That was then

wait_for_me

Rollo Tomassi confession time: There was a time when I was in my late teens to right before I was 21 when I would’ve easily married one of my first LTR girlfriends. My Beta conditioned state of mind was such then that I would’ve launched headlong into what would surely have been a tragic marriage based on Blue Pill naiveté and changing the course of my life.

I made a special effort to cover the commonalities of this period in what I called the Break Phase in my second book and from the Preventive Medicine series of posts. It’s a dangerous time for young men feminized and conditioned to put women’s imperatives, ambitions and support above their own. This eagerness to please and put off his own future ambitions (the ones he allows himself to entertain) is the result of an acculturation process that prioritizes identification with the feminine and sacrificial supportiveness of any woman’s ambition he may be paired with during these ages.

Often this is the first time in his life he has the real opportunity to prove his dedication to a girlfriend by arranging his life around her goals – goals that are based on her own acculturation of female empowerment and entitlement. Sometimes this drive comes from a young man wanting to out-support the performance his father dismally failed at with his victimized mother, but mostly it comes from a thorough Blue Pill conditioning that assures him the old set of books are the rule set women can be expected to follow.

This is the crux of it; he is at his most eager to please while she is just coming into realizing what her sexual market value peak can leverage for her. Don’t assume that this leveraging is strictly based on securing things for herself, but rather what her impulses are leading her to. The time at which young men are their most ready to be “the perfect boyfriend / husband” is usually when young women want monogamy the least. Young men’s Blue Pill idealism is generally unblemished by having it betrayed at this point.

When I was passing through this time I was ready to suspend, postpone or simply abandon the ambitions I wanted for myself then just for the prospect of securing a girlfriend, wife, LTR, stable and lively source of sex and intimacy.

How could I not? I’d been conditioned my whole life up to that point to believe in the Disney fairytale that had me believe if I could just do more for a woman, be more like a woman, be sensitive to her feelings, and do everything in my very limited power to help her achieve her dreams she would appreciate the effort and the sacrifice and reciprocate with her own genuine love, sex and devotion to me.

Naturally the Blue Pill had convinced me that men and women shared a mutual concept of love and that my burden of performance was only based on how well I could help a woman rise above the horrible injustices that my poisoned gender had ruthlessly perpetrated on womankind in the centuries before I was born.

I’m thankful I was spared from the worst consequences of that delusion. I know too many men today who did just what I would’ve then. Most are on their 2nd or 3rd marriage, with kids from the first or second and still wondering how it went so wrong for them. They all either forced that fantasy to happen for themselves or paired with a girl who simply hadn’t come to understand her SMV during that period before she said “I do.” Almost to the man, these men’s wives went through what I describe in Making Up for Missing Out.

It’s not to say that I didn’t take the sting of rejection during that time, but I’m glad to have been rejected in light of so many men’s experiences for making their Blue Pill dreams come true.

Wait For Me

It’s ironic that the time at which young men are most eager to put on the yoke of what the Blue Pill has conditioned them for is the same time women want it the least. As I mentioned in Dream Killers:

The truth however is that the longer you remain uncommitted, the more opportunities will be available to you. It’s been stated by wiser Men than I that women are dream-killers – and while I agree with this, I’d say this is due more to the man involved, and their own complicity and apathy, than some grand scheme of women.

[…]Women are dream killers. Not because they have an agenda to be so, but because men will all too willingly sacrifice their ambitions for a steady supply of pussy and the responsibilities that women attach to this.

I recently read a forum post from a young man who was lamenting his ‘friend zone’ state with a girl. I had to laugh because I’d heard his ONEitis girl’s exact same words, verbatim, when I was about 19 or 20. She said to him,

“You’re such a great guy, but I’m not ready for a relationship right now. How about this, if neither of us is married when we’re 30 we’ll get married, ok?”

Hearing this negotiation now at 47 I have to laugh sardonically; it’s the same ‘deal’ I’d been offered at 20. At 47 I can see the machinations behind it – “Hey Beta chump, I like your dedication to the Disneyland narrative, and you’ll make for a dutiful and lucrative supporter once I’m 30 and done with the Alphas I really want to fuck while I’m in my prime, so how about you and I get married once I’m ready to finally ‘get it right with the right guy who was there all along’ okay?”

In other words, wait for me and be my Plan B guy just in case, ok?

What makes this unfunny is that at 20, young men want to believe the best of women. They want to believe she really thinks he’s so special she wont be able to not marry him and fulfill his Beta programming at 30,…so long as he’s patient. He wants to believe her earnestness because to do otherwise would be to judge her, and that, he’s been taught, is the worst thing a man can do no matter what choices she makes. What makes it unfunny is he actually considers it as a viable option for his life.

