There are many attitudinal and subtle behavior traits that manifest in men who are presented with options or enjoy even casual social proof. I’m not sure a lot of guys really realize just how sensitive women are to those ‘tells’. You will do things, say things, without thinking about them that indicate on a limbic level what you believe about yourself. Women have evolved to perceive the smallest cues and subtlest of hints – to the point it’s a subconscious subroutine running in their background processing of information about you when they’re not even cognitively aware of it.
They may not be able to consciously put a finger on it, but on some level of consciousness these tells are informing a woman’s limbic understanding of your SMV.
I’ve gone back and forth about covert communications vs. overt communications on this blog over the years. There is a certain school of Game that teaches a bold, direct action wherein a guy overtly inserts himself into that woman’s immediate experience and I can certainly see the merits of it.
Law 28
Enter into action with boldnessIf you are unsure of a course of action, do not attempt it. Your doubts and hesitations will infect your execution. Timidity is dangerous: better to enter with boldness. Any mistakes you commit through audacity are easily corrected with more audacity. Everyone admires the bold; no one honors the timid.
There is a certain gravitas that accompanies an extroverted approach with women, the trick is not coming off as a ‘try hard’ and overplaying it, thereby overtly confirming your following a script. When you don’t believe it’s you it’s a pretty good bet she doesn’t either.
A lot of proponents of this in-your-face approach will tell you it’s the only way a “real” man should interact with women; boldly and confidently, and entirely on his terms. And while I agree with this, how you go about effecting that can vary depending on context and condition.
When a guy is initially establishing Frame and drawing the woman (women) of his choosing into his reality, that overt, direct approach can be the deciding factor for a woman’s acquiescing to his Frame. Caught up in the moment (such as an ‘insta-date’ or an encounter she wasn’t expecting) and charging her with an immediate rush of endorphins, a woman’s Hypergamous filtering process gets overridden by that excitement. This is the same principle operating behind planning dates with an excitement factor involved (rock climbing, sky diving, are both exaggerations, but you get the idea) – an emotional attachment paired with an endorphin rush associates that ‘feeling’ with you.
There’s a tendency I think for Red Pill aware men to view women’s Hypergamous / Solipsistic natures as hinderances to men effecting their own interests with them. Shit tests, filtering, sexual prospect comparison and a whole host of other conscious and subconscious vetting inherent to women seems like an insufferable waste of effort for men. However, while Hypergamy may define the rules of the game it’s important for men to understand how to work it to their advantage in both a direct approach and in understanding the subtle filtering that women do.
I’ve read more than a few ‘dating gurus’ define this “being direct with her” approach as the only legitimate form of Game. A Real Man® sees what he wants and goes out and boldly gets it. The problem is that this attitude gets tied to The Male Catch 22 and any derivation is compared with unmanliness.
As I said, while I agree there’s merit to this directness, it shouldn’t be done at the cost of understanding how women subconsciously vet and filter to better discern a man’s (perceptively) true sexual market value to her – as well as how she contrasts his SMV to her self-perceived SMV. There is nothing “unmanly” about having a curiosity for how the female mind works and then using that understanding to your advantage.
Maintaining Frame
It’s one thing to draw that woman into your reality and your psychological Frame, it’s another to maintain this Frame once she’s stepped into it.
I went into some of the subtle ‘tells’ about a man’s SMV in Alpha Tells and Beta Tells and the subcommunication messaging that transfers between men and women. In these posts I described the process beneath those tells and what’s being communicated in them. One thing I believe even Red Pill aware men subscribe to is the idea that their Frame can only be maintained by the same overt and bluntly direct means that helped them create it.
This is the root of men’s initial anxiety of having to upkeep their Red Pill “act”; “Red Pill is impossible to float all the time! What? Am I expected to Game my LTR forever?” The answer of course is internalizing Red Pill awareness into one’s personality, but one thing that also goes along with that is the manifesting of behaviors that help maintain your Frame.
Women pick up on behavioral cues, attitude, how things affect you, how you apply yourself to a task, how you deal with adversity and certainly the interplay you engage in with her while playing with her. If you’re thinking that women wanting men who Just Get It is all direct Game and all above board you need to reconsider that quite a bit of women’s filtering occurs when you’re not ‘on‘ and she’s casually picking up on your behavioral cues.
She want’s you to ‘get it’ on your own, without having to be told how. That initiative and the experience needed to have had developed it makes you a Man worth competing for. Women despise a man who needs to be told to be dominant. Overtly relating this to a guy entirely defeats his credibility as a genuinely dominant male. The guy she wants to fuck is dominant because that’s ‘the way he is’ instead of who she had to tell him to be.
Observing the process will change it. This is the root function of every shit test ever devised by a woman. If masculinity has to be explained to a man, he’s not the man for her.
Much of a woman’s vetting process takes place in her hindbrain. It’s very easy for most guys in western(ized) culture to presume that hot, but vapid, women are too oblivious to really pay much attention to this process. Lost in their hedonism and self-affirmations it’s easy to believe that those processes aren’t as influential in hook-ups as they might be in a long term arrangement, but trust that even though they might be under the surface they are being processed.
Mindset
It’s a Tomassi Maxim now, but bears repeating; Alpha is a mindset, not a demographic. I’ve explained what I mean by this on many occasions, but when it comes to what I consider the abstraction that is Alpha it can primarily be reduced to a particular mindset of masculine dominance and confidence.
