The Power of Emotion

boxitup

Science fiction has always sought to portray human emotion as a weakness to be overcome.
Some have gone further to express the notion of our physical being as a limiting factor. This is notably seen in 2001: A Space Odyssey.

I’m aware this is fiction, but I just want to reinforce the point from my earlier post that we don’t have to be held to eternal hostage by nature. We can strive to be better.
A quote from Terminator 2, sums it up admirably.

T-800 to John Connor: “I now know why you cry. But it is something, I can never do.”

While emotions are a part of our experience as human beings, Red Pill aware men need to understand the functionality of emotional responses. Rationality is, of course, the charter of this blog and my books, and while I make my best efforts to approach each aspect of what I write from as objective an origin as I’m able to, I also understand that there are limitations to remaining completely objective. I’m human like anyone else reading this (chatbots excepted) and I’ve always been fully aware that my emotional state, my own ego-investments and biases, as well as the observer effect are all something I need to make a conscious effort to account for while I’m writing about a new idea or observation I’m connecting dots with.

In a few prior posts I’ve made an effort to account for a balance between rationality and emotionalism. I say “emotionalism” because I think there needs to be a separation between the physical experience of emotion and the significance our fem-centric social order would have us place on those experiences. There is a difference between emotional response (evolved stimulus-response adaptations) and the ideologies that elevate human emotion to a metaphysical state (emotionalism).

Seeking, rage, fear, lust, care, panic and play are what are commonly recognized as primal emotions. I didn’t make this list up myself, these are just the most base-level imperatives from which more complex experiences of emotion are distilled. All of these root-level emotional experiences have been studied extensively and can be stimulated chemically and neurologically today. An easy example of this biological connection to emotional experience can be triggered and observed in the ‘roid rages’ experienced by the users of anabolic steroids.

Have you ever been “Hangry“? The feeling of anger / aggressiveness due to being overly hungry is an evolutionary survival adaptation. You’re far more motivated to kill and eat something if the feeling of hunger, prompted by its chemical triggers, also stimulates feelings of aggression. In today’s era that aggression may be inconvenient or anti-social, but our hunter-gatherer ancestors found it both acceptable and useful.

There are dozens of other examples I can give for the connection between our environmental, physical and chemical conditions and our emotional state. Similarly, there are chemical (dopamine) and behavioral prompts we associate with a particular emotional state. I don’t imagine this is anything revelatory to most Red Pill aware readers, but reviewing the objective aspects of emotion is necessary in order to separate it from the social influence of emotionalism.

Testosterone is well known to stimulate feelings of aggression and sexual arousal, but did you know that the chemical make up of testosterone is actually an inhibitor of the chemicals that prompt sadness and crying? When considered in this respect and the fact that human males produce 12 to 17 times the amount of testosterone females do, is it any coincidence that men may feel less compulsion to cry over things? Yet, men are shamed for “holding back” tears. This is an example of the connection between our physical experience of emotions and the importance to which our social order places on (primarily female) emotionalism. There are a lot of complexities that make up our emotional state and the more we study the influences of our own biologies the better we can make a connection between the evolved, survival-beneficial, effect these emotions elicit in us.

The nuts and bolts science of emotions demystifies the more magical, romanticized association we like to apply to them. And at the risk of prompting any kind of nihilism, it’s important that we consider our emotional state in terms of the concrete physical stimulus that’s provoking our emotional states. It’s easy to get into the science of emotions when we’re trying to solve a problem like clinical depression and the feelings and potential behaviors it evokes, but it’s much harder to look at upsetting an elated feeling of happiness. If it ain’t broke there’s no reason to think about fixing it.

But what sets us off about really coming to terms with the science of emotion is it tends to kill our gods. Up until advent of our understanding the cause and effect influences of emotion we’ve applied a lot of metaphysical importance to our emotions. Historically, our emotions have inspired us to create some of the greatest cultural and artistic masterpieces, and they’ve urged us to some pretty ugly atrocities too. Even today, western cultures raise emotion to a mythical grandeur. We romanticize and apply great significance to how we feel. We prioritize expressing emotions to being some enlightened state and the repression or control of them as some kind of horrible evil or some form of retardation.

Emotionalism

The Washington Post (I know, I know,…) recently published the findings of a study outlining how “sexist” men have psychological problems:

Researchers then identified 11 norms considered to be “traditionally masculine” — desire to win, need for emotional control, risk-taking, violence, dominance, sexual promiscuity or playboy behavior, self-reliance, primacy of work, power over women, disdain for homosexuality and pursuit of status — and looked to see whether they were associated with particular mental health outcomes.

In general, the men who stuck more strongly to these norms were more likely to experience problems such as depression, stress, body image issues, substance abuse and negative social functioning. They were also less likely to turn to counseling to help deal with those problems. The effect was particularly strong for men who emphasized playboy behavior, power over women and self-reliance.

As you might expect, what’s defined as “toxic” masculinity today is decided by people invested in a mindset that confirms the Feminine Imperative. This article follows along with what will likely be the Trump-era narrative for masculinity – anything remotely considered “traditionally” masculine will be conflated with a psychological disorder. The cure to which is, of course, ego-investing men in feminine-primary mental states; effectively feminizing men.

If we look at the norms identified by this study we are expected to nod in agreement about the negative, potentially damaging, connotations these traditionally masculine aspects imply. But they are only negative because the objective environment we are supposed to interpret them from is one of feminine primacy. Anything that can be considered an impediment to female societal control, any aspect of men’s intrinsic natures that lessens the same potentials of women is considered “toxic”.

