A comment from Truman gets us started today:
Rollo, it would be great if you could provide some evidence for female solipsism beyond a few examples. From my own experience I could name a few solipsistic women, but I could do the same for men as well, and I’m far from convinced that the trait is universal in women, or even that it’s more prevalent in women than in men.
I will admit that the main reason I split this post into two was because I anticipated this example-seeking. And to their credit my more vocal female commenters didn’t disappoint me with (sometimes over the top) illustrations. If you haven’t had enough of the hamster spinning goodness yet feel free to sift through the comment thread from part one.
However, to begin to work out Truman’s request Voverk from the TRP forum had this example:
One of the most eye opening of the solipsistic world of females was when a plate of mine was giving me directions on where to pick her up. It went something like this:
Her: “When you come to that traffic light, turn over to me.”
Me: “What do you mean?”
Her: “Just turn here towards me.”
Me: “How the hell am I supposed to know which way is that? Left or right?”
Her: “I don’t know. Just turn my way”
She eventually gave directions, but it amazed me how hard it is for a woman to put herself in someone else’s shoes, even if she wants to.
Women’s mental point of origin (solipsism) presumes the entire world outside of her agrees with her imperative and mutually shares the importance and priorities of it.
Just like The Red Pill Lens, it takes a sensitivity to it, but you will begin to notice instances of that solipsism all around you if you pay attention. An equalists, feminine-primary upbringing and acculturation predisposes men to accept the manifestations of this solipsism as ‘normal’, so we blow it off or nod in agreement without really considering it. Most plugged-in Blue Pill men simply view this as a standard operating condition for women to such a degree that this solipsistic nature is pushed to the peripheries of their awareness.
It’s just how women are and women are more than happy to have men accept their solipsism as intrinsic to their nature. It’s excusable in the same sense that women hold a “woman’s prerogative” – she always reserves the right to change her mind. When your default is to accept this social imperative any greater inconsistencies fall into line behind it.
We are conditioned to accept that what best benefits women’s sexual strategy is necessarily what benefits men. On both a social and personal level women’s solipsistic importance presumes, by default, that what best serves themselves automatically best serves men – even when they refuse to acknowledge it. Remember, nothing outside the female existential imperative has any more significance than an individual women will allow it. So, perceptually to women, if a man suits a purpose in her self-primary requirements he must also mutually share in that awareness of his purpose. Thus, she maintains that his imperatives are the same as her own.
Societal Reinforcement
Social reinforcement of women’s solipsistic nature is a self-perpetuating cycle. A feminine-primary social order reflects in itself, and then sustains, female solipsism. For most Red Pill aware men this cycle is apparent in women’s overblown self-entitlements, but there’s far more to it than this.
When men accept and reinforce this socially, we feed and confirm women’s solipsistic natures. When men are steeped in a Blue Pill acceptance of what they believe should be men’s condition, and defend (or ’empower’) women’s solipsistic behaviors or manifestations of it, thats when the cycle of affirmation of this solipsism comes full circle.
Recently I called commenter InsanityBytes to the carpet about her first priority being to defend the Sisterhood when Dalrock published a post critical of a woman’s abortions and another who’d joined Ashley Madison then rationalized it away because she was in a loveless marriage with a man who was in his last days.
This is another instance of solipsism; that a woman’s first directive is to defend her sex’s imperatives even above considerations of religious conviction, marriage vows or espoused personal ideology. That’s the depth and breadth of feminine solipsism, and again, this reinforces a cycle of affirming it in women.
Communication
One of the easiest ways to identify women’s solipsistic nature is manifested in their communication style, and as fate would have it I received a fresh comment from a new female commenter on my interview with Niko Choski. I wont bore you with the histrionics of most of it, but her ending comments serve a purpose here:
I’m not lonely, I enjoy solitude…
I am a whole person who needs no other for my own completion.No man, no woman. The qualities identified by different cultures as male and female…are all mine.
Your obsession with division….iis absurd.
I’ve dug into women’s communication styles on more occasions than I can account on this blog, and with regard to how women defer to their solipsistic nature there is no better way to identify it than in the priorities they give to communicating with men and other women.
From Duplicity:
It’s endlessly entertaining (and predictable) to see how often women’s (and feminized men’s) default response to anything they disagree with in regards to gender dynamics is met with a personalization to the contrary. It’s always the “not-in-my-case” story about how their personal anecdotal, exceptional experience categorically proves a universal opposite. By order of degrees, women have a natural tendency for solipsism – any dynamic is interpreted in terms of how it applies to themselves first, and then the greater whole of humanity.
Men tend to draw upon the larger, rational, more empirical meta-observations whether they agree or not, but a woman will almost universally rely upon her isolated personal experience and cling to it as gospel. If it’s true for her, it’s true for everyone, and experience and data that contradict her self-estimations? Those have no bearing because ‘she’s’ not like that.
This personalization is the first order of any argument proffered by women just coming into an awareness of long standing conversations and discussion in the manosphere. It is so predictable it’s now cliché, and each woman’s first retort invariably responds with personalized anecdotes they think trumps any objective, observable evidence to the contrary.
It might be entertaining for Red Pill men to count the instances of personalization in a woman’s rebuttal comment, but it’s not about how many “I”s or “me”s a woman brings to any counterargument – it’s that her first inclination for a counterargument is to use her personal experience and expect it to be accepted as a valid, universal truth by whomever she is presenting it to.
