I had an interesting conversation this week with my good friend Ray and a couple of my designers, Sadie and Sam (names changed to protect the innocent). Just a little background first; Sadie is the Japanese woman I mention in Mental Point of Origin. She’s been divorced once and her relationship history is one punctuated by her involvement with Beta men.
She’s is the definition of the opportunistic concept of female love, but her frustration comes from never having been able to consolidate on an optimized Hypergamy – she simply doesn’t have attractiveness or feminine pleasantry to generate the Alpha interest that would satisfy her. Thus, she attracts Beta orbiters looking for some low hanging fruit, and force-fits them into a contextual Alpha frame. In other words, she opportunistically entertains the Betas with provisioning potential and hopes they’ll man up into dominant Alphas. Thus far she’s been disappointed.
Sam is a gay man in his early 30s who makes a good living afforded by not having children and possessing a high calibre technical skill set. He’s got the outgoing, “look at me, I’m special because I’m gay” exuberance I expect from gay men, but he’s not flamboyant and can still be professional when he has to be. He’s been “dating” a new guy for a while now and has moved this guy into his home recently. He took part in our conversation because the issues of sharing resources, money and picking up half the rent (in his case mortgage) in a relationship came up.
Ray has been one of my best friends for over 15 years now and he’s the guy I mention in Good Girls Do. He’s worked for me directly or indirectly for most of that time and he’s notorious for starting conversations like this when we have downtime. He’s a firestarter, it’s what I like about him, and among the three he’s the only one who knows my online reputation. Ray is Red Pill aware so he knows how to prompt a controversial conversation with me when we’re in mixed company.
Ray: “RT, hypothetical question…”
RT: “Do I have to?”
Ray: “Let’s say you move your girlfriend in with you…”
RT: “Let’s say I don’t and I would never do that. End of hypothetical.”
Ray: “No, I know, but, say you did, and let’s say your rent is $1,000 a month. Would you tell your girlfriend ‘Hey the rent is $1,000 a month how about you pay $300 and I’ll pay $700 or would you say 50/50?”
RT: “No. I’d pay it all myself. I’d also be sure that only my name was on the lease.”
Sadie:”What? Why, that’s silly?”
Ray: “You wouldn’t expect any contribution?”
RT: “No. I wouldn’t turn it down if she took it upon herself to contribute, but I wouldn’t expect it from a girl I (foolishly) brought into my living arrangement.”
Sadie: “You wouldn’t expect her to pay half?”
RT: “No. If I can’t provide my own $1,000 rent or food, or to keep the lights on, I have no business bringing a woman into that arrangement. If I have more than enough for myself I don’t need her paying. Besides, if she’s that into living with me, she’ll want to contribute in other ways and I wont have to ask.”
Sam: “You don’t think it should be an equal split? Maybe that’s a man and a woman thing…”
RT: “Yes and no. I’m sure between you and your boyfriend there’s a more dominant personality right?”
Sam: “Yeah, me.”
RT: “And you probably make more money too. So there’s really no ‘equality’ when it comes down to it.”
Sadie: “I expect my boyfriend to pay half the rent.”
RT: “Of course you do, because women think in terms of equality when it works to their advantage. What if your ‘boyfriend’ could pay for all the rent, utilities and most of everything else? Would you still try to pay half?”
Sadie: “Yes of course.”
RT: “What if he only paid just half and you knew it was a better deal for him?
Sadie: (tentative) “Yes,…”
RT: “I doubt that, but what you’re saying is that you’d limit improving your way of life to maintain a belief in equality.”
Sadie: “All the guy’s I’ve lived with have been mooches.”
RT: “Which explains why you’re not living with them any more. It goes both ways, women don’t respect men they need to support. All this stuff about equality in relationships is nonsense.If your boyfriend could easily make rent while you struggled to come up with it you’d resent him for it. There is no equal division.”
Sam: “I guess I see what you’re saying, but the expectation is still the same even for me and [boyfriend].
RT: “There is no equality in a relationship, but there can be complementarity where either person’s benefits can offset the needs of the other.”
Ray: “So you and Mrs. T aren’t 50/50?”
RT: “Ray, I make about 4 times the money that she does, how is there ever going to be anything like equality with that kind of balance?”
Ray: “But what about chores and shit?”
RT: “I take care of the outside of the house, she takes care of the inside. I do the smelly dirty jobs, she keeps the fresh cleaning ones, it’s not rocket science.”
Sam: “Sounds like you just want to stay in the power position.”
RT: “Yes, but it’s only a power play if you’re exploiting your partner. Women like to say they want an equal partner, but they don’t, do they Sadie? They want someone to respect and look up to. So when that comes down to numbers, to money, what’s really holding you together? Love? Mutual interests? (at Sam) Right now you can’t help but be the more dominant one in your relationship. So do you stop being so just to balance things? Do you expect [boyfriend] to pick up the slack more?
The Cardinal Rule of Relationships
In any relationship, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.
