Two Camps

I thought this was an interesting take from Striver in this week’s comments. I think this part has some merit…

Once gut level violence is tempered, men want to be the hero, the doer, who is rewarded for his deeds by a woman or women. Game is inherently feminine, an admission that women have won. Game involving talking and “communication” – does that sound masculine?

However, I disagree with him here…

As far as whether Game is necessary, any sex that doesn’t produce surviving offspring is just recreation. If your n count is 100, and no babies are produced or all potential babies are aborted, then it’s the same as n count 0 except for how it makes you feel. If women choose to sleep with the alpha players, then have babies with the beta shlubs, that’s the COMPLETE game.

This fundamentally ignores the biological root of women’s Hypergamy. The ideal evolutionary outcome is for a woman to optimize Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks. Ideally a woman who breeds and consolidates on monogamy with a man best exemplifying these aspects is the evolutionary “winner”. If that’s not possible, or not optimal, the ideal evolutionary winner is the woman who breeds with an Alpha Fucks man, and consolidates provisioning with a Beta Bucks man.

A lot of Blue Pill men feel a sense of vindication for the Epiphany Phase “success” they finally get with women once their long-term usefulness to women finally outweighs women’s ability to attract more Alpha Fucks ideal men. It’s a validation of their self-styled perseverance and some qualifier of  what they convince themselves is the ‘real‘ attractiveness women have for that self-righteous Beta provisioning.

The fact is that this is an old-order, old-SMP misbelief. In all of the eras preceding the advent of unilaterally feminine controlled birth control both sexes shared in the social responsibility of controlling women’s innate Hypergamy (AF/BB). However left to her own, unconditioned, expectation to responsibly assume control of her Hypergamy, women default to separate ideals for Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks.

In other words, women prefer a breeding model that separates men into two different varieties – the kinds of men women want to fuck and the kind they want to marry – or “the kind of man your mother wants you to marry and the kind of guy you leave him for to be with.”

So ensaturated into our social fabric is this understanding that even men will reinforce the archetypes. I have a 16 year old daughter, and even Rollo Tomassi would want his girl to be with ‘truck guy’ instead of ‘girly car guy’. Across all generations it just makes better sense, right?

I’ve mentioned this before in the Myth of the Good Guy. It’s amazing to me that men still seem to think they can embody the nobler aspects of both the Alpha Jerk and the comforting Beta to become a mythical Good Guy that women will naturally recognize, appreciate and prefer in comparison to the Jerkish Alpha Bad Boy or the Sympish Beta Nice Guy. The sell is one of combining the best of both archetypes and thereby satisfying women’s need for an optimized Hypergamy.

The mistake in this, of course, is presuming women have the foresight to identify and appreciate the aspects that should satisfy an optimized state of Hypergamy. What Good Guys don’t consider is that women simply don’t have the depth of experience with men needed to recognize or appreciate ‘the best of both types’ at various phases of their maturity.

For instance, young women in their peak SMV years (22-24) are simply not the demographic of women who complain of men’s lack of maturity, their unwillingness to commit or how they need to Man Up and accept some ‘grown up’ responsibilities. Peak SMV age women aren’t concerned with long term commitments or provisioning from nice, dependable, Beta men – they’re too preoccupied with enjoying that SMV peak with Alpha lovers, and understand that offers of commitment from Beta men are cheap and plentiful.

Yet even for an older, presumedly wiser, generation, the resourceful Alpha “has more sex appeal” than the sensitive, attentive, comforting Beta Herb male.

“I’d Rather Cry Over An Asshole Than Date A Guy Who Bores Me”

At least with the dick, there’s a spark there — even if it’s just one you’re trying to catch. At least with the asshole, you’re wasting your time on someone entertaining. At least with the guy who’ll bring you undeniable rage and pain, there’s a feeling there.

The problem with Good Guy ambitions of being the best of both Alpha excitement and Beta comfort is that women are incapable of appreciating either of these aspects simultaneously. The predominant need women feel for Beta comfort, dependability and provisioning during their Epiphany Phase just prior to the Wall is unrelatable to a woman in her peak SMV years when her predominant sexual focus is on exciting Alpha recklessness.

I speculated in Myth of the Good Guy that in today’s sexual marketplace women simply don’t believe the average man is capable of being the best of both types. I still hold to that assertion – only apex Alpha celebrity men are in anyway believable, but mostly due to women creating this optimized character for themselves. However, and probably more importantly, women aren’t interested in Alpha excitement and Beta trustworthiness in the same place, in the same man, at the same time.

This separation of Alpha exciting men from dependable (but boring) Beta men is a direct result of the social “empowerment” women have been afforded, and socially engineered by the Feminine Imperative, for the past 5 generations.

This separate-guys-for-separate-purposes is the end game for Socialized Hypergamy – left to the unilateral control of women, Hypergamy doesn’t recognize men who embody a long term optimization of Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks. Instead Hypergamy, unfettered by social restraint, prefers short term mating with exciting, but dangerous Alpha genetic potential, and an enforced long term responsibility to the cuckoldry of parentally invested, emotionally invested, dependable Beta providers.

The separate need for these archetypes does not occur at the same time in a woman’s progression of maturity. In fact the only area of overlapping need for these types is exactly the pre-Wall ages of 29-31 for women (i.e. the Epiphany Phase), the age range when the majority consensus of women agree that they want to marry and settle down.

From a strictly evolutionary perspective Striver’s assertion that Betas get the last laugh in the genetic olympics is correct. Nice Guys may finish last, but no one says they don’t finish at all. But do they finish best?

