Trust Issues

I was driving with a friend of mine and his wife to a promo last month. The parking at this particular gig was packed so it made sense to take one car and as I sat in the back seat I observed the behaviors and connected them to the conversation his wife and he were having while we drove. He was driving as well as any other guy I know; observant, careful, efficient, casual, basically a good driver, I didn’t even give his driving much mind. However, judging from the nervousness and fidgety behavioral tics of his wife you’d think he was drunk and reckless.

She clung tightly to the “oh shit” handle you see above the passenger-side window in most SUVs today. Her body language was one of fear trying to maintain polite composure, but every time we’d slow for traffic or a stop she would gesture with her hands as if she were bracing herself for impact. She simply did not trust her husband in the driver’s seat. She’d insist he switch lanes miles ahead of a turn so as to be ready to make the turn, or she’d coyly ask him to slow down when we were on the highway.

I see this a lot in couples where the power dynamic is one where the woman is the tacit authority of the relationship. These two were a textbook example. The buzz word term for it is ‘passive aggressive’ behavior, but that behavior is prompted by a root-level influence of women’s security need. My friend, being the Beta he is, made every attempt to calm his wife’s fears by accommodating her passive (and some not so passive) posturing and requests. It still wasn’t enough. She simply doesn’t trust the man she’s been married to for 10 years with her safety – regardless of his actions.

Now, from a Red Pill perspective, it’s important to bear in mind that women are always looking for an emotional rush whether positive or negative. I detail this in Indignation but in the absence of indignation, women will actively create it for themselves. Any PUA worth his salt knows that leaving an emotional impression on a woman is a key to seduction. Some men can do this effortlessly and often unaware depending on the social context and circumstances he surrounds himself with. These are guys we think are ‘naturals’ even though the learning process and the trial, error, reward mechanisms of it for him are just an internalized part of his personality. However, making this emotional impression can be learned, expressed ‘naturally’ and it can be internalized.

When we look at the dual nature of Hypergamy we tend to focus primarily on the Alpha Fucks side of women’s sexual strategy. For obvious reasons, it’s the part guys tend to have the most interest in, and since seduction is the key to STRs and LTRs, it’s also the part guys need to develop most. It’s tough for most Blue Pill men to behave counter to what their conditioning has taught them. Just like my friend’s driving here, most guys believe that comfort, trust, rapport, friendship, appeasement, and generally self-sacrificing are what’s at the heart of a good relationship. All of course based on the mystical “open communication” trope.

Selfish vs Self-Interest

Vox Day had an interesting back and forth with Kitten Holiday about this dynamic this weekend:

For men who’ve been conditioned to believe that the key to success with women is to play nice and solve women’s problems for them with patient understanding, suggesting selfishness is attractive to women is counterintuitive. However, agreeableness and humility in men have been associated with a negative predictor of sex partners. So is it selfishness that makes a guy attractive or arousing?

I’ve suggested in the past that it is actually men who dare to place themselves at the center of their lives who make the most significant emotional impact upon women. This emotional impression is a byproduct of men who make themselves their first priority and when this prioritization becomes an internalized second nature to a man we say that he’s made himself his Mental Point of Origin.

I’m clarifying this here because it’s easy to conflate ‘enlightened self-interest’ with “selfishness”. A common criticism among the MGTOW set is that a man investing himself into anything with the express purpose of attracting women is vanity or wasted effort. However, it’s defining the point where this personal investment in oneself crosses over into having the effect of being an attractive trait to women that needs some more clarification. I covered this in Crisis of Motive, and unfortunately, it’s a line that’s subjective to the man who’s invested himself in virtually anything that uniquely benefits him and is attractive/arousing for women.

So we have two countermanding imperatives here. Men are conditioned, personally and publicly, to believe that niceness, comfort, and trust are the keys to success with women (whom we are told will have an affinity and appreciation for it). All of these Blue Pill qualities are pro-social attributes, yet in practice, in the real world, we observe men with anti-social, ‘selfish’ interest are rewarded with women’s attention. Self-interested men make a more significant emotional impression.

When we contrast this with the two aspects of women’s sexual strategy we see that the Blue Pill (pro-social) traits align with the Beta Bucks side of Hypergamy, while the ‘selfish’ (anti-social) aspects align with the arousing Alpha Fucks desires of women. For the Blue Pill invested man, it’s baffling to see how ‘selfish’ men are rewarded with intimacy, genuine desire, and sex. What they lack is a complete understanding of women’s dual sexual natures.

“So I gotta be an asshole to get women to notice me? Chicks really dig jerks?”

I’ve been reading this response from newly unplugged nice guys for as long as I’ve been writing. It’s the binary response I’ve come to expect from guys still on the fence with regard to Red Pill awareness, but it goes back to the negative associations they have with making themselves their own mental point of origin. It’s ‘selfishness’ not self-interest and this is exactly the opposite of what they’ve been taught will resolve problems for them.

This then comes back to my first point about women’s need for security. I’ve been married for over 20 years now, and for as good a marriage as I have, I still have my doubts that Mrs. T trusts me implicitly with her life.

It’s ironic because I actually saved her life when we were first married. There was a very swift moving river we used to walk our dogs along when we lived in Tahoe. It was spring and the river was high from snowmelt runoff, and it was cold – as in take your breath away before you’re paralyzed cold. One of our dogs had spied a few ducks on the opposite side of the river and bolted into it to go after them. About half way across he realizes it was a stupid idea and turns back. He couldn’t make it and the river swept him downstream. We both ran down the river after him to a point where he’d pass and Mrs. T jumped in to catch him. She goes numb in seconds, but she caught the dog by the collar. I know I’m going to have to go in to get them now so I prep in my head what to do. I get in now and grab the dog and bodily throw him up on the steep bank. Then I do the same with Mrs. T right before the water is so cold I can barely move. I managed to grab a large tree root in the bank I’d seen earlier to haul myself out.

In spite of that very memorable event, I’m not sure I have my wife’s implicit trust in this respect. I know that sounds bad, but even after all of that, there was no acknowledged appreciation for it. I was just doing what a man is expected to do. In many other aspects, I have my wife’s trust, but I wonder if the want for an emotional impression isn’t buffered by a need for security.

In my friend’s case, this lack of trust is manifested in his wife’s demeanor and interactions with him. The more Beta the man a woman’s paired herself with the more evident her need for security becomes a part of their relationship. Remember that security comes in many different forms. It’s entirely possible for a dutiful Beta to be a great provider, but still not be trusted with his decision making or his capacity to protect his woman from harm.

Women today are already raised to never put their trust in men as it is. Men are at best lovable buffoons, at worst untrustworthy incorrigible players. Popular culture directs women to only rely on themselves, to only trust in their own, implicitly correct decisions and directions – and then absolve them of any negative consequence of those decisions. Thus, we have several generations of women who claim the authority role in their LTRs and relegate their men to only marginally trusted companions.

All of that said, I would suggest that men opt to not concern themselves with so-called “trust issues” with women. Women’s feral nature is founded in Hypergamy and part of that nature will always be to doubt the quality of the man she’s paired herself with. It may seem ‘selfish’, but placing yourself as your first priority will be far more appreciated and accepted than a man attempting to endlessly earn the trust from a woman that can only be temporal at best. Your lack of concern over her status of trusting you will have much more impact than trying to appease her for it.

Beta men are endlessly told that a woman’s trust and rapport, her comfort level with a guy, is essential to her being intimate or sexual, or having a good relationship. Those are the guys who feel the sting the most when they see a woman at her feral best fuck the hot guy she met the same night who made a significant emotional impression on her. The guy who invested his interests in himself and she happened to be along for his ride.

Trust is just a convenient term used by women to vet for Beta men. ‘Trust’ only amounts to a list of prerequisites and rules for a Beta who believes it’s his duty to fulfill them, which are never an afterthought for women with more Alpha men.

373 comments

  1. The core difference between an Alpha and a Beta is that the Alpha invests the results of his performance burden in himself, a Beta in a succession of women who fleece him for all he has.

    When they say opposites attract, they are correct in that men who are non-dominant and avoid conflict, attract women who are domineering and conflict seeking.

    I have no doubt that in your friend’s head he was working very hard to not tell her “shut the hell up” or some variant thereupon, yet he didn’t want the fight.

  2. In MRP it is often written “Trust, but verify” with respect to women.

    We should not mind if women take the same type of approach, which is basically what they are (consciously or not) doing when shit testing someone they are in a LTR with.

  3. It doesn’t matter weather you drive a Yugo or a Kenworth,If you don’t show enough Alpha and beta supplicate a woman she will not trust your judgment.Thank God & Rollo I don’t have to go through that front seat back seat driver crap anymore.

    I have a friend,he is 6’10, mechanic,laid back.His wife was at the end of her pregnancy,so he was supplicating.On the way to the hospital 30mi away she freaks on the coffee pot,they go back to check,as a result he ends up delivering the baby on the side of the road.When they got to the hospital,wrong door locked,wee hours of the morning,he’s covered in amniotic fluid 6’10 banging on the glass door,call security.poor guy.Everything turned out ok she still divorced him later for other reasons?

    Trust me,never trust anyone who says trust me.

    Had an interesting convo with liquor store guy his wife is a brunett gal aka blond without benefits.He was telling me about these whimpy guys with fat wallets and fine women,the women tell them what booze to buy and to tip him[he has great game]then when his cash is gone they move on.Like for the guy blowing his wad is the same as blowing his wad only he isn’t getting any.

  4. Passive-Aggressiveness is something I encounter all the time. It’s exhausting to deal with because you have to be saying “no” and basically being an asshole all the time.

    The “Trust issues” seem strongest in girls who display Cluster B traits and who project their mommy issues onto me.

    I see this in situations where I’m taking a Latin dance class and the girl doesn’t “Trust” me to know the sequence being taught.

    I see these “trust issues” when ordering a pizza.

    They become endless shit-tests requiring Agree and Amplify, Amused Mastery and constant “soft-nexts”.

    How to conquer? Choose better girls.

    The second part of this dynamic is the girl who “trusts” her man and then goes nuts when something doesn’t work out—the vindaloo is too spicy.

    The idea of “trust” is used as a club: “I trusted you…”

    One girl I gamed told me “I wasn’t sure if I should go out with you…”

    I said “You’re probably right…” We never went out again after that because she flaked and I never followed up.

    This requires unshakeable confidence because no matter what you do, you have to believe you’re right in doing it.

  5. Good to see this topic up cos it’s well timed for me; I’m having trouble with this stage of my development.
    It could just be the ‘don’t be selfish’ which I would be given if I simply wasn’t being deferential enough as a youngster, but it’s also the feeling of this change would be abandoning the male drive to be part of something that is larger than yourself.
    Women naturally put themselves first every time, and it seems like centering on yourself makes you more like them.