This principle isn’t so much about ‘power’ as it is about control. This might sound like semantics, but it makes a difference. It’s very easy to slip into binary arguments and think that what I mean by the cardinal rule of relationships is that one participant must absolutely rule over the other – a domineering dominant to a doormat submissive. Control in a healthy relationship passes back and forth as desire and need dictate for each partner. In an unhealthy relationship you have an unbalanced manipulation of this control by a partner. Although control is never in complete balance, it becomes manipulation when one partner, in essence blackmails, the other with what would otherwise be a reinforcer for the manipulated under a healthy circumstance. This happens for a plethora different reasons, but the condition comes about by two ways – the submissive participant becomes conditioned to allow the manipulation to occur and/or the dominate initiates the manipulation. In either case the rule still holds true – the one who needs the other the least has the most control. Nowhere is this more evident than in interpersonal relationships.
When I was writing this post many years ago I hadn’t fully considered how this rule interacts with, and contradicts, many of the tenets of egalitarian equalism. The idealistic state of that equalism is one in which two co-equal, yet independent people come together in a perfect union of balance. In theory that balance should account for resources, emotional investment, family considerations, as well as intellectual and social status aspects of either partner.
These considerations alone should be enough to illustrate equalitarianism as the manipulative farce it is, however, all we really need to do is take into account the Cardinal Rule of Relationships. It’s very easy to be accused of being controlling when you embrace the truth of this rule – and particularly so when the reigning social undercurrent is one in which everyone ought to be co-equal rational actors.
I expected to have that leveled at me in this conversation, but it’s important to bear in mind the real nature of power. By my own definition, power is the degree of control we exercise over the direction of our own lives. As I mentioned, I don’t mind being the more powerful partner in terms of resources in my marriage because I accept that stupid notions of maintaining anything like “equality” is simply infeasible. I know more than a few men who’ve sold their lives’ potential away in the belief that they should lessen themselves in order to support a more balanced, equalist ideal. Ultimately their relationships, marriages and families suffer because they never own that potential – just the idea of owning it is a source of guilt and shame.
For all of the bleating about more equitability being needed between men and women. the fundamental truth is that it’s neither a realistic nor workable state. I’ve used money for my illustration here, but this applies to many other facets of an intersexual relationship. From an equalist perspective this sounds a lot like a want for creating a condition of dependency, but in truth it is an unachievable state of egalitarianism that creates a never-satisfied state of dependency.
Her World or Yours?
If you go back and look at the video from Bachelor Nation you can see the dichotomy that presumptions of “equality” sows in western(izing) women today. Within the first 6 minutes of the video we see the internal contradictions inherent in women. There is a want for an idealized equal pairing, but yet a desire for a man to be a Man. The documentary finds the root of this dichotomy in modern resource imbalances between the sexes, and makes the predictable appeal to men not living up to their burden of performance. The male shame comes in contrasting women’s taking on what should be men’s performance burdens – the male obligation to which ironically flies in the face of anything like true egalitarian equalism.
Stay-at-home dads, house husbands, and anything relatable will always have a stigma attached to them in spite of any weak attempts to make them socially acceptable. That stigma is founded in a limbic-level understanding of men’s burden of performance; to be a Man is not just to produce sustainable resources, but to provide a surplus of those resources.
I recently read a poll sponsored by Forbes magazine that listed men’s top goals in life and for the first time in that poll’s history “a good physique” outranked all personal and financial ambitions for top executives. The predictable shame then followed that men aren’t “Manning Up” any more, and they’ve become vain, self-absorbed narcissists for a new focus on what image they present.
The obvious Red Pill conclusion is of course a realignment with the prevailing social perceptions (courtesy of the Feminine Imperative I might add) that women are out-earning men financially and educationally; thus the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy takes precedent. If America’s top execs are heeding the message of Open Hypergamy, why bother establishing yourself financially, academically, ambition-wise or otherwise?
The problem with this equation is evident in the Bachelor Nation video. I can understand the sentiments of MGTOW; if the opinions expressed by the quality of woman represented in the video are any indicator of a female zeitgeist it makes the idea of abandoning the Game altogether that much more appealing.
That said, and I’m going to dare to get prescriptive here, I believe that establishing yourself as an independent Man should be your top priority. I have no doubt that that sentiment will get convoluted with feminism’s Strong Independent Woman® meme, but lets clarify something first – the ideal that men ought to be strong and independent has always been the precursor to his quality as a man. Independence, self-sufficiency and determined ambitions have always been the hallmarks of a man comfortable with his burden of performance. Only in women is independence a novelty.
Yet now, in men, this independence is not just a novelty, but it’s been distorted into being an obsessive-compulsive sign of a man’s imagined insecurities. The very strength and independence men have always been expected to embody is the domain of women, while any hope for it from men is a sign of a fragile ego.
Frame is everything. Always be aware of the subconscious balance of who’s frame in which you are operating. Always control the Frame, but resist giving the impression that you are.
I firmly believe Alpha is a mindset. That mindset can get the poorest son-of-a-bitch laid with the right application, tact and circumstance. That’s a tough pill to swallow when you work your ass off in the belief that your affluence and status should be the metric Alpha is judged by and women respond to. That’s also not to say affluence and status won’t get you laid by their own merit, it’s just the context in which that happens that makes the difference. There are many men who’ve found their retroactive cuckolding after having based their personal successes on the presumption that those successes should be the basis of his quality to women.
