Trust Issues

I was driving with a friend of mine and his wife to a promo last month. The parking at this particular gig was packed so it made sense to take one car and as I sat in the back seat I observed the behaviors and connected them to the conversation his wife and he were having while we drove. He was driving as well as any other guy I know; observant, careful, efficient, casual, basically a good driver, I didn’t even give his driving much mind. However, judging from the nervousness and fidgety behavioral tics of his wife you’d think he was drunk and reckless.

She clung tightly to the “oh shit” handle you see above the passenger-side window in most SUVs today. Her body language was one of fear trying to maintain polite composure, but every time we’d slow for traffic or a stop she would gesture with her hands as if she were bracing herself for impact. She simply did not trust her husband in the driver’s seat. She’d insist he switch lanes miles ahead of a turn so as to be ready to make the turn, or she’d coyly ask him to slow down when we were on the highway.

I see this a lot in couples where the power dynamic is one where the woman is the tacit authority of the relationship. These two were a textbook example. The buzz word term for it is ‘passive aggressive’ behavior, but that behavior is prompted by a root-level influence of women’s security need. My friend, being the Beta he is, made every attempt to calm his wife’s fears by accommodating her passive (and some not so passive) posturing and requests. It still wasn’t enough. She simply doesn’t trust the man she’s been married to for 10 years with her safety – regardless of his actions.

Now, from a Red Pill perspective, it’s important to bear in mind that women are always looking for an emotional rush whether positive or negative. I detail this in Indignation but in the absence of indignation, women will actively create it for themselves. Any PUA worth his salt knows that leaving an emotional impression on a woman is a key to seduction. Some men can do this effortlessly and often unaware depending on the social context and circumstances he surrounds himself with. These are guys we think are ‘naturals’ even though the learning process and the trial, error, reward mechanisms of it for him are just an internalized part of his personality. However, making this emotional impression can be learned, expressed ‘naturally’ and it can be internalized.

When we look at the dual nature of Hypergamy we tend to focus primarily on the Alpha Fucks side of women’s sexual strategy. For obvious reasons, it’s the part guys tend to have the most interest in, and since seduction is the key to STRs and LTRs, it’s also the part guys need to develop most. It’s tough for most Blue Pill men to behave counter to what their conditioning has taught them. Just like my friend’s driving here, most guys believe that comfort, trust, rapport, friendship, appeasement, and generally self-sacrificing are what’s at the heart of a good relationship. All of course based on the mystical “open communication” trope.

Selfish vs Self-Interest

Vox Day had an interesting back and forth with Kitten Holiday about this dynamic this weekend:

https://twitter.com/voxday/status/762307577560563712

For men who’ve been conditioned to believe that the key to success with women is to play nice and solve women’s problems for them with patient understanding, suggesting selfishness is attractive to women is counterintuitive. However, agreeableness and humility in men have been associated with a negative predictor of sex partners. So is it selfishness that makes a guy attractive or arousing?

I’ve suggested in the past that it is actually men who dare to place themselves at the center of their lives who make the most significant emotional impact upon women. This emotional impression is a byproduct of men who make themselves their first priority and when this prioritization becomes an internalized second nature to a man we say that he’s made himself his Mental Point of Origin.

I’m clarifying this here because it’s easy to conflate ‘enlightened self-interest’ with “selfishness”. A common criticism among the MGTOW set is that a man investing himself into anything with the express purpose of attracting women is vanity or wasted effort. However, it’s defining the point where this personal investment in oneself crosses over into having the effect of being an attractive trait to women that needs some more clarification. I covered this in Crisis of Motive, and unfortunately, it’s a line that’s subjective to the man who’s invested himself in virtually anything that uniquely benefits him and is attractive/arousing for women.

So we have two countermanding imperatives here. Men are conditioned, personally and publicly, to believe that niceness, comfort, and trust are the keys to success with women (whom we are told will have an affinity and appreciation for it). All of these Blue Pill qualities are pro-social attributes, yet in practice, in the real world, we observe men with anti-social, ‘selfish’ interest are rewarded with women’s attention. Self-interested men make a more significant emotional impression.

When we contrast this with the two aspects of women’s sexual strategy we see that the Blue Pill (pro-social) traits align with the Beta Bucks side of Hypergamy, while the ‘selfish’ (anti-social) aspects align with the arousing Alpha Fucks desires of women. For the Blue Pill invested man, it’s baffling to see how ‘selfish’ men are rewarded with intimacy, genuine desire, and sex. What they lack is a complete understanding of women’s dual sexual natures.

“So I gotta be an asshole to get women to notice me? Chicks really dig jerks?”

I’ve been reading this response from newly unplugged nice guys for as long as I’ve been writing. It’s the binary response I’ve come to expect from guys still on the fence with regard to Red Pill awareness, but it goes back to the negative associations they have with making themselves their own mental point of origin. It’s ‘selfishness’ not self-interest and this is exactly the opposite of what they’ve been taught will resolve problems for them.

This then comes back to my first point about women’s need for security. I’ve been married for over 20 years now, and for as good a marriage as I have, I still have my doubts that Mrs. T trusts me implicitly with her life.

