Attitude Sells

attitude_sells

There are many attitudinal and subtle behavior traits that manifest in men who are presented with options or enjoy even casual social proof. I’m not sure a lot of guys really realize just how sensitive women are to those ‘tells’. You will do things, say things, without thinking about them that indicate on a limbic level what you believe about yourself. Women have evolved to perceive the smallest cues and subtlest of hints – to the point it’s a subconscious subroutine running in their background processing of information about you when they’re not even cognitively aware of it.

They may not be able to consciously put a finger on it, but on some level of consciousness these tells are informing a woman’s limbic understanding of your SMV.

I’ve gone back and forth about covert communications vs. overt communications on this blog over the years. There is a certain school of Game that teaches a bold, direct action wherein a guy overtly inserts himself into that woman’s immediate experience and I can certainly see the merits of it.

Law 28
Enter into action with boldness

If you are unsure of a course of action, do not attempt it. Your doubts and hesitations will infect your execution. Timidity is dangerous: better to enter with boldness. Any mistakes you commit through audacity are easily corrected with more audacity. Everyone admires the bold; no one honors the timid.

There is a certain gravitas that accompanies an extroverted approach with women, the trick is not coming off as a ‘try hard’ and overplaying it, thereby overtly confirming your following a script. When you don’t believe it’s you it’s a pretty good bet she doesn’t either.

A lot of proponents of this in-your-face approach will tell you it’s the only way a “real” man should interact with women; boldly and confidently, and entirely on his terms. And while I agree with this, how you go about effecting that can vary depending on context and condition.

When a guy is initially establishing Frame and drawing the woman (women) of his choosing into his reality, that overt, direct approach can be the deciding factor for a woman’s acquiescing to his Frame. Caught up in the moment (such as an ‘insta-date’ or an encounter she wasn’t expecting) and charging her with an immediate rush of endorphins, a woman’s Hypergamous filtering process gets overridden by that excitement. This is the same principle operating behind planning dates with an excitement factor involved (rock climbing, sky diving, are both exaggerations, but you get the idea) – an emotional attachment paired with an endorphin rush associates that ‘feeling’ with you.

There’s a tendency I think for Red Pill aware men to view women’s Hypergamous / Solipsistic natures as hinderances to men effecting their own interests with them. Shit tests, filtering, sexual prospect comparison and a whole host of other conscious and subconscious vetting inherent to women seems like an insufferable waste of effort for men. However, while Hypergamy may define the rules of the game it’s important for men to understand how to work it to their advantage in both a direct approach and in understanding the subtle filtering that women do.

I’ve read more than a few ‘dating gurus’ define this “being direct with her” approach as the only legitimate form of Game. A Real Man® sees what he wants and goes out and boldly gets it. The problem is that this attitude gets tied to The Male Catch 22 and any derivation is compared with unmanliness.

As I said, while I agree there’s merit to this directness, it shouldn’t be done at the cost of understanding how women subconsciously vet and filter to better discern a man’s (perceptively) true sexual market value to her – as well as how she contrasts his SMV to her self-perceived SMV. There is nothing “unmanly” about having a curiosity for how the female mind works and then using that understanding to your advantage.

Maintaining Frame

It’s one thing to draw that woman into your reality and your psychological Frame, it’s another to maintain this Frame once she’s stepped into it.

I went into some of the subtle ‘tells’ about a man’s SMV in Alpha Tells and Beta Tells and the subcommunication messaging that transfers between men and women. In these posts I described the process beneath those tells and what’s being communicated in them. One thing I believe even Red Pill aware men subscribe to is the idea that their Frame can only be maintained by the same overt and bluntly direct means that helped them create it.

This is the root of men’s initial anxiety of having to upkeep their Red Pill “act”; “Red Pill is impossible to float all the time! What? Am I expected to Game my LTR forever?” The answer of course is internalizing Red Pill awareness into one’s personality, but one thing that also goes along with that is the manifesting of behaviors that help maintain your Frame.

Women pick up on behavioral cues, attitude, how things affect you, how you apply yourself to a task, how you deal with adversity and certainly the interplay you engage in with her while playing with her. If you’re thinking that women wanting men who Just Get It is all direct Game and all above board you need to reconsider that quite a bit of women’s filtering occurs when you’re not ‘on‘ and she’s casually picking up on your behavioral cues.

She want’s you to ‘get it’ on your own, without having to be told how. That initiative and the experience needed to have had developed it makes you a Man worth competing for. Women despise a man who needs to be told to be dominant. Overtly relating this to a guy entirely defeats his credibility as a genuinely dominant male. The guy she wants to fuck is dominant because that’s ‘the way he is’ instead of who she had to tell him to be.

Observing the process will change it. This is the root function of every shit test ever devised by a woman. If masculinity has to be explained to a man, he’s not the man for her.

Much of a woman’s vetting process takes place in her hindbrain. It’s very easy for most guys in western(ized) culture to presume that hot, but vapid, women are too oblivious to really pay much attention to this process. Lost in their hedonism and self-affirmations it’s easy to believe that those processes aren’t as influential in hook-ups as they might be in a long term arrangement, but trust that even though they might be under the surface they are being processed.

Mindset

It’s a Tomassi Maxim now, but bears repeating; Alpha is a mindset, not a demographic. I’ve explained what I mean by this on many occasions, but when it comes to what I consider the abstraction that is Alpha it can primarily be reduced to a particular mindset of masculine dominance and confidence.

I wont belabor this here again, but suffice to say that while I believe there is a natural component to it, I do think that to varying degrees this Alpha mindset, or something approaching it, is a learnable state for men. That said, I also think men need to use caution when when evaluating how to go about cultivating and internalizing this mindset.

It’s very easy to get caught up in the hope for a magic solution to your problems in life. There’s no shortage of motivational speakers and charismatic ‘self-help’ gurus ready to sell you a book, or a sermon, or some self-styled social movement promising to show you how to develop this “winners’ mindset”. It’s important to bear in mind that any mindset you learn is only as legitimate as the realities that inform it.

A lot of hate directed at PUAs, motivational speakers, pastors or even your parents can be traced back to their failings in understanding simple evidential realities. Their hopeful formulas for your success end up being frustrations and anxieties when they’ve proven to fail you because you invest yourself in part, or in whole, in them.

Much of what constitutes Blue Pill conditioning is founded in the same misgivings. It’s very easy to hype up and sensationalize Blue Pill idealisms in ‘optimism’ soaked rhetorics, but these hopes are easily dispelled with a Red Pill aware lens. That’s one reason the Red Pill can be bitter – it’s a real buzz kill when you’re high on Blue Pill optimism.

The primary reason I’ve always been reluctant to be prescriptive with Red Pill awareness in practice is because I’ve always believed that the Red Pill is never going to be one size fits all. While Red Pill truths are universal, their application is subjective to the man employing them. How he develops the mindset that best serves him is contextual to his own circumstance.

That said, I think a pragmatic approach based on Red Pill awareness and the fundaments that make it up would serve men best in developing a Red Pill mindset that works for him. You might think that in light of my recent Purple Pill post that I’m alluding to the ‘coaches’ and re-definers of the Red Pill in all this, but lots of “Red Pill” men are actually Purple Pill hoping that some of the old rules might still apply.

While I emphatically recognize the power of positive thought in altering one’s mindset and changing the course of one’s life, I also understand that zeal for change needs to be tempered with a healthy skepticism. If you find yourself being swept up in a tide of super-optimism that’s the time to question the foundations of it. Positive, motivational memes can become clichéd aphorisms when those foundations are proven to be false.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

401 comments on “Attitude Sells

  1. Once clarification on my post above. She posted her Ad on Tues and that’s when I took her to dinner. Got together for real the next Sunday.

    Also want to say that I haven’t been here in a week or so. Said some things that were out of line and probably owe a couple of dudes an apology. Never went back and looked, maybe I took flack already. Don’t know, don’t care. So, yeah maybe I was out of line. Sue me, I’m human. Apologies to whoever I offended.

    Peace and everyone have a good Thanksgiving !!!

  2. @Thoroughbred November 25th, 2015 at 8:33 pm

    Hey, check out “Is Seduction Real”

    http://therationalmale.com/2012/07/13/is-seduction-real/

    Rollo: “There’s a PUA idiom that states 80% of seduction is simply not fucking up what’s already there. Attraction is not a choice – however, what you do from there is entirely up to you.

    I think people get hung up on the word “seduction.” It conjures up melodramatic associations of doing something nefarious to tempt someone into doing something against their own interests. In some instances that may be the case, but far more often seduction is really just selling yourself effectively by manipulating the emotions and psychologies of others. Politicians, religious leaders, salesmen, etc. are all seducers of varying shades. There’s a very blurry line between influence and seduction, but in both cases there’s a willing participant always present. No seduction, or call-to-action was ever consummated with a person who wasn’t already somewhat desirous of being seduced.”

  3. @kfg

    “I read a few paragraphs of the book’s website and felt like someone was gagging me with a syphilitic spoon. Deida is a New Age woman. I can see why Lee Lee would like it and finally be free to feel like girl after reading it. He writes for girls.”

    It is actually quite voluminous but also concise. There is more content in the actual book and the Amazon samples of chapters are definitely “written for girls”. It is contextual and mostly for LTR based relationships. Like I said it gagged me way back when I didn’t have red pill awareness, but was not quite blue pill at all–just in a fog. With red pill awareness it takes on a whole new meaning, and fills in a lot of blanks for me. Taken with a few grains of salt to offset the syrup it definitely is worth the read for male relationship game. I mean some of it is just “be New Age 1997 girly man masculine, red pill well-aware (of masculine and feminine natures) and fuck her good”. One could read a lot worse.

    It does read like Deida is a New Age feminine man, no doubt. But if you can overlook that (which is do-able because of its concise chapters) it really has some decent prototypical manosphere insights. A lot of the same connect the dots themes are well covered by Rollo and Roissy and they are complemented by Deida’s retro red pill writings.

    It’s not that I have significant ego investment in it. It just turned me on to some good mindset in LTR game. More able to tolerate shit tests and be less emotionally incompetent (which I have been). No one told me this shit 20 years ago and I ignored it 10 years ago. It helps me now. (OK, maybe I do have ego-investment in it. 🙂 )

  4. It is actually quite voluminous but also concise.

    Concise in what sense? The parts I have read are extremely repetitive. That is, he repeats himself a lot. Or you could note that he says the same thing over and over again. And sometimes he writes something he already wrote. That is, he tends to recycle his words. That’s the opposite of concise. It becomes tedious, especially on top of the whole drum-circle, men in the woods, New Age, woo-woo tone.

    Plus he asserts that women do not lie. That is not true. It is counterfactual.

    Go look at the reviews on Amazon, and count how many are from women vs. from men. That’s informative, too.

    Nothing wrong with many of Deida’s basic ideas, to be sure, as a counter to the standard feminist blank slate lie. But there are better teachers now, IMO.

  5. @walawala

    Waiting for IOI’s is a girl thing, it basically means you’re waiting for people’s permission to approach them, barring which you’re just gonna lay low.

    I’m not gonna front I still have this mindset a lot. But I’m trying to lose it because going after the things you want is a reward in itself.

  6. Concise in that each chapter is 2 to 3 pages long (average of 3) for 50 chapters.

    I agree with your assessment. It is unpalatable to most males used to reading in the manosphere for sure.

    It’s just that I read it now and my brain kind of peels away at the New Age woo-woo shit (which is definitely there) with a Roissy-esque shiv knife to strip away the goo to get the basic ideas.

    1. Field report
      About to sleep. However I just got back from approaching 3 girls this evening. One in particular was fun to dance with. Her name was austin and I asked where she was from and she replied Texas and than I said “Yareally?” She looked puzzled and I started laughing and than she got closer for an embrace. We danced and it happened without thinking. That’s three girls.

      More I’m out more I realize the importance of being open to improvement.

  7. charging her with an immediate rush of endorphins

    This can happen spontaneously with no overt signaling. Pheromones. You are actually exuding your attitude all the time.

    The LTR and I were getting some take out one time and a gay girl came on to me telling me how attracted to me she was. The LTR was amused. It had already happened to her a few years back. BTW the gay girl’s partner was mega pissed.

    This happens with enough frequency that the LTR is amused by it (women getting stupid in my presence). I’m not rock star good at it (5 or 10 times a day). But it does happen once or twice a year.

    I grew up Beta and this never used to happen to me until I changed my attitude (age 18 – my first GF taught me the rudiments of game).

    Your attitude determines how you smell. Women’s sense of smell is more acute than a man’s.

  8. I’m reposting this from a dead thread:
    *********************************************

    I saw an Alpha/Beta relationship work once. My Mom and Dad. Dad did all the usual Alpha tricks “Look at those tits.” He was a natural.

    He was also the consummate Beta house guy. (some evenings and most weekends)

    So how did they get it to work? My mother was able to do something “modern” feminism is not ready for. In fact they no longer know how. SURRENDER to my Dad.

    What used to be taught to women: Find the right man (your family will restrict you in some cultures). Surrender to him. Surrender to the wrong man can be very dangerous.

    Men used to be taught: “Give her what she wants only after total surrender.”

    All that used to be institutionalized in marriage.

    =================

    I’m leaving this here in the hopes it won’t be lost.

  9. Re: Your attitude determines how you smell.

    It ought to be possible to do a GC/MS on the smells people exude. This could be chemically tested. Then companies would spring up promising to teach you to be more Alpha and testing you before and after to prove it. Or there might be an “Alpha pill”.

    All that might cause longer noses for women to be selected for. More area for receptors. Giving a better chance to detect “fakes”. The “faking” might work for a generation or two.

  10. @Rollo

    I’m not playing I’m trying to help.

    Ok, so the 5-stages of grieving is nothing new here. Great to see. In my defense, it is not reasonable to pretend that I could read all previous entries of this blog, so many and I don’t have time. So I picked the line of reasoning opened by the last entries and tried to elaborate from there. The discourse in the manosphere goes often in circles anyway, it is not the first time a read “attitude sells” somewhere. In fact I don’t think it can be called RP wisdom at all. At least in my case, I’ve always been aware of that. But I believe it is nice to see someone bringing the point, because it can help others who are oblivious about it.

    All in all, this comments section looks like a brain storming place where sometimes people moves ahead and sometimes step back. As far as I know, truth it is the only thing that matters even it has been said before.

    @SFJ

    Thanks for the nice comments. I’m not new here, I’ve been a reader for a while. And from some other RP blogs and forums in my native language before discovering this. No hard feelings for me. I wouldn’t like others to be hurt because of what I said though. I’m not trying to contradict or invalidate nothing, in fact I agree with 99% that is been said in RM.