The concept of frame covers a lot of aspects of our daily lives, some of which we’re painfully aware of, others we are not, but nonetheless we are passively influenced by frame. What concerns us in terms of inter-gender relations however is the way in which frame sets the environment, the ambience, and the ‘reality’ in which we relate with both the woman we sarge at a bar and the relationship with the woman we’ve lived with for 20 years. One important fact to consider, before I launch into too much detail, is to understand that frame is NOT power. The act of controlling the frame may be an exercise in power for some, but let me be clear from the start that the concept of frame is who’s ‘reality’ in which you choose to operate in relation to a woman. Both gender’s internalized concept of frame is influenced by our individual acculturation, socialization, psychological conditioning, upbringing, education, etc., but be clear on this, you are either operating in your own frame or you’re operating in hers. Also understand that the balance of frame often shifts. Frame is fluid and will find its own level when a deficit or a surplus of will is applied to change it. The forces that influence that lack or boost of will is irrelevant – just know that the conditions of an operative framework will shift because of them.
We can go back and debate the Crisis of Motive once again – who do you really do it for? – but in terms of Frame, even if you subscribe to a MGTOW perspective, it’s important for a Man to have a world into which a woman might enter. Not for her sake, but for a Man’s edification.
Establish your world; you shall make your mission, not your woman your priority. Women should only ever be a complement to a man’s life, never the focus of it.
@letstalkaboutsomerealshit
http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/4296-kill-yourself.jpg
I mean it sincerely, sweetheart. Your dried up gash is clearly making you entirely too cranky to be around here.
@Glenn
From the article:
Three recent fights between the Bandidos and Cossacks occurred in Longview, Kilgore and Quitman, according to a FBI report from April 24 cited in the bulletin.
Hahaha, I used to live in Kilgore and hang out in Longview a bunch. What a trashy collection of shitholes to be squabbling and fighting over.
@Sun Wukong,
Thank you for your uplifting comments. We are all edified now. Punk.
@etstalkaboutsomerealshit
> Call everybody punk
> Trash talk ceaselessly
> Complain that I’m not “uplifting”
Hahahaha, you do realize why nobody respects your opinions right? Because of butthurt whining like that. “I keep attacking everyone and they keep attacking me, waaaaaah!”
What a fucking 5 year old little girl.
@M Simon
So, after all, all what you did boils down to craving for female approval.
This is an epic thread. Sooooo much butthurt and incredibly entertaining.
I use multiple user names in order to circumvent your censorship. (WordPress chicanery, and all that.) You promise, right now, to your readership, that you don’t censor (as you have done to me MANY times in the past), and I will promise to post under one handle, henceforth. That is actually my preference—to post under one handle. Posting under multiple handles is a pain in the ass. Assuming that you agree to this truce, know this: I WILL call you on your bullshit. My intent in doing that is to get males to think for themselves, beyond your sermons. If… Read more »
No you use multiple usernames to create the illusion that there is any censorship here because you know my comments have always been unmoderated.
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/003/194/001.jpg
@Will: “So if you are a surgeon who saves people’s lives then . . .”
. . . you are in a demographic with one of the highest rates of divorce, alcoholism and suicide.
” . . . the key to always performing is never being content with yourself . . .”
But that’s just being myself.
@wu fung, I use multiple user names in order to circumvent your censorship. (WordPress chicanery, and all that.) You promise, right now, to your readership, that you don’t censor (as you have done to me MANY times in the past), and I will promise to post under one handle, henceforth. That is actually my preference—to post under one handle. Posting under multiple handles is a pain in the ass. Assuming that you agree to this truce, know this: I WILL call you on your bullshit. My intent in doing that is to get males to think for themselves, beyond your… Read more »
No, your spam is just message board pollution. I’d do better hitting on the wife of my next door neighbor than reading your shit.
Mr. Leykis nails it again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSWlhkLgZiI
Go keep learning “game”.
Readers: just because someone posts incessantly means exactly jack shit. DOES WHAT THEY POST HAVE A MEANINGFUL IMPACT IN YOUR LIFE? That is the standard.
Kisses, wu fung.
*
Awesome, @Rollo. I will henceforth post under the “Chokmah” moniker that you gave me. (my preference). The discussion is about to get fun. If you revert, I will revert. Let’s neither of us do that, ok?
Peace.
@kfg “Divorce rates , suicide and alcoholism is high for doctors” or whatever you said. It’s actually more complicated than that. https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2015/03/18/female-hypergamy-by-the-numbers/ More female doctors divorce b/c they aren’t happy in their marriage likely b/c of their internal hypergamy. Or a mix of things A doctors job is stressful. You’re not an idiot. Talk to any male surgeon (especiallllly orthopedics) and he will be a very very dominant and confident personality. In high school, I was the captain of a sports team. I had *over self confidence* because I could basically rationalize it. Approach anxiety turned into “why the fuck… Read more »
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/02/19/divorce-among-doctors-isnt-as-common-as-you-think-study-finds/
Cool, let’s test this. @Rollo, why do you bring exclusively bad news to your audience (past 24 months or so)? There’s good news, also. Intimate relations with females are fulfilling to the max. What’s the point in learning how to get puss if you don’t also learn how to enjoy puss? You never discuss the enjoyment of puss, and perhaps you should mix that into your message. Else, why are we doing this?