I’s, Me’s and Myself’s are simply the vehicle and manifestation of women’s first directive – a solipsistic mental point of origin; any challenge to that self-importance is invalidated by her personal self-primacy. This mental origin is so automatic and ingrained to such a limbic degree that consideration of it is never an afterthought for her.
This is common to feminine communication preferences (and men who’ve been conditioned to opt into a feminine-primary communication mode). Women focus primarily on the context of the communication (how it makes them feel while communicating), while men focus primarily on the content (the importance of the information being communicated). This isn’t to exclude men from using personal experiences to help illustrate a point, but the intent comes from a different motive. That motive is an attempt to better understand the content and information of that issue, not an exercise in self-affirmation that feminine solipsism requires to preserve a woman’s ego-investments (usually her solipsistic mental point of origin).
The most visible manifestation of women’s rudimentary solipsism is the priority with which they expect their personal, existential, experience to be considered the most valid, legitimate and universal truth apparent in any debate.
Middle of the Story Syndrome
One thing I’ve been frustrated with by virtually every woman I’ve ever known in my life is their tendency to begin a conversation in the middle of a story; all the while expecting men to understand every nuance and be familiar with minute ‘feely’ detail that made up the backstory that’s never forthcoming.
I swear, every woman I’ve known has done this with me at some time. The presumption is that their story is of such importance that bothering with any pretext, or outlining and describing the events and information that led up to that mid-way vitally important element that made them feel a certain way is all that should matter to a listener.
Women have an uncanny way of accepting this when they relate stories among themselves; gleaning incidental details of the backstory as the teller goes on.
There’s an ironic feminine-operative social convention that complains that “men aren’t good listeners” or “men don’t listen” to what women are telling them. This convention is really another manifestation of a solipsistic mindset with regard to communication.
It isn’t that men don’t listen, it’s that our communication styles focus on content information, not the contextual ‘feel’ of what’s being communicated by women. Women, above all else, hate to repeat themselves. Not because of the inconvenience, but because men ‘not listening’ and requiring a repetition of that information conflicts with her own self-primary solipsism.
The want for a ‘good listener’ is really the want for a man who affirms her self-priority by not needing to be told something that confirms that priority more than once. And this confirmation should never require explanation or and understanding of the backstory of events that made it feel important to her.
Women have an inherent pretext in communication that always begins with themselves. In fact, most are so sure of their solipsistic, personal truth that glaring objectivity never enters their minds; at least not initially. As I mentioned in the first installment, women are entirely capable of applying reason, rationality and pragmatism as well as men, it’s just that this isn’t their first mental order when confronted with a need for it. Just as a girl can be taught to throw an object as well as it comes naturally to a boy, a reasoned transcendence above her solipsism, one that considers the individuated existences of others’ experiences takes a learned effort.
Ladies First
Luxocrat had a great illustration as well:
I asked my ex that last month, if her kids came first or if I did. She paused and said “I really don’t know. That’s a hard one.” I replied “Then it’s your kids.” I recall my ex-wife reading one of those save your marriage books right after I made it clear I was leaving. She read me a line in it and said she sees how she was wrong. The line went something like this: “If you want to have a strong marriage, you need to understand your husband comes first, even before your children. They must be taught by you, their mother, that he is head of the household and respect must be given. The only way they’ll see that is by your demostrating by your actions that this is so.”
I still left though.
The irony in this instance is that for all of the humble deference this seemingly good advice promotes, it still presumes a woman is already the primary source of authority who ‘allows’ her husband to be “the man”. I’ve heard similar advice espoused by evangelical pastors making Pollyanna attempts at ‘granting headship’ to husbands and fathers from their reluctant wives. The inherent flaw is that these men already begin from a perspective that women are in a position of unquestioned primacy and require their permission to be ‘men’.
In a way they are unwittingly acknowledging women’s solipsism (and perpetuating the cycle) as a default source of authority. That a woman would need to be taught to defer authority to her husband belies two things; first, her solipsistic mental point of origin and second, that her man isn’t a man who inspires that deference.
It’s easy to see how a Beta man wouldn’t be someone that would naturally prompt a woman to go against her natural solipsism, but in Luxocrats position (I presume Alpha since he walked) there is a conflict women have to confront in themselves.
In a social order that reinforces the entitlements presumed by women’s solipsism there develops an internal conflict between the need for an optimized Hypergamy and the ego-investments a woman’s solipsism demands to preserve it. As a woman progresses towards the Wall and a lessened capacity to optimize both sides (AF/BB) of Hypergamy this conflict comes to a head. The necessities of long term provisioning war with the self-importance of solipsism at the risk of her losing out on preserving both (and having a guy like Luxocrat simply walk away from her).
Insanity,
“Men do not respect us and other women secretly hate us. The only way we have to earn respect is through men who value us.”
Men do not respect ME and other women secretly hate ME. The only way I have to earn respect is through men who value ME. Poor Mr. Bytes, he was my plan B.
Fixed it.