Desire to win, need for emotional control, risk-taking, violence, dominance, sexual promiscuity or playboy behavior, self-reliance, primacy of work, power over women, disdain for homosexuality and pursuit of status – by orders of degree these are the foundational aspects of masculinity that’s been responsible for the advancement of humanity for millennia now. I’m not entirely sure what ‘playboy lifestyle’ entails, but consider the problems these aspects of male nature evolved to solve for men. Each one of these characteristics has a functional prompt; they didn’t evolve in a vacuum. These parts of masculinity were and are functional benefits to men. Only in a society that defines supremacism of women and the primacy of female-correctness do these aspects become negative.

I doubt it will come as any surprise to the Red Pill aware that all of these traits used to have a higher social value in virtually all social orders prior to our present one. It’s not enough to make female social interaction the preeminent one, masculinity and its conventional aspects must be pathologized. They must become a sickness if gynocentrism is to sustain itself.

I’m exploring this here because the female way of socialization is founded upon emotionalism. I think it’s important for Red Pill men to understand that the defining of what particular emotional states are acceptable is intimately linked to what those states mean to the Feminine Imperative. In the past 60 years western(ized) culture has become one in which the feminine defines the predominant cultural narrative with regard to intersexual communication, correctness and the psychological values we are meant to infer from it. This discourse is one that is primarily informed by women’s high priority on an investment in emotionalism.

In past essays I’ve outlined how men and women’s brains are neurologically wired for different, yet complementary functions. Women experience negative emotions differently from men. The male brain evolved to seek out sex before food. And while our feminine-centric social order insists that, in the name of equalism, boys should be forced to learn in the same modality as that of girls, the science shows that boys brains are rudimentarily wired to learn differently.

“Greater emotional reactivity in women may explain many things, such as their being twice as likely to suffer from depression and anxiety disorders compared to men,” Mendrek added, who is also an associate professor at the University of Montreal’s Department of Psychiatry.

Yet for all of these very evident physical differences in men and women’s experience of emotion, it is women’s experience, and a feminine priority for the ‘correctness’ of that experience we apply to men. I would suggest that much of this is primarily due to women’s innate solipsism, but we’ve normalized women’s experience of emotion as the common and correct one in terms of intersexual communication and social dynamics.

Emotionalism and the applying of metaphysical meaning to the feminine-correct experience of them has pervaded our social consciousness since the time of the sexual revolution. This elevated importance of emotion has been a part of popular culture for millennia of course, but until the rise of a socially mandated importance of female Hypergamy we haven’t had female emotionalism direct the course of society as it has for over sixty years now.

As such, we see that men “getting in touch with their feminine sides” is really a concerted effort to repress their natural experience of emotion as a male, and to attempt to force their own emotional states into ones females can identify with. As I mentioned above, there are literally biological limitations for a man to experience emotion as a woman as well as his impulse to want to prioritize those feelings as women do. The presumption is that a man is emotionally stunted if he feel that repressing his emotions is what he ought to do. “Boys don’t cry” is a sickness when it is women’s experience and importance of emotionalism that drives our social discourse.

Women bemoan men’s stereotypical lack of “emotional availability”, and we put a religious importance upon our capacity to express our emotions in some way, but all of this is constrained to the box that is women’s correct experience and importance of emotion. This is not what men’s brains are naturally wired for, and in a Red Pill context this is not what women’s hindbrains want from men.

It’s important for Red Pill men to understand that our feminine-primary social order is founded up the importance women place on the God of emotion. Part of your Blue Pill conditioning was to convince you, as a young boy, that the way women emote and the importance they put on emotion is what you needed to accept as the healthy, normal way of experiencing and expressing it. The truth is you are not wired to experience emotion as a woman will. That isn’t to suggest you deny or repress your feelings, but to understand that you shouldn’t feel bad for not feeling as a woman feels. This kind of goes back to the point I was making in Empathy; while it may be possible for a woman to sympathize with your feelings, she will never be able to empathize with them as a man would experience it.

Furthermore, it should be part of men’s unplugging to come to terms with the metaphysical importance women place on (largely their own) emotional states. They remove the functional aspect of emotion and elevate it to something only women have a unique sensitivity to understand. Separating yourself from this self-induced, self-applied belief in emotion can be a very powerful tool for a Red Pill man in his dealing with women – and not just the ones he’s intimately involved with. Separating your ego from the religion of emotion and coming to terms with the science of emotion is a very difficult step for Blue Pill invested men to make. As I said, it’s like killing your gods, but it’s also killing the notion of the emotionalism you think you need to identify with in order to connect with a woman.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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SJF
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“Sheaaaah….my first inclination is always to try to help other men.” Keep in mind that when you start talking about Fight Club (Red Pill Awareness and Game), your buddies will always default to distilled Game tactics quickly. Why? Because it is more seductive, immediate and more desirable. (It is also concrete and tangible with fast benefits.) And thanks to PUA tactics that have been distilled very well since Project Hollywood, it is relatively easy at first. It is very prescriptive. I’ve seen the dynamite go boom in their face more than I care to (but only twice actually). Red Pill… Read more »