What also makes it unfunny is that on some level of consciousness this negotiation, this very long game, is something a woman pre-plans in her head. She knows at 20 years old that she’ll need her Beta-in-waiting. It’s not serendipity that she’ll find a Beta ready to out-support and out-forgive the other guys of her “crazy mixed up past” or her “journey of self-discovery”, no, she has it planned a decade before. It may not be a conscious acknowledgement at the time, but the expectation is there long before she comes into her SMV peak and the years just before her Epiphany Phase.

Beta Idealists and the Endgame

But at the time, young men want to believe it. There’s a certain satisfaction in the prospect that the ‘happily ever after’ will be fulfilled in the future. Of course during that time it’s vital a man disabuse himself of that fantasy, become Red Pill aware and see the ‘deal‘ for what it really is – an insult to him.

For my part that came from not wanting to wait around and learning how to get laid like I wanted to. That period of my life had some great moments as well as some pit of misery ones, but I learned, I grew; and had that girl actually been unmarried at 30 instead of a divorced single mother of two when I got there, I still wouldn’t have married her.

It’s an insult to a man’s masculine nature because it presumes he’d in any way be an attractive choice for his steadfastness. Any guy who’d even entertain the insult only confirms his Beta, optionless and destitute status to a woman who’s already planning to follow the dictates of her Hypergamy. He’s the sure thing, and his Blue Pill conditioning would convince him that his burden of performance is predicated on his perseverance, when in fact it just verifies him as a guy who Just Doesn’t Get It.

Again from Dream Killers:

I tend to promote the idea that Men should be sexually and emotionally non-exclusive until age 30, but this is a minimal suggestion. I think 35 may even serve better for Men. The importance being that as a Man ages and matures in his career, his ambitions and passions, his personality, his ability to better judge character, his overall understanding of behavior and motivations, etc. he becomes more valuable to the most desirable women and therefore enjoys better opportunity in this respect. Women’s sexual value decreases as they age and it’s at this point the balance tips into the maturing Man’s favor. It’s the Men who realize this early and understand that bettering themselves in the now will pay off better in the future while still enjoying (and learning from) the opportunities that come from being non-exclusive and non-commital make him a Man that women will compete for in the long term.

One of the first things I have to explain to a young guy about the Red Pill is that what he believes is so vitally important to him in the now will be rendered meaningless in only a few years. I can only try to explain to him how his idealism about holding together his now long distance relationship with his high school girlfriend will change and decay, but at this age and with his Blue Pill conditioning it’s very hard to communicate.

The Break Phase is an all or nothing prospect when it comes to helping a young man unplug himself. Unfortunately it usually takes the trauma of a breakup (made all the worse due to his investment in a Blue Pill fantasy) and confronting the reality his girlfriend is experiencing in college and her coming into her peak SMV years.

What he lacks is the insight and experience to fully grasp his situation. One reason the Sandbergian plan for Hypergamy reaches its limit around a woman’s Epiphany Phase is because it’s at this critical point that a man can more or less be expected to be a better judge of a woman’s character – or at least that’s the anxiety that the Wall engenders in women.

This point also coincides with a woman’s SMV decaying, whilst his is on the ascent to being realized. There’s a lot riding for her on a man remaining ignorant of the Game that’s been played for the past decade. Ironically it’s this same ignorance, the one she needs him to retain for so long, that makes him unattractive and ultimately unsuitable as long term prospect she can be aroused by or respect.

Thus we see the infancy of this anxiety in her earlier years when she asks her “perfect boyfriend” to wait for her until she’s ready for him to serve her necessity. She plans ahead with the ending in mind.

 

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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donalgraeme
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“You’re such a great guy, but I’m not ready for a relationship right now. How about this, if neither of us is married when we’re 30 we’ll get married, ok?” It won’t surprise you or most of your readers, Rollo, to know that I’ve heard almost the exact same thing verbatim from Christian women in that age bracket. Some of the ones that I’ve heard say it I think were serious about avoiding fornication. They just had other plans to have fun and “live for themselves.” If anything, I think that Christian women are more likely to plan and plot… Read more »

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[…] By Rollo Tomassi […]

T.Stark
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T.Stark
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Being 35 now, thank god i didnt get married (or have kids) and only had 2 committed LTRs, both sucking badly. I had women lining me up when I was late 20s to be their BB Husband but I guess my instincts at the time made me run. Like your book stated, I literally got crushed when I was 31 and that ripped me out of the matrix because nothing made sense. Had a red pill mentor that let me go in the correct direction and nudged me slightly if I started being retarded. Now being 35 (single, career, no… Read more »

ghersolas
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ghersolas
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“You’re such a great guy, but I’m not ready for a relationship right now. How about this, if neither of us is married when we’re 30 we’ll get married, ok?”