“Pedestalization is actually disrespect. It is something more akin to goddess worship. It is more like how men would admire each other. It creates too much of an emotional burden for women. We can never hope to live up to those expectations, to fulfill those needs.” So then shitting on women is respect? I’m confused…or no not really, I know there is no winning, no peace, no detante with a woman like Insanity. She begs compassion for baby killers, excuses the worst excesses of hypegamy, and claims that some men, who would never offer a pedestal, would, or should, be… Read more »
Because Nice Guys really aren’t nice and only want to get into a girl’s pants:
http://therationalmale.com/2012/09/04/play-nice/
http://therationalmale.com/2013/01/09/nice-like-me/
http://therationalmale.com/2014/05/18/the-real-nice/
@insanitybytes22 Actually Tomassi, the men around here did those things because they respected themselves as men, because being gentleman was a way of setting themselves apart from others, it was a way of displaying their honor and integrity, acknowledging a sense of responsibility towards those smaller and weaker than them. It was never really about women at all, although we certainly benefited. Zero understanding of men. Zero. Your grasp of things male could not be more confused. You are literally just projecting your own understanding of the world, from a female perspective, onto everything you’re trying to understand (if you’re… Read more »
Are there any Red Pill events/meetings on the East Coast?
@ longgone In my urban flyover locale, country dancing has several venues; the largest is a warehouse with a dance floor the size of a basketball court, several bars, a mechanical bull, lots of tables, and several pool tables. It will draw 1000 people on a Sat. night. Two others will draw about 300 and 100 each. There’s a venue with lots of older top (for my area) country dancers as well which draws a few dozen (all dancers). Salsa will draw 300 at each of two venues. Ballroom will draw maybe 150 over a weekend. Swing will draw about… Read more »
rugby,
Was working up to swing dancing, when I got married and that got put on indefinite hold. In fact I was (barely) able to clog at one time, which uses swing moves, but the ankles aren’t loose enough for it now. “West coast” style? I’ll look it up.
“because being gentleman was a way of setting themselves apart from others, it was a way of displaying their honor and integrity, acknowledging a sense of responsibility towards those smaller and weaker than them. It was never really about women at all, although we certainly benefited.” Holly shit. You are such a manipulative woman. I’m NOT and would never be a “gentleman” and I do not want to have integrity according to your definition. Listen to her using the usual manipulative words, this weak little woman has a Mr. Hyde in her, what next, you want us to feel bad… Read more »
The most obvious proof of individual and mass female solipsism Is their openly expressed expectation that they can have babies at will, unilaterally, with no resources to pay for it and in order to make that happen, others will be forced to pay up.
“because being gentleman was a way of setting themselves apart from others, it was a way of displaying their honor and integrity, acknowledging a sense of responsibility towards those smaller and weaker than them. It was never really about women at all, although we certainly benefited.”
Hahah! What bullshit! It was ENTIRELY about women.
Because, that’s called “Chivalry”, which is an artifact of Western Christian Patriarchy, which of course, feminists and equalists say they reject.
“Because Nice Guys really aren’t nice and only want to get into a girl’s pants:..” No, Tomassi. It’s usually because we feel judged by them. Also, we often want someone more dominant than we are. What kind of protection does a nice guy provide? Listen to fleezer here, “I have a hard time understanding the burden of male performance because everything I’ve seen points to unaccomplished and unrespectable men doing nothing and getting all..” I laughed. That’s it precisely, “unaccomplished and unrespectable men doing nothing..” very masculine and far more appealing then those working a bit too hard to impress… Read more »
“Because, that’s called ‘Chivalry’, which is an artifact of Western Christian Patriarchy, which of course, feminists and equalists say they reject.”
I always like to ask ’em if they want to be treated as women or be treated as equals. Typical response: “what do you mean?” Too which I say “If your my equal then you can put the down seat.”
I find social convention of expecting men to both raise and lower the seat to encapsulate all the lies about equality.
“It’s usually because we feel judged by them.”
Yes, the inferiors hate the judgement of their superiors.
“Ladies, stop complaining about the sheep when you’re looking for a wolf.” Also Tomassi, this was rather amusing. Good point. Women today do not understand that and if we even have an inkling that we may desire a wolf, the world will shame us right out of it. We complain about nice guys because it is not nice guys we want at all, but we aren’t allowed to actually say that. I’m not even sure we’re allowed to think it. However, what is “nice”? My husband is quite nice and kind, but if I described him that way would you… Read more »
Insanity,
“Also, we often want someone more dominant than we are(I hope Mr bytes is not lurking here). What kind of protection does a nice guy provide?”
Insanity’s AF/BB? And DOMINANCE ?
Keep going Insanity ,you’re almost there, don’t stop.
“We complain about nice guys because it is not nice guys we want at all, but we aren’t allowed to actually say that. I’m not even sure we’re allowed to think it.”
Women are sincere. Women are not honest. See above.
But men are scary right? No? Whatever, there’s no good faith dealing with someone for whom honesty is fungible and defined by solipsism.
“Where are our masculine pronouns that describe what is good in a man?? I don’t know, we’ve lost them.”
They weren’t lost, they were destroyed by feminists, ‘Fahrenheit 451’-style.
Insanity is admitting she doesn’t like nice guys, and she wants dominant men, I think insanity is in ovulation today.
And they say men can’t tell.
@Jeremy
You know who wrote the song “Respect”, that Aretha Franklin sang?
Otis Redding
I shit you not.
Now listen to it again, only this time, with the king of soul, who had women at his fingertips, singing it.
@ IB “Now see, that reads as some basic respect for women to me, not disrespect at all. Men who hang out with dancers and club girls exhibit a fondness for women. Those are the kind of men I’ve always enjoyed being around, had the best conversations with.” With this we can see how deeply rooted IBs solipsism is in the sexual realm and how manipulation is the operative condition of that solipsism. “Men who hang out with dancers and club girls exhibit a fondness for women.” Stated in rational honest terms this would be written “Men who hang out… Read more »
Where are our masculine pronouns that describe what is good in a man?? I don’t know, we’ve lost them.
