Don’t Hate the Beta

beta_hate

A common refrain I hear from even some well meaning Red Pill aware men is that there is some degree of disdain for the “Beta” man in the sphere. There’s not so much a rejection of apparent Red Pill truths as there is a schoolyard mentality when it comes to characterizing a guy as Alpha or Beta. This is where where a lot of guys turn themselves off to the Red Pill in a community sense.

In a way I suppose it becomes reminiscent of guys having been bullied in their formative years by the guys they now have a mental image of being archetypically “Alpha”. So it follows that concepts like AMOGing or running a ‘Boyfriend Destroyer’ script is distasteful; a lot of men, that is to say the 80%+ Beta men, have likely experienced this disqualification in direct or indirect ways in their youth. Sometimes that may simply be a girl he had his ONEitis sights set on opting for a more Alpha guy after telling him she wasn’t ready for a relationship, or it may be a more direct experience of having sand metaphorically kicked in his face.

Thus it becomes a matter of course to entirely dismiss the nuts & bolts understanding of how abstracts like Alpha and Beta are used in the sphere. The default understanding goes something like this, “Those Red Pillers just hate on Betas to build themselves up” or some other version of this where the Red Pill becomes a Machiavellian free for all at the expense of other, ‘lesser’, men.

It’s either this or the abstractions of Alpha and Beta are reduced to absurd binary interpretations; Alphas become ridiculous ‘douchebag’ parodies and Betas become pathetic, simpering doormats for the world to tread upon. In either case the purpose of reducing these abstracts as such is an effort in dismissing the uncomfortable, as well as evidently observable qualities and truths of the intersexual environment that plays out around us.

For the record I think it’s important for Red Pill men to remain as objective and disinvested from making qualitative assumptions about what constitutes the Alpha and Beta abstractions. I don’t hate, pity or resent Beta men. Neither do I embrace the idea that Alpha archetypes as necessarily positive or negative. For the moment however, I’m going to focus on Beta men.

The Presumption of Control

As I mentioned above, one of the primary dismissals men have when they encounter Red Pill thought is to blow it off because “it’s all just a bunch of hating on Betas.” And that presumption comes only if a guy is willing to consider the abstracts of Alpha and Beta in the first place – most simply don’t want to recognize specific ‘statuses’ or defining characteristics of men or women, and just fall back on the “all is relative, all is subjective” mindset they’ve been conditioned to. People are People, there is no human “nature” so there is no male or female “nature”.

But for the guy who at least accepts the idea of human natures, I can certainly understand the reservations of men whose identities were conditioned to a more Beta role. There’s not much positive to characterize a Beta mindset with beyond the utility that conditioning serves to society and women’s sexual strategy. Betas do in fact get laid; the terms on which, and how their sexuality fits their utilitarian role in women’s Hypergamous plan is the real question.

I was recently asked if I thought Beta men employing Beta Game was a successful strategy in the larger scheme of things. If success means that Beta Game will get him laid, I’m incredulous about it. The presumption is that the Beta man employing that ‘game’ is in some way directing and controlling the outcome of his ‘success’. I’d argue that what he believes is ‘game’ is simply his utility to a woman coming into an optimal window for her necessity of him. So is his ‘strategy’ really successful, or is he simply the best ‘Plan B‘ a woman has available to her while her own SMV decays to the point where he’s her best option?

Is that Beta really in control? Or is he simply situationally useful?

I think a lot of what guys new to the manosphere perceive as Beta hate is simply the presumption of control they believe they should be able to exercise with women. After having been told for the the better part of their lives that the more accommodating and identifying with women they are will lead to them being accepted by women it’s a presumption that this is some means of socially acceptable control for them.

It’s very galling to have men place fault on a guy for things he knows are out of his control. I fully understand the angst and frustration that leads to things like Beta Uprising and men frustrated with intersexual dynamics taking it out on the whole of society before they swallow a bullet themselves.

It essentially amounts to victim blaming; Betas are hapless and hopeless mules brainwashed and indentured to serve not just the Feminine Imperative (which would be galling enough), but also to have the pains and strivings that society demands of them be rewarded with women’s genuine intimate interests focusing on Alpha men.

That sucks.

PUAs telling a guy it’s on him as to why women are boring to him, or uninterested in him sexually, only reinforces that angst. It’s like a pastor telling you that if you’d only prayed harder or more earnestly God would have cured your Mom of cancer. So they hate the Alpha, they hate the PUA, they hate the hotchickswithdouchebags guy, but they also hate women and the social/biological mechanics of the position they’re placed in. It presumes a control that he believes he’s never had, nor ever will.

So there comes a point where that Beta wants, sometimes adamantly insists, for his own burden of performance to be replaced, or at least handicapped, by a woman meeting him half way. This want is rooted in his Blue Pill presumption that people are people and in the equalist notion that women’s hindbrains can (willingly) be overridden when it comes to arousal, attraction and intersexual dynamics. Again, if there is no human nature it should stand to reason that a woman could potentially choose that Beta for all the reasons he’s been conditioned to believe she should choose him for. If there is a female nature, and that nature follows (with some degree of consistency) Red Pill aware truths, then his frustrations are founded on his own lack.

But these guys aren’t Blue Pill oblivious men, they are Red Pill aware. They see the truth and that leads to their awakening to the cruel reality that they’re in. So when these guys are put into that place they have a few choices: Snap and take out themselves and as many others as they can, go isolationist MGTOW and retreat to minimal societal investment, go MRA and impotently try to enact legislation that they think will even the social playing filed from the top down, or they can take a realistic look at themselves and reinvent themselves to better play the Game.

The Burden of Fault

Whether it’s fair or not, by virtue of being a man, you’re going to have to accept your burden of performance. That burden includes your liability of accepting fault even for things that aren’t your fault per se. It’s not your fault that you were born and raised into a feminine-primary social order that conditioned you to be an accommodating utility for it – but irrespective of that, you will be held liable for not complying with it or resisting it. You are a man, you will always be accountable.