My (hungarian-turned-american) single-mommy-strrripper-roommate just said that a month ago to me, on her 26th birthday (minus the tying-of-the-knot) hahaha oh boy, i brought it up again.. she said she would want to live together to raise a child.. platonically…

I started laughing and told her “youre out of your mind”

ChocDoc
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M MAXIM #35: “Men remember being boys. Man has a lucid perspective in comparing the diminished affection of his adulthood to the greater bounty of his childhood. Women do not experience such a significant loss of affection. As such, man is forced to realise he will never again be loved so profusely, for the boy gets his fill, but man loves the most to be loved the least. The profundity of maternal love is longed for, but forever gone. A girlfriend cannot provide that and is loathed to do so should a weak man demand it. This is perhaps the… Read more »

ChocDoc
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ChocDoc
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The Times of your childhood and early adulthood are so important…one mistake in that special time of a men’s life and everything get’s fucked up.

BigAl
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Im 25 and have been spinning plates for a while. Ive got an awesome girl right now, the first one out of the last 30 or so that I actually view as a wonderful human being (while still remaining cognizant of AWALT). Its a red pill conundrum for me to decide when to “cash out”. I avoid oneitis and game successfully. Seems like most guys are happier waiting until late 30s to have kids if they want to. The only thing that has been bitter for me about the red pill is letting good women go, when the time comes… Read more »

gunner451
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Man this constantly hits home, just had a friend cancel a wedding at the last minute (cost them, the parents, $20,000) because their daughter decided at the last minute to back out because she wants to “find herself”. She has been in a LTR with her now ex-future husband since she was 15 (pretty sure he took her virginity) but decided now 8 years later after just graduating from college that it’s time to make up for lost time and hit the alpha cock carousel. Kind of surprised me … but should not have. What I do not see in… Read more »

Akademik supastar
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In addition to being on a steady diet of blue-pill courtesy of their parents and greater social group, which even if they end up ignoring, the young man of today must prepare for the ritualistic drowning in the modern blue-pill indoctrination center that is the modern university. A one-two punch if you will, which few men can escape from unscathed at such a young age. If current trends are extrapolated even conservatively, the succession and speed of punches a young man must dodge is consistently increasing.

Sam Botta (@sambotta)
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Every male must see the ‘deal‘ for what it really is – an insult to him

Without “The Rational Male” book volumes, he will not know.

Today, millions of men are aware because of Rollo Tomassi.

But there are billions more males that do not
see the ‘deal‘ for what it really is – an insult to him

Time to fix that.

Badpainter
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Badpainter
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“Im more concerned about starting a family too late because my father didn’t have me until he was 45. Now he’s too old to do much of anything…timing is everything I suppose.” The younger guys here need to read this over and over and over again. I, as the 44 year old late comer to all this, am well and truly fucked as far as the family thing goes, and without that there is no point to an LTR/marriage. As well, for the whole spinning plates/STR thing the reality is younger women are not on the whole interested in older… Read more »

Tilikum
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One of the only times where forward time orientation and abstract thought is evident in females is when it comes to resource procurement.

RedPillPaul
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@Gunner
Its seige war fare. Is a race to the
bottom. Who ever wants it more loses.

How you describe it, its already planned.option 3 is the lesser of the evils. The women continue what they do in thier FI and hope you are so hungry and that there are enough women that follow the same strategy that you break and go for option 2.
With the game set and parameters you elude to, adjusting a mans choices (option 3) makes the game gets to a point where its not a 30yo women but now a 40, 50, 60, ect…

Its seige warfare.

Tilikum
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I’ll say it again. Younger guy today (18 and older) needs to plan on 3 LTR’s and at least a child from each. At 18, find a lawyer you trust who is young (and can stay with you for quite a while) as well, and keep him on a retainer. Best money ever spent. Cease worrying about how you will be judged because A. don’t matter B. you will not win and be seen as a shithead no matter what C. refer to A and B above Think generationally FORWARD as opposed to behind you. Generals are always fighting the… Read more »

D. Horrenbrand
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Funny, I just posted one dedicated to similar topic.

https://redmalehummingbird.wordpress.com/2015/07/20/my-first-love/

__
Datson H.

amusedmastery
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At 45, you can still easily have a family but you need to get your ass to Eastern Europe. At 40, I’m still banging 20 somethings but I see your point for the most part. These girls are feral cats that bounce from Alpha to Alpha. LTRs with them are ridiculous so get a couple bangs and hit the next alley/dumpster to find more. Stay far away from any broad over 30 as you are spot on.

kfg
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kfg
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” . . . the time comes to stay focused on my mission. When do you stop doing that? ”

You can sleep when you’re dead.

corypheus
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It’s amazing how the gender flipped version of this I’ve never heard of happening. Anyone know any guys who said to a female friend “if I’m not married at 30 let’s get married”?

Imagine what would be going on in the typical young girl’s mind if she heard that.