@incrediblystupidlittlegirl Comical. No one respects my opinions? Check the stats. What uh… stats are we talking about here professor? No seriously, I honestly have no fucking clue what you’re on about. You sound like a child pointing to some imaginary scoreboard you’re keeping. And who is listening to YOU? Crickets. Even if that was all that’s listening to me, you think I give a fuck? It’s you jumping up and down around here insisting on some kind of validation. I don’t need yours or anyone else’s for that matter. I engage with the commenters here because they give valuable insight… Read more »
@Will: “Talk to any male surgeon . . . ”
I used to work out of the home of one. After his divorce he was short of money, but had lots of extra space, so he rented it out as office and small warehouse.
” . . .those who specialized in psychiatry and surgery were more likely to be divorced.”
Oops. Intended to post that as our favorite “Chokmah”.
Posting under multiple handles is a pain in the ass.
@rooLLO,
Let me ask you a question in front of your audience: have you ever censored/deleted a comment on your site? If so, for what reason?
This is just spam, worthless board spam. I’m in favor of a ban.
Dry fire, testing. I’m coming for you Rollo. You cannot continue to spiritually beat down your readership. I have to live in this world, also. It won’t stand. Not on my watch. Life is a blessing, and all of your readers know that, in their bones. For the time being, I will take you at your word (despite history), and give you the benefit of doubt. Shape up.
@Jeremy
I’m seriously starting to suspect this guy has actual genuine psychological issues. The self-righteous grandiose declarations and persistent insistence on metaphorically banging his head against a wall by coming here suggest some real problems to me.
I have nothing meaningful to say, but I’m going to post because it seems to be post bullshit day. Fuck, there’s more drama in the manospere than a Spanish soap opera, but the bitches aren’t as hot.
@kfg read the CH post regarding divorce. And “Physicians had a 24 percent likelihood of divorce; it was 23 percent for pharmacists; 25 percent for dentists; 31 percent for health-care executives; 33 percent among nurses; 27 percent among lawyers; and 35 percent for non-health-care workers.” Surgeons and psychiatrists have divorce rates below non doctors still. My point to all of this is *you are what you do* So if your a surgeon or the basketball captain you don’t have to “fake it till you make it” you can *be yourself*……. If you want to be successful with girls….girls like dominant… Read more »
I have been doing a bit of work recently with drones and Geographic Information Systems in conjunction with Smart Agriculture.
I found resistance from horticulturalists about using maps and they say “Men don’t need no damn maps.”
And I am now creating a program to change all of that such that men can and should use maps in new intelligent manners.
I call my new program:
GeoMasculinity
Details to come out later. Stay tuned.
@Hobbes
Will GeoMasculinity reject evolution?
@Sun- Best. Clip. Ever.
But I have also heard of other renegade men’s groups that wish to break off an go their own direction: A group of men that believe the venerable Khaki trouser has gotten a bad rap under red pill and need to be re-embraced and revived. ChinoMasculinity That cats have gotten a slighting and are fine pets for macho men MeowMasculinity That men should use search engines in a more manly manner SEOMasculinity Some say the real true path is emulating the star of Titanic, Gangs of New York, Gatsby, and many others. LeoMasculinity But other men think men should emulate… Read more »
“I’m coming for you Rollo”
don’t get the keyboard all sticky
@ YaReally “I’m legit worried for the dude, like in terms of mental health/depression. Getting criticized for his terrible Dr Oz appearance seems to have really tipped things over the deep-end for him.” I didn’t even think his Oz performance was that bad. I don’t even think anybody would have given a shit if he himself hadn’t acted like a chump about it. He was crying about it before it even aired and feeling sorry for himself. It reminded me of being a self loathing 15 year old and trying to get a pity fuck or fishing for complements from… Read more »
That was stagecraft. Roosh knew damn well what he was setting himself up for with Dr. Oz. he’d written about him and his wife a year prior to going on. So all this BS about being ambushed was his story from the start. He needs any publicity. Without it he fade into obscurity. That’s what he fears, his lifestyle for the last 10 years has been domain dependent on his book sales. What else does he do for money? The manosphere is his job. I said the same of Athol Kay, he’s committed to the trail so he has to… Read more »
I would also like to announce two books that I have coming out
The first is how to tap the heretofore undiscovered pleasures of seducing female Chinese Software Testers. It’s called
Q.C Paradise
The second is the story of one man’s frustration using the Roosh method of pickup. It’s called
Dang
I’ll let you know when I finally find a publisher.
Roosh can come home, he can go get a 9-5 job, he can do just about anything and let his residual media work/book sales serve as supplimentary income. That’s what most men who read his work have to do, and travel on what time they can get.
Roosh won’t let himself because his fame has created an ego investment in what he is now.
If you want to earn a little money, write a book. If you want to make a lot of money, create a religion. – L. Ron Hubbard
Tomassi, what’s wrong with what Roosh is saying? It is way past time for red pills to evolve. It’s become a cesspool of nonsense, ironically in many places, full of more misandry than feminism. A bunch of immature frat boys. Roosh says many of the things I’ve been trying to say, men need spirituality, men need traditional values and patriarchy, and many men need marriage, which means actually learning how to love women. Men need to grow up and actually become men. It’s a total replay of first wave feminism, second wave, third wave…wait, we are now neofeminists! If you… Read more »
@insanity, excellent idea! Go to Roosh’s forum. Cut and paste all your posts from here to his forum.