It’s ironic because I actually saved her life when we were first married. There was a very swift moving river we used to walk our dogs along when we lived in Tahoe. It was spring and the river was high from snowmelt runoff, and it was cold – as in take your breath away before you’re paralyzed cold. One of our dogs had spied a few ducks on the opposite side of the river and bolted into it to go after them. About half way across he realizes it was a stupid idea and turns back. He couldn’t make it and the river swept him downstream. We both ran down the river after him to a point where he’d pass and Mrs. T jumped in to catch him. She goes numb in seconds, but she caught the dog by the collar. I know I’m going to have to go in to get them now so I prep in my head what to do. I get in now and grab the dog and bodily throw him up on the steep bank. Then I do the same with Mrs. T right before the water is so cold I can barely move. I managed to grab a large tree root in the bank I’d seen earlier to haul myself out.

In spite of that very memorable event, I’m not sure I have my wife’s implicit trust in this respect. I know that sounds bad, but even after all of that, there was no acknowledged appreciation for it. I was just doing what a man is expected to do. In many other aspects, I have my wife’s trust, but I wonder if the want for an emotional impression isn’t buffered by a need for security.

In my friend’s case, this lack of trust is manifested in his wife’s demeanor and interactions with him. The more Beta the man a woman’s paired herself with the more evident her need for security becomes a part of their relationship. Remember that security comes in many different forms. It’s entirely possible for a dutiful Beta to be a great provider, but still not be trusted with his decision making or his capacity to protect his woman from harm.

Women today are already raised to never put their trust in men as it is. Men are at best lovable buffoons, at worst untrustworthy incorrigible players. Popular culture directs women to only rely on themselves, to only trust in their own, implicitly correct decisions and directions – and then absolve them of any negative consequence of those decisions. Thus, we have several generations of women who claim the authority role in their LTRs and relegate their men to only marginally trusted companions.

All of that said, I would suggest that men opt to not concern themselves with so-called “trust issues” with women. Women’s feral nature is founded in Hypergamy and part of that nature will always be to doubt the quality of the man she’s paired herself with. It may seem ‘selfish’, but placing yourself as your first priority will be far more appreciated and accepted than a man attempting to endlessly earn the trust from a woman that can only be temporal at best. Your lack of concern over her status of trusting you will have much more impact than trying to appease her for it.

Beta men are endlessly told that a woman’s trust and rapport, her comfort level with a guy, is essential to her being intimate or sexual, or having a good relationship. Those are the guys who feel the sting the most when they see a woman at her feral best fuck the hot guy she met the same night who made a significant emotional impression on her. The guy who invested his interests in himself and she happened to be along for his ride.

Trust is just a convenient term used by women to vet for Beta men. ‘Trust’ only amounts to a list of prerequisites and rules for a Beta who believes it’s his duty to fulfill them, which are never an afterthought for women with more Alpha men.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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kfg: “I’ll use Patrese to indirectly answer that question. The late Carroll Smith, an auto racing engineer and mentor to young drivers, said there was one thing that all successful, professional race drivers had in common.
They would sell their own mother for a ride.”

Wow, they’d sell their own mothers for a ride.
Good thing they don’t’ have to join any organizations to drive professionally or their alpha cred would be forever rescinded. /sarc

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@newlyaloof “EXACTLY, why you should write a book instead of constantly repeating what you say in comments scattered among dozens of posts.” The books are already out there for anyone to read. If guys would just read them I wouldn’t have to post at all lol but guys are lazy and different Red Pill communities shame men for looking at the old writing while simultaneously making shit up to discredit its value while boosting their own writing to keep men reading their shit instead of looking at the old texts. MRAs, TRP, Manosphere, MGTOW, it’s all bits and pieces of… Read more »

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Lol, I’m not the one making distinctions. SJF Maxim #2: Game concepts and tactics are fungible (mutually interchangeable) across all relationship platforms. Can’t tell you how many times I said that here in 2015. “This is why I’m giving SJF shit. Everyone wants to separate all this shit and make it overly complicated so they can all stamp their personal brand/name all over it when all of this Married Red Pill Game and Relationship Game and LTR Game and bla bla it’s all the same thing. “ The only thing I’m trying to sell is masculine self improvement, knowing who… Read more »

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Half the guys here are good examples of why the artificial division fucks men over. Rocket came in firing both guns about what a badass he was, having discovered hooker game and thinking he’s beat the system. But what happened? The exact same shit that PUA would’ve told him would happen if he hadn’t bought into the special super sekret hooker game he’s discovered or been taught and fuck all you sucker PUAs. Culum and Scribblerg were running their sugardaddy mentor game feeling like they’re on the right track without even realizing they were missing the mark, not because they… Read more »

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@ YaReally, Thank you for all of that, as it makes MUCH more sense to me now as I was getting way too hung up on conflicting terminologies. When I first took the RP I was TRIAGED (thanks SJF for that lost boy snarky comment) into the MGTOW dungeon of darkness and all I knew about PUA was that they were “dancing monkey pussy beggars” because that’s what I had been told. I honestly knew nothing about any of this stuff – lol. It’s easier for me to get all of this when you put it the way you did,… Read more »

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@Colbert “Thank you for all of that, as it makes MUCH more sense to me now as I was getting way too hung up on conflicting terminologies.” That’s exactly what my panties are in a twist over. This stuff is not as complicated as it seems when everyone is making up their own special snowflake artificial divisions and differences. That shit is just an ego stroke to try to guru-ize themselves and it fucks with guys who are new to the red pill community, in or out of a relationship, who are trying to understand what the differences between “red… Read more »

