The Red Pill Monthly – Frame

If youtube isn’t your thing you can get the audio archive here.

 

I managed to get some time with Niko once again yesterday. He was kind enough to stay up late and get a talk in for another installment of our semi-regular podcast The Red Pill Monthly (more like bi-monthly recently).

I really liked this one because we delved into some new stuff about Frame and the importance of establishing and maintaining a solid sense of self and purpose in all aspects of a man’s life, but focusing on the interpersonal and intersexual importance of Frame.

The concept of Frame is not my original idea, it’s actually derived from interpersonal psychology. However, way back in my early days at SoSuave I made the connection to the psychological principle and what PUAs of the time were advocating as a means to control in seduction. I begin my Iron Rules of Tomassi with Frame because I’ve always felt that everything else in seduction, and life in general, hinges upon the realities we create for ourselves.

The pop-cultural term for it today is ‘mindset’, but I feel the concept of Frame extends beyond what’s generally a retreading of The Power of Positive Thinking that’s being promoted as mindset now. It certainly plays a part in the entirety of holding Frame, but the overall establishment of Frame with a woman, with other men, with your family or with your employer requires an art that extends past just how one thinks of himself.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #1

Frame is everything. Always be aware of the subconscious balance of who’s frame in which you are operating. Always control the Frame, but resist giving the impression that you are. 

The concept of “frame” is yet another ephemeral idea that had need of a term in the very beginnings of the great masculine awakening that’s become the ‘community’. If memory serves I think it may have been Mystery who first picked up on what’s really a very rudimentary and well established psychological principle. In psych terms, frame is an often subconscious, mutually acknowledged personal narrative under which auspices people will be influenced. One’s capacity for personal decisions, choices for well-being, emotional investments, religious beliefs and political persuasions (amongst many others) are all influenced and biased by the psychological narrative ‘framework’ under which we are most apt to accept as normalcy.

Rather than go into too much depth here I’ll just encourage you to listen to the podcast and we’ll have an open comments thread about Frame. I think it’s good to review some older principles, not just for the benefit of newly Red Pill aware men, but also because I think it’s good to reconsider these ‘standards’ from a perspective of time and where we are as a Red Pill community today.

Frame, and understanding its importance, is the foundation of dozens of other Red Pill principles and applications. As most of my readers know, I try to avoid specific prescriptive advice. I’m not in the business of telling men how to live their lives with formulaic step-by-step Red Pill templates. The Red Pill isn’t one-size-fits-all and men need to interpret their Red Pill awareness according to their personalities, cultural context, social situations and personal beliefs.

That said, in the coming months I will be offering some more generalized, prescriptive ideas or suggestions as to how I feel men might apply certain Red Pill principles in their lives. The 9 Iron Rules are about as close as I come to prescriptive advice, and while I’m not in the business of making ‘Rational Male Men’, after reviewing them with Niko I think that some generalized advice according to Red Pill awareness might be something in the offing.

So, let me know what you think about this ideas as well as any questions or input you have about Frame once you’ve listened to our talk. It runs about an hour and a half. I’m also toying with the idea of discussing each of the Iron Rules in the coming RPM podcasts. Let me know if that’s something you’d be interested in listening to.

Enjoy!

rollo_t

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

229 comments on “The Red Pill Monthly – Frame

  1. King Kunta (?)

    Sounds like you killed it day 1. Day 2 sounds like a lock, the only thing to worry about is ASD from the good Day 1… So just don’t think that you can start right off from where you left… you may find out you can, but if you keep the thought in your mind that this is Day 1 over, you will defuse the ASD monster by NOT acting like it is in the bag, so she will be confused and chase you a bit more actually…

    Get the room if you have no other logistics if you want to bang her… Get a room by the last bounce spot you’ve picked, or in it… and then just whisk her upstairs for another drink…

    You know you got this big fella… How in the world will she not show up? But anyway you BOOK THE ROOM after she says she is coming… she showed up on time last time… don’t over think this…

    Nothing sweeter than a former GF coming back around… My first GF, she was in HS I was in college, we would date every summer for three summers in a row, and every fall, the first two summers, she broke up with me… LOL But yeah it was always like not a day had passed. I am sure if I saw her today it would be the same thing… I love that intimacy with a woman again after a period of time apart…

    Have fun!