  11. Boldness…it’s easier when you’re not invested either emotionally or financially. My best moments were when I really didn’t care. My worst moments were when I started to care. I’m now struggling with this because not caring feels “strange”—it’s residual codependency that I’ve been working to overcome.

    I’m involved in a variety of businesses and projects and have to stop myself when I do my pitches to avoid sounding needy and employ “assume the sale”.

    instead of “Would you like to join?’ it’s “Join!” instead of “Would you like to come out?” I’m employing “Come out!”

    The results in my sales are interesting. Far from being “turned off” the responses from my target customers is more positive and those who aren’t interested simply say “Thanks I’m busy”. Many qualify themselves. “I can’t because I’m away that day”.

    Apply the same to game and you have the same results…”Let’s meet for drinks” produces an instant response. “Would you like to meet for drinks sometime?” is blah.

    I still find myself over-explaining but that comes off as passion and enthusiasm rather than “Try hard” if done from a positive, dominant frame.

    But…it “feels” weird, just like being up front and sexualizing with girls felt “Weird” at first.

  12. @walawala:

    ” “Would you like to meet for drinks sometime?” produces an instant response . . .”

    . . . of yes or no.

    Remember the old salesman trick of offering a choice that assumes the sale when you are ready to close:

    “Do you want the blue one or the red one?”
    “Let’s go meet for drinks, Joe’s Place or Franks?”

    The only direct answer to these questions is yes or yes.

  13. @ walawala

    Boldness…it’s easier when you’re not invested either emotionally or financially. My best moments were when I really didn’t care. My worst moments were when I started to care.

    Some women take advantage of men who invest too much emotionally–maneaters. They put claws in your emotions. It’s a pain learning to deal with them.

  14. The greatest dilemma for me is that the red pill is often used in a negative way.

    Some guys use the red pill knowledge to convince themselves how horrible women are and they are not worth it.

    Or they convince themselves to just superficially interact with them instead from opening up to emotional intimacy. “I just use them”

    Fact is as blue pill men we were not good either. We wanted to control women by submission and moralistic blackmailing. “Look I am such a good guy and I do everything for you so you have to love me.” Often a subconscious way to repeat the relationship to our mother and convince us that we aren’t that bad. That is not nice, that is psychotic. We did not nor have now a moralistic high stand.

    I urge you to don’t trap yourself in bitterness and hate towards women. They may want to control and use us, but just like we wanted to control them. They have fears and insecurities like we did. They are not bad, nor horrible, just unconscious.

    Only when you accept yourself fully you can accept women and then you can use the red pill in a positive way.

  15. Or, just be confident and quit worrying what nasty American women think about you….Who cares. I don’t chase them, don’t PUA them and don’t inflate their hypergalactic egos one cintilla. I’ve still managed to be with so many I’ve lost count over the years by doing this. Hmmmm…..Strange how that works. Stop chasing, ignore them sometimes and just live your own interesting life.

  16. @Rocket

    Lol, ya we kinda tore you up last week. It’s not the content it’s the tone. You sound much more sure of yourself this time around. It’s not my strategy (I’m young and poor lol) but glad it’s working out for ya.

    @MSimon

    Thanks for posting forward! Sometimes it’s hard to decide when to re-post something when a thread just dies on ya. I’ve written a few times about the few marriage relationships I’ve seen to really work well, and it’s interesting stuff. I do have to conclude that very happy marriages just aren’t all that accessible to most people – the people in very happy marriages are invariably well-matched, very attractive, and generally fortunate in life. Contentment is possible for most people, but nowadays women are told that that isn’t enough and so they blow up merely content marriages, causing much misery.

    Re: smell – I was just debating this the other day with SJF. He thought it was unlikely that smell could influence much. I disagreed. My argument was more about how smell influences men however – when I get a whiff of some girls I get a distinct rush that makes me euphoric and aggressive – a distinctly different sense than I get from visual or tactile stimulation.

    Not much science on this yet, will be interesting to see how that develops over time.

  17. “Re: smell – I was just debating this the other day with SJF. He thought it was unlikely that smell could influence much.”

    Heheh, though, what do I know. I’m undoubtedly a pheromonal beta and my nose is not that skilled, nor is my hind, mid-limbic or fore-brain skillful enough or thirsty enough to pick up or discriminate feminine pheromones. Best ignore what I argued. “Too much noise around to discriminate” was my argument.
    Umm, sorry?

  18. Other guys are better looking, bigger, taller, more jacked, whiter, richer, with nicer suits (especially when he started out VS now that he’s loaded) etc than this guy…so why do girls buy him $50,000 watches?

    What is he offering that those other guys aren’t? It’s clearly not external.

    That was an interesting video. Also interesting, I should add, is the description at the end by Jake Adelstein about the mundane reality of host clubs. It seems to be a classic example of one form of social dysfunction leading to another. It’s amusing to watch the things societies do to abolish themselves.

  19. @kfg: “Just thought I’d mention that I’m thankful for the work that Rollo has put into The Rational Male.”

    Fucking-A!!!!

    To Rollo, for helping me on my way to not having to dodge bullets!

  20. @danielkad:

    “Some guys use the red pill knowledge to convince themselves how horrible women are and they are not worth it.”

    Key word here is ‘SOME’. Probably those who are still looking to blue pill heaven, the ‘nice guy rapture’ as it were…especially after having their eyes ripped open by RP knowledge and consciousness.
    Their eyes heart and they long for the lies of the past.

    RP helps us appreciate women, within specific context and perspective.

    “Or they convince themselves to just superficially interact with them instead from opening up to emotional intimacy.”

    I see red flags when I read statements like this. “Emotional intimacy” is a slippery slope, for a man, especially it is being done without a red pill filter.

    “We wanted to control women by submission”
    Submission is innate to women, if you’re that type of dude that is.

    “I urge you to don’t trap yourself in bitterness and hate towards women”.
    RP men are not bitter at or hate women, most of us anyway. We are, however, bitter at the circumstance that we find ourselves in due to years of programming that is counter to our true nature. A lot of time invested in appeasing the FI, missed sex opportunities, the stress of trying to hold to fiction when the reality beats you to a pulp everyday.

    “They may want to control and use us, but just like we wanted to control them.”
    What?!

    “They have fears and insecurities like we did.”
    No, they do not. Men and women do not experience the same reality. We enter theirs or they enter ours. End of!

  21. @Thoroughbred

    “I have noticed that sometimes there are such vast differences in my behavioural output in my initial interactions with women I have approached that are so divorced from my actual emotional state, that I have to consider some form of subconscious action in play.

    When I approach some women I “beta out”. It’s not that I feel particularly intimidated by this woman, but it seems like a part of me it screening myself out for her, through no intention of my own.

    Other times, I pull off an effortless interaction so flawlessly, and engage a woman’s attraction parameters so thoroughly, I seriously have to stop to wonder why. Level of attraction or interest from me to her doesn’t seem to be a factor here.

    It leads me to conclude that there is some subconscious selection going on, both sides of the fence and that there is a reason why some approaches go better than others.

    Has anyone else experienced this?”

    There’s a lot of things going on with this sort of thing. In the end it comes down to state and subcomms.

    You say that your interest in her doesn’t seem to be a factor. That’s probably good, since it means you’re not behaving weird or necessitous towards woman you’re attracted to. At least not always, you said above that that sometimes you ‘beta out,’ so since this doesn’t happen consistently it’s likely due to your subconscious evaluation of your status in a specific environment/state/circumstance. A good skill to learn is how to regulate your own state better – observe what makes you feel beta and what makes you feel alpha, and try and flip yourself from one to the other as circumstance dictates (usually it’ll dictate flipping from beta to alpha lol). I’m no master at it, but it does seem to get easier with practice.

    What likely is a factor is her attraction to you. Women will make things abundantly easy for a man she’s attracted to generally (unless she’s consciously opposed to the attraction). She’ll open herself to you, excuse your small screw-ups, try to keep you hooked. I have two girls that are sub-communicating attraction towards me right now, and one of them is I think curious about and open to trying to fuck me, and I can’t hardly end conversations with her. As soon as I pull back she’ll throw something else out to grab my attention. The other one is consciously opposed to trying to fuck me (she’s aiming for a BB currently and doesn’t want to fuck it up lol) and she aggressively drives my attention away. Trying to mate-guard herself basically. But somehow she keeps on being around….

    Overall it sounds like you’re looking at the right sorts of things. If you’re being congruent to yourself, some people will love you and some will be indifferent and some just won’t like you. That’s the way it is. Being kinda-liked by everyone by being pleasant is the way of the beta. This eventually becomes a part of a congruent man’s filtering system. Some people don’t work for you. Next. Scribblerg and I were talking about that earlier upthread.

  22. “There is nothing “unmanly” about having a curiosity for how the female mind works and then using that understanding to your advantage.”

    I’ve had an Ex (LTR) of mine who knows I study and apply red pill, and after years of practice, it’s become part of my mindset. I simply have changed myself.. for the better. It’s gotten under her skin so badly, knowing the very information I discovered largely led to our split.

    Naturally the usual shaming has followed. While I have her blocked from my phone, I’ve gotten literally a year’s worth of emails denouncing me. Funny how she finds my value high enough to emotionally hold onto the “new me” and refuse to let go, despite me letting go of her.

    “You’re a douche still gaming women at your age.”
    “Real men don’t think like that, those sites you read are full of losers.”
    “You’ll never treat a woman as your equal, you’re doomed to fail.”
    “You’re a monster for leaving me, I’ve seen your new bitches and they can’t touch my looks and what I have to offer.”

    ^^^ this is a great tell as to knowing you’re applying the knowledge well. The truly bad choice women you dump just can’t get over you. You picked the lock to many of their instincts, and it’s very powerful.

  23. @ Forge

    The other one is consciously opposed to trying to fuck me (she’s aiming for a BB currently and doesn’t want to fuck it up lol) and she aggressively drives my attention away. Trying to mate-guard herself basically. But somehow she keeps on being around….

    Re: “she aggressively drives my attention away”

    How does she do this? Could she be shit testing you?

    It sounds to me like she might be conflicted and you need to spike her buying temp and provide a rationale for her to put you in the AF category and bang you.

  24. @ GRock

    Funny how she finds my value high enough to emotionally hold onto the “new me” and refuse to let go, despite me letting go of her….this is a great tell as to knowing you’re applying the knowledge well. The truly bad choice women you dump just can’t get over you. You picked the lock to many of their instincts, and it’s very powerful.

    Well done.

    These are fun to demolish.

    “You’re a douche still gaming women at your age.”

    You: The Creepy Old Guys Club is having a meeting next week. We’re supposed to bring our exes.

    “Real men don’t think like that, those sites you read are full of losers.”

    You: Yep, fucking a beautiful 18 y.o. girl makes me feel like a total loser.

    “You’ll never treat a woman as your equal, you’re doomed to fail.”

    You: Lol, I think I’ll start pushing drugs.

    “You’re a monster for leaving me, I’ve seen your new bitches and they can’t touch my looks and what I have to offer.”

    You: …

  25. @asd

    Heh, champ replies re: GRock’s girl.

    “How does she do this? Could she be shit testing you?

    It sounds to me like she might be conflicted and you need to spike her buying temp and provide a rationale for her to put you in the AF category and bang you.”

    She drives my attention away by being aggressively dismissive of things I say, and by trying to order me around. She’s sweet as a bell to most people (and previously was to me too) – that’s the default she has to people she’s indifferent to.

    She was overtly into me for a while. Then she found her current BB target and a wall came down. I’ve just been playing with the situ when I have the chance – I make sure to DHV in front of her a lot (girls in our common social circles react very well to me, and the other receptive girl I mentioned is in these circles as well) and I tell her cool stories about things I do enthusiastically. She finds ways to shoot them down and belittle them. I just laugh and ignore her or reframe it as her being jealous or silly. She goes from being by default quite feminine to talking like a boy and being like “Forge. Come here. Help me with X. Hurry.” I just blow it off. But it’s harsh enough that older women have actually reprimanded her for treating me poorly lol.

    So ya, these are all shit tests. Pretty ruthless ones. I need to go nuclear on her and then I get a reaction. My intuition is that she needs a lot of dominance, to the point of insolence or violence, to really get her going. Most guys would be blown away by that, she seems so sweet and helpless to them lol. I blew up at her once just a bit and she looked at me totally differently for a while afterwards. And once I fried her circuits by going off on how awesome I thought my life was (I wasn’t lying, I’m freaking staggered by how awesome I think my life is sometimes lol) and I could see her trying to figure out a way to shoot me down but just couldn’t. A few minutes later she found an excuse to instigate heavy kino. Lol, I knew before that that there were some pretty strong emotions boiling under the surface but that was a real eye-opener.

    I’m already in the AF category, I think she treats betas kindly (but asexually) and tests the shit out of alphas, and then bangs the shit out of them just as ruthlessly. (Or at least her wiring is to do so, not sure how much she’s been able to enact that given the general betaization of men. Few men indeed would be able to pass this sort of testing these days – at least in our UMC social milieu.) The problem is her forebrain’s rational calculations – like I said, she doesn’t want to fuck her BB shot up. So she makes logistics for isolation very difficult. Once I was in a room with her alone for just a few minutes and she got all quiet and girlish, so given real isolation it probably would just be a matter of caffeinating the hamster to quiet anxieties/create rationalizations. It would take a degree of fearlessness, I’d likely have to show some real (controlled) aggression. But I’m not sure that opportunity will come.

    I’m kinda going on about this case because it’s been a weird experience. Like, she’s more transparent about the ambivalence than most, but I begin to see how some alphas don’t mind if a girl ‘hates’ them. Take that shield down and you have a lot of passion underneath.

    But let me not contrast this girl with the other girl too much. The girl who’s sweet and more overt in her interest had an interesting test for me last week. She hit me with a small thing she was carrying to get my attention. I spun about and sent a backlist towards her face, playfully. She giggled and said, “You wouldn’t actually do that to a girl, would you?” I looked at her like it was a weird question and replied, “It depends what she does to me.” She did that thing where she grins hugely and rocks back and forth, then felt my bicep, then walked away calling back “OMG Forge, you’re so funny!

    The tactics and degrees are different, but the root wiring is the same.

    Heh, sorry if my writing is a bit frenetic tonight. I seem to have more words than I know what to do with. Maybe I’m actually getting enough sleep lately 😉

  26. @forge

    I tell her cool stories about things I do enthusiastically

    what would happen if you just totally ignored her always?

