The Key Masters

keymaster

In last week’s comments Not Born This Morning dropped this comment in the last thread:

It has been said and it seems fairly well established as a presumed reality that “Women are the gate keepers to sex and men are the gate keepers to commitment”. This model of gender specific “gatekeeping” seems to be the most widely accepted model in the red pill community and the general culture accepts it readily. This model seems rational enough, it significantly forms our frame of understanding about gender dynamics upon which we base our interpretations of behavior & intents, and our decisions to act. But is it the best model to explain what is really going on? Could this model be inferior in that it fails to account for an underlying more fundamental motivator? Is there a more accurate explanation for women’s intents and behaviors? Could this model be potentially deceptive?

The sex side of this model is simple and easy to understand. It is very clear and specific to the fundamental biologic. It is inarguable, not negotiable. The primary drive motivating the sexual aspect is not political or social. It is biological. This is not the case with the commitment side. The commitment side is primary to the political and social realm. “Commitments” are always components of contracts written or otherwise.

To comprehend what I’m about to explain, we must first agree on the primary definition of commitment. As I understand it, a commitment is a pledge to do something, a proclamation to perform certain action (or inaction) within a specific context for the benefit of another usually in exchange for some consideration. In the sexual context women seek “commitment” from a man primarily for provisioning and sexual exclusivity. The man “commits” to the woman that he will abandon his freedom and not enter into sexual relations with other women. He pledges himself financially and sexually to her exclusively. Realistically, this form of “commitment” includes the man abandoning his options. If he becomes sexually involved with another woman, it is widely considered that he has “broken his commitment” and he is dishonored by her and society for “breaking the commitment”. But, has he really broken any commitment other than a self denigrating pledge to forgo his freedom and abandon his options? Since obviously the male imperative is polygamy and spreading his seed, then isn’t the imposition to “commit” in the first place really a dishonor of his sexuality and a dishonor to him? If so, isn’t “commitment” in this context nothing more than a form of enslavement?

So by saying men are the “gate keepers of commitment” aren’t we really saying that men are the “gatekeepers of their own enslavement”?

I’ve read this line of thought from various MGTOW hardliners in various iterations and I’ve even written a post on the concept of commitment  and what it does or doesn’t mean to a man. The idea is to equate committing to a woman with some irrational agreement to self-induced slavery. However, the problem most men have with commitment is that the old set of books has a social mandate for men to keep their word or honor an agreement. It’s what men do. Say what you mean and stick to it, but as with most every uniquely male custom, Honor among men has been one more useful distortion of the Feminine Imperative.

As I mentioned in the Paradox of Commitment, men don’t have nearly the fear of commitment our feminized social order would have us believe. Men aren’t “commit-o-phones” when it comes to military service or dedicating themselves to a business. These are the areas the women’s magazines conveniently overlook when it comes to comparing men’s commitment with committing to women in monogamy. I’m bringing this up because it’s important to see how men commit to things other than fidelity to a single woman.

If we’re going to equate monogamous fidelity to a woman with slavery we also need to see how other commitments can be viewed as being, or not being, slavery. Is the commitment of military service slavery? Particularly if you know have a pretty good idea of what to expect from that commitment? Are you volunteering for slavery if you start a business and become financially beholden to it?

From  the Paradox of Commitment:

You can even take marriage out of the equation; if I’m in a committed LTR with a GF and over the course of that relationship I realize that she’s not what I’m looking for (for any number of reasons, not just sex), even though she’s 100% faithfully committed to me and the LTR, should I then break that commitment? If I do, am I then being unethical for having broken that commitment irrespective of how I break it? Should the commitment to my own personal well being and future happiness be compromised by another commitment?

What’s my obligation; neglect myself in favor of a bad commitment or to the principle of commitment itself?

It’s my take that commitment ‘should’ be a function of genuine desire. Ideally, commitment should be to something one is so passionate about that the limiting of one’s own future opportunities that come from that commitment is an equitable, and mutually appreciated trade. This is, unfortunately, rarely the case for most people in any form of commitment because people, circumstance, opportunity and conditions are always in flux. A commitment that had been seen as equitable sacrifice at one time can become debilitating 5 years after it depending upon circumstance.

Under the old social contract, the idea that a man would compromise his sexual strategy to fulfill a woman’s (Hypergamy in the long term) had a presumed exchange – sexual access, parental investment, companionship, a good, supportive feminine role example for the kids, etc. – that made the commitment of marriage at least somewhat appealing, if not entirely equitable. I supposed a case could still be made that even under the old order of conventional gender roles and expectations men were still committing themselves to a downside bargain. But in our new, feminine-primary social order, with our broader communication, it’s certainly signing up for slavery of a sort in comparison to the options available being single.

A lot of guys think that by my advising men to spin plates and remain as non-exclusive as possible that its sole purpose is to free them up to indiscriminately bang as many women as possible. While sexual variety maybe an upside to non-exclusivity, there are many more freedoms and options that a non-exclusive man can invest himself in where committed men cannot, or wouldn’t even think to.

