The Key Masters

keymaster

In last week’s comments Not Born This Morning dropped this comment in the last thread:

It has been said and it seems fairly well established as a presumed reality that “Women are the gate keepers to sex and men are the gate keepers to commitment”. This model of gender specific “gatekeeping” seems to be the most widely accepted model in the red pill community and the general culture accepts it readily. This model seems rational enough, it significantly forms our frame of understanding about gender dynamics upon which we base our interpretations of behavior & intents, and our decisions to act. But is it the best model to explain what is really going on? Could this model be inferior in that it fails to account for an underlying more fundamental motivator? Is there a more accurate explanation for women’s intents and behaviors? Could this model be potentially deceptive?

The sex side of this model is simple and easy to understand. It is very clear and specific to the fundamental biologic. It is inarguable, not negotiable. The primary drive motivating the sexual aspect is not political or social. It is biological. This is not the case with the commitment side. The commitment side is primary to the political and social realm. “Commitments” are always components of contracts written or otherwise.

To comprehend what I’m about to explain, we must first agree on the primary definition of commitment. As I understand it, a commitment is a pledge to do something, a proclamation to perform certain action (or inaction) within a specific context for the benefit of another usually in exchange for some consideration. In the sexual context women seek “commitment” from a man primarily for provisioning and sexual exclusivity. The man “commits” to the woman that he will abandon his freedom and not enter into sexual relations with other women. He pledges himself financially and sexually to her exclusively. Realistically, this form of “commitment” includes the man abandoning his options. If he becomes sexually involved with another woman, it is widely considered that he has “broken his commitment” and he is dishonored by her and society for “breaking the commitment”. But, has he really broken any commitment other than a self denigrating pledge to forgo his freedom and abandon his options? Since obviously the male imperative is polygamy and spreading his seed, then isn’t the imposition to “commit” in the first place really a dishonor of his sexuality and a dishonor to him? If so, isn’t “commitment” in this context nothing more than a form of enslavement?

So by saying men are the “gate keepers of commitment” aren’t we really saying that men are the “gatekeepers of their own enslavement”?

I’ve read this line of thought from various MGTOW hardliners in various iterations and I’ve even written a post on the concept of commitment  and what it does or doesn’t mean to a man. The idea is to equate committing to a woman with some irrational agreement to self-induced slavery. However, the problem most men have with commitment is that the old set of books has a social mandate for men to keep their word or honor an agreement. It’s what men do. Say what you mean and stick to it, but as with most every uniquely male custom, Honor among men has been one more useful distortion of the Feminine Imperative.

As I mentioned in the Paradox of Commitment, men don’t have nearly the fear of commitment our feminized social order would have us believe. Men aren’t “commit-o-phones” when it comes to military service or dedicating themselves to a business. These are the areas the women’s magazines conveniently overlook when it comes to comparing men’s commitment with committing to women in monogamy. I’m bringing this up because it’s important to see how men commit to things other than fidelity to a single woman.

If we’re going to equate monogamous fidelity to a woman with slavery we also need to see how other commitments can be viewed as being, or not being, slavery. Is the commitment of military service slavery? Particularly if you know have a pretty good idea of what to expect from that commitment? Are you volunteering for slavery if you start a business and become financially beholden to it?

From  the Paradox of Commitment:

You can even take marriage out of the equation; if I’m in a committed LTR with a GF and over the course of that relationship I realize that she’s not what I’m looking for (for any number of reasons, not just sex), even though she’s 100% faithfully committed to me and the LTR, should I then break that commitment? If I do, am I then being unethical for having broken that commitment irrespective of how I break it? Should the commitment to my own personal well being and future happiness be compromised by another commitment?

What’s my obligation; neglect myself in favor of a bad commitment or to the principle of commitment itself?

It’s my take that commitment ‘should’ be a function of genuine desire. Ideally, commitment should be to something one is so passionate about that the limiting of one’s own future opportunities that come from that commitment is an equitable, and mutually appreciated trade. This is, unfortunately, rarely the case for most people in any form of commitment because people, circumstance, opportunity and conditions are always in flux. A commitment that had been seen as equitable sacrifice at one time can become debilitating 5 years after it depending upon circumstance.

Under the old social contract, the idea that a man would compromise his sexual strategy to fulfill a woman’s (Hypergamy in the long term) had a presumed exchange – sexual access, parental investment, companionship, a good, supportive feminine role example for the kids, etc. – that made the commitment of marriage at least somewhat appealing, if not entirely equitable. I supposed a case could still be made that even under the old order of conventional gender roles and expectations men were still committing themselves to a downside bargain. But in our new, feminine-primary social order, with our broader communication, it’s certainly signing up for slavery of a sort in comparison to the options available being single.

A lot of guys think that by my advising men to spin plates and remain as non-exclusive as possible that its sole purpose is to free them up to indiscriminately bang as many women as possible. While sexual variety maybe an upside to non-exclusivity, there are many more freedoms and options that a non-exclusive man can invest himself in where committed men cannot, or wouldn’t even think to.

So yes, from a male sexual strategy perspective, and considering the terms of that commitment and consequences of breaking it are all glaringly apparent, signing up for that commitment might be assigning yourself to a kind of slavery. Under our present social conditions, staying single might be as good as it gets for men.

However, that said, there is still an undeniable, idealistic, hope that men can make the best of a marriage. Most men (see the 80% Beta men) still remarry in far greater margins than women, even after horrific divorces. We can attribute that to the sustainability of men’s sexual market value lasting longer than women’s, but the desire to want for a lasting monogamy is what I’m getting at. Even in light of the fact that women are hardwired for Hypergamy, and in light of women’s inability to appreciate the sacrifices men must make to facilitate their realities, men still, sooner or later, have a desire to lock down or otherwise wife-up a woman he idealizes. I have read the testimonies of men who will go to any length to stay in a marriage if even the outside hope of it improving exists.