Is that fucked up? Yes. So with that in mind it is up to you as a Red Pill aware Man to decide for yourself what is worth your investment. Yes my friend, women can be amazing, interesting vivacious and fun, but they can also be fucked up and stupid and absolutely not worth your time, money and effort. It isn’t your fault they are the way they are, but it is your fault for investing yourself in something you’re not enjoying or profiting by.

With all of the railing against women not being worthwhile one would think that would prompt these men to being indifferent to women – but they aren’t. Even the most ardent MGTOW and hapless Beta Red Pill denier still wants women; he simply wants her in his context and his frame on his terms – and to genuinely want to be a part of all that. There’s nothing wrong with this desire, this is precisely what I advise with regards to Frame control, but the disconnect comes in how men go about establishing a Frame women want to be a part of.

Get Out There

I may debate with other men’s takes on how the importance of looks plays in to a man’s overall Game and appeal, but one thing I won’t argue with is the importance of men putting themselves out there and into situations that will most certainly take them out of their comfort zones.

For almost 20 years I have made a living doing exactly this. I have worked in gaming, liquor and brand development ventures that have put me into venues that range from Goth/Alternative/Hipster sets to LGBT events, to mixing with men and women who have the type of wealth that most people don’t even know exists. My career, family and personal life has been my Red Pill classroom and laboratory for all this, and in all of these contexts I have found a way to enjoy myself and/or learn from these interactions.

One reason I will never look to writing Red Pill books as a career option is because it would remove me from the very source of my observations. Living it is the only way keep learning from it. On my own time, I would very likely prefer to lock myself in my studio and paint or sculpt, or to create something new to work into a brand, often to the exclusion of my wife and family and the many friends I have. I’m a very social guy, but I would probably not feel compelled to head off to a night club or any of the events I involve myself in professionally on a weekly basis.

When I’m doing a promo, I know I’m not going to hook up, so I find enjoyment in watching and learning from what I see going on around me. I can’t drink when I’m on a promo or doing a trade show, so even that can’t be a source enjoyment. So why fucking do it right? I make money at it, and it beats living in a cubicle, but I’d much rather be creating new things, new brands, new ideas than interacting with half-buzzed hipsters who think they’re too cool to be there or obnoxious 40 something divorcés ‘sampling’ vodka and hoping to drink their spinsterhood away.

I enjoy what I do and it helps me help other guys. I put myself out in the wild because it’s part of my job(s), but I honestly enjoy interacting with even the dullards and the drunks. It’s what I invest myself in. That may sound like torture to you, but it’s really contextual. I have friends I’ve made at underground Goth events who would blanch at the thought of what I do at a golf tournament. I’m not saying you need to be a social chameleon, but understand that your social education will always be domain dependent if you stay in the settings that make you the most comfortable.

Don’t Hate the Beta

As I mentioned earlier, I don’t hate Beta men. For a long time in my Blue Pill past I was one of them, and I can fully understand the want to mischaracterize an Alpha mindset in order to preserve a sense of self-worth. Beta men don’t warrant pity or disgust, but rather they need a tough harsh awakening to the reality of the situation they find themselves in.

I don’t think Beta men are hopeless, but they will remain in a state of hopelessness so long as they subscribe to a want of making things easier for their condition rather than improving themselves to better play the Game. That’s hard to hear for most Beta men and I understand the protective need for denial in this, but I know of very few Red Pill men who really despise Beta or Blue Pill men. They despise his indentured state, they despise his willful obliviousness to his conditioned uses. They despise the lengths to which Blue Pill men will go in their hope to be appreciated by the system that made them what they are.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@CaveClown. Did you know you can get a dopamine hit from good music? Sing this song to yourself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk83VHblPhE Life is so strange when its changin’, yes indeed Well I’ve seen the hard times and the pressure’s been on me But I keep on workin’ like the workin’ man do And I’ve got my act together, gonna walk all over you Sweet talkin’ people done ran me out of town And I drank enough whiskey to float a battleship around But I’m leavin’ this game one step ahead of you And you will not hear me cry ’cause I do… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

SJF,

Good stuff man

teddj4g
teddj4g
5 years ago

Andy – “Yeah, anyone that denies missing that New Relationship Energy mode is lying their ass off.” Just to be the dick: I HATE the new relationship phase. Sure, the sex is crazy, but so is everything else. I much prefer the period after newness wears off and I can set a routine. I’ll take slightly less (to a degree) crazy sex over stability any day. As long as I can figure out how to engage my wife in a few over the top romps a month, I prefer a nice steady flow of sex. It seems YaReally indentidfied me… Read more »

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
5 years ago
Reply to  teddj4g

@Andy
“It’s not like it’s hard. You should see the hungry eyes I get at the playground with my kids… Again, back to monogamy not being natural.”
I love my nephew went playing with him at the park the other day and had many nanny’s and mothers giving me a lot of signs of interest. I can’t explain it but by doing improv and rugby and mindful meditation with yoga I’ve been embodying the burden of performance.

It’s making me a better human at handling rejection and human folly.
http://www.sexscience.org/PDFs/Gender%20Differences%20and%20Similarities%20in%20Sexuality%20Final.pdf

YaReally
5 years ago

@SJF “But careful, YaReally, with the pre-conceived notions of how your life will turn out. Just like PUA game, you roll with the punches and never seek a completion in life. You are correct in admonishing men not to commit, but I have always been aware of the opposite, which is not grabbing for the gold ring (..to take a chance and reach for some goal or desire). I grabbed a gold ring once and it did not disappoint (but that’s just me YMMV).” I could get crippled for life tomorrow or my face burned up in an accident or… Read more »

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

@Ted

I stand corrected.

“Anyone that denies missing that New Relationship Energy mode is lying their ass off or has severe mental problems.”

