abuse. Resolution and acting in the best interest of both the guilt-ridden and the offended may require the help of a skilled individual (e.g., therapist, clergy or, in some cases, a wise friend).
    Unresolved guilt, whether for actual or perceived offenses, can result in a multitude of problems including mental health difficulties, negative responses from others, and disrupted relationships. Guilt can immobilize. It can hinder or prevent well-being, trauma recovery, a normal progression through life, productive action and positive relationships. Recognized or unrecognized guilt can undermine relationships over prolonged periods or affect the kinds of relationships a person attracts to him or herself. It can keep the guilt-ridden individual “stuck” in suffering, depression, and/or self-recrimination. The attitude and demeanor of guilt may elicit reactions from others such as ire, punishment, or victimization. Guilt can punish more than the guilty. It colors interactions and the quality of life for the guilt-ridden and for those whose lives are affected by their moods and behaviors and by the level of their support, goal-setting and productivity.
    Like anger, guilt at its best is a mobilizer toward productive action. Staying focused on guilt rather than acting positively and toward resolution can be a way of avoiding facing other issues and emotions. For example, guilt can serve to keep an individual focused on a particular time period (such as the period before something horrible happened). It may give a false sense of control; a sense that the person was able to do something to prevent the harm (“If only I had…”). Guilt may prevent someone from facing other key issues or intense emotions, and, in that sense, may serve as an unrecognized method of avoidance (Chaplin, 1975; Nader, 1997). Unresolved guilt impedes recovery and produces difficulties for more than the guilty.”

  44. @Sentient – Brilliant. Coming around to the Platinum Life, fyi. The problem is that my behavior and my head were so out of line with having it all, and being a high value man ultimately. Seeing how far I’d fallen, how little I gave a shit about myself was quite shocking. But incredibly important, and I’m closing the gap like a motherfucker.

    I’m re-examining some things that I never looked at before. Like I think making money has to be hard. And how I see struggle as necessary. I had a Blue Pill, donkey-Irish work ethic, lol. Like I’m working on an assembly line or something.

    I’m taking a job as an exec running a team for an emerging company. Seat at the table. Player status. What I’ve wanted for my whole life. 1 of 3 guys running the company. Yeah. Fuck yeah. I realized that I need a win on the resume as a last note. Return to consulting in 5 years having grown a biz 10x…Or more.

    Now to build the home base. Gonna buy the place I rent in 2017. Lakeside for life, brothas. And I negotiated the job so I only have to be in 2 days a week, and continue to live lakeside, lol. I was talking to my HB9 last night and she said, “I see you like a wizard or something, up there in the woods just living by your own rules, making the world conform to you.” She closed by reminding me that I’d better make time to see her this week when in NYC. Lol. She values me now.. I’ve turned that around 180 degrees. I’m not chasing anymore, she’s chasing. Crazy. Fucking crazy. But only to be my occasional fucktoy while she looks for a long term mate, lol. Tell me, who created that narrative for her? He he…

  45. @Stuffingbox

    “In Ross’s 5 stages of death,”denial’ “anger’ “bargaining” “depression” “acceptance” where does survivor syndrome fit in?”

    It doesn’t.

    It’s descriptive, not prescriptive. (where have we seen that statement before?). There are too many different variables in grief including some people adapt easier and faster and some don’t.

    It was partially prescriptive for doctors relating to patient’s that were dying. In other words to ease the patients into the grave. To give the patient respect, because before her ideas, it was common to withhold how ill a patient was and only tell bad news to the family. Kubler-Ross thougth that was weakness on the part of the doctor to not be able to relate to and respect the patient in the process of death.

    It was based on stages of how patients died, then she adapted it to how we grieve. In “On Grief and Grieving,” Kubler-Ross insisted that the stages were “never meant to help tuck messy emotions into neat packages.”

    So it get’s to be more of an outside observation looking at someone who is going to lose or has lost something.