So yes, from a male sexual strategy perspective, and considering the terms of that commitment and consequences of breaking it are all glaringly apparent, signing up for that commitment might be assigning yourself to a kind of slavery. Under our present social conditions, staying single might be as good as it gets for men.

However, that said, there is still an undeniable, idealistic, hope that men can make the best of a marriage. Most men (see the 80% Beta men) still remarry in far greater margins than women, even after horrific divorces. We can attribute that to the sustainability of men’s sexual market value lasting longer than women’s, but the desire to want for a lasting monogamy is what I’m getting at. Even in light of the fact that women are hardwired for Hypergamy, and in light of women’s inability to appreciate the sacrifices men must make to facilitate their realities, men still, sooner or later, have a desire to lock down or otherwise wife-up a woman he idealizes. I have read the testimonies of men who will go to any length to stay in a marriage if even the outside hope of it improving exists.

I think this desire might be both a conditional and innate drive in men.

In Mrs. Hyde I quoted a study by Dr. Martie Haselton from Why is muscularity sexy? :

According to strategic pluralism theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.

It’s entirely possible that a man’s sexual strategy is the simple result of his adapting to his circumstance.

Under the old social order, prior to the upheaval of the sexual revolution and feminine social primacy, investing heavily in one’s mate made good sense if the guy wanted to procreate. As men, I think we still want to apply more value to our commitment in this respect. I think it gets back to the fallacy of relational equity, but because most Blue Pill men believe that there is value in their committing to a woman, and they falsely think that women have the capacity to appreciate it, we tend to build more into it as some kind of mutually understood relationship leverage.

Gatekeepers

Back before Roosh began making his necessities into virtues, he had a pretty good insight about women being “gatekeepers” of both sex and commitment:

A popular manosphere saying is that women are gatekeepers to sex and men are gatekeepers to commitment. I wish this was an absolute truth, but it’s not. As a collective, women are often gatekeepers to both sex and commitment. Most men reading right now can surely attest to their failed attempts to secure commitment from women they slept with, and if you poll the entire population of men, you may find that they are the initiators of monogamous relationships more often than women. It only makes sense for this to be true: it is way more damaging for a man to have his woman sleep with another man and get cuckolded than the other way around. The 0.5% of the population who are skilled players and have more say with commitment don’t put a dent into this common reality. As a sex, men have very little say in determining the relationship dynamic.

[…]It would be a nice fantasy for us men to believe that we have a say in relationships and sex. It’d be nice to think that our “alpha” behavior and our game determines how a relationship can proceed, but often it doesn’t. We’re just giving the girl what she has already decided on. Do you really think you’re selling televisions to customers who came into the store with the intent to buy bicycles? The girl who falls in love with us wanted to fall in love with us, the girl who had fun with us wanted to just have fun with us, and so on. And even when a girl wants a bicycle, she still wants a certain kind of bicycle. This is why game is a numbers game, because girls are incredibly picky even when they are sexually available. The horniest girl in the club who decided on having sex will still have her pick of the litter and opt to get the best that she can.

From the perspective of men using Game to secure some kind of commitment with a woman, I’d agree, it is a numbers game. But, in general, most men aren’t learning PUA/Game to settle into an LTR and most Red Pill aware men (should) understand the nature of women well enough to leverage Game if (ever) they do look for commitment.

Roosh was correct about men not really being gatekeepers of commitment though. I think there’s a definite want on the part of guys to believe that they have some sort of leverage in the ultimate scheme of things. The Feminine Imperative constantly conditions men to think that their commitment to a woman is something insanely valuable to women. Thus, we see shaming tactics designed to call men out for avoiding commitment irrespective of men’s reasons for wanting to take precautions. This has the effect of conditioning men to think that they are the gatekeepers of something valuable.

In a sense, commitment is something valuable to a woman, however, in the age of Open Hypergamy and Strong Independent Women®, the writing is on the wall for men with regard to the convenient need for that commitment at the end-game phase of a woman’s sexual market value. So yes, a man’s commitment to monogamy with a woman has inherent value, but men are hardly the gatekeepers of it when it is a woman who does the deciding as to whether any one guy’s commitment makes any difference to her.

So, we come to a question of comparative equity with regard to men “signing up for slavery” and how inherently valuable his commitment (as convenient as it’s needed) really is to a woman. I have no doubt there are several women reading this right now who are in “relationship limbo” with a guy they desperately want to commit to them in some official capacity. And no doubt they’ll drop a story in the comments personalizing it to be typical of men, but I would argue Roosh’s point that men are the initiators of monogamous relationships far more often than women. Ironically, commitment only has value to a woman when it’s denied to her by a man who’s SMV outclasses her own.

For obvious reasons, highly desirable women, women at the peak of their sexual market valuation, are always the least concerned with men’s capacity to commit. They largely have the luxury to be selective, but furthermore the time at which women are at their highest SMV is usually the point at which men are still building upon their own. Eventually, commitment only has an appreciable value to a woman when she is most in need of it; when her SMV is in decline.