I wont belabor this here again, but suffice to say that while I believe there is a natural component to it, I do think that to varying degrees this Alpha mindset, or something approaching it, is a learnable state for men. That said, I also think men need to use caution when when evaluating how to go about cultivating and internalizing this mindset.
It’s very easy to get caught up in the hope for a magic solution to your problems in life. There’s no shortage of motivational speakers and charismatic ‘self-help’ gurus ready to sell you a book, or a sermon, or some self-styled social movement promising to show you how to develop this “winners’ mindset”. It’s important to bear in mind that any mindset you learn is only as legitimate as the realities that inform it.
A lot of hate directed at PUAs, motivational speakers, pastors or even your parents can be traced back to their failings in understanding simple evidential realities. Their hopeful formulas for your success end up being frustrations and anxieties when they’ve proven to fail you because you invest yourself in part, or in whole, in them.
Much of what constitutes Blue Pill conditioning is founded in the same misgivings. It’s very easy to hype up and sensationalize Blue Pill idealisms in ‘optimism’ soaked rhetorics, but these hopes are easily dispelled with a Red Pill aware lens. That’s one reason the Red Pill can be bitter – it’s a real buzz kill when you’re high on Blue Pill optimism.
The primary reason I’ve always been reluctant to be prescriptive with Red Pill awareness in practice is because I’ve always believed that the Red Pill is never going to be one size fits all. While Red Pill truths are universal, their application is subjective to the man employing them. How he develops the mindset that best serves him is contextual to his own circumstance.
That said, I think a pragmatic approach based on Red Pill awareness and the fundaments that make it up would serve men best in developing a Red Pill mindset that works for him. You might think that in light of my recent Purple Pill post that I’m alluding to the ‘coaches’ and re-definers of the Red Pill in all this, but lots of “Red Pill” men are actually Purple Pill hoping that some of the old rules might still apply.
While I emphatically recognize the power of positive thought in altering one’s mindset and changing the course of one’s life, I also understand that zeal for change needs to be tempered with a healthy skepticism. If you find yourself being swept up in a tide of super-optimism that’s the time to question the foundations of it. Positive, motivational memes can become clichéd aphorisms when those foundations are proven to be false.
@rocketroll Waiting for a virgin to come to grips with reality and for them to come out of the bathroom to face a guy they don’t even know and who is going to fuck them silly is what its all about. you seem confused by the virgin concept: She’s going thru a divorce, has 2 kids both young … meanwhile the common sense virgin writes: Can’t face that YOUR view of the world isn’t held by everyone actually I do know that your stupid view is firmly held by you, and by some others like you, and you will continue… Read more »
@ keyser
What about the 1ww?
Were they Muslims?
Lol, most of the Turks were and lots of Bulgarians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I
Haven’t you heard of Lawrence of Arabia?
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/true-story-lawrence-arabia-180951857/?no-ist
But you haven’t even answered me. My points stand.
Dude, you are getting nowhere fast.
@Anonymous Reader
The lessons of dog training carry over to human interactions. “Don’t show fear or doubt” is one of the first.
@natural nut adsgamer.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=abI8cdLvJp8
Wow, I noticed in real life two weeks ago that people were really starting to get wound up to be bat-shit anxious and crazy for the holiday season, but today’s posts really proves it with all the contentiousness. So I will join in and be contentious. “Rocket, why do you prefer prostitutes over the genuine desire of a woman who is into fucking you unsolicited? Granted, you’ll pay for sex in some form or another regardless of how you go about it ……. if you’d say it’s because it’s a simpler matter than to hope you can play Alpha well… Read more »
@Anonymous Reader
How legit is Cesar Millan’s attitude, frame and tactics with canines? Did/do they always work? Are there dogs that are refractory to his Game?
Are the criticisms of Millan such as in the Wikipedia article under “Reception” valid or nonsense?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Millan
Are there significant parallels to Frame and Game in human inter-sexual relationships? You would think he would be good with woman. I’m sure he caused a few wet panties in his female clients as he handled their canines.
And what about the idea that Frame is not power with dogs?
Just curious.
Well, things got on a very different track here. But thanks for the responses. @IAS re: ‘sounds like you’re her beta orbiter’: I once had difficulty distinguishing this sort of thing myself (clearly, since I’ve been one before lol). But that’s not the case here, and I’ll explain why since it’s illustrative. a) Did you happen to see the posts I made a month or two back about ‘green light/ red light’ faces? Basically my point was that women have certain things they do when they’re trying to keep a beta orbiter on the hook , as opposed to when… Read more »
In my mention of contentiousness earlier, contentiousness is good. Debate is good. For all of us engaged in red pill flavored debates such as in this thread, and in particular the “Don’t Hate the Beta thread, there is an excellent perspective on this idea of debates about applying the red pill by Illimitable Man posted today. Go read it here: http://illimitablemen.com/2015/11/30/applying-the-red-pill-an-analysis/ Here are some snippets/nuggets of thought (re: spelling, he’s British): Great minds often pick holes in one another’s views, come to understand one another better, but do not change their position. To shift position, a view has to be… Read more »
@ Forge
Also, if you desexualize (implying or noticing that the woman is sexualizing) and she giggles, then you have passed a beta shit test. If her sexualization is covert and strong (something like dancing close and pressing her boob against your chest while you’re dancing), then she sees you as being sexually attractive. A woman who is sexually attracted to a man will seek physical contact with him as long as her ASD isn’t active.