Unfortunately, on a subconscious level, women’s sexual strategies, which then translate into social doctrine, develop contingencies for duping Betas into provisioning for children not their own, or are ‘outsourced’ as parents once they’ve been removed from the family unit. Either that or they’re relegated to progressively sexless status of nominally male providership and parental investment.

A Beta fathering children is common, but there’s more to raising a child than just the combining of alleles.

Are Cads Outbanging Dads?

You’ll notice I titled this post “Are the cads outbanging the dads?” That was deliberate, because there remain questions about whether cads are actually breeding more or less than dads. Outbanging is different than outbreeding. A woman could casually ignore potential beta dads throughout her teens and 20s (her prime years) for a sterile ride on the cock carousel with alpha males, only to settle down later with a beta male and bear him 1.8 children. Cheap and easy contraceptives thwart the natural procreation advantage that alpha males would normally have over beta males in the state of nature, so it is very possible that alpha males could be winning the Banging Sweepstakes while losing the Breeding Sweepstakes.

Evidence that cad outbanging and supercharged female hypergamy is occurring resides in the later age of first marriage rates, and the lower overall marriage rate, as well as the higher STD rates among women.

And there is evidence for cad outbreeding as well. Serial monogamy — which is a form of soft polygyny — is on the rise, and men who have had more than one partner have more childrenthan men married to one woman.

On the other side of the debate are the GSS (General Social Survey) gurus who marshal self-reported evidence that dads are winning the breeding wars over cads.

I remain skeptical of the GSS data, but give it its due. My contention has never been that cads are having more children, but rather that cads are having more premarital sex than dads with higher quality (read: better looking) women when those women are in their sexual primes. This, not the discrepancy in fertility rates between alpha and beta males, is the contraceptively-aided shock wave that is roiling the sexual market and upending organic rules thousands, perhaps millions, of years old.

A society of both cad ascendence and civilization is unsustainable and incompatible. One or the other will go, and the pendulum with either swing back to dads or civilization will regress to accommodate the rise of women choosing cads. All social and economic indicators (particularly the debt overhang), and my personal experience in the bowels of the dating market, lead me to be pessimistic about a happy resolution to this building tension. Hopefully, I’m wrong, but in the meantime I’ll do what is necessary to secure my pleasure.

If the Chevy Colorado commercial is any gauge of our current sexual marketplace (and I realize it was supposed to be satirical), the female meta-desire for Alpha breeding opportunities far outstrips any notion that more Beta men are the preferred long-term parental mating choice of optimized Hypergamy.

This commercial is yet another shinning example of mainstream society’s increasing comfort with Open Hypergamy. In that post I outlined the conflict that occurs between women comfortable and prideful about revealing the duplicity of their sexual strategy, and the women less able to capitalize on that openness and cling to a secretive Hypergamy. However, men too are invested in that conflict.

When laws mandate a father be held financially and provisionally responsible for children that are not biologically his own (either by his choice or a woman’s overt cuckoldry) you can see how Hypergamy is literally an imperative that directs men’s lives to optimize it. In a social order founded upon women’s unrestricted Hypergamous influences no man, Truck Guy or Prius Guy, is ever truly the father of his child.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Mentats! (@PartyTimeMentat)

Altering any behavior, no matter how small, to get laid makes you a slave to women. You “game” and PUA people aren’t much better than bluepill betas. You’re doing it to please them, not yourself. You’re protestations otherwise are the the rationalization hamster spinning in its wheel. I’m not going to play this stupid game. I can’t win. No one is holding a gun to my head. I do not have to date/have sex with anyone. Saying I’m in it whether I want to be or not is bullshit. It’s just people trying to justify their lifestyle and saying I… Read more »

Wolf
7 years ago

For the good of the human genome, I will bang my way across Asia. I’ll keep a log of each woman I stay with, and then come to visit each town a few years later to repeat the process and to observe any progeny.

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

Altering any behavior, no matter how small, to get food makes you a slave to food. You’re doing it to please food, not yourself. Your protestations otherwise are the the rationalization hamster eating fast food

(btw only your first “you’re” was right, see above)

Mentats! (@PartyTimeMentat)

That’s what I get for post comments when I’m upset.

Johnycomelately
Johnycomelately
7 years ago

Hyperagamy and the dual AFBB didn’t occur in a vacuum, the bifurcation of societal norms facilitated the exploitation. The difference between Institutional societal norms (monogamy) and the actual culture (serial polygyny) has allowed women to be shielded from the consequences of their actions. The Bureaucratic Institutional culture doesn’t reflect the actual change on the ground, the legal system (always the most conservative and last to change), religion, government, established media, education etc., are all operating under the monogamy script. So much so that they’re even trying to force homosexuals into the monogamy paradigm. It’s interesting to observe that Institutional repression… Read more »

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

“That’s what I get for post comments when I’m upset”

the anger phase is okay, unless you’re stuck there

YaReally
YaReally
7 years ago

10×10 “But you should know, marriages of more than 8 year age difference are statistically rare ” Lol my whole LIFE has been “statistically rare”. Remember I’m talking 10-15 years from now. 10-15 years ago in like 1999 we couldn’t conceive of girls running sexually rampant, naked selfies left and right, tinder ONS shopping, hookup culture all over the place. Society changes and I’m just calling out the trend I’m noticing. 10-15 years is: – enough time for me to get my career on track and my finances handled – enough time for these 40yo feminists to be old and… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
7 years ago

*”…hands her money withOUT getting sex out of it.”

