The Art of AMOG

If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles.

One of the more contentious aspects of intersexual competition the early PUAs hit upon was the phenomenon of the AMOG – Alpha Male Of Group – and how ‘that guy’s’ apparent social dominance focused all interaction within a peer group on himself. The AMOG was an easy parody of a guy to hate on for early Game practitioners because his archetype was so relatable for men looking to improve their chances with women they’d never been able to consider before they discovered Game. The nefarious AMOG was their worst cock-blocking villain.

For a recovering Beta experimenting with Game for the first time it was bad enough that the very real, in-his-face proposition of rejection by women was always to be considered, but to have to account for a guy that looked (in his mind) like the typical jock who regularly out-Alpha’d him back in high school seems like an unfair obstacle to need to overcome. I think that a lot of men’s competition anxiety focuses on a very overdramatized caricature of the Alpha ‘bullies’ they were familiar with when growing up.

This characterization is also the basis of the long-clichéd plot of every boy-meets-girl, boy-overcomes-shyness, boy-overcomes-bully-to-get-the-girl story ever told, and not just by Hollywood.

While female written romance stories revolve around multiple suitors for a woman protagonist to tame the most Alpha among them – usually ending with the one who’s a misunderstood asshole to everyone but her – male written romance generally centers on an underperforming Beta male (with a heart of gold) who, through extraordinary circumstance is placed in a position of  outperforming all of his previous rivals for his dream girl, or the girl he ‘should really be with’ instead of the shallow girl he thought would be so great. Instead of selfishly abusing his newfound Alpha powers by kicking sand in the faces of lesser Betas, he fashions himself as the hero exemplar of how Betas should act if they find themselves in a similar empowerment.

The stories of Spider Man, Captain America and even Back to the Future follow these male-romance scripts to the letter, but in every case the Beta-with-a-chance has to teach the bully a lesson before he can qualify for the girl’s attention, much less her intimacy. This clichéd story arch is a manifestation of men’s internalized understanding of their burden of performance. And while I can’t entirely assert this is an intrinsic part of men’s own mental firmware, I have to speculate that the fantasy of fulfilling it is part of men’s ubiquitous need to adequately perform for women’s intimate approval.

Regardless, the objective purpose is still to ‘get the girl’.

Examples of this Alpha bully archetype are part of most men’s formative learning. Not all men learn the lesson of the bully (some play the role with relish), but if we hold to the 80/20 rule of the manosphere we’re statistically looking at around 80% of (Beta) men who do. From grade school to high school to college, that guy, the douchebag, the guy who can’t help but actively or passively draw attention to himself, becomes the AMOG – and damned if he’s not the most contemptible bastard (or type of bastard) you know.

I’m highlighting that guy because more often than not he’s less a real person and more a manifestation of the anxiety that results from men’s insecurity about performing adequately for feminine approval. It’s easy to poke fun at the guys you see on hotchickswithdouchebags.com because they’re representations of the bully you hate. They’re the Jerks that every woman loves and every ‘normal’ guy vainly tries to make women rationally understand are the worst possible romantic option for them.

One very difficult hurdle men have in unplugging is getting past what they believe is the emulation of the Alpha Jerk who so regularly outperformed them, if not bullied them – yet, his asshole ways were still undeniably effective with the women he wanted to get with. Thus, for men who come to Red Pill awareness there’s a natural resistance to become that guy.

This AMOG archetype impression is tough to confront for men, but it’s important they do so.

This impression for men is an incredibly useful tool to effect women’s sexual strategy later in life when the woman (or type of woman) he’s held in such high regard and pined to be intimate with for so long finally “comes to her senses” around her Epiphany Phase and accepts him. For men with this AMOG mental impression, that woman’s acceptance comes with a certain degree of (sometimes smug) vindication. He waited her out and finally she’s “realized” what he’s been trying to make her see for so long – he’s actually the ‘perfect boyfriend’ for her.

He doesn’t realize he’s just playing the convenient ‘savior’-provider role women’s sexual strategy has conditioned and prepared him for, but believing his Beta Nice Guy life track has finally won out over the nefarious AMOG in his head is a strong reinforcer of a belief women need him to strongly believe when it’s time to cash in their Beta Bucks chips and her SMV starts its decline.

And therefore those skilled in war bring the enemy to the field of battle and are not brought there by him.

I’m going to flip your AMOG impression upside down now. That AMOG isn’t the one you should concern yourself with.

Most of the first PUAs always suggested a process of containment and isolating your target woman in order to ‘poach’ her from that guy. I understand the proposed isolation idea is to remove a girl you like from her social group, but the effect is really similar to Mate Guarding – isolate her awareness of all other sexual competitors and focus her on yourself. 

However, unless you’re making your approaches in clubs or loud bars it’s likely the context you’re working on a woman in isn’t one where an active, in-your-face AMOGing is happening. Isolation becomes a security measure to focus her on you being her best immediate prospect.

Roissy once stated that there are groupies for every male endeavor, I should also add that there are AMOGs in every male endeavor. Every group of nerdy programmers, geeks, chess club, your bowling team and even in your Bible study group, there’s an AMOG. Some are more significant than others, but rest assured, you know him, or you will.

Most men will compartmentalize themselves socially so as to best facilitate their chances of meeting, banging, marrying or otherwise interacting with women. This compartmentalization is really a form of Buffering against rejection, but it’s also a logical social positioning of a man putting himself into an environment where he can (hopefully) excel and be noticed for it.

All warfare is based on deception – Bear this in mind when you enter into a new social group dynamic or an unfamiliar social environment. You are an unknown commodity and therefore your strengths are novel to the group. Your weaknesses (your Beta-ness) will be more obvious than your strengths and thus more easily attached to you.

Playing to one’s strengths usually involves defining a man’s social environments. King Douchebag at a Vegas pool party is excelling in his environment, just as Bobby Fisher is at a chess tournament. One reason less ‘socially adept’ men enjoy more confidence at a ComicCon is because the environment buffers their social deficits, but emphasizes their particular talents. The first mistake most men make when considering an AMOG situation is underestimating the importance of that environment. In high school the environment was probably set for you, but as an adult you’ve got a greater degree of control over it.

Bear this in mind when you’re confronted with a guy “all the girls love”. There’s a tendency on the part of Beta leaning guys to think the AMOG is a ‘natural’ Alpha when in fact he’s really domain dependent on the social environment you share with him. Of course there will always be guys who excel in almost any environment because Hypergamy is universal to women and a ‘hawt guy’ is ‘hawt’ to all women, but remove him from his preferred domain to one you’re better adept in, or, outperform him in his domain with a particular strength or expertise you possess in such a way that he’s forced to acknowledge your skill.

To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.

The caricature of an in-your-face belligerent AMOG is really a social anomaly, and usually your experience of him is the product of an environment you’re not at home in. Far more common however is the AMOG who is unassuming, affable, and honestly a guy you probably can’t help but like. In fact this likability is his primary appeal. Obvious Alpha superiority combined with even a marginal humility makes for an irresistible AMOG to women.

One of my best friends to this day was a guy I despised when we were in high school. We ended up becoming lifelong friends, but initially I hated him for having such a natural Alpha affinity with the girls I wanted to get with. I actually attribute part of my early 20s sexual success (and if I’m honest some proto-Red Pill awareness) to many of the lessons women’s behavior around him taught me.

Both the nervous Beta and the PUA like to encourage the idea of an AMOG as being the drunk, loud-mouthed frat boy who pushes you aside to get to the girl at the bar you’re sarging (“Step aside McFly!”), but the Alpha Male of the Group to really consider is the guy women can’t stop talking about when he’s not even present. He’s the guy who leaves the room and girls giddily huddle together to agree about how ‘hawt’ he is. He doesn’t even have to be in the group to be the Alpha of it.

The best form of social proof is the unsolicited kind. The kind where women can’t help but talk about a guy, and ask his Beta-chump friends how they can get to know him better.

He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious.

In the immediate sense, unseating this AMOG would be a challenge only the most exceptional men could hope for. He’s established in his environment and his status and social proof is perpetuated for him within his social group. This situation may seem hopeless, and if your goal is to supplant him you’d have to really consider what the rewards would be in doing so, however there is much to learn from him within your shared environment.

Pose as a friend, act as a spy. Befriending the AMOG may be your best option as it opens you up to his social proof as a peer. You may not replace him in the short term, but if you’re spinning plates as you should, his confirmation of you as a peer will only benefit you. This confirmation will allow you an insight into the dynamics of that social environment. Your ultimate success doesn’t lie in destroying the AMOG, or becoming one yourself, but mastering a shared environment in which your strengths are best applied.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.

Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance. The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

This tact is useful for both the in-your-face AMOG as well as the non-direct, status affirmed AMOG. Sometimes proving one’s superiority is simply allowing the mediocre enough time and opportunity to self-destruct. The trick of course is in being prepared to swiftly capitalize on that AMOG’s missteps.

Law 33 – Discover Each Man’s Thumbscrew
Everyone has a weakness, a gap in the castle wall.  That weakness is usualy an insecurity, an uncontrollable emotion or need; it can also be a small secret pleasure.  Either way, once found, it is a thumbscrew you can turn to your advantage.

In the early part of my career in liquor branding I worked for a very rich man in his mid 60s. This guy had quite the resume of “successes”, but for the greater part they’d come from his self-importance and borrowing money than any real talent of his own. He was the owner, but had a reputation for attention seeking and a love of flattery that bordered on arrogance. Usually this would come at the expense of whomever happened to be outshining him as the master.

He was a consummate AMOG, but with no real legitimacy. At one point we had an important negotiation with a Chinese distributor to get our brands into an Asian market and as he’d typically do he wanted to entertain the reps over dinner after a big trade show we’d met them at. They were impressed with me because I was responsible for the creative side of the company, but even with my own deferential credits to my ‘boss’ he took it as an opportunity to AMOG me in front of his new ‘friends’.

