She’s Unhaapppy,…

controlling-parent

Do women seem more or less happy to you? It’s kind of hard to quantify/qualify what happiness means to men, but when it comes to women’s state of happiness or contentment I think most guys have a tendency to expect women’s experience of happiness to be measured on a similar scale to their own. From a strictly evo-psych / evo-bio perspective it’s important that any metric of happiness between the sexes be measured by first considering each’s innate psychological firmware and what contributes to men and women feeling a degree of happiness.

Because men and women rate their experiences differently per their own interpretations of what contribute to it  happiness becomes a really subjective evaluation. As you might guess, what makes for a happy woman is not always what makes for a happy man. It’s a similar contrast to men and women’s differing concepts of love. Men tend to approach love from an idealistic perspective, and women base their emotional investments on opportunistic contexts. We’re conditioned from an early age to believe men and women share a mutual concept of love thanks to an ever-present presumption of egalitarian equalism between males and females, and this is where a lot of intersexual problems find their root.

Likewise, our egalitarian presumptions also condition men and women to believe that we share mutual concepts of what should and shouldn’t make either sex happy in a long term sense. In this case it is women who are largely misled by the equalist narrative. For more than sixty years women have been conditioned to believe they can meet their own idealistic goal of ‘having it all’ if they can only “empower” themselves into being Strong Independent Women®. Increasingly women are coming to the conclusion that this pro-woman life plan has been nothing but feel-good advertising, and now, after having invested their most productive years in this narrative they find that they are largely unhappy with the results its brought into their lives.

You see, equalism (the religion of feminism) would have women believe that what makes men happy must necessarily be what makes women happy – or would make them happy in the long term if only the “patriarchy” would allow women the same opportunities to experience it. If we are all blank-slate equals, what makes women and men happy must be mutually shared, thus men are encouraged to be women and craft their identities around feminine-primacy, but also, women must become men and craft their personas around the masculine ideals that bring men so much power, and by way of it happiness.

Yet in our modern western(izing) world we find that the equalist effort to socially engineer androgyny into society has had the opposite effect in engendering happiness in women. Article after article and study after study show that women’s perceived happiness is at an all-time low since researchers have been collecting data on it. Women are living longer lives and at no point in history have they enjoyed more access to the means of more success than in the now. Mainstream feminine-primacy sees that more women are college educated than men, while men fill our prisons at 12 times the rate of women, yet for all of this women express feeling less satisfied with the quality of, and happiness in, their lives.

American women are wealthier, healthier and better educated than they were 30 years ago. They’re more likely to work outside the home, and more likely to earn salaries comparable to men’s when they do. They can leave abusive marriages and sue sexist employers. They enjoy unprecedented control over their own fertility. On some fronts — graduation rates, life expectancy and even job security — men look increasingly like the second sex.

But all the achievements of the feminist era may have delivered women to greater unhappiness. In the 1960s, when Betty Friedan diagnosed her fellow wives and daughters as the victims of “the problem with no name,” American women reported themselves happier, on average, than did men. Today, that gender gap has reversed. Male happiness has inched up, and female happiness has dropped. In postfeminist America, men are happier than women.

And, as would be expected, women’s dissatisfaction with their lives is always traced back to uncooperative men and their reluctancy to make feminism the roaring success they just know it could be if men would simply accept their diminishing importance and superfluousness. What Today’s Woman has been sold is that the careerism, status seeking and ambitiousness that’s driven men to their sense of happiness-through-accomplishment (with all the prerequisite sacrifices needed to get there) is necessarily the same path to women’s sense of happiness and fulfillment.

But men and women are in fact different, and while the social experiment that is equalism continues to destroy lives by insisting they aren’t, women are coming to find (often too late in life to correct) that happiness for themselves comes as a result of satisfying needs that are innate to their nature as a female. As such, equalism and feminism fluidly redefine what “should be” happiness for men and women – men should always find fulfillment in making women happy in an ‘equalist’ utopia – yet that contentment for women will always be elusive and thus, a need to make men the culprits in that unending oppression of happiness comes into play.

Worst Case Scenario

Virtually every woman I’ve ever come into contact with in my lifetime shared a common mindset – each one subscribes to what I call the ‘worst case scenario’ mindset. I expect this from a mother or matronly relative, maybe even an overprotective sister, but to some degree all (and yes I mean all) women share a sense of risk aversion. That may not be in all aspects of a woman’s life, and certainly there are instances where this can be overridden – usually ones that imply an optimized Hypergamous opportunity – but I find that it’s part of women’s psychological firmware to obsessively want to mitigate risk of loss. Whether that’s risk of injury or resources or something that has a potential for providing her with security, the innate female subroutine is to play things safe.

In an age of mass media and instantaneous communication (women’s domain) this risk aversion gets combined with women’s primary, evolutionarily derived, need for a sustainable long term security and an existence-level sense of doubt. I’ve covered in prior posts about how Hypergamy is rooted in doubt and demands a constant reverifying of its being optimized in a man or a man with whom a woman has the potential of becoming intimate with. What results from this root level doubt and a hindbrain need for security is a continual preoccupation with the Worst Case Scenario.

Every possibility for the worst is thought through, contemplated and anticipated by women. There are very few women known for their genuine optimism or faith in a better outcome than what could possibly be the worst case. Yes, there are women who are saccharine motivational speakers, women’s ministry leaders and “make it a great day” believers in the magic powers of positivity, but even when it is genuine it comes as the result of wanting to mitigate the risks of the worst case scenario for their own (or women’s) lives.

As I wrote in Imagination, a man’s best tool in his Game toolbox is a woman’s imagination. That may be well for Game, but it also comes with the drawback of women’s imaginings of the worst possible thing that could ever happen. Throw women’s evolved sense of solipsism into this mix and it’s the worst possible thing that could happen, to her. On one hand, Dread is useful because of this innately female dynamic, but when you must contend with what amounts to a never ending battery of ‘what if’ doubts and reassurances then you begin to see the downside of that imagination. You begin to understand why women default to blaming men for not providing them with a sustainable happiness.