    (besides saving a few paragraphs)

    @GRock

    While I have her blocked from my phone, I’ve gotten literally a year’s worth of emails denouncing me

    set up email filter (filter to delete message), never read shit

    like if we could have filters here, I would never see emily

  27. Rollo, just saw my brother again tonight… doing so great, loving his life, taking any punches that come with normal life and rolling with them like it doesn’t even really matter – such a positive, amazing attitude.

    He was responding to texts from a girl he’s interested in and told me how he has her texting him – she’s pursuing him. He was looking at text game and laughing and joking with my husband and I about how well it’s going and how it’s so much fun.

    😀 As you can imagine… I’m over the moon happy for him. He has game… and is doing so well in his life.

  28. @redlight

    Ignoring her completely is actually the projected goal. I’m starting to get more of a perspective of, ‘why the hell am I interacting with someone who doesn’t give me value sans drama?’ I still fall for some of her crap sometimes tho. She’s good at manipulation. Lol, this is a work in progress. I wrote so much about it bc I thought some of it was interesting, not because I think others should imitate that example.

    Besides, it’s decent shit-test/frame practice.

    There’s never a way to totally avoid drama, of course. The most drama I’ve ever been through was with a girl who would. not. leave. me alone. And that’s an alpha tell. I gave no shits about her. I worry the same thing might happen here. Maybe the best thing to do is act beta.

  29. @forge

    Maybe the best thing to do is act beta

    I’ve done this and it is amazingly effective as long as you play up the beta (“I’ve been so stressed out at work since I lost the stapler I like, it was my bestie, that reminds me the problem with Disney movies is that they make me cry every time”). They never ever come back.

    However if you want to keep your options open, just ignore her

  30. @Dragonfly

    Appreciate your admiration of men finding their masculinity. I live amongst conservative values, and even here most women – even if they implicitly react very well to masculinity – explicitly demean it. I’m just starting to realize how much that is happening, and how very draining it is.

    Yesterday a pretty girl was telling me how cocky I am. And though I could see the admiration in her eyes, I still had to find clever ways to reframe and deflect her conversation. Just sometimes I wish women would approve with their eyes and their words simultaneously. But the culture now for women seems to mean, if what he’s doing makes me feel good, I need to make him feel bad, and hope he can deflect my negativity.

    We’re much about finding our own way as men here aside from the approval of woman. But there isn’t much that will encourage a young man to masculinity more than a young woman’s overt admiration of it. That’s a virtuous cycle that we’ve sadly lost.

  31. @redlight

    lol, I’m gonna do my best. She’s actually a clever girl, for a while now she’s been able to find ways to make me think I actually needed to pay attention to her this time. And I’m not very naive. But I’m coming to the conclusion that anything except a bloodcurdling scream from her probably doesn’t signal real need, so cya bitch.

    Last time I saw her I finally was done. I gave her a (I now realize) disdainful look as I took my leave, and she seemed smitten by it. So strange, that one.

    She merits a distant, polite ‘hello’ in future interactions, then I’ll be off to other people. That’s not an angry response, it’s just – I was interested for a bit in her weird reactions to me, but now I kinda ‘got it’ and that’s that. She’s cute and I think she might be a crazy good lay so if that happens I’ll roll with it lol.

  32. @Forge the sky

    “@Rocket
    Lol, ya we kinda tore you up last week. It’s not the content it’s the tone. ”

    As I said, I haven’t visited since then. Tore up a couple of dudes and realized the next morning that maybe I was outta line; so stayed away. So I got some blowback; to be expected, I guess. Its all good. One thing I like about places like this and why I participate here … its honest. I don’t claim to be perfect. I fuck up and make mistakes and take heat for it. Doesn’t mean I’m a horrible person … just means I’m human. And my situation and the decisions I make for me aren’t for everyone. I know that. And not everyone will agree with what I do either. Its just the way the world works.

    Was thinking of going back and reading the comments after what I said; but decided not too. I blew off some steam, maybe some others did so too and directed it my way. Whatever. Its cool. Peace everyone.

  33. @ Forge

    she found her current BB target and a wall came down

    when she gets bored with him the wall will evaporate, heh

    I get the ruthless shit testing…prob wants very rough sex…rape fantasies…slapping…hard spanking…ripping her clothes off…calling her a whore…only thing to do is try it

    Check out my To Spank or Slap post for some dominance stuff you can do in public. https://theasdgamer.wordpress.com/2015/11/22/slapping-her-silly/

    J was standing between two tables which were about three feet apart. I immediately took J by the back with both hands and moved her so that I blocked her exit. It was a dominance move…a leading move…a ballsy move. J took me by the back as well. She was mirroring me, signaling attraction. I lasered J and she did likewise. More mirroring and more attraction-signaling. I told J, “Sometimes I wanna slap you…”. J stiffened and leaned back and away, looking up at me, worried…maybe thinking “Oh shit, is he gonna slap me?” I paused for a couple of seconds, speaking slowly. “…silly. And sometimes I wanna spank you.

  34. Rollo,
    Your philosophy seems more in tune with “Tyler Durden” than “R. Tomassi.” Why did you choose ” the guy that got away” as your nom d’plume?

  35. ScribblerG

    Don’t hate on the androgyny. It has always been my experience that androgyny, effeminate men, that is a way in for some men.

    Women are circular, they are not like us. They want emotional spikes, whatever the direction, more than men. Talk about happy or sad to a man. He will make one of two choices. Either he wants to specialize in sad and will try to feel it as much as possible. Or he will say “sad sucks” and try to make himself happy, try to avoid it.

    Women don’t care about the difference between happy and sad in the same way. They just want the extreme of one or the other. If they have too much of one they will get bored with it and want the other. Birth/death, circularity, all things more important to a woman. Men want to establish themselves, to build, and women don’t really love the particulars of a man, even if he’s very successful at spiking women’s emotions. They just want the spikes.

    Most men are nothing, that is how they fail. They are neither masculine or feminine. They are drones, invisible. They cannot spike. If you want to be popular with women, there are two ways to do it. Either emulate someone you know who is popular with women, or do the exact opposite of what he does.

    This coming from a guy with not that much game, who doesn’t create that many spikes. Men need to establish themselves, somehow. Create spikes, somehow. There are varying ways to do that. Men think by mastering a particular thing, lifting, mastering game, it will guarantee success. That is malethink. Women don’t think that way.

  36. @Striver

    “Men think by mastering a particular thing, lifting, mastering game, it will guarantee success. That is malethink. Women don’t think that way.”

    Men may think they will gain a completion in life by thinking and wanting. As if the wanting is sufficient. But “acting” is their key to success. And it’s not what you decide to master. It is the desire to master and the act of mastering that matters. Something that the protagonist/singer/songwriter failed to do–he failed to master the unknowns in the relationship and act upon them, not just sit around thinking of what he wanted, rather than acting to master something, anything. (The Burden of Performance) Allowing her to join in his mastery if she so desired.

    Maybe he could have used some red pill awareness and game prior to, and during, the relationship.

    Let’s see

    Told myself that you were right for me
    But felt so lonely in your company

    Lack of proper vetting and having a proper next button to push? Lack of plates to spin? Scarcity mentality?

    You can get addicted to a certain kind of sadness
    Like resignation to the end, always the end
    So when we found that we could not make sense
    Well you said that we would still be friends
    But I’ll admit that I was glad that it was over

    Lack of red pill awareness, blue pill practice during the relationship, perhaps?. LJBF rejection.

    And I don’t even need your love
    But you treat me like a stranger and that feels so rough
    No you didn’t have to stoop so low
    Have your friends collect your records and then change your number
    I guess that I don’t need that though
    Now you’re just somebody that I used to know

    War brides hind-brain and limbic system in action

    Kimbra: Now and then I think of all the times you screwed me over
    But had me believing it was always something that I’d done

    AWALT ruled by emotions and solipsism getting fore-brain exercise on the hamster wheel.

  37. Thanks guys, hope you’re all having a good thanksgiving.

    I hate my MIL’s family.
    My MIL is one of 11. The Sisters dominate the entire family. They are catty and gossipy and almost none of them can actually cook. Fewer side-dishes than the Friendsgiving my Wife and I staged, turkey so dry might as well have been beef jerky.

    The Brothers are all Beta in frame. About half turned into true Gamma. About half turned into some serious provider Beta, though….big business guys (CEO and entrepreneur).

    They don’t show up to many family events. Too busy.

    It’s a Wisconsin party…but there is no beer. NO BEER. WHY IS THERE NO BEER?!

    But.

    The Packers lost.

    AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!

  38. “The Packers lost.”

    Oh bloody hell. My closest friend of the past 15 years is an owner. Now I’m going to have to pretend not to be home for a week or two if I don’t want to hear the whining for hours.

  39. First time commenting on this forum.

    Let me first thank Rollo for the insight and the wisdom.

    I have always been good with women and the dynamic of dating. I never knew why. Thanks to the manosphere in general and rollo in particular, I can now link the dots.

    Before I met the mother of my son, I was what many will call a Alpha male. By the way, my family gave me the nickname of Alpha. I still don’t know why. Although I did what I wanted and did not care about people’s judgments. Girls offered me sex on the plate and I was living the life. Then I met the mother of my child. She was the hottest girl I have ever had (a nine to most). She quickly capitalised by falling pregnant for the “Alpha Boy”. That’s when society’s brain washing kicked in.

    I fell into my missus’ frame by trying to be a good dad. I gave up control and ignored my gut feelings in order to please my other half. Boy o boy!! it was the biggest mistake I have ever made. My woman pussied me off. My daily life was filled of constant shit tasting, moaning, complain and eye poking. Predictably, I put on weight, lost my confidence and became depressed.

    I went from what you will call a classical alpha to the worst of what you will call a Beta. Woman smelled my betaness and avoided me like a pest. LMAO!!!!!! When I was at my lowest, I typed on Google, “why is my girl arguing with me all the time?” I was directed to Return of the King (Roosh). From there, I ended up on this site and went through the five stages of unplugging. Ghosh it was hard!!! specially the anger and depression phases!!

    Thanks to the manosphere, I am almost back to my old self. For instance, my girl used to nag me for household chores. Now, my food is cooked on a daily basis, the house is cleaned and I get sex as and when required. I’m back to being the master of the household. My son (6 years old) worship me and my woman looks at me with the puppy eyes, thanks to the lessons I learned on the manosphere (particularly the rational male). I have for instance learned to control my emotions (masculinity), have been lifting for a year (soft dread), read a new book every three days (self improvement) and has significantly improved my confidence (by having the right mental point of origin).

    I dont kid you, both men and woman now react to me in a positive manner. Guys respect me and woman give me IOI all the time. i went from a thirsty weak pussy to a congruent, aloof and confident guy that people like to be around. Today, I was elected by colleagues to defend their interests in a merger that will lead to the emergence of a top 10 law firm in the UK. After work drink up, I had this German girl hitting me up and almost eating in my palm (the right frame was set). Lol! I almost certain that I will frolic with her in the very near future.

    Forgive me for the long comment but I had to share this. I thank everyone on this forum who have contributed in my enlightenment. Happy days ahead!!! I’m giddy thinking about it even though I live in Feminist heaven (London).

  40. @SJF – ++This: “Men may think they will gain a completion in life by thinking and wanting. As if the wanting is sufficient. But “acting” is their key to success. And it’s not what you decide to master. It is the desire to master and the act of mastering that matters.”

    This sparked a thought in me about the nature of “delayed gratification”. It seems to me that as a younger man I bought into this idea that “someday” I’d be able to live my life for my own purposes, but in the meantime I’d better go be a Dad and a husband and provider. And those decisions are not like other ones, particularly being a Dad in that they can’t be undone without real damage and they have long effects.

    I put my dreams aside. I remember before getting married taking a flyer job as a yacht broker, as I really wanted to see if I could make a living in the boating world somehow. It’s a very volatile business and most of the guys who were long term yacht brokers were bums or drunks, and I quickly ruled it out as a career because how could I have a family on that unsteady income?

    We use this word “internalize” to describe how a human makes a point of view or idea his own, the process of taking in someone else’s ideas and belief so deeply they become our own. This is what happened to me, I internalized an FI informed worldview and made it my own. Now I also brought more baggage to it, given my abusive and otherwise troublesome upbringing, which made this all hit me harder. I was looking for something good in this world, I ran towards starting a family of my own, one in which there wasn’t abuse, that would be full of love. I had an idyllic idea about it all.

    And I was in action about it. I set about mastering being good at my work, being a good father and husband and provider etc. We were making progress, all the needles were moving in the right direction when my ex started fucking the chef.

    I’m not sure I ever really fully recovered from the divorce in some ways (my ex and I split up 23 years ago). The death of those dreams of family, and the realization that despite me working my dick off, things still blew up, well, something broke inside of me wrt motivation and having a positive vision for myself.

    It’s only after the Red Pill that I had to face that I gave up on most of my dreams. When I saw how I actually shamed my innate desires and replaced them with some kind of u-social programming in which my purpose in this society is to serve others, it was a shock. But it was also like a puzzle piece falling into place.

    I’m not going to kid you guys. I’m going through lots of changes these days. As I’ve shared with you guys, my whole deal now is about actualizing this in my life but overcoming decades of cynicism and grief isn’t easy. I gave up on every having a happy life years ago, to tell you the truth. I settled and was bitter, and much of life felt like ashes in my hands.

    Not very alpha – fuck that shit too. I’ve been getting real with myself first and foremost these days and the truth is that I’d become comfortable being numb and detached and cynical about life and MYSELF. I was alienated from myslef. Do keep in mind my childhood issues – I never had a particularly happy part of my life and it just wore me down.

    It was also a bit of a “get out of jail” card for me. I could allow myself to fuck off and not stick with something or make rash decisions as I was detached from it all. It was all just a shit show anyway, so I could just give it all the finger and roll on. Well I’m here to tell you, as a young man that may seem cool, but it’s no way to build a life.

    I’m having to rebuild myself and my life from the ground up. I’m glad for the chance, as I was truly just lumbering towards my end and miserable before the Red Pill, but still, it’s a lot to take on. I see how I stop myself, how I give myself excuses. I also see how just withdrawing is so reflexive after a lifetime of being burned. I fight against all of it and will not give up, but I guess what I’m saying is that it’s not at all easy or all progress for me.

    Just reading your comment, SJF, about how being in action is what makes men happy, knocked some sense back into me. There is something about being in action, being kinetic, thrusting oneself into the world that gives one momentum. I’ve been getting caught up inside my head way too much. Thanks for being genius and for all the great comments, you have like an encyclopedic knowledge of TRP now.

  41. ” . . . most of the guys who were long term yacht brokers were bums or drunks . . .”

    You coulda done worse. You coulda been delivery crew.

    “There is something about being in action, being kinetic . . .”

