Attitude Sells

attitude_sells

There are many attitudinal and subtle behavior traits that manifest in men who are presented with options or enjoy even casual social proof. I’m not sure a lot of guys really realize just how sensitive women are to those ‘tells’. You will do things, say things, without thinking about them that indicate on a limbic level what you believe about yourself. Women have evolved to perceive the smallest cues and subtlest of hints – to the point it’s a subconscious subroutine running in their background processing of information about you when they’re not even cognitively aware of it.

They may not be able to consciously put a finger on it, but on some level of consciousness these tells are informing a woman’s limbic understanding of your SMV.

I’ve gone back and forth about covert communications vs. overt communications on this blog over the years. There is a certain school of Game that teaches a bold, direct action wherein a guy overtly inserts himself into that woman’s immediate experience and I can certainly see the merits of it.

Law 28
Enter into action with boldness

If you are unsure of a course of action, do not attempt it. Your doubts and hesitations will infect your execution. Timidity is dangerous: better to enter with boldness. Any mistakes you commit through audacity are easily corrected with more audacity. Everyone admires the bold; no one honors the timid.

There is a certain gravitas that accompanies an extroverted approach with women, the trick is not coming off as a ‘try hard’ and overplaying it, thereby overtly confirming your following a script. When you don’t believe it’s you it’s a pretty good bet she doesn’t either.

A lot of proponents of this in-your-face approach will tell you it’s the only way a “real” man should interact with women; boldly and confidently, and entirely on his terms. And while I agree with this, how you go about effecting that can vary depending on context and condition.

When a guy is initially establishing Frame and drawing the woman (women) of his choosing into his reality, that overt, direct approach can be the deciding factor for a woman’s acquiescing to his Frame. Caught up in the moment (such as an ‘insta-date’ or an encounter she wasn’t expecting) and charging her with an immediate rush of endorphins, a woman’s Hypergamous filtering process gets overridden by that excitement. This is the same principle operating behind planning dates with an excitement factor involved (rock climbing, sky diving, are both exaggerations, but you get the idea) – an emotional attachment paired with an endorphin rush associates that ‘feeling’ with you.

There’s a tendency I think for Red Pill aware men to view women’s Hypergamous / Solipsistic natures as hinderances to men effecting their own interests with them. Shit tests, filtering, sexual prospect comparison and a whole host of other conscious and subconscious vetting inherent to women seems like an insufferable waste of effort for men. However, while Hypergamy may define the rules of the game it’s important for men to understand how to work it to their advantage in both a direct approach and in understanding the subtle filtering that women do.

I’ve read more than a few ‘dating gurus’ define this “being direct with her” approach as the only legitimate form of Game. A Real Man® sees what he wants and goes out and boldly gets it. The problem is that this attitude gets tied to The Male Catch 22 and any derivation is compared with unmanliness.

As I said, while I agree there’s merit to this directness, it shouldn’t be done at the cost of understanding how women subconsciously vet and filter to better discern a man’s (perceptively) true sexual market value to her – as well as how she contrasts his SMV to her self-perceived SMV. There is nothing “unmanly” about having a curiosity for how the female mind works and then using that understanding to your advantage.

Maintaining Frame

It’s one thing to draw that woman into your reality and your psychological Frame, it’s another to maintain this Frame once she’s stepped into it.

I went into some of the subtle ‘tells’ about a man’s SMV in Alpha Tells and Beta Tells and the subcommunication messaging that transfers between men and women. In these posts I described the process beneath those tells and what’s being communicated in them. One thing I believe even Red Pill aware men subscribe to is the idea that their Frame can only be maintained by the same overt and bluntly direct means that helped them create it.

This is the root of men’s initial anxiety of having to upkeep their Red Pill “act”; “Red Pill is impossible to float all the time! What? Am I expected to Game my LTR forever?” The answer of course is internalizing Red Pill awareness into one’s personality, but one thing that also goes along with that is the manifesting of behaviors that help maintain your Frame.

Women pick up on behavioral cues, attitude, how things affect you, how you apply yourself to a task, how you deal with adversity and certainly the interplay you engage in with her while playing with her. If you’re thinking that women wanting men who Just Get It is all direct Game and all above board you need to reconsider that quite a bit of women’s filtering occurs when you’re not ‘on‘ and she’s casually picking up on your behavioral cues.

She want’s you to ‘get it’ on your own, without having to be told how. That initiative and the experience needed to have had developed it makes you a Man worth competing for. Women despise a man who needs to be told to be dominant. Overtly relating this to a guy entirely defeats his credibility as a genuinely dominant male. The guy she wants to fuck is dominant because that’s ‘the way he is’ instead of who she had to tell him to be.

Observing the process will change it. This is the root function of every shit test ever devised by a woman. If masculinity has to be explained to a man, he’s not the man for her.

Much of a woman’s vetting process takes place in her hindbrain. It’s very easy for most guys in western(ized) culture to presume that hot, but vapid, women are too oblivious to really pay much attention to this process. Lost in their hedonism and self-affirmations it’s easy to believe that those processes aren’t as influential in hook-ups as they might be in a long term arrangement, but trust that even though they might be under the surface they are being processed.

Mindset

It’s a Tomassi Maxim now, but bears repeating; Alpha is a mindset, not a demographic. I’ve explained what I mean by this on many occasions, but when it comes to what I consider the abstraction that is Alpha it can primarily be reduced to a particular mindset of masculine dominance and confidence.

I wont belabor this here again, but suffice to say that while I believe there is a natural component to it, I do think that to varying degrees this Alpha mindset, or something approaching it, is a learnable state for men. That said, I also think men need to use caution when when evaluating how to go about cultivating and internalizing this mindset.

It’s very easy to get caught up in the hope for a magic solution to your problems in life. There’s no shortage of motivational speakers and charismatic ‘self-help’ gurus ready to sell you a book, or a sermon, or some self-styled social movement promising to show you how to develop this “winners’ mindset”. It’s important to bear in mind that any mindset you learn is only as legitimate as the realities that inform it.

A lot of hate directed at PUAs, motivational speakers, pastors or even your parents can be traced back to their failings in understanding simple evidential realities. Their hopeful formulas for your success end up being frustrations and anxieties when they’ve proven to fail you because you invest yourself in part, or in whole, in them.

Much of what constitutes Blue Pill conditioning is founded in the same misgivings. It’s very easy to hype up and sensationalize Blue Pill idealisms in ‘optimism’ soaked rhetorics, but these hopes are easily dispelled with a Red Pill aware lens. That’s one reason the Red Pill can be bitter – it’s a real buzz kill when you’re high on Blue Pill optimism.

The primary reason I’ve always been reluctant to be prescriptive with Red Pill awareness in practice is because I’ve always believed that the Red Pill is never going to be one size fits all. While Red Pill truths are universal, their application is subjective to the man employing them. How he develops the mindset that best serves him is contextual to his own circumstance.

That said, I think a pragmatic approach based on Red Pill awareness and the fundaments that make it up would serve men best in developing a Red Pill mindset that works for him. You might think that in light of my recent Purple Pill post that I’m alluding to the ‘coaches’ and re-definers of the Red Pill in all this, but lots of “Red Pill” men are actually Purple Pill hoping that some of the old rules might still apply.

While I emphatically recognize the power of positive thought in altering one’s mindset and changing the course of one’s life, I also understand that zeal for change needs to be tempered with a healthy skepticism. If you find yourself being swept up in a tide of super-optimism that’s the time to question the foundations of it. Positive, motivational memes can become clichéd aphorisms when those foundations are proven to be false.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

401 comments on “Attitude Sells

  1. @rocketroll

    Waiting for a virgin to come to grips with reality and for them to come out of the bathroom to face a guy they don’t even know and who is going to fuck them silly is what its all about.

    you seem confused by the virgin concept:

    She’s going thru a divorce, has 2 kids both young …

    meanwhile the common sense virgin writes:

    Can’t face that YOUR view of the world isn’t held by everyone

    actually I do know that your stupid view is firmly held by you, and by some others like you, and you will continue to hold this view regardless of what is posted here or on r/theredpill. I suggest you take your stupid view and shove it on an idiotic blog of your own

  2. @Anonymous Reader

    The lessons of dog training carry over to human interactions. “Don’t show fear or doubt” is one of the first.

  3. Wow, I noticed in real life two weeks ago that people were really starting to get wound up to be bat-shit anxious and crazy for the holiday season, but today’s posts really proves it with all the contentiousness.

    So I will join in and be contentious.

    “Rocket, why do you prefer prostitutes over the genuine desire of a woman who is into fucking you unsolicited? Granted, you’ll pay for sex in some form or another regardless of how you go about it
    ……. if you’d say it’s because it’s a simpler matter than to hope you can play Alpha well enough convince a woman to genuinely be aroused by you, well, I can definitely see your point.”

    I think he answered that with his ego-invested endorsement of that shitty Reddit post. Answer: Because he sucks at Looks-Height-Race-Not a Sperg
    Game.

  4. @Anonymous Reader

    How legit is Cesar Millan’s attitude, frame and tactics with canines? Did/do they always work? Are there dogs that are refractory to his Game?

    Are the criticisms of Millan such as in the Wikipedia article under “Reception” valid or nonsense?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Millan

    Are there significant parallels to Frame and Game in human inter-sexual relationships? You would think he would be good with woman. I’m sure he caused a few wet panties in his female clients as he handled their canines.

    And what about the idea that Frame is not power with dogs?

    Just curious.

  5. Well, things got on a very different track here. But thanks for the responses.

    @IAS

    re: ‘sounds like you’re her beta orbiter’: I once had difficulty distinguishing this sort of thing myself (clearly, since I’ve been one before lol). But that’s not the case here, and I’ll explain why since it’s illustrative.

    a) Did you happen to see the posts I made a month or two back about ‘green light/ red light’ faces? Basically my point was that women have certain things they do when they’re trying to keep a beta orbiter on the hook , as opposed to when they’re trying to deal with genuine arousal. They exaggerate the smiles, the affection, the overt things like hair tosses, but tend to be rigid if you attempt kino or verbal escalation. Basically, they’re trying to enthrall you without letting things proceed at all. Example: http://cdn.sheknows.com/articles/2013/02/Mike/lovingyou/Happy-women-smiling.jpg

    By contrast, a woman who’s actually turned on by you will tend to have blank, kinda dark expressions, will lock on to your eye contact and kino, and will try to suppress IOI’s (unless she’s actively trying to fuck you). But she’ll seem a bit in a daze and they’ll sneak out if you watch closely enough. Example: http://www.attractionmentor.com/here/wp-content/uploads/woman-ivy.jpg

    b) She was nervous, instead of trying to make ME nervous. She allowed me to dictate the frame (following my directions, letting me lead the conversation, hanging on to my every word (making sure she picked up as much info as possible), immediately getting cagey as soon as I implied escalation – like she’s not sure she can control herself.

    It’s a subtle difference at first to tell when a woman is attracted to you as AF, but is trying to desexualize things for practical reasons, vs when she sees you as being a good beta but prevents sexualization due to lack of attraction. The difference is that the overt/covert signals flip. With a beta orbiter the (fake) attraction is overt whereas the desexualization is covert. With an AF she’s trying to resist, the attraction is covert whereas the desexualization is overt.

    I mean, let’s not be dogmatic here but that’s the general tendency lol.

    I’ll get to Glenn in a bit here.

  6. In my mention of contentiousness earlier, contentiousness is good. Debate is good.

    For all of us engaged in red pill flavored debates such as in this thread, and in particular the “Don’t Hate the Beta thread, there is an excellent perspective on this idea of debates about applying the red pill by Illimitable Man posted today.

    Go read it here:

    http://illimitablemen.com/2015/11/30/applying-the-red-pill-an-analysis/

    Here are some snippets/nuggets of thought (re: spelling, he’s British):

    Great minds often pick holes in one another’s views, come to understand one another better, but do not change their position. To shift position, a view has to be demonstrated to be fundamentally incorrect. One’s preferences for particular kinds of conduct do not disprove a line of reasoning, they merely ignore them in favour of something intuited to be more preferable, often, that means self-serving. However, and this is important to emphasise: one man’s best move can be another man’s worst. The reason for this? Not all men have equal capabilities, and therefore, equal options conferring mutually beneficial outcomes.