Women, being the life-bearing, nurture-giving sex with the most to lose in their investment in selecting a mate and gestating a child, have evolved to seek a sustainable security above all else – a security that guarantees her individuated happiness. That conventional, evolved sense of wellbeing used to be dependent upon the provisioning and the excitement that could only be provided by men. This is a subconscious expectation of women. Even women who subscribe to sexual fluidity often seek a similar security from their masculinized dominant partner.

Social Security

As a result of our equalist social narrative, women have been conditioned to believe that they can find this security and happiness in some untapped well they have hidden in their psyche if only they can be Strong and Independent enough to access it. In prior essays I’ve made the case that the ultimate goal of our feminine-primary social order has been to facilitate women’s optimizing Hypergamy by essentially outlawing men’s influence on that process. Every gender-based law that’s come into being since the time of the Sexual Revolution; from sexual consent, to what constitutes sexual harassment, to father’s (lack of) rights, to divorce settlement has been motivated by this deep seated female need for an enduring security. This was a security unique to men, but in an ‘equalist’ paradigm it is no longer required of, nor is it expected to be found in, men.

Yet for all of this handwringing, for all of the great efforts needed to legislate men’s direct or indirect financing of this security, and despite every social dispensation intended to empower women to provide this soul-gnawing need for security, women are still not happy.

The masterful Pook once said that the surest way to make a woman unhappy is to give them everything they want. I recently got into, yet again, another debate about the merits or non-merits of Choreplay and whether the idea of women getting hot for guys who do dishes was really a thing,…or not. This time the spin is that women will cheat on their husbands if they don’t do more chores.

As I was requoting myself for this debate I realized how long the Choreplay dilemma has been playing out – the first time I took it on was 2008. Men are deductive problem solvers. We want to make women happy as a means to getting sex, keeping the peace, sustaining intimacy, security, and just making a woman happy. The problem with that is that nothing a man can do will make a woman happy in the long term. In fact, just the whack-a-mole attempt to intentionally try to make a woman happy is itself a display women read as coming from a man who Just Doesn’t Get It.

The majority of men (Betas) would like nothing more than to sustain a woman’s happiness. They’re taught that relationship are always ‘hard work’ and his work will ultimately never be good enough. Even the most dutiful Beta can’t make a woman happy, but their efforts become a process of him negotiating for a woman’s desire. Whether that’s earning the ‘happiness’ of his mother, his sister, his female co-worker or his wife, the effect is the same.

We’ve made women’s happiness a litmus test for how successful a man or his relationships are. The common refrain of a woman leaving a man due to her being “unhaaaaaapy” is almost a cliché in the manosphere now. But if it’s a cliché it’s because this is the go-to reasoning we’ve heard from pop-psychologists, marriage counselors and mommy bloggers for the 70%+ of divorces initiated by women. We are expected to put a premium on women’s sustained happiness in a feminine-primary social order. Women’s happiness has become the prime directive and the metric for a relationship’s success. Any concern for men’s happiness is either a sign of his weakness or his problematic misogyny.

From Perfecting the Fantasy:

Here’s a secret – there’s no such thing as contentment.

Being content implies that life is static; it’s not, and to be honest, how boring would that be anyway? Life consists of varying states of discontent: why else would you bother doing anything? But the good news is that it’s more fun and more beneficial to manage discontent than to endure contentment (which you can’t anyway since it’s transitory at best). The trick is to understand that there are 2 kinds of discontent – creative and destructive discontent. What you choose to do with that discontent makes all the difference in the world. You will only get what you’ve gotten if you keep doing what you’ve done. Don’t allow yourself to fall back into old destructive habits of dealing with discontent. Don’t bother with anti-depressants and self-help books when a good hard workout at the gym would serve you better.

The truth is I’m always discontent, but constructively so. The minute you can look yourself in the mirror and be happy with what you see you’re sunk. You can always improve, even after achieving things that were once very important and difficult to attain. Happiness is a state of being, it’s in the ‘doing’ not the ‘having done.’ It’s not about endlessly chasing your tail, it’s about being better than you were the day before.

I agree with Gorilla Patriot, women’s default is for unhappiness, but I’d qualify this by saying it’s more of a predisposition of discontent. That is to say there is no real neutral disposition for a woman. Even in a state of indifference, a woman’s conditioned expectation from men will always originate from a preconception of disappointment. The worst case scenario is what is subconsciously planned for to the point that, even a man whom a woman loves and trusts, a woman’s first expectation from him is failure.

A lot of this comes from a lifetime of having male role models portrayed as default failures, social ignoramuses or just ridiculous because of their maleness. Women have had an endless education that only their unique femaleness can solve men’s problems of maleness, and they solve it in spite of themselves. Women are quite literally taught to expect failure, discontentment and unhappiness from men from a very early age.

The great tragedy of this ‘education’ is that it teaches women to empower themselves to find some life satisfaction as a result of their independence from men, but yet they can’t get around the want to find happiness with men. This teaching seeks to create some equalist semblance of happiness based on what men define for themselves as happiness.

They’re taught that a real enduring security is somehow possible in an intrinsically unsafe and chaotic world. So they limit men, they mandate laws and social mores to mitigate the risks that men, in their idealism, would naturally be drawn to take. They keep the kids safe, tell them to walk on one side of the sidewalk, tell them not to jump on the bed, tell them not to ride a bike without a helmet and knee and arm pads, and to prepare for the most damaging possibility imaginable. And men, who’ve always been bigger, more dangerous children to them, must comply with this risk aversion by law or by shame.

