Jails & Churches

self-control

Slut Walkers & Soccer Moms

This picture has been making the rounds on Face Book recently. Last I looked it’d been shared about 89,000 times from the source I pulled it from. For the most part, what passes for some organized debate in most comment threads about this centered on a conflict between two factions of women – the responsible mothers and the ‘Slut Walk’ feministas faction of the femosphere.

Yes, ‘responsible mothers’ and Soccer Moms are in fact a very vocal part of the Feminine Imperative’s sphere of social control. It’s a mistake to believe women of a feminist bent are the only driving factor in influencing a feminine-primary social order. It’s not just grrrl-power demi-lesbians with fuschia hair, it’s that sensibly dressed lady in Target too. As I mentioned in last weeks post, Peak Hypergamy is yet to be settled, but until then the women who’s sexual strategy would best be served by keeping the ugliness of it secret will be at odds with women who proudly embrace open Hypergamy with gusto.

It’s easy to apply our Red Pill lens for such things as TV shows, popular music and media, and see the social undercurrent messaging of the Feminine Imperative, but there are some more subtle instances that need a proper lens focus on them. One trapping of the Red Pill lens is that aware men often overlook the more personal, more localized influence of the Feminine Imperative when they see the most public displays of it.

I’ve stated in prior posts that if you took a roomful of God-fearing traditionalist women and asked them if they identified as feminists the answers would range from “No” to a resounding “Hell no!” However, if you asked them specifics of how a woman’s role in society should be defined, what a woman’s obligations to a man ought to be, or in what way women’s influence in should be expressed in our culture (westernizing), then you would get your real answer.

Most traditionalist women would be appalled to be associated with anything bearing the Feminist® brand name, but still find themselves carrying the same flag when it comes to their rationalized beliefs. The ‘Sisterhood’ comes before all other considerations – be they politics, religion or personal interests – the Feminine Imperative is the common thread that underscores all intrasexual relations with women.

Tribe of the Sisterhood

In a social context, a principle strength of the Feminine Imperative is a presupposed, tribalistic sense of intrasexual belonging amongst women that transcends politics, race identity, religious conviction and ideology. We euphemistically refer to this dynamic as the sisterhood, but this female ‘belonging’ shares it’s roots in our foraging evolutionary past. Thus, women from starkly different cultures or socio-economic tiers still share that common theme of pre-known ‘oppression’ by the nebulous patriarchy.

One problem I have with recent rise of self-styled anti-feminist “Red Pill Women” is that while on the surface it appears that they are “pro-men”, the real impetus is that they are “anti-feminists”. In other words, their primary concern becomes one of opposing the methods and ideologies of how best to assert the influences of the Feminine Imperative they both ultimately serve. The common tribalism of the sisterhood is still present, but the applications of how best to instrument it is the source of that conflict.

This is what I believe we’re witnessing in debates of this nature; it is a conflict between women who’d be better served by keeping men confused and in doubt of the mechanics of Hypergamy versus women who believe they’d be better served in openly and proudly embracing Hypergamy. This is the primary reason women despise other women who are openly ‘Gold Diggers’ or ‘Attention Whores’, or even prostitutes – their method of optimizing their own hypergamous interests reveals their sex’s larger sexual strategy which they’d rather men not fully comprehend (until such time as they are ready to consolidate on men’s commitment).

It’s important that Red Pill men not be fooled into thinking that ‘traditionalist’ women are in anyway less predisposed to the influences of their sex’s imperatives. They’re not unique or better suited to a feminine role because of their ideology, they simply can’t afford to have sexual rivals with different methodologies competing for the same optimization of Hypergamy.

Social Saturation

This may seem an unlikely way to address the core issue of this notice to school administrators, but read me out here. There are two presumptions implied in this message. The first is the presumption that these school-age girls are being shamed by expecting them to adhere to some modicum of dressing to a certain standard – a standard they can expect once they exit school as well I should add.

The second is that these girls wearing shorts that are too short, and bra straps so noticeable as to draw attention from school administrators (God forbid a male teacher make such a judgement call) would be more concerned with the their educational prospects than influencing the boys in their environment is questionable.

And lastly the presumption is that boys of a certain age should be taught to control themselves to counter their synaptic wiring and biochemical responses and not ‘objectify’ the girls who take it upon themselves to dress provocatively.

These are relatively easy assessments to make about the intent of this note, however, what both factions of women debating this presume is a condition of feminine primacy. The feminine presumption is one that this school is nominally founded in male primacy – the girls distract the boys with their advertised sexuality – but the expectation is one based in the male Burden of Performance.

While it’s important for men to have an objective understanding of their burden of performance, it’s equally important for men to realize that women understand the utility of that burden and put it to their own opportunistic ends. In a feminine-primary perspective that burden translates into these boys needing to be taught to act against their biological impetus.

The shaming isn’t about girls having their education interrupted for wearing booty shorts or their tits pushed up by exposed bras; the implied shame is that these boys are not being instructed to understand that their burden is one of controlling the very biology that compels them to distraction. In a feminine-primary context the real “shame” should be on the boys who see girls (who are signaling sexual cues) as the sexual objects these girls are intentionally making of themselves.

The implied prioritization of undistracted education is presumed to be focused towards the males in the class, but the reality is that this education is taking place in a feminine-primary environment that is being inconvenienced by social standards.

The Feminine Expectation of Performance

Instead of adapting to the realities of their environment, women expect men to accommodate their sexual strategies and incorporate them into their accepted burden of performance.

CH maxim: The feminist goal is removing all constraints on female sexuality while maximally restricting male sexuality

This goal is eminently more achievable when men are taught that it is an aspect of their Burden of Performance to self-restrict their sexuality for a feminine-primary purpose. It was recently brought up in last week’s comments that the rise in unfettered, openly acknowledged Hypergamy is (or is becoming) a comparable condition to men’s unrestricted sexuality. The contrast of course was flipping the script and considering what the results would be if it were men who’s sexual strategy was unrestricted to the degree Hypergamy has currently.