    . . . that keeps one from being a plant.

  42. Scribblerg,

    Regarding what Feminism gives women.

    Thoughts here:
    http://adefinitebetaguy.blogspot.com/2015/11/what-does-feminism-give-women.html

    Summary:
    It works for young women in college and peak SMV years. See, they do not WANT relationships, and they do not want marriages. They want to party. They want beta emotional sponges on the side. They want to leave relationships on a whim and monkey-branch to another guy. They want to have one night stands, with no judgements. They want to have anal sex with exchange students and cry rape when convenient.

    Feminism isn’t the end goal. The Feminine Imperative is the end goal. Feminism is a tool towards that goal. Feminism has been dramatically successful in increasing options for women to fulfill the Feminine Imperative.

  43. @King Kunta

    Hey mate, hell of a story. Its good to see your making things work within a marriage situation. Also, nice to see another London person here. There are only a couple of people I know around me who are Red Pill aware.

    A

  44. “There is something about being in action, being kinetic . . .”

    that keeps one from being a plant.

    ” …..thrusting oneself into the world that gives one momentum.

    @ScribblerG

    Do me a favor. (And I won’t take no for an answer, heheh). Go back and read the last chapter of Marc Lewis’ “Biology of Desire” in regards to what you are currently going through and see how the kinetic movement helps in the neuroplastic rewiring of your brain to get you out of the rut you were in last year. Keep moving forward through the winter and spring. Accept that at times you plateau, like in any endeavor, but be ready to move forward.

    Speaking of “plants”, I used kinetic movement and drew on five dopamine inputs back in August (1. physical movement (lifting weights, operating heavy farm equipment, planting food plots for deer hunting habitat (real plants), golfing), 2. physically socializing, active parenting and activity with my wife, 3. Listening to what I thought was good music (admittedly not kinetic movement–but actually a surrogate for it, lively movement in my brain), 4. banging on the keyboard here at TRM, and 5. fucking my wife, her with a modicum of desire because game worked.) I used kinetic movement to get out of my rut (bad habit) of drinking ETOH, but it can pretty much apply to any rut in life.

    In what you wrote last night–You being able to reflect on your life, connect your past to you present conundrum, and imagine a future very different from the present. That is what separates the men from the boys in breaking the old ruts that are established and moving on to be a new, better person with agency.

    It is way too long to cut and paste (but I’ll do it anyway, heh). There is much more on how to reorganize and overcome in the last chapter (the following is a fraction and needs to be read in context of the rest of the book) but this gives you and others an idea. A start. (Addiction being a metaphor for frustrated former behaviors like blue pill/matrix ruts and frustrations). Here is just a snippet of the last chapter:

    Marc Lewis:
    Back to addiction. People learn addiction through neuroplasticity, which is how they learn everything. They maintain their addiction because they lose some of that plasticity. As if their fingers had become attached together (Ed. an example was given of how the brain changed when webbed fingered children had surgery and their brain neurons changed subsequently), they can no longer separate their desire for well-being from their desire for drugs, booze, or whatever they rely on. Then, when they recover, whether in AA, NA, SMART Recovery, or standing naked on a thirty-third-floor balcony of the Chicago Sheraton in February, their neuroplasticity returns. Their brains start changing again—perhaps radically. As we can see in each of the five biographies, they start to separate one set of desires from another and to act on them independently. For example, Johnny diverted his desire for alcohol into a quest for bodily relaxation that could be satisfied with yoga. Alice separated her preoccupation with food into habits she labelled as healthy and unhealthy. Just as in Mogilner’s study, their brains began to grow new synaptic patterns to allow for those distinctions, hold on to them over time, and thereby acquire new vistas of personal freedom and extended well-being.

    The way people become addicts, and the way they move beyond their addictions, is complicated and mysterious; it can’t be captured by a single word like “neuroplasticity.” During periods of addiction, brains are remarkably stuck. The most candid thing one can say about neuroplasticity during such times is that it’s nowhere to be found. What makes the difference? How do people move from stuckness to flexibility once their self-destructive neuronal habits have been rehearsed thousands of times? In this section I note some of the psychological stepping-stones that seem necessary to overcome addiction—suggested by the experiences of those who succeeded—and blend in their probable neural counterparts. Here our understanding of brain change must not only inform but also follow from insights gathered from individual experiences.

    But before recounting those experiences, I want to summarize the neuropsychological mechanisms I’ve highlighted as the cornerstones of addiction: now appeal in relation to narrowly defined rewards; ego fatigue arising from attempts to resist temptation; and personality development, the ongoing stream of change and stability in individual minds.

    The role of now appeal in addiction is critical. We mammals often find immediate rewards more attractive than future rewards of higher value. But now appeal is driven by dopamine uptake to the striatum: immediate rewards are always more compelling than long-term rewards, and dopamine circuitry evolved to capitalize on that simple fact. In addiction, this mechanism narrows in on itself insidiously. When addictive rewards colonize dopamine circuitry, and long-term rewards become increasingly hard to recall, addictive rewards become the only game in town. Then what? Then you know you’re in trouble, so you try to resist temptation and inhibit the recurring desire for more. Which leads to ego fatigue. Ego fatigue is like a microcosm of addiction: a loss of top-down cognitive control, augmented rather than diminished by attempts to suppress impulses. Ego fatigue reflects a disconnect between the bridge of the ship—the dorsolateral PFC—and its motivational engines in and around the striatum. Most important, the same disconnect, the loss of communication between these brain systems, becomes entrenched through synaptic pruning when addiction crystallizes over months and years.

    It appears that Natalie and Brian began to outgrow their addictions when they were able to reflect on their lives, connect their past to their present conundrum, and imagine a future very different from the present. I believe that this process of reflection and perspective taking was precisely what helped them overcome the now appeal of drugs. As a result, they no longer had to fight their impulses with the same exhausting effort hour by hour and day by day. This greatly reduced ego fatigue, which was the key to changing momentary behaviour and learning to rely on top-down control. They could now begin to mark their progress toward acquiring a sense of safety, born of self-care, and a sense of purpose, resulting from accomplishments that could only take shape over time. They could detect a shift in the course of their own personality development: the emergence of new mental habits, new habits of behaviour, and a different sense of who they were as people.

    Until addicts begin this kind of reflection, their preoccupation with the immediate is locked in by dopamine’s tide. They are caught in a rapidly cycling spiral of desire and acquisition, wanting and getting, getting and losing. Now appeal is not just a devaluation of future goodies; in the case of addiction, it’s a gorge carved across the continuum of a person’s life, dividing personality development into an unexamined past and an unimagined future. It’s a place where people can live for a long time. In fact, they can die there. Or they can find a way out. That requires connecting the jagged halves of one’s life—past and future—by discovering and recounting the story of one’s own development, and extending that developmental route beyond the next few hours, into the months and years ahead.

    …….humans need to be able to see their own lives progressing, moving, from a meaningful past to a viable future. They need to see themselves as going somewhere, as characters in a narrative, as making sense. In addiction, the relentless preoccupation with immediate rewards carves a small burrow out of the potential richness of time. In psychological terms, this is the outcome of recurrent cycles of now appeal and ego fatigue. But the details are more damning. The fine print tells the story of a tightening spiral of desire, acquisition, and loss, the narrowing of perspective and meaning, the rigid infatuation with reliable, available, but terribly boring rewards—rewards that leave only emptiness and craving in their wake. The addict’s life is lived in the tomb of the present, dead because it has lost its connection with the story from which it came.

    In neural terms, as we have seen, this state corresponds to the breakdown of communication between the motivational core of the brain (the striatum, OFC, and amygdala) and the bridge of the ship (the dorsolateral PFC). By virtue of this disconnection, desire drives behaviour in small redundant circles, independent of insight, perspective, and higher-order goals. Desire roars with immediacy, craving fulfillment, but its natural partners are judgement and direction, planning and perspective, capacities programmed into the dorsolateral PFC throughout childhood and adolescence. Once that partnership has come apart, it needs to be put back together.

  45. @DefBetaGuy – I understand what you are saying, of course there are payoffs from feminism for women. I was thinking at more of an existential level. Lee Lee’s comment revealed her own existential angst stemming from thinking her natural feminine ways were “wrong” or “crazy”. She’s been told she doesn’t need a man and should be happy living independently etc. The way Lee Lee described it gave me insight about how difficult the “Strong Independent Woman” role is for women. Just as I felt shamed for being aggressive and dominant due to social pressure, it seems that Lee Lee felt the same kind of pressure to not be dependent on a man.

    I do think you should be more precise about what aspects of feminism were most troublesome. Me? I’m a fucking troglodyte and have come to the conclusion – very reluctantly – that once women got the vote it was only a matter of time before they wrecked every democracy on earth. They are making political decisions primarily based on emotions, and the social justice warrior shaped world we have is the rapid result of giving women political power.

    It’s forced me to realize how deep the insanity of equalism runs. It’s not a coincidence that socialism and Marxism, and their stepchildren Progressivism and Social Justice, only get real traction in the west once women get the vote. Look at any university demonstration today – women are driving the insanity.

    Given that we are not going to be able take the vote away from women, there is nothing we can do other than watch them wreck the place. And yes, Emily and Lee Lee and Liz and Dragonfly – I’m speaking about you and your sisters. You and your sisters have singlehandedly destroyed Western classical liberalism and are now presiding over the collapse of the West.

    Want an example? Consumerism and personal debt. Only once women enter the workplace and economy in large numbers as “career women” and single people does personal debt in the U.S. skyrocket. Today’s women also control 80% of consumer spending – cheap Chinese crap and Black Friday, all female in their origins and the rampant consumerism of our economy doesn’t emerge until women control so much spending/consumption. On a political level, our ridiculous level of debt and insane central banking policies simply are not possible in a world run by men. Sure, 25% of men support such idiocy but they are merely acquiescing to the FI…

    Just look at the nutty European women like Merkel or others and how they are letting their “compassion” overrule nationalist values and adopt truly crazy immigration policies that have brought about things like Sweden becoming the rape capital of the world – only one other country has higher rape stats. Even more galling? Of all the “stranger rapes” in the country? All were done by “Asian” men on young white Swedish women. Think about how insane that is – rabid feminist women importing a rape culture, while calling anyone who points this out a racist. Fucking imbeciles.

    This is what a world run by women looks like. Closer to home, just take the election of a vapid babbler like Barack Obama. His chief achievement is emitting agit prop and soothing moral rhetoric that seduces women into believing he’s “doing the right thing” while his amateurish hand is steering us off a cliff economically and socially, and in world affairs. I’ve tried asking leftie social justice warrior women if they are concerned about the addition of 10 trillion in new debt “on the books” debt under his admin? Sometimes I’m daring and ask them about “unfunded liabilities” – but most women are functionally retarded when it comes to finances and economics and monetary systems etc., and then they just treat me like I’m some right wing nut.

    Human patriarchy resulted in the most amazing human progress and civilization in human history. But it always required women to accept and play ball, to be complementary. In many ways, what “feminism” is all about is rejecting the responsibility to be complementary while demanding men be more complementary. Why wouldn’t our society go haywire when one half of the human equation decides to stop cooperating with the other half?

    This is the essence of the male social complaint in our current society in the West. Women expect men to continue to be eusocial (see a great write up here on Edward O. Wilson’s ideas on eusociality from his epic book The Social Conquest of Earth http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/edward-o-wilsons-new-take-on-human-nature-160810520/?no-ist ) while they are in it for themselves now. And this tracks with the experience of my marriage – it was like my wife just decided she didn’t need to live up to any “deal” and there was no social cost for her to break that social contract.

    Turns out female nature is quite dangerous if it isn’t constrained. Put more generally, women exercise their “agency” in a free society in ways that shit on everything we’ve developed in the West. If humanity had been in large part a matriarchy, we’d still be living in the fucking trees.

  46. @SJF – Amazing how you just “got” where I’m at. The cite you posted is so spot on and I hope most men here get the significance of it. The neuroscience discussed in The Biology of Desire is in no way limited to “addiction”. Rather, it is about how desire itself arises and how behavior is driven by the neurology involved. Anything you desire is affected in the same way. It also looks deeply at pleasure and the “governing” functions of our brains and this is relevant to everything we do. Watching too much TV, eating, video games, in no way is that book about “addiction” per se. In fact, the book is about destroying the entire idea of “addiction” as a disease. It’s very convenient for many people to look down their noses at “addicts” while they watch 40 hours of TV per week or spend endless hours websurfing.

    Thanks for the support, man. I appreciate it. I’ll work through this but right now it just isn’t coming easy. Such is life, nothing worth attaining comes easy. The lot of a man isn’t easy. Overcoming a lifetime of fucked up neurology and behaviors isn’t easy. Having PTSD since I was 8 and growing up with the fucked neurology that brings with it isn’t easy. Sometimes I just need to give that a voice. Have a nice Saturday everyone.

  47. This is what a country run by radfem women and informed by a complete capitulation to feminist political sensibilities looks like.
    [youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP7_yY9m5GM&w=560&h=315%5D

    Try to wrap your head around it. Sweden is the rape capital of the western world. Watch the entire video – just see how complete the surrender is. I think it’s happening for an even deeper reason. After Swedish feminist politicians denutted Swedish men, and fully institutionalized the Blue Pill and Betaization, they simultaneously started to hate those weak, effeminate men. In foreign Muslims, they find a virile man who has not surrendered to them. It’s “alpha selection” at the group/political level. In many ways, feminism is nothing more than a shit test and guess who’s passing your the Swedish shit test? Savages, lol, fucking raping, uncivilized savages.

    Nice work ladies, you can blame all the rapes in Sweden by Muslims on feminism. Full stop.

  48. Field Report:

    Awesome night last night. It wasn’t so much because broads were screwing their tits into my chest last night, lol–both friends and random cold approaches–even though they were. It was awesome because I actually felt comfortable holding a friend close around the shoulders as we chatted for five minutes about her trip and looked at her cell phone pics. Big milestone for me with my inhibitions. I didn’t feel awkward at all, surprisingly. This friend is very sweet. I felt affection for my friend as we chatted. (She was wild in her youth but is a Born Again Nice Girl (BANG), lol.)

    It was cold and rainy outside on a Friday night at my main country bar…potentially icy roads…I was in The Zone ™…had a great vibe…started when Mrs. Gamer said to tell the girls hello for her (a shit test) and I told her that I would kiss them for her, lol…chatted up groups of friends and acquaintances all over the room…eyeflirted with a girl bartender who had seemed cold before…did some cold approaches…did what I thought were cold approaches but I had danced with the girls before, lol…told a buddy a story about a girl from the previous Friday night which he enjoyed…asked my friend about her trip…mentioned that the club was loud and that either I could hold her close so that we could hear each other or we could go outside…she opted for the holding and said that it was too cold outside…yeah, she wanted to be held and it was a good excuse…I didn’t feel bold, but I probably was bold and a little charming as well.