    This is exactly why the red pill is more a philosophy (or praxeology) than it is a movement or religion. Movements and religions confer little liberty in regard to individualist morality coexisting within their framework, they command and state in a rather absolutist manner. This provides security and well-being to the less intellectually endowed seeking comfort within reality; it allows them to feel as if they “have figured everything out” and thereby live functionally in a manner conducive to clean mental health. But naturally, to the more intellectually curious, this falls short.

    If I had led my whole life preying on people to great effect, and I read an article quite cogently articulating how this is undesirable, even if I agreed rationally this was wrong, emotionally I would not. Morality requires the heart to be moved in order to change. I would intellectually agree with the argument whilst simultaneously exempting myself from its conclusion. Hypocritical? Surely, but that’s what people are; they do what works for them in spite of what their intellect compels them to recognise as right.

    If you have found a way to live that works for you, you can agree on principle with someone else’s views even when said views undermine how you choose to live your life. The logic can be wonderful, you can enjoy their thought process, but ultimately it is not going to change one bit how you live because how you live is what you’re comfortable with.

    Predators always look down on prey, but predators are reliant on prey for their survival. In this way there is a perverse co-dependency in spite of the in-group/out-group psychology which philosophically polarises the morality of predators with the morality of prey. The morality of predators is “exploit wherever possible whilst preventing reprisal”, the morality of prey is “do unto others as they do unto you”.

    It is your duty to yourself to adopt opinions you believe and discover will benefit you, whilst respectfully disagreeing with those that are no help and outright discarding those that would hinder you. The quest for truth and the quest for happiness are mutually exclusive, rightfully as the bible asserts “for with much wisdom comes much sorrow”, and therefore if happiness is your goal, bias towards a way of being which promotes self-happiness becomes unavoidable.

    Remember, you only left wonderland because wonderland failed to keep you happy. Had it kept you happy, you’d still be there. Not because you couldn’t escape if you put your mind to it, but because when a dream is enjoyable, one wishes not to open their eyes.

    Amongst the discussion had by red pill readers and writers, somewhere in the middle of it all is a perfect truth in reference to the nature of women. However this truth, even if we could grasp it, is so nuanced, intangible and inconceivably complex that it defies measurement and summation. One should not search for perfect truth, because there is no such thing present within the limits of human understanding. As such, one would do well to understand that the red pill is not a perfect truth in so much as it is a sufficient one.

    Realise people are shaped by the sum of their life experiences, and this in turn dictates their personal morality. It is due to the experiences of many thousands of men that the red pill has been able to uncover the threads of truth pertaining to the relationship between men and women. Truly, no one man could ever hope to develop such an advanced understanding by himself. Your application of this knowledge is a choice only you can make, use what works, discard what doesn’t, and come to your own conclusions. Toe-a-line or toe no line, the red pill doesn’t care.

  7. @ Forge

    Also, if you desexualize (implying or noticing that the woman is sexualizing) and she giggles, then you have passed a beta shit test. If her sexualization is covert and strong (something like dancing close and pressing her boob against your chest while you’re dancing), then she sees you as being sexually attractive. A woman who is sexually attracted to a man will seek physical contact with him as long as her ASD isn’t active.

  8. @ Forge

    instead of trying to make ME nervous. She allowed me to dictate the frame

    It’s quite possible for you to be a little nervous, shy, etc. and maintain frame. Expect frame tests, though, because your subcomms will be inconsistent.

  9. Huh, no idea why the pics don’t work. Thought I had that issue nailed. Ah well, click for examples.

    Hey @Scribblerg, thanks for your breakdown.

    “– I think she’s trying to qualify you as pure short term AF but there some bit of the “nice guy” left in you so she can’t quite put you in that box. I notice that your (vivid and interesting) descriptions of her seem to see her as passive/reactive versus having full agency. I think you missed several opportunities to make the interaction much more sexual where she could be free to express her desires instead of playing “good girl”, which is what she is doing when she acts embarrassed about her interest/attraction.”

    Yeah, for sure. When you put it straight down it’s pretty clear she’s having a hard time seeing me as solid AF just yet – largely bc I’m failing to sexualize things more, and also because I share a few interests with her and so have had some platonic convos about books, botany, etc. That, and my cool job, prime her to think of me a biiit as a long-term prospect (a ‘plan B’ as redlight pointed out), so she’s not sure if she wants to seem like ‘that kinda girl’ to me.

    I need to set a different frame.

    “– Based on what you described, it’s not fair to yourself to say you suck at game, lol. You did very well with this woman, detecting IOIs, fanning the flames and creating intimacy with your eyes and voice etc.”

    Thanks! I suppose I’m pretty good w/ girls in my social circle, lol. I just have some bad wiring left wrt meeting new people or something. Probably with escalation yet too, due to lack of experience.

    “But where I think you missed the boat is in not creating the “naughty girl” vibe and also disqualifying yourself as BF material. You should run boyfriend destroyer on her and maybe start telling her that you have been living a polyamorous lifetstyle, and that you think possessing a woman is just not what you want. You need to open the topic of her cheating, even if just by teasing her about it, and frame it for her. ‘You only go around once in life” or one of my favorites, “Nobody ever wishes they had less sex in their life when on their deathbed”. Ask her why she hasn’t married the guy, etc. Also, making plans in this kind situation is the wrong way to go about it. She won’t agree to come over for drinks if its overt that you are going to fuck, but she will meet you out somewhere. She essentially has to “fall on your dick” so she can later say, “I don’t know what happened, I didn’t plan on it” etc. You might be able to get more direct, giving the HUGE HINTS she is giving you. “Well we could try drinks again but I’m afraid you are just a tease.” YaReally will have much better advice, but you get my gist, yeah? You have to help her create a frame for her to cheat. I think you get this based on what you said, but it can’t hurt to reiterate it.”

    And this is excellent stuff about how I might go about resetting the frame.

    The thing is, I think this is a sticking point for me because I still have some of that bad frame set on myself. The thought of just having girls with boyfriends in my social circle banging me on the side is just slightly weird to me, so I instinctively pull away from implying that frame or applying it to a girl. I’ve almost gotten rid of it, but the traces that remain still hamper me in trickier cases like this. I’ve got to push myself out of my comfort zone a bit more there. Maybe with this girl. Maybe with one of 2 other prospects I’ve got spinning. I’ll get there. I’m basically at a point where I’d love to be a guy girls can express themselves and their slutty sides with, and maybe help them out a bit wrt dealing with their more committed relationships and mindsets. And if some girl impresses me more longterm I’ll tend to keep her around more. So in a way I’m there, I just need to grab my balls and lose the old reflexive hesitation.

    I’ve actually implied that I have a pretty open mindset about sex and relationships to her before. She suddenly went from ‘suppressed ioi’s sometimes’ to ‘serious cognitive dissonance when she’s around me.’ So this shit is gold. Just make it so that, in my presence, she knows she’s with someone with whom it’s ‘safe’ to express illicit sexual thoughts, and then give plausible deniability (she wants to fuck but needs a good excuse if she’s caught, you’re not tricking her you’re working with her to do what she wants – I see now how much this still works with their choices and desires).

    Thanks Glenn. This illuminates a mindset I still need to work on.

    @theasdgamer

    “You had already spiked her buying temperature. That’s all sexualization does. The spike in BT is what triggered her ASD.

    ‘She gave me the most peculiar look. If I read it right, it was that sort of bright-eyed, vague smiles girls make when something really turns them on. But overlaid with frustration. I think she’s quite torn.’

    Yep. She needs time to make up her mind. Go aloof. No texting. Minimal politeness if you see her.”

    See, I think that would generally be right. And I don’t have all that frequent contact with her, so certainly I shouldn’t start texting her from here to Sunday. But I think with respect to what Glenn pointed out above, a few frame re-adjustments might be in order. Done with sparseness and precision.

    Past that, I likely do have most of the groundwork laid out, so after a few frame adjustments I just need to set logistics and let her chase a bit. Once she does though it’s time for emotional spikes/push-pull again. Reward her interest.

    Oh, another possibly relevant fact – I told her she should go with me to the farmer’s market a few weeks back, she told me to text her if I was going. I did the two weekends I went after that, she didn’t get the first messages I sent and seemed disappointed, then she flaked the second time. Haven’t tried again since then. So it does seem she has some ambivalence/nervousness about all this yet. I just need to make it more fun and safe for her maybe, then pull back and let her decide as you suggest.

  10. @asd

    Also, if you desexualize (implying or noticing that the woman is sexualizing) and she giggles, then you have passed a beta shit test.”

    Ya that’s classic shit. Push away when she tries to sexualize. It flips the script, makes you non-needy, and drives it into her forebrain that she’s being ‘bad.’ It makes them chase like crazy.

    If she’s offended by your insinuation, that’s a serious beta tell.

    “A woman who is sexually attracted to a man will seek physical contact with him as long as her ASD isn’t active.

    My example above was illustrating how a woman acts when she’s attracted to you but is struggling with her ASD. If she’s attracted to you and doesn’t have ASD she’ll be on you like a beaver on sugar maple.

  11. How legit is Cesar Millan’s attitude, frame and tactics with canines? Did/do they always work? Are there dogs that are refractory to his Game?

    I got no clue, barely ever heard of him, never read any of his books or viewed any of his vids and…

    Are the criticisms of Millan such as in the Wikipedia article under “Reception” valid or nonsense?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Millan

    …until now I did not know about the wiki page.

    Dunno about his personal life either.

    And what about the idea that Frame is not power with dogs?

    I don’t buy that. So far as I can tell, frame matters a lot with dogs, horses, and other critters. Maybe someone defines frame differently?

  12. @redlight
    “actually I do know that your stupid view is firmly held by you, and by some others like you, and you will continue to hold this view regardless of what is posted here or on r/theredpill. I suggest you take your stupid view and shove it on an idiotic blog of your own”

    Thanks RL, glad to know that my view (which is working for me) is stupid and that I should “shove it”. And also didn’t know that having a blog made my views more important that someone else’s. You got a blog ? Does it make a difference ?

    @SJF

    Wow, I noticed in real life two weeks ago that people were really starting to get wound up to be bat-shit anxious and crazy for the holiday season, but today’s posts really proves it with all the contentiousness.
    So I will join in and be contentious.

    “Rocket, why do you prefer prostitutes over the genuine desire of a woman who is into fucking you unsolicited? Granted, you’ll pay for sex in some form or another regardless of how you go about it
    ……. if you’d say it’s because it’s a simpler matter than to hope you can play Alpha well enough convince a woman to genuinely be aroused by you, well, I can definitely see your point.”

    I think he answered that with his ego-invested endorsement of that shitty Reddit post. Answer: Because he sucks at Looks-Height-Race-Not a Sperg
    Game.

    And now I got a shitty Reddit post. Well, not really, just that I referenced it; and didn’t even say I agreed with all of it. And most CERTAINLY didn’t say I preferred prostitutes over “real women” … like having sex with a prostitute isn’t real. Guess SJF is talking from his reality … a reality in which he has never has sex with a prostitute.

    To address SJF’s attitude towards Looks-Height-Race-Not a Sperg-Game comment, I will only say this. 90% of men fail at those criteria. Notice a trend ? Like 90% of men are not “alpha” … like Alpaha is some god like trait mentioned on here. Its not. So … if you don’t meet that criteria but are close … how do you get over the hump. If you’re 5-5, its pretty much impossible. If your close and you got money, then throw money at it, like I do. Does it work, damn right it does. Sorry you and others here are so butt hurt that it does. But that’s reality. I’m just being rational and doing what works for me. Never said I “prefer prostitutes” over anything so quit putting words in my mouth. This is RATIONAL MALE after all …

  13. @ScribblerG

    Heheh, I noticed that you are like Baltasar Gracian. You feel undying hatred for human folly. In your writings you insist on the perfectability of man and the capacity of goodness (no matter what anyone else says otherwise about ScribblerG), assisted by art to triumph over evil. Perfection depends not upon religious revelation but upon human resources and industry: attentiveness, mastery of one’s emotions and other forms of prudence. St. Ignatious of Loyola (Ed. those Jesuits sure were secular) said “Use human means as though divine ones didn’t exist, and divine means as though there were no human ones.” Heh, religious types should “Pray to God, but hammer away…” Everyone knows that God helps those that help themselves.