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@YaReally, “so here we are with me having to point out the basics that were in MM, Tyler’s early work, Blackdragon’s early stuff, etc etc over and over. Like how many guys here have ACTUALLY read Mystery Method through and through? Or watched the entire old MM seminar? Or read the Tyler Digest from start to end? Or dug out Tyler’s old mASF archive? Or read pretty much everything Blackdragon’s written? Anyone read Manhood101 through and through?” Okay, how about providing a link to all of these on the site Lumpy runs for you? I don’t want to seem like… Read more »

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Of course Rollo got it all right. But the mechanism is even more simple I believe: As we know women ping off our emotions to know how they should feel. So if you wonder if she trusts you or if she feels secure, she won’t. But if you don’t care and just enjoy yourself she will trust you.

Now if I just could find a women screaming like Mrs. Patrese. I fell in love when I saw it the first time.

newlyaloof
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@yareally, P.S. I’m just the kind of guy that like to compile info and try to make sense out of all this in one resource (as you can tell by this page that I created, and will now have to update to be more relevant https://newlyaloof.wordpress.com/2013/05/07/the-game-bloggers-challenge-tell-me-what-game-is-and-how-it-works/ ) You once wrote: “She WANTS TO FEEL BAD EMOTIONS AS WELL AS GOOD EMOTIONS. That’s why we pay money for horror movies, that’s why girls watch soap operas and read Twilight and shit. BAD EMOTIONS ARE GOOD EMOTIONS TO HER BECAUSE *******ANYTHING******* THAT ISN’T A DULL FLATLINE OF EMOTION MAKES HER FEEL *****ALIVE*****.… Read more »

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@ YaReally,

That was a great scene from “Good Will Hunting” BTW (loved that scene) – lol

walawala
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@YaReally Thanks…on the Soft-Next…yup running that now and it works. The one I’m running it on misbehaves and I just fall off the map. No reaction to her “heyyyyyyy!!!” texts.

Actually, I’m too busy to care and making things happen, getting projects started so it’s kind of a moot point.

I don’t think I could be where I am without the help you and others gave.

But also it takes tremendous discipline to get over the people-pleasing ways.

kfg
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“A stable, secure marriage is a good thing to a dutiful Beta . . .”

When you were 12 years old did you imagine your life like this:

comment image

or like this:

http://images.motorcycle-usa.com/PhotoGallerys/Kevin-Strijbos-world-motocross-Sevlievo-1.jpg

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“The best car engineer in the world is rarely ever the best driver in the world.”

That’s what set Rudi Uhlenhaut (designer of the Mercedes GP cars from the 30s through 50s, as well as the Gull Wing sports car) apart.

He realized that to fully understand his cars as an engineer he needed practical experience in the field with them; and at times ran test laps faster than Fangio.

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@ya @rollo When I quit my 28 year LTR I searched far and wide for an explanation on “what the hell happened to me” and “how do I communicate with women on a sexual level”. The PUA experience and practice opened my eyes and Rollos RP articles and theory opened up my mind. I personally think they are indeed one and the same (albeit with a couple of other items as mentioned by yareally earlier on) – two sides of the same coin. The MM book was an interesting read when I bought it about a year ago and it… Read more »

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Damn, scooped by rollo

Softek
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@ kfg

re: “The best car engineer in the world is rarely ever the best driver in the world.”

Leo Fender hardly knew how to play guitar at all. He hired very good players and relied on feedback from them to improve his designs.

Truth in both cases. But there is a line at some point as no one can specialize in everything.

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@Rollo “Playing Devil’s advocate here YaReally, but even you have detailed how PUAs tailor (calibrate) their Game style to better suit their personalities and strengths have you not?” lol this doesn’t make any sense. It’s not “this guy gets better results when he fails all their shit-tests and supplicates to them and walks around sad and depressed and cries on their shoulder about what a loser he is and how his life sucks”. It’s “passing a shit-test causes attraction, but one guy might pass that shit-test by being aloof/laconic, while another might agree & amplify it.” There’s a VERY big… Read more »

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@ YaReally re: my relationship Honestly, I feel like the age difference is the kingpin here. The real main issue. If she was my age or younger I feel like she would be much less insecure, would be much easier to spin plates, and everything would probably be much more laid back. Seeing the Wall can make women really, really freak out and god only knows how much it amplifies their inherent Hypergamous insecurity. Perhaps at no other time in their life is their Hypergamous insecurity greater than when they’re in their very late 20’s and early to mid 30’s.… Read more »

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@ YaReally tl;dr version: for the first time I’m getting to know what I want. It feels weird. But that’s why I recommend people read your archives and TRM no matter what their situation is. The information sinks in. And like you said about some CEO approaching your wife at an Xmas party: shit like that happens. Actually, one fear I’ve had about having a girlfriend, and part of why I’m so avoidant to it, is because I’m afraid of conflict and dealing with shit like that. Triggers so much anxiety for me and the couple times I’ve been out… Read more »

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@anon: “Wow, they’d sell their own mothers for a ride.
Good thing they don’t’ have to join any organizations to drive professionally . . .”

The mother is being sold to raise the money to buy the ride.

When you are buying something, you are the customer.

Are you arguing principle, or are you defending your choices?

