Topping from the Bottom

 

topping

In last week’s post I had an exchange with yet another attention seeking girl of 25. I wont be giving her any more than what she already thinks is her due writing for XOJane, however the topic of BDSM came up and I wanted to explore that a bit this week.

It’s no coincidence that the movie adaptation of 50 Shades of Grey is opening on Valentines Day this Saturday, so rather than my annual V-Day post I figured I’d also do a bit of early prognosticating about the knots the fem-stream media will be tying themselves into by this time next week.

Just as a recap, the exchange with this girl centered on her dissatisfaction with her boyfriend’s assertiveness and dominant status with her. At her insistence he Alpha’d up for her, but I was incredulous about her believing he’d done so, and with any amount of genuineness. For a man to Just Get It, he must get it on his own. Any woman inserting herself into the process of him just getting that he ought to be more dominant with her defeats the legitimacy of that change with her.

Observing a process will change that process. Just as genuine desire cannot be negotiated, neither can genuine change in a man’s mindset be negotiated at a woman’s insistence.

Hypergamy only believes the dominance of a man that a woman finds in him, never the one a woman needs to create in him.

During this exchange our goth girl mentioned she was into BDSM and the whole picture came into perspective:

Now I got it.

Sub in the dungeon, Dom in public. Most women into (overt) BDSM have issues with reconciling their desire for being dominated by a man and submitting to him in any other aspect of life.

I’m not surprised you felt the need to ask him to be more dominant. It’s not about his asserting himself with others it’s about your need for a genuinely dominant man giving you tingles. You want him to dominate you, but it doesn’t come naturally to him.

It sounds better to promote the image of him being a socially dominant character who’s come into it because you want that guy to be the character you fantasize he is in the dungeon.

You want a guy who’s genuinely dangerous, objectifying and powerful when you’re having sex, but you want the security and trust that comes from knowing he’s really safe, in control and socially dominant enough to ensure your security with his decisions.

That’s why BDSM is appealing to feminists. The dominance gets them off because it’s wrong, a taboo they shouldn’t really like because the feminist dogma says it’s disgusting to submit to a man (especially for an “empowered” woman), but the fantasy aspect of it legitimizes the desire and separates the “real” woman from the “sex act” woman.

I’m using the term “dungeon” metaphorically here, but I think it’s apt for any sex environment we put ourselves into with another person. One of the many aspects of masculine ridicule is the caricature of the strong, dominant business man paying for and playing the role of pathetic, tortured submissive to his vinyl-clad dominatrix with a whip, knee-boots and a bad attitude. The cliché serves the purpose of male ridicule of course, but it also reinforces the the latent message that those CEOs who rule the world, in their sexual selves, are really pathetic ass lickers who get off on humiliation from strong, independent women. Their sexual identities is who they really are.

Commenter 447 followed me up in that thread:

Things/actions that are called BDSM or can be put into that category (which can even be acts without any fetish objects, basically even normal, hard sex where the man just has his way with a female can be put there by twisting semantics) just *concentrate and thereby CORNER* all of femininity into ONE corner of the spectrum of life: Sex.

That explains a lot – from the massive number of Shades of Grey-Copies sold to the (sometimes almost comical) attempt of many young women to be “sexually perverted” even if they are not:

It is the only socially acceptable form known to them to be truly female today: By being a “whore”.

Only banged one feminist – can just add +1 to the description above – the more feminst bullshit they talk, the more they desire to be a sex slave or even an abused victim(!) in the bedroom. +1 to “explanations for rape hysteria” btw.

Roleplaying Games

As women find themselves coming into the open acceptance of Hypergamy and recognizing the social control they wield, the overstated perception they have with regard to their sexual market value will inflate with their collective egos. We address this often in the manosphere about how women’s self-perception of their SMV is grossly, unrealistically, inflated by social networks, media and popular culture. My assertion here is that BDSM – not just the overt kind, but the interplay of dominance and submission in any sexual intercourse – will become women’s fantasy outlet for a natural desire to be dominated by men.

In the case I illustrated with the CEO relegating himself to his mistress as a slave, so too will women’s sexual selves be a role they’ll play, and that role will be normalized for women through a feminine-primary social order. While men can be comfortably ridiculed for their desire to be dominated, women are sold the idea that their sexual selves are not their real selves, thus the need to be submissive can be forgiven of the strong independent woman® because her sexual self is not “who she really is.”

The Feminine Imperative defines for men that his ridiculous sexual identity is who he really is, but for women her sexual identity is a role she plays that insulates her from her real ’empowered’ identity. Through this roleplaying, women can reconcile and satisfy their real need of masculine dominance while maintaining the strong independent woman® identity that feminine-primary society expects of them.

In this sense women are put into a socially acceptable, socially expanded, form of topping from the bottom. The idea is that women can safely control and accommodate that want of sexual submission without losing self-respect by challenging the feminine social narrative of female state control. So long as that desire and the act are considered a fantasy that they can separate their true selves from, the sexual submission to a dominant man they desire can be balanced and reconciled if that act isn’t who they really are.

Furthermore there is a tantalizing sexual wrongness to engaging in submission only in a sexual theater. This is what fem-stream media will twist itself into knots about in the week following the opening of 50 Shades of Grey. In an era of Yes Means Yes consent forms and fantastical, falsified, rape hysteria, the go-to rationale for the runaway success that 50 Shades of Grey will undoubtedly be will be exactly this “its a fantasy so it’s ok, it’s not the real woman” separation of desire and ego preservation.

This is how the rape fantasy elements will be dealt with in the aftermath of so wildly popular a movie. It turns women on because it’s not supposed to turn them on. What fem-blogs will confront is the true nature of women’s Hypergamy being openly (likely proudly) embraced, but at the same time conflicting with the rape culture messaging that’s been pounded into our collective consciousness for the better part of 2014. Feminine duplicity will be on display and women will either say it’s their due, it’s “not for real” or that it’s Patriarchal sexual repressiveness that’s brought them to this (male shame).

Dalrock delivered this fantastic comment in one of my threads years ago, but I’m reminded of it now:

These women don’t just want to build a better beta, they want to tame the alpha. In fact, I think the former is just another way they are trying to approach the latter. They want to take an inherently unsafe activity and make it safe. They want to submit to a man without having to submit; they want a man who can tame their feral self. They want him to trip their danger signals. Even better if he is a stranger from a strange land.

They want this all to happen without giving up their freedom; they want to play this out in the context of serial monogamy, so they can feel loved while also claiming their promiscuity is moral. They want to lose control to a string of strangers who have all of the hallmarks of very dangerous men, and they want a promise that this will always end well.

They want to know that this will be safe, without it losing the excitement of it feeling unsafe. They are telling men to build a sort of serial monogamy amusement park where they can ride the roller coaster and experience the fear of falling or crashing, while knowing that just behind the scenes grown ups are actually in charge and are responsible for them safely feeling unsafe.

One more thing. As I mentioned above they don’t want to be hemmed in. So instead of building an actual amusement park, they want roller coasters to spring up randomly in the same exact circumstances where the real danger they mimic would appear. They want to be driving their car on the freeway one instant, and the next experience the fear of careening out of control the next. They want to impulsively jump off the edge of the Grand Canyon and have a parachute appear and deploy at the last minute. And all they ask is your guarantee that all of this will be safe.