Profit(?) right?
@ Rollo
Yeah, it really does seem like WWF plot line. I wish him luck with his church of homophobic pickup artist evolution denialists.
Oh, I know the story of L. Ron and cults for profit. The best Roosh can do is a personality cult, similar to Stefan Molyneaux. It’s hard to call those true cults though, as there’s no direct obligation for monetary donation or ostracization. They’re basically similar to trying to serve the function of the Dalai Lama, convince a large number of people that you have exceptional wisdom, and offer your words for sums of cash. Those cults aren’t as profitable as you might believe. L.Ron did it right, you have to have the threat of being kicked out for not… Read more »
“Roosh says many of the things I’ve been trying to say”@insanitybytes2
endorsement!
@ insanitybytes22 “Men need to grow up and actually become men.” Speaking of misandry. 90% of workplace injuries and deaths are attributable to men, sweetie. Hint: men work those jobs to provide for women and children, even in gender equality land where their wages are driven down by having to compete with women who want to work vanity jobs so they can play grown up. I don’t know who you think is roofing the houses and paving the roads so you can stuff your face with cookies in an air conditioned office and reading Gawker all day at your HR… Read more »
” . . . his church of homophobic pickup artist evolution denialists.”
The latest article on RoK, 3 Men Who Saved the West, references Jack Donovan’s 4 traits of masculinity.
That would be the Jack Donovan who just got thrown under the bus.
@divided line- Damn, nicely done Sir, nicely done!
I’m always suspicious when any leader of any community starts creating an Us vs. Them situation. Instant suspicion generator for me.
“Men owe you nothing.” In love two people actually owe each other a debt that can never be repaid, so the symbiosis of that relationship creates an environment where two people compete to see who can give more, because they are aware of how much has been given to them. It is not unlike the debt many Christians feel was paid for them, a debt that cannot ever be repaid, but you dedicate your life to serving anyway. That is precisely what I mean by men need to grow up. You can not even see the reflective nature of that… Read more »
Insanity, really, you should go to the rooshv forums and paste this stuff over there, it’s gold really.
“Insanity, really, you should go to the rooshv forums..”
I think you need to hear it far more than he does, Tomassi.
No I think you should. You’re obviously very invested in your conviction. Copy and paste your comments over to there, let us know how they take it.
@Rollo
http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/6537-yeah.gif
“You’re obviously very invested in your conviction.”
Not really, I just found the whole thing a bit amusing. Actually I really was more curious about your opinion, which is why I asked, “Tomassi, what’s wrong with what Roosh is saying?”
As to posting over there, I suppose I’d just meet the usual venom that wounded red pills like to heap on women everywhere. After a while all that nonsense just becomes redundant.
So, we’re retarded, and you’re our messiah. Sounding more and more like Roosh actually.
Holy fuckstick, this thread is full of trolls and inanity. @Rollo, I want to say something very clearly to you. Intellectually you have moved beyond Roosh. He’s hung up in a limiting place, whether he’s trapped there or not. As I’ve gotten older it’s become quite to me that intentions are destiny – you end up where you aim yourself, whether you want to admit it or not. You have aimed for something much more broad, something more noble and less about you. Roosh thinks he’s figured out the answers to many problems he doesn’t even fucking understand, Rollo. You… Read more »
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/201/364/10744052.jpg
@Rollo
YOU are the KING of the manosphere.
Not Roisy nor Roosh.
You are way,,,,wayyyyyyyyyyy ahead of them.
Roosh is young and hitting his wall.
I’m sure you look back and say:
What!? And I thought they were good.
Ps
I hate pumping your head.
Ps2
Thank you for removing him and the return of kings craps and in the future remove the chateau as well.
One more thing,
If the manosphere need to progress it has to purify itself from the adolescent.
“YOU are the KING of the manosphere.”
I cannot second that, but I can reiterate that he is a concise and comprehensive no bullshit zone.
Rollo,
Would it NOT be wiser to lay off Roosh.
Would NOT leaving him alone make you higher
” in the future remove the chateau as well.”
Don’t do that.
“YOU are the KING of the manosphere.”
Ah, a pissing contest. That explains everything. Listen Tomassi, you have a great deal of worth and value. If it makes you feel any better, I once wrote that your words flow like milk and honey. You’re intelligent, not nearly as crude and low brow as some, and you make many valid points. I think you’re wrong about several things, but there’s nothing wrong with how you express yourself.
Still waiting for your report back about how your perspective faired in Roosh’s forums insanity. Please tell us what they said.
I wrote an entire post about Roosh, Tomassi. It will post in the morning.
I’m still waiting for you to explain what offends you about the things that Roosh said. I’d genuinely like to hear your opinion.
I wonder what it’s like serving as an example of everything a Man should ignore on this board.