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Yareally, “I actually think that’s why it did so well. From what I gather it’s a show about a beta chode who basically takes control of his life and becomes a badass. Pretty sure there’s a huge audience of frustrated depressed guys out there who wish they could do the same but have to settle for living it vicariously through TV shows.” Not actually. It is about a guy that was top notch when younger and generated ideas for a startup firm, sold out for $5,000 and he walked away from his gold ring (Hmm….where have I mentioned that before…….)… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
5 years ago

Andy – ROFL. Maybe.

I don’t like getting to know people. It’s tedious and time consuming. 99% of people I attempt to engage disappoint me quickly. When you’re with a new woman it’s all about “getting to know” her, and at any moment she may open her mouth, say something stupid, and send me packing.

It has less to do with pussy and more to do with people in general. I don’t like most of them, and meeting new ones is nothing but work to me. I’ve tried changing that attitude, but I’m afraid it’s baked in.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“But the mistake is in assuming that a girl will take care of me in that debilitated state. That’s the fantasy, but ask the guys who thought their girl would stick around when they became long-term useless and the “stick around” rate is a lot lower than Hollywood would have us believe and all of society will help her rationalize it away so she doesn’t feel bad about bailing.” No way in hell any red pill aware man would assume any woman would give a shit about you and your troubles when you are down. I expect fully that “she… Read more »

Liz
Liz
5 years ago

Ted: “I don’t like getting to know people. It’s tedious and time consuming. 99% of people I attempt to engage disappoint me quickly.”

The pickup “scene” is pretty much exactly what I envision hell to be like.

teddj4g
teddj4g
5 years ago

In fact, two of my closest male friends are moving out of state in the next few months. I’m annoyed because it means I need to find new ones, and it’s a long, drawn out process that’ll have more failures than successes. Especially now that full on blue pill guys simply won’t jive with my current frame of mind. Any dude that calls his wife “the boss” is immediately disqualified. Lol

Pellaeon
Pellaeon
5 years ago

@Rollo I feel like this is one of your articles that will be a cornerstone resource for discussion (eg in my opinion “Mental Point of Origin” is THE definitive concept that separates an alpha from a beta, and I commonly referred people to that post). There are many points I would like to comment on in this article. Before I do though, I want to sort out which of my criticisms stem merely from knee jerk insecurity, and which have an actual founding in fact. I hope that by the time I am ready, I will still be able to… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Tedd “I don’t like getting to know people. It’s tedious and time consuming. 99% of people I attempt to engage disappoint me quickly. When you’re with a new woman it’s all about “getting to know” her, and at any moment she may open her mouth, say something stupid, and send me packing. It has less to do with pussy and more to do with people in general. I don’t like most of them, and meeting new ones is nothing but work to me. I’ve tried changing that attitude, but I’m afraid it’s baked in.” That was my mindset 7 years… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
5 years ago

Liz – I imagine for the majority of humanity who are extroverted, the current scene rocks. Those of us who prefer NOT to engage in a lot of pointless yapping are the ones that suffer.

But now I know, and that’s half the battle!

teddj4g
teddj4g
5 years ago

SJF – I’m trying brother. There’s just so much stupidity out there if I dive in to deep I feel like I’m drowning in it. To be clear, as I said above I’m not too shabby at opening people. Every interaction was neutral to positive, but at the end I walked away wondering why I bothered. Could have used that 10 minutes to figure out some work related issue in my head. Or even just planned out the structure of my next song. Hell any number of things that require no interaction at all. I tend to feel I’ve accomplished… Read more »

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

@rugby “I love my nephew went playing with him at the park the other day and had many nanny’s and mothers giving me a lot of signs of interest.” Yeah, man… I don’t go anywhere with it, but it’s fun to flirt around. They want to be flirted with I know that. I’m sure you could snag a FB fairly easily if you wanted and that doesn’t bother you morally. If my wife was having one of those “I don’t have anything for me.” days and some other version of me came up to my wife, flirted a bit and… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

Yes, the pickup scene (bars, clubs) seem like hell to me too, but only because I never mastered it. As for people in general, love em. I don’t do alone very well, and not because of any insecurities. Just like being social and engaging. Male friends are a source of frustration though, because betas. I forget that not everyone is red pill. I actually get along with women better, because I accept who they are (children), but supplicating men are difficult. Also, lots of lazy dudes around. Lets go conquer or kill something for fucks sake! Maybe I should reread… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

“If my wife was having one of those “I don’t have anything for me.” days and some other version of me came up to my wife, flirted a bit and escalated. I’d be toast.”

Yeah, me too. Especially since her N = 1.

I’m sure she wonders what she’s missing.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Andy and CaveClown,

“If my wife was having one of those “I don’t have anything for me.” days and some other version of me came up to my wife, flirted a bit and escalated. I’d be toast.”

What are you guys saying here? I’m missing the message.

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

“The only thing sadder to me than being on my deathbed alone would be being on my deathbed expecting a woman I invested 30 years into to be there and she doesn’t show up or treats it as an inconvenience when she does.” The only thing sadder than that is dying alone knowing you don’t have any kids out there continuing your legacy. Like wtf did your Dad or your Grandfather or your Grandfather’s grandfather waste all that time busting their asses working, raising kids, dealing with bored wives if you don’t have them yourself? Personally I think it’s pretty… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

YaReally wrote

In the PUA community we call it “give her the gift of missing you”.

So I started going out dancing solo at dance studio parties long before I knew about the PUA community or the manosphere. At first Mrs. Gamer was supportive. Then I started losing weight and she became very insecure. Dread.

Without Dread, she won’t really miss you.

Kind of funny that this knucklehead says that the problem is that men don’t give their wives enough attention:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/justice-schanfarber/why-women-leave-men-they-_b_8511584.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
5 years ago

@SJF, Ah, now you can see my criticism to Yareally. His ability to game blinded his ability to understand the mental point of origin. Just pay attention to his last two posts to analyze his meaning of the SMV. Nothing he did in his life was for himself. When I make money, I make it for myself. When I keep a healthy weight, I do it for myself, because, if I found myself in a wheelchair needing someone to wipe my ass, it is the money I saved ((not memories or women in my prime SMV , not game or… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

,
Ah, now you can see my criticism to Yareally.”

