The War Brides of Europe

(h/t to greyghost for today’s video)

Comment from Kaminsky on Dalrock’s thread:

What I find with that video of the Danish feminist. If there were such a thing as a Master’s Degree in the manosphere, you could show the candidate that video and have him break down all the elements of the female mind displayed. Point by point;

  • Let’s you and him fight
  • Shit-testing
  • Extraordinary lack of accountability
  • Collectivism to the depths of her soul
  • A form of AF/BB…In that men have to be both ends of behavior to meet females’ changing needs. Meek and placid during the forty years of feminist play-acting fun-time, now all of a sudden a different kind of man is needed.
  • Victim/victim convenient duality. Victorious feminists imposed their will and opened borders, now they’re victims and it’s up to men to clean it all up.
  • Equalist/androgynous when it suits whatever need, strong gender roles when it suits whatever need.

So amazing.

“Intractable solipsism” belongs in that list as well.

I apologize in advance if this post comes off as overly dramatic or kicking a hornets’ nest. It’s not my intent to wax poetic, but it will serve a purpose.

I was asked about my take on the current ‘migrant crisis’ in Europe by several Red Pill friends (both online and in person I should add), and how I thought it played into what I’ve written in the past about the War Brides dynamic. As my readers know I never delve into issues of politics, race or religion on this blog unless those issues are directly related to intersexual social and personal dynamics.

So it was with this in mind that I considered connecting the dots between Hypergamy and the War Brides dynamic and what I believe we’re beginning to see now in Europe. However, before I get too deep I thought I’d pick Ms. Thranholm’s interview apart first.

A Schism in the Feminine Imperative

I’ll agree with Kaminsky on his take for the most part; the degree of default entitlement women feel they have to men’s physical protection is glaringly evident, especially coming from ardent feminists, but the side-glance vitriol for European men wearing skirts in protest to the rash of ‘migrants’ raping/harassing European women only highlights feminist duplicity.

Is this rash as widespread as these women are making it? Hard for me to say, but not a day’s gone by since this migration that several ‘incidents’ of these migrant’s sexual assault (assault that would land the average European male in jail or make an American man a sex offender overnight) has been in my Twitter feed. I’ll leave that interpretation up to my readers, however what’s glaringly evident is the duplicity in the reaction strong independent® feminists are having to these assaults.

In the video Thranholm at last drops the feminist boilerplate and makes the concession all feminists (and Red Pill deniers) are loathe to hear – our society has become feminized. I’ve been making this point since the days of my writing on SoSuave; western society has become founded on a feminine social primacy that prioritizes women’s imperatives (Hypergamy) above all other considerations (lead photo NSFW). The fabric of western society from our religions, to our work cultures, to our personal relations, to our educational institutions, to the foundations of our parenting, have been progressively and systematically feminized over the course of 60+ short years.

To have a woman like Thranholm voice this from a visceral, fear based necessity is an indictment of how unignorable this feminization as become. In a similar fashion to how Open Hypergamy and soon Open Cuckoldry are becoming too socially evident to ignore, so too is the fact that an increasing majority of western(ized) men believe that touchy-feely feminized solutions to conflict are their first best alternative to violent, physical, in-your-face conflict resolution.

“This militant feminism that has been going on for decades, now we see the consequences that many men here are brought up to be like women, and to think like women, and be soft-minded.”

Iben explains in no uncertain terms that a lack of conventional, complementary masculine strength is so lacking in Europe that even feminist women are beginning to feel uneasy in the uncertainty that their safety could be insured by average European men. Underneath all of the posturing of strength, feminism still needs “muscle” for its physical defense. When feminism looks to its loyal White Knights for that muscle it finds them dressed in mini-skirts and high heels.

Without missing a beat, scowling feminist interviewer, Anissa Naouai, presents the complete obliviousness of the gravity of the situation women are facing…

“But that is what Europe is about, that is part of the European qualities that the European Union promotes.

[…] “These refugees are coming to Europe, shouldn’t they adapt to that?”

This is a glaring example of the degree of cognitive dissonance that has been cultivated in our feminine-primary social order. The idea that men who wouldn’t recognize that feminine social primacy exist, much less who would entirely ignore it, is so alien a thought that it never enters Anissa’s mind.

An Appeal to Honor

Iben continues and answers Anissa’s question without really realizing it.

“Now we see that these post modern values are just a construction.”

I thought this was interesting when we consider how long we’ve been told the opposite – that the popular concepts of conventional, evolved gender roles are the social construction. However once these ‘post modern values’ are slammed into the harsh conditions of a reality that diametrically contradicts it, then, then it becomes a question of “where have all the cowboys gone?” Now the truth is revealed that it is in fact this post modern, feminized interpretation of gender that is the social construct – and one with potentially disastrous consequences.

“…and now we see that we don’t have any male that can stand up, that can fight, who can fight back those male aggressions that we are feeling. So the vacuum that feminism has created means that women are the victims of those male aggressions”

And now we come to the standard appeal to the Male Catch 22 I described in The Honor System many years ago:

Man Up or Shut Up – The Male Catch 22

One of the primary way’s Honor is used against men is in the feminized perpetuation of traditionally masculine expectations when it’s convenient, while simultaneously expecting egalitarian gender parity when it’s convenient.

For the past 60 years feminization has built in the perfect Catch 22 social convention for anything masculine; The expectation to assume the responsibilities of being a man (Man Up) while at the same time denigrating asserting masculinity as a positive (Shut Up). What ever aspect of maleness that serves the feminine purpose is a man’s masculine responsibility, yet any aspect that disagrees with feminine primacy is labeled Patriarchy and Misogyny.

Perhaps we haven’t reached it quite yet, but we are approaching a social tipping point where the physical necessity of conventional masculinity will outweigh the liability to women in ceding the power that feminine social primacy represents. The need for ‘Man Up’ will outweigh the need for ‘Shut Up‘.

This need for women’s defense predictably gets couched in men’s Burden of Performance, and now that shit’s gotten real we see this dynamic laid bare in women’s shaming of men for not putting themselves bodily between them and an attacker. This is where Iben’s premise, and the sham of the Feminine Imperative’s social engineering, breaks down. And ironically the very idea of a new “male revolution” or supporting conventional masculinity on a social scale is even more appalling to Anissa than the reality of rising potential sexual assaults on women:

“It means that men need to take responsibility to go back to the old male virtues, to defend the women, the children and the culture. Because now this post modern project is dead, it doesn’t work…”

Iben goes on for a bit repeating the same men need to take responsibility for defending women trope in various ways and tries to explain to Anissa in as black and white a way that reality necessitates this. However the real disconnect, the most poignant illustration of feminisms denial of reality comes from Anissa after all of this:

“But the mass rapes shouldn’t be happening in the first place.”

“I’m sorry, uh, what?”

“The mass rape, the violence shouldn’t be happening in the first place. These are guests essentially who Europe has welcomed.

[…] should (women) have to protect themselves against mass rape on their streets at home?”

The utter cognitive dissonance of Anissa with her inability to grasp that these male ‘guests’ (who should be beholden to the Male Catch 22 by default) wouldn’t honor the dictates of feminine primacy is staggering. So much so it even fazes Iben for a moment. However, this disconnect is a textbook example of the sociological and psychological schism that is (or will soon) taking place for European women given their present reality.

I’ll stop here because Iben goes on to reiterate most of her points, and gets in another about the need for complementarity in conventional gender roles, but do watch the whole clip. The point I’m making with this is that there is a coming reckoning that a feminine primary society is beginning to face; post modern feminized gender constructs have fundamentally compromised the security of western culture.

Real Solutions

This then begs the question, what comes as a response to this? As I mention, the typical go-to strategy of the Feminine Imperative is to lean on men’s shame for not taking the masculine responsibility for women’s (and children’s) defense. However the same characteristics that make a conventionally masculine man a good defender are also a liability to women’s sphere of control once all her would-be attackers have been subdued. These are the same characteristic that have been ridiculed, marginalized, denigrated and punished by feminine-centric society for going on 7 decades now.