  6. Wild Ride

    My oldest sister god bless her pea pickin heart,married this alpha guy with fire in his eyes,had a couple kids and started fucking the bad boys.
    Thanksgiving 1983 this guy shows up at our door,and starts chewing on Mrs.Box seems he thought she knew and didn’t tell him,true dat.I calmed him down made him stay for dinner and a drive in the mountains.
    Beautifull day frost on the pines,the whole world was shimmering.I loaded everyone into the old GMC,v6 automatic drum brakes,and drove up from 7k to 9k about 12 miles of dirt road shear cliffs on both sides,mostly one lane with a few passing spots.
    At the top of this road was a junction with a two lane paved road going down the creek it was closed.Mrs. Box was adamant about not going the same way we came up,against my better judgment I opened the gate and took the pavement,bad mistake.
    Down in the canyon with no sun and humidity from the creek the road was sheet ice all the way to the bottom.There was no stopping that truck,hairpin curves,bridges,Mrs.Box screaming in my ear the kids screaming in the camper and my sisters now beta husband trying to calm them down,I pumped the brakes all the way down the canyon,barely keeping it on the road till I found an exit into some deep snow and stopped it.I put the chains on and finished the nice drive.
    There for about 15 minutes he forgot about his cheating wife and maybe for the next day or two he was thankful to be alive.

  7. @ Rollo

    Great post. I dug the River story and it has me in deep thought.

    But the car thing… that’s really in my wheelhouse. Later for that though.

    This nugget of truth jumped off the screen at me-

    ” Women today are already raised to never put their trust in men as it is. Men are at best lovable buffoons, at worst untrustworthy incorrigible players. Popular culture directs women to only rely on themselves, to only trust in their own, implicitly correct decisions and directions – and then absolve them of any negative consequence of those decisions. Thus, we have several generations of women who claim the authority role in their LTRs and relegate their men to only marginally trusted companions.”

    When I was in my mid 20’s, I started to notice that even in r&b music there was this theme that ” men ” couldn’t be trusted, and that women could only depend on themselves and each other. The momentum built slowly at first but then erupted in a fever pitch in the mid 80’s with Janet Jackson’s What Have You Done For Me Lately tune. In my mind, it was the beginning of the Strong Independent Woman meme to come. Chicks everywhere were singing that damn song in guy’s faces.

    Now? I’m not even sure if young’ins even really know ‘ trust ‘.

    I’ll let you in on a secret, since it’s just you and me talking… Trust is something I value quite a bit. It’s always been that way for me in life. It still moves me when people trust in me or my word. It’s a dangerous way to think in 2016, but it’s an shortcoming that I have not been able to overcome.

    Admittedly, I am upside down for the times. That’s a surefire way to tell that one is getting up there in age, the anachronism. For instance, I was taught strongly, to Just Be Myself. The caveat being that ” yourself ” had to be something worth being. I kinda take/took pride in being able to be at ease no matter where I go in life, or what situation I find myself in. I’m myself at a Board Meeting or in a corner Bodega.

    Even when interacting with females. Always. Thank God I’m not 21 anymore. He he heee.

    The article has me in thought. I’m pretty sure the wife trusts me implicitly…but… No farm will be bet on this until further thought can be given. I haven’t had to jump in a freezing river yet, lol, but I had a convo with wifey once about cruise ships. The jist of it was that if she fell overboard, I’d have to jump in after her and because we both suck ass at swimming, we’d be two drowned people. But even with that statement, I do not recall any comment from her or any general reaction. Zfg because I know myself, but still it’s food for thought.

    It’s bad strategy for a man to seek the trust of a woman imo. One would assume that over time a man could demonstrate a measure of trustworthiness, but to expect outright reciprocation could result in failure and hurt feelz. Much like seeking outright appreciation.

    Anyway, thank you for the article, and at least an entire week’s worth of thinking ahead.

  8. Well done Rollo! I appreciate the precision of language and (obviously) my real world evidence supports the reasoned deduction you repeat here, i.e., that women are driven subconsciously and their minds rationalization machines that lag behind their emotions.

  9. “I’ve been married for over 20 years now, and for as good a marriage as I have, I still have my doubts that Mrs. T trusts me implicitly with her life.”

    I’m sure Mrs. T trusts you with her life, but there’s a difference between her putting her life in your hands intentionally and you saving her from something (sorta) unexpected (if she thought she could handle saving the dog herself).

    If a guy’s mental point of origin is himself, is it surprising that a woman would subconsciously not trust him to save her over him? If she knows, deep down, that she’s replaceable to him…

  10. I actually had a girlfriend once do me that way(Rollo’s car ride story in the beginning). We argued because her behavior was so random and she was pissing me off. We had gone on vacation in DC and Philly visiting historical sites. The vacation was perfect until then, and I was pissed at the out of nowhere drama behavior.
    Real talk. I literally pulled the car on the side of the road and told her to get the fuck out! She stopped nagging and we drove on. That night we got a hotel near Bristol, Tennessee. That night we humped like rabbits, & afterwards she apologized. I never understood this experience until Rollo’s articles.
    To be truthful, I probably would have gone Blue Pill and accommodating her, but I was so pissed that she was ruining our awesome vacation that I could do nothing but go off on her. Surprisingly rewarded with an intense sexual reaction from her that night, that at the time I didn’t understand at all.
    All I was thinking was,”This was my vacation I wanted to take and planned everything for us to do, because it was what I wanted to do. How dare she ruin this for me?”
    This was something I was interested in and how dare she ruin it for me!

  11. @yareally @forge @culum @habd @PUA

    whooooo more progress lol

    Got another A1-A3, and got to number close (although THAT did not go well, but I know how to fix it for next time), and more important open was fairly lukewarm but popped her open with my DHV. Which is a GREAT reference experience so now I can stick through some iffy opens lol to get to the good stuff later on.

    Went out. . .but just a smidge too late. Very narrow window for having lots of girls out. However, I know now some of the times I need to go on several days, so I can go out at optimal times now.

    A few girls, but the were hard opens. Not quite ready for those yet.

    Internal state I noticed. Before I open a lot, I feel walled off from the world. It is like I am watching a movie. I feel detached, as if I am watching the world unfold rather than being IN the world. After I open a bunch, I feel like I am in the world. Its almost like the world was 2d, and it becomes 3d. Big difference. Part of the reason I have to think hard about my interactions with girls since I am in the moment when I do it. I’m not really thinking much at all as I do it. I am just there.

    Went in mall. Asian right there. She looked up at her phone at me for a sec, then went back to phone. Not ready, just walked passed.

    Walked around mall a bit. Not too many

    fffuuuuuucccckk. Pokemon! Should have done the pokemon open. Was so pissed I only remembered it then. On asian, should have opened with “You catching pokemon or just swiping on tinder?” fuckfuckfuck. so easy. But have that for next time. Now I know — girl on phone, open with the MOTHERFUCKING POKEMON MOTHERFUCKER. Lol, like its so stuck with me now I think I might just end up blurting out “muthafuckin pokemon!” the next time I see like a girl like that lol. Stung a bit. Open was so easy.

    But that’s the deal. Its not an easy open until you *see* the openings first thing and the *know* and have the *confidence* to open. As you get better, you see more openings and have the skills to open on those little tiny openings. Its like my rock climbing example from before. Alex Hannold sees these tiny cracks you or I don’t, and has the physical strength to use those tiny cracks to lift himself up.

    Same deal here. Getting frustrated is good since now I *know* of this foothold and I already have the strength to pull myself through A1 on it.

    not feeling to good. but wait. fat white girl about to go up escalator. looking at me. keeps looking at me. before I would have been like “oh, shes just wondering why I am looking at her or whatever.” lol. nope. IOI. Later, see a pink hair white chick. not bad. holding kid and with husband. doesn’t matter lol. I hold eye contact with her, she smiles big — and its a real smile, you can see the smile in her eyes. think there were maybe a few more girls like this. def noticing this more.

    this gave me a smirk and more or a swagger. felt *warm*. now, I STILL had kind of that detached, outside-looking-in sensation that I have when I haven’t opened much. But I felt good, positive. And I know my subcoms were good (and probably a bit sexual).

    there was like a 5 latina at a stand. not really fat, kind of chubby. passed her, but came back.

    “does it ever get really busy here?”

    “sometimes.”

    “who buys the most stuff?”

    “uhhh mostly girls.”

    “and gay guys right?”

    don’t remember her response here

    “hey, I got a quick question for you. I need a woman’s opinion.”

    and went into DHV. Now, at the start, she was like . . . okay. she was looking around a lot. looking for other customers partially, but she also had kind of that “eeeeh. this is a bit weird. someone come save me.”

    but

    once I got at the end, she chimed in

    “ooooh! You have a stalker!”

    and opened the fuck up. can’t say how huge that was to have this lukewarm open, and then do my DHV and suddenly the chick is receptive. was fascinating to watch.

    annd this is where my PoS comes in. Like I said before, I think I am mostly PoS. Thing is, I have zero experience with girls in terms of making out, sex, that stuff. So I can only work on their looks. However, as I get more experienced, I WILL be able to imagine the average girls in those sexual situs, and it makes me more attracted to them.

    this happened here. Firstly, seeing her flip like that felt good, like popping a zit kind of, like pure release, and was a bit sexual. I think I am going to end up liking the really bitchy girls lol. but also it got me more into this girl. Like I was just opening her to do it. She wasn’t COMPLETELY unattractive to me, but she just barely passed. However, once I flipped her, I got more into her. Still nothing like the black 7, but I got into her more.

    So as I experience making out, fucking girls and such, I can imagine doing it to average girls/girls not my type like this and THAT’S when I am going to go full PoS. Because I am working off of the sensation of sex and stuff, and her reactions, rather than 100% the physical looks of the girl. As I get better, I will know:

    A) I KNOW I can get the girl. Like, maybe something wierd happens, but it doesn’t take much to get like a 5 or under lol.
    B) Less ego is involved, since I will have gotten girls before and I can easily get many more
    C) Again, I actually have memories of fucking, so I can really imagine doing it with these chicks.

    So, something to look out for. May not end up being as PoS as I am thinking now, but I expect my bangable range to widen a bit, and for me to get more into girls that aren’t my type now, like white chicks mostly lol.

    Anyway, girl talks about her stalkers. I think I may have asked her if she had any stalkers of her own. At the end of my DHV I ask the girl for advice — should I ignore the stalker or engage her? And, that generally gets them drawn in, cuz its a difficult situ. And after that I was probably like “Well, have you had any stalkers of your own?” She said she did, and that she didn’t deal with that shit. She warned the guys she’d call the cops on them.

    I think this is part of the strength of this DHV. The girls can relate to it. Girls are like “hey, I have had stalkers too!” and it draws them in. they feel like you understand them and they can relate to you.

    anyway, after the “oooh! you have a stalker” bit latina was the most engaged. animated, smiling.

    she said she was really tired. hadn’t slept since she woke up at 8am the other day.

    “You drinking a bunch of 5 hour energy?”

    “no, but I got a Monster over here” giggle.

    “so, what, you were out partying all night. getting really drunk.”

    “no, I was hanging out with my friends. we went out.”

    “Okay. So you WERE out drinking and partying lol.”

    “well. . .yeeeeaaahh. lol”

    I think she talked about hangovers, or implied having one

    “yeah I never get hangovers. I’m Irish and German, so I am the master race of alcohol.”

    “I’m mexican.”

    this was weird. like, lol, what does mexican have to do with anything. I feel it was an IOI that she just burts out her origin here.

    “eeh, what does being a mexican have to do with anything. I guess you’d be good at drinking a lot of tequila.”

    mmm, maybe something else, but then

    “So why are you here working. What are you saving for?”