  2. Who gives a shit if the subsequent purple pill stuff on his blog came along?

    Well, any thinking individual who wishes to be aware of the quality of on line resources, for a start. If a man asked me about Athol Kay’s blog, I’d steer him away from it for obvious reasons. The first book? Probably worth the cost, although there are better ones now as you surely agree.

    I was late to the game and never read his blog before it jumped the red pill shark.

    So? What does your personal history have to do with facts about Athol’s MAP?

  3. @ Sentient

    Thanks for the tips man…Really appreciate it. I agree with your point on ASD. I though about that today. I am looking at option on best logistics right now. I’ll send her a little confirmation text tomorrow, then book the place.

    Once again thanks.

  4. It’s a shame what Athol’s thing has become… but you need to seriously question anyone who is doing this stuff for full time coin (Rollo is ancillary… everyone elseshilling stuff has a business model they are following and you need to pay attention to it.).

    But I grew a lot via MMSL years ago.. when the forum first started… Via Vox’s Alpha Game Plan link, which I initially thought was a finance site LOL…

    Interesting that most of the blogs (Rollo, Roissy etc.) have taken down the MMSL links…

    Funny though, that BBP is pushing dread.. having success with this and talking about it, among other things, was why AK banned me one day out of the blue at his site…

    There was always a large group of forum guys who went 98% there but never hit the dread button… and they never advanced.

  5. @scray

    Thanks for the fr, I was laughing at the whole among situ. Well played.

    @hank re:your huge fr

    All good stuff, not much to add EXCEPT your texting vacation girl. I cringed hardcore when I read that. Probably because I did pretty much exactly the same thing not all that long ago.

    Over gaming, man. You’re trying to hook her but YOU ALREADY DID and now she’s just seeing what’s up and if logistics work to move things forward soon. Or pinging you cause she’s bored/horny and wants to see if you’re down for sexting.

    And then you just say a bunch of weird random shit that you think is teasing her but you can’t tell if she gets it or is in a mood for it cause it’s text and now she doesn’t know what to make of you or your intentions. And waiting a long time to text her back but having carefully crafted replies which makes you seem like you’re just being a dick lol.

    Try stuff like this for example:

    Her: What are you doing? (Note it’s 10pm she’s prolly in bed by herself)
    You: loving life. Still on vacation?
    Her: yup, back tomorrow!
    (Option a: move logistics forward)
    You: cool, give me a call when you get back! We should get together soon.
    (Option b: vibe and escalate to maybe do some sexting)
    You: (something relevant to her vaca like) bet you’ve done some exciting things at (place) OR Getting some good tan lines?;p
    Her: yeah, I’m pretty wiped out lol
    You: poor baby. Too bad I can’t work out your sore muscles for you

    And just ping like that and gauge response. Give her something that she could respond to with a biiiit more sexuality or just platonically depending on her mood. IF SHES IN THE MOOD SHE WILL CHASE ANYTHING SUGGESTIVE STRAIGHT DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE. Just give her a chance. If she responds like ‘yeah they had a massage place but it was like $80 so I skipped it, regrets lol’ then she’s probably not in the mood and you just drop it. If she’s like ‘oh that sounds amazing right now’ then SLOWLY escalate.

    It’s very difficult to get a girl in the mood over text. She either is or he isn’t to start with (which is why your approach fizzled, you can’t change her state enough that way). Actually turning a girl on typically takes subcomms, which needs face to face interaction.

    I don’t want to fixate in on the one negative thing in what I think is overall a very excellent field report. You’re doing a lot of work out there. You don’t need help with those parts.

  6. So? What does your personal history have to do with facts about Athol’s MAP?

    Well, I read the book which contained his MAP. And read his MMSLP. Which are both on the MRP reddit sidebar–an endorsement of theiron red pill value. So they shouldn’t be dismissed in red pill awareness/learning.