@ Forge
instead of trying to make ME nervous. She allowed me to dictate the frame
It’s quite possible for you to be a little nervous, shy, etc. and maintain frame. Expect frame tests, though, because your subcomms will be inconsistent.
Huh, no idea why the pics don’t work. Thought I had that issue nailed. Ah well, click for examples. Hey @Scribblerg, thanks for your breakdown. “– I think she’s trying to qualify you as pure short term AF but there some bit of the “nice guy” left in you so she can’t quite put you in that box. I notice that your (vivid and interesting) descriptions of her seem to see her as passive/reactive versus having full agency. I think you missed several opportunities to make the interaction much more sexual where she could be free to express her desires… Read more »
@asd “Also, if you desexualize (implying or noticing that the woman is sexualizing) and she giggles, then you have passed a beta shit test.” Ya that’s classic shit. Push away when she tries to sexualize. It flips the script, makes you non-needy, and drives it into her forebrain that she’s being ‘bad.’ It makes them chase like crazy. If she’s offended by your insinuation, that’s a serious beta tell. “A woman who is sexually attracted to a man will seek physical contact with him as long as her ASD isn’t active.” My example above was illustrating how a woman acts… Read more »
How legit is Cesar Millan’s attitude, frame and tactics with canines? Did/do they always work? Are there dogs that are refractory to his Game? I got no clue, barely ever heard of him, never read any of his books or viewed any of his vids and… Are the criticisms of Millan such as in the Wikipedia article under “Reception” valid or nonsense? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Millan …until now I did not know about the wiki page. Dunno about his personal life either. And what about the idea that Frame is not power with dogs? I don’t buy that. So far as I can… Read more »
@redlight “actually I do know that your stupid view is firmly held by you, and by some others like you, and you will continue to hold this view regardless of what is posted here or on r/theredpill. I suggest you take your stupid view and shove it on an idiotic blog of your own” Thanks RL, glad to know that my view (which is working for me) is stupid and that I should “shove it”. And also didn’t know that having a blog made my views more important that someone else’s. You got a blog ? Does it make a… Read more »
@ScribblerG Heheh, I noticed that you are like Baltasar Gracian. You feel undying hatred for human folly. In your writings you insist on the perfectability of man and the capacity of goodness (no matter what anyone else says otherwise about ScribblerG), assisted by art to triumph over evil. Perfection depends not upon religious revelation but upon human resources and industry: attentiveness, mastery of one’s emotions and other forms of prudence. St. Ignatious of Loyola (Ed. those Jesuits sure were secular) said “Use human means as though divine ones didn’t exist, and divine means as though there were no human ones.”… Read more »
@Rocket
You either never read any of my comments or can’t comprehend them.
I’ve never uttered a butt-hurt comment in the last 18 months (And if I did it was either accidental or I was drunk). But then again I consider myself and try to keep myself at or above the 93rd percentile of men.
I’m a greater beta and lesser alpha, always striving. Don’t mind not being an uber Alpha, I have a family to maintain.
Are you really only 5’5″?
Also rocket-man,
5’6 and I have this 6″3 girl shes probably a 9 and a half atleast on my scale………down to go . and im broke as shit and she knows it and im staying with my parents and my life sucks but is awesome at the same time…. idk. motivation for people i guess. but i think im like god basically so whoop.
“You either never read any of my comments or can’t comprehend them.”
And I’m having a good deal of trouble matching up what he says Rollo says with what Rollo says.
“And I’m having a good deal of trouble matching up what he says Rollo says with what Rollo says.”
I spoke with Rocket once and didn’t dislike him. His stuff about escorts as an option may be functional, to other men. But he seems very defined by pain that isn’t current.
The trick is not minding that it hurts.
scribblerg November 29th, 2015 at 3:13 pm You are absolutely right about Citizens United. 1. Individuals have the right of Free Speech 2. Individuals do not lose that right when they become/join a collective. 3. If you don’t like the politics of the people you work for – work for some one else Where it all gets tricky is: who decides what is political speech and what is product advertising? Citizens Unites says the Government can’t make those decisions. But OK. You (as in not scribblerg) are against Citizens United. Please tell me – Who Decides? John Entwhistle? Pete Townsend?… Read more »
Could some one explain “SB” ? I’m new here and don’t get the meaning.
A Definite Beta Guy
November 27th, 2015 at 6:42 pm
OH. Yeah. The Packers lost. At Green Bay. A very good (and rare) day in Bear country.
SJF
November 28th, 2015 at 9:52 am
re: addiction
It is a LOT simpler than what you quoted describes.
Addiction is a response to pain.
People in chronic pain chronically take pain relievers.
You want to fix “addiction” ? First fix the pain.
theasdgamer
November 29th, 2015 at 3:14 pm
Modern steel mills are inherently big business.
=====================
The whole crusade you champion assumes that people don’t think. If that is the problem such crusades can only make things worse.