Important fix there my bad lol

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@Mentats! You’re just coming up with rationalizations and excuses instead of having the balls to go and get more out of life. Whether due to internal or external forces, to get more out of life you have to change. Period. You keep doing the same shit, you’re going to keep getting the same shit. You want to get better, you have to be better. Money, power, women, friends… it doesn’t matter what you’re talking about. You want it, you have to change to get it. I chose what I wanted and making changes is a consequence of that decision. You… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@YaReally

I hope you’re right, man. I hope I’m lucky enough to catch some of the beginnings of that shift.

cerveantescthree
cerveantescthree
7 years ago

@Kid Jupiter . . . I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there: “They throw the Beta Bait out there to see if you’ll bow to their pressure for commitment. If you cave in too quickly and take the bait, they then have their social validation (“my boyfriend!”), but they lose respect for you because taking the bait would be a Beta Tell in their estimation, and they’ll probably cheat on you to get their AF fix – especially at that age.” I have to agree with that, no more than that: that’s the fact of the matter.… Read more »

Kryptokate
Kryptokate
7 years ago

@ Mentats How old are you? Based on your posts, I’m guessing you are under 25 and likely still a teenager, and were raised in a privileged, pampered manner having all your material needs provided for you by your parents while you play video games and contribute nothing of value to the world. Because this idea you have that one should never have to make a modicum of effort or do anything one doesn’t want to do in order to get the things they want in life — and that to do otherwise makes one a slave — is not… Read more »

Mentats! (@PartyTimeMentat)

I just don’t want to expend the effort for women. They aren’t worth the effort. I’d rather focus my energy on things I do like.

Kryptokate
Kryptokate
7 years ago

@ cerveantescthree and YaReally Just curious: are these bitter, regretful 40-year old feminists who failed to lock down a man actually reflective of any human beings you have ever met? Or just a hypothetical figment of your imagination? I have never met anyone who meets that description so I’m curious if you actually have experience of this in real life or if it’s just a trope. I know plenty of women in their 40s, most of whom are busy with their work and children and too exhausted to spend time contemplating regrets or bitterness. I also know plenty who are… Read more »

Bluedog
7 years ago

@Rollo – What I think you are describing is a dis-entwining double-helix. It’s helical because each side -male and female- can be said to take a wave form of moving more towards “alpha” behavior and more towards “beta” behavior where “alpha” and “beta” apply to both sides. Think “alpha” woman as smoking hot with all sexual-arousal indicators dialed to 10, think “beta” woman as plain or even homely, but with child-raising, motherly features dialed up to 10. Women of course can be strong mixes of both. Men of course – in their own way that I don’t need to elaborate… Read more »

Kryptokate
Kryptokate
7 years ago

@ Mentats Fair enough. That’s a perfectly reasonable position. However, you seemed angry about it as if you thought that you *should* be able to get them without expending energy. That would be unreasonable. But if you just don’t think the gain is worth the effort and that you can make better gains elsewhere, that’s sound.

Kryptokate
Kryptokate
7 years ago

@ Bluedog Good analogy, and I would say that the increased “specialization” of men and women is also reflected in increased specialization in any other skill, like in academics or science. More technology means greater specialization and people don’t have to be everything. It also means people can pick and choose what elements provide value to them and seek out the most specialized, “best” people for each need. All of the theorizing here about politics and ideology, etc, are mostly irrelevant because the changes we see are driven by and governed by technology and that’s it. Culture follows technology not… Read more »

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

we drop Kate into northen Iraq, where she says:

“it’s because of technology that women can now enjoy men purely for their sex appeal and not have to worry about the other stuff because technology allows for a life of safety, security, and material abundance without worrying about violence and survival concerns”

the crowd cheers!

Johnycomelately
Johnycomelately
7 years ago

“I’m 24, and since I was 19, I’ve come across women – who are the same age as me; between 19-24 – that have complained at me precisely because of my unwillingness to commit, and have also told me I need to Man Up and accept some ‘grown up’ responsibilities.” Wanting a ‘boyfriend’ and desiring marriage are two different things. A one night stand isn’t called a pump and dump for nothing and no woman likes being dumped. Black Dragon coined the term ‘new relationship energy’, these so called commitment types are constantly chasing the ‘new relationship energy’ and want… Read more »

Bluedog
7 years ago

@Kryptokate – well said. Yes – the specialization we are seeing in human relationships is almost surely a tributary of one great river of specialization that is sweeping – everything. That too shows the danger of swallowing too hard on ideologies – including “red pill”. There may be insights but they shouldn’t be confused for a unified theory or – god forbid – empirical reality. Rollo is probably on to something with the “feminine imperative” because when you add up all women’s preferences and add and subtract each individual’s contribution, you get a certain, overall social vector – the vector… Read more »

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

“red pill” … shouldn’t be confused for … empirical reality

have you decided to specialize in horseshit or bullshit?

Badpainter
7 years ago

Kryptokate – “It’s because of technology that women can now enjoy men purely for their sex appeal and not have to worry about the other stuff because technology allows for a life of safety, security, and material abundance without worrying about violence and survival concerns.” Only so long as Men do all if the heavy lifting. If every woman took the next 30 days off from work civilization would be inconvenienced no doubt. But if every man took the next 30 days off the civilization would collapse. Your argument only works if 50% of the dirty jobs are being done… Read more »

cerveantescthree
cerveantescthree
7 years ago

@Ya Really I agree with you completely,but Kid Jupiter also had a strong analysis of this that I support too, he says that: “They throw the Beta Bait out there to see if you’ll bow to their pressure for commitment. If you cave in too quickly and take the bait, they then have their social validation (“my boyfriend!”), but they lose respect for you because taking the bait would be a Beta Tell in their estimation, and they’ll probably cheat on you to get their AF fix – especially at that age. If you resist the bait, they lose respect… Read more »

Bluedog
7 years ago

@redlight, re: February 7th, 2015 at 8:36 pm, …you get precisely one reply to content with that language and that is only because I am assuming you are just feeling hair trigger and will come to your senses. I take “red pill” to be the name of ideas – ideas like “alpha and beta”, ideas like “feminine imperative”. These ideas amount to testable hypotheses which may work sometimes, and other times don’t. That is categorically different from “empirical reality”. E=mc2 is an idea. A testable one. Not to be confused with empirical reality. Now – speaking of “red pill”, gotta… Read more »

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

I take “red pill”

either in the ass or orally

“you get precisely one reply to content with that language”

fuck off

kobayashii1681
7 years ago

“I’d Rather Cry Over An Asshole Than Date A Guy Who Bores Me”

These truths are self evident. Here’s to making them cry….

kobayashii1681
7 years ago

@Mentats: “I just don’t want to expend the effort for women.”