@ Rollo Tomassi I thought you should know this. I know you removed Just For Guys Blog from your links because of what Obsidian stated, but Obsidian is gone from that site and I see that Morpheus still comments here on your site. Obsidian now calls himself Mumia Ali and writes for the Return of Kings blog for a few months now. Theodore “Vox Day” Beale wrote an article supportive of Roosh called “The Red Pill Schism” and also wrote “The Temptation of MGTOW” which you may want to check out. Vox Day had an earlier article on his alpha… Read more »
@Jeremy A good question and I am glad you asked it. There supposedly has been a lot of “evolution” in mapping going all the way back to Prince Henry the Explorer from Portugal in the early 15th century. During the entire so called “Age of Exploration” men went armed with a compass and a sextant and pushed the limits of mapping. And this led really to the Enlightenment as men finally knew their place, their location in the world, and theoretically. When you think of an “Enlightenment Gentleman Scholar” they always had in their library, as symbols of this enlightenment,… Read more »
With age comes wisdom.
Who the fuck Is Roosh or Roisy?
Tomassi is the one who articulated all, not fucking Roosh nor Roisy nor chateau.
You can debate that forever but you CAN’T debate the Tomassi’s effects on the manosphere.
For all of you out there(and me) if Rollo was on Dr (quack) Oz, ,,,,Oz would’ve had no chance.
I think that MORON Roosh fucked it up big time and the reason he fucked it up is for Roosh to find it out in 10 years from now.
@me
! “I think that MORON Roosh fucked it up big time and the reason he fucked it up is for Roosh to find it out in 10 years from now.”
I meant 30 years from now.
Well, here’s hoping that Roosh finds his way. Personally, I never got into his vibe, but there’s no denying his contributions as a Johnny Appleseed of game application and RP awareness.
I hop around the sphere to see what’s new and interesting–including the occasional visit to ROK and Roosh’s blog–but TRM is always my go-to home base. The Rational Male literally saved my life after my divorce two years ago and I’ll always be in Rollo’s debt for that. I know I’m not the only one, either.
The problem I have with neomasculinity is that it is retrograde, the FI will rebrand it neanderthal-masculinity. It would have been better if he said we have open hypergamy, the counter for that is hyper-masculinity.
@Tilikum “Clearly you don’t understand diminishing returns. I also don’t think you believe your own bullshit and thats why you need to repeat it here over and over. Like a chick, all you are waiting for is someone smarter than you and more dominant to prove to your judgement that you are wrong. Ergo, this little trip to here where you have a chance of somebody pulling you out of your existential tailspin. I feel for you amigo. Must be lonely indeed.” You are right, that is what I am doing. Thing is: 1) no man here has been able… Read more »
lol seeing Rollo drop the word “fucktard” is basically the highlight of this whole thing. 😀 I can’t see anyone having an issue with deleting/banning people who’s contribution is just “Punks. You’re all punks!!!”, everyone knows you don’t censor shit worth discussing, but it’s your forum and your decisions. Trolls’ll get bored sooner or later lol @Rollo “He needs any publicity. Without it he fade into obscurity. That’s what he fears, his lifestyle for the last 10 years has been domain dependent on his book sales. What else does he do for money?” Ya, I sensed pangs of jealousy in… Read more »
Whoops instead of “to realize that Roosh is doing the exact same thing lol” that should read “to realize that Roosh is using the exact tactic they’re trying to imply Rollo is using”, because anyone with any common sense knows Rollo isn’t attacking Roosh to spread his brand. From what I’ve seen it looks to me like Rollo is perfectly content with building his audience through positive word of mouth and guys discovering it when they go looking for answers, I doubt Rollo has a controversial Dr Oz Jerry Springer interview lined up lol That’s the difference between someone who’s… Read more »
Like come on, this was just posted on RVF:
“It is unfortunate overall. As men, we are supposed to work together to overcome our foes. Instead inner division has taken place and we are now a scattered ‘sphere’. Hopefully Neomasculinity will be the banner of the new era of men. Roosh, know that we stand with you.”
Who talks like that??? And the guy’s forum avatar pic is a pic of James Bond lol
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/bd/bd1ad6025eb5f8e82259b763fc34deda74c9906445b433ca978568baad7d4ef9.jpg
That would explain why the Alex Jones thing is such a feather in his cap too…I mean, some dude’s amateur-looking YouTube show is “mainstream media” now??
Yeah, that was hilarious. How many people actually take Alex Jones seriously? Mainstream recognition my ass.
This whole affair is making me yawn. It’s not like we haven’t seen this before. Some loudmouth proclaims himself and his ideology to be the future engine of social progress, gets more and more butthurt when men refuse to volunteer as cannon fodder for him.
Meh, the italics got fucked up. The second and third paragraphs are the response.