So what’s the proper response here? No doubt there will be the scorched earth factions who’ll quote us the following:

This city is afraid of me. I have seen its true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout “Save us!”… and I’ll whisper “no.”
– Rorschach, Watchmen 2009

If men need to take responsibility to go back to the old male virtues, to defend the women, the children and the culture it needs to come with a reciprocal incentive for men in doing so. Relying on men’s sense of duty to honor only works insofar as women are appreciative and rewarding of it. As it stands now, the average man either blindly believes his honorable action is to be more “soft-minded” in his approach to honor or has absolutely no motivation to risk himself for women who’ve told him they don’t need his “macho bullshit masculinity” for the past 60 years – right up until she’s assaulted or raped in 2016.

For a complementary gender restructuring of society it implies a reciprocal incentive on the part of women; one I don’t see forthcoming even in the desperate tones of Iben and Anissa.

It may be all well and good to let women such as Anissa to burn along with the rest of feminized Europe, however, Iben does make a valid point; if (European) men don’t do something by reassuming conventional masculinity they stand to find themselves in precisely the position I outline in War Brides:

Evolution has largely selected-for human females with a capacity to form psychological schemas that preserve an ego-investment that would otherwise afflict them with debilitating anxiety, guilt, and the stresses that result from being continuously, consciously aware of their own behavioral incongruities. Evolution selects-for solipsistic women who are blissfully unaware of their solipsism.

[…]women’s peripheral environment dictated the need to develop psychological mechanisms to help them survive. It was the women who could make that emotional disconnect when the circumstances necessitated it who survived and lived to breed when their tribe was decimated by a superior force. This is also known as the War Bride dynamic; women develop an empathy with their conquerors by necessity.

Men are the disposable sex, women, the preserved sex. Men would simply die in favor of a superior aggressor, but women would be reserved for breeding. So it served a feminine imperative to evolve an ability to cut former emotional ties more readily (in favor of her new captor) and focus on a more self-important psychology – solipsism.

Now, here is where I’ll step off the diving board and into the theoretical. It’s my purview that a lot of what men would complain are duplicitous acts of indifference towards them are really rooted in this innate feminine solipsism. That’s a bold statement, I realize, but I’d argue that what men take for inconsiderate indifference in a break up or in ruthless shit tests is really a woman tapping into this innate, self-preserving solipsism. Combine hypergamy with the chronically hostile environments of the past and you end up with a modern day feminine solipsism. Add to this an acculturated sense of female entitlement, social conventions that excuse this ‘duplicity’, and a constant misdirection of intent by women themselves, and you come to where we are now. As if that weren’t enough, throw in the element of hypergamy and the countdown in terms of fertility and long term provisioning that a woman must deal with before hitting the imminent Wall, and now you have a fuller picture of the conditions and stresses that necessitate this solipsistic nature.

It seems clear to me that women who align with Anissa’s feminine-primary mindset exhibit exactly this self-preserving solipsism in the subconscious knowledge that the men of their ‘tribe’ have become acculturated into becoming more like women and unable to defend them from a stronger, more conventionally masculine tribe.

Both Iben and Anissa are on either side of this War Brides dynamic, but both also illustrated the other’s solipsistic approach to dealing with it. I don’t claim to have the solution to this circumstance, and perhaps that should be the focus of discussion, but this is exactly the War Brides dynamic I laid out.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

1,122 comments on “The War Brides of Europe

  1. Ohhhh I got it… Badoo used to be called hot or not when I joined. I was never there to date anyone (i wrote that on my profile description i think). Online dating is like… wtf thats weird, for me. Me and a friend just created accounts there as a competition.

  2. “…Okay.. next. I was raised as a white supremacist.”

    Lol.

    a 20 year old pseudo-white supremacist. Hey Em, who’re you bullshitting here? You’re racist. I’ve read you make your innocent, racist comments.

    You practice a ” soft ” racism. It’s almost sweet and cute.

    But I will give you props on trying to be more polite this go ’round.

    If I gave a fuck, I’d chalk up your nonsensical ways to youth, and assume that as you grow, you’d develop wider experiences that may shape you into a decent person.

    But that probably won’t be the case.

    Folks like you stay off to the side in their own little fantasy worlds, like Disneyland, so nothing in life ever has to change. So you’ll probably be the same as you are now when you’re my age.

    And Thank you. I try not to talk about race here, because racism is the evil twin to feminism. They operate the same, under false premises. But you and a couple of newcomers/lurkers make it very hard to do so. Thanks for that, because I LOVE that ” race ” has to constantly be a part of my world.

    No skin off your nose though.

    http://cdn.meme.am/instances/26642605.jpg

  3. C’mon, kfg, you aren’t seriously expecting a philsophy major to know anything about religion, are you?

  4. You practice a ” soft ” racism. It’s almost sweet and cute
    —————————————–

    Blaximus,

    good call. I use that term to describe Stefan Molonuex’s style of racism. He is smart enough to understand that nobody can make racism “cool”; so instead he uses sophisticated language to try an strip the agency out of it.

    In short, he tries to trick people into thinking racism can exist without a racist.

    And visa versa.

  5. Yeah, I know it’s bigotry, not racism. Not much difference in the two really. It’s not like bigots dislike muslims because of their ideas, and won’t discriminate them based on appearance. When my muslim friend who wears a hijab get’s harassed, she’s not getting harassed because of her ideas, but because of how she looks like. I know a Sikh who was harassed because he, in the eyes of uneducated morons, ‘looks’ muslim. It’s very similar to racism, and the ‘oh it’s bigotry, not racism’ is such a meaningless statement.

  6. It’s very similar to racism, and the ‘oh it’s bigotry, not racism’ is such a meaningless statement.

    Right, because words don’t actually have any clear meanings…

  7. Muslim, Christian, and Buddhist are all well-known genetic traits. You guys would know this if you were modern philosophy majors. Duh.

  8. @ thwack

    Man, I just get tired. It’s not here so much, as it’s everywhere. I turn 55 years old this year and I get a soft comment from a fucking 20 year old spoiled assed brat. Really?

    Woooo-Saaahhhhh.

    I’m going to go home and relax and watch me some Fox News. maybe drive down to DC to see Scalia lying in State.

    It’s not all bad, all the time.

    http://cdn.meme.am/instances/63169040.jpg

  9. @emilyy96

    Child abuse is worse.
    Everyone has ‘due process rights.’ I know some feminists want people accused of rape to be ‘guilty until proven innocent’ but that isn’t the case in our legal system.

    Right… and those due process rights were in-place and worked so well for these guys:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11905639/Teenager-falsely-accused-of-rape-commits-suicide.html
    https://hequal.wordpress.com/2015/10/06/bbc-shows-its-contempt-for-victims-of-false-rape-allegations-yet-again/
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/man-wrongly-accused-of-rape-finally-released-from-prison/article/2568687
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3075125/My-son-s-life-ripped-apart-woman-falsely-cried-rape-twice-Police-knew-Oxford-student-fantasist-did-believe-her.html
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2015/04/27/after-falsely-accusing-an-innocent-man-lena-dunham-is-celebrated-as-a-rape-role-model/
    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/12/everything-we-know-uva-rape-case.html

    Law is not just what is written on books. If it were, it would still be illegal to fornicate in some U.S. states. Law is a combination of legislation and common cultural practices, precedent. Due process is supposed to be a part of both of those aspects of law. Women have removed all due process rights from our culture for men accused of rape. What is left is a system where destruction of a male reputation happens the moment an accusation is made. Women have turned the legal system in a system where accusations have power, not facts. Feelings matter more in condemning a man, not truth.In short, women have destroyed the system of common law the west in order to exert power over men. Rather than reserve judgement and examine facts, women throw men to the wolves based on “feelings”. Fuck your feelings.

    “There is currently status to be gained by faux victimhood”

    Absolute bullshit.

    Oh, so you haven’t read the recent Feminist Frequency 401c reports which show $400,000+ in donations for 2014, and expected donations of $400,000 for 2015… all for pretending to be victims of the patriarchy?

