Losing My Religion

Losing

In the interests of full disclosure, I’ll admit I’ve had this post in my drafts folder for some time now. As always, standard caveats apply with regard to my policy on posts about religion, politics, and socioeconomics. I don’t delve into the particulars of these subjects, but I will dissect how they coincide with intersexual dynamics.

It’s no secret that I’ve been a regular follower of Dalrock’s blog for over five years now. Along with Dal I also consider Donalgraeme and a few other bloggers in the ‘Christo-Manosphere’ Red Pill colleagues if not friends. I’ve always held Dalrock as a sort of Red Pill brother since both our blogs came up around the same time. I’ve quoted and credited him in both my books.

I do so because there was a time I considered pursuing a path in my writing that would follow the same Red Pill critique of religion, (Christianity for Dal) at least in some occasional sense. After reading Dalrock’s very insightful early posts I decided against it. Dal has earned the respect of the manosphere for his Red Pill lens of contemporary Christianity for good reason – he’s a consummate statistician and researcher, and he’s what I’d call “embedded” well within modern (I presume mostly evangelical) church culture. He does it better than I could hope to do that part of the manosphere justice.

I never go into any detail about my own faith for a couple of reasons, the first being it’s only peripherally relevant in my writing. Secondly, it’s always been my position that the Red Pill needs to remain fundamentally areligious and apolitical. That said, I am familiar enough with ‘Churchian’ culture and the psycho-social side of mainstream religion to understand it through my own Red Pill lens.

When I analyze Red Pill principles within social contexts I always have a hard time with religion. It grates on me because I’m of the opinion that one’s religious leanings, one’s interaction with existence and life, one’s consideration of the spiritual, ought to be something personal and private if it’s in anyway genuine. As such, and for some, it can be a source of real vulnerability and exploitation which is really nothing new to anyone. It’s one thing to be even agnostic and trapped in a Blue Pill world, but it’s quite another to have been raised to adulthood in a religious context and coming to terms with having some very deep ego-investments shattered by a new Red Pill awareness.

If you ask anyone steeped in the Blue Pill conditioning of the Feminine Imperative about how this exploitation operates in an intersexual context you’ll likely get the standard answer that religion is largely a “social construct designed to maintain the Patriarchy.” And I have no doubt that in a Judeo-Christian sense this was likely the case for millennia. I won’t dig into how much of this had the latent purpose of controlling for Hypergamy in this post, but in the generations since the sexual revolution and the rise of feminine social primacy this maintaining the Patriarchy is a failing distraction on the part of the Feminine Imperative.

Creating Religion in the Image of the Feminine Imperative

For the past five generations, there has been a concerted re-engineering of religion (and not just limited to Christianity) to better suit the ends of the Feminine Imperative. Just as men are sold the idealism of the old set of books while living within the social context that confounds them, religion has been coopted by the feminine. The old books religion has either been replaced wholesale by a feminine-interpreted, feminine-directed religion that places women as its highest authority, or it’s been restructured and rewritten to serve the same feminine-primary objectives.

For going on six years now, Dalrock has masterfully documented and rightly criticized these shifts in Christianity. Although I’m focusing on western Christiainty here, this re-engineering of modern religion is not limited to just Christianity. A Red Pill perspective reveals a lot of uncomfortable truths, one of these is how well the Feminine Imperative has succeeded in supplanting any and all masculine influence in religion.

I expect there will be female critics who’ll cite that, in most of church culture, it’s still predominantly men who control churches and religious organizations, but in the era of feminine social primacy, it’s not who executes the control, but whose beliefs control the executors. Pair this with the commodification of religion and we can see the spheres of true feminine control and feminine-primary purpose.

After almost six years of following the religious aspects of the Red Pill, I think it’s high time men acknowledge that modern Christian culture simply does not have men’s best interests as part of its doctrine anymore. Christianity, in particular, is by women, for women – if not directly executed by women, though even that is changing.

Church culture is now openly hostile towards any expression of conventional masculinity that doesn’t directly benefit women and actively conditions men to be serviceable, gender-loathing Betas. The feminist narrative of “toxic masculinity” has entirely replaced any semblance of what traditional masculinity or manhood once was to the church. Any hint of a masculinity not entirely beholden to a now feminine-primary purpose is not only feared, but shamed with feminine-interpreted aspersions of faith.

I recently read a study that our current generation is the least religious in history and I think as far as men are concerned much of that disdain for religion is attributable to a church culture that constantly and openly ridicules and debases any male-specific endeavors or anything characteristic of conventional masculinity. It’s no secret in today’s church franchisement that reaching out to, and retaining the interests of, men is at its most difficult.

Again, this is attributable to a generation of feminized men being raised into a church culture, and eventual church leadership, that has been taught to prioritize and identify with the feminine and reinforced with articles of faith now defined by the Feminine Imperative. The modern church has trouble reaching men because the church no longer has a grasp of what it means to be ‘men’.

To be clear, that’s not an indictment of the genuine faith itself, but rather a fairly measured observation of the way a feminine-primary church culture has shaped that faith. In the future, any man with a marginal capacity for critical thought will avoid the contemporary Christian church and religion for the obvious misandry it espouses; the only religious men you will find will be those raised into a life of religiously motivated Beta servitude – or those dragged to the feminine-directed church by wives who hold authoritative ‘headship’ in their relationships.

And even in what some consider to be pro-masculine or “macho” churches, we still find the Paper Alpha leaders preach from a mindset that defers wholesale to the feminine’s “Godly perfection” as they attempt to AMOG other male member to greater devotion to qualifying for, and identifying with, the feminine influence that pervades their church.