I should also point out that men, the majority being Blue Pill Betas, are the most necessitous of a woman’s commitment when she is at her highest, his is an unproven commodity, and he appreciates the value of a woman’s commitment. Thus, most men look for a stable monogamy in their early to mid 20s, while more mature men who’ve had time to build their SMV into their mid to late thirties tend to be less concerned with monogamy. This is why we hear the constant drone of women bemoaning that highly valuable, supposedly peer-equitable men’s unwillingness to commit and settle down with women aging out of the sexual marketplace. Women are far less concerned with the commitment-readiness of young, unproven men who themselves would commit to even a women in the mid-range of her SMV.

At the end here, I think it’s time Red Pill men disabuse themselves of the idea that they are the ‘gatekeepers’ of commitment, and rather employ their internalized Red Pill awareness and Game to be the ‘key masters’ of women. While I have no doubt that commitment can be a carrot on the stick for some women, the problem really lies in how that commitment is in anyway valuable and balance that knowledge with the fact that commitment, once given, becomes valueless and taken for granted when it’s established. The fact that you’d commit to a woman isn’t something that carries a relationship, no matter how badly she wanted it from you before.

There really is no quid pro quo when it comes to commitment or value in believing you’re a gatekeeper of it.

Law 20
Do Not Commit to Anyone

It is the fool who always rushes to take sides. Do not commit to any side or cause but yourself. By maintaining your independence, you become the master of others – playing people against one another, making them pursue you.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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YaReally
3 years ago

@Sentient “Also it’s not my argument…😉 but don’t let strawmen and red herrings get in the way of internet warrior point totaling…” So clear it up. You have a habit of saying retarded stuff and then when called out on it saying “that’s not what I was saying” and just not following up. @Andy “Babies do change them…” Sure, for a few years in the NRE stage of having a new baby. Longer than that? I dunno, ask the single moms on Tinder, divorcing guys, cheating in marriages, etc lol Like, guys have this need to think that once the… Read more »

YaReally
3 years ago

@Rollo @Sentient Can you offer ANY reason why a girl would NOT be attracted to a Hypergamously better suited man? That goes against the very concept OF Hypergamy. Does Hypergamy just magically shut off once she’s found a high value guy? That goes against her constantly testing her captain to make sure he still has value and goes against her cheating or upgrading. Is she just out of the goodness of her heart going to avoid looking at potentially better options? Again that goes against Hypergamy. Does social media NOT present women with more potentially high-value options than pre-social media?… Read more »

kfg
kfg
3 years ago

” . . . can you even get the girls to leave their phones in a pile at the door at your bottle service events for the entire night?” I’m out on rural trails, miles out of town, nearly every day. I see <25 chippies out training for some 10k breast cancer awareness charity run or some such and most of them can't raise their eyes from their devices long enough to keep from running into a tree. And of course their music is often so loud that I can listen to it from 8 ft. behind them. Bicycle bells… Read more »

YaReally
3 years ago

Is it just that you guys REALLY want to hope that your daughters will be NAWALTs and resist all of this, the same way lots of Red Pill guys are still holding out hope that they’ll find the unicorn they can relax their burden of performance with? lol Or that it’s just too depressing to accept that the end of the traditional family life may be here? Like, you have to go against so much already ironclad thoroughly tested logic to go along with this shit and it’s not even field tested by the guy theorizing it lol How many… Read more »

YaReally
3 years ago

@kfg
“I find myself wondering why they’re out in the country, instead of on the track they had to pass right at the trail head. They’re certainly not out in the woods to be out in the woods. They never see or hear it.”

’cause they can take a selfie for their social media of them pretending to meditate on a tree trunk in a scenic area and title it “zen af (insert 3 nail painting emoticons)” and get validation from their followers.

…or maybe they’re hunting pokemon lol jk that trend is already dead.

Andy
Andy
3 years ago

Well, sounds like the only solution is surrogate motherhood. Get her to sign a surrogate mother agreement, and use that as your relationship contract. That’s what Christiano Ronaldo is doing. He has sole custody. I tried to link earlier, but the comment was lost. You can google it though.

Even then… Good luck getting the courts to uphold it if she was living with you and the kids. But I think that’s probably the only option at this point.

Sentient
Sentient
3 years ago

Yareally So clear it up. I refer you back to page 2… You have a habit of saying retarded stuff and then when called out on it saying “that’s not what I was saying” and just not following up. You have a habit of of too often partially reading posts, then posting dozens of hyper extrapolations, strawmen and red herrings and moving the goalposts… all with a side of juvenile internet snark and attempted denigration… for the pursuit of internet glory hole pleasure… so you should not be surprised when people don’t play along… 😉 ========== Bonus answers! Can you… Read more »

Glengarry
Glengarry
3 years ago

Krauser is legit. He has posted great detailed breakdowns of his dates/texting sessions not to mention all those +1 videos. That’s credible enough for me and more than a lot of others do. I haven’t even looked at his pay stuff, lol.

kfg
kfg
3 years ago

“That’s what Christiano Ronaldo is doing.” The mother was in a country other than his own (unfortunately the US). He needs to get the kid out of her country into his own as soon as possible. He can never come the US again. For that matter, he can never allow himself to be in the same country the mother is in if that country will hear her complaint. If he does, all bets are off. And his profession binds him to go where he is told. “Good luck getting the courts to uphold it if she was living with you… Read more »