I think this desire might be both a conditional and innate drive in men.

In Mrs. Hyde I quoted a study by Dr. Martie Haselton from Why is muscularity sexy? :

According to strategic pluralism theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.

It’s entirely possible that a man’s sexual strategy is the simple result of his adapting to his circumstance.

Under the old social order, prior to the upheaval of the sexual revolution and feminine social primacy, investing heavily in one’s mate made good sense if the guy wanted to procreate. As men, I think we still want to apply more value to our commitment in this respect. I think it gets back to the fallacy of relational equity, but because most Blue Pill men believe that there is value in their committing to a woman, and they falsely think that women have the capacity to appreciate it, we tend to build more into it as some kind of mutually understood relationship leverage.

Gatekeepers

Back before Roosh began making his necessities into virtues, he had a pretty good insight about women being “gatekeepers” of both sex and commitment:

A popular manosphere saying is that women are gatekeepers to sex and men are gatekeepers to commitment. I wish this was an absolute truth, but it’s not. As a collective, women are often gatekeepers to both sex and commitment. Most men reading right now can surely attest to their failed attempts to secure commitment from women they slept with, and if you poll the entire population of men, you may find that they are the initiators of monogamous relationships more often than women. It only makes sense for this to be true: it is way more damaging for a man to have his woman sleep with another man and get cuckolded than the other way around. The 0.5% of the population who are skilled players and have more say with commitment don’t put a dent into this common reality. As a sex, men have very little say in determining the relationship dynamic.

[…]It would be a nice fantasy for us men to believe that we have a say in relationships and sex. It’d be nice to think that our “alpha” behavior and our game determines how a relationship can proceed, but often it doesn’t. We’re just giving the girl what she has already decided on. Do you really think you’re selling televisions to customers who came into the store with the intent to buy bicycles? The girl who falls in love with us wanted to fall in love with us, the girl who had fun with us wanted to just have fun with us, and so on. And even when a girl wants a bicycle, she still wants a certain kind of bicycle. This is why game is a numbers game, because girls are incredibly picky even when they are sexually available. The horniest girl in the club who decided on having sex will still have her pick of the litter and opt to get the best that she can.

From the perspective of men using Game to secure some kind of commitment with a woman, I’d agree, it is a numbers game. But, in general, most men aren’t learning PUA/Game to settle into an LTR and most Red Pill aware men (should) understand the nature of women well enough to leverage Game if (ever) they do look for commitment.

Roosh was correct about men not really being gatekeepers of commitment though. I think there’s a definite want on the part of guys to believe that they have some sort of leverage in the ultimate scheme of things. The Feminine Imperative constantly conditions men to think that their commitment to a woman is something insanely valuable to women. Thus, we see shaming tactics designed to call men out for avoiding commitment irrespective of men’s reasons for wanting to take precautions. This has the effect of conditioning men to think that they are the gatekeepers of something valuable.

In a sense, commitment is something valuable to a woman, however, in the age of Open Hypergamy and Strong Independent Women®, the writing is on the wall for men with regard to the convenient need for that commitment at the end-game phase of a woman’s sexual market value. So yes, a man’s commitment to monogamy with a woman has inherent value, but men are hardly the gatekeepers of it when it is a woman who does the deciding as to whether any one guy’s commitment makes any difference to her.

So, we come to a question of comparative equity with regard to men “signing up for slavery” and how inherently valuable his commitment (as convenient as it’s needed) really is to a woman. I have no doubt there are several women reading this right now who are in “relationship limbo” with a guy they desperately want to commit to them in some official capacity. And no doubt they’ll drop a story in the comments personalizing it to be typical of men, but I would argue Roosh’s point that men are the initiators of monogamous relationships far more often than women. Ironically, commitment only has value to a woman when it’s denied to her by a man who’s SMV outclasses her own.

For obvious reasons, highly desirable women, women at the peak of their sexual market valuation, are always the least concerned with men’s capacity to commit. They largely have the luxury to be selective, but furthermore the time at which women are at their highest SMV is usually the point at which men are still building upon their own. Eventually, commitment only has an appreciable value to a woman when she is most in need of it; when her SMV is in decline.

I should also point out that men, the majority being Blue Pill Betas, are the most necessitous of a woman’s commitment when she is at her highest, his is an unproven commodity, and he appreciates the value of a woman’s commitment. Thus, most men look for a stable monogamy in their early to mid 20s, while more mature men who’ve had time to build their SMV into their mid to late thirties tend to be less concerned with monogamy. This is why we hear the constant drone of women bemoaning that highly valuable, supposedly peer-equitable men’s unwillingness to commit and settle down with women aging out of the sexual marketplace. Women are far less concerned with the commitment-readiness of young, unproven men who themselves would commit to even a women in the mid-range of her SMV.

At the end here, I think it’s time Red Pill men disabuse themselves of the idea that they are the ‘gatekeepers’ of commitment, and rather employ their internalized Red Pill awareness and Game to be the ‘key masters’ of women. While I have no doubt that commitment can be a carrot on the stick for some women, the problem really lies in how that commitment is in anyway valuable and balance that knowledge with the fact that commitment, once given, becomes valueless and taken for granted when it’s established. The fact that you’d commit to a woman isn’t something that carries a relationship, no matter how badly she wanted it from you before.