    Sounds like it’s your viewpoint that is absolute bullshit. Not only do women deliberately pretend to be victims to gain the favors of individual men, but since government sought to replace fathers, there’s an entire industry of women who are professional victims… for pay. All you have to do is pretend to be victimized and create a faux-structure for combating your type of victimization, and every single pile of money looking to protect itself or gain tax-breaks is lining up to virtue-signal through donations.

    Or perhaps you didn’t read the Lena Dunham link above, let me re-quote it just in case you have any lingering notion that there is “no status” to be gained by falsely portraying yourself as a victim:
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2015/04/27/after-falsely-accusing-an-innocent-man-lena-dunham-is-celebrated-as-a-rape-role-model/

    Your claims of bullshit reveal your mental state to be either extraordinarily naive, or purely self-indulgent (read: solipsistic).

  10. “I’ve been polite to everyone else here, and you are the only one who seems so bothered as to threaten me (good luck with that by the way.)”

    You have not been the slightest bit polite to the collective blog here ever since “Never Take a Woman Fishing”. You have been rude and dismissive and collectively we commenters are definitely bothered. You are not blind to that fact are you? (Name a commenter that has respect for your opinions and comments or that has agreed with you whole-heartedly). Good luck swimming against the tide, Emily.

    Pro tip: it is easier downstream or with the tide. On this blog. Come along for the ride. All women are red pill, it’s just women like you that don’t want to admit to the psychological manipulations–conscious or unconscious in the hind brain of women–explained by the red pill awareness. (Why is that? …..in your own personal narrative? Hint: it would blow your lock-down of commitment straight out of the fucking water.)

    YGBSM if you actually don’t agree with Rollo’s essays. You are only here because this shit makes sense. And it incenses you because it flies in the face of the FI and threatens your sexual strategy. (And you denying this would actually not hold water in my opinion. Your denying this simply reinforces your fraudulent nature.)

    I’d certainly co-sign a threat by ScribblerG if you continue to be a worthless-to us anti-red pill feminist or holier-than-thou Churchian or post spam comments. Hell I’d tell him to let it rip if you type the word “terper” one more time. Or if you do not have any semblance of respect for masculine red pill awareness and and the evolution of Game in the Manosphere. (…notice how that awareness and game bothers you.. and yet intrigues you …and here you are ….with disrespect). This blog is devoted to that. Sure you can disagree, but have a cohesive, intelligent, well written response to topics being discussed. Don’t type shitty retorts. It’s only an inter-sexual war if you make it one. A common feminist mistake– making it a zero sum game of sexual politics.

    http://www.quotehd.com/imagequotes/TopAuthors/mark-twain-author-it-aint-what-you-dont-know-that-gets-you-into-trouble-its-what.jpg

  11. “Okay.. next. I was raised as a white supremacist.”

    That’s fucked up. Its a good thing u found this place. Humans are humans. Skin color, geography, culture… it’s all really meaninglessness once u scratch beneath the surface.

  12. @ Andy

    wassup Bro!!

    I know a WS. He doesn’t dance around anything and speaks clearly without ” studies ” and such.

    He would only use someone like EM as breeding stock.

    She thinks we are hard on her? Lmao, my ws friend would lock her down, literally. No more badoo for her.

  13. @blax

    I honestly don’t think I’ve ever meet a WS. I believe u though. Is your point that u don’t believe her? I haven’t been following too closely.

  14. Two words sometimes mean the same thing, genius. Or, at least, aren’t particularly distinct.

    Also, the mockery is quite ridiculous too. You think I don’t know muslims are not a race? So just don’t got nothing so you have to resort to pointless remarks.

    Point is, a (more or less) white muslim from, say, Russia, or a convert, is unlikely to face too much discrimination, compared to an Arab or indian muslim. Certain people ‘look’ muslim, and face discrimination because of that. In that way it is similar to racism. It’s also similar to racism in that muslims are often generalized as one big monolithic group.

    SJF, a) I have been polite in this thread (to Rollo && Forge). b) Going w the tide aint fun. c) everyone was chill (incl me) before the last few posts.

    Look, we were just talking about rape culture. I argued that rape culture exists, you guys thought no. The topic concluded. Now can we stop talking before Rollo gets annoyed that this is going so offtopic? Idk whats the problem.

    @Andy
    I agree! ‘white supremacist’ may have been too harsh of a word. My daddy is definitely a racist though and that rubbed off on me a bit. Plus I live in a pretty much all white community. But I am over that. Everyone is equal in the eyes of God and thats what matters.

  15. Anyway, would have responded to the rest but i gotta go.

    I’ll actually try to not reply on this thread again as I’ll probably get banned if this keeps going on. And I don’t want a repeat of the same shit as before 😮

  16. @ Andy

    It’s not that I don’t believe her, but WS is a pretty strong term. They aren’t your garden variety racist types. I think she’s confused. Shocker.

    The WS that I knew was not about ” hate ” as much as he was about the absolute preservation of his race. 2 different things. He believed that there will be a ” race war “, and when that happened, everyone would choose sides and close ranks. He sees himself as a soldier of sorts because he is willing to die in defense of his race.

    Kind of hard to argue against that sentiment. He wasn’t a ” militia ” type, but he trained privately with former Spec Ops guys, and he was 100% serious. No swastikas or brown shirts or pics of Hitler.

    Oh, and feminist are high up on his target list due to the damage they’ve inflicted on White Males.

    Having said all of that, he wasn’t a bad dude. No snarling, spitting and name calling. He just watched and informed and trained. He won’t hurt a fly unless all hell breaks loose. Then all flies must die.

    But, he told me once that he liked me enough to give me an 8 hour head start, so there is that.

    Lol.

    But a young, college chick like Em? She serves a purpose in getting the numbers back up. He won’t care about anything she thinks or says. She will serve and shut up.

    Hence, when she says she was raised a WS….

    http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk196/Meeker44/post-tits-or-gtfo.png

  17. “But I am over that.”.

    Saying that u r over it, wanting to be over it, and actually BEING over it are different things. You just have to be aware of that.

  18. Has anybody else been checking the recent comments area to see if yareally, sentient, scray, HABD, or any other really good commenters have posted only to be disappointed that’s it’s just all fucking Emily lol?

  19. So I was watching The Big Short movie for the second time for me, first time for my wife watching it tonight.

    The Mark Twain quote above came from the beginning of the movie.

    This quote was from the end:

    Mark Baum: “We live in an era of fraud in America. Not just in banking, but in government, education, religion, food, even baseball… What bothers me ins’t that fraud is not nice. Or that fraud is mean. For fifteen thousand years, fraud and short sighted thinking have never, ever worked. Not once. Eventually you get caught, things go south. When the hell did we forget all that? I thought we were better than this, I really did.

    …..He didn’t mention feminism and the Feminine imperative and social conventions.

    “SJF, a) I have been polite in this thread (to Rollo && Forge). b) Going w the tide aint fun. c) everyone was chill (incl me) before the last few posts.”

    a) good for you….., but not enough.

    b) you spelled ain’t wrong. And you show no fortitude, congruence or signs that you really are a philosophy major (you are narrow minded in regards to inter-sexual matters, theology, and philosophical matters and humanities ( and you would probably claim no time to read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance–but then that would be hard–a book about metaphysics and a dissection of classical philosophical thought into a new paradigm and a narrative on three levels).

    c) you’re deluded.

    Come clean Em. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so that is going to screw you . You are either a fraud or don’t know much, and you think you know stuff for sure. Good luck when you can’t get your man to commit. Or if you do and you engage in manipulating him with the female stages of manipulation and then become disgusted with his Beta-tization. (You are actually not paying attention her to either of these two eventualities that are easily avoided by not going with the tide because you lack fortitude).

    Your lack of contrite-ness is not endearing. And you won’t get banned again unless you do your best imitation of InanitybytesII and spam the stuff like you did in imitation of her originally (Church good, …Red pill bad). She didn’t just get it and you barely just get it.

  20. Emilyslut
    Two words sometimes mean the same thing, genius.

    Here, philosophy major, let me help you out:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synonym

    Also, the mockery is quite ridiculous too. You think I don’t know muslims are not a race?