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“Should it be a RP aware man’s attitude that he ought to help WK’s, Betas, Blue Pill men to become RP aware (however well it’s intended or accepted) or should a RP aware guy use BP men as useful tools to improve his Game and/or quality of life (outside of intrasexual contexts)?” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDadfh0ZdBM Well intended or accepted with honesty… Embracing the agony and the terror of taking away everything your told is the way of life must be replaced with something else Immediate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgBViHeiSKM Otherwise you revert back to old familiar ways. Is it better to help someone halfway or… Read more »

SFC Ton
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White knights always back down. Sure they might be pissed you’re banging the 20 year old hottie and not them but they always back down. Always

stuffinbox
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“Should it be a RP aware man’s attitude that he ought to help WK’s, Betas, Blue Pill men to become RP aware (however well it’s intended or accepted) or should a RP aware guy use BP men as useful tools to improve his Game and/or quality of life (outside of intrasexual contexts)?” I first always try to help and don’t like to repeat myself,some guys don’t want to get it they want me to get it.I dont suffer fools gladly. As for using people,as that goes,I have to work for some WK,Beta,Blue pill men and quite often single feminist women.And… Read more »

kfg
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Blaximus
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…Wild making the rounds, huh?

kfg
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And continuing to win friends and influence people wherever he goes.

Blaximus
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@ Rollo Whether or not I help a WK or beta dude depends on 2 things: 1) How I happen to be feeling that day 2) If the guy is open to hearing, or if he’s a jerk. I work in very close proximity to 2 super Knights. Both are like the Ironman of betas. Over the years I have not been able to impart any knowledge to either. ! of them in particular really gets under my skin with his pronouncements. So whenever I can, I will say unspeakable things to females in his presence and laugh as he… Read more »

stuffinbox
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Thanks for the link kfg.

Looks as if wild man is even more unhinged than usual,more so than Boxcar seems.

theasdgamer
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@Rollo @ASD & AR, all, Question: Should it be a RP aware man’s attitude that he ought to help WK’s, Betas, Blue Pill men to become RP aware (however well it’s intended or accepted) or should a RP aware guy use BP men as useful tools to improve his Game and/or quality of life (outside of intrasexual contexts)? It’s generally to all men’s advantage that RP awareness spreads. As RP awareness spreads, men will generally see an increase in their status and men will get laid more often, generally. There’s nothing to prevent men from using RP solely for their… Read more »

Lost Patrol
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@ASD & AR, all, Question: Should it be a RP aware man’s attitude that he ought to help WK’s, Betas, Blue Pill men to become RP aware (however well it’s intended or accepted) or should a RP aware guy use BP men as useful tools to improve his Game and/or quality of life (outside of intrasexual contexts)? I agree with the consensus so far, which sounds like BOTH. If you are RP aware, there are some men you will want to help due to close personal association, you like him, or you’ve just decided he’s worthy for whatever reason. There… Read more »

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Blaximus If a guy looks like he really could use some words of wisdom, I am down for the cause. It’s been my experience though, that the lion’s share of these guys will never listen under normal circumstances. Anonymous Age 60-something used to observee over at Spearhead that a lot of men in his age group would simply not listen to any advice until they’d been frivorced, and a lot of them stayed in denial for months after that. Some people just won’t learn, not even the hard way. It’s been a real challenge to me over the years to… Read more »

kfg
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“I agree with the consensus so far, which sounds like BOTH.”

Ya gotta play it as ya feel it, with the particular man, at the particular time, but take of yourself first.

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@kfg Geeze, that’s like being depantsed midfield, right on the 50 yard line, during homecoming. You know, I almost feel pity for Wild Person, except that his mindset is so rigidly bound to his “equality” premise that he just refuses to examine it. He brought this on himself by throwing his usual word salad – wait, his usual ontological word salad – all over someone else’s blog while just refusing to read any replies. At this point it’s getting to be more like some guy who thinks he’s Bruce Lee hitting bar after bar, picking fights and getting bounced, then… Read more »

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Speaking of taking advantage of betas,WK’s,Bluepillers and AFC’s.

” maybe we could try linking Wild Person up with RooshV? In an ontologically egalitarian way, of course.”

The O.E. connection could be a bigger hit than tinder, million dollar idea?

kfg
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“At this point it’s getting to be more like some guy who thinks he’s Bruce Lee hitting bar after bar, picking fights . . . ”

Only this time he tried it in Bruce Lee’s bar.

Anonymous Reader
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Power of emotion in the UMC / UC world. Maybe Opus can drop by for some droll tales. Beta-boy banker finds out about his wife’s recreational activities, hilarity ensues. This article looks totally different to me now than 5 years ago. I especially am amused by her little lies to deflect his wrath from her “sex game”, and for sure there’s sexytime fun on that sheet of paper that she’s never done with him, maybe even refused to do. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/16/credit-suisse-banker-spat-wifes-face-finding-abouther-sex-games/ He’s still guilty of assault for spitting on her, too, so dirty laundry all over the street. Note that she’s… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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Not too serious but

Mocking masculinity b/c some products target men

http://thechive.com/2016/12/16/men-will-go-to-great-lengths-to-protect-their-fragile-masculinity-20-photos/

It may be all in good fun, but the interesting thing to consider is why this is humor in the first place. I’ve seen people make fun of, say, pink rifles and so on, but it’s never assumed that femininity is ‘fragile’ as a result of being marketed to.

