Trust Issues

I was driving with a friend of mine and his wife to a promo last month. The parking at this particular gig was packed so it made sense to take one car and as I sat in the back seat I observed the behaviors and connected them to the conversation his wife and he were having while we drove. He was driving as well as any other guy I know; observant, careful, efficient, casual, basically a good driver, I didn’t even give his driving much mind. However, judging from the nervousness and fidgety behavioral tics of his wife you’d think he was drunk and reckless.

She clung tightly to the “oh shit” handle you see above the passenger-side window in most SUVs today. Her body language was one of fear trying to maintain polite composure, but every time we’d slow for traffic or a stop she would gesture with her hands as if she were bracing herself for impact. She simply did not trust her husband in the driver’s seat. She’d insist he switch lanes miles ahead of a turn so as to be ready to make the turn, or she’d coyly ask him to slow down when we were on the highway.

I see this a lot in couples where the power dynamic is one where the woman is the tacit authority of the relationship. These two were a textbook example. The buzz word term for it is ‘passive aggressive’ behavior, but that behavior is prompted by a root-level influence of women’s security need. My friend, being the Beta he is, made every attempt to calm his wife’s fears by accommodating her passive (and some not so passive) posturing and requests. It still wasn’t enough. She simply doesn’t trust the man she’s been married to for 10 years with her safety – regardless of his actions.

Now, from a Red Pill perspective, it’s important to bear in mind that women are always looking for an emotional rush whether positive or negative. I detail this in Indignation but in the absence of indignation, women will actively create it for themselves. Any PUA worth his salt knows that leaving an emotional impression on a woman is a key to seduction. Some men can do this effortlessly and often unaware depending on the social context and circumstances he surrounds himself with. These are guys we think are ‘naturals’ even though the learning process and the trial, error, reward mechanisms of it for him are just an internalized part of his personality. However, making this emotional impression can be learned, expressed ‘naturally’ and it can be internalized.

When we look at the dual nature of Hypergamy we tend to focus primarily on the Alpha Fucks side of women’s sexual strategy. For obvious reasons, it’s the part guys tend to have the most interest in, and since seduction is the key to STRs and LTRs, it’s also the part guys need to develop most. It’s tough for most Blue Pill men to behave counter to what their conditioning has taught them. Just like my friend’s driving here, most guys believe that comfort, trust, rapport, friendship, appeasement, and generally self-sacrificing are what’s at the heart of a good relationship. All of course based on the mystical “open communication” trope.

Selfish vs Self-Interest

Vox Day had an interesting back and forth with Kitten Holiday about this dynamic this weekend:

https://twitter.com/voxday/status/762307577560563712

For men who’ve been conditioned to believe that the key to success with women is to play nice and solve women’s problems for them with patient understanding, suggesting selfishness is attractive to women is counterintuitive. However, agreeableness and humility in men have been associated with a negative predictor of sex partners. So is it selfishness that makes a guy attractive or arousing?

I’ve suggested in the past that it is actually men who dare to place themselves at the center of their lives who make the most significant emotional impact upon women. This emotional impression is a byproduct of men who make themselves their first priority and when this prioritization becomes an internalized second nature to a man we say that he’s made himself his Mental Point of Origin.

I’m clarifying this here because it’s easy to conflate ‘enlightened self-interest’ with “selfishness”. A common criticism among the MGTOW set is that a man investing himself into anything with the express purpose of attracting women is vanity or wasted effort. However, it’s defining the point where this personal investment in oneself crosses over into having the effect of being an attractive trait to women that needs some more clarification. I covered this in Crisis of Motive, and unfortunately, it’s a line that’s subjective to the man who’s invested himself in virtually anything that uniquely benefits him and is attractive/arousing for women.

So we have two countermanding imperatives here. Men are conditioned, personally and publicly, to believe that niceness, comfort, and trust are the keys to success with women (whom we are told will have an affinity and appreciation for it). All of these Blue Pill qualities are pro-social attributes, yet in practice, in the real world, we observe men with anti-social, ‘selfish’ interest are rewarded with women’s attention. Self-interested men make a more significant emotional impression.

When we contrast this with the two aspects of women’s sexual strategy we see that the Blue Pill (pro-social) traits align with the Beta Bucks side of Hypergamy, while the ‘selfish’ (anti-social) aspects align with the arousing Alpha Fucks desires of women. For the Blue Pill invested man, it’s baffling to see how ‘selfish’ men are rewarded with intimacy, genuine desire, and sex. What they lack is a complete understanding of women’s dual sexual natures.

“So I gotta be an asshole to get women to notice me? Chicks really dig jerks?”