    Dearie, I won’t even presume to guess what you don’t know, but I think the library is pretty much full of it.

    Point is, a (more or less) white muslim from, say, Russia, or a convert, is unlikely to face too much discrimination, compared to an Arab or indian muslim.

    You mean, like the Caucasian brothers in Boston? Or more like Indonesians? Or maybe more like some Tanzanians?

    Certain people ‘look’ muslim, and face discrimination because of that.

    LOL. Dearie, I’ve worked with Indians and Pakistanis and Bangladeshis – some were Moslems, some were Hindu, some were Sikhs. The Indian Moslem didn’t “look” any more Moslem than his Pakistani cube mate, and both of them didn’t “look” any more Moslem than the Hindu down the hall.

    In that way it is similar to racism. It’s also similar to racism in that muslims are often generalized as one big monolithic group.

    Dearie, I could line up a dozen men from India and have you point out the ones that “look” Moslem, likely you’d fail. Especially if I stacked the lineup with Hindus, Christians and Parsis…

    Now here’s the point you are missing in your stubborn atempt to play WordGirl:

    A woman wearing a garment associated with Islam can take it off. She may not want to for religious reasons, but she can do so. A Sikh man who turbans can cut his hair off. He might not want to for religous reasons, but he can do so (I’ve also worked with / supervised short-hair Sikhs, BTW). All these removable symbols can be, as it were, removed.

    However, and he’ll correct me if I’m wrong, Blaximus (might be MISTER Blaximus to you by now, dearie) can’t go taking off his skin without a lot of fuss, and trouble, and it would get real messy in a short time. Not to mention downright inconvenient.

    Do you see any, like, difference ‘tween the two situations? Why, it’s almost as though we have two different words that don’t quite mean the same thing…because of two different situations that aren’t quite the same.

  21. @ Dutch

    “Has anybody else been checking the recent comments area to see if yareally, sentient, scray, HABD, or any other really good commenters have posted only to be disappointed that’s it’s just all fucking Emily lol?”

    You say that comment above as they are more seductive than the married or non PUA based “good commenters” .

    I got nothing against the PUA guys. I like them a lot. They are all good and PUA skills are fungible with married man game. And most of all they are good commenters: based on The ScribblerG Manifesto that they are engaging an move the discussion along .

    I expect reciprocal respect. Some of our ideas are important if the decide on a LTR in the future. In other words no disrespect for Red Pill masculine married monogamous guys. (not whining, here….just don’t be bored by us).

    Some of us weren’t told this stuff 20 years ago and were not naturals. The important thing is either not to enter into a LTR with someone like Emily, or enter with the proper Frame and awareness, and then not abdicate to the female stages of manipulation and Beta-tization.

    By the same token, I would Laugh out Fucking Loud if they think less of the not so old 47 to 54 year old married monogamous guys that are in a good place.

    The narrative on why emily matters is because she is “The FI and Social Conventions” that would attempt to deride the red pill and game narrative on Rollo’s dedicated blog.

    Us against them (the FI). Undivided Masculine Imperative.

    It is not a zero sum game. There is room enough on WordPress for single man PUA’s and married monogamous men with good wives and young adult children. Shouldn’t be a problem.

    The comments on older essays shouldn’t be annoying, it is water under the bridge and everyone can just scroll.

    So, no harm done, so far.

  22. YaReally has comments on “Warrior Princess” and a link to a yuuge 2 hour video. So no worries.

    Emilydearie, Islam is not a “race”. You were, like, totally airheaded to accuse anyone of being “racist” towards Islam whether you know it or not.
    You could admit a mistake and move on, or double down, it’s your choice.

    But it’s turning out to be our entertainment.

  23. Let me put Emily to work.

    What does this mean?

    In your best college exposition?

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbiXtyqUYAAMcxz.jpg

    And from both sides now. Explain from the Fi side and the MI side.

    Show us you have a clue.

    Let’s see if you can explicate a thought for us.

    Or that you care to contribute to a red pill blog

    Or would you rather go all Joni Mitchell on us now.

    I’ve looked at clouds from both sides now,
    from up and down, and still somehow
    it’s cloud illusions I recall.
    I really don’t know clouds at all.

    I’ve looked at love from both sides now,
    from give and take, and still somehow
    it’s love’s illusions that I recall.
    I really don’t know love at all.

    I’ve looked at life from both sides now,
    from win and lose, and still somehow
    it’s life’s illusions I recall.
    I really don’t know life at all.

    Ok those are the refrains, but the (IDK what the opposite of refrain is in a song), shows the obfuscation that serves the FI, Lol…:

    Bows and flows of angel hair and ice cream castles in the air
    and feather canyons everywhere, I’ve looked at clouds that way.
    But now they only block the sun, they rain and snow on everyone.
    So many things I would have done but clouds got in my way.

    Moons and Junes and ferris wheels, the dizzy dancing way that you feel
    as every fairy tale comes real; I’ve looked at love that way.
    But now it’s just another show. You leave ’em laughing when you go
    and if you care, don’t let them know, don’t give yourself away.

    Tears and fears and feeling proud, to say “I love you” right out loud,
    dreams and schemes and circus crowds, I’ve looked at life that way.
    But now old friends are acting strange, they shake their heads, they say
    I’ve changed.
    Something’s lost but something’s gained in living every day.

    Indeed, Miss Emily: “Moons and Junes and ferris wheels, the dizzy dancing way that you feel”

    Jumble your words for the FI. Keep doing that and you will get no respect here. Or commitment from your boyfriend unless you keep it up. With deceit.

  24. @Em – Civility is all I ask. You did so, good and thank you. But what you didn’t answer is where you see rape culture represented in these comments as you mentioned in an earlier comment. No need to answer, just be clear, that, and your nasty tone with Liz are what had me set consequences for you. You also only dealt with some of my arguments against rape culture existing, ignoring many other points I made. I don’t really care much, but just realize your response was quite insufficient in the face of the argument I made.

    As for you who you date, what’s racist about it is that you won’t date a black man categorically. Me? I’m rarely attracted to black women and I feel that such a preference is innate in me so I don’t feel badly about it. But I don’t have a prohibition on it. Is your Dad going to hold back tuition payments or something if you did date a black man?

    Let’s be clear, bigotry is when you dislike/devalue/discriminate against a class of people due to something innate in them. Religion is not innate for an adult. A child may have it forced on them by their parents, so they cannot be held to account for their beliefs. But an adult? If they choose to be a fundamentalist muslim as an adult, a la the Deobandi sect or a Salafist or a Shia 12er? I have every moral right to make a value judgment about them based on their loathsome, savage belief system. And since such a view of Islam is not just a religion, but is in actuality a totalitarian governing ideology for every aspect of society that is in sharp disagreement with classically liberal, Enlightenment values and is overtly hostile to those values and any society which holds them, I’m correct as seeing those people as my foe and treat them as such. I’m also completely free to see that belief system as less worthy than mine. Nothing about that makes me a bigot. No more than seeing a communist as my enemy and as morally defective makes me a bigot.

    Get your head straight about what bigotry is and isn’t. Racism is merely bigotry based on the innate trait of race.

    I still maintain what I said, I see you as trying to improve in many ways and I’m glad for you. Now just try on a little humility – a very Christian trait, it will do you so much good. A little hint, if you don’t get humble, life will humiliate you and humble you anyway. It’s much less painful to develop humility proactively. Happy trails.

  25. “YaReally has comments on “Warrior Princess” and a link to a yuuge 2 hour video. So no worries.”

    No one is worried about YaReally. Unless he disrespects the fuller tribe that respects him immensely.

    (Disrespect by he shouldn’t give his catty comments about the non PUA guys. And not that he has much showed disrespect, only a slight tendency on non red pill/game comments, and slight annoyance from the married monogamous croud few….in not giving field reports. Or slight disrespect for those that are not getting laid, but are trying hard to masculine self improve. BTW here is a married man field report: I fucked my wife. It was good. And I like her and have great children. Heh. )

    So I’m not really dissing YaReally. Just reporting on tone and his sub-comms. Did I mention I like and respect him? It is true. And expect reciprocity.