    So, I’m taking that from the introduction to the “Art of Worldly Wisdom”.

    It’s late and it’s time to cut and paste:

    What is disconcertingly “modern” about this book is the apparent subordination of ethics to strategy. Moral generalizations, the immutable “hard rules” of ethics, yield, in these pages, to the conviction that to reach perfection one must adapt to circumstance. To achieve Gracián’s prudencia (wisdom or prudence) one avoids generalities—among them, generalizations about morals. The Oracle bids us to speak the truth but to administer it skillfully, with a touch of artifice; the “most practical sort of knowledge lies in dissimulation (concealment of one’s thoughts, feelings, or character; pretense)”. We are to be “learned with the learned, saintly with saints … observe [others’] temperaments and adapt [ourselves] accordingly”. The wise are as mutable as Proteus. But even mutability and dissimulation must not harden into guiding principles. Gracián’s insistence on adaptability, on metamorphosis and camouflage, reveals (an Italian philosopher reminds us) a poignant sense of man’s fragility and vulnerability.

    Nor can Gracián be accused of indifference to the spiritual or material well-being of others. Avoid fools, he tells us repeatedly, but beyond that his injunctions are clear: “Speak what is very good, do what is very honorable”. “Know how to do good”: little by little, with moderation. “Love, if you would be loved.” Friendship is a recurrent theme, both here and in Gracián’s other works, as it was in his life, and so is conversation. As for the “pessimism” of which he is often accused, the concept is anachronistic. What many of us call “optimism”—a belief that people are basically good and that things will turn out for the best—Gracián would have regarded as a hoax of the imagination: “Hope is a great falsifier. Let good judgment keep her in check”.

    Like other moralists of his age, from Francis Bacon and Jeremy Taylor to Francisco de Quevedo, Gracián labored painfully toward desengaño, the state of total “disenchantment” or disillusionment in which one gains control of one’s hopes and fears, overcomes deceitful appearances and vain expectations, and weans oneself from false worldly values. Much of the The Art of Worldly Wisdom: A Pocket Oracle , with its insistence on curbing the imagination, concerns strategies for reaching that bittersweet beatitude. To entertain no illusions about things or people was a large part of wisdom. The modern notions of pessimism and optimism seem shallow in comparison. Optimism would have seemed out of place, anyway, in seventeenth-century Spain—the Spain of Velásquez and Zurbarán—a kingdom in social turmoil and political decline. Like Quevedo, Gracián had the sense that his country’s moral strength was waning. From time to time we hear a melancholy, unmistakably elegiac sigh: “Good conduct has departed, debts of gratitude now go unpaid, and few people give others the treatment they deserve …” . Only strategy—incessant plotting against one’s own weaknesses and those of others—allows us to push forward to perfection. “It takes more to make one sage today than it did to make the seven of Greece”.

  14. @Rocket

    You either never read any of my comments or can’t comprehend them.
    I’ve never uttered a butt-hurt comment in the last 18 months (And if I did it was either accidental or I was drunk). But then again I consider myself and try to keep myself at or above the 93rd percentile of men.

    I’m a greater beta and lesser alpha, always striving. Don’t mind not being an uber Alpha, I have a family to maintain.

    Are you really only 5’5″?

  15. Also rocket-man,

    “All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.” – Douglas Adams

  16. 5’6 and I have this 6″3 girl shes probably a 9 and a half atleast on my scale………down to go . and im broke as shit and she knows it and im staying with my parents and my life sucks but is awesome at the same time…. idk. motivation for people i guess. but i think im like god basically so whoop.

  17. “You either never read any of my comments or can’t comprehend them.”

    And I’m having a good deal of trouble matching up what he says Rollo says with what Rollo says.

  18. “And I’m having a good deal of trouble matching up what he says Rollo says with what Rollo says.”

    I spoke with Rocket once and didn’t dislike him. His stuff about escorts as an option may be functional, to other men. But he seems very defined by pain that isn’t current.

    The trick is not minding that it hurts.

  19. scribblerg
    November 29th, 2015 at 3:13 pm

    You are absolutely right about Citizens United.

    1. Individuals have the right of Free Speech
    2. Individuals do not lose that right when they become/join a collective.
    3. If you don’t like the politics of the people you work for – work for some one else

    Where it all gets tricky is: who decides what is political speech and what is product advertising? Citizens Unites says the Government can’t make those decisions.

    But OK. You (as in not scribblerg) are against Citizens United. Please tell me – Who Decides? John Entwhistle? Pete Townsend? You? We put it to a vote? We put it to a jury? A judge?

    I favor “No Law”.

  20. SJF
    November 28th, 2015 at 9:52 am

    re: addiction

    It is a LOT simpler than what you quoted describes.

    Addiction is a response to pain.

    People in chronic pain chronically take pain relievers.

    You want to fix “addiction” ? First fix the pain.

  21. theasdgamer
    November 29th, 2015 at 3:14 pm

    Modern steel mills are inherently big business.

    =====================

    The whole crusade you champion assumes that people don’t think. If that is the problem such crusades can only make things worse.

    “We are against big business” – All of them? Some of them? And if only some how do you decide which ones are approved and which are condemned? How do you judge?

  22. theasdgamer
    November 29th, 2015 at 3:14 pm

    The new 3D printing industry looks like it could turn into a run around Big Business.

    The 3D printing industry is so dependent on big business it is not even funny.

    Steel
    Plastic
    Aluminum
    Insulated Wire
    PCBs
    Semiconductors
    Machine tools
    etc.

    This is a case of the environment is so ubiquitous that it is not even noticed. Also – 3D printing is slow. Good for prototypes and short run stuff.

    ==============================

    BTW AH was brought up Catholic.

    Note: I was brought up Jewish. It never quite leaves you. These days I’m more of a Pagan. So what form of that have I studied most diligently? Kabbalah. Go figure.

  23. @ Rocket

    If you’re 5-5, its pretty much impossible.

    Back when I was 14, I hit puberty and kissed two girls the same year–both pretty (HB8 & HB7–the HB7 introduced me to French kissing). I was 5’4″ tall. When I was 15, I was dropping panties and still 5’4″. So, lack of height was never a problem for me. I was bold enough to approach women and that made up for a lot. I never waited for IOIs. That is key if you’re short or ugly.

    There were no PUA sites back then to learn from. It was harder to get info about girls–I learned mostly by doing. You have the advantage of all this online info and you can get help from PUAs by writing your field reports. What’s stopping you?

    If you’re short &/or ugly, you just have to learn to use negs and ping girls’ emotions hard. Make them giggle by being bold and engaging. That makes up for deficits in height and looks.

    I think that you fundamentally don’t understand women. And don’t believe what other men tell you about women when the men really understand women. Go watch women’s behavior in a bar close enough so that you can hear the convo of men who make them giggle.

  24. @ Simon

    The 3D printing industry is so dependent on big business it is not even funny.

    Sure, but that’s irrelevant to trends.

    BTW AH was brought up Catholic.

    People change. AH as dictator wasn’t trying to convert people to Catholicism. What AH was brought up as was irrelevant to the discussion.

    But OK. You (as in not scribblerg) are against Citizens United. Please tell me – Who Decides? John Entwhistle? Pete Townsend? You? We put it to a vote? We put it to a jury? A judge?

    I favor “No Law”.

    I wish it were that easy, but 800 lb. gorillas have a habit of sitting wherever they like. Better to keep them caged. And to not let them run things. I expect that there’s some sort of optimal situation where high efficiency and low political impact meet.

    Note: I was brought up Jewish.

    Someone being Jewish isn’t a problem for me. If any group is trying to undermine my nation/separate me from my kin, that’s a problem. Socialists/progressives are creating trouble for my nation and hurting my kin. And a lot of the top socialists are Jewish. You all need to clean up your act.

    Someone being fanatically anti-Christian is also a problem for me. (Not saying you are.) I’ve had Jewish friends who had Christmas trees and weren’t anti-Christian. I’ve had them over for parties. Some of my college roommates were Jewish. There were no issues because they were Jewish.

  25. theasdgamer
    November 30th, 2015 at 7:53 am

    The trouble with caging the gorilla is that you will put me in the same cage. Speech codes have a way of morphing. Look at what is going on in the college set.

    No law. (is supposed to be the rule – I’ll stick with that thank you very much)

    Here is how it usually goes:

    1. Only the worst actors
    2. Only the bad actors
    3. Some of the good actors
    4. You must all be very good

    What is the cut off? Amount of capital? Number of employees? Profit making intent?

    ======================

    It is like abortion. If you intend to outlaw it you will need vagina police.

    For your project we will need speech police. SEA – Speech Enforcement Administration. They will be armed.

  26. “The 3D printing industry is so dependent on big business it is not even funny.”

    For the raw materials, sure. But 3D printers will change a lot of things. No reason for a Nike sweat shop in the DPRK (or wherever) when one can print a pair of shoes, customed to one’s foot, at home. Same for clothing, tools, and a lot lot more. I already print airsoft gun parts and cell phone covers out of ours. It will have a major impact on intellectual property rights, those will be hard to protect.
    3D tech is now about where computer tech was maybe 25 years ago. It’s getting cheaper, and faster. Per materials, those too have advancements. My husband worked with DARPA about ten years ago, and back then they were trying to come up with a way to extract titanium in a way that would make it as cheap, or cheaper than, aluminum.

  27. “You want to fix “addiction” ? First fix the pain.”

    Interesting that there is another way to fix addiction. A workaround.(A workaround is a bypass of a recognized problem in a system. A workaround is typically a temporary fix that implies that a genuine solution to the problem is needed.)

    That workaround to pain being what Forge just mentioned: Not minding the pain. Some psychic pains are so etched into place because they were imprinted during childhood and adolescence and in effect become hardwired into personalities. Some chronic physical pains are not not fixable in a timely fashion.

    The reasons opioids are deemed successful in combating pain is that they don’t actually get rid of the pain, but allow ones brain (with the limbic system mediating pain picked up by the hind-brain and interpreted by the fore-brain) to not mind the pain.

    Opioids target the brain’s reward system by flooding the circuit with dopamine. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter present in regions of the brain that regulate movement, emotion, cognition, motivation, and feelings of pleasure. The overstimulation of this system, which rewards our natural behaviors, produces the euphoric effects sought by people who misuse drugs and teaches them to repeat the behavior.

    Our brains are wired to ensure that we will repeat life-sustaining activities by associating those activities with pleasure or reward. Whenever this reward circuit is activated, the brain notes that something important is happening that needs to be remembered, and teaches us to do it again and again, without thinking about it. Because drugs of abuse stimulate the same circuit, we learn to abuse drugs in the same way.

    Marc Lewis’ Biology of Desire points to the workaround to addiction is in distraction. Distraction by other dopamine inputs besides the primary addictive one, allows the newer, more virtuous dopamine generators to flow around the rut dug by the primary addictive substance. And because the brain is neuroplastic, it can rewire around the sole pathway (deep rut) of the addictive substance.

    And Rocket’s butt-hurtness (that he psychologically projects onto others here) can be fixed by developing work-a-rounds to not having the big five locked up.

  28. And a lot of the top socialists are Jewish. You all need to clean up your act.

    Jews rise to the top in what ever field they enter. It has been that way for quite some time. The IQ difference is about 1 Standard Deviation. Where it makes a difference is in the upper tails. I’d have to look up the actual numbers but it is something like 10X higher proportion at IQ 180.

    To counter the socialists I give you Milton Friedman and Mieses. And quite a few others.

    Do something about it? We could kill the environment they “swim in”. You know – Death To All Socialists. A small ocean of blood will do nicely.

    Sadly – you with your speech codes may have to be included. Or we may have to outlaw socialist speech. Death To Bad Thinking. That is not a firm standard – it is true – but death is rather permanent. Let the wars begin.

    ============================

    What is disheartening is the constant resort to men with guns to solve these problems. In the end the problems don’t get solved. But you do get a lot more of that protected class called police.

    It is how you arrive at a police State.

  29. “Marc Lewis’ Biology of Desire points to the workaround to addiction is in distraction. Distraction by other dopamine inputs besides the primary addictive one, allows the newer, more virtuous dopamine generators to flow around the rut dug by the primary addictive substance. And because the brain is neuroplastic, it can rewire around the sole pathway (deep rut) of the addictive substance.”