I actually saw this coming (it’d happened on other occasions) and I had a good prior knowledge of the sensibilities of the Chinese from my time in doing casino marketing, so I diplomatically let him hang himself with his self-aggrandizement and bluster at my expense. Predictably the reps were off-put by this and we lost the distribution. The good news was that about a year and a half later I was offered a string of very lucrative branding contracts for several of this Asian company’s holdings (2 of which I still front now) because of this patience and letting my boss implode. And all I did was see it coming and let him convict himself.

Every AMOG has a weakness to exploit. Sometimes discovering this requires a patience most guys simply don’t want to wait around for, but with a bit of tact and attention it doesn’t take long. I think the older a man gets the easier it is to judge the character of others (or it should) – you experience the “types” enough to gauge a predictable character action.

There’s an old, but fantastic breakdown of the classic Boyfriend Destroyer script on RSD Nation. I wont repost it here, but if you take a moment to read the script, the premise is one of breaking down a boyfriend’s reputation by indirectly whittling away at the most predictable areas of contention in most relationships. Emphasize his Beta attributes while leading (not telling) her to consider and appreciate your Alpha attributes.

Yes, it’s bad form, and yes, your efforts would be better applied to new prospective plates to spin instead of working on some girl with a boyfriend. However, it is an excellent study in understanding how to deconstruct an AMOG and learning his thumbscrews.

Amused Mastery isn’t just a technique to hold women’s attention, it’s also an effective tool in defusing an AMOG. Once you have an understanding of that AMOG’s weakness – a penchant for self-aggrandizement, a taste for booze or a kind of woman, lack of legitimate ambition, Beta thinking/behavioral tendencies, etc. – the plan then becomes one of emphasizing those character flaws indirectly by exemplifying counter-strengths to those weaknesses.

Women love a man who Just Gets It, and the best, playful way of expressing that is with Amused Mastery; but it’s even more sexy when that Mastery extends to men who she perceives are your intersexual rivals. This then, by association, compliments her ego for your Amused Mastery of her.

429 comments

  1. Jack Donovan’s work (The Way of Men) enlightens one on what an alpha male actually is. Manly behavior does not directly curry favor with women. Healthy men seek approval from other men. This is the way we were designed. Men earn approval within their masculine ingroup by becoming good at useful things, by working hard, and by being loyal. Fucking or even flirting with another man’s wife is, in this context, the opposite of strength or “alpha”. A woman looks to a mans’ associates to see if he has their respect – A woman is attracted to a man that has the respect of other men, a sort of social proof, akin to a man that is associated with other desirable women that desire him (women are attracted to men that other women find attractive).

  2. Excellent play by Leo’s character to hold Frame with her date.

    Didn’t back down.

    Flipped the script.

    Immediately handled him and then focused attention on her.

    Barely acknowledged his presence as well.

  3. Then there is Marty McFly’s way of disposing cock blockers: “Biff, get your damn hands off of her! (Marty successfully delivers a right hook to Biff’s left eye and Biff falls to the ground.)

    “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.” – Mike Tyson

  4. “Far more common however is the AMOG who is unassuming, affable, and honestly a guy you probably can’t help but like. In fact this likability is his primary appeal. Obvious Alpha superiority combined with even a marginal humility makes for an irresistible AMOG to women.”

    Ya, this is why I don’t get punched. Most of the guys I AMOG *LIKE* me because I’m not doing it in the in-your-face frat-bro way people picture in their heads. Most of the time I’m doing it completely under the radar around the guy (like through the girl herself or her friends), or doing it in a way directly to him where he doesn’t realize I have him qualifying himself to me just enough to seem 1% cooler to the girls than him and then hypergamy takes over from there. A lot of the time it’s just nudging the conversation in a certain direction and letting him hang himself.

    You don’t have to destroy a guy, you just have to come off 1% cooler than him to the girls. Get him to qualify or react 1% more to you and then sit back and let it unfold.

    Most AMOGs, just like Naturals, have blind spots that are easy to spot when you’ve been sarging a lot and know what to look for. And there are lots of commonalities like a guy wearing a suit is clearly concerned with appearances so that tells you what area you can probably nudge him to qualify himself in (“man, that’s a slick suit. You’re makin’ me feel underdressed here lol no wonder these girls love you.” It’s all compliments but generally it’s going to get the guy to lol and be a bit embarrassed at the attention and/or want to act humble and pretend it’s no big deal so he doesn’t come off try-hard, and while he’s going through those emotions I can just switch to his girls indirect with “Girls, do I need a suit? What about a shave, this beard is getting crazy. Oh, you like beards do you? What’s your name?”). This guy isn’t going to punch me because all I’ve really done is come in and compliment him and tell him his suit is awesome. Hell, often he ends up offering me a drink lol…But I know where he’s likely to freeze up momentarily and allow me a chance to make my moves before his brain has caught up because I’m executing a very purposeful plan so I’m already a few more steps ahead before he catches up and he has to react to me.

    Think of it like the pickpocket magician that taps your shoulder so you don’t notice him taking off your watch, or who knows you’re going to follow his empty hand while the ball is actually in his other hand, etc. Very few people are going to, the first time they see those tricks, be sharp enough to stay ahead of them. And similarly very few guys are going to be socially warmed up and sharp enough, on the fly during a cold-approach from a random dude who sweeps in, to drop an instant cocky/funny “it’s not the suit, it’s my huge cock.” in response to “no wonder these girls love you”. Like, I’ve had that happen ONCE and I was like shit, bravo dude lol

    Also a lot of the time these guys are actually cool and their AMOG shit just frustrated you more when you started out because you didn’t know how to handle them, but once you “get it” you can end up legitimately respecting eachother and becoming friends.

    The original in-your-face “nice shirt, bro I had one like that in high-school” PUA AMOG stuff was mainly for dealing with the really aggressive AMOGs. Like it’s last call and you’re walking out of a nightclub with a cold-approached 9 who’s into you but she wants a hot dog and you’re stuck at the hot dog stand beside the club surrounded by drunk aggressive dudes who are in “survival of the fittest” mode approaching her trying to take her from you and you have to survive that shitstorm, including her actively engaging them, for like 10-20 minutes before you can finally get her out of there. On top of that, back in those old days you were probably wearing a fuzzy hat and black nailpolish so you were PRIME for getting picked on for looking retarded lol

    Search for “amog” in my archive for more detailed shit about the dynamics/nuances.

    Just come off 1% cooler than the guys around you and hypergamy will do the rest.

  5. Brilliant essay Rollo. It’s amazing how you can assemble sparse PUA practices into a solid model. The fronteers of manosphere knowledge are without doubt established here in your blog.

  6. Another brilliant insight, Rollo.

    I’d go slightly farther and say that the apparent AMOG also acts as a filter, a means of gauging the quality of a woman in a group by her reaction to the AMOG. Women with little loyalty and high hypergamy will move quickly, while wiser women, perhaps more choosy in their opportunism and therefore more considerate, will react much differently. Then there is the Beta girl on the sides, perpetually sidelined due to her low SMV, who may see her opportunity by aligning with an AMOG-aligned Beta, etc.

    Also, flipping the script on an AMOG to a higher-quality woman is usually done by a favorable, though modest, comparison in an arena in which you do excel – and which you have intuited the woman likewise shares an opinion. It can be subtle. Women speak subtle.

    This bears more discussion.

  7. Christian McQueen, thank you and Rollo for that great podcast you did. I put it in rotation on my Ipod and seriously detect different nuances from Rollo’s focused ramblings each of four different times I listened to it. Good leisure time listening.

    Please try to get him to do another podcast.

    The Rational Male (book and blog) and The Way of Men rank in the top three best reads I’ve had in the last 40 years. And just like Minter (heh), I’m well read.

  8. Chess player Bobby Fischer’s last name is spelled with a “c.”

    As for your Asian liquor distribution story, you were the AMOG in the meeting where your boss imploded. You were the AMOG before the meeting, during the meeting, and 18 months later when the Asians came back to you for your own distribution deal. The AMOG is not the front and centre who draws the most attention or has the women whispering after he leaves. AMOG has always been and always will be the man who is most conscious of himself. The man who not only understands how he behaves, but is aware of why he behaves as he does. He may never be predictable to others, but he’s always predictable to himself. Understanding the self first is the only way to experience long term benefits that come from understanding others.

    With true self-awareness there are no surprises in approach, and no disappointments with your own actions and reactions.

  9. If you attach yourself to this type of Alpha and can capitalize on that association then in fact you are Alpha yourself. You are the one who gets it. By default you can only get it if you are prerequisited for being Alpha. I have never seen Beta depose Alpha and walk away with prize. Alpha will simply not let you win. If Alpha is just an asshole and benefits only when he is in his social setting there could be need for expansion of the term Alpha.
    How much of Alpha he would be in trenches when bullets are flying by his head. Is he still the Alpha after he soiled his pants? The Alpha from high school? It is complex this Alpha status term. There could be term ultimate alpha and derivatives there off.

  10. No disrespect to any of the principle characters but the Chr. McQ. podcast was a perfect exposition of this above blog post. I.E. Christian the AMOG (for real) is charmed by Rollo’s skilled art of AMOG. All of the principals hit a home run.
    Complementary, not competitive.

  11. Game recognizes game.

    OK.

    While I am gushing and you guys are helping me not get frivorced. Let me just say:

    Ian Ironwood is one of the most skilled writers of Alpha Style.
    The Manosphere book and the book of Alpha Moves have scored beautifully for me in a non-toxic harmonious relationship.

    Simply wearing a peacock Australian Outfitters hat to the superbowl party last night accomplishes wonders. ALA the black fedora.

    Simple truths.