Religious men will be synonymous with a Beta mindset.

It’s gotten to a point where it’s better to look after your self-interests and repent of the sin later than commit to an institution that openly seeks to indenture you. I realize that might be anathema to the more determined religious man, but just understand that this is the pragmatic, deductive future that the contemporary, western-feminized church is presenting to men. The social contract of marriage from a religious perspective has shifted into the ultimate leap of faith for men. They literally risk everything in marriage – child custody, sexual access, any expectation of true, male authority or respect, long-term financial prospects, etc. – but this leap of faith comes with a metaphysical price tag.

Men declining to participate in faith-based marriage decline an aspect of a faith reset to serve women; women who are held as a higher order of sinless being than men by this new church. For the agnostic or areligious man, discarding a Blue Pill social conditioning for a Red Pill awareness is a difficult task, but for men raised to believe that their only doctrinally approved path to sex with a woman is abstinence until marriage, that man’s only hope is to accept his fate and stay the Beta a feminized church has conditioned him to be.

And once he gets to marriage and his approved expression of his sexuality, the “Christian” man finds that the feminized church, even the male elders, expect endless qualifications to women and his wife’s unceasing appeasement in exchange for that approved sex. It’s a tail-chasing that holds men to the old books social order expectations while absolving women of all accountability and expecting him to also make concessions for a new (feminized) social order that’s ensaturated the church.

SeventiesJason from Dalrock’s blog:

And then we have “Christian marriage” divorce rates which are only a few paltry percentage points lower than the secular world……..men like Chandler will blame “men” for not leading, not being ‘holy’ enough, not bold n’ biblical enough, not going to bed exhausted every night….and a pile of other excuses for why she “had no choice” but to end the marriage.

We have a whole cottage industry of ‘christian counseling’ and self-help books, usually written for and by women. We have conferences, TV channels, broadcast networks, podcasts, radio stations, outreach, plenty of churches in this country……..the Internet. A ton of resources. Books……every pastor great and small today is “working on” or has written a book.

How on earth did the early church survive under the penalty of death? Persecution. Seclusion, and outright shunning? How did it grow? How did it survive?

We are told over and over by pastors that “God has an amazing plan for your life!” and then to sell men in the world this ‘churchian’ ploy that you are somehow not as holy, balanced, ready, equipped, or mature to handle this amazing plan….ah, but your wife to be is! The unspoken consolation prize is “but…..hey, you get to have sex….and that’s the only thing men need or think about and want!”

That seems to be given begrudgingly today (in my men’s group…..goodness, so many of the married guys complain that their wives never want sex)

How did the early church turn the world upside down? All God did was send a few men, and they made it happen. We have so many tools today…..and we’re “helpless” and we tend to think a “building program” will help everything and if we let the men fix things on the property they will feel “useful”

For over five generations now, the modern church has become a Beta farm existing only to produce the same masculinity-confused men that the secular world has perfected today. In our idealism I think too many (even well-meaning Red Pill) men believe that the church is some insulation against the worst of the Feminine Imperative when it is in fact an institution that produces the same men we hope to free from the Matrix.

Dean Abbot had an excellent post about this dynamic in his critique of another post by Mark Braivo:

In spite of what you might hear in the media about how terrible and retrograde evangelicals are, the entire movement, even the “conservative” end is thoroughly feminized.

The central Christian teaching that ALL people are sinners gets glossed over. Instead, the notion that men are somehow worse by nature than women is everywhere, sometimes stated overtly, often in the subtext.

At the same time, women are elevated to a position of moral and spiritual superiority. Women’s sin is often excused in light of a man’s failings. I remember hearing a very well known evangelical leader tell a story about how his wife freaked out and started smashing all their dishes. What was his point? That she did this because he had been neglecting her. See, she is not an adult beholden to practice self-control, but rather an innocent, sweet victim driven to outlandish behavior by his shortcomings.

“Toxic masculinity”, any masculinity inconvenient to a feminine-correct purpose, is a sin both actively and retroactively in today’s church.

With every successive generation of Beta pastors that are produced by this farm you get more and more men whose only experience of that religion is one of servile deference to a faith that’s been fundamentally altered to the utility of women and feminine-primacy. Women love to complain that it’s largely men who do the preaching and decision making in church, but what they ignore is that these men are the developed implements of the Feminine Imperative.

I will wager that in the next 10 years Christianity will be unrecognizable from its prior tenets of well defined conventional masculinity and the faith itself will expressly be centered on deference to the feminine.

Culture Informs Faith

I’ve had several critics tell me that the problem with the modern church is really one of its culture and should be considered apart from the ‘genuine’ faith, however it is church culture that ultimately informs and restructures doctrine and articles of faith. When that culture is informed by the Feminine Imperative, open Christian feminists, and a feminine influence posing as doctrinally sound egalitarianism, this fundamentally recreates an old order religion in the image of a new order, female-primary, imperative.

This and endless variations of the feminization of religion across every denomination and sect is why contemporary religion is openly hostile to any semblance of conventional masculinity. Church is no place for a single man and is just a formality for the man married to a religious woman at this point in time. All considerations of faith aside, I cannot fathom an adult man with any self-respect finding anything attractive about the modern church. Either there is nothing for him there or he is despised and denigrated, openly in a faith altering way or discreetly in resentment, or in pandering ridicule of his juvenilized maleness.