    That’s interesting, SJF. I’ve never read this book, and I don’t have any chemical dependencies, but I do have an addicting personality. I’ve found it’s kind of like a mental “hiccup” (or nervous tick). I form addictions via habit pattern and association. So, for instance, if every morning I smoke a cigarette while reading blogs online (or reading the paper, or whatever my routine is), I will start to crave that cigarette whenever I sit down at the computer (or someplace where it is my habit pattern to smoke). The key for me in breaking my addictions is to change the habit pattern. Once the mental “hiccup” is broken I no longer crave (whatever it is…could be chunky chews, alcohol, smokes, unhealthy whatnot).

  30. @Liz

    Off topic, I need some internet resources similar to the manosphere for men for a 54 year old single female. Perhaps a blog or forum. My wife’s sister in law (from my wife’s deceased brother) was over for Thanksgiving. She’s pretty wise and needs some guidance and internet resources that are female-centric into the nature of men and women (similar to red pill for men). Something not so Feminitstic-Equalist, she subscribes to complementarianism. And she is considerably spiritual in nature but eminently logical ( she subscribes to some off-the-beaten path thing called The Book of Urantia)

  31. Maybe it’s my ego, but this post almost seems like it was written for/about me based on my FR last post.

    First, an update. Not much actually happening, but that in and of itself has given me stuff to think about, particularly about what my attitude is about certain things, and how it needs to change.

    It’s been close to two weeks since initial encounter with former co-worker and our email exchange. I have not emailed her again after initial reply I sent. Thinking on it, Forge was definitely correct; it was too bland and too much of what I typically do which is a ‘let’s be pals’ thing even though that is NOT what I want. Friggin’ default programming…

    I know what I want out of this, and what I don’t, and that should have been foremost in my mind when crafting the reply.

    Now, I plan to follow Forge’s advice and not email her as I said I would and wait a few weeks. If I did put myself in the Beta slot with that reply somehow, then I feel being unpredictable and absent can only help get me out of that if possible.

    If I am NOT in that slot, then delaying won’t hurt me either, so fuck it!

    BTW, this rang a little alarm bell when I read it:

    “a) Did you happen to see the posts I made a month or two back about ‘green light/ red light’ faces? Basically my point was that women have certain things they do when they’re trying to keep a beta orbiter on the hook , as opposed to when they’re trying to deal with genuine arousal. They exaggerate the smiles, the affection, the overt things like hair tosses, but tend to be rigid if you attempt kino or verbal escalation. Basically, they’re trying to enthrall you without letting things proceed at all. “

    It was unpleasant to read because I immediately thought of this chick’s highly demonstrative actions toward me and it made me wonder, but I appreciated it all the same. I have no need for self-delusions. Thanks for posting it, Forge, as a reminder to look out for that. If that is the case, then all the more reason to play against expectations here.

    In the meanwhile, during the wait, a few thoughts.

    This is a little tough to do, to wait, but that has been instructive for me.

    One, because I realize it indicates a problem, whether you want to call it scarcity mentality or oneitis. I call it oneitis not because I am invested in this particular woman, but because I realize I lack other current viable options and would really want/need this to work. Having a FB would be a really nice thing to take the edge off but all my eggs in that regard are in one basket and there is only 1 friggin’ egg due to my inaction. The only reason I have this egg is because it rolled itself over to me in the first place.

    My fault. My issue.

    I tend to be passive, which goes back to the email. I have to change how I approach a lot of things mentally. I have been reading and learning a lot, but I have not made a real effort to UTILIZE it. I somehow expect to be able to use what I learn when I passively happen to stumble upon something.

    WRONG.

    Two, related to one, I see the power of uncertainty playing out, and even as it eats at me a little, I am getting the power of it for future reference.

    I don’t know if the chick got my email or it ended up in spam folder or whatever and that uncertainty is annoying and intriguing because you are forced to wonder what the deal is, but have no way of knowing without extending yourself again, losing hand in the interaction.

    If she did get it, and has not responded with even a short acknowledgement, you then ask well, why not? What could a woman be thinking in that scenario if she was so interested in me? What’s the silence say?

    “The Medium is the Message”

    Got it. If she wants to fuck me, she will work to make it happen as well. If not, she won’t.

    But then that illustrates the power of uncertainty again. If I KNEW she got it, but did not bother with any sort of response, I would have some info to work with, I would have my answer in the no answer. But I don’t know, so I wonder…

    Then I realize I am thinking somewhat LIKE a chick with this, and then realize I need to quash that shit, and THEN I realize the potential for turning that dynamic around. I see the true wisdom in the suggestion that I don’t do what is expected, what I said I would, but leave things ambiguous, leave women wondering…

    Hmmmm…okay. Got it.

    Three, it’s easier to wait than it would have been for me years ago, so there is mental progress here. This would have been harder to do back then, but now I am mostly approaching here as a project, a case study. It’s like the women is less the goal than understanding the process and myself, if that makes sense. I am not emotionally investing, but looking toward my goal which is getting better at this. It’s a welcome change.

    Overall, I have been thinking about Frame, mine in particular, and I am still struggling.

    I hate writing that, because it frustrates me that I am, most likely because it bespeaks of a lack of self-confidence and self-worth I still lack. I also wonder if, deep down, I realize that firmly establishing my frame will diminish or crush others, and my default “make no waves” personality is yanking me back from that. I already feel like my expanding frame has come up against various friends, for example, and I feel badly about the resulting tension even when I know at my core I am right, that I have the right to my frame and that true friends will accept it.

    You then realize that frame will eventually come up against family and you will then have some serious tension and some possibly life-changing results.

    This would be a lot easier if I was younger, but more importantly, less ensconced within the life I now find myself in. I am trying to figure out how to incorporate both, but you begin to realize some things might have to go.

    The question is, do I have the courage to seek out everything I truly want in life?

  32. ” I’ve had Jewish friends who had Christmas trees . . .”

    “Christmas” trees are not Christian, they are Germanic, dating to thousands of years BC. “Easter” eggs are not Christian either, but they are at least Mesopotamian and may even date back to before Out of Africa, at the very least tens of thousands years old.

  33. @SJF : in Reddit there is a sub called Red Pill Women, I think that is geared towards strategies for getting a RP “Alpha Bucks” (someone like you, Alpha but willing to commit to the right woman). Not being a woman I never looked much into it, but maybe it is good for your wife’s sister in law.

  34. @ Simon

    Let me repeat:

    You all need to clean up your act.

    No police state. Police your own community. Jewish criminals are treated severely because Jews make sure that it happens.

    The biggest problem is that something like 90% of Jews are progressives/socialists. Kind of hard to do the policing thing. I don’t envy you.

  35. @ Simon

    It is like abortion. If you intend to outlaw it you will need vagina police.

    This is silly. Abortion was outlawed for many years. There were no vagina police.

  36. @ Simon

    The biggest problem with outlawing abortion is that it’s making a special case out of something that ought not to be a special case. Just treat the killing of infants like any other murder.

  37. @SJF

    “You either never read any of my comments or can’t comprehend them.”

    “Are you really only 5’5″?”

    Pot meet kettle. I never said I was 5-5. I said that IF SOMEONE were 5-5 then it would be pretty much impossible.

    “I’m a greater beta and lesser alpha, always striving. Don’t mind not being an uber Alpha.”

    I’m in the same boat … greater beta/less alpha … I suspect that most of us here are. That is one of the reasons its so frustrating for me. I’d say I’m in the upper 80-90th percentile so given Normal patriarchal society throughout human history … I would be considered quite the catch. Given the current situation where all women target the top 10% and most women are obese and those that aren’t are pretty much screwed in the head given the attention/entitlement complex they have instilled in them, it makes it near impossible for guys like us to find suitable mates. And that’s assuming the legal climate made it possible to actually have a mate without putting your life in jeopardy.

    And for the record, I’m 5-10 195 lbs and in pretty decent shape; workout, go to the gym, etc. I also make over $100k and have nearly a mill in the bank. So yeah, my fatal flaw is attitude which has not been made better by taking the RP … but at least I understand what’s going on now. Have a little bit of game and learning all the time, thanks to places like this.

    The issue I face is that I’m smart and have only dealt with smart people my entire life (my Ex had an IQ of 160 and a MA and two BAs) and I don’t really know how to deal with “average” people. Its like dealing with a bunch of retards … I don’t know how to dumb it down really. And as RPers frequently say dealing with women is like dealing with children … Spoiled, entitled children who expect YOU to kiss THEIR ass. I just have a hard time doing that. And frankly I have been successful my entire life and my attitude has gotten me a long way. So … I’m supposed to re-invent my personality to act like a moron just so I can get some pussy ? That’s the conclusion I have made. Learn to be an asshole ? Learn to use people and manipulate them via PUA techniques, RSA, whatever. No, I don’t think so.

    The referenced Reddit post talking about using Loopholes to get an advantage or make up for a lacking in one of the criteria. That’s what I’m doing … nothing more, nothing less. I’m very fortunate that I have money to burn, so I’m throwing money at the problem. Never said I “preferred hookers”, its just easier that way because its a transaction. I want pussy, they want money. Problem solved.

    But as is pointed out, hookers are not a real relationship and there is lots of bad shit that comes along with that. So I’m trying the Sugar Baby thing and its working great so far. SBs are very close to real relationships and my #1 SB is really blurring the line. Frankly she considers me her boyfriend and to her the money is just gravy. Her birthday is coming up and I’m taking her away for the weekend, no extra cash involved except for me paying for a room/dinner, etc. Which I would anyway if I had a spouse or real GF.

    And I repeat again just so people comprehend: what I’m doing works for me. Not saying its for everyone. And frankly, there are not many people who could do what I am doing because they don’t have the funds. The way I look at it, I can keep my job/status and use the $$$ I make to pay for my lifestyle OR I could quit my job, become a bartender, learn to game/BS with the best of them and make 1/3 of what I make today; and I’d get way more pussy … but it’d be free pussy … so that makes it better right ? Yeah, don’t make sense to me either … 2/3 of my salary … poof ! just to get free pussy … ain’t so free when you look at it that way. The other way I look at it is the time investment. Time IS MONEY, don’t you know. My new SB I took to dinner once and next time we met we were having sex. We texted a little bit in between to set up the arrangement. My total time investment – 3 hrs. Yeah, maybe that is my personal hamster running but having been married, I know what a time sucker it is. All relationships are. So going from never have met her to having sex with a 3 hr time investment is pretty damn good; and yes the Game I have learned from places like this definitely helped.

    On and for the record, I have no problem with women AFTER the relationship is formed. As I said, I’m a great catch … just a lousy salesman.

  38. @redlight

    November 29th, 2015 at 7:57 pm

    @rocketroll
    Waiting for a virgin to come to grips with reality and for them to come out of the bathroom to face a guy they don’t even know and who is going to fuck them silly is what its all about.

    She’s going thru a divorce, has 2 kids both young …

    “you seem confused by the virgin concept:”

    No, you seemed to forget that I said this was a first time SB; she had never done this before.

    We had already discussed what her allowance would be; so she knew she was going to get paid. I had told her her primary duty was to have sex with me. It was the first time we’d gotten together and she wanted to use the bathroom first. While she was taking a pee, she had the realization that she was about to get fucked for money. Which in most women’s minds, makes them a whore. So she just figured out she was about to become a whore and had to be ok with that.

    That is a huge hurdle for a woman to overcome; I already knew that. There are lots of women on the SB sites who think it would be really cool for them to be pampered and spoiled … for a guy to find them attractive enough that he’d give them money. But when it comes time for them to actually have sex with someone is basically a stranger … many of them chicken out. Unless the guy is super hot, of course. And most of the Daddies aren’t, just sayin. And most of the Daddies are old too; yeah, some women are into older guys but a lot aren’t either. They think it would be cool but when the guy is actually OLD, they won’t go thru with it.

    So anyway, I think this is a case where somebody who doesn’t have a clue about the dynamic and what’s really going on … is judging. And yes I was fully prepared to have her chicken out and not go thru it. This is similar to Last Minute Resistance – LMR that PUA’s talk about. And I might have tried to talk her into going thru with it, but I’m not into pressuring anyone to do something they’re not comfortable with, so probably would have just let her walk.