    Survivor syndrome or moving on from guilt or grief or bad childhood needs practical advice. You won’t find that in Kubler-Ross. She was more about having dignity for patients who were dying, something that wasn’t exactly present in the medical system before that. And hospice programs were a welcome outgrowth of that. I’m a big fan of hospice.

    Around here regarding Red Pill, the only bit of practicality to The Stages is to have judgmental guys be judgmental when a guy is trying to make it through red pill triage. Calling guys out for not moving on in a healthy masculine red pill and game way.

    I was recently talking to a guy grief counselor who lost his wife and is now paired up with (married, I believe) another woman grief counselor, and he finds no practical advice in Kubler-Ross’s work. He employed other non-specified “systems”.

    Kubler–Ross didn’t even do grief well at the end of her life and had to write another book to find meaning in hers.

    An excellent article on the overview of her was in the NYT:

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/02/01/good-grief

  46. I am fond of “Returning to the Grass,” a plains Indian paradigm of death and dying, for which Google turns up squat all, so for the “If it’s not on the Internet it didn’t happen,” paradigm followers I guess it can’t happen.

    I note that “Returning to the Sea” works the same for the waterborne.

  47. Should it be a RP aware man’s attitude that he ought to help WK’s, Betas, Blue Pill men to become RP aware (however well it’s intended or accepted) or should a RP aware guy use BP men as useful tools to improve his Game and/or quality of life (outside of intrasexual contexts)?

    @rollo
    to answer your question from my perspective:

    WK’s? No, fuck ’em, they have taken what is presumably a moral stand or at least they think so for some reason or another. Perhaps they are playing WK game. either way most WK’s are going to run afoul of most RP guys. IF WK’s can be used as a foil against which you can illustrate RP points to others? Sure, why not, it may end in tears but whatever.

    Should I help a Beta or AFC to become RP aware? Well it depends. Some are too far gone you will never get to them. As has been stated before once they get to a certain age only a traumatic event is going to bring them around. So if I happen to be standing around while that trauma is happening, perhaps I could chime in if appropriate. It really depends on the guys potential to fulfill an RP life however. If you bring someone to RP is it not like saving their life? Do you then have some responsibility to guide them further through the rough so to speak? You don’t want some Sypher who is going to come on board then bail out later and turn on you to keep his BP illusions in place. Simply not worth the effort or risk to be flamed out by an Elliot Rodger kind of guy who “tried game” but never broke through his own limits, those ones are dangerous when they snap back to the comforting illusions of the matrix. In their wake they will go scorched earth policy towards RP so its best to be sure about guys before you broach the subject.

    That having been said, its totally different if its a young guy. Can you save him before his wiring is totally fucked? fine, ease him into it, see if you can set the hook, then get him up and running with some quick wins. If he has half a brain he can figure it out from there.

    Should RP men use BP men outside intrasexual contexts? How can you not do that? I mean really at some point living IS game period. People have buttons, game teaches you to use those buttons, to be good at game you need to keep practicing it with anyone and everyone so why wouldn’t you?

    You can do things to improve your game I assume that may or may not take advantage of lesser beings and their ignorance. You can be nice about it or cruel.

    Game is amoral
    Hypergamy is amoral
    Nature is amoral

    Gamers gonna game
    Chumps gonna chump
    Chicks are gonna branch swing and be emotional

    What are you going to do?

  48. @SJF

    Kubler-Ross insisted that the stages were “never meant to help tuck messy emotions into neat packages.”

    You DO know that K-R admitted that her “five stages of grief” weren’t based on any evidence other than her keyboard jockeying, right?

  49. From Athol…

    Hi there,

    I suspect that most of you have realized that this day is coming, so I’m not expecting surprise as much as an all purpose “oh well” now that the day is here.