Adjectives?
Yeah, girls mostly use the Beta adjectives to describe Alpha guys. Shouldn’t you know that? It’s part of the script!
@The Burninator
You’ve exposed me. I am classically trained in music theory but I have jack-shit in terms of mental music library in my head, call it a consequence of a bizarre childhood. Strangely, that song coming from a black man makes all the difference in the world.
Where are our masculine pronouns that describe what is good in a man?? I don’t know, we’ve lost them.
Try this. “He makes me feel” *insert adjective here*
Much easier to describe now! Solipsism.
Insanity, “What kind of protection does a nice guy provide?”
Isn’t that an oxymoron?
It should be :
What kind of “tingles” does a nice guy provide.
Where are our masculine pronouns that describe what is good in a man?? I don’t know, we’ve lost them.
Sent to the bin along with the masculine adjectives.
Courageous, intrepid, bold, adventurous, strong, brave, stalwart, invincible, and all those other names of British warships.
Pugilistic, powerful, fearless…
I think insanity is in ovulation today.
And they say men can’t tell.
Nah, it’s her hormone replacement therapy kicking in, or else her daughter has pwned her acct.
Given time, IB only makes my points for me: http://therationalmale.com/2012/10/02/up-the-alpha/ Up the Alpha I’ve written this before, but it bears repeating: for men wanting to change their lives and relationships, working up from Beta to Alpha is a far tougher road to hoe that tempering Alpha dominance with a personalized touch of Beta. As bad as Hugo Schwyzer is in his abject feminization, have a read of a few of the female commenters in this article. How many of the simpering, socially conditioned, Betatized men these women seeth about would make for believable Alphas once they had a red pill… Read more »
@keyser Soze
IB is so stupid she doesn’t realize that most police officers and soldiers are “nice guys”. What kind of protection do they provide? Well, there was this one time when the developed world was attacked… I heard about it in history class…
This reminds me of when I ran a company that published women’s hair magazines. The target readership was late teens/early 20s trailer park types. Our female designers just COULD NOT get the covers right. Ever. They were incapable of thinking outside their own personal tastes. “Susan, your cover design…” “Do you like the muted pastel theme?” “Yeah, but it’s not right for our market” “But everyone I showed it to loved it!” “It’s beautiful, but it’s not what our readership wants. We need simple, bright colors with bold lettering. Like the last issue.” “But that’s kind of tacky!” “Maybe it… Read more »
Jeremy – “What kind of protection do they provide?” Ummm…yeah, and that’s the problem for Insanity. Honorable men won’t protect women from the consequences of their actions, and protect them from the reasonable judgements of others. Functioning, civilized, socially positive military and police organizations are excellent at physical security, insofar as policy allows, but awful at providing social security of the type women crave, and demand from such men. An honorable man won’t defend the honor of a dishonorable woman. Nor will such a man refrain from enforcing laws or seeking justice against dishonorable men who generate tingles. So the… Read more »
scribblerg
I remember another bit of research (I know I’m lazy for not sharing the cite sorry, no time before i’m out for a while) that showed how strong female ingroup preferences are versus males.
Maybe it was this? The research is skimpy but shows women prefer other women over men by a ratio of 4:1. Can’t imagine why more research into this topic hasn’t been done. Must be due to a shortage of money, yeah, that’s gotta be it.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15491274
@BP
IB confuses so many terms in her posts it strikes as willful ignorance. “protection” when she means “tingles” ? That’s about as horribly wrong as you could get. She’s either menopausal and frankly isn’t thinking straight, or she’s young and so solipsistic she is truly incapable of considering other viewpoints.. to the point of mental illness.
She should be studied and pitied.
Insanity,
“My husband is quite nice and kind, but if I described him that way would you be able to spot him on the street? Heck no, “nice” is totally inaccurate. He’s a man, more bold and blustery than “nice.”
Well,,,I don’t know ,, what to you mean ?
You sound like you’re describing your grandson ?
There is no oooooh, oooooh ?
I feel there is no tingles in the details?
@Burninator
thanks for posting about Otis:
Hey little girl, you’re sweeter than honey
And I am about to give you all my money
But all I want you to do
Just give it, give it
Respect when I come home
@lh “What social convention in particular where you referring to?”
There is a social convention women deserve respect for being women and some asked for an equivalent for men.
“So the nice guys in uniform are cursed with having jobs and personal codes that neither protect women (socially), nor protect the men women want to fuck. That’s unattractive.”
Just another way the FI keeps men down. In that light, just wanting to uphold the law makes you a beta. I’ve never thought of this angle before, but I’m gonna be chewing on it awhile I suspect. Cool concept BP.
Protecting women will never give them alpha tingles, there’s nothing exciting about being safe.
This discussion comes back down to the inherent conflict in female desires. The things they want are inherently unsafe, yet they demand they be made safe for their consumption.
@Rollo re: Given time, IB only makes my points for me
The things that make the men rational do not make them good examples. When it comes time to demonstrate a point, find someone who wants tingles. Someone who thinks women should be shrill, opinionated and ambiguous. Someone who values white-knighting and expects or, even better, wants to do her share in the comment thread. These women exist and, trust me, over time, no-one makes your points better.
@Forge, I see what you did there.