    I never read the blog so if it has purple pill issues, well, that is separate. And should be avoided by red pill enthusiasts.

    The MAP book was good and simple and straightforward and is still a good read. BPP’s was a distillation of that and a lot more. Cost means nothing in context of their ridiculously inexpensive price. Of course a man’s time and desire for content does. I recommend reading both.

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  8. @forge

    Over gaming, man. You’re trying to hook her but YOU ALREADY DID and now she’s just seeing what’s up and if logistics work to move things forward soon. Or pinging you cause she’s bored/horny and wants to see if you’re down for sexting.

    was just trying to practice text game there. girl was kinda iffy since she’s like 17 and wasn’t sure how I was going to deal with her. just planned to meet her to run jester on and get in her social circle where I could meet more people.

    trying to balance between just straight up “meet me at x play at y time” and having a bit of game in there. text game is hard to calibrate since neither she or you can get much of a body language read on them. stuff I do in person that works well doesn’t work over text.

    And waiting a long time to text her back but having carefully crafted replies which makes you seem like you’re just being a dick lol.

    that’s just how I talk. really didn’t think about my responses that much lol.

    I don’t want to fixate in on the one negative thing in what I think is overall a very excellent field report. You’re doing a lot of work out there. You don’t need help with those parts.

    actually, that is where I need more responses lol. Since I don’t live in a very good location, it is hard to go out and work on this stuff. And since I have no real experience with girls I have no experience in “IOI = makeout = sex”. So while I can logically look at stuff and say “okay, here the girl liked me and I was doing well until x happen” it is hard to get my brain to fully work off of that because it wants to say “yeah TECHNICALLY the girl was laughing and investing in you and wanting to know all about you, but DID SHE REALLY? I mean, she didn’t ACTUALLY go out with you. . .”

    so that’s where its nice to have one of those FR breakdowns like yareally did for scray back in the day, and is why i have been trying to get yareally to do some for mine. because it really helps to have someone more experienced point out SPECIFICALLY where things were going well, to note WHERE I was moving things forward. Like “This here is leading directly to sex. add in a cold read and you’d spike enough BT to have her want to have sex with you. You still have logistics to deal with, but TECHNICALLY at that point she would WANT to have sex with you.”

    that way, even though it isn’t quite as good as actually getting from IOIs to sex, it is an okay substitute and helps me to get the confidence to do more and to push things further and get more into my cold reads and such. Whereas now, like this past FR in particular I was feeling a pretty significant snap back in my confidence where I was doubting myself since I hadn’t had any detailed comments to reassure myself I was headed in the right direction.

    so, yeah, I generally KNOW the stuff I am doing wrong. Right now it is more important to point out the things I am doing RIGHT.

    once I move and have more venues and more girls I like, then can switch back to focusing more on things I am doing wrong

  9. @hank

    “was just trying to practice text game there. girl was kinda iffy since she’s like 17 and wasn’t sure how I was going to deal with her. just planned to meet her to run jester on and get in her social circle where I could meet more people.”

    Fine, but that doesn’t change much. Just work for the meetup not sexting.

    “trying to balance between just straight up “meet me at x play at y time” and having a bit of game in there. text game is hard to calibrate since neither she or you can get much of a body language read on them. stuff I do in person that works well doesn’t work over text.”

    Yes, it IS hard. Hence my extensive reply lol

    “that’s just how I talk. really didn’t think about my responses that much lol.”

    No, but SHE doesn’t know that. I get that this comes naturally to you. But this is why socially adept people adapt a generic persona. They have learned over the experience of many social interactions that it takes time for people to understand the idiosyncrasies of your personality. You need to demonstrate your ability to be calibrated and normal first. Edgelords try to be overly ‘unique’ and disdain people for being ‘conformist.’ It’s the mark of a undersocialized person to try to be too unique to quickly. (That’s not you; I’m just demonstrating the dynamic) The social person understands that it takes a while for person to get to know you enough for you to really reveal your uniqueness to them.

    But

    ” right now it is more important to point out the things that I am doing RIGHT.”