YaReally
3 years ago

@Sentient “well attraction and ACTING on it are worlds apart… and not inconsistent.” Okay, so she’s going to develop self-control when, her entire life, she’s been taught to run with her emotions in the moment with no consequences and mostly endless rewards. Do people who spend their entire life building up bad habits often just voluntarily break them despite no change in incentive to do so and, again, rewards and cash & prizes from society if they keep that bad habit up? Is this something you want most men to bet their future, their finances, custody, and potentially jailtime on?… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
3 years ago

Christ, this again? @YaReally I get that you’re trying to avoid disinformation here, but if I were a newb who was listening to you I’d conclude that all relationships are hopeless so I might as well pump’n’dump or go MGTOW. I agree with your point that social media has made things difficult and isn’t going away, and that there’s not really anything as single person can do to get it out of a girl’s life, but there is such a thing as overemphasizing THAT point too. I don’t think anyone disagrees with you that social media is gonna be a… Read more »

scray
scray
3 years ago

@forge

I’d conclude that all relationships are hopeless so I might as well pump’n’dump or go MGTOW

comment image

hahah I keed, I keed.

But yeah…monogamous relationships are just stupid in 2016 U.S.A.

There really is no upside for a man who puts himself in that circumstance.

scray
scray
3 years ago

@forge

You say you want field testing of making monogamy work longterm in today’s world, while also saying that you’re trying to prevent men from being tricked into thinking it’s possible, which would prevent said field testing.

Monogamy can work….for short durations….maybe like 3-7 years MAXIMUM.

Women are designed to be monogamous for around that time period anyway, almost regardless of what you do…..

Andy
Andy
3 years ago

“The best bet for American men is to find a surrogate mother in the Philippines, but that can change at any moment. Retroactively.”

Scray is right. It’s over.

Blaximus
Blaximus
3 years ago

Lol.

It’s all over.

Fold up your dicks and go home.

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
3 years ago

@Forge

Anyone that criticizes the order of the day is derided, which reminds me…….

@YaReally

So how’s anyone supposed to make friends in all this shit? Do guys just pass broads around? How do I adapt AND get a shot at making the bitch look stupid?

redlight
redlight
3 years ago

thanks to Instagram for a better clip of the end of the performance

https://instagram.com/p/BJyBKmJAbKi/

if your kids are on social media they see stuff like this EVERY single day

YaReally
3 years ago

@Forge the Sky “I get that you’re trying to avoid disinformation here, but if I were a newb who was listening to you I’d conclude that all relationships are hopeless so I might as well pump’n’dump or go MGTOW.” Good. That’s a start. Let’s get them to stop thinking they’re going to find the NAWALT unicorn and live happily ever after when the field evidence shows that they’re probably NOT going to, so they’re less inclined to sign legal marriage contracts and we can start coming up with better approaches that don’t involve guys ending up divorce-raped and living out… Read more »

Klem
Klem
3 years ago

@Forge For me, yareally just explains how the dynamics changed in 2016, and if you have a monoLTR nowadays, you have to be aware of it. You can still choose to have one of course, but just be aware of the risks. Ultimately, it all depends on what you want out of life, that’s why I agree with Scray that BD’s Alpha 2.0 stuff is the best road map we currently have. BD is not telling everyone to not have monoLTR, just that if your goal in life is to maximise HAPPINESS and minimize DRAMA, then monoLTR are going to… Read more »

Andy
Andy
3 years ago

“Fold up your dicks and go home.”

lol, Seriously though, I probably would consider moving to southeast asia if I was single and wanted kids at this point. The food is so good out there.

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
3 years ago

I’ve been reading Black Dragon the past couple days (ok, a bit of work too). I like his model of open LTR

Sentient
Sentient
3 years ago

Yareally Okay, so she’s going to develop self-control when, her entire life, she’s been taught to run with her emotions in the moment with no consequences and mostly endless rewards doesn’t the sluttiest bar slut display self control when she tells you she has to go to the bathroom? So then you agree that if you slip up and stop passing her tests, she becomes more likely to stray More likely is a probability not a certainty… and it’s not immediate. In what way is “be alpha 24/7 for the rest of your life, bro” not an accurate summary of… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
3 years ago

http://cdn0.dailydot.com/uploaded/images/original/2014/4/2/Rr3PHgA.jpg

How do you like those apples?

Sinatra always said there were two types of women – those who wanted to tell their friends they slept with Sinatra, and those who wanted to tell their friends they turned down Sinatra…

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
3 years ago

I mean, maybe some of the difficulty I’m having is that I have a hard time empathizing with guys who want oldschool monogamy currently. Like, I GET that it could be a good arrangement in the right circumstance but I don’t think it’s much worth thinking about. Since the time for that has passed. Oh well. I could see non-exclusively committing to a girl in the future – but it would be sort of on a year-by-year basis rather than a lifelong basis. Invest enough that if she has a shitty few months you’re not immediately out the door but… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
3 years ago

@YaReally

So. Hefner method huh? I don’t suppose you got a link, sensei?