    I’m closing the forum on 12/27/16. It’s the last day of the billing cycle for the hosting service. Per Vanilla Forums they will then purge the database wiping everything and there’s no coming back from that.
    We’ll be cancelling the remaining Gold Member subscriptions and refunding any overpayments greater than a month of time.

    I’m also going to be turning Private Messaging back on so that if people want to continue communication with each other, you can arrange that via PMs yourselves.

    And yes, my decision is final. Not changing my mind, please don’t try and come up with some kind of workaround solution to keep the forum running.

    I’m sure the question on everyone wants answered is “why shut it down?”

    I have some large primary monkeys I’m trying to juggle. (1) Content Creation, (2) Coaching, (3) My Personal/Family Life and (4) The Forum.

    For a very long time I’ve been trying to juggle all four and becoming increasingly exhausted by it. I was of course aware of this, but also figured mid-2017 with the last kid off to college it would be a finishing line of sorts. I really had no idea I could have a heart attack and 2016 has been a horrible shock.

    Coaching is enjoyable, a major income source and the forum only provides about 6-7% of the leads for my coaching calls. Coaching does take up a lot of time and energy though.

    The blog and social media in general has largely been falling by the wayside, and it provides greater exposure to my content and business. Likewise everyone asking “when are you coming out with a new book?” has been disappointed in my answers for a while here.

    My personal / family life has been stretched thin at times and 2016 has been extremely hard on Jennifer. I am extraordinarily lucky in having her in my life.

    So something has to give, and the only thing that can give is my continued support of the forum. Looking back I’ve been increasingly ill since the end of 2014, the heart attack was March 2016. It’s been nine months since then and I’m only just starting to feel *somewhat* normal. I really have to get back to content creation though.

    I also cannot delegate the running of the forum to someone else. Please just accept that I’ve considered it and rejected this option.

    That being said, part of the reason I’ve let the forum exist for as long as I have, is that I appreciate that so many of you have a deep attachment to it and to your other forum members. I’m sure that it feels somewhat unfair of me to end it and for that I am sorry. There are many people here that I will actively miss as well.

    Most especially I would like to thank Rebecca / @Serenity for all her assistance in keeping things going as long as it has.

    I’m also grateful for those that have helped with moderation and the many of you who have been contributing help to others for so long.

    I’m also extremely grateful for this experience. I’ve learned a massive amount and it’s certainly helped round out my overall viewpoint and skill set. I’m a better thinker, coach and person for all of this.

    In terms of my future and the future of MMSL, I’m for the most part heading to a combination of Youtube for the free content, and setting up shop on most likely a Teachable platform for paid online course work. Generally switching content branding to fall more under the Chain of Seduction model as well. The coaching will continue and I’m also looking to have more fun with life in general.

    The heart attack recovery is going okay. It’s a much longer road forward than I could wish for. I don’t advise having one.

    So TL:DR… the forum ends so I can move forward. It’s just time.

    Athol

  50. @Rollo

    Translation: Men no longer take this forum with any degree of seriousness.

    Translation: Red Pill Men no longer take this forum seriously.

    It was run by women at the end…never take relationship advice from a woman…with Dr. “I forget her name” excepted.

  51. Imagine that, a thread about emotionalism doesn’t get much traffic on the rational male. I guess it is oil and water

  52. Forge, we may as well discuss it, season or not. Athol Kay was a big part of the androsphere for some years, I pushed MMSL on various men and on various comments in blogs, because he had an action plan that generally worked. To read that he had a heart attack last March is disconcerting, because it isn’t what I would have expected to happen to the man who wrote the original Male Action Plan. I fear that going purple pill has affected his stress levels, his diet, and thus his health. This is not in the spirit of piling on, this is “look, he had the right mindset and didn’t maintain it properly, then this happened”.

    At least he’s still alive. Initially I had an emotional reaction similar to about a year ago when I heard of yet another man over 40 killing himself – I still don’t know the what/why on that one, either – but of all people, Athol should know that he can be killed “on the installment plan” by woman / women, if he lets it happen.