    “College. Already got it partially saved up. Going to community college now, but I am saving up for the university.”

    “What are you going for.”

    and I THOUGHT she said seminary.

    “wait, seminary?”

    “no, veterinary. I want to be a veterinary assistant.”

    “oh, lol. big difference between seminary and veterinary lol.”

    got to dogs she had. she started listing them.

    “I got a lab a. . ”

    interrupted her as she talked

    “you don’t have one of those yappy dogs to you?”

    she was kind of still talking when I interrupted her

    “a shitzu.”

    “eehhh, that’s one one those yappy dogs.”

    and looked away with disgust and took a step back. Then said

    “well, labs are cool dogs though.”

    this part is fuzzy. I know she talked about studying and partying. like she only had certain days when she partied. I used this to qualify

    “You know, when you said you were out partying last night, I thought you were just one of those crazy party girls. I see you are more balanced. A lot of girls these days aren’t like that. They either just partypartyparty or study all the time and never let loose. But you’ve got a balance to your life.”

    “I’m not a crazy party girl. Yeah some girls are like that, but I’m not. I was raised right.”

    “Because you’re mexican. You have a traditional family.”

    “Right.”

    “Well, I gotta go to work, but we should get coffee sometime. What’s your number?”

    “Well, thing is I can’t legally give out my number at work. Do you have an instagram or something?”

    “Okay, well just write it down on a piece of paper all sneaky like and just hand it to me.”

    “alright.”

    and then she went over to the register. I thought she was going to type out her number and print it out on the receipt (it was an old school register where you could type out whatever). but she just printed off a slip of bank paper.

    “like I said, I can’t give you my number at work. Its illegal.”

    so I gave her my number and left.

    whoooo. lots of stuff here.

    firstly, the number thing. Asian girl at candy store did this two, though she said she didn’t have a cellphone but also asked for instagram (or maybe facebook).

    here’s what I think is going on. the excuses are bullshit (or at least, mostly bullshit). they are doing this so they can A) check me out online to see if I am a creeper and B) its a test to see if i can go past it.

    next time, I will do this instead. when i get resistance to number close

    “Bullshit. Its not illegal to give me your number. Don’t be ridiculous.” in a fun, teasing tone, but still firm and like, I don’t buy her story at all.

    earlier, when I accused her of partying, lol, she was serious like “no just hanging with friends.” then when I said “sooo, you WERE partying lol.” thats when she cracked and was like “welll, yeeeahhh I was lolol.” so i think just calling her out will prolly do it. if not, tease and cold read more

    “ooooh I see. You’re one of THOSE girls. ahhhh.”

    “wait, what. what kind of girl.”

    “oh you know.”

    “what? what is it.”

    “You must be like a drug smuggler or someshit. I bet you have like 50 kilos of crack shoved up your butt right now don’t you?”

    and just not take her rejection seriously at all. have the attitude like “Its RIDICULOUS that you aren’t giving me your number. OF COURSE you will give me your number, you silly silly girl.”

    Other thing that was strange until I thought about it was that the chubby 5 was less into me than the 7 from the other day. Wut lol?

    But here’s the deal.

    Firstly, I really LIKED the 7. She was cute. I really wanted to spend more time with her. So I got more into just chatting with her, and being attracted to her. So my subcoms were more sexual because I FELT more sexual. Whereas the 5 I wasn’t as in to, so my subcoms were more neutral. That makes a BIG difference lol.

    In general, I was more “loose” with the 7. More at ease. I was stiffer with the 5.

    I also didn’t tease the 5 as much. I was always in a teasing mood with the 7 lol. Or at least, had the body language.

    My “tease” body language is basically gary coleman’s “What’chu talkin’ ’bout, Willis?” facing away from girl, looking away from her, but my face is turned up and just slightly tilted over to look at her. My eyes are kind of squinted, basically lasering, and I am smirking. Very jokey, teasing, smily

    Anyway, was like that a LOT with the 7, but more neutral with the 5.

    So the difference makes a lot of sense. I was far more sexual with the 7. It wasn’t what I said, since I talked about similar, nonsexual stuff (except for DHV). But my BODYLANGUAGE was more sexual. I had more of a boyfriend/girlfriend vibe with the 7 than the 5.

    And since I didn’t tease as much, I lost some BT there towards the end. And I didn’t pass the phone number test — whether it was an ACTUAL test, or just an obstacle — its something as a dude I should have been able to pass, I didn’t, so it dropped my value a bit. Whereas with the 7 it was just all high level BT, and actually, that was a good level I kept it at for daygame. Will try and remember that for a reference.

  12. ooh. another big thing was that around the time the 5 bust open, when she was talking about partying I think, I remember thinking

    “Man, this looks JUST like a pua video.”

    I about had deja vu lol. Was a good feeling.

  13. How do you maintain anonymity online? I have a lot of red pill content which I write that I presently only dare to circulate amongst my friends. Is there some specific set of rules you follow to maintain anonymity? It’s a thing I’d rather not want to fuck up. Would greatly appreciate your advice on this or any resources you could tell me about which would help me. Thanks

    >

  14. Chicks dig speed, hot, nasty bad ass speed….. also imagine there is a some legit bad boy cred and display of mastery when you put the throttle down, dangerous and criminal….. and they get all giddy and drippy. Also they seem to dig the raw punch to the face sort of power and speed vs more refined rides.

    They also dig violence, this trust with their life thing is probably why they get wet for fighters and other men involved in violent sports. Overt displays of proficiency with violence speaks right to their lady parts and a certain kind of trust

  15. Michaels, you could start by picking a handle other than your actual name. Anonymous email accounts are simple. Google “doxing” for more.

    @Rollo: I recognize this CONSTANT drip-drip-drip undermining your confidence at every stage, attacking you most fiercely when you are at you weakest, and poke after poke after poke, unrelenting, always negative..negative..negative never positive feedback, never a helpful word. The word for it is..MARRIAGE.

    It really is exhausting and SO not worth it young guys. Year after year with a “saucy” woman bitching and challenging everything you do. A yougogirl deciding which direction, which path, which order of event. She will decide to invite 12 people to a party and you will nod. Then when you add 3 people to the list she will challenge EVERY SINGLE NAME. She will give reasons why EACH person should not be invited. She will challenge you every time you back up the car. Every time you try to lead a herd of cats (i.e. her family) to an organized and fun filled day. Every time you speak your mind at her parents house she will dissect every word, every syllable.

    If you remember nothing else and take nothing else away from any of this just remember this guys: Your special snowflake isn’t. If she doesn’t do this constant challenging your position and constantly jockeying for position then just wait. She will- or more likely you will eventually notice how her initial default position is to ALWAYS disagree and ALWAYS challenge your initial position. If you think you can switch positions and offer an alternative think again. She will challenge the second position TWICE as fiercely.

    After 2 years of Red Pill the best I can hope for is for my wife to grit her teeth and shut the hell up because you can be assured of one thing and one thing only: If she is talking, it is not to agree with you.

  16. @Blue Pill Professor:

    If a man speaks alone in the forest and there is no woman to hear it, is he still wrong?

  17. Funny to be reminded of the drip-drip acid of marriage.

    Since I’ve discovered we’re not a team, and she doesn’t have my back I’ve become dis-interested in her opinions. I’ll tell her where we’re going on holiday, how it’s happening, how we get there. Not looking for concensus any more. Funny thing is that before I was abandoned to my fate she had a concerned team mate in me who always wanted her input (guess this is what women think they want). Now that I’m more like a dictator she’s generally happier, but if she does start nagging I’ll tell her to shut it, if it goes on she’ll get a spanked arse.

    Of course the backbone of all this was the decision that this was how it was going to be now, and if she leaves she leaves.

  18. This is a very interesting topic. My husband sometimes scares me in bumper-to-bumper traffic because he waits, in my opinion, too long to put on the breaks. But when I complain my husband just gives me a shit-eating grin and says “makes you feel alive, don’t it?”

    I do trust my husband implicitly. Even if he stoppes late for me I trust him to drive when I’m sleeping. He also has a concealed carry license- and l totally trust him to take care of us with it if needed.

  19. @bluepillprof
    “After 2 years of Red Pill the best I can hope for is for my wife to grit her teeth and shut the hell up because you can be assured of one thing and one thing only: If she is talking, it is not to agree with you.”

    There’s a time to cut the cord. Better earlier than later in life.
    Or stop hoping and go ballistic and squash her and see how/if she changes her attitude. 2 years of RP should be enough to have gathered your inner strength. Just sayin’

  20. How much of that steady drip comes with the traditional relationship territory?

    Traditional relationships being foundationally blue pill and all ….not saying y’all are blue pill or beta or anything such thing, but the nature of the conventional relationship beast is rather blue pill, which doesn’t inspire women to be on their best behavior. In effect forcing y’all to keep your red pill mastery of life on display because of her expectations

  21. With my SO the trust is so low that she wanted to appoint her beneficiaries of her life insurance to the kids instead of me. By law or legal requirements I had to sign papers from the insurance company for her to be able to do this. The reasoning was that men all to often get taken advantage of by a new wife (she assumed I would re-marry.) and allow her to neglect our kids. I of course refused… massive emotional out-break, which I refused to listen to (STFU, fog, leaving on my part). She begrudgingly SAID she trusted me, but I took that for what it was worth – just hot air. This was a real eye-opener for me, as it basically communicated that she thought I was too weak to lead a new wife, which also meant too weak to lead her as well. Doing the RP for about 7 months now, so apparently more to learn.

  22. KFG 4:21PM

    wet, wet, wet, O, wet, wet, wet, wet, O, wet, O

    Not one request to watch where he was going, or slow down?

    NADALT

    Not All Drivers Are Like That

    Blue Pill Prof – maybe driving school is on order?

  23. Just Getting It

    Well said, change your name to Got It!

    Funny thing is that before I was abandoned to my fate she had a concerned team mate in me who always wanted her input (guess this is what women think they want).

    They want to be led, they think they want to lead…

    Now that I’m more like a dictator she’s generally happier, but if she does start nagging I’ll tell her to shut it, if it goes on she’ll get a spanked arse.

    And there you have it. men lead, women follow.

  24. @Rollo,

    Shouldn’t this: “Men are at best lovable buffoons, at worst untrustworthy incorrigible players.”

    be this: “Men are at best untrustworthy incorrigible players, at worst lovable buffoons.

    I think the Alpha and Beta got flipped around there.

  25. Regarding marriage, I think women do value commitment. The trick is it has to be voluntary. In today’s world if you get married your commitment is no longer voluntary. It now becomes mandatory and therefore meaningless. If you can’t walk the minute you need to, you are no longer a free man. Young men, simply so no to marriage.

  26. Driving your wife around, huh? OK, this is not the perfect example of how it goes, but it’s funny.

    Back to the topic at hand, I think the beta makes the mistake of putting “family” before himself. It used to be the right way to build a good life, and probably still should be, but no more. Be more selfish in your relationships, put your foot down, both you and the creature will like it.