The safeness women hope to effect for themselves can’t be entrusted to men. The dominant Alphas are inherently dangerous, and the more Beta men are too commonplace and less empowered than women themselves. The solution then is to rig the social structure to accommodate women’s thrill-seeking by socially expecting men to accept being topped from the bottom irrespective of “who a woman really is.”

The main reason ‘goth girl’ will never be content with a boyfriend she had to encourage to be more dominant is because his passivity was his mental point of origin for him. He’s already safe, before he’s allowed to play the role of dominance by her.

A Note About V-Day

If you haven’t read my previous V-Day post you may want to before Saturday. Considering it falls on a weekend and the impending “we’re just as sexual as men” lather women will likely work themselves into over 50 Shades, it might be a good refresher. I understand that some of my manosphere contemporaries are getting onboard with the billing that 50 Shades’ release will make for orgy-like conditions on V-Day, and while I’ll concur for the most part I think there are far more significant considerations men need to be aware of.

For the married or LTR man who’s wife insists on taking him to see the movie, or one who insists on a GNO with her semi-monogamous girlfriends there will be no post-movie orgy. One of the most common rationales I hear from men when their woman wants to go off with her friends to a male strip ‘revue’ is “hey, let her go have a good time, she’ll just bring that sexual impulse home to me, right?” These men are only rationalizing their part in their own cuckoldry.

The real question is how into sex do you think your wife would be after your coming home from hitting the strip club with your boys, downing three $12 appletinis and smelling like stripper perfume? Or better yet, perhaps you suggest you both hit a strip club together after you watch 50 Shades? You’re only taking that sexual energy home for each other after having outside sexual cues turn you on. Christian Grey will be the man fucking your wife while you sit on and watch.

For single men the situation is a pussy bonanza if you can play the ‘lonely hearts club’ Game correctly. On any other V-Day I’d suggest men capitalize on GNOs and women commiserating about how inadequate men are these days while they tie one on. The likelihood that an order of 50 million women will have seen 50 Shades just prior to hitting the bars with their girls on this night only makes your efforts that much easier with better sexual dividends.

While not overtly playing the Christian Grey role, if you cop the dominant energy (or if that’s what you’re about already) you can help a girl work off that energy. It would be too easy to say these women will be primed for Game, but remember, feminine-primary acculturation has taught her to justify the action of her sexual self apart from her real self. Saturday night may be the one time getting a girl to sign a sexual consent form will work in a man’s favor.

All that said, the opportunity for observing open Hypergamy in the field will be hard to ignore. Enjoy the mental-hamster contortions women will use to justify behaving exactly like the cads they claim to hate, and their sad sack Beta men sitting dutifully at home changing diapers while the girls are being girls. My advice would be to use that open Hypergamy environment to your advantage, but demonstrate it, don’t explicate it to them.

Be aware. You will see a great many Red Pill truths come to light in a short time frame. It may be a shinning opportunity to make your Blue Pill friend Red Pill aware.

299 comments

  1. Went to the movies this weekend with the wife and kids to see Sponge Bob movie. The previews showed this one movie (can’t remember the name) of a cartoon father, mother and young daughter sitting at the table. At one point the girl says something the mother doesn’t like and the scene switches to four characters that represent the various personalities inside the mother’s head. They mull over possible things to say and one character says to get the father to do something for once. So she says something and then we go into the father’s head where four characters represent the personalities in his head. One of the voices warns that the wife said something but he didn’t hear it and better respond promptly or get in trouble. Long story short, he’s made to look foolish, the daughter is disrespectfully yelling at him, and one of the characters in the wife’s head ends up talking about the sexy man of her past that she should have gone with instead of getting married.

    The message is going out to these young girls. The women in the audience were chuckling. I remember seeing two other previews where men were not portrayed well either.

  2. If spouse suggests GNO to see movie with the girls, what’s the best (LTR game appropriate) response? Shrug shoulders, no fucks given or dismissive laughter?

  3. “For a man to Just Get It, he must get it on his own.”

    Related, every woman demands that her bf or husband fight, at least once, for her.

    The whole “let’s you and him fight”

    It is what it is.

  4. @newlyaloof

    “The message is going out to these young girls. The women in the audience were chuckling. I remember seeing two other previews where men were not portrayed well either.”

    The rooster has always received a lot of unsolicited loud squalking and clucking from the hen house….

  5. last fall Canada was up in arms against one of the most celebrated radio/tv personality Gian Ghomashie.
    he was all into BDSM it was a hysteria for three months ,woman after woman came out claiming he forced them into BDSM . the guy`s life is destroyed . I cant wait to see how the movie is going to be viewed in Canada.
    http://www.macleans.ca/tag/jian-ghomeshi/

  6. Rollo , pay attention to Canada on the release day.

    I wish you had reporters working for you to have a live coverage from every movie theater which screen the movie .
    it would be a vindication for everything you had written .
    ps
    lets see if Feminists will hold demonstrations

  7. @Rollo: Disney also embraces Hyper Inflation apparently as the tab for four tickets was $60. Hadn’t gone to a movie in years, and I won’t be going for a few more either. Should have called this movie Hypergamy Inside Out.

  8. Alpha Widows are so funny. Ridiculous men are too, but who’d want to fuck them? Ahhh, Brazilian bush pilot *tingle*…

    Imagine the guy isn’t fixated on Soccer and is instead thinking about banging their daughter’s teenage babysitter. Sorry Pixar, no sale.

  9. Nice Post.

    I have 2 small comments:

    1) I reiterate that a man can be sufficiently “unsafe” (ensuring arousal) and “safe” (ensuring comfort). I once read some data, for example, that suggested that women like men with very testoserony faces but who also had feminine features mixed in (full lips, thick hair, etc). I don’t think it does a service to your readers to imply that men fall into either the completely unsafe category or the chump category – it makes it less likely that they’ll strive to balance themselves out to attract more women and instead just give up.

    2) Shit testing is another way that women try to “top from the bottom.” Shit testing is a woman BEGGING to be put in her place. One positive thing about shit tests is that if you pass them, you are better off in terms of the degree to which the woman finds you dominant than if the test had never been administered.

    Random aside:
    I like to be dominated in bed just as much as the next girl, but god the 50 shades of grey thing looks so lamely done. It makes me cringe.

  10. Rollo,

    Continueing the last posts discussion…….

    This is it, our lives are defined as such, this is all there is? Like a religion, “those who choose not to decide have made a choice”. The orchestrator is omniscient and defines reality….creates the universe…..until?

  11. @Rollo
    Disney embraces Open Hypergamy

    … wow.

    Disney, often the bastion of playing it safe socially, really does embrace open hypergamy in just the trailer. I can’t imagine how the whole movie continually shits on fathers as incompetent schlubs that no woman could or should love. Does it end with mom and daughter saving the day (no thanks to BetaDad) as only smart sassy women can?

    Side note: the idea of beta males as pussies and pushovers has become so main stream and openly accepted that this summer my mother enthusiastically discussed what a beta my stepfather is right in front of him. Like explicitly called him “a beta male”. He nodded dutifully and agreed with his dopey grin. I was disgusted with both of them; her for disrespectfully stomping on a man’s masculinity right in front of him, him for letting her. Explains a lot about what I’ve had to overcome though. I don’t think she realized at all where a lot of my own relationship problems have come from and why I would find her attitude absolutely infuriating. Certainly the most vivid illustration of Open Hypergamy and AWALT I’ve seen yet.

