If youtube isn’t your thing you can get the audio archive here.
I managed to get some time with Niko once again yesterday. He was kind enough to stay up late and get a talk in for another installment of our semi-regular podcast The Red Pill Monthly (more like bi-monthly recently).
I really liked this one because we delved into some new stuff about Frame and the importance of establishing and maintaining a solid sense of self and purpose in all aspects of a man’s life, but focusing on the interpersonal and intersexual importance of Frame.
The concept of Frame is not my original idea, it’s actually derived from interpersonal psychology. However, way back in my early days at SoSuave I made the connection to the psychological principle and what PUAs of the time were advocating as a means to control in seduction. I begin my Iron Rules of Tomassi with Frame because I’ve always felt that everything else in seduction, and life in general, hinges upon the realities we create for ourselves.
The pop-cultural term for it today is ‘mindset’, but I feel the concept of Frame extends beyond what’s generally a retreading of The Power of Positive Thinking that’s being promoted as mindset now. It certainly plays a part in the entirety of holding Frame, but the overall establishment of Frame with a woman, with other men, with your family or with your employer requires an art that extends past just how one thinks of himself.
Iron Rule of Tomassi #1
Frame is everything. Always be aware of the subconscious balance of who’s frame in which you are operating. Always control the Frame, but resist giving the impression that you are.
The concept of “frame” is yet another ephemeral idea that had need of a term in the very beginnings of the great masculine awakening that’s become the ‘community’. If memory serves I think it may have been Mystery who first picked up on what’s really a very rudimentary and well established psychological principle. In psych terms, frame is an often subconscious, mutually acknowledged personal narrative under which auspices people will be influenced. One’s capacity for personal decisions, choices for well-being, emotional investments, religious beliefs and political persuasions (amongst many others) are all influenced and biased by the psychological narrative ‘framework’ under which we are most apt to accept as normalcy.
Rather than go into too much depth here I’ll just encourage you to listen to the podcast and we’ll have an open comments thread about Frame. I think it’s good to review some older principles, not just for the benefit of newly Red Pill aware men, but also because I think it’s good to reconsider these ‘standards’ from a perspective of time and where we are as a Red Pill community today.
Frame, and understanding its importance, is the foundation of dozens of other Red Pill principles and applications. As most of my readers know, I try to avoid specific prescriptive advice. I’m not in the business of telling men how to live their lives with formulaic step-by-step Red Pill templates. The Red Pill isn’t one-size-fits-all and men need to interpret their Red Pill awareness according to their personalities, cultural context, social situations and personal beliefs.
That said, in the coming months I will be offering some more generalized, prescriptive ideas or suggestions as to how I feel men might apply certain Red Pill principles in their lives. The 9 Iron Rules are about as close as I come to prescriptive advice, and while I’m not in the business of making ‘Rational Male Men’, after reviewing them with Niko I think that some generalized advice according to Red Pill awareness might be something in the offing.
So, let me know what you think about this ideas as well as any questions or input you have about Frame once you’ve listened to our talk. It runs about an hour and a half. I’m also toying with the idea of discussing each of the Iron Rules in the coming RPM podcasts. Let me know if that’s something you’d be interested in listening to.
Enjoy!
@Korin – No time to wade through 110 comments so if this is repetitive or you got better advice, then there it is. That said… First, your question is perfect for an article about frame. Do you have an abundance mentality with women? Until you have that, there is no “technique” that will “work”. And a man can only have an abundance mentality when he’s got multiple women on the go, what we call “plates”. Spinning plates means when one falls and breaks, you just focus on the others. As well, you are always recruiting new plates and after a… Read more »
@sentient, culum, rocket, eve, SDs
“I’ve talked to guys in what amount to basically neighborhoods and they all have stories of seeing their neighbors and coworkers and shit on Tinder”
Now this is amusing. Rollo wrote an essay on Sugar Babes a little while ago, so I decided to check things out, registered and was allowed to start searching today. Within 20 minutes I found a woman I’m friends with on FB! Most of the photos on the website show faces too.
@Culum @Sentient Re Tinder I have yet to see a bloke do better than his SMV on Tinder. That’s not sour grapes on my part. Ive seen HB 8 and HB strippers Tinder.All the guys seem to be way better than them. One of my best mates is like the Federer of Tinder.Really good looking, abs fit owns,4 houses.Dude is 44 but 37on Tinder .I begged him to come out once and winged him on a 26 year old.He banged her but failed her shit test for more. Dude would rather be worshipped by women he’s age or even 50… Read more »
Redlight… yeah, it is geo located so you WILL see people you know and who know you…
@sentient
I knew that as I was deliberately searching in my surrounding area instead of picking your neighborhood or Austin/Houston.
I just didn’t expect friends to be showing up as Sugar Babes, but you’ve had that experience?