“The things they want are inherently unsafe, yet they demand they be made safe for their consumption.”
See it that way: they want to make the unsaved save by their “secret female superpowers”. For this it has to be unsaved first. And when they get into that mode, that’s tingles.
Damn autocorrect. “unsafe” of course.
And providing social security is what “rape culture” is really all about. There’s very little interest in preventing, or prosecuting actual sex crimes. Rather what at stake is the ability of a woman exercise her sexual freedom without social consequence. So sleeping with the wrong guy becomes rape because the wrong guy compromises her options. Expanding the definition of sexual assault assures women that their self image, and more importantly, popular image is secure from defamation when an “en vino veritas” incident reveals her to have lower standards than she wishes to believe or have the herd believe. It’s why… Read more »
IB “Also, we often want someone more dominant than we are(I hope Mr bytes is not lurking here). What kind of protection does a nice guy provide?” Calling all white knights to court. Her question is asked from her default solipsistic presumption that universally all women are automatically by virtue of their gender entitled to protection from men or the man of their choice. Her scheme primarily depends on a universally accepted definition that defines the “man” in terms of her use of him. Her presumption is not even a consideration in her mind. To consider is to evaluate. It… Read more »
Yes, Forge, excellent re-write. Call it an “Open Red Pill Awareness” declaration. (For those following along at home: based on Sandberg’s Open Hypergamy declaration from Lean In.)
I hope Insanitybytes stays with us.
Come back, please come back.
Are europe’s and america’s current refugee & illigal alien problems really just a manifestation of a “mass hypergamy”?
” It is precisely because of this impressionistic, binary solipsism that women will never be happy with ‘fixing’ their Beta. This is why he has to Just Get It on his own. It is a far better proposition to impress a woman with an organic Alpha dominance – Alpha can only be a man’s dominant personality origin. There is no Beta with a side of Alpha because that side of Alpha is NEVER believable when your overall perception is one of being Beta to begin with. This is why I stress Alpha traits above all else. It’s easy, and endearing… Read more »
“Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat. Women often have to flee from the only homes they have ever known. Women are often the refugees from conflict and sometimes, more frequently in today’s warfare, victims. Women are often left with the responsibility, alone, of raising the children.” – Hillary Clinton. And insanitybytes : “Actually Tomassi, the men around here did those things because they respected themselves as men, because being gentleman was a way of setting themselves apart from others, it was a way of displaying their honor… Read more »
“Given time, IB only makes my points for me.”
What has me so entertained is that you seem to believe I’m disagreeing with you.
@Forge
Now give us a cute little nose wriggle, dear.
@All
This just in: Satan says the furnace in Hell appears to be on the fritz.
Tellin ya, feminists and SJWs overplayed their hand badly the past couple years. I talk to young kids, all of them find “feminist” a dirty word even if they’ve got fairly liberal, idealistic views. Now you’ve got even Obama saying “Knock that shit off”. The coming election year is gonna get really interesting.
scribblerg, “@Cave – Very interesting field report. You could see the hamster spinning – which was the real point of all this. It’s all negotiated desire with her and she’s merely trying to rope you back in. Take what you want and leave the rest. And if she doesn’t want to do what you want to do sexually, next her in that dept – but leave her quickly no matter what. Personal note, I never blow on a woman’s face, I don’t want to degrade them. Swallowing is nice because of them sucking through your orgasm, it feels fantastic. The… Read more »
“Developing your back is very important. It’s common to neglect it in weight training. Thick, strong, wide lats will help the V taper appearance. For shoulders my personal favorite is barbell overhead presses after cleaning the bar off the floor.” Softek, I can’t do presses do to a lower back injury from a car wreck, but I do seated dumbell rows and wide grip pullups. I joke that I could fly off a building and use my “lat wings” to fly. Yes, back is important! I agree about the martial arts. One thing I thought of today is where my… Read more »
Sun! That nose wriggle is for private time only!
“This is why she tells me she loves me…and means it. This is also why she can tell me she loves me and hold zero respect or sexual attraction for me.” I saw that shit coming in my marriage and turned the ship around with Rollo’s help. As Maxwell Smart would say: “The old she loves me but is not in love with me trick” Illimitable Man’s MAXIM #24: “If a woman is with a submissive man trying to become dominant, she will utterly oppose him. She has accepted he is submissive and so she revels in the power her… Read more »
“You weren’t ridiculous.” Seraph, Thanks for this. I was thinking today about the red pill, my journey, and everything I have learned. I think the biggest lesson I have learned is this: My self-respect is more important than ANYTHING ELSE. Period. No exceptions. The blue pill teaches you to throw that self respect out the window and give all your personal power to others, especially women. No pussy is worth my self respect. Personal responsibility is important to me though, and I haven’t quite reconciled that with my blue pill days. Sure, I was lied to, I was taught to… Read more »
@CaveClown Sounds like the only thing keeping you back is the necessity of living with this woman, frankly. It keeps you in the old mindset. Hell, who knows where I’d be if I didn’t share a workplace with a girl a) who I still get beta feelz for sometimes b) and who is fucking the manager whom I have to work with c) and who is being a cold bitch to me in order to drive me off of being angry and blowing shit up for them d) except when I turn her on, which happens sometimes now that I’m… Read more »
“Out of curiosity, why did you next the girl that was into you?”
She’s getting married in October.
Caveclown.
“She doesn’t like facials. Oh well for her, I like to give them. Sad on some level? Demoralizing is more the word for it. ”
It is not demoralizing if it was given by Johnny Depp Or George Clooney.