@ doclove “It looks like there is going to be a big schism in the manosphere.” The Sharks vs. the Jets. It looks like it’s going to be an echo of the schism that already surfaced in MGTOW over the question of traditionalism. What you find is that if you peel back the bullshit, it’s the same old schism that always divides people: Some are looking forward and some backward. One group wants a rigid, singular ideal to aspire to, one that is rooted in what they believe is true about the past; the other wants to tear down or… Read more »
Another day ahead with which to improve myself and build my empire! @Sun “Eat problems, shit success.” Getting it. I’m beginning to see how much I kid myself about how serious I am about my own goals. It’s like I’m living on the faded glory of once being very effective but I give myself excuses for bad results in my life these days. What I’m grateful for? That I’m clearing away my own fog of cynicism and hopelessness and self-deception. What’s helping me? The most effective PTSD treatment I’ve done has been adopting a resilient mindset. I’m consciously adaptive and… Read more »
One guy on RVF writes “Culture now encouraging ‘freezing’ our thoughts at a particular time so we have no personal growth. Cougars! 50 is the new 30! Stay young forever. 20-something’s watching ‘Adventure Time’ and going watching kid’s cartoons filled with snarky, pop culture references. 40 year old men watching movies about giant robots and superhero team ups.” And another guy agrees “The Internet Reviewers who keep making videos snarking about media from their childhood well into their 30s.” …his last YouTube vid is him reacting to the Star Wars trailer. “40 year olds who are listless and irresponsible, waiting… Read more »
@Glenn
“I’m beginning to see how much I kid myself about how serious I am about my own goals. It’s like I’m living on the faded glory of once being very effective but I give myself excuses for bad results in my life these days.”
That just means you’re totally normal and just like everybody else in the world because everyone does exactly the same thing.
…but don’t worry, you can be better. Get sanding. 😉
@YaReally Ok, let’s assume I am dumb. I boil down relationships to two categories: a. casual sex (one night stands) b. middle/long term relationships (M/LTR) What I simply say is that going through all the “game” bullshit to sink the pink 30 minutes is useless, unless there is something more: having women begging for your cock. And in this latter case, it is craving for approval-seeking behavior. On the other hand, M/LTR offer something that casual sex (one night stands) does not, and those relationships cannot be created/sustained based on “game” (simply because “game” is all about manipulation, lies, deception… Read more »
@YaReally re: “Instead inner division has taken place and we are now a scattered ‘sphere’. Hopefully Neomasculinity will be the banner of the new era of men. Roosh, know that we stand with you.”
https://youtu.be/EXGUNvIFTQw
Fucking lol
@YaReally
I admit, I laughed out loud at that comment.
But LARP-ing… you keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means (not that the meme isn’t somehow tangentially appropriate).
@DocLove “….Vox Day had an earlier article on his alpha Game blog criticizing men who did not want to get married, were vocal about it and proud about it earlier but I can’t remember it. I noticed Christian McQueen stopped writing articles for the Return of Kings site a while back which was disappointing. I would expect Matt Forney formally known as Ferdinand Bardamu and Aaron “Captain Capitalism” Clarey to side with Roosh as they write at the Return of Kings. It looks like there is going to be a big schism in the manosphere.” Circle the wagons! Draw the… Read more »
“. . . “game” is . . .”
. . . all human social interaction. It can be conscious game, or unconscious game. It can be good game, or it can be bad game.
But it is all game.
When you simply say “Hello” to someone, you are gaming them. It is, literally, a cry for attention, a “manipulation,” otherwise you wouldn’t have said it.
That’s why PUAs are assholes: they intentionally push young men get their self-esteem destroyed in the wrong places Always good to destroy someone’s false ego. Just bought my first home: wishing I actually listened to my Dad all those years ago when he took me around the house instead of being an arrogant ungrateful little shit. Oh well, live and learn. Re: Roosh. What’s wrong with an ideology? They have their uses, specifically longevity. Christianity outlived the Roman Empire, no matter how many horses the Huns brought. I haven’t been following this drama, don’t even know what the hell is… Read more »
@KFG
Nope, it is not.
Thank you for illustrating my point of how PUAs maliciously turned an empty worthless concept into something that supposedly use in all aspects of your life.
Besides, open discourse opens intercourse
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_livhi6uXLd1qi7deco1_500.gif
@Lone Survivor Your point is an empty shell of a perspective that denies that any social dynamics ever take place in normal interactions between people. It is an egalitarian mindset that presumes that interaction between people in anything other than grammatically correct spoken language does not exist. Further, you attempt to convince people that anyone telling you otherwise is selling you some kind of “poison”. You’re essentially saying that the laws of power are a fools list, and that no such power dynamic ever takes place between humans. If that is so, then why is there a whole industry dedicated… Read more »
@LoneSurvivor Alright, I’ll give this a shot. Gonna have to be brief though, gotta meet up with a cute chick at a scottish festival and I’m bringing the scotch lol “Ok, let’s assume I am dumb. I boil down relationships to two categories: a. casual sex (one night stands) b. middle/long term relationships (M/LTR) What I simply say is that going through all the “game” bullshit to sink the pink 30 minutes is useless, unless there is something more: having women begging for your cock. And in this latter case, it is craving for approval-seeking behavior. On the other hand,… Read more »
Psychology: “an empty worthless concept” – for those that lack a brain.
How do you manage to breath sand while avoiding having someone shove a pointy stick up your butt?
Game isn’t even limited to human interactions. When I go hunting or fishing I must game the game, as even a sitting duck is prophylactically gaming me by acting like it’s just more ground litter.
@Glenn
“Agriculture”, you do make me laugh hard sometimes. I won’t get into it here, but our invasion of Afghanistan had a number of proximate and ultimate causes.”
Maybe he meant “Agriculture = poppies “.