There really is no quid pro quo when it comes to commitment or value in believing you’re a gatekeeper of it.

Law 20
Do Not Commit to Anyone

It is the fool who always rushes to take sides. Do not commit to any side or cause but yourself. By maintaining your independence, you become the master of others – playing people against one another, making them pursue you.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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kfg
kfg
7 years ago

How many trees are in this picture?:

comment image

newlyaloof
7 years ago

@Blax @Sentient. You’ll like this one:

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

@Softek This is just for reference in follow up to Sentient and Forge’s comments about touch. It is not meant to be practical advice because you have nowhere near the mastery that Franco (an expert at attraction and seduction) had as he wrote this in his Manual of Seduction. But one day five years from now it might come in handy as a reference: (And of course this is stuff that YaReally and Scray have detailed thousands of times before, but it is written in proper paragraph form.) The phase of physical contact Women have been made to feel guilty… Read more »

Softek
Softek
7 years ago

@ Rollo Honestly, I don’t know. My brain feels like scrambled eggs at the moment. @ Forge @ Sentient And here goes the letting go of mental illness, just focus on today and moving forward… One reaction I just thought of was hyperbolizing her recoiling, as you said. Like not being serious, and over-exaggerating and putting my hands up in the air like I was getting arrested and making a stupid face or something, or like I just flipped over a rock and there was a green three headed centipede with red eyes staring and hissing at me. All I… Read more »

Softek
Softek
7 years ago

@ SJF Thanks for the advice, along with Sentient and Forge and everyone else. Despite the current relationship not working out, it DID start out great. The escalation couldn’t have been more perfect and I couldn’t have been more comfortable. I remember everything from the eye contact, to gradually sitting closer on the couch, to her slapping my leg occasionally when something really funny happened on the show we were watching, then me mirroring what she did, calibrating with her comfort level that she was revealing by how she was touching me, maintaining eye contact…. …and it wasn’t too long… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Othergrain Because that’s what the guys here are opposed to, the hard work. IDK OG, guys seem to confuse some work with hard work…. necessary but insufficient… stuff like Sun saying this “It’s taken me what… two years?” Makes me think, two years? Two years? I get where he is coming from but two years is not much. I’m five years in studying game and such like a job, running SNL game in different cities around the country, 27 years in a LTR, married with 5 kids… Rollo’s time doing this stuff? HOLY SHIT! Yareally put in 10 years of… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
7 years ago

@rollo
“https://therationalmale.com/2011/11/11/the-mature-man/
https://therationalmale.com/2012/09/14/amused-mastery/

Read them and will re-read. Just thought there may have been a little something else… Now gaming someone 23 years younger so I don’t want to fuck it up (again)

Andy
Andy
7 years ago

@Softek

Apply effort into leaving this chick. The only thing left to learn from her is that you’ll be okay after a breakup. It will be a huge weight off your shoulders. You just need to make the jump.

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

Rollo: “Blue Pill conditioning has raised generations of Beta men to see monogamy as a Buffer against rejection. Betas embrace committed monogamy as an article of personal virtue, when it is in fact his discomfort with rejection that makes this an ego-investment. …….. From a Blue Pill perspective, serial monogamy / marriage ostensibly represents some form of rejection insurance to a Beta who’s been taught that he must (morally and practically) invest himself heavily in a mate. Red Pill awareness disillusions men of this, but it’s not something bizarre or unexpected from men. In today’s social order it makes less… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

@ Andy The follow on to that last passage by Shark in The Black Flag was this: (hope I don’t screw up the blockquote formatting) THE SUPER EGO “If I were you, I would not attempt to cross the Granicus river” “And if I were you, I would also not attempt to cross the Granicus. But luckily, I am Alexander.” Some men are in another class of being, bleeding confidence after every blow and commanding poon with rapacious charm. Their deluded senses of self are not their weaknesses; they are the sources of their charisma. The term “ego” is always… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
7 years ago

@Softek

Good start. Write a FR about it.

It might seem silly but it collects your thoughts and keeps you accountable.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“Our conditioned desire to avoid being “cocky” has been artificially inflated to emasculate us.”

Be the figure, not the ground.

Glengarry
Glengarry
7 years ago

“She was just showing me some shit on her phone that was funny, and also sexual, and then while she was laughing she pushed my arm lightly. I reciprocated” OK, first of all this sounds like a broken woman. Even if those are the easiest to get into a relationship, and sort of fall into your lap by themselves, I wouldn’t really recommend them for a starter relationship. Perhaps not any relationship. I think the whole situation of her acting like she’s your porn bro is weird. She probably wants to heat you up but don’t want to admit it.… Read more »

Chump No More
Chump No More
7 years ago

@Andy, “No butthurt here, just objective, logical analysis trying to figure out why these old guys are getting their panties in a twist defending a legal contract that is tilted in a woman’s favor, tilted against your own favor, and tilted AGAINST your children’s favor.” Being a married, old guy, I group myself with Blax, SJF, Sentient, & Roused’s philosophy. I’m content doing my thing from my RP perspective, and it works very well for me. I’m loving life, with a mission I have true passion for and zero doubt others are envious of, a happy, healthy balance of work… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ Sentient I get that guys are struggling with some things, and it’s not ever my intention to belittle them in ANY fashion, but I like the way you phrased the thing about stuff being hard. It got me to thinking….. I have made a real effort to try many, many things in life. The way I see it, I have never ” failed ” at anything, but I have fallen short on occasions from not 1) having the correct knowledge, and 2) Not really applying myself fully or putting in enough effort. Call me delusional, but I truly don’t… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
7 years ago

@rollo “Game works in an LTR, the question you need to ask is, do you want it to work in an LTR?” I think we all agree that the same aspects of game that GET her attracted to you, will KEEP her attracted to you in the long run (being able to maintain that high value, hypergamy triggering, is another thing). Now in a pickup, its safe to say that there are things that make GETTING her attracted harder (amogs, white nights, mother hens, logistics, her personality (is she feisty and you’re not good at handling that?)). There are proven… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Chump No More — Outstanding comment.