    My father was not alpha, by the way. Just violent and abusive. However that’s the image feminism sells of alpha to women, my mother included.

  12. I wondered how that girl ended up being rated on your twitter.
    The role playing of this is not how we really are is a derivative of whenever a woman was found out about what could be perceived as a indiscretion she was involved in, she always claimed she was taken advantage of.
    The spin on the rape fantasy elements of the movie will probably be about how she was actually in control someway. Or the typical exploring her sexuality, the real strength is in submission. The commercial or previews for it already show a scene where he asks her “is this what you really want?”. And she holds her hands up, with him holding a rope I think, and looks up and simply says “yes”. So I’m expecting that this is going to be used somehow as an affirmation of how necessary “yes means yes” is.
    Also expecting, don’t know if the book ends this way, but he’s somehow going to fall for her, have some kind of conflict with everything they did, and she’s going to have to turn him down because this was all about fun for her. Passive payback to all the guys who lied to them.
    Like the ending to “Fading Gigolo”. John Turturro’s in the middle of a threesome with Sharon Stone and Sofia Vergara and looses his steam because he’s fallen in love with the plain jewish character he was seeing played by Vanessa Paradis. She turns him down because it turns out she wants to be with Leiv Schreiber’s character, even though through the whole movie she was barely giving him any thought or attention.

  13. “…because her sexual self is not “who she really is.”

    Yes, not who she really IS, but still an essential part of what she will become when the culmination of the eppiphany-wall-betabux lands her next to you.

    “…they want to play this out in the context of serial monogamy, so they can feel loved while also claiming their promiscuity is moral.”

    Serial being the key. [def: a part of a series; repeatedly committing, predictable pattern; regular installments of a story]

    It is her story. You may play a part, at some point or the other, but you are not the story.

    Her morality (even though she will do all she can to circumvent any such “judgement” on your part) is intact according to this story; her journey, in which these versions of her (sexual encounters) are not Her but merely episodes of her story – a filmstrip of all of those individual frames in which the plausible deniability was satisfied and rationalization completed.

    Since the men came (heh) and departed one-at-a-time* she awards herself the moral position of being monogamous aka “not a slut”, while desiring to imbue in you some comfort that those who came before you were (retroactively) confined within some comparable context of a relationship or performance parameters she desires to construct around you.

    This should be enough, right? Don’t worry about the fact that many of these relationships lasted two “dates” involving booze and the backseat of a car. Or immediate sex with some distant hope that it would be a relationship gateway even though it had yet proven to work as such.

    Because she still *believes* in one man one woman. Its just the velocity that changes. Luckily velocity can be dealt with. You just have to bend time a bit to fit the story you want to tell.

    *Time of course is an aspect that must be dealt with as it relates to Serial. So she embraces Time Dilation. A kind of creative license meets quantum theory that allows her to remove the nuisance of time as constant, as a meaningful, measurable component of her sexual decisions and replace it with a theoretical notion that affords her both the linear benefit of distance through time, i.e. “that was a long time ago” so it matters so little, so little that as the distant observer it basically didn’t happen, but also a kind of inverse benefit of dilation which means with two bodies in motion, time actually slows down, so it can hold great meaning/affect if it needs to in order to support the greater story.

    Elastic time is critical within the field of Serial Monogamy. “One at a time boys. I may be a prostitute, but I’m still a lady.”

  14. Rollo, I’ve been practicing both Game and BDSM for a long time now and I think BDSM is a bit more complex a phenomenon than you’re giving it credit for, here. I’d caution against conflating ‘dominant’ in a BDSM sense with ‘Alpha’ in a game sense or ‘submissive’ with ‘Beta.’ And I don’t think you need to be too skeptical when ‘goth girl’ says she asked to be dominated and got her wish when BDSM is so focused on consent – I could tell you about what happens to guys who enter the scene with the idea that ‘real doms don’t need to ask for consent’ (and their partners) but believe me, it’s nothing good. When you’re playing close to the edge you need to make everything that’s going on very explicit – unlike your typical pickup or first date scenario where so much is covert and implied, and tipping your hand too much is often a huge mistake.

    I find it generally fits better with the ‘Alpha’ frame to have a woman ask (or beg) you to dominate her and take more control instead of pressing the issue yourself, too. I’m sure several of my exes would say that they had to do a lot of asking before I ratcheted up the dominance enough for their comfort, but that’s how it has to work. The other scenario is erring on the side of being too extreme for them, too controlling or too brutal, and that tends to just end the relationship with bad feelings all around. I think ‘Just Getting It’ is about passing shit tests where asking overtly about her desires means you’ve failed the test but that’s not what negotiating a BDSM relationship is about. Overt communication about your desires is mandatory.

    I’ve actually used both the rollercoaster and skydiving metaphors myself a great deal, and if you think there’s something wrong or hypocritical about the desire to get the exciting emotional experience of danger without actually being in danger I think you should think about it some more. So much entertainment centers around that premise – Game itself, even. I’m guessing Dalrock is approaching it from the Christian perspective of headship requiring unconditional submission where husbands do in fact have the right (nay, the duty) to violate their wives’ consent from time to time and thus he implies there’s something wrong with avoiding that ‘danger’ but I’d disagree.

  15. @Rollo
    I’m interested to see if your predictions for this weekend/next week are true. It’s rare that we get to see something so significantly polarizing show up with an announcement beforehand and have the opportunity to make predictions about the outcome. I won’t be surprised if you’re correct but I also won’t be surprised if this movie actually falls a little flat. I live in Los Angeles and most of my “plates” are self-identified feminists. They’ve brought up not seeing the movie out of some form of protest for the message it’s sending (despite obviously being interested in seeing it). I think I saw some kind of initiative to donate a the price of a ticket to some kind of anti-violence against women cause instead of seeing the flick. Plus, it’s a movie and not a book so the nuances of the book will be, more or less, overlooked. At any rate, I’m looking forward to seeing how the movie is received and whether there’s some kind of backlash from feminist circles in the aftermath.

    On a separate note:
    I just wanted to say I enjoyed the part of this post where you discussed how women see themselves in a sexual “role” vs seeing men as being themselves during sex. It’s something I’ve noticed (I have a “plate” who does some fetish modeling and likes to talk about herself in the “dungeon” – I thought it was an appropriate metaphor – vs on the street) but hadn’t connected the dots. There really is a feeling that women and men are allowed to be different entities at different times. In my mind, I simply think of it as “compartmentalization” and men are considered better, by current psychological theory, at it. Yet women are given carte blanche to do and say whatever they want in regards to sex and not have it reflect on the rest of their lives the same way men do.
    I’ve heard Dr. Drew Pinsky talk about this dichotomy as well. However, he suggests that, for women, there really is a mechanism that allows them to separate their personality into distinct “sexual” vs “non-sexual” personalities. We all have different personalities we exhibit at different times (Work, School, Family, Friends, Romance, etc.) but – at this point I’m just curious about your opinion – do you believe there’s a fundamental difference between men and women in regards to sexual life compartmentalization? Do you think “sexual personality” is indicative of personal identity outside the bedroom?

    Thanks,
    -Yhufir

  16. As I was saying, if you look at that Inside Out trailer and replace the Dad’s mental resolution with a hot swimsuit model he banged (in contrast to the wife’s Brazilian Alpha widower) the entire narrative shifts.