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@KFG – Had to bail on the thread for the past few days due to lots of work – a very good thing. But I wanted to respond to your “welcome to the alt right table” comment upthread a ways. What I don’t do is stop at that point of my observations about what white Westerners are doing to themselves. I realize that the U.S. actually proved that a multi-racial and multi-ethnic society could work if it had a mono-culture. And a balance had to be maintained to ensure that uniquely WASPy culture prevailed and dominated. Self-reliance, self-improvement, industriousness, modesty… Read more »

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@SFCTon – “Once you’ve overcome enough bullshit ie frame is strong enough you won’t much give a fuck if they are ride or die because you know damn well you’ll be back on top yourself or go down like a boss.” This. @Joe K – Not going to disagree with you, in the sense that I get that men can decide to do what you do. But here’s how it looks to me. I’m gonna to out fighting. Scrapping. Clawing. Never surrendering. Never giving up. Never believing I can’t have what I want. Especially with respect to women. I’ve got… Read more »

kfg
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@Scribbler:

“Tell me, do I make any sense at all to you?”

Totally; until it became about white supremacy.

Do you understand that you are alt-right, not a white supremacist, ergo: the alt-right is not white supremacist?

having a bad day
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@scribblerg

Ridiculous.

stop that…

the FI is cunning and pervasive…

good luck!

rugby11
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SFC Ton “White knights always back down. Sure they might be pissed you’re banging the 20 year old hottie and not them but they always back down. Always” Lost patrol “Besides, part of the fun of it is throwing a RP grenade into a room once in awhile to see what kind of reactions you get.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VYk_D7Mp0k AR ” It’s sorta like back when I learned water lifesaving and they drilled into our teenaged heads to always go for a life ring, or a stick, or a branch, or anything first because someone who’s drowning can climb right up on… Read more »

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@Rugby Been thinking about this all the time while getting into my rage being expressed away from the internalized version I’m so familiar with. Do you have regular access to a heavy bag? Try to make an arrangement if possible. Many men have successfully worked the rage into a controllable form by pounding the heavy bag. If you’re not familiar, get enough instruction to be able to hit it properly – you can injure yourself if you just start whaling on it – and work that thing until the rage dissipates. Repeat as necessary. As a bonus, you can increase… Read more »

scribblerg
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@KFG – That’s where we disagree. It seems to me that there are more than a few white supremacists on the alt-right. In any event, I’m glad you aren’t one. I guess it’s personal for me. As i’ve mentioned here before, my brother married a black woman. A very good person. I know her family well. I have a half black niece. She’s a straight A student, yellow belt martial artist, at 7yo and is just the cutest and most precocious little girl you’d ever want to meet. I can’t talk about this in the abstract. I was also deeply… Read more »

kfg
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@Scribbler: “That’s where we disagree. It seems to me that there are more than a few white supremacists on the alt-right.” We don’t disagree at all, a supermajority of actual white supremacists are alt-right. “In any event, I’m glad you aren’t one.” I have lived many places with many peoples and have found perfectly dandy people there. Even in the projects, pre-Civil Rights Act. I have also been surrounded by the actual, honest to God, Spanish Inquisition, in full battle gear, with hate in their eyes, for not being Catholic. “I won’t preach anymore, and don’t want to start a… Read more »

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Would I start a pua training for pay gig? never. Would I give some random guy on the web that has shown no responsibility or value,information that would help him to pick up a girl that may for all I know may be your or my daughter? never. I have always been perceptive,more than once as a youth I have used this to take unfair advantage and suffered or seen the consequences,neither of which is a pleasant experience,one of the maladies of insight i suppose.I have also been able at times to see what other people need and have found… Read more »

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Scrub: “@KFG – That’s where we disagree. It seems to me that there are more than a few white supremacists on the alt-right. In any event, I’m glad you aren’t one. I guess it’s personal for me. As i’ve mentioned here before, my brother married a black woman. A very good person. I know her family well. I have a half black niece. She’s a straight A student, yellow belt martial artist, at 7yo and is just the cutest and most precocious little girl you’d ever want to meet. I can’t talk about this in the abstract. I was also… Read more »

anon
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I should’ve added: ” they congregate more by race…..

because in those environments that one of the more prominent distinguishing features….as is language.

stuffinbox
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@Scribbler

OT; In my county there bare over 1250 licensed grow operations,some of them are run by cartel,inside info,state electrical inspector recieves threats to pass inspections of some of these.
A couple can raise 12 plants legaly without license,with todays hybrids this can equal as much as 22lbs of trimmed sensi bud and garbage bags full of shake that is better than the mohican crap going around in the 70s.
There is more free weed going around,the warehouses are full.

And like Blax I need to keep a CDL and am subject to random UA.

SFC Ton
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Carl Sagan can suck it

Joe K
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@Anonymous Reader This response being both to you and the OMGs who agree with you RE: ‘Ride or Die Women’: -You described being with a ‘Ride or Die Woman’ as your path of *choice* (which establishes a positive framework for *choosing* marriage). -I responded saying that ‘Ride or Die Women’ don’t exist because hypergamy, though I wish they did. IOW, I wish your *illusion* in my view were true. But I don’t believe it has any basis in truth (so I think it is utterly foolish to marry). -You said that was ‘blue pill thinking’ for wishing it were possible… Read more »

theasdgamer
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Humans are tribal for the most part. Anything outside the tribe is regarded with suspicion until “it” proves itself part of the tribe. Interesting…some stuff in my social circle makes sense now…a girl hugged me tightly last night, invited me to her party, and asked for my number to verify the party…I think that she’s one of the leaders…I heard some casual comments about one of the girls who is pretty and fun and sweet…she doesn’t get much attention from men in the group…was a mystery…I overheard last night that she is a bullet to be dodged…apparently she has been… Read more »

theasdgamer
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Carl Sagan can suck it

I think he took a dirt nap.