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
3 years ago

@Sentient Sinatra always said there were two types of women – those who wanted to tell their friends they slept with Sinatra, and those who wanted to tell their friends they turned down Sinatra… Not really the point you were making, but this illustrates something that I think a lot of men have a hard time understanding about the female sexual nature. I think that women’s sex instincts are just as large and all-encompassing as a man’s. But their sex DRIVES – that is, desire to pursue and have sex – aren’t. The difference is made up in that, for… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
3 years ago

Forge

The problem is, this does kinda fuck the kids over….in cultures where there is no marriage, often the mother’s male relatives sort of play the ‘father’ role.

Yeah this culture doesn’t really exist… see what is happening daily in Detroit, Chicago, Camden, Baton Rouge etc. single moms… single moms… single moms…

Guys have an aversion to being cuckolds…

YaReally
3 years ago

@Klem “For me, yareally just explains how the dynamics changed in 2016, and if you have a monoLTR nowadays, you have to be aware of it. You can still choose to have one of course, but just be aware of the risks.” This. Why is warning guys that things have changed and they have to keep their shit tighter or consider alternative approaches/lifestyles entirely if they don’t think they can guarantee she won’t have an unhaaappy day in her life in this current culture where she’s unhappy when you take away her iphone for a few hours, controversial? How is… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
3 years ago

Forge

Exactly… good amplification… women have feral natures, but they don’t act as ferally as man boys want to believe. And there are hard wired reasons behind that… that does not also mean they can’t or won’t ever act on it either… But ALL THE TIME is not the right time… LOL

You’ve had LTR’s no? How many times have you come back from using the bathroom on a dinner date and found your girl blowing the owner of the restaurant?

YaReally
3 years ago

@Sentient If that chick has all this magic self control, why did she accept ANY invite/message/interaction from Franco at ALL? Because he projects high-value from afar and she instinctively HAS to find out if he’s actually high-value or not. He failed her tests so she didn’t cheat. If she has all this self control, she wouldn’t have even opened his message or texted him back. But her hindbrain HAS to find out if Franco is going to be high-value like he’s supposed to be, incase she should trade up. Thanks for proving my point lol Loading...

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
3 years ago

@YaReally

So once I actually “get it”, I’d make the logical decision that reality is what it is, and so wrt women, I’d realize that traditional monogamy is a DLV.

I still have a hard time wrapping my head around that. I STILL get so hung up on just one chick at a time or many, singularly in rapid succession. Like a filter that says “Bitch running chick game, deploy ignore and score” doesn’t go off….

So how do I run that alternative strategy? How do I pLTR?

Klem
Klem
3 years ago

@yareally

I really think that the main thing left to figure out is how to have kids in an oLTR

“Agreed, it would be nice to discuss it with the monogamy/marriage/commitment/parenting crowd”

I would REALLY like to ask this crowd how having the mom or dad having one night every 2 weeks “out with friends” would affect the kid, if you keep it on the dl until he/she is old enough to understand.

Blaximus
Blaximus
3 years ago

*sigh*

Do not get married.

Don’t flagellate the deceased equine any further.

Why the need to dispense 50,000 reasons?

If you can’t drive well, stay OUT of the Indy 500.

Lol…..

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
3 years ago

@Klem

“I would REALLY like to ask this crowd how having the mom or dad having one night every 2 weeks “out with friends” would affect the kid, if you keep it on the dl until he/she is old enough to understand.”

Now now, let’s ask the questions that DON’T involve bottoms up submission from the male in that equation first. Don’t you think?

Klem
Klem
3 years ago

@Blax

“If you can’t drive well, stay OUT of the Indy 500.”
The problem is that every guy THINKS they drive like a F1 pilot! Isnt there a stat somewhere that like 90% of guys think they drive better than other people? lol

A more accurate statement would be “car nowadays are not as reliable as before, and have a high chance of blowing you to pieces, EVEN if you are an excellent driver”

kfg
kfg
3 years ago

@Blax:

It isn’t a question of driving the Indy 500. It’s a question of driving the 2017 Indy 500 in a 1940s Novi roadster, with a bomb strapped to the engine that every official, and every other driver in the race, has a button that will set it off.

Blaximus
Blaximus
3 years ago

@ Klem ” A more accurate statement would be “car nowadays are not as reliable as before, and have a high chance of blowing you to pieces, EVEN if you are an excellent driver””. Lol. Nah. A car is a car, is a car. The basics have not changed all that much. The knowledge needed to keep a 2016 Dodge Charger is different than a 1969 Dodge Charger, but the basic principles are the same as I was taught as a teen: Fire, Gas and Air. Computers or not, basic elements are exactly the same from a Ford Fiesta to… Read more »

scray
scray
3 years ago

@ya@all Why not just tell them “look, she’s probably going to bail at 3-7 years, they call it the 7 year itch for a reason and in the old days social pressure etc would keep her there I mean what’s funny is that people think that if there can be no monogamy you can’t just be with someone forever or love someone or whatever. like lol. she’ll remain faithful for x amount of time and then fuck some other guy. but i mean….. that doesn’t mean she’s not going to come back to you eventually or that you and her… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
3 years ago

Re: Credit where credit is due. @Blax – Really interesting real world experiment. Thanks, and well told too. @Hollenhound – Perhaps the most succinct precis of our social dilemma I’ve read. I think what scares me most is how many on “the right” don’t understand the vast cultural and social change that has already occurred. I’ve often pointed out how pickles cannot become cucumbers again, and our society is a pickle for sure… Fascinating reading. Puerarchy. Yep. It’s already happening. You guys do see the studies showing lower levels of sex for the current generation. But what you never see… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
3 years ago

@ scrib

thanks bruv

Btw, you know how you eat an Elephant? One bite at a time.