    That’s because men’s sexual personalities are ALWAYS cast as disgusting perversions when their point of origin is from the man himself. Women’s sexual personalities are embraced and sympathetic to the condition of women.

    Woman masturbates = sexy and hot. Man masturbates = disgusting perversion.

  17. @kinky

    Overt communication about your desires is mandatory.

    Danger without the actual danger, exactly as Dalrock put it. Except women want it to happen without the overt communication. I know I’m not part of the BDSM community, but the only women who’ve wanted me to be overt about things have been pretty openly fucked in the head. Enough so that I didn’t want to fuck them. Don’t our your dick in crazy is a safe rule.

    The ones that aren’t fucked in the head want it to all be covert. Maybe there’s exceptions to the rule, but they’re not so common that I’ve met them. Maybe communicating it covertly is an unreasonable expectation on their part as well, but hey they’ve got a lot of those already that we discuss on here. What’s one more?

  18. Just a quick observation.

    Some of the most depraved women I have slept with have trumpeted, “I be the world’s biggest feminist.” They wanted to be abused, beaten, suffocated, etc. Total dominance. Extreme. I’m sure most of you lads know what I mean. …
    But, as soon as the sexual act was consumed ( and, yes, it was something resembling a porno on steroids with and infusion of barbaric madness), they would resume the
    bossy, “masculine” persona within seconds.
    Almost like flipping a switch.

    “I want to be your depraved hoe !!”
    “Hurt me! Beat me! Punish me! Harder! Hit me!!”
    A few minutes after the act,
    “What? What did you say? What? Fuck you! I’m not your bitch! Get your own food. Fuck you asshole!!”
    And, that was my invitation for the quick exit.
    “Gota go, my dog is lonesome, and my flowers need their evening story.” Oy vey….

  19. Dal. “These women don’t just want to build a better beta, they want to tame the alpha. In fact, I think the former is just another way they are trying to approach the latter. They want to take an inherently unsafe activity and make it safe. They want to submit to a man without having to submit; they want a man who can tame their feral self. They want him to trip their danger signals.”
    Wise the Xtian is. Foolish the women.
    I am a simple man. I have two mental boxes. Friend, or foe.
    Two women have seriously shit-tested me to be a bit over the edge, tie me up and do things daddy, smacked me, pulled chibs and other dumb shit. Fuck that, out the door. See ya, wouldn’t wanna be ya. Freak.
    Obviously I’m insufficiently alpha.
    On the other hand, they don’t know that not stopping till you see bone splinters and red foamy stuff is the absolute reverse of sexeh, as are wheelchairs.
    Seemingly they can’t tell the difference. I blame the parents.

    You can have one, or the other. My friend?.
    There are no halfway fights. And no referees.

    It takes an absurd amount of prodding to make me even grumble, slap me around the room, I’ll giggle like a gurl. I don’t care enough (and it doesn’t hurt). The very fact they’re even trying indicates suicidal insanity, even in guys. Why not have a gin instead, pal, here you go. What rational person wants to take on the Honey Monster? He’d rather have friends.

    Yes, I am probably a barbarian. So my cultured English friends tell me.
    Maybe I should tote round a half-yard of plastic water pipe, like The Farmer up the track does when dealing with his cattle. Instead of a straight razor. When it comes to the dance in the Wallace’s ring, men and women get the equal treatment they’ve always dreamt of, round here.

    “What do women want? Glamorous adventures, without risk.” Margarethe von Trotta, feminist film-maker.

  20. I’m sure we’ll hear (or read) very little push back from the release of 50 Shades…after this weekend. Remember, it’s all about the new consumers (women) for the large corporations (including Hollywood). It’s the reason why many of these movies are made and are appealing to women…to get women to spend their money (who cares about men).

    The message out in society will be one of “it’s about time women got theirs” and they’ll see nothing wrong with it. It will be more about rationalizing why it’s ok (and why they are role playing) – we call those people hypocrites in my neighborhood. But, all will be good in the media….money will be made on a large scale.

    Even if there is a little drama behind it, large corporations will benefit again by the news stories covering the nonsense. I don’t watch the news any longer because it’s entertainment (not news).

  21. @Sun Wukong

    I’ve had a very different experience. If anything, being unable to communicate overtly about your sexuality is a maturity thing rather than a sanity thing. Male communication tends to be overt and female communication tends to be covert, and women without a lot of experience with men have trouble being clear and direct about their desires and limits when they really ought to be. It’s easy to write off behavior you don’t understand as ‘crazy,’ but I think that often obscures more than it illuminates.

    Sure, a girl like Rollo’s BPD ex for example is probably always very overt about sex (I still get occasional extremely dirty texts from the one BPD girl I dated years ago, myself), but there are lots of shy girls who turn red and clam up at the mention of sex who are ticking time bombs of neuroses. And there are plenty of relatively reasonable women who think ‘of course I can talk about sex with my partner’ and others who are more reserved and find communicating openly about sex too crude or embarrassing, preferring innuendo.

  22. Fantastic post! Of course the analogy that males being CEOs during the week, who later want to be dominated in bed and today’s women who need to be dominant (and in their ‘masculine’) when working in the office; like to be submissive in bed is top notch!

    Of course, average family will go with their kid for the Sponge Bob movie, and husband will politely nod with his wife complaining about that ‘bad sexual revolution’ and ‘scandalous death of morals in our times’.. He husband will be thinking her wife finally appreciated his life-long dedication yet ignoring her yearning to ticket seller who tuns out to be more alpha than him.. eh crazy world 😉

  23. If anything, being unable to communicate overtly about your sexuality is a maturity thing rather than a sanity thing.

    Careful when saying this, the number of people with undiagnosed mental illness of some kind in the developed world is sometimes referred to as an epidemic, if not a growing pandemic. You might be demonstrating the thing you’re trying to disprove…

    …but there are lots of shy girls who turn red and clam up at the mention of sex who are ticking time bombs of neuroses.

    Oh, wait, I guess I should have just waited for you to undermine your own point. Nice.

  24. I predict that Jian Ghomeshi will convert to Islam in prison to immunize himself against rape accusations. He will be acquitted, hired by US MSM to write a BDSM television series (location in a penthouse on the new World Trade Center), and end up swimming in money and pussy. Being dark and foreign will add to his cachet.

    Hugo Schwyzer will try to get on the bandwagon and end up going down in flames after confessing to being more vanilla than Grandma after drinking a quart of extract.

    The feminists will grow their hamsters to the proportions of capybara http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capybara
    as well as blaming the patriarchy, and will have to further spin like a turbine in a nuclear power plant to resolve the contradiction. The ‘sphere will call this meta-hamstering ’50SOGism’, not to be confused with 50ORGasms.

    New social conventions will be created to cover up the fallout. I’ll call it the Chernobyl Effect.

  25. Re: Roles

    Do we assume every aspect of woman’s behavior is an act, or role being played? Are the tears, histrionic monologues, over wrought euphoria about things that are “cute” just part of the internal stage directing and scripting? Is this why they hate on the “nice guys”, because the nice guys are better actors encroaching on their turf? Who are they trying to convince; us or themselves? Is the end result of solipsism doubting one’s own existance?

    I thought that was just my mother.