Women are unhappy because they expect unhappiness. They’ve been taught that the security they sought in men was a weakness; one they need to compensate for. They were conditioned to feel shame for that need, that masculine comfort, even when they know security is never going to be guaranteed in the best of possible cases. They’re unhappy because they were taught that men’s happiness is better than women’s happiness and that’s the path they ought to follow no matter the sacrifice, no matter the damage to the family. They were taught that feminist pride and equalist hubris were a better substitute for a family – they believed the lie that they would just be ‘happy captives’.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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theasdgamer
5 years ago

@HABD, @YaReally, @Sentient looks v. charm I have a buddy who is convinced that a man’s looks generate real desire in a woman and he maintains that charm and status don’t. He thinks that women use a man’s status to raise their own because of bragging rights rather than there being authentic desire. This guy thinks that age kills the possibility of a woman wanting a man because of one of his relatives, who no longer can get young women. PUA theory holds that the reason the old (>60) natural can no longer get young women is because he believes… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” . . . like it’s on us to transcend all her mental defects *for* her.” If women’s sexual strategy were a mental defect, you wouldn’t be here. Do you go around telling salmon, seahorses and bears that they’re doing it all wrong because they have a mental defect? You can’t sprint for shit. Do you consider bipedealism a physical defect? You can’t fly at all. Do you consider your weight and lack of wings a physical defect? Your claws are vestigial and nearly useless, so you must employ tools to gather and prepare your food. Do you consider that… Read more »

Joe K
Joe K
5 years ago

@KFG What I omitted in my comment, because I assume it’s self evident to everyone reading this blog – that a woman’s LTR/marriage goal-orientation (which is to say, their sexual strategy – even the 5-minutes-of-Alpha guy they try with all their might to pin down if possible) is fundamentally marred by deceit and dishonesty. Do we consider honesty to be a healthy trait in interpersonal relationships? Yes, we almost always do. Do we consider deceit to be an unhealthy (defective) trait in interpersonal relationships? Yes, we almost always do. Do salmon, seahorses and bears have overt linguistic languages with which… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago
Reply to  Joe K
Softek
Softek
5 years ago

@ Black Pill:

Awesome job man. Was a joy reading that FR, you definitely did a great job of capturing all the important details. Great to see someone taking the advice here and running with it. Keep it up.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“Do salmon, seahorses and bears have overt linguistic languages with which they actively seek to deceive one another?”

All conflict of interest involves deceit. Salmon are particularly deceitful, as they are cannibals.

“I consider anything that is primarily sought via deceit, manipulation, another’s narcissistic agenda at my expense – to be ‘defective’.”

Contrariwise, you are ‘defective’ to everything else. You would be dead without deceit.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

The minute she shifts to exclusive-relationship-posturing, I know the con has just begun. That’s my point. And yes, I consider anything that is primarily sought via deceit, manipulation, another’s narcissistic agenda at my expense – to be ‘defective’.

Yeah, she has ovaries, so she deceives…defective…she bleeds for seven days and doesn’t die…defective…lacks a dick…defective….lacks hypertrophous muscles…defective…lacks balls…defective…isn’t as smart…defective…is more prone to STDs…defective

Biology is fucking defective.

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Joe K

Solipsism solves her dishonesty “problem”…

It really is a different system all together Joe…

Cats are not dogs… Enjoy the pussy… Meow!

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

Q: Why do dogs have a natural antipathy to cats?
A: Because dogs think cats are defective dogs.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Softek “Great to see someone taking the advice here and running with it.” Just to bust your balls a bit. Did you notice how he just went out and did it because he really wanted to get it done? We’ve seen you do that the last six months with your job/profession. And you’ve done it with atleticism and diet. So, you know the feeling of getting agency. When you want to. When you are not held back by your fears. Imagine how that desire and persistence and practice could translate in sexual strategy game. That’s not an indictment of your… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

@YaReally – thanks. Just going through the big comment on the previous thread now – absolutely what you say about training my brain to treat the club interaction the same as the online date interaction. @Scray & @theasdgamer – Re STDs – Way back in the day when I had my very first SNL (mostly by fluke), I freaked out a bit about STDs (despite using condoms) and did a HUGE amount of research, right down to reading a lot of academic papers about prevalence and transmission and stuff like that. The bottom line came out to pretty much what… Read more »

Softek
Softek
5 years ago

@ SJF Appreciate the feedback. You’re 100% right. I still have some serious mental block as far as sexual agency goes. It does translate to business too, as I still am working on dealing with customers and charging more for my services when appropriate, as I tend to not value myself and am always tempted to do extra work for free without mentioning anything, and that’s slaughtering me financially. Similar to going out and Gaming, I also need to generate more business. I can play my ass off but because playing out requires me to get out of my comfort… Read more »

Softek
Softek
5 years ago

@ SJF Disregarding my last comment: “Imagine how that desire and persistence and practice could translate in sexual strategy game.” This. I read an example yesterday of going on a road trip. You feel great when the car’s moving, and you don’t even think about it. You’re just enjoying everything along the way. When the car stops, you panic. Wondering what’s wrong. Now all of a sudden everything feels fucked up. The only solution is to just keep moving. Like yesterday I just rolled up a cigarette and called a customer even though I was anxious as hell and didn’t… Read more »

XD
XD
5 years ago

Rollo Tomassi laid out the central conflict already. For one genders reproductive strategy to win, the other’s MUST lose. There are no contracts between males and females in this regard. Her directive is to have the best brood of kids possible. Yours is to have as many as possible. You can paper over that gap with game, money, social pressure and time, but sooner or later someone is going to have to fold. Nowadays it’s usually the man who surrenders his directive for the female’s. The notion of a man and woman being happy together and enjoying life with no… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

@ XD

” You can paper over that gap with game, money, social pressure and time, but sooner or later someone is going to have to fold. Nowadays it’s usually the man who surrenders his directive for the female’s.