@culum sentient. Tinder ran its course about a year ago. I hardly meet anyone now. When it first start e there were hot quality young women I met. Now all I see are hookers, fake profiles, she males, fatties and possible blackmail scammers who ask for your Facebook in what’s been revealed to be a global blackmail scam. I swipe when I’m in traffic or bored and when I do get a Match now it never converts to a meet up. It’s like those scratch and win lottery tickets. Meeting girls in public or gaming them at events bars parties… Read more »
To anyone who cares, It almost seems like women really do put men in one of two categories of alpha/lover and beta/provider and they use apps like Tinder and various dating sites to screen accordingly. So, some BP beta who is dumb enough to try to live up to a modern day woman’s unrealistic expectations is easily screened out and identified as “beta” by women. Upon recognition a woman says to herself “ohh, he is beta, okay I will apply beta standards to him”. So women see betas like they see an automobile that doesn’t run but has all the… Read more »
@Ranger @Klem @Redlight @Sentient @walawala Hahaha. Thanks guys. I think the opinion is pretty unanimous then – not even worth putting in the effort to figure out Tinder then. All my Tinder experience has been at ages 35/36 so it’s no surprise I drop off a lot of younger girls’ results, but it’s puzzling that I don’t get matches even with the 35+ post Wall chicks. The matches I get (although they are so few that it is difficult to draw conclusions from such a small sample) are spread right through the 20-45 age group. Although it is true that… Read more »
Gave up on Tinder and OKC a while ago. Recently went back to pof this summer and am having surprising explainable “success”. I’m 57 and my pof age is 44, which is not unreasonable given my physical characteristics. I message the 35-ish crowd with no great success and have recently stopped initiating messaging (it’s just too depressing). What I’m seeing now is I’m being approached by numerous 39-47 year-olds. My profile is somewhat unique and blunt. Sort of here’s my special unique thing, been there done that, show me what you got. Numerous dates, couple of lays, and a heartbreak… Read more »
@DisgruntledEarthling – One more recommendation for reading the old YaReally advice on text game. It’s in the archive and in the Book of YaReally.
Yes, text game stuff is getting less important these days but it’s still useful to know because you’re still doing some texting (and in the age ranges you’re playing in, they came of age in the pre-Tinder world so the texting could be more effective).
@Culum
I read everything yareally puts out…
And yeah, his text game is longer and fuller (not just logistics) than most and that the model I use. I can go from sexual to comfort no problem. My issue is mostly when face-to-face where I keep thinking the effort I need to put in should instead be applied to a young-hot instead to a rapidly-fading…
Ya gotta check this out….
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C-P1ZXScYQ&w=560&h=315%5D
@Colbert – Sigma’s strike me as alpha’s who are socially incompetent in some weird ways but are still dominant. I think any sigma can “up the alpha” by getting that he’s not socially intelligent. The archetype sigma is described as the guy who shows up at a party with a hot girl nobody knows and then leaves, he’s a mystery etc. This is mythology. We are a social species and in fact, our social nature is the key driver of all human progress. Going to a party and being known and having fun is better than being a cool, aloof… Read more »
@ Scribb, “Funniest lie that men were ever sold? The idea of “unconditional love” – have you ever once seen a woman exhibit unconditional love to a man? Lol, i used to think that was the highest virtue I could aspire to but kept falling short cuz deep down inside I had way too much self-respect. So I was conflicted about it all. Now? Unconditional anything is simply unthinkable to me. You either give me as least as much as I’m giving or you can hit the fucking bricks.” “Just wish this had all happened sooner….” Haha………yep it’s TOTALLY conditional.… Read more »
But projecting your frame is about who you are being, not what you are doing.
Colbert – the irreducible elements of Alpha are being Dynamic, Passionate and Authentic. This is the Alpha Triad – the core of an Alpha personality. And the Alpha Triad is amoral. Eagle Scout church Deacon CEO’s and gang banging baby daddies display the same irreducible traits…
Also when you are LIVING in the DPA frame full time, you transcend to a supra game state…
And the easiest way to begin the DPA journey is by following the Polaris of the Platinum Rule [do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it].
Going to have to drop a HB8 plate who is showing a lot of affection but has no urgency to close, basically making me wait which is never worth it. I have to hand it to her though, she’s playing the game like a pro, always dresses up when we meet, pushes for holding hands/kissing, being very feminine. She’s starting third year med residency and moving about 2 hours away this week, we last met on Monday, had some drinks at my place, pushed for close but got lmr, wants me to come visit her when she gets her own… Read more »
@ Sentient,
“And the easiest way to begin the DPA journey is by following the Polaris of the Platinum Rule [do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it].”
…..and always within your own frame (I guess that’s redundant). You don’t like it? Oh well, then…..NEXT!