I don’t type this without a sincere sense of what’s been lost, particularly for men genuinely seeking existential answers for himself. My observations here will undoubtedly be thought of as some attack on a genuine faith, but my issue here isn’t with religion per se, but rather the thoroughness with which the Feminine Imperative has either subverted wholesale or covertly influenced really all modern religion.

Yes, I realize that faith is something personal that should be set apart from churchy social influence, but the culture is a manifestation of the doctrine and collective belief system. That culture ultimately modifies and informs the faith itself, thus with every successive generation that social influence becomes an article of the faith for the next.

Better to laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints, especially when the ‘saints’ are the priestesses of the Feminine Imperative.

The Red Pill lens in today’s church is a scary prospect.

Another commenter, The Question, had a good comment about this:

You’re absolutely right about the state of the Church in the West.

What makes it so dangerous for a Blue Pill man is that it is ground-zero for girls entering the epiphany phase. The single men who remain in the church are the ones will be pressured to fulfill their role in that strategy and will be treated with hostility if they don’t. I personally anticipate a renewed church “man up” campaign somewhere in the near future as the next wave of twenty-somethings near 30 and beyond.

I’d say the only reason to go is to meet cute single young women and that’s if the church actually has them and its theology isn’t wholly intolerable. College town churches like mine have quite a few young single ladies which is why I go.

I will admit, putting aside conscience and morality, the modern (‘Relevant’) church would be a veritable untapped gold mine for a PUA savvy of christian culture. Churchianity’s already got the perfect social architecture installed for pick up. Christian women aching for sexy Alpha dominance in a sea of preconditioned christian Beta “good guys”, high intrasexual competition anxiety for both sexes, instant reconciliation and sin forgiveness for women, hell, you can even talk a woman into an abortion without her having any accountability for killing her child at this point. What’s not for a PUA to like? Feminine-primary churchianity has been waiting for christian-savvy players for years now.

Men with a well defined Red Pill lens, having the sensitivity to understand the subcommunications of what’s going on around them in church, should be rightly horrified.

This is one reason Men like Dalrock are vilified by Christian women who understand he’s wise to what’s transpiring in the church – the Feminine Imperative has taken the Lord’s name in vain by presuming to promote its agenda and socially engineer generations of men to support it by claiming it’s God’s will.

Read the Fempowerment narratives of any ‘Christian women’s ministry speaker’, they will defend the sisterhood above any tenets of faith. They’ll tolerate blasphemy of the faith, but never the Feminine Imperative. They’ll rationalize abortion as a man’s sin, but never accept accountability for it and any man to attempt to rebuke them (for anything really) is counter-shamed for male chauvinist judgementalism. And being judgemental of any woman is the most mortal of sins a man can make in the new church

In the feminine-primary church, the Holy Spirit is the Feminine Imperative, what she says is an article of faith. Men who become aware of this via the Red Pill are a danger to it.

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[…] Losing My Religion […]

Nathan
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Nathan

Bravo

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[…] Losing My Religion […]

Nathan
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Nathan

The ordination of women was opening the window that gay marriage crawled through.

THE OLD WAYS ARE THE BEST WAYS

Joshua Graham
Guest
Joshua Graham

I grew up in the modern American evangelical church and everything you said Rollo is true. I remember hearing the sermons telling me what a piece of shit I am for looking at the woman who shamelessly wore a tight skirt on Sunday morning. I remember nodding in agreement when the multimillion dollar pastor asked where are all the good men today? I watched in disbelief as married women after married women fucked the hawt worship leader or the 18 year old ministry leader, to eventually be taken back by her dejected husband and “forgiven,” while the rest of the… Read more »

Matt
Guest
Matt

And thus you reach the part where you explain why I left the church after 30 years. You’re running out of things to explain able my life…

I guess after lurking for 3 years I should introduce myself. I’m Matt. You changed my life. As the Samaritan Woman said, “Come, see a man who told me everything I ever did.”

Bravo to you and Dalrock. Keep bringing truth to the lies.

mersonia
Guest

I was going to type up a super long page about how the church ruined the first 21 years of my life….but dont feel like it might do it later but basically Being pastors son taught me -Keep Yourself Pure until marriage ( tons of girls passed up) -Your desires are wrong -Hate myself ( Because i hate my dad ..because I believed the shit he taught me and hated myself because I could never impress him because I never wanted to do any of the shit in the church because it felt wrong but everything else felt wrong because… Read more »

Nathan
Guest
Nathan

1 Timothy 2:14 ►
New International Version
And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

Yollo Comanche
Guest
Yollo Comanche

@mersonia I hope you’ll improve. God knows that in a high school full of shitty people, the church seems like the only safe alternative for making friends/connections to someone young. That’s how it went for me anyway. And to have your own father teaching that to you…..hell on earth. “– The world is evil and works for Satan and if you do anything successful your selling your soul unless its in the church.” Sounds like you got the “poor worker bee” version of the sermon. Whatever happened to Matthew 5:16? “Let your light so shine before men, that they may… Read more »

Rhett
Guest
Rhett

Islam is the solution. It is the only religion that has remained impervious to the Feminine Imperative in the modern world. Nietzsche despised both Judaism and Christianity as religions that weakened men, but admired Islam for its masculine outlook, the only religion to embrace his idea of the “will to power.” I know that Islam is hated by a great many people in the manosphere who see it as a threat to their own religious and cultural identities. But as Rollo, suggests here (with visceral sorrow), Western religious and cultural identities are irreversibly destined for decline under the Feminine Imperative.… Read more »