Forge the Sky
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@Joe K

Recognize that this life doesn’t offer high levels of certainty and control. That’s not even on the table.

What do you want out of life? You can’t have what’s not available.

But the sorts of things that are available may boggle the imaginations of the safely acculturated.

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Joe K -You described being with a ‘Ride or Die Woman’ as your path of *choice* (which establishes a positive framework for *choosing* marriage). Where did I write that? You need to be more careful in your reading. -I responded saying that ‘Ride or Die Women’ don’t exist because hypergamy, though I wish they did. Then I corrected this mistake. Now you’re confused. Hypergamy is all about the “best she can get” under her circumstances. The extreme loyalty shown by a “ride or die” woman is all about her perception that a given man is indeed the best she can… Read more »

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@Joe K – At least you offer an argument that is well thought out. But in the end, after it all, aren’t you still faced with the same choice? Do I want to play the game at all? I choose yes, in part, because I believe the game is inescapable. Existential suffering seems to be the nature of humanity, not the exception. The Buddhists believe that the essential nature of human beings is their suffering and that it arises due to the delusions our senses create and the stories we tell ourselves. Since they are unstable and delusional, building a… Read more »

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Rollo axiom: the two sexes have contradictory reproductive strategies.

Corrolary: Women love opportunisically, therefore men will seek to limit women’s opportuniies. There’s more than one way to do this.

There should be something pithy to observe regarding women’s reproductive strategy and the level of resources. For sure the more resources, the more opportunities women demand. The high Middle Ages gave us the cult of Courtly Love which provided higher social status women more opportunities. The industrial revolution gave us the middle class, which has provided more women with more opportunities.

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I responded saying that ‘Ride or Die Women’ don’t exist because hypergamy, though I wish they did. Joe — Sure they do — you just have to remain her best option at all times, in terms of alternatives that are available to her for the same deal. If you’re not up to that, then, yeah, don’t marry. And if your woman spends her whole day around men who outcompete you, then, yeah, don’t marry. Don’t be stupid, in other words. Be one of the winners, one of the top guys, one of the guys she really can’t replace, never mind… Read more »

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Lost Patrol “Do you have regular access to a heavy bag? Try to make an arrangement if possible. Many men have successfully worked the rage into a controllable form by pounding the heavy bag. If you’re not familiar, get enough instruction to be able to hit it properly – you can injure yourself if you just start whaling on it – and work that thing until the rage dissipates. Repeat as necessary. As a bonus, you can increase your punching power.” Punched my hand into a concrete wall yesterday. Got angry at the female rage of emotionally validation and 4… Read more »

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@ Softek Hey, that study on indole-3-carbinol being made through fermenting cabbage is pretty cool stuff. I did not expect fermented vegetables to come back to hormones. I will pass that along to some guys who will be interested. Fermentation really is an efficient way to prepare veggies (and lasts indefinitely in the fridge, if you put it in before you see white mold on the surface). Full-on kimchi is a bit potent to be eating all the time, but I add tons of garlic and some hot peppers (no seeds, but whole) to whatever I am fermenting (usually something… Read more »

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@Novaseeker – I flat out disagree with your assessment of why a woman may cheat several years into a marriage/LTR. Blackdragon has written volumes on this, but the basic idea is that women get BORED of monogamy. The key difference between the genders, in his view (and my experience) being that men want to fuck around from day 1 of an exclusivity agreement – men’s desire to fuck around is omnipresent…while women do NOT want to fuck around for the first 1-3 years of an exclusivity agreement – yet they DO want to fuck around after the NRE wears off.… Read more »

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Joe — Of course she’s going to say she’s happily married. They all do. That statement has nothing to do with how attracted she is to her husband, however. It has everything to do with how she perceives herself and how she wants herself to be perceived (as a woman who is happily married). You really don’t know what’s going on in that marriage, how the husband is behaving, what warning signs have been flashed and so on. Again, in my own personal experience it is just not the case that there are millions of married women out there who… Read more »

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Scribbs

Fitness. Peace. Fun

http://cdn02.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/headlines/2016/03/doug-flutie-looks-ripped-ahead-of-dwts-premiere.jpg

53 YO Doug Flutie…

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55YO Steve Lyon…

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Rugby11
Punched my hand into a concrete wall yesterday. Got angry at the female rage of emotionally validation and 4 of my dear buddy’s dying in the last 8 mouths.

No more of that concrete wall stuff. Ok? No more of it. Just don’t.
Krav Maga and a heavy bag? Great stuff. Screwing up your hand, maybe permanently?
No more of that. None.