The notion of a man and woman being happy together and enjoying life with no strings attached in either direction sounds like a simple and cute idea- but it’s a Disney fantasy. People in both genders suffer mightily because they don’t understand that basic fact.”

XD, is this always absolutely the case?

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

….that’s funny. The emoji popped in. the question was directed at X D

XD
XD
5 years ago

Absolute in every case? No . But the majority of male /female interactions? Absogoddamnlutely. On a primal level every BluePill man realizes he’s leasing access to sex. Even the hippies living out of the VW by the beach are subject to that law of human behavior. Hippy dude smokes tree , and his girl is with hippie dude for the drugs. I’m no different. I like women because they’re pretty and I like sex. They’re with me because they like muscular dudes who tell them “No” and fuck them silly. No fairy tales in that,which is just the way I… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

@redlight

Never heard of this Mark Manson guy.
Would not give Erica Awakening anything, not even spare change, because those crazy eyes.
Thanks for link.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

This man is most likely happy today.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2016/11/19/joe-thomas-55-years-old-south-carolina-state/94128238/

“Happy life, happy wife”.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@X D Your comments are dripping with contempt. If one has red pill awareness, it is obvious that the FI Hivemind is winning in the fishbowl that has a lot of Betas swimming in in. That’s red pill 101. So what’s the problem here? How does being red pill, not having fear if the FI and working toward your individual goals present a problem for you personally. Is this another complaint about the damn Pareto principle/distribution. What if others can change their reality with agency via red pill awareness and game to get real agency. And as “happy” as they… Read more »

Colbert
Colbert
5 years ago

Perception and objective/subjective reality – be your own hero

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIqbVyFCuDw&w=560&h=315%5D

Great video by Julien.

hank holiday
hank holiday
5 years ago

@yareally, culum, forge, othergrain, habd, pua store, asian is there. open on gift cards…how do you pick one? asian is super into me, as they always seem to be, but this one is very young (prolly 15-16) and very unattractive. guy is sampling with his hot sauce. very good. apparently he died and went to heaven. dead for something like 30min. but came back. I can see why. For a fifty year old black chick, his wife was damn fine. like, where do these black milfs hang out. lol. suggestions blax? wandered around. black girl I run into sometimes at… Read more »

Softek
Softek
5 years ago

@ Colbert Thanks for sharing that. Just watched it. Very true. It’s such a simple concept. But it takes effort to really change your perspective. Daily, just like working out or anything else. I’ll restate my suggestion for everyone: keep a journal of only positive experiences. Try to write in it every single day. At least one thing. By doing this, you’re re-training yourself to look for positive experiences. And you get better at it as time goes on. You also will have, after some time, a resource for feeling good and getting yourself back in the zone. Because ONLY… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
5 years ago

@yareally @culum @othergrain @forge @habd more FR lol okay other girl lol theres this indian girl that works at this same place. She was alone waiting to go. So I did the whole costume party open…you know, trying to figure out where I knew her from. “Well everyone says I look like Mia Khalifa.” I just kinda started at her like oooohkay. She laughed. I said “not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing.” Sat down next to her, Ran through usual. Did rest of costume party, then piercing girl. Piercing girl very good for reaction… Read more »

Joe K
Joe K
5 years ago

Man, I didn’t even fuck a girl tonight…but I had a brush with a prospective “5 minutes of Alpha” experience, and I turned it down on account of conscience. Why do I have to be so goddamn ethical? I dunno, how I was raised or something…. I’m in a conservative EE country and went out to a bar after dinner where there was an interactive activity as entertainment for the evening. I ended up being invited to a table of 4 early 30-somethings and particularly interacting with this one lovely, raven-esque conservative girl who was drinking water while her 3… Read more »

Colbert
Colbert
5 years ago

@Softek

I actually bought a red and black binder for that purpose some time back. Thanks for that reminder to start journaling. That’s a really good idea and is something I need to start doing.

BTW, I’m at work and I can’t post it now, but that other video by Julien that YaReally posted and referred to on the previous thread was really good too. Really eye opening video. It’s worth re-posting. I’ll try to post it later when/if I get the chance (I’m behind on keeping up with all of the comments – lol).

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@Sentient from the last thread… Yeah your explanation is to me still not accounting for latency, decay and re-uptake of the back in the frame after 20 years Alpha… If it is just … the constant treadmill like repetition of hypergamous triggering in real time… you would have no Alpha Widows, spanning decades long absences… you would have to retrigger attraction by all the switch flipping scale sliding actions… and anyone who has ever had and old GF who still longs for them knows, you can just start right where things left off… there is what you call “burn in”… Read more »

Joe K
Joe K
5 years ago

I am completely in agreement with everything commenter “XD” has written in this thread. With the exception of Roissy/Heartiste, it seems all the RP authors are grasping for rays of sunshine by fomenting plausibly explainable “neutral” rationales for why women do all the evil shit that they do (read: narcissistic shit to their benefit at your palpable expense). C’mon, fellas. Can we cut the bullshit already. Do we really need to dress up psychopathic narcissism and willfully-deceptive Macchiavellianism as something that ‘they just can’t help, because biology?’ give me a fuckin break. you are reaching for a purple pill that… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“Do we really need to dress up psychopathic narcissism and willfully-deceptive Macchiavellianism as something that ‘they just can’t help, because biology?’ ” Well ya’ll do us a favor and go straighten them out for us. Much appreciated. “you are reaching for a purple pill that doesn’t exist.” Because we all cry ourselves to sleep at night wishing we could find our psychopathic dream girl, just like in those Disney movies. Look in the mirror; you’re the one gagging on the pill who can’t accept that they’re like that. Then go find a high school level book on basic zoology and… Read more »

Black Pill
Black Pill
5 years ago

@softek “My default thinking is to read a FR like Black Pill’s and think, “I’m way too passive to ever do anything like that,” and while I’m happy for him and genuinely do think it’s awesome and want to see him succeed, I don’t feel like the same thing is possible for me because I’m so passive and have so much social anxiety.” I don’t know your backstory, but I can relate. I used to be fucking passive, it was maybe the defining facet of my character. In fact the first five girls I slept with basically opened and closed… Read more »

anon
anon
5 years ago

““Do we really need to dress up psychopathic narcissism and willfully-deceptive Macchiavellianism as something that ‘they just can’t help, because biology?’ ”

I’m reminded of a sketch I saw a while back.
Three fish, the largest had his mouth open and was about to devour the middle-sized fish, and the middle-sized fish was about to devour the smallest fish. Over their heads, their internal monologue.
The largest was thinking: “the world is just”
The medium sized fish was thinking: “Sometimes the world is just”
And the smallest fish was thinking: “the world is not just”

anon
anon
5 years ago

TLDR version: Everyone has a cognitive dissonance that fits their own reality.