@Scribbler: “Without betas, human progress stops. We need 80% of men to be betas, someone needs to be humanity’s pack mule.” We need chiefs to direct, enforcers to, well, enforce the direction, and pack mules to tote that barge, lift that bale in the direction indicated by the enforcers. Captain, lieutenant, private. Alpha, beta, delta. We also need 1 or 2 percent of men to be psychopaths. Someone needs to be humanity’s sonsabitches. It’s a world that would have to give a shit in order to raise itself to the level of being cruel. It isn’t cruel, it’s heartless. “Being… Read more »
@Sentient – Agreement is on 11! The “Dynamic, passionate and authentic” has become my shorthand mental guide for moving through my day. And it attracts people (not just women) like crazy, mostly…It does seem to piss a small amount of people off and I’ve realized that this stems from envy. Thanks very much for focusing on this and sharing it here. Where I fall short most of all is on the passionate front. I hadn’t realized how much I’d become cynical and angry and sad and hopeless. And in my case, given my horrific childhood and then the divorce and… Read more »
@ Rollo,
Have you ever done a piece on woman “frame”? Is there a difference between male and female frame? Just a thought, as I’m becoming more and more convinced that women innately and intuitively understand the whole “frame” thing better then most men do, due to evolutionary psychology and the female need to manipulate the people/players within their own environment. This would contrast with men who are more focused on manipulating their surrounding physical environment, which includes the extraction of resources from it.
@Colbert, I’m presently writing a post in respect to what NBTM was going on about commitment and the ‘gatekeeping’ mentality which also touches on ‘woman frame’.
However, I do have this you might read:
https://therationalmale.com/2011/09/13/rewriting-the-rules/
@KFG – Nomads in the sociological sense aren’t loners, rather they are part of a social group/tribe of nomads. Loners are by no means nomadic as a type, but the ones I’d call sigma are dominant and have confidence but seem socially retarded to me. I’ve also found many of them are misanthropes who are better left alone. I don’t see them as socially skillful. They usually are very angry under the surface, and many have an almost pathological sense of their superiority. Krauser strikes me as Sigma. He utterly lacks passion and doesn’t seem like a happy person. He… Read more »
I came across this website in a random google search and glanced over this page, 2 hours later… Very refreshing point of view. I’m a 26 year old woman married to an Alpha Male, he is self-motivated, he pushes me into things I don’t want to do (for our benefit), and when I go on a rant over inconsequential things he very firmly tells me to “sit down and shut the fuck up”. I’ve never been happier. His going against societal mores and consistently telling me I am chubby (and beautiful), allowed me to be comfortable and confident in the… Read more »
@Jessica, welcome. You might find these posts interesting:
https://therationalmale.com/2012/05/30/the-abdication-imperative/
https://therationalmale.com/2013/01/30/choreplay/
“Nomads in the sociological sense aren’t loners, rather they are part of a social group/tribe of nomads.” Ethologists adopted the word “nomad” by analogy to geographical wanderers. They didn’t get assigned a Greek letter because they don’t fit into the Greek letter system of hierarchy (it was Vox Day who assigned them a letter). Rather than wander the world geographically, they wander the socio-sexual hierarchy. They do not find a place and “settle.” They look for places that advantage them at the moment, and move on to a new place when it no longer does so. And when the socio-sexual… Read more »
@K:
K.
Return of the Bible Bot.
KFG Alphas are also, at best, uneasy around nomads because their dominant behaviour is seen as a threat. It is not within the alpha’s mindset that a socially dominant personality isn’t trying to become king of the hill. KFG is spot on here… I can identify, not because there is some so called benefit to any of these Vox rankings, at best they are useful archetypes and shorthand descriptors… at worst guys think they can attain preferred “status” and it will convey a lifetime of benefits. Punch my Alpha card bro and I am set… reality is every moment is… Read more »
KFG The men who are socially inept, but act as if they are socially dominant, are a different outlier group.
And they fucking destroy businesses from the inside. Avoid them if you can, squash them if you must.
Enter the Gamma
@ scrib That video’s pretty crazy, but a very good microcosm for the majority of relationships that (Beta) men are in with women. Says it all. Self-sacrifice, “compromise,” etc. And it’s always in favor of the women. And it’s always because the men, ultimately, don’t believe they can do any better. Speaking from experience, I’m starting to think that being incel and just jacking off to porn is the lesser of two evils compared to being in a shitty relationship. This is what I’m trying to come to terms with now. Part of me was going “holy shit” and was… Read more »
Your life can literally depend on being Alpha.
hence the Alpha Clarion Call – “Come with me [if you want to live].”