Sentient
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Scribbs in fact appreciate feminine energy tremendously. It does something viscerally for me that is irreplaceable. And it’s not really the sex, although that is wonderful. It’s the ineffable feminine sweetness and coyness and cuteness – I can’t put it to the right words but I wouldn’t give up on that for the world. I share the same sentiments… feminine energy, the good kind… the naive submission, the following… is very enjoyable… Having 4 daughters gives me a dose of that… As noted in The Philadelphia Story (1940): Tracy Lord: Oh? Then what has it to do with? Seth Lord:… Read more »

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Joe (@Anonymous Reader – this is why “Ride or Die Woman” will not necessarily remain sexually faithful even if the mix of AF and BB she’s getting cumulatively is the best she can do with her aging and so forth. And her mind-boggling capacity for deceit = her husband/#1 man would never know.) You are still looking at women as “men with tits”. Did you read “War Brides” yet? It does not appear to be the case. Are you afraid of learning? As for your saying that *IF* a man doesn’t X/Y/Z, he shouldn’t get married – you are saying… Read more »

redlight
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@joe

“I’m VERY happily married. VERY. I love my husband. I don’t know what I was thinking, I’m sorry, can I please just go now?”

about 40 seconds before this you failed a shit test

Blaximus
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Hmmmm….we just went through this in the marriage debate. What I learned in that debate: Some guys lack true understanding of female nature and mode of operation. This is the point of AR’s ” men with tits “, and he is 100% correct. Novaseeker is also 100% correct. It’s just a little amazing that some guys are so resistant to getting this. For some guys the idea of a ” ride or die ” woman is unthinkable solely because they’ve never experienced any such creature. They think we’re talking about Bigfoot. No one in their social circles has experienced this… Read more »

Joe K
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@Redlight Actually, no. I don’t even want to fuck married women. I have integrity. Unlike you, and many others, of course. @Blaximus No. YOU are delusional. Your wife may well have cheated on you already. This is becoming a stupid, purple-pill hug box for married guys fucking 40-50 something washed up ‘wives’ who have this incorrigible need to believe in their purity, even as virtually no other men would even wanna fuck said old wives. Meanwhile, I’m banging 20-somethings – both pro and non-pro, and telling you all how nihilistic all of it is….and you’ve got your fingers in your… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@Joe This is becoming a stupid, purple-pill hug box for married guys fucking 40-50 something washed up ‘wives’ who have this incorrigible need to believe in their purity, even as virtually no other men would even wanna fuck said old wives. lol, this is a problem??? No one else wants to bang our wives? We get to love the Old Lady idealistically and she doesn’t do GNO or have slutty friends or STDs? Wow, what problems!!! Meanwhile, I’m banging 20-somethings [skanks] – both pro and non-pro, and telling you all how nihilistic all of it is….and you’ve got your fingers… Read more »

Blaximus
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Lol.

Been down this road already, including the tried and true ” you guys are in a hugbox!!!!!” Proclamations. *Yawn*.

You don’t know what you don’t know Joe. Just that simple.

redlight
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@Joe Special K

” I don’t even want to fuck married women. I have integrity. Unlike you, and many others, of course.”

Here’s a post that will be two years old this xmas:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2qdc08/psa_im_adding_broknighting_to_my_list_of_bannable/

what type of cruel fuck are you that you would deny a starving duck bread?

Lost Patrol
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@Rugby11 Punched my hand into a concrete wall yesterday. Got angry at the female rage of emotionally validation and 4 of my dear buddy’s dying in the last 8 mouths. @AR No more of that concrete wall stuff. Ok? No more of it. Just don’t. Krav Maga and a heavy bag? Great stuff. Screwing up your hand, maybe permanently? No more of that. None. Rugby – believe it or not I was once a concrete wall puncher myself, and AR is right, you have to channel that into something else. You either hurt yourself short term, which means you now… Read more »

SFC Ton
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Yeah….. what do I know about the Red Pill and women? I mean I banged so many girls in high school folks called me the Rooster, married the homecoming queen out of high school , listened to bad advice and beta-ized myself, recovered from gunshot wounds and divorce/ unfaithful spouse at the same time, banged near about 400 women since then, none of them battle cruisers, got laid like tile in places Roosh said where dead zones, fucked the best looking bitches on military camps down range, one with a 78 hog leg to whisker biscuit ratio, living with two… Read more »

SFC Ton
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Hit me up on my blog Rugby

Softek
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I permanently damaged my hand by punching a heavy bag without any gloves on. Hit it at a bad angle and dislocated something and ever since I can’t move my finger right and it’s permanently splayed out at rest. Even with a bag, safety first. I’d recommend hand wraps and then gloves and then you can really lay out on the bag without worrying about injuring yourself. Water bags are my favorite because they never settle. Always the same consistency. And also easy to hang up because you can fill them after you hang them. If I was gonna get… Read more »

rugby11
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AR “No more of that concrete wall stuff. Ok? No more of it. Just don’t. Krav Maga and a heavy bag? Great stuff. Screwing up your hand, maybe permanently? No more of that. None.” I know that its going to be ok. I am powerless over others. I am also not wholelly integrated. Death is something that when its self inflicted hurts. I find myself stuck between “What could i have done? Why wasn’t i available? Why do i think this has anything to do with me? Just got done doing a 40 mile run in a 100 mile two… Read more »

rugby11
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Gave you the gun blow me away…
https://soundcloud.com/deftones_official/deftones-change-in-the-house

http://health.usnews.com/wellness/mind/articles/2016-10-19/why-suicide-keeps-rising-for-middle-aged-men

Rollo
“Should it be a RP aware man’s attitude that he ought to help WK’s, Betas, Blue Pill men to become RP aware (however well it’s intended or accepted) or should a RP aware guy use BP men as useful tools to improve his Game and/or quality of life (outside of intrasexual contexts)?”
http://heavy.com/news/2016/10/erdogan-ceren-facebook-live-stream-suicide-video-uncensored-footage-girlfriend-dump-break-up-shotgun/

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Serious question

In Ross’s 5 stages of death,”denial’ “anger’ “bargaining” “depression” “acceptance” where does survivor syndrome fit in?