Forge the Sky
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@Tilikum

One of the only times where forward time orientation and abstract thought is evident in females is when it comes to resource procurement.”

As with logic, women are perfectly capable of forward time orientation. And they use it only when advantageous to themselves.

Men will only abandon either when to have them is disadvantageous.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Is the girl seriously expecting him to wait for her for 10 years? Or is she just politely dropping him without totally crushing his hopes and expecting him to get over her over time and move on?

Forge the Sky
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I remember this dynamic well. Part of it is wishful thinking, part of it is the nervousness of a young man unsure of his ability to make choices or be decisive. He wishes some girl could do the work for him, or at least share it. The Disney Princess narrative feeds upon the wishful thinking, feminism fuels the wish for a girl to be decisive so he doesn’t have to. One of the things that attracted me to my old one-itis was the sense that she was a take-charge, decisive sort of person. She liked to give off that vibe,… Read more »

Dreamer
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I’m pretty much echoing gunner451, I think. But I want to put it in my word and a few thoughts. First, is the implication of marriages (or at least the couples who married later, still stayed together all that time) people praised of those married young and lasted (and lasted well). If my comprehension is correct, those marriages and relationships sounds impossible. Do you imply that they are an illusion (as in they don’t exist and the ones we praised when we hear and see are just fake – this would means couples we praised of the “old days” as… Read more »

BigAl
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@kfg Agreed. That wasn’t worded well. I mean stop hoarding all my money and being 100 percent focused on my career/being a Don Juan haha. I know they say “to the victor goes the spoils” and that men always have to adapt to win (have children in this instance). Im curious to hear more about people’s decisions of when they rationally decided to settle down and marry to raise a family. Not something Ive seen in the sphere yet. Like what made Rollo decide to stop spinning plates and finally settle down, just a gut feeling about the woman? If… Read more »

amusedmastery
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This article sparked a memory that I had long forgotten…My LTR at 21 turned to me one day out of the blue and said, “I wish we would have met at 30.” I didn’t understand what the hell she was talking about as we were talking marriage and the whole bit. I was getting by on good looks and some Alpha characteristics but had no clue the Rules had changed. This was the mid 90’s, btw, and you could still throw out some provider game without screwing yourself completely. Shortly thereafter she detonated the engagement and said she needed to… Read more »

Amit
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Amit
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Heard those words exactly too…

anonymous
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anonymous
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This article, like everything Rollo writes, is so on point it’s not even funny.

J N
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J N
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I made lots of such “deals” with various friends when I was in my late teens/early 20s. It was effectively a way to hold out a promise to marry a girl that you knew you’d never have to actually follow through on – sort of in lieu of being official boyfriend/girlfriend.

kfg
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@Big Al: “That wasn’t worded well.”

I also quoted very selectively.

“Im curious to hear more about people’s decisions of when they rationally decided to settle down and marry to raise a family. ”

Never. It is a distinctly irrational decision. Bear in mind also that while you may be able to raise a family, you cannot have one. The family, such as it is, is hers.

BigAl
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BigAl
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Very true kfg, no air tight prenup can change that either.

Thanks for the link Rollo

redlight
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@gunner451 1:47pm “What I do not see in this article though is a solution, sure a guy may hit his peak at 35 and can snag (if he plays his cards right) a much younger woman for a LTR/marriage. But if he runs the same risk that happened with my friends in that the woman, up until she hits the wall, can at any time bail (with cash and prizes) and there is not a thing you can do about it.” The only reason to get married is to have kids, and this means right away, honeymoon sex is for… Read more »

lh
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corypheus July 20th, 2015 at 3:28 pm “It’s amazing how the gender flipped version of this I’ve never heard of happening. Anyone know any guys who said to a female friend “if I’m not married at 30 let’s get married”?” Now tell me whether I’m fucked up, but I did long ago, only it was age 40. I forgot it already, but she reminded me a few weeks ago when we talked about my birthday, so we are still friends. At that time I was deeply BP but had already discovered something was wrong and I wasn’t interested. I don’t… Read more »

theasdgamer
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As well, for the whole spinning plates/STR thing the reality is younger women are not on the whole interested in older men,* the few that are will be highly sought after

About 25% will prefer older men, 25% same age, and the rest don’t care. It’s a big pool. I’m considerably older than you are and I get IOI’s all the time from 30ish women.

10x10
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“About 25% will prefer older men, 25% same age, and the rest don’t care. It’s a big pool. I’m considerably older than you are and I get IOI’s all the time from 30ish women.” That’s for short term sex not for long term relationships. The number of young Anglo-American women interested in an LTR with a man significantly older than her is relatively small. There’s no way around the fact that if you want to wait till your late 30s early 40s to marry an early 20s girl, you had better be very rich, have great genetics, age well, have… Read more »

redlight
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@10×10 5:31pm

“The number of young Anglo-American women interested in an LTR with a man significantly older than her is relatively small”

based on what?

theasdgamer
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LTRs are for Blue Pillers and betas. I did the “get married while stupid” thing once. Never again.