In an exaggerated feminine-primary context, women like to believe this was once the case. Granted the apex fallacy is rife in that presumption, but the Feminine Imperative needs to establish a preexisting notion that women must necessarily suffer in a masculine-primary social order. That’s the presumptive social context this note was crafted in. The truth of the matter is that the Feminine Imperative cannot afford for both women and men to believe anything different if it is to remain the primary social influence.

This presumption is what brings women of conflicting ideological bents together in solidarity despite their disagreements; there is always a common enemy, a common opposition, in the belief that it’s men who are calling the shots for them. And as I said, this apex fallacy presumption is universal in that it transcends ideology and religious convictions. Thus we see similar social conventions used to maximally restrict male sexuality in those same institutions.

Holistic Game had an interesting take on this restriction this week:

I was raised Southern Baptist, then moved on to some form of megachurch-style evangelical Christianity in high school. I felt that sex before marriage was sinful, that lust was evil, and that the female body was a source of lurid temptation. It was a constant struggle not to look at porn. I remember being in a men’s young adult service when I was 24 and the pastor asked, with heads bowed, if any man in the room hadn’t looked at porn. I peeked and realized no one had raised their hand – every man in the room had indulged at some point. Though I couldn’t grasp it at the time, I’ve since come to understand that there is no point in repressing natural human desire.

I certainly couldn’t contain my urges forever, and ended up losing my virginity later that year. I was teaching guitar to a hot blonde beach babe a couple years older than me, and we got drinks one night. We fooled around, tipsily, and after a few weeks of on-and-off gropings I finally decided to fuck her. After the act was completed, I sat on her deck and looked at the ocean and searched myself. I never imagined the staining of my chastity happening in such a fashion, but I had to face the reality that it had happened. I tried to be honest with myself, and to my surprise, I found that I didn’t feel guilty. At all. The one thing I’d tried to save, that seemed to matter so much to God and his plans, I’d wasted on a stupid blonde I’d end up dumping. I should have felt overwhelmed by holy conviction, but didn’t feel anything but normality. I felt like I was finally part of the human race. This lack of guilt was the crack in the foundation that eventually led to the shattering of the whole rotten edifice.

Holistic expounds on this experience into doubting the existence of God (which I honestly think is a shame), but it’s important to understand how this presumptive state of male social primacy, and the necessity to mandate chastity as a man’s Burden of Performance has effects that go well beyond a man self-limiting his participation in his sexual strategy.

I think a necessary stage in becoming Red Pill aware is truly understanding not just our preconditioning, but the social environment that condition takes place within. This acknowledgement needs to take place in order to really unplug; it cannot simply be an acceptance that a guy was raised into his Blue Pill circumstance, he must also recognize the social conditions he’s still operating within, and he must recognize how to avoid the pitfalls and make the changes he wants to see in that world.

In a Blue Pill, feminine-primary social order plugged in men are left to participate in two institutions: jails and churches. I can imagine the frustration Red Pill men must feel when they see their friends trapped in those institutions. They see their friends in an endless tail-chasing of a performance of their own doing, but a result of their ‘teachers’ investing it in them. They contort in an endless self-expectation to be better men by self-defeating the essence that make them men. Then they are punished for the slightest infraction of acceding to that male essence, not so much by the women they hope to perform for, but rather a disappointment in themselves for not living up to what they believe are their own self-developed expectations of a standard that only serves the feminine.

Yes I know my enemies, they’re the teachers who taught me to fight me.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Matt
Matt
6 years ago

Fred, All I can really say is that there are a few events per year where sanctioned group dating occurs, but not much outside of that. Generally speaking, the majority of guys stick to their groups and don’t approach women. True, One of the problems is that men rarely approach. But, the average guy has also been scarred by public rejection. Preselection is a very big deal on campus. Cold approach by the average guy would quickly lead to pariah status. Another thing is that many girls appear to be dating or in some kind of relationship with men off-campus,… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Yeah Tomassi!!! You cultian you!!! That is total crap, not to be confused with incomplete crap!!!

I never understand what Irritablebowel22 is ranting about or against because her massive negativity renders me dyslexic whilst reading her responses.

Matt
Matt
6 years ago

I should say though, that a large amount of guys are major beta orbiters. So, most girls are not walking alone, just with their girlfriends and an orbiter or two who are pretty much seen as the gay best friend.

insanitybytes22
6 years ago

“$10 says IB’s first thought is to excuse forgive this woman’s infidelity and (naturally female) lack of empathy before any consideration of faith or marriage vows”

Mail me my ten bucks, will you? I find the entire Ashley Madison thing quite amusing, I have no sympathy for this woman, in fact I think the way she is treating a dying man is absolutely appalling, and Greenwald makes a pathetic and epic failure to engender sympathy for her.

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
6 years ago

It’s really telling that IB has doubled down on hijacking this thread, after her failure to do so in the last one. She thinks Rollo is a ‘cultian’? That he gives the men who follow him no other choice but to follow his ideas? Funny, but I never felt a gun to my head, forcing me to read Rollo or agree with him. I came across the blog, started reading, and it made sense to me. Unlike most of what I’ve read of IB’s writing… (Although I thought I saw a little promise there with a couple of her blog… Read more »

insanitybytes22
6 years ago

“Address Matt’s comment. Address Holistic’s story in the post” I think there has been a huge backlash against the Christian idea of Eve as the root of all evil that lead to the very real shaming and persecution of women within traditional Christianity. Women have always been blamed for all sexuality, including men’s. I think the pendulum has now swung to shaming men for everything, while women are pretty much perceived as victims. The church has a long history of being unable to even discuss healthy sexuality outside the context of shame/blame. Sex is always portrayed as bad, shameful, or… Read more »

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
6 years ago

@Lucien “Our hedonism is what has turned this into a fem-centric society. Everyone worships something, and if you have nothing but your desires, then you will worship the object of those desires — and the greatest of those objects is pussy.” I would argue that if we really want to understand the fountainhead of this hedonism, the place to start is by studying the work of Theodor Adorno, Herbert Marcuse, Wilhelm Reich, and the rest of ‘The Frankfurt School’ of Cultural Marxist social engineers. The basic goal of these people was to infiltrate Western institutions – education, media, entertainment –… Read more »

insanitybytes22
6 years ago

“..one I’d expect from a middle aged Christian woman who can’t be bothered to think past the easy answers her wife-controlled pastor has given her…”

Stick it tomassi, you’re a waste of my time.