  49. @Rugby

    “Something to think about.”

    NotReally.

    “You could be forgiven if your first reaction upon hearing about the Southbank Centre’s second annual ‘Being A Man’ festival – an entire weekend of talks, discussions, performances and debates aimed squarely at getting blokes to reflect on the challenges they face in 2015 – is to throw your laptop into the nearest skip and pray for an asteroid to wipe out 50% of the population. A festival for men to talk about men stuff. The very concept of it sounds like something that should never have been allowed to snowball into reality. It’s reminiscent of an ill-fated idea punted in the dying moments of an Apprentice brainstorm, or worse, the sort of thing Danny Wallace might write a book about.

    Simply put, ‘Men’s Issues’ seem like such a luxury problem that even conceding it’s a real thing leaves you open to accusations of being a whiney meninist. To be a man who complains about his identity feels roughly equivalent to being a millionaire tax-avoider who complains about his lawyer fees. Men face no real existential threat. Men have enjoyed an entire civilisations’ worth of largely unchecked economic, governmental and institutional power. ‘A Festival For Men’ is already an accurate summation of 98% of the world. And yet, there’s a growing volume of evidence which suggests that for all our de facto privilege, blokes are circling the drain – doomed to an encroaching fate of near-total obsolescence.

    With events like Being a Man, Jude Kelly hopes that the discourse surrounding masculinity can become broader and more inclusive. “The reason why gender equality is a great thing for men and women,” she says, “is that it means that you don’t have to assume that you have the upper status, you haven’t got to worry about your power, you haven’t got to prove that you deserve to be a man.” Ultimately, this feels like an attainable goal. As long as the dialogue keeps pushing forward, away from the toxicity of pre-Industrial masculinity and towards a landscape that’s more in-keeping with the progressive, tolerant and inclusive society that most of us would want to inhabit. Dapper Laughs didn’t die for nothing. Society is ready for masculinity to be revamped and remoulded, and if it takes an event like Being a Man to kick-start the conversation, then that can only be a good thing.”

    The author of that article intones elsewhere:

    https://medium.com/@millsandboom/masculinitysofragile-so-how-do-we-fix-it-8a499627e933#.twa88x5ac

    “Though nothing excuses terrible behaviour, we should be aware that hegemonic masculinity is a fetid, dank and harmful concept that needs to be burned on the scrapyard and rebuilt anew. Until then, we are doomed to witness increasing violence and suicides as more and more men circle the drain and succumb to the mirage of masculinity.”

  50. @SJF

    The solution to the crisis in masculinity is clearly more of the same female redefining of masculinity that leads to male suicides as men can’t reach their goals or achieve success. Sounds reasonable to me.

  51. @SJF and Rugby – I wonder what is Hayden Woolley’s criticism of femininity? Are there not problems with it? Is masculinity the only “fetid, dank and harmful concept”?

    @Forge – Wow, those stats on French attitudes are terrifying. I won’t get us down the rathole of Islamism too deeply here, but it’s just amazing to me how so many self-anointed geniuses on the left don’t know a thing about Islam and it’s history. Just a few facts about Islam:

    – It was an imperial, conquering force since it’s inception. To claim that that the West is unique in its imperial past is idiocy. The Crusades were in response to their invasion and takeover of Christian lands. They attacked the West 60 times more than the West attacked it. What’s unique and unprecedented about the West is that we stopped and gave the lands back based on morality. Amazing.
    – Islam is innately supremacist. Period. Dot. End of sentence.
    – Islam is authoritarian and totalitarian. It doesn’t just make proclamations, it wants the force of the state to insure they are followed. It claims authority over the life and death of all humanity and is not just a religion, it is a governing structure for every aspect of society.
    – It doesn’t have a concept of freedom in any way that Westerners would recognize. Whether it’s free speech of freedom of conscience.

    There are 5 majors schools of Islam and they do vary. But in the main, it’s completely fair to say that Islam is “pre-modern” – it’s not a modern idea about government or humanity. It’s more like pre-Enlightenment Christianity.

    Yet highly Progressive and Socialist French cannot see it’s flaws. They are still wracked with self-loathing over its treatment of Algierians and Morrocans but in fact, when one looks at what it takes to impose order in a Muslim country, their methods seem quite tame…

    Do yourself a favor, go ask any Social Justice Warrior or RadFem what they know about Islam and its history. I dare you to do so and not giggle. Yet they have their arms and legs open to them…

    Do you think that this would be happening in the West if it wasn’t for female political power? Think about how arrogant they are. They have concluded that they know how to protect our society and nation better than men – when men have been protecting such things since the dawn of time. Women have no idea how to protect a country or a family, yet they just dismiss all male attitudes about this as defective. It’s epic cuntery.

    Think deeply – how the fuck did we get here? Answer: Women. They really need to stop and consider if they are up to the task of governing and leading a great nation.

  52. @scribblerg,
    Do you know what a Muslim elite / capitalists / oligarchy , have in common with a Christian and a Jewish elite / capitalist / oligarchy? Money and power.
    Do you think an elite Muslim’s son would become an ISIS?
    Do you think the elite give a rat’s ass about who comes to Europe and who don’t?
    Those Muslim nuts were hailed as the great Mujahideen when Regan used them against the Godless Soviets.

    It was the oil companies that made Roosevelt strike a life long cartel deal with the founder of Saudi Arabia. It was like this :
    Roosevelt said to the Savage king Saud (the founder) :
    How about I make you an offer you can’t resist? We bring our oil companies and we both benefit. Saud, sell the oil to the world, and get to keep the money in American banks.
    Do you think countries bring immigrants or refugees because they love them?
    Cheap labor ? or an eternal love?
    Europe didn’t bring the Muslim elite, why?
    The Muslim elite don’t have any time to pray, they are busy fucking .
    Ps,
    I noticed you use the word “elite” and consumerism lately!.
    Who came first, feminism or consumerism?
    Who came first, the elite or capitalists?
    Ps2,
    ALL religions are violent.
    Ps3,
    9-11, was committed by 18 Saudis, do you think the American oil elite would abandon the Saudi elite for 3000 Americans?

  53. ” Women pick up on behavioral cues, attitude, how things affect you, how you apply yourself to a task, how you deal with adversity and certainly the interplay you engage in with her while playing with her. If you’re thinking that women wanting men who Just Get It is all direct Game and all above board you need to reconsider that quite a bit of women’s filtering occurs when you’re not ‘on‘ and she’s casually picking up on your behavioral cues. ”

    This is why men should strive to self improve for themselves first and foremost. How you apply yourself to tasks and how you deal with adversity are issues that any man should try to master. It’s not so much about believing a false narrative about yourself and thereby keeping up a front, which sounds awful and exhausting, but by making constant improvements in self and internalizing said improvements.

    Attitude.

    Do what you do without a real mind for women. They will pick up on your attitude and if it’s the correct attitude, they will be drawn to it ( regardless of what they may say or do..). Chess gentlemen, not checkers.

    A quick word about women and fear.

    Never show fear or doubt. You can feel that shit ( until you exorcise it from your mind ), but maintain composure always. This will have an impact on females, but it will also have impact on your fellow men. Myself, I suffer/suffered from a heart wrenching fear of heights. I hated seeing other people scale heights and I was grounded and fearful. Every chance I get, I’m going up high. I’ve taken balloon rides and done zip lines to get a handle on the fear. A few days ago I was on the roof of my 2.5 story home inspecting the chimney. The feeling is still there, but I no longer acknowledge it.

    It can seem like a man can never relax and just express his true feelings. You can have your feelings, but there are some feelings that do not serve you in any meaningful or productive way. These feelings you just keep to yourself or you can share them with a close MALE friend if you have one of those…( getting more and more rare ). But never ” share ” these with women. Ever.

    Dealing with women has given me super-hero level peripheral vision. Lol. I watch them watch me when they think I’m not paying attention. They watch more than you can believe. They do not speak or comment a majority of the time while watching. You, my friend, are being watched.

    Lol, chicks have such a game running. I believe they look at guys even more that we look at them. I’m certain that they have many more ” thoughts ” about what they see visually than we do. And I’m positive that we have the power to manipulate those thoughts in our favor. Okay, maybe ” manipulate ” is too strong of a descriptor. We can influence their perceptions. Better.

    By virtue of being male, every man has dominion over women whether it’s realized or not. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. Your attitude should reflect a dominant force over the female. IDGAF if it’s the teller at the bank, the HB9 walking past you on a sidewalk, the 69 year old woman you held the door for… It’s all the damn same.

    Dominance gets a really bad rap, thanks to the FI. Don’t buy into it. It’s like my fear of heights, fight that shit hard.

    There is nothing mean or angry or nasty about dominance. It’s what 99% of women want. The degrees may vary, but absence of dominance is a losing proposition for men.

    Overt or covert communication? Hmmm…. both. Chose one to be subtle, the other to be a bit more bold. Lol, yeah, covert communication can be bold. If I’m faced by nuclear shit test from a female ( younger chicks mainly ), I shift gears to more overt. Almost overbearing. Almost. At the same time I’ll throw in more subtle, covert communications. Fuck with their wiring fellas.

    Rollo was prophetic re: Amused Mastery.

    Play with them.

    YaReally – how did you manage to never be in a fight? Lol.

    Maybe my priorities are anachronistic, but fighting is a right of passage. Lord knows it’s not about being a ” bad ass ” at all, but it builds a special measure of confidence among males. maybe I’m mistaken? Nah, I’m right. : )

    Tip? Maybe if you are going to be in clubs and such, you should get your fight chops up. I’m mostly serious – at least venture out to learn to throw various punches and hit a heavy bag. That shit is therapeutic.

    Example: Thanksgiving I went to family’s house in Yonkers. After the festivities, my wife and my girls and I were making the 2 block walk to my car. Dark. Unfamiliar. 3 ..um…” dudes ” congregating on a corner we had to pass. Wife starts doing the ” panicked street crossing ” maneuver, which I later scolded her for. If anything had jumped off what would happen? Lol. I do know this much, whoever I hit was gonna take the hardest shots he ever felt and his ancestors would all collectively groan in pain.

    Mental note to self: more heavy Bag…

    It can be a violent world. Force only respects force.

    Even if you never throw one punch in anger or self defense, it’s better to have skill and not need it than vice versa.

  54. @Scribblerg

    “Think about how arrogant they are. They have concluded that they know how to protect our society and nation better than men – when men have been protecting such things since the dawn of time. Women have no idea how to protect a country or a family, yet they just dismiss all male attitudes about this as defective. It’s epic cuntery.”

    Women instinctively try to solve problems through consensus-building/diplomacy. And faced with undeniable violence or aggression, their impulse is appeasement. Shows of emotional vulnerability or displays of sexual enticement are the usual go-to’s.

    We’re just seeing that impulse writ large across the global landscape, now.

    There is a short-term advantage of less war and death instigated as retaliatory behavior – the impulse of men. But there’s a long-term disadvantage in that the pause allows our enemies to grow stronger, and become emboldened by our lack of retaliation. The fight that circumstance will lead to will be far harder, in the long run.

  55. @Blaximus

    Good stuff, man. Fear is like pain – eventually it just become information. The fear isn’t you, you just need to observe it happening. It takes practice.

    I’m gonna ramble a bit here but

    My game is still kinda bullshit for the most part, but by attacking the first, fatal sticking point of approach anxiety I’ve had to observe this. It was terrifying at first, but now I just like do it in spite of the weird feeling, and I don’t much care how hot the girl is. I care still about how many people she’s with, if she seems engaged with them, is that her BF, etc, but ah well. That’ll just take a few experiences dealing with sets like that to show myself that it’s OK.

    I approached an HB7 once who was at a table with her family (parents, sibling, looked like a friend or two) and just opened the whole table. It was her birthday. They seemed to think it was a little strange but I just made up some reason to talk with them and rolled with it – “Hey, I’ve been watching people here and I have to say, looks like you all are the most fun of anyone here!” Kinda lame lol but she was like “WOOO!” like she’d won an award. I chatted a bit before bailing, and noticed that her father was staring at me intently. He wasn’t trying to drive me away, just trying to get a damn good read on me.

    Lesson – win over (or at least disarm) the father. Haven’t had a chance to test it yet but I suspect I could get a decent few minutes with a girl if I pulled that off, and if the circumstance is right he might actually encourage things (though it’d have to be non-sexual, act like you’re gearing to take her on a date some time not try to bang her immediately lol).

    I went out to a bar/club tonight. Two old friends went with me. It was kinda awkward in a way bc they’re in LTR’s and aren’t interested in hitting the dance floor and would probably be weirded out by me explicitly ‘gaming’ girls, so we talked off and on and then I went out onto the dance floor and tried to get with girls as they watched for amusement. No real sets materialized (I kept running into two-sets where they were keeping each other off of me, or where the girl I didn’t want would be more into me so her friend stayed off me to avoid drama). I fumbled approaching a cute HB7 in a red dress that I liked when she stepped off the dance floor. Still not signalling bold intent. Ah well.

    The thing I noticed, though, was just what you were talking about – the small communications I put out through my body language and behavior, whether or not I like a song, all sorts of things gets filtered. I have a lot of fun tearing up the floor these days, and I have pretty confident, somewhat dominant body language when I’m just walking around and it makes a huge difference. They don’t stare, but they keep pinging off of me like a boy surreptitiously checking out a hot girl on the other side of a room full of uglies. Constant checks for congruence, location, openings, intent or interest on my part….It’s like half the room opens for me. And the chode bouncing in the corner by himself wonders what the hell is happening lol.

    By default, most don’t have the mindset or logistics to make things happen. But they’re interested. If I can learn how to MAKE logistics work, and do the approach while KEEPING that congruence….

  56. Well, it’s late here but I’m still wired from the club so I might as well write up about a recent circumstance I ran into. Sort of a field report, but I’m not sure I should call it that since it was a convo with a girl I’ve known rather than a new approach.

    HB7 (hard 8 with makeup, it works well for her) that I’ve known for 3-ish years. Always gotten along well with her but it was fairly platonic. She has a live-in BF of 4 years, he’s a natural. I recently caught a few strong IOI’s from her and was like ‘oh shit, you too?’ lol. Details in case it’s relevant – I hugged her goodbye, and after a second she pushed away and stumbled away, redfaced, refusing to look up at me. She seemed surprised by her own reaction. After that I’d catch her looking sidelong at me with her chin tilted and a coy, dreamy smile on her face. She’d act more expressive and emotional when interacting with me. And she started initiating overt kino after a few drinks once. It’s not vague stuff. But she’s doing her best to suppress it all, likely for the sake of her current relationship.