    But I didn’t have to … and it couldn’t have been too bad because she came back on Saturday and we did it again … I’m teaching her to have better orgasms 🙂 Oh and she’s definitely an HB8 maybe even a HB9. Definitely a keeper !

    If anyone wants a clue as to how to keep them coming back … NEVER, EVER treat them like a whore. First sniff of that, and they’ll never be back. Treat them well and fuck them good, keeps them coming back. Oh, and the money helps too. But seriously, if you treated them like crap or sucked in bed, the money most likely isn’t going keep them coming back. Most of them anyway. Sugar Babies are not hookers, completely different dynamic.

  39. @Rollo – re: alpha and context. What you are really saying is that “alpha” is a social status convoked on a person by others and that in any social setting, context is decisive. It’s also true that trying to categorize men as either alpha or beta is quite limiting as the concept barely applies to even wolves and falls apart when looked at too closely wrt humans.

    Just consider YaReally’s commentary. Is he a top alpha guy? No, he just has learned how to demonstrate high value in ways that tickle the hindbrain of women to see him as a short term mate. That he’s not a pussy beggar alone sets him apart from most men – is being alpha just about not being a pussy beggar?

    Any man can learn to be socially intelligent. Any man can learn to be more assertive and confident. Any man can learn to be his own point of mental origin. Any man can learn about seduction. Does that mean you are going to be seen as the alpha dog in any social setting you are in? Of course not.

    Will your life be better having taken women off a pedestal? Will women respect you more for having done so? Take my case, I was a bit of a natural and always socially dominant but I also had women on a pedestal and had lots of blue pill thinking and some aspects of betatude for sure. I was fucking miserable before the Red Pill, while having fucked around 100 women in my life.

    Now? Women are in their proper perspective. Now I’m my own point of mental origin. Now I’m not only dominant but I am also socially intelligent and my life is light years better. Does that make me an alpha? I don’t give a fuck, truly.

  40. @ Rocket

    Your friends and your sugarbabies accept you in spite of your high-horse intelligence. Not because of it.

    You are in the Anger phase of the Five Stages of Unplugging.

    You will find that if you can work your way through to Acceptance, you will have more emotional intelligence and up your Emotional Quotient to be better at game. It will free you up from your emotional shackles and your masculine self improvement will flow better.

    Yes, you do have to dumb yourself down. It is a very apt skill. And you can do it without looking like a moron.

    Law #38 Think as you like but behave like others

    If you make a show of going against the times, flaunting your unconventional ideas and unorthodox ways, people will think that you only want attention and that you look down upon them. They will find a way to punish you for making them feel inferior. It is far safer to blend in and nurture the common touch. Share your originality only with tolerant friends and those who are sure to appreciate your uniqueness.

    I’m supposed to re-invent my personality to act like a moron just so I can get some pussy ? That’s the conclusion I have made. Learn to be an asshole ? Learn to use people and manipulate them via PUA techniques, RSA, whatever. No, I don’t think so.

    I definitely think if you make it through triage and are more red pill aware and more game savvy, you will be quite a bit less of a smug asshole.

  41. @redlight, @rocket

    The biggest problem is that we take women AND ourselves way too seriously. Men think that they have to perform, to be confident, to be TOP ALPHA, have six pack…to be able to score hot pussy. “Cos..women loove confident superguys. And of course only top, super rational, alpha guys are allowed to fuck those super, heavenly chicks.

    Than we see this balding guy with rotten teeth with hottie. Ok, so our male hamster start spining and producing shit like…..he must have money, big dick, fame, you name it. He must be WORTHY of her! He certainly must have performed well otherwise – there is no explanation. He is that mysterious ALPHA somehow.

    Truth? Women are SCARED of confident super alphas. One of the deadliest mistakes is – be too perfect, too uptight, too strong, too confident.

    Take it easy, show some vulnerabilities, holes in which women can sink their hooks, do not try to be perfect superman and most of all – do not pursue women as a serious life/death business. It is not.

    One of the secrets naturals have is that they have had sexual experiences from an early age. Those experiences robbed women of their power. So they see women as cute chicks to fuck, enjoy and play with. Which they are!

    Maybe the mistake of nice guys is not that “niceness”. Maybe the grave mistake is that they take women and all that dating game far too seriously. Indeed this “soul mate” myth is very serious stuff. The “burden of performance” myth as well. Arm niceguy with playfull and detached personality and he simply MUST score!

    I see this seriousness in a way MGTOW are perceived. MGTOW – by definition, should be a man that lives under his rules. He may fuck around, be married, or be alone…but he does not attach too much importance to women. He has his own way of live that has priority over women.That is all. Why must MGTOW be the guy who does not want to fuck women? He just does not see it as deadly serious life/death issue, that´s all.

    Go out there, socialize, ENJOY. When we are not enjoying the game with women we are doing something wrong. If you want serious stuff for a tough, confident man – set up a business, climb high mountains, fist fight sharp guy. But approaching women? How is THAT confident stuff? She is scared shitless cos you can rape her, stalk her, many things. But you? What the hell she can do to you?! Give you a cold shoulder? You certainly will not die from it. Do you?

    Still we think we need confidence to approach women? Still we think we have this burden of performance, we have to be super extra confident supermans to be worthy of women? Look at Tyler Durden!? What do you see? Super confident alpha dog? Short, balding, at best average man! All his body, face, everything screams…”averaget”! Many sharp businessmen I know would beat the shit out of him if he offended them. But yet..they are ruled by their ugly, little wifes as slaves while he is out there enjoying women! He knows that the biggest enemy is our own mentality that attach too much importance to women,

    THIS is the reason I repeat that majority of men are slaves. It is in our DNA. I MUST do ….. to be worthy! For me ..this is mantra of the slave.

    You needn´t do anything, just go where women are, enjoy and socialize. Be cool, relaxed and positive. Learn a couple of tricks how to escalate. That is pretty ALL! How is going fucking out and sociliazing “performance”? It is relaxation, enjoyment of our free time. We want to sit at home with dick in our hands, expecting that women will come to us?

  42. @Rocket – Denial is not a river in Egypt. You are here because whores aren’t good enough for you, and you know it. You can bullshit others and even yourself, but you can’t get away with it here. I get it – it’s a compromise and as I said in my comment I’ve done it and it can be nice sometimes. But it’s nothing like fucking a woman who is really into you. It’s nothing like being actually desired.

    I don’t dislike you, fyi. You express yourself well and have an interesting take on things but you go off the rails with your characterization of alphaness and how men can vastly improve their ability to fuck women if they set their minds to it. What you demonstrate in this aspect of your commentary is that you don’t really get the Red Pill. Have you read Rollo’s books? Have you read the First Year posts at the top of this blog? My sense is you glossed over too much of this information and came to bad conclusions.

    I challenge you to do the following:

    Take on self-improvement seriously. You seem complacent.
    Take on pickup/seduction seriously. You will be amazed by how well it works and how much fun it is. Get a wingman and get out there.

    I’m ready to cheer you on and support you in your growth.

  43. @ASD and Keyser – I didn’t respond to anything you two have to say on the political front because both of you are operating from vast ignorance – whether you realize it or not. As SJF noted, I have a hatred for this kind of bloviating and ill-considered POV.

    You guys will notice there are lots of topics that I don’t comment on because I don’t possess expertise in those areas. But when it comes to history, economics and politics, well, I have 40 years of interest in the topic. The first book I read on serious politics was Alexander Solzhenitzyn’s Gulag Archipelago – when I was 11. I may be the only 11 yr old on earth to have read and digested that 700 page tome on Soviet madness. In 1973. Consider that.

    I’m trying to share hard won knowledge with you while you guys are whipping monkey dung around. Wake up and open your minds, you both have much to learn on these subjects – you have nothing to teach me,

  44. @ SJF
    “Your friends and your sugarbabies accept you in spite of your high-horse intelligence. Not because of it.”

    Oh most definitely; I know this.

    Having an high IQ is definitely a handicap when it comes to being social. It took me swallowing the Red Pill to realize that I’d surrounded myself with likewise people … coworkers, friends, even spouse. And I’d done it for so long that I didn’t know how to relate to “average” people anymore.

    In addition, post divorce I avoided women for several years; given that I was married for a long time (10+ yrs) … made me completely out of touch. Man, the world had changed !!!

    I think this is common story … men post divorce … getting a wake up call and discovering RP.

  45. @M. Simon -You need to read The Biology of Desire as your ideas about addiction are a good starting point, but very limited. Suffering/pain being the place addicts are in and seeking pleasure as what they are doing is a good initial realization, but it’s a very incomplete view. Given your interest in neuroscience and behavior I think you’d love the book and I’m eager to hear your thoughts on it.

    As for “no law” all I can say is have you read Hobbes, and also perhaps Locke’s Second Treatise? Have you read Anarchy, State and Utopia by Robert Nozick? Fyi, Nozick was in part responding to John Rawls A Theory of Justice, which the entire ideology of Social Justice is based upon. He published about 2 years after Rawls and they were friendly adversarial colleagues who corresponded with each other about their views.

    If you have read these folks and still hold your “no laws” view, well, happy trails. But my sense is that you haven’t and if you did, you would realize what a bizarre idea anarchy is.

    A few thoughts on anarchy:
    – It’s the absence of a political philosophy, not a political philosophy. It’s amazing to me how many anarchists don’t realize this.
    – It’s been tried, it was the “state of nature” man found himself in and virtually all human progress has come from moving beyond anarchy.
    – You cannot claim people living in anarchy will be free in any meaningful sense. Since you are relying on emergence in a complex system (human civilization), the best claim you can make as an anarchist is that you might be free in some places at some times. That’s it. Again, many anarchists don’t even realize this.

    Nice to hear from you. And for the record – I love Jews, and fuck anyone who doesn’t.

  46. Liz
    That’s interesting, SJF. I’ve never read this book, and I don’t have any chemical dependencies, but I do have an addicting personality. I’ve found it’s kind of like a mental “hiccup” (or nervous tick). I form addictions via habit pattern and association.

    That appears to be a major factor in addiction. You should read the book. I’m almost finished and probably will re-read it, something I generally do not do.

    So, for instance, if every morning I smoke a cigarette while reading blogs online (or reading the paper, or whatever my routine is), I will start to crave that cigarette whenever I sit down at the computer (or someplace where it is my habit pattern to smoke). The key for me in breaking my addictions is to change the habit pattern. Once the mental “hiccup” is broken I no longer crave (whatever it is…could be chunky chews, alcohol, smokes, unhealthy whatnot).

    The brain mechanism we rely on to suppress desire has finite energy, it gets “tired”, that is why people relapse, and changing the pattern is a key to breaking or avoiding addiction. In the context of this posting, the key to breaking self-defeating behavior patterns of any sort, including “I can’t attract a woman”, etc. is to substitute some other behavior. Instead of vegging out 40 hours per week in front of the TV, find some other thing to do; read a useful book, improve something in living space, exercise in some fashion, learn a new skill, or something else.

    This is not directed at you or anyone else in particular, it is just a truth: alcohol increases estrogen, at least in men. Boozing to numb mental pain makes a man less manly. Just saying.

  47. @Seraph

    Thanks for the update!

    “Now, I plan to follow Forge’s advice and not email her as I said I would and wait a few weeks. If I did put myself in the Beta slot with that reply somehow, then I feel being unpredictable and absent can only help get me out of that if possible.

    If I am NOT in that slot, then delaying won’t hurt me either, so fuck it!”

    Sounds good. You’re likely dealing with a low interest level from her currently, so the key is to get face-to-face time to change that impression. By waiting you create tension if there is any interest there, and you avoid looking like you’ll be clingy/necessitous if there isn’t.

    When you reply again, you need to toe the line between making meeting you sound interesting without overselling it.

    “….It was unpleasant to read because I immediately thought of this chick’s highly demonstrative actions toward me and it made me wonder, but I appreciated it all the same. I have no need for self-delusions. Thanks for posting it, Forge, as a reminder to look out for that. If that is the case, then all the more reason to play against expectations here.”

    Learn to DHV more and you’ll start to see the difference intuitively. When I first noticed it a pretty girl had me enthralled for a bit at a party, then she started doing the same thing to another dude and he was hooked. And I started to realize that she was just playing us, so I just went off and did my thing and had a blast and then she started throwing me real IOI’s. And her new chump dragged her out of there. Lol.