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Gottman’s incredibly dull The Science of Trust (2011, three chapters on game theory, yay, oh wait math game theory, boo) discusses emotional attunement and blue pill utopia. Here’s a review in simple terms: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-older-dad/201303/do-i-trust-you-anymore Science now tells us that trust grows from how each of us treats our partners. In each situation when our needs compete with those of our partner’s, no matter how small or large, we each chose to act in our self-interest or in the interest of our partner. Trust springs from the choice to take care of our partner at our own expense. … Gottman details… Read more »

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“Science now tells us that trust grows from how each of us treats our partners.”

Well I’m glad we’ve finally cleared that up.

YaReally
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@Rollo
Yup you got it. But in what way does that play devil’s advocate to what I’m saying?

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@Rollo “If that’s the case then, couldn’t men be more adept at Game in various other contexts and domains?” If you mean like, Krauser could be really good at daygame because he focuses on it, then yes. But I don’t have an issue with that, because what he’s doing IN daygame is still following the exact same principles that the rest of PUA follows. It’s not a separate system “not for the faint of heart” even though he markets it as such. He’s just taking the things we teach and apply in PUA and emphasizing parts of them while letting… Read more »

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@Rollo Like my issue is when people are saying focus on Married Red Pill Game instead of “that single guy pua game”. No, learn PUA. The shit you learn in PUA is the exact same shit you’re going to be applying in Married Red Pill Game except you’re going to have a more well-rounded skillset that will prepare you for LIFE, instead of a narrow focus band-aid temporary solution and then get blindsided by some other thing you could’ve seen coming if you had been led to the proper resources and studied them beforehand. A guy shouldn’t have to get… Read more »

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@culum @yareally @forge @pua Lol, did the stalker DHV on my boss — always works lol. She was getting into it, as girls always do, and I was laughing “lol, this always works lol. this is why I always bring this up with chicks.” She was talking about her stalkers. She had some pretty serous ones. My favorite was the asian dude that told her point blank he would come into her house and molest her — and then would ask her out lol. Best part, she complained to her parents about him, except they knew his parents. they owned… Read more »

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The problem is PUA as a brand sucks. If a new guy arrives in the manosphere, and doesn’t happen on YaReally explaining integrated theory, he will assume PUA is for pickup only.

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“A guy shouldn’t have to get shot multiple times to learn how to safely handle a gun.” Indeed. Once usually suffices. “we won’t teach him about the safety until he blows a hole in his leg” Keep your booger hook off the bang switch is the essential first lesson, and the last for Glock owners, since they have no safety to prevent the pulling of the trigger and discharging a round. ” . . . talking about their special gun safety program for having a gun in the home . . .” If you keep your gun in a gun… Read more »

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The problem is PUA as a brand sucks. If a new guy arrives in the manosphere, and doesn’t happen on YaReally explaining integrated theory, he will assume PUA is for pickup only. A better way to look at PU and Game is as a language. Like any language there are native born speakers, those that pick up a few phrases here and there, those that do intensive study a a second language and achieve fluency, those that delve deeper and study culture, idioms and dialects… Game is the language of female seduction. Women are fluent in it and therefore are… Read more »

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” . . . he will assume PUA is for pickup only.”

He may even be explicitly told that Red Pill is for pickup only.

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@Redlight Which is the genius of Tyler naming his brand ‘Real Social Dynamics’ and moving into more general self-help principles. It has a way to go, but you can see how just that focus fills large conference rooms, while PUA’s who are more the ‘techniques to bang hot chicks’ only crowd sell a few books and have tiny gatherings/bootcamps. There’s just not many guys who want to do more than dabble in a field that they perceive is only about getting casual sex. Sell it as a general life-improvement thing, though, and it’s gangbusters. But yeah, the PR is terrible… Read more »

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@hank holiday Most girls have experience with “stalkers” because stalking is so easy these days. In the old days a guy would have to go leave his house and sit in her bushes and shit lol Now he can just message her endlessly on social media from the safety of his bedroom. And “being needy” has been equated with “stalking” so even more stuff “feels” like stalking (which automatically makes it stalking…did she txt you “lol” and you thought she was still interested and didn’t realize that “lol” meant go away you creepy loser but she didn’t wanna type that… Read more »

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@Forge the Sky “But yeah, the PR is terrible for these things due to the FI. Which is why we’re so underground even here.” Right, like, the FI already turns men away from resources like Mystery Method that would help solve 90% of their problems and questions about women…Then I gotta sit through the rest of the Red Pill community helping do the same thing? Then on top of it I gotta sit here and watch guys go on about “single guy pua game” being different than “not for the faint of heart married guy red pill game that’s different”?… Read more »

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@yareally okay. I think i can just open on stalker DHV. “hey, i got a quick question for you. I need a woman’s opinion on this. So I was at this coffee shop the other day when this girl. . . ” comfortable with that now. so save time by cutting out job small talk stuff PLUS dhv from just opening on a noncustomer frame (whereas most guys have to ease into this shit, i am comfortable just jumping into it) So: stalker dhv — sex book dhv (will probably take a few time to have the balls to bring… Read more »

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Yareally That’s exactly what my panties are in a twist over. This stuff is not as complicated as it seems when everyone is making up their own special snowflake artificial divisions and differences. That shit is just an ego stroke to try to guru-ize themselves and it fucks with guys who are new to the red pill community, in or out of a relationship, who are trying to understand what the differences between “red pill married man game” and “single guy pua game” is when I call out SJF and ask flat out “okay what are the differences?” and he… Read more »

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@Sentient
“Haven’t you yourself said getting married reduces your game options or makes them more difficult to execute? Is that consistent with “not for the faint of heart”, i.e. harder to accomplish?”