“We are against big business” – All of them? Some of them? And if only some how do you decide which ones are approved and which are condemned? How do you judge?
theasdgamer November 29th, 2015 at 3:14 pm The new 3D printing industry looks like it could turn into a run around Big Business. The 3D printing industry is so dependent on big business it is not even funny. Steel Plastic Aluminum Insulated Wire PCBs Semiconductors Machine tools etc. This is a case of the environment is so ubiquitous that it is not even noticed. Also – 3D printing is slow. Good for prototypes and short run stuff. ============================== BTW AH was brought up Catholic. Note: I was brought up Jewish. It never quite leaves you. These days I’m more of… Read more »
@ Rocket If you’re 5-5, its pretty much impossible. Back when I was 14, I hit puberty and kissed two girls the same year–both pretty (HB8 & HB7–the HB7 introduced me to French kissing). I was 5’4″ tall. When I was 15, I was dropping panties and still 5’4″. So, lack of height was never a problem for me. I was bold enough to approach women and that made up for a lot. I never waited for IOIs. That is key if you’re short or ugly. There were no PUA sites back then to learn from. It was harder to… Read more »
@ Simon The 3D printing industry is so dependent on big business it is not even funny. Sure, but that’s irrelevant to trends. BTW AH was brought up Catholic. People change. AH as dictator wasn’t trying to convert people to Catholicism. What AH was brought up as was irrelevant to the discussion. But OK. You (as in not scribblerg) are against Citizens United. Please tell me – Who Decides? John Entwhistle? Pete Townsend? You? We put it to a vote? We put it to a jury? A judge? I favor “No Law”. I wish it were that easy, but 800… Read more »
@ Simon
Could some one explain “SB” ? I’m new here and don’t get the meaning.
Sugar Baby–an arrangement
theasdgamer November 30th, 2015 at 7:53 am The trouble with caging the gorilla is that you will put me in the same cage. Speech codes have a way of morphing. Look at what is going on in the college set. No law. (is supposed to be the rule – I’ll stick with that thank you very much) Here is how it usually goes: 1. Only the worst actors 2. Only the bad actors 3. Some of the good actors 4. You must all be very good What is the cut off? Amount of capital? Number of employees? Profit making intent?… Read more »
“The 3D printing industry is so dependent on big business it is not even funny.” For the raw materials, sure. But 3D printers will change a lot of things. No reason for a Nike sweat shop in the DPRK (or wherever) when one can print a pair of shoes, customed to one’s foot, at home. Same for clothing, tools, and a lot lot more. I already print airsoft gun parts and cell phone covers out of ours. It will have a major impact on intellectual property rights, those will be hard to protect. 3D tech is now about where computer… Read more »
“You want to fix “addiction” ? First fix the pain.” Interesting that there is another way to fix addiction. A workaround.(A workaround is a bypass of a recognized problem in a system. A workaround is typically a temporary fix that implies that a genuine solution to the problem is needed.) That workaround to pain being what Forge just mentioned: Not minding the pain. Some psychic pains are so etched into place because they were imprinted during childhood and adolescence and in effect become hardwired into personalities. Some chronic physical pains are not not fixable in a timely fashion. The reasons… Read more »
And a lot of the top socialists are Jewish. You all need to clean up your act. Jews rise to the top in what ever field they enter. It has been that way for quite some time. The IQ difference is about 1 Standard Deviation. Where it makes a difference is in the upper tails. I’d have to look up the actual numbers but it is something like 10X higher proportion at IQ 180. To counter the socialists I give you Milton Friedman and Mieses. And quite a few others. Do something about it? We could kill the environment they… Read more »
“Marc Lewis’ Biology of Desire points to the workaround to addiction is in distraction. Distraction by other dopamine inputs besides the primary addictive one, allows the newer, more virtuous dopamine generators to flow around the rut dug by the primary addictive substance. And because the brain is neuroplastic, it can rewire around the sole pathway (deep rut) of the addictive substance.” That’s interesting, SJF. I’ve never read this book, and I don’t have any chemical dependencies, but I do have an addicting personality. I’ve found it’s kind of like a mental “hiccup” (or nervous tick). I form addictions via habit… Read more »
@Liz
Off topic, I need some internet resources similar to the manosphere for men for a 54 year old single female. Perhaps a blog or forum. My wife’s sister in law (from my wife’s deceased brother) was over for Thanksgiving. She’s pretty wise and needs some guidance and internet resources that are female-centric into the nature of men and women (similar to red pill for men). Something not so Feminitstic-Equalist, she subscribes to complementarianism. And she is considerably spiritual in nature but eminently logical ( she subscribes to some off-the-beaten path thing called The Book of Urantia)
LOL addicting personality…meant to say addictive personality above.
“Off topic, I need some internet resources similar to the manosphere for men for a 54 year old single female.”
Most of the forums I frequent are “married mom” ones, but there’s one I know of that might apply.
Bloom’s forum:
http://notesfromaredpillgirl.com
I like Bloom. 🙂
Maybe it’s my ego, but this post almost seems like it was written for/about me based on my FR last post. First, an update. Not much actually happening, but that in and of itself has given me stuff to think about, particularly about what my attitude is about certain things, and how it needs to change. It’s been close to two weeks since initial encounter with former co-worker and our email exchange. I have not emailed her again after initial reply I sent. Thinking on it, Forge was definitely correct; it was too bland and too much of what I… Read more »
” I’ve had Jewish friends who had Christmas trees . . .”
“Christmas” trees are not Christian, they are Germanic, dating to thousands of years BC. “Easter” eggs are not Christian either, but they are at least Mesopotamian and may even date back to before Out of Africa, at the very least tens of thousands years old.