Badpainter
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Badpainter
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“LTRs are for Blue Pillers and betas.”

Which makes Rollo….?

Opus
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Opus
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Oddly I have only heard it once – back in the mid-70s – and not addressed to me. A presentable woman aged about forty with whom I must have worked was saying in a group that she had a wonderful husband but wish that they had met later. I was not really in any doubt as to what she was implying and thus I thought she might be on for some extra-curricula sex.

theasdgamer
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BP, I have no doubt that Rollo would label himself “beta” at this point, since he wants a family. I’m an empty nester, but I’m not ready to abandon Mrs. Gamer. Too much history and she gave me her best sex. She can also make some tasty sammiches. Call me “beta” too.

Heywood Jablome
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@Forge The Sky:

As with logic, women are perfectly capable of forward time orientation. And they use it only when advantageous to themselves.
Men will only abandon either when to have them is disadvantageous.

Pithy. I’m going to remember that one.

A.F.O.R.
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A.F.O.R.
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Off topic but Rollo (And other commentators), have you any advice on dealing with girls who end up getting clingy?

Turns out even my mediocre game has had some effect…

sjfrellc
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A.F.O.R,

Chateau Heartiste had several suggestions in a reader mailbag answer. letter #4 here:

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2015/07/10/reader-mailbag-social-media-seductress-tricks/

A.F.O.R.
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A.F.O.R.
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Much obliged, sjfrellc

dexteranddeedee
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At first I thought Rollo was condemning himself. Then I realised it’s about knowing what your doing.LTRs are mostly for women.We majorly want sex and kids.Since sex is so easy,do it only for the kids.I would add that its stupid to marry someone who took onother’s stick for whatever reason,but I guess I’d be condemning many of y’all.3.5 billion women can’t all be non-virgins in their prime.After the hussle of becoming highest value in your thirtees,next remains the hassle of choosing an actual wife.I’ll never marry a slut,no matter how much “that’s just the way it is” red pill is… Read more »

Aidin
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Aidin
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Im glad I found Rollo and this blog at this young age(21). It has changed and altered my life completely. I’ve left college, moved out and broke up with my girlfriend in the matter of a week. I want to share a few words here. You know what bothers me most about my past? It’s not destructive relationships, my lack of ‘getting it’ with girls etc. What frustrates me the most is that I gave up my passion and wasted my talent in sports in order to pursue an education – a path of live that was steered toward achieving… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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As the Chicks Suck Guy once explained to a girl on his rejecting her similar offer: “Let’s say you like peanut butter. I mean you really like peanut butter and want some right now. But you’ve got none in your pantry at the moment. You go to a store to look for peanut butter, but they’re fresh out. You hit another store, same story. You hit a third store and they have peanut butter but they’re only selling it to someone else right now. If you’ll just stick around long enough though, they might like you enough to let you… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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Her version:

“That’s a sweet offer, but to tell you the truth, I really don’t like your peanut butter very much. I’m going around town to sample peanut butter, but I’ll tell you what, if I can’t find any I like, I’ll come back and steal yours. K?”

Highwasp
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[“Im curious to hear more about people’s decisions of when they rationally decided to settle down and marry to raise a family. ”] “…Bear in mind also that while you may be able to raise a family, you cannot have one. The family, such as it is, is hers.” uh huh – my One True Love made the ‘choice’ for me – The LTR [Long Term Relationship] at 23 took ‘my’ seed and decided to gestate and birth ‘my’ child then leave me for the next best man – repeatedly – forwarding addresses back to me along with the Child… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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“In any other context, this sort of deal would sound completely ridiculous.”

And in the present context it is deeply insulting.

Red-adherent
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I always hated this type of shit when girls said stuff like this to me. But I never knew why until I found the manosphere. I actually thought I was crazy or something like “why doesn’t everybody else get offended by this stuff.”

Thanks god I had enough self respect to tell these bitches to fuck off.

Rollo you are the source man. I feel like out of everybody in the manosphere you bring the message with the most clarity and without any hate.

Georgethegreek
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Georgethegreek
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Rollo, on to your point about the Beta waiting for “his woman” to come around at 30 … How do you describe the dynamic when the beta suddenly pulls away, gets annoyed with the games, and all of a sudden the woman wants to be with him? Can a beta running away speed up a woman’s end game per se? Or does his pulling away and ability to do his own thing show enough alpha qualities to peak her interest? Its interesting that often the backup plan becomes the only plan she wants as soon as he leaves, regardless of… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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If you ain’t worth her time right this second, then she ain’t worth your time ever.