We’ll have to wait for SJF to answer what exactly is “not for the faint of heart” about his Married Red Pill SJF Game and SJF Relationship Game and how it differs from Single Guy PUA Game to know.

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@YaReally: I guess the point that Rollo is trying to make is that, while the underlying principles are the same as they must be (AWALT after all), sometimes learning the application is more relevant.

Ideally we all would have a deep understanding of the theory. But in practice, applied concepts such as “dread” end up more useful for a married man than more fundamental ones such as “preselection”, “social proof”.

That, and I guess a bit of marketing, is why Married RP is relevant.

Naturals don’t even know the theory or the applied concepts and just do it better than most RP-aware men.

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Not for the faint of heart means it is hard and it is scary ( I don’t get scared easily and am not scared with MRP). It has more chance of blowing up in a man’s face. Most certainly more difficult (yes it is self imposed). Of course SJF takes away his own power of Next voluntarily. It doesn’t have to be that way. But that is my choice. Big handicap making it even more daunting. I think most married guys are too lazy, short-sighted or self-serving to actually achieve success in married red pill game. I game all the… Read more »

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@SJF

“Of course SJF takes away his own power of Next voluntarily. It doesn’t have to be that way. But that is my choice. Big handicap making it even more daunting.”

Im dying…….you’re in third person now

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@ IAS ” Ideally we all would have a deep understanding of the theory. But in practice, applied concepts such as “dread” end up more useful for a married man than more fundamental ones such as “preselection”, “social proof”. That, and I guess a bit of marketing, is why Married RP is relevant.” During the discussion, I was thinking this also. If one had to try to convince a married man that RP/Game/Pua would make his life better all around, yet the married guy reacted much like YaReally says by poo-pooing all of this knowledge as stuff for single guys… Read more »

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@sentient

“a better way …”

You missed the boat on addressing the brand and how to reach the new guy on the manosphere, try again

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@sentient “a better way …” You missed the boat on addressing the brand and how to reach the new guy on the manosphere, try again Really? I think comparison to a language is a far more accessible mental model than artistry … for any one. Especially when the biggest problem guys have is actually talking to girls… and explains what naturals are doing far better without social shaming that you didn’t learn the language… and also suggests that game, as a technique is a means to an end, not an end. Learning German is not an end state, it is… Read more »

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I should add though, in clarifying, Game as the language of female seduction is both verbal and non verbal…

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Yareally

Ok then… but these things are the same no?

Yareally “the song is exactly the same and learning the skills from PUA translate to all those other areas BECAUSE it’s the same song.”

SJF “Game concepts and tactics are fungible (mutually interchangeable) across all relationship platforms. ”

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On Game being the verbal and non verbal language of female seduction… At the hipster coffee place this morning. Take a seat at the counter, next to me is an old dude with a giant laptop and next to him by the barrista is a young girl all scrunched up and facing the barrista dude, so I don’t get much of a look at her at first. I hear them talking and she is just going on, telling the guy she has moved hear recently, and he is asking oh what do you do and she said she was in… Read more »

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YaReally: PUA is basically what Bruce Lee did, dismissing all the traditional fluff and fancy poses and shit and just getting down to the core of “what holds up in a fight Bruce was all about “learn from everyone, keep what works, discard what doesn’t”. He didn’t invent that. Neither did Sun Tzu or Myamoto Musashi or Jeff Cooper, for that matter. Masters of an art can be a bit curmudgeonly about that art, to be sure, but there is humility as well in a true master. I am certain that RSD techniques with slight modifications work in LTR’s of… Read more »

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@ Sentient… Thought this over, the car analogy works so far in explaining the concepts. I think a better way is that Red Pill is like having a Super Power…Game is what that specific power is: x-ray vision, able to leap tall buildings, able to swing from building to building shooting stuff from your wrists…walking around in blue tights or driving around in a Black Beauty with an Asian wingman. That’s what defines game from PUA to PUA. Being the spastic funny guy may work for one but isn’t congruent with another. But the internalized concepts are what’s important. But… Read more »

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@ YaReally There’s an old story about a house that’s burning down. The kids don’t realize the house is on fire and won’t come out of their rooms. The dad, in a panic over failing to get their attention, comes up with a lie. He yells up to them saying they have these brand new toys on sale at the store and that they need to get down here right now because they only have 2 left, and they need to leave immediately before someone else gets them. THEN the kids come sprinting out of the house to safety. Had… Read more »

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lh Of course Rollo got it all right. But the mechanism is even more simple I believe: As we know women ping off our emotions to know how they should feel. So if you wonder if she trusts you or if she feels secure, she won’t. But if you don’t care and just enjoy yourself she will trust you. “She feels what you feel” – Tyler on multiple RSD vids. I’m sure that this was said back on the old alt.seduction.fast (ASD) newsgroup in the 90’s. It’s visible in Billy Shakespear’s Taming of the Shrew for those who have the… Read more »

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Rollo

I 100% agree with YaReally in that PUA is owed a debt for making intersexual dynamism accessible to anyone and everyone.