@SJF : in Reddit there is a sub called Red Pill Women, I think that is geared towards strategies for getting a RP “Alpha Bucks” (someone like you, Alpha but willing to commit to the right woman). Not being a woman I never looked much into it, but maybe it is good for your wife’s sister in law.
@ Simon
Let me repeat:
You all need to clean up your act.
No police state. Police your own community. Jewish criminals are treated severely because Jews make sure that it happens.
The biggest problem is that something like 90% of Jews are progressives/socialists. Kind of hard to do the policing thing. I don’t envy you.
@ Simon
It is like abortion. If you intend to outlaw it you will need vagina police.
This is silly. Abortion was outlawed for many years. There were no vagina police.
@ Simon
The biggest problem with outlawing abortion is that it’s making a special case out of something that ought not to be a special case. Just treat the killing of infants like any other murder.
@SJF “You either never read any of my comments or can’t comprehend them.” “Are you really only 5’5″?” Pot meet kettle. I never said I was 5-5. I said that IF SOMEONE were 5-5 then it would be pretty much impossible. “I’m a greater beta and lesser alpha, always striving. Don’t mind not being an uber Alpha.” I’m in the same boat … greater beta/less alpha … I suspect that most of us here are. That is one of the reasons its so frustrating for me. I’d say I’m in the upper 80-90th percentile so given Normal patriarchal society throughout… Read more »
@redlight November 29th, 2015 at 7:57 pm @rocketroll Waiting for a virgin to come to grips with reality and for them to come out of the bathroom to face a guy they don’t even know and who is going to fuck them silly is what its all about. She’s going thru a divorce, has 2 kids both young … “you seem confused by the virgin concept:” No, you seemed to forget that I said this was a first time SB; she had never done this before. We had already discussed what her allowance would be; so she knew she was… Read more »
@Rollo – re: alpha and context. What you are really saying is that “alpha” is a social status convoked on a person by others and that in any social setting, context is decisive. It’s also true that trying to categorize men as either alpha or beta is quite limiting as the concept barely applies to even wolves and falls apart when looked at too closely wrt humans. Just consider YaReally’s commentary. Is he a top alpha guy? No, he just has learned how to demonstrate high value in ways that tickle the hindbrain of women to see him as a… Read more »
@ Rocket Your friends and your sugarbabies accept you in spite of your high-horse intelligence. Not because of it. You are in the Anger phase of the Five Stages of Unplugging. You will find that if you can work your way through to Acceptance, you will have more emotional intelligence and up your Emotional Quotient to be better at game. It will free you up from your emotional shackles and your masculine self improvement will flow better. Yes, you do have to dumb yourself down. It is a very apt skill. And you can do it without looking like a… Read more »
@redlight, @rocket The biggest problem is that we take women AND ourselves way too seriously. Men think that they have to perform, to be confident, to be TOP ALPHA, have six pack…to be able to score hot pussy. “Cos..women loove confident superguys. And of course only top, super rational, alpha guys are allowed to fuck those super, heavenly chicks. Than we see this balding guy with rotten teeth with hottie. Ok, so our male hamster start spining and producing shit like…..he must have money, big dick, fame, you name it. He must be WORTHY of her! He certainly must have… Read more »
@Rocket – Denial is not a river in Egypt. You are here because whores aren’t good enough for you, and you know it. You can bullshit others and even yourself, but you can’t get away with it here. I get it – it’s a compromise and as I said in my comment I’ve done it and it can be nice sometimes. But it’s nothing like fucking a woman who is really into you. It’s nothing like being actually desired. I don’t dislike you, fyi. You express yourself well and have an interesting take on things but you go off the… Read more »
@ASD and Keyser – I didn’t respond to anything you two have to say on the political front because both of you are operating from vast ignorance – whether you realize it or not. As SJF noted, I have a hatred for this kind of bloviating and ill-considered POV. You guys will notice there are lots of topics that I don’t comment on because I don’t possess expertise in those areas. But when it comes to history, economics and politics, well, I have 40 years of interest in the topic. The first book I read on serious politics was Alexander… Read more »
@ SJF “Your friends and your sugarbabies accept you in spite of your high-horse intelligence. Not because of it.” Oh most definitely; I know this. Having an high IQ is definitely a handicap when it comes to being social. It took me swallowing the Red Pill to realize that I’d surrounded myself with likewise people … coworkers, friends, even spouse. And I’d done it for so long that I didn’t know how to relate to “average” people anymore. In addition, post divorce I avoided women for several years; given that I was married for a long time (10+ yrs) …… Read more »
@M. Simon -You need to read The Biology of Desire as your ideas about addiction are a good starting point, but very limited. Suffering/pain being the place addicts are in and seeking pleasure as what they are doing is a good initial realization, but it’s a very incomplete view. Given your interest in neuroscience and behavior I think you’d love the book and I’m eager to hear your thoughts on it. As for “no law” all I can say is have you read Hobbes, and also perhaps Locke’s Second Treatise? Have you read Anarchy, State and Utopia by Robert Nozick?… Read more »
Liz That’s interesting, SJF. I’ve never read this book, and I don’t have any chemical dependencies, but I do have an addicting personality. I’ve found it’s kind of like a mental “hiccup” (or nervous tick). I form addictions via habit pattern and association. That appears to be a major factor in addiction. You should read the book. I’m almost finished and probably will re-read it, something I generally do not do. So, for instance, if every morning I smoke a cigarette while reading blogs online (or reading the paper, or whatever my routine is), I will start to crave that… Read more »