“It is not demoralizing if it was given by Johnny Depp Or George Clooney.”
I didn’t mean that the facials are demoralizing. I meant that I am demoralized because of her lack of genuine attraction.
“And once again, Dragonfly never passes up an opportunity to attack another woman and to speak down about her behind her back. There can be only one pretty princess, right Dragonfly?” LOL IB… you are so mentally ill… you crave all this drama with these men here, and any woman that comments here. And again, its just embarrassing to see how you’re behaving – I bet your regular Christian commenters have no idea what you’re doing over here. And as far as being a “pretty princess,” well at least I’m not some old, menopausal, ugly woman harassing men all day… Read more »
@IB – You are correct in a certain way. Men don’t act like “gentlemen” for each other, but we are civil with each other because we are men and men have developed a complex way of socializing with each other that establishes boundaries. We don’t expect service from each other. We don’t expect graciousness, just to be acknowledged and communicated with semi-politely. We do act like gentlemen towards the weak and lesser abled because we understand that the burden of strength is carrying the weak. We were asked as the strong to be the shield and provider and protector of… Read more »
CaveClown – “This is why she tells me she loves me…and means it. This is also why she can tell me she loves me and hold zero respect or sexual attraction for me.” So we can see what love is really worth. It’s just a feeling, and an inconsistent, weak, and low value feeling at that. This is why it is better to be feared on some level. Ideally fear that you may leave her, and forget her, and take away all the material benefit and status she received. This is why, as Insanity clearly states, women hate being judged.… Read more »
@Andy Not sure but I would love to have one. I think where pretty spread out. @Badpainter “Honorable men won’t protect women from the consequences of their actions, and protect them from the reasonable judgements of others. Functioning, civilized, socially positive military and police organizations are excellent at physical security, insofar as policy allows, but awful at providing social security of the type women crave, and demand from such men. An honorable man won’t defend the honor of a dishonorable woman.” I miss reading about King Arthur and Guinevere http://literateur.com/the-lancelot-dilemma/ “Like respect, love is not a feeling as a practical… Read more »
@ scribblerg
I once questioned the whole women and children first rule by arguing exactly that. Mostly I argued that the children were as a biological reality replaceable, but that there was no way to replace the immediate losses in labor and productivity of men lost. I came up with following hierarchy for such disasters:
1. Men aged 20-50
2. Women aged 15-30
3. Girls aged 10-15
4. Men aged 50+
5. Boys aged 10-20
6. Women aged 30+
7. Children under 10
Of course the looks of horror in response and the ensuing personal vilification were worth it.
@BP
http://therationalmale.com/2012/01/24/chivalry-vs-altruism/
—Rollo – “If a man serves a woman’s existential experience she’s more than happy to include his existence into part or all of her own.”
And this is the origin of Happy Wife = Happy Life.
Except where it all goes wrong is some shocking number of men thought they could by intent and design serve a woman’s existential experience such that they could earn the benefit of her including his existence in her own.—-
So ‘Happy Wife, Happy Life’ is achieved. Coming up…The next five minute segment where you must hoop jump again…
ScribllerG, your comments just keep getting better and better. And they stay on point. And as you have indicated in the past, “To me, the only issue is whether a comment is adding value and moving the dialog along in interesting ways. The ‘burden’ is to be engaging.” Your last comment reminds me of these lyrics: “Nautical Disaster” by The Tragically Hip I had this dream where I relished the fray And the screaming filled my head all day It was as though I’d been spit here Settled in, into the pocket Of a lighthouse on some rocky socket Off… Read more »
@scribblerg.
Great comment , agreed with every word you said.
Badpainter “Like respect, love is not a feeling as a practical matter it is an action, a behavior, and it is in the doing that it has value. As a feeling a woman’s love is less than useless for any man unless accompanied by action and practical effects of that action. Ignore the words, and only measure the value of the actions.” Now I think I understand what you meant when you thought it admirable that a woman would show love through actions (re: duty respect/sex). @Glenn… FWIW, I hope your daughter can somehow come to reconcile with you if… Read more »
1. Men aged 20-50 2. Women aged 15-30 3. Girls aged 10-15 4. Men aged 50+ 5. Boys aged 10-20 6. Women aged 30+ 7. Children under 10 BP, Doesn’t this just prove the disposeability of men? This essentially shows what is needed to survive as a species, pragmatically as it were. Men to provide security for breeding, women to breed with, future breeders, etc. Which leaves more “work horse men” than it does breeding women. So men are good for society, good for civilization, but expendable at the individual level. “So we can see what love is really worth.… Read more »
As an aside, it’s harribly entertaining to ask a woman that has no respect, no admiration, and no attraction for you to define “love” when she says “I love you”
The mental gymnastics that the hamster has to go through to not incriminate itself is amazing.
Almost everything she could possibly say to define it, she does not do…
*horribly (harribly? wtf is that?)
“LOL IB… you are so mentally ill…”
So says the new bride who arrives right on schedule for her evening dose of tingles. Quite intoxicating isn’t it? You want to save them all, to be their redeemer, to be the only one who understands them.
If you cared one bit about any of these men, you would speak the truth to them, not work so hard to try to tell them what you think they want to hear. Are you truly that ignorant as to the nature of your own self or do you do it on purpose?
A better, more masculine, less self-interested and manipulative way to understand it:
Love is an action.