    Apparently women have no actual intrinsic identity, and only exist such that they are defined entirely by the other peope in their lives. Is that a responsibility of a man, to define and act as his woman’s source of identity? That would seem to explain the ridiculous obsession with status, and fashion.

  26. You just have to laugh at the absurdity. They just keep selling the fantasy that safe Sadist Billionaires, Prince Charming, and Sparkly Vampires are easily attainable for any average girl.

    Only in the ‘United States of the Feminine Imperative’ can a no-talent author like E.L. James plagiarize Twilight and write fan-fiction which becomes the national voice of female sexuality.

    Disney at least puts some effort, talent, and money into their hypergamous writing; a level of artistry, this movie just embraces being a complete race to the bottom of the trash heap.

    I find it a revolting notion to actually pay to watch a terrible soft-core movie; but it is simply horrifying watching it in a theater filled with packs of cackling harpies; all gleefully stuffing their faces with popcorn, goobers, and gulping down 32oz Cokes.

    Who wants to push their way through a large crowd caused by the long line to the Women’s Bathroom or women rushing out of the theatre to have their post-movie cigarette?

    The worst will be during the movie, when the neck tattoo single mothers shush their small children to keep quiet, getting angry their small cries and tears are interrupting “Mommy’s Time”.

    No way in hell.

  27. Bad painter – Yes. Well said. That is the truth about women as I’ve experienced. However, man has no “responsibility” to “define” her idenity or acquiesce to anything about it. A mans performance should be for himself, not a burden labored to acquire her intimacy. If she climbs on board with you good, if not there are plenty of others who will. The point is no man has to be a victim of this.

  28. Jacklabare-

    ……I’ll call it the Chernobyl Effect.

    Thanks! I’m laughing my ass off and will be for at least a week. That was damn good.

  29. Round up all your obnoxious male friends. Especially the ones who’s GF’s are going to watch this POS. Head to your theater of choice for the 9pm showing. Get there early enough to all sit together at the top. Watch the real show (all the girls showing up) . When the garbage goes up onscreen, start booing every stupid scene and throwing popcorn. Get thrown out in a very loud and visual way. Head to prearranged slaughterhouse. Get suitably trashed. When all the ladies show up, you are already famous. Trash talk the movie as loudly as possible. Point out how real spankings are. The tingles will be physically audible. Mop up. Literally.

  30. That earlier Disney Clip for “Inside Out” really says it all. If you didn’t see it, scroll back up and watch–then read the subsequent comments.

    Rollo KILLED there with his hilarious suggestion for the addition to the father’s thoughts. I actually chuckled out loud imagining how that would play out in American cineplexes. But what can one expect from an industry that is rife with nerdy beta males (animation) and deals almost expressly with populist-friendly tropes? I know because I worked in the industry.

    A short while back, I took my 2 young sons to see the Lego movie and was entertained by the tension between the pollyanna, beta protagonist and the former alpha boyfriend (Batman) of the SIW® female love interest. The writers/producers couldn’t help but make the alpha look like a flawed, petty narcissist who was compensating because that’s what they’re all selling to the kids. Beta fantasy wish fulfillment? I’d say so.

  31. Get ready for what Hollywood does to alter the Christian Gray character to beta-ize him somewhere near the end of the film. It’s as predictable as the sunrise.

  32. I learned that 50 Shades was originally twilight (another abomination I’ll never watch) fan-fiction today. The irony is nearly stupefying. Me thinks this is a near seminal-moment for this society. This is my first red pill vagintines day. Thanks for the advice Rollo for single men-get out and sarge!

  33. @Rollo

    Talk about jungle fever. Well, dangerous billionaire playboy and all that. What if he’s secretly Christian Grey as well? 50 Shades of Batman.

    @therhoubbhe

    all gleefully stuffing their faces with popcorn, goobers, and gulping down 32oz Cokes.

    Hey, hey, HEY… that’s a Diet Coke. Means the other calories don’t count.

  34. The Dark Knight is the White Knight in the Nolan movies. Watch him qualify himself to the girl. I would have smirked and answered “You have a booger hanging out of your nose,” then jumped.

  35. “The Feminine Imperative defines for men that his ridiculous sexual identity is who he really is, but for women her sexual identity is a role she plays that insulates her from her real ‘empowered’ identity. Through this roleplaying, women can reconcile and satisfy their real need of masculine dominance while maintaining the strong independent woman® identity that feminine-primary society expects of them.”

    That’s some razor sharp analysis of the fem psyche here, pure gold!

  36. It’s been ten years since I had the experiences related above, to the point that I’m not sure anymore what that even means. I express a desire to a female, and she conforms, readily. I have found that being totally honest in my desires results in a nice male/female dance. I have equally found that second guessing myself or resorting to anything that is less than 100% truth, results in mal behavior, all around, not just hers, but also my own. I understand why so many guys are getting pushback. I’ve gotten it in my past. I understand what’s going on. It’s because you’re not being honest. Look, if your idea of bedroom behavior is that of the porn gutter filth that you have been raised on, then, yes, expect a lot of no, most of the girls you’re with, will balk at that. Porn is not reality: it is social engineering (meth & Viagra), distributed by creatures who really hate your fucking guts.

    [Sidenote on porn: roleplay is totally cool, and you shouldn’t get any pushback on it. Why? Because it is about you giving your undivided attention to her… EVERY female lives to be the undivided center of attention. Pretty basic math. On YOUR terms, there is nothing wrong with that… it is quite healthy.]

    Generally speaking though, once your girl trusts you, she trusts you, and that’s really the end of that. But that’s a pretty big responsibility. You can’t reasonably expect for a girl to GIVE herself to you, and then you can do whatever the fuck you want with that trust. No man in any kind of business relationship with you would ever agree to interact with you in that way. What planet is that from? Trust is a contract. Biology applies, both ways, always, no getting around it.

    Generally, however, once you have legitimately earned a girl’s trust, she is yours, and will follow you to the ends of the earth… that is how sacred are the bonds between human males and females. “Trust” is the key word here. That is no trivial thing. You can’t just earn someone’s trust, and then shit all over it, and expect to not suffer the consequences, which can be quite dire, in extreme cases.

    You’re responsible when you operate a motor vehicle, right? Well, you have to be that way when you drive a woman also, or a horse. Same shit, different milieu.

    Females are not things to be toyed with and discarded. They are biological organisms (that bear children), with all of the complexity that that entails. Treat them well (from a manosphere standpoint), and they will treat you well. Very well. Females are, and are intended to be, relaxing oases from your daily grind and competition. Why, in a million years, would you knowingly shit on that? Who else is offering that to you? Your buddies with whom with you drink beer and watch the NFL on Sundays? Come on. We know you don’t swing that way. So what is it then?

    Why are you even here if all you want to do is to get a relationship up and running and then to shit on it? That is completely irrational. Look, the manosphere doesn’t say this enough (if ever), but it should say it much more often: FEMALES ARE FUCKING AWESOME. Yes, they are flawed (especially so at the hands of the social engineers… really flawed, like, fucked up, even), there is no doubt about that (as amply pointed out by the manosphere). But so are you. You think that you haven’t been tainted by this diabolical system? Think again.

    Look, you WILL get hurt. But so what? You get hurt in every other aspect of your life. That’s a fact, and you know it. So who fucking cares if you get hurt in order to lay between some soft, smooth, sweet feminine legs? That is a human need that you were built with. There is no getting around it.