I’ve been reading this response from newly unplugged nice guys for as long as I’ve been writing. It’s the binary response I’ve come to expect from guys still on the fence with regard to Red Pill awareness, but it goes back to the negative associations they have with making themselves their own mental point of origin. It’s ‘selfishness’ not self-interest and this is exactly the opposite of what they’ve been taught will resolve problems for them.

This then comes back to my first point about women’s need for security. I’ve been married for over 20 years now, and for as good a marriage as I have, I still have my doubts that Mrs. T trusts me implicitly with her life.

It’s ironic because I actually saved her life when we were first married. There was a very swift moving river we used to walk our dogs along when we lived in Tahoe. It was spring and the river was high from snowmelt runoff, and it was cold – as in take your breath away before you’re paralyzed cold. One of our dogs had spied a few ducks on the opposite side of the river and bolted into it to go after them. About half way across he realizes it was a stupid idea and turns back. He couldn’t make it and the river swept him downstream. We both ran down the river after him to a point where he’d pass and Mrs. T jumped in to catch him. She goes numb in seconds, but she caught the dog by the collar. I know I’m going to have to go in to get them now so I prep in my head what to do. I get in now and grab the dog and bodily throw him up on the steep bank. Then I do the same with Mrs. T right before the water is so cold I can barely move. I managed to grab a large tree root in the bank I’d seen earlier to haul myself out.

In spite of that very memorable event, I’m not sure I have my wife’s implicit trust in this respect. I know that sounds bad, but even after all of that, there was no acknowledged appreciation for it. I was just doing what a man is expected to do. In many other aspects, I have my wife’s trust, but I wonder if the want for an emotional impression isn’t buffered by a need for security.

In my friend’s case, this lack of trust is manifested in his wife’s demeanor and interactions with him. The more Beta the man a woman’s paired herself with the more evident her need for security becomes a part of their relationship. Remember that security comes in many different forms. It’s entirely possible for a dutiful Beta to be a great provider, but still not be trusted with his decision making or his capacity to protect his woman from harm.

Women today are already raised to never put their trust in men as it is. Men are at best lovable buffoons, at worst untrustworthy incorrigible players. Popular culture directs women to only rely on themselves, to only trust in their own, implicitly correct decisions and directions – and then absolve them of any negative consequence of those decisions. Thus, we have several generations of women who claim the authority role in their LTRs and relegate their men to only marginally trusted companions.

All of that said, I would suggest that men opt to not concern themselves with so-called “trust issues” with women. Women’s feral nature is founded in Hypergamy and part of that nature will always be to doubt the quality of the man she’s paired herself with. It may seem ‘selfish’, but placing yourself as your first priority will be far more appreciated and accepted than a man attempting to endlessly earn the trust from a woman that can only be temporal at best. Your lack of concern over her status of trusting you will have much more impact than trying to appease her for it.

Beta men are endlessly told that a woman’s trust and rapport, her comfort level with a guy, is essential to her being intimate or sexual, or having a good relationship. Those are the guys who feel the sting the most when they see a woman at her feral best fuck the hot guy she met the same night who made a significant emotional impression on her. The guy who invested his interests in himself and she happened to be along for his ride.

Trust is just a convenient term used by women to vet for Beta men. ‘Trust’ only amounts to a list of prerequisites and rules for a Beta who believes it’s his duty to fulfill them, which are never an afterthought for women with more Alpha men.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Jeff Arnall
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Women are so changeable from moment to moment that concerning yourself with trust issues or any other issue she brings up is a fool’s errand. http://besttoolsformen.com

Trent Lane
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@ YaReally „Like, a handful of you guys have checked out Mystery Method, but how many of you would have EVER looked at it if I wasn’t here going on and on about it in every fucking post lol If I just didn’t exist and no one talked about it except the guys brushing it off as fuzzy hat nonsense. I have to post about MM 500000 times just to get a handful of dudes outside of the PUA community (who WANT TO LEARN HOW TO FUCK GIRLS) to even bother to actually check it out or watch Mystery’s seminars“… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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” . . . it’s all there in the old stuff.”

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jbcurio/2968815250

Circa 1960.

VolteFace
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@Rollo

“In spite of that very memorable event, I’m not sure I have my wife’s implicit trust in this respect. I know that sounds bad, but even after all of that, there was no acknowledged appreciation for it. I was just doing what a man is expected to do. In many other aspects, I have my wife’s trust, but I wonder if the want for an emotional impression isn’t buffered by a need for security.”

Because you saved the dog first.