Keep working man. That’s the only way to get where you want to be!!!!

kfg
kfg
3 years ago

“One of the things that may not be obvious is how stressful this is on Riley. Even as Elayna takes watches, he basically doesn’t get to sleep at all when it’s blowing or they are in weather seas.”

And that is exactly why I abandoned the idea of the cruising life with ex #2.

othergrain
othergrain
3 years ago

Great point by forget, here: “I also think that, if you don’t try to force yourself to stay in an LTR ‘for the children’ or ‘for the vows/virtue/whatever’ waaay past when it’s a good relationship, there will tend to be a lot less frustration, hurt, and anger between the mother and father when the breakup happens – and so there’s a better chance you’ll still be amicable with each other and more willing to share parenting (vs. a woman who had to endure an excruciating betaization process for YEARS and ends up hating the dude’s guts for ‘forcing’ her to… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
3 years ago

Lol, quote from FORGE, damn phone

Blaximus
Blaximus
3 years ago

@ Sentient @ YaReally @ anybody else that’s interested….lol The thing is, in the big debate(s), both Sentient and YaReally are correct. Hence, the disagreement will never end because both are coming from different perspectives. My little experiment, which will continue because I find it interesting, came about from the previous discussion about girls giving up their social media. YaReally was explaining how pervasive soc. med. was. I figured it was pervasive, but not that important in the bigger picture. True, my experiment is not scientific, and is only representative or a tiny sample size, non-double blind purely to see… Read more »

Colbert
Colbert
3 years ago

@ Sentient, Enjoyed the video of James getting blown out of sets and the longer one where he talks about the 6 stages of growth. It’s good to see him fail but still having fun doing it, which is the point of all of it anyway, as one moves along the “arc of growth”. Becoming a better version of yourself and establishing a positive masculine identity should be the primary goal and getting some tail in the process should be a by-product since it’s not really about getting laid but improving yourself overall. Thanks for posting those vids. @ YaReally,… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
3 years ago

again, just for the hell of it

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7THwjprN60&w=640&h=360%5D

Colbert
Colbert
3 years ago

Or is it a PhD?

kfg
kfg
3 years ago

” . . . why even try to deal with women at all?”

I’m gonna need more eggs.

SJF
SJF
3 years ago

@All You guys are great and you are all right from an opinion standpoint. Random disjointed thoughts ( I’ve been out in the field a lot and can’t assemble the written word so well right now.) YaReally: “Long term monogamy under a legal contract is impossible (or so unrealistic that it’s close to impossible) in today’s world. But that doesn’t mean LTRs of other natures (pLTR, mLTR, oLTR, unmarried, etc) are impossible to make work. I’d like to have some kind of discussion about alternative options but all I’m seeing is “ehh, I made it work with my 70yo wife,… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
3 years ago

@ DisgruntledEartling ” I substituted hi-tech shit with horses and isolation on a farm. We’ll see in the next 20 years if it made a difference.” Funny you should mention this. Every year ( I try for a couple of times ) I take my now 16 year old to the family’s resident horseman ( a cousin ) and she spends days riding. She loves the horses and I have to pry her away from them sometimes. People have different thoughts on child raising. I don’t subscribe to the common notion lately, that having kids is some kind of uncontrollable… Read more »

SJF
SJF
3 years ago

Mike Pence: “You can’t fake good kids.” My wife and I went out to dinner with my 21 y.o. son today at his college. He’s an eager, good. well-raised child. His sub-comms: “No big deal, I got this.” We were charged up with energy. After 21 years of investing energy. With no expectations of outcome… “I see what some other folks call parenting. I wish them luck with that. Not everyone has a clue what it means to parent a child. “ Yep. Good luck with that. Relying on luck rather than mastery is a fools game. There is risk… Read more »

Colbert
Colbert
3 years ago

@ SJF, “I was thinking about a field report of this last two weeks in which my relationship game is improving/peaking, but the feeling and the emotion of the peak experience is fading fast, I have a good memory and told it to myself a few times and told it to two red pill trusting guy friends, so I’m good and shot my wad and don’t need to DHV here. And it involved my wife offering a quickie on the far side of the golf course during the couples Tournament in a nice clean spacious locked bathroom. Desire.” Good for… Read more »