    Emily, on the other hand is worrisome. It is reflected in the FI which is a sore spot from those of us who are married and monogamous and don’t have the power of next. Don’t want the next and will not use the next.

    She’s being a bitch. Here. And being put on notice. Emily we are saying NO! to your behavior. Proceed at your own risk. (Not likely you’ve heard a lot of NO!’s in your life.)

    No whining here. No frustration here. Just a celebration of the masculine. And improving on being better at being a masculine male.

    Carry on.

    I think another essay reached a 1000 comment level.

  26. @SJF

    You obviously have alot of self respect to argue with Emily. Some people have better uses of their time.

    “The comments on older essays shouldn’t be annoying, it is water under the bridge and everyone can just scroll.
    So, no harm done, so far.”

    scrolling through math and replies to emily are annoying

  27. Scribblerg: “False accusations – I’m going to try to wrap up so here is a link to a site where two very good studies of false accusations of rape are described. http://www.mediaradar.org/research_on_false_rape_allegations.php rather than cite them here and present the deets of them. The short story is that as many as 60% of rape claims in the studies were found to be unfounded and/or false. There are almost no good studies of this phenomena these days because the RadFems in academia have completely clamped down on it being studied carefully. These two studies were deep and involved looking at hundreds of cases and the disposition of them and interviewing accusers, check out the link and then look up the studies referenced and footnoted. It’s astonishing.”

    That was a good link. It is truly frustrating in the extreme to watch this sort of stuff happen time and again. I read an article a few months back around the time of the Congressional uproar over the acquittal of an officer accused of sexual assault (the General who exercised his authority in that case was publicly disgraced and forced into retirement, and those who know him know he was one of the very rare good flag officers, a real loss). A couple of the female Congressmen leading the charge against the accused (the specifics are enlightening, no evidence whatsoever and much concrete evidence contrary to the witness’s conflicting and alternating testimony) found out that many of the rape accusers in the services were later diagnosed with mental problems following the acquittal of the accused. Their conclusion: “The military is punishing women for being raped! And calling the crazy!”
    It doesn’t seem to register for them that it could possibly be the other way around. It’s the oddest thing when shame is supposed to put the onus for burden of proof onto the accused. “Why would a woman lie about something like that?” But the women who are doing the accusing obviously associate no shame at all with very blatant sexual profligacy. We had an officer who continuously banged her subordinates until she was caught in flagrante delicato by a superior and then she claimed, “rape!” to save her career. In college I knew women who claimed to have been raped in drunken encounters at parties but they did not change their behaviors in any way.

    The accepted standard (as we’ve seen here) is:
    “If a woman says she has been raped, she should be believed!”
    and on the flip side, this requires:
    “If a man says he didn’t rape someone, he shouldn’t be believed!”

    Any suggestions that the above might be an erroneous paradigm are met with: Rape culture enabler! (and disparaging remarks about one’s character/ imagined appearance and so forth)

  28. Since we don’t have an edit button, adding one bolded word to one sentence above:
    But the women who are doing the accusing often obviously associate no shame at all with very blatant sexual profligacy.

  29. @ Mersonia

    Yes. I have lots of self respect and plenty of free time. I work full time 2 1/2 days a week.I spent a glorious day yesterday farming. (mostly chainsaw work). Then spent a few moments commenting while watching a movie for the second time.

    If you are annoyed, there is always the off button on your computer. And the scroll wheel on your mouse. You don’t have to read this shit. And perhaps you could post something insightful or add value and move the dialog along in interesting ways?

    No one is forcing you to read old threads.

  30. There’s a female pilot (yes, a pilot) who expended a great deal of city resources attempting to catch the culprit who “sexually assaulted” her here (she is stationed elsewhere). She’s the one who ripped her own blouse and has a history of claiming the same at other bases. Rumor has it she is working on writing a book.

  31. Again Liz? Again? How immature are you smh.

    “The accepted standard (as we’ve seen here) is:
    “If a woman says she has been raped, she should be believed!”
    and on the flip side, this requires:
    “If a man says he didn’t rape someone, he shouldn’t be believed!”

    I never said either of those things. But I know you have no arguments and are just looking for drama, so carry on.

    “Is your Dad going to hold back tuition payments or something if you did date a black man?”

    No. But daddy wants me to marry a white guy, and I don’t want to disrespect him.

    “LOL. Dearie, I’ve worked with Indians and Pakistanis and Bangladeshis – some were Moslems, some were Hindu, some were Sikhs. The Indian Moslem didn’t “look” any more Moslem than his Pakistani cube mate”

    >.> that’s exactly my point. Sikhs and Hindus are often the target of islamophobia, just because they ‘look moslim.’

    “I would Laugh out Fucking Loud if they think less of the not so old 47 to 54 year old married monogamous guys that are in a good place.”

    Same 🙂

  32. “Man, I just get tired. It’s not here so much, as it’s everywhere. I turn 55 years old this year and I get a soft comment from a fucking 20 year old spoiled assed brat. Really?” –Blaximus
    —————————————————————————————-

    I hear you bro.

    Its really difficult to find a good qualified racist to spar/train with these days. When I first found Chateau Heartiste I thought I died and entered heaven; but after a few rounds I found them to be among the weakest, sorriest, bitch made racists I’d ever met.

    It was very disappointing because I was always taught you don’t improve as a fighter by fighting people weaker than you; it only makes you weaker, lazy, less creative, less innovative… (you listenin Israel?)

    It was very disappointing.

    All I hafta say about “Emily” is:

    “who bitch this is?”

    BTW- although I agree racism is the evil twin sister of feminism; but I’ll go one further and cosign the Ayn Rand case that its also the WORST form of collectivism.

    Isn’t it ironic these racists worship Hitler and National Socialism when its nothing more than collectivism on steroids?

    There are two types of socialism; National, and International.

    I say shoot them both.

  33. I don’t know a graceful way to answer that, thwack. I come to the sphere because I have sons and a huge vested interest in affairs related to gender issues. I’d prefer my ideas rest on merit. That’s what brought me to internet debate in the first place (political and miltiary forums typically).

  34. Per looks and merit…in reality, sure. On the internet? Not so much. It’s the internet and anyone can claim anything. I’m not in a position to post my photo because of my husband’s occupation. At one point in time, I did for one day and it wasn’t wise. A very savvy computer guy said, this is a mistake mrs liz, and after I switched my gravatar image to a dog he linked to the old photo to show me he could still access it…then he kindly wiped the cache clean after a mild scolding.
    He also posted a limerick:

    From the hot one that made our hands twitch,
    Liz pulled a cruel Gravitar switch.
    Now we are led to suspect,
    since we can’t get erect,
    she did it because she’s a Maltese.

    To answer your question, no I’ve never been fat at all (well, except when preggo I hate being fat). At present, I most resemble Naomi Watts when she was a tad younger (at least, that’s who people say I resemble). In that restaurant in Sardinia I’m not sure who they thought I was.

  35. “what actress or singer do you most resemble?”
    Lana Del Rey

    Liz, you didn’t have to address me again after our conversation concluded. It was quite immature.

  36. Liz, thank you for your answer.

    I’ll give you the same suggestion I give my white friends who want to fight racism by dialoguing with black people.

    Your job is NOT to insert yourself into the discussion among the victims.

    Your job is to run experiments on the suspects and simply report the results back to us.

    Thats ALL you should be doing in terms of interacting with us (unless you got nipples that look like the caps on magic markers?)

    Don’t make me get all Antonin Scalia on you

  37. OMFG this is still going on?!

    Liz, I didn’t mean to imply that you were a misogynist in general before. It’s not a general sort of attitude. But it is an impulse women have that men don’t generally, the difference is mostly in the proportion of other women able to elicit it.

    I have difficulty imagining you reacting like this to a male commentator.

    i just am used to girls around 20 acting like this I guess. I don’t really mind. The arrogance is generally a learned facade. As a man, if you cut it away they are yours. See, cutting away facades demonstrates that you respect what they are, not their act.

    So she actually treats Rollo and I decently and civilly (still gives us some shit of course just for fun) bc we’re not interested in engaging her ego.