  27. Me 61, she’s 32, HB7-8. Treat her well, but with indifference. She’s prime feral, hyper- hypergamic. Can sense in an instant, her straying trust. Maintain self-interest always. She responds with interest to my mental point of origin. Wish I’d known all this some decades back. Seduction took considerable patience and months. Never tell her I’m coming over. Show up when I damn well feel like it. She loves that I DGAF.

    Caught her with a dude at her pad one day. She just met him. He’s about 40. Just the type I figured she would drag in some day when her cycle was peaked. Consider’ it took her months to invite me over. She even told the dude that I may show up anytime. BTW, I carry sidearm normally. It’s the wild west in this region.

    She was giddy, wet and flustered with these two alphas in her place at once. I politely told the other dude to move on. He did without a whimper.

    She embraced me, apologized, I stayed quiet and stoic. We fucked intensively.

  28. “Self-interested men make a more significant emotional impression.”

    Pursuing the Platinum Rule [do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it] will ensure this.

    Trust is just a convenient term used by women to vet for Beta men. ‘Trust’ only amounts to a list of prerequisites and rules for a Beta who believes it’s his duty to fulfill them, which are never an afterthought for women with more Alpha men.

    The Alpha Clarion Call to hypergamy’s pinging, boiled down – “Come with me [if you want to live]”…

  29. Glenngarry

    That was an awesome clip. Note how he just ignores her and keeps his foot in it… then laughs off the end with filming… LOL See how happy she was getting the thrill ride? Great.

    I think the beta makes the mistake of putting “family” before himself.

    15 years ago, making abundant coin. was looking to get a new Porsche. went with the wife to the dealer. Look around, took some out for tests drives. she was all “yes, definitely get it if you want it”, not that I was asking her… but I was surprised with her level of interest in it.

    My office was about 750 tire rotations from my front door. Had a perfectly great 3 YO Volvo wagon with the T5. I just thought meh… I really don’t need to get this Porsche. decided to pass… she was a little disappointing. I was thinking huh, that’s odd.

    Years later after the Red Pill, I understood that episode. I was betaizing myself… choosing the “right” thing to do… while she was pinging for more Alpha… Took i while to pull out of the self induced tailspin…

  30. One more… First part of a multi part series “When Playboys Ruled the World”…

    examine the mindsets of these two guys…

  31. I hadn’t seen that Patrese video before, it’s a hoot.

    Notice how excited she gets when she finds out she was being recorded.

  32. MGTOW – Never give a women or a white knight the legal, financial, social, physical, financial or psychological power to destroy your life.

    ANTI-MGTOW: Say whatever is necessary to keep men from becoming MGTOWs, for our own sake. We need those little betas to keep getting destroyed. It’s good for the womenz and white knights – dontcha know.

  33. Women that complain about my driving get treated to slides in a car and triple digit traffic weaving on the bike. Message: “I don’t care about your opinion. I trust myself and you don’t have a choice.”

    I had one chick that went for a ride in my GTI on our first date. She spent only a moment making any complaints about the speed, after the first couple intersections went by with tires squealing and she started laughing and squealing right along. Another exclaimed “Oh my god we’re gonna die” the first turn we leaned in to on the bike. The rest of the turns were much faster. The fucking afterwards was enthusiastic in both cases, and those were both pre Red Pill moments for me. I’ve never been one to tolerate passengers trying to drive.

    My mother tried to complain that I was driving too fast when I took her for a ride in my roomie’s FR-S a couple years back. With it being rear wheel drive, I stuck the tail out around every turn. I didn’t care, I was having fun and laughing. Eventually she started laughing too when she realized not only that I wouldn’t listen, but I knew exactly what I was doing.

    To me I just turn the lack of trust in to an opportunity to amuse myself by scaring the living shit out of women. They all laugh in the end.

  34. The driver in the video was pretty stoic throughout the entire ride. In fact, at times he had a shit-eating grin on his face, and pretty much ignored the hysterical woman sitting next to him. He downshifted, revved the engine and sped up on corners, despite her frantic protests, and this made her even more angry. He was listening to her, but ignoring her requests. At the end she’s smiling uncontrollably and he starts cracking jokes and making fun of her as she gets out to the other man and as if she wasn’t even there.

    “Men are conditioned, personally and publicly, to believe that niceness, comfort, and trust are the keys to success with women (whom we are told will have an affinity and appreciation for it).”

    I learned the same lie. That women will be appreciative, beholden and grateful for such behavioral attributes in men – and reward them for it with respect,loyalty and yeah, even intimacy.

    But then I read and experience the exact opposite – the truth that not only will women not appreciate it or necessarily respond favorably to it, but that they are actually INCAPABLE of appreciating it. It would never occur to them so of course it’s not sexually appealing to them.

    I’ve been interested to ask the beta male question “Why?”. Why won’t they (women) “appreciate it”, respond favorably to, and reward it, but will instead opt for distant, indifferent, uncaring men who DGAF– and even for the legendary, prolific assholes – as the preferred sexual partner of choice.

    I guess the answer to why doesn’t matter.
    It just is. Just accept it as part of the evolved sexual duplicity.

    Still hard to reconcile in the brain the “incapable” and “it would never occur to her” part.

  35. Another teacher (!) bangs a 16yr old student:
    http://fox43.com/2016/08/08/teacher-admits-to-sex-with-16-year-old-sent-selfies-during-honeymoon-complaint/

    She texted the boy while on her honeymoon.

    In nearly every case where a teacher copulates with a student, the element of feral desire is always there. She often times pays for the room and dinner accompanying the tryst. They essentially become the “beta males” in these instances.

    Now, could a 16 year old boy have that much game? While they definitely carry a devil-may-care attitude, that isn’t the complete picture here.

    These cases show us that a woman’s feral desire primarily lies in a male’s virility.

  36. Since I’ve discovered we’re not a team, and she doesn’t have my back I’ve become dis-interested in her opinions.

    This x1000. But not just her opinions. Just about anything that has to do with her. Does she have plans, wishes, desires? Fuck if I care. If I’m the only one rowing this boat, then I’m going to steer. When my youngest turns 18 I am out of here.

  37. ” . . . at times he had a shit-eating grin on his face, and pretty much ignored the hysterical woman sitting next to him.”

    He is playing with her.

    ” . . . despite her frantic protests, and this made her even more angry.”

    She wasn’t angry, she was indignant.

    “At the end she’s smiling uncontrollably and he starts cracking jokes . . .”

    And playing with her. The whole thing was a game being played by both parties. Her indignation was half real, half act. Ha, ha, only serious.

    And you can bet dollars to donuts that she was the one who rushed to see the video playback as soon as possible, and giggled like a schoolgirl while watching it.

    And fucked like a weasel in heat when they got home.

    If he had driven sedately at 100kph it would have ruined the game, she would have gotten bored, then bitchy, and had a “headache” when they got home.

    Instead she had a peak experience day she will remember for the rest of her life.

    Do what women want, not what they say they want.

  38. From the linked article:

    “This is what marriage is; not necessarily boring per se (although it certainly can be more often than not), but ordinary. It’s normal, common, or becomes so. Think about how many people who’ve lived, married and died on planet earth who did exactly the same things as you.”

    What Patrese did was take his wife out of the ordinary and gave her something exiting that the women at the bridge circle didn’t get everyday.

  39. Women and white knights hate beta males. Why? Because they’re ‘good guys’. Women and white knights look down their noses at men capable of responsibility, devotion, love, empathy and compassion. Why? Too boring. Not enough excitement. Easily manipulated. Boring, boring, boring. Plus – there’s a ton of money to be made and much forced wealth transfer to be had to the benefit of women and white knights – which is why ever more anti-male laws and policies need invoking. Beta males, while the engine of society, are the scorn of the earth. They need to be kept in their place – lest women and white knights suffer.

    It’s all so simple – yet so difficult to comprehend for those without a clear understanding of women’s and white night’s hatred of 90% of men. How does one counter their hatred? Cut off their life support – which is your eventual destruction. Sever their jugular – their hatred of betas. Simply refuse to leave yourself vulnerable to the laws, policies and social constructs they use to destroy your life. Simple, simple, simple.

  40. To take it a step further, when she next goes to her bridge circle she will blabber on and on, indignantly, about it and how “awful” her husband was.

    Why?

    Because it’s a DHV. The husbands of the other women don’t treat them so “horribly” and she’s rubbing it in their faces.

    And she appreciates having been given that.

  41. @Hank Holiday

    Before I open a lot, I feel walled off from the world. It is like I am watching a movie. I feel detached, as if I am watching the world unfold rather than being IN the world. After I open a bunch, I feel like I am in the world. Its almost like the world was 2d, and it becomes 3d. Big difference.

    So much this. This is the kind of post that makes me feel like I’m not unique or special and need to just own my shit. I’m finally learning that I have to smash the 2D world as quickly as possible when I’m out or else become 2D myself. I force myself to interact with ANYONE as quickly as possible, regardless of how awkward it is or how unfuckable they are lol. The 3 second rule should be applied to stepping out solo and immediately interacting, period. I’ll often use the RSD Julien trick of complimenting people as soon as I get out of the Uber. “Hey, I fucking LOVE your shirt!” while pointing or patting their arm, etc. After doing this five or six times the environment starts reacting to ME and not vice versa. First frame you gotta smash is your own stifled one.

  42. @Yareally,

    I went to a bar that I have been to before. I usually go on a weeknight for karaoke, but I went out on Saturday night.

    I go alone, but this time I was more chatty than I usually am. Nobody was playing pool so i asked this mixed group whether they wanted to play. Played with one very drunk dude against 2 women. I think it ended up being a demonstration of value since the guy was so drunk he made no shots (he was comically missing the cue ball with his stick) but I still beat the two women. Obviously, this type of DHV isn’t really consistently repeatable, but it was nice to see what happens.

    The one (less attractive women) was giving me IOIs. I said I came there to play karaoke on weeknights and she light up and said she loves to sing; she was giving me her stick and saying it was the best one; when she was leaving she came bye to say goodbye (this has not happened before to me). I think that it is hard to think that women are attracted to me because of my age-I am 50 (and the fact that I was never very good with women when I was young).

    The other women was hot as hell and was flirting with me mainly because she was flirting with everybody (I think she is just is new to bars -the guy just turned 21 and the women were in college.) I think because of the 60/40 ratio a lot of senior women are starved for attention. I did sink the last couple of balls when she was trying to psych me out. she also came by to say goodbye with the other women and touched me as she was leaving.

    I obviously should have interacted with them more but I just kept playing with other people.

    Yareally’s and mystery method ideas of getting social proof look like the key when you go out alone. I need to focus on just opening everyone. Just talking with people. I think that I can slip into negative social proof because I can stay too much in my own head. Just playing with those guys was enough to have other people talk with me. I had I nice chat with some dude. I also talked to a bunch of people next to me. The whole night was super fun. Going early-ish is also good.

    There are a lot of regulars to the bar including some who come a lot on karaoke night. Getting in with the regulars and hitting on the new women is looking like the way to go. [need to google-“how to get into the friendzone?”]

    I bought the mystery method book cheap used off of Amazon

    https://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Method-Beautiful-Women-Into/dp/0312360118

    Like yareally says it is good with the structure and the psychology. The actual routines seem corny and I have to develop my own. (It has a memory trick that actually seems pretty good though)

    I am getting better at reading the social dynamics in real time. The hot woman grinded up against the drunk dude and my first thought is that they clearly were not dating and the dude is gay.