    This is part of the reason PUA’s developed things like compliance tests – ways to see if she sees you as being dominant, like how I made the girl in my FR above sit down in a certain place and take off her sweater so I could check her shoulder. You can also do it verbally, by making her qualify herself to you (i.e. “You like X? Oh…” like you’re hiding disapproval. If she’s interested she’ll try to win you back, “Oh, I only do X every once in a while, ya it’s silly but it can be fun sometimes…”). Mystery would turn his back on girls like he was going to walk away, and they’d grab his arm and try to turn him around to make him stay. You can even try some of this stuff on sisters/cousins that like your attention if you need the practice. You’ll see how they love being teased like that. I have a younger sister that always wants to tell me about her day and feelings and stuff, and I’ll be interested then suddenly look bored and turn away and she’ll giggle and grab my arm and hug me to keep me there. Then I’ll pretend to start falling back so she needs to catch me – “No no no stay HERE!” as she grabs tight. It’s a fun game for her.

    A lot of the same dynamics can apply with any woman – relatives included. The only difference is you don’t sexualize or escalate on them, obviously. The first stage to being sexy to a woman is typically just being a pleasantly masculine presence she wants to be around. Then you show her that she activates your sexual nature as well, and this gets the wheels turning.

    “I tend to be passive, which goes back to the email. I have to change how I approach a lot of things mentally. I have been reading and learning a lot, but I have not made a real effort to UTILIZE it. I somehow expect to be able to use what I learn when I passively happen to stumble upon something.”

    Ya that’s the first and last trap for a smart man. You think you can just apply intellect to the issue. And you really wish you could just apply intellect to the issue, because hey you’re great at that. It prevents you from doing hard things.

    “Then I realize I am thinking somewhat LIKE a chick with this, and then realize I need to quash that shit, and THEN I realize the potential for turning that dynamic around. I see the true wisdom in the suggestion that I don’t do what is expected, what I said I would, but leave things ambiguous, leave women wondering…”

    Yup, it’s amazing how much you can hide from yourself, lol. Guys can go years getting hooked on girls this way, and never realize that they could hook girls that same way. It’s fucking bizarre, but hey, welcome to the human rationalization engine. That’s why sounding boards like this place are so great 😉

    “Three, it’s easier to wait than it would have been for me years ago, so there is mental progress here. This would have been harder to do back then, but now I am mostly approaching here as a project, a case study. It’s like the women is less the goal than understanding the process and myself, if that makes sense. I am not emotionally investing, but looking toward my goal which is getting better at this. It’s a welcome change.

    Good. Next phase – viewing it as FUN instead of as a project. But ya, you need to prove to yourself how things work to start with.

    “I hate writing that, because it frustrates me that I am, most likely because it bespeaks of a lack of self-confidence and self-worth I still lack. I also wonder if, deep down, I realize that firmly establishing my frame will diminish or crush others, and my default “make no waves” personality is yanking me back from that. I already feel like my expanding frame has come up against various friends, for example, and I feel badly about the resulting tension even when I know at my core I am right, that I have the right to my frame and that true friends will accept it.

    You then realize that frame will eventually come up against family and you will then have some serious tension and some possibly life-changing results.

    This would be a lot easier if I was younger, but more importantly, less ensconced within the life I now find myself in. I am trying to figure out how to incorporate both, but you begin to realize some things might have to go.

    The question is, do I have the courage to seek out everything I truly want in life?”

    No one said it’s easy, man. But you wouldn’t be here if you were perfectly satisfied with your life. It does take courage, but (and maybe I’m just lucky) in my experience the whittling down hurts less than you might suppose. If you alienate friends, you do it incidentally, and when you’re at a place where you don’t much see eye-to-eye with that friend anymore anyways. And always be exploring new people or places or experiences, and you begin to find, occasionally, sparsely, but in a very worthwhile fashion, people and places and things that work for you in a way you haven’t experienced before.

    This can work in a pretty profound or a pretty base fashion. Example of a base fashion ’cause I’m feeling shallow right now lol: imagine finding a chick that LOVES giving you blowjobs, really gets off on it. Previously (before the RP) I thought that girls would inevitably find it demeaning and were being forced to do it by mean men. Then I meet some chick who won’t shut up about it, won’t stop fantasizing about it. Just one of those small things where you discover something you never expected to find, never expected to even enjoy.

  48. @Rocket – The comments on IQ are interesting. I possess a genius IQ and it took me a long time to get comfortable with that. I used to only socialize with other “smart” people too as an adaptive strategy, but over time I realized how limiting that is.

    An experience I had changed my views on my intelligence. I worked for a company that was filled with geniuses and intellectuals and highly educated people – out of 200 folks there were at least 70 PhDs. I was being considered for a significant promotion into management and they had a practice of evaluating all senior leaders via an industrial psychology firm. I was told to go to Toronto for the day for a battery of tests, and the evaluation which would be shared with the management team and me, and it was seen as a way for all of us to be able to understand and deal with each other.

    While from an early age, I knew I was smart and always did well on standardized tests, I was a kid when all that stuff happened. I was always told I was super smart, underperforming and that I could do whatever I wanted to with my life – lawyer, engineer, poet I had the chops for virtually any field of work. But I never really internalized any of that. This test broke down my intelligence into 6 different categories. I turns out that I am in the top .3% of the human population in abstract reasoning and verbal skills, but in other areas like spatial reasoning, math etc, I’m merely well/somewhat above average. This alone explained so much to me. I often had problems being impatient with other people when it came to problem solving or other areas where I’m simply at another level compared to most people – even PhDs from top universities. I would often be in business meetings working on issues and figure out the solution in 5 minutes – and have to wait an hour for everyone else to catch up. After this test, I realized that I needed to understand and use my gifts well and cooperatively and subsequently became a much better team player.

    From then on, I began to realize that most people are smart about something and also that intelligence in one area doesn’t necessarily translate into intelligence in another. So, when I meet new people, I’m always probing for that thing they are great at or interested in or smart about, even if they are obviously not as “smart” as I am. I also am very generous in the listening I grant them, as most smart people treat others like dicks and I consciously engage people who I’m much smarter than with respect – and I’m amazed often by what they are up to. Sure, some people are morons and assholes and lazy fucktards but that is the exception not the rule.

    Your intelligence, Rocket, should be a great asset in developing “social intelligence” via the Red Pill, and if you were to apply yourself to pickup, your brains would be a huge advantage. It’s also true that women find intelligence a demonstration of high value (not necessarily attractive on its own, fyi), and often smart people are deferred to by others socially, another DHV. You have an advantage that others don’t have.

    I also consider my intelligence an accident of birth for the most part. I have actively and seriously developed my mind and intelligence and knowledge, but the science on IQ shows that genetics is the primary driver. So, I’m just lucky that way and given how unlucky I’ve been in other ways, I try to just be grateful. I also try to let people use me for what I’m good at – a colleague used to call me the “idea hamster” because if you throw a problem at me, I can often solve it in ways others never even consider. I see myself as serving others with my brains rather than lording it over them.

    That said, when ignorant people argue with me about shit they haven’t bothered to study to the depth I have and then refuse to actually engage in cogent argument or deal with the knowledge I share with them, as happened on this thread, I do set fire to them rhetorically if it doesn’t hurt me in what I’m up to. I don’t suffer obnoxious fools gladly and will cut them down to size without mercy. When you do mental battle with me on certain topics, you are in the big leagues and if you don’t know what you are talking about, try shutting up and listening as you might learn something. But ignoring me when I give very detailed responses and cite sources and facts and ideas, and just insulting me in return and repeating abject nonsense, well that’s just fuckery and I deal with it accordingly.

    For example, ASD ignored my dozens of cites of Christian wars and violence after I took the time to collect them for him, so I’m under no obligation to be nice. Remember, he is also the guy who asked for Rollo to ban me from the site because of the “atheist propaganda” I shared on transsexualism a few posts back. He doesn’t even realize how idiotic he was being on that count as the theory and information I cited from noted academic J. Michael Bailey of Northwestern directly undermines the idiotic ideas of the insane LGBT gender/trans social justice types. It debunks them, but because of his feral intellect and biases he just blasted me. I have no tolerance for that kind of ignorance and nonsense and treat it accordingly.

    The worst thing about the internet is that it has made many people believe they are much more informed and intelligent than they actually are because they are presented with so much “infotainment” that stuffs their heads with hyperbole and agitprop, but they don’t realize it (this due to the click economy on the web, fyi). Rollo is a notable exception to this as his reasoning is careful and his approach is quite circumspect intellectually – which is also why it’s not easy to penetrate. The complexity and depth of his thinking is amazing and many of the ideas are quite subtle. He’s gradually built up an epistemology of thought based on a lot of science and real knowledge, and it’s incredibly impressive. Contrast him with Roosh and you’ll get exactly what I mean. Or even Dalrock for that matter…

    Just sayin’.

  49. @Forge – Holy shit, I do compliance tests without even realizing it. It’s actually a key part of how I establish dominance with women. It’s funny, you don’t even have to be too polite about it and can even manhandle a woman a bit to get compliance (very subtle line between this and abuse). They go into a different state, it’s very notable.

    I remember a woman telling me how putting her in line when she would act out was a huge turn on for her, and that “No man has ever spoken to me that way” (in an approving tone). This alone may be a big part of why woman are running amok – most men are too afraid to establish their dominance over a woman and just let them have their way far too often.

  50. @ scribbler

    I’m trying to share hard won knowledge with you

    Like AH being a catholic dictator, lol. So much you know just ain’t so. Maybe you forgot. I used to research and argue this shit, too. I was obsessive about it. Autistic and all. No more.

  51. For example, ASD ignored my dozens of cites of Christian wars and violence after I took the time to collect them for him

    Lol, the point was whether Christianity taught that Christians were supposed to wage war; it was a counterpoint to Islam which in fact does teach that muslims are supposed to wage war. Islam calls it “jihad”. So you either you didn’t understand the conversational issues or you tried to divert the convo as a sleazy debate tactic.

    If you’re so smart, with all your verbal intel and shit, why can’t you follow the conversational thread?

  52. Re: intelligence. Girls will say about me that I seem very smart, but that i don’t make them feel dumb. This seems to be a potent combination wrt drawing people to you. The way it’s done is I take a strong interest in helping people understand things. If they don’t know something, I have the attitude that this is exciting bc I get to teach them something cool, rather than looking down on them for it. If they don’t understand it one way I try another. Always done with compassionate attention to the person and their state. No condescension.

    It can be frustrating sometimes of course. I rarely run into someone with my IQ in real life, and that can be a bit tiring in a way. But only rarely does it get to me. I try to use my intellect to satisfy my own goals/interests, and to draw others up into a world they might never understand otherwise. I have a knack for explaining things.

    All that said, I think this is a piece of ‘natural game’ I had pre-redpill that consciously learning game has blunted some. Being confident/dominant and so on tends to make be bulldoze over people more than I should. I should try to re-balance that a bit….

  53. “greater beta / lesser alpha”

    how do you even describe this in terms that makes sense?

    A guy who routinely stays in his frame but occasionally stumbles in his interactions with women because of his long-standing blue-pill indoctrinations and stubborn ego investments?

  54. Forge: “Girls will say about me that I seem very smart, but that i don’t make them feel dumb. This seems to be a potent combination wrt drawing people to you.”

    Yes. I think this is the formula for something many would refer to as charisma. There aren’t a lot of charismatic dumbasses. It requires intelligence.

  55. @ Rollo Tomassi
    Can you write a post about how your old girlfriends turned out? (hit the wall and such, or not?) That would be something to laugh at. I ask this because as a young guy I now see my ex-girlfriends hit the wall. Some good, others bad. They even speed it up with a lifestyle of alcohol and smoking. What I am curious about is the amount of contact old lovers try to establish years later and if this confirms the reality of the transition- and securityphase where they see you as some kind of “last resort” guy. I wonder how many women who think a man is so crazy to take them back later or is interested in any contact at all.

  56. scribblerg
    November 30th, 2015 at 11:17 am

    I hold my “no law” view for a number of reasons. But the main one is regulatory capture. And who has the means to do that? The entities being regulated.