Honestly,
This whole Roosh Drama, I’m sided with you.
Roosh is a beta, who can’t get quality girls.
He is ultimately ignorant to the true nature of women. And his cohort matt forney is a pathetic lump of turd, REAL TRUTH here.
I’d much rather take my advice from people like you and cmq. Than loser beta bitch boys like forney and roosh.
Hope you see this comment.
He wants to create a dogmatic religion… but he’s out of touch and further separating himself from people.
@Glenn, “I do a little thought experiment with people that goes like this. I ask them what percentage of U.S. criminal justice spending goes towards the “War on Drugs”. Nobody every knows, not once. When I tell them it’s 50%, most are surprised – but not shocked. I called in to a talk radio show one day when I was bored, I’d stumbled on Fox radio’s John Gibson who was talking about drug legalization like a typical right wing dingbat, and asked him if he knew the level of spending. When I told him he said, “So?” My retort? “Are… Read more »
There’s no reason to name call on Roosh or Matt. They both more agree with you on these topics than disagree. Roosh is unfortunately stuck trying to make a living doing this, but he’s very likely hit the end of profitability on sex-tourism book sales, and internet media empires (such as they are). And what he doesn’t want to do is find himself a desk job in the developed world (for probably multiple reasons). So he’s reinventing his subject/fame into a personality cult rather than simply offering his own writing for income as he has been doing. It’s sad to… Read more »
@YaReally Re: RVF
Keyboard jockeys man… watchu gunna do? Your walking the talk, how much of them ever will?
” . . . I tell them it’s 50% . . .”
What’s their ROI?
@kfg
You can’t put a price on tyranny.
This has been an interesting week in the manosphere. I haven’t seen this kind of drama since the Breaking Bad finale! All kidding aside, this kind of internecine conflict is damaging to the manosphere as a whole, especially if it is a protracted fight. I hope Rollo and Roosh can settle their differences quickly. The last thing we need is a permanent rift between the various communities that comprise the ‘sphere. And if it seems that there are certain irreconcilable differences in philosophy or marketing, perhaps you can create a tentative peace. There are more pressing issues at hand.
@Jeremy:
Tyrants do it all the time. My question had a cynical edge to it. Do you know why Owsley started making LSD? To break the price controlled government monopoly by supplying higher grade stuff at a fair market price.
His dad was in the loop. He knew what was going on.
I also wanted to toss in my 0.02 on the differences between all of our various communities. Out of all the various fora, Rollo’s has been consistently the most welcoming and inclusive. The Red Pill Reddit comes second. As a sandnigger and LGBT supporter, I find it off-putting when Rooshv members speak about their hate for fags or blacks. The Rooshv set embrace chateau heartiste’s hbd philosophy. For obvious reasons, I can’t subscribe to heartiste’s divisive ideology.
@Tom I hope Rollo and Roosh can settle their differences quickly. I don’t think that will happen, and I think it will be because Roosh needs it to work out that way to make a paycheck. He’s gotta have an Emmanuel Goldstein for his followers to rage at during the two minutes of hate. I don’t think the ‘sphere at large will be harmed by this ultimately, but I think it’s going to leave Roosh isolated from the community he’ll need when the shit hits the fan. It’s why I’m actually worried about Roosh. Whether I agree with everything the… Read more »
I don’t like commenting or wasting time on the sphere politics, but I think there is more to the Roosh thing than just needing to make a paycheck. After all, who would have held it against him to come up with this new product and hawk it? It’s not like anyone would begrudge him that, I think. I mean lots of guys have products out for sale, he had books as well right? So what would have been the difference to just say “hey guys, I’ve come with a new product that, I think, takes RP in a new direction,… Read more »
@Hobbes “His need to burn others is coming from more than just money. That video I finally watched shows a guy who is deeply unhappy, most likely really depressed and, I get the impression, of someone who has lots of regrets. My instinct tells me this guy regrets where his choices have landed him and needs to project the blame for it onto others.” This was my read too, and why I say I hope he has some actual close buddies who can reign him in but I don’t think he does. I don’t think he’d get suicidal or anything… Read more »
@YaReally
I’ve been holding back so far, but I just want to throw you some respect and gratitude for your wise insights, positive disposition, humor, good advice, and patience in helping everybody out here.
I always get a lot from your input and the information you actively share. Thank you.
@The Diplomat
“I’ve been holding back so far, but I just want to throw you some respect and gratitude for your wise insights, positive disposition, humor, good advice, and patience in helping everybody out here.”
Glad to have helped. Pay it forward and help spread an ideology that will do a lot more good for men than neomasculinity will. 🙂
@Forge It seems like I forgot to clarify a key concept. “Game” is the term elaborated by Neil Strauss in “The Game”, which is basically a set of rules/ideas that supposedly help men get laid. And it does not work. All the mumbo jumbo of “improve yourself, yadda yadda” are not “Game” by definition. “I don’t think you understand how awesome it makes you feel when a girl’s begging for it. It fucking turns guys on. It’s not about approval, it’s about being caught up in visceral desire. You’re kinda sounding like the guys who just go on about how… Read more »
PS: “Game” as the concept introduced by Neil Strauss is pure misleading lie and manipulation.