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Blax

“It took me 18 months to learn to walk.”

OK… 18 months… jeez…. no more shaming Blax for being a natural then…

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Othergrain “In a LTR, there are also things that make KEEPING her attracted harder” Yes keeping attraction is much harder than creating it in a SNL… because of girls runaway nature… so you have to work at it all the time really… but it’s not that if you sit on the coach for an hour your LTR or W is going to run outside and start sucking some doods cock right away… it may take years, it may never happen… but that still doesn’t mean YOU have her attraction… So do the work right? I go to this one Asian… Read more »

sfer
sfer
7 years ago

“Apply effort into leaving this chick. The only thing left to learn from her is that you’ll be okay after a breakup. It will be a huge weight off your shoulders. You just need to make the jump.”

100% true. You don’t have to hero mode this. Just leave.

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Blax

“Because of these things, I do not see much in life as hard or impossible. I really believe guys can do anything that they are willing to put the work in for.”

Amen and amen…

Radium
Radium
7 years ago

@cheupez “1. Great for the married guys who got it together. You understand though that the chances that you that your daughter will cheat on her dude are higher than the chances that your wife has. 2. All men’s estimate for that chance for their wives is always lower than what tumbles out in “well structured” studies, and well structured studies are suspected to under estimate.” Women under reporting cheating on their significant others goes back a very long time. A 15th century scholar by the name of Poggio Bracciolini recorded jokes priests were telling each other. One of the… Read more »

Andy
Andy
7 years ago

“Both deliberately pursue their passions on their terms and that’s the core message here… How can that be wrong?” @ChumpNoMore Nothing is wrong with “it works for me.” But what is wrong with optimizing your chances for success? Especially when some kid comes by with his head in the clouds and isn’t looking rationally at the legal agreement he’s about to head into because of the social convention of the M-WORD. Marriage is just a word, a piece of paper and a legal agreement. I don’t give a fuck if a guy gets MARRIED. I care that he’s entering into… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@SJF I don’t disagree with LTRs with good Frame being a necessary/good thing. Babies gotta come from somewhere and kids need two parents, regardless of the legal arrangement those two are in. Men should just find a legal arrangement that isn’t marriage and protects their asses instead of accepting giving away their only leverage in a one-sided arrangement built to protect women who couldn’t work and needed a man to survive. If I were to say a thing I think the ‘sphere as a whole could do for commitment-minded men, it would be to come up with a contractual framework… Read more »

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
7 years ago

@Andy

According to my understanding in this state,common law marriage can be construed as two people being seen as a couple regardless weather they have even spent the night together.

If you take my advice it is your fault,if you don’t it is your fault.

When I was 20 and married a 23 yo the guys at work all said don’t do it my best friend said the same,did I listen? No,Am I still married?yes.Am I listening now 35 years later?Sometimes.

Chump No More
Chump No More
7 years ago

Andy, I still don’t see us disagreeing… except for your mis-characterizing Blax’s comments. That part is just disingenuous and silly. I’ve yet to read any OMG here, most especially Blax, advocating marriage to a young kid without an internalized RP mindset and solid Frame. anything else would be leading a lamb to the slaughter and no RP aware man of good conscious would do that. I’ve yet to read any OMG here claim that marriage is a necessary part of being a whole, self-actualized man, but they will tell you the inverse is true. Otherwise, we’re pretty much on the… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
7 years ago

OMG I’m sick of this lopsided convo.

Men ARE the gatekeepers of SPERM.

Use game to make her want it more than the next chimp’s sperm.

Time to play “make me happy, bitch.”

Remember to flush. A lady must always swallow.

P.S. Tyler is a turncoat

Long live Mystery

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ Chump No More ” I’ve yet to read any OMG here, most especially Blax, advocating marriage to a young kid without an internalized RP mindset and solid Frame. anything else would be leading a lamb to the slaughter and no RP aware man of good conscious would do that.” Lol. Yo man, no matter what I say, my position will be interpreted as I’m pro marriage for every single man on the planet, no matter HOW MANY TIMES I state the opposite. It always, always goes this way with these conversations. The problem, I think, is that I don’t… Read more »

scray
scray
7 years ago

@Sentient IDK OG, guys seem to confuse some work with hard work…. necessary but insufficient… super solid post. like, every time I hear some guy whining about his sex life or anything in his life I’m like ‘okay, well….what are you going to do about it?’ and there’s just a litany of gay ass waaah waaah. Seriously boils down to making two or three good choices a day and setting aside like an hour or so. Go to the gym — 30 mins-hr Practice talking to women — 30 mins – 2 hrs. etc .etc. If you just relax and… Read more »

Andy
Andy
7 years ago

“I still love you Andy.”

Lol, I just don’t think it’s necessary to point out the fact that it’s technically possible to make it work to a guy that is planning on entering a marriage without a prenup. That’s it. That guy will most likely take it the wrong way.