I wouldn’t get hung up on Alpha vs. Sigma vs. Delta vs. whatever. Alpha vs. Beta seems enough to me. The main difference is being your own mental point of origin or not. Putting yourself first or not. The rest are just nuances and kinda mental masturbation IMO. Ultimately all a man has to ask himself is “Am I doing what I *really* want to do, or not?” Yes = Alpha, No = Beta, in the most simplified form. I see “Alpha” and “Beta” as a kind of shorthand for this concept. The specific nature of what a man really… Read more »
Look at the quality of guys this ugly chick has in her Matches. These are guys who’ve already at some point swiped Right on her and/or have messaged her etc. LOOK AT THESE GUYS lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS5vMU8Ao_Q And these two are just making fun of half of them. Like, she’s “too good” for these guys. One’s a doctor, one’s got pics of him doing handstands on the great wall of china and shit doing all that stuff everyone tells guys to do (go climb a mountain, be a CEO, pussy will fall from the sky!!) and that guy is messaging this… Read more »
I’ll just leave this here:
https://twitter.com/StudCarmichael/status/765717082780540928
Instagram model VS Average girl on Tinder:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7UCnExs2bk
This is in 24 hours (imagine a girl who’s had an account on there for a year or two) and if you pause it you can see the quality of guys the average girl is getting, half of them look like TRP members lol And that girl’s pics are her best MySpace angles, he links the girl’s Instagram of what she actually looks like in the description.
Ditch Tinder. Spend the time you would have spent making a profile and swiping, on going out and talking to some girls.
I think as Tinder grew in popularity ‘average’ guys started to see it as a Buffer and women adapted accordingly. It’s an interesting social experiment. It reveals a lot of RP truths about Hypergamy, women’s solipsism, Beta Game etc.
@Culum got a little more time today… Thanks for holding me accountable generally (along with the other guys here). Without someone to kick my ass, it’s just easy to spin wheels or obsess over irrelevancies you’re welcome, and that’s true enough…BUT (and it really IS a big BUT…lol)… YOU actually put in the work to get better/change your situ… and that is pretty rare… regardless of how much great advice you are getting… as YaReally has pointed out (many times…over…and over…and over…lol) even most men on ‘here’ (probably the most RP enlightened spot on the interwebs) don’t even want to… Read more »
This is probably not the place to ask this but given Niko is a Dr and is good at outside the box thinking I thought I’d chime in with frame and it’s connection to neurotransmitter deficiencies or overactivity. I’m assuming this will only help a very small subset of men but it’s an interesting avenue of discussion nonetheless. Personally, as an undermethylator (gene tested and verified) I’ve found that high histamine foods (glutamate over-expression, excitatory neurotransmitter) sets me off big time, super high anxiety. I’m talking about being scared of my own shadow and even light social engagement becomes terrifying.… Read more »
Had a plate over, while having drinks my phone popped off on the table with a tinder match and message which she quickly glanced at, then pretended not to notice, instant dread.
@Johnycomelately This is probably not the place to ask this lol…if not here, then WHERE?… lol… but given Niko is a Dr and is good at outside the box thinking I thought I’d chime in with frame and it’s connection to neurotransmitter deficiencies or overactivity. I’m assuming this will only help a very small subset of men but it’s an interesting avenue of discussion nonetheless. here’s some outside the box thinking… don’t over-think it…lol… find something that works for you and get in-field…lol… (and i’m really not kidding (or being flippant…lol))… ‘frame’ is just keeping YOUR point of view (MPoO… Read more »
@Sentient, KFG – Hmmm. I move between groups fluidly and have been resistant to many social norms. I don’t enforce the social hierarchy but am often at the top of any social setting I’m in. I actually resist social norms and find those who rigidly enforce compliance to be absurd and often lampoon them or dominate them – or just exit. Not arguing, fyi, just trying to figure this out. I’ve always viewed my social fluidity and ability to move and also be quite happy with extended periods of being alone to be part of my natural alphaness, since encountering… Read more »
scrib: I’m happy for you. You’re free.
yaya that yareally book is def golden. Reading through the scray reports especially. lol, ends up that “hey do I look like a drug dealer?” routine was from him lol. no wonder he said it was solid.
but I am finding my stalker routine is better for me, mostly I think because it ACTUALLY happened to me and because that routine communicates more interest from a girl. I think I will try to do piercing girl and then go into stalker girl.
taking lots of notes now lol
@hank
The drug dealer open is actually form Cajun lol but yea as you saw there’s a reason scray likes it
You’re absolutely right, using a DJV story or opener that actually happened to you is leagues better than using a canned opener or routine, because of the congruence. The point of canned openers or even DHVs was to act as training wheels, to remove the words your saying from your mind. If you’re not focusing 100% on what to say, you can focus on other things, your body language and subcomms, her IOIs etc.
ha, funny I literally just deleted Tinder & Happn before reading the comments today. It has definitely become WAAAAY harder to convert anything worthwhile with those apps for me at least. Worked out my ROI from Tinder was 100% SHIIIIIIT. Literally only got one FB out of it & countless 1st dates with girls uglier in person than their profile. Compare that to my last 40 cold approaches over some 3 days, a total of about 9 hours of socializing – one “almost SNL” lol who may become a reg FB, one solid number that I didn’t screen very well… Read more »
Lot of greek letters flying around here, lol. As noted, each of these systems is necessarily going to be an imperfect model of reality and is only useful as a shorthand way of understanding social dynamics. As soon as you start thinking about it too much it becomes masturbatory. That said, it’s interesting to look at the meta of the thing to understand why these different systems were developed as they were. Vox Day developed his system of alpha/beta/delta/gamma et al as a way of understanding how men form groups and fit within them – as kfg pointed out with… Read more »
@Forge, while I think Vox’s categorizations are useful, I think they sometimes distract or become pigeonholes for guys. Alpha & Beta have always been abstractions to me, and how those mindsets are applied by men usually aligns with their personalities.