  12. ManPersonNumber6462: “Men earn approval within their masculine ingroup by becoming good at useful things, by working hard, and by being loyal …. A woman looks to a mans’ associates to see if he has their respect – A woman is attracted to a man that has the respect of other men, a sort of social proof, akin to a man that is associated with other desirable women that desire him…”

    This may be true, but it falls apart in a setting with many people living in one place – say, more than about 200. Once you get past tribal sizes, not everyone knows each other or their abilities well, so it becomes easy to fake confidence in the absence of useful skills or accomplishments; all people have to go on is your demeanor. Game capitalizes on this fact; you can get girls interested in you in the absence or real skills or accomplishments.

  13. StitchInTime: “AMOG has always been and always will be the man who is most conscious of himself. The man who not only understands how he behaves, but is aware of why he behaves as he does. He may never be predictable to others, but he’s always predictable to himself. Understanding the self first is the only way to experience long term benefits that come from understanding others.”

    Nothing to add, just thought it bore repeating. Well done.

    YaReally: Good to see ya here! Haven’t seen you around in a while. Your enthusiastic game explication is always a welcome break from the common heavy topics around here (my commentary included).

  14. Good post. First one in a while where I didn’t want to cut my wrists afterwards.

    But really, I liked the part about the AMOG being the affable type. This has been an observation of mine and is the first time that I’ve read it confirmed. The super-asshole will never be as succesful with women as the guy who knows when to be an asshole and when to be charming.

  15. Great post as always Rollo. I’ve been working to become the AMOG in my own little corner, it’s a work in process and this article is a helpful boost.

    I’m going to check out the Christian McQueen podcast as well. I enjoy Christian’s blog as much as I do Rational Male, and find his practical game advice to be a great supplement to Rollo’s wisdom.

    I’ve stopped going to Return Of Kings as I feel the quality of articles has plummeted and there are a lot more bigots (race/religion etc) commenting there. Both Rollo and Christian make men of all backgrounds feel welcome, a hospitality ROK appears to lack on some level due to various prejudices in its core community.

    I noticed that Christian’s articles were erased from ROK, anybody now what the falling out was about?

  16. Outstanding framework for teaching game-learning men the psychological framework for how to succeed….right up til you link Papa from RSD.

    Don’t get me wrong, that M.O. will work on chicks with weak boyfriends/husbands just fine – but if an aspiring PUA operates that way with a gf/wife of an alpha who just basically shrugs and/or regards the poacher as a creepy pursuer, it’ll backfire. Even if the aspiring PUA is just trying to poach in a new environment, for a ONS, with no ties to the contextual milieu – he’ll sabotage himself for probably the rest of the night.

    Then I suppose the question is ‘do you want to be that guy’ – a guy rooting himself in scarcity mentality by choice.

    My point is – I think you missed just one very key component to the framework – if an aspiring PUA wants to truly shed his insecurities, his ‘thumbscrews’ if you like – and be virtually psychologically impenetrable – it all comes down to outcome independence and just not caring about one woman all that much, even if she’s your gf or even wife. The shrug is your million dollar insurance policy.

  17. “The shrug is your million dollar insurance policy”

    I strongly agree.

    The article makes very convicing points for something that more readers/TRP-followers seem to know every month:

    At it’s core, AMOG is not a direct, visible “attack”, but a display of value.
    Someone who was amoged might perceive this in a very different way, of course. 🙂

    In males, this behaviour actually starts early and without resulting in “fights” or “angry displays” of AMOG:
    When you are in a social setting with other guys who are (at least in part) manly, it is perfectly normal to do non-sexual shit tests, make jokes about one another etc. – being butthurt about that just shows where a man has to *improve* to close a gap in development or skill.

    But even this higher level of AMOG (beyond e.g. primitive insults) can be beaten by a (originally) dysfunctional communication that works brilliant in our (dysfunctional) society, as far as pussys are concerned:
    “The shrug”, aka just not careing at all.

    It’s a telling sign that the best results from social interaction (as far as today’s women are concerned) is a dysfunctional reaction of complete detachment.

    Even if you are very witty in banter, always have a good (or just quick, that’s better than nothing) reply/reaction prepared – you save great amounts of time, social/mental energy and prevent a lot of potential trouble (depending on the situation and venue) by just acknowleding you heard what was said and not giving a fuck.
    My favourite to-go-solution is just saying “Ok.”

    In very rare instances, you have to be prepared to “go outside” with the other guy – but this very unlikly scenario is often overblown in internet conversations, imho.
    Because
    1) a detachted person
    2) not looking for a fight/trouble/negative events
    3) with a cultivated, dysfunctional social attitude *that is not showcased or carried before you like some LSE-men do*
    is usuallly left alone by more primitive versions of AMOGing guys.

    Of course, you have to be prepared – but, as stated above, this unlikely situation is often overblown in internet discussions.

  18. “Don’t get me wrong, that M.O. will work on chicks with weak boyfriends/husbands just fine – but if an aspiring PUA operates that way with a gf/wife of an alpha who just basically shrugs and/or regards the poacher as a creepy pursuer, it’ll backfire. Even if the aspiring PUA is just trying to poach in a new environment, for a ONS, with no ties to the contextual milieu – he’ll sabotage himself for probably the rest of the night.”

    I agree.

    There is a different, very simple reason that supports your statement, too:
    A man doesn’t even have to be a real alpha but just a sane, healthy man (perhaps even a functioning higher beta or even a LSE-person of the aggressive subset) to do a very simple thing:

    If somebody tries to poach “your” woman/women right before your eyes/in your face, you stop that. (Baring a situation where you definitly know it would get you in trouble with the law/CCTV etc.)

    Not because of the woman (this is critical) – but because that guy is trying to poach your “game”/disrespecting you personally.

  19. “Bear this in mind when you’re confronted with a guy “all the girls love”. There’s a tendency on the part of Beta leaning guys to think the AMOG is a ‘natural’ Alpha when in fact he’s really domain dependent on the social environment you share with him. Of course there will always be guys who excel in almost any environment because Hypergamy is universal to women and a ‘hawt guy’ is ‘hawt’ to all women, but remove him from his preferred domain to one you’re better adept in, or, outperform him in his domain with a particular strength or expertise you possess in such a way that he’s forced to acknowledge your skill.”

    There is an easy alternative:
    A domain dependant/ situational alpha that blocks your game *could* be moved.
    Sure – almost all humans have some psychological need or weakness you can work on via deception…and why shouldn’t you. (–> new set of books etc.pp.)

    But there is also a different way:
    Instead of expending enormous amounts of energy to beat “that guy” in his domain for the explicit goal of getting women there – be more detached, be ready to lose not just women (–>abundance mentality) but be ready to
    1) lose
    or
    2) lower invest in
    social circles.

    Detachment 2.0 – don’t give a fuck about social circles that don’t give you what YOU want.

    That doesn’t mean being butthurt and storming out of the door everywhere where effort is required – just don#t overinvest in useless SCs.

    Simple example:
    I’m just getting started with sports/fitness again.
    As soon as I enter any social enviroment dedicated to sports, I’m thus very low on the totem pole. (Because women, as they do everywhere, scan for their preferred hypoergamy – so a woman in a sports enviroment is not primarily looking for “a guy like me”, but e.g. for the typical athletic alpha jerk)

    Does that mean I should not do sports? 😀
    Of couse not – I just lower my invest, which means I go “there”, train, do not give any emotional, financial or attention beta bucks to any of the HBs there at all, achive my goals for the training session (hopefully 🙂 ) and “go home”.

  20. I’d not criticize the master on semantics, but sometimes when the boss was extemporizing on his own magnificence, I got the vibe I wasn’t in the presence of an AMOG, but rather a greater beta in constant need of affirmation.

    If I could gbfm for a moment, Petronius, in his Satyricon, described a dude, Trimalchio, who had the best of everything ancient Rome could offer and described it all at length. When he finally passes out from the finest of wines, the visitors, bored with his feasting and generosity, “give Agamemnon the slip” and duck out of there.

    An American author wanted to retell that story, only set in the Jazz Age. He finally decided his title should be “Trimalchio in America,” but his publisher stuck to the original title they’d agreed on, “The Great Gatsby.”

    lollzzz lollzzz

    (It’s a mistake often made. I leafed through an unauthorized bio on John Paulson, the guy who shorted the housing market, and currently owns one of my banks, a lot of an ND oil company that I should have sold more of, and most of Tierra Verde in Puerto Rico. Paulson, when just an ordinary hedge fund manager, was described as mild, unassuming, having a charming manner with the ladies, with a habit of picking the oddest new residences for everybody to come party in, sometimes incredibly decorated, sometimes shabby chic, always a blast but often quirky, so unlike the “alpha males” who boasted of their wealth at every turn while drinking his booze. Stopped reading after that, the author was no Michael Lewis.)

  21. One very difficult hurdle men have in unplugging is getting past what they believe is the emulation of the Alpha Jerk who so regularly outperformed them, if not bullied them – yet, his asshole ways were still undeniably effective with the women he wanted to get with. Thus, for men who come to Red Pill awareness there’s a natural resistance to become that guy.

    This also, never gets any easier for me. I still get feelings of automatic resentment and disqualifying someone as a potential friend when I perceive them AMOGing. On this topic, it almost literally causes me physical discomfort when I recognize how f-ed up my thinking patterns became because of comfortable and pretty little lies the FI loved to drill into me. And I still often find myself automatically displaying the beta rather than becoming AMOG myself, even when I have cause to AMOG someone.

  22. Back to the Future? What the hell?

    Marty had the girlfriend from frame one until frame “end”, with no deviation, losing her, or catering to her. She was a prop on his arm that was a mild side story at best.