    Not sure how to react as a woman though. I see my mother flailing to deal with a sister who’s kinda like this too, and she’s no fool. Maybe conflict is inevitable. These behaviors, frankly, are instinctively designed to get top men and compete with women for men. Not much grounds for cooperation there.

  38. “I have difficulty imagining you reacting like this to a male commentator.”

    I would not because I respect this as a male space. I have been called a rape culture supporter before for my observations and opinion (in non sphere places) by one man (it’s not typical but there is the occasional odd duck), on one occasion. I did not respond to him the same, but then he had a bit more class than to assert that I was an ugly, poor, old, and only held the opinion I did because I was jealous of him.

  39. Woo Hooooo … only 7 more to go!

    Anyways, to get back on topic to the original blog post:

    Does anyone think Europe is toast?

    Can they pull themselves out of this, or have they so lost their mojo that they’re going be swamped by the raging, ZFG muslim hordes?

  40. “Does anyone think Europe is toast?”

    Boris Johnson has sniffed the wind and today came out in favor of Britain leaving the EU.

    Angela Merkel is starting to get triggered by the sight of lampposts.

    It’s all balanced on the razor’s edge at the moment.

  41. >Angela Merkel is starting to get triggered by the sight of lampposts.

    I think she can probably see the writing on the wall.

    The Bavarian stste government pressured her administration last fall by threatening to mount a constituiponal challeng to the federal govt’s immigration policy

    https://www.rt.com/news/318160-bavaria-sue-german-government/

    and then just a couple of weeks ago, a group of lawyers actually filed a lawsuit against the federal government in Karlsruhe

    http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/fluechtlinge-zurueckweisung-an-der-grenze-laut-bundesregierung-zulaessig-a-1073404.html

    The article is in German, maybe there’s an English summary simewhere, but basically, the hook the guys are using to give themselves standing is that they were deprived of their right to representation when they voted, due to the feds not following EU regulations on refugee admissions, and the so-called Dublin Accord. So Merkel’s govt needs to rememdy its constitutional violation.

    So now the ball is in Merkel’s court. We’ll see if this story can grow legs. It’ll be interesting to see if the lawyers in suits or the PEGIDA guys in leather jackets ultimately make more difference.

  42. Shit, I just did a search on migrant sexual assault and came up with this compilation. What you don’t get to see on this side of the Atlantic is just how MUCH sexual assault is happening in Europe.

    Another guy announcing that the emperor has no clothes.

  43. “‘Lana del Rey’
    Welp, can’t un-see that one.”

    Cmon! Don’t pretend you don’t see the resemblance 🙂 😛

    Europe’s main problem is that they have rejected Christianity, and thus lost the core part of their culture. If they had a strong culture and religion, muslims and other immigrants wouldn’t be able to influence their countries like they do. Actually, they probably wouldn’t even be there in such great numbers, because Europe wouldn’t have to accept as many immigrants as they do if they had higher birth rates.

  44. Just had a look at the channel of the guy who put up the video above.

    THIS video advances the proposition that suppression and diversion of women’s hypergamous behavior has been the basis for a social contract that incentivises men to achieve great things.

    He then goes on to assert that once society frees, or even worse, incentivizes women’s hypergamy societies fall apart.

    He’s of the “Europe is a goner” school because of this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxpVwBzFAkw

    What do you think?

  45. Meant to put this in the post above: will add it here.

    This has to be the.most.politically.incorrect.video.I’ve.ever.seen!

    Enough to send a SJW into spasmings of incoherent rage.

    Might even cause a few medical emergencies (strokes, heart attacks, epilectic siezures-LOL.)

    I would looooove to be watching a webcam of Lena Dunham or Anna Sarkesian (or Andrea Dworkin) reacting to this thing.

    On another note, J.D. Unwin’s book Sex and Culture was published in 1934 and is no longer copyrighted. You can download a copy to read for yourself here

    https://archive.org/details/b20442580

  46. ^I think he doesn’t get enough.

    Thing is, 80/20 is also false. Mathematically.

    Shall I demonstrate?

    I do agree that society is far more stable when women are more chaste though. But with birth control and everything, there is very little reason for either men or women to be chaste. Other than religion, and hardly anyone my age is religious…

  47. Miss Em,

    The Pareto Distribution and the Pareto Principle are actually quite observable in social, scientific, geophysical, actuarial, and many other types of observable phenomena. Wiki both.

    You don’t observe that 20% of the college campus guys are worth your time and interest and the other 80% aren’t? YGBSM

    And, you didn’t demonstrate.

    You remonstrated.

  48. Cmon! Don’t pretend you don’t see the resemblance

    Nope. Lana del Rey is sensual but not slutty about it…

    Actually, they probably wouldn’t even be there in such great numbers, because Europe wouldn’t have to accept as many immigrants as they do if they had higher birth rates.

    You are aware that Merkel, the PM of Germany, openly invited all the refugees from Syria, and that many of the “refugees” are actually from the Balkans and other places? So the current crisis has nothing to do with birth rates at all?

    Which valley did you grow up in?

  49. That was an interesting video, Tom. Lots to consider there.
    I agree that the West is destroying its own civilization but I’m not so sure the equation is quite so linear. Yes, Muslims are starting to invade the West (because the West is allowing it) but I can’t help but notice most of the Islamic countries are comparative hell holes.

  50. Just comparing less strict countries with more strict ones, too, the difference is pretty striking. Afghanistan under the Taliban versus Bahrain, Saudi versus the UAE, and so forth. I know there are economic factors but there really is no comparison. Egypt doesn’t seem to be becoming better and more “culturally enriched/advanced” now that things are becoming less Westernized either.

  51. Just thinking further regarding the video,
    I think (what it didn’t touch on) there’s some middle ground where the passion and beauty of life are preserved by keeping some personal freedoms intact but morality, honor, social accountability and values like integrity are preserved enough to maintain community and family cohesion and societal advancement. In practical reality (since humans aren’t perfect) that balance will never be perfect but I think up until pretty recently the West did it far better by comparison to most.

    Of course a lot of it has to do with safety. People who aren’t on the pointy edge of survival have time to learn and think, create and produce things beyond their immediately urgent needs. At one end, society becomes too docile and domesticated to the point everyone forgets that the equation of violence is always a part of their life and their lifestyle rests on the fact that their security needs are met. The bonds that hold societies, communities, families together are then broken if there is no moral code to compensate once the actual need to directly rely on one another dissolves.***

    By contrast, at the other end of the spectrum, life is always on the day to day and nothing is produced because there isn’t enough freedom.

    *** Maintaining a moral code (in the imperfect human world) requires some sort of accountability (either direct or indirect or both).

  52. SJF, the Pareto Principle is not universal. It is observed in some systems, but certainly not in human sexuality. I’m not sure if it was EVER true in human sexuality. Certainly the nobility in the past had many partners, and other important people, but they represented a small percent of the population. Catholic monogamy and arranged marriage probably also meant most people were with a partner. Definitely more men than women were left with no partner, but it was nothing like 80% of all men. In the Victorian era most people were married. In the Islamic world, it may have been more observable due to polygamy, but few could afford that, and marriage was also usually within families and tribes (cousins) so most would have partners.

    Applying the Pareto Principle to human sexuality is so ridiculous I found almost no study from any university that even mentioned it. It’s mostly applied to economics, and perhaps could model mating habits of… sealions or something.

    In my college I guess many guys go the 4 years without getting laid. The stem nerds I suppose. But many gals also go 4 years without it, not the same number but still significant. The vast majority of people, men and women, have a few LTRs in college, and thats it. The guys who sleep around mostly sleep around with the sluts and the sluts mostly sleep around with those guys.

    So recap, a certain percentage are virgins, about 60% have LTRs, and the rest hook up w each other. So this 20% probably sleep around with 20-30% of the girls. You can observe this from the stats, and remember, guys usually report a higher number and girls a lower number.

    If anything the Pareto Principle is less true now that women are more free.

  53. Emily, in your first paragraph you are describing constrained systems. Nobility, Catholic constraints (monogamous marriages), Victorian and Islamic systems.