Mr T
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Mr T
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DO NOT GET MARRIED.
Don’t do it if you’re 25 or 35 or 45.
The system is beyond repair.
Even if you find the “unicorn” don’t do it.
A virgin is not a guaranteed loyalty , that virgin will one day peek out through the window.
Use game, use prostitutes, use anything to get fucked but never commit.
Women marry betas (sorry folks) and fuck or fantasize about tingle guy.
Do you want to experience the first true nature of women? Try to stop the burden of performance with your Mama.
Ps
Don’t dwell about the nature of women, it is what it isn’t.

Longgone
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Sun,

“If you ain’t worth her time right this second, then she ain’t worth your time ever.”

The best test anytime by any man, for any woman, any age, any time. (Now if I could just stick to it.)

Scribblerg,
Somebody forgot to flush…last thread, 6:23…. sorry.

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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Rollo, you’re about to be very busy with the chumps that played second choice, sir.

37 million accounts. That’s 10% of the US population. Incoming Divorcalypse.

Sun Wukong
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Highwasp
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Longgone: Somebody forgot to flush…last thread, 6:23…. sorry.


= “Let’s you and him fight” ~ Lonegong

“Swallow”.

Chad
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Chad
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(This may be a re-post since my first one didn’t go through or got stuck in moderation.) Once again, “Women are the only realists; their whole object in life is to pit their realism against the extravagant, excessive, and occasionally drunken idealism of men.” by G.K. Chesterton comes to mind here. I knew women were very calculative and different from men in terms of short-term/long-term mating when I had my first fling in college sober(!). We literally met in the library and met two more times there before i fucked her in the parking garage. I knew that If I… Read more »

Chad
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Chad
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almost forgot to post this Alpha Widow gem I saw on tumblr:

http://www.thewhitereview.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Johnny-Winona1.jpg

DeNihilist
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Sounds aboot right Chad. Kinda makes me smirk when I think of Roosh claiming to be alphapha, but then stating that he doesn’t care if the broad he’s with enjoys the sex. Too many supposed alphapha’s like this, can talk great but fuck like shit. No woman getting laid by a guy like this will ever put him in a Winona Light.

redlight
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redlight
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@DeNihilist 10:24

chart doesn’t do gender/age

Dale
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Dale
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I didn’t tell her, but I pretty much did the “I’ll marry you when I’m thirty” to a woman; and proposed to someone else at 28, who turned me down. I proposed to the “when I’m 30 woman” whne I was 30, and got turned down.

redlight
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redlight
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@Dale 12:11

no need to brag about it, some of us idiots got married

DeNihilist
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Redlight, gender is a meaningless social construct, but you already knew that!

. But the chart does show age. the “best” age to marry, for less chance of divorce is late 20’s to really early thirties.

You’re welcome.

Dreamer
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Dreamer
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@DeNihilist That article is nice except for a few problems. First, the low point seems to be around 28 or 29 rather than the bare minimum of 30 nor 35. Keep in mind that anyone who does get married should know that person longer than a few months, ideally years. So getting married at 35 still entails knowing someone at 32 or something, at least. Second, it’s the WaPo. A site the manosphere has repeatedly bashed for the feminist line and make anything they write suspect inclduing this one even though (I think you are spinning) to support Rollo. Why?… Read more »

stuttie
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stuttie
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Her – ” You’re such a great guy, but I’m not ready for a relationship right now. How about this, if neither of us is married when we’re 30 we’ll get married, ok?”

You – “Yeah totally! In fact, marrying when we’re 30 might be rushing in to things. How about this, if neither of us is in a relationship when we’re 75 we’ll move into the retirement home together and be bridge partners, ok?”

Or just burst out laughing and walk away.

walawala
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walawala
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I have a question more than a comment. There are girls who at some point suddenly flip. They display Cluster B traits, but one of the biggest “obstacles” to moving forward with these types of girls is their insistence that: “I need someone to take care of me”. “I won’t be this good looking forever and need someone who will take care of me…” That sort of thing. When I hear this…I shut off and disappear for a few weeks and it’s usually the beginning of the end of this relationship. I don’t know how to handle this better or… Read more »

Sam Botta (@sambotta)
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The age’s between 27 and 30 are subliminally the most stressful for women as the realization sinks in that they must trade their ‘party years’ short term mating protocol for a long term provisioning strategy. It’s at this point that rationalizations of ‘living a new life’ or ‘getting right with herself’ begin to formulate; not as a result of guilt or conviction per se, but rather as a function of relieving the anxieties associated with the new reality that she will eventually no longer be able to compete effectively in the SMP. The writing’s on the Wall; either she must… Read more »