    One pattern I don’t totally understand is that women will come up out of nowhere to talk with me. I won’t see them and then they will interact with me. My guess is that I am bad with eye contact (or acting on eye contact) and thus filter out everyone that I do see.

    Thanks again to yareally for the good advice.

  43. “Women feed off of excitement and drama . . .”

    Whereas men would much rather be here:

    Than here:

    “Don’t feed the bitch.”

    What feeds the bitch is boredom.

  44. @KFG

    Good insights.

    The woman has a little bit of attention whore in her. It’s subtle but revealed ( a Tell) by the delight over the camera recording.

    “He is playing with her. And playing with her. The whole thing was a game being played by both parties.”

    He has Amused Mastery in playing with her. And I sense she trusts him (or at least his Alpha).

    The video was an example of healthy masculine/feminine interaction and slight female need for attention (normal and healthy).

    It’s important to understand the flip side of that ( which is undoubtably more prevalent)– when she actually has real real trust issues (of the guy being Beta) and when there is pathological female attention whoring.

    https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/11/07/the-forms-of-female-attention-whoring/

    Every woman has a little attention whore in her. The trick is to avoid those women who have allowed that precocious child inside to grow into a ravenous beast that consumes more love than it can give.

    The key to fucking attention whores, (in the figurative and literal senses), is to NEVER satisfy her demands, no matter how appealing her acting method. You treat attention whores like you would an annoying, insufficiently respectful child: With amused disregard sharpened by a hint of contempt.

  45. Men are conditioned, personally and publicly, to believe that niceness, comfort, and trust are the keys to success with women (whom we are told will have an affinity and appreciation for it).

    This is the standard line in all the “relationship” books, vids, articles, etc. When a man finds his woman is acting up, acting strange, deadbedrooming him, being passive aggressive, etc. and he goes looking for advice, this is what he will find 99% of the time. This is one way that men get betaized – they look at a relationship having problems, say to themselves “This needs fixin'”, go to “experts” and wind up with the world’s worst advice. Until they wind up in the androsphere, if they ever do.

    Worse yet, I’m pretty reliably informed this is true x10 for the churchgoing men, because the churches are beta factories and even the opinion leaders there are betaized. Dalrock’s site is one of the few that pushes back against the betaization. How much betaization? Well, I got an example.

    Anecdote, not an FR: Sitting in a food court (not choice, necessity) being invisible, there’s a group next table over. Mother and boy, probably 5 or so. Teenager comes up with a girl, maybe 7. Turns out the teenager is the babysitter. Convo ensues, prattle, until teenager asks girl “Who’s your fave Star Wars character?”. The answer? Kylo Ren. Mother is pleased that daughter is impressed with a “strong, independent woman” (her words, I swear!) who “saves herself”. So, ok, 30-something woman is 30-something woman. So far, no surprise.

    End of convo – babysitter is leaving, mother and children are going to go meet Daddy at his work. Punchline? Daddy is a pastor at a church. This is the family of a man who would almost certainly line up somewhere on the TradCon side of things. This is the wife of a church leader, the man that people go to for “marriage counseling” I’m sure, and his wife is a feminist who approves of her daughters budding, Hollywood programmed feminism. Probably he’s got a nice, long, permanent “HoneyDo” list, too.

    I’ve said this a time or two: we are immersed in feminism. If we are not actively resisting it, we passively accept it. All relatioship advice outside of the androsphere is feminist, and therefore out of touch with reality.

  46. Is it really “men placing themselves at the center” or just “men not placing women at the center”? The difference seems really important.

  47. @Nitpicunt:

    I’ll use Patrese to indirectly answer that question. The late Carroll Smith, an auto racing engineer and mentor to young drivers, said there was one thing that all successful, professional race drivers had in common.

    They would sell their own mother for a ride.

  48. @Rollo

    It’s been a while since you’ve appended my name.

    Hopefully because I didn’t express myself well. Not because I said something contradictory to your thoughts in the OP or was saying something “wrong” or offensive (correct me if I did, or tell me if I’m annoying).

    I did abruptly change lanes there with the mention of pathologic female attention whoring which is a somewhat different subject, but related and much more common.

    My intent was to high five KFG for pointing out that Riccardo Patrese and Francesca were interacting in a healthy masculine/feminine polarity kind of way. (Francesca was normal and feminine and healthy in the OP). The man drives and the woman emotionally responds (good or bad emotions, sparing indifference).

    Where I swerved was into when men and women don’t get it right–and I don’t endorse not getting it right or the Heartiste dynamics where he instructs how women get it wrong.

  49. On second thought. Maybe I had that appended pristine asshole moniker on the computer I posted from. In that case. Never mind.

  50. @ kfg,

    “To take it a step further, when she next goes to her bridge circle she will blabber on and on, indignantly, about it and how “awful” her husband was.”

    “Why?”

    “Because it’s a DHV. The husbands of the other women don’t treat them so “horribly” and she’s rubbing it in their faces.”

    “And she appreciates having been given that.”

    That was spot on perfect, kfg. It sinks in a little deeper for me every day due to posts like that.

    @ Tim,

    I thought White Knights WERE beta males. Can you elaborate?

  51. This is not a “trust” issue. It is a dominance issue. The bitch is using “safety” as a hostage in a power play. Solution? Pull over, yank, her out of the car by her hair and pimp,slap her into next week. Give her a reason to be concerned about her “safety”.

  52. Good one Rollo. Thanks for another life lesson. Why is all this so easy to see in retrospect, but impossible to see while it was happening?

    In other news, I expect to be a virtual James Bond as soon as I perfect my time machine.

  53. @ Colbert

    White Knights advocate for pedestalizing females without regard to their content of their character and at the peril of advancing any one man’s sexual strategy.

    What Tim was getting at was a broader issue. And that is of why Betas become boring. Boring is a problem in 2016. Boring is the lack of desire of women to fuck Betas.

    There was the first set of books. Man does this (work, provide, come home to domestication) Woman does that (be feminine, clean the house, take care of the kids). That ship has sailed (kinda, some old guys like Sentient and SJF can get in a good dinner of cut up medium rare New Your Strip steak over salad with homemade salad dressing, blue cheese crumbles and roasted Costco peaches every other week). The older set of books will not happen again, so don’t wish that it will

    The the second set of books warped by hypergamy, equalism, and a 50/50 masculine feminine dynamic. Just like in the above cited essay “Appreciation” by Rollo. 50/50 equalism, with the man stripping away his Masculine Essence, and the woman advancing Her Masculine Essence (esp. when the man abdicates his role) is a recipe for disaster of epic proportions. Pretty much spelled out with the Steve/Saira shit with late life hypergamy.

    Non polar Masculine/feminine relationship game is boring. Don’t be boring.

    How? Promote polarity and not equalism between the masculine and the feminine. Don’t abide by males being feminine (although when they have lots of Stock in reserve, they can use their feminine subordinate traits for vulnerable good use in relationship game, but that is another topic)

    Beta males when betatized and boring. They can either decide to be this way when single or they can be betatized by their woman. They abdicate the Alpha and accept the non-feminine ball busting masculine in women.

    White Knights pedestalize women whether they (the WK) are Alpha or Beta.

    The third set of books in long term relationships (sorry, any relationship game even FWB, STR and FB’s, OLTR, PLTR) in the manosphere is to promote the Alpha masculine/Feminine polarity.

    Shit, you can love your son, your mother can love you, you can love a rock or you can love your hunting property. This has nothing to do with sexual consummation.

    The trick is true desire in any relationship, short or long between a man an a woman. It is true that there is a cardinal rule of sexual relationships, but WTH?, with mastery and skill, a guy can have happiness and fun.

    Life is beautiful. No? I can be.

  54. Toocutebyhalf said:

    “I’m sure Mrs. T trusts you with her life, but there’s a difference between her putting her life in your hands intentionally and you saving her from something (sorta) unexpected (if she thought she could handle saving the dog herself).

    If a guy’s mental point of origin is himself, is it surprising that a woman would subconsciously not trust him to save her over him? If she knows, deep down, that she’s replaceable to him…”

    I would say that a woman does not subconsciously trust a man to save her because a woman is not wired to save others before herself. Men are, but women are not. Therefore when any woman is put in a situation where she must risk her own life to save another, taking that sort of risk inherently runs against her programming. How many stories do you hear where a mother is killed trying to save her child? It’s almost always the husband/father who perishes while the wife and daughters look on.

  55. @Rollo

    I used a third computer that had the old silly appendage.

    You are still doing great work. Even if sounding tired of inter-sexual dynamics, your blog is electric and still extra-ordinarily energizing for readers. Thanks a million.

    Furthermore, that old pristine asshole appendage that was my old cookie on another computer was a masculine appendage of pushing back at guys like YaReally (who now that admits that I drove him crazy, I can back off of with my only disagreeing with his 2% of anything he has ever said). I love YaReally as an Icon. I don’t disagree with 98% of his writings here. The charge of mis-appropriating stances is a psychological “projection”. In other words you have mis-represented me as much.

    Funnily, I have experience the 98% Iconic, 2% bull-shit Archetype a few times before in the last 15 years. They are great men. I hope to keep them that way and on topic.

    Manosphere topics are not a zero sum game. I.e one’s sexual strategy is not a zero sum game. Game is universal across all relationship platforms.

    Tribalism works. Let it. Married Red Pill Game is not an affront to Single Man PUA Game. It is complementary.

    Nuances matter. In Masculine Red Pill Game. Masculine self improvement is not for nothing. When you have reserves (capital, good partner and well raised children) compromise and vulnerability (without purple pill praxeology) is actually a good thing. But it can only come with having mastery and lots of reserves.

  56. @Cheupez

    Plenty of White Knight Alphas do intervene in inter-sexual matters.

    FI Social Conditioning and all…..

    Prime example: The POTUS for the last 7 1/2 years.

  57. @ SJF,

    Thanks for the elaboration (I think of alpha and beta as being two separate pyramids with one pyramid representing a totally DIFFERENT mindset placed directly on top and above a separate beta pyramid with it’s own DIFFERENT mindset. I’m confused on how there could even be anything as an alpha WK, if alpha is a MINDSET.

    I think it depends on whether you are imagining one GIANT pyramid with alpha on top and beta as the next tier WITHIN THAT SAME GIANT PYRAMID (if in that case then your definition of alpha or beta would be based more on hierarchical position within a given pyramid; which from that vantage point what you say makes since). Thank you, sir for your response and elaboration.

    @ Cheupez,

    ……and thank you for your response as well, madame (simpler to remember for my primitive ape mind) 🙂

  58. @ SJF,

    I think what you are referring to as WK alphas, I would categorize as apex beta males. It just depends from what perspective you choose to structure your analysis (one pyramid or multiple ones as a matter of preference, I guess). I get what you’re saying though.

  59. @Colbert

    Imagine if you will a greater Beta, lesser Alpha. He has reserves. Reserves are an redpill mindset (he knows female nature, he has infinite ability to masculine self improve in a masculine mindset). The Beta can provide (with reserves), the Alpha can generate respect, admiration and desire.