    So I ran into her randomly, both of us alone, and caught up with her for 20-30 minutes. We were in a private-ish place where we could talk openly, but I couldn’t well try to escalate or anything.

    Perfunctory greetings, then I took the frame and told her to sit down, etc. I noticed her posture was strange, and she told me about some shoulder pain she’d been having. I work in orthopedics and so did some quick palpitation and gave some general suggestions about things that might help. A bit of laser eye contact as I held onto her shoulder and told her what to do. She dropped her usual no-nonsense attitude and was acting a bit girlish and nervous. She told me a story about how she had just sent an older woman a highly sexual text message by accident due to an unfortunate autocorrect; we both laughed. This seemed to put her a bit more at ease and she mentioned something about working on her ‘issue’ that she had. I had no idea what she was talking about.

    “Forge! I’ve never told you this?”

    “Nope. Don’t know what you’re talking about.”

    “Really? I thought for sure I would have told you!”

    “Nope.” I’m acting a bit amused at this point.

    She confided a diagnosed emotional issue she struggles with. She told me how it started, and how she basically got rid of it entirely via therapy and lifestyle changes, and talks to groups about her success story. I had and idea there had been something off for a while, but had no clue past that lol.

    Anyways, I’ve actually studied the specific issue quite a bit and dealt with a vaguely-related thing for a while myself (mild depression/social anxiety for me, lol no issues now) so I was able to relate my experience to hers very well. I brought forward some insights about it, became a bit passionate about the issue, and opined some kinda crazy shit about what she must have gone through and how these issues form and are dispelled.

    When girls have been super into me, when I do this I’ll get a sort of slack-jawed awe from them. Like everything I’m saying and doing is godlike. I wasn’t getting that here, but she was very engaged with what I was saying, and very willing to be molded by my mindsets. So I suppose the main interesting thing about the whole interaction to me was this – I’m not sure if this part of the interaction was game or anti-game or just neutral. Was this a decent way to develop comfort? Was the set far along enough to do that? I never got vulnerable about it, I just kinda got excited – like ‘Yeah, I know how xyz goes, it’s like X right? I did abc to myself and it totally changed the way I dealt with that.”

    Lol it wasn’t the very best subject matter of course. But it was something close to her experience that she had strong emotions about, and being able to not freak out about it, and to DHV to a degree in the face of it, struck me as being a good way to deal with it. But maybe changing subjects is better? I don’t think so, she probably would have felt alienated and like I didn’t understand her.

    Basically, I’ve used far too much comfort in the past (a beta tell) and so I’m not sure now what it’s supposed to look/feel like. Wondering if it looks like I’m calibrating it correctly.

    Anyways, the convo went from that to making mixed drinks – something we both pride ourselves in. I have a larger reputation for it tho (the time she got buzzed and started kino-ing me, I had mixed the drinks far too deliciously, she claims). So we swapped a few ideas about that and then I started lightheartedly talking about how we should make X drink at my house and get wasted and shit. It was fairly clear I was joking, but she jumped off from that.

    “Forge, I don’t know if I can drink with you! I got waaay to drunk last time you made the drinks…” for the first time, she lost the nervous girly demeanor.

    I should have teased her here, and disqualified myself heavily. Was activating a bit of ASD I think. Instead I choked a bit and backed down, like ‘Ya I wasn’t seriously suggesting it, it would be fun to do blah blah tho.” Arg. I did tease her a bit about getting drunk at least.

    The convo petered out a bit after that, she had to go. We said a few logistical things then she started walking away, hesitated, and said over her shoulder: “Well, now you know something more about [HB7].” And left. She ended with the same girly tone she had had earlier.

    She was receptive to kino – at one point I stood up behind her, teased her about something, and put my arm around her neck and pulled her back into me. She just sort of let me. I should have used more though.

    Maybe I should have found ways to sexualize the convo more. Couldn’t think of any plausibly-deniable ways at the time; since I don’t have an overtly sexual frame set with her I feel as though I need some degree of deniability/rationalization that it’s a joke. At least if I don’t want to cash in and go nuclear with it, e.g. “I never knew we felt this way about each other’ overt game.

    Made some tentative plans of things we could do together that I might be able to isolate from. I’m gonna probably run into lots and lots of ASD and LMR though, judging from how she reacted to the booze joke.

    About a week after this we were at a common gathering. She was taking a picture of herself. I walked up: “You’re lucky,” I said.

    “Oh?”

    “You get to talk to me before you go.”

    She used this as an excuse to tell me a few random things.

    “Also,” I said after she was done, “you get to take your picture with me.”

    She did, seemingly reluctantly. “Forge, you’re so ridiculous. You’re so cocky.” She seemed a bit genuinely out of sorts, like she didn’t know how to cope with it all.

    “Oh, [HB7],” I said. “You wouldn’t like me nearly as much if I weren’t.”

    She gave me the most peculiar look. If I read it right, it was that sort of bright-eyed, vague smiles girls make when something really turns them on. But overlaid with frustration. I think she’s quite torn.

    Me? I was ZFG. But if @YaReally or someone else wants to chime in and let me know how I’m doing here, I would be grateful 😉

    This particular girl is cool and cute, but I’m not all that necessitous of something becoming of it. It’s just, given the circumstance, I’m able to take our convos farther in the set than I currently have the skillset for with cold approaches. So maybe there’s some issues and sticking points I can start working on already with things like comfort-building, etc.

  57. @Forge and the HB7: I’m not good enough at game, but I worry that she may just be into having you as an orbiter.

    I would upgrade orbiter to Plan B

  58. @Forge – Great FRs, thanks. On the HB7, contrary to @IAS above, I don’t get a hit of Beta qualification going on with her. Without knowing more details on the logistics of where you were, it’s hard to say how you could have isolated or escalated better, but my sense is that you have left her hanging. Her ASD is just that – an act, fyi. Don’t take it seriously. I have two concrete suggestions:

    – I think she’s trying to qualify you as pure short term AF but there some bit of the “nice guy” left in you so she can’t quite put you in that box. I notice that your (vivid and interesting) descriptions of her seem to see her as passive/reactive versus having full agency. I think you missed several opportunities to make the interaction much more sexual where she could be free to express her desires instead of playing “good girl”, which is what she is doing when she acts embarrassed about her interest/attraction. Example: When she tells you about the dirty text, you should have asked what she said in it and looked at it, or asked, “Did you send a pic with it?” You could also send her a dirty text and follow up “Oops, looks like I made the same mistake as you did” like any time.

    – Based on what you described, it’s not fair to yourself to say you suck at game, lol. You did very well with this woman, detecting IOIs, fanning the flames and creating intimacy with your eyes and voice etc. But where I think you missed the boat is in not creating the “naughty girl” vibe and also disqualifying yourself as BF material. You should run boyfriend destroyer on her and maybe start telling her that you have been living a polyamorous lifetstyle, and that you think possessing a woman is just not what you want. You need to open the topic of her cheating, even if just by teasing her about it, and frame it for her. ‘You only go around once in life” or one of my favorites, “Nobody ever wishes they had less sex in their life when on their deathbed”. Ask her why she hasn’t married the guy, etc. Also, making plans in this kind situation is the wrong way to go about it. She won’t agree to come over for drinks if its overt that you are going to fuck, but she will meet you out somewhere. She essentially has to “fall on your dick” so she can later say, “I don’t know what happened, I didn’t plan on it” etc. You might be able to get more direct, giving the HUGE HINTS she is giving you. “Well we could try drinks again but I’m afraid you are just a tease.” YaReally will have much better advice, but you get my gist, yeah? You have to help her create a frame for her to cheat. I think you get this based on what you said, but it can’t hurt to reiterate it.

    Great work – light years from where you were 6 months ago. Seek progress, not perfection!

  59. @ Forge

    “Forge, I don’t know if I can drink with you! I got waaay to drunk last time you made the drinks…” for the first time, she lost the nervous girly demeanor.

    Frame test because of ASD. Best response is to flip it with Agree & Amplify…”Yeah, drunk girls are boring…you make the drinks.”…you turn her shit into disqualification (kind of clever) and then delegate drink making to her (more clever shit where you show dominance and still assume the sale)…it has a chance of disarming the ASD, too.

    Maybe I should have found ways to sexualize the convo more.

    You had already spiked her buying temperature. That’s all sexualization does. The spike in BT is what triggered her ASD.

    She gave me the most peculiar look. If I read it right, it was that sort of bright-eyed, vague smiles girls make when something really turns them on. But overlaid with frustration. I think she’s quite torn.

    Yep. She needs time to make up her mind. Go aloof. No texting. Minimal politeness if you see her.

  60. @Keyser – You asked for it (those not interested in politics, just scroll by as I’m going long). I only do this because i’m chilling this morning and feel like writing and also because I think there are many of you in this community who have adopted the feral, pseudo-intellectual worldview Keyser so neatly summarizes in his comment. I’m going to take it apart, piece by piece, just so you guys (Keyser won’t change his mind) realize how superficial such an analysis is. Fyi, just to start, Keyser, tell me, what book(s) are you reading on politics and history right now? I’m reading Gibbon’s The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire (multi-volume, 200+ yr old, 3000 page, epic recounting of this time in Roman and world history). I don’t spend much time on say Lew Rockwell’s site or reading adult children like say Tom Woods, which is where the dreck you emit comes from. You may want to consider that the world is a whole lot more complex than your reductionist and laughable bromides indicate. Okay, here we go.

    Do you know what a Muslim elite / capitalists / oligarchy , have in common with a Christian and a Jewish elite / capitalist / oligarchy? Money and power. Do you understand that the advent of real property, beyond what hunter gatherers could carry from camp to camp, was the inflection point for creating large scale trade and wealth creation and a huge increase in the standard of living for all humanity? Do you understand that without “property” we’d still be living in the fucking trees? Do you get that without capitalism and money/power, there would be no material progress for humans, and that this phenomena developed independently across at least 6 different strands of human civilization? Do you understand that the right to own property is what gives rise to “capitalism” as if you own something, the right to exchange it freely with someone is implicit in ownership? What was your inane fucking point again?

    Do you think an elite Muslim’s son would become an ISIS? Did you just make this up in your head because it sounded good? In fact, many upper class Muslims have joined Jihad. Osama Bin Laden was incredibly wealthy and an elite. Some of the 9/11 hijackers came from elite parts of Islamic society in Saudi Arabia. What’s even more moronic is the implication of your comment, that this unrest somehow arises due to materialist issues versus the culture and substance of Islam. That you believe this puts you in the same camp as Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, fyi It also signals you have no idea what’s actually going on in the world.

    Do you think the elite give a rat’s ass about who comes to Europe and who don’t? The elite has actually changed substantially in the U.S. and our elite used to be much different from European elites and Muslim elites, as our society had much less class structure and stratification until the last few decades (read Charles Murray’s Coming Apart for ample data on this subject). The new U.S. elite are not made up of rough and tumble capitalists like Carnegie or Morgan, they are made up of people who go to the right schools and have the right ideas. Their key to success is social signalling and a willingness to play ball to get ahead, not actual accomplishment. Today’s elites in the U.S are largely Progressive, with only 11% describing themselves as “conservative” in fact. They live almost entirely separate lives from the middle and working class whereas in the past, say 60 years ago, the CEO of a manufacturing company and a line worker in the factory might go to the same church, have their sons on the same baseball team and they lived near enough to each other to understand how the other lived. Today? U.S. elites have cloistered and separated themselves from the rest of society, living in what is termed “super zips”. Today, when they make insane decisions about immigration, they know that their lives will not be affected. It was not always thus in the U.S.

    Those Muslim nuts were hailed as the great Mujahideen when Regan used them against the Godless Soviets. And? In fact those Mujahideen were never really U.S. allies. Almost all our aid was flowed to them via the Pakistani ISI, and in reality we had little direct contact with the Mujahideen in Afghanistan. We also were not the only ones funding them – Osama Bin Laden was funding them as well (he never dealt with the U.S. or CIA or took U.S. money directly, but did get arms etc from the Pakis). But even then, the U.S. was not a major target for these Jihadis. It was only when (shortly after Russia left Afghanistan) we placed troops in Saudi Arabia to fight Saddam Hussein for the Saudis that we became an active target of Osama Bin Laden. What’s funniest about most people’s opinions on this subject is that they ignore what Bin Laden said over and over again about his motivations for attacking us. His primary motivation was our basing troops on holy muslim land – Saudi Arabia, the heart of Islam. This is seen as a cause for war by all devout Muslims. He actually offered to raise an army of Mujahid to fight Saddam (the Saudis had 35k troops, Saddam had 1 million men under arms) but was laughed out of the palace. He was so angered and ashamed by this that he fled Saudi Arabia, moving to the Sudan where he declared his war against the U.S. I know, all these facts are so boring and complicated – it is easier to just call “Regan” an idiot and move on.

    It was the oil companies that made Roosevelt strike a life long cartel deal with the founder of Saudi Arabia. It was like this :
    Roosevelt said to the Savage king Saud (the founder) :
    How about I make you an offer you can’t resist? We bring our oil companies and we both benefit. Saud, sell the oil to the world, and get to keep the money in American banks. Again, and? Your point is? Fyi, you dingbat, the reason money is kept in U.S. banks and that oil trade is done in dollars is because the dollar replaced the British pound as the world’s reserve currency and was/is the only stable currency. The dollar and U.S. banks were the best place for Saudi money – they didn’t need to be bullied into this. Also, next time you fill up your gas tank and pay 2.21 a gallon, thank the Saudis as they purposefully cut the price of oil dramatically as a political favor to the U.S., among other reasons. But setting that all aside, tell me, what was wrong with the preferential deal set up with the Saudis? It was good for us in many ways. Today, however, we don’t need them. With the stroke of a politicians pen, the U.S. could become a net exporter of oil/gas. We should do so, and let those insane Muslims slaughter themselves until they tire of it, as say the Europeans did after the 30 Year War, which actually gave rise to the international order we have today, which reduced war between those countries greatly.

    Do you think countries bring immigrants or refugees because they love them? Cheap labor ? or an eternal love? There is a commonly held belief among Western elites that our decreasing fertility can only be addressed by immigration. They do silly calculations that show how 30 million more workers will generate massive wealth and taxes when currently those workers pay no net taxes – they consume more than they contribute by a wide margin. I also think it’s been proved that the Left supports immigration as a way of destroying the hegemony of white capitalism, as a way to bring about “social justice”. Some on the right support the cheap labor as well, so this becomes a deal between two classes of fucked up elites but it’s nowhere near as simple as you want to make it seem.