Infatuation is an emotion.
Sexual arousal is an impulse.
Actions bear weight. Emotions are real, but are unreliable and transient. Impulses are very transient but somewhat more reliable (that is, they tend to re-occur if given the same stimuli).
Heheh, she’s into the
whinewine again……….@Forge
That nose wriggle is for private time only!
Insanitybytes “If you cared one bit about any of these men, you would speak the truth to them, not work so hard to try to tell them what you think they want to hear. Are you truly that ignorant as to the nature of your own self or do you do it on purpose?” Come on Insanity, go for it, more stuff like “who needs the protection of nice guys ” or “you want a dominant man”. Don’t get me wrong, I love your honesty. What else you’ve got in the bag? What is the true nature of women that… Read more »
IB confuses so many terms in her posts it strikes as willful ignorance. “protection” when she means “tingles” ? That’s about as horribly wrong as you could get. She’s either menopausal and frankly isn’t thinking straight, or she’s young and so solipsistic she is truly incapable of considering other viewpoints.. to the point of mental illness.
She’s menopausal, an aging 2nd stage feminist.
Ya know, now that you mention it, all the signs are there:
http://therationalmale.com/2014/12/01/the-fog-of-menopause/
@Anonymous Reader, you called it.
@Dragonfly, I think you’re right, InsanityBytes suffers from a bipolar disorder:
https://insanitybytes2.wordpress.com/2015/09/15/mini-pause/
http://therationalmale.com/2014/12/01/the-fog-of-menopause/comment-page-2/#comment-118393
She’s even posting under pseudonyms now. Her commenters are even beginning to see this mental imbalance now.
CaveClown – “Doesn’t this just prove the disposeability of men?” Perhaps, but without that then everyone dies. The disposability of men is likely a matter of perspective, maybe we should call it the utility of men. If we accept eggs expensive and sperm cheap, then we must also accept the very limited utility of women. Men are the Jacks of all trades, women the Janes of one trade. A woman who isn’t pregnant, trying to get pregnant, or a mother is of no value compared to any average man. The system, whatever system that is, tries to find places for… Read more »
@Badpainter
“Actively keeping, preserving and providing for everyone, no matter how useless, lazy, misanthropic, degenerate, or defective (physically or mentally) is ultimately social suicide.”
That is a nice succinct description of the European Union.
Ps,
I hope Mr bytes is in bed by now.
Probably sleeps in the attic….
@Badpainter Actively keeping, preserving and providing for everyone, no matter how useless, lazy, misanthropic, degenerate, or defective (physically or mentally) is ultimately social suicide. It’s a rational point but it leaves no room for compassion, not to mention I’d wager there’s ways you violate it because of that same fact. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve considered the same idea (particularly when “think of the children” gets involved; if you can’t take care of your own damn children, your genes should fail right?) but the complete lack of compassionate behavior therein strikes me as sociopathic, ya know? Next thing you know… Read more »
@ Sun Wukong
I’ve anticipated your response.
There’s a huge difference between actively keeping and preserving everyone, at any cost, and simply allowing for the greatest amount of freedom for everyone to find his/her own place within the system.
For all the avarice, greed, dishonesty, and general shittiness of people there’s also a strong natural tendency toward tolerance and charity. I am not concerned about the worst case you present because that can only happen in a totalitarian system which has much bigger problems like feeding everyone.
Saw a tattoo on this girl
“He who makes a beast of himself
Gets rid of the pain of being a man.”
Not bad. It’s true.
Off topic here. I have a Field Report but I’ll save that for later.
Any tips on dealing with erectile dysfunction and premature ejaculation?
Perspective/mentality shifts, etc., and how to handle it in a more masculine way if it happens?
Outside of “it doesn’t happen to Alphas.” Although maybe if I adopt that mentality, it’ll get rid of the problem. Could very well be true. At a loss here at the moment.
“Any tips on dealing with erectile dysfunction and premature ejaculation?”
I say erectile dysfunction is a lack of attraction on her part. Her being horny is not enough, it needs feelz.
Premature ejaculation happens imo, if you are too connected to her, your mental point of origin is with her and not with you. It indicates her having the power.
So both are bad signs, you have to do something to get more distance, more focus on you.
I’m interested to read other opinions though.
@lh: http://www.samueljohnson.com/depressi.html
Perspective/mentality shifts, etc., and how to handle it in a more masculine way if it happens?
Don’t say you’re sorry. Keep frame. Fuck her again a few minutes later.
I would say see her less, approach other women. Read this.
http://therationalmale.com/2014/11/23/vulnerability/
There’s no use in getting feelings for her.
@Softek You’re getting too much in your head about this. Give the thing some breathing room. Quickly, before you catch too many feels. Doesn’t mean go ghost or anything. Ya just need to do something totally perpendicular to the relationship for at least a day or two. Go out and try to get another girl. Tonight if possible. Yes, you will almost certainly fail, doesn’t matter. Hell, even turn a girl down if it comes to it and you don’t feel like following through. The point is the mindset the attempt will create. Even if you just hit on some… Read more »
@Badpainter, I once questioned the whole women and children first rule by arguing exactly that. Mostly I argued that the children were as a biological reality replaceable, but that there was no way to replace the immediate losses in labor and productivity of men lost. I came up with following hierarchy for such disasters: That is so odd, because I came up with a list like that too! Mine was slightly different. 1. Women HB 9-10 – Carrying at least half their weight in food. 2. Women HB 7-8 – Carrying at least half their weight in food. 3. Women… Read more »
Oh, and if you try to spin plates, hide that shit. Never rub a woman’s face in it.