Blaximus
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O/T for a sec….From the sidebar. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/dylan-jones-men-have-never-had-it-so-good/ Manxiety?? Okay. I will remain calm and collected here. I implore all newbs and lurkers reading here ( Hi guys!!!! I know you’re out there!!! ) once again to eschew societal bullshit like this naming convention garbage. Take a minute to check out the article. I wanted to punch the interviewee in the face very hard. That asshole is my age and his smugness is infuriating concerning something that no longer affects him or his peers. He’s just happy as fuck that young guys can shop and act like women. Traitor. Yup, it… Read more »

kfg
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” . . . extraordinary access men have to the consumer world, which they didn’t 30 years ago . . .”

Which raises the question: wherever did Popular Mechanics, Field & Stream and Road & Track ever find enough advertisers to support themselves?

kfg
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Sarah Walter is a more believable man.

Fred Flange, Authorized Safe Zone Pemit #333
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Fred Flange, Authorized Safe Zone Pemit #333
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@kfg

That How To Pick Up Girls book?

It’s from the late 1970’s. Not the ’60s.

NEVER MIND HOW I KNOW.

Blaximus
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@ Sentient
@ kfg

Ha ha ha ha haaaaa!!!!!

So Mr. Jones likes men and masculine women.

A picture is stiil worth a thousand words, even when adjusted for inflation.

Blaximus
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” Which raises the question: wherever did Popular Mechanics, Field & Stream and Road & Track ever find enough advertisers to support themselves?”

Yeah, I didn’t get what Mr. Jones was getting at with that statement at all. So men have had access to ” teh consumer world ” , but now that access is extraordinary?

How did I miss all of this extraordinary-ism?

I stopped reading GQ about 15 or so years ago. Looks like I got out just in time.

kfg
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“It’s from the late 1970’s.”

First publication 1973, to be precise, but I recall an earlier Plain Brown Wrapper variant. Might have been a NYC peddled from the trunk of his car sort of thing though.

I also recall that the number one suggested pickup line was “hi.”

Blaximus
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toocutebyhalf
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@newlyaloof, I’m not talking about saving pets either.

If a guy’s mental point of origin is himself, is it surprising that a woman would subconsciously not trust him to save her over him?

I mean, jeez, even in Rollo’s example he saves the dog first.

IAS
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It isn’t news that a dog saves a man, but that a man saves a dog (before he saves his wife).

hank holiday
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@culum @forge @yareally @pua Figured out dhv issue and qualification Instead of sex book dhv, use the wine dhv. it was when I went to a wine shop and everyone was buying wine for me and I felt like a hot chick. so after stalker dhv “yeah, a lot of times I feel like a hot chick. I went to this wine shop one time and all these girls kept buying me wine. Lol, it was just like being a hot chick. Everyone was just trying to get me drunk and get into my pants lol.” and if time can… Read more »

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@Sentient Anyone can adopt the “I am the prize” mentality…until some hot girl shit-tests them and then they cave in and start self-doubting. I think the super-power concept is like those early Marvel and DC comics where something happens in a lab and bam…Peter Parker becomes Spiderman. The beta becomes the alpha. The only difference as has been pointed out in other blogs is that Superman IS the alpha and Clark Kent is his beta alter ego. I think therefore I am is a bit much for guys who’ve been conditioned to believe that whatever they think is somehow wrong… Read more »

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@ Blaximus,

The right way and the wrong way for opposite day – lol. That video is a real gem. Of course it would be put out by the military. No surprise there.

Forge the Sky
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Lol @ people who’re going on about saving the dog first. I wasn’t there (fun fact!) but it sounded like the dog was getting swept downstream and so had to be grabbed immediately or not at all. Anyways. My father loves driving, and trusts himself completely doing so. He tracks races. On long road trips he refused to let anyone else drive for significant periods, preferring to kill his adrenals with coffee so that he could be confident we would all be safe. Back when he was about 20 and had just met my mother, they took a cross-country trip… Read more »

Sentient
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There is a joke there somewhere about a man under compensating with the size of his Ducati…

Matt
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I stumbled upon this blog in the early stages of when I was dating my current girlfriend. I was google searching/yahoo answer looking about what to do about her going dancing every Monday. I knew in my gut that it wasn’t healthy for our relationship, so I put my foot down and said no and found validation through this blog. I started reading this blog daily and applying its principals. I proposed to my girl in April and am giving married in September. This blog and other red pill sites have helped termendoudly. I am giving a copy of ‘the… Read more »

Sentient
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alas the web gods have ruined the moment.. image now appears as normal sized not tiny…