    You must allow love back into your heart for any of this shit to work in your own life. This time, do it with some manosphere-learned protection in place. But allow it in. No matter how hurt you are, no matter how much pain you are experiencing, you cannot experience love with a female if you don’t let it in.

    And, after all, that’s why you’re really here.

  37. @ Badpainter:

    “Apparently women have no actual intrinsic identity, and only exist such that they are defined entirely by the other peope in their lives. Is that a responsibility of a man, to define and act as his woman’s source of identity? That would seem to explain the ridiculous obsession with status, and fashion.”

    Guess it was Rollo who said it that women are empty vessels and need to fill the void. That’s your job. But what do they offer in exchange to your sacrifices? Modern women usually nothing except pussy, which is way overrated due to constant sexualisation in the MSM.
    So that’s what I’m still chewing on. Trying to find the real value of women.

    And you Stevie are just trying to lure men into commitment. Do you really think that the unconditional romantic love that beta men had for women solves that problem. The way I see it, men are simply reacting to a system that fucked up women.

  38. Stevie – “Why are you even here if all you want to do is to get a relationship up and running and then to shit on it?”

    You shoud ask the ladies that one.

    And why would I want a relationship? I certainly don’t need one. My experience suggests your so called oasis is more mirage than reality.

  39. I am beyond tainted. The words can not even explain. As most men here, I have seen so much darkness. Yet, as all of them, WE can still love. Yes we can. As Rollo mentioned, MEN are the true Romantics. I am so scarred by this polluted existence…I still smile, dream, hope. I left the anger. I left the hate. I love women. But, I love them for WHAT they ARE. Not for how I would like them to be.

    Do I feel like weeping for the conditions of the
    immoral Western World? Yes I do.
    I have been thrown into this existence. I have excepted the “red pill” truths only as a means for my survival. Because, my dear friends, women can and will kill. It does not matter if it is conscious or subconscious. The path of destruction I see everywhere is grandiose. Men left penciled. Suicides. Depression. Madness. Hatred. Lives destroyed.
    Why? Why?
    I do not want to combat a system which I can not defeat. The “truth” is not pretty. Actually, it is hideous sometimes. I still smile, laugh, and feel the morning joy.
    I’m jaded. I am. But, I posses understanding. And, my friends, that makes me accept. I have seen the visions of the future. I just smile and enjoy my simple life. As a MAN. That is my identity.
    Godspeed gentleman!

  40. Typing on a phone. Please forgive my grammatical errors. *Penciled* meant penniless…. Spell check.
    Thank you Rollo for another great post. Seminal writing and subject work. Nowhere in Academia will one be exposed to such concise, poignant arguments. I’m reffering all of my male acquaintances to your blog and works. Too bad most of them could care less…It is fine. I just read them their “last rites” and say a silent prayer.

  41. Last thing.
    For all the men and women reading the comments. Please read ” The short happy life of Francis Macomber” by one insignificant writer named Ernest Hemingway. It would put a lot of Rollo’s writing in perspective. It might also put some hairs on your chest. Remember gents, the only thing you have to fear is FEAR itself. Live for YOURSELVES.. We come from generations of MEN. People that tamed the world, build civilizations, and had “BALLS.”. Feel between your legs. They are there. Don’t be afraid. Embrace the force. USE them.
    May you all have a pleasant day.

  42. @ Rollo

    What is “lonely hearts club” game?

    @ Yhufir

    The “compartmentalization” (or by more psychological terms “dissocation”) you were talking about is essential and constitutive for a woman’s psyche. It’s the same compartmentalization between the sexual behaviour and the “real self” that allows a woman to go out on “girls night”, fetch a few alpha genes on the restroom of a stripper’s club, and return home to “daddy” as if nothing had happened. From an evolutionary viewpoint this dissociation is absoluetly necessary for women to live on their lives, not realizing the antsocial component and disguising the destructive effects of their dual sexual strategies. Herein lie the roots of female hypoagency.

  43. “Get ready for what Hollywood does to alter the Christian Gray character to beta-ize him somewhere near the end of the film. It’s as predictable as the sunrise.”

    Hollywood doesn’t need to change this, it was already in the books, predictably.

    btw in the books’ backstory he was a submissive from 15-21.

  44. I’m going to be at my father’s funeral on February 14th in Toledo, Ohio.
    My wife works a couple day’s a week as an R.N. for a campus-style independent living apartment homes for rich folks.

    My wife volunteered weeks ago to work that day because she knew it wasn’t a special day and the other females were going to salivate over their $186 from their mates. Or go to the movies.

    So my wife talks to her boss yesterday and the she, the boss, offered to send flowers with no offer to have my wife not work that day.

    Nice respect for the Patriarchy, girls.

  45. @Stevie

    “Females are not things to be toyed with and discarded. They are biological organisms (that bear children), with all of the complexity that that entails. Treat them well (from a manosphere standpoint), and they will treat you well. Very well. Females are, and are intended to be, relaxing oases from your daily grind and competition. Why, in a million years, would you knowingly shit on that? Who else is offering that to you? Your buddies with whom with you drink beer and watch the NFL on Sundays? Come on. We know you don’t swing that way. So what is it then?”

    You have to be a woman. My daily grind and competition was my oasis.

  46. Rollo,

    Thanks for the term and the tip.

    I appreciate your efforts in alerting us to the need to avoid purplism, Kill The Beta, and finding A New Hope. I believe I’m getting close. I’m learning to catch and check the anxiety I sometimes feel after being an asshole. Noticing that not only the sky doesn’t fall, but the women’s interest in me and the men’s respect for me seems to increase reinforces the process.

    To function optimally and act in alignment with my evolved mating instincts, I need to carefully examine myself to root out the influence of FI indoctrination while spotting the baby (actual instincts) in the bathwater so to speak.

    My current opinion is that my propensity for limbic activation, pussy (almost) fetish and oneitis are evolved firmware, installed by sexual selection since they serve the FI.
    The only one I consider detrimental at this time is oneitis. While it is said to be Man’s nature to see his woman as ‘the One’, I agree that oneitis is functionally equivalent to a mental illness for me.
    Does anyone have suggestions for treating oneitis besides spinning plates? Perhaps desensitization? There is a guy who talks about training yourself to “click your amygdala forward” to reduce negative emotions. IOW, the cerebral cortex can modify the functioning of the limbic brain. Probably properly internalizing TRP tends to have that effect.

  47. Jesus, Stevie’s post reads like blue-pill brain vomit. She’s trying to convince people they should let women be their “Oases”. She’s trying to convince men that women are “not to be discarded” even though society clearly teaches everyone that men are disposable. She’s trying to convince men not to start relationships only to know you’ll abandon them later. She’s trying to convince you of the awesomeness of the vagina. She’s trying to get you to “man up” and accept pain that women give out.

    That comment is like seeing a billboard for bourbon on the door of a rehab clinic.

  48. That comment is like seeing a billboard for bourbon on the door of a rehab clinic.

    I ain’t an alcoholic I’m a drunk. Alcoholics go to rehab. Rehab is for quitters, and I ain’t no quitter.

  49. I see where Stevie is coming from. But its in an already chosen LTR or marriage that is good and the male doesn’t want to screw it up. And the Woman is a good woman. I’m there and it’s where I want to be. It happens. I never wanted to be in the middle of two standard deviations of the mean. I always wanted to be outside two standard deviations of the mean.