Then don’t…Expend efforts for YOU & yours!!! (Hobbies, cars, bikes, talents, your children!)

Jeremy
Jeremy
7 years ago

@Kate It’s because of technology that women can now enjoy men purely for their sex appeal and not have to worry about the other stuff Really? Do you own lots of weapons Kate? Are you armed to the teeth? Are you highly skilled with those weapons? Do you ever travel to areas, for work or pleasure, where you must be unarmed? If so, do you reply on the police (95% male)? In all situations, are you able to use technology to repel any male who might try to rob you or rape you in all cases? It sounds to me… Read more »

Jeremy
Jeremy
7 years ago

@Mentats! Altering any behavior, no matter how small, to get laid makes you a slave to women. This does not follow. Humans are adaptable creatures, that’s the greatest strength we have. If you’re going to argue for non-adaptability, you’re arguing against being human. Arguing for obstinate, set-in-stone personalities and behavior patterns is arguing against humanity’s greatest strength. You could rephrase your statement like this: “Altering how you sow your crops in Frontier America, no matter how small a change, just makes you a slave to mother nature.” But certainly you can see the problem with that argument, it could literally… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
7 years ago

@Kate http://www.filmixer.pl/galeria_pocz/Man-talk,James-Bond,3707.gif @bluedog “That too shows the danger of swallowing too hard on ideologies – including “red pill”. There may be insights but they shouldn’t be confused for a unified theory or – god forbid – empirical reality.” It’s not “who makes the most convincing insight arguments”. It’s mass crowdsourced reference experiences of hundreds of thousands of men over 10+ years compared and analyzed for consistent patterns. @cerveantescthree “Kid Jupiter also had a strong analysis of this that I support too, he says that” ya I understand what he’s saying and I agree with it (and the reasons why they… Read more »

Mr T.
Mr T.
7 years ago

Kryptokate – “It’s because of technology that women can now enjoy men purely for their sex appeal and not have to worry about the other stuff because technology allows for a life of safety, security, and material abundance without worrying about violence and survival concerns.”

@bp
@jeremy

Don’t hold that against Kate, this is what Rollo is saying about happy open hypergamy where men become nuisance.

“Not to worry about The other stuff ” she means ; not needing the beta provisions !
Hallelujah Kate
I’ll be fine with that.

LiveFearless
7 years ago

Rollo writes …aren’t interested in Alpha excitement and Beta trustworthiness in the same place, in the same man, at the same time

Therefore, it might be time to take the first step, especially a man that’s past age 35. It begins with an email.

Liz
Liz
7 years ago

“For instance, young women in their peak SMV years (22-24) are simply not the demographic of women who complain of men’s lack of maturity, their unwillingness to commit or how they need to Man Up and accept some ‘grown up’ responsibilities. Peak SMV age women aren’t concerned with long term commitments or provisioning from nice, dependable, Beta men – they’re too preoccupied with enjoying that SMV peak with Alpha lovers, and understand that offers of commitment from Beta men are cheap and plentiful.” They might not complain about it, or state this outright… but wouldn’t the fact that they tend… Read more »

Jeremy
Jeremy
7 years ago
Liz
Liz
7 years ago

Thanks Jeremy. 🙂
I understand that a man’s SMV is higher at an older age. But I think this is related more to provisioning than fecundating (aka “alpha seed”). I don’t see anything there that counters that.

From the link:
“By age 36 the average man has reached his own relative SMV apex. It’s at this phase that his sexual / social / professional appeal has reached maturity. Assuming he’s maximized as much of his potential as possible, it’s at this stage that women’s hypergamous directives will find him the most acceptable for her long-term investment.”

Nathan
Nathan
7 years ago

” Alpha is a state of mind, not a demographic.”

Rollo, we must be honest with them.

Alpha IS a state of mind manifested in behaviors AND alpha IS a demographic.

The truth is in the synthesis.

Sport players are majority alpha demographic Are

doctors are majority beta demographic.

chess team players majority baited demographic

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

“I understand that a man’s SMV is higher at an older age. But I think this is related more to provisioning …”

so you think a man’s SMV increases the more he is a beta bucks?

it’s always interesting to see a woman’s viewpoint on this

Badpainter
7 years ago

@ Liz There’s more than provisioning at work there. An older man should have all of shit together which would include dealing with women. One of the constant refrains I here from men my age is “if I had only known then what I know now,” which always refers to base game awareness. If that is not acted upon it’s for one of three reasons: 1. Risk to prior investments 2. A lack of motivation because these guys are still willingly compliant with social expectations about age appropriate relationships. They don’t see an advantage to be gained in dealing with… Read more »

Jeremy
Jeremy
7 years ago

Liz, women’s desires for what men need to be for them changes drastically over the female life cycle, and significantly over the course of each month. To think that a younger woman wants to date an older man because of he takes responsibility is to completely ignore relative SMV and the effectiveness of game-awareness in the SMP. If being a responsible man were an attraction factor, then significant portions of game would be devoted to “demonstrating being a responsible man.” Instead the term that is used is “Demonstrating higher value”. You can choose to believe that some women (perhaps even… Read more »