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

Oh snap!

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Rollo, I just left a comment regarding IB and as is often the case when I link other blogs I think it went to moderation. Can you rescue it from moderation?

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
6 years ago

You’re a waste of her time, Rollo. But she still comes here to argue. Amazing.

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

I know nothing of this IB woman, but she does get a lot of attention.

Funny that more women don’t comment here. They obviously don’t view us as a threat.

bo jangles
bo jangles
6 years ago

You are talking alot about evolution, I think you really need to sit down with a few full blooded indians and see what they think about “hypergamy”. I’ve been to more than a few indian reservation and even fucked a full blooded indian woman and things that stand out-they often aren’t too concerned of whose children are whose, the whole tribe takes care of them. Lying is perfectly acceptable. Everyone is lazy except when it comes to sex, in which case its no holds barred(including incest and pedofilia). Its very important to be agreeable, and generous with ones personal possesions.… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Every day I see a female wearing ass tight clothing, and tops that leave very little to the imagination. It’s an epidemic. If I’m walking when I see this type of ” street wear “, if something catches my attention I look. If I can get up close enough to get a good look, I do. Sometimes I get a look of embarrassment. When I get those looks, I usually relent and avert my gaze. Every once in a while I get asked ” what are you looking at???”. The responses vary dependent on what I’m looking at. ” Your… Read more »

Enrique
Enrique
6 years ago

@blax “not even Lewis and Clarke could find a fuck for me to give” I’m gonna “Carlos Mencia” that one. LOL. Speaking of clothing, while I’m not a conservative, pious Muslim, I still get a kick out of the full hijab in the traditional cultures. You can’t tell they are ugly, per se (although in those cultures they can be “described” by a walī), but then, if you marry ugly, no other guy is really gonna know, you just have to be the one that goes to bed with her every nite. The whole “covering” vs. American Slutwalk girl, must… Read more »

ManlyMan
ManlyMan
6 years ago

That’s the crux of it all Blax. They wanna dress the way they want, but they wanna control WHO looks.

Hypergamy to the end.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

I agree Rollo. I’m talking about women who dress like that practically everywhere, and they aren’t pulling it off well. Just tight and short for the hell of it. It’s not thought out and strategic, if you get my drift.

Why do I need to see your areolas in the drug store on a Sunday morning for crying out loud?

Dressing to arouse is becoming a lost art. Some cashiers pimply boob practically falling out of her mini top at Autozone is a bit much, And I’ll skip the bad tats and neon colored hair for today.

Lucien
Lucien
6 years ago

@Kid Jupiter I’ve studied the Frankfurt School extensively, and I don’t recognize them at all in the account you gave. The Frankfurt School has little to nothing to do with this. True, Marcuse wrote Eros and Civilization, which inspired the first generation of 60s sexual revolutionaries. But that doesn’t add up to much. We’ve played several rounds of this game and, in fact, very little of the original spirit of the sexual revolution matters today. Besides, Marcuse was just one scribbler. Why were young people taking to his readings in the first place? Marcuse also spoke out against “repressive desublimation”… Read more »

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
6 years ago

I enjoy attractive women with nice bodies who dress to accentuate and display their nice bodies. I have a problem with unattractive, overweight/obese women who dress in similar clothing, who are accentuating rolls of blubber and look like the Stay Puft Marshmellow Man. When they try to pull off spandex or yoga pants, their legs look like overstuffed sausages. A lot of them will wear tank tops with the flab hanging out, complete with belly button piercings and tramp stamps. No shame at all. But every woman is beautiful, according to the FI, right? I don’t like when women dress… Read more »

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
6 years ago

@Lucien I brought up the Frankfurt School to try to come up with some starting point for a discussion on the hyper-sexualization of Western culture, especially women. From my research, I think I came close to capturing the basic essence of what they were propagating in my admittedly unscholarly comment. I think the Frankfurt School and the effect of its influence on Western education, media, and entertainment is immense and very relevant to this discussion. I’m not familiar with Marcuse’s One Dimensional Man, only Eros & Civilization, which was a cornerstone of the sexual revolution, according to my research. And… Read more »

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
6 years ago

PS, I don’t want to overpost, but I just want to include this, which I copied from the above article I linked: “To further the advance of their ‘quiet’ cultural revolution – but giving us no ideas about their plans for the future – the School recommended (among other things): 1. The creation of racism offences. 2. Continual change to create confusion 3. The teaching of sex and homosexuality to children 4. The undermining of schools’ and teachers’ authority 5. Huge immigration to destroy identity. 6. The promotion of excessive drinking 7. Emptying of churches 8. An unreliable legal system… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” . . . it’s men’s burden of performance to live up to some Equalist standard of self control or some magical ability to turn their sexuality off as some sign of maturity.”