SJF
SJF
3 years ago

@Colbert

comment image

SJF
SJF
3 years ago

Question for YaReally: Do you really need to be your brother’s keeper? (help all guys out including the bottom 80% trying to be masters of their sexual strategy?). Do you really want someone clinging to your pant leg? Lyrics to the Tragically Hip’s Nautical Disaster: I had this dream where I relished the fray and the screaming filled my head all day. It was as though I had been spit here, Settled in, Into the pocket of a lighthouse on some rocky socket, Off the coast of France, dear. One afternoon, Four thousand men died in the water here and… Read more »

Höllenhund
3 years ago

I get that you’re trying to avoid disinformation here, but if I were a newb who was listening to you I’d conclude that all relationships are hopeless so I might as well pump’n’dump or go MGTOW. I agree with your point that social media has made things difficult and isn’t going away, and that there’s not really anything as single person can do to get it out of a girl’s life, but there is such a thing as overemphasizing THAT point too. I don’t think anyone disagrees with you that social media is gonna be a part of any girl’s… Read more »

Höllenhund
3 years ago

That reality is only depressing because we don’t have an alternate option for them yet. If we had plans that would hold up in 2016+, we would just laugh at the outdated concept of legally tying yourself to a woman or expecting her to be monogamous for 40+ years with all these options around her and basing your life plans around that lopsided gamble. The reason no acceptable alternate option exists is because history has no track record of non-monogamous communities ever building a prosperous society most Western people take for granted today. Until very recently, monogamous patriarchy was the… Read more »

Höllenhund
3 years ago

They just hope things will work out. This is DAMAGING to men. Why don’t more people care about preventing future divorce-rapees and guys locked into deadbedrooms and shit? Why is suggesting that we look at alternative plans that DON’T involve legally noosing yourself so controversial or such a bothersome topic? It’s because our entire society is built on the doctrine of male disposability. Even many so-called red pill men, mostly the Christian ones, believe in it. According to this idea, men have no wombs, therefore they are practially worthless, therefore they are the ones who have to take risks in… Read more »

Höllenhund
3 years ago

Why not just accept that and quit bullshitting guys to keep the feelgood happy ending dream alive? Why not just tell them “look, she’s probably going to bail at 3-7 years, they call it the 7 year itch for a reason and in the old days social pressure etc would keep her there but now she’ll be encouraged to leave you, so accept that from the start and protect yourself by not getting legally married and by mentally learning to how handle that situation and deal with her orbiters and social media in a realistic way (ie – not cutting… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
3 years ago

@SJF

“Question for YaReally: Do you really need to be your brother’s keeper? (help all guys out including the bottom 80% trying to be masters of their sexual strategy?).”

So sex and fulfilling relationships are for people on the upper 20% only?
I suppose you don’t have to be happy to find some fat bitch to impregnate. But I don’t want to, so I appreciate YaReally’s idealism.

benfromtexas
benfromtexas
3 years ago

I just got time to read this post. It’s a good one. Oh, in the comments thread, @YaReally mentioned the Kobayashi Maru for the situation men face now. I’m stealing that man, because it’s the best way to snap my Blue Pill friends from their prison. All nerds know of the impossible Star Fleet Academy mission. Thanks! 👍

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
3 years ago

@Blaximus “I am a FIRM believer in fathers having an active role with their children. I fed, burped and changed both my daughters often. I never left everything to my wife. When you do that, you cannot complain about the outcome.” Yeah this. I always did this with both girls. The younger one is a ‘problem stubborn’ one and I’m the one that can get her out of her funk and finally crack a smile – I just keep repeating the same question (“Do you want to go to the museum? – No”) until she realizes I’m not going to… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
3 years ago

Micro FR
Out with another prospect. Her last night, another tonight, another some time next week, and one more hopefully coming together next week… I have no intention of another mLTR; I just hope this old body doesn’t let me down in the next 20 years.

She asks how many other women I’m dating/seeing and I answer “what, today? 4 I think. In all 42 this week” – she giggles, jokes about it, and I change the subject…

Got to thank yareally and blackdragon for this. This shit works.

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
3 years ago

@Blaximus
“This is the same girl that was born premature, weighing in at just under 2 pounds.”
Funny I know a girl like this – I’ve known her since she was about 6 . I think she’s 17 now. Oh my, do they ever catch up! She drives, is socially out-going and really blossoming. Her parents are great too.

redlight
redlight
3 years ago

Meeting movie stars and quickies with the wife is fine but you guys have to understand that 2016 is mostly finished. This morning in a work meeting the two women were fucking the most alpha, when a more alpha walked by the room, and the two cows immediately left to chase him down. I remarked that it was not very polite, but was shot down by a white knight who said our alpha had not lifted enough. The others disagreed say it was lack of subcomms, or not stoic enough, or need more SGM. Our alpha then said “Zero fucks… Read more »

YaReally
3 years ago

@othergrain “And that goes double for if you enter the relationship understanding that it could be temporary so there’s less shock, butthurt, and anger when the blow falls.” Exact same reason you handle a LSNFTE the same way, or any break up really. With those situations, the stakes are only ” maybe getting to fuck her again”, with marriage (or a LTR with kids), the stakes are “alimony, house, child support, custody, etc.”” This is what I’m trying to get across. Instead of telling guys “ehh, trust me, an old guy who’s not legal-contract-marrying mono-LTRing 2016 girls, legal-contract-married monogamy can… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
3 years ago