NotReally

teddj4g
teddj4g
5 years ago

Cave/Andy – why would your wife have a “nothing for me” day at all? I may be lost here too, but I’d tend to think my wife always has me, and since I’m the shit that’s all she really needs anyway.

YaReally
5 years ago

@Andy “The only thing sadder than that is dying alone knowing you don’t have any kids out there continuing your legacy” And the only thing sadder than that is not being able to see the kids you have and banked all your legacy dreams on because you walked into a family court nightmare in an era where women are incentivized to take them from you to assuage their bad feels about you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rxu5wXkaViQ If I find a way to have kids safely, or hit a point where I don’t care about the risks, cool, I might give it a go,… Read more »

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

“What are you guys saying here? I’m missing the message.”

Eh, I’ll admit it bothers me a bit that wives are fair game for a lot of PUAs. I feel like it’s taking an M60 and mowing down some dude standing in front of you with a knife.

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

I’ll admit an insecurity on being able to “keep her”

YaReally
5 years ago

@Andy
“Eh, I’ll admit it bothers me a bit that wives are fair game for a lot of PUAs.”

What should bother you is that PUAs are fair game for a lot of wives.

YaReally
5 years ago

We’re not doing anything they don’t want to do, or don’t instigate themselves, or won’t do with any other guy at some point. Like I’ve said before the only girls that won’t cheat are the ones who are fully satisfied with their man (aka he’s triggering their Hypergamy) because he didn’t let himself go to shit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HghViV1Trg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2lwNe-sTtA We HOPE you can step up and keep your girl attracted. I HOPE married/taken chicks don’t want to fuck me. But when they’re out on a girl’s night out and you’re at home being lame and she comes up to me flirting… Read more »

YaReally
5 years ago

A lot of the “those guys are bad because they don’t respect the marriage” stuff is based around guys thinking that because they invested a bunch of time/money they’re “owed” commitment from the girl. That’s what Hollywood and society and those wedding vows told them when they signed up. But it was bullshit, Hypergamy doesn’t care and if you let your value slip she will look for it elsewhere. That’s not fair from a man’s perspective, but that’s how it works. When I hear ohh YaReally you’re going to fail by not reproducing and passing on your legacy it’s like… Read more »

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
5 years ago

Hey Yareally : I’m fat ,what should I do? Yareally : Don’t worry, women don’t care if you’re fat, just use game. Hey Yareally : I want to lift weight ? Yareally : Don’t worry, women don’t care about muscles , just use game. Hey Yareally : I don’t have any money ? Yareally : Women don’t care about money, just use game. Hey Yareally, I want to make my girlfriend to miss me? Yareally : move out, buy a second condo. But, Yareally, I live in a basement. Yareally : just use game , here is some videos of… Read more »

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

“And the only thing sadder than that is not being able to see the kids” Yeah, that’s fucked up. My next door neighbor sees his kids two weeks a year. But either way, you’re not seeing your kids whether they exist or not. That’s really the most fucked up thing about it. You can shit on men as much as humanly possible and it’s still worth having kids. Another fucked up thing is that if my wife did cheat on me I’d probably stay with her. Partly because I think I’ve separated my ego from that (I think), partly because… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“Eh, I’ll admit it bothers me a bit that wives are fair game for a lot of PUAs. I feel like it’s taking an M60 and mowing down some dude standing in front of you with a knife.” Yep, I have to agree with YaReally on this one. “Trigger her Hypergamy for life and you have no problems. If you CAN’T keep your value up for life then……..” By the way, just so you know Walter White, the anti-hero in Breaking Bad, was taken out by an M60 that he himself set up MacGyver-esque and it shot him by accident… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
5 years ago

YaReally – “If anything you should be happy a PUA only wants to fuck her and not actually break you up and take her lol”

I like you, and your input is awesome. But that statement is lame as shit. ” be thankful I only want to violate your woman in ways she won’t with you and send her home.”

Just say “sorry not sorry, loser” and move on. Pretty much the same message.

teddj4g
teddj4g
5 years ago

Not that I disagree with you lol. Wives are far Kore to bnalme since it is THEIR oath to break. That doesn’t remove all responsibility from you. And, we both known you are breaking up families. No womanmmceats for long without ejecting,

Call it what it is. Home wrecking.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
5 years ago

@Andy Every chick I ever wanted to stick with always left with another (non-PUA) dude. Sometimes with one of my very close friends. You think a ring and a contract that gives her no penalties or incentives to stick with you is going to make a damn bit of difference? If a higher branch comes along a woman will swing to it. That is the hard and fast rule. You think other guys really care about your marriage? Hell no, they care about getting their dick wet. Damaging your relationship is only incidental to that purpose. Law 13: When asking… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
5 years ago

No pussy is worth my dignity and honor.

Sorry for typos. Damj small phone screen and lack of proof reading.

YaReally
5 years ago

@Andy “But either way, you’re not seeing your kids whether they exist or not.” I’m also not paying alimony and child support lol Because I’m not shackled with those things I have a decent chance of living long enough to eventually find a way to settle (whether it’s screening for a quality-enough girl, hitting a point where I don’t mind the risks, managing a solid pLTR relationship with kids, donating my swimmers, being told I have a terminal illness and spending all day every day banging random girls raw to create an army, etc lol). You could argue that I… Read more »

Liz
Liz
5 years ago

“By the way, just so you know Walter White, the anti-hero in Breaking Bad, was taken out by an M60 that he himself set up MacGyver-esque and it shot him by accident (….spoiler alert?). It’s easier to not shoot yourself accidentally than it is to worry about her being fair game.” At the end of things, that was one heck of an exit! I thought Jesse Pinkerman was more ‘alpha’ than Walter White. WW was insecure, and his insecurity caused him a great deal of trouble. (more spoilers) If he were more secure, he wouldn’t have felt the need to… Read more »

Liz
Liz
5 years ago

Best “manly” character on BB: Mike Ehrmantraut, hands down (IMO).
The Polo Loco guy Gus was a close second.