    Europe didn’t bring the Muslim elite, why? Uh, the elite aren’t living in refugee camps in Jordan and Lebanon, you fucking moron.

    The Muslim elite don’t have any time to pray, they are busy fucking. Is this supposed to be clever or insightful? Cuz it ain’t.

    Ps,
    I noticed you use the word “elite” and consumerism lately!. I’ve been using those terms for a long time, I just don’t talk politics or economics much here. I also use words like “and” and “the” quite frequently, lol.

    Who came first, feminism or consumerism? The definitions matter, but in the U.S. our mass consumption culture is fueled by female consumption – they control 80% of all household spending in the U.S. (and 65% of private investment too, fyi). Are you not aware of these basic economic facts?

    Who came first, the elite or capitalists? See my opening salvo for a reply to this. It’s such a stupid question, I just can’t be bothered to answer it.

    Ps2,
    ALL religions are violent. You fucktard, human beings and human civilization are violent. Religions reflect this. But if your larger point is that there isn’t something innately violent about Islam, all I can say is that you obviously have no idea about Islamic history or the tenets of Islam. Here’s a fact for you to choke on. Since 9/11, there have been over 27,000 Islamic Jihadi terror attacks on innocents around the world with hundreds of thousands killed or maimed. No other religion on earth is driving this kind of violence. Islamists kill more people each year than were killed in the entire 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition. There is no equivalence, but then again, I study actual history, while you seem get your information from bloggers and YouTube.
    Ps3,

    9-11, was committed by 18 Saudis, do you think the American oil elite would abandon the Saudi elite for 3000 Americans? Another imbecilic question. The Saudis didn’t attack us – Bin Laden did. And if we stopped buying Saudi oil on Sep 12, 2001, nothing would be different. Even more to the point, if you had any sophistication about foreign affairs, you’d realize that the kind of “realism” which informed our deal with the Saudis has been very good for the U.S. You see, we weren’t attacked on 9/11 because of our oil deal, it was because we put troops in Saudi Arabia in Desert Storm and never brought them home (as I described above) But even then, that action was about preventing Saddam Hussein from achieving hegemony in the mideast. Your entire conception and construction of the politics at work is so juvenile and ahistorical that you miss utterly the complex forces at work and the real challenges the U.S. faces as a large power. If you’d like to learn more about foreign policy “Realism” and the actual issues large powers like the U.S. face in the world, I direct you towards say John Mearsheimer, a brilliant political scientist out of the University of Chicago. Of course, his ideas aren’t perfect either, but if you did bother to study his thinking you’d have a much greater appreciation for the “great game” of international politics.

    Bottom line, Keyser? Read more and talk less about geopolitics, cuz you are just emitting weak agit prop. It’s as common as peas on the internet, but that doesn’t make what you are saying any more valid or insightful.

    I bet you use the word “banksters” a lot, doncha?

  61. @ scribbler

    mostly agree; keyser’s not entirely wrong

    The Forbes 500 have significant negative influence on politics. They tolerate gradual change and can be forced to support significant change by leftists by means of govt. pressure. It would be good to eliminate political contributions by all for-profit corporations. It’s also good to keep the size of any institution below 10K employees or they just have too big an impact on our economy, politics, etc.

    Look at which industries are most affected by federal policies and you will see them donating heavily to leftists.

    Keyser’s very wrong to say ALL religions are violent. Politics is where violence occurs. The Crusades were primarily political and a response to muslim aggression. More similar to the Cold War than anything. Domino Theory stuff and all about establishing client states and bases near Jerusalem.

    Sometimes religious people enter politics when they perceive a need and it is exceptional, as in the Crusades. Sometimes a particular religion uses politics to advance the religion, as in Islam. Very different reasons for religious people entering politics. Islam is set up to be quiescent when its adherents lack power in a region, to be able to radicalize moderates when it needs them to increase its power in a region, and to be somewhat tolerant when it dominates a region. Christianity doesn’t follow this strategy. So Keyser is almost entirely wrong in equating religions as violent.

  62. Sorry to thread-jack here, not like it already wasn’t though; remember, Rollo doesn’t like to talk about politics or religion and that’s where the discussion has gone. And Rollo doesn’t like to talk about this either … and disagrees with this conclusion quite a bit, lol. Ran across this on reddit:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3ulb3q/5_key_traits_to_be_successful_with_women/

    Basically its a list of traits that will make your chances of being successful with women pretty easy. And what you can do about improving those areas. Also throws in some “loopholes” which you can use to “overcome” a lacking in one or more of those key attributes.

    Basically says that for a lot of people you will NEVER become an Alpha or be very successful with women … no matter how hard you try. Alpha is not just a mindset like Rollo likes to say. Its more than that. And I agree with most of what’s in that post, though didn’t like the poster’s reference to “Not a sperg” (sorry, eadsgamer you probably find that offensive, and it is). I would more say “socially inept” is a better term. And many normal “introverts” or “nerds” would fit into that same category. Being successful with women demands being a social butterfly and many men are just not that; autistic or not.

    I particularly like the concept of “LOOPHOLES” … radical things you can do to change your odds … grow long hair and play in a band … will dramatically increase your attraction level. Stuff like that. Like in my situation, since I have $$$ available I throw that into the mix and it changes things dramatically. I started with escorts but got tired of the bullshit and recently changed to SBs. What’s the difference between spinning plates and spinning SBs … not much, except money means I don’t have to work as hard to get what I want. And I can pretty much guarantee that I only get top tier women; HB7s and above. Why would I pay to be with a fatty ???

    A lot of that Reddit post does in fact reinforce what Rollo preaches here; in fact this very article … Attitude Sells. And #5 on the dude’s list is GAME, learning game can in fact increase you chances dramatically as long as you don’t fail at the other stuff.

    Anyway, food for thought. I’m sure many here will not agree and that’s ok. Peace.

  63. @rocket

    the thread has 0 points, is only 38% upvoted, and here is a comment that has 14 points:

    One of the worst posts in a while

    why recycle garbage?

  64. @redlight

    “why recycle garbage?”

    Because its the truth. If you are very short, non-white, ugly, and are an introvert … your odds of being successful into today’s FI dominated climate is ZERO and there is nothing you can do about it. That the kind of news guys want to hear ? Of course not, that’s why its downvoted. Doesn’t mean its not true.

    But whatever works for you, man. I’m living by those rules (using a Loophole) and its working for me. Fucked the new SB twice yesterday. SB #1 twice the day before. How is “Alpha is just an Attitude” working for you ?

  65. @ASD – “The Forbes 500 have significant negative influence on politics. They tolerate gradual change and can be forced to support significant change by leftists by means of govt. pressure. It would be good to eliminate political contributions by all for-profit corporations. It’s also good to keep the size of any institution below 10K employees or they just have too big an impact on our economy, politics, etc.”

    What fatuous horseshit. In fact, the Forbes 500 and all other private businesses are the engines of huge amounts human progress, you babbling fool. And omigod – businesses have interests and seek their best advantage under whatever politics they reside under – holy shit, call the police, it’s got be a fucking crime. As well, you pick these arbitrary numbers like 10k employee limits based on nothing but your fevered imagination.

    Let me try and explain how liberty works as you seem to not understand it. Basically, for corporations and their political speech activities, there are two freedoms at stake;

    – Freedom of association. You see, ASD, as free people we have complete freedom to form groups and associations and – OMIGOD – form corporations too. If we happen to form an association that’s about making “profit” (which you seem to feel is a moral problem of some sort), that in now way lessens the right to freely associate.

    – Freedom of expression. It’s not limited to individuals and never has been. We always have the right to speak collectively just as freely as we do when we speak individually, particularly about politics, in a free society. If we choose to do so collectively – as literally hundreds of thousands of organizations/associations in the U.S. do – those who do don’t lose their freedom to express themselves.

    You could save yourself the histrionics by just reading the Citizens United decision which lays all this out. Your position is actually anti-liberty and anti-First Amendment and you don’t even know it, lol, you fucking fool.

    Fyi, in the real world of actual political, historical and economic analysis you don’t hear hysterical, populist anti-corporate rhetoric like this. You only hear this from wingnut anarchists, half-assed libertarians and rabid leftists. It’s not analysis, its hyperbole and agit prop. Really.

    Funniest is your hamhanded attempt to separate Christianity from bloody violence, lol. I mean, one has to ignore 1000 years of European history to make such a completely ignorant statement. The Thirty Years War brought all this to a head and the West began to reform itself, as Christianity did too. Of course, Christianity and Islam are quite different – none of this means Christianity wasn’t a bloody enterprise for a very long time. No serious historian would argue with this.

    Do you actually study any of the subjects you babble about? ‘Cuz it doesn’t seem like it.

  66. @ scribbler the eater of meadow muffins

    “What fatuous horseshit. In fact, the Forbes 500 and all other private businesses are the engines of huge amounts human progress, you babbling fool.”

    Hey, enough with the intellectual pap. Get both your neurons firing and get off of the knee-jerk conservatism. The fact is that the Forbes 500 push lots of social leftist programs. I’m not a populist, but I realize that the bigger the institution, the greater its power. If that institution gets coopted by leftists, it can do great harm. I’m not saying that they don’t produce jobs, but they definitely push feminist programs. Quit being stupid.

  67. @rocket

    you pay for sex and you need to have a stupid article to prove to you that you have no other choice. whatever works for you, just don’t pitch this bullshit to other men

  68. @ scribbler, the imbiber of leftist revisionist whine

    Funniest is your hamhanded attempt to separate Christianity from bloody violence, lol. I mean, one has to ignore 1000 years of European history to make such a completely ignorant statement. The Thirty Years War brought all this to a head and the West began to reform itself, as Christianity did too. Of course, Christianity and Islam are quite different – none of this means Christianity wasn’t a bloody enterprise for a very long time. No serious historian would argue with this.

    Not since the 30s, when leftists coopted the history depts. at academic institutions. Fucking imbecile.

  69. @Rocket – First things first – Rollo can speak for himself. We definitely have excursions from the post’s subject covering topics from physics to pizza dough. Rollo doesn’t discuss politics but he has no prohibition on it being discussed here.

    Now, lets get down to your inanity. Stop bragging about hiring whores – SBs or not. I’ve fucked young hot whores, and I’ve had a couple of girls I fucked who were like mini-SBs and it’s NOTHING LIKE THE VOLUNTARY SURRENDER OF A WOMAN. It’s nothing like actual hot desire.

    I get it. You don’t want to improve yourself, great, why don’t you instead go to the “Whore Optimizing” website then? What you do takes nothing, just cash, and accordingly you have nothing to teach us. Sure, game plays into any relationship with women, even whores and you can have a good time with such women, as far as it goes.

    But do this. Try to see your SB more frequently than you pay for. Invite her to hang around to keep you company, off the clock sometime. Or call her after you’ve had a bad day and ask her if you can come over and cuddle up on the couch and watch a movie. Nope – none of that is available to you. Only sex and even under the best of circumstances (which I’ve had, my two SBS were massage girls who I converted to fucking me for shopping/dinner etc.), it’s mostly not desire sex. It’s obligation sex. Keep in mind next time she’s sucking your dick that she can’t wait for you to come and for it to be over. Keep in mind she laughs about you when you aren’t in the room. And also keep in mind she’s probably spending some of that money you give her on some guy she loves fucking for free.

    You seem to believe that we are mostly misguided here, right? Why are you here then? Could it be that deep down inside you hate yourself for having to settle for whores? Could it be that deep down inside you hate not being good enough to get a decent looking woman to fuck you? Could it be your elaborate explanations and justifications of whoring (that none of us are edified by in the least) are just your ego’s defense mechanism? Take a good look inside instead of yelling at us and answer these questions for yourself.

    Me? I’m gonna go fuck my 26 yr old hot spinner. I’m giving her blowjob lessons, lol. My text to her (I know her BF is out of town): “Do you want to continue your training?” Her reply? “Sure”. It took two years of work to get here and it also took giving up being right about my misery. I invite you to consider that you don’t know what you could accomplish given the will and and effort. I had forgotten that was true too, but one can always wake up. Why don’t you try? Take a year, take self-improvement seriously and see how it goes.

    But whatever you do, stop telling us whoring is the answer. Just stop, you look ridiculous.

  70. @ scribbler, the Constitution scholar wannabe

    Your position is actually anti-liberty and anti-First Amendment

    Nope. I’m for 1st amendment rights for citizens–not for persons. Citizens can still associate in not-for-profit associations to influence politics. Minimize the political influence of big business.

  71. But whatever you do, stop telling us whoring is the answer. Just stop, you look ridiculous.

    Signed. I could afford whores easily on my salary. However, having had actual women with actual desire for me before I am absolutely certain I wouldn’t find it satisfying in the least. It would feel like the obligation sex that happens right before the end of a relationship, and that shit is just awful.

  72. @ASD – And the lesson in liberty flies right over your head. No surprise but really, stupid isn’t one of my problems on this topic. It sure seems like it is for you though – I mean, I do have a SCOTUS decision on my side. And I’m not a conservative at all. But hey, keep flailing about with your inane thoughts and rhetoric, I’m sure it achieves the result you are seeking – ego defense and aggrandizement. I’m actually trying to sort you out and teach you something but you are not teachable. Fine with me – remain an ignorant ass, it’s your choice.

    Even more ridiculous? Your assertions that Christianity’s history only became violent after some leftist revisionist history, lol . Your rabid Christianity is making a complete fool of you. Keep it up though, it shows everyone else here just who you are. There is nothing worse than someone who changes history to support their biases.

    In 2000, Pope John Paul II apologized for the violent history of the Roman Catholic church – what, was he confused too?

    Here are just some of the Catholic Church’s most notable acts of horrendous violence.