Nathan
Guest
Nathan
The Question
Guest

Quoted in a Rational Male post: Cross that line off of my “100 things to accomplish before I die” list. To get some kind of comparison to what’s happening today, I would highly recommend reading “Tortured for Christ” by Richard Wurmbrand. He was a Romanian pastor imprisoned for 14 years by the communists in his native land. When the communists took over the country they put “their” people in charge of the churches in order to ensure that religion didn’t present a threat. The religion became so co-opted that its doctrine was wholly Marxist and the “real” church went completely… Read more »

Jacob
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Jacob

Christian women aching for sexy Alpha dominance in a sea of preconditioned christian Beta “good guys”, high intrasexual competition anxiety for both sexes, instant reconciliation and sin forgiveness for women, hell, you can even talk a woman into an abortion without her having any accountability for killing her child at this point. What’s not for a PUA to like? Feminine-primary churchianity has been waiting for christian-savvy players for years now. RT, you’d destroy the church around the men who are trying to reform it, evidently out of nihilistic revenge? Do not lose your faith. Even a grain of faith will… Read more »

infowarrior1
Guest

I am christian because of evidence.

Start from here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ErnJF_nwBk

One gains and loses faith in Christianity because of the resurrection.

cheupez
Guest

Minefield. Christianity has been under attack. In the manosphere is a large section of men harping away on christian religion as the only force remaining that can conserve societal values which define civilization. Very close to this is another thread of thought that (correctly) identifies the white male as a target in an unrelenting onslaught on that civilization. This tends to place the white male section of the manosphere in a very secluded position, a position in which it is hard for the rest of the manosphere to empathise with him without sounding like a woman pretending to empathise with… Read more »

Martel
Guest

@ Rhett You blithely ignore innumerable problems with Islam. Yes, it’s more patriarchal, but despite all the problems caused by our current matriarchy, matriarchy’s not the root of all cause of every problem. For example, although Islam is great for the top-tiered men with seven wives, lower-tiered men get zilch, not unlike what happens here. But under Islam it’s institutionalized. We see how unproductive men can be in our own society when they’ve no chance to mate; that happens under Islam too, albeit for different reasons. Hence Islam’s inability, both historically and currently, or ever being able to produce much… Read more »

Mineter
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Mineter

@ Jacob (slow clap) Thank you for so skilfully mimicking the usual crap that many Churchian leaders tell only half of their congregations when they tell them to “man up”. Satire is often a clever way of showing the truth, like looking over your shoulder with a mirror. I will not hold my breath for the Church leadership to volunteer to be the first to make the ultimate sacrifice, nor do I expect them to exhort the women to do so (and even less would I expect the women to answer such a call). No, the Church is not worth… Read more »

ScuzzaMan (@ScuzzaMan)
Guest

That article linked at religionnews.com was disgusting. Started bad, got worse. Victimhood signalling in the first sentence.

Meh.

Tarl
Guest

I did RCIA a few years ago. For those who don’t know, that’s Catholic Sunday School for adults. Takes a long time; classes every week for nine months or so. I can confirm that it was nauseatingly Blue Pill, and all the men there were 100% beta. The discussion of the Bible passage “wives submit to your husbands” was particularly hilarious, as the priest explained that this really meant “mutual submission” and all the men in the class eagerly nodded their heads in agreement.

Tarl
Guest

Incidentally, Rollo, I just finished both your books. They are a tremendous achievement. Well done. Sure wish I’d had them when I was in high school. But, the internet didn’t even exist then, let alone the manosphere. I am keeping them aside for when my son reaches ninth grade, along with certain other “classics” like the Book of Pook.

Garnet
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Garnet

Thank you Rollo, this resonates strongly with me. I found your site through Donal’s blog in early 2015 and have been reading and applying as much as I can ever since. It’s really disconcerting to observe the church’s underlying dynamics and to receive IOIs from even those I once considered to be spiritually mature women. Everything I thought I knew was a lie. I must confess my faith has been shaken, and I am now rather agnostic. I do want to believe God exists (intelligent design etc) but I can no longer trust the messages I hear from the pulpit,… Read more »

Jacob
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Jacob

@ Mineter

No, the Church is not worth saving, unless you are referring to the Church as the body of believers, and not the organisational structure.

Of course it’s about the body of believers. I didn’t capitalize the word for a reason. Do try to be more observant.

There’s an emerging army of nitwits who cry ‘churchian’ at every mention of the word ‘church’. Temple builders would do well to avoid casting pearls before this class of swine.

rugby11
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rugby11

Rollo
This is the most personal post about me and how I got here.

“but it’s quite another to have been raised to adulthood in a religious context and coming to terms with having some very deep ego-investments shattered by a new Red Pill awareness.”

What drew me in was realizing by force that the church and the women became so much of te same thing that agony and pain became brothers.

DisgruntledEarthling
Guest
DisgruntledEarthling

TL;DR
Was raised a complete atheist by an atheist father within a hard-core catholic society. My only exposure to church was weddings and funerals. Experienced the ‘outcast’ mindset a bit when younger but as an adult in today’s largely secular society I don’t see any trace of it. Don’t miss it and never will. Even my kids are not baptized.
I seriously think there’s no need for intelligent logical people to keep supporting religion – not even to keep up appearances. But that’s just me.