Scray: “if a woman leaves you because she’s grown bored or whatever….if you just focus on doing you for awhile and keep her in your life but at a distance…when she comes back, she’ll remember why she liked you in the first place. the pair-bonding people, IMO, are mostly right…and the nihilist brave new world everyone fuck everyone people are wrong. but….i mean….sometimes what really cements a real bond is testing it against other people and other things and other flavors of the day.” Yes! See, I understand why people are so doom and gloom about this. It’s a change… Read more »

YaReally
3 years ago

@Forge the Sky “Sometimes people ACTUALLY FEEL like being monogamous. I know some people like that. They should be monogamous. I don’t see why anyone else should try to fit themselves to that mold though.” Sure they should. Absolutely. They should just understand how monogamy stacks the deck against them (as I cover in my pLTR breakdown of why monogamy is broken in 2014, covering stuff like lack of dread, less reason for the guy to keep his charisma up, harder to keep an abundant “I can walk away from this girl if I’m not enjoying the relationship anymore” mindset,… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
3 years ago

@Blaximus “This is the same girl that was born premature, weighing in at just under 2 pounds. I went to the hospital every, single,day of the 2.5 months that she was there in an incubator, and took her out with all of her monitors and IV’s attached and talked to her. She would open her eyes and smile at me, even laughed.” I was born 6 weeks premature. I could fit in the palm of my fathers hand. My parents were both in medical school at the time, but they managed to ensure one of them was there in the… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
3 years ago

Southern dude Thanks for the response, perhaps i need more experience before starting this kind of relationship. If you are going to go into a legally binding agreement, you need to know the terms beforehand, and unfortunately the “terms” of marriage 2.0 are hidden from you to a large extent. The second set of books, as Rollo calls it. Eyes wide open, dude. I saw someone was asking about debt, she doesn’t have any, scholarship for college paid most of it, and parents did the rest. Good. Very good. The scholarship indicates average to above average intelligence and a future-time… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
3 years ago

@YaReally Yeah, I wasn’t trying to imply otherwise. My point was just how the ghost of monogamy is creating a lot of strife and confusion for people. Here’s a girl who doesn’t even really WANT to be monogamous MUCH LESS legally married at this point, and yet she’s trying to force herself to pretend because everyone around her is pushing her towards it. Her parents want grandkids and wouldn’t be able to deal w the thought that their little girl wants to bang non-husbands, her friends think engagements and marriage is SO ROMANTIC and great gossip and then they get… Read more »

Andy
Andy
3 years ago

“Meanwhile if you’re NOT legally married, maybe the dread of you having an easier time walking away will help prevent the 7-year itch. Maybe sending her on a couple lame Tinder dates will help prevent it. Maybe dumping her at the 5 year mark and going full ghost mode on her for a few months so she really appreciates you and what she had with you, will help prevent it. Maybe having girls on the side that can replace her will help prevent it. Maybe a million other things would be better than the path guys are currently being sent… Read more »

redlight
redlight
3 years ago

This has already been viewed 263 times (and the count will climb), “show your tits” at an Amy show

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCZceDUx4bQ&sns=em

Shaming 101

Höllenhund
3 years ago

And you, Rollo, Blax, maybe even myself etc will probably be dead in under 50 years, when guys are dealing with an ENTIRELY different world and social conditioning than you grew up in. The stuff you’re advising will seem as silly to them as recommending being a Nice Guy seems to us, or as silly as “asking her father for permission to court his daughter and waiting till marriage to have sex” seems to anyone now. There’s a chance to, while you guys are still alive and can offer “but what about this, have you considered this angle that we’ve… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
3 years ago

I wonder how many books we could fill just grabbing all the comments from the archives….that would be a strange sort of book!

kfg
kfg
3 years ago

Books have a way of sitting there on the shelf, or coffee table, giving continuous reminder of their existence, and hence their contents.

Even when the power goes off.

When you give a man a book, he must take it in his hands and do something with it. This alone builds neural pathways that transferring a file cannot do.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
3 years ago

Reading books has a positive effect on longevity.
Mangan has a comment here:
roguehealthandfitness.com/book-readers-live-longer/

Study abstract here
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27471129

rugby11
rugby11
3 years ago

“From the perspective of men using Game to secure some kind of commitment with a woman, I’d agree, it is a numbers game. But, in general, most men aren’t learning PUA/Game to settle into an LTR and most Red Pill aware men (should) understand the nature of women well enough to leverage Game if (ever) they do look for commitment.” https://twitter.com/CasualSexProj/status/727906123118972928 “So, we come to a question of comparative equity with regard to men “signing up for slavery” and how inherently valuable his commitment (as convenient as it’s needed) really is to a woman. I have no doubt there are… Read more »

Max
Max
9 months ago

I liked it.

I liked your Law 20 even more.

Let “Commitment ” come to you. Don’t ask for it.

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