    Marty’s main antagonist was *himself* and overcoming his own weaknesses which had *zero* to do with his girlfriend. She may have been present in the scene where he decides not to drag race, but the reason he doesn’t has nothing at all to do with her.

    Overcoming Biff across the episodes was the supposed traditional antagonist who turned into a parody of himself by the end of the first film (of three) and served as little more than a plot device to make the next two movies work 50’s Biff, Old Biff, Future Biff, Old West Biff were all characters which allowed Marty to combat not them specifically, but his own recklessness. Ultimately, as stated, Marty was fighting his own impulsiveness and temper, a point roundly made when he encounters his 1800’s Irish immigrant ancestors.

    What Marty’s girlfriend had to do with any of this, the few scenes she was even present, is a mystery to be certain.

    Or were you talking the elder McFly (his father)? Even then, it was movie one and done for even that “man up and get the girl” moment.

  23. Rollo – (video) – exactly. It can backfire far worse than had the AMOGing not been attempted and rather a man just remained asocial (or worse).

    Jeremy – “This also, never gets any easier for me. I still get feelings of automatic resentment and disqualifying someone as a potential friend when I perceive them AMOGing.”

    To the extent that there’s a primitive, bellicose style AMOGing being attempted on you personally, I’d say that’s a healthy impulse – to not want to befriend a would-be poacher. He’s just an irritating boil you have to lance, and most likely via indifference. Why would anyone want to befriend a guy operating from scarcity with somewhat nefarious intentions? He’s just a small-scale irritant. This gets into another RP truth – that very, very few people you meet have anything of value to add, whatsoever, to your life (or your enjoyment of the night out, etc) when you’re operating from abundance.

  24. Ok, that was some damn funny shit. They kept managing to top themselves which was surprising. The appearance of a gov’t official to delete social handouts was hilariously unexpected, as was Obama’s brilliant inclusion.

  25. @GhostOfJefferson

    Back to the Future? What the hell?

    I tripped on this as well, But Rollo’s speaking about Marty’s father.

  26. Anytime I use a movie, book or some fictional account to illustrate a point I always run the risk of having readers fixate on the particulars (rather than the generalities) of the story.

    “Generally”, the theme of boy-overcoming-bully-to-get-girl is a cyclic theme.

    I mentioned Back to the Future because both Marty and his Father faced the same theme in different time periods and different generations. Obviously they both handle the bully in different ways, but the theme remains constant.

  27. I completely understand the problems in movie references. If I were to have written this post Rollo, I would have used “Lucas” (1986). Lucas doesn’t get the girl in the end, which is all the more real.

  28. I think it’s a thin case at best for Marty’s girlfriend in the exact specific scenarios you’re alluding to (for which Spiderman is in fact a perfect example). But this is of course off topic, so I’ll leave it at that.

  29. Spiderman is a no-brainer, but I actually think Captain America really tells it best. Scrawny guy who gets his ass kicked, has his best friend stick up for him against bullies, can’t join the army, can’t get any play from women even though his heart and desire are in the righteous place. Then extraordinarily he’s give a chance to instantly turn himself into a superhero, to exceed all performance requirements to the apex of all expectations, save the world and get not just “the girl”, but “the right girl for him” who we’re expected to believe sees past his apex physical perfection (though she certainly gets tingles) and loves him for “who he is” and his ‘goodness’.

  30. RE: Back to the Future.

    George McFly captures Lorraine’s sexual interest through an alpha display (manning up, putting Biff on the ground), immediately followed by Marty’s loss of perceived SMV via his embarrassing guitar-shredding antics. Afterward, there is the uncomfortable “LJBF” moment when she tells Marty that his performance was “interesting,” then goes home on George McFly’s arm.

    I would argue that Marty McFly is pretty RP already. No sexual interest in Lorraine (yet fully captivating her), obviously on solid ground with his devoted girlfriend without extraneous effort, boldly devoted to his interests/mission, and relatively fearless about actively pushing forward under dangerous circumstances. The only weak link in his RP armor that I can see is that he has a “short man with something to prove” complex. e.g. “Did you just call me chicken?”

    I agree with GhostOfJefferson that Marty’s girlfriend is merely a prop.

  31. Lucas is exactly Captain America, minus the superhero, perhaps that’s why it doesn’t work for an AMOG post. But the burden of performance on the scrawny kid is so well drawn out in that movie, I think it deserves mention in RP/BP discussion somewhere.

    And yeah, Marty’s gf is definitely just a prop. She has maybe 2 lines in the two follow on movies. She probably just serves as social proof for Michael J Fox so that women will appreciate the movie more.

  32. Rollo, guys, I dunno if you have watched “Nightcrawler”…but I think that is one one the best RP movies from 2014…
    The display by the protagonist should form, along with RM and other readings, the hand book for every man….
    The character is a sort of antithesis to amoging, just being a man, purposeful in every way…

  33. Ok I’ll be the asshole since I get the impression no one else is going to call this out:

    @steve h
    @447

    Good god the mental masturbation. Try not to slip on your jizz, guys.

    Anyone who thinks the BF Destroyer stuff doesn’t work is someone who either doesn’t go out or has just never tried it extensively. It’s killer. Lethal shit.

    This nonsense?:

    “Don’t get me wrong, that M.O. will work on chicks with weak boyfriends/husbands just fine – but if an aspiring PUA operates that way with a gf/wife of an alpha who just basically shrugs and/or regards the poacher as a creepy pursuer, it’ll backfire.”

    “If somebody tries to poach “your” woman/women right before your eyes/in your face, you stop that. (Baring a situation where you definitly know it would get you in trouble with the law/CCTV etc.)”

    Did either of you even read “Papa”s post? It’s not about directly AMOGing a guy it’s about going thru his girl and not dealing with him at all. That’s why it’s so powerful, it reframes everything the guy does in an unattractive light in the girl’s mind. It doesn’t matter what he does, her perception is realigned to view it as chode. The shrugging “ok” is twisted into an indicator that he’s too weak to actively protect his woman etc. The BF Destroyers are about poisoning the well.

    It’s all explained in depth that post you didn’t read.

    “Even if the aspiring PUA is just trying to poach in a new environment, for a ONS, with no ties to the contextual milieu – he’ll sabotage himself for probably the rest of the night.”

    This is not how it works at ALL in real life. This is fantasy made up by guys who are scared of imaginary worst-case scenarios and who want to reaffirm to themselves that their way that isn’t producing results is the “righteous” way. Trying to get good at pickup while staying away from any girls with boyfriends or in mixed sets or with orbiters is like trying to become a rich CEO without making anyone directly or indirectly sad or butthurt or jealous on your way up lol

    Have either of you cold approached mixed sets before? Have either of you spent a few months TRYING a the shit “Papa” wrote about before declaring your silly fantasies about what will happen if a guy tries it? Have either of you pulled girls from mixed sets or girls with boyfriends/husbands/orbiters before? Have either of you “won” girls when other guys are going for them too?

    Have either of you fucked anything above a 6? The hot girls have AMOGs around them in their social circles, that’s just reality.

    This shit is why I call the manosphere PUA-Lite. It’s the same shit PUAs have taught since the beginning but with all the “mean” stuff (which is only “mean” in the way a girl thinks guys shit-talking over sports is “mean” or a white knight thinks teasing a girl is “mean”) neutered to hold onto white knight sensibilities so as not to offend anyone. Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.

    Here’s a frame to consider: when you ACTUALLY have abundance and so does the other guy, neither of you CARES if the other guy poaches the girl. You lol and go “shit good game” and can even become friends over the mutual respect. If someone can take my girl then good on them cause that would take some sick game to pull off…I can get another girl it’s no big deal. If I had been on my game tighter she wouldn’t have been as easy to poach so it’s partly my fault for slacking and giving that guy a window of opportunity. I don’t blame him for trying to fuck her, she’s HOT that’s why I’m with her, I EXPECT half the guys in the room to try to fuck her if they have eyeballs lol. If she gets poached I don’t blame her, she’s running on hypergamy not logic so if buddy found a way to raise his value or lower mine to her then it’s natural that she’ll fuck him and that tells me there’s some hole in my game I need to work on for the future. If one of those guys gets her then I’ll replace her but I’m more curious who this dude who’s at my level of game is, cause maybe he’d make a good wingman to roll with lol

    Can either of you relate to that kind of thinking or is it too foreign to you? What you’re writing is viewing it from scarcity like “omg he’s POACHING that girl…he’s BAD! He’s ruining TRUE LOVE!! I would never interfere with TRUE LOVE. If I accept that it’s just a game to other people, the girl included, then I have to question whether TRUE LOVE exists and even tho I’m reading this pickup stuff I’m still secretly hoping to find my unicorn and have TRUE LOVE so when someone talks about taking a girl I’m picturing them taking my unicorn away and that gives me sad feels”

    It’s not about “oh I’m in scarcity so I HAVE to go after the girl with the boyfriend.” That’s literally the same silly keyboard jockey circle jerk rationalization that goes on in places like r/relationships/ and HUS to desperately cling to the blue pill and reject the “mean” side of PUA.

    It’s about “this is all a big silly game and girls are replaceable and friendly competition is fine, like lions play fighting may the best man win”. Does a basketball player think someone stealing the ball is mean or in scarcity? Lol it’s just a game they can shake hands after even if they lose because it’s a game to them.

    You view it as someone weaselly stealing from you because you view the girl as irreplaceable and a significant loss as if this was the last basketball game you’ll ever be allowed to play. That’s scarcity in action.

  34. that wolf of wall street scene is so good and she’s a 10 if one exists. and I don’t even prefer blondes.