Forge the Sky
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@Hank That sounds a bit more polished. The sex book thing is coming on a bit strong for a lot of situs, so it’s good to have it in the back pocket if things are going well, but going from ‘so I need girl advice’ to ‘sooo, about a bunch of sex positions’ isn’t always ideal. It could maybe work in more situs if the story had a bigger punchline so you can pass it as a good joke you want to tell. If you have the time, I’d advise watching this video. It’s been linked before but it’s a… Read more »

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@Sentient

Well, as the saying goes about apples and trees. Here’s a picture of me driving to work yesterday.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-S5fdqAKS9ek/Tzlwl-UbdeI/AAAAAAAAAOU/CYp_4JHQaV8/s1600/mini+bike.jpg

redlight
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@matt One of things Rollo hasn’t covered completely is the gift registry, so see: https://www.theknot.com/content/wedding-registry-choosing-your-plates-and-serveware Wedding Registry Choosing Your Plates and Serveware … Remember, this is a joint decision. Both of you should look through magazines and browse online to pull favorite plates … Don’t try to squeeze yourself into white plates with a platinum rim — trust us, it’ll be an uncomfortable fit. … Lifestyle issues play a big part in how you register, but unless you’re much older, you can’t possibly know how you’ll ultimately entertain 20 years from now. These days, couples are registering for both fine… Read more »

toocutebyhalf
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Honestly, it didn’t even register to me that saving the dog first was noteworthy when I read the entry. Only after seeing it mentioned in other comments did it add anything. But, like, I get saving the dog first. That’s not really important. I maintain that Mrs. T does trust Rollo with her life. All women who submit to their Alpha SOs trust them or they wouldn’t submit to them. If a guy’s mental point of origin is himself, is it surprising that a woman would subconsciously not trust him to save her over him? The answer is, of course,… Read more »

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@yareally @culum @forge @pua Okay, got a day 2. Girl is prolly the most into me I have had lol. So worked on my dhv more. shortened the stalker dhv. mall, in bad city. 7 black on phone “you catching pokemon or swiping on tinder?” “I’m on instagram actually.” girl very receptive. i think she already liked me here. “well I’ve got a quick question for you. i need a girl’s opinion. I was at a coffee shop when this girl sat down right next to me. She had her legs cross and skirt hiked up. I chatted with her… Read more »

hank holiday
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@yareally @culum @forge @pua other part of this FR had 3 more sets I didn’t number close on (though last was a two set I COULD have closed, but girls were underage lol so I didn’t) black 5 in stand. out in the open, I think her boss was around which would explain a lot. she did more of the big laughs were again could tell if it was “OMG that’s crazy” or “OMG thats wierd.” she said that maybe stalker girl just found my facebook page because they automatically detected me. That is you have facebook on cellphones it… Read more »

redlight
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@2cutebi1/2 Honestly, it didn’t even register to me that saving the dog first was noteworthy when I read the entry. Only after seeing it mentioned in other comments did it add anything. But, like, I get saving the dog first. … I guess my real question is, does it bother you if she doesn’t trust you with her life? Rollo says he has his doubts that his wife doesn’t and then says it’s ironic because he’s actually saved her. Well, okay. Do men want their women to trust them with their lives? Do men want their women to feel that… Read more »

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@TooCute Mrs. T trusts Rollo with her life. But she didn’t acknowledge that she appreciated it by verbalizing it afterwards. It was duty on Rollo’s part. And he is astute enough to realize what that entailed for him and what it entails for 100% Alpha males, greater beta/less than 100 Alpha males and Beta males. “All women who submit to their Alpha SOs trust them or they wouldn’t submit to them.” And yes, that is the important point. Submission by a woman in a relationship requires trust. But what what Rollo is pointing out that the trust is Hypergamous Trust… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@hank Well I post that then you rebutt with a day 2. Lol, well done. “when I said the part about feeling like a sex object, she said “we’re all just sex objects” and walked forward maybe 5 feet to where people were coming off an escalator.” She’s trying to get you to escalate. She’s trying to give you an easy pass so you’ll talk w her sexually. Once you hit a hook point w a girl, she’ll start giving you huge openings/opportunities to seduce her (while maintaining some degree of deniability). This is what that looks like. #close girl:… Read more »

Culum Struan
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@hank holiday – great work on the number close/Day 2!

See what happens when you go out and practice consistently?

I thought you had a major elaborate Day 2 planned? I remember reading a big post about your Day 2 plans a few weeks ago>

toocutebyhalf
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@sjf, hmm. Thank you for explaining that. I see what you’re saying. I think I better understand hypergamous trust now. Thanks.