    If you win the million dollar lottery, you can then proceed to compromise, be comfortable with not being in control of your woman, and relax. You won. She is willing to come along with your amused mastery. Think of that. The original post spoke of that come along for the ride. Or not. Trust me cause I am a trust-able Alpha. Please come along for the ride or not.

    This guy has no fault in compromise with the feminine as long as the feminine will accede to be feminine, not masculine. And not have control issues: to betatize the male. Don’t ever become Betatized, but don’t think you can’t give give the girl her nature. Don’t be an Alpha asshole, let her roam.

    Let her fucking Roam. Roissy’s Ninth Commandment. Commandments are commandments for a good reason.

    A male willing to be betatized (submift to a woman) get his due. Don’t do that by being self aware of who the fuck you actually are.

    But having reserves to compromise with the feminine in an Alpha mindset is more of a a third set of books. And enjoying a new, adaptable way of being in the new world disorder

  60. On the topic of driving… and Game. I came to the conclusion that running game was a lot like driving. It ebbs and flows like you drive a car, it is not all straight line connect the dots like a train on rails, sometimes you need to hit the gas, sometimes brake, sometimes switch gears. Pay attention to all three, heads up in real time. watch the revs…

    Attraction = Gas. Visceral excitement, press it hard and faster you will go, flush she will get. Stay on it, you may hit the wall….

    Comfort = Brake. Brake makes you feel safe. Pump the brakes when things are out of control. But don’t ride the brake or you will lose interest.

    Rapport = Clutch. Switch gears when you need to align with her spirit, change topics. get serious… switch gears get playful… switch gears get personal…

    Hit the gas… bury her head into the headrest. When she is showing whites of her eyes, pump the brake a bit, downshift into a topic change and then accelerate again out of the corner…

    Drive!

  61. The Patrise and Wife video is an excellent example of appropriate male and female interaction. He took her through a range of emotions and calmed her down with a pat on the knee. She was giddy and overcome with joy like a little girl at the end. Beautiful.

  62. POTUS has submitted to the FI imperative so though he still maintains a vey strong frame, it is still blue pill frame/beta frame, bawling away on national tv n all. A betaized alpha is a beta for almost all practical purposes.

  63. Rapport = Clutch. Switch gears when you need to align with her spirit, change topics. get serious… switch gears get playful… switch gears get personal…

    Rapport (a close and harmonious relationship in which the people or groups concerned understand each other’s feelings or ideas and communicate well.) Oft understated in the manosphere. As if it doesn’t matter. Often understood, but should be understood as “out of control”.

    What is actually going to happen if I let off the clutch, or experiment with the clutch? Answer: I don’t really know the outcome after I let off the clutch, do I? It is scary to let off the clutch, not going to the clutch is easier.

    Why is he humming? Just a crazy thing he does when he’s living close to the edge.

    Any one else do that?

    Not Among the living.

    Don’t be afraid to die in the moment. It is men’s spiritual ecstasy. The denial of death is a man’s tether. Use the clutch, even if the outcome is uncertain.

    Of course, only with mastery before-hand.

  64. Lol, the more obnoxious I am (in a fun way), the more women like it. It’s like it’s part of mating or something. An engaging jerkiness arouses women.

  65. “POTUS has submitted to the FI imperative so though he still maintains a very strong frame, it is still blue pill frame/beta frame”

    Depends on whether his sexual strategy is actually working. The only true determinant of whether a man’s frame is working is whether his strategy is working.

    He is Alpha (the leader of the country). If he is incongruent with he doesn’t have agency with the first lady. Sexual strategy is sexual strategy.

    In other words: Who gives a shit how you are defined if your strategy is working. Welcome to a new SJF Maxim……

  66. POTUS and the first lady. I dont want to go there. Suffice to say having to white knight for any favors is negotiation.

  67. “With mastery, you can match gear speeds without using the clutch.

    Give me a literal example ( As if I’m ignorant of this). How to work an automobile.

    I remember my first car, smiling out loud, she was a beaut, a cutie…it was a manual Audi 4000 in 1988. The gear speeds were predictable and boring and I don’t remember ever considering not using the clutch. And it sucked when the timing belt broke on that bitch. Turns out she was rode hard and put up wet before it took control of her.

    And then give an example of how that statement applies metaphorically to red pill and game strategy….

  68. @ all,

    Somebody here referenced this movie some time ago. Themes include female nature, beta and alpha. Good movie and worth watching if you haven’t already seen it!

  69. Hard for women to trust a man without some status que to go with it. Like a job title. No matter how many times he displays his competency.
    And women are so often worse case scenario, that Rollo’s wife may not entirely trust him with her life. There’s always a thought of what if something bigger, meaner, whatever takes him out? What is she going to do then?
    And if she really didn’t have much appreciation for her life actually being saved, I say it’s due to women tend to hate admitting when a rash decision or action they make puts them in a bad situation. And their solipsic nature will make them first react in a manner of “oh my god, I can’t believe what almost happened to me!”
    She might have showed appreciation if her being in a life threatening situation wasn’t partly of her own doing.

  70. @Mr. Tomassi,

    I’ve been reading your blog for some time. The following links are not directly related to the post at hand, but you may find them of interest nonetheless (I’m not aware of a general comment section for your website).

    I’m sure you are familiar with the comic strip “Dilbert.” The author of this strip is Scott Adams, and he runs a blog that, in the past, briefly dealt with feminism (it now seems to focus mainly on Mr. Trump, Mrs. Clinton and the upcoming election.)

    His blog came to the attention of Jezebel, which is a webpage I’m sure you are also familiar with.

    Here are examples of the links in question (you can google more if you are interested):

    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/103051154866/is-feminism-sexist

    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/102881506316/im-a-what

    http://jezebel.com/5786019/dilbert-creator-deletes-misogynist-rant

    I produced these by the search terms “Scott Adams Feminism.” As I suggested, the issue is somewhat dated now, but you may find it of interest in any event.

    Warmest Regards,

    Hunter S Thompson.

  71. “Beta men are endlessly told that a woman’s trust and rapport, her comfort level with a guy, is essential to her being intimate or sexual, or having a good relationship.”

    Women will shit test men by trying to convince them that all these things are necessary for a good relationship.

    Even when their relationship is already good. They want him to communicate more, talk more, open up more, etc., under the guise that there is anything fundamentally wrong with the relationship (there probably isn’t).

    All this is simply a manifestation of their natural Hypergamous insecurity.

    But if you go along with it and start placating them and agreeing that something is wrong….THEN there will be something wrong in the relationship.

    Simplified version:

    Woman: “We need to communicate more.”

    Man: “What’s wrong? What’s bothering you? What can I do to help? Did I do something to hurt you?”

  72. “A common criticism among the MGTOW set is that a man investing himself into anything with the express purpose of attracting women is vanity or wasted effort.”

    As a man who’s been thoroughly tempted to go MGTOW, my criticism of the MGTOW idea of jumping through hoops is that it’s based (IMO) on the (probably repressed/subconscious) belief that relationships with women exclusively on a man’s terms is not possible.

    Women are fun. I only ignore this when I feel like women are inaccessible to me on my terms. Like “they’re out of my grasp and I’ll never be able to have fun with women the way I’d like to, and it’s just too fucking hard and too demanding anyway, so fuck it.”

    (scrib’s accused MGTOWs of being rage-quitters in the past, and I’m inclined to agree with him. It doesn’t mean I throw all MGTOW perspectives out the window or think they have nothing of value to offer, but any hormonally healthy man that deliberately avoids sex with women is, by default, repressing himself…ask me how I know)

  73. @ Softek,

    This is one problem I’m having with the whole MGTOW thing too and why I am beginning to take on a different RP perspective and move into a different camp. A refusal to learn to master women in your life in terms of intimate relations (drawing boundaries and saying the word “no” and making yourself your own mental point of origin), is a refusal to attempt to master your own masculinity and develop a positive and strong masculine frame, IMO, at least in relation to the opposite gender. Mastery over women involves mastery over yourself as a male. I think it was YaReally and Rollo that said it best – to paraphrase: “women can be like dangerous tigers, if one has not endeavored to properly train oneself to learn to handle them carefully.” Without proper training and RP awareness, playing with a woman really can be like “playing with a stick of dynamite”.

    So learn game. And become better, stronger, and more competent as a man. The type of relationships with women you choose to enter into, well, that is up to you. The more involved you choose to get with one, the more highly trained you should be. As Rollo has pointed out though, even if you train a tiger to jump through a flaming hoop, she can still go feral on you at any point. You should always be prepared for her to leave you for a higher value prospect and be mentally prepared and OKAY with THAT as her solipsism makes her a slave at least to some extent to her own hypergamy. I think THAT is the proper headspace to be in no matter how much you like a particular woman. Practice conditional love with her because that is what she is practicing with you, regardless of how much she will try to convince you otherwise.

    I think YaReally’s problem with MGTOW guys are the one’s that “dabble” with women w/out bothering to learn game (thus the analogy of kids playing with sticks of dynamite). To Rollo and YaReally, if I’m wrong with anything I just said then please correct me as I don’t want to put words in anybody’s mouth – but this has been my take away and understanding from everything that I have learned thus far from my RP studies.

  74. And here is an example of a man who mistakenly married a cluster B tiger. See how she got him isolated and all to herself at the end of the video? Nuff said on that! – lol

  75. @Sentient

    Adding to that analogy…driving like a maniac only wastes gas and runs the risk of hitting a pole.

    My own game is much better calibrated. I’m not an approach hyena anymore. Having banged 10 girls this year, all but one regular are under 30 I’m in a position where I’m banging girls nearly 30 years younger than me.

    For them it’s a chance to be with an experienced chill guy. My value is through the roof.

    But it doesn’t always work. There are girls who don’t want that wild ride. in those situations you have to be able to drive where you want and if they’re not with you, leave them by the side of the road and move on.

    I don’t take on passengers anymore. If they’re along for the ride they need to be bringing something to the journey as well.

    What serves as validation is that by banging them good, they all now get gifts, ,cook or do little things for me. The ones who don’t get soft nexted until they behave or I feel like hanging out.

    Too often I read here where guys have themselves in a situation where they’re too afraid to walk away because they’ve been conditioned to be loyal, be true, be honest—those are not “Dark Triad” traits.

    Mix it up. Be more unpredictable. Disappear for days without explanation.

  76. @SJF
    “Furthermore, that old pristine asshole appendage that was my old cookie on another computer was a masculine appendage of pushing back at guys like YaReally (who now that admits that I drove him crazy, I can back off of with my only disagreeing with his 2% of anything he has ever said). I love YaReally as an Icon. I don’t disagree with 98% of his writings here. The charge of mis-appropriating stances is a psychological “projection”. In other words you have mis-represented me as much. Funnily, I have experience the 98% Iconic, 2% bull-shit Archetype a few times before in the last 15 years. They are great men. I hope to keep them that way and on topic.”

    “Married Red Pill Game is not an affront to Single Man PUA Game. It is complementary.”

    The reality is it doesn’t exist. It’s all the same thing. What you’ve decided to do is, after I pointed out that your experience as an old guy legally married under an older system of marriage to an old woman raised in an old culture doesn’t have as much relevance to guys in 2016 was, instead of humbly accepting that “ya, that’s true, things have changed and my experiences may not all be relevant to men these days” like Blaximus, because Blaximus doesn’t have his head up his ass, was quadruple down on your “I DON’T WANNA BE LEFT OUT!! I’M STILL RELEVANT!!” ego.