    “Look, the manosphere doesn’t say this enough (if ever), but it should say it much more often: FEMALES ARE FUCKING AWESOME. Yes, they are flawed (especially so at the hands of the social engineers… really flawed, like, fucked up, even), there is no doubt about that (as amply pointed out by the manosphere). But so are you. You think that you haven’t been tainted by this diabolical system? Think again.”

    You got a few words moved around, though:

    FEMALES ARE AWESOME FUCKING!

  50. “That comment is like seeing a billboard for bourbon on the door of a rehab clinic.”

    I had to do ‘treatment’ as part of a diversion program. The old derelict doing ‘alchohol education’ would pull out all kinds of empty alcohol containers while talking about it. It was made worse by his alcoholic appearance. The first thing I would do after class is run down to the corner store and buy a tall can of malt liquor.

    Thanks for the heads up Jeremy.

  51. @Stevie

    FEMALES ARE FUCKING AWESOME

    You spend your entire post rambling on and on about how they’re “only human” then you bust this out? To paraphrase George Carlin, women are just like any other group of humans on the planet: a few winners, a whole lotta losers. A whole lot. Especially in modern society where they’re all fat on feminist horse shit and their own over-inflated sense of self-importance.

    They’re not “fucking awesome”. In the first world they’re just a bunch of humans reacting to an environment where they’ve been overvalued for a while now. The natural human reaction to such overvaluing is to act piss poor, and that’s pretty much what most of us men are dealing with them doing.

  52. @ zip

    Re: compartmentalization

    Interesting observation.

    Women compartmentalize post-facto as a rationalization for how destructive acts benefit others: “I had to fuck the hawt guy because he was lonely.”

    Men compartmentalize pre-facto to rationalize the delayed gratification resulting from current personal sacrifices: building/saving for the future to benefit themselves.

  53. “In the case I illustrated with the CEO relegating himself to his mistress as a slave, so too will women’s sexual selves be a role they’ll play, and that role will be normalized for women through a feminine-primary social order. While men can be comfortably ridiculed for their desire to be dominated, women are sold the idea that their sexual selves are not their real selves, thus the need to be submissive can be forgiven of the strong independent woman® because her sexual self is not “who she really is.”

    The Feminine Imperative defines for men that his ridiculous sexual identity is who he really is, but for women her sexual identity is a role she plays that insulates her from her real ‘empowered’ identity. Through this roleplaying, women can reconcile and satisfy their real need of masculine dominance while maintaining the strong independent woman® identity that feminine-primary society expects of them.”

    if this is true…and i believe your analysis is accurate…the next (small) step is for girls to rationalize (and for feminine primary society to approve) that bc of her open hypergamy now on display (in serial form), she should be able to have sex with alphas (masculine dominance) regardless of her actual relationship status. and since it’s ‘roleplaying,’ she can do that and still be ‘faithful’ to her beta provider, who gets the ‘real’ her…

    this is just open hypergamy in concurrent form (open ‘cheating’)…as opposed to serial form (serial monogamy)…

  54. @having a bad day,

    The goal of feminism is to remove all constraints on female sexuality while maximally restricting male sexuality – Heartiste

    and,…

    The Cardinal Rule of sexual strategies:
    For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed the other gender must compromise or abandon their own

  55. @Rollo

    yep…and i just wonder how long society can actually continue to function under all that weight…based on history, the collapse should be in process…

  56. @Rollo Tomassi

    “February 10th, 2015 at 12:18 pm
    Men prepare for life to be difficult and are grateful when it’s easy.
    Women prepare for life to be easy and complain when it’s difficult.”

    ……and they complain when things are easy, just for attention and to shit test.

  57. @having a bad day

    …and i just wonder how long society can actually continue to function under all that weight…based on history, the collapse should be in process…

    What happens to you is not up to society. It is up to you. What happens to me is up,to me. The only way “society” will change is for each man to realize the truth (thanks to Rollo and others many are lead to these realizations). But nothing changes without action.

  58. “Badpainter

    February 10th, 2015 at 12:12 pm

    @ zip

    Re: compartmentalization

    Men compartmentalize pre-facto to rationalize the delayed gratification resulting from current personal sacrifices: building/saving for the future to benefit themselves.”

    I don’t need to rationalize to do things to benefit myself.

    I only need to compartmentalize and rationalize to do things that benefit women.

  59. “Water Cannon Boy

    February 10th, 2015 at 11:55 am

    It worked”

    Awesome.
    .
    You got one of her camel toe?

  60. @Rollo

    Christian Culture carpetbaggers…that’s the truth.

    For every “moral” broker scam artist, there are millions of “followers”.

  61. Ed Young from that fifty shades of they, There’s something not quite right about the way he looks. His smile somehow reeks of an effeminate bent. I can’t quite put my finger on it.

  62. @ Badpainter

    True.

    However there are differences in the motives and groundings of male vs. female compartmentizations.

    Men do so based on experiences and assumptions that usually work for the good of the majority of his fellowmen and for the benefit of his tribe: the idea is the one of reciprocity aka Tit-for-tat-principle. This works with his fellow hunters as well as in the field of division of work: I am honest with you, so I can expect that you are honest with me. I do not abandon you (e.g. in case of insury) so I can expect that you do not let me down as well. I don’t withhold information to you so I can expect that you deliver proper information. It’s a classical Win-Win.

    But men are hoplessly lost if they apply this principle to their female “partners”. It simply does not work with them.

    Women’s post-actu rationalisations (or compartmentization) are opposed to this applied to prevent serious detriment as effect of a demeanor that could wreck social harmony and cooperation of the whole tribe. Their alpha gene shopping is likely to cause serious unrest and fights within the group of men and nuke vital ressources of the whole tribe. If unfolded it is that destructive that it has to be hidden by all means – it even has to be concealed from their own minds and awareness.

  63. Jacklabear – “I don’t need to rationalize to do things to benefit myself.”

    Sooo….you were never blue pill? Congradulations!

    I once skipped a Van Halen concert in favor of a midterm. Retrospectively it might have been the wrong choice. That’s the common sort thing I meant.

  64. This isn’t mine, but every man needs a good laugh:

    “I’ve been a bad girl,” she whispered. “Punish me in the way only a real man can.” “Alright,” he said, and left his wet towels on the bathroom floor.

  65. @Not Born This Morning

    “What happens to you is not up to society. It is up to you. What happens to me is up,to me. The only way “society” will change is for each man to realize the truth (thanks to Rollo and others many are lead to these realizations). But nothing changes without action.”

    i understand your point…and agree with it (that’s why i keep working my shit…lol…and helping men to see the red pill reality as much as i can)…

    but your (and my) actions take place within a framework that is external to ourselves (society…which is currently trapped in the clutches of the feminine imperative…) and only slightly influenced by our efforts (so far…). the fact remains that if you are caught in an avalanche/tsunami/earthquake/societal upheaval/etc. your actions might have no effect on your ultimate result…regardless of our efforts to change that framework…

  66. @Jeremy

    Dude just has a very disingenuous smile. Reminds me of a lot of religious types I’ve met. When they find out you don’t practice their religion, their “smile” looks a lot more like they’re gritting their teeth and tolerating your presence.