Sun Wukong
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@Forge

I got a group you can join if you can handle a 125:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUPr-L6BprRHBS0EIBxciCA

IAS
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@Rollo: I think the dog first is more of an ongoing joke here than us actually attributing your sense of priorities. I think most people realized it would be easy to toss the lighter dog.

Mrs. T. was probably still holding the dog anyway and moving them both at the same time would be even harder.

Still, it does seem funny when pointed out.

Did anyone else think of this, by the way?

YaReally
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@Trent Lane “I read this and thought, genius, why hasn’t anybody ever thought about this? Turns out, someone has. After your recommendations I read the Tyler Digest and it’s all in there. It’s called the Short Set Method.” lol AS I was reading your post I was like “that’s just Short Set Method” and was going to link the Tyler post about it and then got to this part and lol’ed. This is sort of my point, guys are out there re-“discovering” shit that’s already been mapped out and tested in detail for anyone to learn if they’d just look… Read more »

stuffinbox
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Not sleeping so wtf. Water fast enough a dog can’t cross it,cold enough to cause hypothermia in minutes,slick river rock,under currents,coupled with a womens propensity to save her baby dog without thinking of the consequences. A man is lucky enough to stand in this without getting sucked in,then grab two more struggling swimmers without getting swept away.Trust issue? How did you get her to let go of the dog? Trust or survival instinct ,probably trust. Still I can’t resist.Good job man,don’t get your arm tired from patting your back.What do you have a white dog savior schema?It’s time to go… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
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@dog
Dog, you know we were just poking fun at your master. He did the right thing according to his analysis of the situation smile

Colbert
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@ Hank,

I was perusing the YaReally archives and stumbled upon one of his responses to a commenter that you might find helpful when you find yourself at the stage where you are ready to start escalating/dealing with a girl’s shit tests. It’s under his “how to” section on the Buying Temperature and Buyer’s Remourse link and is dated for April 17, 2012. I thought it was a good breakdown that you might find helpful/useful. Good stuff.

Colbert
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Haha – lol, it was helpful for me anyway since I don’t know any of this stuff :). It’s all counterintuitive for me like that dopey video that Blaximus posted earlier – lol.

NuDiam0ndz
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Damn, she’s sexy af. I love how dude was straight faced the whole time while she was screaming her lungs out. Italia!

redlight
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@yareally, matt, mansplainers “Shouldn’t it just be EXPECTED that she won’t ever fully trust you? Like she’ll trust you in the moment but then in the NEXT moment she’ll have to test you to make sure she can trust you?” Nailed it like usual. If one had a dog you wouldn’t have constant shit tests, the bitch trusts you. Okay, shit tests might not be the best phrase here, but the bitch knows her place. However women follow the trust and constantly verify model. If there is an event in the man’s life that seems to temporarily shake him emotionally,… Read more »

othergrain
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@ Hank Her joke about getting killed by, or killing your stalker could have been a perfect place for some roleplay. Roleplay can involve future time projection, which can roll into a time bridge, as forge noted was missing. Just something to chew on, your FR was great. Nice job DISqualifying her a few times (LA, lawyer) before qualifying her on her entrepreneurship. I think you were just brainstorming about that this week, so nice job implementing it. While it may have been improvised, as you mentioned with the julien qualifier “where are you from?” Only two outcomes, and you’re… Read more »

anon
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Emily at Insanity’s place: (1)“Was this on the so-called ‘manosphere’ blogs? I’ve read a few of them and they are absolutely revolting in how misogynistic they are. I had to stop reading what they wrote and arguing with them because frankly, it all made me very depressed. Seriously though, I think you are the perfect feminist, Insanity. You are what feminists should be like.” (2)“Yep. I used to let my boyfriend abuse me and others around him, emotionally and physically, because I thought that came with being an ‘alpha.’ He used to get into lots of fights, bullied others and… Read more »

Sentient
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The reason a woman will never fullybtrust you has less to do with you than her. She cant fully trust you first and foremost because she knows she cant trust herself. She needs constant reminders that she made the right choice. Observe women and note that this practice will extend to lipstick, shoe, blouse, lunch, and hair style choices she has made. This is part of the cockblocking and it just happened phenomena. Changing her mood and the reality that emotion is the only truth to a woman. She will always be looking for confirmation. Which is also why leading… Read more »

Sentient
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On the “Good Will Hunting” meme re the library… the problem with this, and the equalist thinking behind it, is Will Hunting was a motivated genius… as MIT has proven with their MOOC program (and Harvard and others) having vast knowledge readily available is only a small part of learning… and one that the Library of Congress, NY Public Library etc. had in hand for 100 years… What it takes is someone to have the desire and discipline + the intellect to pursue learning and knowledge and mastery (as SJF will call it). No desire, you never seek it out.… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
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@rollo
As usual I think I and most of us missed the lesson. It might have been more useful and eye-opening if this post was part of the original article. This is a valuable lesson. Thank you!