Andy
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Andy

I credit religion for having a huge role in severely fucking me up. Christianity is essentially founded on a madonna/whore complex. Add in a shitload of shame for sexual urges and rage for having to suppress them, turn the other cheek and let people walk all over you… It’s not a good recipe. All this, and I didn’t even believe a single fucking word of it… It conditioned me anyway. I don’t care if Christianity is “reformed” or is purged of the FI… It will still continue to fuck people up. I agree with Joe Rogan that Christianity was formed… Read more »

Hmm
Guest
Hmm

Rollo –

The book that first opened my eyes to the feminization of the church was “The Church Impotent: The Feminization of Christianity” by Leon Podles. Many churches nowadays (mostly non-evangelical) have become 60-90% women as the men have been driven (or bored) out.

rugby11
Guest
rugby11

@Andy
Totally agree
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lfMLZMvqed0
Especially in dealing with the opposite sex.

XD
Guest
XD

“What’s not for a PUA to like? Feminine-primary churchianity has been waiting for christian-savvy players for years now.” Even in my blue pill days, us churchgoing teenage boys knew that basic fact.Back then picking up girls in church was way easier then school or the club; no cover charge, you got to wear a suit , and food was free. “Men with a well defined Red Pill lens, having the sensitivity to understand the subcommunications of what’s going on around them in church, should be rightly horrified.” Why? Every modern institution from the college hallways to the church pews to… Read more »

Agent P
Guest
Agent P

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/germany-women-may-have-to-reveal-father-of-milkmens-kids

Perhaps there is some hope, although not really as all the law does is allow one man to sue another man for the support payments, amazingly, chicks still are not held accountable.

File under #openhypergammy and #lletsseeyouandhimfight, #FI, #feminine imperative

Pinelero
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Pinelero

Free Chris Rock!

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Cheupez

I think this article begins to broach the periphery of the minefeild that religion and race is to the manosphere.

Take a spin over at Le Chateau… going on for years…

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

The Church began sliding down this slippery slope ever since they pulled the altars off of the wall…

Father Thyme
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Father Thyme

What else could one expect from a religion that lauds cuckoldry in the first chapter of the first book of its New Testament: “His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant.” (Matthew 1:18) Cucked Joseph stayed. Maybe later the Beta Carpenter castrated himself as Mary’s cuckspawn recommended to males. (Matthew 19.11-12)

Merry Cuckmas, boys.
http://i.imgur.com/PTaeMEN.jpg

Chris
Guest
Chris

“I don’t let women take over and tell the men what to do.” – Timothy 2:11

As a single twice-born Christian who plans to stay that way, I think a lot of trouble could’ve been avoided if those words were heeded. And let’s not forget which person ate the apple first.

YaReally
Guest

lol @ guys thinking PUAs aren’t already in your churches slaying poon and like there aren’t Christians learning PUA (and other religions, including ones that frown on sex). You think having a boner is going to make you burn up when you walk through the church doors? You think these priests aren’t fucking nuns and shit while telling you to feel ashamed about sex? lol

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

For the agnostic or areligious man, discarding a Blue Pill social conditioning for a Red Pill awareness is a difficult task, but for men raised to believe that their only doctrinally approved path to sex with a woman is abstinence until marriage, that man’s only hope is to accept his fate and stay the Beta a feminized church has conditioned him to be. Religion (Christianity in particular) has always been about subjugation of the populace for the purpose of serving its current leadership. Think about the function of marriage, for instance. You want to grow your base of followers to… Read more »

Chris
Guest
Chris

Also, to Andy and Mersonia, I completely understand where you’re coming from. I too fell into the traditional Evangelical (mis)understanding of the Lord’s words about lust in Matthew 5. It’s been in recent years where I and many others have realized that those verses were meant to prevent self-righteousness, not promote sexual repression. When you’re a young man who associates guilt and shame with every sexual urge/thought/desire/dream, bad things happen. Just ask Josh Duggar. I know a part of you probably winces whenever you hear “God” and “church,” but I hope you’ll be able to make the distinction between the… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong

I really should proof read my shit…

Corrections:

One clever idea is to declare that the strongest drive humans (particularly men) have is sinful in basic church doctrine, then make the church the sole provider of the only way to make it less sinful: marriage.

but also sowed the seeds of Christianity’s eventual destruction.

Jovan
Guest
Jovan

Great post. I am a red-pill Christian man and agree with almost everything you wrote. Even though I am a member of the oldest and most traditional “denomination” where women are required to wear headscarves while in church (as a symbol of obedience and humility – how smart was that!), not allowed to preach (as the apostle Paul wisely said), even in that super-traditionalist environment you can see creeping feminism winning because men are totally ignorant of the ugly truth. Women understand that all our “traditionalism” is reduced to just meaningless formalities. Yes, they gladly wear headscarves and long dresses,… Read more »

Hegelian
Guest
Hegelian

WOW!!! One of your best EVER!!!!!!

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

He was strong and did not take any b/s from anyone.

Hahaha, oh really?

BillyS
Guest

Good post Rollo. I have been considering many of the same things myself and I am figuring out where to go from here.

I know that Jesus is my Lord and I must serve Him, but the modern churches are mostly quite messed up in this area and figuring out the proper path is very challenging.

Jovan
Guest
Jovan

@Sun Wukong,

Yes really, but if you had any respect for other men you would never react in that way. First, respect the author of this excellent blog. Second, respect me as your fellow man – even when you disagree you should not ridicule other men. We are brothers in arms and should stick together.

That’s the worst feminine bullshit men can do to each other.

Jacob
Guest
Jacob

the subculture is so feminized now that it has become ripe for exactly this to occur. It’s a statement of how far this feminine-primary influence has saturated the church.

@ Rollo

That was understood. Need to be careful how you pitch this. The fact that prophecy is often self-fulfilling is enough reason not to plant a distracting seed in the minds of men who have a greater mission before them.