Liz
Liz
5 years ago

There were no good female characters. THey were all annoying as shit. With the exception of Jesse’s first girlfriend. She was edgy and interesting, but ultimately a mess.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
5 years ago

@tedd

Call it what it is. Home wrecking.

No, it’s getting your dick wet. The one homewrecking is the dumb cunt willing to violate her vows because of her tingles.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
5 years ago

@keyser

Seriously man, your attacks on YaReally just leave me feelin all

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rQWp0vaJ1Ms/URND9728hCI/AAAAAAAAMoE/GBkSuXm63Vs/s1600/Darth+Butthurt.jpg

Drink two glasses of Haterade and call me in the morning.

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

“There were no good female characters. THey were all annoying as shit. ”

I appreciated the show for its realism.

Fred Flange, PhD, Jim Jones Univ.
Fred Flange, PhD, Jim Jones Univ.
5 years ago

These recent game reports from the <25 club set from Msgr. YaReally tell me today's SMP is morphing before our eyes. They go with the fast-breaking observations* on the Death of Dating, the Rise of the Career Chode, the Triumph of Yes means Yes, the defenestration of the HeteroNormMacDonald-ative Patriamalarkey, Too Many Girls! Girls! Girls! (alternative title: Where The Boys Aren't) and the inability of teens and new collgrads to handle real tingles, since the Career Chode does not know how to approach, is told in "consent class" approaches are illegal unwanted contacts, and the sex-pozzy girls are supposed to… Read more »

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

Trigger her Hypergamy for life and you have no problems. Yeah. In THEORY. What if you accidentally kick her cat while she’s on her way out the door. Or the kids cried all fucking day and you ignored her when you got home because you had a bad day. Or you accidentally broke her favorite wine glass that day. Or she has PMS and when you tease her about wearing sweatpants when you get home and she takes it the wrong way… You don’t what RIDICULOUS reason she might be pissed off at you on any particular night. And if… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
5 years ago

@All I appreciate the comments directed at me recently as I’ve been kind of melting down. Clinical depression is a motherfucker and a confounding factor I’ve been dealing with lately; it became really apparent when I realized I’d stopped cooking for myself for so long that my fridge had been empty for a month. The time spent in the field the past few months has revealed massive cracks in my foundation that I’m going to have to take some time to work on. It’s frustrating coping with scars from such old wounds and flaws built so deep in to your… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@Seraph “Had that initial mindset, and then it gets eaten away, bit by bit, like acid dripping on metal.” That’s cause you were a bit outcome-dependant. That’s natural with a girl that you had some personal contact with before; she’s not just some random chick. It also comes down to a poverty of reference experiences. Like, I’m used to flirting/generating attraction at this point, but I tend to choke when it comes to more aggressive kino or escalation type techniques bc I have less experience going there. As with so many things in game, Open more sets. Your reply to… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

Well,

Regardless of anyone’s view on the morality of a guy fucking a married chick (which I have done, but yet don’t agree with)

The fact is she was open to advances, if not doing the advances herself.

Women are not innocent, frail, naive creatures that get seduced by the big bad PUA ya know.

That’s why I said earlier, if she’s out on the GNO’s…it’s game over already. (there are exceptions)

Sucks, but there it is. And yes, if the wife ever cheated it would be a big blow to my ego.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

Julien’s vid: Don’t get upset by shit tests. “Shit tests are not a bug, they’re a feature.” “Shit tests are how women grapple when they are thinking about sex. Shit tests test a man’s dominance and masculine dominance is what stimulates the sexual desire of women. So, if a woman hits you with a shit test, don’t get all nervous or angry or think that you have to prove anything or even engage her logically or directly. You don’t. And a shit test isn’t a bad thing. It’s a good thing that a woman hit you with a shit test.… Read more »

Fred Flange, PhD, Jim Jones Univ.
Fred Flange, PhD, Jim Jones Univ.
5 years ago

Oh yeah, speaking of your duty (huh?) to leave a “legacy”…

Legacy, my cunt hair, is what I say.

(And I will actually leave a legacy! Do as I say, not as I’ve done! Hey Fred what a cunting attitude!! I must say I find this highly amusing).

We all die alone, and there is no legacy. Hear the words of Frank Zappa from his last Today show interview, asked how he’d like to be remembered, his answer is: “I won’t be.” No one is. Except, as he says, for the rich guys who build themselves statues.

https://youtu.be/UDYzuwG-gOE

YaReally
5 years ago

@teddj4g “Call it what it is. Home wrecking.” A lot of girls end up going back to their man because they just needed a break. Or using the other guy on the side for the sex they aren’t getting at home. It’s not a black and white issue, and your painting it as such is just overreacting. A lot of guys with happy family lives have already been cheated on and just don’t know it because it’s not like the Hollywood stereotype where everything comes crashing down in flames and chaos the second she touches another dick. “That doesn’t remove… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@ ted, YaReally

Another fucked up thing is that if my wife did cheat on me I’d probably stay with her

Fuck that. Probably part of why she stays with me…and mateguards herself. Mrs. Gamer was corraled until she moved out after college and she is a “good girl” ™. I still get a lot of shit tests. I’m working on minimizing my inner drama queen, lol.

You have to view a relatonship shit test as just a big joke.

teddj4g
teddj4g
5 years ago

I never said women were innocent, in fact I tried to say married women are more responsible.(but can’t type and walk at the same time…) But, if I left my car running on the curb and you took it? Still grand theft auto no matter how you slice it. If a married chic takes off her ring and you don’t know? All on her. But the ring, like my car keys, shows ownership. After that’s known its just stealing. Yeah, that is my world view. And when that world view was popular, there was less drama. Far as it goes,… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
5 years ago

Lol you guys try to play both ends to the middle.