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago

Interesting read
http://douglassmith.info/books/rasputin/

Colbert
Colbert
5 years ago
Joe K
Joe K
5 years ago

@kfg “find our psychopathic dream girl, just like in those Disney movies” I must have missed that Disney movie. The ones I saw years ago had protagonists that were quite the opposite. That was kind of my point, you see. “you’re the one gagging on the pill” I’m writing the truth of my experience. You are the one who’s all defensive here. What are you defending, exactly? You’re the one conflating human behavior with the behavior of fish and mammals. I mean, really? LOL. Women are female human beings, but they are human beings. Human beings have agency. Human beings… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“I must have missed that Disney movie. The ones I saw years ago had protagonists that were quite the opposite. That was kind of my point, you see.” Yes, that was quite my point. “You’re the one conflating human behavior with the behavior of fish and mammals. I mean, really?” No. Comparing. Because they are comparable. Because we are animals. Great apes to be more precise. Living in bands and giving live birth necessitates certain behaviours. If we didn’t live in bands, then women would retire to a den, alone, the male either wandering off on his own or being… Read more »

Joe K
Joe K
5 years ago

“Nonsense. I affirm that they direct their agency to their own benefit, while you are upset that they don’t direct it to your benefit.” So in your worldview, a woman’s agency is only actualized via deception. Why, then, would you ever have any kind of relationship with any woman? Why would you, KFG, ever exchange a single spoken word if her use of language is just a form of warfare? What I refuse to accept from a woman is described very simply this way – if she deceives me, attempting to dishonestly extract benefit from me at my expense, she’s… Read more »

anon
anon
5 years ago

There was a behavioral study from about six years back.
They placed male bonobos and male chimpanzees in situations where the most dominant would obtain the most food.
Testosterone increased in the chimps because they perceived the event as a dominance contest.
By contrast, cortisol increased in the bonobos, because they viewed it as a source of stress.

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago
kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“Why, then, would you ever have any kind of relationship with any woman?” Because I am biologically driven to do so. In many animals males and females only associate with each other to get eggs fertilized. And then only because biological drives impel them to do so? Why do you think you are here talking about women in the first place? Without the drive you wouldn’t give a fuck about fucking or women in general. Cut your nuts off and you will cease to do so. The drive will disappear with the biological mechanism. It’s not about you. “It” is… Read more »

GDeeJay
GDeeJay
5 years ago

@ Joe K

I am enjoying the spritua/rational vs animal debate. Like you, I find myself too ‘ethical’ for some of the methods proposed, but not the the ideas. This site is, of course, The ‘Rational’ Male, and ‘rational’ is a stronger word than ‘rationalizing’.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“I find myself too ‘ethical’ for some of the methods proposed . . .”

Ethics, at their core, are a utilitarian tool, and like all tools they are formed to the task. The task of men and women are different, hence their ethics are different.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Accidentally cross posted a shit test comment for Joe in the Deep Conversion thread.

https://therationalmale.com/2016/11/11/deep-conversion/comment-page-7/#comment-179246

anon
anon
5 years ago

Hm.
“What inherently manipulative techniques can I use to score ‘genuine desire to please me?”

You mean just any women?

“Heck no! 9s and 10s only…I have standards an expect a high burden of performance.”

Then you too will have to live up to a burden of performance.

“That’s so manipulative!”

Joe K
Joe K
5 years ago

Aha. And there it is. Taking responsibility for being one’s best natural self in taking action and choosing mindsets, in order to get an even better result – and therein, assuming a burden of performance (except, only for a ONS/SNL…Ha! And never lying about anything either. I know – you hate that we can do this.) – is considered ‘manipulative’. Or more likely, you OMG tradcons just get angry/jealous at the fact that younger guys can get no-strings-attached sex *even if* we choose to go about it ethically and honestly. C’mon – you’re writing like a butthurt woman – now… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” . . . you OMG tradcons . . .you’re writing like a butthurt woman . . . ”

To whom are you speaking? I am neither an OMG nor a tradcon, and anon is a woman.

anon
anon
5 years ago

Joe, you’re asking YaReally for tips on game.
You understand what ‘game’ is?
No one cares if you use game. No one cares is you get laid or by whom…you are the one asserting that you want (high value) women to want you only for your awesome inherent selfie.

anon
anon
5 years ago

“anon is a woman”

Yep.

Joe K
Joe K
5 years ago

@KFG – last comment not directed at you. Appreciated the debate though. Was , only one point was directed @anon.

Gonna head out for the night now. Enjoy!

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago
Reply to  Joe K
anon
anon
5 years ago

Bon fortuna!

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@Blaximus:

CMQ on moving to NYC:

“This surprised me, but lo and behold at the many restaurants, clubs, lounges and bars I’ve been to, I’ve noticed that people are actually ENGAGED with each other and in the moment. Without a doubt this contributes to the magic and energy of NYC.

In Los Angeles it wouldn’t be a shock to see an entire table of girls all on their phones while the guy dropping thousands on the bottles looked like he was ready to commit suicide.”