Sentient
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The want for that unconditional trust on the part of Beta men DOGS is akin to the false belief that men DOGS and women CATS share mutually accepted concepts of love. We idealistically want women’s CAT’S opportunistic love to align with our own concept. The same is true of a Beta DOG mindset that wants women CATS to trust a man DOG implicitly.

CATS are not DOGS.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/4623646/meow-o.gif

Forge the Sky
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@Rollo Oh, I see. So basically trust is something which is never perfect and, so far as it exists, based on factors entirely different than attempts to earn or win it. As such, any appeal to trust – or lack thereof – is a manipulation. An attempt to get a man to do as he’s told, utilizing the latent shame he holds for not being ‘trustworthy.’ It works well because not being considered trustworthy stings for a man. Trust among men is essential for cooperation, and is basically a measure of one’s status and competency within the male group –… Read more »

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“She cant fully trust you first and foremost because she knows she cant trust herself. She needs constant reminders that she made the right choice. Observe women and note that this practice will extend to “wanting to fuck you. Rollo was half covertly explaining Hypergamous Trust. Further illustration of Hypergamous Hierarchy of Trust manifested by sexual satisfaction: Female Hypergamous Trust given to 100% Alpha Chad of Romance Novels: “Thank you for the orgasm! That was great. I can’t sleep. ” Female Hypergamous Trust associated with greater Beta, Lesser Alpha (husband, father of her children and provider): “Thank you for fucking… Read more »

SJF
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Not trying to re-interpret anyone, I wrote that last comment early this morning and just pushed the “post comment” button.

Anon
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Cool story Liz (anon?)

toocutebyhalf
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@Rollo, “I honestly don’t care whether I have my wife’s implicit trust, and in fact I’m glad I don’t. … Alpha men simply don’t concern themselves with a woman’s trust.”

You just seemed baffled by the irony that, as good as your marriage is, you don’t think she trusts you with her life, when you totally saved her that one time.

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”EXACTLY, why you should write a book instead of constantly repeating what you say in comments scattered among dozens of posts. I had to create a page on my site of your comments and categorize it to keep it straight in my head. This is why guys will continue to be confused. They need a comprehensive book outlining why PUA and Red Pill is the same stuff – as you’ve covered here. I know writing a book would somehow out you because you’d have to give up personal data to collect your money, but can’t you at least trust Rollo… Read more »

Kate
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Never trust a man who trusts women.

toocutebyhalf
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Okay! Fair enough. I get it. I get what you’re all saying about trust overall. I do.

I just can’t wrap my head around some of the nuances of it.

Chump No More
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Chump No More
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@Rollo, “Tingles trump trust every time. Stop believing the lie that women need trust when their consistent behavior proves that even the Good Girls will make exceptions for the most untrustworthy men if they see his SMV as being above her own. In fact, any woman who tells you she needs to be more comfortable with you or for whom you need to prove your trustworthiness, that woman considers you a Beta. Act accordingly.” Exactly^^ A woman stating she trusts you is the ultimate Beta Tell. Trust, comfort, familiarity are all destroyers of arousal and desire. Women crave the polar… Read more »

redlight
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redlight
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Kate for the win, google says (surprisingly) that exact phrase never used before

cheupez
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cheupez
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@anon
Trolololololololest

Kate
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Kate
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You may kiss the ring 💋

kfg
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kfg
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“As such, any appeal . . . is a manipulation.”

Culum Struan
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@Sentient – that motivation process you’re talking about – the desire to get better etc is pretty much what Daniel Coyle’s Talent Code book is about (that both SJF and I have posted about). To develop a skill – any skill whether tennis or social skills, you need an enormous amount of hard work and discipline, but the fuel for it is emotional – some reason or rationale which EMOTIONALLY pushes you to achieve – what Coyle calls “Ignition” @Forge – great explanation/summary of Rollo’s post, especially this bit: “So basically trust is something which is never perfect and, so… Read more »

kfg
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” – some reason or rationale which EMOTIONALLY pushes you to achieve – what Coyle calls “Ignition””

And which standard English calls “motivation,” or in the case of some arts “inspiration.”

kfg
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kfg
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The “motivational” field exists because there exist men who intellectually desire to achieve, but emotionally do not.