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

@rugby11

See all those characters in the link, that’s tracking and you don’t want that. Always simplify the link, for example, same link:

http://dailysignal.com/2016/08/25/a-college-strikes-back-against-safe-spaces

walawala
walawala
7 years ago

Marriage…. I have never talked about mine because… I’m now divorced over 12 years. A few things about my marriage. My ex wife lied about her age when we first me….to make herself seem more attractive she was actually 4 years older than me. She was pushing for marriage and asked me. Once married she was super keen to have a kid to the point of obsession. That super chill, fun, easy going girl had been replaced by…the real one. It was too much for me to bear: she became obsessed, angry, over-bearing. Then she had an operation to have… Read more »

Chump No More
Chump No More
7 years ago

, ” Seeing guys without game now is like watching someone trying to figure out a Rubik’s Cube…”

Lol, best comment all day.

Amen, brother.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

And now for a dose of humor:

Höllenhund
Höllenhund
7 years ago

This is just theory, but I think that if you pick an <25 7+ and just knock her up immediately, and keep her knocked up/nursing till she's post wall you're probably going to be fine.

It’s the surest way to go bankrupt. You’ll probably overwork yourself, your health will go to shit and you’ll die an early death, getting milked for money one way or another to pay for all the brats.

Höllenhund
Höllenhund
7 years ago

The dynamic is not very different with women who are older (say up to 50s range). These women have been in the workforce their entire lives, around high value men there and at the gym and elsewhere in their lives, and also now are on social media as well. They have orbiters, “office spouses”, personal trainers and so on. They did not grow up with social media, but many have taken to it with gusto — it makes sense given what it provides to them. It’s still all about optionality, which is something that women will naturally pursue due to… Read more »

Höllenhund
Höllenhund
7 years ago

Great comments by YaReally. The main lesson to take away is that the spreading female addiction to social media is making Game harder to implement while also eroding its potential payoff. If you’re looking for more than just a jizz bucket, what’s the point in getting a girl if you won’t even be able to make her lose her orbiter army and social media addiction?

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

CHump No More

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2015/07/02/how-to-blow-past-girls-dropping-the-creep-bomb/?iframe=true&preview=true#comment-683618

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIvHw17vuGU&feature=youtu.be

“EVERY girl has a Rubik’s Cube in her head, solve it and the legs open. can you solve it? Are you MAN ENOUGH to solve it?”

“But you have to do the work.”

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

Blaximus: “…..Because of these things, I do not see much in life as hard or impossible. I really believe guys can do anything that they are willing to put the work in for. You wanna talk about building confidence? Man, make a list of shit you’d like to do and knock that shit out. Then start a new list. Keep going until you can’t any longer. Individuals never really understand their own potential. I think ” hard ” is a mindset. A debilitating one at that. There is stuff that guys have no interest in, or don’t want to do,… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
7 years ago

“Our conditioned desire to avoid being “cocky” has been artificially inflated to emasculate us.”

Cockiness is the primary male sexual display. Use it amply and judiciously.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
7 years ago

@Sun

Ha! That was epic!

But let’s get serious with our metal here. This one’s a real crooner, should be a great panty-dropper if you’ve got a girl over.

http://youtu.be/JU5392rZoFc

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

HOW THE FEMININE GROWS (despite social media) Deida in the book Intimate Communion An essential Feminine principle is that of opening to love. The Feminine nurtures, gives life and dances in sensual joy-although sometimes Feminine energy is also wild, fierce or chaotic. The Feminine can shine with radiance or can appear dark and mysterious. The Feminine is the force of life altogether: the healing force of nature, the life-giving force of earth, as well as the force of destruction, which reabsorbs that to which it has given birth. The Feminine force is not goal-oriented and directional, so the Feminine heroine… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

Chapter 35 of The Way of the Superior Man You Are Always Searching for Freedom The essential masculine ecstasy is in the moment of release from constraint. This could occur when facing death and living through it, succeeding in (and thus being released from) your purpose, and in competition (which is ritual threat of death). The masculine is always seeking release from constraint into freedom. The feminine often doesn’t understand these masculine ways and needs. Your basic motivation is to be released from constraint and experience the freedom on the other side. What are some of the most common forms… Read more »

Havier
Havier
7 years ago

Modern humans according to evo psych:

hank holiday
hank holiday
7 years ago

@othergrain yaya asian girl is good. adding more to it though. gist of the story now is that I was at mechanics shop. saw mechanics hitting on shy asian girl. she gave me a “help me look”. so I came in and chatted with the mechanics a bit so she could get away from them. I joked around with the mechanics and told them to give up on the asian girl because she was a lesbian “trust me I know, lol. shes a lost cause.” Then I went back to the asian girl and chatted with her for a bit… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
7 years ago

I deeply thank you for your latest post. I’m also curious what YaReally will say back to it.

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

“Its not enough just to work hard. You also have to know what to work hard AT, and HOW to PROPERLY work hard.” Long Term Relationship Game–What to work At: (TL;DR version of what I posted earlier…..) The Evolution of Relating Styles Any teaching dealing with modern relationships really must address the highly charged issue of feminism, it’s message, and its effects on modern intimate relationships. Deida, in the opinion of these LiveReal Editors, is one of those who seems to handle the situation well: the core teaching (similar, say, to Masters, Long, and others) explains a position that is… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

“I’m also curious what YaReally will say back to it.”