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

habd HABD if that’s true, then there needs to be a biochemical mech to ‘test’ for hypergamous satisfaction (in addition to the basic shit test)… this test will be a limbic system subroutine (emotion)… and will need to be able to reference a prior situ (her hypergamous ‘best’) for comparison… that ‘burn in’ sets the base of comparison… and that HAS to be wired into her ‘hypergamy’ construct (otherwise she could make a ‘mistake’ bc she would have no frame of reference)… and that presents as a shit test towards the new guy… where she evaluates his response (how else… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
5 years ago

Found some gems from my old FRs. May 25th Got my food, as I headed back saw a lone guy at a table. Asked him about his drink. Talked for a min or two, the sat down to talk to him. I feel like that’s the time needed to be friendly enough you can sit next to someone. I did the same months ago with the two girls at the bookstore — talked ofr a min or two, then sat right next to the prettier one. May 28th Ding ding ding, go in. Walked like I was going to the… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago
Reply to  Rollo Tomassi

Many of the best components of humanity are amoral.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G9rTniQFtpE

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
5 years ago

Anyone getting sorted to Blue Pill Provider bullshit could just as easily be dealing with some woman who’s tired of getting perforated by alpha dick and is genuinely worried for “her” future. Reinforce your terms of engagement, AKA Frame.

If you don’t want to be treated like a sucker, don’t LOOK like one. And when they try to shoehorn you INTO the sucker bracket, GTFO and aim younger.

The younger ones aren’t as desperate for Petey Provider.

ollieoxenfree1
5 years ago

We, in the manosphere shouldn’t be in the habit of telling women how unhappy they are or implying we have the answers to correct their unhappy state. Essays such as this will be used by feminist to justify their philosophical hatred of men. “Here we go. They’re now telling us how unhappy we are. No doubt, if we would only, cook, clean and serve them, we’ll be happy again!” I subscribe to the notion of equality between the sexes. But I realise women don’t want real equality. As Bill Burr said, women want to treat the idea like a buffet.… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
5 years ago

@rugby11

cosign.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“I subscribe to the notion of equality between the sexes.”

Prepare to be disappointed in their persistent refusal to act as if they were.

Luciano
5 years ago

@all

Lately RSD has been referencing TRM book and Hypergamy, game is about to get crazy again

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago
Reply to  Luciano

By far one of the most wonderful story’s yet written.
http://wp.me/p4tvpM-1NCE

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

Lol…..

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

Progression.

hank holiday
hank holiday
5 years ago

@yareally @culum @forge @habd @pua Okay some reflection on yesterdays FR (and really a lot of the stuff I have been doing recently) Going off cold approach is a low percent play ofc, but it also requires a lot more “punch” for lack of a better word. I have to have more weight to just drag girls away from what they are currently doing. I have been doing a lot of new stuff so there is that — opening girls who are studying in a busy cafe and sitting down next to the girl eating listening to music on her… Read more »

Zhu Wunang
Zhu Wunang
5 years ago

@Pellaeon
If you don’t have time to write up a full break down, you can always just not down a few notes.
Good point. I have been keeping notes, but not counting that at a “real” FR because I haven’t been posting them in public (e.g., here). I’m counting those now.

Luciano
5 years ago

@Rollo

Nothing in depth, RSD Luke mention is his Social Circle Blueprint product that Tyler was a fan of your book, and 56 seconds Luke talks about Hypergamy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIo0hLKDutE

RSD Todds next product is titled Women and it’s him breaking down the way they think. I would’ve never predicted this 10 years ago, but I think that it’s interesting that it is all being broken down and spoon fed to my generation (18-30) by the older guys. But it all becomes obvious with enough field experience.

hank holiday
hank holiday
5 years ago

@yareally @pua okay, just looked up myself in the yareally archives and made a bunch of quick notes In general for daygame I can sexualize by saying she is sexy, or something about her is sexy push more into qualification, then use “you and I would never get along” routine qualify more…but problem is lack of time and there starts to get more pressure right at the time I would qualify An oldschool move was when they lol make fun of their laugh or tell them their nose crinkles up when they laugh etc, it usually gets them to laugh… Read more »

Joe K
Joe K
5 years ago

@Rollo

OK. You are a step ahead of me on ‘what the debate boils down to’. Fair enough.

@Yollo

“Anyone getting sorted to Blue Pill Provider bullshit…..when they try to shoehorn you INTO the sucker bracket, GTFO and aim younger”

In America, absolutely. Where I am temporarily ‘living’ in EE, absolutely not. It’s K-selection here. Most recently (within the past 2 weeks, actually), I ghosted a chick who started pulling that shit on me, complete with gaslighting tactics and blatant dishonesty. ‘Aim younger?’ She’s 18.

hank holiday
hank holiday
5 years ago

I’ll go over all that stuff a bit more, process it, polish it, and work out the game plan for next time I go out, but its worth noting how much my daygame shit has improved.Its a very significant change from June/July. Staying in set longer, going for pull, getting much bigger reactions from girls. Get instant and very obvious attraction from most girls I open right off the bat now.

othergrain
othergrain
5 years ago

ASD, regarding your three way date…I called this last week that he wouldn’t get the lay. You gamed her for YOU, not as a wing for your buddy… “I was an observer for my buddy when he was on a date. I made the girl “a little uncomfortable” because I was touching her a lot.” I get uncomfortable when the fly on the wall starts crawling in my arm too. “Heard this through my buddy who was on a date with her and invited me along to observe her. Well, she was very abrasive and was directing barbs my way… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
5 years ago

@ASD, like do you NOT see how what you did was counterproductive to your friend getting laid lol?