  35. Need YaReally advice: I have a “scarcity” of male buddies with whom I can go out. Yeah I need to work on that, but in the meantime: this one buddy of mine is an “almost” natural or lower-alpha natural who used to have some game and pull some cute girls, but has been married for about 9 years and has 3 kids. But he can sometimes go out with me. I’m a greater beta “almost sometimes accidental” alpha who can comfortably flirt with women, look them in the eye, be cute and unfazed by sarcasm, etc. I’m pretty much the equal of my married friend–except that I think I’m slightly better and he keeps effing things up for me (partly I think cause he does not give a f*ck and would not actually cheat on his wife) by being too beta almost on purpose. He’s a good dude and I don’t think he would cock block me intentionally (or even subconsciously intentionally) either.

    Example FR from last week: we were having a beer at a place that was basically empty on a cold night. The waitress was a cute 7 who was very bored and totally into chatting with both of us. My style is to kind of hang back, not be shy but try not to be spergy. The problem is that my friend starts out cool but then gets kind of spergy. For example, he blurts out compliments to her appearance (“you are hot”), kind of almost cringe-worthy stuff IMO. I’m trying to just converse with the girl, look her in the eye, lean back in alpha posture, but he does sort of end up “AMOGing” (in a bad way) by talking too much and making it hard for me to say anything, even though he’s married and going home to his wife, whereas I’m single and could hook up with the girl.

    I’m wondering if you’re going to jump on me and say I must be doing something wrong or it’s a true AMOG, or you need more info, or what.

    Or could it be that he’s just not going to make a very good wing. I’ve tried to talk to him about a little bit of red pill stuff but he’s not ready for it. (Ya he’s pretty blue pill even though I said he had some natural game before he got married–he’s good looking and charming.)

    Like, my opinion is that I”m doing pretty good and he needs to just back off a little bit instead of hogging the conversation. Are you going to tell me it is my fault that happens? What am I supposed to do?

    Oh, in this last example, the girl was wearing an engagement ring, and I made a little comment like “cool ring” but I was going to ignore or blast right through that…. as it was indeed total BS and the girl claimed to have been engaged for 3 years and ya right that was some kind of shit test.

    Also I had the logistics…my apartment is a mile from the spot, so had things worked right I could have taken her right back to my apartment when she got off of work (this was a week night).

  36. @anon, Margot Robbie is a fuckin’ hammer. HB9 on the Tomassi scale.

    The BF Destroyers are about poisoning the well.

    There will always be areas of Game men will be uncomfortable employing for themselves. Robert Greene mentions something similar in the intro of 48 Laws of Power.

    Power isn’t good or evil, it’s all in the application. Just because you’re uncomfortable applying a law doesn’t mean your adversary is. You may think you have some moral high ground for not employing it, and it might make a victory more significant to you, but understand that still doesn’t invalidate the base truths of that law.

    I added a caveat to the BF Destroyer link, and I think that from a Red Pill perspective it behooves any man to consider his own motivation for approaching, sarging or otherwise entertaining any effort he invest in a woman. Every new experience with a woman should be preceded by an effort/reward insight and consideration.

    Most times your effort would be better applied in developing new prospects in favor of trying to ‘poach’ a woman. If she’s not certain about her attraction to you – invest in women who are and let her sort it out for herself in the meantime. But don’t think a BF Destroy and the underlying principles behind it aren’t valid. And certainly don’t think that those principles can’t or wont be exploited by other men.

    I used that link because the social and psychological dynamics that make a BF Destroyer effective can and should be modified to a guy’s advantage in dealing with an AMOG situation.

  37. @YaReally

    Thanks for that. Things like that need to be said more often around here.

    You also bring up the scarcity position, which is something that I haven’t noticed discussed much lately. It ties in directly with a failed point I tried to play devils advocate on 2 threads ago about being upset at getting your girl(SO or even wife) poached from you. Only a scarcity mindset gets upset at being poached, just as you said. The correct mindset is to simply congratulate the “poacher” and regard a woman who may be violating a commitment to you as not worth your commitment. Again I acknowledge the position of weakness from which I argue on this point.

  38. lol, can’t read YaReally’s blog at work… Reason: Pornography

    Can’t read the rdsnation.com link either… Reason: Adult

    Blue pill world strikes again on my lunch hour.

  39. @anon
    Speak up more, AMOG him “sorry about my buddy he has apparently never seen a girl before lol”, or ditch him and find a single dude in-field who’s on your wavelength. Can’t make people swallow the red pill and he has no reason to change his behaviour because he has a wife and kids. There’s no incentive for him to change what he’s been doing for years.

    @rollo
    lol ya I caught your “how do I link this without people misinterpreting my point and getting sidetracked or tossing it out like they would with a back to the future example” hesitation in the original article so I know you get it. That’s why I dropped by the comments to expand on it, I don’t mind being the asshole lol

    As far as new prospects go, 10+, maybe even 5 years ago I’d agree with that. But now? With the advent of social media and all the insane worldwide validation and orbiting etc that comes with it? And with the spread of pickup and the red pill as men slowly up their game? Finding girls who are hot and legit don’t have any AMOGs chasing them or orbiters to deal with or fuckbuddies to compete with (even if those FBs are just an ex-boyfriend she keeps for emergency cock or an orbiter who’s decent in bed but so intolerably beta that she has to dodge his needy texts for 2 weeks after etc), in 2015, esp in the <30 crowd is like…not UNREALISTIC per say, but like, really optimistic and extremely limiting in terms of how much experience you can gain.

    In 2015 it's simply a reality that you have to learn how to deal with other men in the context of getting/keeping women. Whether it's direct competition in a social setting or whether it's indirect competition when your girl posts her bikini pics and gets 500 Likes and comments from dudes and some guy in another country with his BMWs in his profile pics messaging her telling her he wants to fly her and her girlfriend to Paris for a dinner date etc (and he can actually afford to)

    In the past that guy had no access to communicate with her or even know she exists. But in 2015 the whole world will try to fuck your girl if she's hot (and even if she's not lol).

    You can go the route of the guy who goes to the gym and decides the other guys are in better shape and the girls will want them instead so you ignore all the girls and just exercise and go home to porn and writing blog comments but that's a pretty self-defeating approach to life. Just get in there and mix it up and become good enough to compete without having a 6-pack lol it's entirely doable if you don't let your brain self-sabotage you as it tries to keep you in your comfort zone and protect your ego from possible rejection.

    Guys will watch Fight Club and think the line "I don't want to die without any scars" is a great insight to being a man and challenging yourself…then they go to the gym or join a sport and say "oh I dont out-excel these guys yet so I won't bother approaching that 9 over there" and don't see the disconnect as their brain tries to avoid being humbled by field experience to grow.

    And yes, those BF Destroyers are a must-read and are applicable outside of the boyfriend context (boardroom, social circles, hell even competing in politics etc). Even if a guy doesn't USE them himself, he should understand them so he can observe them in action in the natural world around him where people are executing them consciously or subconsciously. Like watch a political/ideological debate or marketing campaign or mass media story (like the UVA false rape explosion or gamergste or MRA slander on Jezebel) thru the context of understanding AMOG and BF Destruction concepts and you'll see the matrix underneath it that the average person doesn't see.

  40. I agree YaReally, denying the tactics behind the BF destroyer would work on a ‘quality woman’ is denying reality. It’s trying to assure oneself that more control over monogamy is possible than actually is.

    A kind of paradoxical danger here is that someone with a scarcity mentality might use it as a way to fool themselves into thinking they’re gaming girls all red pill and shit, when they’re actually fixating on a girl who isn’t really the best prospect. Kinda, ‘I’ll get that girl no matter what, even if she has a boyfriend!’ No danger of someone with your experience I believe, but it can be an issue for guys still unplugging, I can say that first hand.

    I disagree that the Red Pill is PUA lite. It’s just broader in focus; a lot of guys here don’t want to be PUA’s, so they don’t start from a place of already seeing the whole thing as a big game – as any aspiring pua must. Internalizing that mindset takes a while if you’re locked in a marriage you’re trying to save for the kids or something (not my circumstance fortunately) because you can’t easily get the experiences that would teach you how shit really goes down.

  41. Hi,
    interesting subject. That reminded me of one situation i encountered with my now ex girlfriend of 5 years. im 27, she is 22. After night out in town we went to one of that kebab stands to eat something and as we placed our orders two guys came and waited in line behind us.
    They both were pretty tipsy, loud and were cracking some jokes and laughing. Now im fairly tall, 6,4 and jacked but one of that guys was like 6,5, way more jacked than me and boxer as i heard through conversation.
    now i could immediately spot that my girls attention was at that big guy because he was very loud and funny i admit. He saw her and told to sandwich man: oh man this girl is so cute i wish i could have her and he said it loud so everybody could hear it. she smiled at him and he than acknowledged that she is my girl and said sorry man but she is soo hot i think im in love. i laughed and remained cool because i couldnt be mad at him, she was really hot. He also wanted to pay for our kebabs to show that he has money, idk.
    Now this guy drunk as he was starts talking with us and eats his kebab and he said something like oh this kebab is so good you must try it and put it in front of my girl. She started to move closer to take a bite and looked at me. i just said hey hey and she stopped. after that i took her by the hand, we said goodbys and left,
    Now i am confident guy, i remained relaxed and all but i could feel that that guy affected my state and inside i was angry at her,
    that was hypergamy at work, bigger , stronger louder guy, typical alpha,(typical Croat 🙂 ) and she couldnt resist herself.
    That confirms that AMOG doesnt have to be agrresive guy. this guy was fairly friendly and cool i must admit. But he tried to make moves in front of me.
    How would you react in that situation?
    p.s. sorry for my english, i tried my best..

  42. @Jeremy
    “about being upset at getting your girl(SO or even wife) poached from you. Only a scarcity mindset gets upset at being poached, just as you said. The correct mindset is to simply congratulate the “poacher” and regard a woman who may be violating a commitment to you as not worth your commitment. Again I acknowledge the position of weakness from which I argue on this point.”

    This is dead-on.