Either women have agency, or they don’t.

We talk a lot about how men must guide them, but then overlook dudes scamming married women ARE guiding them.

So, if you believe women have less real agency than men, and you use that to “guide” them to your cock despite it being against their best interests? Doesn’t paint a pretty picture of you IMO.

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

“I never said women were innocent, in fact I tried to say married women are more responsible.(but can’t type and walk at the same time…) But, if I left my car running on the curb and you took it? Still grand theft auto no matter how you slice it.” A better analogy would be that your car drove itself to the bar and asked some dude to hop in for a ride. The easiest sex I’ve ever got was with married chicks. Seriously. Right? No. Stealing and wrong? Yes. My wife doesn’t do the whole GNO thing. If she ever… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
5 years ago

CaveClown – unless the laws change with self driving cars, still theft. know why? Cars don’t have agency,

YaReally
5 years ago

@teddj4g “But the ring, like my car keys, shows ownership. After that’s known its just stealing.” Only to you. To the rest of the world, your car is a public bus and you leaving your jacket on the seat doesn’t mean no one else will take it for a ride. You want other people to respect your belief system and vows, but like, why would you expect them to? They’re yours, not the other guy’s. Your wife will tell me that you’re a neglectful abusive asshole who can’t get it up in bed and that I’m basically SAVING her by… Read more »

YaReally
5 years ago

@teddj4g

“unless the laws change with self driving cars, still theft.”

I didn’t realize it was illegal to fuck a married chick lol They should really put that in bold print somewhere on wedding rings.

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

“Agreed. So you probably shouldn’t make a legal and lifetime commitment to her on the basis that you’ll never accidentally kick her cat or break her favorite wine glass.”

Also Agreed. Obviously I wouldn’t do that now. My point is that our theoretical no qualms wife fucking PUA has to admit that the monogamous husband of that wife you’re fucking is working from a disadvantaged platform. Hence Immoral. IMO.

Married monogamous @yareally < new mysterious GNO @yaReally

agent p
agent p
5 years ago

Well private cars can now all do Uber right which is kind of “occasionally public use”. Do I see a parallel here?

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

“CaveClown – unless the laws change with self driving cars, still theft. know why? Cars don’t have agency,” Lol on the car analogy. I gave your car agency by having it drive itself to the bar and soliciting some dude. For what it is worth…I think it is wrong to fuck a married chick and I think that yareally, you has some goofy rationalizations for doing so. “Your wife will tell me that you’re a neglectful abusive asshole who can’t get it up in bed and that I’m basically SAVING her by banging her. She won’t have to leave you… Read more »

redlight
redlight
5 years ago

r/TheRedPill got rid of this nonsense https://m.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2qdc08/psa_im_adding_broknighting_to_my_list_of_bannable/ about the ban: If a married woman has no moral compunction about stepping out on her husband, then the man she sleeps with is not burdened with moral compunction either. He is not obligated to tell a man that his wife is a cheating whore. He is not obligated by some “bro-code” to turn down a woman’s advances because some other fucking idiot was dumb enough to put a $10k ring on her finger. To blast it into the thick fucking skulls of some of the newbs around here, sexual strategy is amoral.… Read more »

YaReally
5 years ago

@Andy “the monogamous husband of that wife you’re fucking is working from a disadvantaged platform. Hence Immoral.” If Michael Jordan’s opposing team all chop off their legs during a game, it’s not immoral of him to walk past them and shoot a basket lol He could just forfeit the game and walk away but he’s under no obligation to, he didn’t chop their legs off. “you has some goofy rationalizations for doing so.” You wouldn’t think they were goofy if you heard them straight from the mouths of the girls participating lol *I* didn’t come up with these rationalizations, they’re… Read more »

Liz
Liz
5 years ago

“I appreciated the show for its realism.”

But in real life, you can set the dial to ‘ignore’.
This is entertainment…filter out the annoying stuff and you might lose the whole plot line! 🙂

teddj4g
teddj4g
5 years ago

YaReally – “I didn’t realize it was illegal to fuck a married chick lol They should really put that in bold print somewhere on wedding rings.” Before no fault divorce it was kinda illegal. But let’s be frank: legalities aside, no man alive in the west doesn’t understand banging a married woman is screwing the other guy over. What amazes me is: I don’t like people and I’d never screw another mans wife. Seems like people who enjoy talking to everyone gives less of a shit about those individuals than I do. Plus, as much as I agree with you,… Read more »

YaReally
5 years ago

On top of it maybe she WOULD be happier with me. I doubt it (though for the night or our fuckbuddy relationship when she’s with me she’s definitely happier lol), but like, who knows maybe it IS in her best interest to bail on you for me. I mean, she’s clearly not happy/satisfied with YOU because if she was she wouldn’t be up on me at the bar lol If I tell her flat out up front that I don’t want a relationship with her or to break up her marriage or to ever meet her kids or to even… Read more »

YaReally
5 years ago

@teddj4g “But let’s be frank: legalities aside, no man alive in the west doesn’t understand banging a married woman is screwing the other guy over. What amazes me is: I don’t like people and I’d never screw another mans wife. Seems like people who enjoy talking to everyone gives less of a shit about those individuals than I do.” And by “be frank” you mean “enter my moral code where I can make a bunch of judgements about other peoples’ behavior because they should all have the same values that I have” lol You keep going back to this “it’s… Read more »

Scray
Scray
5 years ago

‘What you call ‘game’, and what I would call social skills, can make a small contribution to your attractiveness, but it is completely dwarfed by other more important factors. If you’re below average physical attractiveness, unless you can compensate with wealth then you will have an uphill battle to attract anyone decent.’ I used to think this way. But if you’re a loser, you have nothing to lose by trying it. When I first started, I tried everything. I had no idea what would work and what wouldn’t. I hit the gym, started dieting, started pursuing solid interests, and I… Read more »

YaReally
5 years ago

@Scray
“So would I attribute all the amazing things that have happened for me to those external factors that I developed or to the confidence and the frame I have developed?