    Geeze. What a mess. The men who could help him the most are the men he’s least likely to pay attention to.

  53. “The men who could help him the most are the men he’s least likely to pay attention to.”

    Lot of that going around these days.

  54. I have continued in the reading that you guys have suggested to me, and none of it really addresses what I have mentioned here. It seems so obvious, and I am not sure why it is being missed. I will quote from the futurist article:
    —————–
    “Bust most importantly, ‘feminists devalued the traditional areas of female expertise (raising the next generation of citizens), while attaching value only to areas of male expertise (the boardroom, the military, sexual promiscuity) and told women to go duplicate male results under the premise that this was inherently better than traditional female functions. Telling women that emulating their mothers and grandmothers is less valuable than mimicking men sounds quite misogynistic to me, and unsurprisingly, despite all these ‘freedoms’, women are more unhappy than ever after being inflicted with such misogyny.’
    ———–
    Ok, lets look at this objectively. Why would feminists encourage women to pursue careers in their 20’s and not even think about kids until the moment when it will be a biological ‘do-or-die’ scenario? Why would women be told to take that risk, and try to compete in the area where men have a natural advantage? Why not pursue the area where women have a natural advantage (having and caring for children) at a time when it would be easiest (in their 20’s)?

    The answer is obvious — the world of work is valued far more, and that is the area where men have a natural advantage. The massive advances brought by technology and capitalism have made the men’s role far more lucrative and prestigious. Yes, women are trying to artificially gain an advantage, through equal pay, welfare, child support, etc, but only because men have the power to begin with.

    This all comes down to the fact that human beings’ advantage (with using our brains, tools, etc) only works to the advantage of men’s role as providers (which is not to say that individual women can’t also succeed in this area). Even areas where women’s’ lives are easier, it is through technology that has mostly been invented by men. But to be fair to women here, none of this makes men better than women. Technology just happens to allow men to multiply their ability to be providers 1,000-fold But for women to somehow advance their ability to be caring mothers — I am not sure what that would even mean. Giving your kids education that would not be available to your grandparents — that is only possible through economic advantage and technology, which again traces back to men’s role as provider.

    None of that make’s Rollo’s warnings about hypergamy and the female imperative void, but you can avoid most of the risks by refusing to have kids or to get married. Of course there are social costs as well, which will ultimately fall on everyone.. If we redistribute personal wealth, we will ultimately get less of it. But modern life is still inherently more rewarding to men than to women. The fact that men vote for politicians who support economic redistribution far less than women do, just goes to show that the respective sexes know that the current socioeconomic order naturally favors men (it’s no accident that the *married* women vote exactly like men do — they benefit when he benefits, unlike single women who are overwhelmingly Democrats). Feminists know that men benefit too, even if they refuse to acknowledge the reason why.

  55. The answer is obvious — the world of work is valued far more, and that is the area where men have a natural advantage.

    Incorrect, though we are meant to believe so. You are interpreting this through the perspective of social constructionism rather than simple Hypergamous doubt. The longer a woman is capable to postpone her consolidation of the Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks duality of her Hypergamy the longer she has to find an optimal arrangement for it.

    https://therationalmale.com/2016/09/13/stalling-for-time/

    Look at the Real Reason Women Freeze Their Eggs. It is not because they want to develop themselves in the working world, it is simply because they want the longest possible window – no matter how unrealistic that is – in which to optimize Hypergamy. The cover story is as you’ve stated, work is more valued and women can participate, but this makes the egalitarian-equalist mindset mistake (once again) of believing men and women are functional equals with functionally equivalent purposes and goals in life. The simple truth is they are not.

  56. @AR

    I meant that the holiday season has, by nature of its responsibilities, made me unable to comment much – not that it’s made me unwilling to say harsh things.