  67. @bad day

    the fact remains that if you are caught in an avalanche/tsunami/earthquake/societal upheaval/etc. your actions might have no effect on your ultimate result

    While this is true, not being able to change those big things means your only concern is how you can either work around them or escape them. It’s certainly not worth concerning yourself with them outside of that. (Hence the reason I keep saying to folks to not look at hypergamy as a solvable problem; it’s beyond your control) Especially if you don’t have any reasonable way to know when they’ll happen or when they’ll get worse/better. Make your plans and execute them, improvise if the situation changes before you’ve completed them. If things work out for shit due to those larger forces, don’t beat yourself up about it; you couldn’t have known all the specifics that would occur as a single mortal human.

    Mitigate the big forces where you can, and don’t hold yourself accountable when you did all you could and things still go to shit.

  68. @ Zip re: “The “compartmentalization” (or by more psychological terms “dissocation”)”

    This is inaccurate. Dissociation is simply extreme compartmentalization. And it’s not just necessary for a woman’s psyche, we all need it at some level (see below). I’m not sure what “ant[i]social component” you’re talking about but I think we can all agree that compartmentalization is indeed at the root of female hypoagency. Dissociation MIGHT be usable here because, when we talk about dissociation we usually use it to distinguish between everyday compartmentalization and the extreme cases where a person uses compartmentalization as a mental defense against traumatic events. It may be that women are so ego-invested in themselves as a “good girl” that it’s unthinkable they could act like “all the other sluts” so they create this mental divide. But I think that’s a bit of a reach. Who knows?

    @jacklabear re: “I don’t need to rationalize to do things to benefit myself. I only need to compartmentalize and rationalize to do things that benefit women.”
    This is a rationalization. You need to compartmentalize every day between each person you interact with. I’m not trying to be argumentative here. I don’t think we’re all on the same page about this concept. If you didn’t compartmentalize, you might act inappropriately in a normal situation. Example: If you don’t know how to compartmentalize work and personal life, you might talk to your boss without respect and get fired.

    @zip re: “However there are differences in the motives and groundings of male vs. female compartmentizations”

    While I like your point, the truth is that compartmentalization is rarely, if ever, a conscious decision. Simply put, there’s no motive only “grounding,” as you put it. But I think it’s important to reaffirm that this is all amoral. There’s nothing sinister going on here. Just like your opponent in a chess match isn’t necessarily your enemy, women aren’t necessarily your enemy as much as they are your antithesis. You can play a 2 player game against your best friend and still be friends if one loses and one wins (no matter who). The stakes are on the genetic scale, admittedly. But the bottom line isn’t that you need to despise your opponent; you only need to best them. The classic rule of thumb in any competitive game seems appropriate here: Think ahead of your opponent. Anticipate their next few moves and assert control of their strategy in any way you can. If you’re not dictating the course of the game, then your opponent is.

  69. Men must figure it out for themselves because if the woman asks to be dominated, the dominance is unlikely to be real. A beta could respond to the request and temporarily become more dominant, but this will not satisfy the woman’s instinct. Once the man starts acting more dominant the woman’s instinct will be to test the dominance. Since the beta aims to please once the real tests start coming the dominance will disappear. He was dominant because she asked for it and now that she is acting is way that appears negative to the man, she must not want it anymore. He follows his beta imperative and follows her lead, all the while trying to give her what she wants. Hence the classic beta cliche’: “Just tell me what you want!”

  70. Jeremy-

    Ed Young…effeminate smile…

    I live in Houston Texas and have seen that “smile” many times…briefly….before immediately changing the channel. I know why you relate it to the effeminate. Like “Lying Eyes” by The Eagles says….”and your smile is just a thin disguise….”, If you’ve ever watched any amount of Joel Ostien you will witness a similar feigned facial contortion……a devious compulsively maintained smirk. They are selling snake oil to worms. Abbra-ka-dabbra …..

  71. @Yhufir

    Referring to your point about the compartmentization-dissociation-distinction I agree completetly. Very well explained. English is not my mother tongue so I might not get all the atticisms of the terms in use.

    Concerning the “morals”. I do not insinuate consciousness involved in the formation and application of sexual or behavioral strategies. From an evolutionary standpoint the formation of behaviour and basical assumptions underlying this behaviour often follows not more than sheer necessity, a process that gains momentum from action-reaction-counterreaction-dynamics. But I wanted to draw attention to a point that so many men miss: that their morals and ethics are completely different from the moral of women – for good evolutionary reasons.

  72. One of the best songs about hypergamy ever written..

    City girls just seem to find out early
    How to open doors with just a smile
    A rich old man
    And she won’t have to worry
    She’ll dress up all in lace and go in style

    Late at night a big old house gets lonely
    I guess every form of refuge has its price
    And it breaks her heart to think her love is
    Only given to a man with hands as cold as ice

    So she tells him she must go out for the evening
    To comfort an old friend who’s feelin’ down
    But he knows where she’s goin’ as she’s leavin’
    She is headed for the cheatin’ side of town

    You can’t hide your lyin’ eyes
    And your smile is a thin disguise
    I thought by now you’d realize
    There ain’t no way to hide your lyin eyes

    On the other side of town a boy is waiting
    with fiery eyes and dreams no one could steal
    She drives on through the night anticipating
    ‘Cause he makes her feel the way she used to feel

    She rushes to his arms,
    They fall together
    She whispers that it’s only for awhile
    She swears that soon she’ll be comin’ back forever
    She pulls away and leaves him with a smile

    You can’t hide your lyin’ eyes
    And your smile is a thin disguise
    I thought by now you’d realize
    There ain’t no way to hide you lyin’ eyes

    She gets up and pours herself a strong one
    And stares out at the stars up in the sky
    Another night, it’s gonna be a long one
    She draws the shade and hangs her head to cry

    She wonders how it ever got this crazy
    She thinks about a boy she knew in school
    Did she get tired or did she just get lazy?
    She’s so far gone she feels just like a fool

    My, oh my, you sure know how to arrange things
    You set it up so well, so carefully
    Ain’t it funny how your new life didn’t change things
    You’re still the same old girl you used to be

    You can’t hide your lyin eyes
    And your smile is a thin disguise
    I thought by now you’d realize
    There ain’t no way to hide your lyin’ eyes
    There ain’t no way to hide your lyin’ eyes
    Honey, you can’t hide your lyin’ eyes

    It is amazing how all the signs stared us in the face for years but we failed to see reality until we got fucked over in one way or another personally, BPD girl friends, feral wives, etc. I think it’s because we clung to the false promise of sexual rewards for white knightism. That was my story a long time ago. I hate what I see many men going through unnecessarily.

  73. @Yhufir. “There’s nothing sinister going on here. Just like your opponent in a chess match isn’t necessarily your enemy, women aren’t necessarily your enemy as much as they are your antithesis. You can play a 2 player game against your best friend and still be friends if one loses and one wins (no matter who). The stakes are on the genetic scale, admittedly. But the bottom line isn’t that you need to despise your opponent; you only need to best them.”

    The stakes are way higher than a chess match. You’re talking about losing half your shit, 40% of your future income (how long decided by a stranger in robes), at least half the time with your kids and if you have young kids, who knows how messed up they’ll be. I think the Feminine Imperative is sinister. And it’s all so women can rationalize (compartmentalize) whorish behavior that has never been tolerated in civilized society.

  74. Badpainter,

    I see your point. I seem to have more tolerance for cognitive dissonance than most. You could call that compartmentalization.

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