Liz
Liz
7 years ago

redlight: “so you think a man’s SMV increases the more he is a beta bucks?” Not exactly, I just think attraction (for women) is a complicated cost to benefits analysis. The guy standing in front of the truck, perceived as more attractive, really isn’t (IMO) so different from a guy in physician’s scrubs or BDUs (as compared to, say, a Domino’s pizza delivery outfit). I’m sure BP is right and some of it has to do with frame, and so forth. I’m sure Jeremy is right that a man doesn’t become more attractive via the discussing the subject of responsibility.… Read more »

Nathan
Nathan
7 years ago

the truck is an extension of himself.

it is literally seen as him.

the same is true with your cell phone home excetera. these objects are extensions of yourself

Badpainter
7 years ago

Nathan – “the truck is an extension of himself.” But it reveals little about his true self and why the truck is necessary. If he’s a poseur the truck is part of his costume. If he’s a contractor, or tradesman, the truck is tool. If he’s a successful rancher his Ford is old and beat up and used for work, and his new Chevy is for going to town on Saturday night. The truck doesn’t say much in and of itself but it does serve as a screen for other to project onto. Around here a new, shiny clean, 1/2… Read more »

Jeremy
Jeremy
7 years ago

@Liz But he does become more attractive when in positions of responsibility/ leadership/power and so forth. I think the line between BB and AF “attraction traits” are not so clearly delineated and more like the FATA between Afghanistan and Pakistan. This is amusing. It’s more women-speak for, “There’s really not that much difference between AF and BB, I can have both!” This is yet another example of women abdicating their responsibility for optimizing their own sexual strategy, and simply presuming that men will solve this problem for them. That comment by Liz is why game works. Not to mention the… Read more »

KP
KP
7 years ago

Mr. T.,

Any idea how to cap the god damn hypergamy? (please don’t mention any religious idea)

You DO realize you’re rejecting the most effective way, proven over generations and generations, of achieving your goal, right?

YaReally,

Long as I take care of my body I expect to be able to have sex through my 40s (Viagra if needed)…

Dude… when did you turn so pessimistic? You should be saying “60s” at least!

ManPersonNumber6762
ManPersonNumber6762
7 years ago

The danger that young women do not seem to think about is that when they are older, they will wind up “settling” for a husband, rather than choosing a man they are really comfortable with and confident in. Women have their window of prime appeal and marketability to men between the ages 18 – 25. Most women waste this time with men they cannot realistically get commitment and marriage from. Young attractive women are like celebrities with an abundance mentality regarding men during this time, they think it’s going to last forever, but of course it doesn’t. They hit 27,… Read more »

Nathan
Nathan
7 years ago

@Badpainter,

if something is incongruent then it’s an obvious negative.

the goal, and this should be obvious for those taking the red pill, is to be congruent with the extension of self

if you drive a truck you should be congruent with being a truck guy. and, as Rollo himself states, he wants his daughter with the (congruent) truck guy.

the real stupid shit is the sports cars guys

40 year olds driving Mustangs = complete lack of maturity

Badpainter
7 years ago

Nathan – “40 year olds driving Mustangs = complete lack of maturity”

Except if he’s a car guy. A car or truck is just a thing. If the thing being used as a fashion statement then you may be correct. But a car guy doesn’t give a fuck about how it affects his image because the car is congruent to his true self.

ManPersonNumber6762
ManPersonNumber6762
7 years ago

“40 year olds driving Mustangs = complete lack of maturity”

I don’t agree with this statement. If the guy likes and enjoys his Mustang, why not? Why is this a sign of immaturity? Should he be driving an economy car like a Toyota Camry instead to show he is mature?

Badpainter
7 years ago

Man Person – “Should he be driving an economy car like a Toyota Camry instead to show he is mature?”

Yes!

For the same reason he shouldn’t dare be dating a 25 year old woman. Because when your mental point of origin is in conforming to social expectation your decisions are made for you by your betters.

Liz
Liz
7 years ago

Jeremy: “Not to mention the goalpost moving in this discussion, when you consider Liz’s first comment… “They {women in peak SMV years} might not complain about it, or state this outright… but wouldn’t the fact that they tend to want to date older men more or less confirm they’re looking for that {men who accept ‘grown up responsibilities’} ?” So now, we’re not talking about “young women” seeking out “responsible men”, we’re talking about all women being attracted to men in power. So, yeah, forget everything Liz was trying to say at first, and just accept that her real point… Read more »

Urban Meyer
Urban Meyer
7 years ago

YaReally described the girl I’m currently seeing to a T. I’m 28 and she’s 25, she loves to cook and is working on her career but wants to settle down by 30, have kids and stay at home. I feel the pull to try and lock her down but also know I’m coming into my best years as a guy. I’m starting to see my options open up as I improve myself mentally and physically, and I haven’t experienced as much as I would like where settling down is my next best move. Reading and hearing stories about women doing… Read more »

Kryptokate
Kryptokate
7 years ago

@ Jeremy & Badpainter Of course I realize that women are not responsible for the technology that all of us now benefit from in the form of material abundance. But neither are the vast majority of people responsible for it. Technology has always been created by a very tiny percentage of people…the 2% or so who have actual talent and interest in science and engineering, and yes, the vast majority of that 2% are men. But the great bulk of humanity is just riding off of and enjoying what a minuscule proportion of people have created. Yes, men must still… Read more »