What it is is sexual assault. See Cool Hand Luke, it’s not like they don’t know what they’re doing.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

When I see a yoga pants or boobs or a camel toe here is what I do :

1, I avoid looking at her eyes period.
2, I LOCK my widening eyes on the the target till she passes me.
I always notice her body balances in all directions
Ps
Your should NEVER look her in the eye.

gunnerq
6 years ago

CHSCoug @ 3:00 pm: “I’ve been a high school teacher for many years, and many of those years were in Las Vegas (Henderson, to be more accurate), and the female students there dressed very provocatively. Ironically, perhaps, the young men there are so inured to the young women’s dress that it’s about as distracting to them as that godawful carpeting in the old casinos.” That’s how I see things ending up: women slutting ever harder to attract increasingly jaded men until women finally let it all hang out like cows and men consume them with as much enthusiasm and commitment… Read more »

Lucien
Lucien
6 years ago

Couldn’t disagree more with the idea that the only problem here is poor taste and ugly women. That’s copping out. Anyway, it’s clear there are some different ideas out there.

Some great, relevant Matt Forney:

http://mattforney.com/why-men-love-michelle-jenneke/

Note: modest, coy, and demure women are feminine. Aggressive and desperate women are not.

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
6 years ago

“So how does Dalrock manage to still get it wrong? By endlessly focusing on the sins and errors of women, he robs men of their own power and responsibility, he encourages bitterness and resentment, and he promotes male victimhood. His threads are full of it. Code brown.” Guy is fking dying of cancer. Made a mutual marriage vow to stick together through thick and thin, sickness and health, blah blah. Wife can only think about herself and her vaginal bang-out needs. But we should portion some blame out onto the husband for expecting (and demanding, it seems) the wife live… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Badpainter

Needless to say she was shocked by my callous, sexist, and chauvanistic attitude to which I responed “yeah, but you’ll get over it, I know I did.”

Modern women need more chauvinists/tingles in their life, and I’m happy to oblige. It’s more fun that way anyway.

@Rollo

C’mon IB, I expect better than school yard shit from you.

No you don’t, otherwise she’d serve no purpose here.

As for the OP, I saw it mentioned but I figured we needed this video:

Tom K.
6 years ago

A Christian man acting as a man can have any woman he wants and if he treats her as the Bible says to treat her, that is, as her Master and Lord, inviting her along on HIS life’s journey, he can retain his chastity until HE decides to get married. Which means, he will NOT have a six month to two year “engagement.” He will NOT bankrupt her father for no purpose but to put on a show. He will ask that the money her father is going to spend on the wedding be given to THEM so they have… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

Re: Matt’s comments: I graduated from a Christian college not that long ago. I tended to be a bit socially isolated back then, so I didn’t know all that much about how any actual sex was happening, or with whom. But I can mostly confirm everything he said. A powerful emphasis on sexual purity (which the men take more seriously than the women), dorm and social segregation, shaming for sexual activity (leading to covert boyfriends off-campus or most sexual activity happening at drunken parties attended only by those ‘cool’ with it), most men being hardcore beta orbiters adopting personas in… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

Damn, I need to read my comments before posting. It’s not so incoherent that I need to post corrections, but I do apologize for the atrocious wordsmithing.

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
6 years ago

@Forge Don’t worry, your comment was understandable. “The only guys who really seemed to have much action were the reprobates, the guys whom everyone else looked harshly upon, and who didn’t care. Mostly athletes, some music and art majors.” I’m not a religious Christian like yourself and a few other guys who have been commenting. I can’t subscribe to an orthodox belief system that asks me to literally believe in irrational things like virgin births, miracles, and risings from the dead. (To my understanding, these are metaphors for spiritual concepts, not to be taken literally if you’re to truly grasp… Read more »

DeNihilist
DeNihilist
6 years ago

IB – “. The church has a long history of being unable to even discuss healthy sexuality outside the context of shame/blame. Sex is always portrayed as bad, shameful, or else not spoken of at all.” Actually, the shaming is not meant to shame but to control. Sex, being the base energy of all animals, is the strongest energy in our system. By shaming sex, the good fathers of the church realized that they could get man to fight himself, and thus take control. You must go through the preacher, priest, rabbi, mullah, etc. to get to god. If they… Read more »

DeNihilist
DeNihilist
6 years ago

Funny slut walk video

http://www.therebel.media/_there_is_no_rape_culture

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

I’m not sure IB gets this right: “… also fails to offer this terrorist any chance of redemption, says nothing about grace and mercy, and only seeks to heap more shame and condemnation on him. I say he’s being selfish and makes a lousy poster child for engendering sympathy, but I don’t walk in his shoes, I don’t have a terrorist group, I don’t have a AK47, I do not know what pressures are in his life, in his head.” now she’s been trying to find the good in child murderers, but hey, this is a terrorist, where does one… Read more »

Badpainter
Badpainter
6 years ago

@ redlight

IB believes in martyrdom. She believes living is sin, and happiness not centered on worshipping the creator is the ultimate sin. Churchians like her are why I’m a Christian Separatist.

TheLastCoyote
TheLastCoyote
6 years ago

Indeed, there’s been a bunch of drivel posted on FB about this girl who got sent home from school. I live in a fairly conservative area where there are a number of stay at home moms, or moms who work only a few hours a week. To see how rich the irony is, all I have to do is go to my gym where a lot of these same women are dress in yoga/exercise pants, and other types of exercise clothes that leave absolutely nothing to imagination. This gym has a childcare center and teenagers who work out there. But… Read more »

fleezer
fleezer
6 years ago

“Why do I need to see your areolas in the drug store on a Sunday morning for crying out loud?” because areolas are awesome! and no matter how many I see I always want to see more because they’re all different and a very very small percentage are actually perfect. I’m in the minority here but I love this shit. the day is just that much more exciting when I can see young pussy lips sticking out of yoga pants and nipples popping through tight tops because I’m always on the hunt and it makes choosing targets that much easier.… Read more »

kobayashii1681
6 years ago

“This is what I believe we’re witnessing in debates of this nature; it is a conflict between women who’d be better served by keeping men confused and in doubt of the mechanics of Hypergamy versus women who believe they’d be better served in openly and proudly embracing Hypergamy. This is the primary reason women despise other women who are openly ‘Gold Diggers’ or ‘Attention Whores’, or even prostitutes – their method of optimizing their own hypergamous interests reveals their sex’s larger sexual strategy which they’d rather men not fully comprehend (until such time as they are ready to consolidate on… Read more »

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

I am surprised that there are still people out there that go to church. Around here the churches are supported by the local historical societies. Nobody attends, but nobody wants to see a 250 year old church in ruins at the center of the village. A lot of them end up being transformed into trendy restaurants or houses.