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

@Jovan

Using “respect” as a euphemism for “do not criticize” is a cowardly dodge of honest discussion. If your beliefs can’t withstand criticism without complaints of “disrespect”, then you might want to reconsider them.

SJB
Guest
SJB

@Rollo: I’ve followed Dalrock’s blog for a bit too; based on his articles it seems the contemporary churchian group is akin to a commissar’s meeting to find out who is in sin – when the foregone conclusion is it is the men, of course, at fault and that’s the reason the 5-year plan failed.

In parallel to @Jovan (perhaps) I am baffled as to how non-liturgical groups consider what they do as worship.

redlight
Guest
redlight

shame on you for this essay, destroying all hope for a scribs & em church wedding

since abortion is her current hot topic, good luck with deleting all her post attempts

trackback

[…] of courtesy I have to link to Tomassi, affectionately known as the Irrational Male, who writes  Losing My Religion.  Vox Day, never one to miss an opportunity to drive people away from faith, joins in the fray, […]

Julie
Guest
Julie

You may think me just a silly woman and your probably right. But I am a silly woman who is disgusted with the false church prevalent today. I totally agree with the assessment of “the church” and the feminization of men. It has been evident to me since becoming a believer in 03 that there is something dreadfully wrong with the “church” in more ways than just the feminization. It’s not scriptural all the way around. So I left the “church” and follow my Savior by His word and His Holy Spirit. I believe the core of the feminization issue… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

@redlight

shame on you for this essay, destroying all hope for a scribs & em church wedding

http://media3.giphy.com/media/HRNqHqiwbfrIQ/200.gif

Jovan
Guest
Jovan

@Sun Wukong

No, you did not “criticize”. Honest discussion does not start with “Hahaha”. It start with an honest question – “Hey Jovan, then how do you explain this?” I am not afraid at all to defend my position – but the author clearly stated he does not want any religious discussions here, so I will respect that.

We have exchanged a few blows, so let’s leave it at that. It is a manly thing to do.

Jovan
Guest
Jovan

@SJB

“In parallel to @Jovan (perhaps) I am baffled as to how non-liturgical groups consider what they do as worship.”

I agree completely.

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

@Jovan

It is a manly thing to do.

Hahaha, if you don’t want me laughing, stop making humorous statements. Criticism is not going to come in a carefully packaged form, gently padded for your safe consumption. And your post clearly opened the religious discussion can o’ worms by asserting the old “Jesus is so redpill” chestnut that gets bandied around from time to time. Expecting it to remain unassailable is amusing to me. Explicitly defining the “manly thing to do” is hilarious as well.

8/10, would laugh and criticize again.

Agent P
Guest
Agent P

As an agnostic(By personal growth and decision making) Anglican (By birth and culture) I can say at this point in my life that Christianity seems like the ultimate shit test for men. Only really matched by modern feminism in the level of psychological torture visited upon men. You are told from the get go that you are broken, failed, born flawed and that really, you will never actually measure up, there is always one more hill to climb, one more sin to avoid or self flagellate over and so on. It’s so ripe for abuse by Authority figures, regardless of… Read more »

CEO Nikolic
Guest

The decline in male control started in the 1850s to 1870s, when women got the right to own property in marriage. This was in Britain, the epicenter of the noxious tidal wave of bullshit. For all of history before then, there was nostate-sanctioned push for female rights. So something happened, something big. The question is what? I may address that question on my website (click on my name to go there) but for now I’m too busy celebrating Charlie Sheen and dissecting the fall of Communism to bother. But I will say this. Women have always been emotionally mighty —… Read more »

Jovan
Guest
Jovan

@Sun

I do not expect anything from you. Just saying that if you want to get your question answered you have to get out, knock on the door again and ask it nicely. What you are doing here is typical feminine stuff – “I can act like a bitch and you have to play nice, otherwise you are weak”. No my friend. It starts with you starting the conversation respectfully.

If you want to bitch test and play games with me you have run into a wrong man. I am not going to waste any more of my time with you.

Jeff Arnall
Guest

Rollo, I too am hesitant to even mention Christianity on my blog http://BestToolsForMen.com for the exact same reasons. Not because I’m ashamed of Christ, but because I cannot recommend any church in my area for a red pill minded person. You and Dalrock dive deep into red pill territory, while I’m focusing more on a beginners primer.

And the point about churches being the PUA happy hunting ground is too true. It was like that 30 years ago when I was single, and even more so now. Shame on them for exposing their young women instead of protecting them.

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

@Jovan I am not going to waste any more of my time with you. That’s fine, sweetheart. You’re already illustrating my point with your pouting. @all the churchians Here’s a Red Pill churchians need to swallow: the reason the FI is kicking Christian men’s asses is because you’re constrained by your own rules to a very narrow way of thinking and viewing the world. The FI is driven by the same feminine pragmatism often discussed here. That same pragmatism thinks around you to find ways to exploit your own rules for use against you. Expecting guys like me to “respect”… Read more »

jsolbakken
Guest
jsolbakken

” it’s not who executes the control, but whose beliefs control the executors.”

There it is, in the proverbial nut shell. The beliefs of gynocentric feminazism control all the executors, male and female, and that is the problem. I’m a Christian because I believe in Jesus Christ, that His death and resurrection are have atoning efficacy, and that He has the keys of hell and of death. But I cannot stand what has become of the post modern gynocentric feminazified “church.” Up with it I will not put.