    It is in an unconstrained chimpanzee like system 70,000 years ago that human brains were hard-wired for.

    And monogamy is a constrained system. And college is pretty unconstrained and your figures back up a Pareto distribution (20% of guys are getting laid on campus, 80% of men and women are not or are pair bonded–and I have nothing against pair bonding, personally).

    “Applying the Pareto Principle to human sexuality is so ridiculous I found almost no study from any university that even mentioned it.”

    Of course not. The Matrix is not coded to allow for the Red Pill Awareness. (20% of men are Alpha Fucks and 80% are Beta Bucks. University Studies would not allow awareness of women’s dualistic sexual strategy).

    Morpheus: I imagine that right now, you’re feeling a bit like Alice. Hmm? Tumbling down the rabbit hole?

    Neo: You could say that.

    Morpheus: I see it in your eyes. You have the look of a man who accepts what he sees because he is expecting to wake up. Ironically, that’s not far from the truth. Do you believe in fate, Neo?

    Neo: No.

    Morpheus: Why not?

    Neo: Because I don’t like the idea that I’m not in control of my life.

    Morpheus: I know *exactly* what you mean. Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world. You don’t know what it is, but it’s there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I’m talking about?

    Neo: The Matrix.

    Morpheus: Do you want to know what it is?

    Neo: Yes.

    Morpheus: The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work… when you go to church… when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

    Neo: What truth?

    Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else you were born into bondage. Into a prison that you cannot taste or see or touch. A prison for your mind.

  54. Are we going for 2000 now?
    I admire your spirit!
    I don’t want to quarrel any more, truly.
    I’ll only say that if you believe I have a point above, you should understand my reaction to you. This stuff is all tied in.

  55. I wasn’t being sarcastic, I was actually saying you have a point. And no, I don’t think it’s tied in at all.

    I was just agreeing that we do need to find a middle ground between traditional ideas and modern ideas of freedom (particularly of women.) I think the West was once briefly at that point but has now completely lost it’s way. Feminists are taking it too far in one direction and TRP and MRA (though of course, they are not near as influential) in the other.

    SJF, what I think he was saying is that 20% of men get 80% of women. Which is ridiculous.
    But if you mean 20% of people participate in hook up culture and have way more partners than the remaining 80%… I guess I agree w that.

  56. “SJF, what I think he was saying is that 20% of men get 80% of women. Which is ridiculous.”

    @the 7:30 mark in the video, the Pigeon guy states that 80% of women are pursuing 20% of the men. No one said these 20% alpha men are pursuing 80% of the women or fucking them. That would be truly ridiculous. Just look around campus. Would a hot guy go after the woman in the 25% percentile (attractiveness wise)?

  57. “Don’t tell me you don’t see the resemblance”

    Oh, I see it. It’s just now I can’t stop hearing it.

    I tend to use Lana del Rey as the cartoon example of female behavior gone amok.

    Light of my life, fire of my loins
    Be a good baby, do what I want
    Light of my life, fire of my loins
    Give me them gold coins, give me them coins

    And I’m off to the races, cases of Bacardi chasers
    Chasin’ me all over town ’cause he knows I’m wasted,
    Facin’ time again on Rikers Island and I won’t get out
    Because I’m crazy baby, I need you to come here and save me
    I’m your little scarlet, starlet, singin’ in the garden
    Kiss me on my open mouth
    Ready for you

    @AR

    “Nope. Lana del Rey is sensual but not slutty about it…”

    Have you seen her music videos?

  58. @Liz

    ” I think (what it didn’t touch on) there’s some middle ground where the passion and beauty of life are preserved by keeping some personal freedoms intact but morality, honor, social accountability and values like integrity are preserved enough to maintain community and family cohesion and societal advancement. In practical reality (since humans aren’t perfect) that balance will never be perfect but I think up until pretty recently the West did it far better by comparison to most.

    Of course a lot of it has to do with safety. People who aren’t on the pointy edge of survival have time to learn and think, create and produce things beyond their immediately urgent needs. At one end, society becomes too docile and domesticated to the point everyone forgets that the equation of violence is always a part of their life and their lifestyle rests on the fact that their security needs are met. The bonds that hold societies, communities, families together are then broken if there is no moral code to compensate once the actual need to directly rely on one another dissolves.***

    By contrast, at the other end of the spectrum, life is always on the day to day and nothing is produced because there isn’t enough freedom.”

    Yes. That’s the crux of the matter.

    1. SJF, what I think he was saying is that 20% of men get 80% of women.

      Define ‘get‘.

      With regard to intersexual dynamics the Pareto principle isn’t about the getting, it’s about the wanting.

      Women’s innate Hypergamous nature ensures a model that aligns with the Pareto principle – even if the overall result of women settling for less than optimal Hypergamy appears to contradict it.

      Like most women, Emily presumes the goal-state outcome of intersexual dynamics should be to arrive at a monogamous state. This is the consolidation of a female sexual strategy and because we live in a feminine-primary social order it’s perceived as the “correct” goal.

      In fact the concept that it wouldn’t be a mutual goal between the sexes is an alien thought to her. Subconsciously she and most other women only reinforce the feminine-correct goal state of LTR monogamy by endlessly reinforcing it. It’s part of women’s Hypergamous firmware to do so because it ensures (or tries to) their subconscious need for parental investment and long term security / provisioning.

      However what she intentionally disregards is that her own sexual strategy choices that seek to find optimization in Hypergamy are determined by the want to pair with a mate who exceeds her own SMV. Thus, the Pareto principle applies.

  59. “*** Maintaining a moral code (in the imperfect human world) requires some sort of accountability (either direct or indirect or both).”

    Feminism (specifically feminist ideals that are anathema to a functioning free society when practiced en masse due to the destruction of those aforementioned bonds that tie societies together in the cohesive manner beneficial and necessary for human societies to thrive) has succeeded as an ideology because of perverse direct and indirect incentives.

  60. I see. Well SJF, it works that way both ways. 80% of women want the top 20%? Yeah, and 80% of men want the top 20% of women.
    Considering that, it is such a meaningless statement, especially in context of the video.

    @FORGE
    Ohhh oops. I getcha. I don’t like her songs either, but people say I look like her. Not so much w the blonde hair though.

  61. “Well SJF, it works that way both ways. 80% of women want the top 20%? Yeah, and 80% of men want the top 20% of women.”

    Yes. That is what Vilfredo Pareto posited as the Pareto distrubution. It is observed across many systems. It is not meaningless. It is an observation. And it is clearly seen on campuses.

  62. It’s seen everywhere, not just campuses.

    But 80% of women seldom having sex with 20% of men? Truth is societal conditioning means that most of us want one man to commit to us, and no one else. That means 80% of women won’t go for 20% of the men. Therefore, the 80/20 rule of attraction doesn’t apply for sex (80% of women won’t have sex with 20% of men. And certainly 80% of men won’t have sex w 20% of women xD.)
    And yeah, you are observing this less and less. So the dude in the video doesn’t really have a point regarding the 80/20 thing.

    IMHO 😮

    1. Yeah, and 80% of men want the top 20% of women.

      Incorrect. You misunderstand men’s sexual strategy because you presume (once again) that men and women would share the feminine-correct strategy by complying with women’s sexual goal-states.

      Go browse the categories of porn on PornHub and then come back here and attempt to explain the sheer variety of niche desires men have with regards to types of women.

      Men’s arousal cues for women are far more static and far more stringent than women’s are for men.

      http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/15/womens-physical-standards/

      You presume an equalist standard with regard to sex and it’s evident in everything you post. You fail to grasp even the possibility that men and women’s sexual strategies are in conflict with the other’s because you believe men and women are functional equals.

      They are not, and certainly not with regard to sex:

      http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/04/women-sex/

  63. “I see. Well SJF, it works that way both ways. 80% of women want the top 20%? Yeah, and 80% of men want the top 20% of women.
    Considering that, it is such a meaningless statement, especially in context of the video.”

    Solipsism & equivocation at it’s most inane. Educational & entertaining at the same time. Does this little girl’s hamster ever take a break?