Except for White Knights who can’t accept reality, who really do believe that some Special Snowflakes are different. The churches are stuffed full of men like that, as we see at Dalrock’s on a rather regular basis.

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Gottman’s incredibly dull The Science of Trust (2011, Got that book because of his earlier research dating back to the 1970’s (not a typo). Gottman in the 1990’s was able to predict pretty accurately which marriages would detonate / degrade to misery just by watching for a few indicators. One big one: contempt by wife of husband. Then he got married. The quality of his work declined. The last chapter of Trust is pure Female Imperative, and I frankly doubt he even wrote it, it’s so incoherent / rambling / rabbit-trailed. It’s extremely Blue Pill. Nowadays “contempt” is a marriage… Read more »

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” . . . or Jeff Cooper, for that matter.” Cooper was always a bit bemused over becoming the Godfather of combat pistol technique, since he didn’t consider himself all that good with a pistol. He was a rifleman. The major breakthrough was the work of Los Angeles County Deputy Sheriff Jack Weaver, whom the Weaver stance is named after. Cooper’s chief contribution was helping develop the live scenario competition style that helped technique develop, as well as formulating the rules of firearm safety that kept that many adrenaline pumped men shooting safely. He might also be the reason the… Read more »

redlight
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@sentient

“But let’s see what you come up with Redlight?”

Emily coined the term “Men Lead Women Follow” so you could use that, or simplify to Lead Follow Game or Lead Follow Always. One could call it the Platinum Pill based on the suggestions of Wild Man. To get lots of hits you can call it the National Fucking League.

Blaximus
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SJF
Not for the faint of heart means it is hard and it is scary ( I don’t get scared easily and am not scared with MRP). It has more chance of blowing up in a man’s face. Most certainly more difficult (yes it is self imposed).

Dude, your solipsism is showing again.

You face nothing like what the average college man endures in the “Yes Means Yes Until It Doesn’t” era, the average cube-farm employee risks, etc.

Proud of your humilty? Looks that way.

SJF
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Disgruntled Earthling: “My only wish to to see a couple of you guys stop dissing each other and kiss and make up, or at least retreat to your separate corners. It’s unbecoming for both of you – you both are classy guys and bring great things to the table. Can’t we all just get along? “I’d be more than happy to not have to restate my positions for a thousandth time lol” Yes we can all get along. And I’d be more than happy to have someone actually have read my positions in the past 20 months and not mis-understand… Read more »

SJF
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Sorry, failed to close the Ian Ironwood block quote after:

“Once they are convinced to stop working against their own masculine interests, realize their own value in society, and give them the tools to recognize that, then we’re going to see a lot more Red Pills going down the hatch. And that’s a good thing for everyone.

The subsequent paragraphs are my thoughts.

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SJF The following is a cut and paste regarding my desire to just get along. I have had trouble in giving a direct link to Ian Ironwood’s articles in the past in WordPress. I don’t know if it is because the end of the URL concludes with an HTML appendage. So hence the cut and paste. It is at his Red Pill Room blog under the title below. Perhaps instead of reposting a tl;dr scroll-wheel-a-rama of someone else’s words, you could instead consider just asking for help in posting the URL next time? Doctors. Some of the most ignorant know-it-alls… Read more »

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“He might also be the reason the 1911 reached cult status. He had little use for any other sidearm and would tell anyone who would listen, and many who wouldn’t.” I used to shoot firearms in a static competition. We would meet up at a firearms range once a week and compete, ten men at a time–forty in the league–in a course of fire at two silhouette targets with 50 rounds. We could choose any caliber firearm above 9mm or 38 special. Over a year and a half I got pretty good. What was easy was .38 special wadcutters with… Read more »

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“Perhaps instead of reposting a tl;dr scroll-wheel-a-rama of someone else’s words, you could instead consider just asking for help in posting the URL next time?”

OK. Help.

Sorry for your attention span.

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SJF, not pristine
OK. Help.

There’s a word missing…but I don’t expect you to get that.

Anyway, we’ll see what my attempt to post the link looks like when Rollo releases it.

Sorry for your attention span.

Dude, some of us read the article when he first posted it back in 2012…

hank holiday
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@culum @yareally @forge @pua Did a lot more DHV. Didn’t get to push past that, but did get a bit more experience in doing that in other areas. Opened girl at magazine stand. She was reading a book. Asked her if it was any good, then sat next to her. She had blocked her self off from others — was too close to the edge to sit on her right side, and she had magazines next to her on the other side … so that I had to kind of awkwardly sit between two benches — but I sat down… Read more »

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oh, and indian girl and I were right out in the open too, lots of people around. so both shy girl in bookstore and indian girl were good practice to getting used to running game with people close by.

SJF
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“Anyway, we’ll see what my attempt to post the link looks like when Rollo releases it.”

Lol.

I never had one released (when linking Ian Ironwood) from moderation before.

Hence the cut and paste and lack of ignorance.

Anymore in-group malice you got?

Asshole?