@Forge: partially agree. I think the more detailed “hierarchy” may be helpful/appealing to men classifying other men, whereas the less detailed more binary one (which is nevertheless a spectrum) is more useful to describing how women will typically classify specific men.
@HABD Great post Yeah, ultimately there is no comfortable way to get yourself to approach : you have to expect it to be painful for a while until you get used to it. Because let’s face it, if you are commenting on a website about how to get girls, you probably arent a social butterfly lol (except for Hank hahaha). It is also great to force you to go out when things are not optimal, to gather the reference experiences that it’s no big deal if you look/feel like shit, the only thing that matters is to do the right… Read more »
So, weird thing. A FR of sorts I guess. Like 2 months ago I finally had enough of my ex-gf’s ice queen shit and just started straight up pretending she didn’t exist. For my own sanity. Christ, it took me like 2 years but finally I ran out of patience. I was finally just like ‘fuck this, it’s dragging me down and I don’t need to have her fucking with me any more.’ It’s amazing how, in retrospect, all of the little ‘game’ things I thought I was running was just needy behavior. Even when I finally had my shit… Read more »
@Forge: read this for a refresher https://therationalmale.com/2011/09/08/rooting-through-garbage/ Stay rational about this. Avoid that girl, resist the temptation. Not only she works with you, she is or has dating another coworker. Last time you say it took you 2 years to get over the one-itis – part of that is that when things went bad you couldn’t avoid seeing her. Even if you think you are prepared now, having sex can change things for the worse. If you are tempted to risk going through that crap again when there are plenty other women around (apparently even in your work place), consider… Read more »
@Forge the Sky The following essentially rephrases exactly what you mentioned in a different way: There was a discussion last year on TRP reddit last year in which the OP was about: Once a person takes the red pill and their mind has accepted the insights to the ways of the relationship between men and women in our culture, there is no going back. So at this point you have been transformed from a blue pill beta or alpha into a red pill beta or alpha. Are you a red pill alpha? Great! Or, are you a beta? The general… Read more »
@Rollo It’s very easy to just characterize people as alpha by the obvious external ‘confident guy who fucks a lot of women’ and so on. That usage is all over the internet. And as you and a few others note, it lays a bit of a trap in that men will tend to struggle to fit the real world into the model rather than the reverse. Your concept that alpha is a mindset is a paradigm-altering idea. In my opinion that idea is a massive contribution to the redpill, and to masculine development generally. When you recognize alpha as a… Read more »
@IAS I recognize the point you make, and it’s a good one. I spent far too much time and worry back when trying to get her back, even when I KNEW that it was a toxic idea. I’m at a point now where I very solidly don’t want to do that. This little salvo from her kinda took me by surprise, so I was just playing with things to see where it went. And I’m kinda of the frame currently that if some cute girl throws herself at me like this I’m just gonna have fun with the circumstance. If… Read more »
@SJF
Yeah, it looks like they’re flirting with the same idea in that thread. But they have the whole ‘alpha means Chad Thundercock’ definition going, so that muddies the waters quite a bit. They’re trying to find a way to talk about how you can have things like provider skills, kindness, etc and still be attractive to women. Under Rollo’s definition there’s no issue though.
“Alpha & Beta have always been abstractions to me, and how those mindsets are applied by men usually aligns with their personalities.” The difference between Alpha and Sigma is their mindset with regards to the broad social hierarchy. An Alpha, although he sits at the top of it, is still inside it. You can’t lead an army without an army to lead, and to lead an army, you must be part of it. Dominance is not to get to the top of pile, it is to get what you want, and it just so happens that what the Alpha wants… Read more »
“And men can change their personalities and behave differently (and congruently) if they are motivated enough.”
A Gamma can move directly to Delta by the simple expedient of changing his . . . mind.
However much that may be simple, but not easy.
The majority of Alphas are promoted from Beta. The natural Chad Thundercock stereotype, while it exists, is a mind trap.