I’m not.

scray
scray
7 years ago

@hank You guys are oversimplifying things with the whole “just work hard bro” To me you guys are like chicks — you’ve always had some sort of success and things to work on. But you have no experience of working yourself up from the bottom. Lol well that is definitely wrong. But when you don’t KNOW what you want in life, you don’t know HOW to improve it. Nah dude. You KNOW that you want to be better with women. That’s enough. That’s what you want. Hard work is easy. Lol no it isn’t. If it was, most of America… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

Blax “After sex you go check for a text from your orbiter or check out what’s up on tinder????” Whatchoo mean “after”, Willis? This survey of 1,000 20-somethings shows 10% of them don’t mind receiving text while doing it. Dunno if that translates to 10% willing to text during, but would not surprise me. http://theweek.com/articles/494554/texting-during-sex-new-text-etiquette Check the year, it’s from 2010. So that percentage can only be higher now. Someone out there has to be livestreaming off their phone… Come to think of it, livestreaming off the phone to Facebook or wherever in the cloud might not be a bad… Read more »

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“Come to think of it, livestreaming off the phone to Facebook or wherever in the cloud might not be a bad idea . . .” Been SOP for years, as well as 24/7 GPS locating, so if the bitch tries to claim that you did something where and when you weren’t you have evidence to the contrary. ” . . . it’s a single point that could be compromised.” If there is a complaint the police will confiscate your devices. If the data is in the cloud you aren’t left in a position where you are the only one involved… Read more »

Johnycomelately
Johnycomelately
7 years ago

Holy shit, talk about butterfly’s, rainbows and bubblegum farts.

I’ll have to remember to tell this to my white night buddy at the mall who married a woman from a war zone with children and got his ass handed to him in a divorce after he took the ‘family’ on a world tour with his retirement money.

I’m sure this alcoholic can assure himself of ‘third stage love’ as he tries to get money pushing trolleys to feed his addiction after being reduced to rubble by his divorce.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“Holy shit, talk about butterfly’s, rainbows and bubblegum farts.”

He does at least stop short of pyramid and crystal power.

” . . . the body becomes transparent in radiant energy.”

Although this sort of mass conversion is likely to leave the body a bit of a mess, not to mention the surrounding neighborhood.

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

What’s your point? Third stage love is not for pathetic, loser first stage AFC’s with pathetic loser woman partners. Only for red pill aware, naturals who keep frame and resist being betatized or those learned in game mastery with quality women who value LTR’s and are not afraid to keep what is good (a quality woman that is better that anyone else out there in his experience or on the horizon–one with true value) with his own children involved. A man doesn’t need to be a peacekeeper. https://therationalmale.com/2012/06/13/the-peacekeepers/ Experimentation The underlying, root problem most men have with regard to women,… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

What is success in a LTR? From Rollo’s essay “As Good as it Gets” “The real measure of Game is only truly tested by how well it gets you laid. You can use your understanding of Game to improve your life, your career, your family interactions, etc. You can use your grasp of Game to destroy a feminist’s arguments and you can use it to literally save a man from suicide, but the real test is in how well it provably functions in getting you to intimacy with a woman. You know, when ” . . . the body becomes… Read more »

Johnycomelately
Johnycomelately
7 years ago

What’s it like in your ivory tower peering down at the peons bestowing us unwashed masses with your screeds of enlightenment, must be nice.

Why are you so invested in pissing in people’s pockets and calling it rainbow droplets? Benevolent enlightenment or some pathological need to
justify yourself.

You’d make a great guest on Oprah but I’ll stick with YaReally.

Höllenhund
Höllenhund
7 years ago

As far as the subject of this post is concerned, the situation is simple. Men, on average, are more reluctant to initiate commitment than women. (For example, a male 5 is more reluctant to do that than a female 5.) Women, on average, are more reluctant to staying committed than men. In other words, in relationships women are normally the first in and the first out. Both sexes are picky in their own ways in relationships, but since men are picky in the beginning, and not the end, there’s a general view that they’re gategeepers of commitment.

Colbert
Colbert
7 years ago

This guy has a pretty chill style that I like. Good vid.

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DsVwYqVhdU&w=560&h=315%5D

Andy
Andy
7 years ago

I could never read that Deida book. Two paragraphs in and I want to put my boot through his face.

Colbert
Colbert
7 years ago

@ SJF,

More Franco and less Deida – please. Your next Deida post is gonna be TL;DR for me – lol

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
7 years ago

@Hollenhund My take on this original post,it is another paradox,conundrum if you will. Commitment is relative to circumstances as to witch sex wants it,sometimes it is the male sometimes it is the female.Depending on the variables of market value,conditioning,game,trends and the list goes on. What I found most interesting is the art work.It appears to be a picture of the key master from the matrix,this guy from all appearances is celibate,or an incel.In the movie his character seems resigned to his work and solitude Basically what I am getting out of this,is that when the odds are stacked against a… Read more »

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

@stuffinbox

“My take on this original post,it is another paradox, conundrum if you will. Commitment is relative to circumstances as to witch sex wants it …”

Rollo wrote:

I should also point out that men, the majority being Blue Pill Betas, are the most necessitous of a woman’s commitment when she is at her highest, his is an unproven commodity, and he appreciates the value of a woman’s commitment.

Getting a woman’s commitment is like grabbing a handful of water. That’s the paradox.

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

Male commitment When Steve Berkeley met his eventual wife, Christine, seven years ago, he knew their lives together would be filled with children. She had three from a previous relationship and he had one. What he did not know is that Christine would choose to go through at least three more pregnancies and give birth to four children — all for other prospective parents. It is an extraordinary commitment, with steep demands on the typical spouse — from lifestyle changes to mood and diet spikes to logistical demands, and the simple, steady presence of someone else’s child growing inside your… Read more »

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
7 years ago

“But Steve, 50, says he is simply allowing his wife to fulfill her need to help others.”

Come on now we all know Steve is full of it.Surrogacy is priceless and becoming more so every day,is steve a prego pimp?