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black 7.5/8 was also a worker — asked her about clothes but she didn’t walk off to show me in person the items. need to work on that, getting girls to actually go away from others so I can isolate and escalate.

stuffinbox
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@Ya Really @Sjf Okay so tell us what works in marriage that doesn’t work in LTRs, fuckbuddies, etc Tell us exactly what rules apply to marriages that don’t also apply to normal LTRs. Let’s hear it, Gandalf. Tell us all about these “not for the faint of heart” mystical voodoo things you see that us mere mortals not running “SJF RELATIONSHIP GAME(TM)” are unaware of. I will give this a shot with my 8th grade education.I may be a natural,because the girls and women have been pulling me since 1975,but even a natural hits flat spots and experiences scarcity mentality.… Read more »

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@Rollo From your story about the friend and his wife, There’s also another facet to this type of behavior. If we are to agree that male and female nature are complementary then we can see how female behavior is developed in an environment that is fairly safe, since security and provisioning is provided by men. Their environment is not only safe, but relatively static, compared to the environment that men are used to. Let’s take for example the daily life of the hunter gatherers. Men were out hunting for food, escaping from wild animals, as well as dealing with other… Read more »

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rugby11
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Rollo “A in PUA is for – art. Art requires interpretation, improvisation, correction, expression, experimentation, etc. all within the context of his subject and what he hopes to achieve and results in an individual style of the artist, yes?” In Philadelphia I’ve notice that or myself my art is validation. Some child in me who aches at the crunching heart of the fundamental truths of the red pill. I seen women all day that are gorgeous. I have noticed that a part of my inner game is getting other men help. Getting laid getting happy getting married. It’s all been… Read more »

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@ETA: What I have been getting at in some of my earlier comments is a way in which men and women are the same. Women need to get their emotional spikes, excitement. If they don’t get them they become bored, then bat shit crazy when life just goes flat line. But so do men. That guy sitting alone looking out of his garage. His full dress touring bike put away at the back of the garage behind him. What does he see in his mind’s eye as he gazes out of the garage? He sees himself jumping a motocross bike.… Read more »

Blaximus
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Well. This looks like as good of a spot as any for me to jump in with some car talk that’s probably not all that relevant to the OP, but I’ll give it a whorl anyway. I am a dyed in the wool car guy. Come from a long and distinguished line of car builder/racer types. Every woman I have ever dated ( or married for that matter ) has said that I like cars more than women. I never argued the point with them. In my life cars and women pretty much equal one another in many respects. I… Read more »

stuffinbox
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@Blax

Just a little envious,of the hemi cuda.

redlight
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Completely off topic. I drive extremely fast with my run-of-the-mill cars but when I was young my friend had a very enhanced car. He had trouble getting any takers so we would pull up beside a fast car, and, just before the light turned green, I, riding shotgun, would blast them with a water pipes stol. This produced some interesting chases. With another friend of mine, I’m light timing for him and after five minutes of high speed we are boxed in by four cop cars, with the cops having shotguns. It turns out they were after bank robbers and… Read more »

redlight
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auto fucking corrupt

* blast them with a water pistol

kfg
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“Uncle Earl always told me that you can’t outrun a police radio in the daytime.” Blazin’ right through Knoxville, out on Kingston Pike, then right outside of Bearden where they made the fatal strike. He left the road at ninety, that’s all there is to say, the devil got the moonshine and the Mountain boy that day. I come from a different school, my first real car was a Triumph GT6. You could put the thing in the trunk of a ‘Cuda. Took my mother to the grocery store in it one day. Parked at the curb, she opened the… Read more »

kfg
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@Redlight: “auto fucking corrupt”

Well, I can stop trying to imagine short take off and landing water pipes then.

Blaximus
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@stuff

Lol. Don’t envy the Cuda. It was originally a rust bucket so bad that when you opened the trunk, you looked right at the ground. It took close to a decade of work and sweat to get it to be safe and strong. Back then repro metal wasn’t available so I bought a ” parts car ” and cut and welded forever. The only straight and rust free panel was the hood.

But it’s a factory, numbers matching hemi.

That was the car that gave me mastery over metal, along with burns and a few stitches.

stuffinbox
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@KFG “I looked at her, thought for a moment, and said, “After a house. That’s your security. Then we’ll come back for this.” And the jiggling stopped. Energy gone. I was thinking of giving her what she needed before I took what I wanted. What I didn’t realize was that what she wanted was.” After the kids moved out i started looking at bikes again,and found a good one,rationalizing gas at 4bucks a gallon.She was so happy to give me a ride to get it.I thought maybe i earned it,in her eyes.Maybe she just wanted me to be happy? Or… Read more »

stuffinbox
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@Blax

“It was originally a rust bucket so bad ”

Still envious,aaaaaaand also damn proud to make your acquaintance.
Ten vehicles running,never bought a new one and never paid a mechanic or a body man,except to fix a customers car.Spartain frugal,no rods,just oldies.41gmc,42 chevy,48 binder,51ford,all trucks.

Blaximus
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@ kfg

Had a 70 TR6. Buttermilk yellow convertible. A pilot left it at my dad’s shop in 72 and never came back for it. I kept it charged and started for 7 years and took possession in lieu of a 7 grand storage bill in 79.

A true blast to drive. Crazy electrical issues.

thedeclineandfall
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@Anonymous Reader, Great point. That is solipsism. If you objectively look at the conditions young men face today, they are far harsher than the men of my generation faced. The average young college man whose end goal is ‘career, love, and marriage’ is nowadays on a ‘Salmon Run’. Their Blue-pill magnoception guides them to reach the same ‘martial’ place as their grandfathers. A small percentage survive the swim upstream avoiding deadly predators for the privilege of joylessly joining several other males who all spray their sperm over her eggs. After fighting off the other males and the spawning of offspring… Read more »

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“Crazy electrical issues.”