Note also that Teddy Roosevelt, a stereotype of the Man’s Man, started out as an Omega, who, in another time a place would have been abandoned on a mountainside, just plain worked his way to Alpha
Forge… On your FR “Some girls need to get a clue” Lol. Some guys too! Girl 2 had a clue which is why she tried to block her rival from YOU Starbuck… She didnt want HER to isolate with YOU. How does it feel being the prize? On your girl in her car. When you think you know what is up… PROVE it! Thats what guys who just get it do. You should have just gone over to the driver side, not the passenger side… And leaned in through the window and made out with her and then pulled her… Read more »
@ theasdgamer – “women who aren’t on an imminent crash course with the wall don’t want commitment and betas who have committed don’t typically want sex with other women” Women at all ages do seek commitment. Younger more attractive women can experience more relationships because they have the opportunity to. But they have not abandoned their predisposition to seek commitment in doing so, they are optimizing their opportunities, commitment ie security is their universal longer term goal. Betas desire sex with as many attractive females as possible just as much as alphas do regardless of how much betas lie to… Read more »
@Sentient
Love this shit, haha. Just make out with her, boom. Ya, pulling the trigger is a slow spot for me. Tho to be fair there were a few contingent circumstances here.
@kfg
I agree, mobility in the ranks is certainly possible. I was trying to represent Vox Day’s position, which seems to be mostly “accept your position in the hierarchy!” Though to be fair to his position, most men don’t even get past the denial stage of recognizing their position, let alone changing it.
On another random note, I seem to have come into possession of a violin. It’s a strange life sometimes. Any advice where/how to learn how to use it? Or should I just saw away at the damn thing until something clicks?
Yeahhhh Forge, I don’t think you should take that advice. You are an interesting person, just be yourself.
Forge Well… You went outside to “see what wpuld happen” so…? Dont rationalize it away that nothing was really going to happen because ex post facto it didnt. Here is the takeaway. When you fell the “electricity” it’s real and she feels it too, so it is then up to you as the man to make the move and escalate. Now she maaaay ward you off the first time… Just another test… A few things to say or do Her: whats happening here? You:im just getting to know you. Or Her: what are you doing. You: (channeling mystery) you looked… Read more »
Forge
Two other things. Note yesterday was a full moon. Firm believer in lunar cycle influencing women’s cycles and horniness…
And for this particular situation witht the work girls… You should try being chill with ex and juuuuuust ramping up some flirtiness with thisnother girl juuuuust to see how ex responds… LOL
@Forge the Sky: re: violin — definitely put down finger tapes to start with as you saw away. If you cannot stand Youtube lessons — or are beyond that — a secondary school music teacher may agree to tutor. Is there a local music store (one that sells instruments)? They may have an idea or two.
@yareally @culum @forge @habd @othergrain @pua Opened a lot today. 20 some girls plus some dudes. Discovered many things. ——LONG ASS FR LOL—– first, text from the young girl from last week. I told her I would text her a week later to set up a meetup (she was on vacay until then), but she texted me a day early at around 10pm. “what are you doing?” I texted her around noon the next day “I robbed a few banks, ran away to a tiny island in the ocean, and now several coulumbian models are giving me a back massage.”… Read more »
Rollo, I have read both of your books through a number of times and I believe you are truly exposing essential truths for men worldwide. Incidentally each new read through generates concepts and revelations that I had somehow missed previously. Old age perhaps? Having been immersed in your work for a couple of years now I am familiar with frame and the importance of it but for me as for a lot of guys we have discovered this essential ingredient 25 years too late. We as men got married, had children and did the “right thing” being supportive, sacrificing for… Read more »
@freethinker For guys like us there is no dread game that can be played because she has all the cards and she knows that. It is a totally different game for the single guy with no children, he can push it to the max with nothing to lose, for us we have children we love, most of the money we ever worked for and if you are late fifties like I am precious time to recover if you do split. What cards do you think she has, the ability to live with cats? If the kids are all approaching college… Read more »
@Hank great progress. Great to see you’re opening more girls and getting the patterns and routines down.
Now..and this comes from personal experience…stop “over-gaming”.
The first text exchange where she’s telling you, you sound dangerous and insane…time to dial it down or stop replying.
I only continue that type of banter with girls I’ve banged or who I already know.
Good luck…keep posting.