    Because of that you’ve now created multiple new game categories and labels for you to be the “Master” of. Now you go on about Relationship Game, Single Guy PUA Game, Married Red Pill game, a Third Set of Books, forks in the road, Alpha White Knights, your new buzzword relabelling you’ve come up to make yourself feel special this week is “alpha with reserves” and every time you refer to yourself it’s all about what a badass alpha you are, nothing you ever do is wrong, everything was a planned strategy, even when you brutally embarass yourself in the forum wasting everyone’s time being an asshole suddenly it’s “Jokes on you guys I was just PRETENDING to be retarded as part of a tribal experiment for a week where I act like an asshole, I think you can all see now that I’ve clearly demonstrated the nuances of what an amazing tribal leader I am, dance for me puppets, dance!!”

    You keep dropping in stuff like “it’s complementary” at the end of your little rants in an attempt to keep anyone from calling you out on just making shit up and relabelling shit under the “SJF is a special snowflake” label but it’s blatantly clear what you’re doing.

    This is literally the EXACT same shit guys like Krauser or Roosh do to sell their products and guru-ize themselves: repackage and rename a bunch of already explained shit, while throwing in little contradictory nuances hinting that you’ve discovered some special super snowflake secrets that no one else understands, in a way that tries to make themselves sound like the Master of some new system they’ve uncovered. It’s retarded when they do it but at least they have an audience of followers and are selling a product so it’s understandable, it’s 10x as retarded if you aren’t actually selling anything and are just a commenter on a message board trying to convince random people you’re a wise old man who’s “mastered” life hoping that you can dupe some newbies who don’t know better into viewing you as some sort of guru.

    You are muddying the waters of the knowledge-base with contradictions and nuances that aren’t there and changing labels on already established concepts, in an attempt to feel relevant, and that will ultimately make it harder for men to understand Red Pill concepts.

    Have you wondered why no one has asked you to explain your incredible SJF Relationship Game to them despite you mentioning it in every fucking post? Have you wondered why every time you throw in a sperg-level-detail little rant about the peach-steak dinner your old wife who didn’t even fuck you a few years ago (and who’s vagina has no wrinkles at age 60+ of course because if you master SJF Relationship Game that you’ve invented in the last 1.5 years, the laws of nature just stop working completely…we can all type “old woman pussy” into a porn search and see how likely it is that you have the unicron dude lol) cooked for you, no one jumps in to give you props or ask “wow man, how did you DO that?? How can I be like you, SJF??”? Have you wondered why no one has asked when you’re going to write this mystical third set of books (that only YOU are aware exists) for us all to learn from? Have you wondered why NO ONE has ever asked “What ARE all the SJF Maxims??” when you dangle your little “welcome to a new SJF Maxim” bait in your posts?

    It’s because everyone else can (I assume) see what you’re doing with your SJF Special Snowflake Game but are too nice to call it out because it looks like this is the only place in your life where other men will occasionally listen to you talk lol

    You said it yourself at the end: “Game is universal across all relationship platforms.” You can’t even keep your own contradictions straight, which is common when guys just make shit up or pick and choose to create their own system. ’cause the next sentence is always “but my special SJF RELATIONSHIP GAME is a highly nuanced specialized area that I am the master of, it’s different from that SINGLE GUY PUA GAME stuff!” lol And your reply to this will probably be some fortune cookie sounding bullshit about how your massive contradictions are all just a test for the tribe to demonstrate your mastery and dominance and YaReally has fallen right into your brilliant trap with this reply and bla bla more retarded LARPing shit lol

    Attraction is Attraction. Keeping a fuckbuddy attracted longterm is the exact same as keeping a wife attracted. When you can’t easily leave the relationship (for whatever reason) it’s harder to maintain Alpha/Lover frames, and a legal wife/kids/moving in/etc convert into huge chains preventing a guy from easily leaving the relationship…but it’s the exact same thing as being in a situation with any type of relationship where you can’t easily walk away for whatever the reason happens to be. It’s all the SAME THING despite your attempts to try to divide shit up and muddy the waters to try to get people to view you as Yoda.

    But please tell us more about this “Third Set of Books” you’ve discovered in this last 1.5 years of your wife actually touching your dick. Please list all the SJF Maxims so we can learn from your wisdom. Teach us foolish mortals your benevolent wisdom! We’re sitting here reading this chump Rollo go on about the SECOND set of books, pffft, like the guy has any idea what he’s talking about compared to a wise Master of life like yourself. He’s a whole set of books behind!! His wife doesn’t even trust him with her life after 20 years!! I bet YOUR wife (with her magical wrinkleless vagina) trusts you 24/7 because you are an alpha master guru tribal leader of SJF(TM)(R)(C) Relationship Game (TM)(R)(C)(all rights reserved). Please SJF, educate us all on this third set of books that your wisdom has created out of thin air! I know I’d sure like to hear it for the lols

    @Softek
    “I think YaReally’s problem with MGTOW guys are the one’s that “dabble” with women w/out bothering to learn game (thus the analogy of kids playing with sticks of dynamite).”

    Yup. I’m cool with a guy who doesn’t know how to handle dogs and who doesn’t want to learn how to handle a dog, not owning a dog. Whether he’s “being a man” or “pussying out” or “rage quitting” or whatever I don’t really care, guys can do whatever they want and there are cases where I wouldn’t blame a guy for wanting to stay away from dogs entirely.

    But if you’re going to go MGTOW and shit on PUA and refuse to learn how to handle dogs from the guys who’ve laid it out step by step for you to learn from and warn other guys not to learn how to handle dogs, and then you’re going to go “oh but I still let dogs into my house now and then, I was seeing a dog for a few months a while back, but, you know, I just do it on MY terms”, then you are probably going to get bit hard because you have no idea what you’re doing.

    I don’t want them to learn how to make their relationship WORK, they can learn that shit if they want, what I want them to learn is how to PROTECT THEMSELVES from shit like False Rape Accusations when they do their spergy MGTOW “the second she bugs me I just delete her from my life” shit that sounds super badass alpha but in 2016 is likely to trigger Buyer’s Remorse, social media slander, and land them an FRA or worse. And to learn how to avoid getting one-itis, the thing that would sabotage their MGTOW lifestyle when they throw half their principles out the window (“MGTOWs are just one blowjob away from leaving MGTOW” or whatever the quote is) They should be learning the parts of PUA that are relevant to keeping their MGTOW lifestyle drama-free and on their terms and that help them avoid catching too many feels for a unicorn so they can stay rational/logical about their decisions instead of bailing on their lifestyle and then entering a situations they’re wholly unprepared to manage, followed by getting burned AGAIN, and then coming BACK to MGTOW with a new round of “women are evil bitches” because the dog they fell for and tried owning while refusing to accept any training bit their face off.

  77. “But please tell us more about this “Third Set of Books” you’ve discovered in this last 1.5 years of your wife actually touching your dick.”

    This:

    “Attraction is Attraction. Keeping a fuckbuddy attracted longterm is the exact same as keeping a wife attracted. When you can’t easily leave the relationship (for whatever reason) it’s harder to maintain Alpha/Lover frames, and a legal wife/kids/moving in/etc convert into huge chains preventing a guy from easily leaving the relationship…but it’s the exact same thing as being in a situation with any type of relationship where you can’t easily walk away for whatever the reason happens to be.”

    Is exactly what I discovered and have. “Hard” is relative. Dismiss it all you like.

    Thanks for playing and telling me my narrative. Married red pill game does exist. It’s not for the faint of heart and it is not merely ego-justification on my part.

    Good luck with saving the lost boys. Lost boys are welcome to make it through triage with all the tools in the manosphere right there laid out.

    I’m not looking for more friends or validation. I’ll pay extra for not having another “friend”.

    First set of books: complementary male control and female giving.

    Second set of books: 50/50 equalism with men giving up masculinity, assuming feminine traits and women subsuming masculine traits. Boring. No sexual polarity or desire. Playing on the feminist chess-board.

    Third set of books: Actually having something to give others. Sentient’s Platinum Rule. IRL being fun and adding value because it is not a burden on you. It is fun. Something you do, not something you have. Because of resources, skill and mastery. And not looking for others for validation.

    Like Julien RSD in his JulienHimself streams. Having a surplus. And not being afraid to die or give it up to the partner because of the surplus. Beyond dealing with your inner child.

  78. @ YaReally,

    Question for you just for my own clarification and learning purposes. So are you saying that learning game i.e.; dread, boundary setting, triggering competition anxiety, being your own mental point of origin and saying “no”, etc. should not be separated from PUA since it is PUA that gives you the sense of abundance you will need to avoid catching too many feels for a “unicorn” once you get involved with a woman? That would make since to me and seem to be good advice for somebody who has been “out of the game” for a while.

    On the other hand, for guys who are already in an established LTR or marriage then it’s more “game” and less PUA that they need to focus more on (assuming, of course, they are choosing to stay in a more monogamous arrangement) to make their relationships work better. It sounds like there is a lot of overlapping crossover between game and PUA though, so this is where I sometimes get things mixed up. Is what I just said correct? Like, okay, for example: are there PUA guys that JUST learned PUA but not much else in terms of other general RP concepts including many aspects of game just as there are MGTOW guys that know all kinds of theoretical RP stuff like female nature, hypergamy and stuff like that but turn a blind eye toward game concepts like plate theory, dread and PUA stuff. In other words, somebody who ONLY knows PUA stuff is vulnerable to “oneitis” just as somebody who ONLY knows RP theory MGTOW stuff is also vulnerable to “oneitis”? Are my questions making any sense?

    It sounds like you are saying that unless you are in a monogamous LTR/marriage that you need PUA in addition to game and RP knowledge to really protect yourself in today’s environment. That this will give you the wisdom not to be a total dick and unnecessarily hard next somebody (because you are still bitter and hate all women) giving that woman the bad feelz. As a more delicate soft next would do and you don’t give her the bad feelz and trigger buyer’s remorse and a possible social media slander or worse, a FRA. I still get confused and conflate terminologies sometimes. I just want to understand things in the right context. Thanks.

  79. Hey Rollo… This actually had me laughing out loud (emphasis mine):

    “I get in now and grab the dog and bodily throw him up on the steep bank. THEN I do the same with Mrs. T.”

    “I still have my doubts that Mrs. T trusts me implicitly with her life.”

    Given that the dog came first, maybe her doubts aren’t entirely unreasonable. 🙂

  80. @SJF
    “Is exactly what I discovered and have.”

    This is what we’ve been teaching since the beginning and what we teach in “SINGLE GUY PUA GAME”.

    “Married red pill game does exist. It’s not for the faint of heart and it is not merely ego-justification on my part.”

    Okay so tell us what works in marriage that doesn’t work in LTRs, fuckbuddies, etc Tell us exactly what rules apply to marriages that don’t also apply to normal LTRs. Let’s hear it, Gandalf. Tell us all about these “not for the faint of heart” mystical voodoo things you see that us mere mortals not running “SJF RELATIONSHIP GAME(TM)” are unaware of.