Is this type of guilt something that is unique to males?

Did Ross leave this stage out because she lacks empathy?

Am I missing something,where survivor syndrome fits in one of the five?

stuffinbox
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I guess syndrome isn’t the correct word.This is what I am talking about. From Kathleen Nader “Understanding and Assessing Guilt The emotion of guilt is associated with the realization or perception of wrongdoing (of having violated an important social, moral, or ethical rule; Chaplin, 1975). A person may feel guilty without being consciously aware of it. Conscious and unconscious guilt may act as an underlying factor in behavior, emotions and relationships. Although conscious guilt is experienced as very real, a distinction has been made between “real” (or “active”) guilt and “imagined” (or “passive”) guilt (Danieli, 1984; Lifton, 1993). Following traumatic… Read more »

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@Sentient – Brilliant. Coming around to the Platinum Life, fyi. The problem is that my behavior and my head were so out of line with having it all, and being a high value man ultimately. Seeing how far I’d fallen, how little I gave a shit about myself was quite shocking. But incredibly important, and I’m closing the gap like a motherfucker. I’m re-examining some things that I never looked at before. Like I think making money has to be hard. And how I see struggle as necessary. I had a Blue Pill, donkey-Irish work ethic, lol. Like I’m working… Read more »

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@Stuffingbox “In Ross’s 5 stages of death,”denial’ “anger’ “bargaining” “depression” “acceptance” where does survivor syndrome fit in?” It doesn’t. It’s descriptive, not prescriptive. (where have we seen that statement before?). There are too many different variables in grief including some people adapt easier and faster and some don’t. It was partially prescriptive for doctors relating to patient’s that were dying. In other words to ease the patients into the grave. To give the patient respect, because before her ideas, it was common to withhold how ill a patient was and only tell bad news to the family. Kubler-Ross thougth that… Read more »

kfg
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I am fond of “Returning to the Grass,” a plains Indian paradigm of death and dying, for which Google turns up squat all, so for the “If it’s not on the Internet it didn’t happen,” paradigm followers I guess it can’t happen.

I note that “Returning to the Sea” works the same for the waterborne.

Agent P
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Should it be a RP aware man’s attitude that he ought to help WK’s, Betas, Blue Pill men to become RP aware (however well it’s intended or accepted) or should a RP aware guy use BP men as useful tools to improve his Game and/or quality of life (outside of intrasexual contexts)? @rollo to answer your question from my perspective: WK’s? No, fuck ’em, they have taken what is presumably a moral stand or at least they think so for some reason or another. Perhaps they are playing WK game. either way most WK’s are going to run afoul of… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@SJF

Kubler-Ross insisted that the stages were “never meant to help tuck messy emotions into neat packages.”

You DO know that K-R admitted that her “five stages of grief” weren’t based on any evidence other than her keyboard jockeying, right?

Agent P
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Poof, MMSL forums shutting down soon.

having a bad day
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@Rollo

“@Agent P, where are you seeing this?”

my email too…

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From Athol… Hi there, I suspect that most of you have realized that this day is coming, so I’m not expecting surprise as much as an all purpose “oh well” now that the day is here. I’m closing the forum on 12/27/16. It’s the last day of the billing cycle for the hosting service. Per Vanilla Forums they will then purge the database wiping everything and there’s no coming back from that. We’ll be cancelling the remaining Gold Member subscriptions and refunding any overpayments greater than a month of time. I’m also going to be turning Private Messaging back on… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@Rollo

Translation: Men no longer take this forum with any degree of seriousness.

Translation: Red Pill Men no longer take this forum seriously.

It was run by women at the end…never take relationship advice from a woman…with Dr. “I forget her name” excepted.

Agent P
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Imagine that, a thread about emotionalism doesn’t get much traffic on the rational male. I guess it is oil and water

Forge the Sky
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@Agent P

Frankly the season is what’s mostly preventing me from discussing this one.

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Forge, we may as well discuss it, season or not. Athol Kay was a big part of the androsphere for some years, I pushed MMSL on various men and on various comments in blogs, because he had an action plan that generally worked. To read that he had a heart attack last March is disconcerting, because it isn’t what I would have expected to happen to the man who wrote the original Male Action Plan. I fear that going purple pill has affected his stress levels, his diet, and thus his health. This is not in the spirit of piling… Read more »

kfg
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“The men who could help him the most are the men he’s least likely to pay attention to.”

Lot of that going around these days.

Boxcar
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I have continued in the reading that you guys have suggested to me, and none of it really addresses what I have mentioned here. It seems so obvious, and I am not sure why it is being missed. I will quote from the futurist article: —————– “Bust most importantly, ‘feminists devalued the traditional areas of female expertise (raising the next generation of citizens), while attaching value only to areas of male expertise (the boardroom, the military, sexual promiscuity) and told women to go duplicate male results under the premise that this was inherently better than traditional female functions. Telling women… Read more »

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@AR

I meant that the holiday season has, by nature of its responsibilities, made me unable to comment much – not that it’s made me unwilling to say harsh things.

I’ve not followed Athol for a while. I’m sorry to hear of his heath troubles. He failed to hold frame at a crucial juncture in his ability to help other men, but this doesn’t make me resent him. Hell, I’ve lost frame too often to count when a woman wants to control shit. It’s just how it goes.