@Seraph Thanks for the update! “Now, I plan to follow Forge’s advice and not email her as I said I would and wait a few weeks. If I did put myself in the Beta slot with that reply somehow, then I feel being unpredictable and absent can only help get me out of that if possible. If I am NOT in that slot, then delaying won’t hurt me either, so fuck it!” Sounds good. You’re likely dealing with a low interest level from her currently, so the key is to get face-to-face time to change that impression. By waiting you… Read more »
@Rocket – The comments on IQ are interesting. I possess a genius IQ and it took me a long time to get comfortable with that. I used to only socialize with other “smart” people too as an adaptive strategy, but over time I realized how limiting that is. An experience I had changed my views on my intelligence. I worked for a company that was filled with geniuses and intellectuals and highly educated people – out of 200 folks there were at least 70 PhDs. I was being considered for a significant promotion into management and they had a practice… Read more »
@Forge – Holy shit, I do compliance tests without even realizing it. It’s actually a key part of how I establish dominance with women. It’s funny, you don’t even have to be too polite about it and can even manhandle a woman a bit to get compliance (very subtle line between this and abuse). They go into a different state, it’s very notable. I remember a woman telling me how putting her in line when she would act out was a huge turn on for her, and that “No man has ever spoken to me that way” (in an approving… Read more »
@ scribbler
I’m trying to share hard won knowledge with you
Like AH being a catholic dictator, lol. So much you know just ain’t so. Maybe you forgot. I used to research and argue this shit, too. I was obsessive about it. Autistic and all. No more.
For example, ASD ignored my dozens of cites of Christian wars and violence after I took the time to collect them for him
Lol, the point was whether Christianity taught that Christians were supposed to wage war; it was a counterpoint to Islam which in fact does teach that muslims are supposed to wage war. Islam calls it “jihad”. So you either you didn’t understand the conversational issues or you tried to divert the convo as a sleazy debate tactic.
If you’re so smart, with all your verbal intel and shit, why can’t you follow the conversational thread?
Re: intelligence. Girls will say about me that I seem very smart, but that i don’t make them feel dumb. This seems to be a potent combination wrt drawing people to you. The way it’s done is I take a strong interest in helping people understand things. If they don’t know something, I have the attitude that this is exciting bc I get to teach them something cool, rather than looking down on them for it. If they don’t understand it one way I try another. Always done with compassionate attention to the person and their state. No condescension. It… Read more »
“.. greater beta/less alpha … I suspect that most of us here are. ”
: )
Lulz.
“greater beta / lesser alpha”
how do you even describe this in terms that makes sense?
A guy who routinely stays in his frame but occasionally stumbles in his interactions with women because of his long-standing blue-pill indoctrinations and stubborn ego investments?
Forge: “Girls will say about me that I seem very smart, but that i don’t make them feel dumb. This seems to be a potent combination wrt drawing people to you.”
Yes. I think this is the formula for something many would refer to as charisma. There aren’t a lot of charismatic dumbasses. It requires intelligence.
@ Rollo Tomassi Can you write a post about how your old girlfriends turned out? (hit the wall and such, or not?) That would be something to laugh at. I ask this because as a young guy I now see my ex-girlfriends hit the wall. Some good, others bad. They even speed it up with a lifestyle of alcohol and smoking. What I am curious about is the amount of contact old lovers try to establish years later and if this confirms the reality of the transition- and securityphase where they see you as some kind of “last resort” guy.… Read more »
@Merciless:
http://therationalmale.com/2011/12/12/protracted-smv/
scribblerg November 30th, 2015 at 11:17 am I hold my “no law” view for a number of reasons. But the main one is regulatory capture. And who has the means to do that? The entities being regulated. Suppose some SJW objects to one of Rollo’s books. It is published by a corporation. Thus it is corporate speech. Censor it. Far fetched? Yes. But not very. I’d much rather speech was subject to “no law”. Then the supreme Court can’t twist logic into a pretzel to ban what Rollo has said. ==================== As to reading the book you suggest. I have… Read more »
@Anon Reader ” You know, all the warrior teachings from around the planet in a way distill to that. More prosaically, as others have explained, it’s like getting a dog. I wound up with a half stray a few years back, the dog books all say not to do that. Eh. Dog or bitch, the canine brain is wired to follow the pack leader. Dogs can’t speak human. They can’t think like humans. So a man has to learn to “speak dog”. That means either I’m the pack leader and the dog submits, or the dog will try to become… Read more »
Anonymous Reader November 30th, 2015 at 11:29 am The brain mechanism to suppress desire does not get tired. What is in fact happening is that suppressing the desire for pain relief does not suppress the pain. You fix the pain and the need for pain relief goes away. No suppression required. ================================== And for those who brought it up. Please describe an addictive personality. What are the indicators? I have been asking this question for going on 15 years. I have never had a satisfactory answer. I usually get back circular logic. “An addictive personality is a personality subject to… Read more »
As to reading the book you suggest. I have no means to acquire such an object.
Really? Remarkable. I’m skeptical.
“And for those who brought it up. Please describe an addictive personality. What are the indicators? I have been asking this question for going on 15 years. I have never had a satisfactory answer. I usually get back circular logic. “An addictive personality is a personality subject to addiction.”