    I’m down with that. That reasoning makes sense to me; I’ll see what I can contribute to your positive feedback as well lol.

  10. @hank

    “Was just trying to practice text game there.”
    “Really didn’t think about my responses that much lol.”

    So which is it? Practice applying what you’ve learned *should* work, and seeing for yourself (like you’ve been doing during your in person interactions) or just winging it, badly?

    Just to summarize, it took you 18hrs and 15min to sent 4 text messages. And they not just aloof (which only works if you have high enough value to her) but disqualify her. No shit you lost her lol

    Why would a 17yo girl waste her time talking to THAT when she can do a million other things that are more interesting or give her more validation? What value have you provided with those texts? If you wanted to go that route of gaming and spiking BT again (which you don’t need at this point, see forges response and mine below) why not bring her INTO that role-playing awesome world you live in, where you’re doing fresh Columbian blow and getting massages from 4 models?

    Even up until your last text, shes loling and responding VERY quickly, and then you flat out insult her, which like you said, face to face, would be very different, but over text, she’s basically done investing in you.

    Now, contrast that to julien “such a slut…” text. Definitely an insult, but he uses it to get ANY text back, then calls her and smooths it over and games accordingly, with calibration. So his insult is a tool, and one that moves the interaction forward (her not on her phone, thinking about him, to her probably thinking about ONLY him. And he knows shes looking at her phone).

    At the end of the day, no worries, it’s not the first girl you’ve lost and it won’t be the last. The important thing is what you learn from it.

    “she texted me a day early at around 10pm.

    “what are you doing?””

    Like forge said she’s probably alone in bed (you said still on vacation with her parents?) and a horny-butt. This is exactly what a booty call looks like fyi 😉. but, since you know there is no way to meet up(vaca), options are limited. Forge pretty much nailed it with what he laid out: sexting or logistics for day2

    “I robbed a few banks, ran away to a tiny island in the ocean, and now several coulumbian models are giving me a back massage.”

    How does this move the interaction forward? How does it give her an easy way to respond? Not to mention you blew it with her being in the mood 14 hours ago lol. Don’t worry, I did the same thing yesterday with a girl who was clearly going down the sexting rabbit hole at 530 in the afternoon and I broke it with a boring logical question. She was out of town and I wasn’t in the mood for that.

    She responds back “sounds swell” because she doesn’t know what to say (because you didn’t lead her in any direction) but she does want to keep talking to you, else she wouldn’t have sent anything at all, let alone so quick

    And you Push calling her your grandma, but you don’t Pull her back saying:” no, you think it’s adorable and it brings out the southern gentleman in you, hang up the old whip and chains for good, unless she’s into that 😉”

    But it’s noon the next day so you have to warm her back up to sexy chat.

    You then agree and amplify, she lols and calls you dangerous…all good, just break that topic and work on logistics, she should be back from vaca that day right?

    As you’ve just learned, texting has some very different nuances than face to face. Each text needs to either sexualize, or move things towards a meetup. Your response to her “wyd?” Text was better than most chodes “jc watching the Olympics, u?” Except that even that chode asked her a follow up lol. One of the best ways to dhv or sexualize over text is role play. Since it can be so creative (insert Southwark imaginationland) you can spin anything she says into sexual roleplay within one to two texts.

    Save her number and hit her up in a week.

  11. Hi em.
    Ya, I’m a very interesting person. That’s why this girl was so drawn/turned on by me. 😬

    Possibly, but I doubt it. Attraction is generally much more shallow than that.

    You see, all the advice Sentient gave was – hey, she’s attracted to who you’re being here and wants to bang you as a result. So PULL THE DAMN TRIGGER because she won’t.

    Sure. I get that.

    How do you pull the trigger though? Because grabbing the girl and making out with her just cause she gave you a few looks is not how it works in my experience. That sounds like something that would happen in an erotic novel, not real life. I’ve dated and hooked up quite a few times, and never did that happen to me.

    Human beings generally talk first. And don’t say repeat lines they hear online like parrots. As I said, you are charismatic, just talking to her is more than enough. If actual attraction is there it won’t take long before you progress.