Confidence and frame, hands down.

The external stuff just reinforces those things. If I could somehow act EXACTLY the same while being a fat, ignorant slob….I know I’d be just as effective.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KALJy9fw2Q

<3

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

Well ok then,

Getting cheated on destroys my ego because of competition anxiety, lack of frame control, mpo difficulties, and self confidence issues.

So if you do that to me, by fucking my wife, then you are an asshole.

Is that about it?

lol

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

“If Michael Jordan’s opposing team all chop off their legs during a game, it’s not immoral of him to walk past them and shoot a basket lol” Yeah, but the reality is that you’re dunking on those guys with full knowledge that they were tricked into cutting off their own legs. But they still manage keep her happy 95% of the time by busting their asses even with their fucking legs cut off, but she goes to have a GNO and poor husband spilled coffee on her favorite pajamas that morning and laughed about how upset she was… And Mr.… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

“I’ve seen guys shorter than even me (and I’m a shade under 5’6) intimidate the fuck out of taller people because they just have this way of talking, walking, and acting. They “believe the lie” that they could kick everyone’s ass, and everyone else believes it too.”

Shorter than I and getting laid? My new hero!

redlight
redlight
5 years ago

if you ever fucked a married woman you would know if they didn’t cheat with you they would be cheating with someone else. Hypergamy doesn’t care.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@ YaReally

talk shit about the guy etc etc to get dick when a better branch comes along.

They will generally do this with subcomms–damn their husbands with faint praise, like, “My husband is an excellent cook. He’s cooking tonight [while I’m out dancing with other men.” or “He likes to watch the history and science channels.” They will say, “My husband trusts me.”

YaReally
5 years ago

@CaveClown “Getting cheated on destroys my ego because of competition anxiety, lack of frame control, mpo difficulties, and self confidence issues.” ahhhh, there it is finally. 🙂 “So if you do that to me, by fucking my wife, then you are an asshole.” Is that me doing that to you, or is that you doing that to yourself? Is it my fault you have those insecurities, or is it your fault for not working on them, especially before you marry a girl and sign a legal document that basically says “I will have a strong frame and stay confident and… Read more »

Scray
Scray
5 years ago

“Shorter than I and getting laid? My new hero!” This last year I’ve done shit that I thought was impossible for me to do. Halloween was insane. I’ve got a group of over 100 people I connect now at clubs….it’s ridiculous (if you’re interested in getting something like this going, I can give deets)…like fishing with dynamite. It brings a ton of value to me and everyone in the group. There’s this scene in the Martian that I think a lot of the STEM guys should relate to: “You just do the math and solve the problem. And then onto… Read more »

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

“Honestly, I think if a PUA can Game your wife into cheating on you he’s doing you a favor by demonstrating the power that Hypergamy holds over her. In my estimate you’re then free to justifiably file for divorce and move on while being wiser.” Yeah assuming you find out about it… And again. I’m not 100% sold that hypergamy is the one and only factor. Let’s admit… Okay, I’m talking to the master here, but is there not a new and exciting man factor to this? Also there’s no “my husband laughed at my hair due this morning, so… Read more »

Scray
Scray
5 years ago

@Yareally

lol
Ya man, you do a lot of good in the world.

YaReally
5 years ago

@Scray “I’ve got a group of over 100 people I connect now at clubs” Jesus kid, well done lol Knew you had potential. And social circle shit is perfect for a short dude (it goes back to demonstrating high-value). You’re one of the few short dudes who actually applied optimal game. Bravo, dude. Warms my heart when guys actually go out and apply this shit for real long-term and push through the bullshit nights. “You just do the math and solve the problem. And then onto the next problem and solve that problem. And solve the next problem too. And… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
5 years ago

All the hand-wringing I’m seeing from the married guys here is a big part of why I’m not married. A part of me (even pre-Red Pill) always grasped what you’re all having to come to grips with right now: I can’t hold on to her against every other dude she’ll ever meet. You didn’t have enough good friends run off with your girlfriend before you got married. You didn’t learn that you can’t remain a woman’s highest priority without being 10 times the man you were (maybe even are now), and until you know that about yourself deep down in… Read more »

YaReally
5 years ago

Here’s a good clip of Hypergamy live in-field at the start of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9Lv84OX5jE The student has the girl attracted enough to extract her and walk out the exit with him, which is a solid amount of compliance. But then he doesn’t see the window of opportunity that she WANTS TO FUCK that night, and when he won’t listen to Julien and keeps trying for the gay number close that will be wood and isn’t what the girl wants, he steps in and shows the student how it’s done and she IMMEDIATELY switches to the new more interesting exciting… Read more »

YaReally
5 years ago

@Sun Wukong Everything you just said lol “I can’t hold on to her against every other dude she’ll ever meet.” This is what guys have to understand. All YOU can do as a man is understand what emotions and shit she needs and provide them, while handling your own shit and staying as high-value as possible, to the point where even YOU don’t view other men as competition (because what you feel, she feels, she pings off you for how she should feel, if you view other men as a threat to you she’ll assume you know something she doesn’t… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@Sun Wu I’ve probably never had full-blown clinical depression, but how my brain tends to fail is in that direction. So I’ve trained myself to look for ‘tells’ that I’m acting depressed (bc you’ll rationalize that your feelings are normal reactions to the world around you in the moment). For me, if there’s more than 2-3 outfits on the floor of the bedroom, I’m like “Initiate antidepressive sequence!” and force myself to go for a run in the woods then take vit D and fish oil and figure out a way to socialize with someone (just things I’ve found help… Read more »