Culum Struan
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Culum Struan
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YaReally Sentient HABD Forge Junior Hank and PUA Gang Blitz Two Weeks is over. The Culum Show will be back in September. Saturday night kiddie club (although a few older people too) – overall good, pushed boundaries learned a lot. The more I do this the more I just really get into the energy and buzz of a club. It’s early days but I can kinda see how girls use the club as a state-pumping device and pump themselves up. Stopped counting approaches (but did a fair few – think I ended up on 60 odd for the whole two… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@Rollo @YaReally ‘Not a day goes by that I don’t have a guy email or tweet me about how my books have opened their eyes and changed their life’s perspective about how they deal with women. You can say that’s just repackaging the ideas PUAs have been espousing for 15 years, but the psychological and behavioral principles PUA is founded on has existed long before Mystery was born. Even Mystery credits behavioral and evo psychology in the development of his “method”.’ All this is true, of course. The question is, what leads a man to actually pursuing RP/PUA in a… Read more »

Sentient
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Culum

Good Fr’s, good effort. Lots to delve into but no time… these are the standout thought ATM though:

1. “What would you have needed from a girl for you to ACT and try and a) get her number or b) pull?”

Would she have to lead? Ask? Beg? Pay for it?

2. How did you feel when your quasi wing was making out with the hottest girl in your sets after a short time? What did he do that you weren’t doing? Did he get her number or did he pull?

Kate
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Rollo, I knew three years ago how he would turn out. The thing is, Mark and I had to throw out that script, and we’ve written something entirely new. I’ll check in on our fifth anniversary. If I’m right again, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet smile

Forge the Sky
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@Culum rt Great FR! The thing I’m seeing now isn’t a lack of sets, opens, sexualizing – it’s just a lack of making them go somewhere. I assume you’ve seen the video where Julien has a student talking w a girl outside the club, just keeping the interaction going + making a pass for a number – then Julien just sort of steps in, steals her, and just starts leading her away while making her laugh and just deflecting resistance with ‘just a second, just lets find my friends’ and other random noise. And she’s cool and happy with it.… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@Rollo

I lost a comment to spam filter, I think because I used K.a.r.e.n. Straughn’s name in it and her first name is shared by a banned commentator.

Don’t know if it’s easy to fish out, if not no big deal.

walawala
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@Culum, great FR…. one thing to comment on: “”Much later I reopened her in smoking area briefly but didn’t know where to go with it and she wasn’t alone etc – I should really have tried to isolate her then and have a proper conversation but I’d already mentally switched off and decided to go home so I wimped out on that which is a pity.”” Don’t waste your time on “two-sets” or “Three-sets”…yah yah yah, there’s a methodology. But why make it hard on yourself? Focus on girls on their own. As for not knowing where to go with… Read more »

walawala
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Best line of the thread: Rollo: “tingles trump trust.”

redlight
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Best line of the thread: Rollo: “tingles trump trust.”

Again the need for brand awareness

If Rollo had titled his essay this, he would get everybody who likes or hates trump, plus the tingles crowd, and PETA of course. Party!

Forge the Sky
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Thanks Rollo.

Forge the Sky
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@Redlight

True, even though I kinda hate that fact. Just an idealogical thing for me or something, but I resent that good, nuanced content on (for example) RSD channels has to pimp itself with fucking clickbait titles.

hank holiday
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@yareally @culum @forge @pua sometimes it hurts to be such a stud lol first, did more of a number close on 7 than you think. Tried to text her my name at number close, but couldn’t get phone to do it. told her I would text her in a few minutes. texted her an hour and a half later lol. but still could have done more here. 7 flaked, but in almost verbatim to black 7 from a few months ago. Can diagnose issue. # close the issue, and in general is where I need to work, on later in… Read more »

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@yareally @culum @pua @forge okay, asian flaking, but in a good way lol long text “hey, it was nice to meet you. but i have a boyfriend so i’m not interested in meeting you for icecream. sorry! thank you though!” 100% no mention of bf until now. feel like this is asd. she’s also away from home sooo. . .again, good if I can just get her alone, but now she has has time to think about her bf back at home soo . .. hence the flake. tried to call, went straight to voice mail. when have a chance,… Read more »

redlight
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Rollo tweeted “never trust a man who trusts women”

has 40 retweets and called “tweet of the century”