I’ve made the mistake of trying to subtly ‘demonstrate’ that I had options before. Dropping hints and so on. It just frustrates girls and makes you look like a poser. Then another time ol’ oneitis walked in on me texting and I quickly tried to hide my phone. Holy hell did that ah, activate things. I wasn’t even texting another girl I was just feeling guilty cause I was supposed to be working lol.
‘re: ED
Any health issues? Heart troubles, low T, diabetes, obesity.
Also, monogamy, high alcohol use (raises estrogen), porn, masturbation.
Oh, I meant to say earlier: @lh, tremendous work on your BPD field report. I wouldn’t touch that situation with a barge pole, but it’s fascinating to see how these dynamics can work and how they function when they do. It’s like, if you give no fucks about their tactics and manipulations, see through them as just a sort of behavior bubbling up from a deeply-rooted shame/anxiety, then you can actually be able to connect with them as a person in some fashion. From what I can tell people who have BPD feel as though their symptoms are uncontrollable things… Read more »
@Caveclown ““love” is just a tool used by women to further their agenda. Even the word itself has no concrete definitive meaning. It’s vague, it’s ambiguous.” Last thing my sister said to me was “ok live you” It’s weird but your right because for me it’s what we expect or how we think. It’s the idealism that gets to us. “Also, monogamy, high alcohol use (raises estrogen), porn, masturbation.” Ain’t that the truth @Forge the sky “A better, more masculine, less self-interested and manipulative way to understand it: Love is an action. Infatuation is an emotion. Sexual arousal is an… Read more »
Re: texting other girls
I made that mistake with being overt about other women too, dropping hints and such.
Overt does not work.
Meanwhile this weekend my wife tried a bunch of times to find a reason to get behind me while I was texting. She was pretty obvious about it. I would just turn the phone away when she did. Funny. Obvious dread, obvious jealousy. Still, shitty sex that night.
I really was texting a girl at one point though.
@Softie – On fighting. Fyi, I’m noting your progress and couldn’t be happier for you. I’m no tough guy. A trained person could lay me out pretty quickly. But someone who is untrained? I have two abilities in a fight that have served me very well, let me share them with you so if you find yourself in a real fight you can improve your chances. 1. When I do fight, I go “full maniac” from the outset. Usually, I’ll get the guy on the ground with a good open field tackle aimed at the upper thighs, (works on guys… Read more »
“From what I can tell people who have BPD feel as though their symptoms are uncontrollable things that happen to them; they don’t identify with their behavior. Like how a person with depression is ‘not acting like himself.’ So you ignore and deflect the pathology effectively, and lo and behold there’s a person underneath.” Yesterday evening was interesting: I sent her to bed early to have some time for me alone, she did. When I came to bed later she asked for body contact. I pulled her over and let her cuddle me. She started crying and couldn’t stop. It… Read more »
@ thedeclineandfall
If you haven’t yet I recommend reading Camp Of The Saints by Jean Raspail. The story isn’t much, but the total critique of what has gone wrong with Western Civilization is simply brilliant.
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/pdfs/camp_of_the_saints.pdf
@ Seraph
I like your criteria, time allowing a good subset to incorporated into mine.
@lh
“I don’t know what it means.”
It seems to be a simple shit test. And you passed it. On to the next one.
Aren’t all shit tests from BPD chicks mostly also comfort tests?
Yes on BPD chicks having comfort tests. Their entire world is built on low self esteem and insecurity. Like a normal chicks insecurity on steroids. Problem is they want reassurance and comfort, which is attraction destroying.
They tear others down to bring them to their level, since they can not build themselves up.
It seems to be a simple shit test. And you passed it. On to the next one.
Why would you bother? Normal women are so much easier and more enjoyable.
Is she BPD? The crying thing as you described is pretty mild for a BPD.
@ scribbler I also grew up fighting and wrestling a lot. Military brat, blue collar neighborhood (one elementary classmate executed for murder and one in prison for armed robbery), and a brother about the same size who loved wrestling just because. 1. When I do fight, I go “full maniac” from the outset. Usually, I’ll get the guy on the ground with a good open field tackle aimed at the upper thighs, (works on guys twice your size) and then I punch him in the face as many times as I can before my arms give out. But you have… Read more »
A more BPD response would of been to turn down the sex saying that she needed to be comforted, then wake you later at 2 am, demanding to know why you are no longer attracted to her because you stopped initiating sex when she said no…and then be bright and cheerful the next day.
@Dragonfly – It’s worth a lot, thanks – because I think you mean it. I’m already working on that situation from a much calmer and more realistic place. I’m really sorry to hear about your Dad. Even the death of my psychopathic, sadistic father shook me. There is something visceral about one’s relationship with a father. Let me expand just a bit here, for the benefit of other men here who don’t know my story. Divorced when she was 4 (ex had moved on to other guy). Ex married him when daughter was 7 and they moved out the town… Read more »
And then six months later she would remind you of that night, ask you who the slut is that you are fucking on the side, and then give you porn star sex. Afterwards, she’ll cry because you don’t love her and she is not good enough for you and you hate her body because you didn’t come as quickly as normal.
Of course then she thinks you’re cheating. How can she tell? Your ejaculate volume is down. Its normally more than that after 2 days, didn’t ya know?