Kryptokate
Kryptokate
7 years ago

@ cerveantescthree Thanks for the advice, but I prefer to hone my ideas against the grindstone of dissenting opinions just as much as I polish them with the oil of supporting and helpful thoughts. @ bluedog I agree that Stoicism can be highly useful in modern times, with its emphasis on mindfulness and working towards optimization of the virtues in oneself. As a manner of self improvement, stoicism does not require resistance to change or ideological rejection of modernity or the future but can be quite useful for navigating the turbulence. Marcus Aurelius’ Meditations was in fact the first read… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@YaReally I’m not sure how to describe the difference between the “fish for a boyfriend” shit-test and the “no but seriously, please settle down with me ASAP I don’t want to ride the cock carousel” thing that’s starting to sprout. The boomerang women are exactly like the shit testers in the results it sounds like. Either way she’s gonna go off to fuck another guy. How do you know the boomerang was going to stay if you didn’t treat it like a shit test? The fact that she came back? She’s still trying to assert that she’s a SIW with… Read more »

Mr.C
Mr.C
7 years ago

I realise that I am nit picking, but how much does the Truck cost to buy, run and maintain and how much does the Toyota Corolla (that’s what it looks like) cost to buy, run and maintain?
My guess is that the truck costs more on all fronts.
The implication being that Truck guy also has more money/resources.

Mr T.
Mr T.
7 years ago

Adele dedicated this song to a sexy beta! I let it fall, my heart, And as it fell you rose to claim it It was dark and I was over Until you kissed my lips and you saved me My hands, they’re strong But my knees were far too weak, To stand in your arms Without falling to your feet But there’s a side to you That I never knew, never knew. All the things you’d say They were never true, never true, And the games you play You would always win, always win. But I set fire to the… Read more »

Mr T.
Mr T.
7 years ago

Open hypergamy and the collapse of marriage isn’t just an American phenomenon, it’s happening in Europe, in Asia in south America.
Is it the results of capitalism and consumerism or poverty?
Is it inevitable that women would become the superior gender and upsetting the 100 thousands years of evolution?

Do the world need a UN conference on hypergamy control like the climate control?.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@Mr T.

Stop looking at it as a fixable problem. While it might self-correct, for now the individual is best off accepting reality for how it is and devoting his energies to furthering his own goals.

LiveFearless
7 years ago

@Rollo has written: Alpha can only be a man’s dominant personality origin. There is no Beta with a side of Alpha because that side of Alpha is NEVER believable when your overall perception is one of being Beta to begin with…Alpha is a mindset, not a demographic As you’re reading this, you may be choosing to believe your doctor that told you your testosterone level is normal or high, Yet, that Alpha mindset just doesn’t make sense to you. Your doctor may not have called for the lab to split testosterone into its parts. ‘Free’ testosterone is like the Fedex… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
7 years ago

Far as the truck stuff goes I don’t even get how the truck is relevant lol Why would she even see your truck? You just meet up with her somewhere within walking distance of your apartment and bang her on that first meet. She won’t see what I drive until she asks for a ride home in the morning and if she’s turned off by my vehicle it’s like who cares I already banged her lol and she’ll rationalize that my vehicle is cool because she wouldn’t sleep with a “loser” so for her to tell herself she slept with… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
7 years ago

@Sun Wukong “Stop looking at it as a fixable problem. While it might self-correct, for now the individual is best off accepting reality for how it is and devoting his energies to furthering his own goals.” I would suggest that it’s not a “problem” at ALL. I LIKE Hypergamy. I wouldn’t WANT to live in a world where some buttfuck negative 300lbs loser who just sits in a basement eating Doritos and playing Warcraft all day can shuffle out to the club in his grubby sweatpants and greasy hair with awkward social skills and no goals or hobbies in life… Read more »

Nathan
Nathan
7 years ago

@Ya ” The big indicators of this being an actual cultural shift will be when we start seeing articles on the net by women claiming that taking care of your man and household is something to be admired and is the new empowered woman who prides herself on nurturing others instead of slaving away in a cubicle etc. etc. like where they slander the thing they’ve been promoting as success, and hold up the thing they’ve slandered as the new success. If we start seeing articles like that in the next <5 years, that's going to be a big indicator."… Read more »

Softek
Softek
7 years ago

@ LiveFearless

Do you have to fly out there to set up a meeting or can you do everything online? I’ve seen some places where you can get doctors to order tests and prescriptions for you completely online — that would be ideal.

cervantesscthree
7 years ago

@YaReally “no but seriously, please settle down with me ASAP I don’t want to ride the cock carousel” is a good way to describe it. Yr explanation of the differences sound accurate to me: “Like, it’s not a GOOD strategy yet, and as I said they haven’t figured out exactly what to bring to the table yet to make high-value guys want to commit in 2015 (like the girls who want me to LTR them don’t realize that “oh I hate cooking I just eat out or microwave stuff” makes me rule them out as potential LTR/mother-of-my-kids material), but it’s… Read more »

Fit
Fit
7 years ago

“However, and probably more importantly, women aren’t interested in Alpha excitement and Beta trustworthiness in the same place, in the same man, at the same time.”

Rollo, been reading your blog for years. This sentence captures everything. Tough to admit, but it is Truth.

LiveFearless
7 years ago

@Softek online, phone. I’ve been to the office, great view, but it’s not necessary as long as you live in the U S.