Mall security came looking for me once, because the horn on the GT6 just went off full on in the parking lot. The windshield wipers worked, as long as it wasn’t raining. The headlights, hit and miss. Mostly miss.

Lucas – Prince of Darkness.

It took me six months but I tracked it down to a bad ground.

Q: Why do the English drink warm beer?
A: Lucas makes refrigerators too.

stuffinbox
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“It took me six months but I tracked it down to a bad ground.”

Six months to find it 15minutes to fix try billing for that repair.

Forge the Sky
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“Because of what is different about them. Man the hunter gets his excitement from manipulating the environment. Woman the camper gets her excitement from manipulating people. Man, the manipulator of the environment, needs the people around him to be a constant. Loyalty. Honor. Woman the camper needs the environment around her to be a constant. Security. Consensus. Men and women are complimentary, but they are not complementary like two pieces of a puzzle. They are complimentary like opposing, balanced forces.” YES. Fuckin hell. Like hitting a scratch no-one else can itch. Is it his what it’s like when a dude… Read more »

Oleaginous Outrager
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“If you can’t walk the minute you need to, you are no longer a free man. ”

So the exact same principle underlying every single negotiation in life (and all of history, really).

SFC Ton
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I’m not the man with the words for it but applying Game etc to all aspects of life will do nothing but improve a man’s condition I game situations all day long. Once you have an understanding of how people work, what motivates them etc etc all sorts of possibilities open up The red pill etc helped me more in business and professional settings then it has with women. Women are relatively easy marks, getting a major slaughter house to go with you as their primary shipper is a lot tougher but all the emotional/ psychological insights I picked up… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
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@SJF
“Ian Ironwood represents exactly my feelings on this issue….”

Yeah that was a well-written piece. I can get along with that.
We’re all basically saying the same thing but in an calibrated manner.

redlight
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here is pseudo “PUA” on the r/TheRedPill I’m not going to link it as it is very long and expands here if linked Thread is “Embrace rejection. They’re just women”, in part: … Your job is to control your encounters with women. To make your intentions clear from the start. To flirt. To escalate. Touch. Keep things moving forward at a steady, comfortable pace until you get a hard no. Don’t sit around paralyzed by the fear of rejection and embarrassment, chatting with some girl like you’re one of her girlfriends. Like you just want to be her friend or… Read more »

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The Triumph of youth: 1975 Spitfire 1500. Great fun.

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/-wwAAOxymnFSGVq0/s-l500.jpg

redlight
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That last one has over 400 upvotes and so does this one, titled “Be Honest With Yourself, You’re Being A Pussy: You Don’t Want To Put In The Hard Work”. In part, with typos left in: If you’re coming here to ask some other man how you should be acting, what you should be saying, what decisions you should be making, etc. Then you are in the wrong sub, the PUA community is where you should be. And there is nothing wrong with that. But this sub isn’t meant for that type of stuff. It’s showing men how to live… Read more »

Junior
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Amber Heard throws tantrum when pushed to actually face a deposition regarding her DV accusations against Depp. But can’t the world see from her emotional outburst at the prospect of facing her ATTACKER (tantrum) that her (false) DV claims should just be ACCEPTED as TRUE!? How DARE anyone question the victim!? lol

http://www.msn.com/en-au/entertainment/celebrity/amber-heard-cried-and-yelled-as-she-refused-to-testify-against-johnny-depp/ar-BBvs97T?li=AAsEOE&ocid=spartanntp

Junior
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@redlight While I agree with the “you need to get your elbows in the mud” theme in those bits, they seem to omit the well-established fact that you CAN improve your consistency of success by changing what you said & how you said it, & that you NEED to be reflecting on your interactions against the M3 model to make sustained progress in interacting with women you want to fuck, at the very least figuring out where within that model you could have taken more efficient action. But as YaReally has shown, without him having continually espoused the value of… Read more »

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@hamster_wrestler says,”I would say that a woman does not subconsciously trust a man to save her because a woman is not wired to save others before herself. Men are, but women are not.” I’ll agree with that. “Therefore when any woman is put in a situation where she must risk her own life to save another, taking that sort of risk inherently runs against her programming. How many stories do you hear where a mother is killed trying to save her child? It’s almost always the husband/father who perishes while the wife and daughters look on.” And how many stories… Read more »

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Wala Love your story and watching your success… I do disagree with some of your last post though… The point of game is that it gives men the super power to reject, next and pass on girls and be the chooser. Actually this may be a benefit of game, but game knowledge and practice is not required to access this mindset. Anyone, anyone at all can choose,/i> today to adopt an “I am the Prize” mindset. Like flipping a light switch. A lot of guys think the need to work up to it, but they don’t. And if you do… Read more »

newlyaloof
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@toocute, but women will jump in freezing water to save pets because pets give them endless free feelz and never complain. Pets are like betas without voice boxes to fuck it up.

IAS
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I’d say women are wired to risk their lives to save children at the very least, but generally not to save other adults.

SJB
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@Sentient: Game as language is brilliant. It covers self-talk (Fuck.That.Shit), other-talk (rhetoric or dialectic), and subcomms.

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