    Suppose some SJW objects to one of Rollo’s books. It is published by a corporation. Thus it is corporate speech. Censor it. Far fetched? Yes. But not very. I’d much rather speech was subject to “no law”. Then the supreme Court can’t twist logic into a pretzel to ban what Rollo has said.

    ====================

    As to reading the book you suggest. I have no means to acquire such an object.

    ====================

    The first thing I object to in these discussions is the word “addiction”. It is a description of behavior. It is unhelpful. What is more helpful is a mechanism. Pain. PTSD. etc.

    In any case when it comes to changing the current situation simple epigrams are more helpful in changing mass attitudes than nuanced studies. I like being epigramatic.

    People in chronic pain chronically take pain relievers.

    is good enough for 99% of the population. BTW I discussed this some years back with Steve Pinker. He dismissed me after a week or so of e-mails. He believed in “addiction” at that time. He has since adopted my view.

  57. @Anon Reader

    ” You know, all the warrior teachings from around the planet in a way distill to that.

    More prosaically, as others have explained, it’s like getting a dog. I wound up with a half stray a few years back, the dog books all say not to do that. Eh. Dog or bitch, the canine brain is wired to follow the pack leader. Dogs can’t speak human. They can’t think like humans. So a man has to learn to “speak dog”. That means either I’m the pack leader and the dog submits, or the dog will try to become the pack leader, and that means the dog expects me to submit. You can see this in some old people who have a dog that runs the house, owning everything. ”

    Quick(ish) Dog Story.

    I had a dog once named Dan. Dan was 1/2 Doberman and 1/2 Great Dane. He was an absolute giant.

    I’m convinced that he had mental issues in that he grew to be extremely vicious and violent, and constantly tried to attack people to the point that I had to muzzle him almost constantly. Yet, he wasn’t vicious towards me for the most part. I could usually stare him down and command him to behave.

    Btw, I did not raise him from a pup to be an angry biting machine, he just grew that way in spite of all of my training to the contrary. Mental issues I tell ya.

    Used to take him to a near by graveyard so that I could safely take him off of his leash to run and exercise until he was out of breath basically. I’d walk around the graveyard to be sure that no one else was around to get attacked by my insane dog.

    One day he was running about the graveyard, and he lunged at me out of the blue. I thought he was just rough housing until he lunged and bit me in the ear, drawing blood. So I punched him to get his attention and make him quit. He thought about it momentarily, then bared his teeth growling at me.

    There was a shovel ( thank God..) beside a freshly dug grave, so I grabbed it and commanded him to shut up and sit so I could put his leash on. He wasn’t having any of it that day, so it became a test of will and a shovel. It took 5 full, pounding swings before he relented. I thought I was going to have to beat my dog to death. It was awful. I took him home and wound up hugging him for about 20 minutes because I felt so bad.

    Dan had to be put to sleep. I had come to the ultimate conclusion. Too mean to live among people.

    I made arrangements to put him down after I returned from an emergency trip. My uncle agreed to keep Dan until I came back.

    2 days into my trip, my uncle called and said Dan had attacked him and tore up his house, so he put Dan outside and chained him to a doghouse he had in his backyard. He was concerned because it was snowing and it was 12 degrees, but he couldn’t do anything else.

    When I returned 3 days after the phone call from my uncle, Dan had froze to death inside the doghouse. He was a block of ice. I had to tear down the doghouse to get him out of it.

    I guess I recounted Dan’s story to affirm that one can’t show fear, even in heart wrenching situations? I’m not so sure now…. okay, yeah, no fear under any circumstances.

    Dealing with people can be extremely similar to dealing with dogs. Same rules and behaviors mostly apply.

    [youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em2LE0Sq840?feature=player_detailpage&w=640&h=360%5D

    [youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqn90iDgIgA?feature=player_detailpage&w=640&h=360%5D

    And my personal favorite….

    [youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlvuFOF1cJo?feature=player_detailpage&w=640&h=360%5D

  58. Anonymous Reader
    November 30th, 2015 at 11:29 am

    The brain mechanism to suppress desire does not get tired. What is in fact happening is that suppressing the desire for pain relief does not suppress the pain. You fix the pain and the need for pain relief goes away. No suppression required.

    ==================================

    And for those who brought it up. Please describe an addictive personality. What are the indicators? I have been asking this question for going on 15 years. I have never had a satisfactory answer. I usually get back circular logic. “An addictive personality is a personality subject to addiction.”

    Pain is subject to biochemistry (only about 20% of the population is subject to the symptoms/effects of PTSD for longer than 3 months). It is not subject to personality.

    ==================================

    There are no addictive personalities. There are no addictive drugs. There is only pain and pain relief.

    But a War On People In Pain would not be near as popular as the War On Addiction.

  59. As to reading the book you suggest. I have no means to acquire such an object.

    Really? Remarkable. I’m skeptical.

  60. “And for those who brought it up. Please describe an addictive personality. What are the indicators? I have been asking this question for going on 15 years. I have never had a satisfactory answer. I usually get back circular logic. “An addictive personality is a personality subject to addiction.”

    I’d say an addictive personality is a personality that becomes more easily fixated on (substances, behavior patterns, whatnot) than the average person.
    It could be a good addiction (example: exercise) or a bad one (examples: alcohol, smokes, wasting time on the internet, ect).

  61. Re: addictive drugs

    http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/heroin/what-are-long-term-effects-heroin-use

    I’ve known quite a few heroin addicts and opiates are very addictive dependent on strength and term of usage.

    I have deteriorating/degenerative disc issues with my back and my doc was concerned about the length of time I was using opiate pain meds.

    Long term usage of opiates especially can alter the perception of pain. Sometimes, even after the cause of pain has been healed, the perception of continued pain can/will remain, causing dependence.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/brain-changes-in-an-addict-make-it-hard-to-resist-heroin-and-similar-drugs/2014/02/14/dcc91c5e-9366-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html

  62. @M Simon

    There are no addictive personalities. There are no addictive drugs. There is only pain and pain relief.

    While that does show a feedback mechanism that leads to addictive behavior, such behavior can be sustained after the removal of pain through the formation of the habit. Addictions are habits that are pathological.

    It is healthy to seek relief from pain. It is unhealthy to continue the pain reliever after the pain is gone yet some people do so out of habit. This is what’s generally viewed as “addiction” in my experience. It’s a pathological habit, and it doesn’t just apply to drugs. It is a healthy habit to work hard yet some people work too much and suffer physically, psychologically, and socially.

    When a habit becomes pathological, it’s an addiction. Almost all successful attempts to escape addiction merely involve replacing negative habits with positive habits. So, an addictive personality would in my opinion be one that grew up without the discipline to practice good healthy habits.

  63. scribblerg
    November 30th, 2015 at 11:17 am

    Most of our difficulties these days are not due to an excess of anarchy. They are due to an excess of laws. There are so many that it has been estimated that a person commits 3 felonies a day. Effortlessly.

    Dictatorship assumes laws and enforcers will bring people into line. What it actually does is create a black market for what is prohibited. Look at the old Soviet Union. People had two personalities. One they exhibited to relatives and people they trusted. Another for public consumption. It in fact collapsed when the enforcement became insufficiently severe. People started exhibiting their private behavior in public.

    Enforcement is expensive. But the dictator can’t stop.

    I would much rather be inconvenienced by my neighbor holding bad beliefs than my government making efforts to prohibit such beliefs.

    I’m a libertarian. I do not support anarchy. I do favor very limited government. It was a founding principle of America. Limited government. The point is to have so few enforcers that they are incapable of being an occupying army – such as we have now. In fact in the early days we had no enforcers of note. Citizens had to complain of law breaking. And then something was done about it. We didn’t have enforcers roaming the streets.

  64. Sun Wukong
    November 30th, 2015 at 5:14 pm

    Habits unsupported by a biological mechanism are not difficult to break. Relapse happens when the underlying cause remains.

    You can detox a person from heroin in about 2 weeks. It is done all the time by our Drug Rehab industry. What the industry does not deal with is the underlying pain. Why should they? A relapsed “addict” is good for another round of treatment. Very profitable.

    What we are dealing with here is a very elaborate con. Maybe 100 years ago it wasn’t a con because the knowledge base was insufficient. It is a con now because the knowledge base is more than sufficient.

    For the most part drugs are a symptom, not a cause. You don’t fix such a problem by treating symptoms. If the underlying cause is untreatable continuation of pain relief is indicated. Just as end of life cancer should be treated.

    Before 1914 we used to leave people alone. The nation did not fall. I propose returning to that situation. In that era heroin and cocaine were over the counter.

    Also note: Post Civil War alcoholism was called “the soldiers disease”. And then the Progressive geniuses decided that they could “cure” alcoholism by Prohibition. Well, you know how that turned out. The cure was worse than the disease.

  65. M. Simon
    The brain mechanism to suppress desire does not get tired. What is in fact happening is that suppressing the desire for pain relief does not suppress the pain. You fix the pain and the need for pain relief goes away. No suppression required.

    Excerpt from the book you apparently cannot find, The Biology of Desire pp. 156 – 157 on the “horse and rider” view of psychology / brain action, any typos mine, emphasis is mine as well as bold:

    Cognitive control is a regulating signal that emerges from many parts of the brain and fans out to many other parts. It includes different channels, playing very different programs. The dorsolateral PFC does indeed perform some high-wire acts of cognitive organization, integration and selection. But rather than view it as the rider of a rebellious animal, we should see it as the bridge of a ship — where broad perspective allows for long range planning as well as short term steering. There are other prefontal regions, one around the lower midline and a pair of regious, one at each side, that generate more primitive kinds of control. Plus the ventral (southern) part of the anterior cingulate, just behind the prefrontal cortex, which tries to control behaviour from the midst of an emotional maelstrom. How are we to understand self-control and the loss of self-control, given these diverse systems?

    Neuroscience tells us that both addiction and eating disorders show hyperactivation of the dorsolateral PFC control system, the most sophisticated of the bunch, followed by deactivation – or, more accurately disconnenction – of the system from the motivational core of the brain. Alice’s compulsive bulimia, and late stage addiction in general, would show up as reduced activity in the dorsolatral PFC, and increased activity in the striatum, at least when temptation is at hand. Over time there would be less and less communication between the two structures. But that’s almost precisely the picture we see with ego fatique. Ego fatique shows the same disconnect, between the bridge of the ship and its motivational engines, and the same loss of control in volitional behaviour. The momentary state of ego fatique now looks like a microcosm of the enduring state we know as addiction.

    Addicts’ and bulimics attempts at self-control are contiuously underminded by ego fatique. And the neurosychological literature helps us to understand why. Pure suppression doesn’t work. It would seem that more primitive forms of self control, powered by lower regions of the prefrontal cortex, have taken over from higher regions such as the dorsolateral PFC. But all they can do is inhibit impulses, yank those reins mindlessly when anxiety surges. Bad move. That’s how you aggravate the horse.

    Putting these pieces together, it all starts to make sense: the dorsolateral PFC gets disconnected and deactivated because it’s been taken off the job. The powerful urges arising in the striatum seem to demand suppression, but that’s not on its resume’. So the job of self control is relegated to other, more ventral control systems. And those work less effectively. Like when you use the wrong muscles to hold your stomach in or your head up: you are cruising for a serious backache. The buildup of craving, the sense of impending failure that preceded Alice’s binges, sometimes went on for days. We can imagine her battling her urges bravely each hour during this period – relying, unfortunately, on the wrong parts of her brain.

    Ego fatique is highlighted above for a reason. I’ll be re-reading this book, with brain images to refer to, because I want to more fully understand it.

    Don’t argue with me, take it up with Marc Lewis, PhD, neuroscientist and professor of developmental psychology at Radboud University in the Netherlands, where he moved after 20 years at the University of Toronto.

    It could be, M. Simon, that your knowledge of neuroscience has not kept up with the ongoing research?

  66. @M Simon

    Uh… all habits have a biological component by definition. They’re the product of reinforcement of particular neural pathway in the brain. That’s why they’re so damned hard to change.

  67. Well, I closed the italics too soon. For those interested, the book excerpt is all of the italics plus the plain text down to Ego fatique in the 3rd paragraph from the bottom.