Apparently I need to get out more.

Vitriol
Vitriol
6 years ago

@DeNihilist “Sex, being the base energy of all animals, is the strongest energy in our system… The whole idea of sex being a sin is nothing but a raw power play to ensnare humanity into slavery.” The contradiction is very obvious. We were allegedly created by a being who gave us instincts in order to survive, but when you act upon these instincts it’s a sin. There’s no realistic way to escape this cycle without just rotting away in a dark room somewhere and never doing anything (which some religious sects have done at various points in history). Therefore, everyone… Read more »

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[…] Slut Walkers & Soccer Moms […]

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
6 years ago

@Vitriol

“I thought the original issue from the article was that it’s clearly a double standard to allow women to dress a certain way, but if men look at how they’re dressed the men are wrong and the women are blameless […]”

And since when has a comment thread stuck solely to the original issue?

Fred Flange, Master of Spoons
Fred Flange, Master of Spoons
6 years ago

Thanks to @Matt and @Forge for those reports. I had not considered the additional gloss of the small school environment. Where a good part of the class know each other, so any one strikeout could be perceived as a social failing that could be known to several others, and thus a further impediment to approaching. Interesting. The question now is: what about the big schools? You might strike out and worry it’s a fail-marker, but in a class of 25,000 who would know? I could suppose that sheer numbers, and the prospect of gong off campus to approach, ought to… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@Kid Jupiter “I’m not a religious Christian like yourself and a few other guys who have been commenting. I can’t subscribe to an orthodox belief system that asks me to literally believe in irrational things like virgin births, miracles, and risings from the dead. (To my understanding, these are metaphors for spiritual concepts, not to be taken literally if you’re to truly grasp the meaning of the concepts.) I try to follow the Golden Rule and all that, but when push comes to shove and I have to act more on the primate side of things with people who are… Read more »

bnon
bnon
6 years ago

Let me just note here that all this Christianity stuff is very Ameri-centric to me. In real life, I’ve never heard anybody suggest two people get married before 25 or heard someone say they want to wait till 20++ with sex.

http://i.imgur.com/gYhiTVM.jpg

Liz
Liz
6 years ago

“I’m surprised that girls dressing slutty would still bother people in 2015 unless you were raised in a Muslim country or among the Amish or something. Even when I see ugly or fat girls dressed this way, seeing their flea market tattoos, stretch marks, and cellulite usually creates some interesting humor that makes the day more entertaining.” Does it surprise you that public spitting, defecating, urination would bother people in 2015? I’m a nurse and seen my share of sputum, poo, urine and nudity but I still believe in standards for public conduct for the same reason I don’t want… Read more »

Water Cannon Boy
Water Cannon Boy
6 years ago

In Kroger’s yesterday. Looking at people, I started wondering how some people end up hooking up. That made me start thinking it really is a crazy thing that women have the nerve to criticize male desire. Re. formal dating-that’s been discussed for some time in various blogs and articles, about the lack of it. And I’m not necessarily talking about hook up culture. But just the regular “would you like to go out” form of dating. It has declined. And you probably won’t find many who will call it dates, or dating. It’ll be referred to as “are you talking… Read more »

bnon
bnon
6 years ago

Future prediction:

Google glass POV revenge porn.

:/

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

InsanityBytes / GG / yttik trots out the sisterhood’s standard line, “there is no sisterhood”. Science does not agree with her. But then, aging feminists are not exactly known for keeping up to date on reality. Evolutionary biology or 6-day creation or anything in between, all women are like that. And just about all of them naturally deny it, because a covert strategy like automatic in-group preference only works when it remains covert. Back in the 90’s I learned that the difference between the average soccer mommy and Monica Lewinsky was purely a matter of degree, and of course to… Read more »

Gunner Q
6 years ago

Tom K. @ August 25th, 2015 at 11:30 pm: “In maintaining his frame, a Christian man MUST, in this day and age, also bring back the practice of simple divorce. … It is true that Jesus said God never intended couples to divorce.” No, Jesus said divorce & remarriage was adultery unless adultery had already happened (Matt. 5:32). Don’t twist His words. “BUT he also said, “Because of the HARDNESS of your hearts Moses allowed that practice.” I’m sorry. When did the human heart become LESS hard?” The Jewish heart started becoming less hard after God killed off the entire… Read more »

Liz
Liz
6 years ago

“Every man wants a slut, he just wants her to be HIS slut.”

Indeed. How many of the women who dress slutty in public do so ONLY for “their man”?

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

I tried to embed a link and failed. Here it is, just for Bytes: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15491274 Funny how studying female in-group preference seems to have just…stopped. Like it’s forbidden knowledge, or something? Liz Indeed. How many of the women who dress slutty in public do so ONLY for “their man”? Well, they say so, I guess it must be true? Funny exchange back in the 90’s I was part of, some 22 year old chick got all worked up by the male gaze when she was wearing something skimpy at the beach. “I dress for my BOYFRIEND, not for CREEPERS to… Read more »

Liz
Liz
6 years ago

“Well, they say so, I guess it must be true?”

Preciso
(When adjusted for the apropos level of sarcasm that the question mark implies)

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Bytes: Stick it tomassi, you’re a waste of my time. Yet she keeps coming back. Some wonder why? Because the flip side of women’s ingroup preference is a fear of being tossed out, of being outgrouped. “Nobody likes your clothes” creates a ball of ice in a young woman’s guts. Bytes keeps telling Rollo she’s done with him, and in her stupid, ignorant, aging feminist brain that’s supposed to affect him. Because to stupid, ignorant aging feminists like Bytes men and women are the same. Bytes can’t understand this: nobody cares. Nobody cares what drivel she posts, nobody cares if… Read more »

Liz
Liz
6 years ago

Not long ago, I was at dinner with a “slut” (but only HIS slut!…er, today). She dressed like one, showed us her engagement ring and went on to show pictures of her riding a mechanical bull without underwear. I’m sure the guy was thinking, “That’s MY slut fellas! Aren’t I the lucky one?!”