Jovan
Guest
Jovan

@Sun OK, this is actually good stuff. You exchange with me shows how strong FI actually is. Take a look at our conversation and you can easily notice that I am not at all concerned what you think about my faith and convictions. I was trying to warn you about your feminine behavior – which is what should be discussed here. Almost every sentence in your latest post is typical feminine b/s. Full of deflection etc. You are only concerned about what you think about Christianity and keep bitching about your “feelings” while not even noticing that I don’t give… Read more »

Agent P
Guest
Agent P

@jovan,
your ego investment in the Church is showing, thin skin and all that.

If you have rational forceful arguments, you should have no issue rolling up your sleeves and getting into the muck of a debate here at RM. Preening about “respect” at this point only paints you with a brush of self righteous weakness. This is a locker room not a tea room, act accordingly.

Life is as it should be at the RM forum, you earn the respect of others, you don’t presume it like a chick would.

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

@Jovan

Real men respect other men.

Hahaha, quit trying to define things for me. It’s like being chided by every woman I’ve ever offended.

cheupez
Guest

@sentient:
“Take a spin over at Le Chateau… going on for years”

Been there breifly. I have no stomach for it. Not that I do not fully appreciate and identify with the divergent points of view in there…but I would rather not stick in that place. It is a quagmire of controversy. Not that TRM is not. But the perspective in here is alittle bit more sane. Kudos Rollo.

theasdgamer
Guest

@jovan

Christ took BS from people and also confronted them. “Turn the other cheek” is part of Christ’s frame. That doesn’t necessarily prevent Christians from confronting people. Christ’s ideas still exert a lot of influence in the world today. Hence, his frame is quite powerful. Blue pillers take what they like from Christ’s frame and discard what they don’t like.

theasdgamer
Guest

@jovan

You’ll find that both sun and glenn write to inflame on the topic of religion…don’t engage them on the topic of religion.

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

“Respect me!”

“No.”

“I’m taking my ball and going home!”

http://media3.giphy.com/media/3o6ZsVbs2GzgKNvVpS/200.gif
“OK.”

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

@cheupez

It is a quagmire of controversy. Not that TRM is not. But the perspective in here is alittle bit more sane.

Yeah. Here we wind up generating controversy without invoking NWO conspiracies and whining about “TEH JOOOOOOOOOZ!!!!!!1!!”

bluepillprofessor
Guest

Our church recently brought in a young, pudgy mangina blue pill pastor with a behemoth for a wife. He taught a lesson of scripture on THE FAMILY from Ephesians and I assured my wife: “This should be good!” It was. He managed to ignore the entire message of Ephesians: “Wives submit to your husbands as you do to the Lord…husbands love your wives like Christ loved the Church.” Instead, he went with this passage: “Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the… Read more »

Jovan
Guest
Jovan

I am not talking about religion at all. Read the comments.

@Sun

Girlfriends coming for the rescue… Seen that before. 😉

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

@Jovan

Girlfriends coming for the rescue… Seen that before.

No idea what you’re talking about, cupcake.

Darwinian Arminian
Guest
Darwinian Arminian

@Jacob RT, you’d destroy the church around the men who are trying to reform it, evidently out of nihilistic revenge? It’s not about revenge, it’s about recognizing the new reality and acting accordingly. Much as I hate to say it, the modern American Evangelical church is now in a situation comparable to the townsfolk populating Invasion of the Body Snatchers, in that you have something that looks like the traditional church and occasionally even talks like it, but in actuality is only a look-alike imitation that subverted the real thing long ago and now exists solely to spread the same… Read more »

bluepillprofessor
Guest

>>women…exhibit a truly startling lack of forethought. They are sheep being led by sheep. With their giddy laughs and girlish smiles and simpering steps down the cobblestoned path, they exhibit NONE of the command-authority-functions that would enable them to function in a coordinated way that would enable them to usurp Men’s System. Certainly not by themselves but they have lots and lots of help from the men they recruit to do their bidding. Saying this got me banned from Dalrock but I will say it again: When men lost their “conjugal rights” in marriage, this gave women the ultimate nuclear… Read more »

key
Guest

on cue a mohammedan appears, eager to entice despairing men into his nightmarish fold with false promises of strength and glory

mohammedism is indisputably a martial death cult at its inception and core

nice try “Rhett”

enjoy your 7th century third-world hell on earth

thedeti
Guest

In today’s church, “Masculinity”‘s sole purpose is to serve women. You’re not a man unless you’re doing something for a woman, serving a woman, or preparing to serve women. Anything a man does must be for a woman’s benefit, or it is of no use, value or purpose. Men’s groups in churches today do not exist to build men up for their own edification. Rather, the entire focus of men’s groups and men’s ministries is to “build men up” not for themselves; but so they can better serve their wives, or to prepare them to be husbands and fathers. What… Read more »

Softek
Guest
Softek

The model of Jesus is very ironic here. Everyone knows the tale of the Scribes and the Pharisees, and how Jesus reprimanded them for being false prophets and liars. The most “Christian” thing a man could do these days would be to rebel against the church and its propagating of the Feminine Imperative. Like Jesus went into the temples and flipped over the tables of gambler’s and chased everyone out with a whip. I don’t associate with Christianity at all, or religion at all, in any way, shape or form. But from an outsider’s observation, that seems like the most… Read more »

Daniel
Guest

There is a reason for the attacks on men and the family…it is to facilitate the destruction of God pattern for men, women, children and the family. It is explained on my website….www.knowingforyourself.com
On the home page clink on the tap in the upper right hand corner “The Church”. It give a lot of information but the 3rd and 4th post are most relevant to the topic here. Best to all and their loved ones. Daniel

Jovan
Guest
Jovan

I was lucky to run into a great priest in my youth, total badass.