Thelien
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Thelien
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@Chad “Once again, “Women are the only realists; their whole object in life is to pit their realism against the extravagant, excessive, and occasionally drunken idealism of men.” by G.K. Chesterton comes to mind here.” Nice. He wrote many wise things. I remember a likewise saying by Tolkien: “It inculcates exaggerated notions of ‘true love’, as a fire from without, a permanent exaltation, unrelated to age, childbearing, and plain life, and unrelated to will and purpose. (One result of that is to make young folk look for a ‘love’ that will keep them always nice and warm in a cold… Read more »

just getting it
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just getting it
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Talking of women planning ahead; one of your much older posts had a real golden comment in it – I’ve tried to find it again but haven’t turned it up:

A trainee doctor was pretending to be a military contractor to get girls – when she found out his status she says “I’d never have slept with you straight away if I’d known”. Absolute money shot.

Shame you can’t search comments – it was a joy to read.

Mark Minter
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Imma play devil’s advocate here. I had much the same situation happen to me, getting locked to a relationship at 18. I got a Whif of Jif and went all just like described above. I was lucky enough to be somewhat of fuck up and had to go in the Marines. And that was like a warehouse that stored me until a later time. I had written all this up and I inadvertently learned some magic keystroke combination that said “Delete everything and redraw the page.” So it pissed me off and I don’t want to retype it all. But… Read more »

Onder
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Onder
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The article is spot on. When I was 25, my gf at the time who was 18 decided getting more and more distant towards me, until she decided to break up over the phone; suggesting we go our separate ways, “Sample other fruits” (Her words) and maybe meet up again in the near future if our planets align, which I’m sure they will when she’s decayed and past her prime. It was the catalyst that took me on the epic journey that has made me transform into the man that I am now at 31. I made a promise to… Read more »

TheLastCoyote
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TheLastCoyote
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Good post Rollo. Haven’t read all the comments yet, but here goes… I get why it sounds good in theory to wait until you’re 35 or so to commit, but the reality is more complicated. I got married at 32, kiddos were born at 34 and 36. Pros and cons to this timeline (hell, pros and cons to having gotten married in the first place). Bottom line is I’ll be 54 or 55 by the time my youngest graduates HS. Still plenty of life to live at that point, but won’t have the kind of time frame my parents had… Read more »

BuenaVista
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BuenaVista
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Dr. Helen has a post up today on how “research” shows that marriages undertaken in the early 30’s last longer. I asserted the research is fatuous because divorce dynamics are not equal for men and women. IOW, women trigger most divorces. The study therefore depicts which cohort of women, not men *and* women, are most likely to divorce. The married men are just along for the ride. By waiting until they’re in SMP decline, these 30-something women lean in and scoop up their beta drafthorse. The women have more opportunity to do due diligence on the best available choice, and… Read more »

Onder Hassan
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Onder Hassan
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You’re spot on BuenaVista. There’s really no winner at the end of this.
The only way you can secure a marriage is if she’s way past her prime or has very few options as far as her smv can provide for her.

In effect, you have to marry down in order to get the peace of mind you’re looking for, which still isn’t guaranteed considering how divorces favour women most of the time as well as having access to the welfare state.

In effect, we’re screwed whichever way we go.

Johnycomelately
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Johnycomelately
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As a beta bucks guy with an alpha fucks brother I’ll give a tip to the younger guys to spot female beta bucks seduction. The female beta bucks crocodile death roll seduction is balls to the wall neotenous behaviour, low energy, demure, drawn out softer speech, withdrawn posture, humility, lowered eyes, deferential, chase me behaviour and practically shouts out ‘take care of me’. It’s like cat nip to betas. Contrast this with alpha fucks arousal, high energy, quick speech, eye contact, fun, giggling, proactive, engaging, talkative, spontaneous and practically shouts out fuck me. It’s truly an eye opener to watch… Read more »

theasdgamer
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Johnny, I agree partially. I’ve seen times where a woman will give mixed signals–she can’t figure out whether to pursue AF or BB. And a man’s marital status matters along with the environment. A woman generally won’t overtly chase a married man in her social circle. In a club, she might behave very differently away from her friends.