    I agree that girls approach this all very differently. But there is a difference between being decisive and being robotic. The advice I was hearing sounded like the latter, that’s all.

  12. Hello and thanks, RT (and the Manosphere) for the oh-so informative and supportive forum. I just joined SS as well. Thus, at once please permit me the opportunity to both provide a little education as well as an anecdote re: my recent fall from Alpha-grace, if you will. And forgive me please if this is not the best place for the post or if some of my thoughts are muddled but being new to the blogosphere…well, you know. -Halp
    ……………………………………………………………………………..
    Re: prior posts (e.g. on SS) pertaining to HSV/Herpes:

    Despite being a board certified physician – after unwittingly either giving or possibly contracting HSV2 from a now ex-fiance’ (more on that ‘of all the people to maybe unknowingly give herpes to’ below. BPD/Cluster B features run strong in that one) – I too did some brushing up on this irritating yet manageable STD.

    -First outbreak of Herpes can occur essentially any time after you have been infected; yep, b/c of the bizarre workings of our immune system, that could be months or even years later.

    -Something like 20% of the ‘population’ has it.

    -Rx (e.g. Acyclovir – an ‘anti-viral’) are available via your physician, are generally well-tolerated and can help (e.g. lessen duration of an outbreak).

    -You can give and receive this nasty little bugger (i.e. virus – it’s not a bacteria or really a bug, fellas) pretty much any time if you/they are infected; you/they need not have an active outbreak to transmit.
    …………………………………………………………………………
    Now for a word on providing full-disclosure to the non-ONE whom views you as the ONE.

    If you have any question about something going on with your penis go get checked out by your doc, wear a condom (although not necessarily terrific v. preventing HSV spread) or as others on SS have alluded – TELL her something is up (sorry). While you’re not sure what – you want to wear a condom, wanted to talk with her, etc. before sex.

    My situation was such that I had occasional folliculitis via friction from condoms and what I thought was molluscum contagiosum (i.e. a relatively benign STI/D). I also was a relatively newly diagnosed diabetic (yah, f’in immune system, etc.); thus, I had fungal infections ‘down there’ on occasion.

    So while I never had a herpes outbreak, didn’t know I had herpes and while it IS possible my now ‘ex-fiance” could have given it to me (try telling that to a woman you later discovered has BPD. Trust gone…check!), I wish I had spoken with her about the folliculitis, the molluscum or irritation ahead of time and at least demanded we use a condom.

    Yah, all ‘don’t beat yourself up’, ‘clearly there was a lot going on with her re: trust long b/f you met her’ and other caveats and disclaimers aside – I was an IDIOT to not at least tap the breaks on that second date…

    And yes, I am hanging my head in relative shame for violating RT’s iron rules; what was I thinking?!

    Clearly, even those of us who are otherwise ‘informed’ drop the ball with these things from time-to-time and anything can (will?) happen…

    So despite many red flags (e.g. ‘why did she feel guilty about collecting child support from her dead-beat ex’, ‘why did she defend those whom wronged her/her kids’, ‘did she really ask me if I’d prescribe her Adderall – a controlled substance??) that were present BEFORE she had her “first” outbreak of what turned out to be HSV2 – I played ‘doctor’ to myself and did not get checked out/tested to make SURE I didn’t have something other than pretty evident pubic folliculitis or molluscum contagiosum.

    Stooopid of me.

    Even though I didn’t get my first outbreak of clear HSV til a couple MONTHS after her – I felt the need to fall on the sword, so to speak, and stop trying to rationally explain any of the alternative arguments to her assertion that I KNOWINGLY gave her HSV. Oh man. While I was and AM her ONE/Soulmate, blah blah blah – she now will RATIONALIZE, avoid doing her own work in therapy (yep, even though she IS a therapist herself)…avoid confronting the elephants in the room (e.g. Stockholm Syndrome, post-Wallism) and use HSV2 as a reason to rage against me, validate her distrust of men, etc. etc..