Once, a bitch came to our church and started shit testing: “I love the Church, but you guys are weak and cannot satisfy a woman”. Then my priest introduced her to a few guys from our group and told to give her a lesson. Within a week one of the guys fucked her insane… She never bitched again.

Of course, that is what he privately instructed us to do, no way he could preach that in public. God bless the old man! Thank you! 🙂

Softek
Guest
Softek

From F.W. Robertson, who, by the way, was preaching in Brighton in the mid 1800’s, which Nikolic mentioned in his earlier post: (Robertson has plenty of his own issues stemming from inner sexual conflict and as far as Nikolic’s comment goes, I can only imagine Robertson could be a good case study surrounding the start of the Feminine Imperative’s influence in the church)… Anyway, this quote seems appropriate in the context of the OP here: http://www.fwrobertson.com/sermons/ser15.htm — There is a cowardice in this age which is not Christian. We shrink from the consequences of truth. We look round and cling… Read more »

Jovan
Guest
Jovan

@Sun

You have initiated a conversion with me, remember?

I did not ask for your attention and I do not need it. But if you have something to ask me and expect an answer this is not how it works. Now you are butt-hurt, can’t stop scratching and it only hurts more…

This is a good lesson for the guys – never do that.

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

@key I give Islam credit for one thing. It realizes what Christians are learning right now: the only way to get people (believers and non-believers alike) to play by religious rules long term is to enforce them via political dominance and the threat of violence. It’s a deplorable death cult that should be fought at every turn, but it’s the only way an ultra-conservative set of religious beliefs can maintain its form long term. A religion can prolong its life through changing with the times which Christian religions have largely done, but ultimately they will change so much as to… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

@Jovan

Non-sequitur much?

Jovan
Guest
Jovan

Stop scratching and the pain will go away.

It is obvious that you have a problem with religion (mother?). I do not.

You can see this as a therapeutic experience. It is a good thing.

Scott
Guest

And once he gets to marriage and his approved expression of his sexuality, the “Christian” man finds that the feminized church, even the male elders, expect endless qualifications to women and his wife’s unceasing appeasement in exchange for that approved sex. It’s a tail-chasing that holds men to the old books social order expectations while absolving women of all accountability and expecting him to also make concessions for a new (feminized) social order that’s ensaturated the church. Rollo. Every time I try to explain this to church guys I know, it is the end of the conversation for all intents… Read more »

ETA
Guest
ETA

@Rollo “Pope Francis said the Vatican should study the possibility of ordaining women as deacons, answering a call that women, particularly in the United States, have been asking the church to address for decades.” . . . “To date, Francis has praised the “feminine genius” but has not carried through on vague promises to appoint more women to leadership positions.” I don’t think he’s infiltrated, but has been given a bad hand to play. How well he’ll play his cards, time will tell. But I see him more like a politician trying to win voters than a traditional Pope. Who… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

@Jovan

Look I know I clowned you and now you’re bitter about it, but seriously give up. You just look like a try hard trying to imitate me now. You can’t do it. We already saw your colors. What you’re doing now is just cringe-worthy to watch.

jsolbakken
Guest
jsolbakken

I think you misunderstand how an honest religion works versus how a militant totalitarian ideology in religious disguise works. In the olden days a person could be a garden variety Christian and live in the regular world, or one could go whole hog and join one of the various extremist outfits like a monastery or something. One could adhere to strict rules or one could use a more relaxed approach. In Christianity the particulars were up to the individual conscience and the individual’s sense of his level and intensity and context of commitment. For example, it wasn’t that Christians thought… Read more »

Jovan
Guest
Jovan

There is a historical basis for female deacons, so pope is not wrong about that. There were female deacons in the early church, but for some reason the practice has been abandoned. It is important to understand that a deacon is just a “helper” in the service, someone who helps the priest with the chores. Has no authority, is not allowed to preach without explicit permission, cannot perform any service without the priest etc. So that would be perfectly OK role for a woman. I’ve seen women perform that role in female monasteries (eastern orthodox) for the simple reason there… Read more »

Jon
Guest
Jon

I found your article very interesting and for the most part very true. We have been systematically feminized. Personally, I try to avoid anything that would lower my testosterone such as soy or even drinking out of plastic bottles. I currently lead a college men’s Sunday school class that is specifically for men where I don’t spend my time talking about how bad men are but where we as men need to become men using Jesus as our ultimate model. There are a lot of men here that have shunned the Church and I completely understand but maybe our foundation… Read more »

jsolbakken
Guest
jsolbakken

I would also like to point out to the simple minded post modernists that enforcement of social rules against things like adultery and fornication were NOT NOT NOT!!! seen as primarily religious, but instead were considered important as practical rules for running earthly human societies. And what red pill male in the post modern world is still blind to the chaos and destruction wrought by all the adulteries and fornications committed in Western society these days?

Jovan
Guest
Jovan

@Son

If you haven’t noticed adults are trying to have a conversation here.

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

@Jovan

Well shut up and let them have one then. Accept that it doesn’t include you.

Jim
Guest
Jim

This is what happens when women are not put in their place. You dominate them or they will dominate you. It’s not pleasant but welcome to humanity…and reality.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Softek

Like Jesus went into the temples and flipped over the tables of gambler’s and chased everyone out with a whip.

Not gambler’s… money lenders and people selling sacrificial doves…

How about that?

Jovan
Guest
Jovan

@Son,

We are discussing something important here and you keep pulling my pants. So go out and play with the kids.

Daddy is busy now.

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