YaReally
5 years ago

@Sun Wukong
No idea if this’ll help you ’cause I can’t relate to legit depression but like, here’s a thread for guys who are depressed while taking in the red pill, there might be some useful reading for you in there:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2az4oe/

I have a buddy with massive depression and he does the running, vitamin D, fish oil, regular sleep, etc stuff but like I have no idea how any of that works lol

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@Rollo: “There’s a want to call foul on the guy who can/would do this, and I get that . . .” As do I, if there is an already established trust bond with the guy. Absent that, I have never understood jealous men who beat up the other guy. Makes no damned sense. He isn’t the one who violated trust. @Tedd: “How would that be different than any pedophile that takes advantage of naive kids?” Take a deep breath or three, dispense with the feelz, and you really ought to be able to work that one out yourself. Hint: The… Read more »

Dutchman
Dutchman
5 years ago

LOL I think everyone is just getting mad at YaReally because he’s putting stuff in personal terms (you, me, your wife, etc). The core message is still the same.

lh
lh
5 years ago

I guess most girls have some guy thinking she is or should be his. Some are married others not. Where she came from tells you something about her. But to care for the other guys heart? Good luck with that.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@ kfg

I have never understood jealous men who beat up the other guy. Makes no damned sense. He isn’t the one who violated trust.

But he took advantage of the innocent cupcake, dontchaknow?

Striver
Striver
5 years ago

I consider men to be stronger than women. In FI world women have too much power. But men make all of the rules, all of society, all inventions by me. Men have to make themselves, that is why they do this. Women do not. So women can be gamed, be made to feel tingles. They are weak and stupid. Congrats on cracking the code, PUA. I don’t care except for married chicks. I have read too many stories of chicks cheating with absolute losers to believe they are choosing the superior guy. They are feelz addicts just looking for a… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
5 years ago

@Striver

We didn’t ruin marriage. We didn’t make it this way. We’re just pointing out the rules as they stand right now. Did I say I like them or hate them? No. I just acknowledge them as they are. That’s not pedestalization. It’s simply an acknowledgement of reality and understanding what I must do to optimize my chances to achieve my goals.

You guys wanna keep broknighting, go for it. You’re missing the point and hurting only yourselves. As for me, I’ve said about all I can on the subject sooooo…

Seraph
Seraph
5 years ago

@Forge, Thanks for the honesty. I WAS going for laid back (my old SOP was to over engage with verbiage), and not being eager or too much energy because eagerness never seemed to get me anywhere but the outcome dependence you mentioned. This is again a reason why this stuff is frustrating. *I* thought the message was too engaging, laying out how I was available for the next couple of months and all that for example. And, yes, after sending it, I realized it was still longer than hers, and I had made the deliberate attempt to cull it down.… Read more »

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
5 years ago
Reply to  Seraph

@Ted “And I don’t hate people at all. I treat them the way women treat betas: invisible until they force me to acknowledge them.” Man that’s harsh to have to go back and think about. @Caveclown “Lets go conquer or kill something for fucks sake.” Your on to something. @Yareally “What should bother you is that PUAs are fair game for a lot of wives.” That happen to me and it messed me up in a blue pill phase. “This. Women are like dogs…they’re a great pet if you can train them properly and know how to handle them. But… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@Rugby: “When did it come about you reckon?”

I haven’t done any hard research on it, but it seems to be one of those ideas, like much of our current culture, that came to form in the Roaring 20s, but really took root in the decade or two after WWII.

It first required the idea that “agency” had any application to the young at all.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@Seraph “I WAS going for laid back (my old SOP was to over engage with verbiage), and not being eager or too much energy because eagerness never seemed to get me anywhere but the outcome dependence you mentioned.” Your issue isn’t over or under engagement. Nor the length of the message. The issue is that you took a middle road, one that possesses neither an alluring brevity nor a vividly-expressed personality. And more specifically, the issue is that you fell into her frame. She was enthusiastic, warm, and emotive, and you followed suit. You let her set the tone. You… Read more »

hoellenhund2
5 years ago

The only thing sadder than that is dying alone knowing you don’t have any kids out there continuing your legacy. Like wtf did your Dad or your Grandfather or your Grandfather’s grandfather waste all that time busting their asses working, raising kids, dealing with bored wives if you don’t have them yourself?

In other words, they imposed misery on themselves because they expected me to do the same, and they expected that because they thought it’ll make them feel better about imposing misery on themselves.

hoellenhund2
5 years ago

DD…yes women have power but it is not easy for them either. The 20s year olds on my on are working 50 to 60 hours a week on $45 000 a year in cities like NY. On top of this they have to look good, stay slim, eat healthy, shave on top of laundry, grocery shopping etc. Then they have to deal with other women being jealous and nasty and stabbing them in the back as well as competition with them for the best males in a limited fertile time window and trying to avoid losers awkwardly hitting on them.… Read more »

The Lone Planet
The Lone Planet
5 years ago

Abandon all hope.

We’re all screwed.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” . . . they imposed misery on themselves because they expected me to do the same, and they expected that because they thought it’ll make them feel better about imposing misery on themselves.”

I am not responsible for validating your choices.

kobayashii1681
5 years ago

@Striver: “This board pedestalizes woman’s hypergamy. That’s just another pedestal.” How so? IMO, I think what we try and do here is make fellow men acutely aware that it exists, and completely pervades all areas of a woman’s life, and hence those of men who want to fuck and/or raise families with them. As for “Alpha culpability” I hear what your saying, I think though that it’s more of hypergamy is what it is, so don’t be ‘caught slipping’. I think as men, to some extant, because we’re the real romantics, want a situation where we don’t have to “look… Read more »

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
5 years ago
Reply to  kobayashii1681

@kobayashii1681
“But the fact is because it their firmware we can only adapt in such a way as to be total men who know that women will be women, and if you even forget that for a minute, there has to be consequences eventually.”

You keep moving on without thinking that’s ever going away.

kobayashii1681
5 years ago

@Rugby11ljh: Exactly…

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