I’d say an addictive personality is a personality that becomes more easily fixated on (substances, behavior patterns, whatnot) than the average person.
It could be a good addiction (example: exercise) or a bad one (examples: alcohol, smokes, wasting time on the internet, ect).
Re: addictive drugs
http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/heroin/what-are-long-term-effects-heroin-use
I’ve known quite a few heroin addicts and opiates are very addictive dependent on strength and term of usage.
I have deteriorating/degenerative disc issues with my back and my doc was concerned about the length of time I was using opiate pain meds.
Long term usage of opiates especially can alter the perception of pain. Sometimes, even after the cause of pain has been healed, the perception of continued pain can/will remain, causing dependence.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/brain-changes-in-an-addict-make-it-hard-to-resist-heroin-and-similar-drugs/2014/02/14/dcc91c5e-9366-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html
@M Simon There are no addictive personalities. There are no addictive drugs. There is only pain and pain relief. While that does show a feedback mechanism that leads to addictive behavior, such behavior can be sustained after the removal of pain through the formation of the habit. Addictions are habits that are pathological. It is healthy to seek relief from pain. It is unhealthy to continue the pain reliever after the pain is gone yet some people do so out of habit. This is what’s generally viewed as “addiction” in my experience. It’s a pathological habit, and it doesn’t just… Read more »
scribblerg November 30th, 2015 at 11:17 am Most of our difficulties these days are not due to an excess of anarchy. They are due to an excess of laws. There are so many that it has been estimated that a person commits 3 felonies a day. Effortlessly. Dictatorship assumes laws and enforcers will bring people into line. What it actually does is create a black market for what is prohibited. Look at the old Soviet Union. People had two personalities. One they exhibited to relatives and people they trusted. Another for public consumption. It in fact collapsed when the enforcement… Read more »
Sun Wukong November 30th, 2015 at 5:14 pm Habits unsupported by a biological mechanism are not difficult to break. Relapse happens when the underlying cause remains. You can detox a person from heroin in about 2 weeks. It is done all the time by our Drug Rehab industry. What the industry does not deal with is the underlying pain. Why should they? A relapsed “addict” is good for another round of treatment. Very profitable. What we are dealing with here is a very elaborate con. Maybe 100 years ago it wasn’t a con because the knowledge base was insufficient. It… Read more »
M. Simon The brain mechanism to suppress desire does not get tired. What is in fact happening is that suppressing the desire for pain relief does not suppress the pain. You fix the pain and the need for pain relief goes away. No suppression required. Excerpt from the book you apparently cannot find, The Biology of Desire pp. 156 – 157 on the “horse and rider” view of psychology / brain action, any typos mine, emphasis is mine as well as bold: Cognitive control is a regulating signal that emerges from many parts of the brain and fans out to… Read more »
@M Simon
Uh… all habits have a biological component by definition. They’re the product of reinforcement of particular neural pathway in the brain. That’s why they’re so damned hard to change.
Well, I closed the italics too soon. For those interested, the book excerpt is all of the italics plus the plain text down to Ego fatique in the 3rd paragraph from the bottom. Sun Wukong +1 Neuroplasticity is a fact of the brain, and one of the strong arguments made in Desire this: learning is neuroplasticity in action, to claim that “brain changes” equals “addiction” is to label learning as “addiction”. In fact, the state of “being in love” clearly involves physical changes in the brain – is love an “addiction”? This demonstrates the fallacy of the “addiction as disease”… Read more »
TIny baby Field Report. Just got back from a branch bank where I had a bit of business to conduct, I entered the bank in a cheerful and masculine frame, determined to chat up anyone I met. There was a new 20-something teller with a pretty good blonde dye job who started off being friendly with me in a polite manner. She had to spend some time facing away from me, but peeked over her shoulder a time or two to see if I was looking at her – yes, dearie, you’re quite pleasant to look at. There was an… Read more »
Eye contact observation: I haven’t made a real study of it so maybe I’m totally wrong, but casually it seems to me the younger Millennial men, the 20 somethings, really don’t do eye contact very much. Not to other men, not to women.
Maybe that’s why these young women respond so strongly to it?
Anon Reader, ” Eye contact observation: I haven’t made a real study of it so maybe I’m totally wrong, but casually it seems to me the younger Millennial men, the 20 somethings, really don’t do eye contact very much. Not to other men, not to women. Maybe that’s why these young women respond so strongly to it?” I’ve noticed this also quite routinely. I’m not sure why it is that a majority of 20 somethings shy away from direct eye contact, but it can be frustrating for me and I can only imagine what it does ( or doesn’t do… Read more »
A bit of an off topic question, but when a girl gets drunk does this turn her hypergamy filters ‘off’ as girls are more approachable and easy to fuck even for lower value men when they are drunk. And doesn’t this put them at risk if they do choose to go out and drink.. Why would they do it as opposed to going out and being in control.
” . . . it can be frustrating for me . . .”
On the other hand, it’s an auto-AMOG for us more “mature” men.
“Why would they do it as opposed to going out and being in control.”
Because they want to get laid.