    1096 Roman Catholic crusaders slaughter half the Jews in Worms, Germany.
    1098 Roman Catholic crusaders slaughter almost all of the inhabitants of the city of Antioch.
    1099 Roman Catholic crusaders massacre 70,000 Muslims and Jews when they capture Jerusalem.
    1208 – 1226 The Albigensian Crusades in southern France. Roman Catholic crusaders slaughter approximately 20,000 citizens of Beziers, France, on July 22, 1209. Albigensian Christians and Catholics were slain. By the time the Roman Catholic armies finished their “crusade,” almost the entire population of southern France (mostly Albigensian Christians) has been exterminated. During the six centuries of papal Inquisition that began in the 13th century, up to 50 million people were killed. Read what J. A. Wylie’s The History of Protestantism has to say about the Crusades against the Abigenses
    1236 Roman Catholic crusaders slaughter Jews in the Anjou and Poitou regions of western France. The Catholic crusaders trample to death under their horses 3000 Jews who refuse baptism.
    1243 Roman Catholic mobs burn alive all the Jews in Berlitz, Germany (near Berlin).
    1298 Roman Catholic mobs burn alive all Jews in Rottingen, Germany.
    April 26, 1349 Roman Catholic mobs burn to death all Jews in Germersheim, Germany.
    1348 – 1349 The Jews are blamed for the bubonic plague. Author Dave Hunt tells us, “Accused of causing the ‘Black Death’ Jews were rounded up [by Roman Catholic mobs] and hanged, burned, and drowned by the thousands in revenge.”
    1389 Roman Catholic mobs murder 3000 Jews in Prague when they refuse to be baptized.
    1481 – 1483 At the direction of the Roman Catholic inquisitors, authorities burn at the stake at least 2000 people during the first two years of the Spanish Inquisition.
    1540 – 1570 Roman Catholic armies butcher at least 900,000 Waldensian Christians of all ages during this 30-year period.
    1550 – 1560 Roman Catholic troops slaughter at least 250,000 Dutch Protestants via torture, hanging, and burning during this ten-year period.
    1553 – 1558 Roman Catholic Queen Mary I of England (aka “bloody Mary”) attempts to bring England back under the yoke of papal tyranny. During her reign, approximately 200 men and woman are burned to death at the sake. Her victims include bishops, scholars, and other Protestant leaders.
    Public Domain https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Assassinat_de_Coligny_et_massacre_de_la_Saint-Barth%C3%A9lemy.jpg
    Public Domain https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Assassinat_de_Coligny_et_massacre_de_la_Saint-Barth%C3%A9lemy.jpg
    1572 St. Bartholomew’s Day Massacre. French Roman Catholic soldiers begin killing Protestants in Paris on the night of August 24, 1572. The soldiers kill at least 10,000 Protestants during the first three days. At least 8000 more Protestants are killed as the slaughter spreads to the countryside.
    1618 – 1648 The Thirty Years’ War. This bloody, religious war is planned, instigated, and orchestrated by the Roman Catholic Jesuit order and its agents in an attempt to exterminate all the Protestants in Europe. Many countries in central Europe lose up to half their population.
    1641 – 1649 Eight years of Jesuit-instigated Roman Catholic butchery of Irish Protestants claims the lives of at least 100,000 Protestants.
    1685 French Roman Catholic soldiers slaughter approximately 500,000 French Protestant Huguenots on the orders of Roman Catholic King Louis 14 of France.
    Circa 1938 – 1945 Catholic dictators such as Adolf Hitler and Monsignor Tiso slaughter approximately six million Jews in Europe prior to and during World War 2.
    1941 – 1945 The Roman Catholic Ustashi in the fascist state of Croatia butcher up to one million Serbian Orthodox Christians. Roman Catholic killer squads are often led by Franciscan priests, monks, and friars. This genocide is choreographed by two Jesuit prelates: Aloysius Stepinac and Ivan Saric.

    ASD – Shut the fuck up. You have no idea what you are talking about.

  73. We’re already starting to see the tide turning against Big Business when it comes to media. Small media groups and blogs are causing an increasing percentage of people to ignore MSM. Cable is likewise under attack from Hulu and Netflix. Sports, weather, and local news are cable’s main advantage.

    The current attack against Big Ag is a leftist game. I have no position about GMOs, but the whole thing smells of an attempt to purge non-leftists from the FDA.

    The new 3D printing industry looks like it could turn into a run around Big Business.

  74. No question that Christian sects, including the RC, started fucking around in politics as far back as Constantine and political powers like kings and parliaments started killing and persecuting people. It’s still primarily a political thing.

  75. @Sun – It’s even worse than that. He thinks we need his advice and coaching on whoring and that he’s “gaming” his whores, lol. What’s to learn? How to use an ATM? How to talk tough to a whore? Lol, I think most of us can handle that without any advice. And many of us have some experience in this dept.

    Fyi, one point though. I have had some paid encounters that were pretty nice and sexy. Once you know the girl and it’s comfortable, they can kind of get a little confused because of the sexual context. Also, if you are cagey, you can get them aroused and while it’s not necessarily hair pulling, spittle spraying, balls to the wall sex, it still can be good. Not saying it’s what anyone should do but that was my experience and at times it wasn’t awful. I don’t choose to do so anymore, post Red Pill.

    I do think for guys who are utterly incompetent with women, the occasional whore fuck is an improvement but that gets back to my original point. What advice do we need to do that? None. And you can be sure more than a few men on this site already do so.

  76. @ASD – You present as though it’s a revelation that politics and religion intertwine when it came to the bloody religious wars of Europe as though that is some kind of insight, lol. Of course that’s true but it’s also true that the European wars of religion immediately following the onset of The Protestant Reformation were primarily about religion and conversion. I mean, you did study the wars of “The Holy Roman Empire” – or are you going to call those “sectarian political squabbles”? Here’s a nice wikipedia page on the Scottish Reformation and how that played out. Please, try and tell me this was primarily political and had nothing to do with Christianity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Reformation I only mention it as one example of many, but it’s really easy to get one’s head around.

    You are so far out of your depth in this conversation, ASD. And I’m not unhappy or emotional. I just am tired of bullshit being presented as fact by people who haven’t bothered to study topics they blather about. Like you.

  77. @scribblerg

    “It’s even worse than that. He thinks we need his advice and coaching on whoring and that he’s “gaming” his whores, lol. What’s to learn? How to use an ATM?”

    Care to back that up with some quotes … from stuff I actually said ? Use the search and have at it. You got no quotes? Then you are a liar and full of shit. I never said I was “gaming” whores and actually said that what I was doing was not for everyone and specifically, that I’d given up seeing escorts. SBs are a different breed. Neither of the 2 I am seeing are professionals at all. In fact, I know for a fact SB #2 is the first she’s ever seen for money (her divorce isn’t even final yet) and I’m pretty sure #1 is the same.

    Frankly your attitude sucks. Anyone who disagrees with you is a moron and you treat them like that. Or you misconstrue them to be something they’re not. From one of your recent posts its seems we’ve had similar experiences except for one difference. The ladies I see, be it an escort or an SB, actually like me and the sex we have. Orgasms prove it. Unlike you which seems to be obligation sex. I have had lots of “extra” and free of charge services; from the escorts I used to see. I’ve had them drive over 100 miles to see me, spend the night, go to dinner where all I do is pay for dinner like a date, etc. Maybe you were an ATM, but I wasn’t.

    But not gonna get into a shitfest here because it isn’t worth it. Not sure where all the animosity came from on here recently. I never claimed what I was doing was right for everyone; works for me and I’m happy with it. Thats all that counts. Rollo has a position here … ANYONE can be an Alpha as long as he works hard enough. I disagree with that and the Reddit post I reffed, espoused similar ideals. Forgive me if I’m telling people how people how to “game” whores.

    Peace. And again, peac, … not like it seems to matter …

  78. “I’m for 1st amendment rights for citizens–not for persons.”

    I am for 1st amendment rights for natural persons, who have inalienable rights whether they are citizens or not – not for legal persons, who are granted personhood by an act of law, not by natural right.

    Citizenship is likewise a legal state, not a natural one, although some countries recognize the natural citizen as well. The United States of America is one of these (defined by the Constitution), Japan is not.

  79. @ babbler_g, who hasn’t read his Richard III

    Religion is often used as an excuse for political repression. And religious prelates sometimes pressure political powers to persecute members of other denominations. So what? It’s still primarily about politics. There is no mandate in Christianity to do these things, unlike Islam.

    Maybe you’re Jewish and have a fanatical hatred of Christianity?

  80. Hitler took the bent cross as the symbol of his Reich from the coat of arms of the Catholic monastery school where he was studying to become a priest.

    Is it accurate to say that The Hitler(tm) was a Catholic? No, I don’t think so. Is it accurate to say that he wasn’t a Catholic? No, I don’t think so. Martin Luther himself was a Catholic.

  81. @ kfg

    Hitler may have studied for the priesthood, but Hitler wasn’t a Catholic dictator. His doings weren’t motivated by any attempt to advance Catholicism, he didn’t attend Mass, etc.

  82. @rocketroll

    So we text on Sunday about getting together. She wants to know how much she’ll get paid and I tell her .. so I tell her, ok so get back in your car and follow me to my place … And that’s exactly what we did. Well, except for at the beginning when she went into the bathroom and didn’t come out for a long, long time. …
    HOLDING FRAME: I told her what was going to happen and that’s EXACTLY WHAT DID HAPPEN.

    You paid for sex (again). Since this might have been the first time she was having sex for money, she spent a long, long time in your bathroom, why would you guess? She was overcome with desire?

    Holding Frame is ridiculous here. I went to McD’s, I ordered a hamburger, I paid for it, it came, I held frame, it’s amazing. You want to sell others on your bullshit, and explain that Rollo is wrong? You quote a thread on r/theredpill that is widely considered one of the worse postings (read the fucking comments). Hold frame at your own idiotic blog.

  83. @scribblerg. You can see a donkey carrying books in his saddle, but that doesn’t make the donkey educated.

    The USA didn’t create the Mujahideen? LOL. LMAO.

    Here is a YouTube (source of my education)video for Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzezinski!! Lolzzzzzzololzzzzzzzzzooooo
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kYvO3qAlyTg

    Oh wait here is Clinton too
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dqn0bm4E9yw

    It’s the oil for the big elite / capitalists, STUPID. And, you? You are nothing with comparison to the real capitalists.
    Capitalists, deal with billions, you get pennies.

    Bin Laden’s first grievances was, the oil money, not America’s military. He used the poor Saudi to fight his real cause.

    I’m sorry to tell you, more than 60 millions died in the 2ww . What about the 1ww?
    Were they Muslims?

    Who slaughtered the native in North and South America? Was it the Muslims?

    Bush, took America to war with Iraq for what? American soldiers died in Iraq for the big oil companies not saddams chemical.

    Muslim slaughter each other and Christians/jews too.

    So please, don’t just say Islam is the only violent religion.
    Here is some violence, brought to you by, the old testament, the Bible, and the Quran.

    http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/ot_list.html

    Ps,
    I can refute your comment some more, but, I don’t want to bother.

    Ps,
    Do you have Impulsive disorder?.

  84. @redlight-two-faced-lying-asshole-with-a-tiny-dick-and-can’t-get-laid-troll

    Look at your own post asshole. Like I raped someone who is unwilling. Or had sex with a whore. Neither is true and everyone knows it despite the garbage in your lies. Holding frame with a “would be” Sugar Baby and turning them into a real one is what separates the men from the boyz. Waiting for a virgin to come to grips with reality and for them to come out of the bathroom to face a guy they don’t even know and who is going to fuck them silly is what its all about. Does that take frame-control … why you fuck-tard it does, big time. And that seriously despite your bullshit, that is the definition of being a man and holding frame. And I laugh at the aholes who think they know what its like to see an escort in the US. You do know its illegal, right. And I’m not talking a street walker skank; top dollar, high class, hooker. Ever seen one? Can you get past screening ? Been beaten by a pimp ? Ripped off? Arrested ? Thought not, asshole. You are fucktard, like all the rest. Can’t face that YOUR view of the world isn’t held by everyone. Not even Rollo, he’s close. Closer than any of the bloggers; but he is not reality. See the Reddit post. Men cannot morph into “Alpha” just cause they want to. Don’t work that way.

  85. Blaximus

    Never show fear or doubt. You can feel that shit ( until you exorcise it from your mind ), but maintain composure always.

    You know, all the warrior teachings from around the planet in a way distill to that.

    More prosaically, as others have explained, it’s like getting a dog. I wound up with a half stray a few years back, the dog books all say not to do that. Eh. Dog or bitch, the canine brain is wired to follow the pack leader. Dogs can’t speak human. They can’t think like humans. So a man has to learn to “speak dog”. That means either I’m the pack leader and the dog submits, or the dog will try to become the pack leader, and that means the dog expects me to submit. You can see this in some old people who have a dog that runs the house, owning everything.

    The dog wants dominance. The dog needs to be dominated from time to time in order to feel secure about me as pack leader. And one great gift I give to the dog – I expect compliance and submission. When I’ve dealt with the dog from a perspective of “Oh, heck, she’s probably going to act up” I’ve gotten a rebellious dog. Once I smartened up and approached the dog with an attitude of “I’m the pack leader, you will submit to me” things were easier. And with a small, 30 pound, dog it’s easy to just roll her on her back once in a while.

    The lessons of dog training carry over to human interactions. “Don’t show fear or doubt” is one of the first.

    Looking back at times when I’ve gotten along well as part of a team, or with subordinates and superiors, I realize that the times when I was certain and sure of my abilities were the best of times. Even when I screwed up, I screwed up with confidence, and just happened to get cut some slack when it was needed.

    Maintain frame. Always maintain frame. Around clients / customers, around superiors, around subordinates, around horses, dogs, even cats. And always maintain frame around women.

    I need some of that super peripheral vision Blaximus has, and I do believe I know how to work on it.

  86. @Rocket, why do you prefer prostitutes over the genuine desire of a woman who is into fucking you unsolicited? Granted, you’ll pay for sex in some form or another regardless of how you go about it:

    http://therationalmale.com/2012/01/09/services-rendered/

    However, if you’d say it’s because it’s a simpler matter than to hope you can play Alpha well enough convince a woman to genuinely be aroused by you, well, I can definitely see your point. In spite of the numerous in-fields that YaReally offers here every week, I suppose I can see how a subset of men who really don’t want to learn how women work, and have little hope and less incentive to make themselves more than they are to be a closer ideal for women, I get that aversion.

    You still need sex, and you’ll still have at least a baseline responsibility to a burden of performance insofar as you’ll need the money to enjoy an average hooker, to say nothing of a top shelf escort. But then again, why bother with any of that?

    If pragmatism is the order of your life, let me be the first to say I think you’re still getting ripped off from a pay-to-play perspective. Why not simply snap one out to the veritably free and ubiquitous online porn videos any time and any where? If all that matters is getting off, why not demonstrate your dedication to going your own way and shrugging even more of the burden of performance you think makes you a slave by rubbing one out as needed and then getting on to being the ‘enlightened man’ MGTOWs seem to think they could be if only they could become men independent of sex?

    In my view you and the rest of that sort of MGTOW lack conviction. If you were really dedicated to being free, “enlightened” men, unburdened by performance, you’d only jerk off without the aid of stimulating porn when it was physically necessary.

    But then you’d probably visualize some hot girl at work and then she’d have control over you again,…

Speak your mind

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