@Freethinker “We as men got married, had children and did the “right thing” being supportive, sacrificing for the greater good supposedly only to discover slowly that we are being treated as an ATM with legs and we are not the men we used to be. What happened to us? Still expected to be faithful even though irregular sex with the wife is unsatisfying and depressing. We are the frogs in the(now) boiling water wondering how the hell we got here. For guys like us there is no dread game that can be played because she has all the cards and… Read more »
Married Red Pill advice posted in the last hour, first guy
“No woman wants some cocky asshole who does what they want when they want”
Second guy:
“The secret is really to never let yourself go, be the man that other women want, but to also be loyal to your wife”
Since woman are all about nice guys and loyalty according to MRP
@redlight I understand and appreciate your advice BUT youngest is 12 years old I am 58. There is no way I am leaving before she is 18, we are really close and to be honest she is what is keeping me in this marriage. The marriage in itself is not terrible but it’s not what I want either. The 3 of us have great times together but having had my eyes opened I now see the way I was played and it stings! My wife has a very close and extended family who she is in constant contact with and… Read more »
@All
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBnSWJHawQQ&w=420&h=315%5D
BBC mainstream comedy, open hypergamy (awful, just awful):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p040trv9/fleabag-episode-1
@freethinker
You can change your life or drown in a puddle of excuses, it’s up to you, TRP provides you will all the knowledge you need
@freethinker “I understand and appreciate your advice BUT youngest is 12 years old I am 58.” Dude, I’m 57. Have 2 girls who who were 15 and 19 when I split. I was common-law in a jurisdiction that let me get-out-of-jail free – no alimony. I understand your youngest is 12 but at your age it might be better to pull the trigger now, for your sake, if you are really dissatisfied with your spouse and you can afford the cash&prizes. At my age, BP conditioning, and social imprinting I’m finding it difficult to pick up with the sub-38yo crowd.… Read more »
@Culum “@DisgruntledEarthling – One more recommendation for reading the old YaReally advice on text game. It’s in the archive and in the Book of YaReally. ” I keep thinking about my initial response to this advise and I may have not thought much before writing it. YaReally seems to advocate taking it sexual really fast and I have no problem with this when texting. I’ve had a tinder 18yo send me raunchy nudes really fast (including one of her dog licking her pussy – girls with dogs – beware). The 40yo+ crowd seems to be much more conservative. For the… Read more »
Hey Rollo, I like that you plan to post more advice columns on frame etc. My biggest problem is sometimes not knowing how to establish frame. Even though I swallowed the red pill about 10 years ago by signing up to So Suave (when the great Jophils was still around – RIP), my last relationship was a textbook case of Beta cringefest. So much of what you write resonates with me because I can see that I had fooled myself that I had frame because of my wide reading of your work and my time on SS. But nearly the… Read more »
@Forge – Fuck yeah! Your ex has been your unicorn and your kryptonite. I had the same exact experience with my ex-wife, when I would let go and be about another chick or just not her, she’d hop in my bed, and yeah, there was something quite satisfying about her cheating on with me on the guy she left me for, lol. But it fucked with my head cuz I wasn’t Red Pill. It’s kind of hard to see in a way, right? Like the fact that she’s really just playing this power game with you, and that she’s that… Read more »
@Freethinker It is possible to turn things around in a low sex marriage. (Assuming your wife has other good values such as being a good person in general, a good mother to your children and is not addicted to substances and the only real problem is she using her hide the vagina routine as a power move (power that she doesn’t want to give up) and she simply doesn’t want to fuck you right now because it is low priority). It is a third set of books and it has been generated by the Manosphere. It won’t be found in… Read more »
Furthermore:
Excuse the formatting of this MRP comment and realize there is content available.
Freethinker: “For guys like us there is no dread game that can be played because she has all the cards and she knows that.”
Excuse the formatting of this MRP comment and realize there is content available.
https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/2lpafb/the_12_step_plan_of_dread_book_excerpt_from_my/?ref=share&ref_source=link
Sup guys! never got around to writing that FR about Miss Model. which is unfortunate! because it was an awesome day and pick-up. tl;dr a nice summer day at the pool getting fucked up on party favors and moscato = completely destroyed pool area (chairs broken and toppled, sunglasses broken, glasses broken) anyway, after it’s all said and done she’s very upfront about how she just wants to be ‘friends’ and it’s just sex and she wouldn’t want to be my girlfriend blah blah. at first, i’m pissed….but then I remember my training. Super high value guys get “rejected” in… Read more »
FR of sorts. I’m married and over 50, but was traveling for business. At the bar getting dinner and started talking to a couple mid-20 year old chicks – a black chick – okay face, smoking body though, probably a 7, and her friend, a 6. Wasn’t really interested in gaming, but as YaReally and Scray always say, open everyone… It’s great practice. Hook with both of them instantly, and spent the next 2 hours gaming hard. Focused on convo with one and then the other. Laser eyes on both of them. They’re teasing me for being an old man,… Read more »
@SJF
BBP made a mistake calling it the 12 levels of dread, since that makes it about her, the wrong frame. It should have been something like the 12 levels of attractiveness and awareness.
Here’s BBP on “Dread Game is extremely dangerous” and the 3 rules:
https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/4ymlot/psa_reminder_on_dread_game_new_guys_especially/
For some reason Athol Kay and BPP created the worst titles of their books possible. I can understand why though. It is in-group (Redpill) advertising with what they thought would catch attention for their target audience. The problem is the people who needed it most would be out-group (Blue Pill idiologists)–the people that need it most. Doesn’t matter, though, in my opinion. Both did fantastic work on distilling content from the manosphere for married red pill (a very scarce resource). Athol’s original stuff was good (MMSL and MAP) before he jumped the RP shark. The Mindful Attraction Plan was good… Read more »
@Scribb
“Funniest lie that men were ever sold? The idea of “unconditional love” –
Amen brah..