    Sun Wukong +1

    Neuroplasticity is a fact of the brain, and one of the strong arguments made in Desire this: learning is neuroplasticity in action, to claim that “brain changes” equals “addiction” is to label learning as “addiction”. In fact, the state of “being in love” clearly involves physical changes in the brain – is love an “addiction”?

    This demonstrates the fallacy of the “addiction as disease” model, the major theme of the book.

  68. TIny baby Field Report. Just got back from a branch bank where I had a bit of business to conduct, I entered the bank in a cheerful and masculine frame, determined to chat up anyone I met.

    There was a new 20-something teller with a pretty good blonde dye job who started off being friendly with me in a polite manner. She had to spend some time facing away from me, but peeked over her shoulder a time or two to see if I was looking at her – yes, dearie, you’re quite pleasant to look at.

    There was an issue with a printer, she and another 20-something began fiddling with it while apologizing and getting flustered. I was cheerful and not in a hurry, clearly willing to spend more time around them while bantering about their lack of skills with machines. When my document printed they all cried “Hooray”, however it wasn’t correct. This brought a third woman in, she was more business like being closer to The Wall, and after more flustering, the document was presented to me by the blonde with an apology for the delay. I lasered her while thanking, and she blinked at me, then quickly turned to obtain the cash I’d withdrawn. She counted it out, then I counted it while saying “Nothing personal, of course”.

    Well, blondey fell all over herself to assure me that it was just fine, we like it when customers check our work! Then more eye contact as she asked if there was anything else she could do for me? I lasered her back and said, thanks, no, not now, but…maybe some other time. Oh, of course! Yes!

    I wished her a very good day and took my leave. Two other women in the bank wished me a good day on my way out. Basic frame, masculine attitude, a bit of teasing, playing with them and playing WITH them, voila! some very clear IOI’s in return. Not to mention excellent, personalized service.

    A tiny example of attitude selling. Maintain frame at all times, it’s always good.

  69. Eye contact observation: I haven’t made a real study of it so maybe I’m totally wrong, but casually it seems to me the younger Millennial men, the 20 somethings, really don’t do eye contact very much. Not to other men, not to women.

    Maybe that’s why these young women respond so strongly to it?

  70. Anon Reader,

    ” Eye contact observation: I haven’t made a real study of it so maybe I’m totally wrong, but casually it seems to me the younger Millennial men, the 20 somethings, really don’t do eye contact very much. Not to other men, not to women.

    Maybe that’s why these young women respond so strongly to it?”

    I’ve noticed this also quite routinely. I’m not sure why it is that a majority of 20 somethings shy away from direct eye contact, but it can be frustrating for me and I can only imagine what it does ( or doesn’t do ) for women in their age group. Lots of looking down and looking away, even when speaking to you they usually will not look at you.

  71. A bit of an off topic question, but when a girl gets drunk does this turn her hypergamy filters ‘off’ as girls are more approachable and easy to fuck even for lower value men when they are drunk. And doesn’t this put them at risk if they do choose to go out and drink.. Why would they do it as opposed to going out and being in control.

  72. ” . . . it can be frustrating for me . . .”

    On the other hand, it’s an auto-AMOG for us more “mature” men.

    “Why would they do it as opposed to going out and being in control.”

    Because they want to get laid.

  73. Paul,

    Plausible deniability.

    Hypergamy is a real as fiat currency. Fiat currency is not truly real, yet people will murder and maim for specific sums of fake cash. Therefore it’s ” unrealness ” is nullified by others willingness to acknowledge and act.

    Chicks normally like and want sex. Social pressure to not commit sluttery, along with their false sense of entitlement gets lowered along with inhibitions via alcoholic beverage in mass quantities.

    So, it depends on the chick and how smashed she is as to how low she will go.

    Remember, the talk of height and muscles and six packs and all of the bullshit requirements women spout when they have full control of their faculties are not what they REALLY desire in many cases. But, they mostly control the game and the illusion. For now.

    Young women fantasize. It’s amazing what they fantasize about. And common opinion is that males have the twisted sex drive. So, sometimes, all of the ” no short/ugly/poor/unfashionable/dumb men ” requirements get blasted all to hell when they do also.

    I’ve watched 2 completely ” straight ” women go from kissing to eating each other out with vigor while under the influence. Later, the alcohol was deemed the culprit.

    I’ve been blown numerous times while attempting to drive drunk chicks home without so much as a light blowjob conversation. That’s followed by a next-day convo along the lines of ” you must think I’m a slut… I NEVER do stuff like that…etc. etc. etc..”.

    Lol, if you could read their minds literally you would shake your head until you got a concussion.

  74. Oh, I forgot –

    CAUTION in 2015 re: fucking drunk chicks.

    The FI is rapidly gaining traction in defining sex with a drunk chick as rape. Their next day regrets are swiftly becoming legally actionable. just because she downed a pint of Jack and proceeded to rim you does not guarantee that you will not require legal counsel.

    Proceed with extreme caution and knowledge.

  75. “Eye contact observation: I haven’t made a real study of it so maybe I’m totally wrong, but casually it seems to me the younger Millennial men, the 20 somethings, really don’t do eye contact very much. Not to other men, not to women.

    Maybe that’s why these young women respond so strongly to it?”

    I didn’t get good at eye contact until I had to learn frame/dominance with others for my job, and my GF at the time pointed it out to me a lot. More than any other thing I improved (and there were many things,) she praised how good my eye contact had gotten.

    Lol, she was a funny one that way. Swore my eyes had all the colors of the rainbow (they’re blue with flecks of yellow, no other colors there), taught me how to hug a girl properly, and would pick up one of my hands, put it palm-to-palm with hers, and admire how much bigger mine was. If I laughed at her she’d glower – “It’s important!

    And yet, she refused to follow my lead. Too scary. I’ve gotten better at all this since then tho….

    Kinda plays into Glenn’s comment earlier. Girls need dominant men to be happy, generally speaking. I sometimes feel bad for young women these days. There’s only so much of me to go around….

  76. Forge,

    Eyes, hands and voice.

    Lucky for me I guess, I’ve always made strong eye contact. Guys I grew up with, other men in my family, they demanded it. When I was a kid/young teen, I can’t tell you how many times I heard ” Look at me when I’m talking to you…” or when I was instructed to ” Go up to him/her and look them straight in the eyes..”.

    When I’ve asked women what it is about eyes or hands, I’ve always gotten different answers. So that’s something I’m still trying ( half-heartedly ) to figure out.

    I too agree with Glenn about women needing dominant men to be happy.

    I find my interactions with younger chicks to be relatively easy. Yes, you can tell that they are not used to being looked at in the eyes and that they usually respond well to the creation of a dominant atmosphere. I am a HUGE fan of what I call the ” fidgets “. When they get all fidgety and start babbling nervously. But with older women there is more of a look of comfort in the presence of dominance, even happiness.

    Of course, this does not apply to chicks with active bitch-mode running.

  77. Blax,

    I think that eyes, hands, voice are basically how a woman feels your sexuality. They’re how you stare at her, how you grab/hold her, and how you command her.

    YaReally’s gone in depth about the ‘laser eyes’ idea. I’ve heard it opined by a man that if you take a girl’s hand and she begins to feel/stroke yours, she’s DTF and I have yet to see that disproven.

    I don’t have a crazy masculine voice so I’ve never much thought about that one. This same girl loved it that I liked to sing, even though I did so strictly as an amateur. That could be more about the non-inhibitedness it represented, though.

    The younger girls tend to babble and fidget because of overwhelming libido. That seems to diminish quickly with age, as they learn some degree of control. To bad, I love a girl when she’s overwhelmed by her own feelings.

  78. Forge,

    Agreed. Especially with this-” I think that eyes, hands, voice are basically how a woman feels your sexuality. They’re how you stare at her, how you grab/hold her, and how you command her.”

    I used to try and downplay my hands on thing with women. Not so much anymore because it is a part of me, so it is not worth it to censor myself too much. It holds the great possibility of landing me in a shitload of trouble… but wtf?

    I never, ever handle a woman with kid gloves. Lol. I don’t grab them too hard, but I grab them hard enough. I enjoy it. I know the FI is trying desperately to have guys like me jailed and shamed, but that just adds to my fun.

    It’s a good thing, men making women feel their sexuality. Fuck the chicks that find it odd or whatever, some chicks are just not sexually in tune. Their loss. Most women are in tune though, and it’s a blast to get signals that they are feeling your vibe.

    It’s natural and it’s as it should be.

    YaReally is dead on about women stroking men’s hands and vice versa. There’s a woman at my job who’s always grabbing my hand and rubbing her thumb against it. At first I didn’t think much of it until she started leaning into me to speak while holding my hand.

    But I do the eye/hand thing all day, every day. Especially to strangers everywhere. I want to see a reaction. Luckily the worst that’s come of it is a chick pulling her hand away.

    Is it about validation in some way? I dunno. I’m torn on that. Maybe it is, in the sense that I’m validating that I’m a man, dominant, and I’m betting that I know what women like. Hands on is my field experiment, so to speak. Lmao…..

    Life is very interesting.

  79. @Liz and IAS

    Thanks for the recommended links to the red pill women sites this morning. They should align with the SIL’s interests.

  80. @SJF

    QUOTE:

    “Wow, I noticed in real life two weeks ago that people were really starting to get wound up to be bat-shit anxious and crazy for the holiday season, but today’s posts really proves it with all the contentiousness.

    So I will join in and be contentious.

    “Rocket, why do you prefer prostitutes over the genuine desire of a woman who is into fucking you unsolicited? Granted, you’ll pay for sex in some form or another regardless of how you go about it
    ……. if you’d say it’s because it’s a simpler matter than to hope you can play Alpha well enough convince a woman to genuinely be aroused by you, well, I can definitely see your point.”

    I think he answered that with his ego-invested endorsement of that shitty Reddit post. Answer: Because he sucks at Looks-Height-Race”

    So I’ll answer SJF … the two faced lying asshole. SJF don’t know shit about me or my situation or my attitude. He’s a fucking dick. A prick of the worst kind, making assumptions about people and posting “anonymous” comments on a board trying to discredit people to make him feel better about his self, assuming he’s a he.

    But ok, blame it on the holiday season, but really I’m just responding in kind. SJF is a fuck-tard and I’m taking him on. Dude you’re an asshole. And yeah I will meet you in real life and will kick your fucking ass.

    So what SJF, is your dick 5 inches long or what ? Or maybe you’re like Eadsgamer and you’re 70 yrs old and haven’t been laid by someone other than your wife … and yeah eads, you’re gaming your own wife we get it, in like 20 years. Or maybe you don’t get laid at all. Well you fucked up cunt, I do. You may not agree with the methods I use but I don’t live my life for you, you prick. I live my life for me. And by that measure I’m doing pretty fine. So go fuck yourself.

  81. FOLLOW UP: I’m specifically responding to SJF’s comment about me:

    “I think he answered that with his ego-invested endorsement of that shitty Reddit post. Answer: Because he sucks at Looks-Height-Race”

    Truth is, SJF knows absolutely nothing about me or my situation. The dude is an asshole. Well, you’d consider him an asshole if he made such accusations about you.

    I’m just responding in-kind. He attacked first. If the limp dicked faggot can’t defend himself, its not my problem.

    SJF, you want an apology … then issue one. To me.

  82. I will follow this up with one thing. Don’t know where the animosity came from … don’t know if its from the holidays or what … but I will say this. I do not deal well with being disrespected. So I will take my attention elsewhere if this is allowed as acceptable behavior. And I will repeat SJFs own words:

    “I think he answered that with his ego-invested endorsement of that shitty Reddit post. Answer: Because he sucks at Looks-Height-Race”

    And I repeat, this dude knows NOTHING about me.

    Am I pissed ? Judge for yourself.

  83. @Sun

    lol

    @Rocket

    Let me express this explicitly.

    I like your content. It gives me insight into a life circumstance I’m unfamiliar with, and it shows some degree of initiative. But the random rages when provoked cast more than slight doubt on your overall contentment with your circumstances.

    Rather than being confident in your choices, you seem pretty sensitive about them. Hence the flack. Maybe that’s just your way of interacting, but it does seem pretty volatile.

    I only say as much because I think you’re solid enough to hear this. Otherwise I wouldn’t bother.

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