    Why would you be with a girl no one else wants to fuck? What’s next get a hot girl but tell her to dress frumpy when you go out to protect your scarce prize? I tell my girls to doll up and make the guys in the room jealous cause I’m proud of her and like to show her off. Of course they’ll all try to fuck her whether they’re the creepy old store clerk trying to make small talk about the weather or the guy cat-calling her on the street or the cool bartender giving her free drinks or the orbiter on her Facebook trying to private message woo her or the player in her social circle who’s had his eye on her or her ex-BF who wants her back or the sneaky PUA trying to poison the well.

    Of COURSE they all wanna fuck her lol

    But if they succeed then that just tells me:

    1) my game wasn’t tight. I let my value slip somewhere enough for there to be an opening. If I was the highest value guy (and that doesn’t mean owning more BMWs or being better at a sport or lifting heavier weights, it means internally believing 100% to my core that I am by default even at my worst better than all of those guys that have all of those things), then she wouldn’t be poachable. Hyprgamy plus “what you feel, she feels” will prevent it.

    2) she’s made a bad life decision to choose to be downgraded from girlfriend/LTR to fuckbuddy. I feel bad for her that she would choose that but that’s okay because I have a couple other FBs who would LOVE to take her place and I can find more if I need to. She may be able to get back into my graces but it will be a lot of work and I may decide she isn’t worth allowing to be in that position in my life.

    3) that guy has game. And he’s just doing what any man instinctively does: try to fuck a pretty girl. I can’t blame him lol plus he’s exposed a weakness in my game/value for me to fix. If I want to keep her then I’d better stay higher value than him in her eyes. The BF Destroyer is about making everything I do seem like I’m doing (even stuff that was formerly right action like the “ok” shrug) is coming from a place of low value so it’s extremely hard to defend against…but it’s so rare for a guy to study it (guaranteed half the people reading this blog about this exact topic didn’t bother reading it and won’t go out and apply it until they master it) that it’s not really a concern to me.

    I didn’t read the other thread but what you wrote right here (Jeremy) is accurate. But guys who aren’t out there slaying it won’t be able to relate to these mindsets. They’re still picturing a happy ending with the mythical unicorn in their head.

    And when they find that unicorn, because they’ve clung to the belief that the right one will be “special” and ignored all the warnings by red pill guys with experience to keep gaming their LTR and keep running dread game etc, because they’ll go “that’s all MEEEEAN. Maybe you have to do that with that low value bar sluts but MY girl is different. You guys just don’t understand…MY girl Is special.”

    And that exact thinking is what will lead to those guys slacking off on staying as attractive as possible to stay at the top of her Hypergamy’s radar because they were never trying to MAKE IT just fake it and they’re relieved they can finally hang up the red pill cape n cowl and relax.

    …and that’s the exact moment their girl meets a guy like me and fucks me. Because that guy left a hole wide open (lol) for other guys to capitalize on. All cause he wouldn’t let go of his fingertip grasp on the blue pill and dismissed that BF Destroyers link with silly fantasies of how it’ll explode in the person’s evil face for being MEEEEEAN instead of reading and applying it to understand it’s relevance.

  43. Rollo: “But don’t think a BF Destroy and the underlying principles behind it aren’t valid. And certainly don’t think that those principles can’t or wont be exploited by other men.”

    This is essential. Even if you wouldn’t use a trick yourself, you must understand it so you can a) avoid falling prey the best you can; and b) know what went wrong if you do fall prey.

    It’s like being a man who would never run a scam on anyone for money. If you don’t nonetheless understand that some people are greedy for money, and how they might take it from you, you’ll be a sitting duck.

    Personally, I agree that it’s typically bad form. And I wouldn’t run it at all on a women who had kids with her SO, or who had said marriage vows. I recognize this may come off as naive. I know precious few women truly take them seriously. But I don’t like to interfere with others’ religious convictions, so long as they don’t interfere with mine.

    Similarly, I’d be reluctant to sleep with a girl if I felt relatively sure she had actually kept herself chaste for marriage, rare as that may be…

    Not trying to wag any fingers here, this is a place for pragmatic truths. I rarely hear ethics talked about here. Maybe they’re best avoided, ethics can be yet another rationalization mechanism.

  44. @forgetthesky

    Ya I’m glad the manosphere and /TRP/ exist. I’m glad there’s a “pua-lite” because realistically pua is too over the top for most guys to be open to let alone get into and ultimately even if 80% of dudes only get 40% of the message that’s better than them getting 0% of the message. Like that married dude with kids needs something digestible to fix his life and in the end I just want all guys to be able to fix their shit and live the life they want.

    But when these manosphere convos turn to balls to the wall in-field legit pickup tactics and they shit on the old school PUA stuff then in comes YaReally to bitchslap some sense into the hugbox before it becomes a circle jerk of keyboard jockey theory backing up keyboard jockey theory lol

    If you go study those BF Destroyers and spend 6 months actively applying them in-field in a variety of situations and master them and THEN tell me they don’t work, then ok let’s discuss why we got different results and figure out where the disconnect is etc. but if you don’t even read them, let alone apply them? You’re talking out your ass and I will call you on it.

    In the old days we didn’t even let people post routines and theories until they had successfully tested them at LEAST 3x in-field. And when someone posted theories we all went out and tested the fuck out of them and compared results to narrow down the nuances.

    We did all that because we knew keyboard jockeys were going to come in spouting their theories they imagine in their heads of how shit would play out and that 90% of that would be obliterated with actual in-field experience.

    So I’m glad other groups are getting this knowledge out there repackaged into more digestible spoon-fed meals, because ultimately it helps men as a whole, but when it comes to real-world tactics a lot of the community is talking out their ass and should be called out for it to avoid perpetuating bullshit myths that hold back men who may give their word authority lol

    Again this isn’t dircted at Rollo, I know he knows his shit and stays objective lol

  45. YaReally, your points about how social media has blown women’s options wide open is well-taken. We’ve gone from a world where monogamy held uneasy sway, to a world where temporary mating arrangements ruled (even if we still called some of them ‘marriages’) subject to possible upgrades. I suppose I haven’t even calibrated to that yet and now even that system is obsolete; even those temporary arrangements don’t hold, where the only rules are ‘always be the best’ and ‘diversify your portfolio, don’t invest in one place (spin plates).’

    I’ll have to reconsider how I think about things.

  46. “Personally, I agree that it’s typically bad form. And I wouldn’t run it at all on a women who had kids with her SO, or who had said marriage vows. I recognize this may come off as naive. I know precious few women truly take them seriously. But I don’t like to interfere with others’ religious convictions, so long as they don’t interfere with mine.”

    Ya. It may come as a surprise to people who read what I wrote here because it’s SO easy to paint people saying things that make you uncomfortable as villains so of course I seem like a ruthless asshole who’s trying to break up families left and right and shit so that my words can be dismissed easier instead of considering the harsh reality-fucking truths they contain.

    But I have my own code of girls and relationships I don’t interfere with. Hell, I dropped a long term fuckbuddy entirely, one I liked a lot (still my fav lay to this day) because she was getting married (to her high school sweetheart) and wanted to try to be a good wife as of their wedding day not fucking around on him and she stopped initiating txt with me a month before the wedding. I could have EASILY kept that going but I respect what she was trying to do and backed off completely and legitimately hope their relationship works out. She never texted me again and I never texted her.

    In a way I was the safest last bang before her wedding. If she had been fucking some other guy he might try to fuck their relationship up post-wedding. But I have the abundance to back off.

    I’m also not interested in breaking up families so if a girl wants to bang and is probably going to cheat with someone else if it’s not me, and I know she has a hubby and kids happy family style I’ll just be super aloof and make sure she doesn’t get attached to me or think I would ever replace her hubby (whereas a lot of normal dudes would promise her the world and she might divorce her hubby and break the family up then find out the guy doesn’t want her).

    I also don’t take girls from chodey betas at the bar, I usually try to help them get the girl they have a crush on lol cause I remmeber what being them was like. And definitely would never bang a buddy’s girl.

    I use most of this knowledge as self defence or to help buddies out. You can use the BF Destroyer concepts to poison the well for orbiters and sneaky guys too. Exact same way.

    So I HAVE a personal moral code, it’s just unique to me and my belief systems and most guys who haven’t been out a lot and experienced a lot of what someone who’s doing pickup regularly experiences won’t be able to relate to it and will disagree with parts of it so I don’t bother to talk about it much.

  47. @YaReally – I’ve apparently struck a nerve, huh? You wrote a novel there defending RSD, and I get it. I do. Lot of projection, so you might take all the questions you fired off and ask them of yourself. C’mon, be honest here. You want to elevate poor intentions and unethical behavior into something better, but you’re only fooling yourself. I don’t have to write 15 paragraphs rebutting what you wrote, because I don’t care enough to write more than this. Shrug. Have a good day.

  48. Oh, I do have one more comment. Question actually.

    Rollo – if YaReally tried to poach your wife, how would you react, and how would you regard him?

  49. @forgetthesky
    “YaReally, your points about how social media has blown women’s options wide open is well-taken”

    I go out in-field regularly and I’m hitting on the <25 crowd (I'm early 30s) so this just comes from observation. These girls show me their texts and tinder conversations and I pick their brain for their perspectives and because I'm non-judgemental about sex they tell me stuff they don't tell anyone else like casual hookups and mistakes or fantasies or previous experiences with relationships etc. and I pick their brains for why they think they do these things or how they felt etc. and they trust me because I don't judge them even if I disagree with them so I'm safe.

    Older guys with experience obviously have wisdom worth listening to, but society is changing and you have to be going out in-field macking these girls to see it and anticipate changes so you can adapt that wisdom (and add new ideas to it based on what you observe first-hand or dismiss old ideas that are no longer relevant) or else you'll always be a few years behind them.