  64. Emily,

    Perhaps you should go back and read this for relevance.

    http://therationalmale.com/2015/11/03/christian-dread/

    “There was a section in the London Real video interview of Nick Krauser where he explains the distribution of labor aspect of how religion and the 80\20 aspect of the Pareto Principle interact with Hypergamy and intersexual dynamics. I may explore this in another post, but the idea is that monogamous marriage in a Christian sense relatively ensured that the 80% Beta men could reasonably expect to get a woman for exclusive sex and pass on his genetic lineage.”

  65. Emily,

    Black Pigeon in the video said that 80% of women have desire for 20% of men. That’s all.

    “Truth is societal conditioning means that most of us want one man to commit to us, and no one else. That means 80% of women won’t go for 20% of the men.”

    No one said women can’t be conditioned. It is when they are unconditioned and unrestrained sexually that “Houston, we have a problem…..”

  66. @Chump, I stopped at ‘solipsism.’
    http://www.iep.utm.edu/solipsis/

    @SJF
    That certainly is interesting. Without Christian values and without modern conditioning you may see sexual habits go closer to 80/20. If everyone is having open relationships, then girls will most likely choose to go for the 20% of guys, and those guys would probably have sex with a larger percentage of gals.

    But as it is, the hook up culture is still not very common or accepted even in my generation, so you don’t see that.

    Anyway, if 80% of women do have sex with 20% of men and no one else, then yes that would be destructive buuuut, why is that women’s fault? So women need to control their sexuality and be monogamous but men don’t?

    He says in the video that most men came into an agreement to have only one woman each. That did happen, but it was because of religion. in every culture. The majority of men are now not religious and have no plans on being monogamous. Whenever I see discussion of 80/20 on the manosphere it’s usually ‘ohh we gotta be part of that 20% who have sex with 80% of women man!’

  67. Emilyslut
    The guys who sleep around mostly sleep around with the sluts and the sluts mostly sleep around with those guys.

    So where do you and your now blue-balled boyfriend fit into that picture, dearie? Just wondering…

    Emily, you’re a gift that keeps on giving…

  68. With regard to intersexual dynamics the Pareto principle isn’t about the getting, it’s about the wanting.

    This. Women given a choice will almost universally profess to wanting a man at least 6′ tall. I’d say 80% is on the conservative end of my estimate. Try inputting 19 years old and 72 inches tall here:

    http://reference.medscape.com/calculator/height-age-percentile-boys

    There’s your easiest illustration of the upper 20% that most women want. They don’t even realize it’s the upper 20%, but they insist on it when asked. How many of them are going to get it in the long run? Let’s just say we’re gonna have a lot of disappointed women.

  69. Emily, let me draw your attention to a book, but don’t worry you can get it on Kindle as well as hardback, Dataclysm by Christian Rudder, one of the founders of OKCupid. In this book we see the Pareto principle clearly displayed in terms of the men that women find attractive just as SJF pointed out to you.

    OKCupid has a big data set to work with, far bigger than anything any academic has ever played with. And it is easy to determine from the women’s own preferences in their actions via OKCupid what they find attractive in a man.

    Women find only the top 20% of men to be “attractive”. It’s right in the book, in black and red (ink), and it’s backed up by OKCupid’s yuuge dataset.

    In practical, university-world hookup terms: 20% of men are deemed to be worth having sex with, the other 80% are invisible to women. This isn’t just true of carousel-riding sluts like Emily, it’s true of the carousel-watchers, the women who have little to no sex, but who watch and pine for the same top 20% of men that the sluts are screwing around with.

    There are biological reasons for this, as red pill men know full well.
    So, Emilyslut, if you wish to disagree with SJF about Pareto’s workings in college mating habits, bring something more than your own feelings, like, oh, a data set as big as OKCupid’s.

  70. Meanwhile in the same book, Dataclysm we find tables of data that agree with Rollo’s PornHub observation: men tend to find the top 50% or so of women to be most attractive, as one would expect from a random process. “Random” in this case not meaning “throw a dart at a picture and decide to go after her”, but rather that men’s attraction triggers are so wide across the possible women that any woman can find some man who is attracted to her.

    SunWukong
    There’s your easiest illustration of the upper 20% that most women want. They don’t even realize it’s the upper 20%, but they insist on it when asked.

    Exactly what Dataclysm reveals from the yuuge data set of OKCupid.

    How many of them are going to get it in the long run? Let’s just say we’re gonna have a lot of disappointed women.

    Not future tense, but present and past tense. It’s part of the Epiphany phase of AF-BB; when the number 3-0 looms up in a woman’s windshield of life, and her 20’s are in the rearview mirror, suddenly (and mysteriously, heh…) she can “see” men who aren’t in the top 20%. She settles for a beta. And has a child or two.

    And 7 to 10 years later, or when the youngest is 4 or so years of age, she finds herself inexplicably not haaaaaaapy…

    Because she settled for less than the top 20%. Duh. What happens next depends on a number of variables…

  71. SJF: “You’ve read “The Way of Men” by Jack Donovan?
    He illustrates your description in the chapter entitled “The Bonobo Masturbation Society”
    Here is that chapter:

    Thanks for the link. That was a sobering read. I haven’t read The Way of Men yet, but I do have the book.

  72. zomg it’s a wild Rollo! 😮

    a) OKCupid, a site where people go to hook up, is based far more on attraction than the real world.
    b) Women definitely find less men attractive than vice versa, but if given the choice of their ideal woman, nearly all men would select a woman that would be in the top 20% of attractiveness. I’m not gonna go on pornhub, but I know some men like gross stuff like very fat girls or weirder stuff, but thats a minority i think. Most likely an insignificant minority (nods)

    So yes, pareto principle for attraction is seen in men and women. The only difference I guess is that men are more likely to settle for someone outside the 20%.

    Arriving at a monogamous state has always been seen as the correct goal. It is the model that society has adapted over time because it guarantees stability. I think that was one of the points of the video Tom posted. I know men don’t want monogamy in general, thats another topic..

  73. a) OKCupid, a site where people go to hook up, is based far more on attraction than the real world.

    How do you know that to be true, outside of your own solipsism, dearie?

    What’s your data set look like, your blue-balled boyfriend, some 3-way hookups, etc.?

  74. @AR

    Not future tense, but present and past tense.

    Of course.

    Also, keep in mind you don’t need that book to see some of what okcupid can see with their massive sample size. Their blog posted one of their most telling findings a while back. It completely supports Rollo’s assertion of:

    Men’s arousal cues for women are far more static and far more stringent than women’s are for men.

    TL;DR: men rating the attractiveness of women show a bell curve where 50% fall in unattractive, 50% in attractive. Women rating men show a curve where upwards of 80% of men are straight up unattractive.

  75. Emilyslut
    b) Women definitely find less men attractive than vice versa,

    No, dearie, women find fewer men attractive than vice versa, because humans are discrete objects.

    but if given the choice of their ideal woman, nearly all men would select a woman that would be in the top 20% of attractiveness.

    How do you know that to be true, outside of your own solipsism, dearie?
    What’s your data set look like, again?

  76. a) OKCupid, a site where people go to hook up, is based far more on attraction than the real world.

    lol, if I could count the number of okcupid profiles with “NO HOOKUPS”….

  77. Emilyslut, the philosophy major
    Arriving at a monogamous state has always been seen as the correct goal.

    “Always” means “for all time”. So in your very educated opinion, there have never been any civilizations that practiced polygamy? Really?

    It is the model that society has adapted over time because it guarantees stability

    China is thousands of years old, and for long stretches of that time (centuries in some dynasties) very stable. Can you guess what the term “second wife” means?

    Now, as it happens, I believe that an industrial civilization is an outgrowth of certain forms of monogamy. But I could be wrong.

  78. @Sun Wukong:

    Excellent, I was just trawling for that very posting of OKCupid, it is essentially a few pages from the book Dataclysm. A fine demonstration of the difference between male and female attraction triggers, not to mention hypergamy.

  79. My bad. it’s been seen as the correct goal for the west since the Catholic Church formed. And the rest of the world adopted it once they realized it’s the most stable model.

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