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

@Andy I couldn’t watch that long-haired Tyler video about ego. But the one in which Julien reviews/summarizes Ryan Holliday’s “Ego is the Enemy” is quite good. (and I have actually practiced the principles he lists for the last 40 years, esp from the 11:00 to the 14:00 mark). And lo and behold @ the 18:30 mark: Always love. Love is transformational. Hate is debilitating. Where has hate or rage ever gotten someone anywhere? (And don’t be afraid of the word love. Love, romance, sexual polarity–masculine/feminine and fucking are totally different things. Love has nothing to do necessarily with sex. You… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

@Colbert More Franco: It relates to the OP and commitment. As in: Rollo: “While I have no doubt that commitment can be a carrot on the stick for some women, the problem really lies in how that commitment is in anyway valuable and balance that knowledge with the fact that commitment, once given, becomes valueless and taken for granted when it’s established. The fact that you’d commit to a woman isn’t something that carries a relationship, no matter how badly she wanted it from you before.” Human relationships are made of exchanges (by Franco) This is one of my favorite… Read more »

Softek
Softek
7 years ago

@ Forge Went over a girl’s house this weekend. Felt very new for me. Back in my teens and early 20’s I always kind of was amazed at how that was never a normal thing for me, ever. Just to be over a girl’s house by myself. I went with the intention of just hanging out and having a good time and experiencing what it’s like to hang out with a new girl. I missed out on experiences like that. I was really hesitant when she asked me if I wanted to come over but I actually thought of your… Read more »

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
7 years ago

Girl I’ve been seeing tried to commit suicide the same night, ended up going over to support her but left early in the morning instead of staying there all day like I normally would. Bag on the ground, noose hanging from the rafters with a box on the floor and all that shit, bottles of alcohol everywhere.This is probably the absolute most stressful thing of the idea of breaking up with her, because even if I can get over it, I would be absolutely devastated if she killed herself. Damn it Softy,call 911,they will take her in for 72hr observation… Read more »

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

@softek

Did suicidal girl know about other girl, like you told her or she stalks you or checks your phone? Did the crisis end the night with new girl? Did you call 911 or contact mental health help for her?

Softek
Softek
7 years ago

@ redlight No, she didn’t know, and it didn’t end the night with the new girl. When I went out to visit the new girl I made a point of just keeping my phone off. When I got in my car and turned my phone back on, saw that it had blown up. I see all the usual texts “fuck you” “you don’t care about me” etc., and then I was just thinking, “okay, I’m done.” But then I scroll up and all the talk about trying to hang herself, wanting to end things with me and then kill herself,… Read more »

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

If her job includes any sort of EAP (confidential assistance) she needs to be using that. Some have 24/7 emergency phone support. Post on her frig the various help lines. Do not use same psychiatrist, can’t believe that would be a suggestion. Contact her family or friends, just say you are concerned for her, she is going through a rough patch, and needs support. Any further suicidal attempt, do not hesitate to call 911. You are at high risk if you continue to see her privately. For example she could go over to your place, hurt herself, and claim you… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
7 years ago
kobayashii1681
7 years ago

@Rollo: Sensei, would you mind riffing on this – https://youtu.be/K7Vnq3hbdWQ

I think there some conversations about marriage, FI, MPO, Interests…that can be had. But more specifically the way the Woman author and one of the callers towards the end are talking…
Just thought they’d be son stuff to unpack on a ‘RP-vis a vies-society’ tip…

kobayashii1681
7 years ago
Reply to  kobayashii1681

*they’d be a tonne of stuff

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
7 years ago

“Well, he does take a bit of translation into masculine manosphere language.”

You’ve given me a hilarious idea for how I can contribute to this community better. I’ll be ordering that book today.

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Softek…

So how do you feel about ignoring all the advice you got 6 months ago to break off this relationship?

Ya think it’s going to get better tomorrow, next month?

It’s a good thing you aren’t married though right… because then you would be divorce raped (wait whut?)…

This is a trap of your own making, you can unmake it today.

Or not.

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

A perfect example of not doing the hard work…

Softek
Softek
7 years ago

@ Sentient It is a trap of my own making. Seeing the new girl was a huge step for me. Even just opening that door. It was pretty crazy to be alone with a girl in a house. I’m not used to that. Actually meeting up with a girl and having that in-person interaction is irreplaceable. And it had an immediate impact on my emotions and perspective and general sense of well-being. It was the first time in a long time I felt like I really had options and that there is another world out there beyond what I’m experiencing.… Read more »

Colbert
Colbert
7 years ago

@ SJF,

”Sweetie, human relationships are made of exchanges. They are based on never ending giving and receiving. If you give me good things I will give you good things. No good things from you, no good things from me.”

“When practicing seduction you will notice that women are extremely sensitive to this argument.”

Good to know, use and remember.

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Softek

Good stuff, tap into this… you are not responsible for the GF, you do not need to save her from herself. Break it off and save you from yourself…

Good luck.

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

@Colbert It is one hundred percent legit to go into the first stage Deida dependence relationship as a single male or as a PUA. You got to start from an early stage. It is ok to offer dick and accept pussy as a single male in 2016. You don’t need the I’ll scratch your back, you scratch my back, 50/50 relationship. Only in a LTR with kids is when you want to get into the third stage spiritual shit. That is what the gist of that Franco excerpt was. It is non-judgemental OK from the OMG’s to the PUA’s to… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
7 years ago

@Softek Woa, two very different aspects to that evening. I don’t need to comment much on the whole suicide thing. I’ll just say that the sad reality is a) if you weren’t in her life it’d just be some other thing her brain lights on for her to justify feeling like shit/wanting to die, it’s not you; and b) I don’t care if you’ve been through similar things and care for her bla bla YOU CANT HELP HER BY STAYING if anything being around another person struggling with issues makes things worse. Ask me how I know. That aside. WELL… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
7 years ago

Just read your latest comment, so to add: YES, this is an important thing you’re finding. Getting trapped in a pattern w a girl is EASY to break in a way; I’ve talked before that just INTERACTING with an attractive girl for a bit can totally shift your emotional state. And it’s cool to see how you can just go to a girls house, have sex be a possibility, but have it be NO BIG DEAL. You have the choice to just hang if that’s what you want. Demystifies a lot of things for you. New things are working for… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Bias to action= dynamic. The first partnof the Alpha Triad… For a reason.