    My fav example of this is txting new girls. Old wisdom was ignore her texts and respond really slow and leave hours or days between responses etc. but that was when txting was new and girls only woke up to 5 texts. Now they wake up to 30 texts 200 Likes 100 Instagram Likes, 500 retweets, orbiters and Facebook messages etc etc etc…if she texts you, RESPOND and capitalize on that and take it as far as you can, cause that's your 5 minute window for the week that she's going to notice your txt if you haven't fucked her yet.

    But guys who don't know what a hot 23yos phone looks like with notifications blinking left and right is going to run the old style and get lost in the herd and think "what a bitch" lol

    No replacement for field experience. Field is king.

    And now it's work time lol this was fun keep up the good work Rollo

  50. From the OP: “While female written romance stories revolve around multiple suitors for a woman protagonist to tame the most Alpha among them – usually ending with the one who’s a misunderstood asshole to everyone but her….”

    I laughed. Then wondered why I never noticed this before. It’s always the biggest asshole, isn’t it? Who ends up being the best guy ‘inside’ after all.

    Thanks for keeping it empirical YaReally. I tend to more myself in theory, so I started hitting the clubs sometimes just to interact and observe.

  51. @steve h

    The answer to all my questions asked to myself is “yes”. I’ve been doing this a long time and I actually go try shit out in-field regularly instead of talking out my ass.

    All you’re doing is playing the “I’m above that boorish behaviour” card the same way a white knight is above that “teasing girls” thing because he doesn’t understand it and he’s determined to stay brainwashed by not trying to understand it. That’s why you wrote a bunch of snark instead of addressing anything I’ve written (there’s plenty of points for you to choose from) so we can discuss it rationally with field experience backing up our points.

    And now you’re trying to appeal to authority by bringing Rollo in thinking he’s going to interpret “someone talking to your girl” in the same insecure cartoon-character stereotype visual that you picture in your head where a snivelling hunched over creeper in a fuzzy hat lurks out of the shadows spouting lines like an insect.

    All that tells me is that 1) you don’t go out enough to have met and befriended cool alpha AMOGs, and 2) you missed the ENTIRE point of Rollos article about how done right this shit doesn’t look like a blatant cartoon stereotype, it just looks like a cool likeable dude being friendly and spreading value.

    Your follow-up has just reinforced exactly why your original point needed to be called out as keyboard jockey theory. Nothing personal, I don’t know or care who you are. All I care about is that what you espouse as truths align with what guys who have massive field experience see and your original post doesn’t. Go out more and bring more solid shit to the table and I’ll be happy to endorse what you write. All I care about is accurate information being taught to men looking for help.

  52. “@ManPersonNumber6762

    February 2nd, 2015 at 6:05 pm
    Jack Donovan’s work (The Way of Men) enlightens one on what an alpha male actually is. Manly behavior does not directly curry favor with women. Healthy men seek approval from other men. This is the way we were designed. Men earn approval within their masculine ingroup by becoming good at useful things, by working hard, and by being loyal. Fucking or even flirting with another man’s wife is, in this context, the opposite of strength or “alpha”. A woman looks to a mans’ associates to see if he has their respect – A woman is attracted to a man that has the respect of other men, a sort of social proof, akin to a man that is associated with other desirable women that desire him (women are attracted to men that other women find attractive).”

    What the fuck do you mean by “healthy man”? Fucking stuuuupid.

    Bullshit.

    Healthy men seek approval from no one.

    Healthy men fuck whatever women they want as pathetic white knight dick suckers whine about it while they spank their monkey because that’s the way pussies are designed.

    Healthy men do not “earn approval”. They grovel to no one and they are respected without having to perform any sissy theatrics to “prove it”.

    All women crave a “healthy” man. A woman looks to her wet pussy to see she respects him, not “his associates”.

  53. @YaReally

    Agreed on all points, sir. Many of the comments after Jeremy and I pretty much agreed that poaching girlfriends/fiancés/wives from random dudes or being poached from random dudes was just part of the game (and indeed a necessity for the reasons you mentioned plus my own) were pretty much labeling guys who acknowledge and work with that reality “shitbags”. Those guys need to sack up and kill the beta, or join the Fat Acceptance movement.

    If a woman is an HB6+ these days her needs for male attention are met before you talk to her. Whether a boyfriend or husband or even facebook orbiters, you MUST destroy the value of that attention in her eyes and make your attention seem more valuable. Period. Get used to being “mean”, or get used to finding the pussy in the fat folds.

  54. “her needs for male attention are met before you talk to her.”

    I disagree. These days, far too many men are providing the kind of attention women really desire. Women are starving for it. It is very easy to sack a pretty attractive girl these days because there are so many self loathing self degrading men wasting their lives begging for approval and acceptance. It is really extremely pathetic what some men will do to try and gain esteem from others. If you take an honest look at yourself and everyone else you will notice this…..those who are always trying to impress themselves the most have the least to do it with.

  55. @forgethesky

    I disagree that the Red Pill is PUA lite. It’s just broader in focus; a lot of guys here don’t want to be PUA’s, so they don’t start from a place of already seeing the whole thing as a big game – as any aspiring pua must….

    That’s all fine. There’s no getting around facts, and the fact is that most guys who read and study red pill truths don’t want to become PUAs.

    There’s a problem though. It comes when you try to consider why so many guys would rather go MGTOW than PUA. Where is the influence that’s causing that decision in such large numbers coming from? I would argue that it comes from a combination of deeply, culturally instilled forms of male honor, many of which the FI arguably put there; Combined with knowing the truth that women just don’t play by that set of books anymore. When you know that your “opponent” in the game isn’t playing by the same rulebook as you, but you still believe that your rulebook is the correct rulebook, you have three options… You can just outright lose the game, or you can abandon your belief in the superiority of your rulebook… or you can try to stop playing the game.

    Deliberately losing is just stupid, and the frivorced men here can certainly attest the the pains of that.

    As it’s been said countless times, you can’t stop playing the game. The idea of removing yourself from the reproductive-optimization conflict when you are biologically part of the species trying to reproduce itself is ludicrous. The only way to do it is to castrate yourself, and that might even be stretching the bounds of belief.

    Since you cannot stop playing the game… and women are not playing by the same rulebook that you’re taught to play by… you have *only* one remaining option, and that is to toss out your rulebook.

    To me, this means that even though red pill men say “I don’t want to be a PUA,”… really they should still have all of the basic techniques and experience that a PUA might have. That does not mean they have to be regularly cold-approaching HB9s in a group and pulling them, but it means they *should* be regarding PUA as a toolset as important as carrying around a wallet and keys.

    I’ve said those same words myself, “But I don’t want to be a PUA,” a number of times to people. I still mean them to a degree. I truly do not want to spend 3-6 nights a week at bars, clubs, parties, maintaining bouncer and bartender friends, losing sleep and spinning many plates as a lifestyle. Frankly in my line of work, and at my level of commitment to it, spending multiple nights out until midnight+ is out of the question. YET, I read all that Rollo, Roosh, and others write and I agree with them. Those toolsets that they discuss are a requirement for men, period. You can’t hold onto past mindsets simply due to your age bracket, religion, or economic situation and rationalize beta behavior now that you’ve taken the red pill. You can’t water-down the truths of what the PUA’s tell you out of a sense of honor. That’s the fastest way to poison your ability to deal with women into something their sexual-duality desires, and not what you need.

    I’m not necessarily saying that everything a PUA tells you is gospel. What I’m saying is that, in this process of digesting the red pill, self-honesty about how much experience you actually give yourself with women versus others in the community who are trying to game them nightly will save you tremendous amounts of indigestion.

    That said, I am no PUA, so feel free to ignore all that I contribute here.

  56. @yareally thanks again as always. You are funny and it’s obvious that people enjoy hanging with you.

    “sorry about my buddy apparently he’s never seen a girl before lol” see I never think of that. You have answers for everything.

  57. @Steve, heheh, if she went off with YaReally, she deserves everything she gets. I’d tell her thanks for revealing her true colors.

    I’d regard him like every other man I know today – I expect them to do their worst, and I expect myself to do the best. If a woman (especially one I’ve been married to for almost 19 years) is that susceptible to that influence, I’m better off for knowing it.

  58. YaReally – you realize that your the prototypical keyboard jockey calling other guys keyboard jockeys? All your assumptions about me (and 447, or whoever else) are projections. We have no way of knowing if half the stuff you’ve written about your own experiences is true, and I doubt it is – but even if I grant you that, you’re investing an incredible amount of time and energy in the scarcity-based poaching game when you could just buy callgirls. Your identity is so wrapped up in circa 2004-era ‘sarging’ though, you can’t accept it. You can’t even see it. If you had financial abundance, then buying (at min.) 8s and 9s would be as easy as ordering a pizza. Take note, Jeremy. Why are you working in that job? Create financial abundance, and these things reveal themselves to be ridiculous wastes of time. Have a wife or girlfriend, or rely on callgirls to get the sex you need when you don’t land a ONS and want sex. Or go make the extra effort to poach, and be ‘that guy’. An alpha never spins his wheels selling himself, that’s just flashy grovelling when you break it down. Anything requiring more time/energy/effort on your part, and you’re controlled by the FI, and you know it.

    Challenge you to answer my question, Rollo.

    “The whore is the john and the john is the whore.” Exactly. You get it.