@paellon (I think)

Regarding field reports, see below for the recent julien video which covers their importance. (It’s been covered in countless videos previously but this one is nice in that it’s dedicated to only this rather than finding the right timestamp)

Even if you don’t get feedback from others, just reflecting on your nights out is important, and writing it down is a great way to review an entire night in a nice orderly way.

https://youtu.be/AMxyqi35fnE

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago
Reply to  othergrain

Trying to understand women is pointless. Women understand women and they can’t stand each other.

Rest we’ll everyone

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@grain Thank you for your useful comments. You assume incorrectly that I was supposed to merely observe. I bring the party with me wherever I go. (I was gaming my wife’s female boss, quite subtly, to give my wife some more leverage. I complimented the boss on nice things she had done for people and kino’d the boss briefly a couple of times. She kino’d me back a few times. The boss is genuinely a sweet lady, frequently putting in lots of energy for other people…helping them work on their houses for free…getting food for people at her table even… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

You demonstrated to her, twice, that he is NOT her best option. Idk how your buddy didn’t see this

The girl texted my buddy all day after they went on another date from which I absented myself. He had a shot.

He asked the girl what she thought about me and told her that I had asked for her number which wasn’t true. She thought that I was too old. No shit, what else was she going to say, lol.

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago
mersonia
5 years ago

@Rugby11
“Trying to understand women is pointless. Women understand women and they can’t stand each other.”

Nah ….but use your life how you want to

cattaro
cattaro
5 years ago

Question for you from USA. Rollo had told many times that he do not generaly talk about politic on this blog. Do you think that Trump president win have something in subconcius red pill gut reaction among american man, or he just recognise popular wave, and made a great surf on it? Never before you can see so many SJW, women in general, feminist media buthurt from “normal’ change ona USA 1. position. Before it was a normal thing, one goes somebody else coming. Is it Trump a system bug?

IamtheKnight
IamtheKnight
5 years ago

Great article – keep up the good work

IAS
IAS
5 years ago

@YaReally / PUAs: Do you have specific advice for “gaming” in noisy subway scenarios? In my commute I started making an open occasionally, at least when it is not too crowded, but it is still noisy when the train is between stops (I guess like a club). I can post FRs, but I haven’t pushed much, just getting more used to opening. I’ve done only contextual ones. I had a good one I FR’d a while back on a 4-set with tattoos, but there I had massive approach invite and a built-in (real) time constraint as I was getting out… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
5 years ago

@Anonymous Reader “Or to put it another way, a hypothetical married James doesn’t have to be an ultimate Total Alpha D00D 24/7 to Joan, he just has to be more Alpha and more “present” than the men in her past. Like the old joke about the bear; “I don’t have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun YOU!”.” Which brings us to 2016, where that near-virgin Joan with a smartphone and internet has UNLIMITED options coming at her from all angles 24/7, and those options are putting their best profile forward…their Facebook/OKCupid/Tinder/etc profile isn’t pics of them sitting… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
5 years ago

@IAS Also Janka was a Natural who just figured shit out on his own and custom-tailored his game for NYC (lots of street/subway game opportunities, high volume of girls everywhere so more of a numbers-based approach, etc), so a lot of the stuff in that Paul Janka Attraction Formula PDF goes against the grain of what PUAs teach (like he recommends NOT going to nightclubs, avoiding groups, ruling “No” girls out quickly and moving on instead of learning to turn them around, etc, a lot of the same stuff Krauser talks about with Daygame). The main sections I’m linking it… Read more »

Joe K
Joe K
5 years ago

@Ya

I was looking for an even more grim/bleaker view of humanity than I currently hold, and you sure as shit delivered. Thanks for taking the time, appreciate the constructive feedback. I have had plenty of ONSs, so there’s no ‘it’s wrong’ belief on my part, but most of the rest of your critique was pretty damn accurate as to being conflicted internally RE: ethics vs. humanity-as-a-fucking-virus, giving out a ‘too-high-value’ potential provider vibe, not just going balls out with approaching no matter what, etc….will watch the videos (seen Liam’s before).

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

” Humanity” is not a virus.

Mindset is key/important. It’s not them, it’s you.

Thinking along these lines only effects you because ” Humanity” is too busy going about their business to ever really care. Morals and ethics are possibly wonderful things, but they are highly personal and only ever matter deeply to you. There’s a variance in ” morality” that’s dependent upon individual circumstances.

Judge not..etc.

Too much prominence given to ethics and morals can be shattered under the right circumstances. And the results are usually a nihilistic catastrophe. Everything in moderation.

anon
anon
5 years ago

Tyler’s video was interesting, but a lot of his approach seemed more contingent on comedic timing/cleverness. Things are received differently depending on the way they are thrown.
h/t Oscar Wilde.
“If You Want To Tell People the Truth, You’d Better Make Them Laugh or They’ll Kill You”

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@Culum

So, if you use a condom and munch muffins, you can’t get gonorrhea of the throat? Or throat cancer from HPV (Michael Douglas)? Or herpes from making out?

The risks are non-negligible even if you wear a condom unless you avoid ALL fluids from a woman.

Condoms reduce the risk of STDs for PI* only. (PI* is “penis in whatever”.)

anon
anon
5 years ago

That’s fear, dude.
(I kid)
STDs are extremely common. If STDs were difficult to contract or unusual, they would not be extremely common. There’s an illogic to any math that would make them uncommon.
(and yes, I’ve had patients who have died from HPV related mouth cancer)
Anyone who thinks STDs are difficult or unusual needs to volunteer for one day at just about any public health clinic.

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago
Reply to  anon
othergrain
othergrain
5 years ago

“You assume incorrectly that I was supposed to merely observe.” Please see the two times where you said you were there to observe. I didn’t assume anything: “I was an OBSERVER for my buddy when he was on a date.” “Heard this through my buddy who was on a date with her and invited me along to OBSERVE her.” I forgot to wait for you to say it a third time before it becomes true. “She already had a decent investment in him texting him all day a couple of days.” Cuz we all know how much work it is… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

My ( recent) understanding is that monogamy and ltr’s have no benefits in 2016.😂😞

So guys, condoms in all circumstances and keep random Chick’s bodily fluids and secretions out of you. Use the big head more than the little one.