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
6 years ago

@Water Cannon “Even hook ups usually don’t happen by way of asking somebody out. It’s happen as going to group function, somebody throwing a party. You meet there either by accident or you arrange it with vague indications of being there. You interact the same as the group hangout that’s not a formal date. Then the hook up happens when the two “end up at somebody’s room or apartment”. And that’s the thing that girls need to have. They need to be able to say that it just happened.” This is a big reason why I’ve been in a slump… Read more »

Liz
Liz
6 years ago

Lol Rollo.
There is some truth in that cartoon.

Divided Line
6 years ago

If it’s truly the case that 3rd wave slut walking sex positive feminism has brought about a pervasive hookup culture which has indoctrinated far more women into shamelessly riding the carousel than would otherwise have been true, then my guess is today’s army of sluts will become tomorrow’s army of prudish soccer moms. I’m not even sure to what degree cc riding has actually increased or if it isn’t simply more visible, but if it has, it’ll probably snap back like a rubber band once they all hit the wall. The born again soccer mom’s sexual puritanism will of course… Read more »

Fred Flange, Master of Spoons
Fred Flange, Master of Spoons
6 years ago

Well then – and since this is referenced over at Dalrock’s – maybe one of the sequelae of Dateless College and too-shy-to-approach Fearful Walking Dead beta males will be renewed “interest” or “resurgence” in so-called sexual fluidity among women, somewhat akin to the sexual fluidity among straight men locked in prison: they turn situationally gay as a coping reaction to their situation.

I know I know someone somewhere wrote about this:
http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/01/sexual-fluidity/

Dinner bet says: within 12 months, you will see a renaissance of Ti-Grace Atkinson’s famous second-wave prescription: “Feminism is the ideology. Lesbianism is the practice.”

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Liz There is truth in that cartoon. FIFY. No charge. When I was a younger man I disdained lingerie for the most part as unnecessary “icing”. Women north of 40 can use a little help psycholocially; even one in great shape after a kid still is affected by gravity and Advanced Glycation Endproducts (makes tissues less flexible). Properly used, lingerie can be like good stage lighting. It needs to be approached with the right frame, not the “Gah! Your tits sag, put this on!” but rather “You’ll look mighty hot in this, darlin’, just slip it on and come show… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Rollo

Why is God always a ‘He’? Lets change that,…

I predict changing God to be androgynous will work out as well as changing men to be androgynous has. Women won’t respect either.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago
Divided Line
6 years ago

In a traditionalist conception of gender relations, women abstain from sex while men qualify as worthy of it. The burden of performance on the male side is channeled into producing economic surplus, obeying authority figures, and arranging your whole life around providing for and protecting a family so that he becomes worthy of her all important vag. Does anybody really want to go back to this? If so, why? Because this state of affairs makes the ability of men to compete in a sexual marketplace dependent on economic, historical, and political forces that are often enough outside of his control.… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” . . . it’s time to rewrite a new version of the Bible with ‘gender neutral’ language.”

All praise Parental Unit Earth.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Forge – exactly.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@Divided Line I mostly agree. I think we need to remember that the sorts of advantages to the current system you’re talking about – the ability to pull yourself up by the bootstraps, freedom from (most) authority, etc – are things which are advantages of an individual-centric social model. That works well when the advantages of a collective-centric model – large, involved families, social support, strength in numbers, strong group identity – are less necessary. There are still tradeoffs, though, many of which we are unaware unless we happen to encounter people still living under a collectivist model. High rates… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

I’ll note that this trend to socializing in groups and the death of dating is a reversion to traditional methods of pairing off. It is the reason we have such things as the “debut,” the “social” and the “mixer.” Boys didn’t ask girls out to dance. Dances were arranged and supervised by adults, boys arrived as a group, girls as another group, and they arrayed themselves on opposite sides of the hall.

Dating is a mid 20th century social fad which overtly tossed out tradition.

Scott
Scott
6 years ago

Rollo-

Kind of interested in having an offline conversation (email). If you have time, write me at the email associated with this avatar. Take care.

Fred Flange, Master of Spoons
Fred Flange, Master of Spoons
6 years ago

And keeping our eyes on straight: we are speaking here of the great 80% of Fearful Walking Dead beta males and the women who (won’t) love them as comprising the dateless Groop minded helicopter sprogs. The 20% – the alphas, HB8’s and up and 24-Hour Party Poodles: are doing the Serious Fucking, appropriately Tinderized. Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was. PS to Approachers: A girlznboyz formless Groop can act as the cockblock to peeling off a member separately, though that is just a side effect of the Groop’s fear of the unknown (in this case you).… Read more »

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@kid ” I still don’t have a grasp on how to handle these cockblocking dudes, short of escalating to a confrontation.” yareally will have the latest set theory, and personally I think sets are the most fun. Lots out there on AMOG, such as: http://youtu.be/uLhEAFk7CA8 Never confrontational, never irritated, or anything defensive: I turn my chin music up And I’m puffing my chest I’m getting red in the face You can call me obsessed (Nick Jonas Jealous) For both sets and AMOG: easy going, calm, fun, witty, interesting, playful negs losing your target? When she is in mid-sentence walk away… Read more »