    I’ve not followed Athol for a while. I’m sorry to hear of his heath troubles. He failed to hold frame at a crucial juncture in his ability to help other men, but this doesn’t make me resent him. Hell, I’ve lost frame too often to count when a woman wants to control shit. It’s just how it goes.

  57. Rollo, thank you for the response and the link.

    If society valued a women’s role, then we would not see women with serious aspirations waiting until it is almost impossible for them to fulfill their role (ie, have children). Those 38 year old women are having their eggs frozen because they know it is almost too late. Even with frozen eggs… if they really want children, then they need to be in an awful rush to meet Mr. Right. (And I agree that the “Mr. Right” argument is obviously absurd: You have leisure to find Mr. Right in your 20’s, not when the clock is ticking.)

    Whether women are putting off family for career or AF, or just laziness and inertia that society is indifferent to, the point is that society does not particularly value what women bring to the table. Feminists want women to work and have fun in their 20’s (basically follow men’s lead, as the Futurist article suggests and rhetorically calls “misogynist”). If their female roles were actually rewarded by society, then they would push women to have children first, then pursue a career. In fact, if we valued women’s roles *at all*, we would do that. But the highest value has been placed on mirroring men’s life trajectory as closely as possible… which includes often waiting until you are middle aged to start a family.

    As a guy, I really see nothing to envy in this. Why be a women trying to play-man, when you can be the real thing? Society has tried to come up with ways to compensate… tries to say that one female weakness (emotionalism) is actually a great strength, etc. This is to keep the social and political peace (ie, appease the part of society that sees men generally getting a better deal), as is child support and the rest…

    If your focus is on sexual options, then it is obvious why young men envy young women. But if you look beyond that, then you will see that modern society is built by and for men. And there is nothing more RP than that realization.

  58. BTW, we disagree with a big picture thing here, but I find your observations on women’s sexual strategy to be very helpful reading. Thank you for that.

  59. Biologically speaking a woman’s sole purpose is to get a womb full of alpha baby batter; whelp some youngin, lock down resources/ keep some alphas get alive long enough for her to repeat the process. They are baby production facilities. Hell most of them don’t realize it but that’s how nature works.

    Women get into the professional world to find a better selection of beta bucks and maybe have a chance of getting her jizz trap stuffed by some corporate alpha type

    Feminism is driven by a cadre of deranged bitches; not sure what they do, think, say etc matters all that much to run of the mill hatchet wounds, beyond giving them some operational cover

  60. Re: SFC Ton – “Feminism is driven by a cadre of deranged bitches; not sure what they do, think, say etc matters all that much to run of the mill hatchet wounds, beyond giving them some operational cover”. Spit my coffee out on this one.

    I have to disagree though. The effect on institutions is profound. You were in the military, I believe combat infantry, yes? You had to see it in govt and the military. The equalism, the prerogatives, the shaming of masculinity institutionally.

    But I do agree that the average everyday basic chick is pretty much whatever about this shit. My generation’s women are much more up tight about feminism. Good thing I don’t even consider fucking any of them anymore…

  61. I feel like a disdain for homosexuality is not necessary to be a truly masculine man. Traditionally I guess it was the norm, in the West. But you look at Ancient Rome, for example, and homosexual relationships were considered to be the ultimate form of masculinity, since it lacked any femininity, and it in fact was the norm. Of course today gay men are portrayed by the media as being very feminine and I think there’s some agenda there, or perhaps not (most gay guys I’ve met are very feminine and come with that gay-lisp, practically heralding their gayness). The exception to this, of course, is in the porn industry where gay men are portrayed as being high-testosterone, masculine men. I know not much is said about homosexual or bisexual men on The Rational Male or Red Pill but I just wanted to leave this here.