YaReally
YaReally
7 years ago

@cervantesscthree To clarify my own quote upon reading it in your comment: “Like the pattern I notice is the girl will go off to find an LTR guy but the guy will end up being lame or the LTR will end up being boring and I get a txt from her and she either dumps him to come bang me again or cheats on him with me because the sex is more exciting.”” At first glance this seems like a contradiction from my next post where I said these girls don’t cheat with me, but the wording is very careful… Read more »

Fred Flange's smashits
Fred Flange's smashits
7 years ago

@YaReally: If you’re still advising married guys I would recommend Athol’s first book from 2011, The MMSL Primer. That one is pretty Red Pill and it’s still got gold in it. I’m a fan of that first book. If your married guy students are going to want reference literature I would pick that and Rollo’s book as the one-two punches. The only weird section of MMSL Primer was the scientifically dubious descant on Fighting Sperm (i.e., Alpha Sperm fights off and conquers dweeby Beta sperm yeah surre maybe but I couldn’t find any real backup for it). Did NOT get… Read more »

Bluepillprofessor
Bluepillprofessor
7 years ago

@Rollo: “Once MMSL became Athol’s primary source of income and he brought his wife and other women into his “coaching staff” any credibility he had was lost. He’s found a niche for sure –selling men on the idea that their was a cure for their DeadBedrooms and selling their wives on the hope that their men would Alpha up but never doubt that they’re still in control.” You nail it on MMSL on every cylinder. Married Red Pill (MRP) is a Reddit http://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/ created as an alternative to MMSL where RP and unplugging married and LTR guys can talk about… Read more »

Fred Flange's smashits
Fred Flange's smashits
7 years ago

That Reddit is promising. I will bookmark it. I note they also cite the Robert Glover book too – the third leg of the literary stool, though it was written when Red Pill thinking was at its most embryonic. Must be read with that in mind.

+100 about the Observer effect. Negates the whole point of trying to effect this kind of personal change when the intended subject knows you’re doing it. Dread is not Dread if it is known to be a feint, a tactic.

447
447
7 years ago

On a personal level – the conclusions are obvious: Don’t talk about it, use it, get what you want. Game covers that extrensivly – with some practise, you can get there. On the level of society itself – in the last three articles, Rollo continues to make very valid points that stand in stark contrast to his continued refusal to “admit” to something very simple: The control of female sexuality (due to it’s evolutionally backwards and socially disruptive nature) should rest with…just about absolutly anybody (even the pope or a pimp would be more qualified) BUT women themself. The reason… Read more »

447
447
7 years ago

“I think even the uber-Beta guys can Alpha up just fine and get the sex life they want in a marriage. They don’t have to be the apex Alpha. They just have to get Alpha enough to bring the tingles. I think the outlook is more positive than you think. Women respond quite well to just a little bit of game and the wife is often the easiest woman to game once you get going.” Somebody who tells you he games “his” wife is already invalidating everything he says – because even the semantics are already skewed: She is not… Read more »

eric
eric
7 years ago

Rollo, great post, even better advice on the comment section. You said any transformation for a woman defeats the purpose of change.. can you elaborate?

I’m 22, jumping from job to job, and internalized a lot of truths here, and working on my social skills and social dominance and everything necessary so I can get laid lol. In my view this is sex transmutation, changing so you can get a better shot at getting girls and live a more congruent and fulfilling lifestyle.

Thanks, I’m learning on the go

Mentats! (@PartyTimeMentat)

Rollo:

It’s not that I don’t think it works. It’s that everything I’ve learned makes women sound like the Scorpion in the fable of the Scorpion and the Frog.

http://allaboutfrogs.org/stories/scorpion.html

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@YaReally lol well for me specifically it doesn’t matter because I’m not trying to date her so I don’t care if she bangs other guys. Oh obviously. I wasn’t referring to your current game. I guess I was referring to guys interested in the idea of LTR that might get suckered in by the boomerang act. I mean if I’m wanting to LTR a chick, fucking other guys is something that I want off the menu for her. Were she to go out, fuck other dudes, then come back saying “OK I’m ready to spend our lives together now!”, my… Read more »

LiveFearless
7 years ago

@Mentats! (@PartyTimeMentat) I do not have to date/have sex with anyone

You’re correct.
You do not have to.

For other men, if you think it might be “low testosterone.
See a doctor about TRT.”

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
7 years ago

“.. this is still a small percent of girls. The big indicators of this being an actual cultural shift will be when we start seeing articles on the net by women claiming that taking care of your man and household is something to be admired ..” This would of course be coincident with the main base station repeaters of the feminist cult actually dying out, in a welter of cat-litter, Gitanes, chardonnay and selfies, or hieing themselves off to Dignitas. Like the Shakers or the Skoptsy, their ideology is inherently self-limiting (except where the state insists on playing sugar-daddy ;… Read more »

Devil's Advocaat
Devil's Advocaat
7 years ago

Devil’s Advocaat “the advent of unilaterally feminine controlled birth control” This dynamic must have been played out in othe species… Maybe we can learn something… When a subspecies of wasps, for instance, developed unilateral female control over reproduction, (the ability to store sperm) societal males became superfluous. The subspecies I refer to eventually evolved into – ANTS! Some ant facts… – Only one female (the queen) breeds. – Queen ants are impregnated once and use that single store of sperm to fertilise her eggs for the rest of her breeding life. – The (still winged) male ants, only appear during… Read more »

MikePhil
MikePhil
7 years ago

@ Mentats To your comment on the 7th at 5:55… I’d argue that altering your behavior to get laid this doesn’t make you a performing monkey, from any perspective. For instance, let’s say I’m about 15 lbs overweight, and I want to get that weight down to my college level. Therefore, I change my behavior; I determine why I’m scarfing Doritos and donuts (unhappy that I’m overweight, so I anesthetize myself), swap that for a healthier behavior (eating my veggies and lean protein), modify my behavior from sitting to working out and viola! I’m back in shape. And I am… Read more »

Devil's Advocaat
Devil's Advocaat
7 years ago

” There is no topic you can consider that I haven’t already address”

Oh yeah, how about strip-club dynamics?