  59. hehe, i giggle at all you “men” here.

    all this strategy and knowledge is funny. i’ll let you in on a little secret: us girls can’t be bullshitted for too long. what i mean is, even though you may think you’re “winning us over” with your confidence, we already had you picked right from the start. we pick most beta men out of convenience and not out of a real desire. i’ve had guys run their little game on me and while i may give in,i only do so when i knew i could use him for something. like, if i needed a bf for the holidays or to show off to the family for events. i never initiate sex with them because they often times disgust me, i simply lay there, take it, and think about the past hot guys i’ve been with. honestly, that’s the only way i’ll cum.

    some guys may take us out and invest in us, but we’ll drop our panties quickly for a cute guy with decent sociability when we’re out partying. one of my friends goes out to party with us every week and even with a bf, she’ll still have a ons with the hot bouncer or any other cute guy. we get regular guys approaching us all the time but when we’re out, we always ignore them.

    the pussy makes the rules now 😉

  60. I think one of the reasons I have a respect for YaReally (and I think he has for me) is because I was YaReally all through my 20s. I work with guys like him, I see guys like him at every promo, product launch or gaming/cocktail event I front, and I understand the dynamics working under the technique.

    He’s 100% right, and that’s what bothers most guys – they see the effectiveness of what he does and who women reliably respond to it, and it conflicts with the blue pill wish that it didn’t work so predictably.

    My line of work puts me in the same social environments as YaReally about every other week. I’m not sarging the women he does, but I see Game (and a deplorable lack of it) and Red Pill principles repeatedly play out again and again.

    I hold the respect of guys like Nick Krauser, Roosh and YaReally because I’ve done much of the same things, and I’m a keen observer of the behavior and social interaction, but I don’t have the same firsthand infield experience they do now. That said, neither do they have the firsthand experience of having been married for 18 years or that of being a father for 16.

    Guys like Athol Kay and other ‘dating coaches’ don’t don’t even approach the breadth of my past and present experience. That’s just a statement of fact.

  61. @Christie: Okay, I’ll bite…

    “I giggle at all you ‘men’ here.”
    Yet, here you are wasting your high-and-mighty precious time dialoging with us instead of making babies. Go laugh at your barren womb, cause THE WALL will have the last laugh.

  62. Loyalty and respect are NEVER gained by pretending confidence, complaining, demanding and begging. A man who is insecure ALWAYS looses. His insecurity predetermines his fate.

  63. “@christie

    hehe, i giggle at all you “men” here.
    all this strategy and knowledge is funny. i’ll let you in on a little secret: us girls can’t be bullshitted for too long. what i mean is, even though you may think you’re “winning us over” with your confidence, we already had you picked right from the start. we pick most beta men out of convenience and not out of a real desire. i’ve had guys run their little game on me and while i may give in,i only do so when i knew i could use him for something. like, if i needed a bf for the holidays or to show off to the family for events. i never initiate sex with them because they often times disgust me, i simply lay there, take it, and think about the past hot guys i’ve been with. honestly, that’s the only way i’ll cum.
    some guys may take us out and invest in us, but we’ll drop our panties quickly for a cute guy with decent sociability when we’re out partying. one of my friends goes out to party with us every week and even with a bf, she’ll still have a ons with the hot bouncer or any other cute guy. we get regular guys approaching us all the time but when we’re out, we always ignore them.
    the pussy makes the rules now ;)”

    Bend over you little rule maker…..

  64. Steve,

    Honestly, I think you need to relax a bit. Perhaps something YaReally said pushed a button or two, that’s understandable, but what you’re responding with now just doesn’t make sense to me. “Scarcity-based poaching game” doesn’t make any sense to me whatsoever, that’s a contradiction in terms really as I understand them.

    Take note, Jeremy. Why are you working in that job?

    …Because I happen to really enjoy being what I am now. There’s nothing but therapy preventing me from practicing day-game. As I understand things, however, daygame is a lot harder than club/party game and takes longer to pick up plates from it. But like every PUA would say… YMMV.

  65. @Not Born

    These days, far too many men are not providing the kind of attention women really desire. Women are starving for it.

    When you’ve got 6s putting up the bitch shields of 9s, they believe their needs are filled. If they believe their needs are filled, that’s enough that you have to be ready to destroy what she believes fills her needs. Destroying that attention’s value in her eyes is showing her she’s not got the kind of attention she really wants: yours. It’s like any sales pitch. You create the need, then show her you fill the need.

    You’re essentially saying what I’m saying.

    @christie

    Oh look. A troll. Don’t feed the troll, kids.

  66. @Rollo Tomassi

    …and it conflicts with the blue pill wish that it didn’t work so predictably.

    Hah, I dunno about that. If it worked so predictably I think they’d jump on it. I think the chafing is over what the blue pill told them women should be. The chafing is over the fact that above-board nice-guy-equalism doesn’t work in the PUA sphere. I think it’s entirely over having not fully digested the truths contained herein.

  67. @Sun Wukong

    It’s like any sales pitch. You create the need, then show her you fill the need.

    Sell me this pen.

  68. Rollo,

    What if you rushed and published book 2 on Valentines day?

    May I also suggest keeping the pics in the book

  69. Maestro, you know your English is fine. Don’t apologise to us Brits about it. After all, it (English) is just a kind of organically made-up trade language, a bit like Swahili. It helped to stop all the island-monkeys cutting each others’ throats, which tended to happen when they stuck to their own languages (at least six, and some very unintelligible).

    Seriously, we don’t care what people do to it. We’re not the bloody French.

  70. Allen

    February 2nd, 2015 at 6:53 pm

    “Then there is Marty McFly’s way of disposing cock blockers: “Biff, get your damn hands off of her! (Marty successfully delivers a right hook to Biff’s left eye and Biff falls to the ground.)

    “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.” – Mike Tyson”

    It is clear why Allen was incapable of grasping the subtlety I was exploring a couple posts back.

    He is also an excellent example of one who displays obvious weaknesses that a man with more intelligence and impulse control can exploit in the long run.

  71. @rollo:

    hehehe, you think you have girls figured out but we will always see through anything men give us. we only let things happen because we want them too. most of us don’t care about any particular guy seeing as how we can get any we choose. this is why it’s easy for us to dump guys. it doesn’t work out? oh well, i’ll just text mike and see what he’s doing 🙂

    a lot of guys think they’ve won us over or think that women get more attached than men, but they forget that most girls have more options than they can handle. the only downside here is all the stares we get from creepy men everywhere. like, ugh…could you not? it creeps me out and if i could, i would get rid of the majority of them.

    i mean, we still need some to pay for us and our mistakes. most are so pathetic, they can’t help but become our little puppets hehe 😉

  72. @Jeremy

    Actually, amusing anecdote: the first (and only) job I ever did sales in, they told me to sell them a pen and showed me the wrong way as the right way. Yes, by carefully describing the features of it and why they’re so great. No attempt to create need at all.

    There’s a fucking blue pill even in sales.

  73. How long did you stay at that job Sun? Sounds like amateurs. Note that I’m not claiming I would have been able to recognize such naivete when I was young either.

    Gotta create need and demonstrate value offered. Thankfully women create their own need, otherwise humanity might have died out from reproduction just being too damn hard.

  74. My fondest wish would be to keep the pics in, but 1.) I’d have a lot of people to pay for user rights, and 2.) I can’t really make it affordable to make them in color which I’d really want to.

    Trust me, I’m a designer & artist before I’m anything and I put as much time into photo selection for my blog images as I do for my work projects.

  75. christie

    February 3rd, 2015 at 6:19 pm

    Let’s see, pre-epiphany hamster aerobics.

    The irony here is that she is demonstrating just how well we have girls figured out.

  76. @Jeremy

    Haha, it was a Best Buy. I was like.. 21 or 22 I think. I had no clue how wrong they were at the time, just wound up thinking sales was really hard or something. I quit after like 4 or 5 months after a pretty huge argument with a bitchy male manager that had it in for me and a buddy of mine that I met working there. Buddy quit with me. He became one of the best salesmen I’ve ever met, and is still a good friend of mine to this day.

  77. @Sun Wukong

    Yea we are saying the same thing…but I want to add something.

    “When you’ve got 6s putting up the bitch shields of 9s, they believe their needs are filled……..”

    Their real needs (desires) are never filled because there are too few men willing to fill those real needs (desires). The 6s believe (and they are usually correct) they can get away with bitch shield 9 behavior because so many men will succumb today. They are getting away with acting like they are more valuable than they actually are because men tolerate it. Too many men are letting women walk all over them. Women are just playing the game to their best optimal advantage, using the best opportunities available. There is nothing wrong with this. We all naturally do this.

    Here’s how bad things are. An 8 guy who thinks he has to settle for a 6 girl to feel secure is conceding to the whole FI thing. This is because the guy devalues himself and is insecure in general. If he is an 8 settling for a 6, then he is litterally lowering himself to the level of 6. He lacks confidence in his 8 ism and this devalues him to the level of 6. He litterally transforms himself and defines himself as a 6 by doing this. If you roll in shit, you will look like shit and you will smell like shit. He is reinforcing his insecurity, limiting his potential and succumbing to a fear of girls higher than 6. He is stifelling himself and missing opportunities. He short changes and cheats himself before he even makes a play. He should be increasing his caliber instead of lowering his sights. Consider how you compare yourself and others to potential mates. Everyone does this, especially when we are in the prime of it. Everything is on a relative scale. You can go up or down the scale….and the direction is your choice entirely.

    If things were balanced instead of bassakwards like they are right now, girls who are 6s would not get away with bitch shield 9 behavior. They would look silly like they actually are. Instead, to most men, they seem intimidating. We see extremes of this dynamic with fat ass slob females being promoted on TV and in Hollywood. The fat ass slob female is being promoted as “big and beautiful”. This is becoming more and more disgusting and common. How much of this imbecilic shit will we accept and go along with? Who likes this crap?

    What we see commonplace is what the average general population accepts. Women are getting away with what most men accept.

  78. So Christie…

    If all you say is true and what you are attempting to project about yourself is true….then why are you participating on this blog…..what are you hoping to find or gain here?

    If you really believe all you say about this and you are really what you claim to be, you would not be here. It would be of no interest to you.

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