Forge the Sky
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Forge the Sky
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@Johnycomelately Haha, exactly. I’ve only recently realized that women behave seductively to both alphas and betas, with different intentions. That shit works too. For the longest time I fell for it, if I started pulling out of beta orbit with my old one-itis she would turn up the childlike chase-me seductive behaviors and I’d just be like, ‘huh, maybe my ALPHA ALOOFNESS worked! Maybe I still have a chance!’ Or just, ‘Look how cute she’s being, I’m getting teh MEGAFEELZ.’ Lol. Thing is, I have experienced how she actually acts when she wants you to fuck her. It’s totally different.… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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asdgamer I mean, yes, she’s not gonna lock on to ya in front of her friends. But if you isolate with her you’ll get the whole picture. In my experience, unless alcohol is involved, girls will act totally unseductive towards you if they’re around friends and turned on by you. There might be some tells but they hide that shit. Then they find a way to isolate if they can. Then boom, the cat’s out of the bag and stuffed with 9 inches of Chad Thundercock. And a beta will never believe such a thing could happen. Where’s the negotiation?… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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Excellent post. This post is extremely important because it directly attacks and unveils the truth precisely at the most crucial point in a mans life to understand and accept this reality. My twin brother married his first wife under these beta conditions. She LJBFed him for literally a couple years but his miserable persistence “paid off” and earned him an utter living hell that lasted five years. Thankfully they had no kids. Although she was quite attractive, she wasn’t able to capitalize on her hypergamy very well due to her horribly spoiled rottenness and stupidity that most men regoginzed immediately… Read more »

Agent P
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Agent P
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I am glad my wife cheated on her boyfriend at the time to be with me, ending / starting with the classic, “You’re place or mine” in the cab (her words) on our first biblical night together. Why get married? for me, I have to admit it partially seemed like the thing to do, it was a script I was following in general terms and I looked at the timing and was concerned that if I wanted to have kids I didn’t want to be using a walker at my kids graduation. I was acutely aware of younger and older… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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@walawala

Thoughts on this “Take care of me” meme?

“Take care of me” is chick for “Be my Beta Bux”. It’s a provisioning shit test.

Dreamer
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@Johnycomelately In your experience. Do you note some girls having some kind of consistency – aka personality. When you said of girls switching from coyness to bouncy-excitedness brings some implications to me. Do you mean to be careful of extreme demureness (and awareness of extreme excitedness) as calculated acts. Or implicate that any girl who act with some demureness is all false. I’ll throw an example. One person whom I would put more on the side of coyness. Not really on the extreme side, so not described in the posts above – I mean I have seen and can imagine… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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@Aidin:

theasdgamer
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@ Forge Where’s the negotiation? The hesitation? What is this feral creature? God, where’s the childlike coyness? Yeah, negotiation sucks. Hesitation sucks. Feral creature? Mrs. Gamer, lol. She’s all hands. I’ve got a recent field report where coyness was involved. My ex-dance partner (XDP) was acting coy last Fri. (I freeze her out because she has flaked on me in the past & didn’t apologize.) She was talking to other people in my field of vision, facing me, obviously watching me out of the corner of her eye. Jumped in to a mixer after I did so that she would… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@walawala

Wala: Thoughts on this “Take care of me” meme?

Sun: “Take care of me” is chick for “Be my Beta Bux”. It’s a provisioning shit test.

Definitely.

Onder Hassan
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Onder Hassan
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The answers lie in Rollo’s second book where he discusses women’s menstrual cycle. Their preferences change according to where they are in their cycle. There’s no longer any mystery as to why women behave the way they do. The truth is – Women have no clue about what the hell they want. I’m still fucking my exgf over a year later having broken up with her and her trying to frame control the situation about how she doesn’t like having sex for the sake of it. Yet here I am receiving unsolicited sex text from her about sex positions and… Read more »

Dan
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Dan
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Cock rock rules all !

Novaseeker
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Novaseeker
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Everyone wants the most suitable mate possible… big deal, a man is just as “hypergamous” as he evaluates the status of a girl’s father and family connections he can profit from. It seems this misunderstanding keeps coming up every so often. Once again — hypergamy is not “optimization”. Everyone tries to optimize. The difference between hypergamy and optimization is where the “floor” lies for attraction to exist. In non-hypergamous optimizers (i.e., men), the “floor” of attraction, below which they find women unacceptable from an attraction point of view, lies below their own level of attractiveness. This is why male 8s… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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@Novaseeker:

Then add in the fact that women do not get “husband goggles.”

Razorwire
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Razorwire
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“I dodged a bullet.” Unfortunately, a young man is much better equipped to dodge real bullets. I’ve had a handful of serendipitous encounters over the years that have given me valuable glimpses into what might have been. A HS GF, who at 18 was already painting the ponies on the carousel, had chewed through my beta wiring in a matter of months. The painful lesson was instructive as to the opportunistic and hypergamous impulses driving women, though I would not internalize that knowledge until much later in life. Sigh. So when she returned to me after her first semester at… Read more »

Is This Thing On?
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Is This Thing On?
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I need some advice on a personal situation. The readers of this blog are the people I want to ask, but there is no associated forum to the best of my knowledge. Are there any manosphere forums that meet this need? AFVM is too purple pill for me.

DeNihilist
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DeNihilist
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Razorwire, your post above should be entitled – part two of this whole post. Shit, talk about putting a cherry on it my man!

Not Born This Morning
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@razorwire –

loved your comment.

They are all exceptions but also they are all expendable because the exceptions provide the variety we all desire.

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