@Fender
I would have… but that’s just me.
The Mindful Attraction Plan was good and helped me get out of the starting gate several years ago–it is straightforward self-improvement (also awarded a stupid Name Award).
Could be wrong, but if I remember right, the MAP was originally “Male Action Plan”. Not a stupid name. That was before he let his wife have increasing authority on the website, starting with comments. Then names began to change, such as MAP.
Going purple pill makes a man stupid.
On Dread Game…yes, don’t announce it unless it’s a hard next.
One thing I’ve said, or texted that has worked when the girl is giving massive amounts of drama is:
“Too much attitude. There’s no need to be in touch. Good luck.”
Then disappear. No matter what she’s done or what you’ve done, she will come begging back.
This text or word structure has worked for me in either cutting it off with dignity or soft-nexting.
lol, MAP whatever the title was changed to as a follow up to MMSL was a seminal work of writing. Who gives a shit if the subsequent purple pill stuff on his blog came along? I was late to the game and never read his blog before it jumped the red pill shark. So what. Despite the non-attractive name Blue Pill Professor’s book is a fantastic distillation of principles for married red pill in dead bedrooms. For married red pill, there are fantastic writers. Like Rollo, Ian Ironwood and BluePillProfessor and Athol Kay’s first two books. And it’s not like… Read more »
One thing I’ve said, or texted that has worked when the girl is giving massive amounts of drama is: “Too much attitude. There’s no need to be in touch. Good luck.” One thing lately my catch phrase in LTR game: “Good luck with that!” Said in follow up to Feminine Imperative logical thinking from the woman. When the woman doesn’t respect direct language from a man. A woman should only be allowed to voice what she feels and she should respect what a man thinks. And I think it has been registering, on occasion with either amused mastery, walking away,… Read more »
@SJF Yes. Something about “good luck”—the vagueness instills dread.
The “Too much drama” establishes a no-nonsense frame. Girls will always demand “Why?????” that’s an easy one.
The “no need to be in touch” is a non butt-hurt way of framing this as you walking away.
I have very high confidence, dickhead confidence. I can be nice to people, but even before I got into game I had been referred to as having an arrogant disposition. Because of this it’s easy to build attraction in a girl. However, I’m terrible at reading women as of to exactly when attracton is at a high level, and I should transfer into comfort. I bumped int a girl tonight who I had met two nights before. End of night. She was drunk and wanted to fuck, but I was being an arrogant dick. Like she brought up how I… Read more »
Ref MAP
Male asset protection.
A network of local business men,not opposed to under the table pay,mechanics liens,or free storage.
@Kate – Nice thought, thanks.
@SJF et al – Re: Dread – I think I blew up my marriage by inducing too much dread the second time it laid the law down. I was being seduced by another woman, and it made me realize what an idiot I was being by hanging in a marriage in which my wife hated me. While I ended this intrigue, it gave my ex a very strange whiff from me, and I could tell it fucked her head up because I started behaving like I had options and they were real and close up. The first time I induced… Read more »
@ Ya Really and anyone else. Apologies for going on a tangent here, however, I have a field report and would like your input. Thanks in advance. Background: I went to the same school with this HB, almost 10 years ago but haven’t seen her since. She was a shy cutie, smart, good girl type. She clearly mistrusted me as she believed I was “a bad boy” and “cocky, arrogant” guy. I never had any serious interest in her because being a natural; I could sense she would be hard work. I did not have time to waste since there… Read more »
Hi em. Ya, I’m a very interesting person. That’s why this girl was so drawn/turned on by me. 😬 You see, all the advice Sentient gave was – hey, she’s attracted to who you’re being here and wants to bang you as a result. So PULL THE DAMN TRIGGER because she won’t. Girls make sex happen by creating openings for it to happen. Rarely by actually initiating. They need some unambiguous action from you first, then BAM she can reciprocate. All ya chicks have this thing where any sort of understanding on the man’s part about needing to make things… Read more »
@Scribblerg Haha yeah, this has been a trip to be sure! I missed the window on this one, I will see if another chance emerges. I have a feeling it just might eventually. 😀 The crazy thing is how incredibly easy (or perhaps I should say, simple but not easy) it was to flip it around. All it took was a) ignoring her for a few weeks, and b) just being my normal value-giving self to other people who were treating me better. Maybe a bit of dread as well, as I’ve been hitting it off platonically with another cutie… Read more »
@Yareally
Hey man, I was wondering what is up with http://yareallyarchive.com site. havent been updated for a while. its kinda annoying reading your material through tiny font comments. any chance for an update soon ?? <3 😀
“its kinda annoying reading your material through tiny font comments”
looks do not matter
Rollo
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/781045169/evolved-a-sweet-satire-of-masculinity-a-tv-pilot