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Rollo, thank you for the response and the link. If society valued a women’s role, then we would not see women with serious aspirations waiting until it is almost impossible for them to fulfill their role (ie, have children). Those 38 year old women are having their eggs frozen because they know it is almost too late. Even with frozen eggs… if they really want children, then they need to be in an awful rush to meet Mr. Right. (And I agree that the “Mr. Right” argument is obviously absurd: You have leisure to find Mr. Right in your 20’s,… Read more »

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BTW, we disagree with a big picture thing here, but I find your observations on women’s sexual strategy to be very helpful reading. Thank you for that.

SFC Ton
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Biologically speaking a woman’s sole purpose is to get a womb full of alpha baby batter; whelp some youngin, lock down resources/ keep some alphas get alive long enough for her to repeat the process. They are baby production facilities. Hell most of them don’t realize it but that’s how nature works. Women get into the professional world to find a better selection of beta bucks and maybe have a chance of getting her jizz trap stuffed by some corporate alpha type Feminism is driven by a cadre of deranged bitches; not sure what they do, think, say etc matters… Read more »

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Re: SFC Ton – “Feminism is driven by a cadre of deranged bitches; not sure what they do, think, say etc matters all that much to run of the mill hatchet wounds, beyond giving them some operational cover”. Spit my coffee out on this one. I have to disagree though. The effect on institutions is profound. You were in the military, I believe combat infantry, yes? You had to see it in govt and the military. The equalism, the prerogatives, the shaming of masculinity institutionally. But I do agree that the average everyday basic chick is pretty much whatever about… Read more »

DiamondBack
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The first paragraph should say “…there are limitations…”, not “…THEIR are limitations…”

stuffinbox
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Vulnerability vs. holocracy

http://qz.com/849980

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I feel like a disdain for homosexuality is not necessary to be a truly masculine man. Traditionally I guess it was the norm, in the West. But you look at Ancient Rome, for example, and homosexual relationships were considered to be the ultimate form of masculinity, since it lacked any femininity, and it in fact was the norm. Of course today gay men are portrayed by the media as being very feminine and I think there’s some agenda there, or perhaps not (most gay guys I’ve met are very feminine and come with that gay-lisp, practically heralding their gayness). The… Read more »

rugby11
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TouchstoneTheClown “The exception to this, of course, is in the porn industry where gay men are portrayed as being high-testosterone, masculine men. I know not much is said about homosexual or bisexual men on The Rational Male or Red Pill but I just wanted to leave this here.” https://www.youtube.com/user/thestevenstcroix Is it even sexual or can it be emotional? http://www.stevenpressfield.com/2016/12/detach-yourself-from-everybody/ “Traditionally I guess it was the norm, in the West. But you look at Ancient Rome, for example, and homosexual relationships were considered to be the ultimate form of masculinity, since it lacked any femininity, and it in fact was the… Read more »

Les
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If emotionality is a feminine imperative and immediately reduces men to beta-status – why do women go berserk over ballad-crooning rock stars who are hyper emotional and perhaps some of the most emotionally expressive among us? There are innumerable examples – Robert Smith, Dave Gahan, Bowie, even examples from old days such as Franz Liszt. His story in particular is worth reading, women went absolutely crazy over him – a skinny, elegant man who appeared to do nothing more macho than play the piano and yet probably banged more princesses and countesses than anyone in history who did not themselves… Read more »

Sentient
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Les

Let me introduce you to the Alpha Triad – dynamic, passionate and authentic traits on display. This is what women find attractive, what Alpha is reduced down to… spanning the distance from sensitive frail musician to musclebound biker bully… and points in between like the Eagle Scout church deacon…

Lex
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@Rollo Got it. Great post. They demonstrate qualities of tribal leader. It also takes a certain fearlessness to dress in a way that might earn you a beating (or at least it did in the 80’s) – it’s peacocking. Also explains why I got so much more tail in my starving artist days. One advantage of being broke, you are SURE they are not after you for your money.. nowadays I can never be 100% sure, it’s a fucking drag even if my wallet is watertight. @Sentient. Yes. Is this “Alpha Triad” a recognized system from a specific book? Interesting… Read more »

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Lex

Yes you can make a long list… The purpose is to make the shortest list… What is consistent across the most scenarios?

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@Sentient – very interesting question! Perhaps ultimately only answerable by aggregating a large amount of tested infield research?
Why make the shortest list? To shortcut your path to honing your strengths and maximizing your options, presumably. I also wonder if there is a “one size fits all” definition of Alpha and I think it partly also depends what type of chick you are going for. Females will have archetypes; do you think that the girl who goes for the dandy will still bang the commando if the opportunity presents itself (despite verbalizing “not my type”)?

Sentient
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Your questions are the answer… Reduce to the irreducible.

SJF
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Sentients short list is an exhortation to move more toward Alpha and not debate the nuances of Alpha. Some guys just can’t manage two standard deviations above the mean of Alpha. That is not the issue. Move more toward that goal. The goal is toward being Alpha. To not debate the issue like the feminine imperative does and social conventions do. Social strategy is to stifle you. Your goal is not to stifle masculine Alpha. “one size fits all” definition of Alpha and I think it partly also depends what type of chick you are going for. Females will have… Read more »

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[…] They’re taught that strength is weakness and weakness is strength, and that vulnerability and emotionalism makes them whole […]

Sri
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Fact is — the female ego is ENORMOUS. Most of it is contained in the energy of their feeling.

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