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

@divided.
Before the “ugly unattractive women’s revolution” , ugly women knew their place, they knew it was better to settle for any beta provisioning.
Ugly women were always careful not to test the alphas, ugly women were encouraged to be content marrying a poor beta.
Betas didn’t have to have lots of money to marry an (average looking) ugly women.
At the same time attractive women were married to rich alphas.
Ugly women need to be SMASHED and constantly reminded of the truth.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@Kid Jupiter “I have no problem approaching and engaging with younger women, but things have changed over the years with the younger women I look for (23-28 range). With most of them, seems everything has to be done in groups; it’s social circle game uber alles. And with groups come massive cockblocks. Other chicks are bad enough, but other guys are the bigger problem. I still don’t have a grasp on how to handle these cockblocking dudes, short of escalating to a confrontation. You’ll have an orbiter or two hovering who you can see from a mile away has been… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

” In a traditionalist conception of gender relations, women abstain from sex while men qualify as worthy of it. The burden of performance on the male side is channeled into producing economic surplus, obeying authority figures, and arranging your whole life around providing for and protecting a family so that he becomes worthy of her all important vag. Does anybody really want to go back to this? ” See, I don’t see ” traditional ” gender relations this way at all. Women try to abstain from sex while men ” pursue ” sex with women. The idea of ” qualifying… Read more »

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
6 years ago

Thanks, redlight. I’ll check out that video later when I have a minute. I think the biggest problem for me in those AMOG situations is keeping from losing my temper. It’s not because of jealousy, per the Nick Jonas lyrics, but because of anger. Guys like that need a good pummeling. I think it’s actually what they’re looking for, consciously or unconsciously.

Chris
Chris
6 years ago

“Problem is that the meaning of lust has been downgraded to include pretty much any hint of desire in the man.” Twice-born Christian since 1998, and you’re absolutely right. Most of this stems from a misinterpretation of Christ’s words about lust in the Sermon on the Mount. He was either refering to coveting another person’s spouse – it’s kinda hard to commit adultery with an unmarried person – or He was knocking the self-righteous, who were ALWAYS His target, off their moral high-horses. I actually walked away from God for years because the kind of genophobia the Evangelical movement propogates… Read more »

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@kid

“It’s not because of jealousy, per the Nick Jonas lyrics, but because of anger”

I wasn’t saying you’re jealous but the reason I quoted the song is to watch for the physical reaction (puffing chest, red face). If you slide towards anger your target will pick up on it. Put another way, you want the other guy to have the red face.

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

On sets, storytelling, exaggerate and spice as necessary You: … so the bear is advancing, and we are banging the pots, and Fred, god forgive him, he just pooped his pants, but it was 7 feet tall … Orbiter: black bears are never seven feet tall! You: that’s what we thought, but the park ranger says they eat so much junk food they get massive Orbiter 2: this is complete bullshit! You: You just had to be there, it was unreal, anyway, we get some lighter fuel … Remember you are the man with balls, most man don’t have the… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Chris -…The god of Islam may be that way, but not the real God.

Ummm, okay.

Instead of guessing, you may want to look before you make such comments. You said so many correct things, then you erased them all ( IMO ) by that parting shot against Islam.

Which brings me back to a prior point I made about man corrupting religion to be highly ( and selectively ) judgmental, when judgment is the job of God.

Yup, Jesus did go hard after the self righteous. Pause. Reflect.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

* For the record * I’m not particularly religious because people wear religion on their sleeves and attempt to use it to elevate themselves above others. I was born into a religion and when I became of age I extricated myself from that. I recall, fondly, being called a ” heathen ” after church services, in the church parking lot, by some nice, God fearing, Christian women, because I had long hair… – and this was after a really great service. I realized then that the WORD was not able to penetrate people’s hearts. My humble advice to people looking… Read more »

gunnerq
6 years ago

Divided Line @ 2:41 pm: “Does anybody really want to go back to this?” I do. “If so, why? Because this state of affairs makes the ability of men to compete in a sexual marketplace dependent on economic, historical, and political forces that are often enough outside of his control.” But he does get a woman, 95% guaranteed, and she is required to be loyal to him with no continued effort on his part. That frees him to do more important (and generally more satisfying) things than mastering Game and wondering when she’ll blow up his family out of boredom.… Read more »

Vitriol
Vitriol
6 years ago

@Divided Line “I’m not really sure how I feel about sluts anyway. I’m not interested in LTRs with women anymore. I don’t care about starting a family at this point in my life, so the easier it is to get laid, the better. What do I care?” I became a lot LESS frustrated with women when I stopped expecting them to be useful for monogamy or anything beyond sex. This might have been an easier pill for me to swallow because I never really wanted to get married, but other guys who want to take out a mortgage, start a… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@Vitriol

True. I mean, I believe men need fellowship (..odd word choice on my part ) and camaraderie, but in life a man must try not to blindly follow anything without using his own common sense and thought. Standing alone is a good way to phrase it.

A man must be comfortable in his own self.

Mr. Mitchell
Mr. Mitchell
6 years ago

Rollo, I noticed this tweet of yours:
“I’m confused, who’s flag are we supposed to take down now?”

Please, stick to Game and stay out of race baiting politics; Chateau Raciste’s blog sufficiently covers the race baiting in the manosphere.

Water Cannon Boy
Water Cannon Boy
6 years ago

@ Jupiter Kid “losing your target? When she is in mid-sentence walk away and chat up another girl” That’s the thing that some guys, especially college atmosphere, or even club atmosphere, can find themselves feeling like they messed up something, but didn’t do anything in particular, or don’t know what happened. You meet someone by chance or you do the vague “there’s a party at this location, you going? I might, maybe I’ll see there. Okay, maybe I will”. But anyway, she shows interest, you’re interested. Whether you were familiar with each other before hand or not, while at the… Read more »

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
6 years ago

Opus:- “I had no doubt whatsoever that females (and not males) were indeed objects of the greatest sexual interest.” Well that’s game set and match, old boy, because at @Er Indoorses’ (then ; some time subsequent to the Middle Bronze Age I am given to understand) all-girl St Trinians-style school in the middle of Kent, the house mistresses/senior teachers (bluestocking ladies all) were extraordinarily assiduous in constantly checking the older gels for signs of scoliosis (Dick Three Disease), lumbago, rickets, and for all I know the Plague itself. “Heavy breasts” were apparently a doomladen indication of Serious Measures having to… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@Tam the Bam