  62. TouchstoneTheClown
    “The exception to this, of course, is in the porn industry where gay men are portrayed as being high-testosterone, masculine men. I know not much is said about homosexual or bisexual men on The Rational Male or Red Pill but I just wanted to leave this here.”
    https://www.youtube.com/user/thestevenstcroix

    Is it even sexual or can it be emotional?
    http://www.stevenpressfield.com/2016/12/detach-yourself-from-everybody/

    “Traditionally I guess it was the norm, in the West. But you look at Ancient Rome, for example, and homosexual relationships were considered to be the ultimate form of masculinity, since it lacked any femininity, and it in fact was the norm. Of course today gay men are portrayed by the media as being very feminine and I think there’s some agenda there, or perhaps not (most gay guys I’ve met are very feminine and come with that gay-lisp, practically heralding their gayness).”

  63. If emotionality is a feminine imperative and immediately reduces men to beta-status – why do women go berserk over ballad-crooning rock stars who are hyper emotional and perhaps some of the most emotionally expressive among us? There are innumerable examples – Robert Smith, Dave Gahan, Bowie, even examples from old days such as Franz Liszt. His story in particular is worth reading, women went absolutely crazy over him – a skinny, elegant man who appeared to do nothing more macho than play the piano and yet probably banged more princesses and countesses than anyone in history who did not themselves have royal blood.

    Many rock star types are not “archetypally” alpha…. i.e. they are thin, pale and often coquettish / effeminate. Yet the power that these men have over women is well known. How much of this is because of social proof of leadership – they adulate them because everyone else does? How much because they carry themselves as ‘superior beings’. And how much is because they are unafraid to emote? Mystery listed willingness to emote as one of the major attraction triggers. Anyone care to comment on this?

  64. Les

    Let me introduce you to the Alpha Triad – dynamic, passionate and authentic traits on display. This is what women find attractive, what Alpha is reduced down to… spanning the distance from sensitive frail musician to musclebound biker bully… and points in between like the Eagle Scout church deacon…

  65. @Rollo Got it. Great post. They demonstrate qualities of tribal leader. It also takes a certain fearlessness to dress in a way that might earn you a beating (or at least it did in the 80’s) – it’s peacocking.
    Also explains why I got so much more tail in my starving artist days. 😉 One advantage of being broke, you are SURE they are not after you for your money.. nowadays I can never be 100% sure, it’s a fucking drag even if my wallet is watertight.

    @Sentient. Yes. Is this “Alpha Triad” a recognized system from a specific book? Interesting how many and how disparate the “definitions” of Alpha. Another possible way to view it is that you could make a long list of “alpha qualities”, like cards in a deck, you can win a hand (pull) by having a strong suit, whether it is hearts, clubs, diamonds or spades….

    (it’s Lex; Les was a typo)

  66. Lex

    Yes you can make a long list… The purpose is to make the shortest list… What is consistent across the most scenarios?

  67. @Sentient – very interesting question! Perhaps ultimately only answerable by aggregating a large amount of tested infield research?
    Why make the shortest list? To shortcut your path to honing your strengths and maximizing your options, presumably. I also wonder if there is a “one size fits all” definition of Alpha and I think it partly also depends what type of chick you are going for. Females will have archetypes; do you think that the girl who goes for the dandy will still bang the commando if the opportunity presents itself (despite verbalizing “not my type”)?

  68. Sentients short list is an exhortation to move more toward Alpha and not debate the nuances of Alpha. Some guys just can’t manage two standard deviations above the mean of Alpha. That is not the issue. Move more toward that goal. The goal is toward being Alpha.

    To not debate the issue like the feminine imperative does and social conventions do. Social strategy is to stifle you. Your goal is not to stifle masculine Alpha.

    “one size fits all” definition of Alpha and I think it partly also depends what type of chick you are going for. Females will have archetypes; do you think that the girl who goes for the dandy will still bang the commando if the opportunity presents itself (despite verbalizing “not my type”)?

    This smacks of being in her FI Frame. What chick are you going for and creating yourself for her?

    Do you see what you are Archetyping for? Seeking to be in the frame and archetype the woman is wanting to lean in to her?

    You are advocating to fall into her Frame.

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