    …yep, even being relatively ‘experienced’ I was NOT consistent with Red Pill mentality; did I really think that this one with a history of trauma, abuse, kids w 2 different dads, etc etc was ‘fixable’??

    BPD = YOU cannot fix them. And for various reasons, they will not likely hit their own rock bottom and do the hard work to regain that confidence and self-respect they sooo badly need unless or even if you walk or better RUN away.

    Alphas, before your marrow gets sucked clean, get out of the dysfunctional relationship!

    It did not get to that point with me/us. However, it did get…rough.

    I was (am??) her White Knight.

    I repeatedly experienced the fallout from her guilt re: her kids’ sh*t fathers & insecurities which lead to repeated crash landings on US (i.e. she’d breakup with me only to come back when I Alpha’d-up).

    And finally, paradoxically so, she snapped after I empathized with her and encouraged her to collect child support from her dead beat ‘ex’; you know, do the legally responsible thing for your kids rather than play martyr, etc…the same limits and behaviors she advises her therapy clients to set/enact. How dare I suggest such a ‘rationale’ course of action.

    So now, after getting the RING back (yes, ‘whew!!’ but what was I thinking?!), I believe her when she tells me she is “depressed”, “heartbroken”, “furious” with me. Yes, she is indeed a mess; I saw her yesterday at work (I know, I know); she looks like she is kicking herself for screwing up the best thing that ever happened to her…because she has. Oh, BTW, she called me the other night to again vent, cast blame for failed relationship, let me get her aroused over the phone (yes, the desire for me is VERY strong but with BPD – all bets in the Game can be off) and lastly, tell me she cancelled her appointment with her child-support attorney and now has her dead-beat ‘ex’ and his kid LIVING with her. Yah, at that point I said good-night and wished her the best, expressed concern for her well-being. Hey, while likely not going to solve anything, I felt better in laying out the terms, reframing.

    So while she may continue to rage & cry about how vindictive and cruel I am for suggesting she set limits with those whom have abused and traumatized her (e.g. father, sister, ex-bf, ex-spouse) – at least I have finally recaptured some Frame and walked away from a situation that could have gotten much much worse.

    Hindsight-disclaimers aside my herpes ‘guilt’, my self-imposed diminishing SMV in effort to be the White Knight, my erroneous drifting in to the ‘lonely old man’ mythos and my leveraging power due to my misguided assumption that I NEEDED a step-mother for my kids all were factors that lead me off the Alpha path….a path I so frequently previously had walked…but not consistently enough!

    The overriding Cluster B/BPD dynamics I/WE cannot FIX and, I would argue, should not OVERTLY try. We can only modify our own behavior and thru that provide a conducive setting for others to do the same…if they so CHOOSE.

    As Rollo and Bill Belichick have so often correctly stated – “it is what it is”. Sometimes you just can’t explain ‘their’ behavior; this is NOT a rational thing.

    Often I/we would be better served to simply walk away; sooner is ALWAYS less painful than later. I’ll never know if I had been a true Alpha/Man early on and not enabled her self-destructive (and relationship sabotaging) traits to persist if she would have hit her rock-bottom earlier and sought therapy, if not made some genuine changes in her life.

    That I know she is hurting much more than me, that I know SHE knows she NEEDS me a heck of a lot more than the converse (i.e. yep, I have put away the Beta and truly appreciate my SMV, overall relationship ‘power’) does little to mitigate the regret/’what was I thinking’, that pit-in-the-stomach ache over ‘loss’ (yes, even if for the best) or lessen the objectively crappy feeling present in having to watch someone you care about spiral down.

    Lesson learned.
    —————————————–
    In any event, just some thoughts from an evolving Alpha new on the scene. Thanks for your support and let me know how I may support you, the ‘Manosphere’.

    -Halp

  13. Interesting.

    It all comes down to seeing yourself as the person you at least want to be and then doing it. No prisoners. Just be and do what is best for you and your long term goals. Anyone or anything that gets in the way of that needs to be pushed to the side–you’re on a mission. People either aid you or they hinder you in that mission. Those that hinder need to go–quickly.

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