Your comments read like a banging good tale told in the language of a British slang phrasebook blended ’til smooth with the Silmarillion. I’m not quite sure what I just read, but I fucking love it.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

WCB: “As far as getting mad with male blockers, that is pointless. Check out Rollo’s “just get it” post. Rollo had a twitter converstion with a guy who said it was hard for him, being that the red pill exposes truth, to hide his disdain for the flaky things women do. And he expressed frustration that them seeing his disdain ceased all further interactions with them. The women went cold on him. But his problem was showing disdain. Because it pissed him off, he immediately shows the women he was talking to that he doesn’t get women. It also sent… Read more »

Vitriol
Vitriol
6 years ago

@Forge the Sky “It just struck me how sensitive ‘chemistry’ and the hamster can be to all sorts of tiny sub communications. I know Owen Cook emphasizes how much the tiny things that betray mindset make a difference. If I had been entranced by her – if this were an available HB9 – I would have been entranced, and likely would not have looked away. Interesting.” You seem to have some kind of really detached perspective on all of this, which can become dysfunctional (I know from experience). Do you want some pussy or do you want to type up… Read more »

Lucien
Lucien
6 years ago

@Tam the Bam

tl;dr

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@Vitriol Yeah, I specialize in a detached perspective. But I had a whole bunch of posts a few months back about present-ness in the current moment and detachment from mental processes as an essential component of charisma and ‘game.’ I think that a huge part of success with women is a genuine involvement in their current emotional reality, and a genuine participation in their fantasy of a high-value man falling for them. Many things cannot be faked readily. I consider it a central ‘game’ thesis of mine that you will only succeed when you roll back inhibitions on pre-existing sexual… Read more »

Badpainter
Badpainter
6 years ago

Forge The Sky – ” I remember nearly everything…. I can analyze things like this experience with the girl and discover all sorts of things, without having obsessed about it.”

I have the same problem. Good memory is a valuable tool, but often results in lot of retrospective navel gazing. Made me a good debater in HS and college, but can be a distraction now. Finding a proper balance, much like your exercise regime, I find is achieved through repetition of whatever until the action is automatic.

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
6 years ago

I’ve noticed that a few things are changing within me. I am calm in new situations I am not familiar with. I learn game better by listing. What a great read.

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
6 years ago

@Rollo Jail and churches Porn and admitting to viewing it never admitting to it… That’s familiar http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6P1_qp8nYO8 Was thinking about your post on Buffers and realized I still got many of those I need to get over. It’s a huge issue that pulls me back into blue pill thinking as well as setting up the target than shooting at it. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cypDr9JwhWQ Also school was being feminized but it felt more reliable than my home because my mom ruled with her emotional rage over my farther. At school I could see nature for what nature was. At home I was told… Read more »

Cem from Turkey
Cem from Turkey
6 years ago

So Don Tomassino,

I couldn’t help but ask: if the nature has by default hardwired female brain in a way to gravitate toward dominant, rugged, untameable badboy persona, then why it did not equip male brain automatically with sufficient arsenal (red pill understanding) for it to have equal footing? Since the ultimate end in human mating is the successful transfer of genes to the next generation, men, according to red pill, are born with a disadvantage. God does not play dice. So what would be the explanation?

Liz
Liz
6 years ago

“It’s funny to read women write what they think men think about themselves: http://therationalmale.com/2015/01/23/arm-candy/“ I’m not sure if this post was directed toward me. If so: 1) That was sarcasm, I don’t think the guy was super-excited that his fiance was flashing everyone pussy pictures of herself at the dinner table. 2) I know what everyone else was thinking (my husband, and three other guys who were single at the table), because they told me later. It was particularly embarassing for me, since I’d been the one to invite her (not expecting she had no social filter whatsoever). 3) It… Read more »

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

then why it did not equip male brain automatically with sufficient arsenal (red pill understanding) for it to have equal footing?

Personally, not having to suppress my masculinity and being proud of being a man feels much more natural than my blue pill existence. I spent my blue pill days playing by the rules, and watching the girls respond to the guys that didn’t. It was incredibly frustrating. I think it’s just a testament to how elastic our brains are and our susceptibility to being brainwashed (or acculturated if you like that word better.)

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
6 years ago
Reply to  Andy

@Andy
Me to brother me to… That’s what drove me to the red pill. Because it was never ending and enforced by my blue pill farther. So I didn’t speak I just didn’t play by the same set of rules imposed an me that didn’t work in the real world.

Bromeo
Bromeo
6 years ago

“then why it did not equip male brain automatically with sufficient arsenal (red pill understanding) for it to have equal footing?”

It did, they are called natural alpha’s.

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

Yeah, DNA trumps culture. Always has, always will.

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

Generally, boys are born with all the Red Pill bravado, cockiness, deductive reasoning and irrational self-confidence needed for an Alpha mindset. So true. I have two young boys. They fight, they compete, they have contests to see who has the most intimidating death growl. Every game is good vs. evil and evil seems to be the preferred side. They yell out commands to their mother instead of asking. Every toy is not the toy itself, but an imaginary weapon. My wife’s first instinct is to think she has given birth to two mass murderers. I constantly have to show her… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

I feel sorry for all your Christian men. As an atheist and a devout hedonist, the obvious response is to adapt to our new circumstances. Women are screaming “FUCK ME” and they are now being trained to act this way as soon as they hit puberty. Perfect, I’ve always wanted to fuck more and more women. Sure, you have to get buff and put on some nice clothes and activate their fantasy hamster and actually embrace being masculine fully – all shit any man can do with a year or two of sustained effort and learning. Christians suffer from what… Read more »

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