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

@ kfg I have been convinced beyond the shadow of a doubt that the region or the country in which one lives make a difference in how interactions take place and are perceived. I have not been able to observe this women on tinder 24/7-/texting/orbiter phenomenon, nor has anyone I’ve spoken to about it over the past 6 months or so. Yet guys still say here in the comments that this is a factor. Due to anonymity I don’t know where in the country they are seeing this to such a consistent degree as to declare it a universal. Maybe… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

HABD is hypergamy always in play?… (rhetorical…) Let’s stipulate it is always in play, to a degree. We don’t need to measure the degree. But it is a gradient, not binary… Would you stipulate that solipsism is also always in play? Once the Arbiter has decided… there is tremendous pressure on the hamster to continue to justify HER choices… Solipsism So there you have Cindy Rooney slapping Cap for his slipping in her eyes… because it lowers her view of her choice… And you have Kate Upton slapping the media because Justin’s losing the Cy Young lowers her view of… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@grain Gamer: “You assume incorrectly that I was supposed to merely observe.” Please see the two times where you said you were there to observe. I didn’t assume anything: You assumed “merely”. I was there to observe, as my buddy wanted, but I chose to bring the party as well. I don’t enjoy playing the spinster aunt. You asked for feedback, I provided (beta trait) and you dismissed it out of hand. Nah, I just got nitpicky about the details. We basically agree that my buddy dropped the ball. The chick has had brain surgery and he felt bad about… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
5 years ago

Blax I can’t recall the exact article, but Nielsen recently put the avg American adult at over 10.5 hours of electronic media per day (increasing every year) And I mean, the millennial stereotype is “nose buried in their phone” As for location, I think you’re right that there are differences nationwide, but I don’t think it’s as drastic as you might. A millennial is a millennial is a millennial… Here’s one study somewhat related: http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insights/news/2016/their-generation-from-location-to-listening-habits-a-media-divide-exists.html When I’m at a party or bar/club, yea most people are pretty engaged with those they’re with. But everyone will at some point whip out… Read more »

BT
BT
5 years ago

Great Post. Women’s default state does often appear to be unhappiness. One wonders if they’re a casualty of the desire feedback loop – that is desire being the root of unhappiness. Do men desire things? Absolutely. However they’re more concrete (ribs, gainful employment, and sex) opposed to women’s eat, pray, love desires that are abstract, mutually exclusive, and constantly in flux (a fulfilling career and time for family, being an independent women and the dependence of a husband to help rear and finance a family home, aging and remaining youthful, etc..) But what concerns me the most is how much… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@Blax

My ( recent) understanding is that monogamy and ltr’s have no benefits in 2016

Pre-Epiphany chicks bring a high risk of infidelity (even for alphas) and Post-Epiphany New-Set-ofBooks chicks bring a moderate risk of infidelity even for alphas, so STDs are a hazard. Assume it’s raining and wear your rubbers, even with LTRs.

Old-Set-of-Books broads bring a low risk of infidelity, so you can bareback if pregnancy isn’t an issue.

Any chick in a LTR brings standard cook/clean/fuck benefits.

anon
anon
5 years ago

“Just take a look around, miserable looking mom’s with there dutiful beaten down husband desperately trying to make it work. Now wonder marriage rates are down, what man in there right mind wants that kind of life?”

Yes. I mentioned before I believe that chronic unhappiness can be a sort of habit that feeds on itself. Happiness can be contagious, and so can unhappiness. Just like most other things. Thinking= doing, but doing also can = thinking.

It’s even been scientifically proven.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/smile-it-could-make-you-happier/

SFC Ton
5 years ago

Sorry Roll but I couldn’t muster up the give a damn about women being unhappy to read the post.

Right certain it’s the only one I’ve skipped

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

@ asd Nah, it doesn’t have to go that route re: cheating women. A man can have a relationship that doesn’t involve a random dick making a guest appearance. It’s not a given that this will happen, but it does depend on the man ( like everything else… burden) and what kind of woman he has ( vetting ). All women are capable, not all absolutely will. Regardless of what set of books, the nature of females is unchanged at it’s core. It’s the responsibility of any serious man to understand this and conduct himself accordingly to get the desired… Read more »

dr zipper
dr zipper
5 years ago

acct testing…. more to come.

Softek
Softek
5 years ago

@ Blax

re: cheating

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3psB9nG75sM

Watching that one again. Got me rolling.

dr zipper
dr zipper
5 years ago

Long time lurker and not much of a joiner. But this RP stuff is life-changing and I can endorse 99% of Rollo’s writings as being a bullseye in my personal experience.

As part of my ongoing process of self improvement, I hope to participate and contribute in some way to the discussions.

I’ll leave it at that for now.

Softek
Softek
5 years ago

@ zipper

Welcome to the crew.

@ Blax

1) Be RP aware
2) Be the best version of yourself you can be

This is all men can do, really. Whatever women are doing or aren’t doing doesn’t change that.

Paralysis by analysis. “They’re just women” is a good mantra to keep in mind.

RP awareness is like a long, Zen journey to enlightenment. We learn the special, complicated rules of women, only to ultimately come to the conclusion that there is nothing special or complicated about women.

Black Pill
Black Pill
5 years ago

@bt “I mean fuck ladies, you got the kids you wanted, now what? You got the job you wanted, now what? You got the body you wanted, now what? Instead of the “now what” why not enjoy and rest in your successes? But no, the target moves again, and so to does the woman’s unhappiness.”

The lead singer of the Methadones obviously got burned a few times and ended up writing some great butthurt post-relationship fallout songs. I think this song is pretty much the anthem for what you just said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnOfpF8IVY4

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