Junior
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@Culum That could easily be one of my FRs. Seems we’re at very similar stages. Can totally relate to the rush of just getting little pieces of compliance like waving your HB6 over. One thought I had when reading your conversation with the HB6 was to try to move her. I read somewhere in the old PUA lit that you use qualification or isolation as a test to bring up the road map of where you are in the M3 model. If she won’t qualify or move somewhere with you (ie. give you compliance), you loop back into attraction material,… Read more »

hank holiday
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@yareally @blax @culum @forge @pua okay, blax, I need your stories about meeting celebrities I’m going to steal them lol here’s the deal. my wine dhv is falling flat because my subcoms aren’t sexworthy enough to pull off. my whole “yeah sometimes I feel like a hot chick” is falling flat because I am not ACTING like it — plus I wouldn’t MENTION it if I was really that good lol so I need to redo this dhv — and wait a bit until to use it until my subcoms improve what I CAN do now is use a dhv… Read more »

Ajax Parallax
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@ hank holiday wrote “where you from” “korea” “ohhh I’ve heard bad things about korean girls.” “what?” “that they are troublemakers. they get in fights all the time.” got invested. was saying like she would blow up cars or someshit. biiig. should have roleplayed more here. just said something about her karate chopping shit lol. but could have done lot more. honestly though, not necessary for this situ…” Hank. I’ve been around and have been with multiple racially/ethnically diverse girls, IMO, you need to get rid of your whole racial stereotyping joking like the above on cold approaches. Joking to… Read more »

Anon
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Anon, people don’t have threesomes at 13-14.Not sure where you heard that from.

Colbert
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@ Jimmeh,

Haha.The Book Of YaReally. Great resource! Just downloaded it into my iBooks (nice cover BTW). You indexed the different topics/areas nicely. Well done.

Colbert
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It’s like an encyclopedia on the application of game. Very useful Jimmeh.

newlyaloof
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@Jimmeh, well done indeed. YaReally should have Lumpy add that to his site.

Sentient
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Culum A few more thoughts on you FR’s 1. I just said “Hey” and then when they looked at me I complimented the face paint or something and BOOM we were in a conversation – 3 of us and two of them. This fizzled out a while later not so much for lack of trying but just it got complicated because my wings were letting it drift into a meaningless chat and we didn’t know who each of us wanted as targets and it was hard to isolate either girl. Awesome… so you see the open doesn’t matter at all,… Read more »

othergrain
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@culum “I don’t know quite what to make of that. Could it actually be my first experience ever with an AMOG(s) entering my set?” Could be, but you said it felt good natured. You got the entire group to react to you…based on everything you’ve learned of game, how do you think that affected bartender? But you walked away, and *heard* them DLV you after you left. Why not stick it out, befriend them, and have a group of high energy dudes to proof you on and off all night. Just pop in, get them to react, and bounce out.… Read more »

Sentient
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Culum / Junior Any thoughts on how to approach the end of the night? Both in the club and (more importantly) on the street with the drunk/high BT girls leaving the clubs? I just said something. Not saying that having planned structure isn’t good, just that something’s better than nothing. The other side of this is showing persistence => remember that girls will likely show resistance as a test, & a positive persistent frame that shows you’re willing to pursue what you want will open more doors than you think. Spot on with the open Junior. Have a plan via… Read more »

Major Styles
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I remember this dynamic (man driving/woman complaining) when I was a teenager. It happened to a friend of mine (the man) and his girlfriend. He was the supplicating beta and she, the problematic woman.

That girl ended up fucking all his friends. She gave a mutual friend a blowjob in the closet of a party about two weeks after the car incident. I was the only friend that did not bang her – call me principled, for better or worse.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

anon
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Emily, it still shows up in your posting history even though you’ve attempted to delete it. Nice try though. Topic: Heterosexual women , would you ever participate in a [threesome] with another girl ? If you have, how did that happen ? by [deleted] in sex [–]EmilyCharland 1 point 14 days ago Things were fine.. We were all young, it was all our first time and it was all mutually consensual. I wasn’t close enough to the bf to feel jealous either. That’s probably why I planned the threesome in the first place. Topic: How common is the [MFM threesome]… Read more »

Anon
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Anon
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It was our first time having a threesome (I was almost 17 btw), not first time having sex, Liz.

hank holiday
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@forge @culum @yareally @pua okay, so a few additions here @othergrain @ajax “a good looking Latino guy and the 7.5 tried to say something simple in Spanish to him and he kept saying he didn’t understand – but he was so deadpan even I couldn’t tell if he was being serious or teasing her. ” Was that Hank in a Latino costume? Lol Indeed, twas I. After my cover was blown, I slipped away with the mariachi band. I quickly discarded my mexican outfit and donned a new one. I am now disguised as a chinaman, replete with fu-man-chu, rattail,… Read more »

redlight
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redlight
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Liz, she can’t get married and have children with roosh until she completes the virgin reset, he has strict rules having replaced his pickup bible with The Bible

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