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

“Thinking of women as “what role do I want them to play in my life” is completely new to me…” Come on Softek. Be a man. What you need to do is decide and implement what role you want to play in real life. You are twisting in the wind. Anchor yourself. You barely have agency. You barely want to stop buffering yourself and do the work. You barely want to: -Learn about the nature of masculinity (to understand men) -Learn the nature of femininity (to understand women) -How the masculine and feminine relate to each other properly Do the… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

“Early gains are just that, early gains. You haven’t yet come close to fixing yourself. The advice on this site is rock solid pay attention and stay humble.

I second the statement made here many times. years of beta behavior can’t be fixed overnight.”i

Game is fungible across all relationship platforms.

Cross post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/4zqeg6/early_rp_gains_can_be_a_false_sign/?ref=share&ref_source=link

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

Can’t Link properly, but} [–]RP_SuitScholar 1 point 6 hours ago Red pill isn’t a gain. It is just like the Red Pill that took Neo out of the Matrix. The Matrix was a happy place. There were steaks, big titted BDSM girls, and good wine. Once he took the Red Pill it was protein gruel, dirty plain girls, and moonshine. But it was also the truth. If you really understand what you have gotten yourself into with RP you would stop being so damn excited like a little kid that found a new toy. You fucked your life by getting… Read more »

Softek
Softek
7 years ago

Thanks for the continued support everyone. Sentient and the rest have been right all along. Funny that when I get a little taste of how ENJOYABLE it is to do these new things, my motivation to do them skyrockets. The hardest part is breaking past the initial barrier of anxiety, e.g. anxiety about cold-approaching, or setting up an interview for a job, or anything else. Once you’re in the pool it’s never as bad as you thought it was going to be when you were standing on the edge thinking about jumping in. Last night on the drive over I… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

Andy I could never read that Deida book. Two paragraphs in and I want to put my boot through his face. I tried reading Deida in a bookstore once. The temptation to throw it out the window was huge. I kept hearing the voice of that hippy teacher from Southpark in my mental ears, for one thing…”mmkay, she’s got to have her FEMinine ENergy, okay class?” It’s clearly not a once-size fits all book, and while it’s 1990’s it’s more like hippy-dippy 1970’s stuff. But you don’t understand. It worked for SJF in his 3-whole-year-long quest to recover from betatude,… Read more »

walawala
walawala
7 years ago

@YaReally Sentient et al. An update and some insights into frame…regaining hand and plate management. 28 year old plate who I started the thread about orbiter management came out while I was djing. I ignore her. She eventually walks over and pulls me onto the dance floor. Of course she’s all dressed up…orbiter not out. Amused mastery; ” so forward..people will talk”. Long story short I escalate push pull and at the end of the night say: “let’s get out of here”. Her: “I’m not going home with you tonite. If you want me to come over invite me to… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Softek Last night I completely enjoyed being in the one-on-one presence of a hot, young girl, without feeling any pressure at all. As I was heading over, I just had the thought, “Dude, what are you freaking out about so much? No one’s holding a gun to your head saying you have to have sex with her. Just go hang out and have a normal night.” And that’s what I did. Never would’ve thought my mind could be blown in such a seemingly mundane way. And this here is how things work when you pursue the Platinum Rule [do whatever… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

wala

So you, as the high value guy, set the rules and the girl complied? Is that right?

Huh….

PS – if you really want to push things with her and have her get crazy over you, out of the blue give her the treat of your company,, take her out and give her some beta from an alpha frame…. just once in a while… Keep the roller coaster going up AND down…

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

Sentinet re SofTek
A perfect example of not doing the hard work…

Maybe. Or maybe extreme pain avoidance, as in “avoid short term pain no matter how much more that creates in the long term”.

Either way, SofTek, this situation could cost you far more than you can believe. Get out. Before you wind up in prison, or permanently crippled, or dead.

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Anonymous reader

From my earlier post “The kind of actual uncomfortable, even dangerous change hard work is always missing…”

Uncomfortable – pain avoidance… Yup.

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago
kfg
kfg
7 years ago

@Softek: “.This is probably the absolute most stressful thing of the idea of breaking up with her, because even if I can get over it, I would be absolutely devastated if she killed herself.”

The Disciple: Master! We aren’t supposed to even touch women, and yet you took that woman up on your back and let her ride you like a donkey. Why did you do that?

The Master: I put her down again and left her back at the ford. Why are you still carrying her around?

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

@anonymous reader If a loser beta doesn’t make it through triage, doesn’t make it no less true about how to accept red pill and game. Tedious. Ya. do the work. “It’s clearly not a once-size fits all book, and while it’s 1990’s it’s more like hippy-dippy 1970’s stuff. It is not for the faint of heart. It is sidebar material for OMG’s. What don’t you understand about the fact that you can be OK with first stage relationships? You give this and she gives that? OMGs are on another plane with their 20 year old children raised right and their… Read more »

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