Keep it up Rollo. Site and book have been like water in the desert

447
447
7 years ago

“It’s not that I don’t think it works. It’s that everything I’ve learned makes women sound like the Scorpion in the fable of the Scorpion and the Frog.” Apply red pill razor: Maybe they sound like that because they ARE like that. 😉 Simple things are simple: The more sexual freedom and/or social power they have, the more they become the “scorpion” to stable, *modern* society. –> direct relation, exponential growth of social dysfunction (from the POV of a stable nation state protecting & enhacing it’s population, ofc) Doesn’t mean one can’t enjoy life – just that enjoyment and what… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
7 years ago

Fear of paper tigers…. So which man is pandering more to the feminine imperative? The “alpha” or the “beta”? The man who aspires or considers himself to be the white knight good provider beta AND the man who aspires or considers himself to be the asshole gaming alpha are BOTH pandering to the feminine imperitive. BOTH are experiencing a sense of self devaluation to even compare themselves to this dynamic. BOTH seek her approval and are negotiating for her attention in one way or the other. Why else would anyone make the comparison? BOTH are puppets of this plural hypergamy.… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
7 years ago

Yes. The FI and hypergamy are her frame……don’t try to define yourself in her frame.

Razorwire
Razorwire
7 years ago

Super Bowl car commercials instructing on fatherhood was an interesting theme. Some nissan commercial. The father is a race-car driver (alpha) who is shown to be frequently absent to pursue his racing career while mom and son struggle through the day-to-day. But he is always there to perform in the beta moments. Plus, he’s on TV. In the end, he picks up teen son in a sporty-but-sensible nissan. Almost a tear in his eye. He’s the alpha with side of beta. Maybe he has been tamed, retired from racing to sell insurance now. Of course, it is not about him… Read more »

Badpainter
7 years ago

Razor wire – “Based on the women in the truck commercial, who are a fairly realistic representation of what is out there, I’d rather ride my bike and take transit, and borrow my friends truck when I need to haul shit.”

Brilliant. Applies to all fashion statements. And fashion is ultimately little more than a display of one’s willingness to conform to expectation, and the ability to spend within that conformity.

gregg
gregg
7 years ago

Of course game IS feminine. Maculine would be – spot the woman you like, take her and fuck her. If necessary, beat your oponnents but after no man stands in your way, take her and fuck her. Men have the strenght and clarity to do this, but are no longer in position to use it. So they are forced to enter the women´s word of covert communication, manipulation, little lies, etc. They are forced to try to beat women at their own game. And that ain´t easy without massive experience and knowledge. Small minority of men have the manipulation skills… Read more »

forgethesky
forgethesky
7 years ago

“They all invented strict rules, subdued women to them and enforced them. This all was abolished without understanding of WHY it existed in the first place.”

Aka Chesterton’s Fence. A useful concept.

GhostOfJefferson
GhostOfJefferson
7 years ago

What a lame commercial. What kind of guy drives “a four door truck” with a stunted, nearly useless “bed” that you cannot lay down a piece of sheet rock or standard sized 8 foot length 10×2’s in in, let alone haul anything useful outside of a bbq grill for an officially state and corporate sanctioned “tailgate party!(tm)”? Two doors, full sized bed, four wheel drive option where you have to get out and lock things in place by hand (since it actually has to pull heavy loads and not just Mom and the Kids), and if you can’t haul a… Read more »

ManPersonNumber6762
ManPersonNumber6762
7 years ago

Hypergamy is just a womans’ greed and laziness. Men really have no idea how base and depraved womens’ true nature is. Men have no idea how far and different womens’ thinking is compared to men. Most women will prostitute themselves in marriage, with no real feelings for the man at all. He is nothing but a disposable and replaceable utility to her.

447
447
7 years ago

@Not Born This Morning: “Is man’s identity now supposed to be defined by this shallow pop culture, “feminine imperitive”, “hypergamy” dualistic classification? Is this how we men should envision ourselves? “You can be the alpha fuck-a-lot or the beta good-dad-provider or some vague combination of both”…….”But that’s all you’re ever going to be, and that’s all women will ever see you as……..” If this is how you prefer to define yourself, then this is what you will be.” You draw the outlines of a dilemma that does not have to exist. In my opinon, this where *real* Inner Game comes… Read more »

ManPersonNumber6762
ManPersonNumber6762
7 years ago

Lets test your RP game awareness. Here is a thought exercise for everyone: Is Smoove B an alpha or beta?:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/you-will-be-my-everything,37975/

stankfist@stankfist.com
stankfist@stankfist.com
7 years ago

If any of this shit were true, EVERY man on Earth since about 10,000 BC would be an “alpha male.” Everyone else would have been bred-out of the gene pool.

Lone Survivor
Lone Survivor
7 years ago

Rollo, first and foremost I really appreciate your material as it is a great eye opener. That being said, I will be recurrent and say that you continue to use the feminine-imperative-based “alpha” and “beta” terms. Such terms are not only emasculating (as they define men in terms of their sexual approval by women) but also miss a HUGE picture. In nature, the “alpha” male is the one that has the highest amount of OFFSPRING with the HIGHEST NUMBER OF FEMALES. Evolutionarily speaking, such “alpha” males will increase the relative abundance of their genes in the population and have a… Read more »

trackback
6 years ago

[…] men to accept it. Thus we have Open Hypergamy both subtly and triumphantly waved in our mainstream advertising, our pop-culture, our social media, our music and even the movies we take our kids to […]

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[…] Two Camps […]

trackback
6 years ago

[…] narrative about their own Hypergamy. It’s one thing to make Hypergamy ‘open’ in a commercial or in a book by an empowered woman, but let a man reveal it in his perspective and he’s […]

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