@Paul
How could any question related to women, hypergamy, etc be off topic here? 😛
Paul, Plausible deniability. Hypergamy is a real as fiat currency. Fiat currency is not truly real, yet people will murder and maim for specific sums of fake cash. Therefore it’s ” unrealness ” is nullified by others willingness to acknowledge and act. Chicks normally like and want sex. Social pressure to not commit sluttery, along with their false sense of entitlement gets lowered along with inhibitions via alcoholic beverage in mass quantities. So, it depends on the chick and how smashed she is as to how low she will go. Remember, the talk of height and muscles and six packs… Read more »
Oh, I forgot –
CAUTION in 2015 re: fucking drunk chicks.
The FI is rapidly gaining traction in defining sex with a drunk chick as rape. Their next day regrets are swiftly becoming legally actionable. just because she downed a pint of Jack and proceeded to rim you does not guarantee that you will not require legal counsel.
Proceed with extreme caution and knowledge.
“Eye contact observation: I haven’t made a real study of it so maybe I’m totally wrong, but casually it seems to me the younger Millennial men, the 20 somethings, really don’t do eye contact very much. Not to other men, not to women. Maybe that’s why these young women respond so strongly to it?” I didn’t get good at eye contact until I had to learn frame/dominance with others for my job, and my GF at the time pointed it out to me a lot. More than any other thing I improved (and there were many things,) she praised how… Read more »
Forge, Eyes, hands and voice. Lucky for me I guess, I’ve always made strong eye contact. Guys I grew up with, other men in my family, they demanded it. When I was a kid/young teen, I can’t tell you how many times I heard ” Look at me when I’m talking to you…” or when I was instructed to ” Go up to him/her and look them straight in the eyes..”. When I’ve asked women what it is about eyes or hands, I’ve always gotten different answers. So that’s something I’m still trying ( half-heartedly ) to figure out. I… Read more »
@ Simon
scribbler wrote:
And for the record – I love Jews, and fuck anyone who doesn’t.
I think that scribbler wants your cock. lolz
@ Blax
Great analysis as usual.
Thanx ASD.
Blax, I think that eyes, hands, voice are basically how a woman feels your sexuality. They’re how you stare at her, how you grab/hold her, and how you command her. YaReally’s gone in depth about the ‘laser eyes’ idea. I’ve heard it opined by a man that if you take a girl’s hand and she begins to feel/stroke yours, she’s DTF and I have yet to see that disproven. I don’t have a crazy masculine voice so I’ve never much thought about that one. This same girl loved it that I liked to sing, even though I did so strictly… Read more »
Forge, Agreed. Especially with this-” I think that eyes, hands, voice are basically how a woman feels your sexuality. They’re how you stare at her, how you grab/hold her, and how you command her.” I used to try and downplay my hands on thing with women. Not so much anymore because it is a part of me, so it is not worth it to censor myself too much. It holds the great possibility of landing me in a shitload of trouble… but wtf? I never, ever handle a woman with kid gloves. Lol. I don’t grab them too hard, but… Read more »
@Liz and IAS
Thanks for the recommended links to the red pill women sites this morning. They should align with the SIL’s interests.
@SJF QUOTE: “Wow, I noticed in real life two weeks ago that people were really starting to get wound up to be bat-shit anxious and crazy for the holiday season, but today’s posts really proves it with all the contentiousness. So I will join in and be contentious. “Rocket, why do you prefer prostitutes over the genuine desire of a woman who is into fucking you unsolicited? Granted, you’ll pay for sex in some form or another regardless of how you go about it ……. if you’d say it’s because it’s a simpler matter than to hope you can play… Read more »
Blaximus –
How’d showing no fear work out for ol’ Dan?
FOLLOW UP: I’m specifically responding to SJF’s comment about me:
“I think he answered that with his ego-invested endorsement of that shitty Reddit post. Answer: Because he sucks at Looks-Height-Race”
Truth is, SJF knows absolutely nothing about me or my situation. The dude is an asshole. Well, you’d consider him an asshole if he made such accusations about you.
I’m just responding in-kind. He attacked first. If the limp dicked faggot can’t defend himself, its not my problem.
SJF, you want an apology … then issue one. To me.
@SJF
Re: Rocket
http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lanqq5KicD1qdr1wto1_500.jpg
I will follow this up with one thing. Don’t know where the animosity came from … don’t know if its from the holidays or what … but I will say this. I do not deal well with being disrespected. So I will take my attention elsewhere if this is allowed as acceptable behavior. And I will repeat SJFs own words:
“I think he answered that with his ego-invested endorsement of that shitty Reddit post. Answer: Because he sucks at Looks-Height-Race”
And I repeat, this dude knows NOTHING about me.
Am I pissed ? Judge for yourself.
We’ll need a copy of this in triplicate:
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/060/713/butthurt-form.jpg
@Sun
lol
@Rocket
Let me express this explicitly.
I like your content. It gives me insight into a life circumstance I’m unfamiliar with, and it shows some degree of initiative. But the random rages when provoked cast more than slight doubt on your overall contentment with your circumstances.
Rather than being confident in your choices, you seem pretty sensitive about them. Hence the flack. Maybe that’s just your way of interacting, but it does seem pretty volatile.
I only say as much because I think you’re solid enough to hear this. Otherwise I wouldn’t bother.
The fact that you guys are arguing on the internet says enough.
Rollo – surely you have your this in your sites for an up and coming post…
http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/nov/30/pirelli-calendar-goes-with-more-jokes-and-less-steam-this-year?CMP=fb_gu