    @Colbert
    “So are you saying that learning game i.e.; dread, boundary setting, triggering competition anxiety, being your own mental point of origin and saying “no”, etc. should not be separated from PUA”

    That stuff *IS* PUA. It’s like guys have just briefly skimmed a few pickup videos and gone “oh this just applies to getting bar pussy to put out in one night stands, we’re talking about more in-depth stuff like relationships” ’cause they haven’t actually looked at Mystery Method in-depth and realized that all the shit listed above is the same shit Mystery was talking about.

    Dread = preselection, jealousy plotlines, abundance mentality, the ability to walk away, multiple girls on the go, the ability to Soft Next, Hard Next, freezeout, etc

    Boundary setting = Soft Next, Hard Next, freezeouts, negs, the ability to walk away, laying down discipline/punishment for bad behavior, etc

    Triggering competition anxiety = preselection, jealousy plotlines, merging sets, abundance mentality, the ability to walk away, multiple girls on the go, etc

    Being your own mental point of origin = learning about yourself and embracing your wants/needs/desires instead of being ashamed of them, finding goals and life purposes outside of women, having relationships on your terms and enforcing that by being able to walk away or use Nexts, etc

    Saying “no” = this is PUA 101 right here

    This is why I’m giving SJF shit. Everyone wants to separate all this shit and make it overly complicated so they can all stamp their personal brand/name all over it when all of this Married Red Pill Game and Relationship Game and LTR Game and bla bla it’s all the same thing. The only difference is that various types of relationships can require more or less “ability to walk away” which puts you more into a Provider/Beta frame and you have to be aware of that so you can make sure not to let your Lover/Alpha frame get weak, to balance it out. That’s it. A guy who’s single with a harem of casual fuckbuddies has all the ability in the world to walk away, so he doesn’t have to do as much to enforce it. A guy who’s legally married with kids and living with his wife has voluntarily removed almost all of his ability to walk away, so he has to make sure to keep the Lover/Alpha shit going. But the stuff the second guy DOES is the EXACT SAME SHIT the first guy does. It’s not some magical special snowflake “different” game. It’s the same shit.

    It’s like if you want to walk down the street, that involves “moving from point A to point B”. If you decide to tie your legs together, walking down the street will be more difficult and to get to the end of the street in the same time you’ll have to put more work into “moving from point A to point B”. But you’re not running some special “legs tied together relocation game”, you’re just “moving from point A to point B” like the other guy and follow the exact same principles (“using your muscles to push off the ground to move yourself forward”).

    This shit makes it way overcomplicated and you get all these guys who are like “Oh which type of game should I learn?? I learned some PUA but now I better learn SJF MAGICAL RELATIONSHIP RED PILL MARRIAGE GAME(TM) and it’s like no, just learn the fucking basics and REALLY UNDERSTAND THEM because everything in all types of relationships are based around these core fundamental principles. Depending on your relationship you may have to actively go out of your way to flirt with a waitress to make sure you get preselection in because you’ve chosen to settle down into a relationship and lifestyle where you aren’t around women much, but that’s the SAME PRINCIPLE as a single guy using preselection to trigger the exact same desire/dread in his girls. Learn PUA and you’ve learned it all.

    The 2 things not covered by PUA, which is what I always credit Rollo for, are: 1) fully understanding all the nuances of Hypergamy (but even then as you can see in that Mystery Method quote about running mixed/group sets, we already understood the general idea of it and how to use it), and 2) solipsism (which doesn’t have a lot of relevance in the actual execution of game principles, but it’s a huge clarifier in understanding WHY women think/act/behave in the way they do).

    But “dread” game isn’t some special magical Red Pill Marriage shit. It’s just a combination of techniques/principles already taught way back in Mystery Method. It’s the exact same shit you do with normal girls, except that in a marriage you’re legally/socially/paternally tied to your situation so you have to make more of an effort to execute those techniques/principles since you’ve tied your legs together. The principles themselves are the exact same shit though. It’s all just “PUA”. Separating it is just muddying the waters.

    “for guys who are already in an established LTR or marriage then it’s more “game” and less PUA that they need to focus more on”

    It’s the exact same thing. There’s no “game” concept/technique that isn’t based in PUA shit lol

    “It sounds like there is a lot of overlapping crossover between game and PUA though, so this is where I sometimes get things mixed up.”

    This is EXACTLY what I’m talking about. Muddying the waters confuses new guys because it seems like there’s crossovers and contradictions and guys are trying to stamp their personal brand all over shit so we have Krauser with his super special Daygame he’s mastered convincing guys that Nightgame is totally different and don’t look at that Nightgame shit by those scamming PUAs and guys like SJF telling guys to take that fork in the road and get married and then just apply the super special SJF Married Game he’s mastered and Roosh in another corner convincing his followers that he has super special Neomasculinity game and all those PUAs are frauds and bla bla bla

    It does a disservice to guys who are trying to figure out what the fuck is going on and how to fix their lives.

    The MMSL MAP is great, but it’s literally just applying PUA principles to a marriage. It’s giving guys a set of steps to follow that will directly/indirectly trigger dread, preselection, not making the girl the focus of your world, Soft Nexting, freezing out, etc But if you just learn and understand PUA, then you have that shit down. It’s not some special new secret set of techniques. It’s the shit you learn if you just study the material that’s been out there for 15+ years lol

    “are there PUA guys that JUST learned PUA but not much else in terms of other general RP concepts including many aspects of game”

    The guy you’re describing would be a guy who hasn’t actually studied PUA in-depth. He’d be like a dabbler that just learned enough to get laid and then stopped reading/studying/practicing.

    It’s like “are there MMA guys that JUST learned how to throw a punch but not much else in terms of other fighting concepts including many aspects of fighting?” Yes, there are, but MMA itself isn’t what’s lacking. It’s that student choosing to only learn the bare minimum.

    My problem with these artificial distinctions is, like you go visit the TRP forums on reddit and those guys completely think they’re doing something different from PUA. They’ll talk shit about PUA, it’s the funniest thing. Everything they’re doing is based off PUA but they have enough guys there talking shit to keep anyone from going back to stuff like MM or early Tyler Durden writing to find that out. It makes them feel special to classify PUAs as a bunch of pussy-beggars who don’t understand the whole “self-improvement” side of things like THEY do (and half their ideas are based in not understanding PUA to begin with, like their big focus on looks/money to get women there, which shows a FUNDAMENTAL lack of understanding/experience with what PUAs found infield which is why when I talk about looks and shit it’s so “controversial”, ’cause guys aren’t out there testing this shit, they’ve got their TRP dogma and are sticking to it instead of field testing like the PUA community does).

    This all just fucks guys up. PUA is basically what Bruce Lee did, dismissing all the traditional fluff and fancy poses and shit and just getting down to the core of “what holds up in a fight” It’s streamlined and efficient and the principles you learn through PUA are the same principles you apply in all your relationships, that’s why everyone shits a brick when they realize understanding PUA actually improves their business relationships and personal/male/family/kids/etc relationships. PUA is the core concepts of how human psychology works.

    Yes, you CAN just go learn “Married Red Pill Dread Game” but you’re just learning a chunk of PUA, you’re not learning something “different” that’s “not for the faint of heart”.

    “In other words, somebody who ONLY knows PUA stuff is vulnerable to “oneitis” just as somebody who ONLY knows RP theory MGTOW stuff is also vulnerable to “oneitis”? Are my questions making any sense? ”

    In PUA we teach you how to avoid one-itis (don’t see the girl more than once a week, don’t do stuff with her that isn’t having sex, have multiple girls on the go, understand that there’s no special pedestal unicorn out there, etc etc). Whether guys follow that or not varies, but the techniques and mindsets are all laid out in PUA.

    “It sounds like you are saying that unless you are in a monogamous LTR/marriage that you need PUA in addition to game and RP knowledge to really protect yourself in today’s environment.”

    PUA = game. The “PUA and game are different” thing is an artificial distinction made up by guys in the Manosphere/TRP to try to separate themselves as “better than” the “pussy-begging PUAs”. In a monoLTR/marriage you need the exact same things you needed as a single guy: abundance mentality, dread, preselection, giving them emotional rollercoasters like the guy in the car in Rollo’s op, etc etc etc Except that you’ve removed your ability to walk away which hampers your ability to properly Soft/Hard Next, so you have less room for error fucking up that other stuff with the handicap you’ve voluntarily taken on. The mechanics/dynamics are exactly the same.

    In 2016, society has created an environment where legal marriage etc is not only tying your legs, but it’s tying your hands and blindfolding you as well, while simultaneously conditioning girls to believe that they’ll be showered with rewards and attention and validation for pushing you over. You’re still “moving from point A to point B”, but doing so has been made significantly more difficult in 2016. The same principles always apply, dread game and preselection still do what they’re supposed to do, but because of the 2016 environment that tries to condition girls into bailing when they feel dread and rationalizing it away as you’re emotionally abusive and they have 500 Tinder guys with pics of themselves in front of their fancy cars lined up and Amy Schumer showing them how an ugly woman in their 40s can still land the rich doctor, you’re playing against a stacked deck and trying to execute the same shit that has always worked is tougher because social conditioning has fucked with girls heads (if not yours then her friends/family/etc)

    But it’s all the same shit and all these artificial distinctions and categorizations are just giving guys bits and pieces of a system instead of teaching them what they should know in full.

    Whether it’s MGTOWs refusing to learn about Buyer’s Remorse, married guys trying to figure out how to be attractive without having to make their wife feel bad feels, newbies trying to figure out how to get laid without having to leave their basement and actually talk to girls, relationship guys trying to figure out how to make their relationship work while still having one-itis, married guys trying to convince other guys to tie their legs while dabbling bits and pieces of vague feel-good philosophy resulting in guys who won’t be prepared to handle having their legs tied, etc

    “I still get confused and conflate terminologies sometimes. I just want to understand things in the right context.”

    That’s why I’m going on about it. This is a problem I’ve seen and everyone’s getting real comfortable making up brand new distinctions that aren’t there, overcomplicating the fundamental knowledge-base which confuses new guys and makes this stuff seem overwhelming to learn.

    @Corleone
    “Given that the dog came first, maybe her doubts aren’t entirely unreasonable.:-)”

    lol’ed at this, didn’t notice that when I read it either.

  81. @YaReally, “It does a disservice to guys who are trying to figure out what the fuck is going on and how to fix their lives.”

    EXACTLY, why you should write a book instead of constantly repeating what you say in comments scattered among dozens of posts. I had to create a page on my site of your comments and categorize it to keep it straight in my head. This is why guys will continue to be confused. They need a comprehensive book outlining why PUA and Red Pill is the same stuff – as you’ve covered here.

    I know writing a book would somehow out you because you’d have to give up personal data to collect your money, but can’t you at least trust Rollo and you guys go into a JV on writing a book?

  82. @Corleone
    ““I get in now and grab the dog and bodily throw him up on the steep bank. THEN I do the same with Mrs. T.””

    Yeah I spotted that too – that was funny.. In my case if the dog had been one of our kids though, the kid would have been first, no questions asked. I’m sure my ex would have understood…

    I guess is just shows how much people can love their dogs

Speak your mind

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s